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104. 'Creep' - Radiohead (1992)
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When “Creep” hit the airwaves in the early '90s, it both launched and haunted Radiohead. What began as a raw, angsty ballad about alienation and obsession became a global anthem for outsiders, misfits, and anyone who ever felt like they didn’t belong. But behind the success lies a story of surprise, sabotage and a band that despised the song that made them famous. From its iconic guitar crunch, to legal battles over chord similarities, “Creep” is one of the most unlikely alt-rock hits of all time. In this episode, we unpack the controversy, emotion, and legacy of a song Radiohead would rather forget, but the world refuses to let go of.
Episode Playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/24zfCwIAupPJS9JS3P5JQT?si=aafe907425924327
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
It was the song that made Radiohead famous and the one they grew to hate. Creep was raw, emotional and almost never released. But once the world heard it, there was no turning back. Hello and welcome back to the Long Live Rock and Roll podcast with your host Mr. Laz Michaelides and on the screen opposite me Mr. Felipe Ameren. How you doing bro?
00:00:19
Speaker
Doing great man and you? Yep yep all good thanks, all good. How are things in London? All good? You know, it's not the best weather, but getting there. up and down, yeah, up and down. Well, for i mean, it was because we saw each other a few weeks ago, didn't we?
00:00:32
Speaker
And funnily enough, the song we're talking about to today factors into one of the places I took you to visit. So yes, today we are talking about the famous Creep song. So we'll just ah start with a few short details of the song.
00:00:44
Speaker
So the song was released the 21st of September 1992, recorded the same year at the Chipping Norton Studios in Oxfordshire, England, which is where I took you and your wife there a week ago, a few weeks ago.
00:00:55
Speaker
ah The genre is alt-rock and it clocks in at just under four minutes long, released on the Parlophone and Capitol label. And it was, well, written and composed by Radiohead, Albert Hammond and Mike Hazelwood, as of now, which we'll get to in bit. Not originally, apparently. Yeah, exactly. Lyrics were written by Tom York and produced by Sean Slade and Paul Caldery.
00:01:17
Speaker
So... I think the first thing to comem acknowledge with this with this song is how lucky we are to have it because we really couldn't have It was an accidental hit, wasn't it?
00:01:29
Speaker
Yeah. they did they they didn't They didn't like the song at first and the label didn't like it. It's it's a weird thing. i Because I think Radiohead started in 1985, right? and Yeah.
00:01:41
Speaker
And they went to college and the band split up and they got together. So they're really young. And they put the first EP out. ah that They had another name. I think the name of the band was Owner Friday.
00:01:52
Speaker
Yeah, it's a weird name. Which was the day they used to rehearse. And the label said, I said, that's a crap name. We've got to change that. They picked the song name by the Talking Heads, isn't and And they used Raiderhead as the name of the the band. So they didn't, I think they didn't even like their own name at that point. yeah And then they put the EP out and the the choice for single, i think, was Creep. I mean, it didn't quite make it. And the label didn't like it.
00:02:20
Speaker
They didn't like it. The audience didn't like it in the UK at first. Well, yeah, I heard this song came about because they were playing it. They were in a studio session ready to to record and they played it as a warm up song and they don't even like it. But I mean, you said the label didn't like it. I read that the label are the ones that heard it.
00:02:39
Speaker
i mean, again, maybe they didn't like it or maybe it wasn't the label. Maybe I've misread. But someone in that session heard it. and said, you guys have got to run with this because this is a good song. And that's what they did. As you said, you know, sort of they recorded the song. um Everyone was sort keen to put it out in terms of it being the main single.
00:02:56
Speaker
And yeah, it completely flopped in the UK when it on its release. So the next question is, how did it get so famous? Well, American radio stations, American college radio stations all across the country gave it such a heavy rotation.
00:03:10
Speaker
And I think I think I can understand why, which is where we're going to move to in the next part of the show. um So this this this song. It kind of has a few different influences, doesn't it? We kind of sits in the nice old rock thing, but I hear out and out grunge in it, man.
00:03:28
Speaker
And that's why I think it was a success in the USA, because look what was going on there at the same time. You've got Pearl Jam and Nirvana and Soundgarden, you know, the first the first ah the first wave of grunge had been completed from 91 all the way through to 93. And these bands were now surging. And I think you listen to Creep and I think you hear a proper grungy song and add to that the lyrics of the song and how kind of, you know, it really did speak the same language as grunge. It had disaffection, self-loathing, the social anxiety,
00:03:58
Speaker
And I feel like this was kind of the UK's old little grunge anthem. Makes sense. It makes sense. Because they're not like, again, they would be heavily associated with Brit pop. Right. But like, they're so far from a traditional pop, you know, sound.
00:04:15
Speaker
Because they're very experimental. There's lots of noises in the songs. And... They're not so radio friendly, you know, in a way. So it's it's it's weird to call them a pop band or to associate them with Britpop in a way.
00:04:29
Speaker
So, yeah, I never thought of it, but they're closer to grunge than they are to to pop music. And yeah, ah I can roll with that. I think that's that makes a lot of sense. As a band, I mean, I'm quite a big fan of Radiohead. now we are We are scheduled to do one of their albums in the next couple of months.
00:04:47
Speaker
um they're they're very unusual and Britpop label that is slapped on them, I really think it only sort of suits them for their second album, which might be the one that we do in a few weeks, in a few months called The Benz.
00:04:59
Speaker
And that really does exude a bit of Britpop. But as you said, everything after that is so far away from what we know of Britpop, including Blur, Oasis, you know, those kinds of bands.
00:05:12
Speaker
And I just... You know, we're going to talk about how much they hated the song later, but I think it's just interesting. i was reading that the band didn't expect Creep to define them. They didn't want it to define them either. And the more i listen, the more I listen to other music that they've released, the more I wonder if they've just been like, right, how can we distance ourselves from Creep even more? Because each album has a different sort of sound and a different one that sort that, that,
00:05:40
Speaker
it moves further away. They really play with electronics, with ambiences, with production, with um atmosphere and mood. And they still, I think it's fair to call them a rock band, even though they are so heavily produced. there's loads of electronic stuff. but yeah would you remember i remember listening to the album OK Computer when came about.
00:05:57
Speaker
yeah that's the famous thing. It's got nothing to do with this song, isn't it? Yeah, I get it that they try to distance themselves from the song, but i it's it's it's a curse and a blessing at the same time. What i sometimes don't get about artists is like, you you have a song that made you a millionaire.
00:06:16
Speaker
yeah Could you just show a little bit of affection for that song? Affection for the song. Appreciation for the the public. But it's interesting. No, I get it. i i found an interview with them um that when the interviewer asked about, you know what's the meaning of of Creep? What's the song about?
00:06:32
Speaker
Yeah. and And he just, ah think I think there was an MTV one or one of those back in the day. And Tom York is just like, Creep is about... Yeah, and it doesn't say anything else. And it just said, that's it. That's the end of the inter interview interview. It's like, he doesn't want to talk about it. it doesn't doesn't It doesn't answer the question. And and they just they just stop the tape. That's it.
00:06:56
Speaker
That's the end of it. at The end of the interview, because he didn't want to talk about it. And to be fair, bit of a silly question. What's this song about? So explicit in the lyrics.
00:07:07
Speaker
It's all there. You know, we we sometimes talk about interpreting songs. And when we talked about John Harrison, i said, like how... how um Obvious, the lyrics are how like like straight to the point, right? And this is the same for me. That that song that song needs no interpretation.
00:07:25
Speaker
it says what In terms of lyrics, it is what it is. It's there. And I think, um especially in your teenage years, everyone has felt like that at some point their lives. so So, yeah, it's a...
00:07:38
Speaker
The way they perform the song live, you check any live version of the song, especially when it was released, they already disliked it and they had to perform it live on every TV show.
00:07:49
Speaker
They make such a theatrical performance of it. And it's actually beautiful. It's like, because it... it brings that feeling of of being disliked or not liking yourself think about it the lyrics about like i don't like myself i don't feel confident about the person i am and it's like i don't like this song and i have to sing it in front of everyone like yeah they're clearly uncomfortable with it and they make a whole theater out of it yeah and i love it i think it's it's it's it's simply brilliant yeah Well, talking about what they can do to, again, we're going to wrap up at the end with a bit of a section on their resentment for it and why that might have come about.
00:08:28
Speaker
But in terms of what they did at the time to show their hatred for it, we're going to talk about the music and that iconic guitar slash where you had Johnny Greenwood who wanted to intentionally sabotage the song by putting that famous over it.
00:08:43
Speaker
He said he thought the song was far too soft, too nice, ah you know too whatever. So he wanted to ruin it. um And he turned, I think it's quite significant here because he turned what could have been just an out and out, sad, ballady, low energy song into something that with two strums of a guitar turns it way more aggressive way more brick poppy, way more punky.
00:09:10
Speaker
It just gives it that overdrive guitar sound. And it just it changes the song completely, don't think? Yeah, it does. It does. And it's it's the preparation for for the chorus. We talk a lot about um light and shade in music.
00:09:24
Speaker
And in this song, it's all so soft. And it doesn't gradually build up to the chorus. It explodes into the chorus. on that guitar And that guitar noise, you know as Alan Partridge would say, that's just noise. so that it's not really that's not really a chord. That noise it makes on the guitar before the chorus is the only bit of preparation to the loudness of the chorus so everything else is just like soft all the way and as i said explodes into the chorus really heavy and then it goes down immediately as well yeah and that's when the drummer does the single thing like just like creating uh like an ambience for for the next part of of the vocals like it's it's the way they play with dynamics is actually
00:10:10
Speaker
um the contrast is shocking, really. yeah if I was listening to it on headphones. I had to bring the volume down for the chorus. I feel old now. It's too loud or too old, as they say. Turn it down. Oh, my God, that's too loud. Because I was listening to the details of the verse. So I put the volume volume up yeah to to hear the details of the bass and drums. I'm like, when it goes into the chorus, it's too much.
00:10:34
Speaker
And then i think... um The same kind of happens and in the bridge after. they You can't predict that bridge. But anyway, talking about that that that guitar part, I think it does show how much the guy does liked. I'm going to put a noise here. I'm going to completely destroy the arrangement.
00:10:54
Speaker
But actually, he made it. Made it better. Yeah. And again, as we know, that's the song that would go on to sort of them yeah to create their career and shape it. um You wanted to talk about a bit about the structure and the members, right?
00:11:06
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I think so it's ah ah ah the the role that each musician plays in that song. It's is' it's quite interesting. um Well, we but later on we're going to talk about where the song came from, is and in terms of chords. But like when you listen to the to the verse, especially...
00:11:22
Speaker
um The rhythm guitar plus bass and drums, they do the most obvious, predictable thing, just playing a really straightforward beat. Yeah, isn't it That's the foundation, because we're talking about, oh the song is a bit weird. this that Well, not entirely.
00:11:39
Speaker
You have that, like... That foundation with a really, how can I put it? like That's a standard way of playing pop music. You're just strumming the guitar, solid rhythm, nothing changes for the whole verse. yeah And bass and drums, they do that job all the way to the end. When the guitar parts are still a bit weird, the vocals are like screaming and all that stuff.
00:12:01
Speaker
Bass and drums is just a straightforward groove. There's one drum fill halfway through that bridge. And this it sounds like ah John Bonham was like a triplet fill. Really sounds faster than the song because there's more more notes per beat than you would expect. yeah But it's a really short drum fill and is back to the groove.
00:12:19
Speaker
And that's how it goes. And the bass, there's nothing. How can i put it? It's nothing too clever about the bass, isn't it? Not at all. Following the drum pattern, that's it. that's it That's it. But I just think that's such a solid foundation for the song.
00:12:32
Speaker
um And it's almost crazy because it doesn't ever really leave that rhythm. it just creates this almost psychedelic ambience around it, especially with that guitar being picked in the background. band but And then the effects they put on it.
00:12:47
Speaker
Radiohead are a band that have always given so much time and attention to the sound. I remember, you know, my music teacher, when I was in studying GCSE and A level at school, my music teacher was obsessed with them and he loved them. And I imagine he still does. And he was always just showing me these little intricacies of this songs. And I kind of listened to a song like, I don't know, they got a song called, I'm going to take a pause for this to just quickly explain to listeners and viewers our usual thing where if you go down in the show notes or the YouTube description, you will see a playlist dedicated to this episode.
00:13:22
Speaker
where we put every song that we've mentioned, if we're doing an album, all the songs from the album will be in there. Or if we're doing a song, the song will be in there. Plus anything else we mentioned throughout the episode, including covers, like I'm doing now, little examples. So make sure you check that out um to stay, ah to to listen along with us.
00:13:39
Speaker
um And he played this song called Everything In Its Right Place by Radiohead, which is a stunning song. So soft, so haunting. And I just remember thinking, this is just a keyboard and a vocal.
00:13:51
Speaker
ah But he talked me through it. He was explaining the chords to me and how they worked. He was saying to me, you know, listen to the production here. Listen to what they've done there. Listen to the resolution from this chord to this chord. And it just completely changed my view on music. So actually, I really need to give Radiohead a bit of credit in terms of how significantly they impacted my musical life, because I was listening to what I thought was pop music.
00:14:14
Speaker
But actually, i don't i think i don't think they belong here I don't think they do. Sorry, I saw that. i began take Yeah, pun completely intended. um I heard them and i once I understood, i think, sorry, guys, you don't belong with Oasis and Blur.
00:14:34
Speaker
You belong higher. And again, i'm not in I'm not in the mood to have a debate with anyone and say, oh, this band's better. this It's all down to personal opinion. But in terms of the level of detail and musicality within their music,
00:14:47
Speaker
Sure, can Oasis write a better pop song? Yeah, fine, I'll give him that. in terms of musicality, performance, production, Radiohead are on another level, man. And to hear even the simplest, their first ever song, I think the attention to detail is still on there as well.
00:15:03
Speaker
ah run All right. So when you think about it, isn't it that, so maybe Creep was definitely what shaped their career in a way. Because the fact they try to distance themselves from the song probably made them even more aware of details and how they could yeah again be more creative. Well, how could they do something completely different?
00:15:25
Speaker
And I think, as I said to you, because you have that, um, foundation of bass and drums, just just keeping the beat as it should be, which for me relates to rock and roll, actual like early rock and roll.
00:15:38
Speaker
Because when you listen to um Fat Domino or or Little Richard or or Chuck Berry or Elvis, bass and drums are not there to shine. No, they're not there to be clever. yeah And it's all about the guitar player and the singer.
00:15:52
Speaker
So what happens with or the piano player in some cases in early rock and roll. So what what happens with this song is that like because it's there's one element of the song that is not crazy at all.
00:16:05
Speaker
It's not like weird. So the other guys can be as weird as they want. Yeah, yeah. exactly But then and you know, that's right um yeah that's the foundation for basic drums. And we did it the last song episode we did, um Whole Lotta Love, which actually doesn't really apply to this. But on that album, on Led Zeppelin II, you've got a song like The Lemon Song, where you have John Paul Jones and John Bonham holding down that groove. Yes, John Paul Jones kind of goes off a bit, does a bit of a solo thing, but then that gives Jimmy Page and Robert Plant the space to do their weirdness stuff. So you're right. And once they establish a foundation in this song, as you said, you have the space for Tom York's vocals to sort soar. You know, there there's a joke about Tom York and his, um about some of his, so so the way he sings, there's ah there's a song on OK Computer, which is actually one of my favorite songs of all time called No Surprises.
00:16:52
Speaker
And it's so funny that the characteristic of Tom York's voice is the slurring of the words. How sometimes you know people joke about Tom York, you know, shows because he just slurs words kind of together. He doesn't establish them, but that's his method.
00:17:09
Speaker
And I think if the if the drums and the bass were going to be extravagant and busy and playing much busier rhythms, Tom York doesn't have the freedom to do that. Ed O'Brien, does or was it Johnny Greenwood, doesn't have the the freedom to do that guitar slash.
00:17:23
Speaker
It's because the bass the drums have that established rhythm that it creates space for the rest of the band to to do their thing. Yeah, exactly. And I think it's interesting that you touched the the vocal performance there. Yeah, it's almost like he's drunk or he's just not in the mood to sing. it ah i don't want to sing.
00:17:40
Speaker
And when when I first heard the song during the verse, was like, gosh, this guy can't sing. Famous last words, right? Because when when he hits the bridge, and he shouts and like that's that's such a hard vocal to replicate live for any singer it's not an easy one it's it's like i don't know about his vocal technique but it sounds technically good enough to me yeah well yeah so yeah yeah it's it's not an easy one it's not it's a really high note and long and consistent so the thing is and he does it live
00:18:13
Speaker
but There's some really cool live versions of this song where he performs with the same quality as the studio. and when i When I heard that, so, wow, he can sing like that. Why why is he not singing with that beautiful voice during the verse?
00:18:28
Speaker
But that's the whole point, because it wouldn't match the feeling of the lyrics. Yeah. Right? So this this guy feeling like he he is he's not happy about himself. He doesn't like the person he is. He doesn't feel confident to talk to a woman he likes.
00:18:42
Speaker
And it's just... he's just he's a creep yeah it feels like a creep it needs to sing like a creep yeah and it's funny because i think every every person has felt like that at some point in their lives i don't think any anyone i know always uh felt entirely self-confident or or is special you know and and it's you know not for your whole life but there's there's always a point where you think like you don't belong and you're not as good as everyone else.
00:19:11
Speaker
And I think it's it's interesting that they put that in the lyrics. um and but Without, how can I put it? like Without analogies or or anything, it's just it is what it is. It says exactly as it is. so Yeah, and on top of that, as I said at the start, kind of, it's so its so much more associates itself towards grunge than it does Britpop.
00:19:37
Speaker
Because, you know, we talked we've done a few Britpop episodes now where we we identified that Britpop was, the UK was happy again, you know, like the Thatcher era had ended, the the economy was booming and it was like, you let's celebrate being British.
00:19:52
Speaker
But radio Radiohead- They were not celebrating anything, were they? No, not at all. And I know Britpop hadn't even reached its reached its own heights back then. and but But even so, looking at their subsequent albums, Radiohead, Benz is slightly more Britpop-y, but there's still so much- introspection in those albums which is why I'm always hastened to anyone anyone says to me who's your favourite Britpop band, Blur Oasis, I say Radiohead because because that's that's how they're categorised but despite my despite me trying to be clever with that answer I don't think they're a Britpop band because I don't feel they've ever slotted into that that maybe the Benz, maybe that one album but
00:20:36
Speaker
You know, i don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I agree with you. They have a sound of their own. and Completely. There's one thing specifically about Creep, which I think it's brilliant, because I was talking to... I was playing a gig the other day, and this guy came to talk to the guitar player about...
00:20:55
Speaker
So basically our guitar player got really angry because we had some music to be played during the break. So we put it through the speakers, like some country music, blues. And this guy put some money into the jukebox and started playing some Radiohead.
00:21:10
Speaker
And the player hated it. said, mate, we're trying to play some music here on the break that kind of suits the kind of gig we play. I was like, you played fucking Radiohead. And this guy said, don't you like Raiderhead? And they started this argument, bit like, not in a friendly way. And he was joking with the guy, no, this is really crap.
00:21:28
Speaker
It's impossible that you like this. they dog They're going on and the guy said, I love them, they're great. so i then Then out of the blue, the guy says, come on, Creep is a great song. And then my friend was like, yeah, that's a great song. There you go. There you go. So they're judged entirely on that song. I mean,
00:21:46
Speaker
I wish I liked Radiohead more than I do. And that's saying something because I have such profound respect for them. I love, I love that I spoke about this already 10 minutes ago I love their attention to detail, how they view music.
00:22:00
Speaker
You know, some people, including myself, I'm a little, I'm a little of adverse to relying on electronics electronic sounds, sample sounds, production methods to make music. I prefer my music made with instruments, but Radiohead just have this way of using those instruments um in this repetitive, minimalistic way to produce great results that stem backed up by electronic sounds, ambient atmosphere. There's one song I put in the playlist. It's called Morning Mr. Magpie.
00:22:37
Speaker
um Go, you know, if if you're interested in listening to Radiohead, go and check that song out. I think this song kind of epitomises them and all that's good about them. Anyway, yeah, back to the discussion. um Yeah, Creep has has defined this band, um but it has not come with any con without controversy because in ah listeners noticed similarities to the song The Air That I Breathe by The Hollies.
00:23:03
Speaker
um And what happened is Hammond and Hazelwood from the Hollies sued them for copyright infringement. Now, Radiohead didn't fight it. They settled straight away. And then from then, both writers have been given official songwriting credits on the song, which is why we had that little laugh at the start.
00:23:20
Speaker
Yeah. What do you think with regards to the plagiarism and the lawsuit? That is an interesting one. Normally, um ah plagiarism accusation has come out of lyrics and melodies. maybe a riff think about that so we discussed a whole lot of love the other day that's so obvious the lyrics are there and you know and the melody at some point so um that's more kind of a That would be harder to to fight if you say that, you know, if you copied someone's lyrics and melody, that's clear plagiarism.
00:23:54
Speaker
yeah So that's what the song technically is like legally. You know, in most countries, I think ah you can only sue. um I might be wrong about this, but don't quote me on this. But I think you can only sue someone by for plagiarism.
00:24:08
Speaker
if it's about lyrics and melodies. So the instruments, the instrumental parts, they have to be really, really, really close to the original for you to actually sue someone. yeah And this is a case that you can clearly tell the acoustic guitar, the bass and the drums at the beginning are playing the exact same beat.
00:24:28
Speaker
Chord progressions, we must say, you can't accuse someone of plagiarism for chord progressions because the chord progressions have been used in a million different songs since the beginning of times. Like you have the... this Since the beginning of times was a bit too much, isn't it? Since the beginnings of popular music, like ah the the three chords in blues music, the 2-5-1 progression in jazz music.
00:24:51
Speaker
And you have all those things that have been used. They are kind of a commonplace. They're part of the genre. And um ah you can find on YouTube loads of people are doing jokes about like four chords and you can sing like hundreds of songs on top of those four chords. So yeah this the chord progression is not the main reason for that.
00:25:12
Speaker
I believe is the combination of that chord progression with the guitar, with the bass, with the drum beat. It's like there's no way they were not listening to that song and playing on top of it.
00:25:24
Speaker
And you know what people do. let's they They start jamming to someone else's music and say, oh, let's create something on top of this. yeah But then sometimes you fail to differentiate in the end, like...
00:25:35
Speaker
ah at the end of your recording process, you should find a way to distance yourself from from the original track. You can copy someone's chord progression and the overall vibe of the song, and then you change the arrangements in a way that it doesn't sound like you're... So actually, it sounds like that was an inspiration, not a copy.
00:25:55
Speaker
yeah I believe the way they've done, specifically the thing we said that gives the foundation to the song, which which is the groove, the the rhythm, guitar, bass, and drums, For me, that's a copy. For me, it's very clear. What do you think? Yeah, no, I mean, I agree. I think this is a hard one because I'm of the opinion that they have made the song sound different enough because so yeah I love both songs, but I hear them.
00:26:20
Speaker
And I don't hear any similarities. and Sorry, let me start again. Let me say that again. I hear the similarities, but as you said, for me, the difference, okay, they've written the song, they've got their' chosen their chord progression, but all the extra stuff they've put on for me makes a completely different song.
00:26:37
Speaker
So it's hard. You know, I'm reading here that there's a particular progression. So for you for the music nerds out there, a one to three to four to six chord progression. Yeah, that's not very common, is a it? no it's not. Usually you use one, four, five, maybe six in there, maybe a four, but a one, three, four, six, that's not a standard chord progression you hear.
00:26:58
Speaker
um But then also I've heard, I've read that the bridge incorporates a melody very similar to the Air That I Breathe song. So I mean, you know, I think it says something, but Radiohead didn't fight it.
00:27:10
Speaker
He wasn't happy or they weren't happy. Tom York said afterwards, you know, and ah they when he asked about the song Creep and the writing credits, he said, well, it's not ours anymore. It belongs to someone else.
00:27:22
Speaker
And it's hard, man, because, you know, where do you draw the line? You know, we say this before in terms of, you know, Can a chord progression be taken? Well, we have the four chords song. um Yeah, I think in the UK, as far as I'm concerned, the law is if you copy a part of the song, they're so essential to the song and so recognizable than it is.
00:27:42
Speaker
But that's subjective, isn't it? Exactly. that is the point The point with plagiarism is like, i think lyrics and melodies, because they can be written down on on a piece of paper. You can transcribe a melody using music notation.
00:27:56
Speaker
And if it's the same, it's the same. You can't deny that. and But the same for how long as well, right? Is it like one bar, two bars of the song? Yeah. Or is it like a whole chorus?
00:28:07
Speaker
So I find so the the legal side of of plagiarism, It's so debatable in many ways and so difficult. I don't have an opinion about this, I'll be honest with you.
00:28:18
Speaker
I'm just like sharing what i what I think about it, but it's not like a strong opinion. It's what I think. Well, this, they should definitely be sued. or They should definitely share this exact percentage of the songwriting with the original writers. yeah i don't know I don't know. So how do you measure that? How much of the song is a copy and how much money should go to the original writers?
00:28:41
Speaker
it' is It's tricky, isn't it? Also, you do those things, like musicians do that because they you know they see everyone doing it all the time. And you go back to, again, rock and roll, the early rock and roll stuff.
00:28:53
Speaker
If people were suing each other for plagiarism, um everyone would be like ah credited in everyone else's music. Yeah, exactly. You said the same with Whole Lotta Love with classical music as well. yeah you know yeah Anyway, um moving on from that, Lana Del Rey.
00:29:10
Speaker
wrote a song called Get Free that Radiohead's... don't know that. No, so it's in the playlist. Radiohead's publisher took legal action against Lana Del Rey for the same thing, for copying chord progression of Creep, which is ironic because it's kind coming from the circle. You know, from the Hollies to Radiohead, back around to Lana Del Rey.
00:29:30
Speaker
um Radiohead... The Hollies are not making making ah money out of two songs apart from the original. Well... Are they not? No, no, no, no. Just Creep, I imagine. No, but not the Leonard DeRay song. because if if Let me see. I don't believe... That would be an interesting one. See, that's what I'm saying. So confusing. Oh, that's a great point. Yeah, because if their publishing company is suing them for copying Creep, but Creep already has the credit, is already credited to the Hollies. So...
00:30:02
Speaker
how how does that How does that work? They probably make money out of that as well. That's interesting. I'd love to look into that. Yeah, so Radiohead didn't sue her. It was EMI. yeah But, you know, EMI are like, well, hold on, you know, if this is our song, you know. I mean, that's funny. and And yeah, like I said, Radiohead denied involvement in that.
00:30:20
Speaker
um So my opinion, which is where I want to go into the next section of the episode, is that I want to ask... Why do Radiohead hate this song? And I think we've got a few answers in the start of the episode. But my my thinking is, I just look at all this stuff, right? um after After Pablo Honey was released, all and Creep became famous, all of their gigs, you had fans begging them, begging them to play Creep.
00:30:49
Speaker
And there's one gig where Tom York shouted, fuck off, we're not a jukebox, when they was asked to play Creep. And then, you know, by the time they got around to OK Computer, they actually flout refused to play the song. They didn't want to play it.
00:31:02
Speaker
um You know, the media were calling Radiohead of the Creep band. um And Tom York saw the song as this shallow, overly emotional song that was really unrepresentative of the direction that the band wanted to pursue.
00:31:15
Speaker
And that goes back to what I was saying a few minutes ago about how each time I hear a new Radiohead album, it gets further and further away from Creep. It gets so much so that Tom York has called the song a ghost, always present, always watching.
00:31:29
Speaker
And I just find it interesting that, you know, and listen, they did bring it back in the 2000s. They started bringing it back occasionally to this set. But look at everything that happened. They didn't want to record the song.
00:31:40
Speaker
It was used as a studio warmup. They were then judged completely on that song. Yes, it brought them success and fame, but they were judged on it. They were labeled as the creep band because of that.
00:31:52
Speaker
And then it goes on and on and on and that they they but that's not the direction they want to go on. they Their whole image and identity is based around the song. And then to make matters worse, they get sued by a band for for using the same chord progressions and a similar melody. And I'm sat there here thinking, no wonder they bloody hate this song. Because it's like, it's just, yes, it's brought them fame, success and and an image, but I don't know, man. I kind of understand it. you know i i get I get it. it's I just find all of that funny in a way. like it's his it's
00:32:26
Speaker
Yeah, you can't get away from something you've written, recorded, released and promoted. Their name's on it. You're right. They took responsibility for releasing it. Your name is on it and ah it's it's it's your art.
00:32:40
Speaker
And when people, when artists normally say, I'm not having a go at them at all because I think that's totally valid. If you're if you're capable of having a following like they have, recording loads of different albums with different influences and sounds and being capable of doing a gig, refusing to play that song and still having people coming and buying tickets to see you, knowing that you're not going to play that song.
00:33:06
Speaker
That means a lot. That means they actually they actually ah managed to outgrow the song. And I think they did. So that's the thing. yeah I respect them for that. I'm not having a go at them at all. What I'm saying is...
00:33:17
Speaker
um You also can't deny that a song that you've written represents you. Oh, that doesn't represent me anymore. It represents that part, that time of your life, yeah that time of your, that moment ah in your artistic um a life that you came up with, with some sort of lyrics and melodies to reflect your feelings. So that is you.
00:33:40
Speaker
You can't just deny that. Also, ah in a way, I'll be honest with you, I saw the Rolling Stones, um live playing for 2 million people in 2006 back in Brazil in Copacabana Beach.
00:33:54
Speaker
They started with Jumping Jack Flash. If I'm not wrong, they closed with Satisfaction. They were like, you know what we're going to play the hits. They played some of this stuff in the middle. No one knew. They played out the stuff they liked. They wanted to play.
00:34:06
Speaker
But it's a sign of respect ah depending on what sort of gig you're playing. There's a lot of people there that... They're there to have fun or it's a festival whatever. they If there's more than one band playing like a festival, ah they might know a few songs yeah per band and they want to sing along with the songs they know.
00:34:26
Speaker
ah I don't think any artist owes anything to the audience at all. should do As an artist, you should do whatever you do, whatever you want to do. And if people don't want to buy it, that's on you as well.
00:34:38
Speaker
They don't like it, you know, so you can run the risk. I think they are in a position they can just say, I don't want to play But I kind of appreciate that at some point they brought the song back into the set list because I think, you know, people like the song. So why not playing for them?
00:34:51
Speaker
and Why not like sacrificing four minutes of your two hour performance to give people something that they like? Doesn't have to be done. I say, why not doing it? It's funny, isn't it? This whole song, this whole episode has been a bunch of, I can see this side, but i also see this side. yeah We did it with the plagiarism. We're now doing it with, well, should they play it Should they not?
00:35:11
Speaker
And I just like, you know, and this goes towards my respect to rate for my my this goes towards my respect for Radiohead, that they are so sure in themselves that they are just flout saying, this is not us anymore, so I'm not going to play this song.
00:35:26
Speaker
And as you said, the fans have understood The fans understand my friend you my friend, my old music teacher, he's seen them several times. And I asked him, you know, when when I was, cause you know, I like a lot of their stuff. they're fur The Benz and OK Compute I really enjoy. And the albums afterwards, like I said, I wish I could like it more, but there's there's there's moments.
00:35:47
Speaker
And I'm thinking, oh, if if they played the song, The Bends, Karma Police, Airbag. Oh, Karma Police is great. yeah And I look at their set list. Again, this is when I was, this is 15 years ago now. i was looking at the set list. And I was like, why didn't they play Karma Police? Right, so they haven't played Creep. They didn't play Karma Police.
00:36:05
Speaker
They didn't play Airbag. What are they doing? Because I was of the opinion back then that a band has to play for the album, for the for the audience. And sos it's just fascinating to to see and...
00:36:16
Speaker
you might think that someone would be annoyed at Radiohead for that. But I think actually, as the years have gone on, the fans have come to understand what kind of band this is. And this is a band that makes the music they want to make.
00:36:30
Speaker
And because of that, they're going to play the music they want to play. Yeah. Great stuff. Yeah. yes It's interesting. Like I'm going to quote someone who's... definitely not, ah probably not a big fan of Radiohead. Noel Gallagher.
00:36:44
Speaker
okay He said something in an interview that is like really interesting. He said like ah people in the fashion industry, they don't ask anyone what they want.
00:36:56
Speaker
They're like, that's my job. I've studied for this. I've learned how to do this. I'm going to design your clothes. You're going to buy it. It's kind of like a
00:37:10
Speaker
it's a strong attitude that they have in the fashion industry, but that's what it is. They design the clothes and they tell you what you're going to wear. Yeah. You know, but and if you don't like don't want it, you can buy some, you can go to, well, yeah you can buy some like kind of ah ah old school stuff. You can still dress like in in the thirties and forties if you want to. Yeah. You can buy a hat. You can buy an old school kind of suit and you can do that. It's fine.
00:37:34
Speaker
Yeah. But like the, the current fashion industry, they're like, we're We're doing this and that's where we're going to put out. Whilst musicians are like asking the label, should I write this?
00:37:44
Speaker
Will people like this? Oh, this song is too long. Oh, there's no chorus in this song. there's no So I think there's ah this really weak attitude from artists and labels about, oh, we can't, we can't.
00:37:57
Speaker
ah flirt with the idea of not pleasing the audience. But if you don't try to surprise them from time to time, everything's going to be the same all the time. And who would who would dare to imagine that song a song like Creep would be a hit, a massive hit. Yeah.
00:38:16
Speaker
So, you know, just I think I think it should start from musicians to say, this is how I want to write my songs. Yeah. And I'm going to put them out there. If people want to buy it, fine. Someone is going to buy it. Nowadays, it's so much easier to put music out there, you know.
00:38:31
Speaker
And I think Radiohead was like that. That's why I really, really respect. If we didn't have songs like Creep, if we didn't have bands like Radiohead, music would be really boring.
00:38:42
Speaker
Either you like them or not, or the song, either do you like the song or not. You've got to recognize that it's not the usual stuff you listen on the radio, and it played on the radio. Bro, i don't think there's any better way to finish off with what you said.
00:38:55
Speaker
So we'll leave it there. Did you have anything else to say, actually, whilst you're this role? No, good no, no. I've got lot a lot of things to say about ah the books I'm reading and um ah politics and and and the crash of the markets, but no, no, no. We'll keep that until after this of recording ends, yeah?
00:39:12
Speaker
Excellent. that's it there. I'm happy to end it here. All right. Well, thank you guys for joining us for another episode of the Long Live Rock and Roll podcast. If you're listening to us on Apple, Spotify, Amazon, or wherever you get your podcasts from, do us a favor, go onto our page and give us a review.
00:39:25
Speaker
It takes 20 seconds of your time to just scroll down, hit the five stars, write a little sentence about us, but honestly it does the world of good for us because the more reviews we get, the more good ones we get as well, the higher we climb up the charts and the more people we are seen and listened by.
00:39:39
Speaker
If you are watching on YouTube, make sure to hit like and subscribe to stay up date with all our content. we bring a you We bring you one of these kind of episodes every week, be it an album or a song. And then we're also putting out a bunch of short videos as well. I've done one on Mothead versus Judas Priest.
00:39:53
Speaker
You'll see Felipe's put one out on Jimmy Page as a session musician. And we're going to bring you those from time to time as well. So make sure you like and subscribe to stay up to date with that content. Thank you, and we'll see you very soon. Yeah, thanks for being with us once again. And the the five stars thing, I think, I don't know how it goes. I think it's a button that you click somewhere. I don't know, the internet thing. Yeah, you click on it. So click on that thing.
00:40:13
Speaker
If you think we we're worth four and a half stars, just round it up. Give us five. There you And thanks for being with us once again. Keep on rocking, everyone. And don't do anything I wouldn't do.
00:40:25
Speaker
Thank you, guys. And as usual, take care and long live rock and roll.