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95. ‘Trash’ - Alice Cooper (1989)
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After years of redefining shock rock and cementing his legacy as one of Rock’s most theatrical and influential performers, Alice Cooper made a triumphant return in 1989 with ‘Trash’. This bold, chart-topping album marked a polished reinvention, blending glam metal and hard rock with infectious hooks and unforgettable anthems. Featuring iconic collaborations, the album delivered hit singles like “Poison,” which dominated radio and MTV airplay. With its radio-friendly sound and undeniable energy, ‘Trash’ became a defining moment in Cooper’s career, showcasing his ability to evolve and remain a driving force in rock history.
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#AliceCooper #TrashAlbum #Poison #GlamMetal #ShockRock #80sRock #JonBonJovi #Aerosmith
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Transcript
Introduction
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Long Live Rock and Roll Podcast.
Alice Cooper's Comeback with Trash
00:00:04
Speaker
After years of redefining shock rock and presenting himself as one of rock's most theatrical performers, Alice Cooper returned in 1989 with Trash, a bold polished reinvention that took him to the top of the charts. Packed with memorable hooks, significant collaborations and an accessible radio friendly sound, Trash marked a significant move for Cooper, embracing a glam metal sound that resonated with a new generation of fans.
Meet the Co-host
00:00:31
Speaker
Joining me to discuss this album is my co-host, Mr. Felipe Amarin. How are you doing, bro? Doing great. How are you? Very good. Thank you. How are things in London? Well, you know, busy as usual. Yeah, exactly. A bit windy, a bit rainy. Excellent. Cool. Well, as usual, let's get straight
Recording and Release of Trash
00:00:48
Speaker
into the album. I'll kick off with a few little album details and then you can tell us why you chose this album and the stories behind it.
00:00:54
Speaker
And so, as we said, the album is Trash by Alice Cooper that was released July 25th, 1989, recorded between May and June of the same year. Now, the studios it was recorded in were all over New York. There's about 10 different studios. I'm not going to list them all. The studios I've gone with, studios in
Listener Engagement Encouragement
00:01:10
Speaker
New York. um The genre, well, the main one associated with it is glam metal, but I'm sure we can actually discuss this further.
00:01:17
Speaker
It's just over 40 minutes in length and was released by Epic Label and the producer was Desmond Child. So let's get started. Quick little terms and conditions before. If you're listening to us on Apple or Spotify, make sure you scroll down and give us a nice review so that we get seen by more people in the chart. And if you're watching us on YouTube, please hit like and subscribe to stay up to date for more content.
Why Trash? Felipe's Choice
00:01:37
Speaker
So Felipe, why did you choose this album?
00:01:40
Speaker
Well, I think we had to talk about Alice Cooper at some point, right? Yeah, one of yeah biggest yeah we had to talk about him. But I think my um my choice would be something he did in the 70s, really. like I think School's Out's a great album. we could We could be talking about that one today instead. Oh, well, we will one day. We'll get that. We will, exactly. But I thought we should start from like his biggest commercial success, which strangely happened after 10 albums,
Alice Cooper's Musical Journey
00:02:09
Speaker
something like that. I think this is 11th album. yeah yeah yeah Alice Cooper ah initially was a band, you know, so was it was when he started. So I want to tell a little bit of a story um from ah from the beginnings of the band. and Well, basically he started in music when he saw the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show.
00:02:27
Speaker
as everyone else at the time. So everyone i wanted to be a musician after that. So he had a Beatles wig and he would play gigs trying to like, ah you know, copy the Beatles style and make some parodies of it of their music and stuff. And then the band went into the kind of horror movie style for for the visuals and and stuff.
00:02:47
Speaker
and pretty much kind of created this style I would say and um they were hired by ah Frank Zappa's label so Frank Zappa I think heard them and liked them and wanted to sign them and yeah so they cut a couple of albums that were not that great and then or not successful and then School's Art I think was the first ah hit album And that was it. That's a 70s band associated with Shock Rock, which I never heard of until the start of researching for this. What a Shock Rock. Because it's quite shocking, you know, they're talking about, you know, that they hate school and, you know, it's all subversive, isn't it? The whole thing is subversive. It's all about
00:03:25
Speaker
ah breaking the rules and it had the whole kind of horror movie ah concept for the visuals. So yeah, quite shocking for the time. And, but the band kind of ah decided to stop for a bit and it never came back. So, and he proceeded as a solo artist using what was the band's name, Alice Cooper, that's not his name. So that's the, that was the band's name. So he had several albums during the, the seventies that actually never made it to to the top.
Cooper's Return to Success
00:03:53
Speaker
And I think what is really interesting about this this album is, imagine you're like 41 years old and you come up with your best album after over a decade doing doing doing music and having had success in the 70s. That's very unusual.
00:04:13
Speaker
that I think also the fact that he never stopped. there it's kind of There's some comebacks which are like people stopped
Collaborations and Influences
00:04:19
Speaker
recording for 10 years and they come back and everyone's talking about them again. But he was still recording. He never stopped up to this day. He stopped touring for about three years or something in become in the early 80s. But he was still trying to make his way back to the top. After several albums, I think he got dropped by the label.
00:04:37
Speaker
and then he got another label and and he just wanted to do something different. to what What makes this album special is the fact that he was a success in the past and he he was pretty much out of the game for years and years and years.
00:04:53
Speaker
But he knew how to, to to ah well, maybe he didn't know how to get back to the top, but he found his way using some of the biggest names in the industry. I think that was the that was the clever move he made, should I just get in touch with the best names in the business. So, yeah, let's get let's start talking about the album, how it came about.
00:05:14
Speaker
um Basically, he was listening to Motley Crue and Def Leppard and and all the those bands on MTV. And he thought, wait a minute, because of MTV, all those bands now have been forced to do what I did for ages, which is to create a visual identity. So no one cared about that that much in the 70s. We talked about Deep Purple last week. like It's not about the looks, it's not that it's just a band on stage performing. yeah And he cared about that. And he noticed with MTV, the videos became bigger than the singles. So you actually need to do something that's visually shocking or remarkable in a way. And he knew how to do that better than anyone else in the business. So I think he knew that there was still a place for him. Can I pause you a second and just to say explain what Shock Rock is?
00:06:02
Speaker
Yeah. So shock rock, just for those who don't know, the general idea is it's a combination of rock music and heavy metal, but the height the the the emphasis is on the theatrics of it, isn't it? And how you look and how you come across. And all you've got to do is look at Felipe's, the background photo that on Felipe's screen now, and you see what it's about. It's about eyeliner, looking quite, I mean, Alice Cooper in particular looked very Gothic, very heavy metal, snakes, the leather gloves, pyrotechnics. I mean, you just have to look at Alice Cooper's live shows.
00:06:32
Speaker
He had things like guillotines on his shows, didn't he? Where he would sort of fake chop the heads up. Yeah, exactly. So that's the idea. You take elements of rock music, probably, in my opinion, the improvisational side of it, the solos, the bluesy aspects, you take it, you mold it with a bit of heavy metal. Again, in my opinion, the guitar tone, the lyrical themes, that's the music. And then on top of that, you put something you put a shocking look to it. You you make it very dramatic. So that for anyone who doesn't know, that's what's shot-crop. But Felipe,
Personal Life and Sobriety
00:07:01
Speaker
please continue. That was a good input from you, because I couldn't really describe what that is. I would say it's like it is the theatrical element of it, which is um some in some ways bigger than his music. right Because I've heard a lot about him before I ah ah first listened to any of his songs.
00:07:20
Speaker
you know if you see yeah You see pictures, you see documentaries and all sorts of stuff about Alice Cooper. Maybe you never heard one of his songs. I'd go as far as saying he he's probably a household name that people can't name more than three songs. Yeah.
00:07:36
Speaker
Exactly. the The general person, obviously. yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think people know school's out, poison, but mostly they know, what they they see the photo that you're behind you. Yeah. Him with his eyeliner and his snake, you know, all that stuff. And the funny thing about him is he's a Christian dude, like he's like super into religion also. So it is a stage a character. but um And actually that this like religious side and him trying to get sober was one of the biggest of reasons why the album was successful in in a certain way because the thing is he said he was really into drinking and drugs and all this stuff and he just wasn't in control anymore and he was a good friend so back in l LA he would hang out with the biggest names of British bands including that were in LA all the time in America all the time so he was really good friends with Jane Morrison, Keith Moon, Hendrix and he said in an interview he saw those guys dying one by one and it was like wait a minute
00:08:33
Speaker
I don't want to be one of them. yeah I don't want to be the next one to die. So he reconnected with his religious roots and stuff. And he ah decided to quit drinking altogether. I think he never had to drink again.
00:08:45
Speaker
since he he he decided to quit in the late 70s. And that helped him to really focus on the music, but he was really scared of performing live. That was the the the difficult thing for him, because like he was always drunk. So it's easy to go on stage and be that like scary character. yeah And it's almost like yeah like ah like a serial killer. kind of a ah um character that he he brings to the stage and he was scared of doing that with being sober. It was like um like ah apparently after three years without playing live on the beginning of the early 80s
00:09:22
Speaker
he He went to do his first performance and he was like running around the dressing room like crazy because he didn't know what to do. He didn't know how to prepare mentally for something whilst he was sober. yeah ah But I think being sober really helped him to to come with with an album that actually changed his music and his style.
Desmond Child's Role in Trash
00:09:41
Speaker
you know. And and so yeah, so going back to how he he started to, to put the the personnel together for the album, he started with the producer, he wanted Desmond Chowd, who produced Aerosmith, and I think Bon Jovi as well and all those bands. He did Slippery When We're and Permanent Vacation. Just for listeners and viewers, every episode we do this about an album, we have a dedicated playlist that's down in the description and or show notes to
00:10:08
Speaker
you click on that Spotify link and you can listen along when we mention a song you can go and listen to it and you can see what we're talking about and which parts along with the episode. And now now here's an interesting thing he said he said when he when he met him he said I love what you're doing with these bands I needed to do that for me only it needs to be darker and sexier so that is the twist right because he couldn't simply turn into the new Bon Jovi He doesn't have the voice for that, doesn't have the looks for that. He's too old at the time for that kind of stuff. And you can't just say I'm going to be like full on glam rock now and and just like impress the young girls and stuff like that. It's not going to work. He couldn't be the new Bon Jovi.
00:10:52
Speaker
Yeah, agreed. And because of that, Bon Jovi was very accessible, wasn't he? Very accessible. You know, um there's lots of similarities between Bon Jovi's music and this album that we'll get into later. But yeah, Bon Jovi was far more radio friendly. And you can't do that with someone that looks like Alice Cooper. And I think he'd be the first person to admit that. but yeah Yeah, exactly. And if you change that, there's always like a danger when you change your ah your concept so drastically that you lose touch with your previous audience and you don't necessarily please the new audience. yeah So that is really dangerous for for an artist. So I'm going to simply deny everything I've done before. And this is my new look, my new sound. And everyone's going to say, well, wait a minute, ah we don't want to. And then your your old fan is going to be, I don't like you anymore. So he was really clever to find like that sweet spot where he was still Alice Cooper, but his music
00:11:45
Speaker
could be radio friendly again with the 80s or 90s sound. He wanted to do an album for the 90s. That was the idea. That's 1989. So he knew it was the end of the decade. He wanted to find the sounds that would kind of last for the next decade. yeah um So yeah, so Desmond Child was like the key ah figure in this in this album because he is not only
Guest Artists and Songwriting
00:12:08
Speaker
a producer most producers they're going to find the right sound help the bandwidth arrangements and structures and tempos and all that stuff but he was also a songwriter so he co-wrote most of the songs i think in the album he did yep yeah yeah
00:12:21
Speaker
I think I want to mix two topics. here we We want to talk about the the guests as a thing. That's part of the album. Let's just talk about the the special guests at the same time. What a job. does Well, you want to do the guests now? Yeah, all they all at the same time. Yeah, sure. um Yeah. Why don't we just make this a big mishmash of an episode? Let's just talk about everything. off because because you know Yeah, we're joking. but we have we have so We have a script for the episode. but well yeah so very well you know just get good Let's go behind the scenes here. Let's let them know what we do. We do our research and we kind of have different categories that we want to talk about and we might go from one to the other. So we'll talk about the artist, then maybe the album, then how it's sold, then its innovative techniques or whatever. ah But yeah, let's just mix it up today. Because do you know what? The thing the thing is is that it's all relevant to each other because every point links to another. And I'll start off with the special guests thing if I may, just in the sense that
00:13:09
Speaker
i and I don't want this to come across it as a criticism because we'll talk about the album and how good it is and what I like about it. but It does seem or did seem like the guests were there purely for name value. Do you agree? Because I listen to the songs that they're on and they don't make them better. There's nothing there's nothing crazy. You know, when I listen to Only My Heart talking with Steven Tyler, Steven Tyler's got like what, 10 words in the song and half of them are just holding one note and it's cool.
00:13:39
Speaker
yes that one note that only hit him yeah exactly yeah the steve the steve and tyler note it's like the jimmy hendrix chord there's the steve and tyler note it's just that one note but no one else can do it if you take steve and tyler out the song is not any worse and the same way in all the other tracks that feature all the other guests you know richy sambora is in there on hell is living without you um you've got steve lucatha on hell is without you as well The guitar playing on those songs are not better than the rest of the album, just because it's Richie Sambora. So it seems to me that, and also, sorry, just to add, I was reading that Aerosmith were also in the sense of resurgence at this time as well. They had a little break and they were coming back towards the end of the eighties. So I wonder if it's been a bit of a symbiotic relationship here. Desmond Child, who has done work for Bon Jovi and Aerosmith has been like, guys, listen, Alice is doing a new album. He's kind of going a bit more towards the glam metal side. He needs a bit of help.
00:14:35
Speaker
making it relevant. Do you guys wanna come on and guest on a few songs? And like I said, the the the performances, there's no problem with them. I just don't think they make it better, but the same time they don't make it worse. For me, it's almost like they work as session musicians in the album. Yeah. you know like So you have Bon Jovi in a song, but he's actually doing BVs pretty much. He's not that you know he's not the lead singer. That's what the other thing I think was clever about this. Imagine you come up with this album, the comeback album,
00:15:01
Speaker
And the biggest hit in the album has someone else doing lead vocals. So I think he was really, really clever, very yeah really careful with this sort of stuff. like He wanted those big names there, but they never took the spotlight away from him at any point in the album. And I think it's good to have them. like They do contribute, but as I said to you, they contribute as much as any band member would contribute, as as much as the basis of the drummer
Glam Metal and Song Structures
00:15:27
Speaker
in the album. It's not like they're not guests, as people do in modern music, you know when you need to have a big name releasing a single with you.
00:15:36
Speaker
And it's going to be like half of the song sung by by each of you, but he's not doing that. And I think it's very much Alice's album. It is his album. And I think those guys are there so he could say, look, you know, all these really big names in rock music now, they're all my fans. They respect me. So there's a reason why they're here. And I think he wanted he wanted that. He wanted that like ah that seal of approval from people who were at the time bigger than him.
00:16:05
Speaker
Well, also they're in the same genre, really. And they're that they're in the same genre that Alice was going towards. yeah um i maybe Maybe not, because this album's kind of a bit glam-metally and I don't think Bon Jovi are that much. Well, I don't know. Anyway, that's debatable. But yeah, I just find it funny you've basically got the whole of Aerosmith on the album. You've got Stephen Tyler and Joe Perry on Only My Heart Talking. You've got Joey Kramer who playing drums on Trash.
00:16:31
Speaker
and you've got Tom Hamilton playing bass on Trash. um So you got off of Aerosmith to join it. And like we said, it's just like that symbiotic relationship of trying to help each other out. Aerosmith, like I said, apparently they were they building their own resurgence towards the end of the 80s. So I wonder if, you know, it's like a little let's swap fans. yeah ah Aerosmith fans come and check out Alice Cooper because we're going to be on them. Alice Cooper fans go and check out Aerosmith because they're going to be on my album.
00:16:56
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. i think I think there's a lot of that for sure. And um one thing I find interesting about Bon Jovi is he wanted Bon Jovi to sing something that didn't sound like him. okay So the song is trash, isn't it? The song is singing. And let me find the exact words he said about it because I find quite interesting. um Where is it? It's funny because it doesn't actually sound like Bon Jovi. He does a good job of um mixing his vocals to sound oh yeah yeah changed the tone a bit. No, exactly. So the thing is, ah I can't find the Oh, yeah. Okay. He said I wanted him to sing on something that he wasn't allowed to sing on his own album.
00:17:38
Speaker
So because of the lyrics, because because they're much darker, like that kind of stuff, ah Bon Jovi would never sing a song like Trash in his own album. So that is the rock and roll side of it. That's why I respect this this album, ah because he was like, OK, here's Bon Jovi, that pretty face that everyone knows singing Love songs. I'm going to get him to sing this one, which is like,
00:17:59
Speaker
uh not the kind of Bon Jovi you would expect but he can do a good job anyway that's the point so like and he's kind of like uh uh taking the rock and roll that is inside those guys and just just put it out there like I was just gonna say I wonder if it made Bon Jovi happy that he's like actually I get to sing a song about like gothic stuff like why not you know Yeah, exactly. So I think they all loved doing that. And Stephen Tyler did an amazing job, although it's like a backing vocalist, really. You can recognize his voice, recognize the sound of his voice in there. But again, none of the guests were bigger than Alice Cooper himself. That is like... Do you not think?
00:18:40
Speaker
No, no, in the album. oh sorry sorry there would not be general yeah they did yeah They didn't basically didn't ah grab all the attention to themselves. yeah like So I think there's no better way to use guests, I'll be honest. We're talking about like Paul McCartney playing guitar and the last Rolling Stones album or playing bass, isn't it?
00:18:58
Speaker
uh which is like um it's just it's just ah a basis in a song you know don't don't necessarily have to make the guy the super special guest and like i said i think um when you have the the guests have to play their part as well yeah i think people like ritchie sambora and steve lakatha did as well because they didn't do crazy solos that that mimic what they would do on their other material yeah they played in keeping with the album And I think that's important and sort of a well done to the guests that they they managed to not make it about themselves. I think the biggest role of the guests in general is songwriting.
00:19:34
Speaker
because that's where the real partnership is. That's what really made the album special is the quality of the songs. So he wanted them to help him to write hits hits for the 90s, for the late 80s, 90s. So those guys knew how to write it, but Alice Cooper had his own touch, his own touch and know own way of of singing, which is much darker, much heavier than all of those guys.
00:19:57
Speaker
but Let's talk about the songwriting then because I found it really interesting. um Essentially what you've got is what I defined shock rock as earlier. You have big elements of rock, kind of bluesy solos, the occasional bluesy riff, easy going chords mixed with heavy metal or let's call it glam metal at the time, guitar tones.
00:20:16
Speaker
very polished production, everything crisp and sounding really sort of nice. Backing vocals galore, isn't it? It's just everywhere. um I thought it was really good. I really enjoyed the songwriting. Memorable riffs um that balance the heaviness of the tone. i I mean, what's that song? Spark in the Dark, the the main riff. so that That kind of reminded me of um Crazy Train, just as a kind of riff, you know, to get the song going, really keep it. But yeah, every song, Felipe,
00:20:46
Speaker
or I would say every song, most songs had the catchiest choruses yeah I've heard in Glam Metal. And I don't mind Glam Metal. It's far from my favorite metal genre. No, exactly. I knew when I picked this album, I knew it would have been your cup of tea. Well, not even mine, to be fair. Glam Metal has its moments. and There are some great songs. But for the whole, I don't really like Motley Crue. Guns N' Roses is a bit hit and miss for me. Those kind of bands I'm not really into.
00:21:12
Speaker
Alice, this album kind of had enough of rock had enough of the rocky side, the darker lyrics, the gothic approach to it mixed with the sound of glam metal to make it really, really accessible. I enjoyed it. And I think yeah think the guitar work throughout the whole album All the guitarists in the album, everything in the album is just great. Because if there's a song that you particularly don't like for any reason, you will still enjoy the guitar solo. That is the one thing. The solos are not long, the solos are all well written and executed. Can I read you my points for Henry's living without you? Another power ballad that seems very middle of the road compared to only my heart talking. However,
00:21:55
Speaker
the chorus and the guitar solo save it and earn its place on the album. yeah So I didn't think much of Hell Is Living Without You, but then when that solo came in, I was like, okay, this is like, I don't want to not hear this solo again. So you can stay, you know. Exactly. I mean, it's, it's, it's in a way very typical, like,
00:22:13
Speaker
80s kind of guitar sounds and solos but so well played now the choice of notes and the tones and the length of the solos everything's just perfect because again are you can't shine more than than the singer you know it's not about the guitar still about you know this persona who is the lead singer and songwriter um like there's a there's a great guitar solo and this maniac is in love with you which is It's two guitars overdubbed like really cool two melodies, then never clash in a way and sound really, really good together. Although the keyboard sound is like as 80s as it gets. so Sometimes the keyboard the keyboard sound and the excessive reverb on the drums, it's what makes the album sound like a bit too 80s for my taste, I would say.
00:23:06
Speaker
you know, but it's again, it's a matter of taste. I think that that sound of the 80s has never been used again. That reverb on this neardrum. No one has ever used that much, you know, since since the 80s, really.
Songwriting Highlights: Poison
00:23:18
Speaker
I want to say, judge judge stay on that song, because I wanted to say there was a great moment to here where it contrasts, where you've got Alice Cooper, really, his voice is going, there's nothing more that I can do. And it sounds called Cut Dark quite metally. And then the next lyric,
00:23:34
Speaker
with like a six part vocal harmony. This maniac's in love with you. Just what a contrast that within in about 20 seconds, you've got this really kind of gothic part here where his voice is doing his normal thing. And then this beautiful like five part harmony going on straight after. It shouldn't work, man, but it does. And I think, it again, we'll talk about it later, you know, make make your next point, but I would just want to credit Desmond Child for the production. Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Please go ahead. Yeah, so I think another highlight for me um in terms of songwriting, I'm Your Gun, the last song, because I wasn't expecting anything ah good at the end of the album. Sometimes you just have a filler to finish the album. And that's a punk kind of a punk rock song really. up he so Yeah, and it sounds ah a little bit more like what he did in the 70s. So it was a quite as a great surprise at the end of it. Heavy, you know, quite heavy, fast, or really punchy. I think I like that one a lot. um Bed of Nails is another one that has great production and amazing guitar riffs. So I think if you if you take the production away, that's why I wanted to talk about the production now, because the thing is, if you take the production away and
00:24:46
Speaker
and the and the lyrics, you have ah a formula for pop music that, you know, like intro, verse, pre-chorus, chorus, and then a solo, and then a bridge, and then another chorus, and then the relentless repetition of choruses at the end, sometimes changing the key. All that stuff, if I isolate the melodies and the song structures, you think this is like typical radio pop, there's nothing new to it, but the lyric contents are not like typical.
00:25:16
Speaker
but might Some of them might sound a bit silly, I don't know, but it's not typical, it's not predictable, and the production makes it sound like rock music instead of of like just radio-friendly pop. What do you think? Yeah, no, I completely agree. I mean, you you just mentioned Better Nails. Now, for me, I've put very metal intro and actually a very metal song, probably the heaviest on the album in terms of guitar tones, but there's dark chords in there, the lyrics are dark as well.
00:25:39
Speaker
but yet we get another really catchy chorus. So when we just venture off into the, into the he kind of like, he tests it, he tests the waters. He's like, okay, how metal can I make this? Okay, this is pretty metal, but I'm gonna rein it in with a chorus that everyone's gonna sing along with, which is really good. um You mentioned as well the key changes. I wanted to say that, yeah Poison, I know the song and I've heard it before, um but i didn't i don't I don't know it that well. So when when it came, and I i sort of understood and I was doing my research and I listened to the album,
00:26:10
Speaker
I kind of preempted a key change coming at the end of it and it never comes at poison and I'm so glad it doesn't because the key it sits in I think is perfect for the darkness. Sometimes you hear bands doing key changes and now I'm really pedantic with this so maybe no one agrees with me about what I'm about to say. i love If I love a song it's because I love the key it's in.
00:26:32
Speaker
I'm gonna see one of my favorite bands on Saturday and unfortunately, well, I say unfortunately, it's gonna be amazing. They're playing one of my favorite albums in full, but the album was from 2005 and they play it a step down for the singer's voice. So I love the original album because they play it in a drop detuning, but actually when I see it on Saturday, it's gonna be a drop C tuning because they move the whole guitar down. So I'm not gonna get to hear it the way I want. I'm still gonna love it because it's the songs I love, it's the riffs I love, but I'm very pedantic about this.
00:27:01
Speaker
It does change the song a lot. It does, doesn't it? I'm glad you agree. I think a key change, let's say a key change in the middle of a song, because the song changes completely. If I have a two-part song and the second part is totally different and there has a different key, I like that. That's fine. But when you just repeat exactly what just happened, half step above, it's like, oh, come on. I I'm not going to do a key. I find that like,
00:27:29
Speaker
that tool of production tool so cheesy and so predictable. And I agree with you, when you're talking about prog rock, prog metal, that classical music, classical music changes key all over the place, yeah but it's because you're leading into the next section. yeah yeah when you just go but i call it I call it the Eurovision treatment because there's always a key change at the end.
00:27:50
Speaker
because there's more we i got I got a checklist when we do Eurovision with my family. We're sat there like, oh, Bulgaria, they can have a key change? Yes or no? No. Oh, they did. There you go. But the the fifth interesting thing is that I hate them. I hate key changes at the end for the sake of it.
00:28:05
Speaker
So when poison happened and there wasn't a key change, it sounds like a key change, but all that's happening is as another vocal comes in and sings a harmony louder. So you think something's different about this chorus to the last chorus and there is something different. But I'm sat there thinking, thank God they didn't change it. But then in Spark in the Dark, they do put a key change in and it works. At the end in the final course, and my point is when i when I went off about my my talking about my key, my preferences,
00:28:32
Speaker
sometimes the song is in a key that works for the song and you're sat there and you know yeah this melody is great the key is the key is fantastic and then for the sake of employing that cheesy technique that you mentioned they'll be like oh what should we do key change up half a step let's do it and sometimes the key it goes up to works less and i think why have you done that because it doesn't sound better. If you're going to employ a key change in that sense, make it triumphant, make it even bigger than what it was before. Spark in the Dark does that, I think. I think the key it moves up to for that final chorus works.
00:29:08
Speaker
And I'm just glad that he doesn't do it all the time. And in songs like Poison, for little pedantics like me, the key it starts and stays in works beautifully the whole way through and he doesn't need to change it. Spark in the dark starts and stays in a brilliant key. And then the key it goes to works even better just to polish it off.
00:29:27
Speaker
really tasteful. again that's That's one of the best songs in the albums in terms of Spark in the Dark. I think it was the first song I've listened to in the album that was like, wow, this this is catchy. I like it. And it's heavy. It's it's heavy. The first two songs are brilliant. i mean The first three songs are brilliant. The Poison for me is like too much like radio stuff in a way. It was clearly designed to be a hit while Spark in the Dark thinks... I like Poison's good song. but it's i think i also poison that has the theme of ah drug addiction, ah which is, it's you gotta talk, if you wanna talk about that and you wanna be ah on MTV, you gotta disguise the subject somehow. So it's about, you know, it's it's like him is it is's pretending to be addicted addicted to a woman, but it's about drugs, which is very obvious in a way, but, ah you know, it was done in ah in a clever way for sure.
00:30:19
Speaker
I think let's talk about Poison for a bit because it is ah it is is like the is my favorite song on the album, the hit. um The opening riff is brilliant. And just so you kind of, you know, it sits in between metal and rock. It's fantastic. you It's kind of rocky enough that you're like, OK, well, this reminds me of a Wolf Mother song. And then it's also mentally enough that it kind of has that crazy train. did it it it did it it you know did it did it You know, it kind of just has those intervals in the guitar playing that you kind of sat there saying,
00:30:48
Speaker
this ticks the loads of boxes. But then after that I thought how interesting and fascinating that the first verse of this comeback album is so quiet and low in dynamics and so empty yeah because it comes down and there's nothing is there, it's just a drop a slow drum beat, your touch.
00:31:09
Speaker
It's not interesting. And then suddenly he goes, you're thrilled. And then the song kicks in and you're like, oh my God, here it is. And then that build up from absolute nothing to lips are better. That's why it's just brilliant. Really great songwriting, really. It is fantastic songwriting. Again, if he wasn't Alyssa Cooper singing, it could be a pop song. I think his voice is always too dark and heavy for pop music. So that's why I think he would always sound like a rock singer regardless of the production and everything.
00:31:45
Speaker
um Yeah, I think um it's interesting that it starts the album talking about addiction when he actually just got rid of it and is like 100% focused on producing good music and and that song proves that he really achieved what he wanted, I think. I think this, this yeah.
00:32:07
Speaker
they don't go go for it No, go on. I was going to say, what other songs do you like? like Well, a Bed of Neos is the the second favorite after Spark in the Dark for me because of the riff again. And I'm Your Gun, the one I said is the last one. My three favorites would be Spark in the Dark, Bed of Neos, and I'm Your Gun. I do like Poison. I think Poison is great.
Trash's Commercial Success
00:32:28
Speaker
And and that one, Ballad, the one with Stephen Tyler. but so What's the name of that one? Only My Heart all my heart Talking. yeah Yeah, very sweet, very romantic, a proper, like that's a great example of how to do a power ballad correctly. And here's the thing. ah Alice Cooper said in an interview that, you know, he wanted to, well, he knew there had to be a compromise to should be successful in the 80s as a rock artist. And that was the the this smart choice he made. And this so did Aerosmith and all those guys. He said that the radio wanted disco and that's it.
00:33:05
Speaker
not doing disco you're not you're gonna not gonna make it they don't want riffs they don't want any of the heavy stuff so okay what's the compromise for rock artists ballad a ballad is radio friendly enough yeah so you don't need to go full on disco you don't need to do you know the typical pop stuff that is going on at the time but if you write a power ballad then you can you can reach a new audience you you can please the radio stations And the rock fans are not going to be disappointed because I think every rock fan likes a ballad every now and then. And there was something interesting about the way he promoted the album. Well, you've got to say, as they say in America, he was driving a garbage truck, garbage truck. Right. You can't say it's not rubbish, it's just garbage.
00:33:50
Speaker
ah So he was um was driving this truck going to the radio stations to deliver the album. It's just brilliant. It's like Alice Cooper himself. It's trash, you know, that's it. Trash. And he would deliver the album at the radio station. let's just Absolutely brilliant marketing strategy. I am amazing. Yeah. Yeah. No, just in terms of the songs, I mean, I did think I thought after this maniac's in love with you, I thought, okay, trash in hell is living without you. I don't think they reached the heights of the other songs. And trash ironically, you know, I thought quite quite bland, um not really much going for it. um But other than that, there's not, I can't really say I disliked a song. I thought every song had moments where either a cool guitar riff, either, well, I mean, most of them had catchy choruses, great solos.
00:34:46
Speaker
um I don't know what's not to like, especially if you're a rock or a metal fan, because it ticks boxes for everyone. And I think that's probably a big part of why the album did so well, especially as a comeback album. I think it's only the 80s production in a way that some of those sounds, that they just don't. But it's not out of place. No, it's not out of place. It belongs to that sort of time anyway. Every album at the time would sound like that. It doesn't sound any worse than any things out there in terms of the cheesiness. I think, I mean, you said it as well in that song. What's the one with
00:35:17
Speaker
Oh yeah, the synth in this Maniac's In Love With You sounds really outdated now, but back in the end of the 80s, it probably fit quite well, you know. yeah But let's talk about the production, because I just think he's done a great job, hasn't he? Desmond Child, he's known for his hit making, he's known for this kind of music. So who else are you going to get him to do it? Like, it's perfect, the perfect marriage. Slick production, polished, clean sound, emphasizing the hooks, the solos,
00:35:46
Speaker
anthemic choruses throughout, glossy guitar tones, driving rhythms. It just it just ticked every box and I don't think you sit here thinking it's the perfect glam metal album but it appeals to so many people and I think that's what worked. Yeah exactly and I think um It's interesting to to think that someone in their forties would be singing to to teenagers at the time, you know, and on you know, he made it because because the music is good. After all, that's what really counts. You can do all of that. You can have the perfect marketing, the perfect guests in the album, the perfect producer. But if the songwriting is not good enough, none of that's going to work.
00:36:31
Speaker
Shall we give a shout out to the band? So you've got John McCurry on guitar, Hugh McDonald on bass, Bobby Sreenard on drums and Alison John on keyboards amongst all the guests we mentioned. um But yeah, I mean, the music is a consistent thing throughout the whole album as in it's just perfect that the the rhythm section just absolutely yeah doing their job. As we say, you know, every good album we talk about, it's I don't think it's it's a coincidence that the rhythm section are always on it because that has to be, it's the back but backbone of the album.
00:37:01
Speaker
John McCurry's guitar solos. he's I think like reputationally, he might get lost because you've got names like Richie Sambora and Steve LaCather on there. People might not know who John McCurry is. And I don't know who he is before this album, but you've got to give him his credit. The solos on this album are brilliant. Oh, he's in loads of albums. his Is he really? Yeah, yeah. I think he got credit as some writing guitar player in hundreds of albums. ah is is Yeah. ah But yeah, so he was working with the best. You're right. Yeah. Cyndi Lauper, Binny Joel, Bowie.
00:37:31
Speaker
john ah Julian Lennon, Josh Stone, Katy Perry. God, he'll still be working now. And think about that. He's only 67. So think about Dave Bowie and Katy Perry. that's If you can work with those and group completely different yeah artists, then you've got to be good. And he collaborated as songwriter with many of those artists as well, not only only as a guitar player. So yeah, so he's as important to the album as Stephen Tyler or actually I would say more important than than the famous guests in the album you know because the riffs are just it's just like mind-blowing the riffs are great uh the one well I want to talk about uh if you if we have anything else to say about production or um no not really um no yeah so I want to talk about about the legacy of this album so yeah so it does for me um
00:38:25
Speaker
it It does set the pace for the 90s in a way.
Cooper's Media Influence
00:38:29
Speaker
So because you have this artist now connecting two generations of rock fans, that is the main legacy of the album. You have someone who had the first hit album in 73.
00:38:39
Speaker
now releasing on top of the charts in 1989. So it's incredible because the so the music, the rock music has changed so much in that time and and he adapted to to church to the new the new ah times and the new sound of rock and roll. But he is literally connecting the the the older rock fan generation to the to the young ones, also showing MTV how it's done. Because as I said, everyone is doing videos, but I can do them better. I can have like a more shocking look and all the stuff. And I want to mention that that another really cool thing, it's his um his appearance in Wayne's World 1992.
00:39:24
Speaker
We watched that movie, Wayne's Road. Yeah, there's a scene where they go to his dressing room after the gig and they're like, we are not worthy. Oh, yeah, that's to him. is's in that but Yeah, so that's him. Yeah. So he's in a movie with his band. And I love what they did in that scene because it shows.
00:39:43
Speaker
the character, not the character, but the the the person behind the character. So they walk in there and you they clearly think, you know, there's going to be girls and drugs and all the stuff. right And he's just there with his band hanging out and he invites them and they start talking about history and politics.
00:39:59
Speaker
So like, it's not rock and roll. But it shows what the reality of the business is. You know, ah we might think that those guys are like high all the time or drinking all the time and just having fun. There's a lot of hard work to be done and when you're not playing a gig, you just want to chill.
00:40:16
Speaker
Yeah. And and ah Alice Cooper himself being like someone who doesn't drink anymore, he's a Christian. So what's the point? There's no drugs, there's no girls, just a band hanging out and talking about history and politics. It's just brilliant.
Significance of Poison's Success
00:40:29
Speaker
And you can see the me that the two main characters like, right, like they're expecting something to happen and nothing happens. It's just absolutely brilliant. And I think that's part of his legacy to be in that movie.
00:40:41
Speaker
And to show this other side of rock and roll as a joke. But that's reality. That's that's who Alice Cooper actually is. And he's not afraid to show that like, i you know, I'm actually this like, a quiet person in my personal life. And, you know, the character, the character is something else, right? And I think it's a I imagine how hard it was for him to play the character, being sober and being a different person, you know. So yeah, some I mean, hats off to him for that. Literally hats off.
00:41:11
Speaker
um but yeah uh so so i think the album uh just saying like the the single poison was his first top 10 hit since you and me which was 1977 so it took him 12 years to put a another another song on the charts i mean well done for for for not giving up you know yeah yeah exactly yeah just pursuing with it and just sticking with it and i think i think what the most important thing here is in this album is understanding that time waits for no man or woman. And, you know, when you were saying about earlier about the legacy of this album, I was thinking in my head, Judas Priest did the same thing because they were around at the end of the sixties and they sort of, their first few albums were in the early seventies and they had this very kind of hard rock going into metal sound from albums like, oh, I can't remember what it's called. Something, yeah, it doesn't matter.
00:42:08
Speaker
um
00:42:11
Speaker
and then in the then they that they found their form in the 80s when Iron Maiden and the new wave of British heavy metal exploded because Judas Priest was like hold on we fit this bill and they kind of tailored their sound a little bit to fit in with that punky new wave of British heavy metal sound but they didn't lose what made them them at the start and arguably their biggest albums came after their resurgence so it's just it's just important to understand that they've adapted. And this is what you have to do in a cut for in any business in any, in any walk of life, when <unk> it's it's almost natural, isn't it? When you think about going back to the to the animal world, kill or be killed.
00:42:54
Speaker
Yeah. And you know, Alice Cooper had to make those adjustments and change his sound and embrace something that he wasn't used to, embracing a new glam metal sound, embracing polished production.
Cooper's Enduring Legacy
00:43:04
Speaker
But he didn't want to lose what made him him. And that's why this album was a success. I think he wanted, he kind of wanted to say, you know what are you guys doing? I can do that, but better. Yeah. yeah or different. I can do that, but I can still make it an Alice Cooper sounding album. Yeah. And and I think, well, I mean, it's it's not easy to find that spot, you know, when you you find the perfect balance between the the musician you used to be and the musician you want to be. I think there was a danger of, as he moved towards the 80s and especially the end of the 80s, he might be looked at as a legacy artist. Yeah.
00:43:41
Speaker
in terms of like, okay, yeah, Alice Cooper did this in the seventies, but now let's, you know, that guy from the past. Yeah. Let's just look back on what he did with fondness. We'll make it good. You know, we'll look at him like, thank you for what you did, but releasing trash and making it as important and as significant as he did, he made himself relevant.
00:43:58
Speaker
And his next couple of albums after that remained relevant. I mean, Rock and Metal took a whole other turn in the 90s. You know, no, Glam Metal died the day that Nirvana released, nevermind. So, yeah you know, it didn't last long, but he did what he had to do, man. and he's still And he's still touring like selling out shows all over the world. Crazy, isn't it? Massive production in a fantastic band. He's definitely one of the greatest like live acts. and in rock music and yeah it's it's amazing
Felipe's Reflection on Cooper's Fame
00:44:27
Speaker
that he's still going he still has the passion for it and it's yeah brilliant cool uh anything else you want to say any other stories or do you want to give us your monologue? Yeah I think I want to give my monologue to and the show I'm starting to get used to this you do a great job man I love all your monologues honestly all right so here you go Philip is monologue
00:44:49
Speaker
Rock and roll is about breaking the rules, but sometimes you need to follow the trend to survive. After a decade without a hit on the charts, Alice Cooper found himself rejected by the music industry and fading away as a mainstream personality.
00:45:04
Speaker
But he wasn't ready to call it a day just yet. He had the most powerful weapon in the business, connections. Cooper contacted some of the biggest names in the industry and hired the hit maker, producer, songwriter Desmond Child to help him to create an album that would resonate through the 90s and bring him back from the dead into the spotlight again.
00:45:24
Speaker
Cooper knew that he had to be a compromise if he wanted to rise to the top one more time. He adapted his music and production to suit the needs of the new generation of rock fans, but he kept his essence intact, with just the right amount of darkness and subversion to cut through the predictable song structures and repetitive choruses.
00:45:43
Speaker
He had Bon Jovi and Stephen Tyler singing with him, showing to the world that he was admired and respected by the biggest names of the decade. Poison was the first song written for the project, the first track on the album, and Cooper's first hit in a long time. The album has achieved its goal, to put Alice Cooper back on top with style. His voice, his image and his music have reached out to a younger audience and made him consolidate his success with several generations of rock fans. Legendary comeback for a legend of rock.
Conclusion and Listener Call-to-Action
00:46:14
Speaker
Very good. I loved your first few sentences where you were like, you know, he know he needed to do something and he used his connections. And that's the thing. I mean, I don't know if you can definitely attribute the success of this album to the fact that Stephen Tyler and John Bon Jovi are on it, but it can't have hurt. kind ah think the I think the songwriting element of the partnership definitely helped.
00:46:34
Speaker
yeah more more more than having their voices in the album. I think it's having their names in it and having ah Richard Sombaro writing songs with him and all those guys ah collaborating. Because I think one thing is to listen to someone's music and say I want to do something like that. The other thing is to have the person with you working on a new song. So it's like I want to do a song like you guys doing. Can you come and write it with me? I think that's why the the the ah the guests were ah crucial to to to the success of the album. yeah thanks and
00:47:04
Speaker
cool right well anyway thank you for joining us for another episode of the long live rock and roll podcast if you're listening on apple and spotify please go down and give us a review if you give us a little five star review with a few nice words it takes 20 seconds of your time what it does for us is it shoots us up the charts and we'd be seen by more people and we're gonna get more less more listens, more downloads and hopefully will become a bigger podcast. If you're watching on YouTube, please make sure to like and subscribe so that you stay up to date with our latest content and share our stuff with anyone you know who would appreciate it. If you see someone who likes Alice Cooper, give them this video and let them check it out as well. So thank you for joining us and we'll see you next time. Yeah, thanks for being with us once again. Keep on rocking everyone and don't do anything I wouldn't do.
00:47:46
Speaker
And as usual, take care and long live rock and roll.