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Two Man ForeCheck Episode 414
5 Plays1 year ago
Styles make fights: Florida vs Carolina and whoever emerges from the Dallas Vs Edmonton Western Conference Finals.
Ryan Warsofsky future coach of the Bruins, currently leading US Men's Championship team.
Toronto Maple Leafs post Shanahan and post Shanaplan.
Marner or Matthews or both or neither poll
Eichel contract.
Boston Bruins, NHL draft, knife fighting, BizNasty, and more
Recommended
Transcript
State of the Conference Finals
00:00:00
Two Man Forecheck
good Good morning, Chris.
00:00:05
Chris
Good morning, Mike.
00:00:08
Two Man Forecheck
We are deep into the conference finals already. ah We've seen a an executive let go, a hardcore fan holding on to his fandom really, really hard,
00:00:24
Two Man Forecheck
um And we've seen a couple of local boys go big. ah Where do we want to start this week?
00:00:34
Chris
do we start Do we get the particulars out of the way as far as the playoffs are concerned?
00:00:40
Two Man Forecheck
Yeah, we can start with playoffs. so
00:00:42
Chris
May as well. I mean, that's what we're here for.
00:00:46
Two Man Forecheck
Which do you want to start with the east or the west?
00:00:49
Chris
Oh, God. Let's start in the East because it's an embarsing E for embarrassment. And i'm feeling I'm actually feeling a little embarrassed because last week I made some statements that are being disproven by the Florida Panthers.
00:01:05
Chris
Number one being that there isn't going to be a sweep this deep in the playoffs. I might be.
00:01:12
Two Man Forecheck
That one I can forgive you for, but you have to ask, I mean, the question has already been answered at this point.
00:01:12
Chris
Yeah.
00:01:22
Two Man Forecheck
there're The Carolina Hurricanes are what, 13 and, or 0-13 in their conference finals appearances?
00:01:32
Chris
Haven't they won a Stanley Cup?
00:01:34
Two Man Forecheck
and Well, in the last four or five years.
00:01:36
Chris
Oh, okay. Let's, if we.
00:01:38
Two Man Forecheck
they I think they've been swept three times ah two times in in their last two so appearances.
00:01:45
Chris
Well, yes. if I mean, if if you want to if you're if you're going to minimize it that way, yes, they did make, ah they did win a Stanley Cup. I'm pretty sure.
00:01:55
Two Man Forecheck
Yes, before most of the players on the roster were alive.
00:01:58
Chris
Ah, I see. But I did make this statement along with the fact that there wasn't going to be a sweep. I did make the statement that I wasn't, I, I, I was going with the Panthers because the Carolina hurricanes have to show me that they can succeed at this because they haven't
Carolina's Playoff Challenges
00:02:19
Chris
shown me. And as you just rightfully pointed out, they have not been successful in recent years.
00:02:28
Chris
ah This is deeper than they've been. I mean, they they tend to play really, really, really hard just to make the playoffs, and then they end up bowing out first, second round.
00:02:39
Chris
I mean, this is pretty deep for them, but I'm i'm thinking they're worn out again.
00:02:47
Two Man Forecheck
and See, I don't see them as worn out because, like, watching last night's game three,
00:02:53
Chris
ah They they
00:02:55
Two Man Forecheck
they got the first goal.
00:02:56
Chris
they rolled over in the third period.
00:02:59
Two Man Forecheck
They got the first goal. They played strong hockey for 40, 45 minutes.
00:03:05
Chris
Uh-huh. ahha
00:03:08
Two Man Forecheck
ah But the Panthers are as much a counterpunch team as any and NHL team is right now. And when they counterpunch, they hit you four times, not once.
00:03:20
Two Man Forecheck
And i think there's a couple of things that were said last night ah by Biz during the broadcast um that really need addressing because he's not wrong.
00:03:34
Two Man Forecheck
He said there's no pushback on the team. um They're letting their star players get mauled by sometimes by the Panthers star star players.
00:03:45
Two Man Forecheck
But also I think it's deeper than that. I think so but I think some of the guys who have a little life in them. don't know when to but Don't know when to show their anger or get get some of their own back. Like Svechnikov just keeps taking stupid penalties every game.
00:04:05
Two Man Forecheck
I don't know if it's his frustration with the Panthers, his frustration with his own game, or his frustration with his teammates.
00:04:05
Chris
Yeah.
00:04:14
Chris
All of the above.
00:04:15
Two Man Forecheck
um and But like, just watching him, he just doesn't get it so Or he's driven to not caring and just wants to let something out.
00:04:29
Chris
I think he cares. I'm not im I would never say i would
00:04:32
Two Man Forecheck
Oh, I think he cares. i don't think he understands is the difference.
00:04:38
Chris
I mean, he cared enough a few years ago that, you know, he decided to step up to Ovechkin until Ovechkin dropped him with one punch. ah I mean, he, I think he's in the minority on his team, though. I think as far as showing any pushback, he is one of maybe three players.
00:05:01
Chris
there he's been Biz is right. They're not pushing back. Florida is pushing them around, especially when it gets later in a game. And Carolina is not showing that fight.
00:05:15
Chris
And I don't know who was in net when Brad scored his goal. That was a pretty goal.
00:05:21
Two Man Forecheck
um It's their backup goaltender who...
00:05:25
Chris
Was that Kuchekov?
00:05:27
Two Man Forecheck
That was Kachetkov. And...
00:05:29
Chris
They had already pulled Anderson at that point.
00:05:31
Two Man Forecheck
ah Anderson didn't start last night. Kachetkov did.
00:05:34
Chris
Oh, that's, see, I didn't actually see the game.
00:05:34
Two Man Forecheck
played...
00:05:36
Chris
I've seen highlights, so I didn't see who was in that.
00:05:40
Two Man Forecheck
And that's that's part of the other issue. I've watched this whole series in the first two games... Anderson might have been responsible for two of the goals out of 10.
00:05:57
Chris
Then this is just a change for trying to spark something.
00:06:03
Two Man Forecheck
Yes.
00:06:04
Two Man Forecheck
Like Anderson, Anderson could not see most of the goals coming. He was doing what he normally does in that moving around sound position, um, anticipating,
00:06:04
Chris
and Okay.
00:06:14
Chris
Yes, but florida is doing Florida is doing what they normally do, which is screen the net very well.
00:06:21
Two Man Forecheck
screen the net very well,
00:06:23
Chris
Take his eyes away.
00:06:23
Two Man Forecheck
and make and not waste time ah dusting off shots before they shoot.
00:06:32
Two Man Forecheck
um Honestly, I think some of the one of the biggest differences between the best the top third of the league and everyone else is that last little detail of how much time players spend dusting off pucks or settling pucks down before they make the shot.
00:06:51
Chris
not that i'm to and I'm not trying to bring the Bruins into this, but that actually makes a lot of sense because if you watch the Bruins, especially as the season went on toward the deadline and after it, they spent way too much time looking for that perfect shot.
00:07:10
Chris
they didn't If you watch some of the games, and yes, defense plays a part in it. So block shots, shot attempts, they didn't shoot enough.
00:07:21
Chris
They had some periods where they'd have four shots on
00:07:22
Two Man Forecheck
No.
Importance of Physical Play in Playoffs
00:07:24
Chris
net.
00:07:24
Chris
They were so busy passing, looking for that one opening that was going to get them the easy goal. And unfortunately, you're not set up that way. You've got one line that could do it because you had Geeky and Pasta and and whatever.
00:07:40
Chris
And yeah, okay, between them, they could do it, but the whole team as a whole couldn't do it. And yeah, I think Carolina is falling into that trap and the Panthers don't.
00:07:52
Two Man Forecheck
The Panthers...
00:07:52
Chris
the panthers have the The Panthers have the Frank Vetrano mode of shooting, which is, i have the puck, I'm shooting it, which is
00:08:05
Two Man Forecheck
um i i See, I don't think that the Carolina Hurricanes take excessive time getting ready to shoot. um I think they are in the top third,
00:08:17
Two Man Forecheck
but
00:08:17
Chris
Really?
00:08:18
Two Man Forecheck
I don't think that defensively they adjust to the screens on their goaltender as well. They don't clear guys out.
00:08:25
Chris
That I agree to.
00:08:28
Chris
I think they spend more time trying to set up than...
00:08:31
Two Man Forecheck
They don't move the puck. they don't um they don't move the pocket
00:08:36
Chris
The question is, do they have any ah besides Svetchnikov, do they have anybody that can clear out guys? Svetchnikov, I mean, he's not a huge guy, but he is physical.
00:08:43
Two Man Forecheck
right
00:08:47
Two Man Forecheck
I mean, you don't even necessarily need to be huge, but you need to be willing to lean in and push.
00:08:47
Chris
But i they don't.
00:08:53
Two Man Forecheck
And you also have to actually make physical contact with the other guy.
00:08:53
Chris
and they but they don't
00:08:58
Two Man Forecheck
I mean, they have Dmitry Orlov, who is capable of doing it, like stats wise. He's not 5'6 and 140 pounds. um
00:09:13
Two Man Forecheck
But they just don't play that way.
00:09:13
Chris
Fair enough, but...
00:09:18
Two Man Forecheck
um
00:09:18
Chris
No, but it's coming back to haunt them. If they don't learn how to play that way quickly, they're going to be out, especially since they're down 3-0.
00:09:25
Two Man Forecheck
But I don't even know if they're built for it. Like, and when I say built for it, I mean, both the roster construction as a whole and their, and like the, the gray matter stuff, like,
00:09:29
Chris
That's what I was just saying. They're not.
00:09:41
Chris
Everybody talks about how hockey is going to a more finesse game. I'm sorry, but if you don't play physical, you're still not going to be successful. Edmonton, for the most part, I'd like to think is a finesse team.
00:09:54
Chris
However, they have as you they have, as you said prior to the show, they have Evander Kane. They have Corey Perry. They have guys that are willing to get physical.
00:10:06
Two Man Forecheck
Like, when you look at the the eight defensemen who Carolina has used in the playoffs this year, now, ah Chatfield has been out for multiple games.
00:10:18
Two Man Forecheck
He's 6'1", 199. Gostas Bear, got Scott Murrow, 210. five eleven one at e three but you've got scott marro two ten 6-2. Niketian, 6-4, Orlov, 5-11, 2-14. Slavin, 2-07. Brent Burns, And then sean Walker, who I believe was also out last game,
00:10:47
Chris
Yeah.
00:10:48
Two Man Forecheck
and these are most of these guys are average or above average size for the league so they should be they should have some success at moving players out of the crease.
00:11:02
Chris
But if they're not used to playing that way, it doesn't matter their size. You could have a sick... I don't see Brent Burns as a physical defenseman.
00:11:10
Two Man Forecheck
Oh, no, no, no, no.
00:11:10
Chris
I never have.
00:11:13
Two Man Forecheck
And this is one of the this is one of the reasons that teams who aren't physical fail in the playoffs because they try to be.
00:11:25
Two Man Forecheck
for whatever period of time.
00:11:26
Chris
Yeah.
00:11:28
Chris
yeah
00:11:29
Two Man Forecheck
And then they go, then they slap, then they snap back to their normal mode of play.
00:11:39
Two Man Forecheck
And the other team goes back to playing their game. You look at the, looking at the hits per 60 for the, for the Canes defense.
00:11:52
Two Man Forecheck
Niketian, who has admittedly only played two games, but he's racked up seven hits in that time. Orlov, who has played pretty every game so far.
00:12:05
Two Man Forecheck
They have him listed at 7.6 hits per 60. Everyone else is like four in change or less. Sean Walker, who's out, 4.34. Jalen Chatfield, 2.94.
00:12:16
Two Man Forecheck
jaylen chatfield two point nine four Um, Goss despair 2.64 and I'm surprised it's that high.
00:12:24
Chris
Yeah, no kidding.
00:12:25
Two Man Forecheck
Scott Morrow, who's only played three games, um, 1.65. Brent Burns, uh, it appears he accidentally made contact, um, 1.42, uh, in his 13th ah
00:12:37
Chris
He bumped into somebody and they gave him credit for a hit.
00:12:37
Two Man Forecheck
in his thirteen
00:12:41
Two Man Forecheck
um And then Jacob Slavin, 23 minutes a night ah ah per game, and he's under a hit per 60.
00:12:53
Chris
but that's But that's making my point, is that just because they have size doesn't mean they're going to be physical.
00:12:54
Two Man Forecheck
Under a hit per 60 minutes.
00:13:02
Chris
They're not. And unfortunately,
00:13:03
Two Man Forecheck
Now, in fairness, Slavin does block a lot of shots.
00:13:08
Chris
yes, but that's different from being physical.
00:13:11
Two Man Forecheck
It is. It is a different beast, um but you need to balance both in order to be a high-end defenseman. um Jacob Slavin doesn't I'm sorry?
00:13:23
Chris
But I consider him a high end defenseman.
00:13:29
Two Man Forecheck
I'm sorry.
00:13:29
Chris
Jacobs, I consider Jacob
Rod Brindamore's Coaching Future
00:13:31
Chris
Slavin a high end defenseman. He's he would be if I were starting a team, I would choose him as one of my top six.
00:13:40
Two Man Forecheck
I'm not sure I would at this point. Um,
00:13:43
Chris
As he has he passed this point of usefulness.
00:13:48
Two Man Forecheck
I think the lack of physicality for, for me is one of those things that would make me, it would probably take me my second pass through the league in order to get to him.
00:13:58
Chris
Really?
00:14:00
Two Man Forecheck
I don't hate him, but if you're saying just six defensemen, uh, I mean, there's three guys on the Panthers I'd want to take first.
00:14:14
Chris
Okay.
00:14:16
Two Man Forecheck
um But like Sean Walker, Sean Walker's a pretty balanced at 4.34 hits and 4.3 blocks per 60. He's doing what he can. Orlov at 3.59 and Jalen Chatfield's 3.59 as well.
00:14:26
Chris
Okay.
00:14:27
Two Man Forecheck
he's doing what he can ah or love is that three point five nine and jalen chatfields a three point five nine blog as well
00:14:36
Chris
I mean, Sean Walker's a get. I liked him when he was with l L.A.
00:14:41
Two Man Forecheck
Um, but overall, this team has the big lack that I've seen in the Boston Bruins in the last three or four years.
00:14:53
Two Man Forecheck
They don't have enough guys who hate losing.
00:14:59
Two Man Forecheck
Liking to win is one thing. Hating to lose is another. In the playoffs, hating to lose is more important.
00:15:09
Chris
Do they push back? and See, I haven't seen evidence that this is going to happen, so I sadly think that they're going to get bounced in four.
00:15:21
Chris
But do they have enough in them that they could push back and actually win one and try to make a series of it?
00:15:32
Two Man Forecheck
they are going to have to get... They're going to have to somehow be very physical, stay out of the box, and get up two or three goals early.
00:15:44
Chris
And therein lies the difference because there's being physical and then there's being stupid stupid physical.
00:15:49
Two Man Forecheck
A meathead.
00:15:52
Chris
or
00:15:53
Two Man Forecheck
A dumb grunt.
00:15:57
Two Man Forecheck
You can't be...
00:15:57
Chris
Because you can be physical without getting yourself two minutes every time you do it.
00:16:03
Two Man Forecheck
in there.
00:16:04
Chris
Or more.
00:16:07
Chris
and and And Florida has that in spades. I mean, they have players who know how to be physical without doing too much to get themselves trapped for two minutes inside a little box.
00:16:25
Chris
They, Matthew Kachuk just knows, he knows how to be physical without going overboard, without getting himself a penalty.
00:16:25
Two Man Forecheck
um
00:16:34
Chris
But they have a lot of players like that on the Panthers.
00:16:39
Two Man Forecheck
And that's that's one of the big differences is that the the Panthers are guys who largely just walk the edge by habit and probably have been since they were three years old.
00:16:53
Two Man Forecheck
um The Carolina Hurricanes are a team full of kids who started coloring inside the lines and probably cried every time they crossed one with their crayons.
00:16:54
Chris
So you think this one's up?
00:17:06
Chris
Well, they've been crying inside the lines for a while now, unfortunately. So you think it's over in four as well?
00:17:16
Two Man Forecheck
I would like, i if the Panthers stay healthy and don't get sloppy and stupid, yes, it's over and for. But I think that this is a series that's unfortunately going to be determined by one team and not two teams.
00:17:35
Chris
Okay.
00:17:36
Two Man Forecheck
And that team is the Florida Panthers. Yes, the Carolina Hurricanes are present and on the ice.
00:17:44
Two Man Forecheck
They are indeed attempting to win,
00:17:49
Two Man Forecheck
the difference between the two teams is ridiculous. um
00:17:53
Chris
Anderson will be back in net for game four. I'm pretty sure of that.
00:17:59
Chris
I think, like you said, Kachekov.
00:17:59
Two Man Forecheck
Yes. And Kacheco played two and a half good periods.
00:18:01
Chris
Kachekov starting game.
00:18:03
Two Man Forecheck
Yeah.
00:18:05
Chris
Yeah, but I don't think they'll go back to him. I think in a game four situation where it's an elimination, they're going to want Anderson in that if he's healthy.
00:18:16
Chris
I think Brendan is going to go back to him. I think Kachetkov was kind of like a message to the team and trying to spark something.
00:18:26
Two Man Forecheck
Oh, absolutely. it was.
00:18:27
Chris
I think that they go back to Anderson.
00:18:27
Two Man Forecheck
mean.
00:18:31
Chris
I think that they're going to come out gangbusters in the first 10 minutes of the game, trying to score the first goal, maybe even the first two goals.
00:18:44
Chris
And if they don't have a lead by the end of the first half of the first period, they're going to settle into this malaise of playing just enough to keep it close.
00:18:55
Two Man Forecheck
i mean Game four playbook for me, for if I'm coaching the Carolina Hurricanes, if I'm Rod Brindamore, my drawing board for the first period is go out there and in the first five minutes, at least five, probably 10 shots on the Florida net.
00:19:19
Two Man Forecheck
Absolutely dump the pressure on it. Make them defend. Make them get frustrated.
00:19:29
Chris
Yeah, ah I still think that, unfortunately, this is not going to end well for Carolina.
00:19:37
Two Man Forecheck
No, I mean, and i don't think anyone really predicted Carolina was going to beat Florida in the first place.
00:19:45
Chris
No, but I figured it would go more than four.
00:19:48
Two Man Forecheck
People were expecting it or people were trying to talk it up as going to be competitive.
00:19:49
Chris
That's why I made.
00:19:55
Two Man Forecheck
This has This has had...
00:20:01
Two Man Forecheck
this has had um
00:20:01
Chris
I didn't.
00:20:04
Two Man Forecheck
times where the play where where you're reminded that these teams are in the same league, but
00:20:06
Chris
Excuse me.
00:20:10
Two Man Forecheck
b sometimes they're only playing the same sport.
00:20:13
Chris
They're in the same league.
00:20:16
Chris
They're playing the same sport. They're in the same league, but they're not in the same class.
00:20:25
Two Man Forecheck
um So that brings me to the big question that might impact the Boston Bruins.
00:20:35
Chris
Okay.
00:20:38
Two Man Forecheck
This team is almost certainly going to get swept again in the conference finals.
00:20:47
Chris
Yeah.
00:20:49
Two Man Forecheck
a is Rod Brindamore safe?
00:20:55
Two Man Forecheck
And B, what do you think of him as a future Bruins coach?
00:21:04
Chris
Ugh.
00:21:10
Chris
I think that Bryndamore has been there a good long time. And the fact that he hasn't been able to nudge them or convince them to get past or out of their own way.
00:21:26
Chris
He may find himself the victim of change for the sake of change. Something's gone wrong. We can't change the players, so we're going to change the coach.
00:21:40
Two Man Forecheck
I would word it differently. i i think that the...
00:21:46
Two Man Forecheck
think that Brindamore might actually be safe simply because the general manager would have to admit that he doesn't know how to build a team.
00:21:58
Two Man Forecheck
Because it's there's not it's not like there are players who are well-known for... pushback and throwing the body and being aggressive even when the team is down.
00:22:12
Two Man Forecheck
This is a... These are the Stepford hockey players, unfortunately, from from the top of the roster to the bottom of the roster. And that that's really only... You can really only blame one person for that.
00:22:27
Chris
the problem The problem is, the
00:22:27
Two Man Forecheck
However tough a coach may be, however doctrinal a coach may be,
00:22:33
Chris
problem is Eric Tull...
00:22:33
Two Man Forecheck
The players are the player. though You are ah you are who you are when you arrive.
00:22:38
Chris
Okay.
00:22:39
Two Man Forecheck
And none of these players have that line stepper but boundary pusher reputation.
00:22:47
Chris
I would agree with that statement, except for the fact that Tulski has only been in the job for a year.
00:22:59
Chris
So Tulski kept... Tulski has been in the job literally a year. A year yesterday, May 24th, 2024, he took over.
00:23:11
Chris
And he kept Brindamore.
00:23:15
Chris
So for him to admit, as you say, that he made a mistake or he doesn't know how to run a team... a First of all, he kept somebody else's coach. He didn't bring in his own guy.
00:23:31
Chris
I think that this being unsuccessful attempt at winning a Stanley Cup, he's going to say to himself or to the team or to whoever wants to listen, hey, I took over the job.
00:23:46
Chris
I gave the guy a chance to show me what he can do. We didn't get there. Now I'm bringing in my own guy. And nobody's going to fault him for that. So, yeah, Brindamore might be saved, but I think this is a chance for Tulski to clean a little house and bring in his own guy, whoever that may be, whether he goes shopping in the retread market or whether he goes looking for a new name.
00:24:13
Chris
Maybe he's had a name in mind and he figured he'd give Brindamore one more shot.
00:24:21
Chris
But I think that because of the fact that Tulski hasn't been there long, It gives him the opportunity to make the changes he wants to make.
00:24:33
Chris
And the owner is not going to, I don't think the owner is going to, who is Tom Dundon?
00:24:39
Two Man Forecheck
Yeah.
00:24:40
Chris
I don't think Dundon's going to, he just replaced him. I don't think he's going to turn around and fire Tulsky because they made the conference finals.
00:24:45
Two Man Forecheck
No, I...
00:24:48
Chris
I think that he's going to,
00:24:49
Two Man Forecheck
I had forgotten that this was a new GM, but I still feel like...
00:24:56
Two Man Forecheck
So, assuming assuming he does get dumped, what do you think of as a potential Bruins head coach?
00:25:05
Chris
Oh, i
00:25:10
Chris
Again, don't like retreads and the fact that he hasn't been able to get Carolina to seal the deal.
00:25:21
Two Man Forecheck
But we've talked about the lack of star power on this roster for 10 years, like literally 10 years before Brindamore, before the last PM.
00:25:30
Chris
i don't see Bryndamore wanting to come here, but...
00:25:35
Chris
And I think it starts there. I mean, before you start asking whether he'd be a Bruins coach, I think the question to ask is, does Brendamore want to come to a situation where they're rebuilding? He's been through that.
00:25:50
Chris
He does that all the time in Carolina.
00:25:50
Two Man Forecheck
He has.
00:25:57
Chris
So i don't I don't know that he comes here.
00:25:57
Two Man Forecheck
um let's... I don't know if he comes here either. Let me ponder that for a second.
00:26:09
Two Man Forecheck
When you come right down to it, though, I think that the... Brindamore question is... two part when it comes to the Boston Bruins.
00:26:20
Two Man Forecheck
One, what are they going to do this off season to entice him? And two, is it a short rebuild? Is it a medium rebuild? um Or is it going to be one of those forever rebuilds like the 10 or 12 year cycle that the Oilers had before they got to the playoffs and made it out of the first round?
00:26:41
Two Man Forecheck
ah Cause if it's a short or a medium rebuild, I can't see him being strong. um
Stanley Cup Finalists Predictions
00:26:49
Two Man Forecheck
turned off by it. um If it's but's going to be one of those endless cycles of not even mediocrity, but absolute garbage.
00:27:01
Two Man Forecheck
Yeah, no one no one useful wants that.
00:27:01
Chris
But if that's, I mean, and I don't think Bruins fans will allow
00:27:11
Chris
the organization to have a never ending rebuild. I did. Unfortunately, Boston is an original six market. It's not the biggest market, but it's not a small market by any stretch.
00:27:26
Chris
And I just don't... This fan base is too... too rabid a fan base to just put up with just getting by.
00:27:39
Two Man Forecheck
Oh, I remember the last three years before, three, four years before the Bruins won the cup in 11, you could buy last minute tickets almost anywhere in the garden um and just show up.
00:27:56
Chris
Uh-huh.
00:27:56
Two Man Forecheck
um And there were there were, you know, 10, 12% of the arena oh open, even if it was a Habs game.
00:28:08
Chris
Yeah, and that's...
00:28:11
Two Man Forecheck
If that happens again, i'm I'm going to feel almost bad for whoever whoever is general manager at the time because it took years to get that bad and for the fans to get that disgusted.
00:28:25
Two Man Forecheck
um And it takes a long time without winning the cup to get that loyalty back. Yeah.
00:28:36
Chris
So does Brindamore come here? i don't think so. i just, like you said, two part question. But for me, it's a two part question because it's not just one that you ask the Bruins. It's one that A, do the Bruins want him? b does he want to be here? And I think the answer to A is Don Sweeney doesn't know. Because what he's,
00:29:00
Chris
according to stories, he's interviewing like 15 people, but nothing's been done. In the meantime, coaches are coming off the books. In fact, uh, I read Blaschel's gone.
00:29:13
Chris
Not that I wanted Jeff Blaschel, but Chicago grabbed him.
00:29:15
Two Man Forecheck
No.
00:29:18
Two Man Forecheck
and No, just no.
00:29:19
Chris
So, and he's, and he's one of the people that Don supposedly talked to.
00:29:24
Two Man Forecheck
but
00:29:24
Chris
And the, and to me,
00:29:25
Two Man Forecheck
at this At this point, I think Don Sweeney has interviewed everyone he's run into at the grocery store. so
00:29:30
Chris
But that's my point is if Brendamore suddenly becomes available, it's going to be like, what? I'm added to the list of has-beens and never-was and maybes that – I just don't see it.
00:29:48
Chris
I don't see Brendamore coming. I'm telling you that if he doesn't go after somebody like a Sturm, somebody like ah ah college coach who hasn't – going after another retread is not going to satiate the Bruins fans' desire.
00:30:05
Two Man Forecheck
Well, I don't think any of the retreads left would do it, but I think that there are some experienced NHL coaches um who the Bruins could go after and make the fan base happy.
00:30:16
Two Man Forecheck
But I don't know how many of them are available right now, except for maybe John Tortorella. But that's, I don't see that happening.
00:30:24
Two Man Forecheck
um
00:30:24
Chris
And i would I would love to have him here.
00:30:26
Chris
I think he's, again, we've talked about so many times, you know he's gold. But I don't know if, i I would wonder how well he'd fit here because depending on what kind of a locker room we've got left.
00:30:37
Two Man Forecheck
i
00:30:40
Two Man Forecheck
I can't see him and Sweeney getting along though. That's that's the bigger issue.
00:30:45
Chris
Yeah, that's a problem too, yeah. He'd be too much, but unfortunately, he'd be too much for Sweeney. He wouldn't put up with Sweeney's crap and Sweeney being the boss would be like, well, then you can just go. Yeah.
00:31:00
Two Man Forecheck
ah Let's take a look at the West. um This is one of those styles make fights matchup.
00:31:08
Chris
Yeah.
00:31:10
Two Man Forecheck
Looking at the two teams, I would say that ah you're if you're going to compare them to mix to martial arts, whether it's pure boxing or mixed martial arts, I would say that Dallas is defensively better, more structured, and has a still has a mean punch.
00:31:33
Two Man Forecheck
but that and that Edmonton is faster has longer reach um better striker better offensively but also has a glass jaw and that's really the tale of the two games like game one Edmonton comes out three goals Boom.
00:32:00
Two Man Forecheck
And they sit on the lead and they skate circles around Dallas for a little while.
00:32:06
Chris
They don't have a defense.
00:32:06
Two Man Forecheck
And then all of a sudden third period starts. Dallas gets inside their guard, starts wailing, and it was all over.
00:32:19
Chris
So, and to use your boxing or fighting comparison, Edmonton is just a
00:32:32
Two Man Forecheck
Edmonton's a finesse fighter.
00:32:32
Chris
boxer punt.
00:32:34
Chris
Edmonton's a boxer-puncher, and Dallas is the more trained, knows how to defend, knows how knows how to work their way inside, willing to go 12 rounds as opposed to trying to get the knockout in two rounds.
00:32:56
Two Man Forecheck
Yeah, that's that's fair.
00:32:58
Chris
Okay. Because I'm just... I still don't. edmonton Edmonton does not... ah Excuse me. Edmonton is not made up to sit on a lead.
00:33:14
Two Man Forecheck
No, they're not.
00:33:15
Chris
I'm sorry.
00:33:16
Two Man Forecheck
They just are not.
00:33:16
Chris
Edmonton jumps out to a lead 3-0 tries to sit on it. They're not made up to sit on a lead. They can't sit on 3 3-1, They on lead They're going to lose like they did to Dallas.
00:33:28
Chris
they're going to lose just like they did to dallas Six to three, five to three. And I know the game was six to three, but they just, they, they're not built that way.
00:33:40
Chris
They need to keep punching.
00:33:40
Two Man Forecheck
I.
00:33:41
Chris
They need to keep scoring because they don't have the backend to solidify sitting on a lead.
00:33:54
Two Man Forecheck
i
00:33:55
Chris
That, that makes sense.
00:33:56
Two Man Forecheck
yeah Oh, absolutely. It's...
00:34:01
Chris
They have to keep punching. They have to keep fighting until they get that knockout because they can't they can't win on style points.
00:34:07
Two Man Forecheck
I mean, if you're if you want to use a different ah slightly different analogy to compare the two teams... The Dallas Stars are a hurricane and the Edmonton Oilers are a tornado.
00:34:22
Two Man Forecheck
Both are terrifying, but one is over in minutes.
00:34:29
Chris
Yes. Okay, I can see that.
00:34:32
Two Man Forecheck
um Yes,
00:34:33
Chris
I mean, you can stick with the boxing analogy and you can have the one that has to win by knockout, whereas Dallas is the one that can actually win on points going the distance.
00:34:42
Two Man Forecheck
yes. yes um i think I think comparing the East and the West series is fascinating.
00:34:47
Chris
And that's...
00:34:52
Two Man Forecheck
And whatever happens in these two series, and we i think everyone almost everyone is sure that Florida is going to advance.
00:34:52
Chris
Well...
00:35:00
Chris
Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:03
Two Man Forecheck
The Stanley Cup final has the potential to either be 100% flat or a really skilled, like a really... interesting styles clash because i think even dallas even florida dallas you've got a little bit of that they play a little bit differently um dallas i think
00:35:26
Chris
but dallas But Dallas isn't Carolina. dallas has Dallas is not afraid to play physical.
00:35:35
Chris
Jamie Benn and even even to an extent, Tyler Sagan. Yeah.
00:35:41
Two Man Forecheck
And Tyler Sagan skating since his hip surgeries might have added three more years to his career because he had that breakaway the other night.
00:35:48
Chris
Yeah.
00:35:51
Two Man Forecheck
And I tweeted at the time, he legitimately looked like 2011, maybe not quite as fast, but far, far closer than he's looked any time in the past six or seven years.
00:36:02
Chris
But Dallas is not going to...
00:36:05
Two Man Forecheck
Dallas is not going to go away.
00:36:07
Chris
Dallas is... No, I'm... Florida... My apologies. Florida is not going to intimidate Dallas the way they intimidate Carolina.
00:36:17
Two Man Forecheck
Correct. I don't think they i don't think Edmonton is going to be would be intimidated either. They went seven games with them. That series still could have gone either way last year.
00:36:29
Chris
No, and you added a guy like like you said. you added and you You added Trent Frederick, who has a little bit of brusqueness in him. A little bit of grit, sandpaper, whatever term you want to use.
00:36:43
Chris
So, yeah, they're not they're not going to be afraid of them either, Evander Kane and Corey Perry. I just... I don't see Edmonton getting past Dallas this time.
00:36:57
Chris
ah They're not going to surprise them. like
00:37:02
Two Man Forecheck
This is the best balanced Edmonton Oilers team we've ever seen.
00:37:09
Chris
In a long time. Yeah, ever. Yeah.
00:37:13
Two Man Forecheck
In the lifetime of any of the players on the roster, it is the best player. I mean, well, maybe not Corey Perry, but um certainly anyone who's core player.
00:37:25
Two Man Forecheck
Absolutely 25, 30 years.
00:37:25
Chris
No, but how balanced were how bounds were Gretzky's teams? Or were they still offensively minded? And Grant Fuhrer, who would step up in the playoffs, but for the most part was almost an average goaltender.
00:37:40
Two Man Forecheck
Yeah. I think that, and I'm not saying that this is a great defensive team in Edmonton because they're not, um but it's the closest thing to a
00:37:56
Two Man Forecheck
cup-worthy defense that we've seen. this it In a way, it actually remind they actually remind me a little bit of the Osgood Cup...
00:38:07
Two Man Forecheck
um Wings, their defense isn't as sound.
00:38:11
Chris
Uh-huh.
00:38:13
Two Man Forecheck
They're probably more likely to throw punches, at least the middle sixes. um But definitely a little both skilled.
00:38:29
Two Man Forecheck
If you're to to continue the martial arts enthusiasm,
00:38:30
Chris
I think, yeah.
00:38:34
Two Man Forecheck
if
00:38:34
Chris
Mm-hmm.
00:38:37
Two Man Forecheck
Dreisaitl and mcdavid are your high-end rifles trent frederick and evander kane are your close-in ugly knife fighters and they're gonna gut you if you stay if you get too close and it's that whole middle six that whole bottom six really for them uh
00:39:01
Chris
But i think dallas I think Dallas is... I think Florida and Dallas mirror each other more than we want to think they do.
00:39:11
Two Man Forecheck
Um, yes and no. i think that, I think that Dallas is not as big, um with or their stars aren't as big.
00:39:22
Chris
No, and and to be honest, I don't think Jason Robertson's that physical guy. you know he He's not. He's the finesse goal scorer. yeah Ropey Hintz has got a little bit of grit in him, but certainly not to the extent of a Trent Frederick. i think they both I think Dallas and Florida both have their finesse players that go out and score goals, and they both have
NHL Draft and Player Development Issues
00:39:48
Chris
their knife fighters, as you put it.
00:39:52
Chris
I think Florida has more of the latter
00:39:58
Chris
I think more people on Florida are willing to be knife fighters.
00:39:59
Two Man Forecheck
hey I would say that Florida is... Florida's axemen. They literally just... You're going to get hurt as much by the cut as by the raw force of the hit.
00:40:13
Two Man Forecheck
um It's...
00:40:15
Chris
I just...
00:40:17
Two Man Forecheck
You watch Kachuk, you watch Bennett, you watch Mikola...
00:40:23
Two Man Forecheck
Mikko Mikolov, and they're just... They're coming for your head.
00:40:31
Two Man Forecheck
Like every game, every shift, they want to decapitate you and leave you on the ice in a mess.
00:40:38
Chris
And I understand that. I just don't think that they're going to be able to intimidate Dallas. I don't think they'd be. it Whoever they play out of the West. And I think that Dallas Edmonton is going at least six, if not all the way to seven.
00:40:55
Chris
But whoever Florida plays from the West, either team is not going to be intimidated the way Carolina has been.
00:41:07
Chris
Edmonton has already been there. they've seen you know They've been to the puppet show. They've seen the strings. They know what Florida's like.
00:41:16
Chris
Dallas hasn't played them in the playoffs, but I don't think that they're ah team that just i don't think they're a team that just rolls over and plays dead. i don't think I think that they're going to put up a fight as well. So...
00:41:33
Chris
whoever Florida has to play, and unfortunately I'm talking like Florida's already won it, but if you look at the way that the series has gone, they have already won it.
00:41:44
Two Man Forecheck
As much as i I hate to say it, and I think that it's largely an overblown type of statement, the Florida Panthers won the seven-game series in the first two games.
00:41:57
Chris
Yeah.
00:42:00
Chris
So I think that I'm just... I know I've got a bias against Edmonton. i'm So I apologize if I sound like I'm pushing more for Dallas. It's because I am. i just I'm not a huge Edmonton fan. I don't like the way that team is built.
00:42:15
Chris
Multiple GMs have tried over the past decade. And up until now, and nothing. you know they've It's been hockey team al dente.
00:42:28
Chris
Throw against the wall, see what sticks. We're going to try going all out on offense. We're going to draft nothing but forwards and with our number one picks. Some stuck, some didn't. Nugent Hopkins took a longer time. He was on a slow boil, but now we're seeing the skill that he actually possesses.
00:42:47
Chris
Finally.
00:42:47
Two Man Forecheck
Nugent Hopkins, I am still irritated on his behalf that he was put right into the NHL. He was not physically ready.
00:42:55
Chris
i mean He never should have been. He wasn't physically ready. He wasn't size. I mean, just size-wise, he I don't think he was ready.
00:43:01
Two Man Forecheck
And the shoulder injuries he had in his first three, four seasons, just show it and prove it.
00:43:06
Chris
Could have been avoided.
00:43:08
Two Man Forecheck
If he had had even one more year, either in the AHL or back in major junior, probably two years before hitting the NHL, they would not have had the opportunity to make some of those later higher draft picks because he would have been a better player coming in healthier, a year or two older, five, seven pounds heavier.
00:43:31
Two Man Forecheck
um
00:43:33
Chris
But they might have missed out on McXavier.
00:43:36
Two Man Forecheck
the Definitely true, but they still would have picked up some quality. It would have had the opportunity to pick up some quality players.
00:43:43
Chris
Yes.
00:43:44
Two Man Forecheck
Um,
00:43:45
Chris
i just i don't like the way I just don't like the way it's been done in Edmonton. i don't think that i guess I guess what I'm saying is it's not really their fault, but watching it over time, I think that whoever was in charge was setting them back instead of pushing them forward.
00:44:06
Two Man Forecheck
i i ah In cases where it's that consistently bad, i always have to wonder how much of it is the person in the corner office and how much of it is the person in the owner's suite.
00:44:19
Two Man Forecheck
And for various reasons, i I think that there was a lot of owner non-smart um in that era.
00:44:31
Chris
Food for thought, question for thought. It doesn't have to be answered now. just If the Pagoulas were running Edmonton, how much different would it have been?
00:44:40
Two Man Forecheck
The goalers were running Edmonton. um
00:44:44
Chris
There would have been more GMs over the last 10 years, or more head coaches anyway.
00:44:46
Two Man Forecheck
There would have been more GMs over the last 10 years, and um the Nuge would have had to hold out to get the surgery that he wanted before being traded anyways.
00:45:00
Chris
Good point.
00:45:03
Chris
So, brings us to, I guess, the last question. Dallas or Edmonton?
00:45:12
Two Man Forecheck
Um,
00:45:16
Two Man Forecheck
I'm going to go with Edmonton. I think that they've just started games better and playing catch up hockey all the time is largely losing hockey.
00:45:20
Chris
Okay.
00:45:28
Chris
And yes, my bias is going to take over, and I'm going to say Dallas. and just I like Dallas better.
00:45:33
Two Man Forecheck
Um,
00:45:35
Chris
i think that they have I think they can match Edmonton's ability to put the puck in the net, and I think that at some point, dish the Edmonton shortcomings at the back end are going to come back to haunt them.
00:45:52
Two Man Forecheck
So just just to roll roll it back a little bit, Ryan Nugent Hopkins went first overall in the 2011 draft.
00:46:01
Chris
yeah
00:46:01
Two Man Forecheck
um The next year, they got Neil Yakupov, who was a swing and a miss. He was a consensus swing and a miss, but he was a swing and a miss. The year after that, they got Darnell Nurse.
00:46:16
Two Man Forecheck
And then 2014 Dreisaitl, and um was McDavid.
00:46:27
Chris
okay
00:46:27
Two Man Forecheck
From what we saw, if Ryan Nugent Hopkins had spent the 2012 season back with the Red Deer Rebels and the 2012-2013 season with, I'm sorry, the 2013-2014 season with their AHL affiliate, they're probably still drafting Dreisaitl and McDavid.
00:46:45
Chris
Yeah.
00:46:50
Chris
Wow. Okay.
00:46:52
Two Man Forecheck
And he, I mean, he had two full seasons before the two of them came in. Both McDavid and Dreisaitl have had injuries.
00:47:05
Two Man Forecheck
um
00:47:13
Two Man Forecheck
I don't think anyone's actually played more games than me than than the Nuge from that draft.
00:47:20
Chris
See, I'm wondering, I'm wondering, the expectation is that when you draft number one, that player is going to
00:47:20
Two Man Forecheck
But
00:47:32
Chris
make the friend make the organization. It's expected that they are going to be playing that season.
00:47:41
Chris
And that expectation is what put Nugent Hopkins
00:47:42
Two Man Forecheck
But I don't think...
00:47:46
Chris
on the Edmonton Oilers because we drafted him number one overall. He has to play. You can't take a number one overall pick and stick him in the minors or send him back.
00:47:52
Two Man Forecheck
and
00:47:56
Two Man Forecheck
I think that you can, and I think that you should, and I've always hated that mentality.
00:47:56
Chris
Why are we taking him number one?
00:48:02
Chris
but that I'm not a big fan of it either, but that being said, the prevailing belief is that you've chosen this particular person number one They're going to play.
00:48:16
Chris
That's why you're choosing them number one, because they have the talent level that they are going to play.
00:48:23
Two Man Forecheck
I mean, you look at that draft class, Nugent Hopkins is only fourth in scoring, and fourth in points for that class. And that's with Kucherov having played 156 games less and having almost like 200 points more. Kucherov has 994 points 803 games.
00:48:38
Two Man Forecheck
Shifley, 804 in 879.
00:48:42
Two Man Forecheck
kura has nine hundred and ninety four points in eight hundred and three games um shali eight zero four in eight seventy nine Huberto, 782 and 912.
00:48:58
Two Man Forecheck
And Nugent Hopkins, 748 and 959. You can't tell me if he hadn't been injured as much as he was in those first couple of years that his points per game wouldn't be better.
00:49:13
Two Man Forecheck
you're never going to but You're never going to convince me of that.
00:49:16
Chris
I'm not going to try to.
00:49:18
Two Man Forecheck
He only got into 62 games in his first season.
00:49:19
Chris
Because I agree with you.
00:49:22
Two Man Forecheck
Um,
00:49:23
Chris
I'm just telling you what the prevailing belief is when you draft a player number one. and And it's in all sports. It's not just hockey.
00:49:31
Two Man Forecheck
yeah, but hockey is different than most other sports.
00:49:32
Chris
The prevailing belief in sports is if you're... The prevailing belief in sports is that if you're drafting this kid as the first overall pick...
00:49:35
Two Man Forecheck
It,
00:49:40
Two Man Forecheck
Yeah, but that first that that opinion is largely shaped by the media. And most of them are not athletic enough to actually play at the major league level, not smart enough to go into science and not and not correct charismatic enough to get ah rich going into politics. Why are we listening to them?
00:50:00
Chris
I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm explaining to you how it works. that's just It's just the way it is. I'm not saying it's right because I think it's wrong.
00:50:13
Chris
If there's any sport that understands it, it's probably baseball because they're the least, that's where it's least likely that the number one player is suddenly going to be in the major leagues.
00:50:24
Chris
They, they have no qualms about sending that kid to double a, whatever Durham or Providence or wherever.
00:50:32
Two Man Forecheck
That's ah baseball is so weird. I, I sometimes forget it's considered a major sport.
00:50:35
Chris
Right. Right.
00:50:38
Chris
Weird, not weird, whatever, but they're not against sending a number one pick to the minors. Whereas in the other three sports, basketball, football, hockey, you draft a number one, they're expected to play on the big club day one.
00:50:57
Chris
I'm not saying it's right. I think it's wrong. I think you're setting up a youngster, especially somebody who's just turned 18 and isn't fully developed to play in the sport in which he's chosen.
00:51:10
Chris
he need Most of them need to develop body strength and they need to catch up to the actual game speed of the NHL. And you're ramping them up from... the OHL with other 16, 17-year-olds, and some that are older, yes, but it's still not NHL speed, and you're skipping a whole step where the AHL is, and you're promoting them to this big club where everything's faster, stronger, bigger, rougher.
00:51:39
Chris
I mean, look at Matt Potra.
00:51:40
Two Man Forecheck
and
00:51:42
Two Man Forecheck
and And the other aspect of it is you're talking about you're going from being a leader and one of the older guys as an 18-year-old in the OHL or the USHL or wherever it is to being the youngest guy on the roster, having no effectively no real peers, real peers,
00:51:43
Chris
Hasn't played...
00:51:55
Chris
to carrying other people's bags.
00:52:03
Two Man Forecheck
there's There's a lot to it. you're whether you want to Whether teams want to admit it or not, or locker rooms want to admit it or not, you come in as an 18-year-old onto a team with a bunch of 25, 27, 33-year-olds who are married and have kids almost your age, you're an outsider.
00:52:25
Two Man Forecheck
They may include you in a lot of stuff, but your worldview is very different because your life experience is very different. Um, and there's, I mean, you heard, you heard the interview as well as I did when Tyler Sagan, if I, after five years in Dallas was asked what he would do differently, if he were drafted to Boston again, he would say, i get married earlier.
00:52:35
Chris
Wow.
00:52:52
Two Man Forecheck
Um, because it was just a different,
00:53:00
Two Man Forecheck
people are living different lives. Your 35 year old ah professional athlete who's been a pro for 10, 12, 14 years. If your head's not in a different space than an 18 year old who was doing high school algebra, uh, seven weeks before there's a, there's a, there's a bigger issue with the 30 year old than there is with the 18 year old.
Dallas's 'Finnish Five' Strategy
00:53:26
Chris
So and real just as ah kind as a segue, because it connects, Dallas is doing something that feels like it's they're copying something from days gone by.
00:53:26
Two Man Forecheck
Um,
00:53:45
Chris
Because back, as you mentioned, with the Osgoode era in Detroit and before that with Mike Vernon, the Red Wings won their Stanley Cup with the Russian Five. Larionov, Batisov, Konstantinov, Kozlov, and Fedorov.
00:54:03
Chris
This year's version of that, however, slightly different. Because Dallas has the Finnish Five.
00:54:13
Chris
And I didn't even stop to think about this, but you've got Mikko Rantanen,
00:54:22
Chris
Miro Haskinen, Esa Lindell, Rope Hintz, and ah what's the last one?
00:54:31
Chris
don't remember his name.
00:54:33
Two Man Forecheck
Esselindo?
00:54:35
Chris
Esa Lindell is the Esa Lindell I mentioned. But, I mean, they've got their own. Oh, Michael Granlund, who they acquired from the Sharks.
00:54:44
Two Man Forecheck
OK.
00:54:46
Chris
And my first thought was, but they don't really, they're not really on the ice together, but they could be because Grandlin's a center. Hintz and Rantanen are both wings, although Hintz listed as a center or can be a center.
00:55:02
Chris
And then you got Lindell and Heiskanen as defense, but DeBoer isn't playing them as such. they But they're still key to Dallas' success. In game one, where they won 6-3 with Edmonton doing their thing, and they recorded seven points.
00:55:20
Two Man Forecheck
Yep. yep
00:55:23
Chris
So, as this article, and I i got it from the hockey writers, somebody named Zach Berda, who brought this to light, they're actually the key, or...
00:55:38
Chris
the most important key as far as their success. Now, I tend to think that defense and goaltending is still my key to success in the playoffs. If you can't stop the other team, you can't keep the puck out of your own net.
00:55:52
Chris
It doesn't matter who you have on the ice, but I guess Detroit disproved that. Vernon was a really good goaltender during his time with the Red Wings. Osgood, as you like to say, was an okay goaltender. and Personally, I think he's better than you think he is, but
00:56:08
Two Man Forecheck
No, he's not.
00:56:08
Chris
i His numbers weren't the strongest, so I don't have a whole leg to stand on, but I have half a leg.
00:56:18
Chris
ah How important do you think these five guys are to them beating Edmonton and and and possibly winning a cup in Dallas?
00:56:27
Two Man Forecheck
I think that you can make the case that that's their core five, or you want to throw Ottinger in there, their core six. I don't know that...
00:56:41
Two Man Forecheck
I'm not 100% convinced that identifying why a team works is as simple as pointing to the most effective player at each position.
00:56:55
Two Man Forecheck
Because a lot of it is the intangibles.
00:57:01
Chris
now
00:57:01
Two Man Forecheck
Mm-hmm.
00:57:01
Chris
Now Lindell and Heiskanen are a defense pair. They play together.
00:57:05
Two Man Forecheck
hu
00:57:06
Chris
And Esselindell allows Mira Heiskanen to be more offensive. He's one of the best two-way defensemen in the NHL. But having Esselindell as his partner allows him to be more offensive-minded when he needs to be.
00:57:15
Two Man Forecheck
Mm-hmm. huh
00:57:23
Chris
Rope Hintz in 15 playoff games has 11 points, 5 goals, 6 assists.
00:57:30
Chris
I mean, the coach leans on it. I just think that it's almost like they're trying to recreate what Detroit was able to do in a different time back in the late 90s.
00:57:46
Chris
Mid to late ninety s
00:57:46
Two Man Forecheck
I don't know if it's actually that deep or if they just have five good players who are all from a nation that doesn't contribute that many players to the league.
00:57:57
Chris
See, I see it. and and And when I read this, I thought it goes deeper than this because, yes, Detroit had the Russian Five, but they also had depth scoring. You had Darren McCarty. You had McCarty. You had Martin LaPointe. You had Chris Draper, who was physical. You had Tomas Holmstrom, who was called Robocop for a reason.
00:58:21
Chris
yeah They had... it They had all the parts they needed. And I think that when you look at Dallas, I think that they have a deep... Because you've got these guys, but then you've got Thomas Harley.
00:58:37
Chris
You've got Jason Robertson. you You've got other parts that fill in those roles.
00:58:44
Two Man Forecheck
Oh, Sam Steele has done some really interesting stuff for the team this year.
00:58:46
Chris
Sam Steele on the fourth line.
00:58:52
Two Man Forecheck
You know who might be the most interesting player on the Dallas Stars this month?
00:59:00
Chris
is
00:59:01
Two Man Forecheck
Lian Bichelle.
00:59:06
Two Man Forecheck
Why? 15
00:59:07
Chris
i was gonna ask that.
00:59:10
Two Man Forecheck
games. Zero points. 26 pims, 11.37 ice time, plus one.
00:59:17
Chris
ah Okay.
00:59:24
Chris
So he's not putting the puck in the net, but he's still playing
00:59:28
Two Man Forecheck
you've got You've got guys like Ilya Labushkin and Jamie Benn who are a minus seven each in the postseason.
00:59:40
Chris
Ouch.
00:59:41
Two Man Forecheck
You got guys like Matt Deshane and Wyatt Johnston who are a minus 13 and a minus 15 throughout the playoffs.
00:59:51
Chris
Which sucks because I love Wyatt Johnston.
00:59:51
Two Man Forecheck
Thomas Harley. Thomas Harley, 11 points, minus six.
01:00:05
Two Man Forecheck
I don't know what Leon, ah Leon Michelle's recipe is aside from I'm going to occasionally hurt somebody, but he's responsible when he's on the ice.
01:00:06
Chris
Okay.
01:00:14
Chris
He's going to be physical?
01:00:16
Two Man Forecheck
ah
01:00:24
Chris
So do we want to go over the border?
01:00:24
Two Man Forecheck
So.
01:00:25
Chris
Oh...
01:00:27
Two Man Forecheck
We want to go over the border and.
Toronto Maple Leafs Management Changes
01:00:30
Two Man Forecheck
go to the city famous for its climate inversion where the leaves fall in spring?
01:00:38
Chris
ah
01:00:41
Chris
Should I be feeling bad for this guy?
01:00:45
Two Man Forecheck
um I don't know.
01:00:47
Chris
Or should he be thankful that he doesn't have to worry about this anymore?
01:00:47
Two Man Forecheck
the
01:00:53
Two Man Forecheck
um We all know Biz Nasty is a Diehard Leafs fan.
01:01:02
Chris
Oh, you're going that way first. I thought we were going to the... Okay. Go ahead.
01:01:08
Two Man Forecheck
So, last night on Twitter, probably almost certainly while watching the ah Florida series, this series makes me want to rerun the core four one more time.
01:01:19
Chris
Yes.
01:01:23
Two Man Forecheck
Who's with me? Leafs forever.
01:01:28
Chris
Paul, sorry. Love you on TNT. Not with you.
01:01:34
Two Man Forecheck
and That's a no from me, dog.
01:01:37
Chris
So ah you got two no votes.
01:01:37
Two Man Forecheck
Matthews.
01:01:40
Chris
You're out. You're out. ah yeah
01:01:43
Two Man Forecheck
Matthews is a goal scorer who doesn't score goals in the playoffs.
01:01:48
Chris
That can be a problem.
01:01:50
Two Man Forecheck
When your whole identity disappears because you went past game 82, either it's not really your identity or you have a problem to correct.
01:02:04
Chris
Or you're Rick Nash.
01:02:08
Two Man Forecheck
Look, I compared Matthews to Rick Nash on the show last week or the week before, and I will stand by it.
01:02:12
Chris
I know. And right now his numbers are bearing that out.
01:02:23
Two Man Forecheck
So i I ran a poll midweek last week.
01:02:28
Two Man Forecheck
If you ran the Leafs forever, which option are you taking? um Move Matthews, but keep Mitch Marner. Keep Mitch Marner, but move Austin Matthews. Keep bold or move on from both.
01:02:42
Two Man Forecheck
You said you were surprised by the results when you saw them. What was the surprise?
01:02:49
Chris
that whoever voted Toronto fans, not Toronto fans, because we don't know what they are, but for them, for, for the number one winner to be move on from both, I would have thought that Leafs fans would want to keep Matthews.
01:02:56
Two Man Forecheck
Mm-hmm.
01:03:10
Chris
I know for whatever reason and whoever started it, I don't know, but
01:03:17
Chris
They don't like Marner in Toronto. They want him gone for whatever reason. and when When I watched Game 7, the whole thing with him yelling at the bench and the comments that were the the the comments that were coming out under the meme were all blaming him for the problems of the Leafs.
01:03:37
Chris
Yeah.
01:03:38
Two Man Forecheck
This goes back to Mike Babcock.
01:03:43
Chris
But the whole Mike Babcock thing wasn't his fault either. Mike's the one who came in and said, I want to see the pictures on your phone like a creep.
01:03:48
Two Man Forecheck
Oh, no, no, no, no. this That was even before that. When Mike Babcock was in Toronto and Mitch Marner was a rookie,
01:03:55
Chris
Oh, that was, I'm sorry. That was Columbus. My apologies. I'm mixing.
01:03:59
Two Man Forecheck
Babcock asked Marner to... write notes about the faults of the other players in the room confidentially. And then he went and read that list out to the locker room.
01:04:09
Chris
Yeah.
01:04:15
Two Man Forecheck
And I think that the fans and some of the players maybe still haven't forgiven him.
01:04:23
Two Man Forecheck
And this is, this is why I would never want Babcock near my team again.
01:04:23
Chris
Oh, part of the problem...
01:04:25
Chris
Go ahead.
01:04:30
Chris
Well, he's just a creep. I wouldn't want him near my team either. And the other thing was with the Columbus Blue Jackets. I'm sorry, I'm confusing his his transgressions with different franchises because he's just, ugh, dripping with yuck.
01:04:46
Chris
First of all, asking a player to tell him about all the bad things with other players on his team.
01:05:01
Chris
He should never have asked it. And to be quite honest, I don't want to blame Marner, but Marner probably should have stuck to his guns and said, I'm not going to do that.
01:05:12
Chris
But then again, if he does, how does that affect his playing time? How does that affect his relationship with whoever?
01:05:19
Two Man Forecheck
I mean, the fact that he asked a question asked the question, a it smells like a trap, and B, if you need a rookie to tell you what's going on in your locker room as a head coach, you're toast.
01:05:20
Chris
I mean,
01:05:35
Two Man Forecheck
You're toast. You don't actually understand what you're supposed to be doing.
01:05:40
Chris
Yeah. Agreed. But unfortunately, yeah, it's come back to haunt him. It hurts him. I mean, he's yelling at the bench to wake the F up.
01:05:50
Chris
And whether they're hearing him or not hearing him or caring or not, the fact is he's out there trying and yet the fan base is getting on him for a yelling at the bench, B, every mistake he makes is the reason why they lost, not the fact that, wait, the team sucks.
01:06:14
Chris
Yeah.
01:06:15
Two Man Forecheck
The team isn't built right. It was built better this year than it has been in the past. It's not, I don't think, it assuming that the Florida Panthers had been abducted by aliens, I don't think they'd have beat the Carolina Hurricanes.
01:06:31
Two Man Forecheck
I don't think, I'm not sure that they would have beaten um Florida. But if they had a different matchup,
01:06:41
Two Man Forecheck
oh I give them a better chance. Florida is the best team in the league again. Yeah.
01:06:48
Chris
da That being said, though, you look at this poll, and the second response tells you that there's still a whole lot of confusion among fans, because yes, the top answer was move on from both 50%. The second answer at 30% was keep both.
01:07:09
Two Man Forecheck
Yeah.
01:07:09
Chris
Well, which is it? Well, which is it?
01:07:13
Two Man Forecheck
um
01:07:16
Two Man Forecheck
I think that's going to depend a lot upon who replaces um Shanahan, ah assuming they decide to replace Shanahan.
01:07:27
Chris
So he's the so he's the one he's the one person who doesn't have to worry about this anymore.
01:07:32
Two Man Forecheck
Now, the Shanna plan was ah supposed to produce a cup or two by now. ah You'll note that the right the last time they... yeah they won a cup has not changed since Shanahan um got here.
01:07:48
Chris
ah No, the they have not surprised they have not they have not snuck a Stanley Cup into the Toronto franchise during his tenure.
01:07:57
Two Man Forecheck
His 11-year tenure.
01:08:01
Two Man Forecheck
um And going way back to when he started there, You had him, Lamorello, and it was Babcock as a three-headed monster.
01:08:17
Two Man Forecheck
i knew it wasn't going to work then.
01:08:21
Chris
Did they get rid of the right person though? Is keeping and whoever the, Tre Living, Tre Living is the GM.
01:08:28
Two Man Forecheck
Brad Treloving.
01:08:32
Chris
Is keeping Tre Living the right answer? I know he's new. They just got him, what, a year ago, two years ago?
01:08:38
Two Man Forecheck
I'm very curious to see what Tri-Living can do when, quite frankly, money isn't an issue beyond staying cap compliant.
01:08:50
Two Man Forecheck
Because to Toronto just has more resources than Tri-Living's last team.
01:08:50
Chris
Two years ago.
01:08:56
Two Man Forecheck
um And I think that this, if they can manage what?
01:09:00
Chris
Well, technically they all have the same amount of money, don't they?
01:09:03
Two Man Forecheck
What?
01:09:04
Chris
Technically they all have the same amount of money, don't they?
01:09:06
Two Man Forecheck
No, no, no.
01:09:06
Chris
They all have to...
01:09:06
Two Man Forecheck
They have the same amount of salary to spend. They don't have the same amount of money to spend on facilities and trainers and scouts and all of the other ancillaries.
01:09:14
Chris
Ah, okay.
01:09:18
Chris
Okay.
01:09:20
Two Man Forecheck
Um...
01:09:21
Chris
And yes, Brad Triller-Ring two years ago, 31st, 2023, he took over.
01:09:28
Two Man Forecheck
ah The fact that Shanahan got permission to speak with the Islanders about their hockey ops role, um Shanahan replacing Lamorello is kind of hilarious if it actually happens, but...
01:09:45
Chris
How is Shan... Wait. So now you're going to have Shanahan and... on a second. Matthew Darsh is the GM. And Patrick Waugh.
01:09:56
Chris
and Are Shanahan and Roaugh going to get along?
01:10:01
Two Man Forecheck
Is anyone going to survive the two of them getting along?
01:10:11
Two Man Forecheck
um i I don't know what's going to happen with the Leafs, but this summer is going to be calamitously interesting.
01:10:12
Chris
Oh, goodness.
01:10:20
Two Man Forecheck
ah Watching what happens with the front office and what happens at ice level with ah the contract renewals.
01:10:21
Chris
Well, they're gonna get
01:10:28
Two Man Forecheck
um It's interesting to note that the MSLE
01:10:29
Chris
they're gonna get broken up.
01:10:32
Two Man Forecheck
um
01:10:35
Two Man Forecheck
CEO has basically as basically let go of all of the second of the upper tier managers, like the club president equivalents.
01:10:38
Chris
That's that's the ownership group. Yes.
01:10:49
Two Man Forecheck
and is dealing directly with the GM who's at the sharp, ah the GM or GM equivalent at the sharp end of the stick for all of the franchises under the banner.
01:11:00
Chris
So there's no buffer. They're getting rid of the buffer level between them and the general manager who makes the decision.
01:11:05
Two Man Forecheck
Correct. Uh, Bill Manning is, has been serving as president of both, uh, Toronto FC and the CFL's Toronto Argonauts. Um, um,
01:11:18
Two Man Forecheck
with uh with them reporting basically directly or no i'm sorry they're all reporting to pelly um and i think that's probably what's going to happen here i don't think you're going to see a new president of hockey operations for the leafs um unless they decide to expand true living's role which i just don't see right now um
01:11:50
Chris
It is interesting. they So they want a direct line to who's running the show. They don't want to have to go through some kind of middleman such as a team president.
01:11:58
Two Man Forecheck
They are cutting out ah the, they're cutting the fluff.
01:12:05
Chris
Is it a money move or is it a we want to we is it more so they're not necessarily taking the Tom Dundon route and wanting to be micromanagers.
01:12:08
Two Man Forecheck
I think it might be just streamlining stuff.
01:12:20
Two Man Forecheck
I don't believe that's what it is. um i think it's possibly more along the lines of accountability. um I think there's so many ways that you can spread the blame so far that no one ever actually is held accountable when there's a lot, when there's big and multiple layers.
Potential Bruins Coaching Candidates
01:12:42
Two Man Forecheck
um We do have a couple more quick hits um Ryan Orosowski was named a head coach of the U.S. men's national team earlier this year.
01:12:55
Two Man Forecheck
And that national team, which includes Jeremy Swayman, um ma I believe it's Mason Luray, and um
01:13:08
Two Man Forecheck
McAvoy, is doing pretty well. They were in the semifinals. Yeah.
01:13:15
Two Man Forecheck
should would we Should we be adding this list, this name to the list of ah potential head coaches ah here in Boston? He wouldn't be a retread, so he's automatically got your vote, right?
01:13:29
Chris
Um, unfortunately his last name scares me. And I don't know, I don't know whether he's related to or not related to. I haven't had a chance to look it up.
01:13:40
Two Man Forecheck
Yes, he is.
01:13:42
Chris
He is. Oh, see that that's a check mark against him because the Bruins drafted a young man with the last name Warsawski.
01:13:50
Two Man Forecheck
Yeah, this is this is the other... but I think there were three kids, ah three Worsowskis. But this team the men's team is actually playing for gold today.
01:13:56
Chris
Uh, huh.
01:14:00
Chris
Okay.
01:14:03
Two Man Forecheck
um If they win, does that checkmark on the bad side go away?
01:14:10
Chris
I don't know if it goes away, but it might be a little bit less glaring.
01:14:18
Chris
I don't want to hold it against him. It's not fair. David Worsofsky, know, we drafted him out of BU, and um yeah, no, just no.
01:14:27
Two Man Forecheck
He was not an NHL player, period.
01:14:27
Chris
He played...
01:14:30
Chris
He was an NHL player for a cup of coffee.
01:14:36
Two Man Forecheck
He was, okay.
01:14:36
Chris
About that long.
01:14:38
Two Man Forecheck
He was not a key portion of a team type NHL player.
01:14:46
Chris
ah Didn't he spend more time in the Pittsburgh organization than he did in the Bruins organization?
01:14:51
Two Man Forecheck
I believe he did, yes.
01:14:55
Chris
All right. I will begrudgingly give Ryan... A chance.
01:15:01
Two Man Forecheck
ah Ryan did actually play himself. He's from North Marshfield. ah He played at Sacred Heart, Curry College, ah played in a couple of leagues that I genuinely can't name.
01:15:08
Chris
Yep.
01:15:19
Two Man Forecheck
um
01:15:21
Chris
i think I think what keys it for me is this statement right here, or this particular. Prior to joining the Sharks, Worsowski was head coach of the Chicago Wolves of the AHL for two seasons, where in 2022, at the age of 34, he became the youngest coach since Peter LaViolette in 99 to guide a team to the Calder Cup.
01:15:45
Chris
Spent two seasons with the Charlotte Checkers and guided the Checkers to the Calder Cup. Or help guide. So he's got a winning
01:15:59
Chris
lineage in the AHL. Can we make that translate to the and NHL level?
01:16:08
Chris
I'm erasing the...
01:16:08
Two Man Forecheck
Uh, that's, that's,
01:16:09
Chris
I'm slowly trying to erase the checkmark, Mike. we
01:16:13
Two Man Forecheck
that's a very good question. uh,
01:16:16
Chris
I'm trying to erase the checkmark. Okay.
01:16:21
Chris
I'm trying to give this guy the benefit of the doubt.
01:16:21
Two Man Forecheck
ah so he's currently coaching. He's still currently coaching for San Jose. i honestly forgot he was there. he had been their assistant coach for two years.
01:16:33
Two Man Forecheck
I guess we'll have to put him on the back burner for a few years.
01:16:35
Chris
I mean, is he he's not even 40 yet.
01:16:36
Two Man Forecheck
Uh,
01:16:39
Two Man Forecheck
No, he's not. And he's David's older brother.
01:16:45
Two Man Forecheck
right, he's 37. um
01:16:49
Chris
37 year old coaching the Bruins. Is that going to work? Do they need somebody with a little bit older, a little bit more experience or, because I've been, I've been making the argument that they need to get somebody like David, like like David Carl out of Denver college.
01:17:07
Two Man Forecheck
i
01:17:08
Chris
I don't, I don't want to retread.
01:17:08
Two Man Forecheck
you keep saying no retreads and then you keep saying, and then you say that someone is too, is too young. I mean,
01:17:15
Chris
i understand that. I'm trying to, I'm, I'm trying to give you the opportunity to enlighten me because I think that they don't need to retread.
01:17:23
Two Man Forecheck
i think it's all, it all comes down to quality and fit.
01:17:27
Chris
Okay.
01:17:28
Two Man Forecheck
I don't care whether they've been coaching 30 years or they're only 30 years old. Um,
01:17:33
Chris
See, Marco Sturm is not 35, 40 years old, but he's also not a retread.
01:17:39
Two Man Forecheck
I, I do. I've said that I like Marco Sturm. Um, um
01:17:45
Two Man Forecheck
We are running a little bit heavy on time. um We'll get to our official poll question for the week and two quick minutes on it. um What percentage of the cap will Jack Eichel's next contract be? Currently he's getting 11.4%. gave ah four options, to to thirteen one to fourteen six and then fourteen seven plus where do you think it's going to land
01:18:17
Chris
i don't know. Every time I come up with a number, you keep telling me, but the cap's going up and it's all about percentage of this percentage of the salary of the organization.
01:18:24
Two Man Forecheck
Yes, and that's why the poll is in cap percentage.
01:18:28
Chris
ah I think that he gets
01:18:34
Chris
like somewhere around 11% of the cap.
01:18:38
Two Man Forecheck
So he's getting a cut.
01:18:41
Chris
Why is he higher percentage right now?
01:18:43
Two Man Forecheck
He's at 11.4 right now, and that's coming off of the surgery that everyone expected to end his career.
01:18:50
Chris
Okay, let's bump him up to 12 and a half.
01:18:53
Two Man Forecheck
I'm going with 14.
01:18:56
Chris
Wow. Okay.
01:18:58
Two Man Forecheck
The voters, for to for plus, and then forty percent each for eleven three to thirteen and thirteen one to fourteen six
01:19:11
Chris
So the voters said that both you and I are right.
01:19:14
Two Man Forecheck
um that's not what they said
01:19:16
Chris
That is what they said. They both have 40%. I said 12. You said 14. I fall into one area. You fall into the other area. We're tied. We both right.
01:19:26
Two Man Forecheck
Um, that's a fascinating look at it. Fascinating.
01:19:33
Two Man Forecheck
Okay, so we will have a new poll for next week.
01:19:35
Chris
Wait. Time out. No. We have all the news that's fit to print.
01:19:39
Two Man Forecheck
Go quickly.
01:19:41
Chris
All the news that's fit to print. Brad Marchand. Everybody loves Brad Marchand, right?
01:19:45
Two Man Forecheck
Yes, definitely.
01:19:47
Chris
Yes, well, Brad Marchand has apparently found himself a new um and intermission and behavior, if you will. ah
01:20:00
Chris
During intermission of the game, the last game, he was captured eating a Dairy Queen Blizzard. And of course, he was asked, what flavor? Chocolate chip cookie dough.
01:20:12
Chris
You can't beat it, he said. the best dessert in the world. Then he had a request for a Dairy Queen where he said, I better get a lifetime supply of free Dairy Queen now. this This, sadly, was a story in the sport or online on the sporting news.
01:20:34
Two Man Forecheck
and you have to remember he's ate that during the second intermission and got a goal in the third period
01:20:41
Chris
Absolutely. So what are we saying? Eat a DQ Blizzard and go score goals?
01:20:46
Two Man Forecheck
yes yes it's going to be the official snack of the NHL by the end of next season
01:20:54
Chris
And there you have it. Again, like I said, all the news that's fit to print or online.
01:21:00
Two Man Forecheck
And that, hockey fans, is where we leave you. Have a great week. We will be back. ah More playoff stuff. We're going start taking a look at the draft. And who knows what else will pop up by then.
01:21:13
Two Man Forecheck
um Don't forget to take a look at the PWHL website. They've announced some of their awards, nominees, and finalists. Take care.