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Two Man ForeCheck Episode 413
11 Plays1 year ago
Western Conference Finals Set, ECF has Carolina waiting for the winner of Florida Panthers vs Toronto Maple Leafs
Dans Locmelis hype train is chugging along
Boston Bruins coaching search is turning over every rock and grain of sand
Winnipeg Jets
Carolina Hurricanes chances examined
Connor Hellebuuck - too many games or too few shots?
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:01
Two Man Forecheck
Good morning, Chris.
00:00:05
Chris
Good morning, Mike.
Western Conference Finals Setup Discussion
00:00:09
Two Man Forecheck
Another team has fallen. The Western Conference Finals are set. one
Mark Shifley's Personal Loss and Performance
00:00:14
Chris
i
00:00:16
Two Man Forecheck
One series remains ah undecided, and we're getting a game seven.
00:00:22
Chris
I know you're heartbroken and I'm sorry that Winnipeg went down. First thing I want to say, right, ah just off the bat is that we extend our sincere condolences from the two-man forecheck to Mark Shifley.
00:00:38
Chris
ah The loss of his father, as sudden as it is, i don't wish that upon anybody. And it's tough because watching him play, you could tell that something, you could tell that it was bothering him, but he didn't let it affect his game
00:00:58
Two Man Forecheck
On the bench, you could see it. On the ice, you couldn't. it was ah It was probably the best thing for him that he did play. um He got to burn a little energy. He got to escape a brand new shock for at least a shift or two at a time.
00:01:15
Two Man Forecheck
um My father passed. Your father passed. I think we both had a little bit more... Well, we definitely both had more...
00:01:26
Two Man Forecheck
and we there was more There were more signs. This was sudden. I don't know the circumstances. i don't I don't think it's anyone's business outside the family who's what the circumstances were.
00:01:40
Chris
Oh, I agree.
00:01:40
Two Man Forecheck
But um I just hope that everyone ah everyone deals with it in a safe and healthy way.
Camaraderie in the League: Support for Shifley
00:01:50
Chris
ah Watching at the end of the game, the handshake line, and I mean, the the commentators made the... and made mention that it was going to take longer. And, and of course it was because everybody knows, especially players that have been around the league for a while, uh, Nico Rantanen took extra time with them.
00:02:07
Chris
The, the younger guys, you know, they had some words of, of condolence and whatnot, but you could tell the ones that have been around the ones that he's played with the longest. And even Jamie Ben who in game five slugged him during a, a little tip along the boards and, and,
00:02:26
Chris
it kind of came out of nowhere because it was from like behind the linesman the way he did it but after that everybody knows that real life is so much more than what they do on the ice and to see them embracing and and to see jamie ben just letting him know how he felt it was It was nice to see because there was a bit of animosity after that that in that little incident.
00:03:00
Chris
and And the game itself was was such a competitive game. I mean, yeah, it went into overtime, but it wasn't long into overtime. it was just it was It was tough to watch, but he was just he was entertaining.
00:03:09
Two Man Forecheck
It was good hockey.
00:03:12
Chris
And for him to actually score a goal in the game must have been huge for him.
00:03:19
Two Man Forecheck
ah Yes. I think that I hope that the this was a good thing for him. i think it was. um And unfortunately, he now has the rest of the offseason to deal with everything else and be with family and friends and um do that weird thing that so many people fail to do called cope.
00:03:46
Chris
Yeah.
00:03:47
Two Man Forecheck
um
00:03:50
Two Man Forecheck
But let's dive on into
Jets' Elimination and the President's Trophy Curse
00:03:52
Two Man Forecheck
the hockey. um Dallas eliminated the Jets. um
00:04:00
Two Man Forecheck
President's Trophy curse strikes again.
00:04:04
Chris
I thought the same thing when that when when they were eliminated. I'm like that that president that winning that president's trophy has got to be the worst thing to any team. i mean, at some point,
00:04:14
Two Man Forecheck
and
00:04:15
Chris
At some point, don't organizations hope they finish second? um what
00:04:21
Two Man Forecheck
I really am going to have to sometime this offseason look into what, where in the top 16 the most Stanley Cups have gone in the last 30 years.
00:04:34
Chris
I'd just like to know, and I'm sure it's probably a lot easier to look up than having to do all of that, just the last time a president's trophy winner actually won the Stanley Cup.
00:04:45
Chris
Because i can't remember the time I can't remember a time when they did. I'm sure it's happened, but...
00:04:51
Two Man Forecheck
Um, was it, was it Vegas winning a couple of years ago?
00:04:56
Chris
Did they win the President's Trophy that year?
00:04:58
Two Man Forecheck
I don't remember now, but that's, that's a topic for another show.
00:05:03
Chris
Yeah.
00:05:03
Two Man Forecheck
Uh, that's a, that's definitely a summer topic.
00:05:05
Chris
Okay.
00:05:07
Two Man Forecheck
Um,
00:05:08
Chris
the I mean, as i as I commented earlier, the game itself was just...
The Art of Low-Scoring Hockey Games
00:05:14
Chris
I have this impression because i follow soccer that and and the way Americans in general react to soccer, they don't like it because there isn't enough scoring. It's not fast enough or they perceive that it's not fast enough.
00:05:30
Chris
I can appreciate a low scoring game. more than most people. I happen to really like solid goaltending too. And last night's game, the two goaltenders on offer, Ottinger and Hellebuck were both stellar.
00:05:46
Chris
I mean, making saves that just doing everything, throwing everything in the way, trying to
00:05:47
Two Man Forecheck
So...
00:05:56
Chris
ah trying to urge their team to victory. I mean, it was it was impressive to watch.
Hellebuck's Playoff Capabilities
00:06:02
Two Man Forecheck
Now, having seen the two teams and having watched them over the years, um my question becomes, what does this offseason...
00:06:18
Two Man Forecheck
say ah about Connor Hellebuck. He put, he turned three season, three regular seasons, three regular seasons in a row of over nine 20 save percentage to 2023, nine nine games.
00:06:31
Chris
Okay.
00:06:37
Two Man Forecheck
and twenty four twenty five nine twenty five say percentage sixty four games sixty game sixty three games um postseason though yes he had two shutouts in this ah playoff run but he still managed to finish with an 866 save percentage
00:07:02
Chris
i don't want to be the one to I don't want to be the one to accuse him of not being a playoff performer.
Winnipeg's Playoff Journey Analysis
00:07:12
Chris
But the numbers are starting to...
00:07:13
Two Man Forecheck
oh the accusation's been there for years
00:07:17
Chris
Yeah, and unfortunately, the numbers tend to back that argument up.
00:07:24
Chris
I mean, 866, not going to get it done.
00:07:30
Chris
Even if they even if they got even if they got past Dallas, then you got to face another offensive.
00:07:39
Chris
Uh, I don't want to use the word juggernaut. I really don't, but I'm trying to find another powerhouse is a good one.
00:07:43
Two Man Forecheck
Powerhouse?
00:07:46
Chris
Yeah. ah In, in, in Edmonton where they've got Evander Kane, Eugene Hopkins, Leon Dreisaitl, Connor McDavid, uh, Evan Broussard on the back end.
00:07:57
Chris
Uh, and, then you get into the the the depth scoring with Corey Perry and possibly another few goals out of Trent Frederick. I mean, the the list goes on and on.
00:08:12
Two Man Forecheck
I mean, looking at the goals against per game for all 16 playoff teams, Winnipeg Jets were eighth, so dead center.
00:08:23
Two Man Forecheck
um The Kings, the Devils, the Lightning, they were all ridiculous at 3.8 or higher. I mean, the Kings allowed four and a half goals per game.
00:08:34
Two Man Forecheck
um Montreal 3.6, 3.6. The Knights... the jet the knights who were also just eliminated. 318, the Senators 317, Edmonton Oilers, who are advancing, they allowed 3.09.
00:08:52
Two Man Forecheck
Then
00:08:54
Chris
Yeah.
00:08:55
Two Man Forecheck
um then the Jets at 3.08. Toronto, who is still alive for at least one more game, three goals per game. The Blues, Colorado Avalanche, Minnesota Wild, all at three as well.
00:09:11
Two Man Forecheck
Dallas is at 2.92. The Caps were eliminated at 2.7. um And then the Florida Panthers have the best... Well, the Florida Panthers at 255. The Carolina Hurricanes and Freddie... ah my My new middle name is Conn Smythe Anderson. 1.8 goals against average.
00:09:36
Two Man Forecheck
By far the lowest of any k of any team.
00:09:39
Chris
Okay. Okay.
00:09:42
Two Man Forecheck
So I would say that he's average. I wonder what it would be like if he played five less games during the regular season. and
00:09:53
Two Man Forecheck
Looking at his career, he seems to have the best regular season numbers when he plays a lot.
00:10:04
Two Man Forecheck
Like you... I mean...
00:10:07
Chris
But that's the thing. there are some goaltenders There are some goaltenders that actually thrive on having more work instead of less. I'm not i' not saying that we should limit him, but maybe we should limit
Managing Goaltender Workload
00:10:20
Chris
him. If you can cut him down, like you said, five to five to seven games in the regular season, is that going to help him stay energized,
00:10:35
Chris
mean Is he worn out by the time they get to the playoffs? I don't know.
00:10:40
Two Man Forecheck
I mean, maybe what you're looking at, like ideal world for me, you give him his you give him the reigns, you know, October, November, December.
00:10:53
Two Man Forecheck
In January and February and March, you slow it down so that the other guy plays half the games in that period. And then the end, the last three weeks of March in through April, he's playing four out of five and ramping back up.
00:11:13
Two Man Forecheck
Um, so he still has rest, but never gets rusty. Um, but I, I don't know that 62, 64 games.
00:11:26
Two Man Forecheck
And then however many games you run in the playoffs is ideal. um, That said, they did lose Shifley.
00:11:37
Two Man Forecheck
um He was clearly playing through stuff a couple of times. um there were other There were other injuries.
00:11:46
Chris
didn't did they Did they lose Morrissey last night during the game?
00:11:50
Two Man Forecheck
Morrissey. and Morrissey, sorry.
00:11:52
Chris
I was going to say not.
00:11:52
Two Man Forecheck
Morrissey went out last night, but he was also injured a couple of times this season. um I suspect he was never back to 100%.
00:12:03
Chris
It's hockey. How many people are at 100% playoffs?
00:12:08
Two Man Forecheck
ah very, very few other than the equipment guys, and even those guys are usually a little ragged. Shifley played, only played 11 of their games. So yeah, he missed a couple of other games.
00:12:23
Two Man Forecheck
I'm sorry, not Shifley. We were talking about Morrissey.
00:12:26
Chris
Morrissey. Yeah.
00:12:27
Two Man Forecheck
Morrissey played 12 of their 13 games um and was injured in last night's game. So yeah, there was other stuff going on.
00:12:39
Chris
Yeah. And like I said, that's something that and you don't hear about them until After the team is eliminated, it's just a ah just the way things are done now where they won't tell you if somebody's hurt because they're worried that somebody might target that injury or or or they might target that player. Oh, my God, you know that he he can't skate to the left because he he strained his left cap or something like you So now it's just the dreaded LBI or UBI or whatever they want to call it.
00:13:13
Chris
They don't tell you what's hurt. They don't tell you how they're hurt or how badly they're hurt. And in some cases, like going back all the way to Patrice Bergeron, i mean, you could tell something was wrong, but he wasn't going to come out and say that he had, ah he wasn't to come out and say that he was,
00:13:29
Two Man Forecheck
He had a laundry list of injuries that should have killed him, yeah
00:13:35
Chris
but yet you don't hear about it until afterwards. It's like, yeah, you know what? He had yeah his leg broken in three places, but he still played. of course he did. It's the playoffs. It's the way it's done.
00:13:49
Chris
It's just, a you're not going to hear about those things. And i don't know, maybe, yeah, because when the dog days of of winter suddenly come upon us, you get into the January, February grind,
00:14:05
Chris
and and games start getting compressed where you're suddenly playing four games in a week as opposed to two or maybe three or maybe, you know, is there somewhere where they've got to actually ramp him down
00:14:26
Chris
so that when he does get to the playoffs, when Winnipeg does get to the playoffs, he's not...
Impact of Shot Blocking on Goaltenders
00:14:33
Chris
67 games into a, a season, you know maybe if he's only 60 games or 58 games, that's that, that,
00:14:43
Two Man Forecheck
You know, there might be something else to think about.
00:14:50
Two Man Forecheck
And I know that
00:14:54
Two Man Forecheck
maybe he's not seeing enough shots and there's a little too much screening going on. um During the regular season, the Jets allowed 27.2 shots against per game.
00:15:06
Two Man Forecheck
two shots against per game
00:15:09
Chris
okay
00:15:11
Two Man Forecheck
during the postseason, 23.3, the lowest of any team. So if he's not seeing enough
Defensive Strategies and Goaltender Performance
00:15:20
Two Man Forecheck
and not getting hit enough, maybe that's slowing him down.
00:15:25
Two Man Forecheck
And yes, it's going to impact his save percentage when there's so few shots.
00:15:26
Chris
Wait.
00:15:30
Chris
Wait for it. We have a new reason for not winning. The defense was too good. do
00:15:37
Two Man Forecheck
Not necessarily too good, but they might have limited his vision on some of those goals.
00:15:43
Chris
I mean, yes. lot in In fact, the game winner last night that Thomas Harley scored,
00:15:51
Chris
it was he was actually being screened by his own player as the puck carried past his right shoulder.
00:16:03
Chris
So he was a little late in getting the glove up.
00:16:07
Chris
I mean,
00:16:10
Two Man Forecheck
I mean...
00:16:10
Chris
I don't want to ever... I don't want to ever... knock a team for playing solid defense and limiting the other team's chances, limiting the other team's shots on goal.
00:16:19
Chris
Because yeah
00:16:19
Two Man Forecheck
No, but there there's a point where you're going from blocking shots to blocking vision lines of vision, and...
00:16:32
Two Man Forecheck
Yeah, it's detrimental. It's... I'm not completely excusing it, but...
00:16:43
Two Man Forecheck
you can't ignore it. Um,
00:16:44
Chris
Okay.
00:16:49
Two Man Forecheck
and let's face it, 23 shots per game. Not very much. That's there. I mean, we've seen games where teams have had 30 shots in a period.
00:17:04
Two Man Forecheck
um,
00:17:07
Two Man Forecheck
doesn't It also probably does not help that ah the Winnipeg Jets, are only ah their face-off win percentage was only 47.3%, third lowest in the playoffs.
00:17:22
Two Man Forecheck
ah So whenever there were defensive zone pen ah defensive zone face-offs, he had to be on the hop immediately. Yeah.
00:17:36
Two Man Forecheck
am i Again, am I saying that he doesn't he bears no responsibility? absolutely Absolutely not. um But I am saying that there are differences between what we're seeing with him in the regular season and postseason, and some of it may come down to overemphasis on part of coaching, overexcitement on the part of teammates.
Game Seven Predictions: Panthers vs. Leafs
00:18:01
Two Man Forecheck
um But it's I'm certain it's something they'll be looking at
00:18:07
Two Man Forecheck
Uh, what's your prediction for game seven Tampa? I mean, Panthers and Leafs.
00:18:24
Chris
I'm going to go with Florida. until Until such time as I see Toronto actually get over the hump, I still think that they're living in their own heads and the fact that they couldn't put away Florida...
00:18:49
Chris
I think letting it get to a game seven is going to be detrimental to them. I like the fact that Joseph Wall's in net. I said a couple of years ago when the Bruins played them and Samsonov got hurt, they put Wall in and Wall actually backstopped them.
00:19:08
Chris
But when it came to game seven and Samsonov was healthy again, instead of starting Wall, they started Samsonov. I even said back then that had they started Wall, instead of Samsonov, the Bruins might not have made it out of that because Joseph Wall was the better goaltender.
00:19:26
Chris
I think that having Wall in net is going to help them, but I honestly believe that Florida having a just won the cup last year, and being able to stay around you know in ah in a matchup where they they were facing
Florida's Success vs. Toronto's Challenges
00:19:45
Chris
elimination, and Toronto was not able to do that,
00:19:49
Chris
I think that that's going to play against them. So I think i i think it's going to be Florida.
00:19:57
Two Man Forecheck
I, okay, my my heart says it's going to be Florida. My head says pay attention.
00:20:06
Chris
Okay.
00:20:06
Two Man Forecheck
yeah
00:20:06
Chris
What are you paying attention to? If Austin Matthews, and we talked about this last show, if Austin Matthews has not been the playoff performer they need,
00:20:15
Two Man Forecheck
But hey, just just look at his response in the last game. He got high-sticked in the second period, and, you know, you wait a full period, and he came back and scored.
00:20:28
Chris
Oh, that's okay. Sure.
00:20:30
Two Man Forecheck
um
00:20:36
Chris
That's good turnaround. I mean,
00:20:37
Two Man Forecheck
and it's an excellent turnaround ah in terms of goals you know looking at the looking at some of the stats in the in the series um Florida has the better penalty kill or in the season in the postseason Florida has the better penalty kill and the better power play Um, ah statistically, yeah, yeah. You really have to go with the, with the Panthers. They're scoring more. They're allowing less.
00:21:09
Two Man Forecheck
Um,
00:21:13
Two Man Forecheck
but as you say, Joseph wall has been really, really good this off season.
00:21:20
Chris
I like him. liked him at Boston College.
00:21:21
Two Man Forecheck
Bob has had a couple of bad games.
00:21:26
Chris
Yeah, the goal he allowed.
00:21:28
Two Man Forecheck
the first two games of the series were bad for Bob. They were just bad.
00:21:35
Two Man Forecheck
um I think that there's...
00:21:43
Two Man Forecheck
On paper, pant the Panthers should win this game.
00:21:46
Chris
yes
00:21:48
Two Man Forecheck
Unfortunately, the game is played on the ice. um
00:21:52
Chris
They don't play it on paper.
00:21:54
Two Man Forecheck
They don't play it on paper. And...
00:21:55
Chris
Damn.
00:21:57
Two Man Forecheck
You know, we just talked about face-offs. Florida's face-off win percentage is 45.5.
00:22:04
Chris
That would be abysmal.
00:22:05
Two Man Forecheck
Toronto's is 57.1. That's a big swing. That's a lot of possession. And you've got, assuming he's healthy, Nyes, Hyman, or wait minute, Nyes...
00:22:21
Chris
Hyman, he's with Edmonton.
00:22:23
Two Man Forecheck
I know. I'm...
00:22:24
Chris
yeah
00:22:24
Two Man Forecheck
Nyes...
00:22:27
Two Man Forecheck
Matthews, if he gets high-sticked. um
00:22:30
Chris
nearlander
00:22:31
Two Man Forecheck
Nylander, yes. You've got Marner, even Tavares, who can be counted on to score regularly. This is not...
00:22:42
Two Man Forecheck
and one game for all In one game for all the marbles, this isn't as clear-cut as it is because of goaltending and because of possession.
00:22:42
Chris
I'm not saying...
00:22:52
Two Man Forecheck
Um...
00:22:54
Chris
I'm not saying that Toronto doesn't have a chance. I'm just saying that I think it's...
00:23:00
Chris
whether you want whether people want to admit to it or not, the mental game is still part of the game. We saw it happen how many times Toronto against Boston.
00:23:15
Chris
They were up 4-1 in the Game 7 and lost it.
00:23:15
Two Man Forecheck
Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you there.
00:23:23
Chris
I just i can't get past the fact the importance of the mental game when it comes to a game seven and Toronto. I want to believe that goaltending and face-offs and the the abundance of goal scoring, which is what?
00:23:40
Two Man Forecheck
But there's also the third intangible. Or the third unmeasurable, and that's Craig Berube.
00:23:49
Two Man Forecheck
I think that Craig Berube is the best coach that these players, the core four, have had ah in their NHL tenure. Yeah.
00:23:59
Chris
And
00:23:59
Two Man Forecheck
tenure
00:24:00
Chris
And I'm not going to argue that point. I mean, he was had he was brought in his head coach in St. Louis when they won the Stanley Cup over the Bruins. what was that, six years ago?
00:24:11
Chris
Was that 2019?
00:24:13
Two Man Forecheck
yeah
00:24:14
Chris
They were in dead last. They bring him in his head coach. They ride the honeymoon all the way to the playoffs. Usually the honeymoon only lasts a few weeks. In their case, it lasted a few months.
00:24:27
Chris
Yes, it didn't help that the Bruins had... had to Geraskin net and, and, and that was ugly in and of itself, but it, it's
00:24:36
Two Man Forecheck
Well, the coach on the other side also um had a cigarette with the pooch immediately after the game.
00:24:40
Chris
has won a Stanley cup since then too, but it's just, I, I understand that there are intangibles, but then there's the other intangible of Florida is a physical hockey team.
00:24:57
Two Man Forecheck
And Toronto, for the most part, does not like playing that way. Toronto played that way in the first two games. And that's part of why they won.
00:25:04
Chris
but got away from But they got away from it.
00:25:11
Chris
Craig Berube needs to convince them to be that way again.
00:25:16
Chris
He needs to sell them on, we need to match their physicality, seems to be the favorite word over the last few years in sports, He needs to convince the players to match Florida's physicality. They can't back down.
00:25:30
Chris
They can't just play ah finesse game because that's not going to work.
00:25:35
Two Man Forecheck
There's literally no tomorrow for this core anymore.
00:25:40
Chris
Well, Marner's probably going to be gone.
00:25:40
Two Man Forecheck
um
00:25:43
Two Man Forecheck
Taveras is probably going to be gone.
00:25:45
Chris
Yeah.
00:25:46
Two Man Forecheck
um i I think that this team is going to look very, very different year from that by fall.
00:25:55
Chris
I do have one other question.
00:25:58
Chris
Does a certain play... And it's not really a fair question because both teams have one, technically. Not technically, they do. Both teams have one, but I think that Florida has the more impactful one.
00:26:13
Chris
Both teams have a player from an organization that lived in the head of the Toronto Maple Leafs.
00:26:23
Chris
The Leafs have...
00:26:23
Two Man Forecheck
and That's a good question.
00:26:25
Two Man Forecheck
and I understand you're...
00:26:25
Chris
The Leafs have Brandon Carlo. The Leafs have Brandon Carlo, but Florida has Brad Martian. I mean, if there's one guy that lives in every Maple Leafs head rent-free, it's Brad Martian.
00:26:32
Two Man Forecheck
Yes.
00:26:38
Two Man Forecheck
but
00:26:38
Chris
Hmm.
00:26:39
Two Man Forecheck
Brad Marchand lives in like 60% of the leagues had rent-free. And probably 99% of the NHL office front offices
00:26:51
Two Man Forecheck
But as much as Brad Marchand lives in their heads rent-free, Brandon Carlo addresses a need that this Toronto Maple Leafs had, and that's for a stay-at-home defenseman who's not going to get rattled, who's got a great stick, who's got great reach, um and can play with a Jake McCabe or opposite a Jake McCabe or a Chris Tanev.
00:27:16
Two Man Forecheck
and give you that very reliable coverage and very solid exits from the defensive zone.
00:27:26
Chris
Okay. I'm not saying they don't. And I'm still questioning whether Toronto actually came looking for Carlo or if the Bruins actually shopped him to Toronto because in my head, Toronto does not look for that type of defensive player.
00:27:43
Chris
i think I think that's all Boston's fault, but that's neither here nor there. Yeah.
00:27:48
Two Man Forecheck
the most One of the funny things about Brandon Carlo going to Toronto after all these years with as much time as he has left on his contract, he's actually one of the younger players on their defense, even though he's 10 years into his career now.
00:27:58
Chris
is he didn't want to go.
00:28:07
Two Man Forecheck
Morgan Riley's 31, Chris Tanev's 35, Oliver Ekman-Larsen's 33, Jake McCabe's 31, Dakota Mermis's jake mccabes thirty one um
00:28:15
Chris
how many of those names are offensive defensement How many of those names are offensive defensemen?
00:28:15
Two Man Forecheck
decode it murmurrmis
00:28:18
Chris
offensive defensemen though?
00:28:20
Two Man Forecheck
ah Riley definitely is. OEL's a um a two-way defenseman. He used to be way more offensive, but injuries...
00:28:28
Chris
Yes, but still still thinks offensively first.
00:28:33
Two Man Forecheck
McCabe is a defensive defenseman.
00:28:37
Two Man Forecheck
Tanev is probably a defensive defenseman.
00:28:40
Chris
Really?
00:28:41
Two Man Forecheck
um I don't think of ah offense when I think of Chris Tanev.
00:28:47
Chris
he wants to be.
00:28:52
Two Man Forecheck
And I don't believe that the stats ah support him as an offensive defenseman, given that he's 867 games into his career and has total goals
00:28:57
Chris
and Okay. No, that's fine. that that i just
00:29:03
Two Man Forecheck
and two hundred and eight points
00:29:05
Chris
Toronto and Edmonton are two teams that I just don't see them valuing Brandon Carlo. That's why I think that Brandon ended up there because the Boston Bruins sold him, like sold them on him.
00:29:18
Chris
I don't think that Toronto came looking for him.
00:29:28
Chris
It's just a thought. I mean, again, it's another topic for another time. I still, ah even with all of your, even with all of your, your good evidence, I still think that Florida is going to pull this one out. I just think that ah recent experience and the fact that they've actually been able to get all the way to the finish line, the fact that the last two years in a row, they've made deep runs and, and,
00:29:55
Chris
The fact that Toronto just seems to have it in their heads that they can't get past their again out of their own way.
00:30:03
Two Man Forecheck
I think another big part of it right now um is
00:30:11
Two Man Forecheck
but guys who need to be healthy for the Florida Panthers to win are healthy. If Matthew Nyes is dinged and he is, some people will have him listed as questionable.
00:30:24
Two Man Forecheck
um
00:30:25
Chris
I think that's all.
00:30:26
Two Man Forecheck
That's a big, that's a big loss. Even if he's, if he's playing at 60%, that's big loss. that's a big loss um
00:30:34
Chris
Yes.
00:30:36
Two Man Forecheck
i i mean, i I anticipate that the Florida Panthers are going to win. um
00:30:46
Two Man Forecheck
But win, lose, or draw, I don't see this i don't see the Toronto team looking anything like what we're seeing tonight for the last time, or possibly for the last time.
00:31:01
Two Man Forecheck
when camp closes into in September.
00:31:07
Chris
and Okay.
00:31:10
Two Man Forecheck
ah So Western Conference Finals.
00:31:15
Two Man Forecheck
We have Dallas.
00:31:17
Chris
We do.
Dallas vs. Edmonton Predictions
00:31:20
Two Man Forecheck
and We have a Dallas team who who played a really good opponent, who outplayed a very good opponent. We have the Edmonton Oilers.
00:31:34
Two Man Forecheck
Another team who I think this is win or be broken up time.
00:31:45
Chris
Okay, are you asking for a prediction?
00:31:49
Two Man Forecheck
I am asking for a prediction.
00:31:55
Chris
Dallas in six, it's all about goaltending.
00:31:59
Chris
I'm sorry, but this is where the the fact that Edmonton doesn't have it comes back to bite them.
00:32:10
Chris
Because Dallas is not only strong in net, but they're strong on defense and they have the, and they have the ability with the young guns with Robertson back with Harley, with Ropey hints.
00:32:27
Chris
They have the ability to put the puck in the net with Miko Rantanen. I'm sorry. This is, I know that Edmonton beat Dallas last year. We're playing this back, right? Edmonton did beat Dallas last year in the conference finals.
00:32:41
Two Man Forecheck
I believe so. Yeah.
00:32:42
Chris
Yeah. this is this is dallas This is Dallas' year. Dallas is going to get past them. it's going to be i think it's going to be like six games. It's going to be a dogfight. It's not going to be any kind of... Anybody who predicts sweeps this far into the playoffs doesn't watch them enough.
00:33:02
Two Man Forecheck
No, I would not predict a sweep. Um, I think whoever's healthier after game three wins this series. ah Both teams are reasonably healthy right now.
00:33:15
Two Man Forecheck
um Evander Kane and Corey Perry are playing ridiculous.
00:33:20
Chris
Yes.
00:33:21
Two Man Forecheck
um I mean, Evander Kane didn't play the and almost, what it was it, the entire regular season?
00:33:28
Chris
and don't think he played I think he came back. yeah I think he came back just in time for the playoffs. I don't think he played a regular season game. I,
00:33:37
Two Man Forecheck
And Corey Perry is literally the definition of an old war horse at this time in sports terms. No, zero regular season games. Jumps back into the playoffs. He's played 10 games now, four goals, three assists.
00:33:52
Two Man Forecheck
He's a plus three, just under 17 minutes a night. um And he's got a almost 15% shooting percentage.
00:34:04
Chris
So he's well rested.
00:34:04
Two Man Forecheck
Last postseason, it was under 10%. postseason before it was under eight. um
00:34:13
Chris
So he's well rested.
00:34:15
Two Man Forecheck
He's well rested. um
00:34:20
Two Man Forecheck
Scory Perry returns again. he just turned 42 days ago.
00:34:28
Chris
Happy birthday.
00:34:30
Two Man Forecheck
um Played all 81 regular, played 81 regular season games. And in 11 postseason games on under 14 minutes of ice time, he has an almost 36% shooting percentage.
00:34:46
Two Man Forecheck
Yes, almost 36%.
00:34:50
Two Man Forecheck
Five goals, two assists, and is a plus six.
00:34:58
Two Man Forecheck
Terrifying as it is to say, Corey Perry might be the dark horse for the Conn Smythe.
00:35:00
Chris
Yeah.
00:35:06
Chris
Yeah, not happening.
00:35:06
Two Man Forecheck
at 40 years old, as a third-line, fourth-line player.
00:35:13
Chris
Unless the voters change their opinion on how they give out the award, it's going to Miko Rana.
00:35:21
Two Man Forecheck
Well, it Mika Rantanen has to make it out of this round.
00:35:26
Chris
Yes, but so does Corey Perry.
00:35:28
Two Man Forecheck
Yes. ah And you still have Freddie Anderson on the other side, too.
00:35:32
Chris
I'm not denying that. I haven't forgotten about him. if he keeps up If he keeps up his winning, if he keeps up his the way he's playing, even if even if Carolina doesn't get...
00:35:45
Two Man Forecheck
which has been bonkers.
00:35:50
Chris
i No, I don't want to say it that way. If Carolina gets to the final Stanley Cup final and loses...
00:36:01
Chris
I think Fred Anderson still has an outside shot of being, it hasn't happened since John Sebastian, j what, where a ah ah losing a team player on a losing team won the Conn Smythe?
00:36:08
Two Man Forecheck
Last year.
00:36:16
Two Man Forecheck
Yep, they gave it to McDavid last year. they gave it to
00:36:22
Two Man Forecheck
mcdavid last year
00:36:24
Chris
Wasn't McDavid?
Conn Smythe Trophy Contenders
00:36:25
Chris
Oh, that's right, because he skated away. He didn't want it.
00:36:30
Chris
But, okay, so before him, it was what? John Sebastian Jaguar with Anaheim, and we're talking ages ago. It doesn't happen very often. But, yes, if they get to the final and they lose, I think that Fred Anderson still has an outside shot.
00:36:49
Chris
I think right now the leader in the clubhouse, just based on the numbers he's putting up, it's still Rantanen's to lose.
00:37:01
Two Man Forecheck
That's fair. Um...
00:37:04
Chris
But as far as Dallas-Edmonton, yeah, I still have Dallas in six. I think this is i think the goaltending woes of Edmonton are going to come back to bite them regardless of how much they can put the puck in the net, and they can.
00:37:16
Chris
I would never deny that. I mean, I listed off the scoring prowess they have, ah both on offense and defense. that it They can put the puck in the net.
00:37:28
Chris
I think it's their ability to keep the puck out of their own net that's going to be their downfall.
00:37:35
Two Man Forecheck
That's fair. So we talked about we both expect Florida to beat Toronto.
Eastern Conference Finals Expectations
00:37:42
Chris
Yes.
00:37:42
Two Man Forecheck
Carolina is waiting for whichever one of those whichever those teams emerges from the fight.
00:37:51
Two Man Forecheck
We both picked Florida. Give me the call on the Southeast showdown.
00:38:01
Chris
The Southeast showdown.
00:38:05
Two Man Forecheck
Will it be Florida or Carolina winning the Eastern Conference?
00:38:06
Chris
Oh.
00:38:09
Chris
Ooh. See, now that one's tougher because you do have Fred Anderson on one side. And it's not like Carolina is terrible on defense either.
00:38:23
Chris
i still... As much as I...
00:38:29
Chris
I still think it's going to be Florida. This is another one of those yeah got to show me... the fact that The fact that Carolina has gotten... This far is
00:38:43
Chris
ah good thing, but I still need to see that they can push past it. i don't Florida's been there recently.
00:38:53
Two Man Forecheck
For me, i do lean towards Florida, but it's more because of star power.
00:38:54
Chris
ah still... Yes.
00:39:03
Two Man Forecheck
Jordan Stahl is having a great playoff run.
00:39:08
Chris
Yes.
00:39:11
Two Man Forecheck
I still question...
00:39:15
Two Man Forecheck
Who's the star? Who's the stud on that roster? Who's going to pull the rope himself when everyone else has fallen down and bring the other, the bring the ah other side to a stop.
00:39:29
Two Man Forecheck
We've seen Mika Renton and take over games. Freddie Anderson, unless he starts scoring two goals a game with, while throwing up a shutout, probably isn't winning the series all by himself.
00:39:44
Chris
Fair point.
00:39:46
Two Man Forecheck
um i I need to see a player or two stand up and say, boys, we're winning.
00:39:59
Two Man Forecheck
I refuse to lose. However you want to put it. um Because you look at the top 10 players for in points this postseason,
00:40:09
Chris
Excuse me.
00:40:14
Chris
But Carolina doesn't have that player.
00:40:16
Two Man Forecheck
They don't have a single player in the top 10 in terms of points.
00:40:27
Two Man Forecheck
um I mean, Kirill Kaprizov hasn't played, ah is has been eliminated, and he's still in the top 10 for goals.
00:40:37
Two Man Forecheck
um Yeah, they don't have a top 10 skater in goals, points, or assists. So yes, Freddie Anderson, 1.36 goals against average, 937 save percentage.
00:40:56
Two Man Forecheck
got a He might have to do even better than that for them to emerge into the next round.
00:41:04
Chris
umm um'm i'm imagining I'm imagining right now this conversation where Rod Brindamore comes up to Freddie and goes, Freddie, your numbers are stellar.
00:41:16
Chris
nine thirty The save percentage off the charts. You've got to be better. ah What?
00:41:27
Chris
I just seem...
00:41:27
Two Man Forecheck
Perfection isn't good enough. and Have fun.
00:41:29
Chris
Yeah, really. Yeah.
00:41:31
Two Man Forecheck
Perfection isn't good enough, but no pressure.
00:41:34
Chris
and just'm um'm I'm trying to picture that conversation. How do you say that to somebody? you've been You've been almost perfect, but it's not good enough. but it's not You have to be better.
00:41:47
Chris
Do better.
00:41:51
Chris
i mean, how do you do that with a straight face? There's no way. You can't go to Freddie and ask him to do that. You have to sit everybody else down and say, look.
00:42:04
Chris
this is as deep as we've run and in the last however many years, handful of years.
00:42:09
Two Man Forecheck
I think the last time they were this deep was like the 08 year when they, when, uh, the Bruins had Montador and Weidman on the ice for that last goal against.
00:42:22
Chris
Oh God, why would you do that?
00:42:26
Two Man Forecheck
And that was what? 07, 08, somewhere around there.
00:42:29
Chris
You would have been better off putting two forwards out there.
00:42:32
Two Man Forecheck
and You literally could have put two forwards out there and done better. Um,
00:42:39
Chris
Why would you do that ever?
00:42:43
Chris
and But yeah, he did did it it's going to take it's going to take a remarkable effort from Carolina. And unfortunately, i just, I don't see it. I mean, okay, yes, they have Ajo, they Svetchnikov. They have, I just, I don't see it.
00:43:01
Chris
I mean, Jacob Slavin's going to be...
00:43:01
Two Man Forecheck
I mean, Seth Jarvis, is Seth Jarvis emerging as that player? Four goals, six assists, 10 points, plus two in their 10 games to date. um Three of his four goals were at even strength. The other of four is a power play goal.
00:43:18
Chris
Okay.
00:43:18
Two Man Forecheck
Sebastian Ajo, three goals, seven assists, 10 points, plus ten plus four in the 10 games. One overtime goal, six of his points are power play, though.
00:43:30
Two Man Forecheck
Svechnikov has eight goals, nine ah one assist, plus six. um he's got three He's got three of their game winners.
00:43:41
Two Man Forecheck
I still don't know that I believe that there's ah winner here, like a guy who can take over the game. Taylor Hall, I think, is doing is having a huge impact.
00:43:54
Two Man Forecheck
you know he You see him playing a lot like Bergeron, um In the defensive zone, in the neutral zone, just taking away pucks and getting the team moving back in the offensive direction.
00:44:12
Two Man Forecheck
But I'm not seeing...
00:44:17
Two Man Forecheck
i don't have believability that this team can win the Cup.
00:44:22
Chris
i'm looking at matt um'm um'm I'm
Star Power in Playoff Success
00:44:24
Chris
considering matchups. I mean, who do you who do you match up against Matthew Kachuk? Do they have anybody who can match his physicality? And then if you get by him, who do you match up against Carter Verhage, Sam Bennett?
00:44:37
Chris
ah
00:44:41
Two Man Forecheck
i mean who
00:44:41
Chris
Who's the other Sam?
00:44:42
Two Man Forecheck
i mean, who quite frankly, who can go out there and annoy the other team as much as Bennett and Marchand and Kachuk?
00:44:57
Two Man Forecheck
I don't think it's going to be Jack Roslevic and Jacob Slavin or Jackson Blake. It's definitely not going to be Logan Stankoen. um Brent Burns is...
00:45:06
Chris
And I like Logan Stankoven.
00:45:09
Two Man Forecheck
I like Logan Sankovan a lot myself, but I think Brent Burns has passed his use-by date. ah This guy used to be a legit offensive defenseman, and now he's playing, <unk> even though he's still playing 22 minutes a night, he's only got three points through 10 games.
00:45:17
Chris
Just a little.
00:45:28
Chris
But are you relying on his defensive prowess? I hope not.
00:45:32
Two Man Forecheck
He has great defense like every three years for about six games. And that's about it.
00:45:41
Chris
The tougher question would be, what if Toronto does beat Florida and you got Toronto against Carolina? Ooh.
00:45:47
Two Man Forecheck
Toronto against Carolina.
00:45:50
Chris
Now that would be intriguing.
00:45:50
Two Man Forecheck
i think Toronto wins.
00:45:54
Chris
Yeah. I i was going to say the same thing myself.
00:45:56
Two Man Forecheck
Even, even with Freddie, even with Freddie being clear, hands down the better goaltender. um I just...
00:46:07
Chris
But Joseph, see the thing is Joseph,
00:46:07
Two Man Forecheck
and To win in the conference finals and the Stanley Cup, you need a dude that everyone can rally around.
00:46:18
Two Man Forecheck
Who can...
00:46:18
Chris
In Florida's case, it's Matthew Kachuk.
00:46:19
Two Man Forecheck
Who can pull the rope.
00:46:25
Two Man Forecheck
I mean... I don't see that. I used to refer to Patrice Bergeron as the emotional epicenter of the Bruins.
00:46:34
Chris
Yeah. In Florida's case, like I said, it's Matthew Kachuk.
00:46:39
Two Man Forecheck
In, in, into in Carolina's case, it might be Jordan Stahl, but as much as I like Jordan Stahl always have, he's
00:46:47
Chris
He just doesn't elicit.
00:46:51
Chris
He doesn't elicit that response from me though.
00:46:54
Two Man Forecheck
he's not,
00:46:54
Chris
Like.
00:46:55
Two Man Forecheck
he doesn't have that big moment ability that Bergeron or or Eichel have.
00:46:59
Chris
Right.
00:47:09
Two Man Forecheck
He does, or for that matter, Nylander or Hyman, or even in emergence, ah Matthew Nyes.
00:47:09
Chris
Agreed.
00:47:20
Two Man Forecheck
Like,
00:47:21
Chris
I like Matthew Nyes. I really do. I just don't think he's quite there yet. I mean, talent-wise, he Yes.
00:47:25
Two Man Forecheck
and No, I did say in emergence.
00:47:29
Two Man Forecheck
He is emerging as a next level superstar.
00:47:33
Chris
yes
00:47:33
Two Man Forecheck
I think that five years from now, we're going to say that, you know, if assuming Austin Matthews is still on the same team as Matthew Nyes, that Austin Matthews opened the door so Matthew Nyes could walk through.
00:47:49
Two Man Forecheck
um and anyone of you wants to take that clip and play it back to me in five years, rock on.
00:47:59
Chris
i um I'll go with that. Yeah, I think I just, ah he's not there yet. Yes. Talent wise, sure. He's got it.
00:48:08
Chris
that That big time ability that you're talking about, that big time ability you're talking about.
00:48:13
Two Man Forecheck
He's showing flashes to me.
00:48:17
Chris
Yeah, it it comes. Yeah. Flashes is probably the best way to describe it.
Utah Mammoth Hockey Team Branding
00:48:25
Two Man Forecheck
Okay, so we've talked about the playoffs. I think we've covered everything we want to cover on that. And we he have some other stuff on the board.
00:48:30
Chris
Mm-hmm.
00:48:35
Two Man Forecheck
um So let's dive in wherever you want to go next.
00:48:36
Chris
Hit me with it.
00:48:40
Chris
Hit me with it. I want to be, I want to be wowed. And Utah might actually be trying to do that. Although i don't know that what they've done is they, they've picked a name, ah guess.
00:48:58
Two Man Forecheck
Yes. um I like the name. ah It's not my first choice.
00:49:02
Chris
Really?
00:49:06
Chris
You like the name, huh? Okay.
00:49:09
Two Man Forecheck
is it Does it have that chantability that we were hoping for? No. But the logo is good.
00:49:19
Chris
Okay.
00:49:20
Two Man Forecheck
the It's a unique name. It's a unique look. And I think it fits the team. I think you'll probably end up seeing a a mascot that ends up as recognizable as Gritty, hopefully less annoying.
00:49:42
Two Man Forecheck
um
00:49:46
Chris
hopefully less annoying than gritty. Yes, we we all hope for that.
00:49:51
Two Man Forecheck
But the Utah...
00:49:52
Chris
um im
00:49:53
Two Man Forecheck
franchise has selected mammoth as the name we all know about the legal wrangling around around yeti um i annoyed by it i don't think you can really confuse a travel mug with a hockey team
00:50:03
Chris
We do.
00:50:13
Chris
Is that really what I honestly, and I hate to say this because i try to follow everything as much as I can, but I had no idea what the issue was with them getting the name Yeti for a hockey team.
00:50:26
Two Man Forecheck
Yeah, it came down to...
00:50:27
Chris
It really had to do with the company that makes coolers and coffee mugs.
00:50:31
Two Man Forecheck
Yes.
00:50:31
Chris
And are you serious?
00:50:36
Two Man Forecheck
Dead serious. I mean, on the one hand, yes, I wouldn't want anything damaging my my copy my copyright, and i think that copyright laws exist for a reason.
00:50:47
Two Man Forecheck
On the other hand...
00:50:48
Chris
i'm seeing marketing I'm seeing marketing possibilities here. What is their problem?
00:50:53
Two Man Forecheck
On the other hand, as I said, I don't know how you confuse a cooler for a slap shot or a cross check. I just know.
00:51:05
Chris
That's ridiculous.
00:51:07
Two Man Forecheck
um And I think that the courts got this one wrong in helping settle or the regulatory or the ah trademark office got it wrong.
00:51:17
Chris
That's ridiculous. Wow.
00:51:19
Two Man Forecheck
so I have the link in there. It shows the jerseys with the mammoth on the, uh, on there.
00:51:27
Chris
ute
00:51:28
Two Man Forecheck
Um, if you look carefully, you can see the outline of the state of Utah in the mammoth, uh, in the mammoth head.
00:51:36
Chris
You can.
00:51:38
Two Man Forecheck
it It's pointed out in a couple of articles, uh, trying to describe it, trying to describe it in, uh,
00:51:40
Chris
okay. I'm looking at it and I'm trying to find it, but okay.
00:51:47
Two Man Forecheck
in the podcast is not worth the energy.
00:51:50
Chris
Okay, fair enough.
00:51:50
Two Man Forecheck
I like the clean lines. I like the, and like the fact that they're not using the same shades of blue and white as Toronto and Florida and what feels like seven other teams.
00:52:01
Chris
Yeah, they've got almost like a North Carolina. for I mean, for those who aren't seeing it, it's almost like a North Carolina light, like a Tar Heels light blue if you're a college fan at all.
00:52:12
Chris
um It's a light blue, and I do like it. I'm not against it. I like the fact that they have to two syllables, so it is kind of chantable. yeah Let's go, Mammoth. you know Two syllables works perfectly.
00:52:29
Two Man Forecheck
I suspect we'll see them use the...
00:52:30
Chris
i
00:52:32
Two Man Forecheck
We'll end up seeing them use, like, Charge or Tusker or something like that as a yeah for ah for a mascot at some point, and... I'm happy to see it.
00:52:46
Two Man Forecheck
Like, I think...
00:52:48
Chris
It's better than hockey club.
00:52:48
Two Man Forecheck
ah
NHL Expansion Speculation
00:52:51
Two Man Forecheck
That's... That's a statement.
00:52:55
Chris
It's better than hockey club. I mean, let's go hockey club.
00:52:58
Two Man Forecheck
I really genuinely think that i genuinely think that any team going forward needs to have the name and logo and everything before
00:53:00
Chris
I mean, come on. no
00:53:17
Two Man Forecheck
before they begin play. So when team 33 and 34 and 35 and 36 come into the league.
00:53:26
Chris
You still think there's going to be 36, huh?
00:53:28
Two Man Forecheck
Yep.
00:53:30
Chris
Okay.
00:53:31
Two Man Forecheck
Get your.
00:53:31
Chris
i' not again Again, not against it. I'm just – I still think Houston should get a franchise.
00:53:37
Two Man Forecheck
um For me, I suspect. And we've covered this quite a few times. I think Atlanta and Phoenix and Houston all make sense.
00:53:44
Chris
Oh, yeah.
00:53:49
Two Man Forecheck
Although if it's not Houston, I think either San Antonio or Austin can be made to make sense.
00:53:55
Chris
I still think it's Houston. But yeah, yeah then Texas is big enough that they can support two franchises. I mean, you've got two. you If you can squeeze three of them into one region of California, you can get two into the state of Texas.
00:54:12
Chris
You can get...
00:54:13
Two Man Forecheck
Well, I mean, the three California teams aren't that close.
00:54:17
Chris
really
00:54:17
Two Man Forecheck
I mean, LA and or l a and um Anaheim are close. They're like 30 minutes apart. Well, 30 miles apart. But San Jose is way up at the north end of the state.
00:54:26
Chris
yeah okay
00:54:32
Two Man Forecheck
that's That's the distance between like Atlanta and Boston.
00:54:42
Chris
fair enough i i still think that even if you can
00:54:45
Two Man Forecheck
Now, New York, the New York area, that's a different story. You've got the Rangers and the Islanders and the Devils all within screaming distance of each other and Philly not very far away.
00:54:55
Chris
and And they all have their own significant they own have they they all have their own unique individual fan bases. If you're telling me you can't put two franchchise two NHL franchises into a state the size of Texas,
00:55:11
Chris
then you're not thinking hard enough. You're not thinking enough.
00:55:14
Two Man Forecheck
No, and particularly if Dallas ends up winning the cup this year. Although I don't know if that actually makes a good argument for Texas number two coming right away.
00:55:22
Chris
That changed.
00:55:29
Two Man Forecheck
um i think you'd want to wait a year, a couple of years before announcing Houston slash Austin slash wherever.
00:55:38
Chris
and Yeah, well, like I said, I still think Houston makes sense. the owner The owner of the Rockets, the the basketball team, is open to the idea. I mean, parties are parties are ready.
00:55:56
Chris
you know
00:55:56
Two Man Forecheck
Oh, yeah. um
00:55:57
Chris
It's not going to take a lot. I just...
00:56:05
Chris
I just think that, yes, if you're going to if you're go to expand that size, I'm not against going into – I'm wondering about Atlanta still, but I'm not against going into other locations that aren't as obvious.
00:56:22
Chris
But I still think that the state the size of Texas deserves a second franchise.
00:56:25
Two Man Forecheck
I mean,
00:56:27
Chris
I mean, there should be another one.
00:56:27
Two Man Forecheck
Mark Cuban wanted to buy an NHL franchise years ago, and you could probably still talk him into buying one um if you had... um
00:56:36
Chris
Yeah, but he's in Dallas. I mean, if he was talking about putting one in Dallas, they have one.
00:56:42
Two Man Forecheck
I'm pretty sure that he could be convinced to put it and in another place in the state.
00:56:48
Two Man Forecheck
I assure...
00:56:49
Chris
Okay.
00:56:49
Two Man Forecheck
I'm just about 100% certain that all of his businesses are not in Houston.
00:56:56
Chris
ah Okay, fair enough.
00:57:01
Two Man Forecheck
Um, so what do you overall want to zero to 10? Uh, where do you think of the mammoth Jersey?
00:57:12
Chris
ah I'm at like a 7 or an 8. It's nice. It's going to have to grow on me a little bit. I mean, it took a little time for the Predators logo to grow on me.
00:57:25
Chris
But I like it. i mean...
00:57:29
Two Man Forecheck
Fair deal. Um,
00:57:30
Chris
I like it, better again, like it much better than calling anybody a hockey club.
Team Name and Logo Importance
00:57:35
Chris
we It's documented how much we we weren't happy with the PWHL not naming franchises. And when they finally did, we celebrated that.
00:57:44
Chris
The fact that they're going to do it again with their two expansion teams, kind of not happy about that. I think that they should have, I think that they should have been ready with names.
00:57:57
Chris
So,
00:57:57
Two Man Forecheck
Yeah.
00:57:58
Chris
So yes, getting a name, getting a logo, getting something that the fans can rally behind, something tangible they can sink their teeth into. That is important.
00:58:08
Two Man Forecheck
And
00:58:08
Chris
And this is going to solidify that for them.
00:58:11
Two Man Forecheck
not for nothing, you want to be able to do those grassroots campaigns, you know, you have your When you have your first draft, whether it's the expansion draft or the or the entry draft in the like the NHL, you want to be able to send those kids and those those acquired players out to the hospitals and the homeless shelters and...
00:58:38
Two Man Forecheck
the business and meet and greets with the fans and have them be able to use the name regularly. Hockey club is just not trying.
00:58:50
Two Man Forecheck
It's not trying. um so
00:58:53
Chris
I mean, and and i'm a i'm okay with I'm okay with them having a jersey that says Utah on it. I mean, the Rangers have one that says Ranger, you know, or new it says New York on it. I'm okay with that.
00:59:04
Chris
I just don't think it should be your every 82 game jersey, which is what it was this year.
00:59:10
Two Man Forecheck
No, it's inexcusable. um
00:59:14
Chris
Yeah.
00:59:17
Two Man Forecheck
Let's come local for a little bit and talk about something else that's inexcusable.
00:59:23
Chris
Uh oh, okay. ah we Are we gonna...
00:59:26
Two Man Forecheck
We both know, we both follow the local club ah pretty heavily. We've both seen prospects coming through, you know, going back to...
00:59:33
Chris
Yeah, they they were my first.
00:59:41
Two Man Forecheck
Kyle McLaren and Andrew Raycroft. And even further back, we've talked about the prospect pool for the last several years being decidedly ungood and decidedly flat.
00:59:58
Two Man Forecheck
We talked about the danger of overhyping players, particularly if they ah puff, puff and fail to pass on that hype.
01:00:11
Two Man Forecheck
um
01:00:12
Chris
Okay.
01:00:13
Two Man Forecheck
and we can think of two very notable young men who clearly did not pass on that hype. um And it's happening again, and I want to throw things.
01:00:25
Chris
I, and especially since it's written by your good buddy.
01:00:29
Two Man Forecheck
Very occasionally, that KPD makes a good point, and he at least attempts to make the good point, but he also throws in a bunch of inflammatory horse mucky um that makes me want to throw up.
01:00:49
Two Man Forecheck
um Which prospect are we talking about? The only prospect that we're talking about positively in the last year or so. Dan's Lock Mellis. um His international record is bloody phenomenal.
01:01:06
Two Man Forecheck
He played really, really well over at UMass Amherst. um He made his pro debut um for the Providence Bruins and then jumped ah into the World Hockey Tournament at World Hockey Championships
01:01:32
Two Man Forecheck
And he's looked great everywhere. And people are going to be tempted to compare him and some folks are already doing so to guys who are absolutely going to be in the Raptors and absolutely going into the Hockey Hall of Fame.
01:01:43
Chris
Mm-hmm.
01:01:55
Two Man Forecheck
And for a guy drafted one hundred and nineteenth
01:02:02
Two Man Forecheck
Yes, 119th.
01:02:05
Two Man Forecheck
I find that more than a little ridiculous.
01:02:10
Two Man Forecheck
He has not yet played his seventh regular season professional game. He has not yet finished an NHL training camp.
01:02:21
Two Man Forecheck
In fact, I don't think he's even started an NHL training camp.
01:02:21
Chris
Has he been... was going say, has he been to one yet? Has he been...
01:02:26
Two Man Forecheck
Yes, he had two really good seasons or two seasons over at UMass Amherst. 14 points in as a as sophomore um before going pro.
01:02:43
Two Man Forecheck
He's 21 years old, um not a big guy. but He's listed at six feet. I think that's probably a stretch. He did not look quite that tall the last time we saw him. 172 pounds, whatever. I don't think that that's...
01:03:01
Two Man Forecheck
worth discussing at this point. um Went to Providence and basically set the team on fire for a little bit. Six games, three goals, nine assists, 12 points.
01:03:15
Two Man Forecheck
And then in playoffs, he had one assist in four games. um
01:03:21
Two Man Forecheck
World championships this year, five games, two goals, three assists, plus two,
01:03:30
Two Man Forecheck
I watched his UMass Amherst games. I watched his, I did not get to see his Providence games. I did get to see him at world championships.
01:03:41
Two Man Forecheck
And ah
01:03:45
Two Man Forecheck
what was the other level I saw him at? If you're like DuPont comparing him to Patrice Bergeron,
01:03:51
Chris
At least I'm at DevCamp, but...
01:03:59
Two Man Forecheck
ah you're doing your, well, you're telling me that you're not paying in sufficient attention.
01:04:05
Chris
Well, KPD, who writes for the Boston Globe, in the one, two, three, like the fourth paragraph or so, To anyone who's watched the Bruins over the past 20 plus years, such a list of bona fides summons to mind what Patrice Bergeron, then only 18, brought to Causeway Street in the autumn of 2003. The dedicated, efficient Bergeron shaped his skills into a remarkable Hall of Fame career.
01:04:34
Chris
Book now for that November 26th induction.
01:04:38
Chris
I just, I'm sorry. They did this to, they did this to JFK. And i' not saying that it was I'm not saying that it's the one thing that completely derailed his career.
01:04:48
Two Man Forecheck
Oh, yeah.
NHL Prospects Expectations
01:04:56
Chris
But that kind of pressure, that kind of expectation
01:05:04
Chris
is not good for a player.
01:05:07
Two Man Forecheck
No. And i think Carvel tries to draw out dial it back. He's quoted in the article, next paragraph. Ah, Bergeron, that's a high standard, um and but it's the type of player he is just really good all the way around.
01:05:26
Two Man Forecheck
His defensive game will grow with his physical stature. He's listed in the article as 6'1", 179 pounds, but he'll be a really good player, one who will chip in consistently with offense.
01:05:38
Two Man Forecheck
um For me, and bear in mind that I love these players, I think
01:05:45
Chris
Thank you.
01:05:48
Two Man Forecheck
people should set the expectation that Dan Zlock-Mellis will be some sort of fusion of Rich Peverly and Chris Kelly. If he comes in and plays as a third-line player, third-line center, he he has the legitimate potential to be one of the top three or four third-line centers in the league.
01:06:12
Two Man Forecheck
I will go that far cheerfully.
01:06:17
Two Man Forecheck
Anything above that is, it's turning in cans for five cents and getting $5 on it. Fourth round picks, late fourth round picks, rarely turn into top six players and studs.
01:06:39
Two Man Forecheck
That said, i would love to see it. Absolutely would love to see it because when he was first drafted two, three years ago, he was a tiny little water bug buzzing all over the place and very clearly leaving it all on the ice every shift at dev camp.
01:07:05
Two Man Forecheck
um whatever they have been doing for and with him at UMass Amherst, Greg Carvell and the rest of the staff over there deserve huge accolades for player development.
01:07:16
Two Man Forecheck
den Dan's himself deserves very huge accolades and a reminder that this is only the beginning for having put in the work to improve that much.
01:07:27
Two Man Forecheck
Go.
01:07:28
Chris
You know, I think I like the words of Adam McQuaid best.
01:07:33
Two Man Forecheck
Go.
01:07:34
Chris
He's the club's player development coordinator, former Bruins defenseman, everybody knows, Darth Quater.
01:07:43
Chris
And it says, lock melu he says that Locke Mellis made great physical strides in his second year at UMass, both in terms of contact and shift to shift endurance, made himself a far better candidate to turn pro after just two seasons in Amherst.
01:07:55
Chris
Quote, Dan's is an excellent prospect for us. I am really excited for the step he has taken year over year. If it progresses, then who knows where he is this time next year?
01:08:10
Chris
Who knows what he could accomplish?
01:08:13
Chris
There's no expectations there. It's all about progression. It's all about what he can do or what he's what he can do to improve himself. yeah I am excited for the step he has taken.
01:08:27
Chris
He is a prospect for us. Stop attaching names like Patrice Bergeron or ah Sidney Crosby or oh anybody. you Stop attaching names to a guy who hasn't stepped foot on an n a in in an NHL game.
01:08:50
Chris
It's not helping him. He needs to find that progression. He needs to improve his game. And Adam McQuaid recognizes that.
01:09:02
Chris
That's where we should be with this kid. I like watching him. he was fun to watch it He was fun to watch in Worlds. He was fun to watch it at UMass. But that's all it is.
01:09:15
Chris
I understand that they do comparables all the time when they when somebody's drafted. Oh, what are his comparables? He's comparable to Mikko Rantanen. Well, that's great, but that doesn't mean he's going to be Mikko Rantanen.
01:09:31
Chris
And I think that sometimes we get caught up in ah Patrice Bergeron, somebody like Kevin Paul Dupont, who... whether you want to believe it or not, is a voice that is respected as far as NHL goes.
01:09:49
Chris
So if he's saying it, somebody else is going to repeat it, and so on and so on down the line.
01:09:56
Chris
And that's what happened with JFK when he was drafted. all of a sudden, and whether it was KPD or whether it was another writer, all of a sudden he got tagged with Bergeron 2.0,
01:10:09
Two Man Forecheck
And he was tagged with that even before he was drafted, and it was gross.
01:10:09
Chris
And that's
01:10:13
Chris
that's all we heard, though. that That was the end of it. once Once it was out there, that was it. He's Bergeron 2.0. When he finally gets to Boston and he's not, it was...
01:10:23
Two Man Forecheck
And you can you can make you can make a similar argument for guys like ah Ryan Spooner. The hype was so enormous that they wouldn't have even had to have been the player that they were being compared to.
01:10:36
Two Man Forecheck
um In his case, it was a lot of Krejci and Savard. um They would have had to have been better. And... um Because let's see, you had... ah No, and just no.
01:10:54
Two Man Forecheck
Koklychev, another guy who the hype was so ridiculous that even had they turned into a serious NHL player... They'd never have moved up to it.
01:11:09
Chris
It was a little bit of a twist with Coco. I understand that, yes, there were expectations, but Coco didn't help himself by promoting.
01:11:18
Two Man Forecheck
Being a flake.
01:11:19
Chris
It's one thing to promote yourself. It's one thing to have high beliefs in yourself, but he went over and above when it came time to playing time and what he deserved or what he should, you how good he was. He got a little bit ahead of himself there too. I mean, but yes, there were expectations placed on him as well.
01:11:48
Chris
And I think he took those to heart. Again, it's, it's all in the mind. I think he took those to heart. Expectations led to him believing those expectations and believing that he was meeting those expectations when he wasn't.
01:12:03
Chris
or he was down in Providence, but whenever they called him up, it wasn't the same thing. I mean, there is a difference between playing in Providence and playing in Boston. I'm sorry.
01:12:12
Two Man Forecheck
Oh, yeah. um
01:12:21
Two Man Forecheck
So enjoy Dan's luck. Melis. ah He will play in the NHL, I suspect. But let his talent show itself.
01:12:34
Two Man Forecheck
Stop.
01:12:35
Chris
Yes.
01:12:35
Two Man Forecheck
Stop for his sake, for everyone's sake. pretending that this new kid, whoever they happen to be, whether it's Loc Mellis or whoever comes up after him, is the second coming of anyone. They're the first coming of themselves. And sometimes that new whatever is not great.
01:12:59
Two Man Forecheck
Um...
01:13:04
Two Man Forecheck
Um, the coaching search includes a couple of names who you and I have talked about before, at least according to the speculation.
Boston Bruins Coaching Search
01:13:14
Chris
I found this one for you, Mike.
01:13:16
Two Man Forecheck
Um, Elliot Friedman says that the Bruins have talked to, that he's heard they've interviewed about 15 guys.
01:13:28
Two Man Forecheck
um,
01:13:28
Chris
15 guys. I'm sitting here saying that they're not doing their due diligence, but...
01:13:33
Two Man Forecheck
But looking at the guys that they're interviewing,
01:13:39
Two Man Forecheck
does any of these say long-term success? Or Jay Leach?
01:13:43
Chris
No.
01:13:46
Two Man Forecheck
Meh. Jeff Halpern? Meh. Jeff Blasio? Meh. Mitch Love? Hadn't even heard of him before.
01:13:54
Chris
Washington assistant. i had to It was in the article or I wouldn't have known. yeah
01:13:59
Two Man Forecheck
But in terms of like him being a an NHL head coach, I mean, yes, I've talked about Marco Sturm off and on the last several years. I think that he could be a fit.
01:14:12
Two Man Forecheck
But if you're any of these guys and you know that Don Sweeney has one year left on his contract, are you really...
01:14:25
Two Man Forecheck
eager to jump in knowing that you could be gone in a year. If there's a of a new general manager and even a new president come in um and decide to go with the new broom approach.
01:14:41
Chris
That's, and that, and and that's the biggest challenge right there is who do you convince to come in knowing that
01:14:49
Chris
with them, knowing that you could potentially be gone and a new GM is going to want to bring in their own people.
01:14:58
Chris
That's the biggest challenge right now is he can interview half the, he can interview half the head, the assistant coaches in in the NHL. you need to find that that one that's going to be okay with the fact that you might be gone, and then I'm going to be looking for a new job after one year.
01:15:18
Chris
That's why I'm saying you go with somebody who's not necessarily on the coaching treadmill. You find somebody who can use it as a way to get their feet wet.
01:15:29
Chris
If he has a better season than last season, I'm not saying he has to win the Stanley Cup, but if he can get them back to middle of the pack or had prayer excuse me, prayer of prayers, get themselves into wildcard position. Cause I'm not, I'm not going to ah convince myself that they're going to be winning president's trophy or first in the East or whatever.
01:15:59
Chris
but if he But if this if this new head coach can be better than last year and take this bunch of guys, get them together, get them into a wildcard spot or just outside of the playoffs, but definitely an improvement on this past season, then you've got a good chance of a new GM wanting to keep you around.
01:15:59
Two Man Forecheck
You're sure?
01:16:21
Chris
And even if they don't, you've got it on your resume that you were an NHL head coach for the Boston Bruins and that you were able to improve upon a season where they were absolutely rubbish.
01:16:34
Chris
it I just don't think that getting a name for the sake of getting a name is good enough. Bringing in Jeff Blasio. Jeff Blasio was head coach of the Red for
01:16:48
Chris
let's say at least five years. I don't know exactly how many it was. Eisenman came in, kept him because he was hired before Eisenman won. Eisenman came in, kept him, gave him a chance to prove himself. When he didn't, Eisenman finally went, eh, nope, see ya.
01:17:06
Chris
I just, I don't, that's, I don't think that's the right move. And as far as Sturm goes, Sturm is somebody that the Bruins fans can actually relate to. They actually recognize the name.
01:17:18
Chris
if they think back hard enough, they'll remember him from the winner, from the winter classic when he scores the game winner. I mean, it's built in. If you bring him in, he's familiar with the, he's familiar with the fan base.
01:17:32
Chris
He's not necessarily familiar with the players that are.
01:17:33
Two Man Forecheck
I think the fan base would trust him the most of the guys that were named.
01:17:38
Chris
Yeah.
01:17:39
Two Man Forecheck
And I think the fan base is most likely to give him the longest leash.
01:17:45
Two Man Forecheck
But...
01:17:46
Chris
Yeah. Bring. Bring in a Blasio or Halpern or helper and whatever. i don't think that they're going to be like... you're gonna if if they come in and they lose ten if they lose seven of their first 12 games, people are going to be crying for their heads. Sturm comes in and loses seven of his first 12.
01:18:05
Chris
They might be more willing to forgive him a little bit and give him a ah a chance to improve it.
01:18:14
Two Man Forecheck
I, there's a lot to be said for that. Um, and I think that one of the simple truths is um one of the other things that's worth noting is that Sturm has that relationship with some of the, him and Chris Kelly overlapped briefly.
01:18:35
Two Man Forecheck
and don't remember if him and McQuaid overlapped, um, But it be having those relationships in before you even arrive, um i think that that's a i think that has some potential to make the rebuild on the fly or retool, if you want to call it that, a little bit more likely.
01:19:02
Two Man Forecheck
i mean, yes, I think that one or two of the prospects that and players that Sweeney has managed to pick up uh, as he blew up the team this year. Um, they, they have the potential to be really, uh, really solid NHL players.
01:19:18
Two Man Forecheck
I think Frazier Minton. Yep. He could, he could come in. um I think that the,
01:19:27
Two Man Forecheck
uh, there's a couple of other youngsters. Um, you know, you had the best player in the USHL was one of the guys that they picked up. Um, But the USHL is not the NHL. you have to You have to show it in the NHL.
01:19:45
Two Man Forecheck
And you also have to wonder how McAvoy and Hampus Lindholm are going to recover from their injuries. Are they going to get off to a good start? Are they going to start the season on time?
01:19:59
Two Man Forecheck
um Is Elias Lindholm going to be the guy that we used to see in Vancouver or the guy that we saw here all year?
01:20:10
Two Man Forecheck
And all of that's going to figure into a coach potentially deciding to come here or not. And I think the guys who have the option of sticking around a year or two where they are might just take that option.
01:20:18
Chris
I do like the fact that... but
01:20:27
Chris
I do like the fact that Don Sweeney has completely made it sound like they should be thankful that he's can he's contacting them. When Sweeney spoke after the NHL draft lottery earlier this month, he was pleased with the feedback.
01:20:43
Chris
this is an exciting opportunity for coaches to be interviewing for this position. And that's an indication they will be very excited about maybe being the head coach of the Boston Bruin, not he's looking for them.
01:20:54
Chris
They should be excited that he's giving them the opportunity is the way he's,
01:20:57
Two Man Forecheck
Oh, we heard that during the press conference at the season wrap. And i wanted to gag then and I still kind of want to gag now. Um,
01:21:07
Chris
that's the that That's the first and foremost thing that comes across. Happy to be part of the selection of being interviewed. And more fortunate they are. Are you serious?
01:21:18
Chris
I think they are starting to gather information on the roster and the players that we have in place. And first question people ask in terms of how healthy we're going to be and the return to the full health so that players that they expect impact from will be back to do what they do.
01:21:33
Chris
But the overriding excitement as we are to turn a page and come to the decision that we've got the right guy in place.
01:21:41
Chris
Like they should be on their knees thanking him for this opportunity. Are you serious? Are serious?
01:21:47
Two Man Forecheck
I mean, it just so...
01:21:53
Chris
and I'm sorry.
01:21:53
Two Man Forecheck
There's no other word for it.
01:21:53
Chris
is it Is there, I was going to say, is there an edifice complex going on here?
01:21:54
Two Man Forecheck
Arrogant.
01:22:00
Two Man Forecheck
I mean, there's just no other word other than arrogant. should a Now, should a general manager believe that their team is a desirable place to go?
01:22:12
Two Man Forecheck
Yes.
01:22:13
Chris
That's fine, but this is over the top.
01:22:16
Two Man Forecheck
I mean, this is this is a don't sample your own product level of goofy. Yeah.
01:22:24
Chris
He's sampling product, all right.
01:22:29
Chris
I just, I, ah no. You had a terrible season. Your team was rubbish. You fired your head coach that you shouldn't have fired way too early to begin with, but you shouldn't have rid of him at all.
01:22:41
Chris
The guy you brought in was meh in his last head coaching job and proved to be meh in this head coaching job. And yet somehow is given a pass all the way to the end.
01:22:50
Two Man Forecheck
i
01:22:55
Two Man Forecheck
I kind of feel like the next head coach of the Bruins is going to be another lame duck like Dave Lewis.
01:23:03
Chris
Uncle dave
01:23:04
Two Man Forecheck
I think it's going to be a coach that's just that
01:23:09
Chris
was uncle Dave. the only one in that and Was Uncle Dave the only one in that scenario that didn't know he was a lame duck?
01:23:15
Two Man Forecheck
yes.
01:23:17
Chris
I thought so too.
01:23:20
Chris
I mean, he came in from a Stanley Cup winning team. Everybody thought Dave Lewis had great options, but
01:23:27
Chris
Early on, I think it would it became known that he was not going to be the long-term ah
01:23:35
Chris
factor in this organization.
01:23:38
Two Man Forecheck
he was ah He was missing several key factors that make for successful coaches, like knowing how to deploy your players and stuff like that.
01:23:48
Chris
ah You know, kind of important stuff. You know, kind of important.
01:23:51
Two Man Forecheck
Yeah.
01:23:54
Chris
something that might be considered important, you know, knowing when to deploy certain tactics and certain, but certain players at certain times. And, you know,
01:24:02
Two Man Forecheck
And not punishing your players for the bad officiating...
01:24:12
Chris
that wasn't entertaining to you though.
01:24:16
Two Man Forecheck
No. No, it was not.
01:24:20
Chris
I just, he's turning this into a joke. I mean, The Rangers went out, got their guy, and
01:24:32
Two Man Forecheck
Now, whether the Rangers made the right choice for their roster or not is a separate question, but but they at least made a choice.
01:24:39
Chris
But that wasn't my point. my point that was My point was that they made a decision. Don Sweeney is sitting there with his thumb somewhere that we don't want to mention.
01:24:52
Chris
And I honestly believe, and I've said it before, that he is waiting to see where everybody else falls and what's left.
01:25:03
Chris
I've changed that thought because I said it to you earlier before we started recording. Now I think that he's actually not waiting for what's left. He's waiting to see who other people are going for so that he can try to poach them before they do.
01:25:19
Chris
Because Mitch Love, the assistant from Washington that's mentioned in this article, it's also mentioned that Pittsburgh is shown has shown interest in him. So we could end up with Mitch Love as our head coach.
01:25:33
Two Man Forecheck
He...
01:25:36
Chris
i Seriously, that's where i think that's what I think when I see Don Sweeney. I think that he's not – and it's based on his trades and his his drafting and everything else.
01:25:52
Chris
I don't think he's good at making decisions.
01:25:57
Two Man Forecheck
the he has a desperate need to be the smartest guy in the league 365 days a week, a year. And he genuinely thinks it's possible.
01:26:10
Two Man Forecheck
um And I think some of it is just analysis paralysis.
01:26:17
Two Man Forecheck
I mean, as a, as a general manager, you have more time to think about stuff than you do as a defensive defenseman. He's just not made the adjustment.
01:26:31
Two Man Forecheck
um
01:26:31
Chris
Okay.
01:26:32
Two Man Forecheck
and I think this is where we're going to leave you. We're going to run a poll on Jack Eichel. um He's expected to get a contract extension this summer.
01:26:45
Two Man Forecheck
um it's all that ah It's all that the Vegas media is talking about. Yes, his contract isn't over until the end of next year. um Next week, we're going be comparing him to austin matthews and some of the other top uh centers his age and we'll see but we're going to run the poll on percentages on like cap percentage uh cap hit percentage and what people think um it's going to land at so
01:27:17
Chris
So are we thinking that he might not res resign with Vegas? I mean, is that the...
01:27:24
Two Man Forecheck
ah No, I think he's going to get the extension this summer, but we are out of time.
01:27:25
Chris
or
01:27:31
Two Man Forecheck
So that is where we're going to leave you. Thank you go once again for listening, folks. Have a great week. Share the show with your friends, family, random people you meet on the subway, air airplane, and ah in the doctor's office.
01:27:47
Two Man Forecheck
Take care.