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00:00:00
00:00:01
Two Man ForeCheck Episode 415A
4 Plays1 year ago
Mitch Marner, Stanley Cup Finals, the mythic "Sun Belt Problem" ...
Recommended
Transcript
Stanley Cup Finals Preview: Oilers vs. Panthers
00:00:00
Two Man Forecheck
Good evening, Chris.
00:00:05
Chris
Good evening, Mike.
00:00:08
Two Man Forecheck
We are one series away from the worst season of the year.
00:00:17
Chris
Worst time of the year, yeah.
00:00:20
Chris
And no, we're not in two days.
00:00:21
Two Man Forecheck
In two days, the Stanley Cup finals will begin with a rematch from last year between the Edmonton Oilers, who have been slightly retooled, and the Florida Panthers, who have also been slightly retooled.
00:00:36
Two Man Forecheck
Obviously, this is a very big topic for a number of reasons. There are so many ways to look at this series and what it means to the NHL, what it means to hockey, what it means to fans, what it means to revenue.
Boston Bruins' Offseason Challenges
00:00:50
Two Man Forecheck
um
00:00:51
Chris
It means there's no parity in hockey.
00:00:52
Two Man Forecheck
But there are other topics to discuss, too. The Boston Bruins have several RFAs that probably need deals and some that are going to end up ah elsewhere.
00:01:04
Two Man Forecheck
The PWHL having their expansion draft and their and their entry draft, plus their free agency period. So lots and lots of going stuff going on there.
00:01:15
Chris
and And they crowned a new champion.
00:01:15
Two Man Forecheck
And we have a few other stories. Where or where do we want to go?
00:01:22
Chris
Oh, I have no idea. iss just ah
00:01:29
Chris
what's going on with oh hey What's going on with Mitch
Mitch Marner Trade Rumors
00:01:32
Chris
Marner? Because I'm just, every time I turn around, somebody else is rumored that they're they're in the lead for Mitch Marner. Somebody else is rumored that they're going to get a, oh, his best fit would be in, ah his best fit would be to go to, I saw one that said Utah would be a good place for him.
00:01:51
Two Man Forecheck
Well, according to the rumor mill, Mitch Marner is going to all 31 teams who are not Toronto and staying in Toronto.
00:01:59
Chris
Yes, that was actually something I saw was that not only was he rumored to be going elsewhere, but he's also rumored to be staying, which, okay, that's the worst rumor because I don't think he's staying anywhere near Toronto.
00:02:13
Chris
I could be wrong. I'm not perfect, unfortunately. but I don't think he's staying in Toronto. I think that there's just too much. After the way that series that series ended, with Mitch Marnie yelling at the bench in Game 7 and everybody blaming him because they lost, not the team as a whole, him.
00:02:40
Two Man Forecheck
Yes, it wasn't about their goaltending.
00:02:40
Chris
Toronto fans blamed
00:02:42
Two Man Forecheck
It wasn't about the fact that their goal scorers stopped scoring goals.
00:02:47
Chris
Toronto fans blamed him. He was the reason they lost.
00:02:53
Two Man Forecheck
Toronto fans are out to lunch.
00:02:55
Chris
and
00:02:59
Two Man Forecheck
Flat out out to lunch to blame him.
00:02:59
Chris
A little bit.
00:03:02
Chris
And I feel bad because i feel bad because I really like Paul Bisson.
00:03:02
Two Man Forecheck
His production...
00:03:06
Chris
I really love Bisson. I mean, you watch TNT so you can see him during the intermissions. He's probably the best on the panel.
00:03:16
Two Man Forecheck
Yes, he's.
00:03:16
Chris
But
00:03:17
Two Man Forecheck
And when I say when we say this, we both mean as an analyst and as an entertainer.
00:03:18
Chris
he
00:03:24
Chris
yes, but the way he thinks that they should run it back, sign him again, run it back, the is the true definition of insanity. and The definition is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Austin Matthews' Playoff Performance
00:03:44
Two Man Forecheck
And i mean, the biggest problem is Austin Matthews is not a playoff performer. We've seen this. He doesn't get.
00:03:58
Two Man Forecheck
he He's not it. He's he's Rick Nash. He's a regular season dude. And that's it.
00:04:08
Chris
And that's it.
00:04:09
Two Man Forecheck
That's it.
00:04:09
Chris
Yeah, there is no, well, is he that bad? I mean,
00:04:15
Two Man Forecheck
Yes.
00:04:15
Chris
I don't remember. i don't remember. his Were his numbers that bad? Is he a third of a point per game in the playoffs?
00:04:21
Two Man Forecheck
um It's not so much that he is that his total production drops. It's that he goes from being a goal scorer to being a distributor. And you really can't reverse your role like that when you're one of the three or four best regular season goal scorers in the league.
00:04:39
Chris
Well, isn't that a case of you got to go to the, you got to go to the, you got to dance with the one that brought you.
00:04:44
Two Man Forecheck
Pretty much.
00:04:44
Chris
So if you're a goal scorer, when you get to the playoffs, keep being a goal scorer?
00:04:50
Two Man Forecheck
Yeah.
00:04:50
Chris
Just saying.
00:04:52
Two Man Forecheck
It's not complicated.
00:04:54
Chris
have you Have you seen anywhere, since we're back to Mitch Marner before i I get all bleh, Mitch Marner has a list of seven or eight teams, and this is and NHL rumor report.
00:05:06
Chris
I've never heard of this. Is this a new thing?
00:05:08
Two Man Forecheck
It's NHL Rumor Reports reporting on what ah Dave Paginot or of the...
00:05:08
Chris
No.
00:05:13
Chris
Dave Pagnotta.
00:05:16
Two Man Forecheck
yes
00:05:17
Chris
Yeah, i like Dave Pagnotta sometimes. Most of the time.
00:05:19
Two Man Forecheck
Sometimes, yes. um
00:05:20
Chris
Most of the time. Sometimes he's a little...
00:05:22
Two Man Forecheck
Is reporting.
00:05:23
Chris
Wow.
00:05:23
Two Man Forecheck
And the list didn't... Dave Pagnotti is behind the fourth period. This post has him linked to Vegas, Los Angeles, San Jose, Columbus, and Anaheim.
00:05:39
Two Man Forecheck
Now, aside from the paycheck...
00:05:39
Chris
Wow.
00:05:44
Two Man Forecheck
I literally can't see him going to have any reason to go to any of those teams except for Vegas and arguably LA. San Jose is awful.
00:05:55
Chris
I'm just, I'm just, yeah, i
00:05:57
Two Man Forecheck
Anaheim is awful. Columbus isn't very good. Los Angeles is okay.
00:06:04
Chris
I'm just curious. ah I mean, I look at those five teams and that's, you know it says a list of seven or eight. Is he interested in going to a Boston or in New York? And if not, why, what, why not?
00:06:18
Two Man Forecheck
ah Have you seen the management situation in Boston and New York?
00:06:19
Chris
Um,
00:06:22
Chris
I understand that, but they're also original six teams. They're also bigger markets. And the lack of a Canadian market listed is also interesting to me.
00:06:35
Two Man Forecheck
ah i ah Canadian market, American market, i think it I don't think it matters nearly as much.
00:06:42
Chris
he's in the biggest He's in the biggest Canadian market there is right now.
00:06:42
Two Man Forecheck
um
00:06:46
Chris
And he's not going to be there come July first
00:06:51
Two Man Forecheck
Well, he might still be there July 1st, but July 5th, probably not.
00:06:56
Chris
I mean, the only other decent-sized market is Montreal.
00:06:56
Two Man Forecheck
um
00:07:01
Chris
I mean, maybe Vancouver.
00:07:03
Two Man Forecheck
Vancouver is still a big market.
00:07:03
Chris
but
00:07:05
Two Man Forecheck
um
00:07:08
Two Man Forecheck
But you're right, you're right, 100% that Toronto is the gorilla for
00:07:08
Chris
Calgary, Winnipeg.
00:07:14
Two Man Forecheck
for canada um if i were him
00:07:21
Two Man Forecheck
A market I would target in order to improve my chances of winning a cup that can actually afford me right now. And would allow me to play with some really high-end players.
00:07:39
Chris
What, Vegas?
00:07:41
Two Man Forecheck
Vegas is definitely on the list, but if you're staying in the East... you absolutely have to consider New Jersey. They've got $21 million dollars in cap space going into the off season.
Player Priorities: Winning vs. Paydays
00:07:56
Chris
Is he just going... and that and And that's the biggest question for me. Because if that's the main reason he's going somewhere, then part of me doesn't want him anyway. If the main reason he's going somewhere is to get the biggest paycheck, I understand that they i understand that all players, all all sports players, they have a limited window.
00:08:19
Chris
I get that.
00:08:19
Two Man Forecheck
yep
00:08:20
Chris
So yes, chasing the big payday is something they should do. But if that's the only reason, or if that's eighty ninety percent of your reason... And you're going because if Columbus or Anaheim come up with a huge payday and he decides to go there, then I'm questioning whether it's his desire to win or his just desire to get paid.
00:08:47
Two Man Forecheck
I don't think there's anything wrong with either one, but yes, the question but question does need to be asked.
00:08:50
Chris
There's nothing wrong with wanting to get paid. I get that, but
00:08:55
Two Man Forecheck
do you want to win or do you want to get paid?
00:09:01
Chris
Because if that's the case, I mean, it's not like Boston isn't going to have the money. And it would be intriguing to see him in a spoke B.
00:09:12
Two Man Forecheck
ah But is he going even with him, is that is the current Bruins roster, if he's their big offseason ad, is that does that make him a playoff team?
00:09:25
Chris
I don't know, because I don't know if he scores enough. And I don't know how – I'm still wondering how much of a – I shouldn't question his two-way ability. He's better than Austin Matthews.
00:09:41
Chris
But they need – don't know.
00:09:44
Two Man Forecheck
As currently constituted, the Boston Bruins need everything.
00:09:46
Chris
Austin needs – yeah. i died i i'm I'm deluding myself if I think otherwise. Yeah, that's true.
00:09:57
Chris
I'd like to see it. Is it going to suddenly make them ah a Stanley Cup final winner? No.
00:10:07
Chris
They need other pieces. and You need defense. I want to say you need defense. They got a lot of defense, and we didn't have McAvoy part of the year. We didn't have Lindholm most of the year.
00:10:23
Chris
and and how much of a change is that going to make to have them healthy and playing a full season?
00:10:28
Two Man Forecheck
Oh, it make it will make a big difference. Will it actually make them a playoff team? I don't know because I don't think that they have. I don't think so because I don't think that they have the offensive prowess up front.
00:10:41
Two Man Forecheck
um
00:10:41
Chris
They rely too heavily on one guy.
00:10:45
Two Man Forecheck
It's the David Pasternak show right now. And as talented a goal scorer as he is.
00:10:48
Chris
Exactly.
Oilers' Scoring Depth Analysis
00:10:52
Two Man Forecheck
he's not going to drag the team single-handedly into the playoffs any more than um then ah Alex Ovechkin used to when he was the only player on the team.
00:10:52
Chris
And then
00:11:03
Chris
And as much as I'm not a huge fan of Edmonton, they are more than just the economy. of Yes, he gets all the attention. Yes, he gets calls not made against him. and i mean, I've commented many times, at least that's the way it looks to me.
00:11:23
Two Man Forecheck
Oh, he absolutely gets away with infractions that even Crosby wouldn't have gotten away with.
00:11:29
Chris
But unfortunately, I have to admit that Edmonton has more than just him scoring goals. You've got dry saddle. You've got Hyman. Who's now out.
00:11:40
Chris
You've got Evander Kane who can put the puck in the net. Corey Perry.
00:11:43
Two Man Forecheck
get the most overlooked man in the league, Nugent Hopkins.
00:11:47
Chris
Ryzen, Eugene Hopp. They have offensive capabilities from both their top six or their top 12. twelve If you want to go one lines, one through four.
00:11:59
Chris
And they have Bouchard who can put the puck in the net on defense. I mean, They have other ways of scoring, and that's something that the Bruins don't have right now. They rely too heavily on Pasternak.
00:12:10
Chris
yes kind Yes, Morgan Gigi had ah breakout year. I mean, 30-plus goals is huge, but you've got to show me he's going to do it again before I'm going to really – I like the guy, yes.
00:12:16
Two Man Forecheck
I mean, if you want...
00:12:24
Chris
you And you point it out all the time, and I'll be the first to admit, I thought it was the greatest $2 million dollars per year signing. considering what he gave the team, but he's got to do it again.
00:12:35
Two Man Forecheck
And that's that's a thing that I have less belief in than you do. um Another team I haven't seen him b linked to um which I think might, and and and I'm not 100% sure that I think he's actually a great fit for there.
00:12:54
Two Man Forecheck
um
00:12:55
Chris
Oh, wait, no.
00:12:56
Two Man Forecheck
Financially, it would work. He's slightly older than a lot of their core players, um and they actually have the cap space, although they really, they're probably going to lose, and they need to do something because they're probably going to lose to ah two players, two forwards, one of whom has to be counted as part of the core.
00:13:21
Two Man Forecheck
um I think that Vancouver is an interesting landing spot. You still have Elias Patterson. You still have Jake DeBrusque and Connor Garland and Philip Cheadle, Nils Hoglander, Josh Dakota up front.
00:13:33
Two Man Forecheck
You got Quinn Hughes in the back. um
00:13:36
Chris
Do they play Pedersen as a center?
00:13:36
Two Man Forecheck
You've got
00:13:39
Chris
I know he's listed as a center
00:13:40
Two Man Forecheck
Patterson as a center slash left wing, yeah.
00:13:44
Chris
because Marner plays what? Right wing.
00:13:48
Two Man Forecheck
Usually, yes.
00:13:51
Chris
I'm just trying to think what kind of line you would have if you put Pedersen in the middle and and, or if you put Pedersen on the left, Marner on the right, who would you center that line with? You don't have JT anymore.
00:14:05
Two Man Forecheck
I would be more, me personally, I would be more inclined to put Peterson in the middle and see how he looks with Marner and DeBrusque.
00:14:16
Chris
The breast is not a left winger though.
00:14:21
Two Man Forecheck
um They have him listed as left-right, and we've seen him play both left and right.
00:14:21
Chris
yeah
00:14:26
Chris
He looks, yeah I mean, I agree, but he looks more, he looks, he looks better playing the right side than he does the left.
00:14:36
Two Man Forecheck
um And adding a talent like that probably increases the chances you can get Quinn Hughes to stay and not abscond for Jersey.
00:14:45
Chris
ah
00:14:47
Two Man Forecheck
but abscon for new jersey
00:14:49
Chris
greener pasture Greener pastures.
00:14:53
Two Man Forecheck
He wants to play with his brothers.
00:14:57
Chris
Yes, the Sedins wanted to play together too.
00:14:58
Two Man Forecheck
That's what everyone's been saying. He wants to play with his brothers.
00:15:05
Chris
Is that enough to get the Devils to bring him in though?
00:15:10
Chris
And is he going to give the Devils some kind of discount if he does want to, you know, how badly do you want to play with your brothers?
00:15:15
Two Man Forecheck
He
00:15:17
Chris
Are you willing to, knock off a million or two a year to to to play with your brothers.
00:15:25
Two Man Forecheck
He's UFA at the end of 26-27 season. As far as the Hughes and Jersey Jack is saying through the end the 29-30 season. Luke is...
00:15:38
Two Man Forecheck
um jack isang through the end of the twenty nine thirty s season
00:15:44
Chris
and Okay.
00:15:45
Two Man Forecheck
um luke is
00:15:48
Chris
Luke is still an RFA. Luke lu is still.
00:15:52
Two Man Forecheck
Luke is still a bubble player if we're going to be... we're going to...
00:15:56
Chris
But isn't, isn't, is he still on his entry level?
00:16:03
Chris
Has he been around too? Am I, am I missing my timeframe here?
00:16:06
Two Man Forecheck
I think he should be off his entry level, but... um
00:16:19
Chris
yeah You're going to make me look that one up. But, I mean, either way, it would be interesting to see where he – like I said, I've seen him linked. I've seen articles that say, oh, he – Utah. And I'm like, how how does that work? I don't see that.
00:16:36
Chris
I'm missing something.
00:16:39
Two Man Forecheck
Luke's entry level expires at the end of the 25-26 season.
00:16:44
Chris
Oh, so he's still on an entry level. There we go. right.
00:16:46
Two Man Forecheck
Yeah. um But Utah, I mean, Utah does need help. um
00:16:54
Chris
I'm not saying they don't. I'm just...
00:16:57
Two Man Forecheck
I think that Utah has sort of become one of those sexy places for everyone to go.
00:17:04
Chris
Well, now that they have a name.
00:17:07
Two Man Forecheck
Now that the Mammoths are a real thing, um with a pretty nice jersey and logo.
00:17:11
Chris
Now that they have a name, everybody wants to go there. Or everybody's rumored to go there.
00:17:20
Chris
They didn't want to play for the Utah Hockey Club, but they want to play it for the Utah Mammoth.
00:17:27
Two Man Forecheck
As one does.
00:17:28
Chris
and I'm just saying now they got a name, you know, very important stuff there.
00:17:35
Two Man Forecheck
I mean, for
00:17:35
Chris
ah
00:17:37
Two Man Forecheck
For Mitch Marner, it would be a big change to go to a team like Utah. While he would have less paparazzi following him around,
00:17:50
Chris
A lot.
00:17:52
Two Man Forecheck
he would also become the guy there. There's not a player who has a chance of being more famous in the next three years than him.
00:18:05
Two Man Forecheck
I mean, Logan Cooley, sure, maybe in three to five years.
00:18:05
Chris
Uh, scanning, scanning.
00:18:11
Two Man Forecheck
Maybe.
00:18:12
Chris
Scanning, scanning.
00:18:14
Two Man Forecheck
Maybe. lee um and Josh Doan. so
00:18:22
Chris
Isn't Mitch Marner right about their average age, like 26?
00:18:26
Two Man Forecheck
Marner, I think, is a little older than that now. he's I think he came into the league in the 27th season, so...
00:18:34
Chris
Oh, wow.
00:18:34
Two Man Forecheck
I'm saying the 17 season rather. He's 28.
00:18:37
Chris
Okay. No, fair enough. I'm just saying he's not exactly – not that that team is by any stretch old. I mean their average age is 26.5 on the forward side. A little older on defense
00:18:51
Chris
at 29.6. But
00:18:56
Chris
I guess maybe he would fit in better than I thought. I mean if he's –
00:19:00
Two Man Forecheck
he's twenty eight
00:19:02
Chris
Okay, so he's ever so slightly older than their average age. He's...
00:19:07
Two Man Forecheck
um He just turned 28 at the beginning of last month.
00:19:12
Chris
So he would fit in. and Maybe it would work then. ah Yes, he would definitely be the most famous player or the biggest name player on the team. Except maybe Mikhail Sergeyev.
00:19:27
Two Man Forecheck
a I don't know that Sergeyev has anywhere near as much cachet. But I think that the Marner rumors are fascinating because they do touch on ah some of the other issues like be an ain but the what the NHL or certain NHL observers, most of them living north of us, ah perceived to be a Sunbelt problem.
Tax Advantages for Sunbelt Teams
00:19:54
Chris
Do we have a Sunbelt problem? I mean...
00:19:57
Two Man Forecheck
We've been hearing about this for two, three years at this point.
00:20:00
Chris
i mean, the fact that the fact that both Florida teams tend to make the... I mean, yes, it it took a few years. Florida was like the... the redheaded stepchild who kind of didn't, they they do they were just kind of there up until what, three or four years ago when they started making serious runs. This is their third year in a row in the final.
00:20:21
Two Man Forecheck
Yes. I mean, want either the Panthers or the Tampa Bay Lightning have been in the Eastern Conference Finals for the last like five or six years.
00:20:34
Two Man Forecheck
And each of them has won at least one cup. um The perception among certain fans is that the tax imbalance between various locations is the issue.
00:20:52
Chris
What Florida has no income tax.
00:20:54
Two Man Forecheck
Texas has a very limited taxation structure. um And Carolina has a lot lower taxes than some places.
00:21:07
Two Man Forecheck
But here's the thing.
00:21:10
Chris
But California has very high taxes.
00:21:12
Two Man Forecheck
California has very high taxes.
00:21:13
Chris
Hmm.
00:21:14
Two Man Forecheck
No one was complaining about the Sunbelt teams being a problem when Dallas so and tampa sock and florida south and the capital sucked and and McCain sucked and the Predators sucked.
00:21:26
Chris
Florida sucked.
00:21:34
Two Man Forecheck
And before Vegas was a real team, even a glimmer. um
00:21:39
Chris
Because Vegas never sucked.
00:21:39
Two Man Forecheck
And back when Anaheim was terrible, ah well, the beginning of the terrible period post-Tamina,
00:21:40
Chris
Sorry.
00:21:46
Two Man Forecheck
Perry and Getzlaff at their peak.
00:21:51
Chris
Yeah.
00:21:51
Two Man Forecheck
um I mean, we heard complaints during that blip when the Anaheim Ducks won and then a couple of years later, the LA Kings won.
00:22:02
Two Man Forecheck
But it seems to only be a problem when the Florida teams are winning when the Southern teams are winning.
00:22:08
Chris
But now it's now it's becoming more of a regular thing. Dallas is making the playoffs, making deep playoff runs. Florida, Tampa Bay.
00:22:19
Chris
yeah Now all of a sudden, all of your, dare I say, best teams or teams that are making the deepest runs are south of the Mason-Dixon.
00:22:31
Two Man Forecheck
And the perception is that this is a problem and it's what's causing the ratings issues. Now, even the NFL has its ratings slipping because people are moving away from terrestrial TV in case and cable, which is why we keep seeing deals like the WWE wwe moving to Netflix and AEW now streaming on Macs um because there's changes in how entertainment is consumed.
00:22:38
Chris
The ratings issues.
00:23:00
Two Man Forecheck
But here's the real issue.
00:23:03
Chris
Wait, wait, wait.
00:23:06
Chris
Are we consuming of this content because of sport? Or is sport just going the way that consumers are viewing content?
00:23:21
Two Man Forecheck
Both.
00:23:23
Chris
Really?
00:23:24
Two Man Forecheck
It's both.
00:23:25
Chris
i See, I would have thought the latter.
00:23:25
Two Man Forecheck
Um,
00:23:26
Chris
I would have thought sport was going this way because people are getting of their content all of their content on streaming or online or me.
00:23:36
Two Man Forecheck
Well, that's the thing. People have been cable cutting for two decades um in one manner or another.
00:23:44
Chris
Right.
00:23:44
Two Man Forecheck
And sports who are who need consistent revenue in order to work, they can't just decide to call it in with a and throw up a wall of infomercials all day long for programming.
Canadian Teams' Stanley Cup Drought
00:24:00
Two Man Forecheck
um
00:24:01
Chris
and Okay.
00:24:01
Two Man Forecheck
or like ah like a network can, or throw up a wall of reality TV where they don't have to pay writers, they don't have to pay residuals to writers, and nonsense like that. ah The sports leagues absolutely have to either be compelling and available or die.
00:24:21
Two Man Forecheck
But here's here's the thing.
00:24:23
Chris
so guys
00:24:25
Two Man Forecheck
The Montreal Canadiens last won the Stanley Cup in the ninety s
00:24:31
Chris
1993 last last Canadian team to do it.
00:24:33
Two Man Forecheck
The Toronto Maple Leafs last won the Stanley Cup in the 60s.
00:24:37
Chris
I was gonna say before I was born.
00:24:40
Two Man Forecheck
The Edmonton Oilers last won the Cup in the 80s.
00:24:46
Chris
Yeah, that that Gretzky guy.
00:24:48
Two Man Forecheck
The Vancouver Canucks have never won the Cup.
00:24:52
Chris
Yeah, they kind of lost their chance when some guy named Thomas made them look stupid.
00:24:56
Two Man Forecheck
The Winnipeg Jets have never won the Cup.
00:25:00
Chris
Well, they've and they've had multiple chances because they had the Winnipeg Jets, then they lost the Winnipeg Jets, then they got them back again, and they still haven't won it.
00:25:08
Two Man Forecheck
The Calgary Flames have not won the Cup. I don't remember.
00:25:16
Chris
I don't
00:25:17
Two Man Forecheck
Didn't they win just before the lockout? A couple of years before the lockout?
00:25:21
Chris
tell your claims. Won a Stanley Cup? No.
00:25:24
Two Man Forecheck
Or maybe they never have. I can't remember.
00:25:27
Chris
I don't think they ever have. Because no Canadian team. It wasn't just but wasn't just before the lockout. Because the last Canadian team was Canadians in 93. Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:36
Two Man Forecheck
So obviously Ottawa has never won and that covers the Canadian markets. Boston has won one cup in the last like 55 years.
00:25:50
Chris
yeah
00:25:51
Two Man Forecheck
The Rangers last won.
00:25:52
Chris
It was 39 at the time that they won it.
00:25:53
Two Man Forecheck
The
00:25:55
Chris
yeah
00:25:57
Two Man Forecheck
Rangers lot one
00:26:00
Two Man Forecheck
How many years ago?
00:26:03
Chris
Rangers was... Ooh. Was it 04 or something?
00:26:11
Two Man Forecheck
No, that was...
00:26:14
Chris
It's been a while for the Rangers too because they broke a huge drought as well.
00:26:18
Two Man Forecheck
Chicago, it had been, before their run a few years ago, it had been forever.
00:26:23
Chris
Yeah, Chicago won it three years. and Chicago won it three out of six years. it was That six-year gap where the Bruins won it in 11, it went Chicago, Boston, l a Chicago, l L.A., Chicago.
00:26:43
Two Man Forecheck
um So I'll pull it up the last 10 or 15 champions. um
00:26:53
Chris
All American, I can tell you that.
00:26:54
Two Man Forecheck
Florida of Panthers most recent, Vegas before that, Colorado before that, Tampa Bay, Tampa Bay, St.
00:26:57
Chris
yeah fourteen Yep.
00:27:00
Two Man Forecheck
Louis, Washington, Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh. Then we're back to Chicago's most recent cup, um the l LA Kings,
00:27:10
Chris
14, yep. 13, Chicago. 12, LA.
00:27:13
Two Man Forecheck
12 was LA, 11 was Boston, um and then Chicago in 2010.
00:27:14
Chris
11 was Boston. 10 was Chicago. Yep.
00:27:21
Two Man Forecheck
You had Detroit in 08.
00:27:23
Chris
Woo.
00:27:25
Two Man Forecheck
um But basically, since
00:27:32
Two Man Forecheck
ah the Detroit Red Wings between before 97...
00:27:39
Chris
Oh, that was that was rival time. That was rivalry time personified then right now Colorado.
00:27:45
Two Man Forecheck
But you have the Detroit Red Wings and the Montreal Canadiens. You have the Detroit Red Wings in 97.
00:27:55
Chris
Yep.
00:27:55
Two Man Forecheck
The Montreal Canadiens in 93. The Rangers in 94.
00:28:01
Chris
It was 94. Okay. I gave them a 10 year boost. boost
00:28:06
Two Man Forecheck
And since then, the original six have largely been dead. The most Southern teams have The Pittsburgh Penguins in the last 30 years have won as many cups as almost as many cups as the original six teams.
00:28:24
Two Man Forecheck
They're not a Sunbelt team. ah They might be to certain people living north of us, but...
00:28:26
Chris
No.
00:28:31
Chris
No, they aren't they are not a Sunbelt team. there They're ensconced right just south of New York. so ah They knew how to manipulate the system and damn, they got shot out of a cannon.
00:28:38
Two Man Forecheck
So... Here's my, what did we see from Vegas when they came into the league?
00:28:53
Two Man Forecheck
And what have they done in their time in the league since then? In one word.
00:29:00
Chris
one is won a Stanley Cup into a final win.
00:29:02
Two Man Forecheck
No, in one word.
00:29:07
Two Man Forecheck
Win, succeed, either one. And how do you win?
00:29:09
Chris
Yeah, okay.
00:29:13
Chris
By outscoring the other team.
00:29:13
Two Man Forecheck
One word. One word.
00:29:15
Chris
is a trick question.
00:29:18
Two Man Forecheck
Competence.
00:29:19
Chris
Okay.
00:29:20
Two Man Forecheck
You have to be competent. And to be competent, you can't be complacent. You can't be entitled. You can't be lazy. And you can't be only concerned by playing with playing money puck and winning just enough to get your first round playoff appearance And then you don't care.
00:29:41
Chris
Well, that was that was the big thing with the Bruins back in the 80s.
00:29:41
Two Man Forecheck
and
00:29:44
Two Man Forecheck
But it's not just the thing with the Bruins.
00:29:47
Chris
Is that they were doing just enough to make the first round.
00:29:47
Two Man Forecheck
look
00:29:51
Two Man Forecheck
Look at the Bruins. Look at the Rangers. Look at the Leafs. eight Look, the Habs keep filling their building despite the fact that their team has been garbage for two and a half decades.
00:30:03
Chris
Ouch. They're not going to like us in Montreal.
00:30:09
Two Man Forecheck
To quote a dude I really don't like very much, tell me when I'm telling lies.
00:30:17
Chris
I understand that. And yes, they are not good, decidedly un-good at most times. Yeah. And we've given them credit when they have been good. I mean, look at the whole Marc Bergeron thing when he suddenly learned how to become a GM.
00:30:31
Two Man Forecheck
Yeah, he was our punching bag for a couple of years.
00:30:35
Chris
And then all of a sudden, no he grew up.
00:30:35
Two Man Forecheck
And... Then all of a sudden he got competent and it was less fun to make fun of him because he was suddenly good at his job.
00:30:40
Chris
Yeah.
00:30:44
Chris
Well, yeah, I was going to say there wasn't as much to make fun of. There wasn't much...
00:30:48
Two Man Forecheck
Now you worked, you worked with me. Unlike most of our listeners, can you imagine me as a general manager being happy to draft in the top five or six?
00:31:06
Two Man Forecheck
six or five or six years in a row like the Edmonton Oilers did for that period.
00:31:12
Chris
It's not something I would brag about. no huh No, uh-uh.
00:31:15
Two Man Forecheck
can you Can you imagine how...
00:31:16
Chris
I don't think you would be happy. I wouldn't be happy. it does If you're drafting that high consistently year after year, you are terrible at your job.
00:31:26
Two Man Forecheck
You suck. You literally suck. And you don't understand the situation. And that's another big issue that I see that we have seen addressed, talked about, and everyone else has talked about it when it comes to specifically Toronto and Edmonton.
00:31:44
Two Man Forecheck
They're trying to play 80s hockey or 80s finesse hockey without the physicality and play no defense. And you can't do that in the current NHL.
00:31:53
Chris
was Was the 80s a time of finesse hockey, though?
00:31:58
Two Man Forecheck
there was There was some skill. It was a little more bruising than people like to admit, but they seem to think that you can win every game or enough games seven to four or 6-5 to take home a Stanley Cup every year, and that's just not going to happen.
00:32:18
Chris
True.
00:32:19
Two Man Forecheck
It's not been true in decades. It's not been true since at least the year 2000.
00:32:29
Chris
Well, the old adage, offense puts butts in the seats, defense wins championships.
00:32:34
Two Man Forecheck
That is correct. And balanced teams will do both.
00:32:39
Chris
Yeah, we saw that in 2011 with the Bruins. We saw that last year with the Panthers. We've seen that every year that the team that does both rather well wins the...
00:32:48
Two Man Forecheck
but
00:32:52
Two Man Forecheck
Look at the Washington Capitals in 2018. They beat
00:32:55
Chris
They beat Vegas. No.
00:32:59
Two Man Forecheck
they beat Vegas, but both of those were really balanced teams.
00:32:59
Chris
Yes, they beat Vegas.
00:33:04
Two Man Forecheck
with great coaching.
00:33:04
Chris
if the That was good battle, too, yeah.
00:33:08
Two Man Forecheck
It was a really fun series to watch.
00:33:13
Two Man Forecheck
um
00:33:14
Chris
It was. I hate to admit it, but it was.
00:33:19
Chris
Sold me on Vegas, anyway. Until they went and got Bruce Cassidy.
00:33:25
Two Man Forecheck
b The issue isn't that the Sun Belt teams have a cash advantage. The issue is that they've attracted competence, ah attracted, cultivated, and maintained competence in their operational leadership.
Success of Sunbelt vs. Original Six Teams
00:33:49
Chris
I also, and and to take it to the other side of that point, I think that the other teams, the original six particularly, became, that other C word you used, complacent, because, well, in the case of Chicago, in the case of Chicago, they won enough that complacency was expected,
00:34:17
Chris
But they took it to another level because they also put themselves in a financial situation where they had to lose de they had to lose very good players in order to stay under the salary cap.
00:34:31
Two Man Forecheck
Yes, they went all out to maintain that core four or five.
00:34:34
Chris
Right.
00:34:37
Chris
And with what they kept and what they had, they became complacent.
00:34:42
Two Man Forecheck
And they burned, they they shot their load, they burned out, but they didn't even they didn't even really build the farm system back up enough to get back to the playoffs as fast as they should have.
00:34:46
Chris
the
00:35:01
Chris
they should They should be an example for bar for Boston, dare I say.
00:35:06
Two Man Forecheck
Well, boston Boston is doing the thing. It lacks the the importance, the word, when it comes to winning, and that's confidence.
00:35:16
Chris
yes
00:35:17
Two Man Forecheck
They have not drafted well in the past 15 years. They have not developed well in the past 15 years. They've traded about league average.
00:35:29
Two Man Forecheck
That math, when you when you're failing at two out of three, it's It might make a nice baseball batting average, but it doesn't make a great win percentage for us to for playoff series.
00:35:45
Chris
Yeah, I mean, it's just
00:35:48
Two Man Forecheck
eight wouldn't use We're going to use Sturgeon's Law here.
00:35:53
Chris
that me do the teams down south just want it more.
00:35:58
Two Man Forecheck
Teams down south want it more right now. Um... Sturgeon's Law, 90% of everything sucks. And quite frankly, that's 100% true when it comes to ah talent evaluators or talent assemblers in the NHL.
00:36:18
Chris
I mean, talk about complain you talk about complacency, and I hate to keep referring back to Boston. i know that we're we're based here and all, but they haven't even got themselves a head coach yet. And this is something you kind of need so that you can start putting other pieces into place because we're only seven we're only a maximum of seven games away from the end of this season.
00:36:42
Chris
We are only a month away from the draft, if a month. ah The draft is the end of this month, actually, I think. You're a month away from free agency, and you don't have a head coach yet.
00:36:55
Two Man Forecheck
But don't worry, Joe Sacco has been informed he won't be the Bruins' next head coach.
00:37:00
Chris
And I wasn't trying to segue anywhere. I'm just saying in terms of...
00:37:03
Two Man Forecheck
No, no, no, but ah statements like that from the media, ah neither one of us thinks all that highly of Joe Sacco as an NHL head coach.
00:37:14
Two Man Forecheck
But after, what, seven months of wearing the interim tag and not being confirmed, if he hasn't figured out that he's not going to be the head coach...
00:37:20
Chris
We kind of knew...
00:37:23
Chris
Well, they had to officially notify him that he wasn't going to be, which I think is sad because you never remove the tag. So I'm pretty sure that he was clued into the fact that he probably wasn't going to be it.
00:37:38
Chris
TSN does have a thing that published this morning saying that they're down to two. And they're expected to announce their coaching vacancy being filled sometime this week.
00:37:54
Chris
But i mean again, this is my point. is they They knew this when their season ended in April.
00:38:01
Two Man Forecheck
Their season ended in November when they got rid of Montgomery.
00:38:01
Chris
And as I've said...
00:38:05
Chris
Well, that was my argument, but yeah.
00:38:11
Chris
But just, you know, if you're going with Sturm, go with Sturm. It's done. But my point is, to to bring it back to this article, is that sitting on your butt and waiting to see what other teams do and who that who they sign and then saying, well, going into a press conference and well, this is who was left and he was definitely our first choice.
00:38:33
Chris
Well, no, he wasn't. Because if he was, you would have announced it a month or two ago. And B, if he was, then why did you wait till now? Because the chances are somebody else might have signed him. Again, complacency.
00:38:50
Chris
Ugh!
00:38:51
Two Man Forecheck
a
00:38:52
Chris
I don't know just...
00:38:53
Two Man Forecheck
And why don't since we're we've already added a bunch of app descriptors, why don't we add hubris to the reason that certain teams are not winning?
00:38:53
Chris
the
00:39:08
Chris
Excuse me. That's another, yeah, that's another one. They just think that they deserve it or that it should just happen.
00:39:15
Two Man Forecheck
Yes. Yes.
00:39:19
Two Man Forecheck
The whole, like we've heard for years about players not wanting to play in the Canadian markets. Why? Why? We've heard, okay, we've heard for years about players not wanting to play in the Canadian markets.
00:39:30
Chris
everybody blame Everybody blames the...
00:39:33
Two Man Forecheck
We've also heard for years that the players are savvy businessmen who want, who, ah who understand the business.
00:39:44
Two Man Forecheck
Am i the only ones actually seeing the connection and thinking that maybe the players are actually more savvy than the owners and the, and the front offices?
00:39:55
Chris
Well, if if yeah Jeremy Swayman is to be believed, then he sat down and decided to learn the business end of it because he wanted to be more educated when it came time to contract talks and negotiations and everything else.
00:40:16
Chris
So I'm willing to bet that there are a lot of players that educate themselves on how that side of the business works.
Players and Financial Motivations
00:40:26
Two Man Forecheck
Correct. because Why?
00:40:27
Chris
Yeah.
00:40:27
Two Man Forecheck
Because there are a far there are far fewer front office jobs in the NHL, or even at the AHL level, than there are players who will run through the NHL at any given point.
00:40:40
Two Man Forecheck
Some of these guys will never really have a paying job again. And that is guys who come in on an entry-level contract and then get veteran minimum after that if they ever make the NHL again.
00:40:53
Two Man Forecheck
Some of it's guys like Brad Marchand, who's played for most of two decades. and could very easily get himself a studio job if he really, really wanted to, or guys like Jonathan Taze, who's been away from the league for two years, who could very easily get himself a scouting or a head coaching job because he understands the components of the game, um or could ryan could work his way into a general manager's job if that's that's where he wants to be.
00:41:26
Two Man Forecheck
um But yes, the players are more motivated to do good business than a lot of the front offices.
00:41:38
Two Man Forecheck
And that's that's not a Sunbelt issue. That's a ownership, leadership, complacency, entitlement, hubris issue.
00:41:53
Chris
Yeah.
00:41:54
Two Man Forecheck
ah I am sick of hearing about the Sun Belt. I am dead sick of hearing about the Sun Belt. Every single team plays with the same cap.
00:42:04
Two Man Forecheck
And quite frankly, smart players, and some of those exist, more than a few of those exist, understand that if they play in Boston or Toronto or Montreal or Vancouver or Chicago or Seattle and they go out and aggressively pursue endorsement deals in those cities, or even passively pursue them, they are going to make more money, even with the taxes, than they would in the Sunbelt teams without them.
00:42:49
Two Man Forecheck
And that... Is nothing but the truth. Now it says recording in progress. Recording in progress. Huh.