Transcript
Speaker: What if the soft, velvety surface on a fabric could tell the story of textile waste that escaped the landfill? Welcome to the No Ordinary Cloth podcast, where we unpack the latest innovations bubbling away at the intersection of textiles, emerging technology, sustainability, and craft. And we look at how these radical solutions are tackling some of the biggest challenges of our industry. I'm your host, Millie Tharakin, a textile researcher, innovator, and an absolute textile geek.
Speaker: Today, we're exploring flocking, a technique with over 3000 years of history. Our guests are here to share about the environmental impact of flocking and the urgent need for an alternative. We have with us the wonderful trio Sarah Robertson, Sarah Taylor, and Annika Siriamaki, the team behind Flock.
Speaker: This is a Scotland-Netherland collaboration turning textile waste like cotton and silk offcuts from weaving mills into new flock fibres for contemporary textiles and finishes. Join me today to learn about how they've developed a circular and more sustainable flocking solution. If you're not familiar with flocking, please don't switch off. We'll get into this fascinating process right here today. Flocked surfaces are everywhere around us.
Speaker: It's in fashion, interiors, luxury packaging, automotive, and even dioramas. I've just learned that our car windows roll up and down smoothly because of the flocked rubber channels. How clever is that?
Speaker: Before we dive in, a quick opportunity for all the young creatives who are listening in. The Swarovski Foundation's Creatives for Our Future program is now open for application. They're offering 20 to 30-year-olds working across fashion, textiles, and product design the chance to receive a €20,000 grant, mentorship, and industry support for ideas that are driving sustainable solutions.
Speaker: Applications close on 9th November, 2026, and you can find the link below in the show notes for more details. If you have an idea that could change the future, don't miss this incredible opportunity.
Speaker: All right, lots to cover today. So let's join our wonderful guests and talk flock.
Speaker: Sarah, Annika and Sarah, a very warm welcome to the No Ordinary Cloth podcast. I'm so thrilled to have you on the show. And since we have two Sarahs on the call today, i'm going to refer to Sarah Robertson as Sarah and Sarah Taylor as Sarah T. Would that be okay with you both? Yeah, perfect. Excellent. All right. It's so exciting to have you all here. And this is a long awaited conversation. i've been following your journey with Flock from its very early days. And although I'm not part of the company or the startup or anything, I do feel very close to it. And it's been wonderful to see how much you've achieved, Hinanda, I think two years. It's really quite remarkable. So I want to get into the thick of it very quickly. And there's so much to learn from all of you. It's be a really, really special episode where we're going to talk about the gorgeous velvety flocked textiles that you have been making, which is quite different to what we find out there usually. So let's start with a quick round of intros. If each of you could tell us a bit about what you do and the one thing about the fashion sector or the textile sector that really gets under your skin, that really annoys you and frustrates you these days. So how about we start with you, Sarah? Thanks so much, Millie, for doing this for us. So I'm Sarah Robertson and I work with Sarah Taylor.
Speaker: We run a very small research-led textile design studio called Sarah and Sarah Smart Textile Design. And we tend to work on, suppose, ideas that turn into projects. so we start from the very beginning of a concept or an idea, and then we take it right through to a finished outcome.
Speaker: And the thing that gets I suppose, under my skin. And this is something that frustrates us, isn't it, Millie? Is that I think one of the things I suppose that we've seen through our experience um over the last two years and prior to that is that we feel that the textile industry is a little bit forgotten sometimes in terms of government priorities and policy. And actually, we have a very interesting and diverse team textile industry here in the UK and especially Scotland and sometimes it feels like it takes a real back seat in priorities in terms of maybe some of the funding that comes its way or the support that comes its way and I know there's great things happening but it feels like there is more that could be done to support the textile industry.
Speaker: Absolutely, Sarah. I hear you and I feel the pain. I'm with you on that one. So some of your listeners might recognize Sarah's voice or know Sarah. She was our first guest ever on this podcast. That's episode number one, way back in 2023. I highly recommend you go back. and listen to it because we're talking about a completely different topic there. It's all about smart textiles and weaving with light. It's a great project that both both the Sarahs here have worked on together for many years. So do check it out. That's episode one. Now I'd like to bring you in Sarah T. ah quick little intro about yourself and what's bothering you these days. Thank you. Well, as Sarah said, we work together in our as our micro company, but I also work at Edinburgh and Apey University. I'm a lecturer there. And so that's quite nice in terms of ah working across education and industry too.
Speaker: And I also agree with Sarah in terms of what annoys me. It was something that I'd and made a mental note of to mention as well. And that is about the funding for textiles. And I thought it would be good. I think we need to think about how we can lobby the certainly the Scottish government to think about what we have as an industry and how important it is. I mean, the textile sector in Scotland, there's an over 550 companies and it's it's worth over £8 million panels to the Scottish economy. Obviously, there's a smaller amount of companies that are working in sustainability, but it's so important now and there's so much innovation going on.
Speaker: And we really need to support startups. We need to support established industries as well so they can shift to to create the sustainable products that they need to And we also have a responsibility because textiles is very much part of what we need to deal with in terms of sustainability for the planet. And so i would love to be able to find innovative ways of lobbying governments.
Speaker: Thank you, Sarah. Annika, it was wonderful to meet you in person last month um at the Future Fabrics Expo. We'll talk a bit more about that later. Could you tell us a bit about your background and what you do and what's annoying you these days? Okay, now thank you for having us again. So my name is Annika Siriemaki. I'm based in the Netherlands in The Hague, where I work with textiles researching and I'm teaching textiles and print design at the Royal Academy of and Arts in the Hague. And next to that, I do a lot flocking with Maison de Floc, together with Urgent von Feldhoven. So that's what I do mostly.
Speaker: i always tend up of ah running into some topic and then completely get lost in it and researching it and thinking about, okay, how can we change this to something better in the ways of textiles?
Speaker: What really gets on my skin? Well, actually fast fashion and overconsumption. That's the that's it the biggest. Absolutely. i Yeah, I know. How do we solve that one?
Speaker: Let's try and start somewhere where we can make a change and where you have made a big change. So starting with flock textiles, you mentioned that very casually over there. i do flocking.
Speaker: That could be something very new to a lot of listeners. And it's something that maybe we've come across quite daily in our lives on fabrics and wallpapers and packaging and things, but people might not recognize it as flocking and might not know what flocked fabric is or wallpaper is. So Anika, since you're the expert in it, it's a very super specialized area you've got into.
Speaker: I'm really keen to understand how you got started with flocking and what made you fall in love with it as a technique and also explain just very briefly about flocking as a technique, the fibers, what the process is so people can quickly just understand what we're talking about.
Speaker: All right. Well, flocking is actually a screen printing technique mostly. I'm a screen printer. That's the love of my life. I always do screen printing since I was 15 or 16. But sometimes with screen printing, I really like to manipulate fabric and I really also love yarns. And in that sense, flocking becomes a bit rich because it gives a velvety surface to a lot of things. So you can use it for packaging, but as well for in cars, there's a lot of flocking going on flock dashboards.
Speaker: Basically what the technique is that you apply an adhesive to the surface and then through electrostatic loading the particles, you will apply these little fibers. And you need these electrostatic loaded particles to be able to have them standing straight up in the adhesive. Otherwise they will lay around and you would not get this velvet surface.
Speaker: So that's most about the process. What material is usually used as flocking fiber? Well, mostly it's nylon, polyester and viscose. So this is what traditionally the industry uses as flocking fiber. Absolutely. Yes. all right yeah Sarah T, you have worked with Sarah over several years, focusing on smart textiles. What was the inspiration behind Flock, the company that you have now? Where did that seed of an idea come from? Give us a little bit of background on and where this all started.
Speaker: Well, and Sarah and i have worked, as you say, quite some years now together. And for about 10 years or so, we've been working with an extraordinary lace manufacturer, NYB Textiles, based in Ayrshire in Scotland. And we've done various projects with them. so And we spent a lot of time there in the mill, days and hours, doing So we're sort of familiar with their machinery and production and the design that goes on there. And we've done a lot of work designing on their madras, their Scottish madras manufacture.
Speaker: And we've noticed... but when we've been there, that in the finishing process of the the Scottish madras, the the yarns in the structure of the cloth are clipped away and they're collected into these huge tin bags at the side of the machine. Sometimes they come off as little small clips where you can see the lengths and sometimes they look quite, they resemble fluff. And it was, I guess, this observation of this waste material. And also, i think that well Sarah, through her work at Duncan of Jordansen, where she was in directed the textile course there, had been involved with NYB with student projects and they'd looked at using
Speaker: this waste material as well. So it was something that happened quite naturally. And we were we just thought that it it could have a ah particular use. And it was an actual sort of joining the dots together in terms of potential textile processes like flocking that we were considering that it might be applicable for So it's an amalgamation really of understanding what the mill did, doing some sort of prior testing and just just thinking about sustainability at the time.
Speaker: And how much waste are we talking about from a mill like MYB? What is the scale of this at the moment? Well, for the clippings, there's at least two tonnes, is that correct, Sarah, that goes to landfill every year. But there's the waste streams as well.
Speaker: So it's quite considerable. You know, a lot of that material is material that is it can be reused. it's It's a new yarn or it's, yes, that just hasn't been used in the production.
Speaker: And currently this this is waste that just goes into a landfill or how does NYB manage the waste? Some of it goes to landfill. NYB are particularly generous as a company and supports students and other designers as well. So as much as possible, some of that fabric or waste can be given to...
Speaker: other the people, but that's not necessarily sustainable. It doesn't deal with the problem of continual manufacturing and having that buildup of of waste that the mill needs to store or get rid of. And I think that there isn't necessarily the infrastructure to collect that waste as well. That's something that is also difficult to set in place, whereas previous years they might have linked with other companies that did that, but it's becoming a little bit more difficult as well. Absolutely. Sarah, at the same time, you've also been digging deeper into textile to textile recycling. What have you learned about the scale and complexity of that system that perhaps wasn't obvious at the start of your journey?
Speaker: Well, honestly, it's been such a massive learning curve. I mean, i do think that if we had known, we may have not taken on the project, the start.
Speaker: And this is, that sounds crazy, doesn't it? and it should so it shouldn't feel like that. One of the things that MYB textiles were really keen to do is to not let any of their waste go to landfill. So they want systems in place that can use that waste. It can be reused, it can go back into production potentially, or it can go to other end uses. And that that kind of thinking in terms of waste is challenging in a way because that doesn't feel like still there's the joined up systems to allow that to happen. So you literally have to start from scratch, it feels, when you take on a project like this. So we were so lucky that we met Annika, an expert in flocking, and that we were able to start those discussions with her. And then
Speaker: Very quickly we realised that this project was more about kind of the systems and the supply chain in order to move materials and transform materials. So we needed to take the clips and they needed to be processed as electrostatic flock.
Speaker: So they ended up going from Scotland to Spain and then back again. But that proved a concept in the fact that it was possible. But then... you know, we have to then think, right, OK, what's the next step in this process if it's not clips? Because the the special thing about and MYB's clips is they're already broken down. It's a material that's really, in a there's very small steps in order to process it as a flock fibre. But then what if it is selvage edges or the trims that come off the jacquard looms? What if it is a waste fabric?
Speaker: then that has to then go to another process of mechanical mechanical pulling or mechanical breaking down before it can then be processed as flock. So then there's another step in the chain. Okay, so where do we move the the waste to then get it mechanically processed? And then it has to go somewhere to be transformed as flock.
Speaker: And the scale that you have to do that on is big. So if we were to actually do this on a larger scale and not just prototype batches, essentially, then we need to be moving 100 at a time, at least.
Speaker: And so that for us, and as a very small startup, that actually the idea of continuing to be small is part of our USP is really difficult.
Speaker: There are solutions in that, but the cash flow and the supply chain almost need to be able to adapt to those different and ways of thinking about waste as well. So when we think about textile recycling or textile to textile recycling, it's always talked about at scale.
Speaker: But what if we were to think of it on a much smaller scale? And I think it's really interesting that you you talk about staying small as being, you know, what's really unique about your approach and your business model. We get into a bit more that of that later. You know, I rarely hear startups talk about that. So I do want to flesh that out a little more. Annika, I mean, we talked about flock, what you're doing as a way to tackle the waste that we have and the waste from mills like MYB is cotton. You've also looked at silk as a potential material as well. And you've um created some prototypes with that. But traditionally, it's been synthetic fibers that's been used for flocking. What are some of the problems we have from using synthetic fibers in flocking that we should also be tackling?
Speaker: Well, I think Sarah talked about the scale. So, I mean, the problem with a syntactic fiber is basically you're throwing away a lot of microfibers out there. And that's what you really don't want, especially as a small flocking studio.
Speaker: We also want to small scale projects. And what we run into as a problem is actually that if we want to buy flock, we either have to buy a couple of hundred kilos, which would fill a room.
Speaker: Wow. base Really. ah Which we don't need because we you know we just lead small scales. But we cannot buy sustainable flock on a scale from from a kilo or two. That's what ah we mostly would need. So I think that's what we run into.
Speaker: So there was a need in a way in the traditional flocking sector. I think so. And we get actually more and more the questions from the the clients we work with, like if that we could use their ways to turn it into a natural flock. So it could be like denim or actually we got the question from leather.
Speaker: I actually got the question is about polyester fabrics. So I was like, well, maybe you don't want to do that. Yeah. Maybe it's better ways of recycling it. So I think there's there starts happening things in the world of fashion.
Speaker: think what I find fascinating is that traditionally flocking has been a way of transforming tiny scraps of waste into luxurious material, you know, whether that was wool dust in the 18th century for wallpapers or today's electrostatic systems. With flock, you're really pushing that idea into a circular future. um Let's go into a little bit of the practicalities of that. Again, Annika, if you don't mind, could you walk us through the journey of a waste piece of cotton or silk or some of the clippings from the mill floor? How does it transform into a flock fiber? ah Yeah, well, as Sarah said before, whether it's the clippings, they're already
Speaker: it' like They can be milled down quite quickly, but if you have a waste fabric or if you have salvages, they need to be tear-nosed, shredded basically in a machine. And then from the shredded material goes to ah Spain to get milled down to a certain size. That's one thing about the flock that becomes very, very short fibers.
Speaker: And then from there, they go through process to become electrostatic. That's about how it goes. I'm glad you mentioned that they've really short fibers because one of the challenges we face in textile recycling, one of the problems we say is when you do mechanical recycling, there's a lot of short fibers that you get, which isn't great for turning into yarn and using in traditional clothing. So there is there is a type of waste there, again, that nobody wants that we could bring into flocking, which yeah I feel like this is solving so many problems in so many spaces, which is which is brilliant. Sarah, is there any specific reason that you decided to choose cotton and silk weaving waste and what have you discovered about its potential compared to other waste streams maybe? the i suppose the only specific reason was that we were looking at the sort of very real and production of certain in the UK. So a heritage lace manufacturer are working predominantly with high quality cotton. The majority of their waste is cotton and
Speaker: a huge amount of that was still going to landfill. So that felt like, okay, surely this cotton can be used. And actually that is just from our testing and the technical tests, the cotton actually performs really well as a flock fibre and a short flock fibre. It's baby soft. It gives you this extremely soft textured surface. And yeah, it's very robust, we have found by our surprise. Yeah.
Speaker: And the other waste streams that we've started to explore where came from a chance conversation actually in 2025 at the Future Fabrics Expo with Emma Collings from Sudbury Silk Mills. And she said, this is very interesting. Could you do this with us? our waste stream. And so we followed that idea, really, in a way. And so they have not, they don't just weave silk. So they're weaving for fashion, apparel fabrics, and also interior fabrics. So they've got a whole mix of weaving that goes on there. And again, another heritage
Speaker: mill and so we were able to use a variety of natural fibers from them to really establish whether that was possible as well as ah as an electrostatic flock fiber did it work but also it gave us this amazing opportunity to explore color from the source waste, and because MYB very traditionally used, tend to use ecru or natural cotton, and then things are piece dyed or they're dyed order. With Sudbury Silk Mill, we were suddenly in this position to be able to go, okay, let's try
Speaker: a red batch of waste to try and create a red flock. So we were able to use like a mixed cellulose batch of waste, which was green, a red natural fiber blend. So that could be anything from silk to flax to cotton. So that's got a bit of everything in it. And then we had a blue silk, 100% silk flock.
Speaker: which And they all were. And Annika, I think, knows them the best because she's predominantly printed with them. But um they all have their own kind of quality. And the colours were pretty much true to the overall tone of the waist as well, which was amazing for us to see. We didn't really quite know how they would come out, but the colours were really beautiful.
Speaker: we were just extremely excited when we got them. Yes. I mean, I've seen them. They're absolutely gorgeous. Really, really beautiful. And for the listeners, we're going to put a link in the show notes for you to check out the website. Also feel free to reach out to Sarah, Sarah or Annika to learn more about this or buy some samples from them as well. Now, Sarah T, one area that we haven't talked about is the adhesive side. i know you had done quite a bit of research in trying to find some bioadhesive. What was your sort of research and experience in that area? And what have you achieved in terms of finding a better solution for the adhesive?
Speaker: Well, it is something that we're very aware of. We do get asked questions about what is the adhesive. We primarily use a water-based adhesive. But initially, last year, certainly, we were we were looking and trialing some alternative solutions and looking at coatings and that could be that could have the tackiness that that might be appropriate to allow the flock to stick. So we were doing some trials with that. but It wasn't as successful as we'd like it to have been. So that is that's an area of research that we're still wanting to pursue. I know Anik has done quite a bit of research on this anyway in this area. I mean, obviously, there were glues that have been used for
Speaker: hundreds of years before as well. But in terms of industrial standards and making sure that the the fabric meets those standards as well, we have to bear that in mind. But it's an area that we would really like to pursue and it's important because then we have something that is really unique in terms of it being as as much a natural product possible.
Speaker: Annika, so the electrostatic flocking as we know it today, I understand, really started in the 1930s and 40s, where we were starting to create these very velvety, luxurious surfaces, more at a larger scale.
Speaker: Within that really established process, what were some of the key design or technical decisions you had to make around the fiber length or the or the purity or the mix, the color? to make sure that the recycled flock perform as well or better than conventional flocking?
Speaker: Well, I think it was really to find a way that make the most out of the material we got because a white, very short fiber. But I think the touch is so beautiful anyway. I'm a little bit in love with it. All of them. But I think in the beginning I was really like, okay, how can we really make the most out of the material we have? Because it is it is a bit challenging. Flocking is a little bit harder. you have to you know work a little bit harder to get the nice surface compared to the polyester or the viscose flock. But I think using using it in a way that you really make the most out of it and using maybe a coloured adhesive, using it mixed with the colour the fabrics we printed on from MYB, mean, it really makes such a beautiful mix. Basically, we print their waste back to the fabrics, but because the fabrics are already quite beautiful, we can make it like a add this net an extra layer.
Speaker: That just shows your expertise. You kind of knew what needed to be tweaked to be able to get the the final results. Because for me, when I touch it, it's it's beautiful. it's It's amazing. It's no different to any other material that I would find. And you've really managed to achieve that, the quality and the standard that people might be looking for.
Speaker: Sarah, tell me a bit about the collaboration that I can see here, that each of you come with such different backgrounds. There's design expertise, manufacturing, flock expertise. Given the kind of craft and high-tech engineering that really comes together in a process like this, how have these different perspectives complemented each other in developing the innovation? And where might you have had maybe clashes or challenges and pushed back and forth a bit i yeah no it's a really good question ah our collaboration has been amazing between us three in a way because we have worked i think very naturally together and you just don't know at the beginning of things sometimes if something's going to work and we've um somehow continued annicus continued to work with us um Despite me squashing my toe in a metal door and other eventful happenings along the way.
Speaker: But yeah, no, I think what happened with our collaboration is it's got stronger over the two years because we understand how each other work and we are able to delegate different roles. elements of the work. we did i mean I suppose the the project's gone through these different stages because we've been funded through different pockets of funding. And they've had they've all been obviously connected and growing this bigger idea of what FLOC could be, but they've all had their kind of own contained work packages and milestones and outcomes as well. And then
Speaker: Like as an iterative process, we've been able to look at the end of a project and think, right, OK, what makes most sense to do next? And quite often those things have kind of weirdly or by chance have kind of naturally come at the right times to move us forward.
Speaker: But we have genuinely had to keep the momentum rolling this two years to to keep it going. and And we've worked really hard and especially over the last few months. But now we we are in a position to take another step forward in a way. and We're at a stage where We can go to pilot production.
Speaker: it We know it works. We know that product's ready. It literally is that that step where we need now someone to say, oh we would really like to use this material within our production run, within our business.
Speaker: But we did have some technical challenges, I suppose, along the way. And again, that was related to this idea of development. So we worked with a company in Devon, sorry, they're called Goonveen Flock Fibre.
Speaker: And they're an amazing company and they were so helpful early on. And they can and mill down waste fibre to different lengths, essentially. And so we did try actually early on, how long could we get our fibre? How long?
Speaker: How short could it be? How long could it be? And so there's an element of we would love to come back to some of that. But at the moment, the scale that we need to do that on is like 150 material in order to mill it to a certain fiber length and you know we're in this kind of like almost slight catch 22 now where we're ready and but then this this i this aspect of scale keeps sort of like jumping in the way um
Speaker: And then, so again, that's ah another in a way that Future Fabric Expo has been really interesting for us for the last two years, but particularly this year because we had the Innovation Hive stand and we were all able to go because of some wonderful funding from Creative Scotland, Go See Share.
Speaker: and We were all able to attend and it was paired with the textile recycling show. And actually through that, we were able to start to look at some machines where we could imagine starting to take control of some of that processing of materials ourselves, essentially.
Speaker: So that is interesting how we make that happen now. we're not We need to really think about, right, OK, could we do that? But then through those conversations, we found out that there are machines that we could potentially utilize that are in universities that do the things that we want them to do. And that's one of the companies that we were working with early on also has one of the machines that we were particularly interested in.
Speaker: So without those conversations... at these very live events, we literally just would not know some of the stuff we we now know. so And it's only through being there and talking to people in person and then following up in an email. And then they might say, oh have you did you know that this company existed? And we would and we didn't. And so this i don't I think I've gone off on one really. that um No, no, but it's it's really you really highlight the importance of networks and the right networks that can just really compound what you're trying to do because you can't have all the answers on your own. It's going to take you forever to figure these things out by yourself. But just all the knowledge that everybody walks around with in their heads, you know, you really get an opportunity to tap into that. And absolutely, Future Fabrics Expo is one of those spaces where you just get so much out of it.
Speaker: And we'll go into more details in a bit about that. I was thinking about, you know, you just mentioned that you're ready to go. You're ready to scale and actually produce flocking fiber for the industry. So flocking is used in everything from apparel, um as Annika mentioned earlier, automotive interiors. But there's also some very strict performance expectations, right? in durability, behavior fire behaviors, sound absorption. there's all kinds of other characteristics about this material that you need to consider. Sarah t are there any regulatory or performance standards that have posed challenges for your material flock? And have how have you approached testing and certification of these fibers along the way?
Speaker: In terms of the testing, we've it it was and certainly in our recent project where we were funded by Innovate UK. We were very aware that we needed to look at testing. We took this opportunity to do that and link with industrial test labs.
Speaker: So we focused on particular tests. two concerning washing machine washing and also dry cleaning dry cleaning is something that ah certainly with annika's work in uh she works with couture designers it's normally to dry cleaning but we were interested to see how how the washing fared and certainly we met the industrial standards for 40 degree wash as well which is amazing because a lot of fabrics
Speaker: these days, say 30 degrees, which is actually that. Can I add that to my and list of bugbears? Yes, I'd like to add that one. That certainly gets under my skin. So that's great. And the other test we did was the Martindale liberation test.
Speaker: which is something that and is important for interiors as well as fashion as well. And so they performed to FLOC standards, industrial standards. So that that was great. In terms of, so we, well, I think that's important for us because we we feel confident now that we know about the material, not only through working with it through the processes, but also understanding how it performs and seeing how the so samples react through that testing. We also had the opportunity to do testing for another company's fabrics as well.
Speaker: and So that was that was really important as well. So through those conversations at Future Fabric Expo, You know, we learned that maybe companies have their own set of testing that need to be, you know, they need to check our testing and to make sure that that's compatible.
Speaker: But it's definitely a starting point. So all that information and those conversations that Sarah talked about is really vital. I'm curious to know who um who's interested in in the fibre at the moment. Is it designers, fashion brands, interiors? Yeah, I think, well, we mostly have been talking to fashion companies and they had a quite interesting conversation at Future Fabrics about fab... well...
Speaker: companies that have been pushing off, could you say it like that, flock, because of sustainable reasons. And now was like, well, this could be interesting. We would be considering it now. When, if we can find a sustainable flock.
Speaker: So that's very nice. Any other sectors? Well, automobile as well. I mean, recently we were we were at the Munich Fabrics Sustainable Innovations Showcase. And yes, that was definitely, we were getting interest from automobile designers that were working either for companies or companies.
Speaker: consultants that work with teams within the automobile industry, because as Annika said before, a large proportion of flock is used for automobile. So we'd be very excited about working in those areas as well.
Speaker: Absolutely. And that's a very different different scale as well, isn't it? If you get into into that space. It would be a nice scale to be in that. That's the sort of challenge that we want. Yeah. That is what you want. Excellent. As well as keeping small scale ourselves. But I think, yeah, I mean, but that's when you can scale up. So that's when we can tap into industry that are able to supply it at large scale. um And we can join those dots because we have, yeah, that's, the I guess, you know, we've we've got our, we're building our supply chain, really, although it's dotted across various places.
Speaker: But yes, that would be really exciting. Yeah. and And you've both, all three of you highlighted the importance of conversation and exposure and being out in the field. You've been doing a lot of that recently and a lot of learning from it. So as you mentioned, we were all at the Future Fabrics Expo.
Speaker: Big step up from the year before when in 2025, you had a couple of samples on the innovation table FFE. This year you had your own stand and it was beautiful you had a lot more samples lot more options you had colors um so it was really excited to just see what had happened within just that year and oh my goodness you guys were so busy every time I walked by to come and say hi you know there were people chatting away and brands popping in and out so I hope some of those conversations are really opening up new opportunities for you And as you also said, the Future Fabrics Expo is called like co-located with the Textile Recycling Expo, which is perfect for you. You kind of fit into both worlds. I mean, it was a great opportunity for you to potentially find supplies of waste in the future when you start thinking about scaling up. And it was a packed couple of days, right? I mean, so many exhibitors, lots of sessions. So much networking and it was brutally hot. We're all sort of melting in the heat in Brussels. Even I found it a bit too much. i think 38 degrees in and a heat wave. It was very intense, but also really, really inspiring.
Speaker: What were you hoping to get out of the expo? um what but As you were preparing for it, what were you hoping to get out of it? Just very briefly, Sarah? Yeah, we were hoping to, well, that' the our ability to be there was amazing. So all three of us could go.
Speaker: that allowed us to like almost act as a team so that we could visit some of the other stands. We could have different conversations with and in the textile recycling show, for example. um So we wanted to learn.
Speaker: wanted to understand where we fit in this bigger picture of textile textile recycling. Because we don't necessarily see ourselves as a recycler, but then that was one of the questions we were almost going to answer as well. Are we a recycler?
Speaker: yeah right um Or are we a company that transform the materials into something new? And we feel like there's an element of both within what we're doing. So yeah, the it allowed us to really learn to see the picture of what's happening in textile recycling alongside the picture of what's happening in you know responsible material development and sustainable materials.
Speaker: And it almost felt like I wanted to drag some of the machines through into the Future Fabric Expo. right And almost because even though it was on the door step and they were both next to each other, it felt like they could almost merge.
Speaker: which might even bring even more interesting conversations. Because when we went into the textile recycling show, it was very much sort of machine stand, big machine, some of them. i mean...
Speaker: Whereas when you go into the Future Fabric Expo, it's all the outcomes of that potential, you know, the end point of all of that textile recycling potentially, or how people need to join the dots between, you know, how they actually process their materials or and where those textile recycling processes fit in their supply chain. And I think the two...
Speaker: If the two conversations could come together more closely, i feel like those lightbulb moments might be more. And actually, we were able to, we hoped to get out of it, that learning, right? Okay, so what are we doing Who are we?
Speaker: Where can we go with this? Who do we need to work with to make this happen? Who might be interested in our materials? and But also for us, the Future Fabric Expo is also interesting because you end up talking to the other exhibitors.
Speaker: So as much as the visitors to the show come and see you, the other exhibitors become your wider network. And they're doing such interesting things that you end up discussing that with them. And actually quite a lot of the things that come out of the Future Fabric Expo for us are another another test, test of a waste stream, a test of a colour source.
Speaker: So those are like little leap points for us where we go, OK, that's interesting. But then you also need a way of then someone utilising the result of those tests.
Speaker: Annika, I think this might have been your first visit to the Future Fabrics Expo. Is that right? Yeah. I'm curious to hear your thoughts so any sort of surprising insights you had um from the conversations there and also just wandering around the other exhibitor stands.
Speaker: I think it was really interesting to see both parts, the Future Fabrics and the recycling. I was amazed to see how many initiatives there is in sustainable developments of fabrics in different ways, which I thought was super interesting to see. And also what we said, we talked about color, we talked about other ways of working. ah So finding those sources was very inspiring. And I think I was really amazed about all the machines in the cycling and also seeing how developed they are in sorting things. Yes.
Speaker: I thought that was really For me getting like, oh, but how could you recycle materials in a different way? And hearing the stories, what they run into as recyclers, I thought that was very interesting as well.
Speaker: And I think scale is a thing for everybody. Well, they need bigger scale. We need smaller scale. Yeah, that is an interesting point. Actually, one thing I noticed, because I was at Textile Recycling Expo last year, and they had all these machines, big machines as well, but I think one of them it was actually doing the mechanical chopping, and there was just fiber in the air everywhere. It was like I could feel it in my throat, and it was difficult to speak. it It was really uncomfortable. I think this year was far better because I think they realized that isn't the way to demonstrate. That's not the place to demonstrate. Yeah.
Speaker: mechanical recycling, sort of choking everyone. But it also just shows you that this is what happens in factories and where these machines are used. Sarah, did you notice anything that really jumped out at you or what was different about the conversations this year compared to last year? What was really urgent? What was really highlighted this year?
Speaker: One of the things that is interesting to us is that, you know, the different conversations that you hear They keep coming back to some of the things, you know, that there has to be a certain percentage of textile waste used in and new products going forward, potentially. and actually, that you know, we could provide that percentage of to textile waste for other companies. So there are, you know, there are these things that we're hearing now that we think oh yeah okay we could really look at that and that legislation and how it how it relates to what we're doing so those are the sorts of things that we've almost because we've been proving a concept of transforming this material and and seeing if it works as a flock fiber we've almost not given ourselves the space then to kind of look at this bigger picture
Speaker: And it feels like now we need to do that in in light of what we've heard, what we found out, and really make sure that we are doing things in the right way.
Speaker: But also there is another interesting... um thing you know in terms of textile recycling if if we are a textile recycler then we have to fu fulfill certain criteria in terms of sort of certifying how that material where that material is coming from how it's being recycled and then where it's ending up so all of these things are we they're all tracks now that we have to to follow and see which ones are particularly relevant to us and what we need to put in place. And again, that isn't something that is can be done overnight. That is going to take time and potentially funding in order for us to even start that process in a way. So yeah, we've got some big like jumps now in order to make sure that we are meeting certain legislation and meeting certain criteria.
Speaker: um You've said earlier that keeping things small rather than immediately scaling and chasing scale might be one of Flock's unique strengths. What kind of business models are you now exploring that enable that choice?
Speaker: There's various ways that we can see ourselves working. We can see ourselves working as waste transformers. That sounds weird. Transformers of waste. and We can also take the waste of waste which is, you know, what you were saying really about people get down to extremely short fibers in textile processing.
Speaker: So, and then essentially we can take the dust. So there's an element of, okay, we've got this approach to textile transform textile waste transformation that is potentially...
Speaker: a new business model. And then we have this end bit where we then use that transformed material and we turn it into fabrics for fashion, interior, lifestyle products.
Speaker: And we're using a very design focused process through all of this. you know We're using a design lens. We're thinking about this really holistically um in terms of the quality of materials, where it comes from,
Speaker: how it's processed, how it's then used, what for base fabrics it then goes on to, so that it makes sense as a holistic story and a holistic way of approaching materials.
Speaker: So we we've got this design, bespoke design process essentially where we could work with other companies and they might have a waste stream that they want to transform and utilize within their products or they might just want to work with us in order to produce roll-to- rollll run a run of fabric that's flocked And we now have that possibility of doing 100 metres roll-to-roll flock printing. So if anyone is interested in that, we'd be very happy to hear from them.
Speaker: But yeah, it's still almost a learning process. We don't quite know which is the one that we feel is our business model, but it's an element of all of them. they' They're sort of interlinked. Without one, we can't do the other.
Speaker: I mean, I really appreciate the honesty here because this is, you know, every startup goes through this sort of phase of really trying to get to the bottom of it. Like, yes, we have a technology, we know it works, we can scale it. But like you said, there needs to be a customer, there needs to be a business model in place. And what does that look like? And that's a big, scary question. And you're in that place trying to work it out. And I love that you're doing little experiments, you're having more conversations to get to the bottom of it. And mean, It is such a natural part of it a startup journey. So you're very much where you need to be at the moment. And um yeah, I've got a feeling, you know, next year, this time will be a very different conversation that we'll be having and where you will be, ah you know, having figured out the business model. I really believe that.
Speaker: You know, just stepping back from Flock for a moment, what role do you think Scottish mills, designers and small research-led practices such as yourselves can realistically play in influencing larger industrial and environmental change? And what support do they need to do that well?
Speaker: Sarah T? i Well, they need support. Over the years, these companies, startups have have had a great in influence on industry anyway, through smart tech sales, et cetera. It sort of happened through history. And because if you're a smaller scale company, you're looking at innovation, you're able to really engage with the materials, look more deeply. It's a deeper dive into certain certain areas. It's very different from working at large scale industry, but
Speaker: I think you know Sarah and I have had experience of working with industry as well and transferring those skills from our understanding of material and practice.
Speaker: And i I think that you know that's important to have. i think I'm going off on a tangent here, but I think that if you have that ah good relationship with industry as well and larger scale setup,
Speaker: new and that works properly, a lot of these innovations can come can be become realistic on a larger scale as well. So is's there's a lot of trust involved with companies and also smaller companies sharing sharing their knowledge, their innovations.
Speaker: Perhaps it it still comes down to financial support. But I think... you know Speaking from from our own experience, we've had that sort of support from the likes of the mills that we've worked with, NYB Textiles in particular.
Speaker: They've embraced the types of innovation that we've wanted to explore. we've had that opportunity to to start innovating and to you know transfer that knowledge on a larger scale.
Speaker: And i I think that's important. So the support is not only financial, but it's it's a and larger industry, giving the opportunity to have these discussions and to work through processes. Not everyone has the luxury of of having the space or capacity to do that as well. And as to some of the projects we've done have had funding, but a lot of it has been in kind as well.
Speaker: Yeah, and like you said, building that relationship and you've had this relationship for many, many years now and you just, you didn't just walk in and say, we want to experiment with your waste. That would have been a very different conversation. So having those relationships built much earlier in the process, I think goes a long way.
Speaker: Wow, that's, it's been amazing. Really, really amazing to kind of dive a bit deeper into Flock and the journey you've had, you know, looking forward to where you'll go in the future. Now, I'd love to get to know you all a little bit more personally.
Speaker: Take off your work hats now. Maybe starting off with you, Annika. Tell us where you grew up and what you enjoyed doing as a teenager. yeah Interesting question. Okay, well, I grew up in Sweden, in a small city in ah near next to the sea. Very interesting. Very nice.
Speaker: And as a teenager, I was doing a lot of drawing and reading books. i guess Even through your teenage years? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yes yes. Very much drawing, very much, well, and and hanging around with friends, of course. But, you know, drawing and reading was the main I did a bit of research and looking back to your sort of early yeah career, you used to decorate film sets and source props and things for them. And then you were also a florist, which is yeah beautiful. i love that. Tell us a bit about that and what you enjoyed about these jobs. When I graduated, i was really like, okay, the thing I'm going to do is going to be film sets. I'm going to be an art director.
Speaker: After studying textile design and then graduating with a video clip, was not appreciated. Anyway, so I decided that's what I'm going to do. So it took me some years, but then I got into the film industry and then I was working on the film sets for quite some years until I started really missing designing textiles and working with materials.
Speaker: And when I quit working in the film set, I needed to have like a sidekick next to my designing. And after being working in like ah bars for a long time, I decided i should have something else. And then I ended up working in a flower store and becoming a florist. Because I just thought that was an interesting way to do it.
Speaker: ah Oh, that's wonderful. yes Thank you. Funny question. Lovely. How about you, Sarah T? Where did you grow up? And tell us a bit about what you enjoyed doing as a young girl. this Yeah, this will be edited. and I grew up, I'm a Yorkshire lass. So I'm i'm from a very strong textile area. Grew up in Halifax.
Speaker: So I think that I've obviously got the textile DNA in me. In fact, I didn't start off wanting to do textiles or planning to do textiles. I was going to be a potter. That was my first love, really. Ceramics. I think everyone school used to call me the mad potter. But but I made a shift to textiles.
Speaker: ah My grandmother and her mother were, and my ah my father's side, were weavers in the mills. And my grandfather was in shoddy.
Speaker: um So there's a there's a nice sort of ah loop there as well. So it's it's obviously in my in my DNA. And you were asking about teenage years? Yes. Any confessions to me? Well, I was, and not really, but...
Speaker: So I was, my other thing other than loving to being involved with art and ceramics was music. So I used to play the cello. So a lot of my teenage years were in string groups and orchestras and that almost kept me out of mischief. Oh, that's beautiful.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely the the creative the creative industries for me, really. and And that's quite nice because, you know, Sarah and I have worked on interactive projects where music or sound has an element. So that's that's always been a really particularly interesting for me as well.
Speaker: Lovely. Do you still play the cello? I don't play the cello. Annika and I had a discussion. In fact, we discovered while we were eating, dare I say, sausages in Munich on our last evening, that, and I'm vegan, and they were proper German sausages, that we both we both played the cello. Oh wow, goodness. I know, i know exactly. I don't play the cello anymore, but that's terrible. and but i But I do play the piano right still and I teach the piano. and i used In my teenage years I used to teach the piano and to earn a bit of pocket money.
Speaker: Lovely, so we've got a bit of a band forming here. Sarah, what what do you play? No, and I didn't get any of the musical genes in our family. So the only thing I could offer the band is to feed them and um look after them and get them and get them around. Yeah, yeah absolutely. Someone's got to drive them around.
Speaker: Is that an actual job where you drive the band around? Roadie. Roadie. Yeah, I could be the roadie. So Sarah, what but what about you? Where did you grow up and what were you up to as a teenager?
Speaker: i grew up in Southampton. We lived sort of on the edge of... the countryside, I would say. So it was almost like our road sort of was beside strawberry fields and fields. So we used to I spent a lot of time outside. had I was very lucky, actually. Now I look back on it because I met some friends that had horses and then I ended up getting a horse. And I was actually...
Speaker: 10 at the time when I got my first horse and it was a Welsh cob, um strawberry rowan colour and I loved brushing her hu and plaiting her. I learnt how to do French plaits on the and horse's tails and the manes and i used to love pulling the horse's hair from the mane. Fleur had lovely and forelock, big you know, full fringe.
Speaker: So yeah, it was very lovely. and These were my teenage years. So I spent a lot of time mucking out, digging dung heaps. cycling to the stables, falling off my bike and looking after horses. Beautiful. sounds Sounds like a great childhood.
Speaker: So this is a question that I ask all my guests and I know Sarah, you've got five minutes. So we'll start with you. And then if you need to jump off, that's absolutely fine. The others can answer the remaining questions. And I'd asked this um three years ago, maybe you have a different answer this time, but, you know, I really believe that textiles is much more than just being something that's functional. It fulfills our senses and our soul.
Speaker: And we engage with textiles far more intimately than any other material. So could you share with us about a piece of textiles or garments that holds really deep personal value for you or something that holds a lot of memory? Is there a story that you can share with us?
Speaker: I think I remember what i said last time. I talked about a sewing box that had been passed down from my grandma to my mum and that I still had. and it had all the the bits and bobs that they used to use, the needles, the buttons that they'd collected over time. But it also had this kind of satin pin cushion on the inside and it was a woven...
Speaker: box and it just has this like almost like treasure box feel to it for me so that's really special and actually my grandma recently passed away um and she was very she was 92 so she'd lived a a good life um but when i went to the house after she had died there were so many more textile treasures there and So now I've got some knitted lace that was knitted in Nottingham and at some point in the past and from her. And it's beautiful. It's so fine. And it's all mohair and wool. So I've got some really lovely treasures from my grandma. That's really special. Thank you for sharing that, Sarah. Sarah T, is there something that comes to you to your mind? There's a few really, but ah again, sort of treasure boxes from, or old silks from great aunts. And i have some amazing bone, but we wouldn't want to use bone now, but they were bone lace bobbins from my great grandparents where they'd etched or punched their names with bits of cotton or silk still on them.
Speaker: which are very beautiful and nice to think that we're thinking and working with lace at the moment. I have, actually, I think it's a tablecloth, but it' it's ah I've used it as a throw and it's on one of my chairs in my front room ah that my mother embroidered.
Speaker: And I think she'd say, what have you got that on the chair for? Don't be showing that. and But it's just just lovely, just in terms of the just the old fabric, the lovely quality of the linen and the silk threads and simple design and...
Speaker: And the craftsmanship. And the craftsmanship and the father members who did it as well. Yeah, lovely. Thank you. Annika? When I was a kid, like a young kid in the early 80s, we had those marimacca curtains.
Speaker: You know, the isola, the big flowers. And I hated them. i thought it was terrible. I thought, why can't my parents just behave as other people? We had red doors, red bookshelves.
Speaker: And red marimekko curtains. And I was like, can't they just have a like brown sofa, nice white, you know just a normal house? So I was a bit like, okay, is this? And then later on in the 90s, my mother started to redecorate the house and she took all the curtains away and in the meantime. And I was like, what are you doing? how are Why are you taking red marimekko curtains? it was like it going from being like, okay, can't you just behave as normal people and have like this...
Speaker: normal things and went into like, then it became normal. It took some years. And then I was really like, God, please get the Curtis back, which you couldn't get at that time because Mary Mecca was at that time, not that's, you know, it's big thing again, but it was some years where you didn't really get, get the gods could find those materials anymore. So, but in the end we got them back. lovely. sort of But I have a lot of like linens from my hand woven,
Speaker: tea towels for my grandmother's and all those like heritage things that they're really, yeah. Very dear. Lovely. Thank you So we've just got a few more questions where we're just going to reflect a bit about Flock and and zoom out a little bit as well. What have you learned about yourself over the last couple of years of setting up and developing Flock?
Speaker: Sarah What have I learned about myself? That I so still continue to work on projects where there's always a real challenge. Yeah. And it's it has to be part of my DNA. i You know, I think that goes for us all, really. But the last two showcases that we've done at Future Fabrics Expo in Brussels this year and also in Munich at the Munich Fabric Start. Well, to just to reflect when you...
Speaker: are able to at some point stand back from the work and look at it. We don't, well, so certainly I i i don't do that as often as I should.
Speaker: i think it's difficult when you're in the moment and you're you're so involved with the project and you're just going and going and going. You don't really see it. But I think i think because of the comments that we got, which were generally all really positive, even from the organisers of Future Fabrics Expo, was just really nice to hear. And as I say, you don't necessarily stand back from your work and look at it objectively. And certainly in Munich, when we had you know more space and we were able to hang banners.
Speaker: Yeah, I felt myself sort of reflecting on on the journey and what we'd produced and thinking, how did we do that? And being quite emotional in terms of thinking just having a moment and just, to yes, that's two years of work.
Speaker: That's what's happened. And maybe just in terms of Yeah, just thinking that, yeah, it is possible to to do that, that sort of a project or get to a level or maybe that's, we don't always recognise that in what you do on a day to day basis.
Speaker: Absolutely. yeah You have so much to be proud of, honestly. And it's great that you got that opportunity to step back and and really look at it and see what you've achieved. Yeah, wonderful. Wonderful to hear that. Annika, how about yourself? What have you learned about yourself over the last couple of years?
Speaker: Well, that I really like the combination of research and design. I didn't know it before, but I kind of let it go because I'm working on so many different things. And now this this project together with Sarah and Sarah, i've very much, it has been a joy.
Speaker: I know it's just not not always been easy, but I mean, we have, it's a really, I'm so happy that we met each other and we got this opportunity to work together on this project and dive into it And what Sarah said, it has been a really, really busy spring.
Speaker: So seeing everything together in Munich was really like, oh, wow, we really, we have gone so far with this project and it would be like really so great to take the next step and see, so where do we go now? Can we get it? Yeah.
Speaker: produce and yeah exciting times when just looking back on this journey again is there something you've changed your mind about you know whether that's about materials the industry or even how innovation happens has there been a shift in your thinking Sarah t I think as a as a designer artist, it's always interesting to see how people react to whatever you've made or give them.
Speaker: thus So I think that's always really interesting to see. And that gives you it a different sort of energy and understanding about your material.
Speaker: in In terms of just being so absorbed in sustainable materials, it's It makes you very, very conscious and aware of materials that aren't. It's just generally just looking at fabrics that are in the shops and not just fabrics, but materials generally, because we we are we're developing materials, we're thinking about materials, that there's so many bad materials and fabrics that are still there.
Speaker: And then I find that upsetting. And I think that's, well, partly because we have to, we've got a responsibility now, but because of this sort of real focus in our project ah on sustainability and using natural materials, and there's always a debate around natural materials and et cetera, et cetera, but it just makes you acutely aware of this complete contrast that's happening and the frustration that there still is in seeing what's out there and what is being produced.
Speaker: And that, in a way, that makes you more determined to do what you do. And I think that behind Flock for all of us is a will to try to even in a small way, to try to shift that change in and mentality and get people to think about materials in a different way or come back to Flock because we have alternative solutions. Yeah, brilliant. Love that.
Speaker: Annika, has anything changed your mind? Well, actually, I think when Sarah and Sarah asked me to do this, I was like, okay, yeah, why not? It still sounds interesting. yeah Let's do it. i I must say, I didn't really know whether the market or like, we got so many positive reactions and that's also a shame because I was like, yeah, well, let's try it. Let's see what happens. But I mean,
Speaker: the positive responses we got and also like bigger companies looking at us, like what are they actually up to? Almost in a little bit intense way sometimes. They're really like, oh, but we're really onto something. And think that was something that I wasn't really sure what way it would go in the beginning.
Speaker: And that really surprised me, the so the positive reactions and the how people actually see the project Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the possibilities that you've opened up, the doors that you've opened up yeah in this you know area of flocking, it's really amazing. It really is just so exciting for me also, because you've done it in such a short time and on really tight budgets as well. I know how difficult it's been and I know you've been... sort of going from very small grants to very small grants, but you've achieved so much in that time in very tight budgets to come to a point where you're ready to to scale and you're ready to run into hundreds of meters. And that is really, really remarkable. I speak to many, many startups daily.
Speaker: And I have to say that what you have achieved is really remarkable. You have to be proud of yourself. So yeah, I wish I could give you a big hug. Here's a big virtual hug for you. Absolutely thrilled to see what you've done.
Speaker: Based on that, how would you know, now that you've had the experience of building up Flock, how would you encourage someone at the very beginning of of a similar journey? What would you ask them to pay attention to or maybe even worry less about?
Speaker: Well, I think that maybe from our conversations, just, you know, in this interview, we probably weren't sure what we were. We weren't sure of the journey that was going to happen. Probably just as well. But... um that But I think if someone was starting out, I think you have to really believe in what you do because there's going to be a lot of knocks along the way and there might not be the finance in place. There might not be the support that you necessarily need. But I would say that within this field, there's some really generous people in similar situations and there's a lot of support there. So I think that...
Speaker: Perhaps if you're starting out, go to some of these fairs, trade shows that are going to allow you to see the type of work that's going on. So you can reference something we always say to students as well. now Make sure you you reference what's going on so that you can say, oh, yeah, I do something similar. And then have those conversations together.
Speaker: And I would also say that for us, collaboration has been really, really important. And we've talked about how we bring different different skills to the mix of ah the project as well. And so teaming up with different people and being able to embrace collaboration so you don't feel as if you're on your own as well.
Speaker: And it's a journey. like anything else. And I think it's it's better to to try and to fail through ambition than not try because it's a very exciting field and there's so many possibilities and there's so many people with really interesting ideas.
Speaker: And i would like to think that, but you know, there's an opportunity for people to be able to explore those ideas and passions. yeah Absolutely. What are your thoughts, Annika?
Speaker: Well, I think i will second that. I think collaboration is key and to be open under the road, what you come because you will bump into things unexpected and see, okay, well, what can we do with that? You know, so keep it open.
Speaker: Don't be afraid to talk to people or reach out to people, even bigger companies, because, you know, there's a lot of generosity out there and really a lot of people who are interesting to help and to to, maybe if they can't help, send you to somebody else.
Speaker: So use the knowledge of the the community and everybody you bump into on the way. Absolutely. That's such a wonderful note to end on. So positive to hear about the generosity that that we do have in this space. You're absolutely right. People are so helpful. And, you know, if you're a little new startup and you're still in your, you know, working things out in your lab,
Speaker: You're like, oh, why would companies bother speaking to me? Or why would that company who's five years ahead of me, you know, will they ever give me any information? But I really have seen how encouraging, how supportive the community is. And I think that's as a textile, maybe even fashion sector, we haven't been very collaborative. Everyone's been very secretive about who their suppliers are and what they do and everything. But I feel like there's ah a change now and it has to be much more joined up, much more collaborative. And I remember that being one of the the themes of the conversations through both Future Fabrics Expo and Textile Recycling Expo. They were all talking about the need for us to to work closer together across the supply chain to really create value and to transform the sector. So I love that you highlighted how generous everybody is with their contacts, with their information, with their experience, both the good and the bad. People tell you very openly what they you know where they have failed and what has worked and what hasn't worked. And I think that's something we really should be proud of. And um again, always, you know, if when people do approach us to be as open and generous as well. So I love that. What a great way to end this amazing conversation. i have i had many more questions, but we will wrap up for today. Thank you for just sharing so honestly and openly about what's happened in the last couple of years for you as Flock, as a company. but also in your personal journey, how you've evolved and grown in the process as well. I will definitely be keeping a very, very close eye to see what the next year and two years look like. But I'm excited. i know big things are going to happen and we're cheering you on.
Speaker: And there's lots of support for you guys. Thank you again for your time. Thank you so much for inviting us. oh Thank you, Millie.
Speaker: Wow, what an inspiring episode. I'm always blown away by the passion and dedication that guests on my podcast have. Sarah, Sarah and Annika are so focused and committed to solving a huge challenge in the textile industry that is pretty much invisible to most of us, yet it is such a critical one.
Speaker: Flock invites us to see value where the industry has so too often seen absolute waste in the short fibers, clippings and dust left behind at textile production centers.
Speaker: The team are transforming those fibers into the most luxurious flocked surfaces I have seen. They're absolutely gorgeous. Flock has proven that its natural fiber flock can perform just as well as its incumbent, the synthetic fibers that are used currently.
Speaker: They're in fact able to produce 100 meters of flocked fabric now, which is getting them closer to market. They have proven that they can scale and I believe they're standing at the verge of an exciting opportunity to transform the flocking sector.
Speaker: If anyone's interested in connecting with them and having a discussion about developing some flock for yourself, please do get in touch with me. I'll be more than happy to make an introduction.
Speaker: Before I wrap up, I wanted to remind my young listeners about the Swarovski Foundation's Creatives for Our Future program that is now open. This is an incredible opportunity to bring your idea to life and help change our future. so if you're 21 to 30, working across fashion, textiles and product design, this could be your chance to receive ah grant, mentorship and industry support to bring your idea to life.
Speaker: Please do remember that the application closes on the 9th of November, 2026. You can find the link in the show notes below. This opportunity is open to anyone around the world that fit the age criteria. They're looking for the best ideas and yours could be the one.
Speaker: If you're interested to learn more about textile waste, check out episode 22, Beyond the Bin, where we look at the scale of fashion waste and circular solutions that keep that waste from ending up in landfills or incinerated.
Speaker: You can also check out episode one, Light and Lace, for more exciting work from Sarah and Sarah, especially their work in smart textiles and weaving lace with light.
Speaker: Please share this episode with anyone who might find it inspiring or valuable. Your support to spread the word is deeply appreciated. If you've enjoyed the episode, consider buying me coffee using the link below in the show notes. Thank you for joining me today. Stay tuned for more episodes and don't forget to subscribe for more conversations at the intersection of textiles, technology, craft and sustainability.
Speaker: Until next time, I'm Millie Tharakin reminding you that there is no such thing as ordinary cloth. Every thread and fibre tells a story.
Speaker: Music
