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Ep 32. Clean Run: Detoxing the Running Jacket I Part 2 - Dye, Finish and Construction with Jean Francoise Benoit, Jun Kamei and Matthais Feossel
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We tend to think a running jacket performs because of its fabric. In reality, much of what we experience – the colour, the way water beads on the surface, how quickly it dries – comes from an invisible layer of chemistry added after the fabric is made. Those dyes, coatings and finishes are where some of the most persistent and problematic substances in performance wear quietly sit.
In this second episode of Clean Run, host Mili Tharakan takes the same high street running jacket from Episode 1 and goes one layer deeper – beyond fibres into finishing and construction. She asks: can we rebuild this jacket without toxic chemistry, and design it so that its end of life is already built in?
To answer that, Mili is joined by three guests who are each tackling a different “invisible” part of the jacket
Guests:
- Jean François Benoit, Development Engineer, Resortecs – inventing Smart Stitch (heat‑dissolvable sewing threads) and Smart Disassembly (industrial ovens that unpick garments at end of life), so complex multi‑material products can be taken apart automatically and sent to the right recyclers.
- Jun Kamei, Founder & CEO, Amphico – developing Amphicolour, a near‑waterless colouration system that embeds pigment at the yarn stage, and Amphitex, a PFAS‑free waterproof, breathable membrane based on polyolefins, designed to be recyclable.
- Matthias Foessel, Founder & CEO, Beyond Surface Technologies – creating high‑performance textile finishes under the miDori brand, using bio‑based oils and waxes such as microalgae instead of petrochemicals, and replacing PFAS‑based DWR with palm‑oil‑free green chemistry that runs on existing mill equipment.
In this episode:
- The hidden environmental cost of conventional textile dyeing and why it drives emissions and water pollution. How dope‑dyed yarns and colour‑mixing at weave stage can cut water, energy and CO₂ dramatically
- What PFAS “forever chemicals” are, why they’re used in outdoor fabrics, and why they’re a problem.
- Emerging PFAS‑free waterproof membranes and the challenges of scaling
- The role of textile finishes in performance – and their reliance on petrochemical chemistry
- How bio‑based finishes from sources like microalgae can match conventional performance
- Why sewing thread blocks garment recycling and what smart disassembly can change
- How Smart Stitch enables clean separation of complex garments into recyclable material streams
- The cost, procurement and policy barriers slowing adoption of these innovative solutions
The Clean Run series is inspired by the Performance Without Toxicity exhibition, curated by The Mills Fabrica in partnership with Goldwin, open until 26th June 2026 at Fabrica X in London. Entry is free.
Clean Run is a three-part series. Part 2 explores the hidden chemistry and construction of the jacket, Part 3 will explore innovations in care, repair and end of life of the jacket. Hit subscribe to be notified of next episode
Connect with Mili Tharakan: Linkedin I Insta I Buy me a coffee
Cover art: Photo by Siora, Photography on Unsplash. Music: Inspired Ambient, Orchestrama
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Transcript
The Environmental Impact of Running Jackets
00:00:14
Speaker
This is an ordinary running jacket. You can buy one just like it almost in any sports shop today. It's lightweight, it stretches, it repels water. And when you're done with your run, you chuck it in for a wash and pick it up again for your next run.
Reimagining Sustainable Performance Wear
00:00:28
Speaker
Every time you wear a running jacket, you're wearing a product built almost entirely from fossil fuel-derived materials. The nylon that gives it structure, the polyester that lines the pocket, the elastane that makes it move with your body...
00:00:43
Speaker
Materials that work brilliantly on the trail, but it comes with a hidden cost most of us never see.
Inspiration from Performance Without Toxicity
00:00:49
Speaker
It's in the chemistry used to make it, it's in what it releases when we wash it, and in what happens to it when it's worn out.
00:00:56
Speaker
This is Clear Run, a three-part series that takes an ordinary running jacket and asks a single question.
Sustainable Solutions and Innovations
00:01:02
Speaker
What would it look like if we rebuilt it from scratch without the petrochemicals and toxins that are so commonly present?
00:01:10
Speaker
Across three episodes, we follow the running jacket from its fiber and fabrics all the way to the end of its life, meeting the innovators who are radically rethinking each layer, the materials, the chemistry, construction, care, and recovery.
00:01:24
Speaker
Clean Run is inspired by the Performance Without Toxicity exhibition, exploring sustainable and circular innovations in performance wear. And in this series, we will dive deep to unpack some of the solutions that are showcased here.
00:01:36
Speaker
The exhibition is curated by Mills Fabrica in partnership with Goldman Innovations. It is open until 26 June 2026 in London. So if you're in the city, please, please, please don't miss it. You will absolutely love it.
From Fibers to Fabric Treatment
00:01:49
Speaker
It is fantastic.
00:01:51
Speaker
I'm Millie Tharakin and this is No Ordinary Cloth where we stitch together a rich tapestry of innovations bubbling up at the intersection of textiles, emerging technology, craft and sustainability. Join me today for a glimpse into the future of performance wear.
00:02:07
Speaker
In part one of the series, we pulled apart the fibers of the running jacket, the nylon, polyester and elastane and met the innovators who are reformatting the very ingredients used to make these materials and inventing sustainable and circular alternatives.
00:02:23
Speaker
With them, we started to imagine what a toxic-free jacket might look and feel like.
Innovative Textile Sustainability Guests
00:02:28
Speaker
But fibres are only part of the story. Because once those fabrics are made, something more happens to them. They're dyed with different colours, coated and treated, and finally stitched together to make the jacket.
00:02:42
Speaker
And it's in those steps, largely invisible to the person wearing the jacket, where some of the most persistent and problematic chemistry in the industry quietly sits.
00:02:53
Speaker
Today we go deeper, one more layer deeper. We look at the chemicals and threads that gets added to the fabric and find out if we can reconstruct a running jacket, which is free from harmful chemicals and with the end of life in mind.
00:03:09
Speaker
Joining me are three incredible guests who are going to help us answer that question.
AmphiCo's Toxic-Free Textile Chemistry
00:03:14
Speaker
We have with us today Jun Kamai, a CEO and founder of Amphico, Jean-Francois Benoit, development engineer of Resort Tech, and Matthias Fossil, the CEO and founder of Beyond Surface Technologies. A warm welcome to the No Ordinary Clock podcast. Wonderful to have you all here. And there's so much I want to learn from you. I have a lot of questions.
00:03:38
Speaker
But let's start with a quick round of introductions. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your company and the one thing about the textile industry you couldn't stop thinking about that made you want to change it. That moment when you said, i can't believe this is what goes on and I want to change it. What was that moment? Jin, let's start with you.
00:03:58
Speaker
Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be part of this podcast. My name is Jun Kamei. I'm the CEO and founder of AmphiCo, a London-based deep tech startup developing toxic-free chemistry for the textile industry. So we are currently developing two technologies, one which is called Amphitex and Diffiex. high performance waterproof textiles. And we have another technology called Amphicolor, which is solving the issue of usage of a lot of water and large energy consumption in coloration of textile.
00:04:36
Speaker
One thing that has prompted me in working hard and solving those problems is that it is actually very surprisingly not known that the fabric that we wear every day has a huge impact to both the environment but also to also our health. And not many solutions are actually available in the market. So I thought as a material scientist, i wanted to use my skill to have a better a good
Smart Disassembly by ResortX
00:05:02
Speaker
impact. And therefore, that's the one thing that has prompted me on starting the company and pushing hard through r and d Amazing. Thank you, Jen. Jean-François?
00:05:13
Speaker
Yes, so I'm also very honored to be invited to this discussion. So I'm Jean-Francois, French, as you can hear. But I'm working for a Brussels-based company, which is called ResortX. And what we are doing is making recycling easy by solving circular fashion's biggest hurdle. We are doing that thanks to garments disassembly, because that's a little bit what...
00:05:36
Speaker
made us wanting to tackle this ah this ah challenge because actually all the components, even most recyclable fabrics, if they are stitched together with other components that are not, they are blocked ah in these different layers or in these different
Bio-Based Textile Finishes
00:05:55
Speaker
designs that makes them not recyclable, even if they would be recyclable as standalone fabric.
00:06:02
Speaker
So ResortX solves this by inventing a melting thread that ah allows the separation of the different components during the life of the garment. So for repairs, for delabeling, also pre-consumer, but also at the end of life with our dedicated smart disassembly machines that are allowing the separation automatically of the different garments for proper sorting into their products.
00:06:29
Speaker
main composition and into their main colors. Lovely, really thank you. And how about you, Matthias? Matthias, you know, I was very happy to be part of this group here.
00:06:41
Speaker
We did already 18 years ago start Beyond Surface Technology and that was actually again already after two decades in textile chemical corporate world.
00:06:54
Speaker
So if you like, I've been to the dark side which obviously helps a lot if you do completely in depth understand of what the industry is currently doing and what kind of materials and the industry is actually using when developing textile chemicals. So at Beyond Service Technologies, we really do deal with the invisible bit for the consumer. We deal with all the chemicals that actually do create functional effects. So critical part of ah the garment of what we wear, but yet um they're invisible.
00:07:35
Speaker
And, you know, market standard is that all these chemistries are petroleum based. We are in a petroleum run world. And so we did, as I've said, 18 years ago, start to look into natural alternatives to those petroleum-based chemistries.
00:07:56
Speaker
um We have since developed multiple effect platforms and that would also for this imaginary running jacket be helpful or additive. And as to myself,
00:08:08
Speaker
There wasn't really one moment, I would say, that made me start beyond service technologies. It was more like a 20-year awakening on the corporate world or from the corporate side. But the idea grew more and more that...
00:08:25
Speaker
I just felt or I believed more and more that there are better alternatives available. We
Innovations in Waterless Dyeing
00:08:32
Speaker
just need to have the courage to explore them and to actually work with them. And nature is actually the best place to look for these alternatives.
00:08:42
Speaker
Absolutely. Courage. That's absolutely the word that you need, the the strength that you need to work and find these solutions. Like you said, they do exist. We just need to have the courage to find them. Thank you for that lovely introduction. As you know, we've been talking about this running jacket I've picked up from the high street. We've looked at the materials. Now we're going to go a layer deeper. So I'll tell you a bit more about the characteristics of the the running jacket. It's a light gray jacket. It's also available in navy, black and ivory. And it's described as waterproof, windproof and breathable.
00:09:18
Speaker
i mean, these are all things that we love and want in our running jackets, especially if you live here in the yeah UK and it's raining all the time. You need those qualities. And when I look at the label, it tells us what it's made from. So the fibers and fabrics. And this is what we unpacked in part one of this series. But it doesn't tell us anything about the dyes used to color the fabric, the chemical finishes that are applied to make it water repellent, or even the threads used to stitch it all together. And as a consumer, you simply have no way of knowing what chemistry goes into this jacket or what that chemistry means for your health and the planet. So this is what we're going to unpack today.
00:09:56
Speaker
And we're going to start with the more visible chemical, which will be the dyes. So Jin, bringing you in, i mean, anyone who knows me will tell you that I love colors. But sadly, the dyeing process is a costly one and it requires huge amount of water, chemicals and energy.
00:10:13
Speaker
Can you very briefly explain the scale and the problem of conventional dyeing process? And how does your approach totally flip that
Challenges in Sustainable Textile Adoption
00:10:22
Speaker
process on its head? So the conventional dyeing process relies a lot on water exactly because what we are doing in the conventional way is to put the uncoloured woven or knitted fabric into a vessel which is full of water. water, fresh water actually, and that contains also the colorants. So the the chemical dyes and also other chemicals called fixative, which allows the color chemical to stay quite nicely on the surface of the fabric material. And in order for those colors to go into the fabric material, you have to heat up that water bath at a very high degree under pressure.
00:11:06
Speaker
And that means that it's a lot of energy being consumed. And not only that, as a byproduct of it, not all of the color chemical can go into the fabric, meaning that you are left with a toxic effluent of, you know, it's basically... ah polluted water that contains the colorant and also the chemical fixation. And for that reason, um it is said that the coloration process of fabric alone consumes or produce equivalent of 1% of CO2 emission 1% of global CO2 emission, and also that it is responsible for 20% global water pollution. So it's this huge issue.
00:11:49
Speaker
And um in fashion, most colored fabric are being colored in this conventional way. And also the way we are tackling this problem is that instead of bringing color at the very last timing, we actually embed the colors at the very beginning, basically when the yarns are produced. So we put the colorant at the very beginning when the material is in a molten stage.
00:12:12
Speaker
And therefore you don't really need to use water. You don't really need to use additional energy.
Bio-Based vs. Petroleum-Based Finishes
00:12:16
Speaker
And we have devised an approach where you create only a finite amount of color yarn this way, and we mix them during weaving, meaning that out of a finite, you know, six to ten primary colored yarn, we can produce tens of thousands of colors as a result of weaving them. And that's allowing, you know,
00:12:40
Speaker
manufacturers and then brands to have the variety of the colors that they need in the fashion business, but to remove all of the water consumption and CO2 emissions. Can you give us some data or numbers to help us understand the impact um of the solutions, just to help our listeners kind of grasp it a little better? if it's a t-shirt that you were dyeing or if it's a 100 kg of textiles, how much water is involved in that? How much energy is involved in that?
00:13:07
Speaker
I think that's a really good point. So if you took, I mean, let's let's just stick to the example of a running jacket. The total amount of CO2 that was necessary to produce, you know, the material, on the manufacturing, and also the transportation, about one third is coming from just the coloration process.
00:13:25
Speaker
um and And our technology allows, compared to the conventional coloration methods or fabric colored in the conventional way, to have at least a reduction of 15%. So this is quite big. And if we're to just only compare on the coloration stage, we reduce um the CO2 emission by approximately 50%. So these are a combination of external tests and then internal tests that has allowed us to get those data. So that's on the CO2 emission reduction point.
00:13:58
Speaker
In terms of the water reduction, first of all, there's a lot of like water being used in coloring fabrics. So it depends on the type of fabric, but it is said that for one kilogram of of fabric, you're using 100 liters of fresh water. Obviously, you know there's a range depending on the technology, the factory, and also the fabric, but it gives you an idea that it's a lot of fresh water to being used.
00:14:23
Speaker
um Compared to the conventional method, if you just look at the coloration process, we reduce water usage by more than 90%. And then if you compare it at a fabric level, it's approximately 50% reduction. And the reason why there's a difference is, you know, even if the coloration process may be fully waterless, you still have to, you know make sure that you wash the fabric after you've done all of the process because in manufacturing, you know, you you sometimes have residue and then you have to remove it. So so that's basically, you know, the reason why it's a 50% reduction when you look at the fabric level.
Market Adoption of Textile Innovations
00:15:00
Speaker
Your approach of sort of adding color at that extrusion stage of the yarn, also known as dope dyeing, that's been around. But what really you've brought to the table and the innovation and the exciting part that I really would love to dig into is the range of colors that you're able to get with just these six to ten primary colors that you've developed.
00:15:19
Speaker
And you're sort of cleverly mixing these limited number of colors in yarn form. to get thousands and thousands of more of amazing colors. So tell us a bit more about that and what that approach has been. Why did you go down this route rather than making all the colors possible or making colors on request?
00:15:36
Speaker
That is a super yeah good point.
00:15:40
Speaker
or dope dyeing, you have an issue from the constraints of the manufacturing process. So if you use solution dyeing in order to color your yarn, the manufacturer always wants to at least create one ton per color. And it's it's necessary for this process to become economically viable. um But you know on the other hand, No brand would want to have one ton of the same color. So that's basically the limitation. So therefore, solution dyeing, unfortunately, wasn't really being used in the fashion industry that much because of that disparity between what the manufacturer needs to produce in order it to be economically viable, but what the brand wants. in terms of minimum order quantity per color.
00:16:21
Speaker
And one thing we realized that, you know, you have this issue because you're trying to create all of the color at the yarn stage. But if you could create the final color during the weaving stage, that constraint would disappear, right? And that's exactly what we've done. Just to give you an analogy, we've looked at how you can print so many colors using printer, but only from full coloring. And that's happening, you know, in the printing industry. And we're like, well, why can't you use the same analogy. Instead of ink, we have colored yarn. And instead of paper, we have, you know, the woven surface. And we did it. and and
00:16:56
Speaker
And surprisingly, it's working quite well. And it's obviously working quite well for finer fabrics, but, you know, we use a lot of finer fabrics. So that's basically the approach we have taken. And it's great because it allows, you know, now brands to adopt a much more sustainable fabric without compromising on the colour and colour flexibility. So in part one, we heard from Ozone Bio, Supercarb and TerraMira, whose bio-based fibre and fabric potentially in the future be used to construct this imaginary jacket of ours. Can your waterless dyeing technology be used alongside these bio-based yarns or are there limitations to the kinds of fibres you can dye?
00:17:38
Speaker
So basically our approach would work with yarn that are solution diable. So um synthetic, semi-synthetic, also some of the bio-based material which would be on using wet spinning. So all of these would be applicable. This is not a technology which is limited on a...
00:17:59
Speaker
enough very fine number of material type. It's quite versatile. And I think that's also why it's interesting. you know This coloration approach is more of a manufacturing innovation rather than like a pure material innovation. So we can work with different material innovators who have developed a much better you know alternative to, for example, nylon or alternative to polyester or like a new protein based material. And and i think that's why it's very exciting. So we're not necessarily competing against them. Like they would be a very, you know, great partner to work with to make the whole thing much more, you know, sustainable.
00:18:34
Speaker
Absolutely. So you're one of the sort of points along that supply chain. So now we've got the colouring of this jacket. I wanted to now move on to ah the waterproofing that this jacket claims to have. Can you explain how ordinary outdoor jacket is usually made waterproof or water repellent? What are the different methods that are used?
00:18:55
Speaker
There are different ways, um and it's always worth differentiating you know the water repellency of a fabric and then the waterproofness. Water repellency is the ability to repair water, and that one, you know this is not an immediate technology that we have on. It's probably more like the domain of Matthias. What we have expertise in is on making fabric waterproof, meaning that we add in In order to make a fabric waterproof, you are actually adding another layer behind the woven fabric, and that layer completely stops water from going through it. And it's almost like a film, but if you zoom in with a a microscope, so you'd see a very tiny pores, and that is designed to stop water in liquid form but allow water in vapor form to escape. That's why like you can make something that is waterproof but also breathable.
00:19:46
Speaker
And we have been, yes, working on developing a waterproofing layer, so that film, without using any PFAS chemistry, because before PFAS regulation were announced, surprisingly, all of the very good waterproofing layer were made from PFAS chemical, because PFAS are so good at repelling water. So people just use that chemistry to do it.
00:20:12
Speaker
PFAS has recently become a headline issue. And for listeners who haven't come across that term, can you explain what PFAS or Forever Chemicals are? Well, you touched upon that, you know, why they're so widely used in performance, where they're so good at what they're supposed to do But what makes them so hard to move away from and why we want to move away from them?
00:20:31
Speaker
So PFAS is a category name for per and polyfluoroalkyl substances. um So it's the name of a group. So it's not like one chemical, but it's the name of the whole category. and The reason why they've been used a lot in many industries is because they they have very good resistance to water. They repel water. They also repel oil.
00:20:52
Speaker
and They also have very good mechanical properties when they are in polymer form. Also high temperature resistance when it's in polymer form. Very, very malleable when it's in a polymer form. And I think like when it's in a shorter form, they have, you know, excellent adhesives. ability to to repel liquids. and and And they've been very versatile. And I guess when this chemical came into the industry, no one knew the the toxicity of those chemicals. I think now there's a lot of research. And um within the group, there are many, many chemicals in that PFAS group that has been proven to have toxic effects on you know living beings.
00:21:37
Speaker
And also the the the other issue is that they persist, so they don't really degrade. So you're saying when you wash your jacket, it tends to get into the water and then it's in the waterway. Yes, that's correct. So if a PFAS chemical goes into nature, then it doesn't really degrade. So basically, it gets accumulated into organism and then through the chain, you know, it also reaches us.
00:22:00
Speaker
But there are also studies where, you know, there's sometimes direct inhalation of PFAS chemical that are on the garment. So you don't actually need to wait for the chemical nature to reach There's a direct way where it can go into your body.
00:22:14
Speaker
um and There's no real way for a consumer to look at a jacket and see whether it's got PFAS treatment or not. So what you've developed with Amphitex is a PFAS-free, waterproof, breathable membrane that is fully recyclable. Can you tell us a bit more about how this works? What is the technology behind it?
00:22:33
Speaker
And um how did you develop it? So basically what we've done is like we we looked at an alternative material that can replace the PFAS element in traditional waterproof visible membrane. So that was made from PTFE. We've tried to match as much as possible the property of that without using any of the PFAS chemistry.
00:22:57
Speaker
To begin with, you know we have managed to create that waterproofing layer, but we are currently working on additional technology that would allow us to ah create all of the layer of a waterproof and breathable textile, even including the woven layer out of a similar chemistry. We're using polyolefin based material.
00:23:18
Speaker
polyolefin is again a category name that would include things like PP or PE. So it's still synthetic but you know much much better from a toxicity perspective compared to PFASs and we've been working on on that formulation and then on manufacturing technology that would allow that specific formulation to be torn turned into that film and the nano and micro architecture that would allow water vapor to escape. So that's basically the the technology that we have now. And then we are expanding that into also the woven layer so that we can make in the future something that is fully made of the same type of material.
00:23:58
Speaker
Nice. And what's been your biggest challenge in getting these products, either Amphitex or Amphicolor, into the mainstream market? So, I mean, luckily with Fikara, we we ah having a lot of interest um in the in the technology. um of The challenge that we have is obviously, you know, even us having completed the scaling process, you know, it's not like we have...
00:24:23
Speaker
10 type of fabrics and then, you know, some of the colors immediately available. So compared to the flexibility that the fashion industry is used, even though our technology is much, much more flexible compared to a conventional solution dyed, know, type of fabric, it's still, there's still some like gap in being meet the flexibility expectation of the brand or textile distributor. So there is that element that we are still kind of, you know, trying to to match and then also present that, you know, having thousands of color is already like quite good to begin with ah one one type of textile. On the amphitext side, it's a much more technical product. So depending on, you know, our partner, they have different property requirements. So we still have to do some R&D adjustments so that we are 100% sure that it's matching,
00:25:17
Speaker
their criteria. And it is a much more complex textile because you have the woven layer, you have this membrane layer, and then those two things need to be laminated together using specific type of glue. So because all of this, there's still more some technical alignment that needs to be made in order for it to be ticking the box of of our partners.
00:25:40
Speaker
You mentioned there's been a lot of interest for Amphicolor from brands, which is brilliant. That's what we want to hear. Are you able to share names of ah some brands or is that all under and NDA? Yes, unfortunately, I feel like until it comes to the store, it's still secret. But I can 100% say that there's interest. And then the day where this will be on the on the retail store is not too far in the future.
00:26:06
Speaker
Love that. We'll keep an eye out for that for sure. So thank you, Jun. It's fascinating work and the impact that you achieve is is truly remarkable, especially eliminating PFAS from products and also reducing fresh water from dying. Fresh water becoming more and more scarce and it'ss ah it's the water that we need for drinking.
00:26:25
Speaker
um So diverting it from the textile industry is a great thing. Okay, now that we have a beautifully colored fabric, um we can move on to another aspect of the running jacket.
00:26:36
Speaker
Treatments such as moisture wicking and fast drying. I mean, we want these qualities in our sportswear, but we've rarely stopped to think about the chemistry of these finishes. So, Matthias, can you explain what textile finishes actually do, or the different types of textile finishes there are, and why the conventional version is so problematic?
00:26:56
Speaker
I've been struggling in explaining that since 20 years or so. So I really try because it's ah not known to the consumer, I would say, because like you said in the beginning, these finishes are invisible.
00:27:11
Speaker
you would think that if your jacket absorbs your sweat and dries fast, or if you run through the rain and you're not getting wet, then that comes primarily from the fiber you are wearing, you know, because that's what they see, that's what they feel.
00:27:27
Speaker
And quite often that fiber by itself would only contribute ah very small extent to the performance you want to actually see and feel.
00:27:38
Speaker
So in order to get to that performance, almost all of these fibers or fabrics are being treated with textile chemicals. And then again, almost all of them are petroleum based.
00:27:52
Speaker
We are using petroleum if we need raw material with quite a high carbon footprint to um enhance fabrics, ah to provide certain functionalities. And so that was basically driving us or, you know, we were like, okay, if that was like 50, 60 years ago, then yeah, maybe this is when these chemicals were started to being developed. But, you know, when we started, it was like the year 2008, there must be better raw materials, there must be better components available that can do alike and are not finite and don't have the same high carbon footprint.
00:28:31
Speaker
Let's say when you look at wicking quick-dry finishes, quite often you're using either synthetic polymer chemistries like synthetic polyurethanes or you use silicone chemistry, palm oil-based chemistry or polyester-based copolymers. So all truly crude petroleum-based chemistry with all their implications. And when we looked at ah the Viking quick dry finishes, we thought like, okay, they all start with an oil, right? And how does nature produce oil, for example, right? And what kind of oils are available in nature? one step back, you know, we we truly believe in partnerships when we develop new um chemicals because, you know, we can bring in all that textile chemical know-how, but there's other companies that have a lot better know-how when it comes to bio-based materials, you know, fermented materials or just materials or how to look at nature and find these kind of interesting species. So we have um quite a few biotech companies as partners that provide us with these base materials, which we then take and develop these textile chemical finishes from. And so coming back to that oil thing, you know, so we we have been working together with a biotech company in Berkeley in in the US, and they um found
Revolutionary Smart Stitch Technology
00:30:09
Speaker
a microalgae strain.
00:30:12
Speaker
Microalgae are the oldest oil producing species on earth, right? So it took us about three years together with um that company, Checkerspot, to find a strain that produced an oil that that had all the features that we were looking for, that we could take and then use other natural ingredients to formulate a vicking finish from.
00:30:39
Speaker
So we were basically able to find a natural produced oil that we could turn into a textile chemical finish that runs on the same machines, that runs under the same process conditions, that even looks alike. So if we provide that chemical to a textile mill around the world and they open the drum,
00:31:07
Speaker
They wouldn't even think it's a natural chemical. so when And this is what we love to do, right? we We come in and we actually talk about performance and meeting performance expectations and then kind of hopefully surprise um our customers or our brand partners. They're like, Yeah, so we can meet your specification. And by the way, it's no more based on crude oil.
00:31:35
Speaker
So that that is maybe one example where you look into nature, you find um materials that are that haven't been used in textile chemicals previously. And then you know you bring in all these different kinds of expertise, you put them together. And then what's important to us, we we we love these, what we call these plug and play ah solutions, right? Make it easy.
00:32:02
Speaker
In our industry, and you know that nobody loves to change a running system, right? I think that's one issue of getting new things adopted. So we believe we we need to make it really as simple as possible to to use our chemicals.
00:32:19
Speaker
we We do know that it is valuable for them if they can use their existing machines, use their existing processes, don't need to change anything. Just make it easy for them to to adopt it and surprise people.
00:32:33
Speaker
basically the user as well as the brand partner that we can now meet those performance expectations and not having to use petroleum-based chemistry ah anymore.
00:32:46
Speaker
It's performance first. We are not wanting to sell because we have green chemistry. We want to sell because our chemistry works, right? That's the idea.
00:32:58
Speaker
I love that. You mentioned green chemistry just very casually there. Could you very briefly explain what that is for our listeners? Very good question. Because i think that's a term that's not defined, not even not well defined, simply not defined or can be defined in so many different ways. So it's the same like bio-based chemistry. If if we look into our industry, you can find bio-based chemicals and the bio content is 5%.
00:33:29
Speaker
right So there's 95% of petroleum and there's 5% of bio and it's called a bio-based chemical and and anything in between. So for ourselves, we said that's um that's not acceptable or that... that That doesn't make sense. if we If we start a company wanting to advance green chemistry, then we need to clearly define on what we do understand when we talk about a bio-based chemical. And so in our case, what we said is We will only talk about a bio-based chemical when every single ingredient that we put in and in one single textile chemical, let's say in a vicking finish, there might be 15 raw materials being put together, right? It's not just a single ingredient. So all of the intentionally used ingredients, we want to have at least... 75% being bio-based with the goal of achieving 100%. Currently, our product range is between 86% and 100%.
00:34:40
Speaker
The microalgae wicking finish that I've been describing a minute ago is 100% biocarbon-based. biocarbon- based And we do use an external analysis.
00:34:52
Speaker
we We use the um USDA, which is a US s authority that actually um analyzes the biocarbon content across multiple industries.
00:35:05
Speaker
And so you send a product to them and basically they independently um analyze the biocarbon content. these are the numbers that we put forward. So it's all external numbers. When it comes to the USDA, they're even publicly visible.
00:35:21
Speaker
So anyone can go on their database and search for some products and and see the biocarbon ah content if they were tested. You have several products that you offer at the moment for different kinds of finishing. um Can you give us an example of what else you have beyond the quick dry and wicking? Yeah.
00:35:41
Speaker
I mean, you know, going back to our jacket. Yes. And then I think there's a quite a nice handover from what Youn described to where we are coming from. So, you know, um some of these running jackets may only carry a Viking quick dry finish, like the very lightweight summer kind jackets. But...
00:36:04
Speaker
I would say even a larger number of those jackets would carry a water repellent finish. What you described, you know, when you when you have the these laminates, there's still the outer layer of the fabric that will be treated with a water repellent finish.
00:36:22
Speaker
And like ah um with the membrane, you know, previously all these water repellent finishes were also based on PFAS.
00:36:33
Speaker
Maybe because I'm um almost four decades now in this industry, thinking back, an interesting learning case for me, when these PFAS chemicals were launched, they were considered the newest and safest textile chemicals available.
00:36:54
Speaker
So because they were inert, people believed like, oh great, you know nothing is gonna happen when you use them and when you apply them and when you wear them, even in the science community. So it's really interesting that only then over time with better methods of analysis, better understanding, you know the issue became apparent and and and you know clear. So for me, you know, i bring this example because whatever we develop today, we we always reflect and review on what we are using because, you know, maybe what we are using today is great, but there may be some hidden issues there that we don't know yet. And we need to be, you know, we we can't stop ah reflecting on what we are putting into clothes, even if it's
00:37:46
Speaker
bio-based chemistry. Bio-based by itself doesn't mean safe or great, right? So when it came to water repellent, I'm sorry, I was deviating. When it when it comes to to water repellent finishes, the alternatives to to the PFAS-based chemicals is basically looking back on what did we have before PFAS ended the market.
00:38:10
Speaker
right So companies were looking at hydrocarbon-based finishes, polymer-based finishes. And I believe the market has come pretty much to very, very similar solutions that you have nowadays when it comes to PFAS-free finishes. They really just differentiate marginally, I would like to say,
00:38:36
Speaker
And a lot of those finishes are using synthetic polymers, more like the backbone, the thing that holds your finish on the fiber when you treat it.
00:38:47
Speaker
and And then you have hydrocarbon chains that give you the water repellency. And those quite often are actually come from palm oil or palm oil derivatives.
00:39:01
Speaker
When we started to look into developing PFAS-free DWRs, we were looking at it like twofold, right? Is there possibly sources of sustainably grown palm oil if we want to use palm oil? Or are there even ways around having to use palm oil as the alternative? Because to me, it sounds a bit like, you know, you you try to eliminate...
00:39:30
Speaker
one issue with a potential other issue, right? I mean, the magnitudes are different, admit right? But but still, you know, using more and more palm oil is is not what we want to see.
00:39:45
Speaker
when When we were looking at non-palm oil-based alternatives, we we were starting to screen hundreds of natural wax um components. The latest products we do develop are basically not using palm oil components anymore they're free of palm oil and they use different kind of natural waxes that we try to cleverly kind of mix and and add their different performance peaks so that when you bring them together you do have a very good and and durable um water repellent performance
00:40:25
Speaker
It's the most difficult subject in our industry to discuss because PFAS had some great characteristics, PFAS-based water repellents.
00:40:37
Speaker
They were just extremely robust, meaning, you know, Jun-Rapha, you I can tell a lot of what he said that I can relate to. You know, when when you look at these dyeing processes and Hün mentioned residuals that remain from the dyeing process on the fabric, you know, they all make it harder for you to get to a great water repellency.
00:41:00
Speaker
PFAS, when you have played PFAS based chemistries, as long as you play applied enough, you had the performance. Now, when you walk away from PFAS-based chemistry, you know, it's impurities, you know, of construction, the way you die, the way you wash it off, it it all...
00:41:24
Speaker
you know will impact your final performance that you can achieve. So there's also a need for collaborating across the value chain, right? That's why you know when Hune and myself met in Mills Fabrica event in London, you know was like, we we really have to talk together and we have to work together because his solution, we can basically tie right into and and add the next layer to get to your running jacket you know and that that we were all um that we are talking about
Consumer Influence on Sustainability
00:41:58
Speaker
today. oh This is what gets me really excited when people collaborate like that along the supply chain. And it's very encouraging to hear that it's already happening as a result of this exhibition. Your products are quite widely adopted in the market. Midori, the brand that you see. So is it possible for people to find that on a swing tag? Or how do how does how do people find out if their jacket's got your treatment on it?
00:42:25
Speaker
it It is. I mean, we we are really thankful. and and And I believe when we did start 18 years ago, we, you know, that's what we were really hoping for to see that some of the biggest global sportswear, leisurewear, apparel brands are actually using our products.
00:42:42
Speaker
However, for the consumer, it's not always easy to find out if our products are on because we we are not the key ingredient, right? So we are not always called out. Like like I've said, people, consumers don't even know how much chemistry is being put on or into a garment. And and so it's not been really talked about publicly.
00:43:07
Speaker
And then again, when you work with these huge brands, they obviously promote their brand, yeah right? I mean, it's like, it's their brand, right? It's that ingredient branding, which was maybe more hyped, quite a few years ago.
00:43:22
Speaker
ah That's not where it is right now. So it's like, it's the brand you're promoting, it's your brand. And and therefore, you know, for the consumer to find that ingredient component, that textile finish,
00:43:36
Speaker
It's not easy, unfortunately. On some of these brands, you know, if you go on their website, you go on the search function, you punch in Midori, which actually is the Japanese word for green.
00:43:47
Speaker
So our green chemistry, that's the the trademark we we registered. you You will get hits, right? But maybe not even on all of the garments where it's been used, but at least on some. And, then you know, like can say like you one of our longest and and closest partner, Patagonia, using the Midori range. but Many other really big ah globally leading brands do, but do not have references on their website.
00:44:15
Speaker
Yeah. But then could you name some of them so that we know who they are? I think I can because it's all, you know, it's that they do use it. And even if they don't talk about it, it's, ah youve you have, like i've said, you know, starting with our friends from Patagonia, but then you have ah brands like Fabletics, Lululemon, you know, Adidas, ah Puma, Levi's, the PVH Corp, Tommy, Calvin Klein, Superdry and so on and so on. I love that. These brands are just rolling out. Yeah.
00:44:48
Speaker
I have to apologize because I do miss all the other ones. And please, that there was no any particular order there. But it's it's it's's extremely pleasing to see that we were able from an idea that 18 years ago people thought was completely crazy, right? We were way ahead of the curve, let's say.
00:45:09
Speaker
And now seeing the product in the market, working with these huge brands, um is it it feels rewarding. yeah Amazing. i mean, I can only imagine the incredible amount of work that's gone into reach where you are today, where you can just name so many brands who have adopted your solution. And I hopefully that's very encouraging note to our two other new kids on the block who who are much younger as startups and and are developing their solutions. Thank you so much, Matthias. for, yeah, again, just opening our eyes ah to some of the invisible chemistries and textiles. I know there's so much more we could talk about, but truly amazing work in eliminating these harmful chemicals from our clothing.
00:45:53
Speaker
Okay, so we so far have our waterless dyed fabric, which is waterproof and water repellent now, as well as moisture wicking, all sounding perfect. These are rolls of fabric that are ready now. And I think we can think about putting this together into a jacket. which requires us to cut it up and sew all the different pieces of fabrics together to construct our jackets. So this is where we bring you in, Jean-Francois. And to be honest, I never thought about sewing thread being a big challenge in our industry. It's such a harmless thing, right? It's just a thread. I mean, um how bad can it be?
00:46:31
Speaker
Jean-Francois, tell us how that innocent looking thread is creating a massive headache um for the fashion industry. So actually I will start with a number and a percentage. This percentage is like 78% of the garments are multi-materials. So it means that they are either having one of their components ah that is a different material than the main fabric. As example, a t-shirt with a logo or a label, a denim with a zipper, or our jacket with several layers.
00:47:09
Speaker
All of them, they have one common thing, which is kind of the screw that is screwing the different components together, which is the stitching thread. And this thread, if we're able to remove it at the end of life, then we are able to go back to all separate components that are composing the garment.
00:47:29
Speaker
That's the genesis of the idea, which was, yeah, what if we can unscrew a garment? this um yeah This actually is also um the reason why only 1% to 2% of the garments, they are transformed into new garments through recycling routes today because actually those garments, they are really difficult to disassemble and they are also having a different so yeah color mixed together, different fabrics um mixed together and all of that assembled by the stitching thread. So it's kind of solving a big problem that can be a garment with different components stitched together to a single fragmented problem ah that will be this ah separated piece of a fabric um that you can put to the right recycling path.
00:48:23
Speaker
Right. So then tell us a bit more about your solution, which is Smart Stitch and Smart Disassembly. There are two solutions here. So why don't you start with Smart Stitch and tell us how that is solving this problem? Yeah, so Smart Stitch, so it's Resortex patented stitching thread and they are used in the manufacturing manufacturing stage ah when you produce a garment.
00:48:47
Speaker
And this thread has kind of a particularity, ah which is um that it can melt at a lower temperature than the different materials that are around it. So thanks to that,
00:48:59
Speaker
specific melting point, we are able to design machineries ah that are kind of big ovens that are called smart disassembly.
00:49:11
Speaker
And we are able to disassemble the garments that were stitched with smart stitch. and with those machineries and separate automatically the different components composing the garments. Today, we have a capacity of 500 kilos per day to disassemble.
00:49:29
Speaker
ah But in the coming years, we are looking into placing the first disassembly line ah with a continuous process and automatic process from disassembling to sorting the different pieces of fabric.
00:49:45
Speaker
disassembled with a capacity of 10 tons a day and that would be placed in the Benelux or France region. Wow. um Again, great to hear that you're actually able to scale this up. So what you're saying is your sewing thread, it melts when it's high temperature. I've watched the videos online, by the way, and it's it's quite addictive and just to see all of them melt
Reverse Logistics in Textile Recycling
00:50:06
Speaker
away. It's really fun. But can you tell us what the thread is made of or is that secret sauce?
00:50:13
Speaker
Technically and in detail, I cannot tell you, but we have different melting points depending on the business area we are working on, on the textile industry.
00:50:23
Speaker
and So we have the first one, which is our best seller, which is the 190 degree. This one is bio sourced. And thanks to ah to this one, we are able to go into industrial laundry, drying and washing. We can iron, we can turn or dry, and like use it as your normal garments. Then for materials that are a bit more sensitive for products that are not really requiring ironing, we can use another thread which is melting at 170 degrees Celsius. And then the last one, which is our lower melting point thread, it's 150 degrees Celsius that we are mostly using for mattress covers or guardsets because that those are materials that are most of the time more sensitivity to higher temperatures.
00:51:19
Speaker
And I was also curious, when these ah threads melt, is there anything toxic, any residue, fumes that are also coming out? So we have a residue because it's melting, it's not evaporating. So we can say that ah we avoid having fumes by having those residue ah because everything transforms. It's like the basic, it's not evaporating as magic, it's...
00:51:42
Speaker
It's transforming into something. And what we decided was ah that it would transform into a residue on the fabric, thanks to design of the product. So we are able to kind of tailor-made where the thread is melting to avoid having it melting on the fabric that we want to recycle, but more melting, as example, on the trims that are blocking recycling. So actually, it's the process is chemical free and it's only using heat, a heat that then is ah in a closed loop system. So that's not so your kitchen oven. It's really a dedicated machine that is also oxygen free to avoid oxidation of the different materials that could be sensitive to this.
00:52:25
Speaker
ah So we are not using actually anything that could harm environment by doing the disassembly. Amazing. So smart stitch is used during the cut and sew stage of the garment by the manufacturers. And smart disassembly is used by the sorter recycler group. Two very, very different groups of people who don't really interact with each other at all. So how are you building a case for recyclers to buy this machine when the volumes of garments that you smart stitch may be not as as huge for them to have a dedicated machine for this?
00:53:03
Speaker
Yeah, we know that it's a big risk to take to invest in a machine that is able to disassemble 10 tons a day automatically and kind of building a plant or a separate plant ah in your factory. And that's why we are taking this risk because for the first line at least, ah we are financing it to have a consortium approach, which is ah at the moment that we unlock the capacity for the next 10 years of this line, we will place one in the region where this capacity was unlocked. And that is the kind of the more we are, the ah the better we can unlock circularity and ah It's not because a brand is having, ah as example, 400 products per year ah that we could disassemble, that they are not welcome to participate in this, as we call it, smart disassembly hubs.
00:54:00
Speaker
We have really a holistic and geographic ah local vision, which is ah having nine lines of 10 tons a day across the world in the...
00:54:14
Speaker
Yeah, 20, 35 year for us to be ah also optimizing the different logistics with the different partners that we could have in automotive, mattress, fashion, workwear businesses.
00:54:30
Speaker
If we take our reference jacket again, again, it's got multiple layers, different types of fabrics. It's got ah zippers, hardware. um Can you help us visualize what happens and how that gets separated and sorted in your machine? Yeah. So what I can tell you is that today, even if...
00:54:48
Speaker
we put all the different innovation that we discussed in this ah podcast. The jacket would not be recyclable. It would be better as manufacturing impact and that would be no discussion needed. But at the end of life, it would still be a mess for any recycler that would start to want to recycle it. Today, this jacket ah is...
00:55:12
Speaker
most of the time going into incineration or landfills because no one can or has the business case strong enough to disassemble it and recycle it. What we do is then upgrade simply by only putting these threads at the ah beginning of the life.
00:55:31
Speaker
the the jacket disassembly possibilities. And that also during the life of the jacket, because if it is melting, it's not only for the end of life, it can also help on delabeling. As example, this jacket was ah ah produced bigger quantity than what was sold. It can help in um repairs with faster disassembly because it's really time consuming.
00:55:57
Speaker
And it can as well help at the end of life for the recyclers. And this actually would be that in the jacket that we would create together, we would put it at the end of life in the smart disassembly machine.
00:56:12
Speaker
And we would sort the different materials via the existing technologies, such as near infrared sorting. to sort into its composition. We would use other cameras to detect was it a woven or a knitted fabric. And we would at the end send sort with a color camera the different color that are in this jacket.
00:56:38
Speaker
And at the end, we would have instead of one jacket output to send to one recycler, we would have maybe 20 different pieces that we could send to two or three different recyclers.
00:56:51
Speaker
And that's what's made the the beauty of this solution is that we don't rely on the recycler anymore. And we don't rely on the recycler that is putting all the efforts on recycling everything while they should be, and they are, focused on only one technique that is really optimized to get one output.
00:57:11
Speaker
ah Thank you for highlighting that that. Recyclers, when we think they can just handle everything, you just throw it out to them and they'll deal with it. But they're all specializing in different types of fibers and um they want different feedstock. um And so you're you're helping them get what they really need so that they can get really good quality output that can come back into the textile industry.
Garment Construction Innovations
00:57:32
Speaker
um So your thread sounds like a really easy switch for a garment manufacturer to make. But what has been the pushback or barriers that you faced from garment manufacturers in adopting this smart stitch thread?
00:57:45
Speaker
Yes. So actually, what we have as barriers, it's more um economic and strategic strategic barriers. If I start by the economic one, it's because the cost of the different products, even for making them, reduced drastically in the last 20 years.
00:58:05
Speaker
um And the average product costs ah today to to make one and that is sold in Europe is less than $5. these products For less than $5, actually, you cannot put any, let's say, sustainable and socially fair working conditions into this price because it is so cheap that it's kind of killing the business case from the beginning on.
00:58:32
Speaker
with a competition that should even not exist or that should be kind of regulated. And that's where we arrive to the price pressure that it's having in this industry, because now the ones that are having and that are the decision maker, and I think so as example, You and Matthias can relate on that. It's that it's it's not the sustainable department that is having the last words. It's the supplying department that is having the last words. And most of the time, those two have different objectives and KPIs to perform at the end of the year. And that's what makes it
00:59:10
Speaker
Hard for most of those innovations to be widely implemented. It's because only a 1% or 2% in average increase on garment manufacturing cost makes it a very hard negotiation with a brand. While it could unlock much more return on investment at the end of life, but it's something that is for them too far because we arrived to the strategic ah edge because the regulation is not clear and they don't really know that at the end of life, what they invested in today will give them benefits. And that's that's also a little bit what is um frustrating at the moment. It's the unclarity about the different regulation that will
00:59:55
Speaker
be put in place or not. And that's what ah then is making end of this industry slower to move to sustainable innovation.
01:00:06
Speaker
The economical and the legislative aspects, that's what we see. So how are you working with the brands? Because are the brands collecting the garments for disassembly or is this out in the wild with consumers and you're hoping that they'll return it and it'll end up in a smart disassembly oven at some point?
01:00:28
Speaker
ah Because it's really dependent on behavior change, isn't it, from the consumer. Once you've sold it, you can't really control what happens to it. So how are you managing that? For us, the what we are thinking and what we are building is a way to have things made easy, which is for the consumer, the only change that we would like them to do is to purchase garments that are higher hands, that are better made, and that are with more traceable and transparent they say claims in their labels.
01:01:04
Speaker
So the the first consumer behavior that we would like is for people to take care about their clothing as if they were buying a furniture. Furniture, you can keep it ah because it's your style. You can keep it for years. It's not moving. it's And it's perfect. You repair it when it's broken. You give it at the end.
01:01:24
Speaker
ah to the right point of collection when it's no longer usable or repairable. And that's the only thing that we ask the customer. The rest, we work with the businesses, which are collectors, sorters, for the workwear, the laundries, for the mattresses. We work with the different returning process that, ah as example,
01:01:48
Speaker
this industry is really here is really a good case because we work closely with brands there. As example, there is ah the mattress covers that are on trial for like 100 nights and then you can give it back.
01:02:02
Speaker
ah That represents approximately 10% of the sales of mattress per year. What they do, because yeah, someone slept in it for 100 days and I guess you don't want to sleep in the same bed than someone, they are changing the cover, which is the most sustainable way of doing it. They keep the springs, they keep the foam, they just change the cover that is around it. And this cover, as it is a multi-layer, it has a metallic zipper or a plastic zipper.
01:02:31
Speaker
It has many components in it. nearly all of them, they are incinerated because with ah energy valorization because no one can do anything about it.
01:02:43
Speaker
We are working, as example, with Becarre Deslie, that is one of the biggest producers of mattress covers. And yeah, the solution provided by by Resultex, it's only to taking care of this 10%, and we already have an narrow ROI in less than 100 days, and you still have your same operations.
01:03:03
Speaker
because the brand keeps the mattress back when it's shipped to to them. So there we are working more
Collaborative Efforts in Sustainability
01:03:12
Speaker
into consortiums as well and more into reverse logistics and so on ah with different partners regionally or nationally to smoothen operations because at the end, that's how we are able to to to get the volumes to be disassembled.
01:03:34
Speaker
um and That reverse logistics, that's a really interesting area, isn't it Because so much of all kinds of products, fashion and other sectors get back what has been sold because it wasn't the right size or whatever. People return things in huge volumes now. So that's a really interesting space for you to be working in. Are you able to share names of any sports brands or other brands who have been using your solutions? Yeah, actually, yeah we had a very big collection with Decathlon in the last years, mostly into swimwear and ski jacket. But also the last one, and that we are very proud of it because we won an award at the SPO.
01:04:14
Speaker
It was with the peak performance, also a consortium project with NetPlus, with also other companies to make the most sustainable down jackets that could exist today.
01:04:29
Speaker
And in the work where we are also working, we signed a multi-year agreement ah with Sihun, the Belgian leader of workwear. So actually we are quite versatile because as you see, I named only one brand out of each business area that we are working in, but everything that is stitched at the end can be disassembled.
01:04:52
Speaker
So that's what we are looking for. Fascinating, Jean-Francois. And thank you for bringing our attention to the mundane sewing thread and really highlighting how important it is for us to rethink this material. So this is exciting. We have our imaginary jacket now that is made from bio-based materials, dyed and finished without toxic and forever chemicals. And we've constructed our jacket with threads that melt away and make it easy to sort and recycle. I mean,
01:05:17
Speaker
I love it. It's the perfect jacket, right? And I do hope there is a brand listening in and thinking, oh, I want to make that jacket with all of these solutions. And I'm sure our listeners will agree that this is a running jacket we'll all want to buy as well. So if there is anyone out there who can make this jacket, let me know.
01:05:34
Speaker
So how far away are we realistically from making a jacket that layers all these cleaner solutions together at a price point that works for a mainstream brand? Jin, what are your thoughts? How far away are we from seeing this jacket? My opinion on this would be that not too far actually and that it should be possible to do this especially with brands which would have their own flagship stores. it do you know If they can sell it directly at their flagship store, it means that there's more margin um that can be spent on those new material and process innovations. Obviously, it becomes another story if you have to take into account the margin of the retailers.
01:06:17
Speaker
So i think that's my take. Matthias, how do you feel? I'd love to support this, but but especially looking at the last couple of years, my personal experience is that everything seems to circle back to cost. And i mean, i'm I'm a strong believer in bringing these better solutions to market. I mean, that's why we exist. That's why we are here. But I think we also need to face reality. i think lately it may has become harder than maybe a couple of years ago. i I think there's a few years back when the market was more acceptant to maybe look into this. And I'm talking now mainstream brands, right? I'm not talking, you know, there will always be smaller upcoming brands. That's why I see multiple opportunities for taking on these new ideas, these new solutions, putting them together, you know launch something and be successful. I strongly believe that that's going to happen. But I'm talking now about the big names, the big brands. And I think this is where we also ah probably maybe ah a whole other call, I would say,
01:07:30
Speaker
is How is the cost calculated in our supply chain? You know, where do the multiples come in? Where do people try to make margins? Are we talking about real cost or are we talking about added cost, right? Can we have something like that for these sustainable solutions? Only the real cost get actually figured into or put into a total cost of product. I give you an example maybe to to make this clear, right? If let's say our finish would add one cent to a garment, right? I think, show me the consumer that wouldn't buy a better garment if you would have to say, well, would you be willing to pay a cent more, right? You know, and and here's the benefit you get. It's a no-brainer, right? It's just like,
01:08:18
Speaker
course but you know there's there's ways in our industry where one cent can become a dollar right and that's something we also need to be able to tackle if we want to fast forward these new uh technologies right that you know Not because it's more sustainable, it's green in quotation mark, it's developed specifically, already comes with a price tag to say, oh, great, you know let's let's increase margin. And that inflates the final price to a point where mainstream will not gonna launch the product. I think that cost is a great point. And I do feel I ah want to do an episode just to focus on that. So I'll try and find a guest who can kind of unwrap that for us. Jean-Francois, what are your thoughts? How far away are we from making a jacket like this today?
01:09:11
Speaker
Actually making it, I think there's no problem. We can. Selling it, there is no problem. I think we can as well. For the price and for the mainstream, it depends which brand you are taking as mainstream. If we are targeting Shane or Temu brands, well, you can forget it. And that in the near future, even in the long-term future.
01:09:32
Speaker
If you are about brands that are maybe more high-end, but wear garments at the end, you don't have to change them every year, even less. Yeah, then that is more realistic. But it's right that what Matthias was saying, when we are selling, we are selling to the ones that aren't selling to brands. And those are selling even to different intermediaries in between.
01:09:58
Speaker
And all of them, they are taking their margins, which is normal, but it can reach an extent that is so overwhelming for small prices of change that the first one that has to that has to buy our solution has to do.
01:10:14
Speaker
At the end, it's it's crazy. And it represents margins that are too important, let's say, for one garment to be sold in in Europe mostly. So I'd like all of you to just imagine that you're sitting in a product design meeting with a brand brave enough to try and do this. And you're sort of building this reference jacket that we have, you know, a better version of it. And you're bringing all your solutions together. So you've each described your piece of the puzzle for this jacket. What happens when you start to try and put these pieces together? Where would it be easy to collaborate? eight
01:10:47
Speaker
And Matthias and Jun, you know, you've clearly shown that there are easy and quite obvious ways to collaborate. And where does it get complicated? Jun, do you want to start? I think the good thing is basically, you know, if we speak about this exact kind of like, you know, three three approaches that we've covered in this conversation, definitely no overlap, meaning that it's very technologically feasible to collaborate, right? like um And I think probably what's missing in terms of expertise in in terms of making this feasible is you know more expertise from the perspective of the company, which would turn those two-dimensional, one-dimensional solutions into something that is you know the three-dimensional product, which is the garment. obviously, you will always need you know the participation of the brand side, which will have understanding of how to also turn this combination of different technology into a product and story that is coherent and that resonates to the end user. So
01:11:48
Speaker
Again, I think just just reflect like on the technological side. It may take time, but because of the maturity of each of the technology, i don't have too much worry on the technological difficulty side of things, other than you know the government building aspect, which obviously is outside probably of our domain.
01:12:10
Speaker
Anything else to add, Jean-Francois? Yeah, I would say it's it's the the designer part, the the education that that we have to do as or the message that we have to relate should be dedicated dedicated to those designers because they are the one making the day-to-day choices and making the day-to-day inventions they are designing for their brands.
01:12:36
Speaker
That's where I think it can be the fast moving change. It's when there is a general agreement on that current design is not sustainable, but solution exists to make current design more sustainable.
01:12:53
Speaker
And that are actually no brainer as well. It's ah okay. You are the one designing. So you are the one that ah should have the responsibility on trying to change things. Absolutely. i know we have quite a few designers who listen to this podcast. So hopefully they're sitting up and listening and taking notes here. Matthias, anything you'd like to add? I mean, that's a fun room that you have been picturing, right? There's a lot more great solutions possible right away if we only want to.
01:13:25
Speaker
So it's it's not about that it would be so hard putting them together. It's not about finding people that would be excited, putting them together. That that room, I've been in many of those rooms and they they are real, right? And it's there's a fantastic group of people you get to know that really love to put these best technologies and solutions together and and they can. At the end, then it's a business call again. But, you know, that that room, that that is great, right? and And... I honestly believe that you could do a lot more right now. You don't have to wait on a lot new stuff to come out.
01:14:08
Speaker
Make smart choices on, you know, when it comes to fabric, dye, finish and assembly. And we can make big steps forward right now. We we don't have to wait.
01:14:19
Speaker
But it needs these kind of collaborations, right? I think the biggest trap people can fall into to wait for that one person to show up and say, this is how you need to do it, right? Here's that one single thing that will make it all great. You know, we we need all these different innovators and and and solution providers. And then we need that excitement from a brand to bring those and work together.
01:14:45
Speaker
And the magic happens and it and it can happen now. Love that. Very encouraging note. What is a conversation the fashion and textile industry desperately needs to have, but it isn't?
01:14:56
Speaker
Matthias, I'll start with you. Cost. Cost in a sense that if we expect we can buy t-shirts for two pounds and those will be produced in the right way with good fabrics and good dyes and good chemistries and will last for a long time to lower them.
01:15:19
Speaker
That's kidding yourself, right? So I think um the industry needs to become honest that there is a certain cost to more sustainable garments. but also a more sustainable industry. And in the end, I mean, I don't have the number, you know, I would not be surprised that at the end it may even save us cost, right? You know, we don't need to clean up deserts with millions of garments piling up there, right? And so on and so on. um And so it's that, I think, honesty. And let's say we love to talk about these things
01:15:57
Speaker
more sustainable solutions and these wonderful ideas. And then the next morning we go into the shop and buy a t-shirt for $2, right? There's a as a certain disconnect. So I think that kind of honesty in in that discussion and and cutting a bit of the marketing fluff when it comes to sustainable textiles, that that's, I think, a worthwhile discussion to have.
01:16:25
Speaker
That was a great point. Absolutely. Jun? I think it's it's it's a really good point. um But also potentially, I think, you know, um expanding from that, it's probably like the the way the the cost is allocated across the value chain, which is something that is quite important to to look at. It's not just like cost, right? like it's It's looking at you know who who is taking X amount of margin and whether thinking, you know, if someone decides to just squeeze a little bit off the margin on one place to make space for a little bit more budget for a novel project. material or a novel process that will make the product more sustainable, then there's a lot of things that are already feasible right now. I think from from my perspective, youre just looking at the reallocation of the budget across the value chain is quite important, but it's also quite difficult to do because the fashion industry is a very fragmented um supply chain and value chain, and there's a lot of non-transparency on who's adding additional dollars here and there.
01:17:33
Speaker
Looking at holistically, not just like each of the manufacturing steps, but holistically, of course, would allow us to find those one or two dollars. That then means that you can add a novel technology into the stack.
01:17:48
Speaker
that That's exactly the point, Jun, right? If you add those one or two dollars at the end to the final selling price and you have that strong argument on why it costs, you know, if you are happy to pay one hundred dollars for your fantastic running jacket, right? A hundred and two won't try you away. Yeah. Yeah.
01:18:06
Speaker
So if those $2 could remain $2 at the end, that would be a massive breakthrough, right? Right now, your $2 putting in way further back in the value chain may multiply into $30, right? And that, yes, that can be an issue. So it's it's a topic where I haven't found a solution, but I'm very, assume I'm very motivated to to take this one up because I think that that's exactly where the industry goes wrong. And as long as we don't tackle it, we force the supply chain to cut corners, right? And when you force the supply chain to cut corners, things happen that you don't want to happen.
01:18:49
Speaker
Jean-Francois, you wanted to add something? Yeah, maybe on the health part, and because it's right that this big discussion also I would like to open is on the liability of the health.
01:19:02
Speaker
That garments that are put in the market are yeah sometimes ah with like 500 times more than the regulated chemicals ah or they are like totally destroying because you are wearing them every day.
Personal Journeys of Textile Innovators
01:19:18
Speaker
Like you are surrounded by textile every day. You you sleep in bed sheets. You are wearing clothing the day. You are in your car with textile. Textiles, they are everywhere and they are most of the time contact.
01:19:30
Speaker
ah with porous skin. And today i have really trouble knowing that there is kind of no one else than those beautiful NGOs or associations that are making tests and trials and that are kind of saying that, okay, out loud, this is not okay.
01:19:48
Speaker
And I don't know if it's if it should go like ah to the pharmaceutical business with the the state being responsible if there is, i don't know, a problem with the medicine. But I think there is something here that would also make brands more conscious of what they put in it, because most of the brands, they don't even know what are the chemicals that are the garments that they are selling.
01:20:13
Speaker
And they are only knowing it when they are doing trials after having selling them. I think something that also we should look at to have something that is more sustainable because something that is better for your health will in any case be better for the environment.
01:20:29
Speaker
I think you mentioned earlier about education. i mean, I studied textile design. i had no understanding about textile chemistry and so much of textiles is the chemistry side of it. So I wish I went to school with you, Matthias, instead. Now, when I look back, um I would have i learned a lot more about what really goes on with textiles. So thank you. That was such an interesting conversation. And you've all been wearing your professional hats very well and giving me great answers.
01:20:57
Speaker
I'd love to just take a little bit more time for you to just give me some quick answers to get to know you a little personally as well. You're not just your work. I'd love it if um each of you could just tell me where you're from, where you grew up, what you were like as a teenage boy growing up. Jun, let's start with you.
01:21:13
Speaker
So I grew up in the in the south of Japan um in a big city called Osaka. So I'm originally from the other side the sea. But i also spent a few years in my childhood in the south of France. very nice, beautiful, and a lot of nature. And spent a lot of time like in my university days in the north of Japan, which is also surrounded by beautiful nature. So I did obviously spend a lot of time you know doing things in nature, cycling, running, swimming.
01:21:47
Speaker
And that was kind of like, yes, the primary reason why I was always interested in in doing things that are also close to nature. one of the reasons why I've always been being interested in chemistry is like those fancy, you know chemical reaction where you see current engines and then stuff sometimes, you know, are exploding. I mean, it's slow small, small explosion, not like... So was always fascinated from that kind of you know, chemistry being the language of of those reactions.
01:22:14
Speaker
And it just prompted me to to yeah to go more into the material science direction. So basically, I think, you know, a lot of the thing that I'm doing as a company is also quite related to what I also quite like day to day. So it's it's also fun because i can I can be the user of my product.
01:22:31
Speaker
Brilliant. Matthias? Gosh, um I grew up in um in a very small village in Bavaria. Not a lot to do there. So so it it's the usual, I guess, at a time, you know, you you spend your time playing with with the kids, you know, playing playing football and, you know, and at a time again, you know, i think for me, I was always curious what's out there.
01:22:59
Speaker
you know and you know At that time, you know I think a big travel for me was to get to the big city, which was like half an hour by car. right That was a big travel. so so But I knew there must be something bigger out there out somewhere.
01:23:16
Speaker
and And, okay, that was like in the 70s, early 80s, right? So prior internet, prior mobile, um so maybe different time. But it it was that curiosity that kind of brought me into the the textile industry.
01:23:33
Speaker
I had no idea about textile chemistry. Hune, I would love if could say the same that you did. you know i stumbled into textile chemistry kind of by accident, but it was the curiosity of that textile industry. I thought like, wow, that's maybe an opportunity to discover the world, to travel the world, to meet interesting people and to work on products that we all wear or that we all use and know right so that's let's say from a very traditional Bavarian protected childhood you know that then evolved into that massive global textile world that allows you to travel the world and meet all these great people so I'm i'm i'm very pleased how it turned out wonderful Jean-François? Yeah, it's quite funny your story, Mathias, because I have, well, I'm not as ah having experienced as you, but it's right that I'm coming also from ah from a small village in the north from Paris, also 30 minutes by train from Paris. and
01:24:45
Speaker
And yeah, at the end, I was always passionate about outdoors and being in the nature. i was Now I'm living in Brussels, so it's a bit more complex to enjoy nature. But it's right that, yeah, when I was a younger, indeed, I was spending a lot of time outside and just looking at what invention could nature do. That's what made me go into the design and into the engineering world because I was like, Yeah.
01:25:16
Speaker
If there is one better engineer than nature, uh, well, it's only nature. So I wanted to kind of apply my engineering skills to help protect that. Uh,
01:25:31
Speaker
I arrived also in the textile industry by accident. And I was also really curious about this essential um industry that we are indeed all wearing and that is even hidden in places that before I was not even realizing.
01:25:48
Speaker
It's everywhere. And that's what I like about it is that there is huge impact that you can reduce by working in this industry. And you're right, textiles is everywhere. And I believe textiles is really powerful. It's not just functional, it fulfills our senses and our soul, and they play a far bigger role in our lives than we give it credit. um So is there a garment or a piece of cloth that you've held on to for a long time, something that you can't quite let go of, something that has deep personal meaning and value? Could you tell me a story about a piece of textiles?
01:26:26
Speaker
Matthias. Probably like for many ah denim. yeah Yeah. I can't even tell you why, but it's that one pair of denim I just can't throw away. Absolutely, yeah. It's it's worn in, it fits, um and I'll wear until it really, truly falls apart. And shouldn't it be like that, right? if If all our garments would be like that special garment that every one of us has, um fantastic, right? So yeah, that that that that's it for me, right? It's it's my my own pair of denim. Yeah. But you will always see me. I'll look out for it next time. Jean-François?
01:27:09
Speaker
It's my hiking shoes. Actually, those are like, as I told you, I was ah ah really liking nature. So I really like hiking. And I did the six months like journey backpacking across Europe.
01:27:24
Speaker
And those shoes, they traveled with me. So they have kind of this history of crossing all those countries and, uh, and those thousand kilometers, even if I had to res resolve them, but, uh, like that's why resolved them, I guess, uh, also because they had this history on like, yeah, there were do shoes, you know, that's, uh, I liked having, uh, during this travel and that I like having those memories also going with me with the next ones.
01:27:52
Speaker
So that's, that's my pair of shoes. Lovely. Wonderful. Jun? Yes, that's a good point. like i still have like my training jerseys and then jackets from my university stay when I was... you know training for like cycling and then running and stuff like that. So unfortunately, I think the swimwear, it's a bit difficult to keep them for longer. But I think I still those, which is quite quite nice because um but I don't fit anymore. It's all right, Jin. We all have things we don't fit into, but we still keep them. Yes.
01:28:34
Speaker
That's why for me, it's not the denim. ah Fantastic. ah Last question for us. Actually, the say two questions. Quick one. Founder burnout is real. You know, you run a startup, you're working in a startup. It is very stressful. um It starts to impact your decision-making skill. It affects your leadership, the clarity of, you know, running the business. How do you look after your physical and mental health through this journey?
01:29:01
Speaker
Jen? I think that's a really good point. um On my side, I think it's definitely doing some not heavy activity, but like light activity, possibly outdoors, or even like at the gym really helps. I think for me, it's just you know when when you use your brain quite a lot, just balancing it out by doing some exercising, going outside, spending. And especially, I do have a friend who does quite like go cycling or doing stuff outdoors. So just spending time with them is is always nice. If you can spend time in nature, then that's also really nice.
01:29:34
Speaker
um And also what while I realized help is just to make sure like no cutting corners in terms of like sleeping hours. So I always try and sleep like eight hours. That's kind of why I'm not going to short. Yeah, excellent.
01:29:49
Speaker
That's a great point. Matthias? Not so much different to what Jun described, really. Maybe over time, for me, one thing, I try to really specifically, I'm traveling quite a lot, as you can imagine, right? You you may you can fall into the trap that's like,
01:30:06
Speaker
you You just, it's it's like in a hamster wheel, right? You just spin that wheel. And I force myself to live more in the presence. when When I'm overseas, when I'm traveling these countries, I do take hours specifically for myself and make myself aware of, hey, not.
01:30:25
Speaker
I'm in this great place or in this interesting place or in this crazy place, whatever. Have that moment, have be be in the presence, right? But that's in addition to what Jun said. I think Jun is, you have to take care of yourself. If you don't, it's a problem when you when you are founding a company.
01:30:46
Speaker
Yeah. And then being in the present is so important as well, because you're always thinking next step, isn't it, with startup? There's always fires to put out. And what's the 10-year plan? What's the five-year plan? What's the next investor that we need to get on board? But just really ground yourself and be present in the moment. um Thank you, Matthias. Jean-Francois?
01:31:04
Speaker
Actually for me, I think it's quite simple. It's really just having a moment that is really cutting the professional and private life, which is have the luck of going cycling to to work.
01:31:17
Speaker
And this moment for me is really the best transition period. but It's really something that even if I go late ah at home or if I go late at work, which can happen as well, it's really cutting the moment.
01:31:31
Speaker
in private and company. And that that's for me is really also having kind of the the good effects. Nice. Absolutely. To draw that line. I really struggled to do that. There's always an email that you need to get to, but I'm trying to do better. Thank you for sharing that so honestly um with us. And it's so valuable for everyone to understand that as well. Last question.
01:31:56
Speaker
So you've each been working on problems that the industry has largely ignored for decades and you're asking brands to change habits and reformulate products and make decisions today that only pay off sometimes years down the line. There must be moments where that resistance feels overwhelming.
01:32:14
Speaker
um What is it that keeps you going? And do you ever doubt that the industry will ever actually change and transform and be where we want it to be? Jean-Francois.
01:32:26
Speaker
Well, I think for a company that started in 2017, we are quite tough on being still here in this ah industry. And because we believe we have the right answer to the right problem.
01:32:41
Speaker
Actually, that's what keeps us there. It's really because we believe on the problem that we are solving. Which is something that is important because sometimes you are creating a problem just to solve it.
01:32:55
Speaker
It's not always a a good solution to to keep you running. But if the problem exists and there is no other solution that can provide it than yours, then you continue until until you you you find the right partners to apply this solution.
01:33:12
Speaker
Jun? Yes, I think that's that's so that's a super good point. I think one thing that also helped is I was in academia before like starting the company, so I spent a lot of time. mean, it's a different type of problem. We tend to work on stuff that no one has done previously. so in in that sense, you know, those academia years has kind prepared me mentally.
01:33:37
Speaker
In a way, yes, it is difficult. But the the way I just kind of think about this is if it's difficult for us, and still, if we manage to do it, it's going to be difficult for anyone else.
01:33:49
Speaker
Meaning that if you have managed to do something that is difficult, and that is difficult for everyone else, then you are miles ahead of your competition. Something being difficult is not a problem.
01:33:59
Speaker
um it's signal achieving it means that you would be one of the few who have kind of like gone through that difficult path. So this is kind of like my positive take on whenever something you know challenging happens or something unusual happens. I just kind of tell myself, yeah, okay.
01:34:17
Speaker
unexpected, difficult, or challenge. But if we manage to solve then that's a huge differentiator compared to a competitor, or it's kind of like another reason why we would survive when some unexpected happens if we manage to solve it. So that's my yeah positive take on it. Obviously, like no one wants to be handed a problem that was unexpected, but at least and you can always decide how you look at that problem.
01:34:45
Speaker
That's a great mindset to have and an important one to have if you're running a company. Matthias, how do you find the energy to keep going? You've been around 18, 20 years now. And when that when that wall hits you, and when that doubt hits you, what do you do?
01:35:05
Speaker
it's It's not difficult, really. i I still love the industry. I still love the industry. i still appreciate all the great people that I have met over 18 years. There's so many wonderful people.
01:35:20
Speaker
and And despite all the negative things I partly commented upon over the last couple of hours, I love what I'm doing. i love the industry. i love the people. And I do love that we as individuals, teams, founders can truly make a difference here.
01:35:38
Speaker
You know, it's one of these industries where you can make a difference. And isn't that great? So, you know, that was the easiest question.
Eco-Friendly Jacket Design Challenges
01:35:47
Speaker
I
01:35:51
Speaker
it's i love what I'm doing. What a great, great note to end the conversation in. i mean, all your answers. Solving the right problem with the right solution, really important. um Having the mindset to keep going even when times are difficult and being optimistic. And a love for the industry and the people believing that, of course, we can we can make this happen. What an incredible positive note. Thank you so much. I really, really appreciate all that you've shared with us. So insightful, eye-opening and excited to see this. I know it's imaginary, this jacket, but I'm really excited about it and how all the pieces are coming together through the solution that you have each dedicated your life to develop for our industry. So thank you again, jun emmateteus and Matthias and Jean-Francois. Thank you so much.
01:36:41
Speaker
Another incredible conversation. Spending time with Jun, Jean-Francois and Matthias, you really feel the courage and persistence it takes to rewrite the chemistry of performance wear from the inside out. They're not just solving an environmental problem anymore.
01:36:59
Speaker
It's a health problem too. And there's a sharp irony in the fact that the very jacket we put on to go for a run and take care of our bodies could be quietly undermining our health at the same time.
01:37:11
Speaker
In this episode, we went one layer deeper and rebuilt our toxic-free jacket. We learned how Amphicolor can add color at the yarn stage and save huge amounts of water and energy from the dyeing process, how Amphitex delivers waterproof, breathable performance without PFAS, and how Beyond Surface Technologies' green chemistry finishes can replace the invisible petroleum-based coatings that make our jacket. Moisture wicking, fast drying, and water repellent.
01:37:41
Speaker
We also discovered that even the tiniest detail, the sewing thread, can decide whether this jacket is recyclable at all. i mean, this one really surprised me. And how smart stitch and smart disassembly from Resort Tech can break up a stubborn, multi-layered, multi-material jacket into its various different parts and components, ensuring each material can be successfully recycled.
01:38:07
Speaker
The more we piece this imaginary jacket together, the more I find it hard to believe that this jacket does not exist in the market yet. The technologies we need are all here. But the key point our guests highlighted was that the real challenge in the industry is costing.
01:38:22
Speaker
This seems to be a murky, muddy area that need a total transformation for this running jacket to come to life and make the impact these solutions can truly achieve at scale.
Next Episode Teaser and Engagement
01:38:33
Speaker
While we wait for the costing to get sorted out, our imaginary jacket is now ready for use. In part three of Clean Run, we follow this jacket into the next chapter of its life. We find out how we can care for it through washing and repair and what it really takes to design a closed loop system that can turn this very jacket back into fibers for the next one, completing the full life cycle of our running jacket.
01:38:57
Speaker
So hit subscribe so you don't miss the final episode of this series. Clean Run is a companion series to the Performance Without Toxicity exhibition that is open until 26th of June, 2026 at Fabrica X in London.
01:39:11
Speaker
I've popped a link in the show notes for you to find more details. Do visit the exhibition if you get a chance. It's a free exhibition. Genuinely, it's worth your time. You will walk away full of ideas and inspiration. As organizers of the exhibition, here's a quick word from Amy Tsang, head of Europe at Mills Fabrica, and Yumi Ito from Goldwyn, the leading Japanese outdoor and performance wear brand, sharing their thoughts on why this was an important and timely collaboration.
01:39:40
Speaker
I'm Amy Tsang, Head of Europe at The Mills Fabrica. We're a global innovation platform dedicated to supporting innovations across the textile and agri-food industries.
01:39:50
Speaker
We have an investment fund, co-working spaces in London and Hong Kong, an innovation gallery and concept store called Fabrica X, where we host exhibitions. And finally, we build strategic partnerships to accelerate sustainability across industries.
01:40:06
Speaker
Our latest exhibition in London, titled Performance Without Toxicity, is exploring a new paradigm for performance wear. One where technical excellence no longer comes at the expense of people or the planet.
01:40:19
Speaker
Today, Performancewear relies heavily on synthetic fibers and chemical treatments to deliver stretch, moisture management, durability, and weather resistance. But these solutions often come with considerable environmental trade-offs.
01:40:34
Speaker
Through this carefully curated exhibition, we're showcasing 37 companies that are advancing a clean, circular, and regenerative path forward for the industry from all around the world. spanning early stage startups to commercialize innovations and global brands.
01:40:51
Speaker
The creation has been supported by Goldwyn, our lead innovation partner, a Japanese performance brand that integrates research, design and investment to advance the future of apparel and material systems.
01:41:03
Speaker
Performance without toxicity is guided by four key narratives. Reimagining materials, performance without petrochemicals, greener chemistries, beyond durability, designing for circularity and longevity, and finally, future footwear.
01:41:19
Speaker
For anyone curious about web performance where performance wear is heading and looking to discover some of the solutions that are making active wear better for the sake of our planet, then this is the exhibition for you.
01:41:31
Speaker
My name is Yumi Ito. I worked at Goldwin Inc. and I am also a part of Goldwin Players Fund, Goldwin's corporate venture capital arm. Goldwin is a performance and lifestyle approach company. It was funded in 1951 as a knitting factory in Japan and soon after shifted its forecast toward a ah sports apparel. Our origins lies in skiing, designing garments for snow, cold and extreme conditions.
01:42:04
Speaker
Over decades, we have built deep expertise in product development, working not only our original brand, but also operating and developing leading outdoor and outsports brands in Japan, including the North Face, Harry Hansen, and some of them we are holding their trademarks domestically in Japan and developing products through our own design and R&D capabilities. with a unique regional strategy. This experience has shaped our identity.
01:42:40
Speaker
As a company rooted in sports and outdoor fields, we believe our true field is planet itself. For us, so Reducing environmental impact so is not an ad project, it's inseparable from our responsibility as a company that designs for life in nature.
01:43:02
Speaker
So we support startups and technologies that can help transform the Apple industry towards a more circular, regenerative and responsible future. The theme of this exhibition felt like a very natural fit for us as a company, which is why we were excited to to be part of it. We've always loved how the Mills Fabrica supports innovators through exhibitions like this. It's something we've admired for a long time, and in many ways it reflects what we also hope to do through our own activities. So we are truly happy to have had the opportunity to collaborate on this project. It also connects directly to one of our company's visions to harness boundless imagination and employ innovative approaches aimed at fostering a healthier planet.
01:44:00
Speaker
Collaboration with MesoFabrica is another way of supporting and bringing that idea to life. At Goldwyn, our approach is to making product is closely connected to improving the global environment. we see our product is not only as items people use, but also as a way to better understand the planet. Almost like a medium that helps spark dialogue about our relationship with nature.
01:44:31
Speaker
Rather than focusing on prototyping alone, we place a strong emphasis on turning new materials and technology into real products, that we can actually deliver to customers.
01:44:45
Speaker
In this exhibition, you can see several tangible examples of that, including product developed in collaboration with our corporate VC's portfolio companies, such as Synflex, Bioworks, and SolarCore or Spiver, that has always already reached the market.
01:45:05
Speaker
Of course, developing new materials or technologies takes time, But ah we believe it's important to introduce these innovations to a wider audience through exhibitions like this. By sharing these efforts publicly, we can also communicate with the communicate that that direction Goldwyn is aiming for.
01:45:26
Speaker
At the same time, we recognize that we are not company with the scale to transform an entire industry on our own. That's why supporting communities like this, collaborating with other companies and creating opportunities for dialogue are so important to us.
01:45:44
Speaker
Through these kinds of collaborations, we hope innovative materials and technologies can gradually find their way into real world application.
01:45:56
Speaker
As Yumi mentions, reducing the environmental impact of their product is not just a side project for them. It's inseparable from their responsibility as an outdoor wear company. And I wish more companies, not just performance wear, but all companies would really start thinking like them. She highlights the importance of the need for dialogue. And this exhibition really does invite people into a conversation and encourage collaboration.
01:46:22
Speaker
and And really, this is the only way we can transform the landscape of outdoor and performance wear. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and share it with someone who'd find it valuable. And if you'd like to support the podcast, there's a link in the show notes to buy me a coffee. It goes a long way during those late night editing sessions. If you have any questions or feedback, please contact me. All my details are in the show notes below.
01:46:46
Speaker
And I'd love to hear from you. Thank you for joining me today. Until next time, I'm Millie Thurkin reminding you that there's no such thing as ordinary cloth. Every thread tells a story.
01:47:03
Speaker
you