Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
What We Learned This Week: The preseason all leads up to this - Match Day One image

What We Learned This Week: The preseason all leads up to this - Match Day One

Nos Audietis
Avatar
0 Playsin 45 minutes

Niko Moreno and Tim Ostlund-Foss join Jeremiah to put a bow on the preseason. They discuss Cristian Roldan taking the captain’s armband this season, Andrew Thomas being named starting goalkeeper (for at least MD-1) and summarize what they think about the current situation at the number 9 position on the roster. In the second segment Apple TV play-by-play announcer Steve Cangelosi joins Jeremiah to preview match day one’s opponent, the Colorado Rapids. The crew wraps it up with more thoughts about Obed Vargas.

Follow Niko Moreno on BlueSky and YouTube. Follow Tim Ostlund-Foss on BlueSky.

Sponsor

🍷 Full Pull Wines: Love wine but not wine clubs? Check out the boutique wine seller who lets you browse their selections and pick whatever you want. You can join their mailing list here: https://fullpullwines.com/signup.php

***

Nos Audietis is the flagship podcast for Sounder at Heart, which has been primarily listener supported since 2023. You can support us by becoming a paid subscriber, learn more here. You can also watch many of their shows on YouTube.

Aside from becoming a Sounder at Heart subscriber, you can also support the show by using this link to purchase the Sounder at Heart physical magazine, IV or checking out our merch table to buy various shirt designs.

“Diversions” audio provided by Sounder at Heart subscriber Lars; find more of their music here.

Recommended
Transcript

Introduction and Sounders Legacy

00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network. Here we go.
00:00:11
Speaker
Come

Sounders Success and Strategy

00:00:12
Speaker
on. Hey, O'Shaan. Let's The Seattle Sounders have done it. MLS Cup Here comes Ruiz Diaz through the middle to crown it for Seattle.
00:00:25
Speaker
The Sounders rule the region.
00:00:58
Speaker
what was the thought process in terms of who you decided to use and who you didn't? Ever since I wrote a commentary that we didn't take the outcome seriously.

Sponsorship and Hosting Details

00:01:18
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounder supporters.
00:01:32
Speaker
They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
00:01:42
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Nos Adietes on the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network. It is Friday. it is another wonderful winter day in Seattle, and we are back in the Sounder at Heart headquarters in the heart of the International District.
00:01:57
Speaker
It is Friday, like I said, and I am joined by Nico Moreno and Tim Foss for another episode of What We Learned This Week. how are you guys doing? Fantastic.
00:02:07
Speaker
I'm doing good, man. I got finally two cups of coffee, had some nice little breakfast from our friends at the Waimean, and I am feeling pretty good. We just had the pleasure of doing the the presser, I guess, the opening yeah presser that, you know, it's nice, but, you know, it did feel like we had already talked to Brian a whole lot, but still, you know, it's always nice to get it officially in the conference room, you know, make it nice and and pretty.
00:02:35
Speaker
That's right. And before we get started, I just want to shout out Tim. Did a nice episode. The first episode of ah why am I blanking on the name right now? Backpost Runners. Runners.
00:02:47
Speaker
Nice interview about rivalries with G. Willow Wilson and Jeff Reuter. Just want to say people would should listen to it. It's some it really, sound really good. I think we've done good work with the first episode so far. We're cooking up some ideas for future episodes. I know we want to hit world cup. We've got some ideas about uh, fashion in soccer piece.
00:03:13
Speaker
Oh, focused maybe a little bit more on like the fashion happening on the pitch rather than necessarily off pitch stuff. But, uh, Yeah, if people have theme ideas, feel free to kick them my way.
00:03:28
Speaker
Drip on the field. I like that. My son would like that. He's always Dad, you had no drip. He sees my pictures of playing soccer when I was younger. He's Dad, zero

Nostalgia and Fashion Trends

00:03:37
Speaker
drip. no Or whatever. No rib socks. No lines in your hair. No lines in my hair. No grip socks. No rib socks. apparently Why would you rib your socks? don't know. all All this stuff that the kids do or whatever. Yeah, yeah had none of it. that the The best thing was my...
00:03:49
Speaker
Uh, old school predators. Adidas. Were you a black, were you a black boots guy? Uh, red and black. Okay. Yeah. All right. Speaking of black boots, that's good transition. Good job. i don't know if you do that on purpose.

Joao Paulo: Player to Coach

00:04:02
Speaker
you JP, had a nice little farewell video on, uh, Sounders social and, you know, he's, you could tell he wasn't quite ready to step into the coaching ranks. Uh,
00:04:17
Speaker
But it was a good reminder that Jao Paulo, I really do believe embodies like everything the Sounders aspire to be in their brand. Like he is heart, he's skill, he's he is emotion.
00:04:33
Speaker
He has an edge to him. It was just a really good reminder. And it was it was awesome. Like to feel it was a good feel good story. Like this guy still is involved in the organization.
00:04:43
Speaker
He's loyal. He's someone that, you know, if you ask any fan of Botafogo, he's a fan favorite. He's someone that wears his heart on his sleeves. He is never going you know, sugarcoat anything. He's going to tell you exactly what it is that you need to hear. I absolutely have the utmost respect for Joe Pablo. I think he is going to be a phenomenal head coach because he's someone that learns every day, understands that that makes him better player.
00:05:12
Speaker
person, a better soccer player, better coach. He's never, kind um, he's never someone that's complacent with where he's at. So man, I'm excited to just see him grow in that role. What have you heard from him as far as his learning experience during these first, you know, month or so on the job? ah I'm not going to share much because I am planning to do something for us with him and and get get it from his angle and and from his words exactly. But it definitely is something along the lines of there's always that... desire to maybe get on the field more and you need to try to, there's got to be a balance. You cannot be on the ball coaching all the time, right? That's part of it. You have to let, let a little bit of that go. It's okay. Even in a scrimmage or exercise that calls for you being on the ball, but yeah. Just that kind of itch of just being out there. rather Let me show you. Exactly. So you got to separate yourself from that. But again, I just think that he's going to be phenomenal, especially with the younger kids. He loves being someone that could put a grain of salt in a young player's development. So, man, I just feel like he's perfect for the Tacoma defines a...
00:06:22
Speaker
Yeah, it was funny in the video today. lot of footage was him with the ball at his feet. That's right. you can just tell this is a guy who maybe wants little bit. You almost like, he going to go in for tackles in training?
00:06:35
Speaker
But, ah you know, good. i I do think he is He was probably one of my favorite players to watch. Just the way he played. he never got cheated. He seemed like he always came up with the big play. You know, I will always remember the pass that he made that set up Freddie Montero's penalty in Leon, where that was a ah match that Sounders had control of in the first leg. I think they were up three one, but they needed another goal.
00:07:05
Speaker
And he made this unbelievable pass or maybe he or maybe was he the one who actually drew the penalty? I don't know. I just remember he was being, he was very directly involved in the penalty that Freddie Montero ended up converting. And I remember thinking there's not that many guys who would make the play that he made in the moment that he made it. And he just has a million of those.
00:07:26
Speaker
Yeah, my memory doesn't serve me as well as it did one time. But the one that comes to mind for me was that goal where he like takes off from mid home half field. Yeah. Because I didn't know if he had that in his wheelhouse. You know what I mean? Maybe he didn't. That'll be a question that maybe I'll ask him. When you go back to that, where you were like, man, why am I? I'm really here. I'm still even at the ball at my feet. Yeah. So that's the one that comes to mind.
00:07:53
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i think just such a testament to Joao Paulo and the organization that like it's easy to sort of forget or look past, but his signing was such a sort of aspirational, almost feels too strong, but...
00:08:15
Speaker
it marked this moment where the Brazilian market was opening up to MLS teams a little bit more. Yeah. And i think because of the position he played, maybe his signing got overlooked in some areas, big player he very quickly in a position that does not get the kind of recognition, had a real shout for mvp Sure. Like he came in and,
00:08:41
Speaker
changed how the Sounders were able to play and that he the entire time he was a player, he busted his ass every second. And that like, we've seen some very high level players try to transition into coaching and, you know, someone like Thierry Henry,
00:09:02
Speaker
It didn't work out trying to coach an MLS because the type of player he was, the level of gifted he had, it was tough for him to relate to the players when he was like, well, why don't you just do the thing like that? Just did you just need to do this. Like, why aren't you just cro turning and then bending it around the goalkeeper?

Team Building and Scouting

00:09:26
Speaker
You're not going to have that issue with JP because it's all fundamentally built on work hard. Um, I, yeah, I think just a, a, an ideal person to have working in the development pipeline. yeah I'm going to say two things, uh, that I'm going to need to say, I don't want to get in this rabbit hole, but would you just say, remind me of something. First of all, him coming in here was almost like a plan B, right? Because the Gregory thing fell apart with Bahia. and
00:09:57
Speaker
I think that, um I mean, it may be, it's just where, Gregory went where he wasn't, maybe we'll blame dad, but regardless of, I think JP was just meant to play here. And, I think he talks about the scouting. second thing want to say is that he talks about the scouting and he talks about intangibles that the Sounders look, look, I heard some nonsense from somebody and I'm not going to repeat where it came from, but someone apparently said online that the Sounders were the inner Miami of MLS before inner Miami. And I think that that couldn't be farther away from the truth. Yeah.
00:10:27
Speaker
The Sounders have never been a team that's just going to throw money and just get whoever it is because that's what they can do. And you could say their lack of ambition and all this BS that I hear about it. The reality is, is that what's made the Sounders, the phenomenal organization and the successful organization is that they're very careful with how they go about scouting, who they're bringing in what the player is going to provide.
00:10:50
Speaker
than Nicolás Addero. They could have gone, they could have had Almiron and they made the decision between Almiron, I think it was Blanco and Nico. And they said, no, we're going to go with Nico because Nico's going to build this community. He's going to build this team. He's not going to hear just as a stepping stone. So all of that tells you that it It is an insult. I take it as an insult to call the Sounders in Miami at one point because the Sounders are innovators and they're the ones that a lot of teams, when they become expansion teams, they're looking over to say, how do we build the way that the Sounders did and rant over it?
00:11:25
Speaker
Yeah, by design or not, I think the Sounders understood from the very beginning that they couldn't just outspend anyone. Like they were always like early on, there was an element of they were spending a fair amount of money compared to their peers. But I think even in those days, they understood that there was an intangible quality that they needed players to have. And I think that's a lot of why.
00:11:48
Speaker
they've hit on so many of the signings that they've made is because they don't bring in necessarily the flashiest players. They almost always bring in the player who has, who fits with the ethos of what the team is trying to be. And I think JP is probably the best example of that, but you can go down the list.
00:12:06
Speaker
Nico Ladero for all the stats that he put up, it was his leadership and it was all the intangible stuff that really made him such a important signing player.
00:12:17
Speaker
and And you can just kind of go down that list. And and I think that they understood that, you Raul Ruiz Diaz, even though he hadn't even necessarily shown that, he he had elements of that. And he really grew into a lot of that.
00:12:28
Speaker
And like I said, you can just kind of go down the list and and find that in everyone. And, you know, I don't feel like we've had a proper send off for JP yet. And I think that that's something that we can still do. But I hope...
00:12:40
Speaker
that his involvement, his continued involvement in the club is a long time because I do think he, like I said, I really believe he embodies everything the Sounders aspire to be and hope to be. And you not even that they always are. I think it's that it's something beyond that. It's something that they are striving for and that he is like the perfect embodiment of Anything ah good to move on from there? Yes. yeah I don't know why I just ranted on that. That's okay. All right. Well, let's, we did learn a few things this week.
00:13:12
Speaker
ah One of the big ones is, and I don't know that this was a, any of these are big surprises, but we got some clarity.

Goalkeeper Decisions

00:13:19
Speaker
One of them, Andrew Thomas is going to be the starting goalkeeper.
00:13:22
Speaker
Brian Schmetzer has continued to sort of like straddle the line between it being a permanent designation and it being a one week designation. my My instinct is that he is sort of trying to let Steph down lightly, ah which I don't and I don't mean that in a derogatory way. But it's hard for me to see a world where unless Andrew Thomas just completely falls apart, that he's going to surrender this job. I think it's he's whited. You know, he's.
00:13:51
Speaker
You know, even today, Brian Schmesser noted that for two years he's been a starting quality goalkeeper. Andrew Thomas is 27 years old. It's time for him to get his shot. He, I think, has shown everything he can possibly shown to deserve it.
00:14:05
Speaker
And ah and i don't know. I just have a hard time seeing a world where he's not starting 30 odd games for the Sounders this year. Yeah, I think there's a couple things in what Schmetzer has said prior to today and in the the presser today about, I think some of it with Andrew and Steph as Schmetzer pointed out today, that some of Steph losing the starting spot, at least for this game, is outside of his control, that it is...
00:14:42
Speaker
not a direct byproduct, but it is downstream from him having to leave Spain after the death of his mother, really wanting to make sure that Steph isn't unduly punished for yeah point something like that. That's fair. Um, he also acknowledged that the decision for Andrew Thomas to start is not one that Steph was a hundred percent happy with that.
00:15:08
Speaker
And that's what you want. Right. I think on some level, For all that, as you've noted previously, Jeremiah, if you have two starting quarterbacks, you don't have a starting quarterback. Right. Correct.
00:15:20
Speaker
But you need that competition to a certain extent that it might be Thomas's position to lose, but that there is the real possibility that he could lose it based on performances. Yeah.
00:15:39
Speaker
Helps to keep... the, you know, keep the level in the game and in training high. Um, but yeah, I think it's, it's a deserved and well earned starting job for this game and run for the future for Andrew.
00:16:02
Speaker
As much as I absolutely love the, camaraderie in the relationship that it's almost little brother, big brother, stuff. And Andrew has, I don't think I phrased this question correctly because I was struggling to not make it sound like I was trying to get him to say something negative, but I did ask,
00:16:23
Speaker
Andrew about Brian using the term to number one goalkeepers. Right. And he was pretty open about it. And I think we all expected him to take it that way. And he said that gave all the praise to staff. And i just don't know if,
00:16:40
Speaker
That's just a reality. If you can really build confidence and find your voice, he was talking about his leadership and all those things. I don't know if you could really develop that completely if you feel like you're not the number one. but and and so I, I know that.
00:16:58
Speaker
the The way that Brian is using it is more as this is the way I want to handle it, as you guys just said. And I want to make sure that it does feel like we're giving Steph a fair shot. But at some point, there's going to have to be that conversation of yeah he's one and you're two. You can't every week go in saying, well, we'll see who starts.
00:17:20
Speaker
You know, it's correct. No, it's not. ah You know, it's not ah Dread Pirate Roberts telling. ah ah Why am I blanking on Wesley? Wesley every week. Well, today i might you might die kind of situation. You can't have that every week. No, you got it on some level. You got to have a number one starting goalkeeper. and And look, that doesn't mean that Andrew Thomas has his name written in concrete and that he can't be removed. But.
00:17:45
Speaker
He's got to you got to give him the space to have a run of games where he is able to be comfortable and he's able to find his voice and he's able to be the leader because you do need the goalkeeper to be a leader of sorts. You can't you you can't have two number ones, you know, and I think you can go, you know, you just look down the road at the Portland Timbers last year where they were kind of playing this game with Maxine Crip. Oh, God. And ah and Patemus.
00:18:11
Speaker
Yes. i'm I butchered that name. Yeah. OK. and And it was like they kind of were trying to play this game, too, where they had two number ones. You can't. You got to pick one. you You have to pick one. And I think Andrew Thomas has done everything to deserve it. And Stephen Fry has done nothing to lose the spot. But the reality is that he's 39 years old.
00:18:30
Speaker
He is, ah you know, I think he is ready to. He will be a perfectly good backup goalkeeper. And I like Steph a lot and i I'm not trying to push him out the door.
00:18:42
Speaker
I just think that it's time for a transition. And I think that's what we're getting here. And I will be shocked, like I said, if it's not Andrew Thomas's job to lose at this point. And that doesn't mean he can't lose it, but it just doesn't. it just I don't think...
00:18:56
Speaker
I would be shocked if Stefan Fry starts when they're both healthy, like any MLS games,

Leadership and Player Roles

00:19:02
Speaker
frankly. It's obviously different because the goalkeeper position is so different from any of the outfield positions in a way that...
00:19:11
Speaker
brusnack yeah he talks to a little bit yeah but we've seen schmetzer in two very notable cases in previous seasons once with rusnak and ladero and later with jordan and raul yeah of because of the nature of the outfield positions and Jordan had shown arguably that he was a better fit for the team in that moment as the nine than Raul was.
00:19:43
Speaker
Ladero's aging had made it so he couldn't do all of the action and have that that final precision and, ah you know, cutting edge that was necessary to be super effective. And he had Russ neck there ready to do it, but those guys had earned the opportunity to lose their job rather than be forced out and not really have a way to fight back.
00:20:10
Speaker
And so he let those guys play themselves out of a position. And once there was enough, footage essentially of like, here's you in the position, not getting the job done.
00:20:24
Speaker
When I give this other guy the opportunity, he gets the job done. i have to let him do the job now. And then you can come in behind him and help. You can't really do that with a goalkeeper where like, I'm going to let him play in a different position while you work it out.
00:20:41
Speaker
You've got to let the guy you think is ready, prove that he's ready. i I think it will bear out that we're going to get you know six games in. And I don't i don't imagine Schmetzer will week in and week out be going, well, could be either one of them. Today it's going to be be today it's going to be Andrew, but it could be either of them. i think before too long, it's going to be...
00:21:10
Speaker
Andrew is the starting goalkeeper. right Christian Roldan is the captain. well that was the other thing that he announced. Yeah, but also we hope because, again, I don't want to go too long on this so we can move on. But I think that I love what you just said because it it does remind me that...
00:21:26
Speaker
Brian has dealt with this, but not with guys that he had a bigger relationship with. I can tell you right now that the relationship between him and Raul, him and Nico, was not as close as it is with Stevan Frye. It makes it harder. The only, it makes it a lot harder. The way he talked today about moving on staff, he never, ever said about Nico or Raul, not one time. And that's okay. You know, sometimes you have the relationship with certain players. I think that the closest thing that you will see to this is Jordan Morris. Whenever Jordan Morris is time to pass, that'll be another one where he has this stretch, strong relationship with one player where you're,
00:22:05
Speaker
You kind of have to break your heart from your mind and from what right for the team. So, you know, I do feel for him because you could tell how difficult that he said today for him and the coaching staff was to say Andrew's the starter. Well, you know, you bring up an interest. I was going to talk about the whole Christian Rodon as captain thing. And honestly, I don't know how much there is to say about it. He's going to be.
00:22:24
Speaker
I don't think anyone's surprised that he's the captain. It was good to hear him make that announcement. It settles it. And i don't I don't know, is there, like, I think you've you've expressed your skepticism about whether or not Christian is ready to take on that mantle, and I guess we're gonna find out, you know?
00:22:41
Speaker
ah But it's good that that's settled. i don't know, what is there anything else to say about Christian being the captain, other than he's announced it? all I would add is that he he did kind of throw Yammer's name up there and yeah yeah and Albert. yammer was That was an interesting one yeah Exactly. So he, he, he put some names out that ah I do think that he'll have, you know, some help yeah as he grows into that position. But I do think that it'll be interesting to see how he handles that responsibility.
00:23:07
Speaker
Yeah. ah But, you know, you you bring up an interesting you you brought up this thing about Jordan. And I think that this has been an interesting debate that has not been totally out in the open is the way it looks like right now is Osaza de Rosario has effectively won the starting number nine job, at least for week one. Now, I don't think it's like correct. Andrew Thomas at goalkeeper. This is potentially a much more temporary situation. Now, if he keeps scoring, it's going to probably stay that way.
00:23:35
Speaker
But one of the interesting things, and it's not so much whether Danny Masofsky is ahead of him in the in the pecking order. it's Do you think Osaze de Rosario won the job over Jordan Morris? Or has Jordan Morris just been sort of pushed out to the wing as a way of accommodating another attacking player?
00:23:56
Speaker
I think... I think it's more the latter than the former. i think as you have noted in numerous places and others have spoken to a major factor of this is that realistically you're probably two top choice left wing options are not available to be starters. You don't have Pedro de la Vega until at least just before the world cup. Paul Arreola is not ready to be a starter.
00:24:28
Speaker
And so then you're looking at, okay, it's like Paul Rothrock versus play Paul Rothrock or Georgie or do you and especially with the way the team looks like they're building the way these guys operate.
00:24:44
Speaker
Do you play Jordan on the wing there? And sometimes he's a winger. Sometimes he's functioning more as sort of a second forward with the, you know, they, know,
00:24:57
Speaker
can play with sort of three in the back and then it's a three, four, three or a three, five, two shape where Jordan and Osaze are both crashing the posts to get on the end of balls from wider players. I think Jordan offers you a little bit more variety from that position than one of Rothrock or Georgie does not to say that they don't offer you something, but I think in this moment, it's more a matter of getting the most talent on the field in a way that enables everybody else on the field to play their best. And given the opportunities he's had, Osaze has won the right to keep doing it until he loses it. Essentially.
00:25:45
Speaker
I think it does have a lot to do with I'm not sitting Jordan. And and I think what you're saying, it's true. I absolutely agree. I've said it multiple times that the way they play, the the way the system works when they're ah in possession the way that it works when you're, you know, he talked about it today, Brian did, whether it's new who getting higher or one of the pivots getting on those white channels or those left pockets and and Jordan comes in, he does give you that that ability to have a guy that is truly a another strike another nine and he works well. But the the real...
00:26:28
Speaker
I don't know telling team for me. and and And this is Brian being Brian. I mean, he he he knows and understands that there's a lot of confidence in Osase. But he said, you know, we got to keep that tamed. We got to keep that down. yeah Right? So he's going to He's definitely passed over to the building Osase upstage and now and hold let's hold him down. That's right. So so I do think that it's going to be...
00:26:55
Speaker
Obviously a lot easier to manage than a goalkeeper because you can move around and you can move the system or whatever. But I think we're going see a lot of Jordan at the nine because Brian wants to see Jordan at the nine. Jordan wants to see Jordan at the nine. you have to accommodate for it. going figure out what works best. So I do think it's going to be on a result basis on how well does the Rosario produce. He's been phenomenal in the preseason, but it's a lot different to do preseason, do it on game day. So where does that go? I do think that his leash will be short. I'll say that. I agree with you. And I think this is probably the most fascinating and interesting sort of battle because it has trickle down effect. And it's, you know, Danny Masofsky is involved in this. Danny Masofsky is coming off an 18 goal season.
00:27:39
Speaker
We know that he was talking to the Sounders about a contract extension. As far as we can tell, nothing has been signed yet. So that is something that is like ah hovering in that, in that, that space.
00:27:49
Speaker
And we know Jordan, one, No matter what Jordan says, we know he's already told us many times over he wants to play as the nine. He is willing to be a good soldier and play out there for now, but there's going to be constant pressure.
00:28:02
Speaker
Osazi De Rosario wants to be on the field. He is a big personality. This is, I think, by far the most fascinating thing thing that's going on with the Sounders and, and it's going to get even more fascinating when Paul areola is fully fit. If, if Paul Rothrock is playing well, I mean, how long can they keep Paul Rothrock from playing? Like, I don't even know where, like he, he ah presumably will play some off the bench, I suppose in this game,
00:28:27
Speaker
But I don't I mean, there's there's ah these are all of a sudden going to be really interesting problems that don't get settled in preseason because you can play two games. You can play a a ones and you can play a twos and you're not going able to do that anymore.
00:28:41
Speaker
And there's not that many competition. like right now, the centers don't have a Champions Cup game for a month almost. ah So there's going to be there's not going to be a lot of obvious spaces for rotation, rotating the lineup.
00:28:53
Speaker
And this is going I think this is in some ways the most interesting balancing act that Brian Schmetzer has had to do. And in and because even in the role, Rudy is a Nicola Darrow things, you could say, well,
00:29:09
Speaker
This is we're planning for our future. Like whether or not Nico Ladero could have started for six more months or a year or rather Raul Ruiz Diaz could have played another six months or a year. At some point you knew the end was coming.
00:29:21
Speaker
And that's not Jordan Morris hitting the is in the prime of his career. Osase De Rosario was just coming into the prime of his career. All these guys need to be on the field. And how is how is Brian Schmetzer going to balance all that?
00:29:34
Speaker
I think a couple other things that play into this are, you know, they talked during the presser about how they're approaching improving on set pieces on both sides of the ball.
00:29:49
Speaker
One thing Danny Masovsky, 18-goal season, really good performance. He's not good in the air. His aerial duels numbers, both by volume and win percentage, are pretty poor for his position and his size.
00:30:06
Speaker
Asazi and Jordan are both much better. I think having both of them on the field rather than... Danny, i think those are like of your current left wing and striker options, your best two options for both defending and attacking set pieces, which should help improve those margins a little bit.
00:30:26
Speaker
ah You know, that was a lot of like just variance issues of getting unlucky on some of those plays. And I think you get a little bit luckier with those two guys. i think also starting Jordan on the wing and Osaze up top because of where Osaze is at. If you need to pull somebody to make a change at the 60 minute, it's a lot easier to pull Osaze and move Jordan up top horse. And then, you know, both of Georgie Rothrock are good players.
00:31:01
Speaker
sub guys like they can be super subs. They can be super impactful without having to be involved and feel the rhythm of the game from the start. Areola, uh,
00:31:13
Speaker
whether he is better one way or the other. i mean, I don't think go from the start right now. Right. And I think the thing was Ariel is sort of indicating that he is probably more Jesus Ferrer is back up right now, which at least for the short term makes sense because it it clarifies the left, way it unclogs the left wing a little bit.
00:31:31
Speaker
Yeah. And it's interesting because, There was also mention of Paul Arreola playing left back, that he started at left back. So what I see is this. Look, there is a world and a universe that would be kind of ideal for the Sanders if this thing works. I do think that what Tim just said is very true in terms of just changing things in the world.
00:31:57
Speaker
as the game develops, that it's a lot easier with this formation. But I also think that I've been doing, maybe it's a little too gimmicky, but yesterday on Fox 13, I said that they're like lightning and thunder, right? Cause they're just so different right there. Once quick, once strong. I mean, there's a world where having, yeah, shake and bake, baby. I mean, there is a way, you know I've said the Charbonnet and canine, like there's this one, two punch that that maybe does work because look, look,
00:32:25
Speaker
the Rosario has earned it. and And I hate that. I feel like I'm always crapping on Danny Mosavski's parade, like all the time. And he's not by design. I swear he's not. But, but that's just the reality that Osarie's been so good that he forced himself into 11. Now you got to make it happen. And all it takes is for him to be,
00:32:43
Speaker
close to his potential and it's over, baby. It's the way it's going to be. The real question will be once Pedro La Vega comes back and what do you do then? That's where things get a little bit dicey for Osase because he's not as versatile to just move him anywhere else. How do you set

Tournament Focus and Player Contracts

00:33:00
Speaker
it up? So those are the the questions. And I do think that there's enough tournaments this season and that's why as much as ah as much as a softball as I threw Brian today for my last question, it was by design because I'm truly...
00:33:13
Speaker
Curious. is priority What do you put your priority? There's a lot of tournaments. I'm a CONCACAF champions guy. I know a lot of you out there in the Sounder Heart universe are not. It's all about and MLS Cup. So I wanted to know, look, you've done it all. You've won it all. But if you were to go out in your terms, which one would it be? And he said MLS Cup. And I think that's that's awesome, right?
00:33:33
Speaker
I think another thing with the Jordan Osaze thing is We saw, and some of this is just the product of the drills that they were doing, but, and again, i don't want to crap on Danny Masavsky unnecessarily, but he, his game is really one thing. It's being in good positions and finishing chances.
00:33:58
Speaker
Osaze offers you a lot more rounded play. He offers better holdup play. He's better at finding other guys when he's inside of the box.
00:34:08
Speaker
Um, we saw him doing that during the international break a couple of years ago where it clicked with his national team and he brought that back to play with defiance and then break his way into the first team. But I think Jordan playing on the wing and being able to come in and operate off of Osaze, Jordan's going to have a lot more fun doing that than I think he has with some of the other forwards. He's,
00:34:35
Speaker
played with when he's been on the wing, where I think it is going to allow him to function a little bit more as a second forward. And for all that he prefers to play as the nine, i think if he's setting up and scoring goals, he's probably going to be okay with yeah wherever he's getting to do that from. And I think he's going to have more joy playing with Osaze, which I think might help alleviate any tensions there.
00:35:04
Speaker
Yeah, that's ah that's a fair point. You know, one of the other things I'm just curious of your thoughts on, know, we also learned this week that Pedro de la Vega is going to be out at least until mid to late May.
00:35:17
Speaker
And that sounds like the optimistic timeline. And maybe more realistically, he's not going to come back until after the World Cup. Now, it's important to know that the World Cup break starts after the game on May 24th.
00:35:31
Speaker
And then it ends on July 19th when the Sounders play the early July 16th when the Sounders play the Portland Timbers. And so it's you got there's only either coming back in mid to late May or you're coming back in mid to late July. Those are the only two options. Right.
00:35:48
Speaker
And. I don't know that there's a lot to be said right now. Like the Sounders cannot move. Like there's no, there's no button where you get to say like, well, we're tired of the Pedro de la Vega experiment. Let's jettison this. Like that's not a realistic option. they They're going to have to wait for him to come back.
00:36:05
Speaker
But I do wonder, you know, lobbying scorchers spent a lot of time talking about whether or not they were still in on this, on, on Pedro de la Vega's future for the Sounders.
00:36:17
Speaker
And I don't, I have to admit that there is we're getting to a point now where it's like, well, what, what are are what is the plan here? And i got to imagine that's tough for Pedro because Pedro has done really everything that when he's on the field, he's done everything that he can do.
00:36:34
Speaker
And the only reason he's not on the field is because of something that is really outside of his control. ah and i And I do wonder what the long term vision for this is. And i I kind of wonder if the Sounders couldn't figure out a way to work out a deal where they extend him and get him off the DP contract. Because it seems like if he wasn't and on a DP contract, you'd just be like, whatever. Like, we're this is a super talented guy. Why i wouldn't want him around?
00:37:00
Speaker
Yeah, that's a phenomenal question. And I think that there is a lot to something that I've been, a term I've been using, which is it' not the term, it's not like I'm using a new term, but it's the checkpoint of the the summer. And I think that checkpoint there's going to be a lot of microscopes around this roster.
00:37:21
Speaker
How does Hassani, Nicola, and everybody that's going to be next to Christian working out, do we need to make a purchase and up that level in that position or is it working well?
00:37:32
Speaker
I think on the wing, if you're deciding that you're going to keep Pedro and you're going to extend him, that maybe makes it a lot easier for you to move on from Georgie or, you know, do certain things with your roster. Yeah. Or if you're getting, if you think, if you're looking at this roster and maybe things on that left wing aren't quite working or you decide that maybe Jordan's your guy up up top, then do you move on from a guy like Pedro if there's a decent offer? Both you and I have been on record saying that there's there's been teams interested in him. Now, obviously, that's pre the injury. Right. No one's going to buy him when no one's gonna buy him what he's injured. When he's injured. But if that was the case, do you maybe make a big purchase on that side? So I think just in there's a lot of, you know, things that Craig Weibel and the organization you need to settle down about the organization. And it's all going to come down to how things are working from here all the way to where that checkpoint is.
00:38:29
Speaker
I, if they could, and I think there's a a scenario where you know Schmetzer was talking about the World Cup break is going to serve as sort of a second mini preseason yeah where that's almost ideal for from a getting Pedro back on the field perspective. If you say, OK, our target is for you to be.
00:38:57
Speaker
fit enough that you could play before world cup. But our goal for getting you actually on the field is post world cup. You take this preseason period to get your fitness as high as you can get it.
00:39:12
Speaker
You get him into a rhythm to the extent that you're able to And then you hopefully have almost the flip of last year where Yeah.
00:39:24
Speaker
killing it and then goes out just before you go into the playoffs. If you can use those last couple months of the season to get him from being fit to inform and all of a sudden you go into the playoffs and you have Pedro playing at his best.
00:39:42
Speaker
Now you're a much more likely team to be able to reach and win MLS cup, I think before you get to that point, you can hopefully go to Pedro and say, look, it's been rough through no fault of your own injuries have kept you from reaching the level that we all know that you're able to consistently.
00:40:08
Speaker
We want to offer you the security so that, you know, You're not playing for your job right now. Your focus can be on getting right and then we'll grow together.
00:40:22
Speaker
If you can get him to before the summer, agree to an extension, get him off of that DP number. maybe you can add a third DP wherever you feel like the need is in the summer and then be that much stronger.
00:40:42
Speaker
He has the second half of the season and playoffs to demonstrate that either he can be a focal pu piece for the team going forward over the duration of his contract or someone does come in and make a big offer and it becomes a win-win for everybody. But I think it seems like a position where offering him that security benefits everyone involved. Yeah.
00:41:12
Speaker
And I would love that if that was to happen. I just don't see... it would have to come from him. I don't see his representation, his agent saying, look, at 25 years old, regardless of that injury, I'll put a highlight package and we're going to sell you to Toluca for this amount of money or we're going to put you in Monterrey for this amount of money. i think that at 25 really hard to You'd have to take a very mature, conservative, and maybe a person that is is in love with the city and in love with what's going on here to take that decision. i just, I would be surprised. I'd be pleasantly surprised if it was to just take that, ah you know, idea of, okay, I want security, but I'm going to have to lower my expectations um on some salary rather than...
00:42:04
Speaker
Him being like, okay, I think I got one more check in me. Let me perform as much as I can for the rest of my contract. And then once that's up, then, you know, I'll see what happens after that. And I will say one of the things that I just wanted to double check on this.
00:42:17
Speaker
One of the other things that complicates this all is he's still under contract through December of 27. Yeah. So he's got all of this year. He's got the sprint season and he's got then a six month deal. And then the centers have another option.
00:42:29
Speaker
So like, I don't realistically, don't, I don't even know if they can technically resign them as a non DP now, like ah they would probably have to wait anyway. yeah But I think what we are going to hear a lot about this summer is it's like a new signing.
00:42:46
Speaker
You hear a lot about how people's favorite phrase, people's favorite phrase. It's like a new signing, but not, but not a new signing, but not a new signing. I do hope, you know, ah and it would be nice if the sounders can actually, I do think this is getting off subject, but it would be nice if the sounders have the sounders we know have salary cap space to make a signing this summer. They have,
00:43:09
Speaker
There's something like $3 million dollars of unused cap space right now, best and based on my best estimates. And you would think that they can go do something with that. I don't know if it necessarily means like it would be tough to get a DP because they don't have an open DP spot right now.
00:43:23
Speaker
And I think probably the more realistic candidates for getting off the DP contract is probably Albert Rusnak, who is correct going into the final year of his contract. Correct. And presumably could could, you know, might be able to be resigned at less than a DP deal. Of course, we said this last time and he keeps performing at a DP level.
00:43:43
Speaker
ah One of the other things we talked to, we talked to Albert twice this week, right? Or it was it last week? Yeah, twice. And one of the things I asked him about is if he feels like he doesn't get the respect that he deserves. And here we are again talking about how maybe he shouldn't be a DP and his next contract. And yet he's going his consistency is so underappreciated. I think even by, even by us, certainly by the Sounders fans and very much so by people outside of the Sounders ecosystem.
00:44:15
Speaker
It's just every year he's putting up 20 goals and assists. And no one and everyone just goes, yeah, that's Albert. What are you going to do And I don't have a good i don't even know if I understand why he doesn't. get I guess it's because it's always right around 20 and it's never 30 or 40.
00:44:32
Speaker
But every year he's right there. I mean, he's got like something. i think it was the fourth most goals and primary assists over the past two seasons. I think lot of it is that MLS has changed. I think those same numbers seven years ago, eight years ago might put you in MVP valets, but um MLS has grown substantially. and And again, I do think that the the profile of player that he is takes a little bit away from it. He himself.
00:45:02
Speaker
he He doesn't want to be the face. I've asked him, I've been to visit a franchise multiple times. Like, nah, man, we're a team. right And I love that about Albert. I think he's a guy that at one point he might just stay on some high time. If you were to tell him, Hey Albert, we're going to sign you for the next 43 and option for this amount. He he probably stay. Cause he, but the thing I love about Albert outside of the pitch is that He's so happy with who he is. He just lets you have it. Today he was talking about the hockey game as he's in the middle of the presser. like He's just a chill guy. I love to just sit there and just have ah beer with the guy because he's just that that type of dude. But yes, I agree that he is undervalued. i think he's underappreciated.
00:45:43
Speaker
um I do think that he's a guy that makes this system work. And I love that he can be okay with himself and say, look, I'm just part of this wonderful system that works for everybody. And I'm going to continue to get mine on the stat sheet and on the field and, and, and, and the trophy case. Cause he has the trophy case. so I think some of the underrating of Russ snack comes from, you know, he,
00:46:11
Speaker
was at ah RSL in not exactly the peak of their RSL-dom.
00:46:22
Speaker
had previously been in the Manchester City Academy, but moved from there and then came to MLS from not the most heralded Groningen. Groningen.
00:46:36
Speaker
But that also, you know, just who he is as a guy. you obviously somewhat tongue in cheek asked him again to clarify the pronunciation of his name and much in the same way he approaches everything. He was like, whatever, it's all good.
00:46:52
Speaker
it's all pretty close, whatever. right he got asked about, you know, having been played back a line when he first came and he was like, yeah, whatever. That's what the team needed. And we won CCL. So that was pretty cool. Like, I think the way he approaches it, he deflects and Nico's point, he, he doesn't want to be the center of attention.
00:47:13
Speaker
the game doesn't necessarily flow through him as much as he does play a key part in how they play, but he's not the focal point for the, the team in the way that, you know, with Nico, everything moved through Nico.
00:47:30
Speaker
He also, i think the fact that he did sign as a DP after having been a 10 and came and then played essentially as an eight during that first season. i think that lives in a lot of people's minds yeah for inexplicable ways where,
00:47:49
Speaker
They kind of look past the frankly somewhat eye popping numbers and remember that, well, in his first season, he had, you know, three goals, three goals. And knows this he played as an eight. And so in their minds, he's always in that spot, despite putting up double digit goals and assists numbers every season.
00:48:14
Speaker
Yeah. ah Well, the the last thing I want to talk about, unless anybody has any more Albert stuff, I think we're probably short on time, but we need to get this out because I did want to hear about Ovid Vargas in the article that you put out, Jeremiah. But I wanted to put it together with something that i don't think people are seeing it as a positive. And I think that is a little bit underrated.
00:48:38
Speaker
But it's one of the things that I learned this week that was huge for me and is verbatim per Brian's master was the Sounders becoming a selling team. And to me, I hear a lot of mixed feelings from fans that, hey, you know, we should have kept Breed and we can't be just selling our product. I think it's opposite. I think that...
00:49:01
Speaker
I'm not saying that you sell all your academy products. that I'm not saying you sell, you don't think about the team first, but the Sounders have consistently brought in players that are already working for the team, whether it's through Tacoma or through the academy. So as long as you keep that going, if you become a team that's globally known for providing product, that has a huge repercussion. I mean, look, if Danny Leyva gets out here and continues to do well and does even better and Mexican teams start to say, hey, we need to go look at the Sounders and see what they got. That's a good thing. If Obed Vargas, one of the biggest moves in MLS history, outbound, happens to work out teams in Europe are going to say, Hey, we need to be looking at the Sounders. And in every huge, every big club that I know growing up, you want to be that team that is either creating players or selling players, whether it's the Porto way, buying them and reselling them or the Barcelona way, getting them out of your Academy or

Club Strategy and Player Development

00:49:58
Speaker
Real Madrid. So that is a, that's a good thing. I don't want people to make it seem like it's a bad thing is if you can be that team, in MLS that provides this sort of talent.
00:50:08
Speaker
It's great. So I'm i'm rooting for Reed Baker Whiten to have a good season with with Nashville. I'm rooting for obviously Alvarez and ah Danny Leyva. But this is a thing that, you know, might work out for the club.
00:50:21
Speaker
You know, there's two kinds of selling clubs. There's clubs that sell their starters and then look for the next guy. And then there's clubs that sell two main types. There's teams that sell players who are blocked by even better players. And with the exception of Obed Vargas, who is a special case,
00:50:41
Speaker
The Sounders are essentially selling their their excess talent. You know, the reason that Reed Baker Whiting was able to be sold is because there wasn't a clear pathway to playing time. It was either behind Nuhu or is behind Paul Rothrock or is Paul Areola or Georgie Menungu wherever else you wanted to put him. There was someone blocking his pathway.
00:51:02
Speaker
Same thing. Josh Atencio last year, you know, The Sounders would have, you know, he was not he he had been moved out of a position to play center back because he didn't have a clear pathway forward. And so someone came with an offer that was good.
00:51:15
Speaker
Danny Leyva, very much the same thing. Like all these players would have been great to have. They were they're really nice depth pieces, but it's a totally different equation when you're talking about selling depth than when you're talking about selling your starters.
00:51:27
Speaker
And I think that's ah that's a ah pretty important distinction. And between the four of those players, sort of centers of made some between GAM and Cash, somewhere in the $7 million dollar range, which is not crazy amount of money. No, it's substantial. But it's a substantial. These are things that help you operate.
00:51:44
Speaker
and And I think with all of them, they are players who it helps... It does not hurt their ability to win MLS Cup by trading these players.
00:51:55
Speaker
And even in Obed Vargas's case, they already had his ready replacement. They had already signed his replacement. it's all part of the same virtuous cycle that even extends to, you know, defiance adding a couple of the guys that they've added this off season, but most recently Mark Bronick, who was a very highly rated player at union Omaha and USL league one. He won the young player of the year award for that league. And I've,
00:52:26
Speaker
That's essentially on the same level of the, it's not really a pyramid because you can't move up and down it, but yeah same level as MLS next pro where the sounders one previously it had three outbound player sales that were a million dollars or more.
00:52:47
Speaker
All four of those players are on deals that could reach that level. But also, you are showcasing to the kids in your academy, the kids in Defiance, the kids you're talking to about coming to Defiance, kids who you're talking to from out of the region or in the region about joining define about joining the academy that...
00:53:15
Speaker
If you do the work and you demonstrate, we ah have a pathway here that we are going to give you every opportunity in the Academy at defiance.
00:53:26
Speaker
You're going to have your chance to try to win a spot in the first team. If you're blocked, we will find you a path to a place that is going to be a good fit for you. I think all of those moves are great fits for the player on top of being good deals for the Sounders. Like I think there's a very real chance that Reed could win a starting spot in Nashville. And with the moves they've made in addition to him, that's a great place for him to be. Danny at Nekoxa is a great spot. He looks great and he fits really well in that team.
00:54:00
Speaker
Josh, it hasn't worked out. but he's a starter. He's a starter starter and has space where he can be a very good MLS player there.
00:54:11
Speaker
And he just was blocked here. it is, you know, by doing those things, you can make a stronger case. You can bring in higher quality players. You are filling the pipeline with increasingly talented players who then are competing against each other and making each other even better.
00:54:32
Speaker
it it only makes the team better. That's a great point. i I didn't even think about that, but I was just talking to someone within the organization and they were saying that they want their youth development to not be, you know, like Dallas, where it's like 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, you know, they got all this bulk. They want to be able to focus on X amount of ages, be able to provide some really good talent. And just like you said, he mentioned, but we got a guy like, uh, sadness, uh, Gallatin where, you know, he's already in, in the starting, he's with practicing with the first team. He's been the first team in in Spain, all of these things where there is a clear pathway. If you're performing, if you're doing well, And that goes along with everything that we just talked about, those opportunities to be sold, because it's saying if you don't find a ah ah ah space here, we're going to do right by you by putting you somewhere where you are going to perform.
00:55:25
Speaker
Absolutely. Well, you know, what I do want to do is talk about the Obed Vargas situation, but i want to talk about it after the break. We have an interview with Steve Cangelosi.

Interview with Steve Cangelosi

00:55:33
Speaker
who is the play-by-play announcer for this weekend's game against the Colorado Rapids. So we'll take a break. We'll do the Cangelo's interview, and then we'll come back at the end of the segment, and we will kind of talk through this Obed Vargas thing and and get out of here. You're listening to Nos Arietes.
00:55:51
Speaker
Senator Hart has been around in one form or another since 2009. In 2026, though, we make a pretty significant evolution when we go analog. Yes, that's right. In the year of our Lord, 2026, we are publishing a real life magazine. We're calling this thing four. as in Sounder at Heart 4.0, but we're stylizing it as IV because we absolutely love Roman numeral. And if you want to refer to it as IV, that's cool too. The first issue has a comic book style cover that was hand drawn by local artist Kevin Newber. Features by Tim Foss, Susie Rance, and Charlie Bohm. A statistical deep dive by Kat Bush. A Q&A with Brian Schmetzer. A column by G. Willow Wilson. And photographs by Noah Reif, Max Aquino, Mike Russell, and Jane Gershowitz. I could not possibly be more proud of the work everyone put into making this, and I think you're gonna absolutely love it. If you'd like to get your hands on one of these limited edition copies, we're currently selling them for $15 on our website. Get yours now. Nos Adietes admittedly is not exactly known for our spicy takes, but that doesn't mean we want our food to be mild.
00:56:53
Speaker
Spice up your life with Hacks and Ferments. Handcrafted in Georgetown and made with the best local ingredients from across the Pacific Northwest, they specialize in unique small batch fermented hot sauces and vinegars.
00:57:04
Speaker
Hacks and Ferments brings bold flavors and natural fermentation together for something truly special. Whether you're a heat seeker or just looking to elevate your cooking, you'll find something you love at haxanferments.com.
00:57:17
Speaker
That's H-A-X-A-N-F-E-R-M-E-N-T-S dot com. And right now, if you use the code sounder at heart, that's all one word, at checkout, you will get a free hot sauce with your order.
00:57:33
Speaker
Again, go to hacksandferments.com, use the code sounderatheart at checkout for a free hot sauce with your order. Hacks and Ferments is a proud sponsor of the Sounder at Heart podcast network.
00:57:48
Speaker
Welcome back to Nos Adientes on the Sounder Heart Podcast Network. I am Jeremiah Shan. Joining me right now is Steve Cangilosi, the play-by-play announcer for to or for this weekend's Sounders Rapids game.
00:58:02
Speaker
Welcome to the show, Steve. This a first for us. yeah And a first for me as well. It's great. You guys do great, great work. I follow it as much as I possibly can in a league with 30 teams. Of course, sometimes that's not easy. I'm excited to get out to Seattle because I know everybody wants to get to Seattle to witness the seafood.
00:58:22
Speaker
I'm a New Yorker. But the secret that I found out, one of the great Italian restaurants in this country is in Seattle in Asaggio. And I'm not going have a chance to get there on Sunday, but on my next trip out, it's it's going to be appointment eating for me. Well, that is, ah yeah, I know there are some good Italian spots here. I i would be, I'm going be honest, I'm a little nervous. I'm a little nervous about the idea of a New Yorker coming to Seattle and eating Italian food. But hey, I know. I know there are some, some good Italian places over here. So um I'm happy to hear that.
00:58:59
Speaker
Good to know there's good, good reports. Yeah, I am. I am nervous. I am definitely nervous. No, no, no. This is tried and trusted. I've done it already. No. Okay. Okay. Good. All right. All right. Right. Well, ah you know, you mentioned that you haven't been out here a ton. You have, you were, we were just talking in the, in the pre-show and you said you called 19 Miami games last year. How many times have you even been out to like, I know we have not seen your name on the call sheet very often for, for the sounders.
00:59:29
Speaker
So I believe, and don't hold me to this, I think this will be my fourth trip in total. This is year four, of course, of the Apple deal to Seattle. I was out there once or twice for other assignments. Believe it or not, I called a Manchester United friendly back at the stadium years ago. And back in the day when we did those regional broadcasts, Jeremiah, with the New York Red Bulls, more often than not, we called those West Coast trips off the monitor back in New York. Sure. It's a treat for me. And this is different for us. I have a feeling Danny and I are going to be ensconced in the Western Conference a lot more. Danny Higginbother, my partner and I, more than we ever have.
01:00:10
Speaker
Well, you know, it's funny. You, you are one of the top teams, i think without, there's no question that you guys are one of the top broadcast teams on, on Apple. And you have not had to call too many games off the monitor over the years. But this year, my understanding is the monitors have basically been done away with and and announcers are going to be in stadium. Most of the time, it does feel like, you know, this year will be, ah you know, it it'll be an interesting year this year, I think for the, for the whole broadcast situation.
01:00:38
Speaker
On so many different levels. And Danny and I were spoiled. We didn't have to call too many off the monitor in the first three years of this. But there's nothing like the stadium experience. And there are things, Jeremiah, that I think probably and ah only a broadcaster can acutely understand, but some things I think everybody can relate to.
01:00:58
Speaker
If you're hearing an announcer that's not at the stadium, you need to know an offside flag goes up right immediately. You know, ah Danny Higginbottom is one of the best analysts in the world. And I always joke, he sees 22 players on the field at once. And there were things he sees away from the ball that you simply cannot. If you are looking at a singular monitor, it makes a big difference on so many levels. But those are one of the biggest. ah Those are some of the biggest reasons. know and I think you can, you do get a feel for that when you're listening to the game, how you just got to get this vibe that the announcers don't quite have the, the breath of a vision that they would otherwise have.
01:01:40
Speaker
And so it is nice to, I'm you know, I'm a, I'm a big fan of, of the whole broadcast ah presentation. And I'm, I'm a big, I'm very happy to hear that there's going be more in stadium games or in stadium calls, but let's,
01:01:56
Speaker
talk about this game in particular. ah You've had a chance to talk to the new Rapids coach, Matt Wells.

Colorado Rapids Strategy

01:02:02
Speaker
He comes from Tottenham Hotspur. What have you learned about him? What's his approach going to be? It sounds like it may be a little different than previous Rapids coaches. Oh, without question. And it'll be a much different approach from Chris Armis, who's now coaching in the NWSL, by the way, what stood out to me in the conversation with Matt, And I'm not the only one he said this to is he wants his team to be the protagonist. And it'll be interesting to see a possession based team now in Colorado. Now it's not going to relate to the season opener that we're going to watch on Saturday night in Seattle because the game is at Lumen field. However,
01:02:41
Speaker
What I think you'll find is a coach that wants to use altitude to his advantage. And his philosophy, I believe, is that when we're on our home ground, we want the opposition to get exhausted chasing us. So I think you'll see a team come out of the gate, start to employ a more possession-based style tomorrow, and how Seattle counters that will go a long way in dictating the result of game one.
01:03:08
Speaker
Yeah, you know, and this roster was built primarily in the vision of of Chris Armis, who wanted to press, who wanted to be a sort of like hard-nosed team. And one of the biggest moves that the Rapids made was getting, is was trading away Cole Bassett, who had been sort of a linchpin of that team, who had actually left and returned to the Rapids.
01:03:30
Speaker
What have they done roster-wise, and how do you think that's going to mesh with this new style that Matt Wells brings? Remember that Rapids team that finished third in Leagues Cup just two years ago? They had the nice run in the tournament and they knocked off a couple of Liga Ameki sides in the process, including Club America.
01:03:50
Speaker
Get that team out of your mind. That team is now gone. Cole Bassett, George Mihailovic were the guys who were supposed to be the engines that made that team hum for a lot longer than they did. Now they're both gone. Oliver Larraz, gone. Andreas Maxu, gone. Lala Sabubakar played some very fine games for them, gone. So that group is done. Hatha Navarro is a player that I think you't get should get a little more love than maybe the national media has given him. He's a good finisher, the Brazilian DP. But what I think you'll see more of an emphasis on in their attack this year is playing with inverted wingers. And they brought in Dante Sealy to the mix. And I think he'll be a key figure, not only in the first game tomorrow night, but also moving forward to them. So when you employ that, what does that mean? It probably means the fullbacks become of greater importance than they normally might. We expect that to be Sam Vines and Reggie Cannon for the bulk of the season, but we'll see how that manifests itself as well. Change in the air, new coach, new ideas. And quite frankly, Jeremiah, that's one of the themes of the season. We have nine coaches new to the seat to start this year.
01:05:06
Speaker
And remember, this is also a unique year in Major League Soccer. where we're going to have something close to a seven week break in the middle. Those teams that don't do the things that they're expected to do between now and may 24th. When we start that world cup break, we're in the most impatient era in NLS, maybe ever.
01:05:26
Speaker
You just know there are teams that go to reset. And some of those resets will involve coaching changes as we get to mid year. To me, that's something I expect to happen. Yeah. And Matt Wells, I believe is going to be the youngest of these new coaches. I'm not sure. 37, 37. Yeah. 37, a child really for someone like you, people like us, you know, think we can say that 37 is, is, is a virtual child. Right.
01:05:53
Speaker
But what do you, I mean, did did you get any sense from him of what, you know, what it's like to be a young coach in MLS? Yeah. He put it this way, and i thought this is something I'm going to impart on the air on Saturday night, no and and I'll do it here ah for your audience.
01:06:10
Speaker
The biggest change, and I put the question to him this way, ah because I've had this conversation with other young coaches. What's the big difference being a career assistant? That's the other wrinkle in this. He's never been ah full-time manager, a head coach.
01:06:27
Speaker
They look at you differently when they know you're the guy that makes the lineup. And the frustration that he explained that he had, now he was at Tottenham under some heavyweight head coaches, okay? He's not coming from some secondary league in some pocket of the world. But he did say the last few years that he was an assistant coach.
01:06:48
Speaker
He had ideas and ideas he wanted to employ. And sometimes the great frustration is that those ideas cannot get enacted because the buck does not stop with you. So the weight that's off his shoulders now is that there's a lot going on up here in the head.
01:07:06
Speaker
And now he has the chance to see that play out on the field. I don't think that makes him unique, by the way, but here he is coming to NLS in what he believes will be stop number one of a long and fruitful career. He was impressive when we spoke with him.
01:07:22
Speaker
Well, that's good to hear. i mean, I think that's one of the things that's been fun about and MLS is that you can bring in coaches that have different kinds of ideas that there's not that we don't, you know, I feel like MLS is, is especially recently gotten better about not having sort of just this conveyor belt of the same coaches who just come and,
01:07:40
Speaker
go in and out is becoming a more worldly league. It's always been a worldly league in terms of the players, but it's becoming, you know, we're bringing in more foreign coaches and those coaches sometimes come here and, and leave and leave an an amazing legacy. And sometimes they come back and i think it's feeling like a a proper, you know, like a proper rotation. Well, Jeremiah, look, think about where we are right now. And, you know, the Apple deal probably plays into this a little bit because this is a league that's accessible anywhere across the globe, practically. So that connection is probably stronger than it's ever

Obed Vargas Transfer

01:08:16
Speaker
been. And the connection gets stronger when a player like Obed Vargas goes to Atletico Madrid, one of the giant clubs in Europe. I think that's good for the Sounders. It's obviously good for Obed.
01:08:29
Speaker
But I think coaches and sporting directors and general managers throughout the world all take note of that. And I can't put a price tag on that kind of thing. And hopefully he does well playing in La Liga. I think he started already once for them, hasn't he?
01:08:46
Speaker
ah he I don't think he started, but he's played three times. He played in two La Liga matches. So it's a it's been a good ah you know it's been a good start. I think it's been... you know There's not that many examples of players going from MLS directly, not just to being under the the contract of a big club, but actually getting on the field for ah a club as big as a political. I mean, it's really... It's like Tim Howard, Alphonso Davies. And then I'm not sure when you're talking about clubs, the size of Atletico Madrid, there just is not an, like but lots of Chelsea assigned lots of and MLS players, for instance, but very few of them have gone straight into Chelsea. Yeah. Matt Miazga, I remember got the move to Chelsea. ga onena a lot of them hey For the longest time, I remember the two biggest, try I mean, I'm dating myself here. Forgive me, everybody. But for the longest time, probably the two most prominent transfers in this league were Clint Dempsey to Fulham and Josie Altidore to Villarreal. Right. think those moves, if I'm right, my map is memorized correctly. It was 2 million for Clint and 4 million for Josie.
01:09:51
Speaker
Think about where we've come now. We've got to dwarf that now several years later. It is pretty wild. But, you know, just to circle back real quick on the unique nature of the structure of the league this year, where we have basically half the season before the World Cup break and then half the season. after the World Cup break. And one of the things that I think is really interesting about that, aside from it being broken into halves like that, is that the summer transfer window almost always ends with just, you know, 10, 12 games left to plan the season. Yeah. This year, the transfer window opens with half the season left to play.
01:10:31
Speaker
i mean, that has to sort of change the approach. I mean, ah teams can really go into this break. And as much as there is going to be an emphasis to put yourself in as good a position as possible, there's also going to be this knowledge that they can sort of remake their team if they need you. And they're going have,
01:10:47
Speaker
you know, a virtual off season to do it. How do you think that might end up playing out? A bunch of us were asked to give MLS cup predictions about a week and a half ago. Okay.
01:10:59
Speaker
And you may or may not have noticed. I actually picked Seattle to beat my, did not notice, but and i yeah i I need to go back and recheck. is the most ridiculous exercise of which we are asked. We are asked to pick a game in a matchup that we don't know what it will be nine months from now. And to your point, the question that you have put forward with players who have not even arrived in the United States in all likelihood, who will be on the field for two respective teams in MLS Cup. So I think, look, the importance of general managers and sporting directors in this league, it's obviously been imperative.
01:11:38
Speaker
The best ones put winning teams on the field. I don't know that that's any more or less stressed as we look at what a transfer window might be this year. But how many examples have we had of guys who come into this league and only have a handful of games to find their legs, to find their footing chemistry with their teammates before the playoffs roll around?
01:12:07
Speaker
I'm going to bring my Red Bull experience into this a little bit. Okay. Bradley Wright Phillips came in first season scores twice upon his arrival. And there are people thinking this is a bust.
01:12:18
Speaker
He's anything, but he becomes one of the most prolific scorers in MLS history. And a guy who's scored more than a hundred times for his club teams in a great, great career. So what I think you'll get are players who do arrive this summer with perhaps a little bit more time to acclimate and make a true difference by the time the playoffs roll around in Major League Soccer. And then our universe changes, by the way, in the summer of 2027, of course, because then we're on the same calendar as everybody else. And I think then you'll see whatever talent is available to MLS really start to come to the forefront at that time.
01:12:56
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I'm not the first person to say this, but in a lot of ways, we've already sort of passed the Rubicon in terms of MLS. We we have now stepped beyond the last time that we will have a quote unquote normal MLS season where it it plays out sort of on the calendar that we're used to that plays out at the cadence that we're used to And this year is really the first of what will be at least three successive seasons that feel very different from one another.
01:13:25
Speaker
you know, this year we're going to have, you know, a season that is split essentially in half where we have half the season before the world cup and half of it after next year is going to be a so-called sprint season where we only play seven. I think there's only supposed to be 17 games in the regular season or something like that before they, they go into the playoffs. And then of course in 27, 28, we'll have the first new schedule where we play ah across two calendar years. Uh,
01:13:53
Speaker
It's an exciting time to be part of MLS. Is there anything that you will, you know, we'll close out with ah anything you kind of look back fondly on MLS and say like, oh, you know, and these were maybe these were the good old days. Oh, OK. Oh, so NLS 3.0 is where we are. Right. Exactly. yeah Look, my affiliation with the league is longer than most. I started with the Red Bulls broadcast team on the MSG network in New York back in 2002, which was also a World Cup year.
01:14:27
Speaker
So the story that I like to invoke describing that year, the United States, of course, goes to the World Cup, South Korea and Japan, makes an exciting run to the quarterfinals. We're celebrating the game for the first time in a long time in this country.
01:14:42
Speaker
Clint Mathis, who was the most prominent player on the Metro Stars at the time, scored a goal against South Korea. Terrific goal. Comes back, stands on the sideline, gets ready to come in to big applause in the second half of a game at the old Giants stadium.
01:15:01
Speaker
Until the fourth official looks back at the game sheet and says, you're not listed as an official sub. Go back to the bench. Clint is beside himself.
01:15:12
Speaker
I'm the sideline reporter at the time. Nobody in the stadium understands what's going on until I connect dots. I get a look at the sheet myself and I say, oh, my, his first game back from the World Cup.
01:15:25
Speaker
He was left off the team sheet by mistake. The coach at the time goofed. Octavio Zambrano felt bad about it for the longest time. So that's where we were, Jeremiah. We are now in a place where Messi's scoring bangers and finishing this and that. And Robert Lewandowski might be coming over the summer for all we know. Talk about transformation. right? Yeah, no, it's, it's been, you know, it's been remarkable. Even I've only been covering the league since 2009 and it, it is in a lot of ways, almost unrecognizable, even from 2009 to think about where it was then and where it is now. And and certainly where it's going, ah you know, it's, it's been, you know, it's been, it's been fun. And I, I'm, I'm excited, but I also can't, you know, I can't deny that there's some nerves that go into, you know, you've come to low love something and it's change. And,
01:16:17
Speaker
But, you know, it's been it's been a fun to be on the ride. It's great having you on the show with us, Steve. Good luck on the call. Hopefully you get some good Italian food, maybe. ah You know, maybe maybe some other some rather good, fun stuff. You're not going to be here too long. so No, no, ah less than 24 hours, as a matter of fact, because I'm red-eyeing home and getting in the morning of the game.
01:16:41
Speaker
But I am coming back ah in short order, and that's when I'm really going to get the the Seattle experience fully. Yeah, if you're here a little longer, I'd love to take you out for a drink or something and ah and and and show you some some other parts of Seattle that maybe maybe you don't otherwise get to see. but Fantastic.
01:16:59
Speaker
Love it. Steve, thanks a lot. Of course, you can listen to him on the Apple TV broadcast on Sunday. Sounders, Rapids. ah Thanks for doing this, Steve. Take care, Jeremiah. Stop by, please, in the booth. Bye-bye.
01:17:11
Speaker
Absolutely.
01:17:14
Speaker
Welcome back to Nos Adiates. Hopefully you enjoyed that Steve Cangelosi interview. I think he gave some good insight on what the Sounders are going to be facing this weekend against the Colorado Rapids.
01:17:25
Speaker
All right. So i We've talked about that. Nico and I have talked about the Obed Vargas situation a lot. I was able to finally put some of that in print. ah The broad details that what I was able to confirm are that the Sounders got $2.5 million up front, essentially, for or guaranteed for Obed Vargas.
01:17:46
Speaker
And then they keep 40% of his his Potential transfer, which is lot, which is a whole lot. In fact, it's so much that Atletico Madrid has the option to buy back essentially half of that for another one point five million dollars. They have to do it, I believe, by ah within a year.
01:18:06
Speaker
they have ah an ah an option to buy that at 1.5 you have to assume that they would exercise that especially if obet is playing for them and doing all kinds of other stuff because that's ah you know it's a relatively cheap option that they can buy ah so that would leave the sounders with four million dollars and 20 of a sell-on and then there's some other incentives But then I also got into some of the other details about this transfer. And I think it was important to bring to light that this was not a totally simple thing, because I think there was starting to be some perception that it was like this fell on the sounders lap and they just, you know, they

Negotiation Challenges and Resolutions

01:18:41
Speaker
kind of lucked out. But from this, I can tell. And i don't know, maybe you've heard the same thing, Nico, or something different.
01:18:46
Speaker
There was still a lot of work to do to actually get this over the line. There was. There was from the very beginning. There was a lot of people to please when it came to getting the deal done. um i do think that...
01:19:03
Speaker
essentially his representation painted this deal their way and the Sanders being the club, I don't think that they have necessarily been able to say otherwise, but I think both you and I with information that we've gathered have seen that it was the Sanders who ultimately put this thing together, kept it together, kept it ink kept it in the negotiating table because it was ah very easily for this thing to fall apart. Yeah. and ah And it seems and I don't want to paint anyone with too negative of a brush because the reality is that Obed's agent was doing his job.
01:19:41
Speaker
Obed's family was looking out for Obed and Obed was, you know, also looking out for himself. And I think everyone was sort of behaving rationally as far as whose interest was front of mind.
01:19:56
Speaker
But I do think it led to some, you know, like at one point, Obed's agent basically was telling prospective teams, don't worry about a transfer fee. He's going to be a free agent at the end of 2025. That was never true. He had an option.
01:20:11
Speaker
FIFA has over and over again upheld those as much as player agents don't like it. And as much as as anti-competitive and as you know, we can get into the the the the fairness of team options. The reality is that FIFA has upheld them and the cases where teams have ignored the team option or that ah team players have ignored the team option and it ends up costing the the the future team more money because they end up having to pay fair market value anyway. We've seen this kind of play out. And in some ways, I think Obed probably got lucky that that didn't get pushed to the boundary because if
01:20:50
Speaker
For one, I don't know that a club like Atletico Madrid is still interested because they, first of all, know the they know the deal. ah But they if they had signed them, they might have ended having to pay like ten million dollars instead of two point five million dollars.
01:21:02
Speaker
ah So it ends up being, I think, better for everyone's interest. But I don't know. Can you share a little bit about what you've heard on the inside? Because I know you've talked to Obed's people a little bit more over the last couple years.
01:21:14
Speaker
There seemed to be some real frustration on their end that the Sounders weren't doing enough to get a deal done. Yes. So without obviously oversharing things that I'm not necessarily in in light to share, i will say that there there was a clear conversation ah with those around Ovid Vargas that at one point after he came back from his U-20 participation with the United States youth national team, youth twenty that they believed that there was going to be a a deal
01:21:54
Speaker
either um put on on on the negotiating table or that he was going to get an offer. But that, according to what I hear on their side, is that that never happened, that the Sounders never um even acknowledged that they just kind of kicked the can for the next year. And then for the next year, they had decided, they had made themselves ah with this new plan of,
01:22:19
Speaker
If we're going to go either, you know, they if they're not going to extend this now, which is not going to make an extension. And we're going to try to figure out where we can put Obed. There's obviously a great deal of confidence from their end. And Obed Bargat's within himself where they knew that he was going to eventually be in Europe. And that was something that he never realized.
01:22:41
Speaker
you know, veered away from that was always his plan. His plan it was, I'm not going anywhere other than Europe. He had an objective. I praise him for that objective, but I think along the way there became this tension between since you guys didn't make it happen when we thought you guys were going to make it happen. Now we're going to drive it wherever we needed to drive it. And In between that, then you added the fact that they, Ovid and family decided that we're going to get new representation. And that's where we've talked about this before. The sounder said, okay, go find a representation. It's going to take you, what, six, seven, eight months to get representation. So we're not going worry about negotiations. They allow them that. And then once this new... representation because it's like a firm they came to back up uh obit vargas he became even more of of a difficult situation because they had an objective they knew that they could put him somewhere else and thankfully for everyone involved this resolved in the best possible way and a lot of the credit has to go to the sounders
01:23:45
Speaker
Yeah, and I think if there's second guessing to be done, you do have to go all the way back to 2023 when Obed was coming out of the U-20 World Cup where he was the second youngest player on the U-20 team.
01:23:59
Speaker
And, you know, he was not necessarily a star at that tournament, but he showed that he could play at a much he had already shown that he could play at a much higher level. Now, I'm sure from the sounders perspective, they're looking at this like <unk> he's 17. Like, what do you want us to do? Like, how much money are we supposed to throw at this guy when he's 17?
01:24:18
Speaker
But from Obed's perspective, he's already proven what he needs to prove. and And so I think that if you're if you really want to zero in on when this whole thing fell apart, I think it is important to see it because you can really see it from both sides.
01:24:32
Speaker
At 2023, where he's coming out of the U-20 World Cup saying, hey, I just played in the U-20 World Cup. This is a new benchmark. Why am I not? I deserve something coming out of this.
01:24:43
Speaker
And from the Sounders perspective, they're like, bro, we got you on a contract for three more years. Like, let's let's let this thing settle down. And by the time the thing settled down, the whole situation was different.
01:24:55
Speaker
And I think that that if there's something that the Sounders learned from this, it's that you can't afford to just say, we've got you under contract for X more years. We don't want to talk about this. If there is a, and ah especially because he was on what, something at the time.
01:25:12
Speaker
I think that that probably warranted some negotiation. And, you know, there was probably some naivety on the Sounders part, too, where they were saying, you know, ah at least during the period where he wasn't, you know, where he was looking for representation and they sort of backed off.
01:25:27
Speaker
That's probably a little too passive. Absolutely. And that's part of it before. Because I want to hear Tim's point on this. I definitely think that. they were the sounders were a bit too conservative and maybe by design because they're looking at their budget their salary cap the players that need to come in come out but being able to make a call on a on a talent that i think we all knew where it was going it is a if not a mistake is an oversee or whatever it could be and then when he said when when they asked to get a representation you should have known that if they got a shark, it was going to be even more difficult than they got a shark. Yeah.
01:26:08
Speaker
I think the, you know, it's not really worth trying to dig into the roster machinations involved at that point in 2023, but,
01:26:20
Speaker
I think another potentially complicating factor at that point is that he's a 17 year old who in the last year had a broken back yeah that at that age, you don't know how that's going to inhibit his growth and physical development. You don't know if it's going to have lasting repercussions. I think it's, they also didn't have a U22. It should be noted. they They did not have an open U22 spot at the same time, but go on. i don't want It's, it's just much easier.
01:26:50
Speaker
sitting here in 2026, looking back and being like, well, obviously why, why didn't they just secure him? Then when, rest of all why, when they signed him to his first homegrown deal, didn't they offer him a million dollars for 10 years? Like,
01:27:07
Speaker
You know, I, I ah you think they, within the restraints they place upon themselves of, as far as we're the Seattle Sounders and this is how we act. This is how we treat players.
01:27:22
Speaker
This is how we engage, whatever. They only had so many ways that they could go about it. And to both of your points, I think, it worked out just about as well as it possibly could have, because even if they had done all of the things perfectly correct and Atletico buys him for $10 million dollars this off season, instead of two and a half with okay other incentives and add-ons, whatever, Saunders couldn't have spent that.
01:27:57
Speaker
Right. I mean, that's the thing is like, it's, I think it it does bear repeating in the end, it all worked out. It worked out almost perfectly for everyone involved. Maybe everyone's feelings weren't where they wanted them to be. You know, I know that there's people in the Sounders office that have these same mixed emotions that and on one hand, look good for the kid.
01:28:15
Speaker
He's where he needs to be good for us. We show that we can move someone to Atletico Madrid. we have ah We have a succession plan. We you know we can go out and and find and try to find the next Obed Vargas.
01:28:28
Speaker
We don't have as much money in our pocket, but that money was going into ownership's pocket anyway. and you know, it would have been up to them how to spend it. And hopefully the next time the sounders need to spend a bunch of money, ownership is willing to open the wallet and spend it. And and I think that is sort of like a good place to end the discussion on. It ended in the right place.
01:28:48
Speaker
It did. I called the move masterful. And I do mean it that way because it was done in a short amount of time. It varied the possibility of falling apart and you got the best scenario for the player and the team. And yes, maybe the the money component wasn't as big, but it was so much more than what you wouldn't have gotten if you didn't get that deal done right at the end of things, right at the end of the cutoff line, you were able to push that through. And that's why I call it masterful.
01:29:20
Speaker
i I think one other thing that has come to mind a couple times for me around this deal, especially since your piece published Jeremiah is that, um, We know in MLS clubs who are a pain in the ass to deal with for other clubs in a player market sense don't get dealt with because it's not worth the hassle for all that football covers the whole globe.
01:29:48
Speaker
It's still a relatively small world, especially once you move into the upper echelons, all of those clubs know each other, know the agents, whatever,
01:29:59
Speaker
if you and your agent get a reputation for being difficult to deal with, it makes the rest of your career just that much more difficult. I think the fact that for all that it was tumultuous, that it reached a completion without too much effort,
01:30:21
Speaker
Difficulty or nonsense, even if there may have been some, i think, again, the nonsense that happened was well within the range of normal. Sure. um But I think, you know, that it didn't become a protracted thing. That's a huge distraction. Right. The deal got done.

Conclusion and Sign-Offs

01:30:39
Speaker
i think, again, works to everyone's favor. Absolutely. Well, I think that's probably a good place to to call this. You can, of course, follow Nico on Blue Sky at ElRoloNW.
01:30:50
Speaker
ah You can see him on soccer down here. He's still doing Lobbing Scorchers. Tim Foss, you can read on Sounder Heart. He just started Backpost Runners, which is a really awesome addition, I think, to the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network. Thank you guys for doing this.
01:31:05
Speaker
I am Jeremiah Oshan signing off for Nos Audietes, part of the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network. We'll catch you next time.
01:31:43
Speaker
Let's go at Sounders.