Transcript
Speaker: Hi everyone, my name is Adam Price.
Speaker: And I'm Emily Jane Acree.
Speaker: And you're listening to the Relative Rhythms Podcast.
Speaker: This is the third and final episode in our three-part series on cruise ship work.
Speaker: Today we're focusing on the life of a cruise ship dancer.
Speaker: This episode, I interviewed two friends who I worked very closely with on board during my last contract.
Speaker: Mitchell Thomas McCrone and Alexandra Cooney.
Speaker: Both are phenomenal dancers and all-around amazing people.
Speaker: I popped this on them very last minute, and they were so gracious in agreeing to chat.
Speaker: We recorded this down-and-dirty episode in the dressing room backstage on the shift.
Speaker: We talk about the typical day of a dancer on board, how to get the gig, the differences between dancers and musicians, some of the pros and cons of the gig, and general advice for dancers interested in this work.
Speaker: Many of our episodes in the past have been specific to percussive dance, but in our larger goal of bringing music and dance together, we wanted to give some ideas on what is possible, especially for dance students who really enjoy all genres and styles.
Speaker: If you haven't listened to the previous two episodes in this series, make sure you catch them as well.
Speaker: And so, without further ado, please welcome to the podcast, Alexandra Cooney and Mitchell McCrone.
Speaker: Music
Speaker: Mitchell, Alex, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker: Thank you so much for doing this.
Speaker: For having us.
Speaker: Yeah, thank you.
Speaker: To start in, would you guys, maybe Mitchell, you can go first.
Speaker: Just tell me, give me a quick backstory about how you started dancing and how you first got a job on a cruise ship.
Speaker: I started dancing when I was four.
Speaker: I used to make up dances with my sister.
Speaker: They didn't know what to do with me, so they took me to dance class.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: And my first job on a cruise ship, I had sort of been doing...
Speaker: contract job on land for like seven years the same one which was very tough on my body and I had asked a friend I want to do a really easy job do you still perform do you know any he said oh I've just done this contract on the ship they really like me we can just go and do it together he was my best friend so we just did the contract together and it was
Speaker: Hard dancing but a much nicer lifestyle for me.
Speaker: So it was much kinder on my body.
Speaker: Nice.
Speaker: Yeah, so that's how I got into it.
Speaker: Alex?
Speaker: Um, so when I was two years old, I went to see my sister perform in her recital and like terrible two phase, you know, like screaming, crying, but, um, they were worried they couldn't find a babysitter.
Speaker: So they had me sit on my dad's lap.
Speaker: And for the whole duration of the, um, recital, I didn't budge.
Speaker: I was mesmerized.
Speaker: And for that moment, I knew that that's what I wanted to do for the rest of my life.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: Um, and my first,
Speaker: Cruise ship contract was my first professional job ever and I was at a college that actually they wanted you to graduate before you got a job and I was auditioning on the side just every week to just try and get out because I really wanted to do this and I auditioned while I was in school and I took the job.
Speaker: When I got it that's the start of my trajectory.
Speaker: Yeah, so Can you guys explain to me what a kind of typical day for a dancer on board looks like?
Speaker: Typically speaking
Speaker: on certain ships it's different.
Speaker: Sometimes you have different duties, more duties, less duties, but typically you wake up like 10 or 11, you get off the ship, you get to see the most amazing sights and
Speaker: enjoy a lot of time off and then you come back on and you do a tech run and then you have dinner, you have lunch before that by the way and
Speaker: Then you start getting ready for the show, you warm up, you do your show, and then you have a late night dinner, and then you go to sleep, or sometimes you can go to Crew Bar and have a little nightcap.
Speaker: And yeah, it's pretty typical.
Speaker: If you have a duty, then you have that throughout the day and you have to come back on board.
Speaker: Or if there's a sea day, you have sometimes more duties.
Speaker: But it's a pretty easy lifestyle for dancers, I will say.
Speaker: What kind of extra duties are we talking about?
Speaker: Embarkation.
Speaker: Yeah, embarkation.
Speaker: Most ships.
Speaker: Generally, you could do art.
Speaker: Some ships sell art and you work for the art.
Speaker: Yeah, I was a Bobble Girl once.
Speaker: A Bobble Girl?
Speaker: Bobble Girl.
Speaker: Bobble Girl.
Speaker: It's like with the auctioneers, you write down the numbers.
Speaker: Oh, my goodness.
Speaker: So you can do that.
Speaker: Typically, you can do extra things and you can get paid well if you want to.
Speaker: There's opportunities for you to do those things.
Speaker: But embarkation...
Speaker: duty, just bringing the guests on.
Speaker: On certain ships, you have to party.
Speaker: I danced for two hours outside in the sun at times.
Speaker: One random duty that I had on a ship, it was the Jimmy Buffett
Speaker: like pool deck moment and we literally were just walking around with floats just moving them while the music was playing just to like give them a little bit of a... A little ambience.
Speaker: Yeah, a little ambience.
Speaker: A ambience.
Speaker: Like the most random duties ever.
Speaker: Trivia is pretty common.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, each line's different.
Speaker: I know some are very heavy, like sometimes...
Speaker: on ships you are literally everything.
Speaker: Like you're... Crew staff, basically.
Speaker: Yeah, you do crew staff and shows.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It just depends on each contract.
Speaker: It's very different.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: I know I'm not giving names, I won't give names, but like I know like one of our dancers has done a contract where he, the shows are incredible, but like he would wake up and work all day and like that would be like hosting the golf tournament into a trivia which he would host and he would keep score for each day between because they'd be on teams and so they would
Speaker: tally the schools at the end of the cruise and that people would win stuff.
Speaker: They would do so much of the stuff.
Speaker: Shuffleboard.
Speaker: Shuffleboard was a big one.
Speaker: Weird.
Speaker: Just like lots of stuff.
Speaker: Like if a table needed setting up, like
Speaker: they were doing yeah like it's really different each cruise line and it's um i think it generally depends on what the company is putting into entertainment at the time i think it's it's it's like a malleable state for each company interesting yeah so like like the same company 10 years later
Speaker: The contract will be a completely new rewrite-up and the people that are running the show will think that, well, dancers need to be doing this.
Speaker: They'll just see us as extra bodies and just be like, let's use them.
Speaker: So it's very different on each line and each contract.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: One of my lines that I worked on in 2019, actually,
Speaker: There was an outbreak where you have code green, code yellow, and code red.
Speaker: We were in code red and we couldn't go to any of the restaurants or anything.
Speaker: And we had cleaning duties every single day.
Speaker: That's common.
Speaker: Which is, yeah, it is common.
Speaker: We had to do that on one of my contracts.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like, it was awful.
Speaker: Yeah, it took you away from it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And like, yeah, it was like really intense for like two months at a time.
Speaker: Like we would be in code red and it would just happen again.
Speaker: And our duties would have to be to clean the theater and clean the tables.
Speaker: And yeah, so it happens.
Speaker: But it's crazy because it was before
Speaker: COVID-19 was so we were like we were code red quite a lot that's maybe it had something to do with that um they were just extra it was extra yeah and then also our security uh where the survival boat duties which all entertainers generally have to do on most ships guest drill crew drill right like we're part of the evacuation group yeah which is generally because
Speaker: we're bubbly, so they think we're good at talking to people.
Speaker: No, literally, like we have a face.
Speaker: They think we're good at talking to people.
Speaker: Friendly faces.
Speaker: We are.
Speaker: They're very kind.
Speaker: Okay, can you give me like, again, not naming names or anything, but like a range of salary for a typical dancer?
Speaker: Like across lines?
Speaker: It's wide.
Speaker: It's a wide range?
Speaker: I feel like it would even go down to like 1,000 something.
Speaker: Yeah, 1,500.
Speaker: 1,500 a month?
Speaker: A month.
Speaker: Yeah, it's bad on some lines.
Speaker: And then...
Speaker: that's crazy it can go up to probably so um the highest one i've heard just as like a pure dancer is like 5 000. wow which is that's a huge range yeah yeah it's wild and
Speaker: Yeah, it just depends on where the company's at and what they're willing to spend.
Speaker: But also for you, as a dancer, what you're willing to sacrifice if you want the contract with the shows that you're not getting a lot of money, then go for that.
Speaker: If you want the contract with the itinerary, then you go for that.
Speaker: You go for the one with pay.
Speaker: There's give and take with everything that you take.
Speaker: Yeah, I was on a company, my first company, the Easy Job, the shows were incredible, but it would be considered on the lower end, and it's a very big line.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But, like, the...
Speaker: I would say the pay doesn't match the level they're expecting and they had this cult following, which is another thing.
Speaker: We're very lucky because a lot of people that come where we are have been everywhere.
Speaker: But a lot of people stick with their line and develop a cult following.
Speaker: And they think they're the best.
Speaker: They always talk about us as they're the best.
Speaker: I've worked for a lot of lines and I think the most I've gotten is in the 4000s and the least I think was in the 15th.
Speaker: Yeah, it's like... It's not really a livable wage.
Speaker: You really sort of take those... I think a lot of times those are like entry level.
Speaker: Like you're trying to break your way into an industry and you don't know which way to go.
Speaker: So you sort of, from what I've heard, that's like something you do.
Speaker: You might take that...
Speaker: We're paying.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Just to get in.
Speaker: Sadly, I mean, this doesn't involve shifts, but like with gigs and just opportunities that aren't paid, they always say, you know, it's just it's for your resume or whatever.
Speaker: But at the end of the day, you need to make a living.
Speaker: Of course.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like random but facts for the Super Bowl, the dancers in the past couple of years or maybe two years ago, we found out that they don't get paid.
Speaker: The dancers in the Super Bowl don't get paid.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: They just do it for the, like getting their name out there and publicity.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: So if you dance for the Super Bowl, then you can get any gig ever afterwards, right?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Everyone wants you to teach them and stuff like that.
Speaker: My friend, she did the Beyonce one and she was like, oh yeah, like they hired all of us and we never got paid.
Speaker: And I was like,
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: That's wild.
Speaker: Yeah, it is wild.
Speaker: I wonder where all that money's going, though.
Speaker: Because all those commercials, all those people are making bank.
Speaker: Someone's making lots of money.
Speaker: You know what I mean?
Speaker: That's crazy that the dancers aren't making anything.
Speaker: The hype team is always doing it.
Speaker: That is interesting, but that's a side note.
Speaker: Wow, that's crazy.
Speaker: I didn't know that.
Speaker: So how long is a typical contract for a dancer?
Speaker: Shifts typically six months.
Speaker: Six months of a month or two.
Speaker: Like a month on top of that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's like typical.
Speaker: Typical six month contract.
Speaker: On certain lines, they can do nine to ten month contracts with two months rehearsals.
Speaker: So you're out away for 11 months.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: There's a few lines doing too many.
Speaker: one or two lines doing that at the moment.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because I think their shows are very specialty.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Musicals.
Speaker: A lot of musicals.
Speaker: Musicals have longer contracts.
Speaker: I feel like it's not hard to find people, but it always is hard.
Speaker: Especially if you want to be gone for that long, whether you're in New York or wherever you are, like that is a commitment to take you away from your home.
Speaker: Anytime you take away from
Speaker: Like if you wanted to be on Broadway and you take yourself out of any scene.
Speaker: It's like you have to restart again from the beginning.
Speaker: Yeah, had to get back in.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker: But yeah, I would say typically six months.
Speaker: Some are four.
Speaker: And I've had a five.
Speaker: I've had a replacement that was two.
Speaker: So it just depends.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But typically six.
Speaker: And do you guys go through an agency or you go direct through a company to the cruise line?
Speaker: Directly through the cruise line.
Speaker: I've been an independent agent doing it, just going auditions and sending reels since the beginning.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: So I had an agent when I first started performing.
Speaker: Well, I didn't.
Speaker: I feel like for this sort of work, you shouldn't take an agent.
Speaker: If this is where you're going to do contract work, you're going to enjoy your life.
Speaker: It's a very great life.
Speaker: I just feel like you should never get an agent, like for me personally.
Speaker: as a dancer.
Speaker: Because it's a lot of times the contracts are set in stone for dancers.
Speaker: There is no negotiation and a lot of that negotiation is done by you on your next contract.
Speaker: Not by your agent.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: So it ends up, you end up doing the work.
Speaker: So I, when I started, I had been given a period of time where I was on probation with an agency.
Speaker: They were like, you can put us down and we'll organize things.
Speaker: And so I
Speaker: hadn't been, I think I went for one musical audition with them and then I saw like a theme park audition and I did that.
Speaker: And I got it but I put them down.
Speaker: So then they went through all of them but then it was, the contracts are so set in stone like there really was, you either sign it or you don't.
Speaker: Which in the end of the day is like they didn't do anything for me
Speaker: And you know, it's just, it's kind of, it becomes like a pyramid scheme at that point in my brain.
Speaker: So I just think contract work is actually so easy to find online.
Speaker: It's all done online now.
Speaker: Like most of the companies have online submissions.
Speaker: And then if they like you, they'll ask you to an in-house.
Speaker: audition.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: Sometimes they don't even ask for that.
Speaker: They see your stuff and that's what happened to me with my first cruise ship.
Speaker: I just sent my stuff and they're like, yeah, yeah, come.
Speaker: Because I'd already worked six years, seven years.
Speaker: In the business, yeah.
Speaker: So once you're already in, it's very easy to be like, oh, this...
Speaker: This person's already got reputable venture.
Speaker: Especially because I had done the same gig for six years at a gig where they don't generally hire people back multiple times.
Speaker: It was a sign that I was very competent.
Speaker: So like your resume and a good reel is often better than an in-person audition at
Speaker: I haven't auditioned since I was really 18.
Speaker: It becomes a whole different life once you start.
Speaker: Especially in the contract world.
Speaker: I will say, with my dance reel, I got half my jobs with it.
Speaker: And the other half was in-person auditioning.
Speaker: I think that with agencies and an agent,
Speaker: like Mitchell said, ship life you can do without, but like if you wanted to do a really cool SNL skit or if you wanted to, if there are other opportunities that you cannot get unless you have an agent.
Speaker: So certain situations, but definitely with ships.
Speaker: It depends on your aspirations.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's totally doable without one.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What would you say the best part of working on a ship is as a dancer?
Speaker: the lifestyle.
Speaker: Amazing.
Speaker: It's the best.
Speaker: It's incredible.
Speaker: You don't have to pay for the food, your housing, electricity, like nothing.
Speaker: You wake up in a different port every day, a different country every day.
Speaker: And the itinerary.
Speaker: We do.
Speaker: Like some people.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Some people don't have time to get off.
Speaker: We the thing is, as a dancer, we do always have time to get off.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: I will never not say that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We have a lot of time.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Which is why we take these contracts.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because we know that we're able to actually experience the world.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: What would you say the suckiest part about this gig is?
Speaker: I think for me it's... And this, I think, has just... It has changed like now, like back in a few years from now, I probably wouldn't have thought the same thing, but right now it's missing out on your...
Speaker: family weddings and birthdays and like the sacrifice that you make to be here for people that don't know you like and people that you really want to hang out with and spend time with and grow up with it's the sacrifice sometimes it's just not worth it you know I would say that's something I would think as well I also I personally hate
Speaker: I've always hated this.
Speaker: And it's been on every cruise line, but it happens less on bigger ships.
Speaker: So if smaller ships where you have a lot of the same people returning all the time, it's more... I feel like people, if you're in separate jobs, a lot of times they compare
Speaker: what your workload looks like to theirs and they take it personally and then they often treat you badly.
Speaker: Yeah, poorly.
Speaker: And like some people are really good at navigating that.
Speaker: Like I am not great at navigating that.
Speaker: I think a lot of people are able to
Speaker: put that aside and then kill, we talked about it today, kill people with kindness and then they're able to push through and then still make those connections.
Speaker: Whereas I like immediately retract.
Speaker: And so like half of my, most of my benefits like
Speaker: I don't use like, like I don't, like we're allowed to go eat in public areas where the food is much nicer.
Speaker: It is so much nicer and we're allowed to go to dinners.
Speaker: We've been very lucky on our current contract to have those opportunities, but I often find myself like,
Speaker: hiding away and um like it's unfortunate it's sad because it's uh it's one of the nice things about a gig is that we have those benefits but simply by using them i'm often looked down upon made to feel really awful about it and it's hard to navigate that and i'm not good at navigating it so i often like
Speaker: I hide away.
Speaker: I mean, me looking like this today, like I had somebody already say, oh, did you just wake up?
Speaker: It's like, of course I look like this and I look crazy today, but that it's when I don't look crazy, people are like, did you just wake up?
Speaker: And it will be like 6 p.m.
Speaker: and I'll just have pants on because in the mess, we're not allowed to wear
Speaker: Anything covering we have to cover our knees so I'll wear a sweatshirt and pants and everyone thinks that I'm in my pajamas But I'm not I'm just trying to eat dinner just like they are you know what I mean?
Speaker: But we're treated so differently and just respected in that way because I would never I would never say that to someone it just wouldn't but they have the audacity every single time to say it to us.
Speaker: Yeah Do you find that comes more from?
Speaker: like
Speaker: fellow crew members or more from like higher stripe?
Speaker: Well I think it's a trickle down thing.
Speaker: So I think each department acts the way the people that lead them lead them to act.
Speaker: I think that's with every job.
Speaker: I think
Speaker: If a leading person says, do not treat anyone who works for this company in this way, always treat them like this, then it'll work.
Speaker: I feel like stuff like that always comes from leadership.
Speaker: Interesting.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: that yeah, I would have to agree with that statement.
Speaker: But not everyone is like that.
Speaker: No, there's lovely people everywhere.
Speaker: There's a lot of people that don't act like that.
Speaker: But it's just like, there's always three or four.
Speaker: And they tend to, I feel like people like that tend to garner power somehow.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then... It's funny how that happens.
Speaker: It's so funny.
Speaker: It's like this sort of archetypal personality type has this same like...
Speaker: look down on people, treat people bad, but brown-nosed the people that they need to and then get ahead but then as the higher they go it just gets weirder and weirder and the tensions get weirder and weirder and I go like this, I shake and I hide in my room.
Speaker: I do a lot of hiding in my room.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: For sure.
Speaker: I mean, yeah.
Speaker: Just to avoid it.
Speaker: The walking on the eggshells thing.
Speaker: It's not worth it.
Speaker: It's not worth it for me.
Speaker: Sometimes it's like, oh, I don't want to walk down the I-95 because like... Yeah.
Speaker: I know.
Speaker: You just think that someone's going to like give you a funny look and you're like, oh God, I can't even handle it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Don't even look at me.
Speaker: Because on ships you can't really escape.
Speaker: And that's the difference between being on land and being, like you have a job on land and then you go home and then you are hanging out with your people and then the next day you see them again.
Speaker: But you have a whole bunch of time where you didn't see those people and you got to refresh.
Speaker: But here...
Speaker: Yeah, we do everything together always, all the time, so no matter what you're gonna see somebody on the I-95 that doesn't like the way you look or is just like gonna say something sassy and... Yeah.
Speaker: Entertainers, I've thought about this as a musician as well.
Speaker: Entertainers, especially on ships somehow, it's this weird...
Speaker: position where like you're you're both looked up to in certain ways but also really looked down upon as an entertainer yeah your your job is to facilitate a party facilitate happiness and enjoyment yeah and if you're not doing that if i look grumpy on stage all the time i would get yelled at yeah but because i'm looking happy on stage people think i'm just doing nothing all the time
Speaker: Yeah, we make it look easy.
Speaker: The whole point is make it look easy.
Speaker: And then they really believe you.
Speaker: Right, exactly.
Speaker: They're like, oh, you do nothing all day long.
Speaker: What are you doing here?
Speaker: Meanwhile, we like wake up and we're like, oh, I have a back today.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker: Yeah, that's a perfect statement.
Speaker: It's so true.
Speaker: And it's so wild because the whole idea of cruise ships is to go on a holiday and have it be a full package with entertainment and dinners.
Speaker: And it's all it's literally about the whole thing is about entertainment.
Speaker: Oh, absolutely.
Speaker: Going to sea.
Speaker: Without us, it'd be boring.
Speaker: The whole idea is that you're going to see ports and learn about things.
Speaker: It's all about filling your brain with experiences and yes, to have a ship like imagine we had like nine sea days.
Speaker: Last cruise.
Speaker: Eight sea days.
Speaker: Imagine no sharks.
Speaker: What are you going to do?
Speaker: Just eat.
Speaker: And that's it.
Speaker: And food is good.
Speaker: You've got to take a break.
Speaker: You've got to see some people.
Speaker: You've got to do stuff.
Speaker: It's a weird oxymoron or something.
Speaker: It's very strange.
Speaker: This is the Relative Rhythms podcast and you're listening to our episode on being a cruise ship dancer.
Speaker: If you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave a review wherever you are listening.
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Speaker: Go to relative rhythms.com.
Speaker: Thanks for listening.
Speaker: And now back to our conversation with Mitchell and Alex.
Speaker: So you took a break from ships for a while.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Did you or are you straight through?
Speaker: I go on and off.
Speaker: I've always gone on and off.
Speaker: I'll do a few ships then I'll do a land.
Speaker: A few ships and a land.
Speaker: I cannot just do ship ship ship ship.
Speaker: I will lose my mind.
Speaker: Yeah for sure.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: Why do you come back?
Speaker: I'll go first.
Speaker: Okay so for me
Speaker: I had decided to leave because I wasn't really... Didn't feel a good gel with my cast.
Speaker: And the way the system worked is that...
Speaker: cast is there forever.
Speaker: I was on a kind of this one-of-a-kind contract which is really incredible with the right cast but when you're not gelling it just doesn't work.
Speaker: And COVID was hitting and it just sort of put a stop in my dancing and I was just like I won't do anything so I stopped for four years
Speaker: and I worked normal jobs.
Speaker: I was a houseman at a hotel.
Speaker: I packed shelves.
Speaker: I didn't dance for two years at all.
Speaker: I didn't even take a class.
Speaker: Just was like burnt out.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And pretty much hated dancing.
Speaker: But then I sort of realized I was really unhappy.
Speaker: I was getting fatter and fatter.
Speaker: Sadder and sadder.
Speaker: And dance, really, I didn't realize.
Speaker: I'd had danced since I was four, like I said.
Speaker: And I'd never not danced.
Speaker: I'd taken like maybe a year off or two years max before.
Speaker: And so I started with joining adult gymnastics class, getting my body in shape.
Speaker: And then I just, then I started teaching dance again.
Speaker: And then teaching dance is actually one of the hardest jobs I've ever done.
Speaker: Looking after children in any capacity is awful.
Speaker: Not awful, but like it's rewarding, but it is hard.
Speaker: Mentally draining.
Speaker: It is hard.
Speaker: Like you do, you never, in any capacity, you never get to leave your job.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Like, especially with dance teaching, you'll be either making up a dance, you'll be thinking about, oh, who needs to improve?
Speaker: Like, I need to be focusing on them on this.
Speaker: You're always taking notes.
Speaker: And then I just got to a sort of point where I just felt like, why would I keep doing this when I could just go and dance and have no worries?
Speaker: And it was the best decision I made.
Speaker: because I was just always so stressed on land.
Speaker: I find it such, it's a very big battle on land to fight for your dreams.
Speaker: I think with anything that you're doing, fighting for what you love, like I like to choreograph, so I was trying to choreograph and do lots of stuff.
Speaker: I just felt like I never had any time off, and I was just panicked.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So my, usually when I do these contracts, it's about like,
Speaker: recuperating from trauma and hard work.
Speaker: How about you?
Speaker: Well, it's weird because I'm kind of going through something right now, but I feel like I
Speaker: am grateful for job security.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And knowing that and being my own agent for so long and to be, um, finishing a contract with a different company and not knowing when I was going to have a job again and just like
Speaker: you know, trying to make ends meet and doing these random gigs and being statue models, like whatever it was.
Speaker: And I was very resourceful.
Speaker: I'm a very resourceful person.
Speaker: But the job security is really what keeps bringing me back.
Speaker: Yeah, I would say that's the big one.
Speaker: I will also say that I always want to perform.
Speaker: I've never really wanted to be a dance teacher or a choreographer.
Speaker: I don't think my stuff is good enough for that.
Speaker: It's just not my artistry.
Speaker: I love taking class.
Speaker: I love being a student.
Speaker: So I miss the freedom of taking class and being on land in that sense.
Speaker: But
Speaker: performing on a ship while traveling the world is kind of like the trifecta for me.
Speaker: I feel like I have everything that I want all at once.
Speaker: And yeah, I think...
Speaker: as long as I still love performing and still love traveling, then I'm going to be here.
Speaker: It's when I lose my love for dance or my love for travel, that's when I know that I'm going to need to go back on land.
Speaker: Gotcha.
Speaker: Which I, if you want my honest situation, I feel like that will happen sooner rather than later.
Speaker: Because the longest I've been on a ship,
Speaker: was like two and a half years and then I really needed... I just know.
Speaker: My body knows and my mind knows.
Speaker: My heart knows.
Speaker: So... Yeah.
Speaker: But job security would be the reason why I keep coming back.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So each ship has their own kind of library of cast shows, dance shows.
Speaker: And everyone just does them.
Speaker: Every cruise...
Speaker: Do you guys ever like... Get sick of it?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I... I'm kind of new back here, but it's... I've come back...
Speaker: to the same company.
Speaker: To the same shows.
Speaker: And it's the same shows from back then, which is crazy to me.
Speaker: But I think that's the thing with anything where you're performing.
Speaker: You just, if you're in a musical, you're doing the same thing over and over again.
Speaker: It's just the same battle no matter what you do.
Speaker: If you're in a show,
Speaker: I mean Broadway.
Speaker: You're just doing the same show.
Speaker: We actually have more variety than most people because we have more than one show.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: Whereas most gigs are just like one show.
Speaker: Whereas cruise ships you often do
Speaker: 2, 3, 4, 5.
Speaker: Say 2 was the, actually 1, I did a contract where 1 is the minimum and I would say 6 is the maximum from my experience.
Speaker: Well, on here we used to do 8 or 9.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, it was a totally different contract back then.
Speaker: But going back to that thing, like contracts are different.
Speaker: Yeah, true.
Speaker: Yeah, very.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think that shows need to be, if something's been in a company for longer than 10 years, it needs to change.
Speaker: Or it needs to be revamped.
Speaker: I just think if you, depending on your clientele, if you have a lot of returning people, I don't think it's valuable.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Rework it, give it a new spin or I don't know.
Speaker: I remember on other ships there were bumpers that we would do and it would basically just be like a five minute dance to hype up the party before the party began.
Speaker: Interesting.
Speaker: and one of the dances was like 30 years old and my guests would come up and be like, you're still doing that?
Speaker: Like, it's like, it was like, yeah, we are, we are, needs to change.
Speaker: We love it, we love it.
Speaker: But like in those moments you're just like, yeah, like let's update.
Speaker: You're like respecting the history.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: These were iconic legends that created this.
Speaker: These are rituals.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: They're indoctrination for you.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: We're paying tribute.
Speaker: Thank you, mother.
Speaker: Thank you, Lady Gaga.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But if we had it our way, we would definitely have revamped, updated, fabulous.
Speaker: Every year, new number.
Speaker: There are certain ships that nail that.
Speaker: I will say they nail that.
Speaker: And their music is up to date and exciting.
Speaker: There are a few very exciting companies at the moment.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Are you guys thinking about moving?
Speaker: Yes, I did.
Speaker: To a more exciting company?
Speaker: No.
Speaker: I've just come back here.
Speaker: Yeah, you do.
Speaker: You work for them.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, I would like, in the future.
Speaker: Yeah, future for sure.
Speaker: I think I'd like to finish on a really good quality, hard, something that really tests me.
Speaker: The challenge.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: At the moment, the challenge is...
Speaker: It's hard to find here.
Speaker: It's because the shows at the moment have been the same for a while.
Speaker: So there was an updated version of one of our shows, as we all know.
Speaker: And it is exciting, and it's one of my new favorite shows because of that reason.
Speaker: But yeah, I think that as artists, we always want to grow.
Speaker: And it's tricky.
Speaker: And you know what it is?
Speaker: There is sort of at the moment, not for all companies, but there's sort of a style of show that is just they're always the same on each ship.
Speaker: It's the same.
Speaker: Like they just take them from each other.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I just feel like that's kind of sad.
Speaker: Like, yeah.
Speaker: I feel like we're better than that.
Speaker: I mean, I don't know, but I know some choreographers be getting paid like $30,000 to do some of these shows.
Speaker: We're just revamping the same thing.
Speaker: And it might be the same concept.
Speaker: And they might use half the same choreography.
Speaker: I mean, don't find me.
Speaker: I don't want to get in trouble.
Speaker: But I just feel like if you're going to spend the money, an idea is...
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's easy to have ideas.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Make it work.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Try something different.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Try something new.
Speaker: The original.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But there's a need for that, for consistency, but I think spice things up.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Have something different that's going to be like, wow, that's interesting.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Interesting.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, taking the left turn a little bit, if someone, a student, like in high school or something, really found your lives inspiring, how would they go about getting one of these gigs?
Speaker: It's tougher and tougher at the moment.
Speaker: Oh my god, yeah.
Speaker: The talent is like... If I'm being honest, I don't know if I'd get into half the jobs that I had gotten into now.
Speaker: Because the talent is so fierce.
Speaker: That's not very inspiring.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: No, no, I'm saying they're very good.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like, but if we can do it, then they can do it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I think you just do it.
Speaker: I think a lot of times getting your first job is just turning up and I knew I was going to get the job, which is so wild.
Speaker: I turned up and was like, I'm going to get this.
Speaker: There's got to be like, you just have to be bold and make bold decisions.
Speaker: Very confident.
Speaker: Push your way into the room.
Speaker: Performance.
Speaker: So if you think about the industry, like a lot of people have moved up into their positions.
Speaker: So they were probably performers, the people auditioning you.
Speaker: They're not scary.
Speaker: Of course.
Speaker: They've been in your shoes.
Speaker: They're going to relate to you because they grew up dancing at a dance school.
Speaker: So, you know, show a bit of who you are.
Speaker: What makes you funny?
Speaker: What makes you light up a room?
Speaker: It's like you need to bring your honest self to the audition.
Speaker: Authentic self.
Speaker: Authentic.
Speaker: I think a lot of people think I need to dance this way and be this way.
Speaker: I think...
Speaker: Sometimes just being yourself is... What?
Speaker: It's gonna get you in the room.
Speaker: That's gonna get you in the room.
Speaker: That's gonna... People are gonna be like, oh, I wanna work with them.
Speaker: Yeah, the energies.
Speaker: You need to be like, oh, they look fun.
Speaker: They're fun.
Speaker: Yeah, because we wanna work with fun people.
Speaker: You know what I mean?
Speaker: Like, you don't have to be the best dancer in the room, but if you have an amazing personality and you're a good person...
Speaker: That's way better.
Speaker: People are getting hired.
Speaker: Especially on long contracts.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, if you're doing contract work, I would choose a personality, a friend.
Speaker: Oh, for sure.
Speaker: Over the best dancer.
Speaker: A good person.
Speaker: Yeah, because a lot of the best dancers, they're so hard on themselves and it slips out of them and then they're hard on everyone else and it becomes a burden for a cast.
Speaker: My first audition for my first company
Speaker: I completely messed up the choreography.
Speaker: Completely.
Speaker: Like, I botched it and I was like, there's no way I'm getting a call back.
Speaker: Sure enough, they were like, you kept your face.
Speaker: You didn't know what was going on.
Speaker: They were like, oh my God, you were like, just looking at your face.
Speaker: And I was like,
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: So, I mean, yeah, if you mess up, it's not the end of the world.
Speaker: You can still get the job.
Speaker: That's amazing.
Speaker: I was going to say something about, oh, for this company in particular, I had like a full blown phone call interview.
Speaker: They wanted to know what kind of person I was.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: before I got the job.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: And I loved that.
Speaker: They had like a full on phone call conversation.
Speaker: Like a vibe check?
Speaker: Like a vibe check.
Speaker: And I was like, this is amazing.
Speaker: I definitely want to work for a company like this that really wants to see who I am.
Speaker: Value me.
Speaker: So it was really nice.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Also, most ships are still really technically based, so just work on your technique.
Speaker: And versatility.
Speaker: Take all the classes of every style because you never know when you're going to do an Irish Step number or a salsa or a part train.
Speaker: There's so many aspects.
Speaker: They need a jack.
Speaker: Bollywood.
Speaker: I mean, yeah, truly.
Speaker: So the more classes you take, the more versatile you are, especially for ships because you can't just do one thing.
Speaker: It's too expensive to bring a specialty act to just do one thing for a 15 day cruise because the one show over and over again is not going to serve a ship.
Speaker: They need variety.
Speaker: But yeah, I would just go there and audition and be you.
Speaker: And versatility.
Speaker: Yeah, versatility is a big one on ships, I found.
Speaker: Before we wrap up here, and I don't want to say this about every ship because this ship has been pretty amazing and this cast has been really friendly and really amazing.
Speaker: But I have been on certain ships where the dancers, the cast, and the musicians have this massive wall in between them.
Speaker: I don't know if you've experienced this.
Speaker: And the reason I invited you guys to talk to me is because you two consistently hang out with the musicians on a pretty regular basis.
Speaker: And I really appreciate that.
Speaker: Because you guys are awesome.
Speaker: So I was wondering if you had any insight about why that is, or if you have experienced that.
Speaker: I think there's a lot of reasons.
Speaker: There can be so many things that create a barrier.
Speaker: A cast might be really health conscious and don't like to go to the bar.
Speaker: And then you're not meeting other than in your show.
Speaker: That's all it could be like.
Speaker: They like to get up early at six, go for a run, have a smoothie, go off and have a...
Speaker: coffee, get on the ship, take their nap, get ready for the show.
Speaker: That's what they like to do.
Speaker: Some people, that's it.
Speaker: Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.
Speaker: There are moments where I feel like in
Speaker: a lot of contracts, the band is definitely not treated as well as the dancers and the singers.
Speaker: So there could be an underlining jealousy where they don't want to hang out with us or we don't know if they want to hang out with us and their schedules are extremely busy and they're constantly working.
Speaker: Whereas we're out in port so the times that we would want to hang out, you guys are working.
Speaker: So it could be something like that as well.
Speaker: But I think if you reach out a hand, we'll hold it.
Speaker: Hopefully, you know.
Speaker: I would say though, also on different companies, there might be their hiring practices.
Speaker: So a lot of people, companies hire really young, straight out of college.
Speaker: For the dancers?
Speaker: For the dancers.
Speaker: And then musicians might be 10 years into their contract.
Speaker: And so there's like a whole...
Speaker: era between them where they don't even connect.
Speaker: That's a divide, yeah.
Speaker: And that, I think for me, that could be a real, like a big one for a lot of people.
Speaker: Also, this is the first band that is with us for all of our shows.
Speaker: Most of our shows, I feel like, in other contracts.
Speaker: You're behind that one.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You mean they just use canned music?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: or sometimes musicians are fully trapped on some ships at the moment it's like really terrible they're doing other things they're not in our shows at all yeah interesting yeah so so there is a divide there because you're not even on stage together you know i would hope that people would be inclined to
Speaker: be on the same page and make it feel like we're all on the same page, even though we know what you guys do and what we do.
Speaker: I mean, you guys work so hard.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And you're incredible.
Speaker: And you're so talented.
Speaker: You guys don't have to say that.
Speaker: No, but we don't.
Speaker: You guys are so dedicated.
Speaker: We actually don't have to say anything.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I just think it's weird within entertainment to have also different benefits for people.
Speaker: I hate that we're not having the same.
Speaker: It makes it uncomfortable because, yeah, we're treated differently and...
Speaker: I don't like that.
Speaker: We're literally all in entertainment.
Speaker: It's been that way on all of the ships I've worked on.
Speaker: Is that consistent throughout other ships?
Speaker: I know you've done a lot.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I would say.
Speaker: There was one company that we were all treated on sale.
Speaker: My first company was all the same benefits.
Speaker: Yeah, because we did have a show band and...
Speaker: We did hang out.
Speaker: Actually, there was only a few people in that cast that I hung out with that were in the band.
Speaker: And a lot of them did their own thing.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: It's interesting.
Speaker: I mean, I guess going down that path a little bit more, do you guys ever come into casts where it's like super vibey and you don't get along with the rest of your teammates?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It really can ruin your life.
Speaker: That's why I left this contract before.
Speaker: Then I heard such nice things about it.
Speaker: I think it was like the perfect contract, but if you have, if you're on a never-ending journey with the same people, you want to like them.
Speaker: You need to like them.
Speaker: And if there's just...
Speaker: so many different leading personalities with opposing thoughts and everyone has an enemy and it's a scary place.
Speaker: Sometimes people just aren't happy and they bring that into the room with their own lives or being here, they're over it or whatever it is that can really infiltrate the cast.
Speaker: Staying a long time, I think that's... If you stay in the same company for more than a certain amount of time, I think that's where that starts to happen because I think in general performers are meant to be flying around.
Speaker: We're flitters.
Speaker: We're airy fairies.
Speaker: We're floating.
Speaker: Little butterflies.
Speaker: I think the darkness comes when instead of focusing on what drew to entertainment in the first place, you think about the money.
Speaker: first and stability only yeah but that doesn't really serve you as a performer yeah and we did also talk about this tonight which is so crazy we're having this conversation like um people don't really understand entertainment as a job or like they like uh
Speaker: I won't name names, but we had a musician on here who had a very wealthy partner come on the boat and they couldn't understand why he would be here still.
Speaker: I mean, you really have to make a choice to become a performer.
Speaker: It is not like, it's like, no, I choose to do this because I like it.
Speaker: It's like a calling.
Speaker: So you don't like... Passion.
Speaker: And then, yeah, and I put value in it, so I wouldn't want to give it up.
Speaker: Do it for the love of it, not the money.
Speaker: Yeah, it's not the money.
Speaker: Yeah, that's important.
Speaker: It's not just a job, it's a passion.
Speaker: I think going to the floating, I think it benefits you to get more...
Speaker: I know that there's certain people like my mother who worked for the same company for 40 years, which was absolutely incredible.
Speaker: But this day and age, you're going to have multiple jobs and people
Speaker: don't really hire you because you have longevity.
Speaker: They want to know what you've done, where you've done it, and how many places you've worked, you know?
Speaker: So I think that it does help to see all different sides when you float around.
Speaker: And you're always growing, and you're always getting to meet people and changing.
Speaker: And yeah, I think change is good.
Speaker: I do.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Also, if you stay with the same company, you never get to learn what your true value is.
Speaker: because you've only ever known what they think of you.
Speaker: But when you try different things, you go, oh, I'm great.
Speaker: Amen to that.
Speaker: Yeah, sometimes people think they've got the best company and they don't go anywhere else.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: They go somewhere else and go, oh my gosh, what was I doing?
Speaker: This is a much nicer contract.
Speaker: I will say, my first contract was awful.
Speaker: In regards to the cast, I could have written a book on all the things that happened and escalated within the cast, but we hated each other for the most part.
Speaker: And I had my core little group, but...
Speaker: I would rather hang out on a beach with guests than my cast, which is saying something.
Speaker: And because I'd like to think of myself as a very positive person, people were like, how did you go back to ships?
Speaker: And I was like, I don't know what it was.
Speaker: Like, I still loved what I did.
Speaker: So I just went for the next one.
Speaker: And the next one was a dream.
Speaker: I still talk to all of them today.
Speaker: And it's really special.
Speaker: So you can have a dream cast.
Speaker: It is rare that all of you get along.
Speaker: It's happened twice in my experiences on ships.
Speaker: And it was like magic.
Speaker: Like magic.
Speaker: You just know when you're able to just vibe with everyone and it's beautiful.
Speaker: It's really beautiful.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's cool.
Speaker: Is there anything else you want to add?
Speaker: I hope I didn't make it seem like I don't want to inspire the younger generation because I genuinely...
Speaker: That's all I want to do is inspire people to do what they want to do and to dream big and you really want to do something and you put your mind to it, you can absolutely do it.
Speaker: I'll end with that.
Speaker: Yes, dancer.
Speaker: Anything you want to add?
Speaker: Be bold.
Speaker: Be bold?
Speaker: Yeah, that's it.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: Be bold, kids.
Speaker: Take your hair down.
Speaker: Let your hair down.
Speaker: Go wild.
Speaker: Audition.
Speaker: You guys, you're the best.
Speaker: Oh, thank you.
Speaker: You've been listening to our conversation with Alexandra Cooney and Mitchell Thomas McCrone.
Speaker: You can find more about Alex on her website, alexandracoonie.com, and follow her on the socials at Wanda Around the World.
Speaker: And be sure to check out her new dance clothing brand, Yes Dancer, at yesdancer247.
Speaker: You can follow Mitchell on all the socials at mitch878 and his choreography work at jmc underscore collab.
Speaker: If you liked our conversation today, please follow and leave a rating or review wherever you are listening.
Speaker: If you'd like to support our work, you can join us at patreon.com slash relative rhythms, where you can gain access to all of our uncut episodes and extra content.
Speaker: Our theme song is For the Love of It by the Adam Price Group.
Speaker: featuring Emily Jane Agri on foot percussion.
Speaker: Our mid-roll music was Shea Evesanci, and our outro music is Circuito das Aguas, both by Alexandre Pavato, off of his EP, Sweet Circuito das Aguas.
Speaker: Don't forget to follow us on all the socials at Relative Rhythms, and feel free to send us a message.
Speaker: Check out our merch on our website, relativerhythms.com.
Speaker: Thanks for tuning in, and we'll see you next episode.
Speaker: I'm going to go ahead and put it in the middle of the day.
