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Episode 1 - Bradford Young - Breaking Barriers
1k Plays1 year ago
Bradford Young (Pariah, Selma, Solo) is an Oscar award nominated cinematographer and an extraordinary new presence in the space of commercial directing. He sat down with his long-time friends, directing duo King She, to discuss the necessity of creative community, the cosmological ingredients of great filmmaking, and the unexpected potential for creative freedom found in commercial advertising.
In this episode we get to hear about how Bradford’s ethic of working was shaped by his mortician/Civil Rights-revolutionary Grandfather. He offers his interpretation of the spiritual and alchemical process of “getting the shot.” We hear how limitations in his early career and issues of technological accessibility both informed his visual aesthetic and galvanized him to create Tribe7, his cinema lens company. Bradford also speaks on the power of strong visual language paired with artistic rigor. He shares his vision for genuine creative trust and freedom in his working relationships and offers advice on building one’s own bridge to directing from other crew positions.
Mentions:
Imar Hutchins
Akin McKenzie
Titus Kaphar
Leslie Hewitt
Harris Savides
James Grey
Roger Deakins
Jason Moran
Khalil Joseph
Arthur Jafa
Tribe7
Neil Fanthom
J Dilla
SR2 Film camera
Neéstor Almendros
Pasolini
Tarkovsky
Vittorio Storaro
The Conformist
Belly
Malik Hassan Sayeed
Reed Morano
John Hillcoat
Haskell Wexler
Shawn Peters
Aint Them Bodies Saints
This episode is sponsored by Somesuch, Supreme Music, Bonaparte Films, UN.STUDIOS, and Cabin Edit.
Recommended
Transcript
The God Particle of Filmmaking: Community's Role
00:00:01
Speaker
I mean, community is everything, right? I mean, that's kind of like the God particle. Somehow filmmakers think that they are exempt from needing that support system, needing that camaraderie or needing that feedback chamber. But, you know, it's really, it's fundamental to the craft. It's fundamental to the art.
Meet the Hosts and Bradford Young
00:00:18
Speaker
You're listening to the Young Directors Award podcast. We're King She and we're your hosts. And this is episode one with Bradford Young.
00:00:28
Speaker
So here's a quick bio on Bradford before we jump into the conversation.
Bradford Young's Transition to Directing
00:00:32
Speaker
He's an Oscar-nominated cinematographer turned director. Yeah, he's sick. Film C shot include Ain't Them Bodies Saints, Selma, Arrival, and Solo A Star Wars Story. Dude, I love Selma. And just last year, he started directing commercials. And he won a Cannes Grand Prix and two Gold Young Director Awards for his Paralympic spot, Superhumans. Here we go, Bradford Young.
Life Changes During the Pandemic
00:00:54
Speaker
We moved to LA right before the pandemic, and that was really tough, being away from our families during a time like that. So we made plans to come back to New York last year, and it's been amazing. Word. Bradford had babies during the pandemic. Yo, I had babies in that joke.
00:01:14
Speaker
Well, you know, it wasn't during, it was like, you know, but basically, you know what I mean? And she was tiny by the time and all. Are you up to three now or? Yeah, we're up to three. That's awesome. Yeah, but you know what though, you're not, you know, you're close, so you know what it is. It's
Empowering Filmmakers: A Podcast Journey
00:01:32
Speaker
work. I don't know what you know about this podcast, Bradford, but we're basically talking to other directors to gain counsel as directors on the come up ourselves. Yeah.
00:01:41
Speaker
And our directing career got launched last year when our short film, The Boy Who Cried Swag won three YDA awards. And we immediately got signed to production companies for representation. And it's been really interesting being tapped into directing commercials based on making a short film and a pretty fringe one at that. But the process has also been very surprising and challenging for us. And the whole point of this podcast is to workshop with other filmmakers the experiences we're going through.
00:02:10
Speaker
so that we can learn from each other and hopefully empower each other in the process. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate that. It's a good time to talk about it because I'm definitely at a crossroads. We just were like the first person we need to talk to is Bradford.
Demystifying Filmmaking Through Dialogue
00:02:28
Speaker
I mean, one of the fun things is kind of just like talking to just other filmmakers and starting to unpack the process of how they navigate this space in an attempt to reflect maybe some of the learnings that you've gone through and if that could help others and vice versa, you know, so creating a sense of dialogue and community around it is crucial.
00:02:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, community is everything, right? I mean, that's kind of like the God particle. It seems so far away, but it's so innate, so organic and so present, but it feels so foreign. Somehow filmmakers think that they are exempt from needing that support system, you know, needing that camaraderie or needing that feedback chamber. But, you know, it's really, it's fundamental to the craft. It's fundamental to the art.
00:03:14
Speaker
It's fundamental to all arts, but film is laced with all other little complicated things that makes it less community orientated. If there's anything that we can participate in like this, where it's just like, let's just demystify the whole thing and let's just talk about what it really is. And that's like, I imagine that could probably be helpful for young people,
Family Influence on Identity and Work Ethic
00:03:33
Speaker
you know? People coming up, whatever, not even young, I can say young, but it's like folks coming up in the game.
00:03:37
Speaker
We've kind of spoken in the past, I think a lot of people might look at you or look at your work and think that it's been some kind of like innate thing or that you were born into a specific kind of like artistic class, but you know, so much of what you've done has been through process. What was early on that rigor that you put on yourself? What was it that actually allowed you to build the tools that you have now?
00:04:03
Speaker
you know man really honestly it's like it comes from you know my family for sure you know but like my parents i didn't get a chance to observe them and they're like rigor you know i mean because i think they're like a civil rights generation of like conflicted black people who were not necessarily trying to get jobs really wanted to still work in community and but also looked out and saw the need to like raise family and knew that
00:04:27
Speaker
In order to do that, they were going to have to transform and dress themselves in ways that were not necessarily innate to who they really wanted to be. I think the person that really struck a really incredible balance between identity, culture, respectability, politics, their blackness, and their understanding of how important culture was and how important work is are my grandparents, especially my mom's parents, specifically my grandfather, who was just like a worker. I tell the story that
00:04:55
Speaker
my very close dear friend, E. Mark Hutchins, who's an incredible painter and collageist, his grandfather and my grandfather were best friends. And my grandfather, during the civil rights movement in Louisville, Kentucky, my grandfather was like the financier of the movement. And so he like,
00:05:12
Speaker
pay for folks to get out of jail. He paid lawyer fees. He paid for folks to get food. He put his kids, my mom, and her four other siblings on the front line with him. And Lyman
Legacy and Civil Rights: A Personal Impact
00:05:22
Speaker
T. Johnson, who was Emar's grandfather, he was the agitator. And they had this beautiful symbiotic relationship where my grandfather would be like, go agitate, go agitate, and don't worry about going to jail, because I'm going to bail you out. And he was able to do that because he was a no-nonsense mortician.
00:05:40
Speaker
Like this cat was, he wasn't even, you feel me? Like this dude wasn't even a lawyer. He wasn't even like a doctor. He was a mortician. So it's all a testament. I grew up in a, I feel like I grew up in an environment with the like respectability politics of things, the sort of race first lens that my grandfather was kind of ushering us through. My grandmother who was like very cosmopolitan and very
00:06:05
Speaker
sophisticated on so many levels and really gentle and kind and beautiful and strong. And we really like all kind of huddled under her. She was like the hardcore English teacher. Like she really worked hard at making sure we understood the power of language. We were good readers and all of that. This is all like all this rigor that was around me.
00:06:23
Speaker
I didn't always like it. My grandfather was hardened. He was like an oak tree. He was hard to bend. He was hard to break. He was super. He was about his jazz, his bourbon. He was about protecting black people. And that was it. And family. But he wasn't like soft and warm and cuddly.
00:06:41
Speaker
My grandmother was about the exact same things, but she was like about art. She was about making sure we were around culture, you know what I mean? But they put in work in the rigor to make sure that the optics of things, it wasn't just like the gesture of like, we're doing this work to make sure that you're free.
00:06:59
Speaker
it was like, they made sure the optics were crisp too. Things had to feel and look a certain way. Sometimes it may have felt a little surface, but it felt and looked a certain way. And we all understood that we were standing amongst people who understood grace. It's so interesting that optics was part of the revolutionary act, part of breaking barriers for your family. How does that figure into your own rigor as a filmmaker?
Balancing Ancestral Dreams and Work Ethic
00:07:24
Speaker
I think, you know, for me, the rigor of it all is when you put
00:07:28
Speaker
the dreams of your ancestors, the sort of existential thing that's not necessarily connected to your blood, but that's connected to the cosmos that's always working, right? It's always touching you and calling on you. The thing that your ancestors are always putting forth for you or the challenges they give you or the things that we have to rely on, like their herbs or the things they left behind for us to keep us in shape. When you take that and then you take this sort of
00:07:52
Speaker
Western Protestant work ethic thing, and you mash them all together, they find like this beautiful balance. And that for me is like the rigor, you know, I mean, that's the thing like, you want to shoot somebody, you want to make sure they look good, you got to love that person, even though you don't know that person, that's like not about the commerce, that's about some other cosmological thing, you know.
00:08:10
Speaker
how do you take that, which feels so deep. I don't even know if the word fringe is even cosmological, but this episode is going to be called cosmological and not fringe. But how do you take that and then do what you do?
Commercial Directing: Financial Perks and Freedom
00:08:26
Speaker
You're directing short form now. I'm going to keep it a buck, so 100 for you. It's going to be real.
00:08:33
Speaker
Short form is cool because I can be with my friends and I can make some cash. And what I do with the cash is my business. I want to say that one more time for all the young heads listening. Yes. Yes. Go get your $1,000 Hinder Scheme shoes.
00:08:50
Speaker
Yes. Go get your whole Balenciaga bag. Yes. Buy the house in Silver Lake with the pool. Yes. Go get your whole brownstone in Bedstar. Do all of that because when you direct commercials, you get to pay more money than 99.9% of the population. And if you are a person of color and you're directing commercials and you're getting paid top right, you are essentially the enemy of the people. You are making more money than 99.9999 for some of your people. But at the same time,
00:09:20
Speaker
I also say with a little wink, what you do with your money is your business. And I remember what I told you about my grandparents. They had all of that. Cars, furs, they were living the whole beautiful life. But what they did with their money was their business. And what about community and collaborators when it comes to short form?
Trauma-Free Collaborations in Short Films
00:09:40
Speaker
I love being with the friends. I love traveling and making projects and like treating everything like a little film school project. And I love doing something like passing the footage off to Robert and being like, yo bro, like do you, man? Like I am going to be a zero trauma, trauma-free collaborator. You are a professional and you're an artist. Go do you. You're a consummate worker with rigor and a lovely spirit. It comes from a beautiful community.
00:10:03
Speaker
go do you. And that's also the thing that I'm trying to do is set a precedence about all this micromanaging and all this stuff that really traumatized me in making films that I can actually not have to do when I'm doing commercials. In commercials, I can look at Sean Peters and be like,
00:10:19
Speaker
Show me something. I don't even, am I, I'm looking and I love what you're doing. I see it, but have fun. Akeem McKenzie, why are you bothering me with the details of the room? Do what you want. Do what you wanted. I think there's also that part of me that enjoys it. I mean, it also helps that you're talking about two incredible collaborators, like Akeem and Sean. Yeah, different top level collaborators you work with.
00:10:41
Speaker
Akim doesn't even know this, but he's actually the inspiration for King, she, the name. I had this conversation with Akim. He was traveling all around Africa and my hands were just like supercharged. I almost had to like touch the ground after speaking to him. And that's when I turned to Robert and I was like, I have the name. That's dope. That sounds like a very Akim McKenzie moment.
00:11:09
Speaker
bringing it from community to film, to what you're doing with commercials, back to community. That now makes so much sense to me.
Commercials as Creative and Community Resources
00:11:18
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So that's why they feel it feels like a special resource, I would say. It's a special resource. And then periodically, you get really my first commercial, like the Paralympics campaign, where you get something that's about a little bit more than just selling the product. We're trying to sell a higher concept, a better concept of ourselves.
00:11:38
Speaker
or even hotels.com. It's cool, you know what I mean? Because we were able to like, you know, we set rules because we want to make sure that the crew has an afternoon to enjoy the location where we're shooting. You know, what's the use of going to Paris, taking some cat for Long Beach or South Central, who ain't never been to Paris. You're going to take them all the way to Paris and working with them and never let them see Paris. That's crazy. So we got a wrap. We got to get it, get the work done. And, you know, you know, nothing that's true. That's that community building taking care of each other.
00:12:04
Speaker
We've had conversations, Bradford, about idea of like making images with intentionality, right?
The Spiritual Aspect of Filmmaking
00:12:10
Speaker
Like image and image-making as having a kind of like personal purpose in a way. Do you still find yourself looking at images that you're making now and thinking, is this the thing? Is it there? Like, is there a process for you when you look at an image? Were you able to say, okay, yeah, well that's the thing. And what is that thing that's speaking to you in the image?
00:12:29
Speaker
Yeah, that's a really, that's a, yeah, that's a wicked question. Well, I think all of us, you know what I mean? There's that thing. I don't even know how to quantify it because it's so, the body without the spirit is dead. You just walk in dead. You don't have no spirit. You're just like a shell. If you're agnostic, atheist, spiritual, mindless, whatever you are.
00:12:50
Speaker
Like, that's kind of what we all are really looking for in every moment and everything. It's like, let's say, for instance, when a king, Sean, and I are trying to set up a frame, you know what I mean? And we see all of these like, it's all very messy at first. You know, it's like, ah, what's going on? What are we doing? Why is it not working? What's not happening? And what's happening? What's not happening is that
00:13:08
Speaker
The body hasn't been populated by the spirit, or the spirit just hasn't shown or revealed itself, because it wants us to be engaged in the thing that you asked, Robert, which is about this rigor. Titus Gafar, the painter, he said something to me, too, like a few months ago. He was like, he's like, when I make my work, I get the base. And then there's this other spirit, this gin that's in my shoulder that's saying to me, this other spirit that's saying to me,
00:13:35
Speaker
And I'm saying, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not going to rip the canvas. I'm not going to rip the canvas. And the spirit of Sandhune, okay, don't rip the canvas, but it's not going to be good. And so he's, I can't rip it. And then he says he finally rips the canvas and it's always works out. He just has to listen to that spirit that's always speaking to him. And I think it's the same way with us when we make frames.
00:13:54
Speaker
It's like the spirit's there, you know what I mean? It's just making us work hardest to test. Are you listening? Are you paying attention? Are you having this beautiful, complicated, layered conversation about what we're looking at? And again, with commercials, sometimes it could be about a can of Coke.
00:14:10
Speaker
Or it could be about a hotel room. You know what I mean? It seems very sort of primal for this whole thing that feels very spiritually sophisticated. But that's what it is. It is what it is. And I think the spirit doesn't judge that. It just wants the maker or the...
00:14:26
Speaker
the impact to be honest to whatever it is we're engaged in and for instance in film which is about really it's about the frame honestly that's really what filmmaking is about it's not about the frame then it's radio or it's a theater so the job of all of us is to make a frame.
00:14:41
Speaker
And how do you know it's the right moment, the right frame?
00:15:01
Speaker
frequency too, that they're unaware of, that they're working in as well, right? What's beautiful is the wife of King and then Shawn go in and put their hands on it. And I learned a lot about doing that from the artist, Leslie Hewitt, when Leslie years ago pulled me out of filmmaking for a hot second. He was like, you need to make installations with me. And we went and did video art. And it was beautiful, something I never experienced where we would set up tableaus and then
00:15:22
Speaker
She would walk in front of the frame and move something, and then go back and look at the camera. We shoot no film, so she's looking through the eyepiece, and then I would go in and move something. Or like return the thing. She moved back the other direction, and then we would look at it together. You know what I mean? And then there would be something, and we would say, this is it. And then we would do it. And that's the spirit. That's the man, the body has this thing that speaks to us and tells us, okay, this is the moment.
00:15:46
Speaker
it's possible and it's going to happen in whatever we're doing. And I'm being very specific about us who are working in the, I always love, this is like a word the elders always use, the creative fields. For us working in the creative fields, this is like, that's what it is, you know?
00:16:05
Speaker
It's interesting because it's like you've definitely been in situations that are like politically stressful, financially stressful, even time stressful.
Preserving Creative Space Amidst Stress
00:16:14
Speaker
Is there a process that you undertake? Is there a way that you protect for the space for that frame to speak to you?
00:16:20
Speaker
Great question. Yeah. You asking the killers filmmaking is a it's a creative endeavor. But it's also it has it has its own dialectics, right? And so I remember one story reading this book new cinematographer where Harris which has to be the great Harris to be as if you don't know, go look them up as well. Yep, yep. The greatest of all times, if not the goat.
00:16:40
Speaker
He was shooting yards. It was like the scene that kept shooting with Faye Dunaway in the kitchen with Mark Wahlberg. And it was like coming through the window and Harris kept shooting the same way. And James Gray was getting upset about it and they kept going to the dailies and it was too dark. And then they finally said, you got to shoot it differently. And so he said, he went back the next day and he says in the book, I couldn't help myself. I did it again.
00:17:01
Speaker
And then he kind of segway from that to say, listen, filmmaking is a set of frames that have a relationship to one another. It's like the single frame. That's still photography. We're all engaged in the art form of motion picture.
00:17:16
Speaker
I don't care if you're a sound designer, a film recordist, a director, a producer, you gotta respect. This is a process of motion pictures. If you're not into making pictures, get out the craft. You feel me? Like if you just want to work with actors, go do stage. At some point you gotta respect this camera and the frames. Every frame is only as good as the frame before it and the frame after it. And sometimes the frame in the middle is not as strong as the frame before it or the frame after it, but it has its place.
00:17:44
Speaker
To quote another person, Sylvain Defoe, who's like camera operator, now extraordinary, I met her as a camera operator, now she's an extraordinary, incredible cinematographer for Montreal. She would always say to me, one frame at a time, you know what I mean? Like, take your time on that frame. Now, do you get to the point where the frame is like an embodiment of this euphoric thing that we're all kind of like, you're doing the whole wax poetic thing about now? Maybe not, but it might not have been the purpose of that frame.
00:18:10
Speaker
You know, you get it to as close as you can. And of course, because of the way film operates, there's all these other little minuscule, trivial things that kind of, but beautiful at the same time to come in to like invade the process or like stop the process or are challenged by the process. All that politic happens. And that will get in the way of getting the claim to like its best self, because it's a living thing, I believe.
00:18:30
Speaker
But that is what is meant for that frame. You know what I mean? The next frame, you might be able to reach a certain level of perfection. It's just like saying every single frame that Roger Deakins makes is a perfect frame. If you ask him that, you know what he's going to tell you? No, it's not. It is not. Now that frame that came after that frame is beautiful, but the one before it is good, but it made the next one better. And that's the thing about frequencies.
00:18:54
Speaker
Go listen to any jazz. You know what I mean? Anything. Do you know any jazz? Go listen to Nirvana. It smells like Team Spirit. They do these pauses in the melody that are incredible. And so it's gaffes. That's like, those are the frames that are not as alive or not as full with visual sonic frequency. But that's what they're supposed to be because the next frame is the frame where you get the power and the boom. So that's like,
00:19:19
Speaker
the perfect theoretical, I got it all figured out. Now, does that make it less upsetting when you can't get your frame right? No, but that's what makes you human. That's what makes us artists. That's why we artists. We believe in that euphoria. That's really what we're trying to be honest with. And that thing we talked about before about how the spirit embodies the moment. Yes, when you're not reaching the euphoria, then it does feel like you've been cheapened or you've been rocked of a moment.
00:19:46
Speaker
I just wrote down the euphoria we expect the art to give. I think that that's a dream I've been chasing for a minute now. Yeah. And it's the thing that musicians are working with and accessing in real time that we are not. I remember when we finished.
00:20:03
Speaker
Selma, we had the screening in Jason Meringue of one of the most incredible pianists, black classical music jazz pianist of our time. We were outstanding in the lobby and we were talking and I said, nah man, you gonna score another film? And he was like, nah, I'm not scoring no more film.
00:20:19
Speaker
I was like, why? That feedback I get from the audience in real time when I'm playing, I miss that. There's nothing that can give you that. That's why I'm doing it. It's hard for me to not have that and still feel like I'm giving something. That euphoria is real. That's really what these musicians really are thirsty for. They have such a different kind of healthy relationship with audience because the audience is right there.
00:20:44
Speaker
Which is the reason why, you know, people like A.J. and folks have been talking about how the process should be so much more musical. A.J. could really allow them, you know?
Tribe Seven Lens Project: Accessibility in Filmmaking
00:20:51
Speaker
A.J. is Arthur Jaffa, who's an incredible artist. Their position is that when they say they want it to feel like as radical as jazz, the sonic quality, the visual sonic quality, it's not just like the way it looks or the what you feel when you see it, it's also when we're making it, how can we make it feel more euphoric, you know?
00:21:09
Speaker
I mean, I feel like as filmmakers, you do it in other ways too, right? Like one of the things that I learned recently, I didn't even know this, but like, uh, tribe seven, just so everybody knows Bradford's involved in a company called tribe seven that makes, um, cinema lenses.
00:21:24
Speaker
Right, right. I mean, well, you know, the journey has been since 2017. You know, Neil Fathom was basically the genius lens thinker of Airy Media here in London. He and I, during solo, decided to join forces, really his vision, you know, of like, we should make lenses that are less expensive than like the big boys and slightly more expensive than, you know, the ones that just bought off the shelf and we should make it customizable. We should make it
00:21:48
Speaker
very affordable and also very transparent. You should be able to really get in that lens and let the lens tell your whole story. Lenses and film technology are not relatable. It's not a relabel endeavor. It's a very hierarchical, elitist endeavor where nobody even tries to put their foot in there because the gatekeepers have it on lock and how dare you try to come in here and say you're going to give people access to this meta alternate universe buried in these few pieces of glass.
00:22:16
Speaker
but they know that's what it is, right? They know that's what they're doing anyway. They know that's the magic of optics, all the way back to the book of optics, all the way back to ancient Islamic texts. We all know that optics are like, come on, we know what it's about, camera obscure, like prisons, please, don't get me started. It's not just the lens, there's some sorcery up in that thing, and there's some God up in that thing.
00:22:37
Speaker
So they know, and so they try to make it... Capturing light. It's a tool that captures light. Capturing light, captures light. It captures an imprint, a shroud of light. It's miraculous what it can do. Neil and I are lovers and connoisseurs, and we consider ourselves part of a hip hop generation. One of the patrons saying to the company is like Dilla. He was one of the first on the website. It's like, we put Dilla up first. You know what I mean? Because... Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
00:23:04
Speaker
I'm just saying it's colored by a musicality that's like apparent, but we just said it, you know what I mean? And I think, you know, really I know you use the right word, feedback. I mean, feedback modulation, amperage, all the things that really determine like sound electricity and how we can, you know, the ancient form of communication, which optics are, they are. They're an ancient form of communication. And so super, super thankful to everybody that's ever bought a set, not even a set. Some people just bought one lens.
00:23:34
Speaker
And we love them, you know what I mean? They're our heroes, you know what I mean? And we try to stay away from the trade shows and do all that stuff that feels, you know, I don't know, like, you know what it is, man? All of us are just reflecting on what it felt like when we went to, I'm always reflecting on what it was like when I was just through it.
00:23:50
Speaker
certain film spaces made me feel real. As you all said earlier, like you and Radha said earlier, just super lonely. And there was nothing more lonely than being out-teched, you know, somebody sitting on the sideline, like trying to like out-spray you with technical information, you know what I mean? If you don't.
00:24:06
Speaker
come from a community, or come from a space, or come from an economic class bracket where you can spit that stuff, because you didn't have access to it, then it made you feel less thin. And I know I definitely experienced that. And so I went hard on the things that I did know. I did know. I read books. I know my history. I know who I am. I know my assets. I know my story. I know where I come from. My defense was to go hard on that, even though I did know it was technical. But I'm also trying to not make people feel uncomfortable by always spitting tech. But I want to make highly technical things
00:24:35
Speaker
that are easy for people to use. And the only way you can make it easy for them to use is for them to feel like they're in total control of it. It's funny you're saying that because like going back, like if we were to rewind, you know, man, I so fondly remember our walks around Cooper Union. Yeah. You and I walking around Cooper Union talking about film and the place we'd want to exist in, you know, higher art. And we just kept circling that building. And this is kind of like pre pariah, you
Creativity Over Resources: Filmmaking with Limits
00:25:02
Speaker
know? Yeah.
00:25:02
Speaker
But let's just go back to that space for a moment because there are filmmakers out there that are in that space that don't have access to equipment, that don't have the means to make the work that you're making. What did you do? How did you actually start making the work? Right, right. Another great. Another great.
00:25:23
Speaker
I mean, we just did it, man. And like, I can't remember the specifics. I mean, we had, you know, we were a community. I'm going to interrupt you because I remember. We shot it with one light. We shot it with one light. That's it. You know, that's it. Yeah. I mean, you know, we may do, we may do what we had. That didn't always feel good, but I definitely feel like I found myself in those experiences. You know, those are things I carried with me all the way to solo.
00:25:50
Speaker
Yeah. It wasn't like I got to solo and got all brand new. I was like, yo, where the windows at? There's two windows. That's where all the lights coming from. You know what I mean? It wasn't like, I'm going to put a hundred lights in here. You know what I mean? Because as soon as I see a double shadow, I'm freaking out. You know what I mean? Because then it starts to feel like that thing that I don't like. And so, yeah, I mean, we just did, I mean, we made, I mean, we essentially did, you know, with, you know, dance, you know, the elders always say is like, we made something out of nothing.
00:26:20
Speaker
There is this bridge between the world we live in now with this hyper social media, hyper globalized thing. It does match the experience and the work that's being made. I mean, I came from Howard, so we only had, there was, there was only one life. You know what I mean? We had one lens. We had one SR2.
00:26:39
Speaker
that hadn't even been converted to Super 16. It was still 16. And that's all we had. And then somebody stole that. And then we had like an at-time. And then we had like an at-time. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, I was used to these like challenges, but we still made sense. You know, we still had, you know, certain stories in our head. Like, we still wanted to work like Nestor Alejandro's and Storaro together, which washed the room with color, but also at the same time, shoot at the perfect hour. You know what I mean?
00:27:06
Speaker
You know, we had ideas, you know what I mean? We also, we had Haile Garima and Sri Kiana Ina in one ear, but we were also sweating Tarkovsky, pozzolini in the other ear, you know what I mean? Like we had all this sort of like array of influence and inspiration that all kind of made sense that.
00:27:22
Speaker
you know, like something like pariah, which is like completely natural, like completely low key, but then you can see us trying to do the storaro thing or do the like, do the belt, and I'll say this too, but then in a four, four, four, four, forefront, we had Malik and Hype. We had literally like, we considered them to be the gods of like the craft and the expression and the practice. So we had all these like really incredible references. So when we had a moment, so we would design almost together, we would say, this is a moment where we're gonna
00:27:52
Speaker
two more lights, and we're going to use them very specifically. And we're going to do the color washing. We're going to make sure that it has its resonances, but it's going to serve its purpose. And so I think that film, when you see it, has all of that frequency and quality in it. But we survived. I love that. I love that. I never thought of it that way. That pry is some combination of the conformist meets belly. Completely. Completely. That's amazing. Completely. We literally pulled the conformist out last night. It's on our shelf.
00:28:20
Speaker
That's it. Remember. Remember where you come from. That's it. I mean, you know, that's a Malekan hyper-watching. You know, AJ was making us watch films on and on, you know, so many films. I mean, we had strong references. We had strong ambitions. We had very little resources, but we had strong ambitions. And we really wanted to tell stories with a strong visual language.
00:28:43
Speaker
an elder in the community who kind of taught all of us his name. We call him Baba Kwesi, but his name's John Renau. And he always says, even listen, it's funny, this cat taught everybody from Malik, inspired Malik all the way down to my 10-year-old older guy's nine. Actually, that's the thing. He would always ask my son.
00:28:58
Speaker
Do you know the difference between the written language and the visual language? This is the cats that we're around. They were just neighbors living in Baltimore. They still believe so much in cinema, believe so much in the power of the image that they would even ask a nine-year-old.
00:29:15
Speaker
Let me talk to you about the visual language. And that's, that's kind of what we came up in. And so, you know, none of these filmmakers made any Hollywood film and never made a film more than a couple few thousand dollars. You know what I mean? So it wasn't like we had those references either. We just, again, we have a, you know, a strong sense of community and we feel like we have something to say. You know, when you got that, an iPhone will suffice. Yeah.
00:29:39
Speaker
I do appreciate the fact that the iPhone is not a pejorative object. It's like people are using that thing, you know what I mean? And they're not into this whole, wow, I have this camera, so I'm paralyzed. People are like, they're just doing it. And I know some people, we still have that, that's still out there, but people are not paralyzed by the technology, you know what I mean? The iPhone has saved us on probably every shoot, commercial and non. Yeah.
00:30:07
Speaker
It'll work, let's just put it, put it. I just did one with Rob, and I just, we couldn't get the underwater camera to work. So at first they see was like, literally said, bro, it was in Miami. He was like, come here. I came over. He's like, come on, check this out. He took his phone out of the case and just threw it in the pool. And then pulled it out and was like, see, it still works. And I was like, we're shooting with that right now. And it's fine, you know what I'm saying?
00:30:34
Speaker
I know that we're past even the time that we said that this would be, but it's a question on a lot of people's minds and is certainly something that relates a lot to us that we think relates to you, which is transitioning into directorial space from other professional careers.
From Cinematography to Directing
00:30:50
Speaker
Does anyone get to be a director right off the bat anymore? And if you are a fully formed professional, how do you manage the transition?
00:30:58
Speaker
Right. Nah, that's, again, a beautiful question, but I'm also giving 100 with you. I used to say there was no bridge between cinematography to directing, though at the time when I was saying that, I was definitely peeping Reed. I would be looking at Reed Moreno like, man, look what Reed's doing.
00:31:15
Speaker
I'm like, you killing it. She's a directive, man. You know what I mean? So that made my theories wrong. So I was kind of feeling like there was no bridge, but now I realize that there's a bridge. And I'm going to tell the story and come back to another thing that I've been saying and kind of been drilling down on.
00:31:34
Speaker
People would always come to me all the time saying, hey, you should direct if you don't have to direct. And I was just like, nah, it's not me. You know what I mean? I don't really know how to work with actors. I'm kind of not interested in working with actors. And I had all the reasons why I wasn't going to do it. And also, it was just not a story I wanted to tell. I was working with John Hillcote on the show.
00:31:50
Speaker
on a commercial, a long commercial. And, you know, V-O-N-A-T-N big up to V-O came to me and said, hey, you know, John told me that he thinks you should direct. This is John Hillcoat. So I'm like, I like John Hillcoat. I like his films and I like him. So I was like, I like him first, but I like his films too. And he's a great guy, you know? So I've met a lot.
00:32:09
Speaker
And I was like, oh, really? She was like, yeah, would you ever think about directing commercials? And I was like, I don't know. You know, the only other person I had reference for is Malik. You know, it's like my big brother. So I was like, so I know it's possible. You know, Malik is as great as a commercial director as he is a DP. So I was like, I guess it's possible or not. But I didn't really want to. I thought, you know, it's not going to be an easy transition because I still had that bridge thing. Like, what's the bridge? Is it really work? Haskell Wexler did it when he did Medium Cool. But who else has done it? You know what I mean? But then there was Reed.
00:32:37
Speaker
I went to Mexico to do this film and I ended up getting fired from the film. I called Vio and I was like, hey, I need some work. Because she had seen me shooting and because of the way I shoot, I think now what I know is because of the way I shoot sometimes maybe feels directorial. And again, I think we have to have a real talk about that because I don't want folks to get caught up in the director thing.
00:32:59
Speaker
But it felt directorial. I think what it really is is that it's the command of the visual language again, right? Which is really what film is all about. I think people, when they have kind heart and a pure mind, they really see that. They don't see the titles, you know what I mean? They see that there's a person that's really engaged in telling the story through a visual medium. I think then they just start to say, well, you should just, I just want to give you the opportunity to play with some stuff and see what comes up.
00:33:21
Speaker
Yeah, you've made things too. You know, you know, I made installations, you know, I do my installation work on the side, you know, I really have always thought maybe I would transition totally into the making experimental films. I never said I was directing those. I always said I was just playing with objects, moving things, you know, creating enough tension or enough energy in the space to see what happens in the shoot.
00:33:41
Speaker
So I think, not even I think, what I know for me was that getting into it was very pragmatic. It was very practical. It was like, I needed another way to express myself. And at the time, cinematography, it wasn't gonna happen. I was not ready. I was very traumatized. I lost all my confidence in that, preparing that film. And I was not ready to go back into the world of cinematography. And honestly, I'm still not ready to do it.
00:34:02
Speaker
But then once I got into it, I realized that again, it confirmed other things that are so much more, you know what I mean? And that it's a privilege to really be in that position. And it's a privilege to be in that position as the director. And again, I'm kind of still don't understand, I understand that, but I'm still, I'm avoiding what I feel are the cliches or the sort of tropes or the bad habits or the things that are like the low hanging fruit about directors, what that means and what that stands for. Like I'm an image maker, you know what I mean? Like that I feel confident about.
00:34:32
Speaker
Hey, listen, I'll put the camera. There might not be an image. I'll still call myself an image maker because I can make an image. I know how to underexpose it. I know how to do everything in between. I know all that stuff. As long as the story allows me to, I'll do that. I feel very strong about that. But the one thing that I'm learning and I feel really is a good learning space for me right now as I direct these commercials are doing short form is that I want to assert certain sort of working
00:34:56
Speaker
actionable, working things that are not always easy to introduce in the filmmaking context, which is, I want to give all my collaborators absolute freedom. Not a fake freedom, not a fake freedom with an insecure icing on top.
00:35:13
Speaker
like a real freedom. I don't care what Sean Peters does because I'm a cinematographer. I know how to make an image. I know he's great. He's one of the greatest working now. He's one of the greatest human beings, one of the greatest cinematographers. So I don't need to micromanage this person. I don't need to inject all of my insecurities in his process. I just want him to be the best he can be.
00:35:31
Speaker
I've had the privilege of working with some of the greatest production designers of all times. You know what I mean? Some of them who I admire so much that I'm like, I'm hoping to like shadow them. I'm not trying to micromanage them. I want them to do their best. I want them to teach me and show me something. I feel very secure in that space of just being an observer and creating this whole empty canvas so that we can truly collaborate like a band. It's like as AJ would say or Khalil would say or Malik would say like,
00:35:58
Speaker
In my band, Sean is the drummer, and the king plays some strange instrument from a part of the world I don't know anything about. I want him to play that instrument. I want them to do their thing. And what I'm trying to do as the person in this space, because it's safe to do that in this space, right? Because people in the client, they're mystified. They're already kind of like, what's the problem? They're trying to learn to and trying to check it.
00:36:19
Speaker
I can create a space where these cats can go do what they want, you know, and have a good time doing it and not feel insecure about doing what they want, not what I want, what they want. What do you want to do? Truly, what do you want to do? Because they're artists, and that's what they're here for. Not to just service my dream or service my little insecurities. I'm creating an alternate universe if it's only for a second for these wonderful artists.
00:36:42
Speaker
I want to just make sure that in this moment, listen, I'm happy to be thinking of a shot, making a shot list and doing storyboards and, you know, you know, being able to do that. That's fun. No, it's interesting, Bradford, like you've been like an old homie, but like a true kind of inspiration for us, too. You know, so it's just it's wonderful to kind of start here speaking to you. So that is going to say big up to you two, because you all tried many times when nobody was trying.
00:37:09
Speaker
to try to get me in spaces because you knew, you know what I mean, that I was, you know, I was an image maker. I was thirsty to like collaborate and be with people I like and love. And y'all tried many times, you know, succeeded sometimes, sometimes we did succeed. So I just want to say big up to y'all because that is a testament to that community thing I'm talking about. It's like, in community, we're not taking risks. We just really, we just really wrapped in love. So, you know, I always have like,
00:37:34
Speaker
nothing but love for y'all and I'm happy to just say that and really let folks know that like and this kind of goes back to the whole rigor thing that without people really stepping up for you or really wanting to show love and support then none of this I wouldn't be here anyway you know and that really comes before the filmmaking.
Advice for Filmmakers: Finding Your Voice and Community
00:37:53
Speaker
I'm just going to step in really quick and I wasn't going to bring up this story, but I will just mention for people that are listening, we were trying to get Brad on a commercial. I don't know if that was your first commercial or if it was one of the first ones, but we had a really hard time selling it through to the client and agency and I turned to you and I was like, Bradford, I swear to God, with him.
00:38:19
Speaker
Five years, you're going to be saying no to them. And I think it was like way less time than that. You went to Oscar. You're just like a whole shit ton of success that like flew after that sentence like came out of my mouth. And it's funny that you're saying that because it was one of those moments. Yeah. I mean, I never, I mean, you know, all the stuff that came after it was like, you know,
00:38:46
Speaker
I'm just remembering how important it was in that moment that you all were doing what you were doing. And I never forgot afterwards how important it was what you did. I don't know if it happens often, but I know at that moment it felt very abnormal. You know what I mean? It felt very counter-cultural, so it just made it more revolutionary to me and my eyes. I don't know how the folks saw it, but in my eyes it felt like a revolutionary act.
00:39:10
Speaker
you know, for all of us to be holding hands and walking in this room and you, you two were like coaching me through the moment completely. You know what I mean? Cause I didn't know what I was doing. I was looking for the, you know, feature film DP. That's how I saw myself. That's my training. You know what I mean? That's what I know. So even the commercial thing was a bit like excited to see if it was possible, if I could operate in that space, but you know, you were all really stepped on a limb. So I just want to pick you up.
00:39:32
Speaker
We have to ask you the last question, which is going to be our signature question for everyone, which is, what would you tell them that you wish you had known at the start of your career? Two or three tips. This whole episode is everything that I'm going to be digesting for the start of my career, which is happening now.
00:39:53
Speaker
But if you could actually sort of, you know, drill down on some of those, what could you go back and say to yourself? Or if it's even something like hyper practical, Brad, like, yeah, like, man, I wish I would. Yeah, like, man, I wish I used the light meter when I shot on fucking 60. Yeah, yeah. Well, first of all, don't take don't take any of this. Have fun. First and foremost, have
00:40:17
Speaker
If it ain't fun, it's not even worth it. I would say instinct is everything. Follow your whole instinct. If your body and your spirit tell you not to do it, don't do it. There's no other story on the other side of that. There's no other version other than just don't do it. It's not going to be a, I wasn't supposed to do it, I did it and it worked out. No, don't do it. Follow your whole spirit on that. I would say the last one is every story is unique.
00:40:44
Speaker
Everybody has their own way of seeing. This is not a competitive sport. This is an art form. Nobody paints like you. Don't worry about what everybody else is doing. Do you. Tell your story. Because that's special. That's unique. Nobody else is doing what you're doing. So you completely have innovated a whole and created a whole universe. Feel inspired.
00:41:06
Speaker
but don't feel insecure, you know? Feel very secure in what you're doing. Because there's a place for that voice somewhere. I didn't know there was a space for me to anywhere else in the power. I wasn't sure. I was never confident about that.
00:41:17
Speaker
But I found my people. I found my tribe. So that's the thing. Find your people. Find the person or the one person who loves what you're saying. Stick with them until it doesn't work out anymore, but stay with them and develop your voice together. Develop community together. The one thing that I would say I wish I would have done, I wish I would have under exposed Ain't Them Bodies stinks by like two more stops.
00:41:41
Speaker
Yeah, but that was a one-lighter. That was a one-lighter. I mean, Bradford Young, everyone, thank you so much. Thank y'all. I love y'all. This is the best inaugural episode we could possibly have prayed for. Thank y'all. Thank y'all for, again, going back to the top, thank y'all for being just family, you know what I mean? Family, community. I can't wait to see y'all in person.
00:42:02
Speaker
This episode was sponsored by some such cabin editorial Bonaparte and Studios and Supreme Music. Special thanks to our producer Joe Yardley and the entire team at YDA. The Young Directors Award is in its 26th year I can and is the biggest fringe festival to exclusively promote the debut of directing talent in the commercial, music video and short form space.
00:42:23
Speaker
This year's festival applications are open. You don't want to miss this opportunity. Extended entry deadline is midnight May 22nd.