Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
E067: Leigh Occhi
1.6k Plays5 years ago
Leigh Occhi was terrified of storms, yet disappeared from her Mississippi home during Hurricane Andrew. Some thought she was hiding, others pointed fingers at 3 important people in Leigh’s life.
Support the show (https://www.buymeacoffee.com/CoffeeAndCases)Recommended
Transcript
Starting Your Podcast Journey
00:00:00
Speaker
Sleuth Hounds. Have you ever considered creating your own podcast? Have you been inspired by listening to some of your favorites and thought, I'd love to try this out on my own? Whether it's a true crime podcast like ours, a motivational podcast, or maybe one filled with tips and strategies for those interested in the same activities you are?
00:00:21
Speaker
When Maggie and I first decided to start our podcast, we knew absolutely nothing about what podcasting would entail. But when we found that the platform Buzzsprout was one for which we didn't need any special equipment, just a computer microphone, some quiet space, and each other, we knew that this was the way to go.
00:00:39
Speaker
It is intuitive to use, fun to play around with, and so helpful in getting analytical data about our number of downloads to track trends and from where our listeners hail. Best yet, Buzzsprout is affordable, even by our teacher salary standards.
00:00:54
Speaker
Buzzsprout will get your podcasts listed on every major podcasting platform. So, what are you waiting for? Fulfill that dream of yours and start today. If you use our coffee and cases referral code 709-643, linked on Facebook and in our show notes, not only will you help support our show, but you will receive a $20 Amazon gift card after your second month on a paid plan. It's that easy.
00:01:21
Speaker
Podcasting isn't hard when you have the right partners. Join over 100,000 podcasters already using Bo Sprout to get their message out to the world. Now it's time for the world to hear what you have to say.
Exploring Life's Struggles
00:01:35
Speaker
We talk a lot about struggles on this show and just in life in general. People struggle to lose weight, struggle to find a job, struggle with addiction, struggle with death. We like to try to justify the struggle.
00:01:48
Speaker
We've been conditioned to believe that we'll enjoy life more. Take more from life if we struggle. Thomas Paine wrote, quote, the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. So just smile through your struggles and it'll be OK in the end. That's what we want to believe. But for some people, the struggles they're enduring don't stop at the end of some imaginary rainbow. For some, it seems that with one struggle ending, another one comes up.
The Lee Ochi Case Introduction
00:02:17
Speaker
Being married can sometimes be a struggle. With Valentine's Day behind us, we've seen all types of jealousy over the lavish gifts we've seen given on social media, but marriage is more than gifts and we know this. It takes hard work and even though some people work hard to make their marriage work, they just can't. I'm a firm believer that you can't change people at their core. They are who they are and sometimes in marriages, the person you thought you married isn't really that person down to the core and your marriage becomes a struggle.
00:02:47
Speaker
Being a single parent is a struggle. I'm amazed by single parents. I can't imagine balancing life, a job, a child, your own mental health with no one there to help you. There are actually around 13.6 million people in the US who are single parents.
00:03:03
Speaker
And I know that we often overlook your struggle, but despite that struggle, you make the best life you can for your child. Our story today centers around a struggling family, a marriage ends in divorce, and parents living on different continents. A mother's raising her daughter as best she can, and despite the smiles and the wishful thinking that things will get better, they don't. They actually get worse.
00:03:28
Speaker
On top of struggling with divorce, working and making a new life, now this mother is struggling with the death of a child. It's hard to keep smiling and to hold on to the idea that the end justifies the means when everything around you is crumbling. This is the story of Lee Ochi.
Engaging with the Community
00:03:58
Speaker
Oh.
00:04:18
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases, where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the case will take those tips to law enforcement so justice and closure can be brought to these families.
00:04:39
Speaker
With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, and to follow us on Instagram at Coffee Cases podcast and on TikTok at Coffee and Cases podcast. Because as these families know, conversation helps to keep their missing family member in the public consciousness, helping to keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week.
Exploring Crime with AR Technology
00:05:07
Speaker
Maggie, before you start your story today, did you download the app that I told you to download?
00:05:15
Speaker
I did and I'm still sort of figuring out like how to use it but yeah it is on my phone now and I'm a little obsessed with it and I think that all of our listeners will be too if they've not already heard of it. I know you guys have probably seen it already on social media it's been everywhere but of course that could be because I'm always looking up you know
00:05:38
Speaker
True Crime, but on social media, you've probably seen this app called Crime Door. I texted Maggie earlier this week and I was like, you have got to download this app because on it, if you download it, Sleuth Hounds, you can allow it to access your location and it will actually show you true crime cases that have happened near you.
00:06:02
Speaker
Which is super cool, or you can like type in a crime and they're updating it. I don't know if you notice Maggie, but like every day they're adding like two or three new cases because it's a new app. So it's like building and building the case files, but like.
00:06:17
Speaker
If you click on a crime, it will tell you like a summary. It gives you videos from like news stories about it and articles and photos and then podcasts about it. And I got super excited. This is why I texted Maggie too, because our podcast is listed on the podcast.
00:06:38
Speaker
And I just looked up like I'm flipping through like looking through it while we're talking about it. And I saw Blair Adams pop up and I was like, I wonder if we're on there and we are we're the first podcasted list, the first podcast listed for Blair Adams.
00:06:53
Speaker
So that's kind of cool. It's super exciting. And I haven't really explored the coolest part of the app yet, but there's actually a feature where it says like AR doors and it's like this augmented reality. And some of them are free. Some of them you do have to pay for because obviously the app creators need to make some money to keep going because this is time consuming. But and I'm sure some of them are locked because they are
00:07:23
Speaker
very detailed and graphic. They do have crime scene photographs, but like this augmented reality, you can open it up and use your phone and it's almost like a window into the crime scene. So if you are fascinated and obsessed with true crime like Maggie and I are, I just had to tell you about it.
00:07:42
Speaker
Yes, check it out. Yes, exactly. OK, sorry, Maggie. All right, back to your story. So today, we're starting.
Lee Ochi's Background
00:07:52
Speaker
Well, today's story centers around a town in Mississippi, and it was the summer of 1992, and 13-year-old Lee Oji was making the most of each day. And according to the disappearance of Lee Oji, it said growing up, Lee was known for being kind, outgoing, and smart.
00:08:11
Speaker
a sweet girl who was known for her love of animals and pizza. She was particularly fond of horses and had shown interest in horseback riding. She was also a great student, particularly when it came to math, which is totally not like us, Alison. We're English people. Anthony asked me something. It was so simple. It was like 13 plus like 27 or something. And I was like, hold on, I need paper.
00:08:39
Speaker
You're like, I got this, just give me a minute. Yeah, give me a sec. But Lee was a pro at math. And she was actually born, she was an August baby. So she was born August 21, 1979 in Honolulu, Hawaii.
00:08:57
Speaker
Look at that. So you and Lee are the same age, but she was born in Honolulu. Oh, well, that'd be nice. Yes. I've never been in Hawaii. That was, it was really, really nice, like beautiful. That's a goal for Anthony and I is Hawaii to go.
00:09:15
Speaker
But her parents were there because they were both in the military and they actually got married about only, they dated for about a year and they got married. And then as I hinted in the intro, their marriage would end in divorce in 1981. Oh, so Lee was actually very young. Yeah.
00:09:37
Speaker
But I mean, the fact that her parents divorced didn't really change a whole lot with her relationship with her dad. I mean, he moved, he was actually relocated to Germany, which is insane. And Vicki left the armed forces and moved to Toulupo. And I have no idea, y'all know me if I'm saying that correct, in Mississippi, and in order to be closer to her parents. To Tupelo? Tupelo.
00:10:07
Speaker
And even though Donald lived overseas, like I said, he did maintain a close relationship and a happy relationship with his daughter. And Alison, I thought that you would love this, but Donald actually flew her to Germany one summer and the two spent time like just exploring the country together and like doing all kinds of just fun activities. And I thought that was really cool. I love that.
00:10:32
Speaker
Like, I want my little sleuth hound to see the world. Yes. I didn't get to, but I just think that's so important. Yes, and I just felt like I thought that kind of spoke volumes of the dad, you know, to fly her out there. Eventually, though, Donald would relocate to Virginia, which isn't super close to Tupelo.
00:10:57
Speaker
But it is closer than Germany. Yeah. And they would spend much more time together. He talked about they would spend time shooting guns at the gun range. They love driving around in his four-wheel drive vehicle. I didn't really look up exactly where they lived in Virginia, but if it's anything like where I grew up, if they were more like a west part of the state of Virginia, they would have lots of hills and things to
00:11:25
Speaker
Do a TV a lot like Kentucky past times. Yeah, yeah, we're going to the gun range and go.
The Day of Disappearance
00:11:36
Speaker
So, um, summer started out just like any other for 13 year old lady. She had a boyfriend.
00:11:45
Speaker
which is key and she lived for their not only phone conversations and I know Allison that your little sleuth hound is getting to the age where that's like a super big deal like in middle school.
00:11:59
Speaker
that you have a boyfriend or a girlfriend. I'm not ready. I can't handle it yet. If they'll come into class and they'll be like, Miss Tamron, do you want to hear the tea? And they'll just like, so tell me, they're like, blah, blah, blah, likes blah, blah, blah, like all this. So it's a big deal. Oh, yeah.
00:12:19
Speaker
And so, like I said, she just lived for the conversations with her boyfriend, and I can just picture how excited she was to have a boyfriend at 13. So, the same time that this story is taking place, Hurricane Andrew was ripping apart the Gulf of Mexico. And you were young then, Allison, but maybe you remember Hurricane Andrew. It was a big hurricane. Like, he was a Hurricane Five.
00:12:46
Speaker
He caused a lot of deaths and devastating damage. Luckily, though, Mississippi, the part where Lee is from, missed the fury of the storm. That stuff creeps me out. Like tornadoes. Oh, yes.
00:13:05
Speaker
Yes, I'm terrified. Yes. And so they did get like tornadoes and thunderstorms and you are not the only one who is scared of like tornadoes and thunderstorms and things like that. I hate.
00:13:24
Speaker
when it gets super windy, I just don't like like a little rain or like a calm little thunderstorm is okay. But like, I do not do big storms. And like, I can remember my mom telling me growing up, like I'll get so scared. And she would say, it wasn't the lightning that scared me, it was the thunder. And I can remember her telling me that the thunder was just the sound of the angels in heaven going bowling.
00:13:50
Speaker
Oh, I love that. That's so cute. I'm like, I don't know how she thought that up. But that's so funny. Oh, it helped me? Or were you still freaking? Yeah. No, it did help me. Good.
00:14:02
Speaker
And Lee is just like us. She was actually very scared of storms. In fact, she actually slept with her mother on the night of August 26 because the rain was so heavy and it just like she couldn't sleep. And what year was this that all this was happening? 1992. Okay, so August 26, 1992, Hurricane Andrew thunderstorms sleeping with her mom.
00:14:28
Speaker
Yes, like the last of hurricane Andrew on the 26th and 27th and probably a few days after it's like pushing through Mississippi right now. Okay. And so they're just experiencing heavy rains.
00:14:43
Speaker
So the next morning, August 27th, Lee actually had plans to attend her middle school open house with her grandmother, which is, I do two, and that's just a normal summer thing. Also props to this school district in Mississippi, not starting school until the end of August. Didn't even realize that, that's amazing.
00:15:02
Speaker
I know. So her mom actually leaves to go to work around eight o'clock in the morning, leaving home alone, which from all accounts that I read wasn't really like a normal thing. I actually read that if she would get off the bus, like just, you know, when school was in session, if the door was like, I believe I read if it was unlocked, that meant her mom wasn't home.
00:15:28
Speaker
And she wouldn't go in. She would go to like a neighbor's house and wait for her mom to pick her up. Uh-huh. Because she just didn't like to be home alone. But this morning, she's left home alone. But if her mom left around eight, I mean, I don't know what time the open house is, but I wouldn't think she'd be home like a long, long time.
00:15:51
Speaker
Right. And it's not like she was going to be there the whole shift, just maybe for a little bit. She's 13. So, I mean, that's a pretty decent age to begin staying home, you know, by yourself for a little bit. Yeah. I think I might have started, like, my mom and dad going to the grocery store and, like, me staying home when I was in, like, seventh grade.
00:16:16
Speaker
So maybe it was just like a few hours, so it wasn't really any big deal for her to be home alone. Right.
00:16:23
Speaker
But by around 830 or 845 in the morning, storms were rolling back into town. And I think you'll appreciate this next little bit, Allison, as well, because Vicky, which is Lee's mom, obviously gets worried about Lee because she knows, right, that she's scared of thunderstorms and these storms are rolling back into town. And so she calls
00:16:46
Speaker
Lee at home and you know obviously this was probably pre-caller ID and they actually had a secret phone call system put into place so that Lee would know it was Vicky. Aww. I know so she would call and it would ring twice she would let it ring twice and she would hang up and then call right back and that's how like Lee and Vicky knew that it was one or the other trying to call them. That's really smart. I know
00:17:16
Speaker
Now we know who's calling because, you know, but back then, yeah, you didn't. Yeah. And like, it reminded me cause when anything up started doing this, like if you are rod me, if it's an emergency, like if you call a second time, like you need to pick up the phone and that's what that reminded me of. So she does call back the second time though, and no one picks up. So she just finds that.
00:17:47
Speaker
really odd because being home alone wasn't a normal thing. And so Vicky actually heads back to their house at 105 Honey Locust Drive because she is just sure that like Lee is too scared to answer the phone or something's wrong. And she called what like 30, 45 minutes after she left. So yeah, it hasn't been that long.
00:18:13
Speaker
Yes, and she actually from most reports that I read, she left immediately after calling some people say that she tried to call like the grandma to go over and check on Lee, but I don't really think that the timeframe can match up because she actually pulls into their driveway a little before 9 o'clock in the morning.
00:18:32
Speaker
So she's like an hour. Yeah, she's really only been gone like an hour, maybe an hour and a half because times could be off a little. Right.
Evidence and Investigation Challenges
00:18:42
Speaker
Right. And she's super surprised when she pulls up to the house to see their garage door open.
00:18:48
Speaker
the garage light on and like I don't know about you're at your house but I know that at our last house when we would open the garage door like an overhead light would come on and it would stay on for a few minutes before turning off and I mean like five minutes by a few minutes like it wasn't a long time.
00:19:06
Speaker
I think on hours, it depends. So hours, if you open the door and the light comes on obviously as the door opens, and then I think you're right, it's maybe five minutes and then it kicks off. But if I then hit the light button on it again after it's already gone off, then it stays on indefinitely until I turn it off.
00:19:36
Speaker
Oh, but if the doors open, it's probably the first scenario. And that's what the mom thanks to. So I'm assuming maybe they didn't even have like an option for it to stay on for a longer amount of time. But she knew.
00:19:54
Speaker
Something was amiss and she was trying to justify maybe Lee heard something. She opened the garage door to check something out and then she went back in and forgot to close it. She just goes inside a 105 Honey Locust Drive, but everything wasn't okay like she thought it was going to be. Oh, no. Okay. First of all, I'm super nervous right now.
00:20:16
Speaker
But I also have to say, even that, I know we've talked about this before, especially moms, we try to justify things instead of our gut reaction. We try to explain it away. But if she's that scared to where the mom was like, maybe she didn't answer the phone the second time because she was scared, I'm super doubting that she would have willingly opened a garage door to check on the noise.
00:20:43
Speaker
Yes. And Vicky enters the house through an unlocked door. So I also don't think she would have left the door unlocked. I mean, they have like a secret call system so they know who it is. Like, I just don't think that the garage door being open and the unlocked door.
00:21:01
Speaker
really point to anything positive being on the inside of the house. Cause I don't know about you Maggie, but I know when I was growing up, if my parents were not home and I was home by myself, the door was locked. My bedroom door was locked. Every light was on in my bedroom. I mean, like I was locked tight. There was one time my parents, and I mean, this was like, I was in high school.
00:21:26
Speaker
And they went to Tennessee for the weekend and I stayed home and all of our dogs were inside my house. All the lights were on. I slept with all every light in my house on. Yeah. Like, and when Anthony's gone, like.
00:21:41
Speaker
This is too much information, but I'll share it. Like when Anthony's gone, when I shower, I shower with like the shower door open so I can see if anybody is like trying to kill me. I know. And Vicki.
00:22:02
Speaker
Like you said, she tries to rationalize what she's seeing because when she walks into the home, she actually finds blood smeared on the walls. Oh my gosh. I would flip out.
00:22:16
Speaker
Yes. And like, again, like I'm trying to think in my mind, I would be like, okay, maybe she was trying to be grown up and she was trying to make breakfast and she cut her hand on a knife and like just in a pan and got blood on the wall. You know, maybe
00:22:35
Speaker
I'm going to walk into the bathroom. She's going to be sitting on the floor scared because she's bleeding really bad. I'm going to have to take her to the hospital and she's going to need stitches. Right. That's the scenario that I would be building in my mind. But when she goes through the house, no one's there. No one's outside in the yard. No one's outside in the pool. And so Vicki knew she couldn't rationalize the situation any longer. And she called 911. Oh my gosh.
00:23:03
Speaker
I know police quickly arrive on scene, but they make some really gruesome discoveries. And this part, I think we'll just, it makes your stomach kind of churn and it makes your heart drop a little. No. So according to the Charlie Project, which by the way, sleuth hounds, I'd love the Charlie Project. I do too.
00:23:27
Speaker
like such good information such reliable information so check out the charlie project but there was no signs like i said a fourth entry into the house but there were indications that a struggle had taken place first obviously is the still wet stains of blood that are inside the house on the walls in the carpet and on the bathroom countertop so it's there's quite a lot of it it sounds like
00:23:56
Speaker
Yes, because when I first was reading, like, I literally pictured like, you know, just a smear of blood, like you touch your arm or something, but this to me is like, there's a lot. They are able to determine that it's type O blood, but on the Charlie Project, it's they're unsure what Lee's blood type was. If she was, they don't know if she was A or if she was O, which... No, this could be blood from a perpetrator.
00:24:26
Speaker
Yes, but they don't believe that it is because the trail leads down the hallway to the living room to the back door and there's blood and actually hair ripped out and stuck onto the door frame suggesting maybe she was like carried out and they hit her head on the door frame. Oh no.
00:24:50
Speaker
And they find one of her nightgowns and one of her brawls, both covered in blood in her bedroom. Oh my gosh, that detail. You know, we say there's always like the detail that gets you. That's like kicking the stomach. No, it gives me like goosebumps.
00:25:10
Speaker
And the mom, obviously, Vicky is able to say, yeah, this was the night gown she was wearing when I left home this morning. And so as a parent, as Vicky, I don't know how she kept it together during this time.
00:25:32
Speaker
They are able to determine that it looks like someone made an effort to clean up blood in the bathroom, but they can't find a rag or a towel anywhere that would show that they tried to wipe it up. But they can tell from the countertops that it looked like someone tried to clean up. So basically at this point, we know that she has been injured in some way, but we don't really know how exactly.
00:26:01
Speaker
We know that, at least I would assume, and I know I'm jumping ahead, that it would either be someone local, someone she knew, because she had to have, if there's no sign of forced entry, then she had to have let them in, or a door mistakenly was left unlocked.
00:26:20
Speaker
Right. But the fact that she like the nightgown that she had on when her mom left is still there. Did the perpetrator have her change or is she naked?
00:26:33
Speaker
Well, the mom is able to tell police that Lee's greeting glasses are gone. She's missing like a pair of shoes. She's missing some underwear and clothes that she got for her birthday. So like the mom knows like these clothes should be here and they're not. And a sleeping bag is missing. So it's almost like whoever this was like told her, hey, we're gonna go. Like, yeah, I'm taking you back up your stuff.
00:27:02
Speaker
Hmm, maybe I was going to say maybe she changed clothes, but then why would her nightgown and bra have blood on them? Well, I don't know if it would maybe be like, I'm taking you and she puts up a fight and you know, she gets injured that way, but then still ends up changing clothes and going. Maybe, or maybe her nightgown was what was used to try to, I don't know, to try to wipe things up. Maybe, maybe.
00:27:31
Speaker
But according to the Washington Post, Lee's boyfriend Jordan said that his school was already back in session. They went to different schools. And so he got off the bus and he said it was his everyday ritual to call Lee when he got home. And so he calls the home phone and Vicky picks up.
00:27:49
Speaker
And in this article, he says, quote, I rushed off the bus to call her like I always did, to call her as soon as I got home from school. And her mom picked up the phone. I asked where Lee was, and Vicky said she was missing. I don't know what missing is. I'm 12 years old. What do you mean missing? And she said, we don't know where she is. We can't find her. Oh my gosh. Which I think is something. And this little boyfriend, I'm sure, was heartbroken too.
00:28:18
Speaker
Yeah. And like he said, he's 12 at this point. Like that's something super difficult as an adult to wrap your head around, let alone a 12 year old. They do send out though, like several, several search parties. Um, obviously, you know, the searches start pretty much immediately.
00:28:38
Speaker
But each search comes back empty handed. And I think Allison that a big factor that played into like how this investigation was handled, the clues that they had, the evidence they collected from like the crime scene and stuff was the weather. Because remember that Mississippi is experiencing heavy rains.
00:28:59
Speaker
due to Hurricane Andrew. So they're saying a lot of evidence could have been washed away. Like they weren't able to find footprints, which if it's muddy, you would think you would, but I guess if it's like really rainy, maybe they're washed
Suspicions and Theories
00:29:13
Speaker
away. And the same with tire tracks and the surgeon rescue dogs have a hard time following her scent because of the rain. Oh, it's like worst case scenario.
00:29:27
Speaker
Yeah, and many thought at the beginning that Lee was injured and she was hiding somewhere because she was just scared of the storms. So something happened in the house and she's injured and she maybe got scared and ran and then she's now hiding because of the storms and the rain.
00:29:47
Speaker
But when aerial searches are done, that reveals nothing. And it's soon clear to those involved that this is no longer a rescue mission, but a recovery mission. Oh, man. I know. And according to the article, the disappearance of Lee Ochi, one week after her disappearance, a $1,000 reward is offered in the hopes that, you know, someone would come forward with information. They don't. Two weeks later, it's doubled.
00:30:17
Speaker
and the home is filled off for investigation at that time. Vicky goes on to hire a private investigator. She runs ads in a local newspaper, all in the hopes of getting new leads and nothing happens. That seems like a long time to wait before sealing off the home. Yes. And I don't know if
00:30:43
Speaker
Like maybe that just meant like Lee was no longer allowed back in there. Maybe she'd been getting some of her stuff out. Like I'm not a hundred percent sure, but yeah, I agree with you. That is a long time to, because things could be tampered with. Right. I'd be like, lock it now. I'm going to go stay at somebody's house. Cause I don't want, I wouldn't want to like touch something like inadvertently mess, you know, that a perpetrator could have touched. And then. Mess up the investigation for my daughter. Yeah. Right.
00:31:11
Speaker
Eight days, though, after Lee is reported missing, a call finally does come in. A Northeastern Mississippi Community College student reported seeing a girl matching Lee's description in a truck in the drive-thru lane of the Booneville, Mississippi McDonald's. So we have someone to lead. Right. They look into it, though, and it actually turns out to be someone else. Because, I mean, we've talked about that before, like,
00:31:40
Speaker
I don't even remember what case it was, but everybody, like the detective said that this guy looked like too many people and it actually ended up hurting their investigation. Right. I know we talked about it with, uh, like the Amy Mahalovic case. They were like, don't let this sketch rule anybody out. Yeah. Oh, and it was the family, the French family that I covered the fall of it.
00:32:04
Speaker
Yeah, so again, we have this lead that leads nowhere and then less than a week after the false siding something totally just unexpected and strange and like the fact that
00:32:20
Speaker
Like when I was reading up on the case before I decided this was the one I was going to cover this week. Like this is why I was like, okay, this is interesting and this is just so bizarre that I have to mention, like I have to cover this case. And I wanted this to go further than it did, but it really didn't. So a package containing Lee's glasses was mailed to 105 Honey Locust Drive from Boombill.
00:32:46
Speaker
So the McDonald's where they supposedly saw her, but then it wasn't her. That town, someone from that town mails back Lee's glasses and they're addressed to Lee's stepfather, Barney, because Vicki had remarried at some point, but Barney and Vicki had actually separated a few weeks before Lee disappeared. That's weird. So then it's almost like this was some sort of like vengeance or vendetta against a stepdad.
00:33:16
Speaker
Yeah, or like I almost kind of took it as like, are we pointing fingers at the stepdad? Like I don't, like, I don't know. Police hoped obviously that the glasses would offer some new evidence that would lead to like figuring out who her abductor was. They wanted DNA samples, but the stamps contain no DNA. They're like, they were attached with water, not saliva.
00:33:43
Speaker
so they weren't able to pull any DNA. One of the investigators told The Washington Post, quote, we didn't bother with the state crime lab. I was hoping to get DNA off the back of the stamps, but the stamps were wet with water. The package had more than enough postage on it and was dropped in a mailbox in Booneville, end quote. Like, I actually read it had, like, I think six stamps on this one package.
00:34:09
Speaker
So like way more than what it would have. Like double the amount that it would need to actually get there. And a lot of investigators felt the glasses were just a distraction, like something to throw police off of the investigation. But like, I don't really know how that throws them off investigation because they were her glasses. Right.
00:34:33
Speaker
I just wanted this, like, so much more to come from the glasses, and that's really it. There was no ransom letter. Nothing really came along with the glasses. It was just the glasses. And, like, one investigator said, I mean, you would think if it was an actual kidnapping, you would have expected a little more to come along with that, end quote.
00:34:57
Speaker
Yeah. Cause if there's no ransom note, then this seems very personal. And like, are the, are the glasses supposed to indicate something? Is that why people are thinking it's pointing fingers at the stepdad? Like, you know, if he, if he, I don't know. What's he going to do though, mail him to herself? No, but what I was thinking, like, if somebody's trying to say that, like,
00:35:25
Speaker
I don't know. Let me give a scenario. And I don't want to make accusations. And I know that this is a wild accusation and scenario I'm getting ready to throw out there. But if the stepdad didn't want Lee around and wanted someone to send her off somewhere to live with somebody else, change your identity, whatever. And maybe the glasses were like a sign that it was done.
00:35:54
Speaker
Oh, OK, I see what you're saying. Like, I don't know if like that's at least a reason where there wouldn't be anything else but the glasses. Yeah. But like.
00:36:04
Speaker
But then you'd think like the glasses would be left somewhere. They wouldn't be like mailed back to the stepdad, which clearly would point a finger at him and make them look suspicious. That's why I said maybe it was like some sort of vendetta, because you'd think if it was something against Vicki, against Lee's mom, then they would have been sent to her. Yeah. So I think that's very bizarre. Yes.
00:36:34
Speaker
Like I said, I just wanted more to come from the glasses, but there really just isn't a lot of physical evidence for investigators to go on. I mean, we have the blood at the crime scene with the glasses, and that's really all they have, but they do have other information that helps them to build a case. So for example, while they couldn't determine how Lee left the house, meaning like, did she leave on foot? Did she leave in a vehicle?
00:36:59
Speaker
They were able to determine that the attacker had about an hour to an hour and a half to commit the crime he or she committed based on the timeline Vicki gave.
00:37:10
Speaker
Right, because she left at eight, she doesn't get home until after nine. Right. Also, the front door was unlocked. And this was, like you mentioned, a red flag, especially to the mom, Vicki, because they always locked their door when they were home. And the easy entry can only mean one thing to those who knew Lee Best, and that was that she knew her attacker. Yep, that's what I said from the beginning. Especially if she's that scared, the only way she would let somebody in is if she knew them.
00:37:40
Speaker
And I feel like it would have to be someone who knew her really well. Like they know maybe she's frightened of storms. And so they're like, oh, I'm just coming over here to check on you. Make sure you're okay. I know it's like storming outside. Like that kind of thing. That could be anybody. Cause you know, like I might share with all of my students, you know, something about my little sleuth hound. And now they all know that detail. Like it could be,
00:38:10
Speaker
Gosh, Lee could have mentioned it at school. Vicki could have mentioned it at work. I mean, it could be anybody. Well, we do talk about, well, right away, fingers point to a few select people. And there are three people that we're going to talk about and discuss that people in the community or people involved in the case or family
00:38:38
Speaker
feel kind of iffy about. Okay. So I think right away, obviously, we can rule out her father. I mean, not just for the fact that he lived in Virginia, but he was in the military. And it's not like you can just leave the military
00:38:54
Speaker
for a day and then come back for him to be able to commit some type of crime like this. He had to get special permission for a month's leave to travel to Mississippi to help look for his daughter. They would have known if you left. Yes, because he would have to report to duty and all that.
00:39:12
Speaker
were ruling out the dad. One thing I do find odd is that her dad, Donald, told investigators that he was under the impression that Lee had just simply ran away from home, that Vicki had like led him to believe that way when she talked to him on the phone. Blood smeared on the wall and things like that. I would, yeah, seriously doubt it. In the middle of thunderstorms.
00:39:36
Speaker
Yes, and I don't know if it's maybe like she knew he would be traveling. And so she didn't want him to, you know, speed or be super reckless trying to get there. And so she made it sound like it wasn't as bad as what it was.
00:39:52
Speaker
See, I don't think that's a natural reaction either. I don't either. And one- One girl can see freaking out. Yes. Yes. And once he learns what truly happened, he actually told people that like reporters and investigators that he knew, like he could feel that Lee was dead. And that after being misled by Vicki, he felt that she was somehow involved in Lee's murder. And he even told police to look into her as a suspect. Wow.
00:40:21
Speaker
And so we're actually gonna start with Lee's mom, Vicki. Okay, okay. So honestly, I hate even talking about Vicki killing Lee because in my naive little world that I live in, mothers protect their children and no mother would ever hurt their baby. But obviously we know that's not true. I mean, we see it all the time in the media. And so I wanted to actually know
00:40:51
Speaker
Like if there were studies on how many like child homicides are as a result of being killed by their mother. And so I googled it and it is shocking, shocking. So did you know that the United States has the highest rate of childhood homicide of any other developed nation in the world? Oh my goodness.
00:41:18
Speaker
eight out of 100,000 infants are murdered every year. Not a good, not a good number one statistic to know. Yeah. Like I'm all about being number one, but on that, I want to be the last one. Yeah, exactly. Um, and they actually think that those rates are, this is like, according to this big journal that I read online, um, they think that those rates are actually probably much higher, but due to inaccurate
00:41:46
Speaker
inaccurate coroner rulings or like some bodies just never being discovered and they think that could be a lot higher. And actually there's like around two kids per 100,000 a year that are murdered that are at least eight that would have been Lee's age. This also I was like what?
00:42:11
Speaker
This is a quote directly from this article called Childhood Murder by Mothers, a critical analysis of the current state of knowledge and research agenda. Among children under five years in the United States who were murdered in the last quarter of the 20th century, 61% were killed by their parents.
00:42:38
Speaker
30% were killed by their mothers and 31% by their fathers. Wow. Yeah, I'm sorry. What? Wow. I know. And it is actually the third leading cause of death for children ages five to 14 in the United States. Oh my gosh.
00:43:03
Speaker
Well, you know, when we talked about the Dardene family murders, and I found that statistic, that women are actually more likely to kill children than men. Like, again, what is this? Well, and I said before, like, I don't, I can't picture a man or a woman killing a child, especially, so like you just said, Maggie, a parent doing that, it,
00:43:31
Speaker
It boggles my mind, but I guarantee the leading causes are, you know, like those family annihilators, like the Chris Watts who like find some other partner and then like sickeningly in their mind want to like start over. And the only way to do that is to commit murder.
00:43:56
Speaker
And I read some other journals that were specifically about homicide-suicide type things, like where the mother would kill the child and kill herself. But I didn't obviously put anything about that in here because it didn't relate to this case at all. But I was amazed. And I think every time I read a statistic like that,
00:44:22
Speaker
my heart is broken because I just cannot, I cannot grasp it. No. But police do check into Vicki. She was actually subjected to three different polygraph tests, which I also found astonishing. But even more astonishing is the fact that she failed all three. All three tests, she failed them.
00:44:45
Speaker
Ooh. And that's hard for me because we talk about it all the time with the lie detector tests. Right. I know they're not reliable, and so I try not to judge, and yet I judge. Right. And that's okay. So I was talking to Anthony about this case last night. And her first excuse as to why she failed, she told investigators that
00:45:11
Speaker
The test was given just a few hours after Lee's disappearance, and so it couldn't have been accurate. She said, I couldn't tell you why, referring to her polygraph test.
00:45:23
Speaker
They measure changes in your body when your daughter has gone missing and they strap you up to things. I can't imagine anyone's body not reacting, but unfortunately they wasted a lot of time on it. And she told that to CNN reporters. And so I was like telling Anthony, you know, like the first one was just given like a few hours after Lee disappeared. And I was like, you know, I'm sure she did have a lot of like heightened emotions. And Anthony said, well, that's why they ask you like,
00:45:50
Speaker
is your name, Vicky, blah, blah, blah. So they can tell like what your heart rate is at that time. Yeah. So that's not even a legitimate reason, but it's not a standard to go by. It is not a legitimate reason, but she uses that also when she felt the second one and the third one. What?
00:46:13
Speaker
Well, it's been four years. And yeah, I mean, not a good look. And I know like a few cases ago, we talked about rumors, right? In this case also has a lot of rumors that are floating around. And so there were rumors that Vicky was beating Lee.
00:46:40
Speaker
Um, there were rumors that Lee would arrive to school with black eyes and bruises, uh, like coming from a teacher's perspective of like this age group. Yeah.
00:46:54
Speaker
exactly and like again Anthony and I were talking about this last night and he said well I came to school all the time with like with a black eye because I played sports and I'm like yeah but your teacher knew that right and I could verify that with your coach if I needed to verify that with your coach like if you're a student that you did not play sports and you came to school with a black eye and you tell me
00:47:20
Speaker
Oh, I was horseback riding and an apple fell off a tree and hit me in the eye, which is a story that she told. And that's what this rumor says. Then I have no way to prove if that's true or not. And so as a professional, I'm letting my school counselors know and my admin know so the proper steps can be taken.
00:47:43
Speaker
Now, I do know that kids, I'm sure, who are being abused at home could hide those bruises and they probably become experts at hiding them. Right. And I'm not saying like she wasn't abused. Right. Because she potentially could have been. Right. But I would think that any decent teacher, if you see markings on a child, would inform what, child protective services? I would hope so. Or something. Yeah.
00:48:10
Speaker
And none of that happens. So again, that's just a rumor that's never been proven. OK. But according to Vicki, she says, and again, this goes back to what you said earlier, and you'll get it in a second. But a local man named Oscar Mike Kearns, and he goes by Mike, is responsible for Lee's disappearance. And we're going to talk about him next. OK. So this is who Mom says is responsible. Yes. Yes.
00:48:40
Speaker
So I cannot, like we said, wrap my head around a mama hurting her own baby. I also cannot wrap my head around the scenario with Mike either because Mike was like a vacation Bible school teacher.
00:48:56
Speaker
He was a church leader at the church where Vicki and Lee attended. And there are few people that I hold to super high standards, but if you are a teacher or a leader in your church, then you're being held to a higher standard by me because I grew up like where my Sunday school leaders and church leaders were like amazing men and women to look up to. Absolutely.
00:49:23
Speaker
But obviously this is not the case with Mike. I know it's not uncommon for children of all victims to like sex hungry and evil people in some churches. But it shatters me that this type of evil exists in the world and people claim that Mike
00:49:45
Speaker
is responsible for what happened to Lee and that she would have been comfortable enough with him to open the door if he had like come to check on her or something like that because she knew in her church. That does make sense, but had he ever done anything like bad? Well, he is never arrested in connection with Lee's case.
00:50:09
Speaker
But he does get arrested for very disturbing things. So Mike actually, after Lee's disappearance, is arrested because he abducted a 15-year-old girl from her home in Memphis, Tennessee, sexually assaulted her and released her. And he had known that victim because he had moved to Tennessee and was a church leader in her church.
00:50:38
Speaker
Oh, see, that doesn't look good to me because here's why that seems bad. And it makes me, in my mind, link him as the perpetrator because if he moved, you know, basically right after Lee's disappearance, because sometime in that time he moved from Tupelo to Memphis, Tennessee, and the sexual assault
00:51:07
Speaker
And the fact that, you know, her nightgown and bra were left there means at some point she didn't have them on. Yes. And this is not the only case where Mike rapes someone. So he does plead guilty to rape, in a sense, only eight years in prison.
00:51:35
Speaker
Um, which is disgusting, but he has released less than four years after, which again, so my students and I, when we were doing, um, like argumentative writing, read about juvenile jail time and like,
00:51:52
Speaker
being put in like a juvenile delinquent system versus like rehabilitation and do we think that like they need to be sentenced like their punishment seems to be harder so they like learn a lesson or do we need to try to rehabilitate them and it talked about a person that committed like
00:52:13
Speaker
like assault, I think, and was released early for like really good behavior. And then four months after he was released, murdered someone. Gosh. And that's hard because if the purpose of jail is rehabilitation, then you want to hope a lesson has been learned.
00:52:34
Speaker
And for Mike, it was not learned. He learned nothing because after his release, he kidnapped a married couple and raped the wife and subsequently was sent back to jail. Oh my gosh. And this part, I don't understand, again, like we're not lawyers, but he's been, like he has refused to be interviewed, which I can, like, I feel like, yeah, that you had the right to say, yes, I'll be interviewed or no, I won't. But like, if you didn't do anything,
00:53:03
Speaker
I mean, I get, I say that, but then we see people who didn't do anything be tried for stuff they didn't do all the time. Right. Um, he's also refused to take a polygraph test in regards to Lee's disappearance. Hmm. Question too, like to, to what extent should you be able to, cause I mean, obviously prisoners have rights.
00:53:29
Speaker
You know, then like, to what extent like, should you be able to force a prisoner to take a polygraph? Right. Or like, is there a court order that can be put into place that makes someone have to do a polygraph test or are they all voluntary? Like, I don't know the answer to that. I don't know the answer to that either. So somebody wandering minds want to know. Yeah.
00:53:54
Speaker
we want to know. So the last person that we're going to talk about is Vicky's
00:54:01
Speaker
like second ex-husband, Barney. Oh, so the stepdad, the one who the glasses were sent to, okay. Right. So one suspicious fact about Barney is that the glasses that appeared at Honey Locust were addressed to him. And Barney does take a polygraph test, and so does her biological father does as well. And they both passed those polygraph tests. Barney is able to provide a substantial alibi.
00:54:31
Speaker
for where he was during that time. And that like he's never really looked into more than that, but I still have some suspicions about him. I still have suspicions about like all three of these people. And I'm sure there's probably more people that I would be suspicious of as well. Right. But according to the article, The Disappearance of Lee Ochi,
00:54:57
Speaker
Rumors, again rumors, had been spread around town regarding his alleged violent behavior towards Lee. So a friend of the family had claimed that they'd heard that Barney would whip Lee and hit her. And her boyfriend Jordan said that Barney would sometimes lock her out of their house as a punishment. And that he claimed
00:55:27
Speaker
that she had told him she was scared of her stepfather. And I guess part of my issue too is if all these people know about it, then you know Vicki knew about it too.
Call to Action: Seeking Justice for Lee
00:55:42
Speaker
Right. And again, it is rumors. And I know like as a child, you sometimes can't
00:55:56
Speaker
like process everything that's going on in your mind and you know maybe when she thought she was locked out of her house like she really wasn't right you know i mean i don't know but her dad donald also told police that barney had confessed to him that he abused lee
00:56:14
Speaker
Well, if I'm Donald, I'm busting up in that place and I'm being like, my daughter's not staying here then. And I don't, and I don't know if it was after her disappearance that he said that, which again, if I was Donald, I would be busting Barney in the face. Um, but.
00:56:36
Speaker
He does tell police of that, but the detective working the case said they never found any evidence of any abuse that occurred. And Vicki also added that Lee never expressed her any alleged fears of Barney. Hmm. I guess I'm super torn here because generally, if a child says that there's abuse going on, there's abuse going on. Yeah, children usually don't lie.
00:57:05
Speaker
Right. And so like generally you can trust those statements of a young person, but it saddens me that there are so many viable potential suspects in this case. Yes. And it's like,
00:57:26
Speaker
I mean, obviously it's sad anytime someone dies before their time. But I think it's even more heartbreaking when you think about someone dying at the hands of someone they thought loved them. And that's what breaks my heart for Lee. And we have really
00:57:48
Speaker
nothing else. There was like one instance that a skull was found in like a park like a state park I believe and it was falsely identified as Lee's through dental records but they I guess didn't have Lee's most up-to-date dental records and then it ended up being that was not Lee. It was another like a little bit older lady but I mean we really don't have any new developments in her case.
00:58:16
Speaker
Our story today centers around a struggling family struggling to find a way to cope with losing a daughter, struggling to find out what happened to their daughter and why. Struggling to carry on with life. Carrie Ryan said it best. You stay safe. You love. You survive. You laugh and cry and struggle and sometimes you fail and sometimes you succeed.
00:58:39
Speaker
you push. So let's keep pushing for answers in this case, Blue Towns. Anyone with any information can contact Lee's local police department at 662-841-6491 or you can contact the FBI at 202-324-3000.
00:59:01
Speaker
Again, please like and join us on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and to see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Instagram at Coffee Cases podcast and on TikTok at Coffee and Cases podcast. Or you can always email us suggestions to Coffee and Cases podcast at gmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so that more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families.
00:59:28
Speaker
Don't forget to write our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon. Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.