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S02E21: Part 2: Affirmingly Analyzing Andor Season 2, Arc 4
20 Plays5 days ago
Rebellions are built on prequels that cast the story in a new light... and we got that and then some! Come hear Bob, Ben, and Phil's final thoughts on Andor Season 2, and how they lead into both Rogue One and A New Hope.
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Transcript
Final Thoughts on Andor at Dawn
00:00:01
Speaker
It's our final thoughts on Andor coming up now. Aren't you a little short? Aren't you a little short? Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?
00:00:13
Speaker
Wow, it is 4.30 a.m. in Oak Park, Illinois, and I am putting together this
Themes of Sacrifice and Hope
00:00:20
Speaker
episode. So it is our last view of Andor, which I want to be yelling about because it was so good.
00:00:27
Speaker
But I have to be quiet because there are people asleep. So I'm going to turn it over to me and Ben and Phil. Here we are. I'll just say like one thing overall that I've been thinking about is sacrifice for the greater purpose and hope, right?
00:00:44
Speaker
It's something that, you know, we brought this up already a little bit in this episode, but, you know, we all sacrifice for the rebellion that, you know, they talk about, right?
Tonal Shifts from Rogue One to Episode Four
00:00:51
Speaker
And we really do see that over the next, you know, over the two seasons of Andor. And man, do we see it in Rogue One with the entire team getting destroyed for the sake of sending the plans to Leia.
00:01:04
Speaker
So just something that, out you know, just really, really powerful. And again, the and the ending to Rogue One, I think is just like, as kind of the ultimate culmination of Cassian's story, him and Jyn embracing is just, I think, so like heartbreaking and a gut punch given that we've watched two seasons of him.
00:01:21
Speaker
Yeah. Does Luke Skywalker seem a little less than? was going to say, you're going to have such a huge tone shift if you go right from Rogue One then to Episode Four after having seen Andor.
00:01:32
Speaker
I think i'm gonna I was going to do that. didn't have time to, but I think I'll do that this week and watch, because I haven't watched that movie. Sorry, know it's Star Wars podcast in a really long time. So i will be I will be watching that, I think, this week,
Rewatching Rogue One and Episode Four
00:01:43
Speaker
hopefully.
00:01:43
Speaker
Well, that's actually what I did on the plane to Chicago, you guys, was I watched, that was when I did my Rogue One rewatch, and then I went right into episode four, and I watched episode four, had been a while since I've seen that you have any whiplash?
00:01:55
Speaker
A little bit, because, you know, it's like, you go from that and the depth and the heaviness of the conclusion of Andor and the conclusion of Rogue One, and in story time, just a couple of days later, Luke Skywalker is whining about going to Tosche Station.
00:02:11
Speaker
you know, it's just incredible. All a sudden the stormtroopers get stunningly less competent. Yeah, exactly. They're a little bit less frightening. um But yeah, it's...
00:02:24
Speaker
i you can't let it color your appreciation for the original trilogy. You know, you just got to acknowledge this is the place in the story. This is where
Cassian vs. Luke Skywalker: Chronological Viewing
00:02:33
Speaker
it fits. It all still works together.
00:02:35
Speaker
But, you know, if you were to show sit somebody down and show them everything in chronological sequence, I think they would get to episode four and be like, why did you kill off Cassian and replace him with this Luke Skywalker?
00:02:48
Speaker
yeah Yeah. I have to think that Empire then probably ah sits a little more comfortably in line with Andor and Rogue One too. Yeah. starts to pull the depth in a little bit more.
00:03:00
Speaker
Yeah. That's incredible.
Speculation on Supporting Characters' Fates
00:03:02
Speaker
Now I just saw, speaking of like the connection back to episode four, I saw somebody online speculate that Clea and Vel and Wilman would all probably have been in the throne room for that ceremony at the end of episode four, where Han and Luke and not Chewie get their medals. you know And you got to kind of wonder, like you know would would they have been sitting here going like, why did these guys get medals? Like, look at what we did, right?
00:03:39
Speaker
But that the moment that I loved was Clea's last moment. Because I just think her arc through these last three episodes is fascinating, right? She's so devastated by Luthen's death that she almost just doesn't know how to function.
00:03:54
Speaker
And Vel, who has been an antagonist of hers all the way through, or at least has been a rival, really pulls her out of it and helps her see that, yeah, it's not just a code phrase. You really do have friends.
00:04:09
Speaker
Everywhere. You can make a home here in Yavin and be part of this and how instrumental she was in making this happen. And she gets that slight little smile just at the very end where it's kind of like, okay, Clay is going to be all right.
00:04:24
Speaker
This is super cool. um i am super happy to never see Clea and Val and Wilman in another filmed Star War again. But, you know, it seems like right fodder for a few novels or comic books.
00:04:38
Speaker
Yeah.
Luthen's Relief in Final Moments
00:04:39
Speaker
Speaking of slight smiles, can we talk about Luthen's slight smile at the end? Did any anybody else notice this? When Clea pulls the respirator off of him and he has kind of this like sigh of relief and there's just the slightest smirk on his face as he drifts off.
00:04:57
Speaker
And I was like, oh my god, he's free. and I was like that's I was like that is so so interesting I think I'm gonna have to go back and watch I did not notice that I just just like the littlest bit of like sigh of relief and just the slightest like uh contentness on his face at least that's the way I read it I do think there is like a little bit of a smile on his face and I was like that's so interesting to think about like he is sort of free of this burden now that he has been
00:05:29
Speaker
Because you know he has taken on so much and sacrificed so much for the Rebellion. and And now he now he's free of his responsibilities. yeah It's interesting, too. you know He says the thing with Dedra that she's too late, the Rebellion is up and flown away.
00:05:43
Speaker
And i wonder if between him, and this kind of ties back to your comment about Clea, Bob, I wonder if they both together had kind of felt like, well, we're kind of out of this thing. you know This is no longer...
00:05:55
Speaker
you know, yeah here, it's no longer what we're doing. We're we're maybe kind of information nodes were kind of hidden carefully, but our work here really principally is done, you know, and so when Clea sees that she still has a place in this thing and that she in fact has a legacy in this thing.
00:06:09
Speaker
Yeah. And maybe, you know, when, when Luthen, you know, begins to open his eyes in the next life or become one with the force or whatever it might be, you know, maybe he's starting to feel unburdened.
00:06:21
Speaker
It takes a lot of Jedi training to become a Force ghost. But yeah, I run with you on that. That's really cool. ah The Force is with him. He is one with the Force. Yeah, the Force is with him. Absolutely.
Emotional Depth: Cassian's Child and B2
00:06:34
Speaker
um Luthan does say, you know, he he says, there's there's no Yavin for me. Like yeah he is never going to go there. And I think for him, it is part of the, the sunrise that he will, you know, that he has been fighting for that he will never see.
00:06:48
Speaker
And yeah I think he, he realized he was done. And that's part of the reason why he insisted that it was him who was going to go back and burn everything and hopefully get Clea out and and still surviving in the future.
00:07:03
Speaker
So let's talk a little bit about Cassian Jr. though okay so first off first off i was so happy to see b2 and to see b2 happy because if we had not gotten closure on b2 i would have you know i was pitchforks and torches when i saw b2 my first thought was like oh bob's gonna be so happy yeah yeah i am I was ecstatic. And just to see him so happy that like now he has a best friend, you know, the little weird looking yellow droid or whatever that was. So that was great.
00:07:41
Speaker
But it did definitely led the whole thing with with Cassian's baby and Vix's baby is it did add an extra dimension to why she left in the first place.
00:07:52
Speaker
Because at first it was kind of like, well, should she have left? Maybe she should have. Maybe she shouldn't. She seemed to be a little bit um swayed by the Force healers, quote unquote, prophecy around Cassian that that was driving it. But, you know, should she have stayed or not?
00:08:12
Speaker
But knowing that she knew that she was having a kid. And that if Cassian knew that she was having a kid, there's no way he would have stuck with it. He would have been gone.
00:08:26
Speaker
And her belief that Cassian needed to be there to actually win the war, to win the battle. we now and you want state a marars spin yeah When you watch it the first time, you think, oh, she's taking that choice out of his hands about whether or not they're going to have a future together. And you're just thinking about the two of them. Yes. But then reading it back again now, realize she you wouldn't have even been a discussion for him, to your point.
00:08:54
Speaker
yeah Yeah. He'd been like, this is it. I'm pulling the trigger. We're getting out of here. Especially because he'd grown up as an orphan and he probably knew how valuable... having Marva was there for him and all those kinds of things. I think he probably would have really prioritized being a good parent.
00:09:11
Speaker
Yeah.
Perrin's Knowledge of Mon's Rebellion
00:09:13
Speaker
Well, speaking of resolutions, there's another thing, another interesting thing that I just read today is Perrin's resolution, right? So we see in episode 12, Perrin in the Coruscant limousine flying there with,
00:09:33
Speaker
Scaldin's wife, right? So something's going on and he's got an interesting look on his face. And here's the interesting tidbit that I just read about today that It seems that there was a scene, I don't know if they filmed it and they cut it or they just never filmed it.
00:09:50
Speaker
But the idea was, Mon was going to go back and kind of have a final confrontation with him. And, you know, but before she basically peaced out and moved to Yavin and have a final confrontation with him.
00:10:05
Speaker
And he was going to say, man I knew the whole time what you were doing. I was aware of what you were doing and I covered for you the whole time. I was interrogated every week and I covered for you.
00:10:17
Speaker
And had you just brought me in, we could have been partners on this and I could have helped you. ah Wow. Wow. And that was it.
00:10:28
Speaker
Maybe. I still think he's a schmuck. um I think my headcanon, I prefer him being a schmuck, but that would have been an interesting, it would have been an interesting twist and just another notch on the sacrifice scale and how making something like this happen, like, you know, overthrowing the emperor of the galaxy takes such secrecy and you know, you've got to be so careful that you sometimes have to make these decisions. I'm not going to trust this person. And in hindsight, you realize that you could have sad, too bad, move on.
00:11:09
Speaker
But that would have added a different twist. Well, interestingly, and I did see a different commenter online talk about this, that the scene with him, with Skulden's wife, Um, some people may had been thinking that that was, you know, Oh, were they having an affair or something like that?
00:11:24
Speaker
Um, but this commenter said, you know, golden probably got revealed as the guy who was bankrolling all this stuff. Who knows? Maybe he like, yeah if you think about that, then now you've got the, the spouses of these two characters who are now fully committed to the rebellion who are just going like, Oh my gosh, this is like the worst day ever.
00:11:45
Speaker
Yeah.
Perrin's Future and Imperial Scrutiny
00:11:46
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. his The look on his face, and I think he has a glass of some kind of you know alcohol in his hand. Face bourbon. Yeah. and And just the like, it's just sort of like the thousand yard stare on his face and just seems like so so discontent, talking about contentment, so discontent with where his life is right now and just seem like maybe waiting for the waiting for the bitter end.
00:12:10
Speaker
um And that was it was such an interesting moment because it wasn't something I expected to see at the end of Andor. I thought we had seen maybe the last of him. But it was really interesting. and now that youre bring that up, Bob, that is a really, I would have loved to see that kind of final confrontation. I think that would have added just another layer Mon Mothma's story.
00:12:28
Speaker
Yeah. I have to imagine though that like, i mean, this is is fan stuff, but this is a fan podcast. so But i I kind of wonder if like the more effective thing would have been to see him at their house.
00:12:41
Speaker
Mon's of course gone, there's a bunch of Imperials like tossing the place. and Oh, yeah. just You know what I'm saying? like I felt like it was interesting that they didn't show him being shaken down or having em Imperial. like The way that all the Imperials have been breathing down everybody else's necks, I would have thought that the spouse of the person who had just launched that tirade against Palpatine you know would have had a lot more adverse attention.
00:13:10
Speaker
Exactly. lot of scrutiny on that guy. So it is interesting to think about. Well, guys, we are coming to the end of our time.
Emotional Journey and Storytelling in Andor
00:13:19
Speaker
it has been an absolute pleasure watching this show and reviewing it with you. So thank you so much for doing that.
00:13:26
Speaker
Any like final thoughts that you want to share with our listeners about this whole experience? You know, Bob, when we first when you first brought this idea to me of, you know, Phil, I know you're not like the biggest Star Wars guy, but I think you would really like Andor based on your movie tastes.
00:13:44
Speaker
And I was like, sure, I'll give it a shot. You know, again, like, and I've talked about it before on this podcast, like, obviously, some of these movies, like, I've only been seeing for the first time, especially like the recent trilogy ah the sky of the Skywalker saga. but Man, Andor was just such a joy to watch. And I'll say, i think use this word, Bob, emotionally invested.
00:14:03
Speaker
i I was incredibly emotionally invested throughout this series. And I think especially, and just to bring it back to the that final ending of Rogue One, the the ending of Andor's story with Jyn on the beach was just heartbreaking. And I was like, oh, you know, I've watched this guy now for 24 episodes and a whole movie.
00:14:24
Speaker
and just absolutely gutted, but also like there's a level of pride, I think, in his story and what his evolution what he was able to do for the rebellion. So ultimately it was just like such an interesting experience to watch and just see, you know, what can be done in the larger universe of Star Wars with these like interesting visual techniques, storytelling techniques and themes brought in. And I just thought it was, as you said, it was a pure joy.
00:14:50
Speaker
Yeah.
Reflections on Andor's Success
00:14:51
Speaker
I'll say that's kind of a good launching point for my kind of final thought, which is that I think what's really neat about this, and this is kind of a flavor of something I've said earlier, but I think it's great that this gives us an interesting new set of future options. I'm very keen to see what they do with Star Wars next because now this has worked.
00:15:13
Speaker
Mandalorian's worked. They've got, interestingly, I think, andly friends I think there's some wins and I think there's some L's on the scoreboard when it comes to Star Wars and how it's, how it's been managed and some of the different TV series and so forth. And I think what's good is that having ah really solid, clear win, think helps them know that like, yeah, you know, this is what it takes to make something really great.
00:15:38
Speaker
Yeah. And we can do that. It's not just that we've got adverse fans or that the brand is tired or something like that. Heaven forbid, you know, but yeah. there are going to be certain differences in the way that you want to handle production and planning and producing and all the things that go into making this what it was. I have to imagine somebody behind the scenes is going, how was this managed versus how one of our less series successful series
Episode Conclusion and Preview
00:15:59
Speaker
was managed. And yeah, I can learn from that.
00:16:01
Speaker
I've seen a bunch of stories about how well-received it is by critics, how it's you know highest rated show, blah, blah, blah, bla blah all that kind of stuff. I'm interested to hear if Disney ever releases it, what the viewership numbers are.
00:16:15
Speaker
Because with season one of Andor, it was very critically acclaimed, but apparently not quite as many people watched it. And I'm hoping that, I think Disney's been very effective with the marketing with this, kind of for a change.
00:16:30
Speaker
um I hope that between that and also the tremendous word of mouth that this show has gotten, that people are are out there watching it and we're recruiting people. So...
00:16:41
Speaker
All right, folks, we are a little bit over, so I'm going to call it a wrap here. i think I'm going to have some more thoughts on Andor next week. So I kind of want to process everything and then do a little bit of an overview of the entire journey.
00:16:52
Speaker
So look forward to that. We'll see you next Tuesday. In the meantime, hit like, hit subscribe, tell all your friends. May the force be with you. We'll see you soon. Bye-bye. Who's got mindless chores to do?
00:17:03
Speaker
Podcasts, hope you see them through. Star Wars is your favorite in it. Let's chat for 15 minutes. Aren't you a little short? Aren't you a little short?
00:17:14
Speaker
Aren't you a little short for a scorn trooper? Aren't you a little short for us?