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S02E29: Expeditiously Chatting with EK Johnston, Part Three
30 Plays2 months ago
What's it like to see your story come to life on the screen? What's it like to hear the audiobook reader record the screams? And what do we call the Padme Books anyway? Find out the answers to all these questions and more as we wrap up our chat with Star Wars author EK Johnston!
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Transcript
Interview Introduction and Ahsoka Novel Adaptation
00:00:00
Speaker
We are wrapping things up with Star Wars author E.K. Johnston, and we're doing it real quick. Aren't you a little short? Aren't you a little short? Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?
00:00:14
Speaker
Welcome back to Short for a Stormtrooper and the third and final episode of our three-part interview with Star Wars author E.K. Johnston. You should go back and listen to the first two if you haven't listened to them yet.
Interpreting Ahsoka in Tales of the Jedi
00:00:26
Speaker
But where we pick up here on the third one, we are talking about her Ahsoka novel and the fact that the story was kind of pretty much translated into animated form in the first season of Tales of the Jedi.
00:00:40
Speaker
So we'll pick it up right there with Kate. It was fun because um i was at Celebration when the trailer aired um and i was i was outside for some reason.
00:00:51
Speaker
was outside. I think of it was a Padme meetup or possibly an Ahsoka meetup. I don't remember. um And my phone started beeping a lot. And I was like, oh, I guess there's been an Ahsoka reveal because people are tagging me. And i I looked it up and I was like, oh, okay, cool, cool.
00:01:05
Speaker
We're going to have visuals of some scenes. And it's not like a super tight match, but it doesn't matter because um the way that Dave pictured it and the way that I pictured are always going to be different. And so um you get that sort of like, I guess, multiple tellings of the story, um which is almost more fun in a lot of ways, because it means that like, if you have your own interpretation of it, then like, that's okay too.
00:01:29
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. I thought that they complemented each other very well. It was kind of the Cliff Notes adaptation of the whole story. so Yeah. Yeah, that's wonderful. Yeah, I was in the room there when it happens in Anaheim.
00:01:42
Speaker
Yeah. And yeah, people were pretty sighted about getting Horasoka. So that was wonderful. Yeah.
Naming the Queen Trilogy
00:01:49
Speaker
Let's transition and talk about the Queen novels.
00:01:53
Speaker
what What do you call that? that Do you call it the Queen trilogy? I used to At one point, Jen was like, what are we calling this trilogy? And I was like, do we have to call it something? And she was like, for Amazon, yes. And I was like, I don't know. So it's like the Queen's cycle. Yeah, sometimes it's the Queen's trilogy or the Padme trilogy. Or sometimes I've seen it as the Handmaiden trilogy. I usually just call them the Padme books.
00:02:18
Speaker
um Yeah, so that was my original proposal, as I said.
Connection with Padme and Natalie Portman
00:02:23
Speaker
Yeah. um And you said you felt such a connection to Padme from that initial viewing, yeah right? Yes, yes.
00:02:29
Speaker
Phantom Menace. We were the same age. She had great fashion sense and like a lot of friends and a blaster. um And that was pretty cool. Um, and I really liked her sense of self.
00:02:42
Speaker
And I also, ah really liked Natalie Portman, um, who was not that much older than me. And, um, she was so at the time, not what I was conditioned to expect of an actress.
00:02:55
Speaker
Um, there were all like, there's, uh, behind the scenes pictures of her. And a lot of the times when they're doing like costume adjustments or whatever, she's reading, So she's like holding a book in one hand and turning the pictures um because they don't really need her to do anything other than stand there.
00:03:09
Speaker
And she's reading in almost all of them. And I was definitely one of those kids who like, I'll just take my book out and start reading, I guess, if you're not going to make me do anything right now. um And to see like a famous person doing that was like, see, it's not just me. I'm not crazy.
00:03:24
Speaker
Yeah. Um, so it was really cool to have her, um, as like a, I guess, role model. yeah i I don't think she likes being a role model, like, which is, I understand because it's a little bit nerve wracking.
00:03:35
Speaker
Um, but i think that's part of the Saturday night live yeah song is part that. Yeah. Um, but the other thing too, is that I grew up, um, during the time when we were not particularly kind to Gary Fisher.
00:03:48
Speaker
So I didn't really have like the same like relationship with her or parasocial relationship with her as a person um because I didn't know any of the good things about her. I only knew the like tabloid stuff.
00:04:01
Speaker
um I didn't know that she was like responsible for every time you laughed in a movie from like 1995 until 2010. And like, yeah I didn't know like any of that stuff. um until much, much later. And so having Natalie Portman as someone to like understand a little bit better um was was really good.
00:04:20
Speaker
Natalie seems very chill, which is kind of my, you know, as somebody who lives in l LA, is I find when I run into celebrities, which isn't, it's not like, you know, every day, but to me it's like the
Transforming Criticisms into Strengths for Padme
00:04:32
Speaker
more the higher they are up the a-list like yeah more down to earth they tend to be and just easy to talk to really relational it seems like natalie is that way yeah i remember she did an interview once um i think it would have been after black swan where she talks about like when she when she had the oscar she didn't know what she was gonna do with it because it's like not she's the kind of jewish person where you're not supposed to have like idols
00:04:54
Speaker
So she was like, what do I do with this thing? So she like keeps it in the bathroom for like perspective or something like that. Her bathroom is probably the size of my house, but like, actually maybe not. She's very down to earth, as you said. But like, I also, i remember her like doing videos of like making her kids lunches because she wanted to like make vegan lunches that didn't suck or something. And like, they're not ridiculous either. Like they're very normal kid lunches. Like her kitchen is insane, but like the lunch itself is very, i could do that theoretically, guess. Yeah.
00:05:23
Speaker
um which was kind of cool. So like she was always kind of that like down to earth person. I remember in the the making of episode one of Phantom Menace documentary, which I think you can still get now if few you get the digital version.
00:05:39
Speaker
um It's the end of the first day of shooting. So she's like in all of her pod mate regalia. And then she just goes, good night, everybody. Sounds like a 14 year old girl, you know? And and George is like, a good night. He's kind of giggly. Cause it's like, Oh my gosh, she's just given this rock star performance.
00:05:58
Speaker
And then the queen with all of the grandeur. And now she's just like, okay, I'm going to go home and go hang out with my friends for a little bit. yeah I just love that. That's great. yeah Well, how did you use all that information to flesh out Padme's character too, if you did? and yeah So Padme was interesting because she's the one that I definitely spent the most time thinking about. So when I was writing it, I had to be like, did I come up with this? Did I read this on an internet chat room in like the early aughts?
00:06:24
Speaker
Or like, is it some combination thereof? Um, because, you know, I ah had experienced a little bit of the Padme fandom, not like I hadn't been in it, but I like knew I was aware of it.
00:06:36
Speaker
Yeah. And so i was trying to think of like ways to do stuff and I knew it was going to be costume related and i knew it was going to be, um makeup related and basically everything that anybody had ever, um, like criticized her for,
00:06:51
Speaker
was going to be like a weapon. and Yeah.
Exploring Darker Themes in the Queen's Trilogy
00:06:55
Speaker
ah Because something on purpose. Yeah. Because um it's mostly over, but like there was a very long period there where like you would be reading something about like Jaws 2 or like literally something totally unrelated. would be like, and it kind of sucked. like the Star Wars prequels. And you're like, why would you even say that? Like, why did you need to say that? They were fine and they have nothing to do with this.
00:07:17
Speaker
um And like that, that would crop up every once in a while. And you're like, she gave a really wooden performance or her voice was really monotone or like, why did the dress look like that? Or like, she looks all like the other girls, all that kind of stuff. And I was just like, that's how she gets you. um So i i I basically just went after it like that.
00:07:37
Speaker
um And ah came up with ways to sort of take things that she had been criticized for and make them into her strengths, basically, or tools, at least.
00:07:50
Speaker
I loved that. That was great. I'll tell you, the thing that stuck with me the most from the whole trilogy Because I'm an old man, Kate, in my memory. Like, I read a book and then it's like, wait, what was that about?
00:08:01
Speaker
But the thing that really struck ah stuck with me was the idea of Sabe basically being tortured. That... Sashay. Sashay. Well, I know it ends in an A sound.
00:08:16
Speaker
What that would have been like, like I had never, I had given literally zero thought cycles to the idea of the people of Naboo are being oppressed. They're being, you know, held captive.
00:08:29
Speaker
um yeah There's this whole embargo and how rough life would have been for them. And you really flesh that out, which I loved. I remember at one point there was a conversation and um pablo hidoglo Pablo Hidalgo is great for storytelling purposes because he will always come up with like the most, and want to say boring, but like the most practical way to do something.
00:08:49
Speaker
And then you'll be like, wouldn't be more exciting if we did this? Like, it's it's amazing. The way that he builds stories is very different from how I build stories. And so i always really love talking back and forth with him. And that was one of the things because Bibble has that message.
00:09:01
Speaker
Bibble has that message where he sends the message to being like, we're being devastated or whatever. And um Pablo had said, you know, we had always operated kind of under the assumption that that was like a huge exaggeration that he was like, just that it was a trap. Basically it was the bait in the trap to try to get her back home.
00:09:21
Speaker
So maybe Bibble was being tortured, but like the planet wasn't being tortured. And I was like, cool cool cool, cool, cool. We're going to torture the whole planet. And so I, and they let me, they were totally fine with being like, cool, like just, you know, what's it going to look like?
00:09:34
Speaker
Spell it out for us, that kind of stuff. And the sashay thing um happened in Queen's shadow. So because I did a true Star Wars and went middle, beginning, end,
00:09:45
Speaker
um the In Queen's Shadow, you find out that Sasha has the scars and that like she's a hero on the planet because of what she did during the occupation and like all that kind of stuff.
00:09:55
Speaker
um And then when I sat down to write Queen's Peril, um I knew that it was going to be pretty bleak.
Intense Themes in Star Wars Middle-Grade Books
00:10:04
Speaker
um Originally, um the original book had set up um things that were happening in Padme's life against things that were happening in Leia's life.
00:10:15
Speaker
um ah because when you when you propose a Star Wars book, you like shoot for the moon and then they give you a Death Star, which is fine too because can do a lot with Death Star. And so when I had proposed the original book, the Sashay parts were directly in conversation with Leia getting tortured on the Death Star, which we also don't see.
00:10:36
Speaker
And perhaps one of my favorite non-visible torture scenes of all time, which is Han. They never even asked me any questions. and Right. Like you just hear him screaming and you see some like electricity sounds and stuff like that.
00:10:47
Speaker
But like they they didn't even ask him anything. They were just trying to hurt him. And so when you have that, like that kind of feeling, I wanted to see what I could do. And I kind of forgot, kind of forgot she was 12 while I was doing it.
00:10:59
Speaker
But, um, yeah. it It just, it made the most sense from a narrative perspective. And so ah the one thing I did not realize was that on the audio book, Catherine Tabor reads the audio books and she does an amazing job, but she also recorded the screaming for that part.
00:11:16
Speaker
So if you listen to the audio book, which I haven't done, because listening to audio books is really hard for me because it's like, looking at yourself and like possibly all of your mistakes ever it's just yeah yeah it's really difficult for me or they use little bit different intonation than you you know were thinking of when you wrote it and all or yeah literally yeah it's a bunch of different stuff but I really struggle listening to audiobooks of my own thing which is too bad because they're all really good um but so someone messaged me and was like there's a lot of screaming in in the sachet section and I was like well I guess that makes sense um the audiobook guy at Penguin was like
00:11:50
Speaker
a huge Star Wars fan. So he was like really into like mixing and music and, and sound effects and all that kind of stuff. um I think it was just a little bit more intense than any of us were expecting. um But it was also really important to me because one of the things that I have always found about Star Wars, and I say it kind of as a joke, but like the darkest things that happen in Star Wars almost always happen in the middle grade books.
00:12:13
Speaker
um which are the books for like nine and 12 year olds or nine to 12 year olds. a Bomber Command by Elizabeth Ween has one of the like darkest world building elements ever in terms of how the First Order gets rid of their captains.
00:12:26
Speaker
Um, and, uh, Jason Fry has the like Ray's diary book and the page that I just remember, like having to set the book down and being like, Oh my God, Jason, like Jesus.
00:12:40
Speaker
It's a picture of the X-Wing. yeah And Ray has labeled it each part with how many food portions she got for each part that she took in And then in the bottom corner, it just says like, thank you, yellow seven or something like that. And I was like, I need to go lie down. oh yeah right this is the car So i really kind of wanted to, you know, people will be like, oh, it's adult. It's really dark and gritty. I'm like, is it though? Like, have you read these books for 10 year olds? They are pretty intense. Yeah.
00:13:10
Speaker
So I really wanted to sort of play into that because the Clone Wars is like that too as a show. It's very intense. And Rebels is as well. And so I really wanted to sort of like honor the kids who can like not handle it because kids shouldn't have to, but like who understand that that part is part of the storytelling.
00:13:27
Speaker
And um so I usually say the Ahsoka book is a little bit um a little bit younger. And then the Padme trilogy is like, okay, let's do this now. um Because I wanted to sort of um not like take any steps back.
00:13:43
Speaker
And as you said, like I wanted to think about things that were happening off scene. One of the sort of images from just modern media that's always kind of haunted me ever since I saw it.
Podcast Conclusion with E.K. Johnston
00:13:54
Speaker
was at the end of i want to say civil war but i'm not actually positive um i think it must be civil war all of the like good guys are in the raft or whatever it's called on the marvel raft oh right uh-huh and um it the camera pans around and it's like sam in scrubs and like hawkeye in scrubs and like whatever then it gets to wanda and she's wearing a straight jacket and we've only seen male guards and i was like how does she go to the bathroom How does she eat? yeah
00:14:25
Speaker
And like, that is the kind of thing that i tell stories about because I don't think that just showing it is fair. And that's where we'll leave it. Thank you to EK Johnston for hopping on the podcast and talking with us.
00:14:38
Speaker
We're going a little bit long, so I'll wrap it up here. Do all the social things that you should do. Help me out. Appreciate it. May the force be with you. We'll see you next week. Who's got mindless toys to do?
00:14:49
Speaker
Podcasts help you see them through. Star Wars is your favorite in it. Let's shop for 15 minutes. Aren't you a little short? Aren't you a little short?
00:15:00
Speaker
Aren't you a little short for a smorntroover? Aren't you a little short for a smorntroover?