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Episode 161: Time to Worry?
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Alex and Corey talk about the latest Cavs games and news. We dig into the on-going Cavs struggles and their recent string of losses. Is it time to panic? Do the Cavs need to shake up the roster? Get our take right here!
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Transcript
Introduction and Personal Anecdote
00:00:15
Speaker
Hey Cavs fans, welcome to the Cavs Pick and Roll podcast, a podcast for diehard fans, by diehard fans. I'm Alex and I'm here with Corey. Well, Corey, is there trouble in paradise? I think there is.
00:00:27
Speaker
First of all, it's freezing outside. is so freaking cold, Alex. And my wife's car heater died on her. Oh no. I was driving around the night and in a car with no heat.
00:00:41
Speaker
The minivan. The minivan, yeah. The G-Wagon. The G-Wagon, yeah. Yeah, we call it the swag wag, and it's kind of lost its swag without the heat. I'd say so.
00:00:51
Speaker
You know, if you're married and the wife's car loses heat, guess who's driving that car now? You are. meaning me, until the
Cavaliers' Performance Issues
00:01:01
Speaker
car gets fixed. so Wrapped up in a big coat and scarf. freezing still from having to drive that thing around the night, running the kids around.
00:01:09
Speaker
um And it's just as chilly as our Cleveland Cavaliers lately, unfortunately, Alex. Ice cold, Corey. Ice cold. cold And it's ah pretty frustrating, man.
00:01:23
Speaker
It's been a frustrating... season so far. i can't I can't believe I'm saying that only 27 games in, but something just does not feel right with this team. Yeah, you know, everything I you know, all the overreactions you typically read on social media are all there, right?
00:01:40
Speaker
Blow up the team, fire sale, shake it up. Like, I don't know. You know, we're 26, 27 games into the season. Still in the first half of the season. It's super early. Clearly something is wrong. Nothing's going right.
00:01:55
Speaker
But I still feel it's too early to start panicking. here's Here's a stat for you, Alex. Last year, the Cavs lost 18 games in the entire season. 27 games in, they've already lost 12.
00:02:12
Speaker
So that gives you the trajectory of where they're going this season. And unfortunately, the reoccurring theme for years now is injuries, different starting lineups.
00:02:26
Speaker
And although that could be a factor, we were talking about this
Player Performance and Injuries
00:02:32
Speaker
before we started recording. Alex, I look at this roster. And up until yesterday's game against the Charlotte Hornets, um you know, we had our top three best players play.
00:02:44
Speaker
Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland, Evan Mobley, you know, DeAndre Hunter still running around out there. You know, I mean, like we have enough good players on this team to where they should still be pulling out some wins. Yeah.
00:02:59
Speaker
And they're not. have a lot of thoughts about that. And they're not. And I do think that last season's team overall was better. i mean, I i think a core I'd rather have a Cora right now than Alonzo Ball, who can't hit the backside of a barn.
00:03:14
Speaker
But his shooting is so bad. He's shooting 20% from three over the last five games. He went one for eight, one for five, one for five, zero one game. He loves to chuck him up. Whether he's hitting or not, he'll chuck him up. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he'll shoot it.
00:03:29
Speaker
Um, yeah, uh, we had Ty Jerome and, uh, Hunter coming off the bench last season. And those two are just lightning in a bottle when they're on the court together. Right. Right. And we don't have that this season.
00:03:43
Speaker
Uh, like you said, injuries, six players out injured through most of the the first half of the season so far. And yeah, that's part of it, but. Other teams that we're playing against also have injuries. I mean, we just lost to the Charlotte Hornets, who was basically just Miles Bridges and some rookies. I was like, oh, the Cavs lost to LaMelo Ball.
00:04:06
Speaker
No, no. um The Cavs lost to to Colin Sexton. No, no. They lost to Kemba Walker. No, he's been on a league for a while. Terry Rozier? No, he's not there. Like, Muggsy Boat? Like, who the hell did we just lose to?
00:04:21
Speaker
You're right. it's milesges Miles Bridges. and who played in that And who played in that game, Alex, for the Cavs? Darius Garland, Donovan Mitchell, Jared Allen came back, DeAndre Hunter played, ah Craig Porter Jr. played. Like, again, the talent...
00:04:40
Speaker
is there for the Cavs just for whatever reason. It ain't, it ain't working. And all of a sudden it's like players forgot how to play. This team should be having, we had three all-stars last year, Alex. We we should be right around that three, maybe even four. were thinking that maybe this was a breakout year for, for someone like DeAndre Hunter.
00:04:59
Speaker
um But it's just, man, it's it's tough watching Mitchell have to try to carry the load. The last win they had was the game before against the Washington Wizards, which we'll get into that.
00:05:13
Speaker
But it took Donovan Mitchell putting up 48 points. It's like watching LeBron all over again in his freaking rookie season. And you remember those days, how frustrating it was to watch LeBron have to score 40 points just to try to win a game. And it's just not the way that the Cavs have been successful over the last couple of years. You need team basketball. You need balanced scoring.
00:05:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. ah we've We've lost a lot of scoring. Sam Mitchell's been out. He was our Sam Mitchell. sam Sam Merrill, Sam Merrill, Sam Merrill, Sam the man.
00:05:49
Speaker
Has been out. Jeez, man. Who's going to pick up all the scoring we lost when we lost Ty Jerome? You know, he was good. He was always good for 15 so. Cora was good eight.
00:06:01
Speaker
eight You know, Lonzo Ball doesn't make anything. I will say, i will say, i think people underestimate the Sam Merrill injury. He started off the season so
Coaching and Strategy Concerns
00:06:13
Speaker
hot from the three-point line, came off your bench, you know, has one of the quickest releases in the NBA, and, you know, what was off to a great start to the season and was making an impact. Yeah.
00:06:27
Speaker
And you don't have that now, right? And when you have Lonzo Ball shooting 20%, give me that Garland stat you threw at me right before we started recording. He wasn't much better than than Zo. What was he, 28% I think you said?
00:06:39
Speaker
On the season, he is at... He's shooting, yeah, 28% from three. Yeah. So, I mean, Donovan Mitchell is is is probably knocking down the most threes, right? But nobody else is really stepping in to fill what what Sam was doing earlier in the year, right?
00:07:00
Speaker
And that's huge. That's huge. And you're still missing guys like Max Struess, right? Which I do think will help um when he does come back. But, you know, when is he coming back? We we really haven't heard a ton there, right? Yeah.
00:07:14
Speaker
and we've had a lot of injuries. Jared Allen missed, what, nine games? The Charlotte game was his first game back. Felt like he was on a minute restriction.
00:07:25
Speaker
Got blocked, I think, three, maybe four times by Charlotte's center. a um Really wasn't able to make an impact, right? Jared Allen's also shooting his career low.
00:07:36
Speaker
He is. He's down to 56% field goal percentage. like You're the center. You're within... Six feet of the basket at all times. or well How are you only making half your shots? I was reading he also is playing the least amount of minutes he has since his rookie season.
00:07:51
Speaker
But Jared Allen, man, I mean, he's... he had a total of three rebounds in that Hornets game. Three rebounds and you're the center. No impact, right? And he's typically a double-double guy. Last year, I even went as far to say that the heart of your team.
00:08:05
Speaker
Because everybody else is focused on on your big three, but J.A. was the the difference maker because he was underscouted and just benefited from from the players that were around him. And this year, he hasn't really been able to get going.
00:08:20
Speaker
And as we talked about with Garland, he's been struggling in and out of injuries, definitely not looking like his all-star form that he was a year ago. So there are a lot of things we can point the fingers at, Alex, as far as what's wrong.
00:08:37
Speaker
But I want to ask. is part of it the coaching? Do we need start questioning the coaching at this point, the decisions, the rotations, the strategy? Is there anything there that you're noticing at this point, or is it all injuries slash player play?
00:08:57
Speaker
You know, I i don't know. i don't know if it's coaching. I know that, you know, there were reports of a, a film session that Kenny had that was supposedly very tough. And then afterward, the players had a players only meeting and some things were said. So, i mean, it must be, there must be more to it than, than we know.
00:09:21
Speaker
But at the same time, i i don't know that it is for sure the coaching. i think Kenny's kind of doing what he has to work. He's using what he has to work with. So many players are out.
Upcoming Games and Strategies
00:09:33
Speaker
He had Mobley playing the five and Mobley,
00:09:36
Speaker
was just struggling playing the center position for whatever reason. He he's always on the outside and he's never on the inside. They weren't really feeding him. They weren't really playing the two man game with him first you know, getting any high pick and roll action. I don't know what what that was about.
00:09:53
Speaker
Yeah, I think, I mean, naturally you want him to to be your five. I think that's what the Cavs want. I think the reality is his he's just not built to be a five.
00:10:05
Speaker
I think most nights he's going to be undersized from a weight perspective. He just doesn't have enough girth to him to to bang and to play a five. And I think he's more versatile. Yeah.
00:10:20
Speaker
when he plays the four, because then all of a sudden he has the advantage. He's going to have the height. He's going to be able to out run, you know, outmaneuver, um, some players at that position. Not that he can't at the five as well, but man, we talked about this. i think in the last episode, he catches the ball three point line he's trying to go to the rim.
00:10:39
Speaker
He ain't getting by a lot of people. We talked about how Siakam in that Pacers game, that's how long ago this was. It was like the Great Wall of freaking China. he couldn't get He couldn't get around him at all.
00:10:50
Speaker
And Siakam is, you know, great player, right? But he's not... he's not He's smaller than Mobley, right? And I've seen him have trouble backing down a lot of players when he's far away from the hoop. So I think where he's most dangerous is when you get him in a pick-and-roll situation, throw up a lob.
00:11:13
Speaker
He's going to beat a lot of people down the floor. he can raise up and knock down a three-pointer. But backing down, catching it on the block, I just i don't know if that's Mobley's game.
00:11:25
Speaker
not not at this not not Not yet, at least. you know So making him you know the permanent five or if that's their solution at some point, i don't know if that's going to be the best decision.
00:11:36
Speaker
And as a result, we might not see him continue to take off like he made that leap last year.
Trade Speculation and Team Future
00:11:42
Speaker
It kind of feels like he hasn't gone backwards, but he's definitely not moving forward this year.
00:11:47
Speaker
think he's still trying to figure it out. Yeah. So back to your question, you know a part of it is that You know, those lineups. ah who Who do we have at the five that can be a five that isn't Jared Allen when Jared Allen is out?
00:12:04
Speaker
Well, it's proven to be not Mobley so far. We do plug in Bryant occasionally, but... He's all right. He's all right. He's a, he's a body, right? He's, he's energetic. He could do some things. He's also a little bit, you know, ah yeah he makes some mistakes as well, but you don't really have many options. I mean, the calves are, are forced to play a lot of small ball when, when one of those two guys are out and,
00:12:34
Speaker
Going back to Mobley, we just learned after the the Wizards game that he's going to be out for two to four weeks with a calf injury. And I was telling you, Alex, before we started recording, man, if it's that if it's that longer end of it, the four weeks,
00:12:50
Speaker
man, a lot can happen in four weeks. And, um you know, hopefully, ah you know, they they start to right the ship. But if they don't, if a month goes by and we're still playing how we are or potentially even worse now because we lost Mobley, man, we could be having some very difficult conversations, especially with with the trade deadline not too far after that.
00:13:14
Speaker
so i think This is a pivotal stretch here, I think. It's a pivotal stretch. Didn't I read the trade ah but it's just just started? 99% of players are available or something crazy? Yeah. yeah yeah It'll be interesting to see what the Cavs do. We'll probably touch base on that more in the next episode. It's a little bit premature unless the Cavs do something here sooner than later, which wouldn't shock me if they did.
00:13:39
Speaker
But it's going to be very interesting to see Like I said, about a month from now, where we're at and and what kind of activity is happening, if any, with the Cavs. I don't know, man. Who is it you want, Corey? Who do you want? I don't know who I want. But, I mean, this again, this is year four, Alex, of the core four.
00:13:59
Speaker
And in one of my predicting but in the prediction episode, I said, man, it's they don't go all the way. This is it, right? And and the Cavs might not even give them that chance if they continue to play this way.
00:14:11
Speaker
um you can only point injuries for for so many things. I mean, look at all the teams that we lost to, Alex, and the players they were missing. We lost to the Charlotte Hornets. They didn't have Colin Sexton, LaMelo Ball.
00:14:23
Speaker
um I think Desmond Bain, isn't Desmond Bain? No, he's out in ah Orlando, I think. Orlando, yeah. Yeah. But they were missing their arguably two best players. We've gotten smoked by the Celtics every single time we've played them, including the preseason. No Tatum.
00:14:40
Speaker
We lose to the Hawks. No Trey Young. No Porzingis. Like, the list the list goes on. We lost to the Warriors. The Warriors. Oh, God. Which only really had Buddy Hield and...
00:14:53
Speaker
Kaminga, maybe. Like those are all scenarios the Cavs should have been able to take advantage of because even though during some of those games they had their own injuries, right? Like Allen's out, but you had Mobley. You had Donovan Mitchell.
00:15:07
Speaker
Donovan Mitchell's what? A top five, top 10 player in the league. Like, In most scenarios, that would be enough. That would be enough. So um definitely a lot of things to to digest with the Cavs and a lot of things that they got to figure out.
00:15:23
Speaker
And it's really on on both ends of the floor to Alex. The amount of three-pointers, the Charlotte game, and they were talking about how they were the bottom 10. in the league as far as three-pointers
Team Morale and Future Outlook
00:15:35
Speaker
made. And what'd they hit? Five, six the first quarter?
00:15:39
Speaker
Seven or eight? by I mean, like just the amount of three-pointers that we give up to teams is also astonishing. And we make them look like they're top five three-point team in in the league or something like that.
00:15:53
Speaker
And meanwhile, the Cavs are not shooting as great as they have in years past from the three-point line. So it makes it very tough. And they get down early as a result. And, you know, they're getting down early to to bottom feeder teams, Alex. I mean, the Charlotte Hornets had five wins before that game. Washington Wizards had three wins before that game. We had to come back from double digits with Mitchell playing hero ball, basically.
00:16:18
Speaker
Not a lot of effort on defense. Mediocre shooting. I don't know what else to say about it. Yeah, yeah. it just hasn't been good. It's just a lack of, i don't know if it's a lack of effort.
00:16:30
Speaker
I don't know what's going on, but it has been really piss poor. Yeah, yeah. Is there anybody in the rotation that is maybe getting too many minutes, or is there someone else that you'd like to see get...
00:16:44
Speaker
a chance a little bit more consistently or I think last time we talked about, you know, Tyson and Tomlin doing doing a nice job, um you know, and you can only rely so much on them, right? We can't ask Tomlin to go fill Evan Mobley's role, right? You can't go ask Tyson to go fill Darius Garland when he decides he wants to miss a couple games.
00:17:05
Speaker
You know mean? They're only ah you got to have realistic like expectations. But is there anybody else you could think of on the roster? They're like, ah, man, why why isn't that person getting some more run? Honestly, not really. You know, I would have said Jalen Tyson, but they've been giving him a lot of run, and he's been yeah really good. His defense is great. He's an efficient scorer.
00:17:25
Speaker
yeah I think he's doing everything he can do. you know i don't You know, Tomlin's playing all right. Brian's playing okay. Craig Porter's been playing really well. but it's just not enough. It's not enough to beat these other teams.
00:17:38
Speaker
No, no, it's not. And, you know, I'm looking at this Charlotte game. You know, Dean dean Wade plays 32 minutes, gives you 14 points, not bad, eight rebounds. that's That's solid, even though he was a minus 11.
00:17:53
Speaker
ah Ball played 32 minutes, gives you four eight points, couple assists. um Thomas Bryant gets 15, 14 minutes. Put in 10 points for you.
00:18:04
Speaker
So, I mean, guys are chipping in, but it's not enough to tip the scale in our favor. Craig Porter Jr. only played four minutes in that game. Proctor got some run. But yeah, it's just, man, it just I think it just comes down to effort at this point.
00:18:19
Speaker
And I hope it's not mental. I hope it's not in their heads because that's tough, right? And the Cavs just need to to string some wins and build some confidence.
00:18:30
Speaker
Not to jump too far ahead here, but I mean, looking at their their schedule, Alex, they They've actually been playing against subpar teams or teams that are, again, missing players.
00:18:44
Speaker
ah Before the Warriors game, when they beat the Spurs, they didn't they didn't have Wemby that game. And next game next two games, couple games here, they're going up against the Bulls in back-to-back games. They started off hot this season.
00:18:57
Speaker
um have cooled down as of late. um they'll They'll come into those games, play aggressive. They played us aggressive earlier in the season, and we'll see what happens there. But typically, that should be games that the Cavs would win.
00:19:10
Speaker
They'll get another shot at the Hornets after that, the Pelicans, um and before they before they face off with the Knicks here on on Christmas Day. So they have four games here, Alex, that would typically be considered winnable games for the calves.
00:19:28
Speaker
But I think we're going to see real quick, you know, these, again, this is an important stretch in my opinion. And, it starts with these next couple games because it gets the schedule gets a little bit tougher after that. Right. Absolutely. I mean, we're,
00:19:42
Speaker
We're kind of pissing away a whole bunch of games that we should be winning. Exactly. And there's just no excuse for it. So even though even though i i I somewhat agree, it's early in the season, but man, this is this is a huge window that can make it very hard to recover, even though we're less than 30 games in.
00:20:01
Speaker
The Cavs need to turn it around and and and real fast. They can't take 15, 20 more games to figure it out. They'll be too far behind at that point, in my opinion. If you look at the standings, and I know it's so early, but I already already played the standing game, Alex. there they're ah They're the eighth seed right now.
00:20:20
Speaker
And to be fair, I mean, everybody thought the East was wide open this year. and it And it feels like it kind of is, right? I still don't believe the Pistons are the best team in the East, even though they've been sitting at the top all year long.
00:20:32
Speaker
But Alex, every team, the top nine teams this year, as of today, our our above 500 ball. which that's not that's not the norm.
00:20:43
Speaker
Out West, only the top seven teams are playing above 500 ball right now. So the East is more competitive as as a result. And like I said, the Cavs can't take too much longer to figure things out. Otherwise, they're going get too far behind some of these teams. And we're talking, you know, bottom half of a playoff seed fighting for 6, 7, 8, 9. You don't want to be doing that.
00:21:05
Speaker
There's too many too many good players, too many star players on this team to be in that kind of situation.
00:21:16
Speaker
Kind of running out of ah steam here talking about how bad they're playing. I don't know. Well, Alex, Christmas is right around the corner.
00:21:27
Speaker
So if you had if you can get one Christmas wish granted, what would you wish for? Cavs related here.
00:21:38
Speaker
Sure. We need to get back to our winning ways, is number one. We need to be playing some defense. You know, this Hornets game, You know, what killed me was that they battled back to get into overtime. Donovan Mitchell actually had a and nice little open mid-range jumper that could have won that game and he missed it.
00:21:58
Speaker
He only had 17 points in that game. I think he's, you know, he he actually had an off night that night. He did. That is super rare. But it went into overtime. We couldn't score the ball a single time, single possession in that entire five minutes of overtime.
00:22:18
Speaker
it's ah It's tough. that's That's heartbreaking. I mean, it's... At home. to to sit Yeah, at home to sit there and watch that. The crowd starts booing them. Donovan Mitchell, you know, says, I was a fan once. I would boo i would boo us too.
00:22:34
Speaker
yeah that's That's... It's not the first time they've been booed either. And if they continue to play the way they are, they'll probably continue to get booed, which is obviously not a great look.
00:22:47
Speaker
But I think, yeah, that' that's very frustrating to battle all the way back. Goes scoreless in in OT. That tells you how kind of dysfunctional the offense is right now.
00:22:59
Speaker
But the fact that it's the Charlotte Hornets and they had to battle all the way back from 17 down. and I'm sure, Yeah. And I'm sure everyone else noticed this too, but did you see just how badly they were abusing Garland on the offensive end? Like yes they were taking turns. I think it was Miles Bridges and ah Brandon Miller.
00:23:22
Speaker
Brandon Miller just kept switching on to Garland every possession and then just taking him to the hoop because yep he could not guard him. He couldn't stop. They were just pushing him around. Yeah.
00:23:34
Speaker
That was so frustrating to watch. Yeah, it was. And and Garland's undersized and and in those matchups, right? So um not a ton he can do there. And this is where, you know, yeah you had Jared Allen back in that game, but again, he wasn't able to make a big impact. He didn't have Mobley there. You kind of didn't have your your your your second line of defense when you're undersized guards, whether it's Garland, Mitchell, whoever.
00:24:03
Speaker
Get beat. right that's That's what's made us so great on the defensive end is having you know two seven-footers waiting for you if you do beat our guards. and Yesterday, there was just very little protection um at the rim.
00:24:18
Speaker
and yeah Garland was was was kind of abused yesterday. um We got out rebounded 53 to 46 yesterday in that game, Alex.
00:24:30
Speaker
Yeah, so that's that's been a pretty, pretty common, too, with all these games, just the lack of rebounding, the lack of boxing out other teams getting offensive rebounds over and over and second chance points. It's just killing us.
00:24:43
Speaker
It's just a lack of effort. It's a lack of effort for sure. um and it's it's it's just so bizarre. It's so bizarre because, yeah, you lost a couple. You lost Ty Jerome and you lost Akuro. Besides that, you you have the same team outside of the other are new faces you brought in, right? And the faces that you brought in are not part of your starting lineup or your core rotation.
00:25:09
Speaker
Tyrese Proctor, Thomas Bryant, not part of your core rotation. Lonzo Ball is your backup point guard. but you get what I mean. Like we still have those guys that we had last year when the cows were dominating the league. So it'll be interesting to see, you know, do the calves continue to play the waiting game and, and just have confidence and think that they're just going to snap out of it.
00:25:32
Speaker
Kenny Atkinson, might've been a game back or two now. Um, basically made some quotes around, you know, the sky is not falling. Everything is fine. You know,
00:25:44
Speaker
At that point where he said something like we're only like a game or a game and a half out of third place or something like that, the standings have changed since then. But, um you know, at some point, that fluff talk doesn't go very far. The effort on when, you know, actions speak louder than words and the effort on the court just hasn't been very, very good.
00:26:05
Speaker
Like you said. Yep. So so where do we go from here, Corey? What's the answer? Well, um it'd be nice if the Cavs can freaking get healthy. And the Evan Mobley News does nothing to contribute to that.
00:26:20
Speaker
And I was just looking up the injury ah report. you know Sam Merrill, there there really hasn't been a timeline on him. um all All I've seen is that it's been a slow recovery. He's frustrated.
00:26:33
Speaker
you know, et cetera. Max Drews, set um you know, nothing on him. Larry Nance Jr. has has been out for quite a while now as well. You know, that's another kind of rotational big that could be helping tremendously right now.
00:26:48
Speaker
um But even with those guys out, again, you still have very talented players on this team. And ah I'm not ready quite yet, Alex, but I'm starting to entertain the idea of tweaking the starting rotation.
00:27:04
Speaker
And I'm wondering if Hunter needs to go back to coming off the bench just to provide some some spark, some offense in that in that second unit.
00:27:15
Speaker
I don't know who replaces him. I'm not thrilled with Dean Wade. I'm not thrilled with, I don't want Tomlin. like I don't know who replaces him. I don't know how they do it. But I'm wondering if that's the next chess move that needs to be played if, again, we don't start to see some improvement here this week in the rotation.
00:27:34
Speaker
yeah Yeah, it's worth a try. We've seen quite a few different lineups Kenny's been experimenting with. I don't know. Nothing seems to work so far. Yeah. are you Are you at a point, Alex, where you would entertain some roster moves?
00:27:55
Speaker
I think there are some players that, you know, yeah, yeah i I would entertain it. I wouldn't entertain Mitchell. I don't think I would entertain Mitchell. I don't think I would entertain anything that is considered like the core three, core four guys, though. Like, I don't know that I want a full shakeup, but it might take that.
00:28:17
Speaker
It might. if you want If you want a big player, you got to trade a big player. Absolutely. And for me, anybody but Mitchell, I'd entertain at this point. Um, because it, like you just said, it, it, it may take that. You're not going to all of a sudden improve because you move Max Druse.
00:28:36
Speaker
Nice player. Hope he comes back like what he's done so far in a Cavs uniform, but he's whatever that return is, is not going to be the difference maker. Right. And i do worry that what what what is that timeline for Mitchell mentally of like, OK, this is what my fourth year in in Cleveland.
00:28:57
Speaker
We continue to not get over the hump. I'm in my prime. But in another year or two, I'll be s starting to go down the other way. And, you know, I'm not yeah at what point does he start to question that?
00:29:10
Speaker
his belief in this team. And what I don't want to see the calves do is continue just to sit on their hands. Right now that's saying you need to shake and do a fire sale tomorrow or anything like that, but you have to, you have to start showing some signs of, of, um,
00:29:29
Speaker
you know, awareness that we're we're not where we want to be. And luckily Donovan Mitchell isn't like the past best player we've had on the roster where you always felt that pressure.
00:29:42
Speaker
Donovan Mitchell continues to say the right things after every game. He took the blame for that loss against Charlotte. I think LeBron would have been saying something different. back in his day. And we'd be seeing trade demands and all sorts of cryptic stuff going on. So the Cavs are lucky in that sense, Alex. But i I do wonder, what does that mental timeline look like for Mitchell?
00:30:05
Speaker
And does it go beyond this year if they continue to fall short and the Cavs do nothing about it as far as roster changes or anything like that? Yeah. Looking at the ah the salaries, I do think strategically, there would be a good reason to move some of the players. I mean, you got DeAndre Hunter on the books next season for 26 million.
00:30:29
Speaker
DeAndre Hunter for 26 million. lot When I would start rather seeing Jalen Tyson get some of those minutes. So I could see a move involving maybe one of the core players, maybe Hunter.
00:30:42
Speaker
We are 22 million over the second apron. yeah So I think there's that to consider that if we're not in... with We are in win now mode. There's no doubt about it. We're in win now mode. So being over the second apron is not surprising.
00:30:56
Speaker
And I think it's something that will continue to be even after the trade deadline for sure. So i I would say, you know, all signs are pointing towards something happening.
00:31:08
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. I was reading some articles, um you know, Jared Allen's name has been thrown out there. Um, we saw Dean Wade come up throughout the the season.
00:31:19
Speaker
You said you were seeing crazy rumors on, on Darius Garland. I think we'll continue to see that up until the trade deadline. You know, when, when a team is struggling and they have quote unquote star caliber players on their team, there's going to be a lot of rumors, a lot of, you know, media around that. And I think that'll continue until the Cavs either write the ship, make a move,
00:31:43
Speaker
or the trade down deadline comes and passes. But yeah, I do think that'll be a factor as well is is the second apron and the Cavs need to be under, they they they can't be over it all the time, right? Especially if we're not just winning championships year after year.
00:32:01
Speaker
And that could be another reason, motivation, if you will, to to make some moves as well, especially if the Cavs continue to play the way they are. All right, let's play and NBA trade machine here for a second. Oh, yeah. How about Mobley and Hunter for Giannis and Kuzma?
00:32:20
Speaker
I was wondering, was going to ask, what would it take? And would you entertain that, Alex? Giannis coming out, Giannis on a little injury right now, right? But it could also be a little bit of,
00:32:35
Speaker
you know, feels like that season's a little bit lost for that team. and they're trying to, he's trying to figure out, they're trying to figure out what do we really want to do moving forward here? I think Giannis has been very unmotivated to win in Milwaukee anymore. I feel like he's kind of checked out. Checked out. Yeah. He wants to win.
00:32:54
Speaker
he might be a little sore. I don't know that he's injured, but he is not that interested in playing in Milwaukee at the moment. Are you doing trade? think he's still a great player. He's got a ring.
00:33:05
Speaker
He knows what it takes to win a championship, something that we need on our team on the Cavs.
00:33:12
Speaker
So, yeah, I would i would entertain that deal. Yes, Mobley's great. He's young. He's still rising. We still don't know for sure what his ceiling will be. Defensive player of the year last season.
00:33:24
Speaker
the same time, we're in win-now mode. We just saw Mobley play several games here. You know, first quarter of the season and ah he's been timid. He's getting pushed around. He's he couldn't play the five. He's settling for three pointers. He's not dominating in the paint.
00:33:45
Speaker
I don't know what to say. Yeah. Yeah. He's definitely not trending in the right direction. He didn't take a step forward so far. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, man, but I mean, i i don't know how many teams around the league or what other packages could be offered ah for for a player like Giannis.
00:34:05
Speaker
And, you know, the Cavs don't have what the Bucs or any team like that that has, a you know, a franchise player like that. What they're going to want in a return is is some young up-and-coming players, but what else are they going to want, Alex, that the Cavs don't have?
00:34:24
Speaker
Not anytime soon yet. What you think a draft pick? Draft do You think they'll want a first round pick? I think they're going to want a couple and I think they'll get them as well. Well, we don't have a first round draft pick for another six years. The rest of this decade. 2031, I think is our next first round pick. Yeah, man. That's scary stuff right there. That's scary right there. That's what it took to get Mitchell.
00:34:44
Speaker
That's what it took. That's what it took and it was worth it and I would do the trade again. But this is also why you can't piss away this window. You can't piss it away because, man, we're going to look back at this time frame and be like, wow, how do we not win one? And wow, how do the Cavs just for four or five years straight just sit on that same roster and not continue to tweak and improve and move a guy like Garland or Mitchell or even Mobley, whatever, to bring in that other juggernaut to play side by side with Mitchell? That's what I don't want us to to be talking about years from now, right?
00:35:21
Speaker
So again, i think it's going to be very interesting. I don't know what's going to happen. Maybe the Cavs start to figure it out and and build some confidence back again.
00:35:32
Speaker
but It's very interesting. I certainly don't want to see Giannis go join the Knicks, go join the Heat, some of these other teams that are being talked about. Go go out West, if anything. I don't want him joining some other team in the East.
00:35:44
Speaker
Um, and listen, every trade deadline there, there's always, you know, some other drama. There'll be some other big names that, you know, get moved or, or at least part of rumors and stuff. And the calves, going be right in the mix, at least as far as the rumors.
00:36:00
Speaker
I think so. I think, uh, yeah, they're, they're, they're doing it to themselves, right? Like they're putting themselves in the rumor talk and, uh, you know, there's a lot of names swirling around a lot of teams, uh,
00:36:14
Speaker
looking to make moves. yeah I've heard Anthony Davis, LaMelo Ball. How about LaMelo and Lonzo on the same team? There we go. yeah John Morant possibly on the trade market. Yeah, John Morant. So Ty Drum can take over finally out there. he even played yet? I know he's been injured.
00:36:33
Speaker
and mean zion like Zion's always on the in the rumors. none of those names None of those names get me excited though. The only one that does is Giannis. All the other names don't really do much for me. I agree. And the goofy trade I threw out, I'm not big enough homer to think that we could trade Mobley for Giannis straight up. Like you said, it would take draft picks. It would take more than that. But with us being over the second apron, it does need to be basically player for player.
00:37:00
Speaker
Yeah. yeah So that's kind of the caveat that we're in when we when we're talking about making a trade. Right. Right. It'll be interesting, man.
00:37:13
Speaker
Damn you, Cavs. Want to enjoy the season. been It's been hard to watch, man. This is why, you know, when we're getting towards the end of the season and they're like everybody's freaking out and they're like, oh, it was a terrible season because the Cavs didn't make it past the second round of the playoffs. We don't care about the regular season. We just want them to win in the playoffs. And I'm like, you know what? I'd i'd much rather see them win 65 games of the regular season than it And only make it to the second round than win 40 games of the regular season. Yeah. And make it to the third round. Like I'd rather enjoy watching the Cavs for a majority of the year than just one month of the year.
00:37:59
Speaker
Yeah, it depends. If that one month of the year gets us a championship, I he'll take that all day. Well, that's different. I didn't say championship. I said round two versus round three of the playoffs. This is like watching Jamario Moon run around right now with Mo Williams after LeBron left. What the is going on?
00:38:17
Speaker
yeah like That's what makes it frustrating is that this is a second apron championship caliber team with plenty of talent. and ah you know They can't figure it out right now.
00:38:28
Speaker
To be fair, I don't remember what the record was, but I do know the Pacers who went to the championship last year and you know, cases can be made, you know, that championship could have went either way if there wasn't for the injury on Halliburton.
00:38:44
Speaker
But at this point in the season, they they were around where the Cavs were at. they were They were not in a good spot either. So I don't know. Like you said in the beginning of the episode, it's very early. There's still a lot of basketball left. It's just not what you want to see your your your team going through. And I don't think anybody was thinking the Pacers were a championship contender slash quality team at the start of last season to where A lot of people pick the calves to come out of the east. A lot of people did nationally. you know And I'm looking at the Thunder out there who finally had their second loss.
00:39:19
Speaker
Man, they're just killing teams. And um I think they're going to repeat. I really do. As long as they stay healthy, man, they they look like the team to beat.
00:39:31
Speaker
And, um man, I just want to see the Cavs get back to Cavs basketball again and and ah climb their way back out of the hole that they put themselves in.
00:39:42
Speaker
Yeah, I'm with you on that. Yeah, that's it, man. Start winning games, damn it. Yeah, start winning some games, dude.
00:39:50
Speaker
don't even have anything else. We didn't even talk about any games. We didn't even go into any stats. i even want I mean, I can't even do it, Alex. I know. I don't know if I want to talk about it any games. We lost six out last nine. What's there to talk about? i asked before we started recording. I'm looking at the, when's the last quality win?
00:40:07
Speaker
You have to go back to the Clippers game, which was on November 23rd. I would argue that was their last quality win. It was the first game Kawhi returned, but the Clippers were were were were were pretty good at that point standing-wise, and the Cavs dominated.
00:40:26
Speaker
And any other wins since then, Pacers, you know the Spurs without Wemby, the Wizards after it took Mitchell 48 points and coming back in the last minute. None of those games you could brag about.
00:40:39
Speaker
So you have to go pretty far back to get a quality win. And don't even know the Clippers are a quality win, man. You might've go farther back than that. The Clippers have fallen apart since then. They've got wins. They have. At that point, at that point, the Chris Paul drama.
00:40:52
Speaker
their Their record, I was like, holy crap, i didn't realize Clippers were doing that good. But even though we're not playing against top-tier teams here, Alex, with the Bulls and and the Hornets and stuff here, man, here's your opportunity. to Get some quality wins.
00:41:06
Speaker
Go get some wins against these teams. Build some confidence. That's what I want to wrap the end of 2025, Alex. And then don't get smoked on Christmas Day, please. Don't make that embarrassing game, please. Dear God. Wait, who are they playing Christmas Day? The Knicks. The Knicks. Oh, God. ah knew it was either be the Knicks or the Pistons. And it's in New York on top of it. You know, nationally televised first game of the day. So at least we will have already opened our presence by that, Alex. So ah could be a sad day.
00:41:38
Speaker
It could be. It could be. all right, Alex, let's wrap this one up, you know, um and let the Cavs know where they can follow us and connect with us.
00:41:49
Speaker
Follow us on Twitter at Cavs Pick and Roll. Shoot us an email, CavsPickAndRoll at gmail.com. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Tumblr. Watch this episode on YouTube. Wherever you're listening, click like, subscribe. Leave us a rating or review. We'd appreciate it. All right, Cavs fans, happy holidays, and we will talk to you again soon.
00:42:06
Speaker
Peace out, Cavs fans.