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Good GMs Podcast - 1 - The GMs Who Went Up a Hill and Came Down a Mountain
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Get Good! Welcome to the first episode of Good GMs, a podcast for game masters and tabletop gaming storylikers. We’re James and Chuck, lifelong Game Masters who can’t stop thinking about role-playing games. We’ve spent years running sessions, building worlds, and discovering stories we never planned. Sometimes things work perfectly, and sometimes we screw up spectacularly, but we always learn, laugh, and lean on each other’s experience to make the next game even better.
This isn’t a how-to show or a list of rules. It’s two GMs sharing the moments, disasters, and triumphs that make games unforgettable, messy, opinionated, and full of fun, just like the best nights at the table.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Good GM's Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
So very good.
00:00:24
Speaker
Welcome to the Good GM's Podcast. I'm E.E. Morris, and today's episode is The GM's Who Went Up a Hill and Came Down a Mountain.
00:00:37
Speaker
And now here's Chuck and James.
Meet the Hosts: Chuck and James
00:00:42
Speaker
What are we doing? can't even keep a straight face first episode and we can't even get it started right let's start over one more time here we go from the top i'm kidding go just go yes this is just go this is part of it this is all part of it this is all part of it so hi i'm chucky t And I'm James Curry. How are you guys doing out there?
00:01:00
Speaker
ah Welcome to the Good GM's Podcast. Welcome. Yeah. This is our first episode. I'm excited about this. This is something that Chuck and I have been talking about for a while, actually. We've been playing with names and just every time we get in ah a good long conversation about about role-playing games, we're like, man, we should really be recording this. Yeah.
00:01:20
Speaker
Of course. So here we are. And we'll just be like, um... What do you, um yeah ah you go, you go, you
Chuck's Gaming Journey
00:01:27
Speaker
go. So yeah, we've been, we've been gaming together for a little while and we'll get to that. I'm James. I, uh, I live up here in Canada and, uh, I like role-playing games. It's my, it's my pastime. I am, I'm a musician, but more of my focus lately has, has followed the art of GMing. And that's why I thought I'd be able to help share some of my experience. ah Hi, I'm i'm Chuck E.T. And I've been a lifelong gamer. By day, i have a very boring, very boring job. So ah gaming is my...
00:02:03
Speaker
freedom. It's I've always enjoyed. Yeah, it's nice, right? I got i think of it an art form. I think of it think of it as like an escape from reality, perhaps, in some way or another. that's it's you know It's either that or heroin. And I figured this is probably the better way to go. No, we do not promote that. no this is what I'm saying.
00:02:19
Speaker
Well, you know, it's like I told my wife, you know, and my wife gets really mad because i don't drink heavy. i don't smoke. I don't do drugs. You know, I'm not going out, ah you know, every night. She just is mad because she' says I can't compete with a game. no So why don't you tell me quickly
James' Gaming Origins
00:02:41
Speaker
how you got into it? Like, we'll both go back forth here. You go and tell me like when, what was your first, tell us, tell us about your first experience. Whoa, easy. Oh, the gaming. Yes. Gaming. yes host
00:02:52
Speaker
to the best as I can recall, I believe my, my mom, was long it was a long, it's been a couple of days, oh got v but yeah, my mom went to a local shop and I think,
00:03:05
Speaker
I think she thought was this during the satanic panic or no, no, I, I was, I was so shut up old just past that. Um, and, uh, I think she thought she was picking me up a board game, o you know, cause she went into a local comic shop and, And the guy asked my mom, he's like, well, what what is your what is your son like? What is he like? And all that. my mom, because i' I'm a comic book guy and all this stuff. And so he said, I got just the game.
00:03:33
Speaker
And, you know, again, my mom had no idea what... an RPG is. mean, hell, I didn't even know what an RPG was, you know? And for our listeners who don't know that it's a role-playing game, you're really listening to the wrong podcast.
00:03:46
Speaker
Right, right. This is for the GMs. This is for the players, too. But really, I mean, it's not a rocket-propelled grenade. oh yeah. it's And so he he sold her... oh boy. Here we go. You ready? This is age. This is age Okay. Okay.
00:04:03
Speaker
It was a vintage copy, right? It was a vintage copy. Oh. Brand new the box. TSRs. Uh-oh. Okay. TSRs. Marvel Super Heroes. Nice.
00:04:15
Speaker
Nice. Basic edition. Yeah. and she thought it was a board game. Hell, when I first opened it up, I thought it was a board game. Yeah. I vaguely remember around that same time they had gone to a yard sale and she grabbed a box set of Dungeons and Dragons. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. The classic. the the oh Oh, no. The standard.
00:04:39
Speaker
oh Oh, no, no, no. This is like something Zendar's dungeon or something like that. It's an introductory. I just meant Dungeons and Dragons is like yes is the classic. oh yeah. Oh, yeah. No, and this is the one where the dice, like you had to put crayon on the dice and wipe them off. Yeah. And that's how you see the numbers. Right. And it had the pouches and like you were supposed to go through each pouch and it it taught you the game.
00:05:03
Speaker
And, oh, yeah. Yeah. You see, and right, right. And like, as an older version of me, I would appreciate that. But the younger version of me was like, this is
Exploring Classic RPG Systems
00:05:13
Speaker
schoolwork. Yeah. I don't like this. Stupid math.
00:05:17
Speaker
Stupid math. Right. no So, no. So, so I started with. uh marvel my friends and i we we played the living hell out of that a bet no then we jumped into ah vampire yep uh you're right did that for a very long time i've touched on to uh the old game chill i did the we'll talk about that someday i don't know what that is but i'm excited Okay, okay, okay. Moving on, moving on. We'll be on. Chill, West End Games. but You know, a lot of the West End Games, especially Star Wars. had Had a great time doing Star Wars with that. um There was Blood Shadows. There was, ah oh my God, the Masterworks system, which um was also West End Games, but a really funky system. Either we didn't get these in Canada or you you just have a lot more experience. You're more experienced than i am. i'm I'm really just a... I just started grabbing games. Yeah.
00:06:13
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, shit. the The vampire game. I grabbed the wrong damn book. Uh-oh. Well, I grabbed the player's guide because that's what i thought you were supposed to get was the player's guide. Still had some great art. I'll tell you that. Oh, boy. howdy ah And so, yeah, so that and then classic Deadlands. could We were at Gen Con.
00:06:33
Speaker
My friend and I were at Gen Con when that debuted. Nice. And so life happens. And then I saw Savage Worlds.
00:06:43
Speaker
m And I was like, oh, OK, yeah, you know, and I recognized the pinnacle and all that stuff. And then I was like, oh, no, this is completely different. Right. Yeah. All right. it But it didn't take long. And I just, I fell in love with that. And. Oh yeah.
00:06:59
Speaker
That's easy. No, I asked my game of choice. Well, cause I mean, I remember seeing call Cthulhu. Right. And I was immediately turned off cause I'm terrible at math. Horrible. Oh yeah. And there's like at least 20, 30 stats on the, on the character sheet and it's all percentiles. And exactly. Yeah. All I saw were percentages.
00:07:18
Speaker
And you're like, eh. And I didn't understand. Yeah. So immediately turned me off from Got it. I was like, no. I'd much rather play Shadowrun and just add up 15 dice. That's way better math.
00:07:29
Speaker
Vampire. Here you go. I got my hair. i I did really good. I had my 15 dice. Yeah. Nine, 10 sided. Yeah. So how about how about you? Yeah, I had had a somewhat similar story, actually. Funny enough, there's a good parallel here. is i think the first time I ever gamed um was with my friend James White. Wherever you are, i hope you're listening. James and his brother Dave.
00:07:48
Speaker
So we played Dungeons & Dragons probably first. I don't remember much about it because it didn't it didn't really light a fire in me. But he introduced me to another game system called Champions. Ah, okay.
00:08:00
Speaker
which is a superhero game system, not quite con contending with the ah the Marvel role-playing game universe. But Champions was was a lot of fun. Again, I couldn't tell you how to play it to save my life right now. I have the book somewhere on some Google Drive that I found online one day, but...
00:08:17
Speaker
Overall, it's it's I just remember it being a lot of fun. And it was mostly the character creation that I loved. It was just the idea that, like, okay, so I have to come up with, with like, I think they were called merits and flaws. or no that was A lot of systems had, like, advantages and disadvantages. sort of yeah and So i'm like, if my character doesn't have any fingernails, which really doesn't affect him in any way, I can have laser bum. What? Right? You know what i mean? Like, you could add extra points to your laser bum power or whatever. you know were kids. We were just kids.
00:08:46
Speaker
So it was a lot of fun. And I, you know, I always liked Wolverine. And so I think I made a lot of berserker type characters who were just, yeah. Yeah. I remember actually one of my favorites was ah was a character who who was just a big tough guy. And he he was kind of like an Arnold Schwarzenegger type in that he always had a line. And it was like was one of his one of his flaws was he always had to say. And I remember we're doing a big fight with the like wrecking crew or
A Memorable Role-Playing Session
00:09:08
Speaker
whatever they were called in the in the in the in the grocery store. And I punched one of them and he flew and we did the math and we figured out he flew like eight squares in this direction. And he literally landed right. right on the the conveyor belt, you know, and I was like, time to check out, you know, it was, it was really good. um Played that for a long time, dropped out a role playing game, got sort of high school. My friend Jay started running vampire the masquerade and that was right at the right time. Like I, I like got stuff. And so, you know, for me, vampire was a lot of fun. And we basically for a year and a bit, every single Friday night, this is what a nerd I was. We would play from dusk, you know, who would take his Ritalin and we were, Oh, Because could save them up all week. And we'd play all night long and end up going to like Reggie's for coffee first thing in the morning and talking about, wow you know, how the universe works and stuff.
00:09:55
Speaker
But we played a lot and our characters just developed and we had some amazing scenes where me and me and my best friend, Matt, his brother his character was Malkavian and I was ah i was a gangrel. And just like scenes where one of us had has something bad happen and there'd like real human tears. And like, it was just, you know what i mean? Like intense, right? Because it's vampires. Yeah. didn't Didn't GM at this point. Hadn't started GMing at this point, right? It's ah it's kind of like, well, I mean, I i played. i'd I'd actually preferred to be the player at that and until then. Until i I, again, got back into Vampire. I was looking for a job and I went to this this training session, you know, like this free thing that, the you know, when you when you the the government was offering on how to find a job. And one of the things that was sort of new was a website called Meetup.
00:10:38
Speaker
And it's like you can go on there and find places where people who are pursuing your career meet and you can go meet them in network. And I was like, oh, I wonder if people play Vampire the Masquerade. And so I used this and I found and if i'm my friend Francis, who we still play with, and ah you know a few other people. And we we started playing Vampire. Yeah.
00:11:00
Speaker
um Another one of my buddies introduced me to ah this this this little little game that you and I both are aware of called to Savage Worlds. um I mean, I'm skipping over a lot of the games I played, like GURPS and TORG and, you know, all these other weird words. I never did GURPS. I never did TORG.
00:11:18
Speaker
Yeah, well, we'll get into that someday, I'm sure. um i know that one of my favorite podcasts uses GURPS and they don't they kind of gloss over the math because if you don't like math, you don't like GURPS.
00:11:31
Speaker
So he introduced me to Savage Worlds and um that's when I started sort of GMing. It was the deluxe edition and and ah you know it was a lot of fun and And it was so simple. Right. And we'll get into that later when we get into certain systems and rules. But um I started I started ah actually it was before that. Even um I was I decided I was going to run the the vampire like the the Halloween game for my group.
00:11:52
Speaker
And it was going to be a one shot. And I just kind of went online and looked for one shot Halloween stories. I didn't care what system it was in because I was going to run it in vampire. right And it was the story where where these were ghost hunters and they went to this house because this family was being harassed by some some ghosts. And we find out that the next door neighbor was an old Nazi who like had you know had had had killed a bunch ah you know had a bunch of the souls of of Jewish people. and and they were getting you know Anyway, long story short, we played through that. It was a lot of fun.
00:12:25
Speaker
Years later, i started playing. Rise of the Black Guard. That's what it was. And yeah, I found that online. and It was such a good game and it came with all these like audio things that you can download. So I just, I ran it in the system I knew, which was, which was the vampire of the mountain, the white wolf system. But then when I discovered, I discovered Savage Worlds and realized that what I had run was actually, and I downloaded and bought online was actually Savage
Transitioning to Game Master
00:12:48
Speaker
Worlds. Right. So it turned out that I could run that that one again. um But then then, yeah, long story short, one day this pandemic happened and you know all these people got locked in their houses and I'm on i'm on a Savage Worlds community group and this ah this guy, ah weirdo, was like, I'm going to be running a um ah Deadlands game online if anyone wants to play. And I'm like, I'll give it a shot. I've never played Deadlands, but I like Savage Worlds. And and I met this fellow who goes by the name of Chucky T.
00:13:18
Speaker
Um, and that, that was sort of, that's sort of how we met. Right. Like, yeah, yeah. I was terrified too. I really was. Well, you got your table there, bud.
00:13:29
Speaker
you know you All I know is I go to play your game and it's like, um, well, actually, um, I think you're supposed to, the to but I goes to the defender. Um, I'm pretty sure you can, you know, well because my friends and I had been talking about it for a while as I, you know, just like how, like how this started up, like, you know,
00:13:48
Speaker
I had several people say, it man, you used to be doing this on Twitch. And dudada I'm like, no, no, no. that's That's a different beast. I'm just, these are just casual games. And I'm lazy.
00:13:59
Speaker
Oh, I am. Oh my God. I'm so lazy. And through Google at the time, you could record the session. And I'm like, well, heck, man. If there, might as well push record. It doesn't cost anything, right? Like.
00:14:11
Speaker
Well, at what the time I was, no, no, it wasn't even that. it was It was much, much worse. It was like, well, professional football players and baseball players, they record their games and watch them to see how they could do better. Why can't I? Right. And so and so that's what we started doing. um Because again, I'm lazy. and and um And for me, it was helpful because I didn't have to stop to write down all these notes. Right.
00:14:39
Speaker
Because I just knew. You could go back and listen to it I can go back later yeah and listen to it and jot down notes as necessary. Right. That was the idea. Yeah. See, I just have a relatively idyllic memory when it comes to like, like you, we could play a whole session, like without recording it. And then the next, like three weeks later, have our next session and be like, does anyone remember what happened? And I'll be like, Yeah. So we went to the bar, I think it was called something and goat. And there was this waitress. I remember you said she had red hair and she came to the table and then she told us about this in down the road and like, like somehow I'm able to do that. but Exactly. and And so that's my friends were like, no, seriously, man, you should, you should be putting this out, you know, to put this out yeah and I'm looking, na na no, no, no.
00:15:21
Speaker
And, and yeah, my, I was like, you know, I don't, I don't have YouTube. i don't, I don't have anything like that. And E.E. Morris is the one that was like, you might remember him from such intros as good guy gaming. No, what is it called? Good GMs podcast. Yeah. That's what it is.
00:15:37
Speaker
Yes. Yes. The voice. um Yeah. But he was like, I have YouTube. His voice is not that. No, no, it's not. No, no, no, no. It's more like I have YouTube. Right? And even a couple of octaves lower. He was like, but yeah, so he was like, I got YouTube. And we're like, you have, what do you, what do you have YouTube for? You know, it's like for my bicycles. I'm like, seriously? Yeah.
00:16:02
Speaker
It's like, well, can I use her too? Okay. So we got all set up and that's how we were running through that. But yeah. Quick plug for Savage Sessions. That's right. Savage Sessions. It's crunchy. Yeah. We'll get later. Yeah. But yeah. but but when When you said you were coming on,
00:16:19
Speaker
And I told my friends, and said, hey, we we got we got this rando. Because I have no idea who this guy is. Yeah, it was the first game i was me, Everett. Greg and Lee. And a lady who played a wit. And yeah yeah she was in for one session. One whole session. And she was done.
00:16:39
Speaker
She was done. we'll We'll hit on the topic of ah player retention. why your did Yes. Yeah. Like how and what. What and why. I don't know why i was being dumb, but I looked up like something about going from GM to player because I'm usually the one that is running the games because none of my friends want to read the damn books. Right. And and all the funny thing that's the funny thing, because it's so it was a bit of the opposite for me. was like So as a musician, I'll tell you, it's very similar to most bass players are reluctant guitarists, just like most GMs are are reluctant players. They're like, Frank, if nobody else is going to run the game, I guess I got it. And that's sort of how I got into it, right? It was like, I'd rather play, but since nobody's running, I guess I got to be the guy. And now I love it, right? There's so much. Right.
00:17:27
Speaker
So many wheels on wheels. Oh, God. Yeah. But... But I had read somewhere or I heard somewhere that's like having a GM at your table as a player is either a blessing or a curse.
00:17:42
Speaker
And sometimes it's a double-edged curry.
00:17:47
Speaker
And then it's like know all of them, almost all of them that had heard had said that, you know, there' no there's no middle ground. It's either they're really good oh they're really bad. Yeah. Like, and there's no middle ground. And and I'm very, you know, for me, I was very happy to have you at the table. Thank you, sir. because Because you you know how to engage. You know how to stay in character. Well, want to draw, and I want to, and you know how to draw the other players, which is part of it, right? is is is And we'll get into this someday, I'm sure. To have a player at your table who just wants the spotlight and won't share it is one of the worst things you can have. It's worse than having a table full of players who don't want the spotlight. yeah like
00:18:25
Speaker
Like it's, it's poison in a lot of ways. And so yes for me, when it was like, okay, you know, Austin, which was my character's name, Austin, James, what are you, what are you doing? you know, it was like, how can I assist?
00:18:36
Speaker
So, you know, ah John, who was Greg's character is is in a fist fight. So maybe I'll, I'll do a test. I'll, I'll like, I'll throw a bottle to try to distract the guy. He's going to punch or something because a I knew the system. I knew how, how to work the system.
00:18:52
Speaker
Not again, like cheating, but that's, so that's knowing the system, right? So being able to use it for what it's good for, which Savage Worlds is good for, what do you want to do? The next step is how does it, like, how do we make it work? And that's, I think for every system personally, and that's another topic maybe is like, Hey, I want to do a thing that this system doesn't seem to allow for all systems allow for all things.
The Art of Being a Good GM
00:19:14
Speaker
If you're a clever GM. Right.
00:19:15
Speaker
If you're a good GM. And so for me, yeah, it's like, I loved, i love being at your table because I like the way you GM. I like your characters. I like your stories. There's been times and we'll talk about that in future sessions where I'm like, dude, come on. Like,
00:19:31
Speaker
Stop railroading. But what? But, but overall, no, you've been, you've been really fun to work with. as But back, back to this. So yes yes the reason we wanted to do this, I think it comes out of that, which is we both love to game and we both have a lot of strong opinions on how to be a good GM. And so I think you and I have had occasional, like, you know, we've never actually, for the record, for you listeners out there, we've never actually met in person in real life. um just on the internets. So for all I know, he's an AI.
00:20:05
Speaker
But the one thing I really like is how both of us have different strengths and different things that we're really good at. And I think that we both have a lot to offer you, the listener, as, um you know, I mean, hopefully you got to know us a little bit today because I got to say, i think it's going to be a lot of fun moving forward. I know I i have a lot of show topic and and ideas that I want to bring up and I know you do too. Yeah. And, you know, everything from, you know, if you lock a character in a room, don't say two hours later, let them figure out how to get out. But that's another, that's another day, another topic. But in in all reality, it's it's going to be a lot of fun and I'm really happy to be working with you.
00:20:42
Speaker
Yeah. So I hope you guys out there, or wherever you are, if if you if you, if you exist someday, ah will enjoy listening to us. Absolutely. Absolutely. And if anything, this will be good for, you know, things to think about.
00:20:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Get a conversation started. You'll be listening to it. And, and, and if you listen to us and you're like, No, you're absolutely way off. Fantastic. Yeah. Find us on Facebook, find us on Instagram, find us on, I don't know, whatever social media is going to exist in three years. If you're listening to this for the first time, but it's going to be a lot of fun. And if it's nothing but you and I, Chuck, getting a chance to talk out some stuff and, and, you know, listening back, you know, going and checking the tapes to see if we can be better podcasters, um then this is going to be worth it. I think. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you for for listening. And don't forget, join us online and see you next week on Good GM's podcast.
00:21:38
Speaker
Because we are good GMs. That's right. And we are professionals. We are.
00:21:45
Speaker
Thank you for listening.
Closing Remarks from E.E. Morris
00:21:47
Speaker
If you like or dislike what you heard, let us know. If you want to suggest an idea for an episode, ask the host a question, or just tell Chuck and James what you really think of them, join our communities at patreon.com forward slash good GM's podcast, or find us on the usual social media platforms.
00:22:13
Speaker
For now, I'm E.E. Morris, and you're all good GMs.