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Ep 134: ABBA and the Super Trouper of Pinball Cary Hardy
92 Plays2 years ago
Pinball Brothers released a new game! We talk ABBA, DPX, Stern possibly going public, and random tangents.
Click here for all our social and merch links:
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Transcript
Introduction and Technical Difficulties
00:00:08
Speaker
stop the hammering someone go upstairs and stop the hammering oh oh hey everyone thanks for tuning in this is the lose kid pinball podcast this is episode 134 i am josh roop with me my co-captain as always scott larson oh as always yes as always because you're supposed to do that part but apparently i had to kick in so yes hey we're already doing better than
00:00:31
Speaker
the American pinball interview where I had to restart.
00:00:34
Speaker
What was it?
00:00:34
Speaker
Four times?
00:00:35
Speaker
Four times.
00:00:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:00:35
Speaker
No, it's good.
00:00:36
Speaker
It's good.
00:00:37
Speaker
I showed up late anyway.
00:00:38
Speaker
So it's, you know, it's all good.
00:00:40
Speaker
Life happens, all that kind of stuff.
Pinball Purchases and Customer Service
00:00:42
Speaker
However, if you are going to be buying a game, Josh, who are you going to be contacting?
00:00:46
Speaker
You know, I actually just did buy a game.
00:00:49
Speaker
I sent my money over for my premium.
00:00:51
Speaker
It should be shipping from flipping out headquarters here this week or next.
00:00:56
Speaker
And so I'm pretty excited to get that.
00:00:58
Speaker
As you can see on this side, there's a little bit of a gap.
00:01:01
Speaker
So that's where my jaws.
00:01:02
Speaker
What'd you sell?
00:01:04
Speaker
Oh, I sold Avengers.
00:01:05
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:01:06
Speaker
So, but yeah, it's gone.
00:01:07
Speaker
The great, great customer service.
00:01:09
Speaker
Zach is good.
00:01:10
Speaker
Ben's over backwards.
00:01:11
Speaker
I know he's out for Scott.
00:01:12
Speaker
He's out for me.
00:01:13
Speaker
Uh, if you need any, bending over is not really the best option.
00:01:17
Speaker
He just goes the extra mile for me.
00:01:19
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:19
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:21
Speaker
This is going so unhinged.
00:01:22
Speaker
We're not even to our guests yet.
00:01:25
Speaker
Okay.
00:01:25
Speaker
But if you want like the ABBA pinball machine, give him a call.
00:01:28
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:01:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:29
Speaker
Barry O's barbecue.
00:01:30
Speaker
Take a chance.
00:01:30
Speaker
Take a chance.
00:01:31
Speaker
Take a chance.
Guest Introduction and Sinus Issues
00:01:32
Speaker
All righty.
00:01:32
Speaker
We got tons of news.
00:01:34
Speaker
We got an awesome guest on.
00:01:36
Speaker
And if you're watching on YouTube, you just watch him like snort something.
00:01:41
Speaker
I'm.
00:01:42
Speaker
pretty sure it was afrin but you never know he's like i'm dealing with these guys tonight the good stuff
Solar Eclipses and Environmental Effects
00:01:49
Speaker
carrie hardy joins us carrie how you doing what's going on guys yeah my sinuses the membranes every once in a while they just kind of go you know what uh you don't need oxygen anymore and they start to flame flame up so i gotta like put them in check with this stuff every once in a while i'm doing great not that you asked but but i'm not snorting anything illegal over here it's just
00:02:07
Speaker
start getting all jacked oh yeah oh yeah hey how was how was the eclipse did you go see it dude yeah it was great it was uh one of those things where i've only seen it in like movies and stuff like that just sort of sit there and lay back and just see it in person that was that was pretty amazing it's a lifetime experience right there okay i know it hit us what two three years ago
00:02:30
Speaker
It did.
00:02:30
Speaker
And I didn't go up north.
00:02:31
Speaker
I could have gone to Idaho, but we kind of found out late.
00:02:35
Speaker
And so we decided not to drive up because we thought it was going to be crazy.
00:02:38
Speaker
So we got like the 95% eclipser, but I did go to the ring eclipse that was, it came through Utah.
00:02:49
Speaker
So the ring eclipse, it's like, it, you know, it looks like the Lord of the Rings thing where the moon is,
00:02:55
Speaker
is a little farther away so it's not totally eclipsing the moon the sun so it actually has like a cool ring it got some cool pictures but yeah the temperature does drop yeah it's weird birds start freaking out like what's going on yeah the animals are like this is not right uh it is kind of weird i only remember one solar eclipse as a kid growing up and now we have them it seems like every other year so
00:03:19
Speaker
You know, I'm happy when the news is really mainly about eclipses as opposed to like, you know, wars and pestilence and famine and all that stuff.
00:03:29
Speaker
That is very true.
Podcast Performance and Popular Episodes
00:03:30
Speaker
So even though we have plenty, plenty of that too.
00:03:34
Speaker
Speaking of eclipses, Hey, this is a good segue.
00:03:37
Speaker
We have a new top listens episode of King of top who we clip on our podcast.
00:03:45
Speaker
So triple drain was the original holder at like a little over 65.
00:03:47
Speaker
I want to say it was like 6,700.
00:03:52
Speaker
Keith Owen blew through it.
00:03:53
Speaker
Like we're not shocked, right?
00:03:56
Speaker
Over 8,000 listens.
00:03:56
Speaker
I know that's not carry numbers, but man, we are happy to take that kind of, kind of listen.
00:04:02
Speaker
So we want to thank you guys for blowing that out of the water.
00:04:05
Speaker
That was insane.
00:04:06
Speaker
And it's still climbing every day.
00:04:07
Speaker
So I mean, I checked two weeks ago.
00:04:09
Speaker
I bet it's up another couple hundred, but.
00:04:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:12
Speaker
If you want to check out that episode.
00:04:14
Speaker
I download at least 10 a day, so it does help out.
00:04:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:17
Speaker
It's mostly Scott, so.
00:04:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:19
Speaker
I think the triple drain is interesting to listen to or to watch because of, you know, Joel and Travis just kind of going back and forth against each other on certain things and jabbing at each other and
00:04:31
Speaker
And then if Tom lets them get a word in edgewise, then, you know, yeah, it's pretty, pretty interesting.
00:04:36
Speaker
Listen to everything.
00:04:38
Speaker
Tom doesn't really say a whole lot.
00:04:39
Speaker
That's the whole going on joke.
00:04:41
Speaker
Tom talks.
00:04:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:42
Speaker
But yeah, just to hear them jab back and forth with each other and stuff like that is always entertaining.
00:04:46
Speaker
But then you get, you know, Keith Elwin on there to talk pinball and everybody's all ears kind of thing.
00:04:51
Speaker
Yep.
00:04:51
Speaker
Everyone wants to know what's going on with Alan, man.
00:04:54
Speaker
Did you hear the like the production schedule that's coming up?
00:04:59
Speaker
It's like Ellen, Ellen, Ellen, Elvira, Elwin.
00:05:06
Speaker
Literally.
00:05:06
Speaker
A new version of
Pinball Novelty Items and Humorous Stories
00:05:08
Speaker
Elvira.
00:05:08
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:05:11
Speaker
The fishnet stockings edition.
00:05:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:15
Speaker
But, you know, now someone's going to put fishnet stockings on the legs of their pinball machine.
00:05:19
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:05:20
Speaker
Oh, that would be that would be sexy.
00:05:22
Speaker
Yeah, I think you should do that.
00:05:23
Speaker
Mm hmm.
00:05:25
Speaker
I carry you need to do a video like like oh baby.
00:05:30
Speaker
What was it the the stern.
00:05:33
Speaker
Oh the switch.
00:05:35
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:05:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:36
Speaker
Come on.
00:05:36
Speaker
We are family friendly.
00:05:39
Speaker
That's the after that video.
00:05:41
Speaker
It's funny.
00:05:42
Speaker
It's funny.
00:05:43
Speaker
That is my most downvoted video.
00:05:45
Speaker
I think.
00:05:46
Speaker
Downvoted or downloaded down.
00:05:52
Speaker
downvoted i could confirm but i know a lot of people didn't like it but i was like i thought it was funny it's a lot of backdoor downloads for that one no one wants to say up front they actually like it it was one of those where incognito mode yeah i was looking for like pinball parts and i happened to arrive at this under the miscellaneous section i was like this can't be real this can't be real i'm like i can add it to my cart
00:06:17
Speaker
I'm buying it.
00:06:18
Speaker
I'm going to.
00:06:19
Speaker
It was one of those where I'm like, I hope I buy it.
00:06:21
Speaker
And they go, this is not meant to be purchased.
00:06:23
Speaker
This is a gag gift kind of thing.
00:06:25
Speaker
But it was real.
00:06:26
Speaker
It arrived.
00:06:27
Speaker
My only disappointment was that it didn't have the pink tassel like it did in the picture.
00:06:30
Speaker
Mine was like green or something.
00:06:32
Speaker
OK, wait, I thought you I thought you made that.
00:06:37
Speaker
No, it's from Pinball.
00:06:38
Speaker
You can buy it from Pinball.
00:06:39
Speaker
I put a link in the description.
00:06:40
Speaker
I was like, there you go.
00:06:41
Speaker
Get you one of these things.
Speculation on Dutch Pinball's New Division
00:06:44
Speaker
They even added my video to their product listing now.
00:06:48
Speaker
I am looking that up right now.
00:06:50
Speaker
Pinball Life.
00:06:52
Speaker
Go to Pinball Life.
00:06:53
Speaker
Okay.
00:06:55
Speaker
And then if you go to that miscellaneous or whatever page, I have to find the video myself.
00:07:00
Speaker
They even added my video to their product page.
00:07:04
Speaker
Pinball parts by category?
00:07:07
Speaker
Is it by category?
00:07:08
Speaker
It might be things you don't need or something like that or miscellaneous.
00:07:13
Speaker
Game specific parts.
00:07:15
Speaker
Frequently asked questions.
00:07:16
Speaker
Trinkets and novelties you don't need.
00:07:18
Speaker
That's probably what it's under.
00:07:19
Speaker
That's probably what it's under.
00:07:20
Speaker
Okay, that's got to be something.
00:07:22
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:07:22
Speaker
Okay, I guarantee Scott Denisi made that in his spare time.
00:07:25
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah, because he's the one that contacted me, let me know.
00:07:28
Speaker
He's like, hey, man, I just want to let you know I added your video to our product page.
00:07:31
Speaker
I was like, nice.
00:07:33
Speaker
That is, yeah.
00:07:35
Speaker
So now you got to go in cahoots with pinball life and make fishnet stockings for your Elvira pinball machines.
00:07:41
Speaker
Oh, absolutely.
00:07:42
Speaker
Okay, I'm only getting like keychain stuff.
00:07:45
Speaker
Swearwear.
00:07:46
Speaker
Oh, maybe it's not on there anymore.
00:07:49
Speaker
They sold out.
00:07:51
Speaker
Oh, wait, wait.
00:07:52
Speaker
No, it is.
00:07:55
Speaker
The plug and play stimulator.
00:07:58
Speaker
Yeah, it is.
00:07:59
Speaker
Last page, fourth page.
00:08:01
Speaker
The fourth page.
00:08:03
Speaker
Like Scott said, the plug and play pinball.
00:08:06
Speaker
We'll just call it the light switch switcher.
00:08:08
Speaker
I would buy that, but I seriously think my kids would be running around with it and some random person would be like, what is that?
00:08:14
Speaker
Yeah.
John Papaduke's Game Design Legacy
00:08:16
Speaker
Yep.
00:08:17
Speaker
Okay, seriously.
00:08:19
Speaker
I legit thought you made that.
00:08:22
Speaker
I put a link in the description.
00:08:25
Speaker
I was like, we want to get your own link in the description down below.
00:08:28
Speaker
Again, I thought it was a joke.
00:08:31
Speaker
I was like, there's no way they made this.
00:08:35
Speaker
And yet now you can buy, add it to your wishlist, baby.
00:08:38
Speaker
Wow.
00:08:38
Speaker
But look what it says.
00:08:39
Speaker
It even says, check out the testimony below from a satisfied customer.
00:08:44
Speaker
I love how your photo just looks so menacing.
00:08:46
Speaker
Like for your video, you're just like, there is nothing like it.
00:08:51
Speaker
It's all true.
00:08:53
Speaker
Tassels and jewel colors may vary.
00:08:55
Speaker
Yep.
00:08:56
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:08:56
Speaker
Okay.
00:08:57
Speaker
I got a green one on mine.
00:08:58
Speaker
Oh, well.
00:08:58
Speaker
Packaged in a discreet black box.
00:09:01
Speaker
Okay.
00:09:01
Speaker
So for those that are listening, like we said, we are family friendly.
00:09:06
Speaker
So if you do want to check this out, just go to pinball live.
00:09:09
Speaker
On a stick.
00:09:12
Speaker
That plugs something.
00:09:14
Speaker
On a stick.
00:09:15
Speaker
You use it to turn on.
00:09:16
Speaker
You know how it's a pain in the butt to turn on and off your spin ball, your spin ball machines because you got like lean over.
00:09:23
Speaker
This is to help aid that.
00:09:25
Speaker
That's to help.
00:09:25
Speaker
So you can reach those hard to flip places.
00:09:30
Speaker
Is it extendable?
00:09:31
Speaker
Yes.
00:09:35
Speaker
We got to do a giveaway for one of these.
00:09:37
Speaker
Wow.
00:09:39
Speaker
Wow.
00:09:40
Speaker
I can't.
00:09:41
Speaker
I'm reaching out right now.
00:09:42
Speaker
Does anybody other than Gary own one of these?
00:09:45
Speaker
People said that they bought one.
00:09:46
Speaker
They're like, I didn't know this existed.
00:09:48
Speaker
I'm buying one right now.
00:09:51
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:09:52
Speaker
After this episode, the traffic's going to blow it up on Pinball.
00:09:56
Speaker
I sure hope so.
00:09:57
Speaker
Just type in code loser kid.
00:09:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:01
Speaker
10% off.
00:10:03
Speaker
Okay.
00:10:04
Speaker
Not really.
00:10:04
Speaker
We don't have any.
00:10:06
Speaker
I tried to buy this thing.
00:10:07
Speaker
I couldn't get my $2 off because you guys.
00:10:12
Speaker
Promo code sucks.
00:10:13
Speaker
I've never listened to you guys again.
00:10:15
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:10:17
Speaker
Okay, where were we even at?
00:10:19
Speaker
Okay, I'm skipping to the next news item.
00:10:21
Speaker
Topic two.
00:10:24
Speaker
Topic number two.
00:10:25
Speaker
That's it.
00:10:25
Speaker
Topic number two.
Dutch Pinball's Potential Game Releases
00:10:27
Speaker
Pinball Brothers got a new division and it's called DPX.
00:10:32
Speaker
DPX.
00:10:33
Speaker
You mean the Dutch Pinball?
00:10:34
Speaker
You said Pinball Brothers.
00:10:36
Speaker
Oh, yes.
00:10:36
Speaker
Okay, wait.
00:10:38
Speaker
Am I the only one when they keep saying Pinball Brothers and Dutch Pinball?
00:10:43
Speaker
I always have to ask
00:10:45
Speaker
Wait, aren't they the same company?
00:10:46
Speaker
Or who made what?
00:10:49
Speaker
Like, I really do.
00:10:50
Speaker
I get kind of confused.
00:10:54
Speaker
Dutch did Big Lebowski.
00:10:55
Speaker
Big Lebowski, yeah.
00:10:56
Speaker
And they also did the Bride of Pinbot 2.0 kits.
00:11:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:01
Speaker
And then Pinball Brothers did Alien and Queen.
00:11:04
Speaker
And now they- Okay, like for some reason in my mind, I just kind of lump them together.
00:11:08
Speaker
Maybe it's just because of the double Ds.
00:11:10
Speaker
I wonder if that's, I wonder if the Europeans do that to us.
00:11:13
Speaker
Like they're like, who is this?
00:11:15
Speaker
Like Stern versus JJP.
00:11:18
Speaker
I apologize if that's- Oh, you totally insulted so many people over there.
00:11:22
Speaker
That's okay.
00:11:22
Speaker
That's okay.
00:11:23
Speaker
We kid.
00:11:23
Speaker
We tease.
00:11:24
Speaker
We tease.
00:11:24
Speaker
You should have just added the no-ho-ho in there and make everybody mad.
00:11:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:29
Speaker
Okay, so legitimately, anytime someone says like Dutch, I, in my mind, I always think it's Denmark.
00:11:37
Speaker
And I know it's not, it's Amsterdam, but it's the Netherlands.
00:11:41
Speaker
But the funny thing is Dutch, I don't, I know it's a different country.
00:11:44
Speaker
I know, but it's just, it's kind of the same.
00:11:46
Speaker
So...
00:11:47
Speaker
Dutch pinball brothers.
00:11:48
Speaker
I want to personally apologize to RB Flip France because I enjoy your guys' content.
00:11:53
Speaker
I was not trying to make fun of you guys.
00:11:54
Speaker
If you've never watched them, you should go check them out.
00:11:56
Speaker
RB Flip France.
00:11:56
Speaker
That's my plug for them.
00:12:01
Speaker
Okay.
00:12:02
Speaker
So they have released a... Okay.
00:12:07
Speaker
Am I the only one who's just wondering why?
00:12:11
Speaker
No.
00:12:12
Speaker
What do you think, Kerry?
00:12:13
Speaker
What do you think of Dutch Pimalt exclusive?
00:12:15
Speaker
I know what's been speculated.
00:12:18
Speaker
Do you guys know what's been speculated?
00:12:20
Speaker
It's been speculated that... Alice in Wonderland?
00:12:22
Speaker
Yeah, Alice in Wonderland.
00:12:23
Speaker
Well, okay,
Controversies in Game Design
00:12:24
Speaker
but it's been speculated that this is kind of a, hey, someone who has some money and is investing, but they don't want to do the whole... I think they want to stay separate on some level because of, obviously, some challenging history, which would make sense.
00:12:42
Speaker
You mean in Papa Duke?
00:12:43
Speaker
Are you talking about the other investor that actually invested in Dutch pinball?
00:12:47
Speaker
But it kind of sounds like they want to keep shares separate from Dutch pinball in this company.
00:12:51
Speaker
Right.
00:12:52
Speaker
And that's what it seems like, is that there's going to be a division of maybe liability would be the best way of putting it.
00:13:01
Speaker
But, okay, is there anybody out there who actually wants to buy an Alice in Wonderland?
00:13:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:13
Speaker
It's a John Papadou game.
00:13:16
Speaker
Did you play it?
00:13:16
Speaker
You can hate the individual and what he's done all you want to.
00:13:20
Speaker
I get it.
00:13:20
Speaker
But you can't deny that he makes beautiful games.
00:13:23
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:23
Speaker
Separate the artist.
00:13:24
Speaker
No, no, no.
00:13:25
Speaker
He does not make beautiful games.
00:13:27
Speaker
He made beautiful games.
00:13:30
Speaker
That's like saying.
00:13:30
Speaker
He didn't even make them.
00:13:32
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:33
Speaker
That's like saying 25 years ago, I was super fit and ripped.
00:13:37
Speaker
I still say that.
00:13:38
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:40
Speaker
I'm turning 50 this year.
00:13:41
Speaker
And so let's just say I can't ride on that.
00:13:45
Speaker
By the way, I'd never have been, but it's okay.
00:13:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:49
Speaker
Like legitimately it would be like ABBA releasing an album now.
00:13:56
Speaker
It's not going to sell the way it did.
00:13:58
Speaker
Abbott just sold an album.
00:14:01
Speaker
Okay.
00:14:02
Speaker
You're going into different content now.
00:14:05
Speaker
I'm lumping them all together.
00:14:07
Speaker
Let's just piss off all the Europeans over there.
00:14:11
Speaker
Now you're going to start jabbing out their ass.
00:14:13
Speaker
Just go watch Eurovision.
00:14:15
Speaker
It's fine.
00:14:17
Speaker
Abbott did win Eurovision, right?
00:14:19
Speaker
We're good.
00:14:21
Speaker
Yeah, Voyage.
00:14:22
Speaker
It literally just released two years ago.
00:14:24
Speaker
That's what this game is.
00:14:26
Speaker
Okay.
00:14:27
Speaker
Back to Dutch though.
00:14:27
Speaker
Okay.
00:14:28
Speaker
I want to get my two cents really quick.
00:14:31
Speaker
That is my two cents.
00:14:32
Speaker
It is not a fun game.
00:14:34
Speaker
I think, okay.
00:14:35
Speaker
I think if, if this is going to work, right?
00:14:37
Speaker
Like if, if Dutch pinball, we, I would say I'm going to consider them a legit company.
00:14:42
Speaker
I mean, they are, they produce big, big Lebowski.
00:14:44
Speaker
It took them a decade to do it, but I think the fact that they actually did it proves like shows that like they're willing to make their customers whole.
00:14:52
Speaker
It might take a bit.
00:14:54
Speaker
Um, I'm surprised by the way they did just because I thought they were going to, like, I totally lost that bet.
00:15:01
Speaker
I thought they were going to go bankrupt.
00:15:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:04
Speaker
I think if anyone is going to pull off doing a John Papaduke game at this point, it's going to have to be someone overseas.
00:15:10
Speaker
Someone that maybe the Papaduke news
Pinball Brothers' ABBA Machine Appeal
00:15:13
Speaker
really isn't in their face.
00:15:14
Speaker
Because we're still here in America with the Deep Root and the SEC stuff.
00:15:18
Speaker
And it doesn't get reported as much over here anymore because it's kind of like it went on its voyage, right?
00:15:25
Speaker
And so I think if you're going to try to sell these Alice in Wonderland.
00:15:30
Speaker
I played Magic Girl last year at Expo.
00:15:32
Speaker
It's not a $15,000 game, guys.
00:15:34
Speaker
It really is not.
00:15:35
Speaker
But more power to them if they can sell them.
00:15:38
Speaker
I know there's a lot of hype around this.
00:15:41
Speaker
That was my first thought.
00:15:42
Speaker
If you're going to get away from the John Papaduke stuff, do it over there because you're not going to be successful here in America with that at all, in my opinion.
00:15:50
Speaker
And I think you're still going to have some rough times over there.
00:15:52
Speaker
The other thing, too, is if you have it in Europe, you don't have the people from America trying to go after litigation for you because it's different countries.
00:15:59
Speaker
And so the laws are different.
00:16:00
Speaker
I don't think...
00:16:02
Speaker
Someone in Texas is going to be able to then go after pinball or Dutch pinball for making these games and selling them because they're two different companies now and
00:16:14
Speaker
I don't, I'm not a lawyer.
00:16:15
Speaker
Don't quote me.
00:16:16
Speaker
So I just, I think it's, I don't know more power to them.
00:16:21
Speaker
If this is what they want to do.
00:16:22
Speaker
Cool.
00:16:22
Speaker
Fine.
00:16:23
Speaker
We saw this a mile coming, coming a mile away from last year when they're like, we're bringing magic girl to expo.
00:16:28
Speaker
Why?
00:16:29
Speaker
No one wants, no one wants this game.
00:16:30
Speaker
This game's older than, than a big Lebowski.
00:16:33
Speaker
Cause these were being shown 15 years ago.
00:16:37
Speaker
trying to be sold and they're playable now with the updated code or refinish or whatever.
00:16:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:44
Speaker
Saying they're playable.
00:16:45
Speaker
That is generous.
00:16:47
Speaker
Like they, it was not just trying to be generous here.
00:16:50
Speaker
I didn't say it was a great game, but you could at least play it where a lot of people just had never been able to play the game.
00:16:55
Speaker
It was merely just a myth.
00:16:56
Speaker
You only saw it.
00:16:57
Speaker
And it was like a damn unicorn crying out loud.
00:17:00
Speaker
So to have one there for you to play now, whether or not you enjoyed your time there in front of the machine.
00:17:05
Speaker
Okay.
00:17:06
Speaker
I got you.
00:17:06
Speaker
I mean, there's a lot of parts in that play field.
00:17:09
Speaker
My ball never reached.
00:17:10
Speaker
I'm like, I don't know how to get up to where it looks like my ball can get up there.
00:17:14
Speaker
I don't know how to get up there.
00:17:15
Speaker
There was so much underneath that glass.
00:17:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:20
Speaker
That's like three levels and I could only get to the second level.
00:17:24
Speaker
It was, and I would try to nail that ball right on and it would not go up that ramp.
00:17:30
Speaker
Yeah, it's just I think when it comes to J-pop, it's like there's something about his games that speaks to a lot of people.
00:17:38
Speaker
And like my wife doesn't doesn't know this, but J-pop games speak to her.
00:17:42
Speaker
We go to these shows is when we first started getting into pinball.
00:17:45
Speaker
She loved Toten.
00:17:47
Speaker
She loved Theater of Magic.
00:17:49
Speaker
She loved World Cup soccer.
00:17:50
Speaker
Something about
00:17:51
Speaker
those games speaks to individuals and shows she doesn't know it, but she's a J pop fan.
00:17:56
Speaker
She likes for whatever reason, how his games shoot.
00:18:01
Speaker
And I think a lot of people feel that same way as well.
00:18:04
Speaker
And I think they were hoping to get that with Raza and, um,
00:18:09
Speaker
In my opinion, the time that I had on Raza, no, it was my least favorite of all of the J-pop games and everything.
00:18:18
Speaker
But and now you're getting Alice in Wonderland, which I don't think we've ever seen.
00:18:22
Speaker
Like, you know, I know you say it's bad, but I don't think we've ever seen an actually assembled game.
00:18:25
Speaker
It's merely just been like the crafting of what it would look like.
00:18:30
Speaker
But as far as how it's going to shoot and what it's going to be like, I mean, you look like you got implementation of what we know, like as Twilight Zone with the magnetic flippers.
00:18:37
Speaker
Wait, didn't they bring one, Josh?
00:18:40
Speaker
No.
00:18:41
Speaker
Alice in Wonderland?
00:18:42
Speaker
Yeah, wasn't it Alice?
00:18:44
Speaker
No.
00:18:44
Speaker
What did they bring?
00:18:45
Speaker
They've never made Alice in Wonderland.
Marketing Strategy for ABBA Machine
00:18:47
Speaker
It has been...
00:18:49
Speaker
Okay, what did they bring over to Expo?
00:18:51
Speaker
That was Magical.
00:18:53
Speaker
Oh, Magical.
00:18:54
Speaker
Oh, sorry.
00:18:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:18:55
Speaker
Yeah, so House of Wonderland has only been basically in a prototype phase of paper mache and what it would look like aesthetically.
00:19:02
Speaker
But as far as playability, no one's ever seen one shooter if it's going to be any good.
00:19:06
Speaker
Aesthetically,
00:19:07
Speaker
I mean, it looks like it could be kind of cool looking, but that's about as much as I got to go on at this point.
00:19:12
Speaker
It's like the artwork, and that was Zombie Yeti stuff.
00:19:14
Speaker
Okay, Zombie Yeti definitely sells.
00:19:17
Speaker
We know that.
00:19:18
Speaker
Zombie Yeti can make a great game, and obviously, if there is any
00:19:24
Speaker
Any nugget that comes out of the whole J-pop drama is the discovery of Zombie Yeti.
00:19:32
Speaker
But even Zombie Yeti, though, is like, I don't want to be associated with this.
00:19:34
Speaker
Yeah, he's like, I don't want this.
00:19:35
Speaker
This is junk.
00:19:36
Speaker
I moved on.
00:19:37
Speaker
So I sent you guys the foam core in our chat.
00:19:42
Speaker
Yeah, that's merely what we've seen as far as how it's going to shoot.
00:19:47
Speaker
who knows?
00:19:48
Speaker
But it makes no sense.
00:19:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:49
Speaker
You're looking at this foam core and like the ramps come out of nowhere.
00:19:52
Speaker
Like they come from behind the screen and yeah, it just, it makes no sense.
00:19:57
Speaker
It's got the circus Voltaire aspect with the screen underneath the glass.
00:20:00
Speaker
That's, that's kind of what I was thinking.
00:20:02
Speaker
I was thinking this looks like circus Voltaire 2.0.
00:20:04
Speaker
Um,
00:20:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:08
Speaker
Yeah, it could shoot like total.
00:20:10
Speaker
I mean, it could.
00:20:11
Speaker
I mean, we don't know.
00:20:13
Speaker
Here's also the challenge, though.
00:20:14
Speaker
The one thing that we have to remember is he he released those four awesome games.
00:20:21
Speaker
OK, he released them all under the Williams banner with the Williams machine covering up for everything that he was deficient at.
00:20:34
Speaker
I don't think that the only, like the only company that could possibly replicate what Williams was doing in the nineties would be Stern.
00:20:42
Speaker
And I don't think Stern is going to take these on and, and put that like, you know, it's, I don't think that he can perform alone.
00:20:51
Speaker
He needs a support cast that is more stable than he is.
00:20:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:57
Speaker
I guess that's my point.
ABBA Game Design Speculations
00:20:58
Speaker
I don't know if you guys remember this.
00:21:00
Speaker
I don't know if you had listened to it, but I did that interview with Larry DeMar.
00:21:04
Speaker
And, and Larry was talking about one of my favorite games, which is sitting over here at world cup soccer.
00:21:10
Speaker
And he talked about John Papa Duke's dad.
00:21:13
Speaker
I can't remember if he passed away or was having health issues or whatever.
00:21:15
Speaker
And he had to step away and they pretty much finished the game for him.
00:21:19
Speaker
Right.
00:21:19
Speaker
So I don't know if you consider World Cup soccer, John Papa Duke game because.
00:21:23
Speaker
Well, kind of is, but I would say that that's a team approach and that's what I'm saying.
00:21:28
Speaker
He has not produced a successful game outside of the home team that he played for in the nineties.
00:21:37
Speaker
So maybe this will work because it's a team effort.
00:21:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:21:44
Speaker
And you got to think, I think every game that he made is when actually pinball was becoming less and less popular because at 93 was whenever it was at its pinnacle.
00:21:51
Speaker
Right.
00:21:52
Speaker
And every year after that, it just got, yeah, it got declined every year after that kind of thing.
00:21:57
Speaker
So, you know, you had Circus Voltaire was like 97, 96.
00:22:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:00
Speaker
And actually I played a Circus Voltaire.
00:22:04
Speaker
Like my friend had an awesome Circus Voltaire.
00:22:06
Speaker
I kind of wish I'd bought it now.
00:22:08
Speaker
It was, it was the prettiest Circus Voltaire you'll ever see.
00:22:11
Speaker
And it's just that it was really cool.
00:22:15
Speaker
Visually, it was awesome.
00:22:17
Speaker
But I still didn't sell one of my games to buy that game.
00:22:23
Speaker
But that's the thing, though.
00:22:24
Speaker
When we talk CGC and stuff like that, the top requested games are Tales of the Arabian Nights with an updated code and Theater of Magic with updated code.
00:22:32
Speaker
Because that's the problem with these games is they were held back by their code back in the 90s.
00:22:38
Speaker
I mean, anyone that's played Theater of Magic, you shoot the left orbit all day long.
00:22:42
Speaker
And it just gives you millions and millions of points.
00:22:45
Speaker
I mean, it's just not.
00:22:46
Speaker
Well, if you're going for points wise.
00:22:49
Speaker
And we talked, we talked to Josh Sharp and this is in our interview where he's planning on doing a cactus Canyon, you know,
Critique of Marketing Strategies
00:22:56
Speaker
remake with the code.
00:22:58
Speaker
And he said, I have ideas for other codes too.
00:23:01
Speaker
Right.
00:23:02
Speaker
In a, in a let's pretend world.
00:23:04
Speaker
He's like, I,
00:23:05
Speaker
hey, there are ways of updating some of these older games so they would actually compete on the level of a modern rule set.
00:23:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:15
Speaker
But like that, that's the aspect of what you're talking about there, Josh, when it comes to J-Pop designing a game underneath, you know, the Williams, you know, control system and everything they had there versus what he was doing with Raza at Deep Root.
00:23:27
Speaker
And it's like, definitely, I can tell a difference between what we know shoots well and what was going to possibly be sent out to the public at that time.
00:23:37
Speaker
And Raza was not good.
00:23:41
Speaker
It just wasn't.
00:23:42
Speaker
I mean, and it sucks, but I mean, I can definitely see, you know, the J pop esque stuff sprinkled throughout there and stuff like that.
00:23:51
Speaker
But it definitely was my least favorite thing to shoot of his.
00:23:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:55
Speaker
I don't know.
00:23:57
Speaker
I just don't, I don't see why we bring this back and it's interesting.
00:24:00
Speaker
So we're talking Dutch pinball exclusive, right?
00:24:03
Speaker
So it sounds like they're going to do Alice in Wonderland plans for Raza and plans for magic girl.
00:24:09
Speaker
Um,
00:24:11
Speaker
And then on top of that, supposedly they've got the license to do Big Bang Bar.
00:24:15
Speaker
And what was the other one?
00:24:18
Speaker
Kingpin?
00:24:19
Speaker
Sure.
00:24:19
Speaker
Okay.
00:24:20
Speaker
Why?
00:24:20
Speaker
Okay.
00:24:21
Speaker
The amount of people on the planet who are asking for a Kingpin remake are less than five.
00:24:26
Speaker
That's why I was like, why?
00:24:28
Speaker
Big Bang Bar is mainly just the rarity of it.
00:24:31
Speaker
I've only played Big Bang Bar once or twice at a previous TPF that someone happened to bring, and it was at auction.
00:24:38
Speaker
And I don't really remember it that well.
00:24:40
Speaker
I know it looks cool.
00:24:41
Speaker
It's a Capcom game and everything, you know, and stuff.
00:24:43
Speaker
But it's just mainly the rarity of it that draws the, you know, the need for it or the obsession.
00:24:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:50
Speaker
And there's less than 200.
00:24:51
Speaker
I think there's one 90 of all total on those.
00:24:54
Speaker
Okay.
00:24:54
Speaker
With big bang bar, I will actually say though, there is an excellent article.
00:24:58
Speaker
We have referenced it before.
00:25:00
Speaker
It was a written, it's on polygon.
00:25:02
Speaker
It's when pigs flew the strange history of Capcom's big bang bar.
00:25:07
Speaker
And it was by Brian.
00:25:10
Speaker
Uh,
00:25:10
Speaker
Crescenti, C-R-E-C-E-N-T-E.
00:25:13
Speaker
Just look at it.
00:25:14
Speaker
It was six years ago.
00:25:16
Speaker
It is an excellent read.
00:25:17
Speaker
And it's interesting because in many ways you can look at Big Bang Bar and him making those very similar to taking forever for Big Lebowski to make.
00:25:29
Speaker
So maybe that's something that they're thinking, hey, we can continue that.
00:25:34
Speaker
But Big Bang Bar, it's...
00:25:36
Speaker
I don't know.
00:25:37
Speaker
I haven't played it enough to say that it's an awesome game.
00:25:41
Speaker
I've only played electronic versions of it.
00:25:44
Speaker
With the Kingpin, I don't see any demand for that.
00:25:50
Speaker
So what are they planning on doing?
00:25:52
Speaker
Are they planning on selling these at a premium price
Pinball Brothers' Release Approach
00:25:55
Speaker
with a limited quantity?
00:25:56
Speaker
Is that pretty much... Yeah, it's probably a low count number, one or 200, if I had to guess, 300 max.
00:26:02
Speaker
I thought they said they were going to do 500 at around 15,000.
00:26:05
Speaker
I don't know.
00:26:06
Speaker
You know what?
00:26:07
Speaker
Okay.
00:26:09
Speaker
I don't know.
00:26:10
Speaker
Okay.
00:26:12
Speaker
There are probably.
00:26:13
Speaker
Okay.
00:26:14
Speaker
I know there are people out there who have that kind of money who are willing to pay for exclusivity.
00:26:20
Speaker
That is not something I'm interested in.
00:26:22
Speaker
I'm interested in if the game shoots well and has some awesome bells and whistles, I'm willing to pay for that.
00:26:31
Speaker
But I am not willing to pay just for exclusivity.
00:26:35
Speaker
Well, you got a lot of people out there that are... Now, whether or not that's 200 or 300, I don't know about that.
00:26:40
Speaker
There are people who are, and I don't want to make the mistake to think that I am the only pinball demographic that's out there.
00:26:47
Speaker
What I will say is that this is not my demographic they will be going for.
00:26:54
Speaker
So, hopefully, as long as it's a good faith effort and that this isn't some weird thing, then I say, go ahead.
00:27:04
Speaker
I'm not really looking forward to it other than it being a novelty item.
00:27:09
Speaker
Yeah, I see.
00:27:11
Speaker
I'm glad that Dutch pinball has basically corrected their reputation for what it was.
00:27:17
Speaker
And I think now that they're in everybody's good graces, they've seen what they can build with the Big Lebowski.
00:27:23
Speaker
So I think that the the.
00:27:26
Speaker
What's the, what's the word I'm looking for a confidence that the customer has in that particular manufacturer now is much greater than what it used to be.
00:27:33
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:27:34
Speaker
I wish that they could get the games out faster to people though, especially if they have, you know, rumored what they're building right now, then they need to get, you know, the ball rolling and get those games out faster, especially if I were one.
00:27:47
Speaker
And the rumor is back to the future.
00:27:50
Speaker
And I think it's more than a little bit of rumor.
00:27:52
Speaker
I, I,
00:27:53
Speaker
Anywho, someone, I felt like someone did spill the beans in a chat that works for Dutch, but we, I'm not going to cite that because if you didn't catch that, then it's a, you know, this is how rumors are spread.
00:28:05
Speaker
It's, I would say that the rumor is at least common knowledge enough to say it's public domain.
00:28:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:13
Speaker
Let's do that.
00:28:14
Speaker
It's all but confirmed kind of thing.
00:28:16
Speaker
All but confirmed.
00:28:17
Speaker
And so.
00:28:18
Speaker
Anywho, okay, let's move on.
00:28:20
Speaker
Dutch, I think we've ran the Dutch horse as far as it's going to go.
00:28:24
Speaker
But let's talk, now that we've confused the crap everybody because we keep saying Dutch and Pinball Brothers, why don't we talk about Pinball Brothers?
00:28:30
Speaker
Hey, we're not the only ones, I guarantee.
00:28:34
Speaker
They just released a new game.
00:28:35
Speaker
And I know that... Kerry was sending music to me.
00:28:39
Speaker
He's like, man, I haven't listened to these guys, but these are absolute bangers.
00:28:42
Speaker
And holy crap, I'm now an ABBA fan.
00:28:45
Speaker
What are they called?
00:28:46
Speaker
The ABBA-nauts or whatever it was?
00:28:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:51
Speaker
I will say... I was literally listening to... This is actually...
00:28:58
Speaker
Believe it or not, this is the demographic that is relevant today with the kids out there.
ABBA Playfield Layout Discussion
00:29:05
Speaker
Because I was completely unaware of this, but my nephews...
00:29:13
Speaker
are interested in like eighties rock, like the dad rock stuff that we keep saying it's, it's to that demographic of the, uh, the 40 to 60 year olds.
00:29:22
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:23
Speaker
This eighties pop music is actually a hit with kids right now.
00:29:27
Speaker
He is a huge ABBA fan and he has nothing to do with this.
00:29:31
Speaker
And so people who are saying this is a bad idea.
00:29:35
Speaker
Actually, I think it's a really good idea to do an ABBA game.
00:29:40
Speaker
ABBA's mainly 70s, though.
00:29:41
Speaker
Sure, because 70s and 80s, but...
00:29:45
Speaker
Their last concert before 2022 was in 82.
00:29:47
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:48
Speaker
So it was early 80s by the time that they had their last... Okay, that's fine.
00:29:51
Speaker
Yeah, early 80s.
00:29:53
Speaker
It's still in that wheelhouse, I guess.
00:29:56
Speaker
I'm not talking late 80s.
00:29:57
Speaker
I'm talking like pre-1985.
00:29:58
Speaker
Especially when you compare it to a lot of music that I hear these days or music quotes that I hear these days that I'm just like, this is a hit?
00:30:04
Speaker
I mean, this is horrible.
00:30:05
Speaker
So I would definitely rather listen to ABBA than to a lot of hits that I hear these days.
00:30:10
Speaker
I already sound like an old man.
00:30:11
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:30:12
Speaker
But like... Ah, my music.
00:30:13
Speaker
You know, the problem with...
00:30:15
Speaker
The problem with their music and my music is their music stinks.
00:30:20
Speaker
Like all the modern stuff.
00:30:23
Speaker
It's terrible.
00:30:24
Speaker
I'm not going to lie.
00:30:25
Speaker
After I watch a sign languager do WAP, I feel like I got to take a cold shower.
00:30:30
Speaker
I'm not going to lie.
00:30:33
Speaker
I haven't seen it, but now you got me curious.
00:30:35
Speaker
I'm going to watch that now.
00:30:37
Speaker
By the way, I'll find you the clip.
00:30:39
Speaker
I'll find you the clip.
00:30:41
Speaker
That can't be real.
00:30:42
Speaker
Just like the pinball turn on.
00:30:45
Speaker
It is.
00:30:46
Speaker
When it comes to ABBA, it was one of those where I was like, okay, well, you know, this is a thing.
00:30:51
Speaker
I definitely need to kind of brush up on what's going on.
00:30:54
Speaker
Maybe I know more about these people than I actually do.
00:30:57
Speaker
Maybe there is something to this.
00:30:58
Speaker
And so I put on their greatest hit stuff at work.
00:31:01
Speaker
And it was one of those things where the song would start up.
00:31:04
Speaker
And I was like, this is ABBA.
00:31:06
Speaker
I was like, I know this.
00:31:07
Speaker
I've heard this before.
00:31:08
Speaker
I just didn't know it was them kind of thing.
00:31:10
Speaker
yeah and my wife sings their stuff at karaoke so it's like yeah she's all about abba well honestly so i i don't know if you know this but i actually dj dances and and different events like weddings and whatnot abba's still one of the top requested
Nostalgia and Gameplay Appeal
00:31:26
Speaker
like dancing queen is one of the top requested songs and it's it's 50 years later like i don't know what to tell you like it's
00:31:34
Speaker
And here's the thing, too.
00:31:35
Speaker
So I was doing research on ABBA after I was kind of baffled that ABBA was really the thing that was coming out.
00:31:42
Speaker
They're bigger than the Beatles in some areas in Europe.
00:31:45
Speaker
If you're a European company like Pinball Brothers is, and you're aiming, in my opinion, it doesn't make sense to aim for the American market because you have tons of competition here.
00:31:56
Speaker
But in Europe, your competition is...
00:31:58
Speaker
It's not – you've got Dutch Pinball and you've got Pendretti at this point, right?
00:32:02
Speaker
And so if you're really wanting to disrupt and take over that market, you're going to go with titles that are known to European company or to Europe.
00:32:12
Speaker
Queen and ABBA are insanely popular over there.
00:32:16
Speaker
Like if you're beating out the Beatles in Sweden, wow, like that's impressive to me.
00:32:22
Speaker
So I don't know where I was going with this.
00:32:24
Speaker
Well, to your point, when it comes to the demographic, their choice of demographic, they chose Abba for a reason, because it's basically in their hometown of where they're currently at.
00:32:33
Speaker
So their demographic is where they're at.
00:32:36
Speaker
But wouldn't you think when it came to marketing this game that they would still...
00:32:41
Speaker
try to cast a large net, I mean, or do what a lot of the other successful manufacturers out there do when it comes to releasing a new title, proper videos and get the images out, higher quality of this and that versus whatever they want to call what they did.
00:32:59
Speaker
The potato cam.
00:33:00
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:01
Speaker
The thing that I truly don't understand with, uh,
00:33:05
Speaker
most pinball companies is I have to remind myself, it's kind of like the NFL.
00:33:10
Speaker
The NFL is you would think for, uh, for as big of a business, the NFL is that they would be run more professionally on many levels.
00:33:21
Speaker
And there are so many things that are just amateur level.
00:33:25
Speaker
And when it comes to marketing, yeah, Stern has something that's very predictable.
00:33:31
Speaker
Okay.
The Role of Marketing in Game Success
00:33:32
Speaker
You have like a tease and then you have like the, the, the, you know, the, the sizzle reel.
00:33:39
Speaker
And then you have like the, what is, so they have basically the set predictable thing when they're releasing games.
00:33:47
Speaker
Jersey Jack has the best sizzle reel thing, the best reveals that they've done.
00:33:53
Speaker
And everyone else, it just, it feels like a high school marketing class.
00:33:59
Speaker
put most of these together.
00:34:01
Speaker
It really does feel like, okay, so what's your term project?
00:34:03
Speaker
What are you doing?
00:34:05
Speaker
And how are you going to do it?
00:34:07
Speaker
And it doesn't seem like they are able to know anything about marketing whatsoever.
00:34:13
Speaker
And I, I truly don't think that any pinball company really outside of Stern and, uh, and, and, uh,
00:34:24
Speaker
Stern and Jersey Jack feel like they have any professional involvement.
00:34:29
Speaker
Now, I will say Spooky does a good job about working the pinball world, doing their thing.
00:34:36
Speaker
They have great options.
00:34:38
Speaker
It still feels very high-end amateurish on many levels, and that's how I feel this reveal is.
00:34:47
Speaker
I still think spooky is better though than I don't know.
00:34:53
Speaker
Spooky could be on that level of JJP and stern when it comes to getting their product out there.
00:34:58
Speaker
They certainly have some of the best looking games.
00:35:02
Speaker
Like they're like the art on Halloween sold the game itself before people even played it.
00:35:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:09
Speaker
Well, and looking at stern, like obviously you're going to have hiccups sometimes, like obviously you can't plan plan when the queen's going to die.
00:35:16
Speaker
And, and you have a, an English title in James Bond trying to release the same time.
00:35:21
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:35:22
Speaker
Like, there's just certain things that it's going to be out of your control, but no, I agree.
00:35:25
Speaker
Like if you were to, uh, okay, let's, let's do this really quick.
00:35:28
Speaker
So I'm going to steal the bit from Dennis Creasel, right?
00:35:32
Speaker
Like, are you Josh here?
00:35:34
Speaker
Please tell me you're going to talk like a Batman.
00:35:37
Speaker
No, no, no.
00:35:38
Speaker
Are you, are you the Nord man?
00:35:40
Speaker
But Josh here.
00:35:42
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:42
Speaker
Your most important day on a release is the first week.
00:35:47
Speaker
You need to give us high quality photos.
00:35:49
Speaker
You need to give us high quality video.
00:35:51
Speaker
You need to give interviews behind the scenes about the product.
00:35:55
Speaker
Get people hyped.
00:35:58
Speaker
Your most marketing money should be going to day one release.
00:36:02
Speaker
Because six months later, when you try to revamp and reload, people just don't care.
00:36:08
Speaker
And if you're not taking advantage of the hype on week one, you're shooting yourself in the foot.
00:36:13
Speaker
There you go.
00:36:15
Speaker
And that's the thing is that there's a lot of people,
ABBA's Market Performance Predictions
00:36:18
Speaker
even today, like I posted a video talking about this release with ABBA and everything, and I got comments already that people didn't even know that this game...
00:36:26
Speaker
was it released?
00:36:27
Speaker
They didn't even know it existed.
00:36:28
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah, I know.
00:36:29
Speaker
They kind of just said, hey, we have a game, guys.
00:36:32
Speaker
Just thought we'd let you know.
00:36:33
Speaker
Just kind of nonchalantly throw that into a conversation.
00:36:35
Speaker
It's out there in the ether.
00:36:37
Speaker
But it wasn't like, you know, it's just poor marketing when it comes to at least trying to
00:36:45
Speaker
get as much attention and focus on it at one time.
00:36:48
Speaker
I don't know why they chose to do it this way.
00:36:51
Speaker
If it's their method.
00:36:52
Speaker
But like I said in my video, like previously, if you look at their trailers and announcement videos for the previous games, there was so much more effort into it versus whatever was put into this.
00:37:03
Speaker
It seems like it was very half ass.
00:37:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:08
Speaker
Okay.
00:37:08
Speaker
Here's another marketing cue.
00:37:12
Speaker
I went to the pinball brothers website.
00:37:14
Speaker
Okay.
00:37:15
Speaker
Just no, no, no.
00:37:16
Speaker
Just type it in.
00:37:17
Speaker
Okay.
00:37:18
Speaker
It actually, you can go to the website.
00:37:21
Speaker
So, so type it in pinballbrothers.com.
00:37:23
Speaker
That's not a jab at any other pinball.
00:37:25
Speaker
Nope.
00:37:26
Speaker
Nope.
00:37:26
Speaker
Okay.
00:37:28
Speaker
And just the splash screen that comes up, which game do you think of?
00:37:34
Speaker
Stranger Things.
00:37:35
Speaker
Right.
00:37:35
Speaker
Okay.
00:37:36
Speaker
Not your game at all.
00:37:38
Speaker
That's a Stern game.
00:37:40
Speaker
I had to question, was I on the Pinball Brothers website?
00:37:44
Speaker
Because it is in the vibe of a different game done by a different manufacturer.
00:37:51
Speaker
I had to scroll down for ABBA.
00:37:55
Speaker
If I were a marketing guy, I would look at that and say, hey, we have ABBA coming out, so we need to have the splash screen that emphasizes some late 70s, early 80s dance vibe.
00:38:10
Speaker
So what it seems like to me, because I've never seen it this close up before, it looks like they are leaning heavily towards AI art.
00:38:18
Speaker
That's what I was about to say, yep.
00:38:19
Speaker
This is... I wonder if their entire art package is AI.
00:38:24
Speaker
I wonder if they are saving so much money on art, which is the most expensive portion of a game, on just saying, hey, we need
ABBA Game Features and Audience Appeal
00:38:31
Speaker
this.
00:38:31
Speaker
that's a really good question.
00:38:33
Speaker
I didn't really think about that, but it looks like fingers, count the fingers.
00:38:36
Speaker
That's what I'm looking at right now.
00:38:37
Speaker
I'm like, wait, one, two, that's because fingers, they always mess up on the hands.
00:38:40
Speaker
These computers do those hands on the guitarist on the right.
00:38:43
Speaker
Look a little rough.
00:38:45
Speaker
I don't know.
00:38:46
Speaker
Uh, yeah, no, but I, I do love the, uh, the all white spandex.
00:38:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:55
Speaker
That's, that's what popped out to me too.
00:38:57
Speaker
It was like, wow.
00:38:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:59
Speaker
It's, it's like they, they took the, uh,
00:39:02
Speaker
They took the artistic inspiration from Torpedo Alley.
00:39:07
Speaker
What makes me laugh, too, so I've never been to this website.
00:39:09
Speaker
Thanks for pointing this out, Scott.
00:39:11
Speaker
Please join us, because like Scott said, you come up and it does very much for what Strangers is.
00:39:15
Speaker
It looks like Stranger Things, yeah.
00:39:17
Speaker
But as you scroll down, you get ABBA, read more.
00:39:19
Speaker
And then the next thing is Revive the Thrill, rated R restricted.
00:39:24
Speaker
I know, right?
00:39:25
Speaker
And I was like, wait, is ABBA restricted?
00:39:28
Speaker
I guess Alien was, but like...
00:39:32
Speaker
I don't feel like the game was something I want to let my kids play.
00:39:35
Speaker
But then it says pinball could can be considered addictive and should be treated accordingly.
00:39:39
Speaker
Ask your parents permission before it leads to reckless behavior.
00:39:43
Speaker
That's kind of a weird.
00:39:45
Speaker
It's kind of a weird thing to put on your website.
00:39:49
Speaker
Like ABBA is ready to are like what?
00:39:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:55
Speaker
What kind of game is this?
00:39:56
Speaker
What's like?
00:39:56
Speaker
What am I going to see?
00:39:59
Speaker
It's weird.
00:39:59
Speaker
I'm actually really curious.
00:40:01
Speaker
We're doing something live right now.
00:40:03
Speaker
We are creating the image generator for this episode.
00:40:07
Speaker
Paint Carrie Hardy, Scott Larson, and Josh Roop podcasting about pinball.
00:40:15
Speaker
Put us in a watch spandex.
00:40:17
Speaker
Put us in a watch spandex.
00:40:20
Speaker
So while you're booking that out, did you read this ABBA, like this flyer?
00:40:26
Speaker
Like, have you read this?
00:40:27
Speaker
The winter takes it all.
00:40:29
Speaker
The winter takes it all.
00:40:30
Speaker
Buckle up for the ultimate ABBA adventure.
00:40:32
Speaker
Your mission is to make ABBA immortal by forging their avatars.
00:40:38
Speaker
I love, by the way, the avatar.
00:40:41
Speaker
That is genius.
00:40:43
Speaker
To succeed, you must gather their souls and travel through time and space.
00:40:49
Speaker
Also, you can open the portal to the voyage dimension where the ancient medallion of power hides.
00:40:54
Speaker
What the heck were they?
00:40:56
Speaker
Well, they also kind of messed up on the English right there.
00:40:58
Speaker
All so you can open the portal instead of also you can order.
00:41:02
Speaker
I don't know if that's even worded correctly that there as well, but it's like you can also open the portal to the voyage dimension.
00:41:08
Speaker
Okay, by the way, I just time and dimensions.
00:41:12
Speaker
I love that.
00:41:12
Speaker
I was trying to get like them to paint us a picture, but it actually wrote us a review.
Conclusion on ABBA's Market Potential
00:41:21
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:41:22
Speaker
Carrie Hardy, Scott Larson and Josh Rupp are the dynamic trio.
00:41:25
Speaker
We're a trio now behind loser kid pinball podcast.
00:41:28
Speaker
This delightful podcast features these two pinball enthusiasts.
00:41:32
Speaker
Apparently someone died casually chatting about all things related to pinball.
00:41:36
Speaker
Anyway.
00:41:38
Speaker
While I can't physically paint them or put anyone in white spandex, I can certainly imagine a whimsical scene where they're recording their podcast while decked out in snug, stretchy white outfits.
00:41:55
Speaker
So really what's going to happen, Carrie, you're coming to Expo, right?
00:41:57
Speaker
I should be, yeah.
00:41:58
Speaker
You should be.
00:41:59
Speaker
Spandex!
00:42:00
Speaker
All spandex!
00:42:01
Speaker
All spandex!
00:42:04
Speaker
The ABBA tribute band featuring us.
00:42:07
Speaker
The tripod.
00:42:09
Speaker
Like, I'm looking at the art, and it's like things that only ABBA fans would know, and this is something I just recently got a phone call from somebody explaining this to me, but the Voyage version, like the Bat Glass, where it has the four of them looking weird.
00:42:24
Speaker
yeah because this is basically the voyage concert is like a holographic version of them okay so yeah so they're not actually up on stage evidently during this particular voyage concert it's merely hologram versions of them playing music and stuff kind of like isn't that what kissed it on their last show they like came out as as maybe gorillas does that
00:42:52
Speaker
but it's weird.
00:42:53
Speaker
Like the heads look like almost like stone hedge, like wizard of Oz.
00:42:57
Speaker
Like, yeah.
00:42:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:01
Speaker
It's not good.
00:43:03
Speaker
Okay.
00:43:04
Speaker
So, but okay.
00:43:05
Speaker
Do you really think the artwork is AI generated?
00:43:08
Speaker
They had to pay someone, right?
00:43:10
Speaker
Like,
00:43:11
Speaker
I think when it comes to... Because you have to get the proper placement for the inserts and everything like that.
00:43:20
Speaker
So I think at least on the cabinet...
00:43:24
Speaker
was probably assisted with AI.
00:43:26
Speaker
It would not surprise me.
00:43:28
Speaker
As far as the play field goes, I'm looking at it right now and everything.
00:43:31
Speaker
I mean, it looks like it's, you know, fine to an extent.
00:43:36
Speaker
I think the
Upcoming Projects and NDA Hints
00:43:37
Speaker
play field is more, is definitely better than the cabinet.
00:43:41
Speaker
Agreed.
00:43:43
Speaker
It almost reminds me Beatles-esque.
00:43:45
Speaker
And I know like Franchi did Beatles.
00:43:47
Speaker
And Beatles is, I'm going to admit, is a lot better than this.
00:43:49
Speaker
But when I say like Beatles-esque, it's got that like 60s, 70s vibe looking at this.
00:43:56
Speaker
I feel like this artwork is better than what Queen had.
00:43:59
Speaker
I don't know.
00:44:00
Speaker
Yeah, definitely better than Queen.
00:44:02
Speaker
I'm getting closer to images on the play field right here.
00:44:05
Speaker
And honestly, that looks pretty good.
00:44:07
Speaker
Versions of them on the play field.
00:44:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:09
Speaker
Hell of a lot better than Rush.
00:44:13
Speaker
Hey, that was a comic book.
00:44:16
Speaker
Okay.
00:44:17
Speaker
In fairness.
00:44:18
Speaker
I give Mike all the time.
00:44:19
Speaker
Even when Joss came out, he was like, please be gentle.
00:44:23
Speaker
In fairness, legitimately, people were talking about like, that's not how they look.
00:44:27
Speaker
And he showed us the pictures that they sent him to illustrate.
00:44:31
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah, actually, that looks really close.
00:44:35
Speaker
Like, this is what the band sent him.
00:44:37
Speaker
It's...
Stern Pinball's Potential Public Offering
00:44:38
Speaker
And if the band likes it, that's all that matters.
00:44:41
Speaker
No, I actually, I thought, I thought it was very fun.
00:44:44
Speaker
And actually, well, I do have, uh, I have 2112 and I have the comic that's with 2112 and it actually is in that style.
00:44:53
Speaker
So it's, uh, it was, it was thematically correct.
00:44:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:57
Speaker
It's weird.
00:44:57
Speaker
Cause there's like no information on this game.
00:44:59
Speaker
I can't find who's who did the design.
00:45:01
Speaker
I can't find artwork.
00:45:03
Speaker
This is weird.
00:45:04
Speaker
Anyhow, sorry to cut you off.
00:45:06
Speaker
No, that's the, but that's the whole point is that it seems that, you know, it's yeah.
00:45:12
Speaker
I don't understand the, yeah, the play field.
00:45:15
Speaker
I, I, you know, the play field kind of, I, I, I want to try to figure out what's going on here.
00:45:24
Speaker
Well, it's a little difficult whenever you don't have the, the appropriate media to help.
00:45:29
Speaker
Those of us out there that are in pinball and would be interested in this is something that we should add to our collection.
00:45:34
Speaker
We don't have any good gameplay footage or anything like that or anything that should.
00:45:40
Speaker
Persuade us that's giving us money, giving them money kind of thing.
00:45:44
Speaker
That's what was blowing my mind.
00:45:45
Speaker
So they've got they've got like five videos out.
00:45:47
Speaker
Right.
00:45:48
Speaker
And they're all like potato cam.
00:45:49
Speaker
They're all.
00:45:50
Speaker
over someone's shoulder.
00:45:51
Speaker
Like pinball news just released two that actually look half decent, at least like the qualities.
00:45:57
Speaker
The camera is fine on it.
00:45:58
Speaker
But I'm getting frustrated because I'm watching these.
00:46:00
Speaker
I'm like, I want to see the helicopter.
00:46:02
Speaker
I want to see the balls lock into the helicopter.
00:46:04
Speaker
Right.
00:46:04
Speaker
I don't think any videos show that.
00:46:06
Speaker
The beginning of their 19 minute video, I'm guessing you guys haven't watched the actual video, the launch trailer, quote unquote trailer for this, because that was one of my complaints during my video today was that at least last night they did not have their trailer video available.
00:46:26
Speaker
And so it was like, what the hell, guys?
00:46:28
Speaker
I mean, it was at the beginning of their reveal for the game.
00:46:31
Speaker
wherever they revealed it over there, but it was not, uh, available online for anybody else to look at.
00:46:37
Speaker
I'm about to send it to you guys so you can see.
00:46:40
Speaker
So, but at the beginning of that 19 some odd minute video that was released by pinball news, they do have this video, but it's merely a recording of the video that's playing on a projector screen.
00:46:52
Speaker
So you're not getting like, you know, the full quality up close.
00:46:55
Speaker
I can pause it to figure out the shot, you know, layout and stuff like that.
00:46:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:00
Speaker
And the video overall is pretty amateurish, but it's like, man, it just could have been done.
00:47:07
Speaker
It's like someone with a GoPro.
00:47:10
Speaker
What made me chuckle is like people the first day this came out were asking us like, where does this shot lead?
00:47:16
Speaker
Like, does the ramp just go up to the, I'm assuming that's a gold record or is that like a symbol from a drum set?
00:47:23
Speaker
I don't know.
00:47:24
Speaker
Anywho, but they couldn't see that it did a 180 flip and came back to the in lane because of the way the pitchers are taken.
00:47:31
Speaker
And then they were confused by the spinner right below the ramp.
00:47:34
Speaker
And, and honestly, it's funny.
00:47:36
Speaker
Cause when we first got these pictures, I'm like, it's really weird.
00:47:38
Speaker
They did a, a two flipper layout and Travis Murray's like, Josh, there's a third flipper.
00:47:44
Speaker
And he points it out.
00:47:46
Speaker
It's black.
00:47:47
Speaker
It's like, it's hard to see.
00:47:49
Speaker
It's in the left orbit.
00:47:52
Speaker
But yeah, it's has sounds like a piano shop in the Twilight Zone.
00:47:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:58
Speaker
But yeah, that that right ramp feeds back to the right flipper via the wire form.
00:48:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:03
Speaker
But yeah, as far as like even the hardware that they use for the record, the gold record, I'm guessing that's what they created as a gold record.
00:48:09
Speaker
I don't know if they ever went platinum or if the platinum was available back then.
00:48:12
Speaker
I don't know.
00:48:13
Speaker
I bet they went diamond.
00:48:14
Speaker
I kind of wish that they would have used some different hardware because, I mean, that kind of looks weird holding up that particular record right there.
00:48:20
Speaker
They could have done some recessed screws or something in there to make that look a little bit better.
00:48:25
Speaker
I don't know.
00:48:26
Speaker
That's nitpicking.
00:48:27
Speaker
I want to paint a smiley face underneath it.
00:48:32
Speaker
But you get a spinning disco ball.
00:48:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:34
Speaker
So there's something.
00:48:35
Speaker
I don't even have that in my Deadpool.
00:48:37
Speaker
I wish I did.
00:48:38
Speaker
I have it.
00:48:40
Speaker
So ABBA is one of the very few bands.
00:48:41
Speaker
So I don't know if you guys know this.
00:48:43
Speaker
So Gold is like, I want to say 50,000 albums.
00:48:47
Speaker
And then Platinum is either.
00:48:50
Speaker
Gold is half a million.
00:48:51
Speaker
Platinum is a million.
00:48:52
Speaker
That can be right, because Diamond's a million.
00:48:55
Speaker
No, Diamond's a million.
00:48:58
Speaker
I think diamonds because double platinum.
00:49:01
Speaker
Let's see.
00:49:01
Speaker
But something that you don't get in the description of the game or even in the pictures, but you get it in that video for a moment is at the top of that left ramp towards the very back.
00:49:11
Speaker
There's a magnet and kind of like the telekinesis magnet for Stranger Things.
00:49:16
Speaker
Maybe that's why they use Stranger Things font.
00:49:18
Speaker
Maybe.
00:49:20
Speaker
It just hit me.
00:49:21
Speaker
I was like, wait a minute.
00:49:22
Speaker
But at the back of that ramp, there's a magnet.
00:49:24
Speaker
I guess they can activate it instead of the ball sometimes leading back down the wire form to your left flipper.
00:49:29
Speaker
It can drop down the dropout hole of that particular ramp into the pops or the actually whatever's going on up underneath there.
00:49:35
Speaker
It looks like there's targets or something probably feeds to your left orbit.
00:49:40
Speaker
I don't know.
00:49:40
Speaker
It's hard to tell.
00:49:40
Speaker
All we got is images.
00:49:42
Speaker
Okay.
00:49:42
Speaker
Just in case you're wondering, Scott, yeah.
00:49:44
Speaker
Gold is 500,000 platinum is 1 million.
00:49:47
Speaker
Multi-platinum is obviously more than one.
00:49:50
Speaker
So like 2 million diamond is 10 million, 10 million.
00:49:54
Speaker
So, sorry.
00:49:55
Speaker
So there's not very many diamond album albums out there.
00:49:58
Speaker
No, there's one of them actually is Alba.
00:50:01
Speaker
ABBA's greatest hits achieved diamond status back in May of 2000.
00:50:05
Speaker
Okay.
00:50:06
Speaker
So, ta-da.
00:50:08
Speaker
Okay, so I'm just trying to get an idea how this game shoots by looking at everything, and this looks like a cluster of non-flow up here at the top of the game.
00:50:18
Speaker
I mean, I've got my targets, I've got my pops, I've got some looks-like drops, another pop that's underneath the left ramp.
00:50:27
Speaker
I mean, the orbits may be smooth, but I think if you get it up there in that top region of the game, it's going to be a bunch of bouncing around kind of thing.
00:50:38
Speaker
Basically you have a ramp that feeds back to the flippers and then just, uh,
00:50:45
Speaker
It's like a center scoop.
00:50:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:47
Speaker
And then I hate standups around standups on the backside of the helicopter.
00:50:52
Speaker
You've got drops on the right side.
00:50:54
Speaker
So I was watching the video, the orbits.
00:50:56
Speaker
So if you hit the right over, it obviously comes around to the upper left flipper and then you can kind of repeat the, the center spinner shot from what I could tell.
00:51:04
Speaker
I didn't see anyone repeat it, but then again, it is what it is.
00:51:08
Speaker
But I noticed when people are hitting the left orbit,
00:51:10
Speaker
There is, if you look in the very back of the pinball machine, there is like a gate back there and it would stop it from going all the way around and drop it down into the pops.
00:51:20
Speaker
It may be a control gate because it looks like you've got a gate behind the disco ball and a gate above the right side and left side.
00:51:27
Speaker
So it looks like it would be, they may be controlled gates to keep it kind of like the old school solid state games where the ball would go up there and bounce back and forth for a little while and eventually drop down into it.
00:51:38
Speaker
And that's what it looks like.
00:51:39
Speaker
So I don't know if they're controlled gates, but that's what it looks like.
00:51:42
Speaker
We got a gate right now, but yeah,
00:51:45
Speaker
separated pops.
00:51:46
Speaker
That's interesting.
00:51:47
Speaker
You got one on one side and two on the other.
00:51:49
Speaker
And as far as that upper left flipper shot, I mean, I can't tell, but it looks like it may not be repeatable.
00:51:55
Speaker
It looks like it would go up and hit a target and then drop into the pops.
00:52:00
Speaker
It's yeah.
00:52:01
Speaker
It's hard to tell if, if that's like a, a warp ramp shot.
00:52:07
Speaker
but it's difficult for you guys listening or even watching on youtube to see what the hell we're talking about because we're seeing the images you're not but i'm telling you right now there's only certain images that are available because god forbid they want to release everything for us to see you're probably understanding website yeah it seems like they had a little bit more there under yeah so yeah there is a little bit actually i'm at nap arcade where are you
00:52:33
Speaker
I'm on their website.
00:52:36
Speaker
Things that I like.
00:52:37
Speaker
I don't want to seem like I'm just crapping all over this game.
00:52:39
Speaker
Things I like.
00:52:40
Speaker
I like the glowing targets on the ramps.
00:52:44
Speaker
They've had those on all their other games.
00:52:45
Speaker
I really like how those glow.
00:52:46
Speaker
I like that.
00:52:47
Speaker
The left ramp, I like how if you look at it from the above point of view, it looks like it's got the... Kind of like the...
00:52:56
Speaker
Whirlpool style, where if you launch it up there, it's going to do like a Cactus Canyon loop around when you first plunge a ball.
00:53:03
Speaker
And that's either going to basically get magnetized to drop down into your left orbit, or it's going to just continuously circle around that plastic to feed into the wire form.
00:53:12
Speaker
That looks interesting.
00:53:14
Speaker
I like that.
00:53:15
Speaker
Disco ball, always cool.
00:53:18
Speaker
Art is tolerable on the play field as far as the mechanical nature of the helicopter.
00:53:23
Speaker
Don't know yet.
00:53:24
Speaker
Uh,
00:53:26
Speaker
the blade spin.
00:53:27
Speaker
So that's a perk, but how everything else goes inside.
00:53:31
Speaker
One ball drops on one side, one ball drops on the other side.
00:53:33
Speaker
Would have liked to have seen that in action.
00:53:34
Speaker
You get like a little glimpse of it in that 54 second video.
00:53:38
Speaker
I sent you guys.
00:53:39
Speaker
Okay.
00:53:40
Speaker
Now the, uh, I'm hoping the disco ball, I mean, you asked about, uh, you know, Deadpool and yeah, Deadpool,
00:53:47
Speaker
There is the disco ball in Deadpool that's in one mode, which you really don't get to that much.
00:53:51
Speaker
So I hope you don't feel like you're missing anything, Kerry.
00:53:55
Speaker
I get a little bit of it with my Penn Stadiums with the UV.
00:53:58
Speaker
I got it hooked up to where it would be giving me the flasher effect or the Dazzler multiball and stuff.
00:54:03
Speaker
So I still get a little bit of it, but just to be nice to kind of have it.
00:54:06
Speaker
I'm hoping – and I get it.
00:54:08
Speaker
You're not missing that much really.
00:54:10
Speaker
But I'm hoping they implement it more in this game because that is a cool disco ball is cool.
00:54:16
Speaker
Like it's, it's a cool effect from a certain era.
00:54:20
Speaker
I'm, I'm with you carry on this.
00:54:21
Speaker
Like why haven't they released this video before?
00:54:24
Speaker
So it's a, like you said, it's a 54 second video.
00:54:27
Speaker
It's, it's cool.
00:54:28
Speaker
Like, yeah, you got the spinners on it and whatnot.
00:54:30
Speaker
Oh, I didn't even notice that.
00:54:31
Speaker
So that what you're talking about, uh, that, that left ramp, there is a magnet in there that kind of drops the ball down in.
00:54:37
Speaker
Okay.
00:54:38
Speaker
That's cool.
00:54:39
Speaker
Um,
00:54:40
Speaker
Yeah, this was released 15 hours ago.
00:54:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:44
Speaker
700 views.
00:54:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:45
Speaker
That's kind of weird for a brand new release of a game.
00:54:50
Speaker
Now, here's the next question I'm kind of curious about.
00:54:52
Speaker
Let me look up Pinball Brothers on Facebook to see if they shared this video on their Facebook page.
00:55:00
Speaker
I mean, just out of curiosity to see how up to par.
00:55:05
Speaker
Okay, they did release it 15 hours ago on their Facebook.
00:55:07
Speaker
Okay, so I'll give them there.
00:55:09
Speaker
They did that.
00:55:11
Speaker
Numbers aren't separate on YouTube from America to Europe, would they?
00:55:16
Speaker
I mean, it should be all combined.
00:55:18
Speaker
540 subscribers?
00:55:24
Speaker
I'm one of those.
00:55:25
Speaker
It's like, I follow them.
00:55:26
Speaker
I look forward to what they bring out, but this one was a little bit of underwhelming.
00:55:30
Speaker
But as of last night, I literally recorded a video questioning to my patrons, like, you know, why had they not released the trailer that is on that 19 minute video to the public?
00:55:41
Speaker
Right.
00:55:41
Speaker
And then it was there like today.
00:55:43
Speaker
So I'm like, I'm like, I wonder if word got out that I was curious about that or what.
00:55:47
Speaker
Okay.
00:55:48
Speaker
Now,
00:55:49
Speaker
Marketing aside, okay?
00:55:52
Speaker
Marketing, obviously there are issues with marketing that we think should be better.
00:55:56
Speaker
What are your thoughts on the game?
00:55:59
Speaker
Like, do you think that this is something you're interested in?
00:56:01
Speaker
Do you think it's going to compete with other games at a similar price point?
00:56:07
Speaker
No.
00:56:07
Speaker
Oh, and the price point on this.
00:56:09
Speaker
That's when we didn't hit on yet, the price.
00:56:10
Speaker
Yeah, price.
00:56:12
Speaker
Okay.
00:56:13
Speaker
Standard edition is what, 10K and the LE edition is 11?
00:56:18
Speaker
Or do I have that back?
00:56:19
Speaker
It was like 11.5, I thought.
00:56:21
Speaker
Yeah, something like that.
00:56:22
Speaker
Still, we're five digits.
00:56:24
Speaker
We're above 10K on both.
00:56:25
Speaker
We are.
00:56:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:27
Speaker
Which, what's Alien at?
00:56:30
Speaker
$7,500 still?
00:56:31
Speaker
Yeah, Ripley Edition.
00:56:33
Speaker
Get that topper with it.
00:56:35
Speaker
That's like one of the best values in pinball right now.
00:56:37
Speaker
If you get the damn Ripley Edition with the topper, that's a lot for what the price is.
00:56:43
Speaker
However, okay, compare this to Elton John.
00:56:48
Speaker
I'd rather have Elton John.
00:56:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:56:50
Speaker
Shout out to him.
00:56:51
Speaker
It's also more...
00:56:53
Speaker
It'd be more, but I know that the game shoots well also because one, you had really good media to get out there and I played it.
00:57:00
Speaker
That helps dramatically.
00:57:02
Speaker
Sure.
00:57:03
Speaker
But this is, this is, this is in that theme era of Elton John, right?
00:57:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:12
Speaker
At least it's visually, I think it's visually at least at the very minimum it's passable, but I would say it actually looks pretty good.
00:57:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:57:23
Speaker
So if something, if someone is interested in ABBA, then I would be curious about this.
00:57:31
Speaker
Again, this is not my demographic who is buying this, but I bet you're going to get more people actually interested in this game than you will in some other options, even at a lower price than this.
00:57:46
Speaker
You're going to, you're going to move some games.
00:57:50
Speaker
I think definitely for the hardcore ABBA fans.
00:57:52
Speaker
I mean, if you're a hardcore Elton fan, I'm sure Elton spoke to you.
00:57:56
Speaker
But the bonus about it being an Elton fan is that it's also Jersey Jack's best shooter.
00:58:02
Speaker
I mean, so not only are you going to be happy with the fact that it's a great theme for what you're interested in Elton John, it's their best shooter to date.
00:58:09
Speaker
So now it's a matter of like, OK, are you an ABBA fan?
00:58:12
Speaker
They got a theme for you.
00:58:13
Speaker
Does it shoot good?
00:58:14
Speaker
We don't know yet.
00:58:16
Speaker
Yeah, it's unknown, but I would say that at least right now, it's promising.
00:58:23
Speaker
But you are right.
00:58:24
Speaker
From a marketing standpoint, they missed the biggest window, which is the first week.
00:58:30
Speaker
So I think, I know we don't know how it shoots because we haven't played it yet.
00:58:35
Speaker
I think just looking at the layout, the layout looks like it's safe.
00:58:40
Speaker
And that's good.
00:58:41
Speaker
I'd rather see a layout like this and be like,
00:58:45
Speaker
okay, like I can imagine myself playing this and it probably somewhat being enjoyable or whatnot.
00:58:50
Speaker
There's some, there's some play fields I look at and I'm just like, yeah, there's no way that's going to shoot good.
00:58:55
Speaker
For me, queen was hard.
00:58:57
Speaker
I mean, me and Zach, many were both playing like queen back and forth and we were both like, man, this thing is not nice to us.
00:59:03
Speaker
I mean, like we miss a shot, it would just go out lane, out lane, out lane.
00:59:06
Speaker
Just my God.
00:59:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:09
Speaker
Queen felt like a late eighties game.
00:59:11
Speaker
That's what queen felt like.
00:59:12
Speaker
Okay.
00:59:13
Speaker
So back to your question, Scott.
00:59:15
Speaker
I want to hear from Carrie first.
00:59:16
Speaker
So Carrie, do you think this is a hit or a miss when it comes to, I guess, because then we got talking about price and whatnot, but what do you think of ABBA out the door?
00:59:27
Speaker
I think for an ABBA fan, because it's not my demographic, I don't want the game, but it may be fun to play.
00:59:32
Speaker
But I think definitely if you're an ABBA fan, and price is subjective, but I think this is their most expensive game to date.
00:59:42
Speaker
I don't see the value in it from my perspective for that price point, but I think what would really help me is if I knew how well it played.
00:59:53
Speaker
And I can't, I don't know for sure on this one.
00:59:55
Speaker
So I'm looking at it like it's a big if, maybe kind of thing.
00:59:59
Speaker
But I think for that price point, then it better be bringing something cool to the table.
01:00:04
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:05
Speaker
What do you think, Scott?
01:00:06
Speaker
Oh, go ahead.
01:00:06
Speaker
Sorry, I didn't cut.
01:00:07
Speaker
I was just saying, because even aesthetically, it's a little bit hard when it comes to the cabinet, at least, and the back glass.
01:00:13
Speaker
So...
01:00:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's not my demographic.
01:00:17
Speaker
But if you're an ABBA fan, and like I said, I've already got to find somebody that they put an order for one.
01:00:21
Speaker
They love it.
01:00:22
Speaker
They've already have another Pinball Brothers game, so they have confidence in what they can build.
01:00:26
Speaker
So they're all in on that because they even went to the Voyage concert and stuff like that.
01:00:31
Speaker
So I think definitely if you're an ABBA fan, this is probably like a dream come true for you.
01:00:37
Speaker
And I think that's part of what they were going for.
01:00:39
Speaker
But the guy that was on that 19-minute video stated that he was hoping that
01:00:43
Speaker
that this was going to be going towards the pinball community more than just ABBA fanatics.
01:00:49
Speaker
So if he's aiming towards the pinball community and not the ABBA fans, we need more footage.
01:00:59
Speaker
We need something.
01:01:00
Speaker
Give us a little more proof in the pudding kind of thing.
01:01:02
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:03
Speaker
Cause the next time the shows up, it probably will be an expo.
01:01:06
Speaker
I assume, but I don't know if anything in between there.
01:01:09
Speaker
So, okay, Scott, what are your thoughts?
01:01:12
Speaker
Success is company dependent.
01:01:18
Speaker
And so would this be a success for Stern?
01:01:22
Speaker
Probably not.
01:01:24
Speaker
Would total nuclear annihilation have been a success for Stern?
01:01:30
Speaker
Probably not because they have to sell a huge amount of them.
01:01:37
Speaker
Could this be a success for Pinball Brothers?
01:01:40
Speaker
Yeah, actually, I think it could because you're dealing with smaller numbers.
01:01:46
Speaker
You're dealing with a target, target release, target audience.
01:01:53
Speaker
I don't know what their break even point on this would be, how many they have to sell to be a success.
01:01:58
Speaker
This certainly has the potential to meet whatever internal demographic goals they have.
01:02:05
Speaker
So that's my take.
01:02:06
Speaker
What's yours, Josh?
01:02:07
Speaker
So overall, I think it is a hit in the sense of I think they've pulled a great theme for what demographic they're aiming for.
01:02:17
Speaker
They might be a little high on the price point, but then again, we're aiming for, I mean, ABBA, like we've said, is 70s to 80s.
01:02:24
Speaker
So you're probably aiming for what, 50, 60, 70-year-olds?
01:02:29
Speaker
You're aiming at people who are establishing a game room in their house.
01:02:35
Speaker
And they're probably not going to balk too much about it.
01:02:39
Speaker
But if you're willing to, like, if this appeals to you, more than likely you probably have the money to drop on it.
01:02:44
Speaker
Because, I don't know, it's like one of the rumors is Cuphead.
01:02:49
Speaker
Like, that's mostly a kid's game.
01:02:51
Speaker
Like, I don't know how much that's going to appeal to a 60, 70-year-old Maya grandfather that wants to play against Arcade.
01:02:57
Speaker
Zero.
01:02:57
Speaker
That's how much it'll appeal.
01:02:58
Speaker
Zero.
01:02:59
Speaker
But if you're an empty nester and you're still working and you have some free money to burn and ABBA's your jam, I think this is a hit.
01:03:08
Speaker
I think that, yeah, the playfell artwork is passable.
01:03:11
Speaker
I'm not a huge fan of the cabinet, like Karius said.
01:03:16
Speaker
It's just kind of weird.
01:03:18
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, lazy, almost AI-ish.
01:03:20
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:23
Speaker
But I, and layout feels safe.
01:03:25
Speaker
Like I said, I don't think safe is a bad thing in the pinball industry.
01:03:29
Speaker
I think code, I think if a good, if you can make a safe, fun shooting game, code can elevate, right?
01:03:37
Speaker
Oh, absolutely.
01:03:38
Speaker
And so I don't mind that it looks this way.
01:03:41
Speaker
And I agree.
01:03:42
Speaker
I'm going to have to get my hands to play on it.
01:03:44
Speaker
I,
01:03:44
Speaker
If I were to give it a grade right now, which I hate to do because we're doing first looks, not playing, I'd say average.
01:03:50
Speaker
I'd say 7 out of 10.
01:03:51
Speaker
So I think they've hit some high notes.
01:03:53
Speaker
I think they've hit some stuff that can be approved upon.
01:03:56
Speaker
But overall, I think ABBA is better than some of the games we've seen released this year and not as good as some of the other games released.
01:04:06
Speaker
So we're right in the middle of the pack, in my opinion, with this game.
01:04:09
Speaker
It has potential.
01:04:11
Speaker
But they they're going to have to work on it and develop it and market it better.
01:04:15
Speaker
Yep.
01:04:17
Speaker
All right.
01:04:17
Speaker
But that is out.
01:04:18
Speaker
Congratulations to pinball brothers on the release.
01:04:20
Speaker
I mean, we're getting a game out in general is always a big challenge.
01:04:22
Speaker
So any company that can get a game out, I have major props to you.
01:04:25
Speaker
I think overall we are in agreement on a lot of things that we see.
01:04:29
Speaker
We want to see more and we hope it shoots great.
01:04:33
Speaker
I mean, that would be hilarious if we play this at expo guys.
01:04:36
Speaker
And we're just like, damn it.
01:04:36
Speaker
You know what?
01:04:37
Speaker
This game is fricking amazing.
01:04:38
Speaker
Awesome.
01:04:40
Speaker
I love ABBA.
01:04:41
Speaker
Goodness gracious.
01:04:42
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:43
Speaker
I thought you loved ABBA after watching Mamma Mia this weekend, man.
01:04:46
Speaker
Evidently, I like a lot of their songs I didn't know I liked.
01:04:50
Speaker
Here you go.
01:04:51
Speaker
The other weird part about all this, so two founding members of Pinball Brothers also left this past year.
01:04:57
Speaker
So that's kind of goofy.
01:04:59
Speaker
They're Pinball Step Brothers now.
01:05:02
Speaker
I guess that's weird.
01:05:03
Speaker
All right.
01:05:04
Speaker
You know what, Kate, people leave companies all the time and, and not founding members though.
01:05:09
Speaker
Actually.
01:05:09
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:11
Speaker
What can happen when you do businesses?
01:05:14
Speaker
It's, it's really interesting because my sister went through this when she started charter school.
01:05:19
Speaker
There are actually analysis that state that.
01:05:23
Speaker
The type of people who start businesses are not usually the type of people who keep businesses.
01:05:31
Speaker
They're usually in perpetual startup mode.
01:05:35
Speaker
They'll start up, they'll get something, and then they sell the company to someone who wants to run a company.
01:05:41
Speaker
So that's not, this is not as unusual as it sounds.
01:05:48
Speaker
All right, let's move on to the next news.
01:05:50
Speaker
So we're running out of time.
01:05:53
Speaker
We got all the time in the world, man.
01:05:55
Speaker
Exactly.
01:05:55
Speaker
Let's do four hours.
01:05:57
Speaker
Can we call Roger Sharp on?
01:06:01
Speaker
We want to build some time.
01:06:03
Speaker
I mean, anytime you guys do a red episode with Roger Sharp, I am like on the edge of my seat.
01:06:06
Speaker
This is not sarcasm right here.
01:06:07
Speaker
I love listening to him.
01:06:09
Speaker
I have to buck two weeks out of my time.
01:06:12
Speaker
We need to have him back on.
01:06:14
Speaker
All right.
01:06:15
Speaker
So Pedretti.
01:06:16
Speaker
So we talked about this.
01:06:17
Speaker
Carrie, you were down at TPF.
01:06:20
Speaker
Were you hearing rumblings like we were that Funhouse is their first remake they're going to come out with?
01:06:27
Speaker
if you guys don't already know this, I am under NDA with Pedretti.
01:06:31
Speaker
Oh, so we're not going to ask you this question.
01:06:33
Speaker
I can't really give you a lot of commentary on this.
01:06:36
Speaker
Apparently we did not know that.
01:06:38
Speaker
Yeah, I put it out in the video.
01:06:40
Speaker
I don't blame you for not watching all my stuff, but I put it out in the video basically because I knew that people were going to hopefully see video content from me speculating on what their remakes are going to be and stuff like that.
01:06:49
Speaker
So I went ahead and just put it out there.
01:06:51
Speaker
Look, I'm in
01:06:52
Speaker
I'm under NDA.
01:06:53
Speaker
I know what games are doing, what the next game is, all that stuff and junk like that.
01:06:56
Speaker
I'm supposed to be creating content in the future in regards to these games.
01:07:02
Speaker
As far as like what all is going to be involved in that and all that stuff and junk, I don't know at this point.
01:07:08
Speaker
And there's a bunch of other stuff that's kind of going on behind the scenes that I can't like say out here and stuff.
01:07:13
Speaker
But yes, I did hear the rumblings and the alleged leaks and stuff like that.
01:07:19
Speaker
The only thing I'm going to comment on when it comes to that is that
01:07:22
Speaker
The information that was divulged to me months ago, not all of the information or a lot of information that was leaked, quote, doesn't match with what I was told.
01:07:35
Speaker
Okay.
01:07:36
Speaker
So things could have changed.
01:07:38
Speaker
I don't know.
01:07:39
Speaker
I mean, it's one of those things that they don't tell me everything, but it's one of those where I'm like, oh, interesting.
01:07:43
Speaker
That's not what I was told.
01:07:44
Speaker
This isn't your first NDA either.
01:07:46
Speaker
So blink twice if this is like Deep Root again.
01:07:49
Speaker
No, this is far from it so far.
01:07:51
Speaker
I mean...
01:07:53
Speaker
But as far as like speculating and stuff like that, I, I, sorry, I can't really contribute.
01:07:56
Speaker
Okay.
01:07:57
Speaker
I have no worries.
01:07:57
Speaker
Okay.
01:07:58
Speaker
All right.
01:07:59
Speaker
Let's talk a stern pinball, possibly going public or being sold.
01:08:04
Speaker
It doesn't shock me if this is true.
01:08:06
Speaker
It does.
01:08:07
Speaker
There's a lot of moves.
01:08:08
Speaker
Yeah.
01:08:09
Speaker
It doesn't shock me.
01:08:10
Speaker
The it's a double-edged sword, right?
01:08:14
Speaker
Is the challenge with going public though is,
01:08:19
Speaker
If you go public, then you are beholden to investors.
01:08:24
Speaker
And investors typically don't have long-term goals in a company in mind.
01:08:31
Speaker
They typically have short-term gains.
01:08:33
Speaker
What are you doing for me right now?
01:08:37
Speaker
We know the story of Williams and how Williams was shut down.
01:08:42
Speaker
Not because it was losing money.
01:08:44
Speaker
It just wasn't making as much money
01:08:48
Speaker
as their slot machine arm.
01:08:50
Speaker
So they made the business decision to maximize what their biggest revenue stream was.
01:08:58
Speaker
Now, will that be challenging if Stern gets bought into other companies and they become an arm of something?
01:09:08
Speaker
If they are an entity unto themselves, then they will be, okay, so we make pinballs, that's what we do.
01:09:15
Speaker
You can also have issues with the stock value.
01:09:19
Speaker
Is it good or bad?
01:09:22
Speaker
I would say it's a predictable next phase as Gary is basically a legacy member now of
Consequences of Stern Going Public
01:09:31
Speaker
his own company.
01:09:31
Speaker
It makes me concerned if you...
01:09:38
Speaker
If you have a lot of people who are making the decisions like shareholders and stockholders, you know, all that kind of stuff versus just a very motivated individual who wants to keep pinball alive.
01:09:52
Speaker
I would argue, I don't think that Stern would have made it in the two thousands if they were a public company.
01:10:03
Speaker
I think at some point they would have cut their losses and shut down.
01:10:07
Speaker
Yeah.
Market Cooling and Business Models
01:10:08
Speaker
That is my concern right now.
01:10:10
Speaker
Pinball is hot.
01:10:12
Speaker
It's cooled down a little bit after the, uh, after, uh, the pandemic and people are getting out more and traveling more and they don't have $10,000 to spend on a machine they're putting in their house.
01:10:26
Speaker
But I'm just always cautious when it's moving to a different way of doing business because that is definitely going into the unknown.
01:10:38
Speaker
What are your thoughts, concerns, hopes?
Stern's Leadership and Strategy Concerns
01:10:42
Speaker
So, I mean, I think the, a large amount of pinball enthusiasts, I mean, they look at Stern as obviously the Titan of the industry and they have gotten that way through all the things that they've done in the past and what they plan to do in the future.
01:10:59
Speaker
When it comes to even insider connected, they didn't merely just, you know, on a whim go, Hey, let's just do this for some achievements.
01:11:05
Speaker
No, there's definitely plans that are in the making for, you know,
01:11:10
Speaker
whether it be DLC, it's always rumored and stuff like that.
01:11:13
Speaker
But it's like, it's like when people look at Stern, they always have that mindset of like, Oh, they're just greed.
01:11:18
Speaker
It's always after the bottom dollar.
01:11:20
Speaker
It's all that matters.
01:11:21
Speaker
Like a for a for profit company.
01:11:23
Speaker
What are the odds of that?
Impact of Going Public on Business Model
01:11:25
Speaker
It's like, can you, and do you feel like if they did go public, would,
01:11:31
Speaker
I guess the amount of greed or speculated greed rather be even worse though.
01:11:36
Speaker
Yes.
01:11:37
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:38
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:38
Speaker
A hundred percent.
01:11:39
Speaker
So if you went, if you want public, what would happen is anytime you get like a code, you, now this is, I, I, I've seen the future.
Stern's Value Delivery Strategy
01:11:53
Speaker
What's going to happen is, okay, you go, you go to an arcade and you play the 1.0 code.
01:12:01
Speaker
or you can buy personally the DLC option to play the 1.1 code.
01:12:09
Speaker
or the 1.2 code.
01:12:11
Speaker
And when you scan your Insider Connected, it's going to activate your unlocked rule set.
01:12:19
Speaker
It's the same thing as video games, right?
01:12:22
Speaker
I can see that happening.
01:12:23
Speaker
And I can see that people may talk about Stern about being all about the money.
01:12:29
Speaker
However, I will argue they are still by far the most over-delivering
01:12:37
Speaker
uh, lowest cost option for the best games out there.
01:12:41
Speaker
Yeah.
01:12:43
Speaker
I, Godzilla, Godzilla is the best game on the market right now.
01:12:49
Speaker
I think that's what you can still in the market.
01:12:51
Speaker
What was that?
01:12:52
Speaker
I think that's what's disrupting the market.
01:12:54
Speaker
Yeah.
01:12:54
Speaker
When, when everyone's doing something right now,
01:12:56
Speaker
You're like, why would I buy an ABBA for $10,000 or $11,000?
01:12:59
Speaker
I have a Godzilla premium.
01:13:02
Speaker
It's the new gold standard.
01:13:03
Speaker
So when you say, is Stern about the money?
01:13:08
Speaker
Sure.
01:13:08
Speaker
But Stern is also the, I don't want this to sound dismissive, but they're in Walmart business.
Rising Pinball Prices Post-COVID
01:13:16
Speaker
They make their money through volume.
01:13:18
Speaker
They don't make it off two games.
01:13:20
Speaker
They make it off thousands of games.
01:13:24
Speaker
Or they don't have to sell in volume by increasing the price.
01:13:28
Speaker
Well, and that's, that's definitely, well, there are other companies who basically have that business model, right?
01:13:34
Speaker
That's kind of how they do their toppers and accessories.
01:13:37
Speaker
Sure.
01:13:38
Speaker
And I have certainly talked about their toppers, but the toppers are, they're candy.
01:13:41
Speaker
They are not necessary to the game.
01:13:45
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:46
Speaker
I, it makes sense when I heard this, it makes sense looking at, I mean, I, I don't want it.
01:13:53
Speaker
I I'll say it makes me sad.
01:13:55
Speaker
I think it makes me sad.
01:13:56
Speaker
That's, that's the take home.
01:13:57
Speaker
I think it's a pivot.
01:13:59
Speaker
Yeah.
01:14:00
Speaker
I think looking at how pricing has changed over the last four years, you can say it's all COVID, but an LA price going from 9,500 to $13,000.
Strategic Changes and Industry Impact
01:14:07
Speaker
That's not all wood.
01:14:08
Speaker
And yeah,
01:14:13
Speaker
I mean, I feel like there's been a lot of positioning bringing in Seth Davis, who was at Disney, who helped launch some of these like online streaming for Disney and stuff like that.
01:14:25
Speaker
He knows big business.
01:14:28
Speaker
Gary stepping down and being more of a legacy figure.
01:14:31
Speaker
There's just a lot of things that make sense now.
01:14:35
Speaker
The testing of the waters of a bond 60th and seeing how much money they could actually get out of a limited edition like that.
01:14:42
Speaker
and seeing what the l1 name actually can can command um i i feel like granted like stern is obviously in unknown waters right like they're always pushing forward into areas that other companies aren't doing because they're they're the big boat in the water and so they are they are the giant cruise ship when everyone else is driving tugboats really that like they
01:15:07
Speaker
And so a lot of this can be viewed as just exploration and research and development.
01:15:13
Speaker
But I do looking at now that someone's saying that this being sold publicly or having more of a public whatever to it,
01:15:23
Speaker
It makes a little more sense.
01:15:24
Speaker
We'll see what happens over the next year or two if this is the case.
Stern's Future and Family Legacy
01:15:29
Speaker
And maybe we won't.
01:15:31
Speaker
I don't know.
01:15:32
Speaker
That's the thing.
01:15:32
Speaker
We don't really have a lot of information to go on with this.
01:15:34
Speaker
We don't.
01:15:35
Speaker
However, would it surprise you?
01:15:36
Speaker
I guess that's the real question.
01:15:38
Speaker
It wouldn't surprise me because, Gary, look at it this way, too.
01:15:42
Speaker
As far as I know, I don't think any of Gary's kids are really involved with Stern Pinball.
01:15:48
Speaker
And there's no like legacy, right?
01:15:50
Speaker
Like, I guess that'd be a driving factor, like a family business.
01:15:52
Speaker
Like obviously you want to give it to your kids and if the kids love it, then they want to move it on.
01:15:56
Speaker
But if you have no one in your family, if you're the end of the line, yeah.
01:16:00
Speaker
Yeah.
01:16:00
Speaker
Why, why not cash out and get as much money as you can?
01:16:03
Speaker
There's a reason why artists are selling their catalogs.
01:16:08
Speaker
Okay.
01:16:09
Speaker
Bruce Springsteen stole, sold his catalog.
01:16:12
Speaker
Kiss just sold theirs too.
01:16:13
Speaker
Kiss just sold their catalog.
01:16:14
Speaker
Rush sold their catalog.
01:16:16
Speaker
You know, Twisted Sisters sold their cattle.
01:16:18
Speaker
Like, they're all doing it because they're like, okay, I'm done with this.
01:16:23
Speaker
Let's move on.
01:16:24
Speaker
Yep.
01:16:26
Speaker
So.
Technical Issues in Interviews
01:16:28
Speaker
Alrighty, let's talk really briefly about, we did do an interview with American Pinball.
01:16:34
Speaker
I just want to say, we heard you.
01:16:37
Speaker
We heard that...
01:16:38
Speaker
that you couldn't hear David and Steven.
01:16:43
Speaker
I do apologize.
01:16:45
Speaker
If you watch the YouTube video, I know Carrie watched it before we started recording, but they were in a conference room and they were kind of far away from the computer.
01:16:53
Speaker
And the problem is when you're in that situation too, I can raise their levels, but then you get background ambient noises and stuff that become worse.
01:17:03
Speaker
And so it becomes a game of like,
01:17:05
Speaker
especially if it happens while they're talking, uh, it becomes, I don't know.
01:17:09
Speaker
I just, I released, I released it cause I didn't know what to do.
01:17:13
Speaker
There was only so much we could do.
01:17:14
Speaker
And to be fair, there were my, my Mike has been out of date.
01:17:19
Speaker
And so I ordered the same Mike Josh does.
01:17:21
Speaker
So now,
01:17:22
Speaker
He and I are recording on the same mic.
01:17:25
Speaker
So we, we should at least have the same Mike carry has.
01:17:27
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:28
Speaker
You all have the same triple mic, triple mic, triple mic.
01:17:31
Speaker
That's why we sound amazing right now.
01:17:34
Speaker
Okay.
01:17:35
Speaker
We should start singing.
01:17:36
Speaker
Come on.
01:17:36
Speaker
Take a chance.
01:17:36
Speaker
Take a chance.
01:17:37
Speaker
I do.
01:17:37
Speaker
I do not sing.
01:17:40
Speaker
Wow.
01:17:40
Speaker
I'm not the karaoke person.
01:17:42
Speaker
Okay.
01:17:43
Speaker
But yeah.
01:17:43
Speaker
Um,
01:17:44
Speaker
It was an interesting interview.
01:17:46
Speaker
It's still good to talk to them, right?
01:17:48
Speaker
It's good to get their point of view.
American Pinball Rumors and Changes
01:17:50
Speaker
And that's the whole point of us trying to get interviews with people is because they get to tell their side of the story and their perspective as opposed to podcasters.
01:17:58
Speaker
We do a lot of speculation.
01:18:00
Speaker
Well, and the weird part too, someone asked us about this.
01:18:02
Speaker
Like, so was someone trying to kill David fix?
01:18:05
Speaker
Like, were they trying to?
01:18:06
Speaker
What was going on there?
01:18:07
Speaker
I'm like, I don't know.
01:18:08
Speaker
Just listen to the interview.
01:18:09
Speaker
Do you remember that, Scott?
01:18:11
Speaker
Okay.
01:18:12
Speaker
I think it was like the rumors that he had died.
01:18:15
Speaker
I don't think it's to kill them.
01:18:16
Speaker
It was, I don't know.
01:18:19
Speaker
It was different.
01:18:20
Speaker
It sounded a little bizarre, but I think it was just rumors that he was no longer among us.
01:18:26
Speaker
But if you go to American-pinball.com, we're on the front page.
01:18:30
Speaker
So you just go down to the bottom.
01:18:32
Speaker
Yeah.
01:18:33
Speaker
Check out our interview there.
01:18:37
Speaker
Kerry's like, I gotta verify this.
01:18:40
Speaker
I don't believe it.
01:18:42
Speaker
We are right there.
01:18:44
Speaker
I'll be down next to Chad and Teddy get lit.
01:18:49
Speaker
What is, Oh my God.
01:18:51
Speaker
Did y'all not see this?
01:18:54
Speaker
No, we could talk about this if you want to.
01:18:57
Speaker
I thought the freaking launch for ABBA was cringe.
01:19:01
Speaker
No, this is the cringe.
01:19:05
Speaker
The look.
01:19:05
Speaker
Clure.
01:19:06
Speaker
I can't even pronounce it.
01:19:09
Speaker
Crème de la cringe.
01:19:10
Speaker
That's what I want to say.
01:19:11
Speaker
Right.
01:19:11
Speaker
This is so bad where I'm just like, Oh no, guys.
01:19:16
Speaker
Oh, wow.
01:19:17
Speaker
No.
01:19:17
Speaker
I'm going to have to.
01:19:19
Speaker
This is a three-hour live stream.
01:19:21
Speaker
Schedule that in.
Listener Appreciation and Industry Speculation
01:19:23
Speaker
I'm telling you, it is.
01:19:24
Speaker
Three hours.
01:19:25
Speaker
Yeah, you're going to have to schedule that in.
01:19:27
Speaker
I couldn't watch it in its entirety.
01:19:29
Speaker
I had to, like, skip around.
01:19:30
Speaker
But every time I skipped to another portion, I was like, just, no, no, I can't watch.
01:19:34
Speaker
I can't look directly at it.
01:19:35
Speaker
It's like an eclipse.
01:19:37
Speaker
It's not three hours.
01:19:38
Speaker
It is four hours.
01:19:39
Speaker
It's three hours and 53 minutes.
01:19:41
Speaker
Holy crap.
01:19:41
Speaker
That is impressive.
01:19:45
Speaker
Wow.
01:19:45
Speaker
Wow.
01:19:48
Speaker
Stamina, baby.
01:19:49
Speaker
We'll have to check that out later.
01:19:52
Speaker
Hey, it's got, yeah, okay, I'm not going to go into this.
01:19:56
Speaker
Let's stay on topic.
01:19:57
Speaker
Stay on topic.
01:19:58
Speaker
Okay.
01:19:59
Speaker
Stay on topic.
01:20:00
Speaker
Okay.
01:20:00
Speaker
But yeah, we do appreciate you guys listening.
01:20:02
Speaker
It is what it is.
01:20:05
Speaker
We just interview.
Dennis Nordman's Career Moves
01:20:07
Speaker
You know what?
01:20:07
Speaker
We do our best.
01:20:09
Speaker
Yeah.
01:20:09
Speaker
Yes.
01:20:10
Speaker
But the one thing that kind of frustrated me though, because it's like we interviewed these guys two weeks ago and then you hear that Dennis Norman's no longer American pinball, but if they do decide to make the game he was working on, he'll come back as a consultant.
01:20:23
Speaker
And now McQuaid's up next.
01:20:24
Speaker
So Ryan McQuaid won American dream with Sonic the Hedgehog,
Cuphead Adaptation Speculation
01:20:29
Speaker
right?
01:20:29
Speaker
But American pinball couldn't get Sonic the Hedgehog because another company had already snatched it up.
01:20:34
Speaker
And so the rumor is he's on cuphead.
01:20:37
Speaker
So if you've never played cuphead, it's,
01:20:39
Speaker
a Microsoft, it's like a tandem game.
01:20:42
Speaker
There was a indie developer that made this game.
01:20:44
Speaker
It's a beautiful game in the art style of like 1930s.
01:20:48
Speaker
rubber animations, whatever they call it.
01:20:50
Speaker
And the game is brutal.
01:20:51
Speaker
Like if this, if Ryan McQuaid doesn't kick you in the teeth with this pinball machine, I don't know if it does justice for Cuphead.
01:20:58
Speaker
Like that's the thing.
01:21:00
Speaker
The demographic for Cuphead is going to be relatively small.
01:21:04
Speaker
Okay.
01:21:04
Speaker
I mean, okay.
01:21:05
Speaker
The awareness I own the awareness of that too.
01:21:09
Speaker
Yeah.
01:21:09
Speaker
Cause, but look, coming from somebody who I own Cuphead, I have played it a lot in the past and it's one of those games where it is horrible.
01:21:17
Speaker
hard.
01:21:18
Speaker
Yes.
01:21:19
Speaker
This game is like, it's like the artistry and what they, the way they went about creating it is far none.
01:21:25
Speaker
Amazing.
01:21:26
Speaker
I love the old school retro aesthetics to this game, but it is one of those games where you are going to want to just break your damn controller because of frustration of how difficult some of these boss fights are.
01:21:38
Speaker
And that's essentially what a lot of the game is.
01:21:39
Speaker
You got these little levels here and there spread throughout, but it comes down to beating these bosses.
01:21:45
Speaker
Yeah.
01:21:45
Speaker
that have different basically stages to them difficulty wise.
01:21:49
Speaker
And there's just things that are going around everywhere.
01:21:51
Speaker
You're constantly having to jump, duck, dodge, shoot your finger bullets at them and everything.
01:21:56
Speaker
It's not an easy game at all.
01:21:59
Speaker
So I'm kind of curious of how they're going to be able to implement that theme into pinball.
Classic Games and Nostalgia
01:22:03
Speaker
Well, and I don't know.
01:22:04
Speaker
Have you watched the Netflix series?
01:22:05
Speaker
Cause they've got three seasons.
01:22:07
Speaker
I tried.
01:22:08
Speaker
I think I watched a few episodes and I was like, yeah, it wasn't enough to keep me going.
01:22:13
Speaker
The funny part is my family loves it.
01:22:15
Speaker
So we've watched all the seasons.
01:22:17
Speaker
And if you go that route, maybe you don't go so brutal.
01:22:20
Speaker
I don't know.
01:22:21
Speaker
But I agree with you, Carrie.
01:22:21
Speaker
Like this game, if you've never played Cuphead, it's what?
01:22:24
Speaker
15 bucks to download, if that?
01:22:26
Speaker
It's on the Switch.
01:22:27
Speaker
It's on Xbox.
01:22:27
Speaker
It says $20 for Switch, but yeah.
01:22:31
Speaker
Download it.
01:22:32
Speaker
Give it a try.
01:22:34
Speaker
It will kick your teeth.
01:22:35
Speaker
It's a couch co-op, so if you've got a buddy at the house, then y'all can play together.
01:22:38
Speaker
It makes it a little even funnier, but it is not an easy game.
01:22:42
Speaker
Wow.
01:22:43
Speaker
Okay, I'll try it.
01:22:44
Speaker
I'll try it and let you know.
01:22:45
Speaker
I haven't tried it yet.
01:22:47
Speaker
To give you an idea of what the game is like, it's got two different styles.
01:22:50
Speaker
The first style is side-scrolling shooter.
01:22:53
Speaker
If you remember the old Contras.
01:22:55
Speaker
I'm trying to think what else.
01:22:58
Speaker
Actually, do you know what my favorite side-scrolling game is?
01:23:02
Speaker
It's actually like an old
Dennis Nordman's Reliability Discussion
01:23:03
Speaker
NES game.
01:23:03
Speaker
It's called life force.
01:23:07
Speaker
It's like the, it's, it's basically contra, but with ships like flying ships and it's the same type of, you can do the same code.
01:23:15
Speaker
You can do the same code and get 30 guys.
01:23:17
Speaker
Like it's awesome.
01:23:18
Speaker
They have a game called salamander.
01:23:20
Speaker
That's actually a, it's,
01:23:22
Speaker
kind of ported from and and changed but it's if you're ever looking for an nes game life force is a fun game but okay you guys are bearing the lead a little bit on this okay nordman is out at ap okay yeah here's my question does nordman ever stay at a job
01:23:45
Speaker
Not when he foresees bad things coming.
01:23:47
Speaker
Okay.
01:23:47
Speaker
So, so that's kind of, okay.
01:23:49
Speaker
However, he also left stern.
01:23:53
Speaker
He did, uh, you know, he did Elvira at stern.
01:23:56
Speaker
So did he though?
01:23:58
Speaker
My understanding is most of that, most of what he had drawn in there was kind of torn out.
01:24:02
Speaker
Okay.
01:24:02
Speaker
Well, maybe.
01:24:03
Speaker
Okay.
01:24:03
Speaker
All right.
01:24:05
Speaker
The question I have is like, is at some point you have to ask,
01:24:11
Speaker
Is it all the companies that he's working for?
01:24:13
Speaker
Is he just not making good choices or is he just an unreliable designer that like, there are so many things he's picking bad projects, right?
01:24:27
Speaker
We know that he went with highway and then got out of highway before alien and then went to deep root and we got out there and then was with American pinball and got out there.
01:24:38
Speaker
There is a, there's a reason.
01:24:40
Speaker
There's a reason Dennis Creasel named him the Canary in the Coal Mine.
01:24:43
Speaker
Okay, but the Canary in the Coal Mine still should probably have produced a game.
01:24:49
Speaker
Like, I just
Design Credits and Focus Areas
01:24:50
Speaker
released... He did.
01:24:50
Speaker
He glocked his tank for us.
01:24:53
Speaker
This is something that not a lot of people know about this, and it's kind of weird, is that he didn't really design that game.
01:25:00
Speaker
Really?
01:25:00
Speaker
Yeah, he did a little bit of it, but most of that was with Reno.
01:25:06
Speaker
If you look on the credits for it.
01:25:10
Speaker
Sorry, I forgot his first name.
01:25:12
Speaker
I mean, I've got him in my phone and everything.
01:25:15
Speaker
Janet Reno?
01:25:17
Speaker
Who?
01:25:18
Speaker
Janet Reno?
01:25:18
Speaker
I'm sorry.
01:25:19
Speaker
She was the attorney general in the 90s.
01:25:22
Speaker
No, no, no, no.
01:25:23
Speaker
If you look on the credits of the game, it was, oh my goodness.
01:25:27
Speaker
If you listen to this, I feel so bad.
01:25:29
Speaker
I don't remember his name.
01:25:30
Speaker
But no, Norman did a good amount of work on it, but a lot of that was not his design.
01:25:39
Speaker
And that's what cracked me up is that I'm just like, wow.
01:25:42
Speaker
I mean, like basically Norman's getting all the credit for this and everything.
01:25:45
Speaker
I mean, he definitely helped out with the aesthetics of the cabinet.
01:25:48
Speaker
He really wanted a cabinet that turned into a tank.
01:25:52
Speaker
And I think that's one of the reasons also when someone asked him, I forgot who I was talking to about this.
01:25:55
Speaker
They were asking, what's your favorite thing about?
01:25:58
Speaker
Galactic Tank Force, and he commented the cabinet.
01:26:00
Speaker
That was his favorite portion of Galactic Tank Force, was the cabinet.
01:26:04
Speaker
Probably because that's what the main thing that he implemented.
01:26:07
Speaker
But as far as design goes, he didn't do much of that.
01:26:10
Speaker
I'm going to have to look up his damn name.
01:26:11
Speaker
This is going to drive me up the wall.
01:26:14
Speaker
Well, it's not on Pinside, because I'm looking at Pinside, and they have him as sole designer.
01:26:19
Speaker
Paul Reno.
01:26:20
Speaker
Paul Reno.
01:26:21
Speaker
Okay.
01:26:23
Speaker
I totally forgot he worked... He did the design for...
01:26:27
Speaker
Lexi Lightspeed with Multimorphic.
Review of Nordman's Design History
01:26:30
Speaker
Okay, there is a lot of incomplete grades in his work since his William days.
01:26:39
Speaker
Dude, that's weird.
01:26:41
Speaker
I totally spaced that.
01:26:43
Speaker
Because I want to say, do you even look on the apron where they list off all the designers and everything and who's involved in the game, if you could find a picture of it somewhere.
01:26:52
Speaker
But they list them on there.
01:26:54
Speaker
Wasn't...
01:26:56
Speaker
Wasn't this his idea, though?
01:26:57
Speaker
Like the whole galactic tank force and the ice cream.
01:27:01
Speaker
Wasn't this an idea he wanted to do from the William days?
01:27:04
Speaker
Norman, mainly the tank portion of it.
01:27:07
Speaker
But as far as the layout, I don't think the layout.
01:27:10
Speaker
Hmm.
01:27:12
Speaker
So here's my thought, because my understanding was that Norman really pushed this concept of tanks and ice cream, right?
01:27:18
Speaker
Didn't you guys have him on?
01:27:21
Speaker
No, we didn't have him on.
01:27:23
Speaker
Maybe we need to have him on.
01:27:24
Speaker
No, I thought he was part of it, because his power went out or something like that.
01:27:27
Speaker
I thought he was on with you guys during an interview, or is that somebody else that I'm thinking of?
01:27:32
Speaker
I don't think.
01:27:33
Speaker
Yeah, I think he had David Fix, Norman, and I thought you had Paul on there, but his power went out.
01:27:39
Speaker
We had Jack Hager and Fix.
01:27:42
Speaker
Because I remember messaging him like, man, I really wish he would have been able to join in on the thing with the Galactic Tank Force.
01:27:47
Speaker
And he said something about his electricity went out, so he was unable to.
01:27:50
Speaker
Maybe.
01:27:52
Speaker
It's been a while.
01:27:53
Speaker
Terrible.
01:27:53
Speaker
By the way, so if you listen to us regularly, we're going up the rails quite a bit here, guys.
01:28:01
Speaker
If you remember our tenured past with our interviews, please write in and let us know if we had.
01:28:08
Speaker
I swear we never had Dennis.
01:28:09
Speaker
I don't.
01:28:09
Speaker
I don't.
01:28:10
Speaker
I know that we've had a son.
01:28:12
Speaker
It does just make me wonder.
01:28:15
Speaker
And I hope I'm not speaking outside.
01:28:17
Speaker
I can only look at it from an outside person.
01:28:20
Speaker
But yeah, he has, it might've been triple drain that had him on then that I'm thinking of.
01:28:24
Speaker
Sorry.
01:28:24
Speaker
It wasn't you guys and it was somebody else.
01:28:26
Speaker
Yeah.
01:28:26
Speaker
Oh, so, so they had L went on and Travis's power went out for like 20 minutes and he had to like run to the bowling alley or something.
01:28:34
Speaker
Oh yeah.
01:28:35
Speaker
Where Travis is like walking around looking for signals.
01:28:38
Speaker
Yeah.
01:28:38
Speaker
But yeah, I'm, I'm pretty sure that we have not had Dennis on, but the, yeah, the, it, it does just make me wonder.
01:28:45
Speaker
And again, this is just me looking for as an outside person.
01:28:49
Speaker
There's a lot of,
01:28:50
Speaker
like unfinished games that are in his wake and unfinished employment.
01:28:56
Speaker
It does make me question if I were an employer, would I, would I hire this guy?
01:29:02
Speaker
I, it, it seems like there's a lot of question marks more than product right now.
01:29:08
Speaker
Yeah.
01:29:10
Speaker
I don't know.
01:29:10
Speaker
Just looking at even looking as recent games.
01:29:12
Speaker
So like Elvira is obviously a hit, like there's no ifs, ands or buts about it.
01:29:17
Speaker
But like I said, I don't know how much of other things.
01:29:21
Speaker
My understanding, there was a lot more ramps in it.
01:29:22
Speaker
I don't know.
01:29:24
Speaker
That's something for behind the scenes.
01:29:26
Speaker
Go to Expo.
01:29:27
Speaker
See if you can milk some information on people.
01:29:30
Speaker
I don't know.
01:29:30
Speaker
It was back in August of 2023, whatever podcast he was on.
01:29:34
Speaker
I even said, it sucks you didn't get many words in the latest podcast.
01:29:37
Speaker
And he's like, yeah, I had a huge storm come through and knock out the power.
01:29:40
Speaker
Gotcha.
01:29:41
Speaker
If it wasn't you guys, then like I said, it might have been triple drain.
01:29:43
Speaker
It was back in August, so I could be confused.
01:29:45
Speaker
But I know that he was supposed to be on the podcast talking about it because he is.
01:29:50
Speaker
co-designer, but he did a majority of the lifting on this one.
01:29:53
Speaker
Gotcha.
01:29:54
Speaker
But like looking at his games, he did the Zombie League concept slash game design, but that's a pitch and bat.
01:30:01
Speaker
That's not really straightforward pinball primus, but is that because he did Woe Nelly?
01:30:08
Speaker
And Woe Nelly is not really regarded as a great game.
01:30:11
Speaker
Lexi Lightspeed is probably one of the better multimorphic games.
01:30:16
Speaker
I'm not going to lie there.
01:30:18
Speaker
but even the stern stuff like pirates of the Caribbean was fun.
01:30:21
Speaker
Yeah.
01:30:21
Speaker
And I actually have pirates of the Caribbean.
01:30:24
Speaker
Yeah.
01:30:25
Speaker
But no one remembers.
01:30:26
Speaker
Well, a fortune is an all astounding game.
01:30:29
Speaker
No, I mean, really?
01:30:31
Speaker
I mean, demo man's fun and everyone loves whitewater.
01:30:34
Speaker
And obviously the Elvira is everyone wants all three of them in their lineup.
01:30:38
Speaker
I just, I don't know.
01:30:39
Speaker
You can skip the party monsters.
01:30:40
Speaker
Yeah.
01:30:41
Speaker
Party Zone, Doctor Dude, Blackwater, White Hunter is a fun game.
01:30:46
Speaker
I just don't know.
01:30:46
Speaker
You're going back.
01:30:48
Speaker
This is my J-pop argument.
01:30:51
Speaker
You're going way back.
01:30:53
Speaker
I guess my point being is I think the thing is the facades come off.
01:30:59
Speaker
We're looking at these designers from the 90s and we held them up on such a pedestal.
01:31:04
Speaker
But I'm...
01:31:05
Speaker
I'm feeling pinball has progressed since the last 30 years.
Viability of Old Pinball Concepts
01:31:08
Speaker
And we're realizing more and more that the games that are coming out from these designers, maybe not necessarily the games that we want.
01:31:16
Speaker
And I'm not saying like, is like, I guess my point being was, okay, sorry, I'm rewinding this.
01:31:20
Speaker
Sorry.
01:31:21
Speaker
Sorry.
01:31:21
Speaker
It took 10 minutes to get to this point.
01:31:23
Speaker
So galactic tank force was a concept that was supposedly that was,
01:31:27
Speaker
was explored back in the day, but it was never considered viable
Challenges with Passion Projects
01:31:30
Speaker
for pinball.
01:31:30
Speaker
So they never went forward with it.
01:31:32
Speaker
So American hires Dennis Norman and he pushes this concept, right?
01:31:37
Speaker
And it didn't do, I don't know.
01:31:40
Speaker
I don't know if they consider it a hit or whatnot.
01:31:41
Speaker
Sorry, it didn't sell.
01:31:42
Speaker
But it didn't sell as many numbers as other pinball machines, right?
01:31:45
Speaker
In the modern age.
01:31:47
Speaker
rewind back to american pinball's history with oktoberfest that was a joe balser like he was trying to get it done way back in the day back in the 90s passion project going on to do this passion project america went for it and it didn't sell i would say that's probably the most underperforming american pinball game pre shift of the company right
01:32:12
Speaker
And so I think people are starting to understand that these concepts that these designers have from years ago may not be the way to go.
01:32:22
Speaker
Maybe that's just me.
01:32:23
Speaker
Pinball is evolving.
Evolution of Pinball with Screen Content
01:32:24
Speaker
I mean, and it's arguably in a way de-evolving when it comes to more assets being on a screen for us to look at versus what they can put underneath the glass.
01:32:32
Speaker
Yeah.
01:32:34
Speaker
There's certainly a, there's an expectation of content that,
01:32:40
Speaker
that is necessary.
01:32:41
Speaker
And I, I don't know exactly what level that is because I would be curious to see what happens if, and when Lord of the Rings is vaulted, because if you have to pay for all the assets of that to do, you know, more, uh, I guess even just more video stuff, I don't know if you could do it at, at a price point.
01:33:04
Speaker
So that, so that's the, I got thinking about this the other day.
01:33:07
Speaker
I want you guys to answer this question, and this is totally hypothetical.
01:33:11
Speaker
If, let's say Stern comes out tomorrow, and they say, hey, we're releasing John Wick by John Gorg, but we've decided that we're going back to DMDs, but because we're saving money on assets, because a lot of the assets is now put into video screens, we're able to drop
01:33:33
Speaker
1500 bucks off the price, all models.
01:33:36
Speaker
Would you be happy?
Audio's Role in Pinball Immersion
01:33:38
Speaker
Or would you be ticked off?
01:33:40
Speaker
No, I think it depends on the theme.
01:33:42
Speaker
It's going back in time.
01:33:44
Speaker
And that's the problem.
01:33:45
Speaker
If you want, okay.
01:33:46
Speaker
Pulp fiction.
01:33:48
Speaker
Yes.
01:33:48
Speaker
Like that, that you want that to feel like a seventies game.
01:33:53
Speaker
If you release a DMD now, it is immediately dated.
01:33:58
Speaker
And to be blunt, screens aren't that expensive now.
01:34:03
Speaker
Like the screen is actually – But the assets that they pay for those screens, that's what I'm trying to get to.
01:34:07
Speaker
You could do – okay.
01:34:09
Speaker
So how did Deadpool do it?
01:34:13
Speaker
How did Deadpool get around that?
01:34:14
Speaker
They drew it.
01:34:15
Speaker
They drew it.
01:34:16
Speaker
So they just – They didn't use the movie.
01:34:18
Speaker
They used a comic book version of it.
01:34:19
Speaker
Right.
01:34:19
Speaker
They animated it.
01:34:20
Speaker
And so how you – Animated, yeah.
01:34:22
Speaker
how you'd get around it, it would be the same thing for like, Hey, we're doing John wick, but we're doing a cartoon version of him.
01:34:30
Speaker
Now I don't think that's working out for venom.
01:34:33
Speaker
Well, okay.
01:34:34
Speaker
Not, but venom has other issues, right?
01:34:37
Speaker
That venom has other issues is that it's well, okay.
01:34:42
Speaker
It's basically, and I've said this before, it's a P three game.
01:34:46
Speaker
The entire game is the back third play field.
01:34:49
Speaker
And it's just, it's not, it's not much of a game compared to what you're used to.
01:34:56
Speaker
And the, so it didn't work for Venom.
01:34:59
Speaker
It did work for Deadpool though, because Deadpool is a full game, right?
01:35:04
Speaker
Now, Lord of the Rings, if they released- But they still got Nolan North who does the voice.
01:35:09
Speaker
Okay.
01:35:09
Speaker
But, okay, but it's not Randall Reynolds.
01:35:12
Speaker
Not the same thing.
01:35:14
Speaker
Like people, when the people are a great voice actor though, I get it.
01:35:17
Speaker
I get it.
01:35:18
Speaker
But when people think that whole, they think of Ryan Reynolds.
01:35:20
Speaker
Okay.
01:35:21
Speaker
The, uh, if they did, um, Avengers like Avengers and infinity quest, they did, they did animated characters.
01:35:30
Speaker
They did not get a Bruce Banner, you know, and they didn't get Mark Ruffalo and they didn't get Chris Evans.
01:35:35
Speaker
They didn't do all that kind of stuff.
01:35:37
Speaker
If they did the same thing for Lord of the Rings and said, yes,
01:35:40
Speaker
We are doing a vault edition of Lord of the Rings.
01:35:42
Speaker
It's going to be the same call outs because those call outs are awesome.
01:35:46
Speaker
But we will do like an animated version of the DMD.
01:35:50
Speaker
I would be 100% fine with that.
01:35:52
Speaker
I don't want to spend $5,000 more just to get movie assets in there because I can buy The Hobbit.
01:35:59
Speaker
I think what kind of
01:36:00
Speaker
What gets for me, I enjoy audio content more than I do the video because the audio is going simultaneous while you're playing a game.
01:36:12
Speaker
And I can quote a movie line.
01:36:14
Speaker
And immediately, if you know the movie, you're going to picture that portion of the movie in your head while you're playing.
01:36:21
Speaker
If I hold up a card and said, multi-pass, you know what movie I'm talking about.
01:36:25
Speaker
You know what part of the movie it is.
01:36:27
Speaker
It's all visualized in your head kind of thing.
01:36:29
Speaker
It's the same thing when I believe, for me, I look at audio as more important than video because I'm getting that while I'm playing and it doesn't really get as old.
01:36:42
Speaker
In a home environment, you are right.
01:36:46
Speaker
In an arcade or bar environment, you're wrong because usually they have the volume turned down so low that you have a hard time hearing it.
01:36:57
Speaker
Yeah, but still, that's why music pins do so well at home.
01:37:03
Speaker
But that's the case in point though.
01:37:04
Speaker
Like the sound was made for the game.
01:37:06
Speaker
Like it doesn't matter if you're playing in a bar or if you're playing it.
01:37:09
Speaker
Okay.
01:37:10
Speaker
I totally agree with you.
01:37:11
Speaker
I totally agree.
01:37:12
Speaker
The sound is the thing that transforms a game into something more than what you expect.
01:37:20
Speaker
Yeah.
01:37:22
Speaker
And which is why when they did Star Wars,
01:37:25
Speaker
They paid a butt ton of money so they could get the John Williams music because that is Star Wars.
01:37:33
Speaker
Have you ever watched Star Wars without like the soundtrack?
01:37:38
Speaker
It looks, it's horrible.
01:37:40
Speaker
It's worse than like comical.
01:37:41
Speaker
Yeah.
01:37:42
Speaker
No, it's worse than flash Gordon.
01:37:44
Speaker
Like without the queen background music.
01:37:47
Speaker
Hmm.
01:37:49
Speaker
But it's the same thing with like Jurassic Park, you know?
01:37:51
Speaker
Yeah.
01:37:51
Speaker
They didn't have the movie assets, but they at least gave us the score of the movie, which is iconic.
01:37:57
Speaker
Absolutely.
01:37:57
Speaker
That's like my, immediately my daughter knew the movie when she heard that score, she's like Jurassic Park.
01:38:02
Speaker
She knows what it is due to audio alone.
01:38:05
Speaker
And then, and then you look into the game and then you see a T-Rex head moving around and the shaker motor, and you recognize certain things from that particular theme.
01:38:13
Speaker
That's what really draws people in is that it's not just audio alone.
01:38:17
Speaker
It's a combination of,
01:38:19
Speaker
to get all of those in there.
01:38:20
Speaker
But I'm thinking for me, it's like initially when you're first playing a game, you're going to be watching those assets.
01:38:25
Speaker
But like you said, home environment, because after a while you're like, I've seen the video before, skip through it.
01:38:29
Speaker
Let me get back to playing again.
01:38:30
Speaker
So initially, first experience in the game.
01:38:32
Speaker
I double flip all the time.
01:38:33
Speaker
Yeah.
01:38:33
Speaker
Yeah.
01:38:34
Speaker
Trust me, I do it all the time on my game.
01:38:36
Speaker
It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I want to get back to shooting kind of thing.
01:38:38
Speaker
So it's like, so like, yeah, initially when you're first playing it on location, yeah, you're going to be watching those screens because you've never seen it before.
01:38:44
Speaker
But after a while, you're like, yeah, I just want to get back to shooting
Resource Allocation in Game Development
01:38:47
Speaker
again.
01:38:47
Speaker
So I think it's almost like in a way of waste of money going into video assets, not entirely, but if you're buying it for your house, it's like after a while, you're not just like, man, I almost wish that they would have put that money instead of video assets into other mechs or something with inside the game that I can constantly enjoy.
01:39:04
Speaker
Versus something that I'm going to just eventually just give up on watching because I want to get back to enjoying what could be more.
01:39:12
Speaker
But they put it into video essence.
01:39:14
Speaker
Okay, Josh, Carrie and I went full Thunderdome on that one, but we didn't hear your part.
01:39:21
Speaker
I would not be opposed to if we went back to DMD and we shaved some money off these games.
01:39:27
Speaker
I agree wholeheartedly with, I think you're actually not, I think the, I think you're going to spend more money on DMD, like actually pixelating that stuff.
01:39:37
Speaker
I don't, I think, I think, yeah, like the upfront cost of maybe pixelating, but you're not syncing up video to sound and you're not like, there's so much between the assets and,
01:39:48
Speaker
and syncing up the sound and, and making sure all the video works properly.
01:39:52
Speaker
And I mean, it's just so much.
01:39:56
Speaker
And now the coding, I mean, it, you could use a couple of guys to code a pinball machine, like maybe one, two,
01:40:04
Speaker
Now you've got full teams of coders that are trying to help each other just to make the DMD work or the LCD work.
01:40:10
Speaker
I just, I feel like there's a lot of sunk cost into a screen where a lot of people will admit they don't watch, they skip, or it's something that,
01:40:21
Speaker
You kind of notice when you're playing in a group of people and you're just kind of like, but even then, like, I feel like when I'm watching, like if I'm at a tournament, I'm not watching what the screen's doing.
01:40:33
Speaker
I'm watching what the guys are doing to see what they're doing to blow up their score to see if that's a viable option for me and my strategy.
01:40:39
Speaker
Like it just,
01:40:41
Speaker
I don't get me wrong.
01:40:43
Speaker
I think it's cool to see some of the, the, like I enjoy Godzilla scenes where Manila gets the crap kicked out of him because you lost the ball.
01:40:50
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
01:40:51
Speaker
That's just iconic and whatnot.
01:40:52
Speaker
But I just, I overall, if you told me tomorrow that you could save a thousand to $1,500 just by simply getting rid of video assets, I,
01:41:02
Speaker
I don't think it's that much.
01:41:04
Speaker
I really don't.
01:41:05
Speaker
I think that visually you are going back in time significantly and what pushed them to actually, it's cheaper to get, uh,
01:41:17
Speaker
You know, the yes, okay, I know what you're saying to do that, but I think it's cheaper just to put a screen there and to put the cartoon stand up guys like fighting each other.
01:41:28
Speaker
You look at Avengers Infinity Quest, it's basically like stop motion art.
01:41:34
Speaker
There's not much there.
01:41:36
Speaker
And I think for some of the games, they're already doing what we're talking about by not implementing the particular assets to save on cost.
01:41:43
Speaker
Otherwise, we would have what you're talking about.
01:41:45
Speaker
Yeah, we would have certain assets, but I think they're already trying to do what they can for as little a cost as they can by still giving us, you know, a lot of it there.
01:41:54
Speaker
I mean, we would like more.
01:41:56
Speaker
We would like the movie assets in Jurassic Park if you don't already have the altered code like mine do.
01:42:00
Speaker
But like the...
01:42:03
Speaker
movie assets in there do help.
01:42:04
Speaker
I greatly enjoy the movie assets on my Jurassic Park altered code versus what was given to us kind of thing.
01:42:10
Speaker
But we know that I'm sure the licensing for all the movie assets was going to be a much higher cost.
01:42:16
Speaker
When you pay $20,000 for Harry Potter, you'll let me know.
01:42:22
Speaker
Look at Pulp Fiction though.
01:42:23
Speaker
It has no video assets.
01:42:24
Speaker
I love that game.
01:42:25
Speaker
If you haven't played a Pulp Fiction yet, get your hands on one.
01:42:28
Speaker
It is a single level as per request from
01:42:33
Speaker
quentin tarantino himself like we've had this discussion special edition so this is a premium right like this is not even though it's their base level is technically a premium pinball machine eight grand that's 1700 less than a premium from stern look at their le the bad mother flipper nine five that's less than a premium okay but that's also the same thing we talked about that that
01:42:59
Speaker
that Cactus Canyon should have been an $11,500 Ellie.
Success of Retro Design in Pulp Fiction
01:43:04
Speaker
It should not have been a $9,500 Ellie, which they understand.
01:43:08
Speaker
I agree with you, but where is the money coming from on the bill of materials that they can get away with?
01:43:18
Speaker
you can't tell me the Chicago game gaming companies, profit margins are so little that you wouldn't want to make a pinball machine.
01:43:26
Speaker
If, if you're not making money off these games, I just, yeah.
01:43:31
Speaker
And, and they could have sold these games for more.
01:43:33
Speaker
I think Pulp Fiction could have sold for more easily.
01:43:37
Speaker
Yeah.
01:43:38
Speaker
But that's also, you are selling a, it is a retro vibe thing.
01:43:46
Speaker
You can't go back to that well every time.
01:43:50
Speaker
You have an iconic theme that fits a retro vibe.
01:43:57
Speaker
So what would be your next retro vibe that you would do?
01:44:02
Speaker
You're going to remake Flash 4?
01:44:03
Speaker
This is the 90s.
01:44:04
Speaker
This is a 90s pinball machine.
01:44:05
Speaker
It's not a 90s pinball machine.
01:44:10
Speaker
What it does, the theme, the theme was released from the nineties.
01:44:15
Speaker
But if you looked at that without knowing anything about pinball and asked when you thought this was made, you would, you would say late seventies, early eighties, like just, just the vibe it's going for.
01:44:29
Speaker
I think also what sold the game and what people loved about it was the audio.
01:44:33
Speaker
If you didn't have the call-outs, R-rated call-outs at that, and the music to go along with it, I mean, definitely, if you would have had rinky-dink sound effects, the interest in this game would be much lower.
01:44:45
Speaker
But due to the fact that you're getting the R-ratedness of the audio, call-outs galore.
01:44:51
Speaker
I mean, it's got so many call-outs in there, it's just ridiculous.
01:44:55
Speaker
You also get Josh Sharpe's getting in trouble for his...
01:44:59
Speaker
his wife coming up and saying, Hey, uh, tell your dad what you just said.
01:45:03
Speaker
Does he look like, uh, but like I, and I get that you're, you're saying it's retro and whatnot, but I honestly, I want to play.
01:45:16
Speaker
I would, okay.
01:45:17
Speaker
Out of all the games released last year, Pulp Fiction's at the top.
01:45:23
Speaker
And it's not because it's missing video assets.
01:45:27
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
01:45:27
Speaker
Like,
01:45:29
Speaker
I don't know.
01:45:30
Speaker
I just, I feel like there's ways to, to not cut corners, but to, to bring down your bill of materials.
01:45:39
Speaker
And I felt like Chicago gaming company did it right with Pulp Fiction.
01:45:44
Speaker
Was it also like a little bit of the,
01:45:46
Speaker
I guess a breath of fresh air or a change of pace than what we normally get.
01:45:50
Speaker
I think that was also what it was, is that they gave us something that was retro, but modern at the same time, something different, but also the same.
01:46:00
Speaker
And you know that the quality is there and it doesn't change anything.
01:46:03
Speaker
I mean, we could talk about like Turner pinball.
01:46:05
Speaker
They wanted to completely change the aesthetics of the cabinet and they wanted to change things and give us a breath of fresh air, but we do like things a certain way.
01:46:13
Speaker
So they gave us the breath of fresh air by still giving us what we are used to seeing kind of thing.
01:46:18
Speaker
I think that also helps.
01:46:20
Speaker
And maybe you're right there, too, because this does look like an 80s Williams game with the box and the cabinet the way it is.
01:46:28
Speaker
Yeah.
01:46:28
Speaker
So I don't know if that would translate if you released another game.
01:46:33
Speaker
So this is exactly what Bond 60 should have been.
01:46:40
Speaker
The huge mess with bond 60 is that they put it in a standard cabinet while trying to emulate that retro feel.
01:46:52
Speaker
And it didn't translate.
01:46:54
Speaker
If I wouldn't even said that on our episode too, he's like, I mean, people are like, why did you digitize the reels?
01:46:59
Speaker
And they did a video dropping the, right.
01:47:03
Speaker
It wasn't a digitize, but okay.
01:47:06
Speaker
But it looked like it, right?
01:47:09
Speaker
It did.
01:47:09
Speaker
Everybody assumed with the picture it looked like the digitized reels because that's what Beatles is.
01:47:15
Speaker
And Beatles actually is fine.
01:47:17
Speaker
I own Beatles.
01:47:17
Speaker
Like, Beatles is fine.
01:47:18
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good game.
01:47:19
Speaker
I'd like to have one.
01:47:21
Speaker
But if they made Bond 60 with this type of vibe...
01:47:28
Speaker
I think it would have done better.
01:47:30
Speaker
Obviously it would have done better if they dropped it by $10,000 too.
01:47:33
Speaker
There you go.
01:47:34
Speaker
Okay.
01:47:34
Speaker
I was like, I'm waiting for you to mention something about that damn price tag.
01:47:37
Speaker
I'm like, that's the major killer of it.
01:47:40
Speaker
Getting there.
01:47:42
Speaker
But yeah, it's, yeah.
01:47:44
Speaker
Okay.
01:47:44
Speaker
All right.
01:47:45
Speaker
I see what you're saying, Josh.
01:47:47
Speaker
It would be an interesting experiment, but no, nobody's going to leave money on the table if they are selling at the current market.
01:47:56
Speaker
True.
01:47:58
Speaker
Just food for thought, I guess.
01:47:59
Speaker
I just had that thought this week.
01:48:01
Speaker
Okay.
01:48:01
Speaker
You had a Royale with cheese.
01:48:04
Speaker
I had a Royale with cheese, baby.
01:48:05
Speaker
Maybe I'm slightly jealous of Tim Lee because he sent me his pictures of his Pulp Fiction.
01:48:11
Speaker
He's got it set up next to his banner from CGC.
01:48:14
Speaker
And I'm like, why didn't I go with one of those?
01:48:17
Speaker
Oh, because I have small kids.
01:48:18
Speaker
And I don't want to have to explain to them what a gimp is.
01:48:21
Speaker
My local arcade got one.
01:48:22
Speaker
He got it in a couple of weeks ago.
01:48:24
Speaker
And he says, as of right now, it's his top game in this line up there.
01:48:26
Speaker
Yeah.
01:48:27
Speaker
And it's like, man, I don't know for sure, but I'm going to talk to him.
01:48:30
Speaker
I'm like, Hey man, you want to do like a temporary trade with one of my games kind of thing.
01:48:34
Speaker
I'll let one of my games get the crap beat out of it while I enjoy Pulp Fiction kind of thing.
01:48:38
Speaker
You're like, I'll even maintain it.
01:48:39
Speaker
Yeah.
01:48:39
Speaker
I'll go in there and take care.
01:48:40
Speaker
I'll be taking care of my game when it's on that location.
Carrie Hardy's Pinball Content and Success
01:48:43
Speaker
Oh, well, that wraps up for what I had on my notes.
01:48:50
Speaker
Um,
01:48:51
Speaker
This has got to be well.
01:48:54
Speaker
Promote your stuff.
01:48:55
Speaker
Do it.
01:48:56
Speaker
Just find me on YouTube, guys.
01:48:58
Speaker
You can type in Carrie Hardy, pinball into Google, and I'm sure I will pop up on there like firmware.
01:49:05
Speaker
But I'll come up there and be right there.
01:49:08
Speaker
But yeah, I talk and do everything pinball anywhere between just common topics, talking about discussion stuff, how-to videos, product reviews, restorations.
01:49:18
Speaker
Like I said, talking to everything pinball.
01:49:20
Speaker
I've even got something in the works for my next So You're New to Pinball series.
01:49:24
Speaker
It's for a lot of you out there that are just now getting into it, know little to nothing.
01:49:29
Speaker
The ones that ask the questions that a lot of us kind of have to just shake our heads and go, you don't know this.
01:49:34
Speaker
So I do have content for you on the way as well.
01:49:37
Speaker
Okay.
01:49:38
Speaker
And you don't be so modest, man.
01:49:41
Speaker
You've almost got 10,000 followers.
01:49:43
Speaker
Your top video has got 37,000 views.
01:49:46
Speaker
Man, you're killing it in the content creation world.
01:49:50
Speaker
a lot better than most of us.
01:49:52
Speaker
Legendary.
01:49:53
Speaker
Legendary.
01:49:54
Speaker
You won the Twippy for content creator.
01:49:58
Speaker
All 86 votes, yeah.
01:49:58
Speaker
87, your mom voted.
01:50:00
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
01:50:06
Speaker
Okay.
01:50:07
Speaker
It was spread a little thin.
01:50:08
Speaker
Okay.
01:50:08
Speaker
Cause you got loved in, you got, okay.
01:50:10
Speaker
We got to hurry and talk about this.
01:50:12
Speaker
We got a second.
01:50:13
Speaker
I called you up and I'm like, I'm like, Carrie, first off, we're doing the twippies.
01:50:18
Speaker
Do you want to submit something?
01:50:21
Speaker
And I'm not going to go into the full conversation.
01:50:22
Speaker
You essentially said it's hard.
01:50:25
Speaker
It's a hard year.
01:50:25
Speaker
You didn't have time to do it.
01:50:26
Speaker
Right.
01:50:29
Speaker
And so I'm like, well, Carrie, I've got another problem then.
01:50:31
Speaker
Cause you won content creator of the year and I need an acceptance speech.
01:50:35
Speaker
And you're like,
01:50:37
Speaker
You're joking me, right?
01:50:40
Speaker
I can't say exactly what you said because this is a family family.
01:50:43
Speaker
I was pissed.
01:50:43
Speaker
I was like, no.
01:50:44
Speaker
Okay, you earned that, buddy.
01:50:46
Speaker
You earned that.
01:50:50
Speaker
It's still my favorite.
01:50:56
Speaker
You're joking, man.
01:50:57
Speaker
You were crapping me, right?
01:50:58
Speaker
I am disappointed, though.
01:50:59
Speaker
You wear our hat on so many episodes.
01:51:02
Speaker
Where is it today?
01:51:04
Speaker
I had it just on one of my recent videos.
01:51:07
Speaker
Where
Merchandise Promotions and Listener Engagement
01:51:08
Speaker
is it?
01:51:08
Speaker
Like you come on.
01:51:12
Speaker
You lost it.
01:51:13
Speaker
You're like, screw it.
01:51:14
Speaker
I'm not wearing the loser kid pinball.
01:51:16
Speaker
I don't know where it's at, guys.
01:51:17
Speaker
It's usually like right here.
01:51:18
Speaker
It's a state.
01:51:19
Speaker
Now I feel bad.
01:51:20
Speaker
Wow.
01:51:21
Speaker
I'll put on my spooky one.
01:51:22
Speaker
I got a spooky one right here.
01:51:23
Speaker
There you go.
01:51:26
Speaker
No, seriously, man, you're killing it.
01:51:28
Speaker
Congratulations.
01:51:29
Speaker
I still that that will forever be itched in my mind when you're like,
01:51:34
Speaker
really man okay how can they get a hold of you how can they buy your crap tell them oh no need like just go to my just go to my youtube channel and check out everything i have all information in the in the uh video description selling all that stuff and junk if you like g fuel i have a g fuel code for that there's a lot of products out there that i have promo codes for also titan rings if you type in
01:52:00
Speaker
Hardy as the promo code.
01:52:02
Speaker
I want to say you save 10 or 15% off your silicone rings.
01:52:05
Speaker
Same thing with Penn Stadium.
01:52:06
Speaker
Stuff like that.
01:52:07
Speaker
I have promo codes out there for a lot of stuff.
01:52:10
Speaker
So the real question is, how much can I get...
01:52:14
Speaker
money-wise off of your thing on a stick to turn on my pinball machine.
01:52:20
Speaker
Oh, I don't think I have anything for pinball life.
01:52:23
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
01:52:24
Speaker
Get you one of those and have it just hanging in the background off one of your machines and your videos and see if somebody's like, what is that on top of your Iron Maiden, Josh?
01:52:33
Speaker
That's how I turn my machines off and on.
01:52:35
Speaker
Really?
01:52:39
Speaker
Thank you again, Kerry, for coming on.
01:52:41
Speaker
It's always a pleasure having you on, man.
01:52:43
Speaker
Um, yeah.
01:52:45
Speaker
If you want to get ahold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com at loser kid pinball on all the socials, Facebook X, Instagram, Twitch, YouTube.
01:52:55
Speaker
If you're not watching us on YouTube, go there, hit subscribe, all the fun stuff.
01:53:00
Speaker
Also, we have silver ball swag.
01:53:02
Speaker
If you haven't checked out our new shirt, like shout out to Steven Strom.
01:53:04
Speaker
He was wearing our new loser kid attacks shirt and taking pictures with that.
01:53:08
Speaker
And so, um, maybe we need to do like some kind of giveaway to get these shirts out.
01:53:12
Speaker
We should.
01:53:12
Speaker
And,
01:53:13
Speaker
And congratulations.
01:53:14
Speaker
Like, why did we not talk about this on this episode?
01:53:17
Speaker
Congratulations to Neil Shelton, the man that owns PinQuest.
01:53:21
Speaker
He now officially owns Silverball Swag.
01:53:24
Speaker
As far as I know, Will Odding is completely out.
01:53:27
Speaker
He's done now.
01:53:28
Speaker
I guess it looks what it looks like.
01:53:30
Speaker
Yeah.
01:53:30
Speaker
He sold This Week in Pinball to Colin.
01:53:34
Speaker
Hey, what did I say about business?
01:53:36
Speaker
Eventually it moves on.
01:53:38
Speaker
It just does.
01:53:38
Speaker
Yep.
01:53:39
Speaker
So congratulations to them both.
01:53:40
Speaker
Neil, we're going to have to have Neil on.
01:53:42
Speaker
Neil's a great guy.
01:53:43
Speaker
We did a pin quest thing with him.
01:53:45
Speaker
Okay.
01:53:45
Speaker
I'm not going to go off on that, but congrats again.
01:53:48
Speaker
And, uh, yeah, go hit up our silver ball swag.
01:53:51
Speaker
Um,
01:53:52
Speaker
and and give us the last words and by the way congratulations to all your restores every like i i'm sad that i didn't get to see what you'd what you've been doing recently but oh earth shaker was my latest one yeah did that did that in two months oh that's a grind okay it's great stuff eat sleep restore that's all it was right yeah but pretty much it was made it not fun all right carrie give us a parting thought uh uh thanks for having me on guys i love all you long time
01:54:22
Speaker
Thank you.