Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
EP 12: Behind the First Legal Operations Documentary: Susan Packal’s Journey
11 Plays11 days ago
In this episode of Beacon Voices, Akshay Verma speaks with Susan Packal, Head of Global Legal Operations and Chief of Staff at Avalara, about the creation of a first-of-its-kind documentary on the history and evolution of legal operations.
Susan shares the inspiration behind the project, the three-year journey to bring it to life, and the stories of the pioneers who helped shape the profession. Together, they explore how the documentary came together, what it reveals about the growth of legal operations, and why preserving these stories matters for future generations of legal professionals.
The conversation also touches on the challenges of producing a film while leading global teams, the role of leadership and creativity in driving meaningful change, the importance of taking career risks, and how legal operations continues to evolve in the age of AI.
Topics:
Introduction: Susan Packal on the Legal Operations Documentary: 00:00
Susan’s winding career path into legal ops and watching the community evolve: 01:56
Why Documentary Filmmaking Was the Perfect Medium: 04:56
Capturing Authentic, Unscripted Stories from Legal Ops Leaders: 07:59
The Origin Story: How the Documentary Idea Was Born: 10:02
Taking Risks, Career Transitions, and Building Something New: 12:45
The Risks Participants Took to Share Their Stories: 14:39
Inside the Four-Part Legal Operations Documentary: 17:25
Why Susan Hired a Documentary Coach and Filmmaking Team: 18:21
The Biggest Challenges of Producing the Film While Leading Legal Ops Teams: 22:49
The Creative Process Behind the Documentary: 27:51
What the Film Means for the Future of Legal Operations and Legal Leadership: 30:19
Final Reflections and Launching the Documentary to the Community: 32:49
Connect with us:
Susan Packal - https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanpackal/
Akshay Verma - https://www.linkedin.com/in/akshay-verma-esq/
SpotDraft - https://www.linkedin.com/company/spotdraft
SpotDraft is a leading contract lifecycle management platform that solves your end-to-end contract management issues. Visit https://www.spotdraft.com to learn more.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Documentary Project
00:00:00
Speaker
I haven't seen our story being told in this way and that was what you and I set out to do. So when we've got some, you know, real organic things happening on camera, it's unscripted, you've got a good soundtrack, you've got, you know, good representation and people who are really enthusiastic to be part of it.
00:00:21
Speaker
I just think we've we've created something that doesn't exist anywhere else.
00:00:33
Speaker
Hi everyone. This is Akshay Verma, the chief operating officer at Spot Draft and also the host for our podcast, Beacon Voices. And I am really excited today to have a conversation with a longtime friend and peer in the legal operations industry, Susan Packle, who is currently the head of global legal operations and chief of staff at Avalara. Susan, how are you?
00:00:58
Speaker
I'm well, I'm well. I'm excited to to see you this morning.
Significance and Origins of Legal Operations
00:01:02
Speaker
Yeah, and you know I think it's ah a little bit of a unique and maybe extra special episode, just given all that you have done over the last three years for the upcoming documentary that's gonna be released next week at CLOCK about the history of legal operations, about how the function came to be, what it means for the industry, and and how we're thinking about those things moving forward. But and you know, you and I have our own kind of origin story, which we'll talk about in a little bit about how this all started. But I would love to go a little bit back beyond that, because I don't even think I fully knew what was such an important thing for you that that made you say, I want to do this through a visual ah film medium. So take us back and and we'll we'll talk about the day of, and I'll call it day one or day zero, we i'm go to call it we'll talk about that little bit, but let's go let's go a little bit further back beyond that because one of the things that you have um consistently said to me through this whole process, which is going on close to three years now, is that you always wanted to do this and you've always wanted to do it as a documentary, which is tell this story through the documentary.
00:02:24
Speaker
Why was that? where How did that start for you? Yeah, well, I mean, I think having, you know, ended up in in this career through kind of a windy path, starting with law firms and HR and ending up, you know, where where I found myself 15, 18 years later.
Inspiration and Vision for the Documentary
00:02:44
Speaker
It's just been interesting to watch our community evolve and grow. And when, you know, if you if you go back 15 years and you hear this a lot in the film, people were doing this role before it really had a name and before we were referring to it as legal operations, but it was operations and it was in the legal space. um And I remember just seeing these people, I was on the East Coast at the time, so seeing these people on the West Coast, like Steph Corey and Connie and those folks, you know, kind of pull a community together. And it felt like the community was a lot more together than than the community I had, you know, on the East Coast at the time. I was just fascinated by who are these people? How did they get into this? How, do you know, how are they thinking about things? We all had this sort of this common purpose. And so I kind of felt like for the first few years, I did a lot of people watching.
00:03:37
Speaker
And in that space, you just met some really incredible people that came from different walks of life. And to me, that's, that's a story. And I just started seeing this story come together and I was like, wouldn't it be great?
00:03:50
Speaker
You know I'm sure someday someone will do a documentary about this. we feel Somebody will do it. I'm sure, you know, I'm coming late to the game and, and, and that never, never happened. And I think I felt,
00:04:02
Speaker
you know, probably starting back in 20, during COVID is when I started really kind of playing around with some creative stuff, just even for work, doing some very, very light film production for our GC at the time. And um really enjoyed it and enjoyed piecing together the story and getting, you know, seeing people in ah in a more real light than what you normally see on LinkedIn. And for me, it just started during COVID really taking off and then of course led to the day you and I were just talking about, i don't want to jump ahead, but like you and I were both sharing with each other that we were ready to shake some shit up. Like that was the essence of the conversation we were having. And I think at that moment, I just felt like, you know what, I've been incubating this for a while. I think I need to like tell it to someone, you, and see what you see, what you thought.
00:04:56
Speaker
Yeah. There are a lot of different ways to tell stories. Historically, with human beings, the kind of oral communication of stories passed down through the generation. I mean I'm going way back. We can go back thousands of years now. That was you know like that was the way that we communicated stories. There was the written medium.
00:05:19
Speaker
Then you could go back to like all the cave paintings that have been found that are like 10,000 years old um What is special for you around film? is there Is there something stronger, more vibrant, more effective for you in the way that a story gets told in a visual medium? Or was it just kind of like, I want to make a movie and let's let's tell the story through that? i
Authenticity and Emotional Impact
00:05:47
Speaker
You know what? I am a marketer's dream. I am a sucker for any story with the right soundtrack, with the right... poss and like i
00:05:59
Speaker
What really hooked me on documentaries, just like even just moving forward as I look to the next phase of my career, was Drive to Survive for F1. When I started getting to f one i of course, it it wasn't as popular as was's say the the film was not as popular as it is now. But um I stumbled on it. I started watching it. was like, this is an incredible documentary. It was you saw teens in highs, lows, people in very vulnerable moments. But when you know when the lights turn on and they're in the cars and just the incredible professionalism, athleticism, focus, rockstar nature of what these people had to do. But we saw them in the film in all kinds of different settings. And when I said, you know I think I want to tell this documentary, I know the space, I know who the people are, who I would want to be in this film. I want i want it to be real. you know if If I'd had endless amount of time and two more camera crews, You know, I think it would have been great to follow people around for much longer than we we had a chance to. But I think that that was the real key for me is it had to get past the polish that we all need to have, you know, you included and in the roles that that you had and you had now. But to tell a story, it's got to feel real. And I just wanted us to, you know, kind of let the hair down a little bit and talk about the challenges of this and how unsexy this job was at the very beginning for most everyone. um And you've got a great line in the film about being in a room full of boxes and paper. And like, we we all remember that.
00:07:38
Speaker
It was a very real moment. um So yeah, so film, I'm a sucker for a good story. And so I knew if we're gonna do this, you know let's let's do it right. And let's you know peel back some layers a little bit. And thankfully our characters really met us there and they they went deep, which was really rewarding.
00:07:59
Speaker
I think that was for me um one of the coolest things about what ended up getting on film is that there is an authenticity to not just what people said, but you could feel that they wanted to tell it.
00:08:17
Speaker
It was really important to them that this gets told. And I'm sure some of that will come out in certainly in our conversations at CGI next week with Clock, but also in some of the other follow up conversations that we'll do with other screening events and so forth. because It's something I really i think is important to ask the people who ah who graced us with being in the film is why was it so important for them to be a part of this? And that's all it and and that answer that you get back is is pretty special, I think, because it's such a human answer. um All right. So so let's fast forward.
00:08:54
Speaker
i was just going to say when people sat down, you know, there was no script. We did not give people questions ahead of time. We did not give them any sense of the types of things that we were going to be asking them.
Personal Motivations and Risks
00:09:05
Speaker
So when you saw some of those moments unfold on camera, we were all seeing it you organically live at the moment. Those were not scripted moments. So that was- No, no, not at all.
00:09:17
Speaker
Not at all. I remember doing my own filming last year at CGI and sitting down and all a sudden Joe's firing off questions at me. I was like, oh, cool. Okay, I guess I have answers for this. Like, let's go. Let's just go. I'm ready. It's a great way to get an unvarnished kind of response, which is really the one that you should be getting at. To me, that's kind of, not that I've ever made a documentary before, but I imagine that if I was going to do it again, that would be a requirement. For the rest of your documentary career, actually. Yes, for my now budding filmmaking career. That's correct.
00:09:54
Speaker
um I'll stick to maybe just providing funding and unblocking things and not actually the filmmaking itself. um so let's Let's get to the day. Let's get to the day. Day a zero, inception day, whatever we want to call it. should have a name, by the way. We should leave the name with a better name. um and and And one of the things I wanted to just call out is, i and I didn't remember if we took the picture intentionally for this purpose,
00:10:24
Speaker
But it is such a perfect picture. It's in the movie. You and I are on that bluff right behind the hotel. We're going for a hike, a little walk in the back path. And I don't remember if you said we should just memorialize this moment because now we've talked about it or maybe we had just taken a picture. Can you remind me? like My memory is a little tapped on that one. What was what was the the genesis for taking that picture?
00:10:47
Speaker
I remember it like it was yesterday. We had not seen each other in a while. And when you know you said you wanted to go on this hike, we were talking about completely other things. And that was the last thing we did before we got to the top of the the bluff to walk back to the the parking lot, actually, on the sexy parking lot of the hotel. yeah And so that picture was just like, hey, haven't seen long time. We should get a picture. you know I didn't have anything current. got it And it was probably only...
00:11:17
Speaker
10, 15 minutes after that picture is when you kind of started flirting around a little bit with point kind of what your next move might be and then kind of open the door. So that that picture was completely unplanned and and unrelated to the conversation we ended up having just a few minutes later.
00:11:34
Speaker
That's cool. Okay, that makes a lot more sense. I i vaguely remember. So ah a couple of things that happened. This was September 23. I had just bought a Rivian a couple of months before. And that was the first kind of ah long road trip I had done with the car. So I think the car was charging in the parking lot.
00:11:53
Speaker
That's why we walked back that way. I wanted to check in on the charge. And I think you had you had raised the documentary with me in the parking lot and not on that on that ah the the dirt path hike piece of it. But then the other part was, and I think I told you this at the time, I was literally in those two days finalizing the negotiations with Shashank to leave Coinbase and join SpotTrack as their COO. So there was already a lot of change kind of going on in my own head and like, I was about to take ah another pretty big kind of ah risk and leap in my career. So it lined up nicely for... hit you right at the right time. Everything just along.
00:12:44
Speaker
I talk about this a lot with people who ask me about my choices, like leaving the practice of law and doing other things. But man, taking a risk is so worth it. ah The older that I get, the better, hopefully, my judgment became becomes about the risk calculation. And hopefully that's so then you you reduce the the bad side of the consequences that are possible. They're still there. But, you know, it's just not for me, it was never going to be fun if we didn't take risks in our lives. My my dad left India in 1984 with a family, no money and just his education to bring us over. you I mean, I couldn't even imagine doing that with my family. I couldn't, I couldn't imagine doing that. Yeah. So that was the first big risk that I can call back upon without knowing it back then that like really had an impact on the way I looked at life and the way that I thought about things. But it's in your, it's in your genes.
00:13:43
Speaker
It's in your genetic makeup. It was, it was something that just felt very, somewhat very natural to me. And so again, I don't think I ever looked at your idea to do a documentary as a risk because I just looked at it as like, oh, wow, that's a really cool idea. um What did it feel like? Do do you remember? do you remember what you said?
00:14:03
Speaker
i don't. After I after i i told you, and it said you said, well, after you said, i think that's fucking fantastic. We have that in the film. The very next thing you said was,
00:14:15
Speaker
well, how can I participate in this? Like, how can I help you? And I was like, I mean, I just, things happened so fast. It was just not where I thought our conversation was going. was really expecting you to like challenge me little bit more like, are you sure really, you know? And instead you were like, how do we get in on this? I wanna do this with you. And that was really beginning.
00:14:38
Speaker
Yeah. Look, at ah it's an emotional reaction. um And to me, i mean, like, you know, the tying this into filmmaking, part of the reason I think movies are so impactful to deliver messages is because they have a unique ability to elicit emotions from people, right?
00:14:59
Speaker
Two people watching the same show or movie or documentary can have drastically different emotional responses because they're bringing their own lives their own histories and baggage and emotional trauma, whatever you want to call it. Like you bring all of that to a show. Like it happens, like my wife and I are watching a show and like, you know, I'll get super emotional about a part and she's like, what the hell's wrong with you? And like, there'll be so another part and she'll be like bawling. and like, why are you bawling? This is a really, so you bring that individual approach and reaction to the, to the film. And, And, you know not that this is a drama, but there are some very emotional components to this story because a lot of really hard shit had to happen to certain people. They had to go through some really tough stuff to say, going to now go into this and yeah completely change my career or build something. And I have to take this head on. Like, those are all very emotional drivers. And I think movies have an ability to tap into that. So I'm i'm excited to see how that lands for folks.
00:16:04
Speaker
i think I think that that too, there's another, i i saw another side of that. And and we talk, ah and I talk a little bit about it in the behind the scenes episode when I'm sitting in the car having moments of self doubt, but you know, it was, i knew what I wanted generally how deep I wanted to go and how real I wanted to get with people and, you know, go into their homes. And, you know, I had all these, these ideas, but had no idea how people were going to react once they kind of saw things unfold and realize, like Oh, you don't want me to just talk about my career.
00:16:39
Speaker
You, you want me to, you want me to like, go a little deeper and tell you how I got into this and the challenges and more unvarnished view. And so it was a risk for people too. They were, you know, I remember we didn't have anyone, you know, pull out or say like, oh, this is not what I thought. I i changed my mind. We didn't have that, but I was, it was a risk for people to say, you know what? I am okay putting myself out there in this way because I believe in the story.
00:17:06
Speaker
Right. And I believe in, in this project.
Production and Creative Process
00:17:09
Speaker
So I think there were, there was risk taking all around. Um, but that was, that was very cool to see people, you know, these, all these characters just say, yep, I think I'm in, I'm, I'm all in let's go. Yeah.
00:17:23
Speaker
Yeah. And we'll we'll just remind the listeners and the viewers of this that and the documentary is going to be released next week for the very first time to the general public at ClockCGI. They've been a fantastic partner through through the process in the production and and really engaging and understanding the importance that this story brings to their membership. um And so the the the documentary itself has four parts. I want to talk bit about the fourth part.
00:17:55
Speaker
because I love that its focus was why was this made, your brainchild, kind of all of your efforts in making sure that it got made, with um the level of integrity that I now see in the finished product, which we got to watch. I got to watch last night in its full scale.
00:18:18
Speaker
And it was just, it was amazing. um And as I'm watching episode four, one of the things that you talked about was early on getting a coach, getting a coach to help you think through how you should do this. Talk a little bit about that process.
00:18:33
Speaker
Yeah. ah Well, when I, When, when, you know, after you and i had, we had more conversations after the parking lot, but once we both knew, like, we're, we're definitely doing this and Shashank was behind us and we were definitely in it. like I, I did what any operations person would do, right. Is you've been given a new challenge. This is new space. You don't, you don't have experience to draw on here other than just general creativity. I'm like, well, I need a coach. I need someone who does documentaries, who has, you know, gone through this process and who can give me general frameworks. you know, on how to attack, you know, this, this general project. And so I i did have a a coach I met with, you know, every week for several months, um, who really walked me through kind of, you know, here's how to like sort of be thinking about her story structure, letting me know kind of what was going to be coming next. What were the next phases I was going to need to go through? And and the big one was, okay, you need to hire directors. You need people who are actually running the cameras and on set and who are going execute you know on the vision, but also who are going to bring their own you know perspective to it and and have you know influence over the storytelling as well. And so just having a coach there to like walk me through, he's the one that actually connected me on this rando journey message board that is used in the film community for small documentary filmmakers where they pass around jobs and, and and you know, share almost like a classifieds, you know, section for phone online. And that's how we got turned on to Reverie who we ended up partnering with. But, you know, we bid it out. You know, we had three or four companies come back and and then pitch to us.
00:20:19
Speaker
And you know some were better than others, but some people really got it. Because remember, this if you think this was like, I had never done this before. We were talking to filmmakers who had literally no idea what legal opera. I mean, not at all. They were like, well, my husband's ah my husband's a lawyer or my parents were lawyers. I mean, that was as close as the legal industry as they had gotten. And they were agreeing to take on this type of piece. knowing they would be in it for at least a year, right? we Everyone knew we would not.
00:20:49
Speaker
When my coach told me, he said, now, you know, you're going to need about three years to do this. was was like, pfft. Three years. Actually, and I don't need three years. We can get this done. Well, it took every bit of over two years to do it. So I think getting the coach was the right thing to do. it led us to the right you know directors in Reverie. And i just I think I did what anyone would have done, faced with the same challenge. Got to get some support. work I'm actually going to challenge that a little bit. And this it kind to me kudos to you for looking for help at the right time. I don't think we do that enough in our lives. And granted, there's obviously a lot at stake here ah with money and people and all those kinds of things. But i you know I don't know that everybody would have done the same thing. Some people may have just tried to put their head down and kind of bulldoze their way through it and figure it out. But ah you know you were like, i I need someone who's done this before to help show me
00:21:46
Speaker
what I should be thinking about, my blind spots, all those kinds of things. this great I haven't done this before. So I, I'm not sure everyone would have done it that way. So I'm i'm glad that you did it that way because I think, uh, at the end of the day, it really paid off dividends for everything. I mean, if your coach was saying, this is going to take you every bit of three years and we got it done in like two plus, then you did something right i'd say you did something right yeah that's great yeah it's good old sebastian who by the way sent a text last night um wishing you know he he said you you and akshay done this you've gotten it done and just been following along in the sidelines for all this time so he he knew exactly what was happening and was checking in so has he seen it has he it has he seen it
00:22:31
Speaker
has he seen No, I'd be curious to get his take. I mean, be it'd be, be fun because he was there for, with you from the beginning and the beginning be kind of cool to get his take on like, how did so really go yeah he saw the trailer? He was super, yeah. He was super excited when he saw the trailer.
00:22:49
Speaker
What was for you ah the hardest part about doing this start to finish? What was the hardest thing for you in this? you Well, you know, when I, when I,
00:23:01
Speaker
look back, you know, i started a new big role as this was getting started. You know, i was, i was kicking off at a new company. um And, you know, all all the things that come with that. And I,
00:23:18
Speaker
built a team from scratch over at Atlassian at the time. And so, you know, the whole, as you know, and you're in your first year at any company, you know, you're you're building trust, you're building relationships, you're proving yourself.
Creative Satisfaction and Quality
00:23:31
Speaker
And I had a side job that took every bit of my time in the nights, the weekends, whenever Atlassian had a holiday, i was working on the film. So that was incredibly stressful. And I just remember there a few times there being some you know, key deadlines for the film that really had to happen and, you know, juggling work like everyone else, you're juggling work, but I had zero life, you know, if i if I wasn't working in Atlassian, I was working on a film. And then, as you know, i ended up going, ah you know, with my my former chief legal officer to where I am now. So I left a role and started another role yeah as we were, you know, going into post-production on this film or as we were wrapping up filming. So I was still having to go to set locations and, had two laptops and, you know, two different calendars, three different calendars at one time managing for the media company, high desert, and then for my work calendar and, you know, you and I texting and me texting to the teams. I just, I did find that being an operations person, I think set me up well for that because we're really used to keeping a hundred pieces on the board and you're just moving everything forward every day. yeah But this was like, don't,
00:24:44
Speaker
drop the fucking ball, you know, that, that was in any of those places because there are real consequences for that. And, you know, I also, we were in it together and there was always this, like, I don't want to let Akshay and spot draft down. I want this to be as good as they hope it's going to be. So for me, that, that wasn't added pressure, but it was an, it was an extra thing for me. Like, this is special. This is a big deal. you can't let this slide.
00:25:10
Speaker
And I think, you know, having my husband, you know, sit me down more than once um and just say, you really are going to have to dig deep. Like you can see the end of the tunnel to this. You can see the light, but it's crazy right now. You're just going have to dig deep and you can, you can do this. so You can get it done.
00:25:28
Speaker
Yeah. And look, it's done now and it's fantastic. And I think one of the things that I will never forget through this process was and seeing the visual.
00:25:39
Speaker
i think it was episode one. ah The very first rough cut, but it had music ah tied to it. And just thinking to myself, wow, this is way better than I expected.
00:25:54
Speaker
And it was a first kind of gut check for myself and a realization that I think I had expected like, i don't know, handy cam footage like a home movie style. and i And I think I had to really be like, wait, why do I think this is, why did I not think it would be this good?
00:26:13
Speaker
And I think I realized, I think I was expecting lower quality. The production value on this thing is phenomenal. And I think it just adds to the overall experience. I think it deepens the value of the story that's being told. So i'm I'm really excited to see the reactions to this thing next week and in the coming weeks and months and all of that. And one of the things that I will prepare myself for and I would urge you to do as well is the quote unquote constructive criticism but oh that's that will come along with it.
00:26:48
Speaker
And I think sure there's the way way way I'm preparing myself is people have every right to critique whatever is put in front of them. That's okay. yes Whatever. The movie's made. You and I feel yeah really good about how it came out. The people who are in it are going to love it. And that's what we cared about. think they are.
00:27:09
Speaker
that's i think there's some good deals in there. Yeah. There'll be a Cisco. Yeah. I spent, I spent, you know, the soundtrack was really important to me. i spent a lot more time on that probably than, than the directors wanted me to, but um it made a difference just when you talk about when you were mentioning the quality and just the type of story we were telling in and the feels you know, I wanted it all. I wanted the film to have everything. So um we'll see, but I'm,
00:27:38
Speaker
I'm prepared. You and I will be hand in hand next week. i better convey something that When we look around the room there might be some other smiles. There might be some more smiles. and there There should be quite a few smiles. and right. So we talked a little bit about what was the hardest part for you on this. What was the most fun part for you through all of this?
00:27:58
Speaker
um The creative outlet. I gotta to be honest. i I enjoyed being on set. I enjoyed, um, you know, I would say that, that Reverie, that the directors were super on board and supportive. They knew that I was learning and that I had a coach and that I was trying to apply what I learned, but I also had some, you know, immediate reactions, either good or bad to certain things as it was happening. And they were very like in the moment I could, I could voice that. There was never a time where anyone made me feel like, you know, you've never done this before. Like you just stay, you know, that never happened. And so I was right there on set, you know, several times, just kind of i' playing different roles on like, you know, the background and, oh, that pillow looks weird and just, you know, weird stuff like that. But it was just the creative instinct and just,
00:28:47
Speaker
in the In our daily work, as you know sometimes you you just don't get to get that creative side of your brain, get those juices flowing and really let them let them go. And I felt like on this project, when I when i put down Legal Ops Day Job and picked up Legal Ops night you know Night Work, that was really when I could just step back and just release a lot of creativity and how do I want the community to see that and is the community going to react well to that does does that? Does that sound right? Is that right? Do we need to balance that opinion? But as you and I talked about, we also wanted differing opinions. Knowing that not everyone's going to agree on every point of the legal ops story and that that's fine, that this film should hopefully spark conversation. That's what we're hoping to do. So I am going to miss having the creative outlet and have to think think hard about what the next what the next thing will involve for the the side gig because I really needed that outlet.
Future Prospects and Impact
00:29:46
Speaker
That's cool. That's cool. Well, maybe we do some follow-ups for the documentary itself. i'm I'm sure there will be other ideas that come our way for people who, you know, we didn't get a chance. I think part of this was limited by time and budget and all of those kinds of things. But ah the story is nowhere near told, even in its current state.
00:30:07
Speaker
There's so much outside of this movie that still can be told, which I think are very compelling stories to tell. So maybe Maybe we do we'll we'll see. Maybe we'll do that down the road as well. um A lot of people are going watch this movie.
00:30:21
Speaker
It's going to be public on websites. There are going to be screenings. There are going to be people within our profession of legal operations who will see it. There are going to be people completely outside of the legal profession who are going to see it At least I hope that well, because I would love for them to see it. Because I think that's part of the power of of a movie like this. um What do you hope are the takeaways that they see? and And if you have different takeaways for people in legal operations versus GCs and CLOs and definite people who are entirely outside of the profession. Like tell us what you hope they take away from it.
00:30:58
Speaker
um I really hope that at least our general, you know, ops community learned something a little bit on just connecting some of the dots on how some of the the OGs in the space that we talk about, and there are many that we didn't get a chance to include in the film, but the ones that we did,
00:31:17
Speaker
to really understand um how we got to where we are today, the the doors that opened because of the groundwork that these folks you know helped to let to lay. And through grinding it out, through working in a career that didn't really have a name at the time, i i just you know it was important that people coming into our field now could connect the dots to see how things evolved and how we got to, and that they're still evolving with AI, you know, some of the questions we leave unanswered on purpose in the film, um, should be really interesting.
00:31:50
Speaker
I also was hoping that, you know, and I, I think I mentioned this in the film too, um, is there still, we talked about a lot of, you know, there are GCs and CLOs that are still, um that this This space is unproven to them.
00:32:04
Speaker
They haven't had either the right ops partnership or they've had no ops partnership yet. And I think that those are the people that I want them to see this breadth of experience and what um this role brings to their organization, how to run their business, their, you know, legal, like a business.
00:32:26
Speaker
And so to me, I'm hoping maybe some light bulbs go off that like, oh, like I think I'm starting to understand what what the hype is about this role. So I think there's still, a you know, a lot of work we need to do there still, you know, with with just the g the GC community for sure. Yeah.
00:32:44
Speaker
Yeah. um Last question, and then we'll we'll wrap up. um What do you hope or what do you think this film will mean for the profession of legal operations itself?
00:32:59
Speaker
Well, of course, you know, we we don't know. we have hopes. um But the hope the hope ah is that people see our story in a different light.
00:33:11
Speaker
And again, i think we can all go to LinkedIn and see each other's accomplishments and see updates from our companies and see people doing well and people who are great messengers and and great communicators and are very ambitious and all of that stuff you can see and find out there. But I would challenge that I don't, I haven't seen our story being told in this way.
00:33:34
Speaker
And that was what you and I set out to do. yeah So when you've got some, you know, real organic things happening on camera, it's unscripted, you've got a good soundtrack, you've got, you know, good representation and people who are really enthusiastic to be part of it.
00:33:51
Speaker
I just think we've we've created something that doesn't exist anywhere else. Not yet. So maybe this will open the door and there will be other people who have creative ideas to tell parts of this story that, but like you said, the story is not is not told yet in full. It's still it's still happening. It's still evolving. So yeah. I love that. It's a great message to wrap on. Thank you for joining me today and talking about this. um Thank you for having the courage to want to tell this story and making it happen.
00:34:24
Speaker
And thank you for the trust that you put in Spot Draft and in me to kind of help ah make it a reality. And and I'm looking forward to to all the conversations and the reactions and all of the viewings in the coming months, including next week at CGI.
00:34:40
Speaker
Well, thank you to you, Shashank, this the Spot Draft team. I loved every minute of it and really, really can't thank you enough. Akshay.