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Why The MVP Is Dead in Mature SaaS Markets | Srikrishnan Ganesan (Rocketlane)
207 Plays3 years ago
"MVPs are dead for mature markets - launch fully-formed."
In a direct challenge to the "lean startup" gospel, Srikrishnan Ganesan argues that in today's crowded software landscape, launching a half-baked Minimum Viable Product is a recipe for failure. He reveals the "Clarity Before Code" strategy Rocketlane used to build a polished, full-featured product before launch, ensuring they made a massive impact from day one.
Srikrishnan Ganesan is the Co-Founder & CEO of Rocketlane, a client onboarding platform that has raised a total of $45 million in funding. An engineer with an MBA from the prestigious IIM Bangalore , Srikrishnan's first startup, Konotor, was acquired by Freshworks. Inside the Freshworks hyper-growth environment, he scaled the product (rebranded as Freshchat) on a remarkable "$0 to $12 million journey in two years and three months".
In this conversation with host Akshay Datt, Srikrishnan unpacks the playbook of a second-time founder, revealing how past failures and successes led to the deliberate, painkiller-focused strategy behind Rocketlane.
Key Insights from the Conversation:
- Pain-Driven Innovation: Rocketlane wasn't born from market research, but from the founders' direct, "chaotic" experience managing complex customer implementations at Freshworks.
- The "Second Sale" Economy: The episode reframes customer onboarding from a cost center into a company's most potent engine for growth, trust-building, and net revenue retention.
- Community-Led Category Creation: Learn how building the "Preflight" community before the product existed was a strategic masterstroke for market research, brand building, and cultivating a pipeline of qualified early adopters.
- System Over Heroes: Srikrishnan’s philosophy is to replace the "hero-driven" efforts of a few key individuals with a standardized, repeatable process that ensures every customer has a professional and successful experience.
- The "Give-Get" Rule of Discounting: Srikrishnan shares his simple but effective rule for discounting: if you give a customer a discount, you must get something valuable in return, like a multi-year contract or a video testimonial.
Chapters:
(00:00) Introduction
(00:56) The Spark: How a Visiting Professor from Adobe Inspired a Career in Product
(04:53) The Founder's Training Ground: From Verizon & Rediff to the Startup World
(08:04) The First Startup: The Pivot from a WhatsApp Clone to Konotor
(16:19) The Genesis of Rocketlane: Solving a Pain He Lived Every Day
(22:02) The Market Opportunity: Why Even the Best PLG Products Need Onboarding
(26:53) What is Rocketlane? A Deep Dive into the Unified Platform
(33:29) The Customer Journey: Moving from Spreadsheets to a "Beautiful" Onboarding Playbook
(41:11) The Anti-MVP: Why We Launched a Full Product, Not a "Half-Baked" One
(46:10) Early Traction & Fundraising: 30 Paying Customers in the First Two Months
(52:19) The Founder's Playbook on Pricing & Discounting
Hashtags: #SaaS #FounderThesis #AkshayDatt #SrikrishnanGanesan #Rocketlane #Startup #Entrepreneurship #CustomerOnboarding #CustomerSuccess #ProductManagement #CommunityLedGrowth #B2B #VentureCapital #ProfessionalServices #PSASoftware #GoToMarket #Freshworks #IIMBangalore
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Transcript
Introduction and Zencastr Shoutout
00:00:00
Speaker
Before we start today's episode, I want to give a quick shout out to Zencaster, which is a podcaster's best friend. Trust me when I tell you this, Zencaster is like a Shopify for podcasters. It's all you need to get up and running as a podcaster. And the best thing about Zencaster is that you get so much stuff for free. If you are planning to check out the platform, then please show your support for the founder thesis podcast by using this link, zen.ai slash founder thesis.
00:00:27
Speaker
That's zen.ai slash founder thesis.
Sri Krishnam's Career Path
00:00:32
Speaker
Hey, everyone, this is Sri. I'm one of the founders and CEO of Rocket Lane.
00:00:45
Speaker
Krikrishnan Ganesan has had one of the most impressive journeys you would ever find in a founder. He is an engineer who did his MBA from IIM Bangalore. After working in product management roles at Verizon and Rediff, he started his first entrepreneurial venture that got acquired by the NASDAQ-listed Freshworks.
00:01:05
Speaker
At Freshworks, he learnt about building SaaS products for scale and that learning culminated in the launch of his second start-up, Rocket Lane. Rocket Lane has raised $21 million till date from top-tier VCs and it operates in the fast-growing vertical SaaS space.
Product Management at Verizon
00:01:21
Speaker
This episode is a masterclass in building and scaling up a SaaS business and here's Shri Krishnam telling Akshay about how it all started.
00:01:28
Speaker
I had a professor who was a product manager at Adobe, like a visiting prof. So those influences definitely led me to think this is what I want to do. Which is pretty cutting edge for its time, like for them to actually have Google and Adobe product managers take lectures.
00:01:45
Speaker
Definitely. I think there were hardly any PM jobs on campus, to be honest. It showed me what it could be, but then there weren't necessarily those roles available on campus. There were probably two companies who came. I didn't get into those companies, and I started looking outside for life.
00:02:04
Speaker
How can I get myself into this domain? Because I didn't have prior workbooks, it was slightly harder as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So where did you lack that? So I went to Verizon. So a friend of mine was working on the engineering side at Verizon. This friend now happens to be my co-founder.
00:02:21
Speaker
And he had mentioned once that, hey, there is this guy from IAMCal who does product management over here. So in India, he was the only PM in India. So I was like, okay, then why can't you help me get that role? And he was like, I don't know, I asked around, I don't see an option. But I bumped him enough that he got me a conversation with his director in IT. And I spoke to him and he said, hey, I can't give you a PM role, but
00:02:49
Speaker
maybe i'll offer you a business analyst role where you interface with pms and if there is an opportunity i'll be okay with you moving to that function. And a good thing was in three months the opportunity came where like this person i was working with from the product management side basically said hey do you have any other friends like you who can join our team i said
00:03:10
Speaker
Let's not worry about other friends.
Entrepreneurial Journey and Jixi Challenges
00:03:17
Speaker
And what did you learn in that state as a product manager at Verizon? So this was for a setup box software. So very different from what we used to today. But there were a lot of things I learned about right from making a business case for like a new
00:03:33
Speaker
product development initiative. We used the stage gate model for getting approvals on initiatives that all of us had. How to champion a new idea and take it through different stages? What is the stage gate model? It's a pretty popular new product development methodology of SARS inside large companies where anyone can come up with a new idea and then how do you filter through those ideas and take them from idea to validation of some SARS to a prototype
00:04:03
Speaker
buy it to go on, right? And it can get discarded at any stage. It's got to go all the way to legal and all of that and then get to a launch. So that was something that it's a pretty formal methodology for like new product development and was exposed to that. I was definitely exposed to a lot of dimensions to product management itself, like
00:04:25
Speaker
How do you really win the confidence of the team that you're working with? How do you get the engineers and designers to respect what vision you bring to the team? And how do you work well with them? How do you attract ideas from everyone on the team? Because I'm the first one to believe that I'm not the most creative person, but I like to harness creativity from others around. So that was an interesting dynamic that I got better at at Verizon.
00:04:52
Speaker
And then I think there's also elements of what kind of consistency you need to have when you're thinking about design, thinking about naming things in a UI. So I had two, like one, immediate manager who's a director of product management and a VP. So the VP is the person who was giving me a lot more business perspective, making the case for something
00:05:17
Speaker
and all of that came into the picture and this director was the one who was giving me much more like very granular
From Messaging Apps to Rocket Lane
00:05:24
Speaker
input on how to prioritize things, how to like really ensure consistency in the product, how to give feedback to like designers the right way and how to work well with cross-functional team and all of that.
00:05:37
Speaker
So about like, I guess two, three years after your Verizon state, you became a founder. So tell me about that journey from being a PM at Verizon to becoming a founder. Yeah. So I went from like a very large company in Verizon.
00:05:51
Speaker
Next, I went to Rediff. I spent a year, closer to a year at Rediff, which is a 300-member team. But I still felt the larger company Verizon had a more, I would say, a culture that was more excited about the products that they were building. So the whole team was more excited about and believed in what they were doing. And from Rediff, I went to a very small startup called Jixy. Rediff had that issue which Yahoo also had. They were not sure if they're a media company or a tech company.
00:06:20
Speaker
That's true. And I think very often they were trying to catch the next wave and that focus kept shifting a fair bit. So that was like the hard part over there. And frankly, it was not the kind of art where I could see myself stick on more because
00:06:37
Speaker
because people around me weren't believing in what they did. And I was used to a certain kind of thing. So I thought maybe a startup is what I should go to next and went to the startup called Jixi. I was heading product for them pretty much. So think of this as like YouTube for the masses where back then feature phones were popular. So like you have these
Rocket Lane's Solutions and Strategies
00:06:56
Speaker
Nokia and Samsung and Sony Ericsson Java phones.
00:07:00
Speaker
And YouTube doesn't download those devices, right? So our Java app would allow people to stream long-form videos like movies on 2G networks.
00:07:09
Speaker
That was the play and it was fairly successful as a product. I had like 6 million downloads in the first six months. I was super excited to make all that happen over there because I pretty much built the team. I felt like I was pretty much running the team over there. I had that strong sense of ownership and it was my identity for those two and a half years I was there.
00:07:33
Speaker
And in a way, I think that's the strength that also gave me this confidence that, hey, I can go out and do something on my own. You need to be like slightly irrational and overestimate overconfidence is needed to go and start something. And that happened from the Jixi strength for me.
00:07:50
Speaker
Jixi workout, like both for you and as a business? Well, we weren't making much money as a company because we were saying our users who have like local Nick street watchman would be watching long form video on this, but he's not going to be able to pay for it. He's already paying like five rupees a day for his internet or whatever. And that's how much he's been offered. We didn't turn it into a B2B business with folks like Disney, Reliance and Sony as customers. But I think we weren't charging them enough.
00:08:18
Speaker
They were actually making more money than us of it in whatever way. And the company got acquired by ViewClip in 2012. And ViewClip eventually made that business successful and large. More so, I would say in Southeast Asia, they took it more global as well. But I didn't stick around. So I sort of said, hey, I have this confidence that I can do something on my own and I have an idea and two friends willing to work with me on that idea. So let me go back to Chennai and start that right away.
00:08:48
Speaker
In respect to how Jixi was doing, I think I would have done this anyway, because that bug sort of bit me by then. And I thought it was easy. What was the idea that inspired you to quit a job and become a founder? Yeah, so the original idea we started working on was voice messaging app. So think of WhatsApp back in 2012, they didn't have any voice messaging feature.
00:09:15
Speaker
And we were like, hey, WhatsApp is sort of lame. It's very plain. We're going to make a much more fun version for today. And it's going to have voice. And that's really taken off. And Korea and China and Japan are all about voice messaging. And maybe India will be too. So that was the idea. And there were a lot of these chat startups. Hike was also, I think, building up around that time. And Vine was advertising on TV. I remember seeing their ads on TV, which was fairly surprising.
00:09:45
Speaker
Correct. So you had the Pangiti Chopra for WeChat, Katrina Kaif for Line, and we figured that it's going to be hard to compete with all of them. We started immediately. We had Hike launch. A couple of months later, you had WeChat, the next month Line, and the month after that, WhatsApp launched voice messaging.
00:10:02
Speaker
And that was when we said, OK, wait, let's read. That's what we're doing. But we had a beautiful pivot at that point where we said, hey, messaging is what we really believe in. We have built beautiful messaging for people to chat with each other. But what if we can make this happen between a person and a business? So we changed it into an SDK that went into other
Market Expansion and Pricing
00:10:22
Speaker
people's apps. So we've used the chat and Zomato and Swiggy and Big Basket, Bankbaza, all of that was powered by us.
00:10:29
Speaker
Yeah, okay, okay, okay. Got it. Got it. So like a early version of chatbots or what today say yellow AI is offering. Correct. Exactly. So it wasn't chatbots back then. It was all human powered. But
00:10:43
Speaker
messaging as a medium, we were really championing that to bring it to every app out there. Was it making money? In Dixie, you felt that you were not charging customers enough. Did you fix that problem here? How did it go? We had a fair number of customers who weren't paying us yet, but we also had a fair number of customers who were paying us decent money.
00:11:17
Speaker
paid tax as a startup in our second, third year of operations. So we shouldn't have given that we weren't like compensating our bills and up, et cetera. But that's what ended up happening. So we were making money, not loads of money, but there was potential. Do you have cash flow positive, basically? Yeah, we have cash flow positive. And
00:11:37
Speaker
And we also had a couple of
Community Building and Product Launch
00:11:39
Speaker
larger customers. One of them was in the US.
00:11:39
Speaker
this was bootstrapped. You didn't raise any external funds. Yeah, we didn't win.
00:11:44
Speaker
like some prize money from Axel and Qualcomm. That was a convertible lot through a contest, but we didn't turn it into equity. And, you know, other than that, for the most part, you would stop. Okay. So then what happened? Like, why don't you just continue building that only? Like,
00:12:02
Speaker
Yeah. So we actually had put together an angel round to take things forward with more firepower. And at that time, there was inbound interest from another company to acquire us. One thing led to the other. We first started to dismiss it because even before that, most companies that we engaged with used to say, hey, can we acquire your product and company? Because we were a small team. We were just three of us for the first two and a half years.
00:12:29
Speaker
And people love the idea. So every customer who is potentially talking to us about, hey, can we acquire? Yeah. And we want to make this code to our business and all of that, right? Engagement is important. And we said, no, because most of them we knew would throw very small acquire offers at us. So here as well, we said no, but then the
00:12:53
Speaker
founder and the investors at their end said, no, it was another different company. And they said they're very serious about it. And then we should at least listen to what the offer is. And we actually found it to be an interesting enough offer for us. Because we were bootstrapped, we hadn't taken any external money that we needed to return. It was an interesting proposition. And then Freshworks also came into the picture. And then it became a no-brainer for us.
00:13:21
Speaker
Freshworks is one of max that offer and we've heard so many great things about how fast Freshworks is growing. So it's like real money. It's not like paper money. So let's go again. Okay. They were offering a cash buyout.
00:13:36
Speaker
No, but we knew that, I mean, there was cash involved, but equity was more. We knew cash worth equity is at least what it was then. We didn't expect it to grow as much as it did now, but we thought, we believe it was real. Did you hold onto it till IPO?
00:13:55
Speaker
Yeah, I still have it. Okay, so then what like you joined Freshworks? Like, what's the journey after that? Like, yes, so we sort of joined Freshworks early enough in the Freshworks journey in 2015. And region and thing basically gave us like
00:14:18
Speaker
the freedom to continue building that business. And there was another team doing similar things in Freshworks, so they sort of joined. We put the two teams together and nearly went after this mobile messaging in a big way. But I would say it was still chunky growth. It was still not like the kind of momentum that the rest of Freshworks had, which was an eye-opener to us. When we saw how things work inside, we were like, oh, wow.
00:14:46
Speaker
Obviously, we wanted that too. We were like one of the hardest working teams inside the company, but we didn't have the same results to show us the others. And one thing that happened was at an event like me and Girish were at this event where Shekhar Kirani, investor at Axl, he was actually talking at this event about how a rising tide lifts all boats. And at that moment, we sort of looked at each other at a break in that session and said, hey, are we in a rising tide or not?
00:15:16
Speaker
And we knew the answer, we were not, because there weren't other players who were growing fast in that market. Whereas in web chat, which has existed forever, there was a new company, Intercom, that have grown from 1 million to 50 million in three years. So we were like, OK, maybe we just need to make some adjustment here and say, OK, let's go after web as well, not just mobile messaging. That one change we made, like we decided in late 2016,
00:15:45
Speaker
2017, we re-launched as fresh chat with web and mobile, became the fastest product in Freshworks to reach various revenue milestones. So it really, really changed the trajectory, became like an awesome growth story for us. It was very rewarding to see what it did for everyone on our team as well. So everyone naturally was pushed to grow and level up in different ways because the business was growing.
00:16:11
Speaker
So this was like the chat pop-up which comes when you visit a website where they say you go to a NetTech website and there'll be a chat pop-up like, can I help you understand which course you're looking for? And then you start chatting and there could be a human or it could be a bot. So you probably built the human version of that.
00:16:32
Speaker
That's correct. I mean, we did, when we re-launched the style, it did add some bot elements because Freshworks had also acquired a bot company at that time. So we integrated that as well into the system. But yeah, that's what it was. Got it. And obviously it made sense for Freshworks because their customers are coming to them for customer engagement solutions. And this is an important piece of the bouquet that they would be able to offer.
00:17:00
Speaker
Absolutely. It definitely, you know, it was already important, but it also started delivering on that promise in 2017. And since then, it's become like one of the most important products that they're investing in. Okay, so you were leading Fresh Chat till, I think, close to end of 2019, right? So then, like, what happened then?
00:17:26
Speaker
Yeah, we spent four and a half years at Freshworks. December 31st, 2019 was actually our last date over there. But we had sort of planned to move out from like mid-2019 until we had made that decision and we worked with Girish and like the senior leadership there to do like a smooth transition over a period of time. Because we knew we had one more startup in us and after having seen what growth does for you and the team,
00:17:54
Speaker
we really wanted to try it on our own. So we'd seen that journey inside Freshworks now, we've experienced what momentum can mean for everyone. And we wanted to make that happen. Did you have a clear idea in mind that what is it you want to build? Or you thought you'll figure it out after quitting? We had a few ideas. We hadn't necessarily validated them. But
00:18:20
Speaker
We knew these are very clear pain points. Once we got out, we started talking a lot more about which one we want to go after, which one's going to have the right momentum behind it, and started validating, talking to people from different companies who were in those roles.
00:18:38
Speaker
And fairly quickly settled on the current idea, which is really about purpose-built software for customer onboarding and implementation teams, because we'd faced it firsthand at Freshworks as well, the problems around customer onboarding and implementation. Help me understand what was the problem you saw that convinced you that this is what you should go after. So whenever we were selling to mid-market or enterprise customers,
00:19:09
Speaker
you'll finish the sale, but to go live with the customer was like a real headache and so much chaos. So they were always like, there's some sort of finger pointing back and forth, dealings. And it was never like a happy journey, though this was probably the most crucial part of making the customer successful with your product. This was the most crucial part where you either build or destroy trust with the customer.
00:19:35
Speaker
We could see what happens. I was personally involved in some of our largest early customers for Fresh Chat. When I was super proactive about it, I involved myself and ensured things happened perfectly.
00:19:52
Speaker
The trust and how things went forward with that customer was very different from if I dropped the ball somewhere, let others handle it, and if the playbook wasn't followed to a tee, something went wrong, then it was escalations forever.
00:20:10
Speaker
So I've never used fresh chat myself. I'm just imagining software which I've used, like say Canva. So I don't understand what is that onboarding problem that you're talking about. Sure. Let me explain. Give me an example. Yeah. So when you talk about fresh chat, for SM they take one line of JS, add it to their website, their life. But for a typical mid-market or enterprise customer,
00:20:37
Speaker
your software needs to solve specific problems for them. And it needs to work well with the rest of their ecosystem. So essentially, that means you first need to get on a kickoff call with the customers, hey, this is what we understand are your goals, is our understanding right. And this is how over the next four weeks, they're going to make you successful with our product.
00:21:01
Speaker
And then there is a phase of their developers sort of integrating your product into their website, into their app in larger customers that will involve like authentication because you know when someone is using the product, you don't want to ask them who you are. The product should know. You want to talk to their database to identify customers.
00:21:21
Speaker
It should identify the customer, it should like full data from their systems so that rep can answer questions without having to dig into other systems. They have all the data they need right there. So it involved the links of custom apps, usually building out the right bot flows for them. And then training, because all of them had like 300 users, 1000 users, how do we ensure that they all get comfortable and use the product the right way?
00:21:48
Speaker
So there is that old journey to set them up with the right integrations, migrate some data out needed, push data into other systems that they have, train the team, ensure adoption is happening, help them figure out how to monitor how their teams are doing. So that whole journey, right? So it used to happen over like spreadsheets and e-mails and Slack conversations and so on, which meant siloed information in different places, which meant people dropping the ball on both sides.
00:22:19
Speaker
which meant escalations. And that's the problem we looked at and said, okay, we need a purpose-built software, which is going to combine elements of project management, conversations, document collaboration into one experience, so that we're done with the silos. Everyone has the same view of what's happening.
00:22:39
Speaker
If I, as a business leader, I need to know what's going right and which projects are not going well, I need a way to quickly see that without asking people. And even when I ask people, usually I get their perspective, but I want to know how's the customer sentiment around this onboarding as well. Some onboarding can take three months. And if I know at the end of one month, the customer is not feeling comfortable or confident about how things are going.
00:23:09
Speaker
I can figure out how to jump in or put someone else on the job to fix their perception. So it's a lot about visibility on both sides. It's a lot about unifying all the information in one place. And it's also about helping you surface patterns from how you're doing things. If you know that kickoff is where my customers are rating me poorly.
00:23:35
Speaker
We're not doing a good job there. Maybe I need to train the team better on how to do the best kickoff meetings. If my training is not well received, maybe I need to change up something over there. So you also have this element of feedback from the customer coming in through. How big is this like the total addressable market for something like this? Because more and more companies would try and build products which are
00:24:00
Speaker
idiot-proof plug-and-play where you don't necessarily need a complex onboarding. They would want to aspire to build their products like that. Each new startup, Salesforce is what Freshworks in a way disrupted. Now, Salesforce is notoriously complex to adopt and Freshworks disrupted it by making it easier to adopt.
00:24:22
Speaker
Maybe tomorrow someone else will disturb Freshworks and build something which is even easier to adopt. So help me understand why you thought that this is a big enough market where you will see massive growth.
00:24:37
Speaker
Sure. So there are two parts to the answer. First is SaaS in itself is growing so much. And yes, there is this PLG sort of motion that gaining popularity, which means you don't need as many salespeople and complex onboarding and so on. What is PLG just for the audience? It's product-led growth, right? So you look at a product like Freshworks or Slack or Jira, etc. Your expectation is that people will set it up on their own and they don't need help.
00:25:05
Speaker
Like, if you build a good enough product, then you don't need to market it. Like, you don't need to sell it rather. Correct. You don't need to sell it. Also, the expectation is people will become successful with the product on their own. But the truth is, even when you look at Slack, which is like the biggest example of TLG probably, when Slack sells to a company the size of Freshworks, 3,000 employees, right? Now much more. But even at 3,000,
00:25:32
Speaker
they needed a playbook to make Slack successful inside WishWorks. Because if you just opened it up with whoever do whatever, there's no sense of how to organize things as channels, what should be allowed, what should be not allowed, which apps can be installed, which apps should not be installed, should disconnect with the SSO or not. So there is a lot of decisions that IT needs to make. There's a lot of decisions that the company needs to make about how they're going to organize
00:26:01
Speaker
for better communication within functions, across functions, across geographies, et cetera. And Slack probably has seen what works and what doesn't for other customers. So they need to bring their playbook, understand the context of this company, and truly do a proper onboarding. So in that way, I think when you sell to mid-market or enterprise, you cannot escape onboarding, however simple your product is.
00:26:29
Speaker
That's one part of the story. But the real story to us is what we built, though today we are focusing on onboarding as what our website talks about and what we are championing. There is a much wider, bigger market that we're going after, which is customer-facing projects of all kinds. When you have a vendor and a customer collaborating. So there's service companies who are doing customer-built
00:26:58
Speaker
Not just products, it could be a marketing agency, it could be a consulting company, it could be an IT services company. Whoever it is, if you're working with clients and you want to have a repeatable motion which you take every client through to deliver your offering, then Rocket Lane automatically becomes Phoenix better than your Asama or Jira or whatever else.
00:27:23
Speaker
So the traditional way in which service agencies onboard a new client, they would have some sort of a playbook, but it would not be a very formal playbook. It'll start with a call and it'll depend a lot on the person who's leading the call, like if he's aware of the playbook or not.
00:27:42
Speaker
And that person would have to drive that whole process, OK, now we've understood this. Let's send them this proposal. And then now let's get this sign off from them. And now let's send them a wireframe of what we want to do, or whatever it is. So it would be very human-dependent. So you would be able to help a company put it into more hard-coded so that no matter who's the person who's doing the onboarding, they are following that playbook.
00:28:08
Speaker
Correct. The idea is to move from hero driven to system driven, right? So like you usually depend on one hero, sort of ensuring the client is happy and think they're happening the right way. Over here, like the system makes sure everyone can deliver the same way. And it's not only onboarding in these cases, right? In this service companies, it's actually the delivery of their cells itself, which we're looking at happening through RocketNet.
00:28:34
Speaker
In a way, an onboarding team inside a SaaS company is like a services team inside a product company. And you're thinking, this is going to work for all services companies. So essentially, this is a post-sales software, like a post-sales SaaS product. Correct.
00:28:53
Speaker
Right, which is a fairly open space. Most companies are looking at pre-sales, like how to manage leads and convert leads. So there are support systems and there are customer success tools which do certain jobs well. But no one manages these initiatives and programs between the two companies in a good way. So no one was built for that. And that's what we are changing.
00:29:21
Speaker
Right. Got it. Got it. Okay. Okay. So I'm assuming then this is something which is for the employees to use. It's not a, like the end client of that company is not really going to use this as an interface, but it's essentially for the in-house employees to use. Like say the way my team would use Salesforce, which is they're using Salesforce, the end client doesn't really know that there is Salesforce being used at the back end. Is this what this is?
00:29:48
Speaker
No, this is a collaborative space between the two parties and that's what really differentiates what we do versus like you can create a project on Asana and ensure people do all the steps, right? But Rocket Name is built for client collaboration. So you invite a client into your project, they get full visibility
00:30:10
Speaker
they don't need to sign up or sign in because we send them a magic link. They click on the link, they come to, let's say, onboard.freshworks.com. It's branded by our customer. So it's their portal. Our customer's customer can actually see
00:30:29
Speaker
where they are in the journey, what tasks are on their plate, what documents they're working on together, what are the minutes of the last meet, what conversations are happening. What is the pending work? Like at times customers have stuff pending on their end because of which delays are happening. So that would get flagged to them, like say some signature is pending on a document or stuff like that. Even inputs, right? Like they need to give like the report format that they need configured.
00:30:57
Speaker
So provide the input. It's due since last Tuesday and it's visible to the leader on the customer side as well. So you're able to hold each other accountable with the journey. That's an important thing. The second is your internal and external collaboration happen in the same place. So you're not trying to find a different place. Everywhere in Rocket Lane, you can say, hey, this particular task
00:31:20
Speaker
It's not for the customer to see, it's for my internal team. So I can mark some tasks as private, some tasks as shared, some documents as private, some documents as shared. And when I complete certain important milestone in the project, the customers can rate the experience they had with me right through this portal. So it brings that element of feedback as well into the system itself.
00:31:44
Speaker
So is this a workflow focused tool? Or is it a project management tool like Asana? And I want to understand the product better, because this is an audio medium, so we can't show a demo of the product. So talk to me about what is it like. Do you create a workflow that this is stage one of onboarding, stage two of onboarding, stage three of onboarding?
00:32:13
Speaker
the customer is going through that journey. And for each stage, you have sub-tasks as you check them off, it automatically moves to the next stage. The way it would happen, like say in a CRM for sales, where you have like say prospecting and negotiations and deal signing. Is it like that? Correct. So think of it as bringing together a few elements. One is
00:32:36
Speaker
There is a strong project management aspect. So the way I like to describe it is it's like Asana plus Slack plus Google Docs or Notion, but built for customer-facing projects. And what differentiates it is there is a strong templating experience as part of it, where you can say, as you rightly said, this is stage one. This is stage two. Here are the tasks. Here are the sub-tasks. So you're going to create that flow. You're going to create a template for the project.
00:33:06
Speaker
or multiple templates for different kinds of projects. And then you're going to invite the customer into each of those projects. You get a portfolio view of what's happening across the projects, including the customer sentiment, including like, is it buried or not? How do you get to know customer sentiment? Through that feedback, right? So when you deliver on a milestone, the customer rates the delivery and gives you that input. So
00:33:34
Speaker
As a leader, you get the full picture of what's happening across projects. As an individual project owner, what's stuck, who's it stuck on, what needs to happen next. It gives you tools to publish status updates, meeting doors and all that with great ease. The customer can also access it without signing up for any tool.
00:33:54
Speaker
to see where they are in the journey. They're going to get automatic notifications and reminders for tasks that are on their plate. So the follow-ups that you need to do are reused. So really try to streamline that whole journey and put everything, including your kickoff deck and documents you're working on together, all in one experience.
00:34:12
Speaker
Okay, so let's talk more on product only and I'll dig deeper. But one quick question first. A lot of IT service companies use Basecamp for a similar objective, right? Like as a post-sales tool to manage the project collaboratively with the client. And I've never used Basecamp myself, but for people who have used it, how would this be different from Basecamp?
00:34:38
Speaker
I would say this is a much more robust version of Basecamp in a lot of ways. What is Basecamp? It's like a sauna on which you can get your customer on it also. Basecamp is a very bare-bones task management, document management experience where you can create different projects. You can invite customers to work with you on those projects.
00:35:02
Speaker
And you do have the notion of internal and external over there, which is a good thing, right? But it's two variables to run serious projects. So if it's just a few tasks that you're tracking, you can do that on Basecamp. If you need to have like real
00:35:16
Speaker
like a large project that you're working on. You need to embed like serious documents in it. If you want to template those documents, if you want to get visibility into what's happening across projects, have some reporting, have a portfolio view, dashboards, all of that is not possible in Basecamp. Basecamp is typically, I think if you're a small shop, which is working with, let's say two or three clients, Basecamp is going to work beautifully for you.
00:35:47
Speaker
The minute it gets serious and you have a larger team, you want to measure how the team is doing and you want to track the progress across projects, a leader wants the right visibility, then it breaks down.
00:36:04
Speaker
If you like to hear stories of founders, then we have tons of great stories from entrepreneurs who have built billion dollar businesses. Just search for the founder thesis podcast on any audio streaming app like Spotify, Ghana, Apple Podcasts and subscribe to the show.
00:36:25
Speaker
Okay, got it. So talk to me about the journey for your direct customer. I mean, what is your direct customer? And then second is the customer's customer. So first, let's talk about the journey for the direct customer. What, like say, a company signs up for it, what next then? Do they have to create the templates and the workflow steps and the stages? They have to define all of that? Like, how does their onboarding happen?
00:36:53
Speaker
Yeah, and you also have to plan for their onboarding, of course. So we figured that this is an area where people don't necessarily have the maturity in a lot of companies to do this well on their own. So they do it in some way today. They have a checklist or they have a spreadsheet with some items that they're tracking. So we inspire them to build a beautiful template in Rocket Lane out of those spreadsheets that they carry.
00:37:20
Speaker
So we give them like a sample template, which they can modify and make their own. But we also give our inputs on it. And we also have a community. We have a 1,200 member community called pre-flight, a global community where people actually can share and ask questions and learn from each other as well. But we typically end up taking the customer's checklist, turning it into a beautiful template for them. And we do that in a day.
00:37:47
Speaker
just so that they're having a better experience. They're not stuck in that step. And typically, this is one more thing that the customer is doing other than fighting customer buyers at their end. So we don't want them to get delayed with this step. So we say, you just give us your spreadsheet. We will do version one of your template. You take it from there and iterate on it. So we then give them the template. We also give them a playbook of how to evaluate Rocket Lane.
00:38:14
Speaker
because it's not necessary that all of them already know what to expect from the product. It's new. It's a new kind of product. So we tell them, hey, there are things you want to get familiar with. And we give them a plan to go through that. So in a week, typically, some cases, even in three days, they come back and say, OK, I'm happy with what I see. I want to buy.
00:38:35
Speaker
And once they buy, then we start the proper onboarding, where we do things like integrations with their CRM, integration with their help desk, if they need any other sort of things set up, like custom fields in the project, custom fields on the tasks, migrating some of their existing projects into Rocket Engine. So we help them with all those activities. If it's a larger team, then we do training for them, which includes, like, we're going to do a quiz for them, they're going to do a reverse demo for us. So we have a beautiful playbook, which we take them through.
00:39:05
Speaker
And the aim is may need to learn something on how to onboard customer from our experience onboarding them. Right. Okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. Okay. So your onboarding serves as a benchmark for them that this is how you can use the tool. Right.
00:39:23
Speaker
Okay. Interesting. And so when you say that like most companies have something on a spreadsheet as their onboarding checklist and you help them to make it more beautiful, what does that beautiful look like? Is it like a Kanban board or what does it look like? Yeah, it is going to be a board, but it's also going to be
00:39:44
Speaker
like we're going to help them give some themes and names to the different faces. We're going to help them explain their onboarding better to their customers, saying, hey, week one, we're going to focus on configuration. Week two is going to be integrations with other systems. Week three is training and feedback. Week four is this. So we're sort of going to help them craft it the right way.
00:40:07
Speaker
we're going to give them ideas on, hey, you know what? Looks like this is your usual problem. Migration is a big problem for you. So we suggest that in week one itself, you create this template for input for the migration. I did. So like you could make like a Google form kind of like you can embed forms within this work for capturing information you need so that instead of sending an email with bullet points that please share this stuff, you can just select it.
00:40:35
Speaker
So the idea is to really help them with streamlining their onboarding and help them look more professional in front of their customers and de-risk their process by doing this the right way. Got it. Interesting. And what is the client experience now? The customer's client, he'll get a magic link once he's, say someone
00:41:01
Speaker
sends an inquiry to a company that, OK, I'm interested in getting this app built. Let's say I want a food delivery app built, and it's a software services company. So what could be that client's experience in such a scenario? So the client's first brush with Rocket Lean typically would be on a call where they're asking about, hey, what happens after we buy? Or if we decide to engage, then what does the process look like? And in that time, our customer
00:41:30
Speaker
is going to use rocket train to interactively walk them through the next few weeks or the next few months. So they're going to showcase the journey and if this happens at a kickoff or if this is, let's say this didn't happen before sale, but at kickoff you're saying, okay, let me show you what the journey is going to be.
00:41:49
Speaker
Well, that is where they also invite the customer and say, hey, by the way, what you saw is like our onboarding portal, our delivery portal, and we're going to invite you to work with us on this portal so that we can hold each other accountable and we can have the
00:42:04
Speaker
better visibility to how things are progressing, and we can collaborate right here. So please see if you have this link from us when you're able to access this portal. And on that call, they access the portal. They have a beautiful view of a dashboard of what's pending and what's happening right now, what does the whole project look like, what are the documents that have been shared with them, including the kickoff deck and requirements document and so on.
00:42:29
Speaker
So then that becomes like a place where they will automatically come to, to engage, ask a question, mark a task as getting done. And they also want to get emails and the emails have actionable buttons in them, which help the customer, customer's customer, just click from the email to say, I'm done with this and I'm blocked on this task and so on. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Amazing.
00:42:53
Speaker
How does the customer see the journey, the roadmap? Is it steps and showing that you are here? What is that landing page for the customer's client look like? It's going to look like it's a board view. It's like a Kanban, but each will have different faces as vertical columns. Things are either done in a face or still happening in a face, so you can see which got done what not yet done.
00:43:21
Speaker
But to present it to the customer, there is a presentation mode that we built. Because we built this for client-facing projects. We said, hey, you want to present it, we will animate this journey for you. It's going to come face by face. You sort of walk them through what is their responsibility, what is your responsibility, what are the timelines. All of that shows up in a beautiful way.
00:43:42
Speaker
Amazing. Okay. And what is the pricing like for this? How do you price it? We charge only for our customers users, for their clients and customers, it's free. So if they have like 10 people on the team, there's going to be 10 into $49 per month into 12 months. So like 5,080 is what they will pay per year.
00:44:09
Speaker
And what is the minimum team size that you work with if someone was to buy just a single seat? We kept our minimum as five because it's a collaborative product. We believe that even if you have three people in onboarding, you should give one more license to a product manager or some other team within the company. You should give one more license to probably one of the founders who's involved in the customer side of things. Or maybe a sales head wants to see what's happening with the accounts that they brought in. So we
00:44:39
Speaker
kept the minimum as fine. Okay. Got it. So tell me from a timeline perspective, when did you launch the product and how did you get the first 10 customers on it? Tell me about that journey, from that zero to one journey.
00:44:54
Speaker
Sure. So the first thing I would say is we didn't launch one part of this, he launched the full product on May 1. So it was not the typical MVP approach. We said this product, and we've seen this happen at thresholds as well for certain categories. It makes more sense to build out the full thing and then launch it rather than like try to start somewhere and build up.
00:45:16
Speaker
And especially because you're not doing it for SMEs, you're doing it for enterprises. So you have only one chance to knock the door, so to say, and if they don't like it, then you can't knock that door again. Actually, a lot of our customers are small companies. Their customers are enterprises and mid-market companies.
00:45:34
Speaker
So we even catch a lot of companies early and that's part of our plan because then some of them grow really big with you, right? And that's a good thing to happen. Now, the way we got started, we did have like this community already and we had some friends of Rocket Lane of sorts who were looking forward to the launch. But somehow, tell me about the community. Like you built that first and while you were building the product or like how did the community come about?
00:46:01
Speaker
We launched the community nine months before we launched the product. It was essentially, it started off with like, I was talking to this founder, Nimesh from Rockmetric in Bombay. And he was telling me about how implementations used to be for him and how over the last four or five years he's evolved it quite a bit. It's much tighter now and what are the tactics they're using for that.
00:46:23
Speaker
I said, hey, I think more people will be willing to listen to this. Can you share this story of yours with more people? And he said, yes, sure, happy to do it. Posted about this in a SaaS Boomi enterprise group. And people said, yes, we want to listen to the story. They all came together on a Zoom session, a lot of questions, a lot of activity. At the end of the session, I said, hey, I'm going to start this black group. And I'll send you guys invites if you're interested in joining. And then I made this a pattern. Every month, two sessions, and everyone who attends the session,
00:46:53
Speaker
It's added to the slack group and that's how the community started and these are your target audience whom you want to eventually sell it to. These are delivery people, these are like onboarding specialists and so on. We then also started to like reach out to people globally about it saying hey we have these kind of companies already in the community you should also join and people did join.
00:47:15
Speaker
And then it became like there's a snowballing effect and we had some events that every month we do two events. So some events like we already have a lot of attention and we got featured on some blogs with top five customer success communities to join and whatnot.
00:47:31
Speaker
So all of that's given us a fair amount of traction. Even today, our sales team, when we get on a call in the prospect, one of the first things they will talk about is to tell the company that, hey, whether or not you buy a rocket plane, you should join our community because it's going to be super valuable for you. And it also adds credibility to what we're doing. So did this community also help you build or you already had a fairly clear idea of what you want to build because of the fresh work experience?
00:48:00
Speaker
I mean, there are some conversations which gave us ideas and there are some people in the community, but we were already connected to them who we sort of think often with like, hey, this is the direction we're taking, this is the idea, give us feedback, here's like a click through prototype, what do you think? And so we needed to use some connections from the community as part of like validation, but I wouldn't say it was a huge part of it, but we learned quite a lot about this space, about what's top of mind for people,
00:48:28
Speaker
So one on one, it was definitely like a place from which we kept learning on a regular basis. There was like a learning through osmosis happening by interacting with these people because these are the people whose problems you're trying to solve. And for us to write the right kind of content and
00:48:47
Speaker
Like it's also created so much content for us in the company. I actually write a series of tips on customer onboarding. I've done it like every Sunday for the last 15 Sundays and I can keep going because there's like infinite resources coming my way from the community.
00:49:02
Speaker
Yeah, every workshop or meetup, there would be questions people would be asking and those questions then become a content for you. Like answering those questions becomes a source of content for you. Got it. Amazing. And which also would mean that your customer acquisition doesn't need to be through performance marketing or ads on Google, Facebook, but you already have this community for whom you're building and they would become the early adopters.
00:49:27
Speaker
Yes. I mean, we kept it as a no-sell zone for now. So we don't approach people over there and say, hey, do you want to try Rocket Lane? But I think people notice, right? So they know that, oh, Rocket Lane is a company that's running this. What is Rocket Lane? So it's a long year. It's not about getting our leads from day one from the community, but we believe
00:49:49
Speaker
When people are in the market for something, they will think of us. So when did you launch the product? June 23, 2021 was our launch. We made a product hunt launch plus our PR of our seed round on the same day, sort of played into each other as well in a way and we were number one on product hunt that day. So it turned out to be a very strong launch for us.
00:50:14
Speaker
And how much did you raise in the seed round? 3 million. Okay. Like what kind of investors? Nixest and Matrix Partners were out early backwards, but there was a group of other engines as well that we brought in. So this is by virtue of the network you would have built during the Freshworks days? I think not missing network, but at that time, but I think Girish has talked about the fresh chat story and different places and in general, people
00:50:41
Speaker
People knew us as a team because we had one exit before, and we had a successful stringed-in type of wishworks. So people knew us. Of course, Matrix, the partner, also happens to be a batchmate from IAM Bangalore, who was like, hey, we should have invested in you last time. We've restored. This time, we do want to test the real partner with you.
00:51:01
Speaker
Okay, got it. So tell me about the numbers. So June 21, the product got launched and how many customers did you onboard or how many seats did you have? Like month on month, how did it number grow? What is it today? We haven't necessarily shared these numbers outside, but I can give you a flavor of this. I think it's been
00:51:28
Speaker
Pretty amazing fraction for the first like in the first two months we made we got so many customers that first two months we got
00:51:38
Speaker
30 paying customers. And that's not an easy thing to do. How many seats? Each one would be like 5, 7 seats or like average? Yeah, I would say average would have been like probably close to 10 seats. But we did have like a couple of customers. One had 300, one had 150.
00:52:00
Speaker
170, et cetera, as well in those first two months itself. So there's a few large ones in there who came in at the same time. The funniest thing is one of them
00:52:10
Speaker
When they signed up, it was with a Gmail ID. Usually, when we see leads with Gmail IDs, salespeople are like, no, no, we should only collect business IDs. Why are we collecting Gmail IDs? We want a gauge. When I say our salespeople, I don't mean my sales team now, but from what I've seen at Freshworks as well, that turned out to be one of our biggest deals. It's actually probably our biggest one right now.
00:52:35
Speaker
And these are SaaS companies right now. You've not yet started doing that service company layer. We do have the one-off management consulting company and marketing agency and so on.
00:52:51
Speaker
But I would say probably 96, 97%, there's going to be. OK. And any numbers you can share, what you'll close this year at? How many seats would you have? Or what's your target for next year? How many licenses? Not yet sharing, but we have, I think, very ambitious on that front. And we have very strong momentum already. So it's the... What's your month-to-month growth? The last...
00:53:19
Speaker
couple of months, last three months, I think we averaged upwards of 30% growth month on month, and it's on a significant base already. So it's been growing. And what's your target? Like how many seats you want, like say end of this financial year or end of next financial year? Anything that you have in mind as a milestone you want to hit? I think like a good significant milestone to hit may be
00:53:49
Speaker
to get to like, I would say, if the averaging, let's say 10, then maybe like 5,500 customers will be like the next mile. I don't know about the when it could happen within the year, it could happen later, but that'll be like a 5,000 seats of people using us will be a significant milestone for us.
00:54:10
Speaker
Okay, so what's your thought in terms of like which is gonna be a bigger market for you in the long run like the the SAS companies who are onboarding or The service companies who are using it for project management. You asked me today it has to be the service companies But then SAS is going in such a way that we can't tell maybe maybe to be a substantial part as well and because our messaging is optimized for that today and
00:54:37
Speaker
we may continue to have a bigger pie in that, but if you just purely market size services, it's bigger. You're right that to really tap that it's a much bigger market and to really tap it, you may need to have an alternate
00:54:58
Speaker
brand name or something to get them in and have a different strategy for that segment because they may not feel that this is the product for me by looking at a product which is talking to SaaS companies and maybe you'd need like a completely different type of communication for them. Maybe even your onboarding would need to be less manual. Like right now your onboarding has a, it's a high touch onboarding, right?
00:55:23
Speaker
Like that also, maybe you would need to, like, is that something in your roadmap to do that? Yes. So we do have plans of how to like redo our website and messaging so that people know that there is Rocketland for onboarding for SaaS. There is Rocketland for marketing agencies. There is Rocketland for consulting companies, like the solution-based approach to our marketing. So that's something that we will do.
00:55:49
Speaker
And also, as you said, we actually opened up the product for people to sign up and start using it on their own in a couple of weeks ago. So when we did our most recent funding announcement, I don't know if you saw the rap video that we put out as well with it.
00:56:06
Speaker
It has over 120,000 views now and it's growing. But we sort of did this fun thing to grab attention of people, but it came on TV in the US and so on. So it's been exciting for us. But it's about when we did this also, we also made sure that people can sign up and start using the product on their own. And we then identify which ones need help and we sort of like do a more high touch onboarding for certain customers, but not all of them need.
00:56:36
Speaker
that sort of high-touch hummus. So when you say you open it up for self-service, like you're saying you gave them like a 15-day trial or? That's what I said. Okay. Yes. Okay. Got it. Okay. Did you rap in this rap video? What was this rap video about? I did not, but we have a content marketer who sort of told the story of Rocket Young so far. Okay. Okay. Amazing. Okay.
00:57:02
Speaker
Yeah, I guess your approach is like a content first approach to get customers like content and community rather than the traditional approach of performance marketing. Do you spend anything on performance marketing? We do. We have started some experiments because I think from a predictability angle, it's a good thing to have that working. It's also a drug, so we don't want to rely on it. But at the same time, I think, yeah, we definitely
00:57:29
Speaker
very content oriented as a team, brand and content, I would say. And we want to be seen as the thought leader of the space because we have the opportunity to be a true global leader, which is like, it's not easy to have that happen for you. And we actually, I don't know how long it usually takes people, but for us, we became a leader in G2 in the category of client onboarding within our first six months of launch. And I think that's like a significant shot of milestone at the SaaS company.
00:57:57
Speaker
Are there competitors like someone who's doing what you're doing? Yeah, there are a few people who are also doing similar, but as you would expect in any new category, it's not apples to apples. So there are similarities, but there's also differences in approach. I would say our biggest USP is how
00:58:15
Speaker
holistic this it puts everything together in one experience it's a very unified experience driven approach and it's probably the most robust solution out there given the breadth and depth that we've gotten to in a quick time.
00:58:31
Speaker
Do you have any big competitors or are they all like early stage? All early stage. Okay. Okay. Okay. Got it. Okay. And so I want to understand how SaaS companies figure out pricing. Like do you have a pricing of $49? How did you figure out that? Okay. Let's, let's price it at this.
00:58:51
Speaker
Yeah, I think one is you've seen what people are comfortable paying for like software like this from the Freshworks journey. We're not necessarily pigging it to ROI in like a way in which you want to extract the most out of a customer today. More taken an approach, it needs to be an easy decision for someone to buy.
00:59:08
Speaker
We've also looked at what others are doing in the space in adjacent space. Like if you look at Asana, how is Asana charging? And we're better than Asana for this use case, so we can charge a little more, right? Remote purpose built. So that's one more thing we looked at. And I know we're probably leaving some value on the table today, but that's okay. We're optimizing for momentum right now rather than like specific dollar numbers and maximizing what we get from customers.
00:59:34
Speaker
Okay, but Asana is like maybe one third or one fourth of what you are charging, right? Not really. I mean, for each of the tiers, it could be for one tier, it may be half, but the other one, maybe we are charging $20 more, et cetera, right? So it's sort of in the ballpark. And yeah, I think, but we can show a 10X better experience than Asana for their customers. So that's
00:59:57
Speaker
like an important thing for us to say, okay, we are better, let's charge more. Right. And how do you treat a discounting? And again, I'm talking as advice for a SaaS founder on how to look at discounting. Should one give discounts for volume deals or should it be just a flat transparent pricing and this is it, take it or leave it?
01:00:21
Speaker
I think I'm going to share some secrets from our side of this question, addressing discounting. I think early days, it's okay to discount, definitely. I would also say, depending on the market, so we are a pretty popular team in India. A lot of people know us because I've been a volunteer on this whole SaaS boogie thing and so on.
01:00:41
Speaker
So people know us and check us out. And we know that India pricing may need discounts from time to time. And very early stage companies, if you have bootstrapped and so on, we will offer discounts over there as well. So we made it like, do you qualify for a discount or not? Has some conditions. Like FreshBooks has a startup plan where they offer discounts to startups.
01:01:04
Speaker
Correct. I mean, they give like three credits. We don't do that. But we make it a low-brainer for an early-day startup to say, okay, I want to buy Rocket Lane for a year. It should be like an easy decision for that. That we do. And for those who are funded and so on, if they're buying a huge number of licenses, we do give them benefits of that volume. And we want to make them also feel like they're like,
01:01:28
Speaker
especially as early customers, that they're taking a bet on us and they're giving them something back in return. But the one condition I usually have, and this is what I was talking about as a street credit, is if you're giving a discount, you need to take something back from the customer. It could be that they're giving you a longer term, they're looking for a discount. It needs to be necessarily at least annual, but guess what? If you can lock them in for two years, even better. If you're giving a discount, I need a video testimonial from them.
01:01:58
Speaker
They need to support you with like doing ref checks with other customers. So you like the product, you're buying it. Now they're helping you to make it fit your budget. You need to help us in return with some other things.
01:02:12
Speaker
If you like the Found Atheism podcast, then do check out our other shows on subjects like Marketing, Technology, Career Advice, Books and Drama. Visit the podium.in for a complete list of all our shows.
01:02:33
Speaker
Before we end the episode, I want to share a bit about my journey as a podcaster. I started podcasting in 2020 and in the last two years, I've had the opportunity to interview more than 250 founders who are shaping India's future across sectors. If you also want to speak to the best minds in your field and build an enviable network, then you must consider becoming a podcaster.
01:02:57
Speaker
And the first step to becoming a podcaster starts with Zencaster, which takes care of all the nuts and bolts of podcasting, from remote recording to editing to distribution and finally monetization. If you are planning to check out the platform, then please show your support for the founder thesis podcast by using this link zen.ai founder thesis. That's zen.ai founder thesis.