Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Higher wisdom, Intimacy + Genesis 3 w/ Brandi Haskins
109 Plays20 days ago
This the second episode of The Deep series and we are talking through Genesis 1 it’s references to the deep, to spiritual wisdom and to living with an awareness and reverence for the Unseen realm. This episode is packed full of wisdom and deep thoughts in conversation with Brandi Haskins, a teacher and a student of the Word. Margaux and Brandi explore fact vs. Higher truth, giving weight to our spiritually discerning faculties and the fact that God is Spirit- and God created all things. So the physical realm that we experience came FROM the Spirit… spirit births physical.
In Genesis 3 Eve saw that the forbidden tree was “ desirable for gaining wisdom”. But this is not wisdom as we think of it. Brandi reads it as “knowledge that Adam and Eve were not meant to have.”
Other favorite quotes from the Episode:
“The first thing they notices was a physical thing, they didn’t notice a spiritual thing… It says they were ashamed but the FIRST thing they noticed was that they were naked.”
“The highest form of truth is the Spiritual.”
“The spiritual is higher truth, and my problems aren’t going to be solved in the physical realm”
“When you are in fear, you are far from divine wisdom .”
We are going TOGETHER: BREATHING UNDERWATER MEMBERSHIPS
Join the Community and Newsletter: HERE
Email: margaux@permissiontoreign.com
Instagram: @permission_to_reign
Intro Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay
Image by Claire Fischer from Unsplash
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Breathing Underwater'
00:00:00
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to Breathing Underwater. You are listening to a Summer Remix episode. We were designed to hunger for the deep things of God, to thrive on faith and wonder, to seek out divine wisdom that defies human logic.
00:00:15
Speaker
We were designed to unlock the mysteries of God. this is Breathing Breathing Underwater.
Introduction to Brandy Haskins
00:00:33
Speaker
Hello, I am here with my friend Brandy Haskins. I just heard like an applause track in the background, you know, like they would use on a radio show. Because that's what I would give to you. She's sitting on my couch, sitting across from me because I have invited her to come to speak to us today. We're going to have a conversation about spiritual wisdom, the unseen realm, essentially.
00:00:57
Speaker
I met Brandy at a conference and we both go to the same church. She is very wise and well-spoken and is writing a book. Sorry, I just put you out there.
00:01:09
Speaker
It's happening. um But she right now is also leading a Bible study on the book of Genesis that I'm a part of that is so amazing, which is a part of what sparked me to bring her on the podcast.
00:01:21
Speaker
I love Brandy. I'm just so happy to have her here. Will you just tell us about yourself, anything you want to tell us that you think is poignant right
Brandy's Journey: Marriage, Careers, and Ministry
00:01:30
Speaker
now? Because I can brag on you more, but just how would the listeners get to know you that you think is in an important way today? Well, first of all, thank you for having me. It's such an honor.
00:01:40
Speaker
I'm a phenomenally happily married woman. We've been married for 21 years. We have three young children because we were infertile for 12 years of our marriage. Wow.
00:01:52
Speaker
And then God came through on promises. um And because we were infertile for so long, we got to do a lot of things early in marriage, like I have three degrees and then I got to go to ministry school. Um, I got to teach for 10 years, which I loved. And then I got to become an attorney and advocate.
00:02:13
Speaker
And I loved that. Um, but I think I always knew it was leading to a life of ministry. and And I, I actually think that ministry and life go hand in hand. It's not like one or the other, but I also always knew I'd be public speaking and teaching. Um, I was that girl like at slumber parties when you're a little kid, like I can see it, chesy pulling out the Bible and teaching people probably bad theology at the time, but I was, I was so earnest. Um, I know bless those people. Um, and so, uh,
00:02:50
Speaker
I just, it even though it seems like my, my past has all these different roads, it they all lead towards like the fulfillment of kind of what I was made for. And my husband, similarly, he's done multiple, he has multiple degrees, multiple jobs. And it's interesting because we're starting to see it come together for him also into what he was designed and made for. And when it, when it just happened and I,
00:03:16
Speaker
i'm I'm really thankful that didn't happen when I was younger because when I was younger, I was i was real graspy, real graspy. Like, i the only thing I knew was that I had to work for things and I was a good worker. So... and i could see that. Yeah, but then...
00:03:32
Speaker
You mellow out in your forty s And um it's not ah really most everything I haven't worked for, most everything it's been given to me. Now, i I do my very best to steward it well, but it's definitely not something that I grip.
00:03:48
Speaker
I don't have the grip holding tight. To the ministry calling. To the ministry. To the calling. To the. um To my. Even what I think my plan is. Or what I would like it to be. Or. Yeah.
00:04:02
Speaker
yeah It's just. It's just far more. Relational and fluid. Instead of.
00:04:10
Speaker
Instead of just rigid. Yep. I think, I think, I think there's great, great reasons to follow through with a plan.
Wisdom and Continuous Learning in Faith
00:04:17
Speaker
I don't think plans are bad, but in my case, they were definitely a crutch.
00:04:23
Speaker
Crutch. Yeah. Interesting. Definitely like a, I'm going to prove my way. I'm going to do it. well Well, I'm going to be the best at everything. Not because i wanted to be better at anyone that at it than anyone else, but because I didn't have value if I wasn't the best in my own eyes. Right. Right. Right. Own worst critic moment. Oh, yeah.
00:04:42
Speaker
Well, I mean, it's really evident that you have a teaching gift and like a gift to to speak and orate and you have such presence and conviction in what you know and what you study. But I also, one of the things I love about you is there's ah just a radical humility as well. of Like i'm I'm always a student. I don't have this fully handled. um Will you share a little bit? Because we are going to get into the word here in a minute. And we're going to talk concepts and theology and imagery and Hebrew and all the things. what What has your experience been in studying the word or school or language or or any of that? Okay, so um my bachelor's was in education. My master's was in humanities. Lots of reading world texts all over. I wrote my thesis on Russian literature. so um And then we lived in Israel.
00:05:29
Speaker
um I did a study abroad project there. My husband lived there twice. He and he studies Hebrew. um I have my JD in law and then um and my husband, his he's always had a background on Jewish roots of Christian faith. We got married under a hoopa, which is a i love it a Jewish canopy. Yes. And we served in the Jewish community, the Messianic Jewish community for four years right after we got married. When you. were in Israel or no actually in Dallas Texas there's a beautiful messianic synagogue out there and and i the God God was just so great he put us in charge of the bar and bat mitzvah program for four years which is whoa insane um and so we got a curriculum and do do that um with such sweet people with the hearts for the Lord but they also have a lot of knowledge of the Old Testament which I've always been attracted to like people say are you an Old Testament or a New Testament girl okay let me tell you
00:06:25
Speaker
Jesus is. Okay. But my, my favorite way to read about him is Old Testament, not New Testament. Right. It's just, I could just lose myself in the Old Testament. And it's always been that way. So, um, I got saved when I was five, but my family didn't, uh, didn't really go to church. For some reason we were going to a Bible church for just like, I think about six months, maybe a year. I don't remember, but I was real young And they had an after school, after church program called Juana's and you know juna you learn scripture. And the first scripture I memorized was John three 16.
00:07:01
Speaker
And for God to love the world that he gave his only son that whosoever believeth in him would not perish, but have everlasting life. And, when I memorized it, I knew that I knew that I knew it was truth.
00:07:13
Speaker
And so I asked Jesus into my heart. I asked to be baptized and I asked for a Bible and we left the church. And so I wasn't raised in the church, but I was raised with a Bible. And, um,
00:07:26
Speaker
I'm a student. So all that to say, everything that I've learned, I'm still learning. I'm definitely not an expert in any any way, but I'm also not scared of digging in. And I'm also not scared of getting it wrong because God, i think God honors the search and he he has the ability to like clarify things as we go. and But I never want to come off as like, like even when you do Bible studies, I'm always like, so this is where I land. However, always submit submit it to the Holy Spirit to see yeah Let him him correct. Let him guide. Let him even redirect it because we're all on this journey of discovering him. And honestly, that is the definition of wisdom. I mean, to submit everything to the Lord, like the fear of the Lord. heat That is the beginning of wisdom right there. So you are a wise woman. You're so fun. Proverbs 9, 10. I wrote that down. Boom. yes i said I did. i it's It's on my sheet. I wrote, today we're going to talk about wisdom.
Spiritual Wisdom vs Worldly Logic
00:08:20
Speaker
Oh, I'm so glad because that is really, really my heart for the podcast, but not just for the podcast, just what I feel called to speak about and teach about and cultivate is wisdom that comes from God. Because it is not worldly wisdom. It is not fleshly wisdom. It is wisdom that is revealed by the Spirit.
00:08:39
Speaker
Absolutely. I think I'm just going to say this, please. I think sometimes wisdom is better received um through different voices. And I think you have a good voice and demeanor to, so to share wisdom because although you carry a lot of wisdom, it, you're not unapproachable and your voice is so inviting.
00:09:03
Speaker
So I think you're on the right track, girl. Keep going. Thanks, Brandy. Brandy always compliments my voice. She has me read scripture aloud in our group. I do. but Margo, could you read? Which is really, really fun, actually. um So we're going to we're going to touch on, I mean, I have questions, but I really want to let you roll with this as well.
00:09:22
Speaker
I want to give a tiny bit of background why this even matters to me. um Doing this Genesis Bible study is like God's gift to me. And Brandy invited me. And it was an invite only kind of thing. And she's like, listen, Margo, it's going to be hardcore. We're going to do two and a half hours every Monday night and there's going to be homework. Like, are you ready for this? You can just imagine her with her, the way she talks. And I was like, bring it because I was born for this.
00:09:47
Speaker
But back in, I guess it was right before Christmas and into the new year, God had brought me back into Genesis. And Genesis, especially one, two, and three have always been kind of a magnet for me, really prophetically and with a lot of prophetic imagery, which is a lot of how God speaks to me through scripture. So I love to study the root words and I love to study like context and what the author was actually saying. And God uses scripture often really prophetically for my life and parallels and stuff that's going on in in my personal life. And it was right at the beginning of the year, i was about to launch into the podcast and I was praying about a name. And I had a dream, another dream.
00:10:27
Speaker
about being at the bottom of the ocean and I'm walking around down there and I'm picking stuff up and I have a lot of dreams where I'm at the bottom of the sea or the bottom of a lake or something along those lines and I'm always breathing. It's like at the beginning of the dream, I'm like, I'm holding my breath. And then I'm like, what am I doing that for? And I just start breathing and I walk around and do things.
00:10:44
Speaker
And at the end of this dream, when I woke up, I remember God saying, you were made for family and you were made for the deep and you just stay there. And I thought, okay, God, I'll stay in the deep. What do what do you mean? And really he's just talking about being,
00:11:03
Speaker
Submersed in the the deep things of God, meaning the mysteries of God, the ancient wisdom that we find in scripture, walking with the Holy Spirit in the deep things, not being afraid to ask questions and be in the mysteries and stay in that space. But also teaching on the language of the unseen. It really is like learning.
00:11:24
Speaker
It is like learning another language. And it is learning to breathe underwater in a sense because it's just... um It's a capacity you don't know you have until you spend a lot of time there. So all of that to say, when he brought up that I was born to be in the deep, I i just kept thinking breathing underwater. That's what I do in these dreams. That's got to be the name. And in that same, it was couple days that I was processing this, he brought me back to Genesis 1. And just had me at the very beginning of the creation story where in the beginning, you know, was God and just the imagery of him hovering over the waters and hovering over the deep and the void and the deep and the waters and the deep. And there's just the deep is spoken about so often, i guess, depending on your translation that used that word being used.
00:12:10
Speaker
But he was just really illustrating. The deep is actually where we've come from. The deep is actually more real and first. And, you know, we can we can spend so much time trying to convince people that the unseen realm is real. But it's ridiculous because it was, it's so real and it's literally what birthed the natural realm, the actual physical realm was birthed from the unseen realm, that it was just his kindness in this moment to be like, you can do this. This is where you live. This is actually the most ancient place for all humanity. Like people, we we came from this place, from the unseen, like the deep is the beginning. And so let's just
00:12:57
Speaker
be a part of bringing that back into everyday language, everyday life. So because of that, coming into the Genesis class and especially Genesis 1, when you're having us read through the creation story and the different Hebrew words and what they mean and you're making these correlations, I was literally like,
00:13:19
Speaker
my jaw was hanging open and I was salivating. I'm like, this is such fascinating imagery because I love the idea of the unseen and that whole birthing process and our origin.
Exploring Genesis: Unseen Realms and Spiritual Language
00:13:32
Speaker
And there's so much imagery in this that like you, I believe is literal, but there's a lot of different ideas and interpretations on that. So what I wanted to do was really just have a conversation around the unseen realm, the deep. Let's talk about what some of these words mean. What do you believe about this?
00:13:52
Speaker
Yeah. There. Well, okay. So a few things I wanted to say. Can I comment on what you said? Please comment on it. And I didn't even say it like I really wanted to say it, but close enough. i Go for it. and So you said it's like learning a new language. I would propose that it's actually unlearning.
00:14:07
Speaker
Unlearning. It's actually unlearning because... um
00:14:12
Speaker
So
00:14:15
Speaker
we take on a lot of like habits and knowledge and practices throughout life and that aren't necessarily from God, but we make them, so we cling to them so deeply that it,
00:14:32
Speaker
It skews our view. and it I, okay, it skews the way we see and it skews the way we hear. And so when I approach scripture, I always ask God for eyes to see and ears to hear because we are conditioned to want to know. we are conditioned to want answers. Yep.
00:14:55
Speaker
But in my experience with God, For every answer I receive, probably 10, 20 questions. More questions, yeah. Right. um And so if if my goal is to
00:15:13
Speaker
understand what Genesis one, two, and three are about, then in, in my understanding, I've missed, I've missed the mark. Um, my goal is to understand. My goal is, I don't know if understand right word, but my goal is to seek the face of the father and humbly come before him and look for his treasures.
00:15:34
Speaker
Um, you know, i want to be a friend of God. Um,
00:15:40
Speaker
like Moses was called a friend of God, but not because he had all the answers. Um, he walked in obedience and he talked with God. He remained humble. And I mean, when he misinterpreted it and he did things wrong and he, there was a consequence, like Moses took it.
00:15:59
Speaker
Um, he understood a relationship with God that we commonly do. And so The idea, particularly when we go back to like Genesis 1, 2, and 3, it's this idea instead of like learning a new language. For me, it's like unlearning a lot and just laying bare before the Lord and saying, okay, what is this? And I mean, Genesis is such a hot topic because you have more than one religion that reads it and abides it by Holy Scripture. True, true.
00:16:29
Speaker
and you have a lot of ancient extra biblical texts that um can play the way, that can can like inform the way that you read it. um And then you have modern theologies. You have like you you can read Genesis as like a thematic thing. There's a whole, you can you can down go down the whole road of like everything in gene everything in the Bible is thematic. God's repeating a story over and over again. Here's where it goes. I mean, you can approach Genesis as this is scientific fact and God wrote it as science. You can approach Genesis as absolutely not scientific fact and God was actually just more or less letting you know his heart for humanity. You can go down Genesis and think like, well, these are all just archetypal
00:17:15
Speaker
images like they're not even like there isn't a real adam there isn't a real eve um and i will say this is part of where god's used my like my education background is i've had i've been in rooms with lots of important people with people that make decisions for our country and um i mean i used to clerk for the federal courts i um
00:17:38
Speaker
And my experience was wonderful. It was absolutely wonderful. But when you're in the academic field, you're in you're in a room with a lot of people that are very intelligent, but I'm not sure wisdom is the voice they're listening to. And you get a lot of that surrounding Genesis. A lot of people want to nail it down and make it comfortable for them and be able to explain it. And that's just not where I think the deep is. Yep.
00:18:06
Speaker
i think the deep is in being able to hold the tension of. I don't know. Lord, what are you saying here? Yes. and The mystery. that Are you really saying that? If you're saying that, what does the rest mean? like Yes.
00:18:20
Speaker
yeah I love it. And i just want to I just want to clarify something I just said because I think it's important to delineate. When I was talking about learning the new language, I meant more in the realm of learning unseen communication versus scripture. got it. and But it goes in tandem with what you were saying because similarly, when you were talking about kind of unlearning, especially to approach scripture because we have all of our...
00:18:48
Speaker
We have all of our lenses and all of our thoughts of what we think and our own context, which is very different than the context of absolutely right who this was written for and who wrote this. um So we do have to unlearn that kind of stuff. But I would even say that applies to how I was intending that.
00:19:04
Speaker
Because we are, i don't know if this is like a Western thing or, you know, we talk about Greek mindset or if this is um just a human nature thing, but we are literally schooled to exercise logic and trusting what we can see and what we can touch. And if we can't measure it and prove it, then it's probably not true. Right. Which is, of course. 100%.
00:19:30
Speaker
That's how we are taught. So we're grown up we're growing up, and if we don't have people or places inviting us in to learn how to strengthen the the faculties that are our senses and are learning to hear the voice of God and is is paying able to pay attention to the unseen. If we're not exercising those muscles in the unseen like we do with the seen,
00:19:57
Speaker
then it is learning a new language or or letting those faculties have weight. And the unseen realm is primarily sensed.
00:20:07
Speaker
Some people might see it with the naked eye, but you know we're seeing it often with the spiritual eye or we're feeling it yeah or we have that inner knowing like our spirit picking it up.
The Shift from Divine Relationship to Physical Awareness
00:20:18
Speaker
um Some people probably physically discern, absolutely. But it's something that happens sometimes A with the receiving of the Holy Spirit or the baptism of the Holy Spirit also amplifies that or a particular gift of discernment.
00:20:31
Speaker
But I think that all humans have the capacity to operate in. Well, God says that he put the not the knowledge of himself in all men. Yeah. So yeah whether like.
00:20:44
Speaker
I'm not sure if. Yes, I agree with what you're saying. I think, so when you said a minute ago, you said something about and logic and knowledge. So when we when we're in Genesis 3 and we talk about Adam and Eve, and that when, I think it's like 3, 6, when Eve says that she saw the tree and it was it was it was good but it was good for making her wise that word is not wise that we think that's what we translate it but it's not wisdom because think about it this way God says that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom well
00:21:20
Speaker
Eve wasn't fearing God. She actually was going against God. and And so what is that word then? If it's not wisdom, it's ah so it's kind of hard to translate. It's an, it's kind of if you look it up, if you go back into the Hebrew, they will say that that particular word, it's that word to use multiple times in scripture, but where it's used there in a few other places, it's kind of hard to discern the exact meaning the way I read it after not just alone, but with,
00:21:50
Speaker
all my scripture reading, the way that I read that is it was knowledge that Adam and Eve were not meant to have.
00:22:02
Speaker
So that's a modern way of saying that. It's like, there's lots of facts out there, but that we, we mess up when we think the facts equal truth. And when we, and when we think that we were made to know all the facts. Like and we, we don't even have the ability yet to discern in what order the facts are important. Like,
00:22:28
Speaker
in that moment, they, Adam and Eve were trading a wisdom or the beginning of wisdom for facts and logic. And, um, I do think God can speak in logic. I, I am not limiting God's ability to speak.
00:22:45
Speaker
I am saying that
00:22:50
Speaker
the path to God is not through fact. And if we try to, if we try to approach Genesis and like, this is a fact, we might get a little off course because we're not God.
00:23:04
Speaker
And to, and, and to think that he wrote it exactly one way and have only one dimension right to mean only one That's not the nature of God's word, period. Also to think that he doesn't mean what he says.
00:23:17
Speaker
is also air. Like you can't read scripture and think, well, he doesn't mean what he says. Like, oh no, be let's, let's come humbly before the throne. Like he, he's the author.
00:23:29
Speaker
we better ask his opinion. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So do you want to do Genesis one in the deep? I really do. But this just spurred another moment. No, I love it so much because it reminded me of what you said. And this is, this is really what I want. I just want to have a conversation about this today. So we, we might be jumping all over the place. Okay. Um, but just now when you were talking about the knowledge that we weren't meant to have, uh, a couple podcasts back, I guess seven now,
00:23:55
Speaker
I had had a really specific dream about the sacredness of dream interpretation and just knowing God's voice and keeping it holy in this place and how it had been burglarized by sorcery. So I... i love that language, burglarized by sorcery. argo Oh, I mean, that's... You have such good words. That came from my dream. It was the exact imagery that he gave me and used the picture and the word burglarized, which is why, yes because...
00:24:24
Speaker
God was naming the spirit that was behind this. yeah But thank you. um And in that, I felt the Lord drawing me again to this Adam and Eve story. And exactly like you just said, like there was this temptation in that moment for knowledge that was outside of relationship with God. Like they're walking with the source of all wisdom, literally in relationship with him right there, face-to-face oneness. Yeah.
00:24:49
Speaker
and there was this temptation to go after knowledge that was outside of relationship and the tendency in the world to go after information over intimacy and it just reminds me of what you just said yeah and also in our modern world it's
Discerning True Spiritual Guidance
00:25:06
Speaker
this idea that like so we were just on vacation we went up to a northern coastal town and um We had, we loved, when we go places, we love to just honor the people that are serving us. And so we had a waitress and we were asking her about herself and you' just honoring her. and And she started talking about the spirit.
00:25:27
Speaker
Well, the spirit led me here. The spirit um did this and did that. And the words sounded okay, but My internal Holy Spirit was saying, hey, listen closely. Just listen. Yeah. And I listened and I took it away and I was like, Lord, what what are you saying? And he reminded me that a couple years ago i was I was with him in a worship.
00:25:52
Speaker
um setting and ah he said, Brandy, look up the word holy. And so I started looking up the word holy and he goes, I'm like, look at look it all up, Lord? And he was like, yep, look at every one of them. So I looked up every occurrence I could find of holy and and and ah and he was like, now what do you see?
00:26:09
Speaker
Do some deduction here. What do you see? And I'm like listening everything I see, like all the characteristics, like what is, and he's like, still not there, keep going. And I'm like listening more, listening more. like And he was like, keep going, Brandy. And I'm like, what?
00:26:19
Speaker
on earth are you trying to tell me, Lord? And he was like, so the demonic or the satanic are never, that holy is not used with them ever. And I was like, oh. any So were talking to this waitress and afterwards i'm asking the Lord about it and he goes, remember what I taught you a couple years ago?
00:26:42
Speaker
Holy? What did she call the voice that was leading her? And I said, the spirit. And he goes, yeah. She didn't say the Holy Spirit. So I say that story in that we live in a culture that wants to be guided by spiritual things, but they don't want to.
00:27:02
Speaker
i don't know if wants they're.
00:27:06
Speaker
they're misguided in thinking that all spiritual things are good. Yeah. But just because it's true is, can you be guided by spirits? I 100% absolutely can. Can, uh, you engage with the spiritual realm through many forms and fashions? 100%. Absolutely. The problem is, is that God made a way to do it.
00:27:26
Speaker
And, and I think it's always important to note that there was more than one tree in the garden. um So often you see this these pictures of it Adam and an Eve and this one tree and a snake, like a boa constrictor going up a bit. And I don't think that's... Like the two trees, the knowledge of good and evil and then the tree of life. There's just the two. yeah yeah Yeah. I mean, there were tons of trees that were given for food, including the tree of life. right But just like in genealogies in scripture, not everyone's mentioned in the genealogies. Totally.
00:27:54
Speaker
Not every tree was mentioned of the Garden of Eden, but the two that were mentioned were significant. But we often always concentrate on the one. Yeah. Like when you see, like even like modern products like apple and they have the bite of the apple. All throughout the world, you see this like pull towards the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Yeah.
00:28:14
Speaker
I don't know all the reasons it was there. I don't even, I wouldn't even presume to think I know. um I do think it's super interesting that the scripture says that it was, it was good. it it was good There were good aspects to that tree. It wasn't this like
00:28:31
Speaker
evil looking thing. Like, and it also just wasn't like, oh, it's so delightful. She can't resist. Right. Like, it was aware that there was something not okay there. But what I think super interesting is
00:28:47
Speaker
the result of the fruit. Yes. Did their bodies begin to decay? Did the, did the cycle of death become permanent at that point? Yes. For, for most everybody. Right.
00:29:00
Speaker
But,
00:29:02
Speaker
their eyes were opened and what they saw was true. They weren't, it was true that they were naked, but God's response was, who told you that?
00:29:14
Speaker
Not because he didn't know who told it to him, but he's trying, I think he's trying to make Adam and Eve realize that wasn't your business. It was never your concern. That was my burden to carry, not yours. And in the midst of,
00:29:32
Speaker
In the midst of the exchange, they got fact. Yeah, they got fact. But that fact led them farther and farther away from the truth. That fact led them to, like it it literally lent lent them to the physical world. It's the first thing they noticed was a physical thing.
00:29:52
Speaker
They didn't notice a spiritual thing. They didn't notice their their disconnection with God. They didn't notice that um they felt, it says they they were ashamed, but the first thing it says is they noticed they were naked. naked did Immediately, art their eyes, their vision, their energy went to the physical realm. Wow.
00:30:14
Speaker
I am not a believer that we're supposed to dismiss the physical. God put us in physical beings. No, of course not. And it's delightful and there's purposes for him, but it's not the highest form of truth.
00:30:25
Speaker
The highest form is the spiritual. And when the farther away we get, like, that's what I mean
Valuing Spiritual Experiences in a Logical World
00:30:34
Speaker
by unlearning. Like we have to unlearn this idea that like, yep and it's so interesting that attacks on people often come in the physical form because they're such a distraction. When I physically suffer, it's hard.
00:30:51
Speaker
It's hard for me to get beyond my physicalness totally to get into the spiritual. The truth is that the spiritual is, I don't know if you would say more true, hi true yes higher true. higher true.
00:31:04
Speaker
And my problems are not going to be solved in the physical realm. Yes. You can't read Genesis and the creation story without recognizing the influence of the unseen and the spirit. 100%. This is before the actual physical is, that as we know it, is is created, right? And what you just named with the Adam and Eve and the transaction with the apple and the first thing they noticed being the physical, man, I feel the Holy Spirit on that so much. And I think one of the reasons this is so important is because those of us who are following Jesus, we have a relationship with the Holy Spirit.
00:31:41
Speaker
We're all learning to continue to discern things of the spirit and and what it means to see in the unseen. And I think there's probably a lot of people listening who are even new to operating in this gift or like my story where I was operating in it so long, but it was never named. It was never validated. It was totally pushed back on by a spirit of religion and doubt and honestly just... When I say when i say logic, I mean more like human logic because I 100% think God operates in logic. it's very It's very logical when we learn God's logic, you know but it isn't always just appealing to the linear left brain way of saying seeing things, which is a ah way that we're taught to see and deduce. So I guess in that, there are so there's so much coming against...
00:32:29
Speaker
us believing and trusting and learning to value and validate spiritual information in our own lives. Oh, that was probably just this. Oh, it was probably just physical. I probably just made that up. Oh, this thing is happening. It couldn't have a spiritual root. That's over spiritualizing it. And, and let me just say as a disclaimer, I understand there are people who over spiritualize things where, you know, it's a little bit much like they're putting meaning on something that isn't actually there, but.
00:32:58
Speaker
Everything is connected to the spirit. And so there are these phrases that I think we even pass around in church and mindsets about like, oh they're over spiritualizing that or oh, you know, we just that's too woo woo there too out there that is actually paying a disservice to those of us who are learning to operate and live and perceive this realm that was first that is a higher truth.
00:33:45
Speaker
Hey, if you like this podcast, don't forget to subscribe. You can do that on any of your favorite platforms so that you don't miss a show. And please give us a rating. That just helps more people get access to what we're doing here.