Transcript
Speaker: You are listening to the Inverted Creative Podcast. I'm Allison. I'm Jen. I'm Brian. I'm Mikhail. And I'm Nate.
Speaker: Well, hello, everybody.
Speaker: How's it going? i was like, that was a hello for you, not just a listen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's been a hot minute since we've done an interview, but ah I'm excited because we have a good friend of ours with us today who works at Anakista.
Speaker: Hello. Hello, Allison, Nate, and Mikhail. Excited to be here. Howdy. No, we're excited to have you on. I know you had brought up the possibility of coming on to the podcast a while ago, um I'm excited we can make it happen.
Speaker: Yeah, I think I've changed jobs since then, potentially even. I think so. But it worked out, I think, even better, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. No, i I am really enjoying my current job. And I think it's ah it lends itself to this topic pretty well.
Speaker: Especially like when you sent your job description. I'm like, oh, OK. Hello. Yeah. No, it's pretty cool. um So to preface, Mikhail and Nate, have you been to Anakista? Yes, I have. i have OK.
Speaker: so this I thought it was pretty awesome when I visited I will say it's like yeah it's very it's very pretty it's up in a nice area. um i the truck to get up there is kind of interesting like the ride that you take on the truck to get up there.
Speaker: Yeah. was When did you visit? when alice I visited November of around Thanksgiving of 2023. And it was very like, not just Anakista, but like Gatlinburg was really crowded.
Speaker: But like, other than that, like, yeah. Other than that, like Anakista was was awesome. So I got to ride both. um hellbender and uh railrunner and railrunner was terrifying as i would hope hoped it would be and then hellbender was pretty cool as well so yeah railrunner's popular ah among enthusiasts for sure there have been quite a few changes because i think 23 hellbender had just opened right it was fair it was pretty new 23 yeah yeah and uh now we have the new gondola that just opened in may
Speaker: ah And Allison, you were you went a little bit more recently. Is that right? No. When did you say you went? You went before me because I have Instagram messages with Allison asking her about it.
Speaker: Okay. Because I wasn't sure how like all that worked. So I was trying to figure out information about Rail Runner and Hellbender. Early November 23. Yeah. yeah Okay. So she went like around the same time.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, no, that's yeah it's changed a lot since then. um I mean, we're in the middle of kind of ah a really big expansion, especially with the new gondola.
Speaker: So if if you guys are down in the area, I can take you up there. That would be awesome. Yeah. I guess one of my big memories for Anakista was we took Javi there. Yeah.
Speaker: Who notoriously hates heights. That's right. We did like the the chair to go up to the top of the mountain, which he hated that. And then we went up to the top of the tree observation deck thing.
Speaker: And he hated that. Yeah, the the big tower in the in the park. yeah Yeah, it's got the glass floors on it too. Yeah, he did not go on the glass floors. Would not even stand on it.
Speaker: Yeah, that that sounds about right for Javi. ah So... but the before we Before we go too deep into it, um for like for myself having having not been, and I don't know how well visited it is amongst people who would be listening to this podcast as well,
Speaker: you Why don't you give sort of like a description of how Anakista is different from your stereotypical, not stereotypical, um conventional theme park and I guess what it's most known for?
Speaker: Yeah. Um, yeah, I guess I can give kind of high level overview of, of what the park is. Uh, you know, talking about Nate and Allison's visit, yeah Nate mentioned the trucks. Allison mentioned the chairlift.
Speaker: Um, it's, it's, a kind of classify it as like a family adventure park. Um, so it's, it's intended to kind of be a, um,
Speaker: you know something to do for people when they're visiting Gatlinburg and a space where you can kind of experience the the Smoky Mountains from from inside the city and in a way where there are other interactive elements and nice landscaping and everything ah around you.
Speaker: um So to get to Anakista, you need to to take one of our methods to get up, which right now we're doing the gondola and the trucks. So the chairlift, we switched out to a new high-speed gondola that just opened in May. And that's kind of the first project that I was really deeply involved with at Anakista.
Speaker: And it's a really cool ride system. You know, me being kind of the ride engineer, in-house ride engineer, got to know the system a lot. And it's a big improvement from the chairlift. The chairlift took like 20, 25 minutes to new gondola takes four minutes.
Speaker: Oh wow. So it's much, much faster. It's a lot easier to kind of get up and down the mountain. Uh, you know, especially if you just want to come up and have a meal or something like that. Um,
Speaker: It's the world's first all glass gondola, meaning ah all 56 of our cabins have a glass floor. And in the the sides are also all glass. It's really cool. You get this panoramic view of the Smokies and you can look straight down below you. Sometimes you see bears going up the gondola.
Speaker: he it even know don't Don't tell Javi that. I actually remember seeing a bear while waiting in line for...
Speaker: one of the coasters. I don't remember which one. Yeah. sorry about that too There, there are a lot of bears in the area. Yeah. ah and There's one of the questions asked about animals. So I, I'll probably do ah a deep dive on, on bears a little bit later, but, uh yeah we also have the trucks that's that's kind of the alternate method to get up uh so there's you can board a truck just right at the same uh place where the gondola terminal is and we'll drive you up the mountain uh it's kind of like a like a an army truck sort of deal uh the bed of the truck is a bunch of seats where we can fit we have different size trucks but like 20 to 30 guests and uh and drive them up the mountain but
Speaker: Before the trucks and the chairlift would take about the same time. Now the trucks take quite a bit longer than the gondola. And so we see a lot more utilization of the gondola as opposed to the trucks, which which is good to see. I think that's exactly kind of the point of why we why we built this new gondola.
Speaker: Yeah, give different ways of getting up there. Yep. different Anyway, you take you take the gondola up to the top um and you are kind of in the park at this point. ah A lot of people actually board the gondola, not realizing there's a theme park at the top. And so it's kind of a pleasant surprise when you get up and it's like, oh, wow, there's like restaurants and stores and rides and experiences up here.
Speaker: um And yeah, you're you're in the mountaintops. and We have that Vista Tower, which is kind of the best view you'll get of ah of the Smoky Mountains from the park. And there's little little informational signage placards on that tower that tell you what mountains what. So you can kind of identify the different mountains in the national park. You can, of course, also see downtown Gatlinburg from the tower.
Speaker: um we have two mountain coasters. So those are kind of the the main ride experiences that we have right now. ah The Hellbender, which is Wiegand mountain coaster, and Railrunner, which is the only single rail... ah Sorry, not the only single rail anymore. The only Brandauer SunKid single rail coaster in the US.
Speaker: There's ah another single rail that just opened in Virginia, like really a month or two ago. Yeah. oh But it's that's an M&B, it's a different manufacturer. Yeah.
Speaker: Plans of Tricks of Virginia mid-podcast. I will say Railrunner is probably the most terrifying coaster experience in my life. Yeah, it's it's quite intense. And despite me being very, like,
Speaker: yeah and despite me being very um like I don't anxious isn't the right word, but like riding it being like, oh my goodness, this thing is like incredibly wild.
Speaker: I managed to keep my brake like released the whole time. Yeah. all the way down oh I really thought if any mountain coaster was going to make me like brake on it, it was going to be that one Yeah, I probably rode it four or five times before I could get myself to go. No brakes until the very end, of course.
Speaker: That one turn. Oh my gosh. I thought I was going to fly off. Yeah. It goes, it feels very fast because the whole thing's right on the ground. It's very low to the ground. and You know, it's just you on this single rail ah going down. so there's not like a huge ride vehicle or anything around you. i think I think I've seen one of these in yeah like somewhere in Europe.
Speaker: um yeah Yeah, there's one. but There's one in Stockholm. Yeah, it might be it might it might be Sweden or sweden or Switzerland or so ah somewhere. I know those two countries are nowhere one near each other, but like somewhere like that, yeah.
Speaker: The one in Stockholm is really cool. You can see everything, but it's not nearly as fast or intense as the one. You can see Granolone from it. Funny enough, there's, I think, three in British Columbia, or one of them might be in Alberta.
Speaker: But a few of the ski resorts up there run single-rail mountain coasters during the summertime. terrifying i know there are i know there are mountain coasters um uh cypress mountain and and grouse mountain um nearby nearby i need to get to both of them so grass i believe is an adg uh revelstoke also has one and what's the other one red red deer is that what it's called red deer yeah yeah yeah they they have one as well
Speaker: um But yeah, no, sorry, Anakist. other than those two rides, we have the treetop skywalk. which is just a series of kind of these suspension bridges that take you through the tree canopy.
Speaker: um And there we have a few playground areas. So the biggest one Bird Venture, which is a huge playground. It's got seven slides that I worked on while I with Wiegand and a bunch of play elements, a bouncy net that you can jump on. and bird statues and theming and everything. It's super cool.
Speaker: ah We have the Treetop Village Adventure, which is kind of catered towards some of the more younger kids. We have Tree Venture, which has a couple climbing elements. And we have Bear Venture. It's It's a smaller playground, but it's kind of right along the pathway. So a lot of people can try out these like balancing logs and stuff as as they're just walking around.
Speaker: So we have kind of these adventure elements scattered throughout the park. um And then we have like a you know retail stores, food, live entertainment.
Speaker: but A lot of the typical stuff you'd see at like a theme park just with not not quite as many rides as you'd see at like Dollywood or something like that. through
Speaker: I thoroughly enjoyed my visit there. I feel like we weren't there for super long. um I know we did the like the hanging bridges treetop thing. Yeah. That was partially closed or or closed part of the day because of bears.
Speaker: Oh, great. um But yeah, they opened it back up later. Cool. Yeah, no, i I honestly think the treetop skywalk is kind of the thing to do at Anakista. For enthusiasts, a lot of people go up for the coasters, but but there's a lot more that the park has to offer that's yeah not necessarily coasters, but very cool and unique experiences.
Speaker: like I will say coasters are the reason that we went up there, but it was fun to explore and see what else there was. I feel like something had just opened... before we got there. Maybe I'm just thinking Hellbender, but. Hellbender would have just opened. that i don't know. i i wasn't with the park at that point, but that village, Stone Village area, might have just opened along with the coaster.
Speaker: Yeah. There was something that was somewhat new being advertised besides Hellbender, and I i think it was probably that when I went, which was right after Alice. Yeah.
Speaker: Yep. Yeah, um Hellbender opened in October of 23. So like, yeah, right before either of us went. allison Yeah, still fresh.
Speaker: And I guess for context, I worked for Wiegand for three years, the mountain coaster manufacturer. So I was involved. I started at Anakista really recently, January of this year, 2026.
Speaker: But i've been i've been involved with yeah no I've been involved with the Hellbender project in 2023 with Anakista from the manufacturer. and And I was also involved with the Bird Venture project, the slides in that area when I was with Weekend as well.
Speaker: Well, jumping off of that, you want to us about your role at Anakista? I know you have kind of many hats and play many parts in there. Yeah, um I think site design engineer is kind of the best job title that describes what I do.
Speaker: um i I guess if you guys are familiar or if the listeners are familiar with Civil 3D, it's kind of a specialized version of AutoCAD that lets you do like terrain-based design um and like overall site design, designing and around infrastructure and that kind of thing. That's my main program that I work in. So um i basically decide how we fit like paths and rides. and and buildings and different elements of the park together on the mountain with respect to kind of the the bigger overall site plan. So, you know, I may not be as involved in like designing a single building, but I would be involved in like designing the path to that building or does deciding where that building goes in relation to to the other buildings.
Speaker: and And, you know, coming from Weekend, I kind of specialize and in the ride side of that um and operations and logistics. So when it comes to if we were to design like a mountain coaster, for instance, then then I'd be be involved in helping figure out where on the park we could put that and, you know, the different infrastructure that that needs to go in in order to to make that work.
Speaker: Does it ever feel like roller coaster tycoon laying pathways down? uh it it can at times i mean it's it's much more complicated than that kind of like like you might expect but but i would hope it's a very cool job in that sense of of it's like the the answer to that is almost yes like that's that is kind of what i do is it um 3d and 2d know autocad is just 2d but ah Yeah, Civil 3D has 3D functionality. three d Yeah, but it's a lot of the stuff I do in 2D. To be fair, it's kind of like that bird eye. Yeah. The 3D functionality comes in when you're working with like contour lines and alignments. Right, like plan view is like 2D projection. projections yep
Speaker: Yep. And I guess to kind of give a little bit of context, I don't want to go too long on this, but like we have a few different ah teams that that go into designing the park. I'm on the design team. We work directly with the general contractor who's, they're kind of an in-house entity. We do a lot of stuff in-house.
Speaker: ah But our team coordinates between you know deciding what ownership wants to build next as part of the park and actually getting that built. So ah there's me. I do the site design. We have an architect on our team. And then we have like an interior designer.
Speaker: And a lot of our stuff has to do with more infrastructure, logistical stuff. The creative team would be involved with the theming and kind of the lore of Anakista's story of tying everything together. And they'd work with the marketing team as well to to i to message that, I guess, out to to people on the website, whether that's through the park maps or you know through our social medias or coordinating ads at like the airport or on billboards, that kind of thing.
Speaker: There's a landscaping team. they They do all the trees and planters and flowers. The owners themselves are landscape architects by trade. That's that's you know what what they've done throughout the years. And so they are very passionate about having a lot of that landscaping stuff look really nice. And and I think they do a very good job. Even before I started working for Anakista, I was always really impressed with the landscaping at the park.
Speaker: And then there's also the entertainment team They do the more temporary stuff. So we do several events throughout the year. Right now we're in the Bervarian Fall Festival. ah Well, actually, i think that's starting starting next week. But a lot of the decorations are already up for it. It's kind of a bear-themed Oktoberfest almost.
Speaker: I need to go. Yeah, it's really cute. One of our bear statues is wearing lederhosen, and I walked by it other day, and I'm like, oh, that's so cute.
Speaker: i need to see it. That's awesome. i'll I'll snap a picture send it guys. We just finished up the United Tastes of America. So it's kind of this, you know, 250th anniversary celebration of, you know, try different foods that are based around different states. And then we had the live entertainment to kind of go along with it of of like a road trip show playing some classic American songs and and that kind of thing.
Speaker: ah So that the entertainment team does does a lot of that stuff. And there's some overlap. you know Entertainment wants to put decorations in different places and we can help figure out what what places those things can go in and and how we get them there and everything.
Speaker: A lot of moving parts and collaboration. Oh, yeah. No, it takes a lot to run a theme park, turns out. like I was going to say, um how interconnected are the different departments in the development of of a new attraction at Anakista do the departments tasks kind of get passed along like like throughout each department to its completion or i is there a lot of back and forth and um you know collaboration in it in between departments at different stages like
Speaker: Yeah, um this kind of goes along with one of the episode questions that that Allison sent out of, you know, how do how do different elements play into each other? There.
Speaker: I'd say our team is usually kind of the first two things, because because we're the team that decides what can we build? I work directly with the owners quite a bit, and that's fairly unique to my role in the team that I work on, because they're they're the ones that kind of decide what they want in the park. And they're you know consulting us, consulting creative and entertainment teams on on what they think might work best. But of course, they're they're the final decision makers.
Speaker: um So yeah, we're we're kind of that step one of what can we build? What does the terrain look like? What pathways do we have? What pathways can we build to get to new attractions, new buildings, new stores, new restaurants?
Speaker: Um, and then deciding what, what those are going to be, and deciding where they're going to go. Um, so for instance, uh, we just did one of our big projects recently that you guys wouldn't have seen yet is the renovated Firefly Village.
Speaker: So along with the gondola going in, we renovated the first village area you see when you get off the gondola, it's called Firefly Village. Um, There are a couple of retail stores. There's an ice cream shop and a restaurant in the area. And one thing we added new as part of the renovation was this bear paw deck.
Speaker: it's It's this cantilevered deck that goes off the side of the mountain and it's shaped like a bear paw. hu It's nots kind of inspired by, i don't know if you've seen the, like that hand statue in Vietnam where there's like a path going through. Yes. Yay. I've seen that. Yeah. but That was kind of, that was almost the inspiration for that, for that bear paw deck. But,
Speaker: you know Our team saw that we had this giant retaining wall that we're building because because we're putting in this new gondola. We need these new pathways and everything. like, well, how could we use this to make it actually a feature that people can experience and and take pictures with? Like, oh, what if we had a bear paw sticking off the edge of this retaining wall here?
Speaker: and ah and And we pulled it off. I i think it looks very cool. um Another example of a project we just did is we renovated part of our treetops skywalk.
Speaker: Unfortunately, the trees had had grown in such a way where they weren't, they were getting close to not being able to support the ah the suspension bridges. So we put in three new towers, just man-made towers.
Speaker: um And, you know, that was the the first step of that was our team coming in and and deciding What can we do to replace these trees and where are these towers gonna go to have the best visual impact and to give the best experience to the guests?
Speaker: ah So we can kind of do massing from there, figure out what these elements are going to look like. And then then you start to go into the more nitty gritty of what are the architectural styles? What are the colors? What kind of decorations are we going to have on it? What kind of landscaping is going to be around it? How does this play into the views? How this play into the flow of the the overall park?
Speaker: and And that's when the creative team would would start to get involved and and we'd maybe have some back and forth with them. so like the canopy walk towers you know once we decided we're going to build these towers we came up with this design that matches the vista tower so it's got that kind of flared out flared out beam look to it yeah and uh and you know we decided kind of the finish on that we ended up putting a glass railing on it to enhance the views uh and and they're positioned in a way where you can
Speaker: see downtown gatlinburg it's a very cool view even just from that that treetop skywalk ah or like with the bear paw deck you know it's like we want to build a bear pot uh okay now how do we actually make it look like a bear paw what kind of flooring do you use what kind of concrete do we use to to to give it this effect um and then um
Speaker: Then you know there's the element of how does how do our events play into this? So like for UTA, for instance, a lot a lot of our food trucks and restaurants got wrapped with like different states. So like we have we had a food truck serving these twisted like potato fried potatoes, and we put like an Idaho wrap on it.
Speaker: like This is Idaho. And then our taco truck, we had like a New Mexico wrap on that.
Speaker: So yeah, and when you get to that point, it's it's a lot of back and forth of us kind of trying to help determine the logistics and the other teams. Right. Determining more of the aesthetics and the marketing and and the presentation of everything.
Speaker: Have you ever been approached about a potential project that you literally had to respond just be like, no, that's not physically possible? um
Speaker: Yes and no i think Me personally, i like to always put a lot of thought into how can we make this work in in a way that you want? Because maybe what you come to me with isn't possible the way you're describing it, but maybe something very similar is possible or something even maybe better is possible.
Speaker: So i can kind of you know twist it around and and guide people into the right direction of here's what we can build. Here's what's actually feasible. Yeah.
Speaker: um So obviously we are a creative podcast. Where do you feel that your creative strengths lie in your role? Uh, you know, I have an engineering background, mechanical engineering degree. and also, you know, I'm a coaster enthusiast, just like you guys. So, uh, I, I think a lot of my creative strengths come in like creative problem solving.
Speaker: Um, figuring out how to build a structure on a mountain, cause that is, you know, a challenge compared to building on flat ground. Um,
Speaker: figuring out like logistics. I think that's one thing that i bring to the team is you know, I go out and ride a bunch of roller coasters and i have a good feel for what works, what doesn't work for entrance and exit stations and, and how that interacts with the ride system and that kind of thing.
Speaker: ah And of course, know, I've got as a coaster enthusiast, I have a passion for the industry of entertaining people through these sort of adventure experiences or ride experiences or whatever it is.
Speaker: I love it It's always interesting how coaster enthusiasts can bring a different eye to things. Oh, for sure. Yeah. I mean, when you go to as many theme parks as we do, you you get you see things in different places that you like and don't like. You're you're not as as pigeonholed and into only seeing the things as at your that's at your regional park or anything like that.
Speaker: so you're saying, Leah, think a little inverted? you You can say that. Had to work that in there. Got to work it in. right Yeah, I mean, that's kind of how I started kind of the idea of inverted is like like seeing things from a different perspective when you're inverted and you're seeing the world from a different viewpoint. And yeah that experience can kind of bring new perspectives to things.
Speaker: that's my Yeah, funny enough, I've i've been using the gamertag inverted for probably since I was like 14. So you announced the name of your studio. I'm like, oh, she kind of stole my name there. but Sorry. It's like I was using it for anything other than playing Minecraft. so What he's saying is I want royalties.
Speaker: Would be nice. No, just kidding. I make Patreon money and that's about it. I pay more towards things than I actually earn from doing this.
Speaker: So the royalties are more for such a high quality podcast. I really enjoy listening to your episodes. I appreciate that. I was going to say the royalties would be you paying me a little bit. So I don't think it works that way.
Speaker: Yeah. um and So I want to go into one of the listener questions. Um, from Parker said, what kind of considerations for wildlife do you need to keep in mind when building attractions?
Speaker: um There obviously is a lot of wildlife involved. Yeah. no when, when you're building in an adventure park like this or like at a ski resort or anything, there's, there's always considerations for wildlife. I think one of the cool things of,
Speaker: Anakista and kind of the way we have positioned our park is that our philosophy is like we're bringing guests to nature. You're coming to the park to experience the wildlife, to experience the flora and the fauna of the Smoky Mountains.
Speaker: And so, of course, you know, in that vein, we want to keep as much of the natural landscape there as we can.
Speaker: you know for For instance, like our our bird venture playground um plays into kind of some of the native birds of the area. And and you know we had to clear out the space to to build that playground, but we're going to leave the the areas around it natural. So you can hopefully maybe see some of these birds in the wild from the park even.
Speaker: um I will say one one kind of interesting, maybe non-Anakista answer, more of we a Wiegand answer to this is, you know sometimes there are areas where there's sensitive wildlife populations that you do have to plan around. I i did a project with Wiegand where we had to ah we had to meet with a U.S. Forest Service representative who specialized in pine marten nests and everything and make sure our coaster wasn't interfering with the pine martens. We had another project where we had to do that that kind of thing for owls. A lot of times the local forest entities or government entities will ah well really pay attention to how you're how what you're doing is affecting the wetlands in the area and all that. so
Speaker: But again, like at Weekend too, but especially at Anakista, our goal is to have you interact with nature. So you know we want to keep that intact as much as possible.
Speaker: Does the, um of without without knowing like how the um the sort of like counties and local authorities around Gatlinburg, Pigeon Forge, and Sevierville kind of influence your um attractions decision making like amongst like Anakista and Dollywood etc and other and other parks in the area and stuff do they typically I guess does the city of Gatlin or the town of Gatlinburg typically give you the green light so to speak to to like you know go full send on any project that you have have in the having the plans in the works or um is there is there some...
Speaker: um ah communication communication to be had between you and you know the town of Gatlinburg as it pertains to like yeah um preservation of wildlife, preservation of sightlines in the Smoky Mountains, things of that nature, because we see like um different ah different instances of where um how things might look, and ah how how um attractions and projects might look, like from like a park landscape perspective and how they affect like the landscape of their area and stuff, and and the natural wildlife and the different sort of biomes in the area, like you mentioned the wetlands as well. Is that ah is that a um sort of a relationship between you and the town of Gatlinburg that is very fruitful in like
Speaker: on ah like in terms of you being able to do as close to what you want to accomplish with projects? or is the relationship a bit more sort of like we have, we have, we have this, um, we have this idea and we're going to do these things to make sure it keeps in line with how the town wants the area to be preserved.
Speaker: So to speak. Yeah, that's, that's a good question. kind of boiling down to like how, how do we work with the city city of Gatlinburg basically? and And what kinds of things are are they paying attention to?
Speaker: um you know, for everything we build, any structures that we build, we're, we're applying for building permits, that kind of thing. We're getting site plan approval, uh, when we're doing things around the mountain and, and Gatlinburg, um, they, they do pay attention to like, you know, how are you affecting the trees? How are you affecting the the forest landscape? That kind of thing.
Speaker: Um, there's, there is definitely some back and forth. It's definitely not a situation where we just have a green light to build whatever we want. Uh, we do have to go through the city with, with anything that we do. Um, I can't get too, too detailed about it, but true yeah, like, you know, public planning commission meetings, um, you know, these sort of public documents and, and that kind of thing. We're, we're at all of those for anything new that we're doing.
Speaker: Um, And there there are people in the city too, you know people that work for the city that specialize in you know trees or or dirt work or earth work, that kind of thing.
Speaker: Does that kind of answer your question? Yeah, yeah. I just i figured with um so like a location such as the Smoky Mountains, which is so heralded and so treasured, both like read regionally, nationally, and I guess internationally as well.
Speaker: Yeah. they would be, but i guess, like the towns within that area would be very, what's the word, um
Speaker: ah like precious with the kind of attractions that, you know, emerge and change and evolve, like within the area in terms of how they affect how themoky mountain the the Smoky Mountains like region looks and and and how it affects the wildlife within that region as well.
Speaker: Yeah, no, Gatlinburg is it's a very pretty town if you've ever been. it's It really is the entrance to the Smokies. So they do care quite a bit about about how the town looks. And we do back right up to the National Park. So obviously, you know, we can't build on National Parkland or anything like that. Right, right.
Speaker: ah But... um But yeah, Gatlinburg is kind of the tie between, you know, it's it's I guess more more the hub to where you go to you know, stay in a hotel, get food, whatever. And then you can go from Gatlinburg into into the National Park and experience experience nature virtually untouched once you know once you're in the natural National Park side of it.
Speaker: And I guess where Anakista fits into that is, you know, we're, we're, we get people to a place where they can, they can get these 360 degree panoramic views and they can experience the the mountain in a way that you might not be able to on the national park, you know, riding one of the mountain coasters and, and getting close on the ground to nature or going on the the canopy walk and,
Speaker: really feeling like you're in the trees and and looking around at the forest below you.
Speaker: I mentioned also I was going to do maybe a deeper dive on on bears if if you guys want to hear better. Yeah, i was going to ask if you personally run into any Oh, all the time. Yeah. Bears. Okay.
Speaker: If you go to Gatlinburg, there's signage all over. It says, don't feed the bears. Keep keep your distance from the bears. and And we have that kind of signage at Anakista as well. And it's, I mean, if you want to see a bear visiting Anakista is honestly not ah a bad way to try and do that. There are few there are a few places in the park where where you can pretty safely view the bears.
Speaker: A lot of places on the canopy walk are high enough up where the bears aren't really going to be a danger to anyone on on that attraction. um We see bears a lot from the Ridge Ramblers. So if you're riding the the truck up to the park, um a lot of a lot of the drivers will slow down or even stop if there's a bear out in the woods so people can can take a picture and see the bear.
Speaker: With the new glass bottom gondola, we have it passes over an area where we know that A couple of bears have their dens and their habitats down there. So, so we see bears crawling around underneath the gondola.
Speaker: um You know, occasionally it does become a problem. You know, when the bear walks through the parking lot or, know, maybe they get a, get a whiff of something from, from one of our food areas. So our security is trained to to, be able to handle the, those bear situations. The, the,
Speaker: yeah i I lived in Montana before. have grizzlies. Out in Tennessee, it's just black bears compared to the Montana bears. They're they're not huge. so A lot of the times, it's it's pretty easy to just kind of scare them away, send them back into the woods. But But yeah, I mean, there there are bears in Gatlinburg. Walk your cars.
Speaker: don't Don't leave food in your car. Don't feed the bears. Don't try and get close to them. stay keep Keep your distance. you know these These bear safety protocols are posted all over the park and they're posted all over the city city of Gatlinburg as well.
Speaker: If not friend, why friend-shaped? I think that all the time. Every time I see a bear like walk through the parking lot, I'm like, I want to go pet you. you're so cute. But yeah, no you don't you don't want to go pet him. Yeah. My one ah bear experience when I was at Anakista, we were about to get on Railrunner and they held us for a second so they could let security go down the track because there was a a fuzzy friend on the track.
Speaker: So they sent security down and I guess they got it cleared because then ah they sent me immediately after. So I'm like, oh, okay. I did not the bear. These bears, you let them know you don't want them there. They'll they'll run off there.
Speaker: He just wanted to ride the mountain coaster too. Yeah. For those maybe not familiar with with bear protocols, with with black bears, if you ever see one, if you're hiking in the woods or anything, the best thing to do is make yourself big and yell at the bear. You don't want to run away. You don't want to trigger their prey instinct. ah And with these black bears in the Smoky Mountains, if you're loud and you shout at them, and say like, just like, hey, go away.
Speaker: then they typically will will just run away. if If they do start moving towards you, you want to kind of move backwards, stay facing them. Don't don't act like a prey animal. Move backwards, keep yelling at them.
Speaker: And that's that's the best way to to deal with black bears. With grizzlies, it's different, but we don't have those in the Smokies.
Speaker: Yeah, that was that was a fun. like They just sent me like immediately after clearing the bear. Like. Cool. Yeah. um So is it a tough balance to not disturb nature, but also.
Speaker: Plan for, you know, trying to get thrilling attractions, things that people are going enjoy.
Speaker: i think Yeah, you sent this question and ah i had to kind of really think about my answer to this question. Of course, we always want to err on the side of being as minimally minimally invasive as possible with nature. ah But our goal is to, uh, you know, to meet the requirements for like safety and accessibility, um, but bring people to nature.
Speaker: it's, uh, like the question of like, is it tough to balance that, um, for us, like nature is the focal point of our, of a lot of our attractions. So, uh, it's weird to think about it in the sense of like being a hindrance or like we're trying to fight it. We're really trying to work with nature to bring people to nature to be able to experience it.
Speaker: um And Anakista especially, we we do our best to make these accessible to everyone. So the whole family can come and experience nature together. You don't need to have a bunch of hiking experience or or woods experience or anything like that to to come and enjoy the woods and enjoy the Smoky Mountains up at up at our park.
Speaker: Um, a lot of, you they're, they're building codes, of course, though, that we have to go along with, um, if we're, if we're designing accessible walkways, uh, anything up to like a 5% grade is, is not considered a ramp. So we try to keep a lot of our pathways in, in that zero to 5% grade range, uh, so that they are accessible. Uh, you can go a little bit steeper if it is a ramp, if you have like railings on it.
Speaker: Uh, so that helps a lot, obviously on the mountain where. ah There is a pretty big elevation change between the lowest point in our park and the highest point in our park. And there are challenges ah of getting people to those areas.
Speaker: ah But yeah, i I wouldn't think of it so much as like we're trying to fight nature. It's a tough thing to to build in the woods as much as, you know, that is what we do. So a lot of the problem solving that we do has to do with really bringing out the best in nature and also being the best that we can be as an experience for our guests.
Speaker: And also think about the bears. Yeah. elses Of course. Think of the bears. I'm now even more proud that when I posted that you were coming on the podcast, I made a bear pun.
Speaker: Yeah, no, it's it's very on the nose. And since I've worked at Anakista, a lot of the stuff we do is bears. And I think rightfully so. We do have bears. BRAMBO BAKERMANNIKI- Brambo asked, what is the most underappreciated part of the designs you've had influence on? That's yeah that that's a ah good question. i actually have two answers. I think for my role,
Speaker: ah There are a lot of like small but influential decisions you can make when it comes to like guest flow. So like how wide is the path?
Speaker: ah where like How intuitive is the path? Where are people going to go? At Anakista, it's managing a lot of elevation changes, like i was mentioning, and figuring out the best pathway where we can keep our paths accessible for for people.
Speaker: You know, we we talk about how wide are our doors, how inviting are our buildings, that kind of thing. There's a bunch of little decisions like that, that, a lot of people don't always think about. And you know sometimes you're a theme park, you're trying to follow the signs to get somewhere. i think our goal is to almost have the signs be secondary. We want people to understand how the paths flow into each other and where we want them to go. And and there's a bunch of little decisions we can make as far as like, how wide is the path? What angle is it at? what What's the slope on it that that will influence people to go to certain places versus others?
Speaker: um My other answer is like construction logistics. So Anakista, it's a big question of putting in a new attraction is can we build it and what tools do we have available to install this new building or ride? um There's a lot of optimizing for cost. So at At a certain point, sometimes the construction costs can can get away from you as far as we want to build this cool building, but it's on a really steep slope. it's on the side of the mountain.
Speaker: How are we going to get machinery machine machinery out there to build it? How are we going to bring material onto the site? um And then optimizing for construction time as well. One really cool thing that...
Speaker: that I got to witness is when we were building this new gondola, ah we had ah we had two days during the gondola project where we had hired a helicopter to come in and install these gondola towers.
Speaker: And you know at at first that might seem crazy. It's like you have a whole helicopter to just put in these towers. But when you think about how much time it would take to get a crane up the mountain,
Speaker: and get it into it to a spot where you can build that tower and then take the crane down, move it to another spot and install that tower again. You know, even though flying a helicopter for a day can get very expensive, ah ultimately, it's the more cost-effective option. And it's also the fastest option where, you know, we had one helicopter day where we took out some of the old towers.
Speaker: We built up some of the infrastructure around it. and a couple weeks later, we had another helicopter day where we put in the new towers and it's done within a matter of hours as opposed to having to get all this construction equipment everywhere. So that that is, that is, I think a big thing that is underappreciated about building these kinds of things, especially on a mountain where we're at.
Speaker: That just sounds like a really cool day at work too. So it was cool. They let us all go up to the top and just watch the helicopter fly is cool. Is there just like a construction contractor in that area that just has that availability of a helicopter? mean, there I guess there has to be, but is is that guy how you guys kind of did it? Yeah.
Speaker: you know I don't know exactly how we found our helicopter pilot. It it is a Black Hawk helicopter that that we used to install these towers. It's got to be a sturdy helicopter. i i think he might not have even been local. yeah He might have flown in from somewhere.
Speaker: um i think I believe it might have been somewhere in Kentucky. But yeah, you I mean... You just use your connections and you can do online searches and stuff too of like, oh, who has a helicopter that that does this kind of thing, constructing with helicopters?
Speaker: yeah and you mentioned the little details and kind of thinking about those and all of your decisions. I think a lot of people underestimate how important those little details are. um I know like us as enthusiasts, we go to parks all the time.
Speaker: We can kind of see those in action. And just there are so many times they're like, oh my gosh, that is so cool that they thought about that. And it makes yeah big impact. Yeah. It really does. And and you know you also don't want to underestimate the amount of time that takes sometimes of going back and forth of, you know, let's put the entrance to this attraction here or let's put it over here five feet over or, you know, maybe we switch the entrance and exit.
Speaker: a Maybe it feels more natural to go in this way and out this way or different flow things like that. do that. It can take time to iterate it.
Speaker: Like. Obviously speaking, it's just my own experience um versus, you know, like a team working, well, multiple teams working together.
Speaker: I often find myself when I'm, when I do things like art, ah two d r any kind of world building exercise, anything like that, I usually have to, not, not I have to, but like, I usually end up like it like I'll, I'll have, you know, a brainstorm of ideas or I'll, um, or as I'm working through a project, um,
Speaker: I'll let it sit for a little while and not that maybe not, not come to it or come back to it um within a matter of hours, within, i don't know, a couple of days maybe or something like that. And then I'll, and I'll be able to see it from a fresher pair of eyes or a fresher perspective and be able to add more details into what's already there to set in the, I guess, like other like world building aspects to really
Speaker: penetrate a little deeper in terms of like how believable it is in terms of in some of the story that's being told, in terms of the scenario that's being painted, the mood of it, etc, etc. Does that does that kind of exist in um within um you know project building, ah project brainstorming, like within within teams within within your teams all, in terms of just like stepping back from it fur up for a hot little minute and coming back and then coming back to it later with um a fresher perspective, so to speak?
Speaker: Oh, absolutely. yeah and Yeah. And like even going from person to person too. Yeah. sorry um Even going from person to person too, like I might come up with something that I think is great and like, oh, this is the best solution ever. And then I'll bring it to someone else on my team, bring it to my boss, bring it to one of the owners. And they'll be like, oh, this isn't going to work at all because of this reason. It's like, okay, I didn't think of that, but that's that's a good thing to think about. And then you you know you go back and iterate the design. But there there also is that element of, you know, maybe it's just something that I'm working on that I'll be sitting down one day at my computer on Civil three d trying to draw something out and I just can't seem to get it right.
Speaker: And then so I'll just like switch gears to another project and then a day or two later go back to that project and yeah, and I'll have more clarity on like, oh yeah, like, you know, I could I could just do it this way.
Speaker: um It also helps, you know, if I if i take a step back and go up on the mountain and visit visit the area on site and be like, OK, now that I'm standing here, you know, how would i think about this as a guest on the ground here? Yeah. And, you know, of course, I got the hypothetical in my head of I can kind of visualize this new building being here, this new attraction being here.
Speaker: um and And it's cool to, you know, it's cool to work. be able to work on site like that with Anarchy's Stud and really get in it and get immersed in everything.
Speaker: I think putting yourself in the point of view is immensely helpful, I can imagine. Oh, absolutely. As opposed to staring at a screen. Especially in an environment like that. yeah Yeah. And sometimes you just need the break too. Like I've been staring at a screen for five hours. like but Let's mix it up. let Let's kind of freshen my brain up and and and get those creative juices flowing again.
Speaker: Literally get some fresh air. Yeah, exactly. um From a fellow mechanical engineer, I'm curious because we've talked about like creative side and visualizing and kind of getting to that point.
Speaker: ah Has building on a mountain, I guess this kind of applies to Wiegand too, potentially, created some unique engineering challenges as far as like foundations and how to make things work.
Speaker: works like structure wise, like, are you doing, um, meeting any challenges there as far as like being on a mountain as well?
Speaker: i say compared to someone who doesn't work normally on a mountain, There unique challenges, but that's kind of all I've been doing for the past three and a half years is working on mountains. And so so, I mean, everything we do is is creative problem solving. you know Different parts of the mountain are different steepnesses. Different parts of the mountain have different soil compositions, different rock composition compositions under the soil. And so we always need to consider those factors as well as what does this look like to the guest? How is this going to be easily accessed?
Speaker: um Yeah, i i I think that the blanket answer is, yeah, every single project requires some creative thinking to to make it work.
Speaker: I was just curious on my from my standpoint, because everything I've ever done like that is on flat ground or like in a building. So... so Yeah, I mean, I feel like at this point in my career, if I had to go to something like that, that would that almost be easy mode of like, oh, yeah, I don't have to be staring at a topo map for 12 hours straight to try and figure out how I'm going to fit this building or this riot in here.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly. Well, on the topic of mountain ranges, I'm going to jump to Ethan's question. I was thinking the same thing. two um He said, if you could design a theme park like Anakista and another mountain range anywhere around the world, which mountain range would you choose?
Speaker: And how would you design the theme park to match that mountain range's scenery? This really good question, actually. And I had a lot of fun thinking about this this question and some of the hypotheticals. Anakista is pretty unique in what we do.
Speaker: it's you know there There's some ski resorts that do kind of that do summer ops that's kind of similar to what we do. But there's no park that's like virtually identical to Anakista, except for Glenwood Caverns. I think that's probably the closest analog you're going to get to Anakista of. You have to take a gondola up there and then there's, there's attractions at the top of the mountain.
Speaker: um So, you know, i I went to school in Utah. I lived in Montana for a few years. So my gut reaction is like, Oh, this would be cool to have in the Rocky mountains. And it kind of already is a park there with Glenwood in the Rockies that, that does a similar thing.
Speaker: There's some really cool parks around the world too. There's a park in Vietnam called Ba Na Hills that, uh, we look to a lot for like inspiration just because they've gone so extravagant with their different gondola systems that they have up there they have like six mountain coasters i would say is that the one with literally six mountain coasters yeah yeah yeah they're they're the one with a giant hand statue that i mentioned with with the path going through it okay yeah that's ah you know the mountaintop adventure park that that's a another cool one that we think of um
Speaker: But Anakista is pretty unique in that we're in an area that we don't get a lot of snow. So we can operate year round with these, ah you know, what would otherwise be summertime attractions for like a ski resort, for instance.
Speaker: um And when thinking about other mountain ranges, snow is a challenge in a lot of them because once you get to high elevations, you you tend to get a lot of snow and And kind of like I mentioned, Anakista is almost like a ski resort in the summer. a lot of these ski resorts are are investing more and more into their summer operations and and having a guest, ah you know, customers flowing in and out year round.
Speaker: um i I went to last year, I went to the SAM Ski Area Management Magazine. They do a ah summer ops camp. um It's kind of like ah a trade show, but they they almost structure it more like a camp where a bunch of industry professionals in the ski industry will get together and talk about how to enhance your park in the summer, how how to make your park enjoyable in in the warmer months when there's no snow up there. And that's actually being held in Gatlinburg this year. So we' we're excited to welcome a bunch of people involved in that event to Anakista during summer rocks ops camp and and show them what we have. and
Speaker: And we think, you know, like I said, we're very unique. We think we're we're very cutting edge as far as as far as those kinds of attractions go. And I think that'll be really cool for a lot of these people to see.
Speaker: But I guess to answer the question from a more personal point of view of like what mountain range would I want to what I want an Anakista Lake Park to be at. um i I have a soft spot for the Pacific Northwest.
Speaker: I lived in Missoula, Montana, which isn't quite the Pacific Northwest, but it's like right there next to it. a And and i I think it'd be really cool to see ah see something in that area where it's this adventure park that can connect you with nature. And of course, there there are parks and attractions being built that are kind of moving in that direction. There are several ski resorts in in the Cascade Mountain Range and up in Washington, British Columbia, Oregon, that area.
Speaker: um There's also the one project that I worked on with Wigan, the Leavenworth Adventure Park, which is almost a this kind of same vibe of a year-round summer summer year roundund summer ski resort.
Speaker: That's the place I really want to go. Yeah. No, it's it's really pretty out there.
Speaker: it's like... Germany in the U.S., if remember. Leavenworth? Yeah. It's a German town. Surprisingly, there are a few towns like that kind of around the U.S. Helen, Georgia also has kind of name. Yeah, very familiar with that one. One of my favorite mountain coasters, too.
Speaker: I surprisingly have not been on that one. I need to, though. It's not that far from me, actually. I might get to that one this year if I go down for the North Georgia State Fair. Maybe. I don't know.
Speaker: I mean, I lived in Atlanta, so it was pretty easy. You say, when is that? Yeah. um September, there's two weekends of it, and it runs through the week that it, so the first weekend is September 26th and 27th. The second weekend is October 3rd and 4th, and then it should be open that entire week.
Speaker: Okay. Yeah. I mean, if you're going, let me know. Matt and I might might want to join in on that. Okay. Okay. I love the trip planning that happens during the podcast. Yeah. yeah
Speaker: Now that I'm thinking about it, um obviously you've worked on a lot of mountain coasters. Yeah. you Do you have a favorite one?
Speaker: aye You know, it's it's almost like picking your favorite child. I think the the obvious gut reaction is to plug Anakista. We have two mountain coasters. We got the Hellbender and and the Railrunner. Both a very good time. My favorite mountain coaster is Anakista.
Speaker: Is it Railrunner? Yes, it is. Yeah, a lot of enthusiasts really like Railrunner. It is intense. It's very fast. And like I said, very low to the ground. It's a cool experience. um The one I just mentioned Leavenworth, that is also a very cool mountain coaster. ah The the GM of that park is also enthusiast adjacent or he might even consider himself a a coaster enthusiast. And so a lot of his input on that mountain coaster design was catered towards a more exciting mountain coaster ride as opposed to maybe a more scenic family friendly one. Not that it's not family friendly, but
Speaker: it's It's a very cool ride. and And the location is just really pretty. It's ah at the mouth of this valley in in the northern Rockies in the Washington area.
Speaker: And it's just such a cool backdrop to that coaster. um i also have a soft spot for i know you and Mike wrote it. The. brush creek hollery mountain coaster in west virginia yeah that was a project that i saw through start to finish when i was at weekend so i i designed that ride i worked with the owners and the general contractor to to build that ride i basically sold the ride and i was the one the representative from weekend to go out there and commission the ride so uh i i have a soft spot for that ride i know uh our friend john mike went out there and wrote it he's like he told me he's like i could tell an enthusiast designed it i'm like good i'm glad glad you enjoyed it it's exactly what we wanted yeah uh yeah well i think he asked me he's like he's like did you design this one i'm like yeah he's like yeah i could tell it was an enthusiast i'm like good i'm glad you like that one um
Speaker: There are a few projects I have that same sort of soft spot for where where I was deeply involved in them. And actually, the Hellbender at Anakista is a project that I was involved in for a lot of that the process of of building that one.
Speaker: Obviously, in Gatlinburg Pigeon Forge, there's it seems like a billion mountain coasters. ah you know After you do Anakistas, there's some other fun ones. I was involved with the Pigeon Forge racing coaster that opened up pretty recently.
Speaker: So that one's very cool. it got As far as like connection to nature, you got Smoky Mountain Alpine Coaster, the Moonshine Coaster, Ripley's Mountain Coaster.
Speaker: I'd say those are some of the more nature-focused standalone rides. um The more kind of track ride-focused ones, like Goats on the Roof or Skyland Ranch, those those are a lot of fun.
Speaker: The racing coaster is kind of a one of a kind. It's in downtown Pigeon Forge. It's got all these cool decorations and lights on it. I think it's a lot of fun. You've got like Lost Mine, Mountain Coaster, and Rocky Top that have more of a themed experience. I think it's Rocky Top, the one I've done in okay in that area.
Speaker: That's the one that's right by Dollywood. So there's a lot of enthusiasts where it's like they've only done one. it's it's A lot of the time it's Rocky Top. um And then you've got like Anakista, Obermountain, and like Rowdy Bear Adventure Park where the mountain coasters are part of a bigger experience.
Speaker: And I think there's something to be said for for having a mountain coaster that's part of a park as as as opposed to a standalone attraction. oh that's That's me kind of flexing my knowledge of of all the mountain coasters in Gatlinburg. Were involved with any of the ones in Brunson, Missouri, by any chance?
Speaker: Kind of. Yeah. Right now, Wiegand is actually operating the Branson coaster. It's the one that's kind of just on the strip there. Yeah, yeah. So I've ridden that one and okay the Copperhead a mountain coaster, I think, as well.
Speaker: Those are both Wiegand rides, yeah. um I wasn't involved with building either of them, but I have spent some time out there in Branson, you know, working with the managers. And and we did our Christmas party there with Wiegand a couple of years ago. Oh, that must have been fun. Yeah.
Speaker: We've done it in Tennessee as well. Surprise, surprise. We've got a million customers out here. so This might not be Jacob's favorite opinion of mine, but my favorite coaster or my favorite mountain coaster is in Branson and it's not a weekend. end The runaway. It's the eight a g runaway. Yeah.
Speaker: I just love that ride. Yeah. I mean, I can, really I can respect that opinion. I, I had fun on that one. Um, coming from weekend, you know, I'm kind of looking yeah at it as the competition, like,
Speaker: you know what what did they do better than us what what do we do better than them in comparing the the different ride systems that we have the brake arm being longer that's yeah that's one of my things yeah you you like the adg one more or the weekend one i like the adg one that the one a couple of them come up further than the weekend and like weekend and you got to reach like way down yeah for the break whereas the adg one is like a little higher up so you're not kind leaning back more and you can push, have more leverage, I guess. I don't know.
Speaker: it It is interesting to hear different perspectives on on who likes what. I'm coming from Wiegand sales. i'm ah I'm always pointing out the the good features on the Wiegand coasters. But there's something to be said for for the variety. At Anakista, we've got two mountain coasters. And they're different manufacturers. And they offer very different ride experiences. And it's it's actually quite split on yeah know when our guests come up on which one they like better. A lot of them like Hellbender better. A lot of them like Railrunner better. And it kind of just depends on what your taste is.
Speaker: Right. My second favorite overall is like out of all of them is definitely Railrunner. Yeah. Yeah. it's It's a fun ride to have just at the park that I work at.
Speaker: Yeah. I've it quite a few times now and it's still terrifying every time. is but Did you ride any mountain coosters when we were in Poland? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: Curious how they got to compare. Javi drove us through the the Polish mountainside. to We rode, I think it was actually only two mountain coasters. One Wiegand, one Sunkid.
Speaker: ah Brandauer was the single rail coaster manufacturer that got bought by the company Sunkid. So Brandauer and Sunkid are kind of one in the same as far as the ride system goes.
Speaker: and We wrote a couple of Alpine slides as well. Weekend ones. That was a fun little fun little outing.
Speaker: Yeah, that was cool that you got to do that. Getting there the day before us or whatever. Yeah, it was cool to see you know a different part of Poland too, other than just Krakow and Energylandia. Yeah, and Katowice, the woman in time we spent there.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. No, that was such a fun trip. I miss Poland. Yeah. Yeah. We all do. Yeah.
Speaker: see. So i guess there's one. Yeah, we got one more. really um From Solar Coaster, who's a big supporter of the podcast, said this is literally like my dream job. um So what's your favorite area of Anakista and what are you most proud of?
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, it's a pretty fun job. I can't lie. You know, if, if you can get into this kind of job in the industry and I, you know, if, if it's something you think you'd enjoy, you're probably right. You probably would enjoy a a lot of aspects of, of doing this kind of job.
Speaker: Um, I've been involved with a couple of projects in Anakista now. And, uh, when we opened the new Firefly Village, uh, it it was really cool to see people's reactions coming in, especially like the staff that work at the park that, ah that hadn't necessarily seen that new village area yet. And it also kind of came to get, came together very fast. Well, it's, it appeared to come together really fast. Cause a lot of the, a lot of the aesthetic things that, you know, are kind of just the last minute, like putting the landscaping in, finishing up the paint job, putting all the signs up and everything like that. So, It goes from construction zone to presentable area quite quickly. um
Speaker: But when people walked into the new Firefly Village, it's just so cool to see the reactions and and our team talking with my boss and everything. ah We feel like we outdo ourselves all the time. It's like every new project, where we're upping the ante for what what the park looks like.
Speaker: It's like, OK, well, now the Firefly Village looks this good. how how do we renovate our other villages to to match this? So I'm really proud of the work we did there, and I think Firefly Village is a ah cool ah part to experience the park in. It's also where the station for Railrunner is.
Speaker: um Another project I was involved in that I mentioned is the Birdventure playground. I really like that area. It's very well themed. The slides are super fun. The play elements are a lot of fun.
Speaker: Landscaping, just like the rest of the park, very well done. ah the bird The bird statues that we have are are super cool. I took I took Matt and my friend Spencer out to Anakista and I took them in and around BirdVenture. We went down a few of the slides and and Matt told me after he's like, that that was really cool. It almost felt like a European park.
Speaker: And and I think that is something that is fun to have at Anakista. It makes us unique. It's it's both pretty and interactive and something that you can really immerse yourself in.
Speaker: um And if you haven't been to Anakista, it might be hard to kind of have a mental image of of what these places look like, but a but they are Firefly Village and Bird Adventure very cool areas. And I think that's kind of the standard we want to follow for for future renovations um or even exceed with with some of the new things that were're we have planned for the future.
Speaker: Along that line, um what do you kind of see for the future of Anakista? And do you have any project that you would love to be involved in there someday?
Speaker: Yeah, a funny you should should ask. I think I kind of know too much to answer this question too specifically. But do i i guess answering vaguely and not implying that any of this is is going to happen.
Speaker: um I think the obvious answer for me personally as a project that I want to be involved in would be a roller coaster, a thrill coaster, a large scale thrill coaster.
Speaker: um You know, that's what got me into the into the industry. And it's also my hobby outside of work. So I would love to kind of pull that in. ah And yeah theoreticals can be difficult when I'm actively involved in a lot of our future projects. And and we float tons of different ideas around all the time. So ah it's cool to see what sticks, what doesn't stick, what what gets pushed forward, what doesn't get pushed forward.
Speaker: um I guess if we imagine ourselves in the past of ah of some of the new stuff that just opened the Crystal Express Gondola, it it that really was a huge thing for us. and And it really is affecting our path moving forward because we went from a chairlift that could accommodate a thousand or so people an hour to a gondola that can of accommodate 2,400 people an hour. And Not only that, it's a lot quicker to get up, so it's a lot more appealing for guests to get on this gondola and come up to the top. So we're anticipating really a huge spike in capacity over the next year or two.
Speaker: Gatlinburg already a very popular area, and and we're excited to be able to have more people that visit the area be able to experience Anakista. And a lot of our stuff is focusing on catering to that capacity.
Speaker: getting more spaces for people to hang out and sit in more places to eat, more experiences, more rides to to be had. Yeah, yeah like the Crystal Express is huge and and being involved in another project of that scale, I think I think would be would be very cool.
Speaker: Wildfire at Colmarden at home. Come in soon, Anarchista. was going to say Defiance 2.0, but that's way better. That's way better, man. Oh my goodness.
Speaker: Yep. and we and Another thing we just opened along with kind of this new, we did a ah grand reopening in June. The park was, while we were building the Crystal Express, the park was shut down for the first time in its history, which the park actually only opened in 2017. So it's relatively new. and And next year we'll be celebrating our 10th anniversary. So that's going to be fun.
Speaker: ah But yeah the being closed for the gondola building was the first time the park was closed for an extended period of time since it opened. We did this grand reopening of the gondola, of course, which a lot of people in the area and a lot of people in the industry came up ah to to that event. I actually had Matt come down. he He went with me to the event and got to meet a bunch of my coworkers and everything. So that was cool.
Speaker: ah But along with the gondola, we have a new light show, nighttime light show, the Firefly Experience. It's themed to the ah synchronous fireflies in the Great Smoky Mountains. i don't know if you've heard of them, but there's the species of firefly where they'll they'll take up an entire tree and they'll flash, like they'll synchronize their flashes. So it's like the whole tree is flashing at once.
Speaker: Oh, wow. it's It's a really cool phenomenon, but it's very protected. If you want to go see it in the Great Smoky Mountain National Park, you have to, there's like ah a lottery ticket system that you have to know when the when the tickets are going to drop and you have to almost get lucky to be able to see it in person. And we're excited to Anakista to be able to somewhat recreate that experience ah for in a way that's more accessible to more people. Yeah, it is just lights, but there's a lot more to the show than than just flashing lights. We have music coordinated with it. We have different scenes that play as you go. And it's part of our treetop skywalk. So at night, our treetop skywalk turns into this Firefly experience. And and that adds a whole new element of not only is a light show, it's a light show from 40 feet off the ground on the suspension bridge.
Speaker: Sounds really cool. It is really cool. You guys should, you guys should ah come check it out. Anakista really, uh, you know During the day, it's it's a great place to see the views of the Smoky Mountain. But at night, it's also very cool, just the lighting effects that we have. BirdVenture has a really cool lighting package on it. We have Astralumina, which is the Illumina experience. It's about a 45-minute almost hike through the woods where they where we have different scenes set up of like, it's the the story of like the birth of the stars. And there's music that's tailored to that that specific experience.
Speaker: And it was the same company that did the Firefly experience. We had them back to to do this other thing for us. So between Astralumina and Astralumina, the Firefly experience, BirdVenture, and even just the lighting package we have around the park, it is a really cool nighttime experience to be at Anakista.
Speaker: Sounds like we need to have a podcast retreat down in Gatlinburg. Mm-hmm. Do it. yeah i in he still all day hey i been Yeah. Again, for the listeners, this is, you know, I, I'm friends with.
Speaker: all mcyle says Separately outside of the podcast, outside of just being an industry professional. So, yeah. Yeah. We, we, we plan trips together sometimes. Sometimes that's how we all ended up in Poland together. Yep. We all ended up Poland together. And in Germany. But maybe next time. Yeah.
Speaker: Hopefully I'll be able to afford to go to Europe again. I'll go back to Europe, so to speak. yeah like audience, I got to ride weekend slide at Europa park with Jacob.
Speaker: Oh yeah. Yeah. Cause you, in your, your park vlog that, yeah. I'd like you, I'd like just met you the night before I think. Right. Yeah. We literally just met there. Yeah. Well not at Europa, but like in Switzerland and then yeah you were like, does anyone want to go ride this slide with me? And everyone else was like, didn't answer. And I was like, I'll go. i was like, that looks like fun. So, and it was, we can slide. yeah Yeah, it was cool. And, and, uh, you know, that's, we've, we've got bird venture and that's, that's why, you know, we think of it as like almost a European thing of like these European parks do have these cool interactive areas that, that you can go into.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. That that area of Europa is cool, which all of Europa is cool. Europa Park, it's such a good park. Yeah. I'm excited to go next year. We got Dostumble with Buzzbars. yeah I think that's going to be a really good time.
Speaker: i am i i would I would really like to make that happen, but I have Germany hopes and dreams for Christmas next year. oh yeah. That I really get...
Speaker: do I even need to say it? Yeah. like Like, come on. We were You go to Germany in Christmas and you don't go to Phantasaland, what are you doing? Well, good thing we went in Thanksgiving.
Speaker: um which that The day you guys flew out of Zurich, it was just me, Bram and Javi. We had some time to spend in Zurich and like a bunch of the Christmas market stuff had just opened there. And so we kind of got to experience, it was Switzerland, but we got to experience Europe and the Christmas market. We also drove out to Strasbourg to check out that. Yes. Market as well. Yeah.
Speaker: That was a good time. That was, that was fun. Yeah, kind of forgot we did that little jaunt over to Strasbourg. It was a pretty quick jaunt. And that's the only time I've been to France still to this day. I'm like, have you been to France? Like, yeah, technically for like an hour. Yeah, I've been to France twice and it's a collective like maybe three hours. Yeah, I need to get there. Need to get there properly.
Speaker: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker: i mean, as long as you don't get like locked out of your hotel like I did, France should be pretty nice. This is before we checked in. I'm not getting into that. Yeah.
Speaker: How'd you get locked out before you checked in? Well, basically, I wasn't able to check in is what I mean by that. Oh. Yeah, I just said it weirdly. Didn't like Kelly and Tyler have like... They also... Yeah, they had a very... It was different but similar situation. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Theirs at least wasn't at 2.30 in the morning. Yeah, yeah that that doesn't sound fun. We survived. It's fine. yeah I have a cat who is very anxious to join this podcast right now. We can door open while recording.
Speaker: we can door open while recording I'm going get the basic questions out of the way before we wrap this up. What's your top 10 at the moment, and what's your number one closer?
Speaker: this is Oh, boy. My top 10 has actually shaken up quite a bit recently. ah Well, recently. Wow. I can talk, I think. Maybe. ah Welcome to my world. there's like i just rode pantheria and it was my 500th credit and i don't have it ranked yet um i'm trying to figure out if it's my no i'm actually trying to figure out if it's my number one us i really enjoyed enjoyed that ride is i i like a wild big tall coasters
Speaker: Yeah, so my ah my top 10, I guess, ah assuming Pantherian and Fury are fighting for the number two spot. My number one is Fly at Phantasy Land. I've always loved flying coasters, and that is basically flying coaster perfection.
Speaker: And the theme there is is second to none. ah And then Fury 325 is my number two or Pantherian. Those are going to be two or three.
Speaker: Don't know which order. Still haven't decided yet. ah My number four would then be Top Thrill 2. Again, yeah like really like these big elements and the speed and everything.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm glad you agree with me on that one. That's a hot take to a lot of people. Yeah, apparently. Yeah. I don't get why. but it's It's such an excellent ride. and And those new trains, you get airtime over that top hat. yeah It's a lot of fun.
Speaker: You did not get that on Dragster. Sorry, carry on. Yeah, yeah. Although Dragster was also very good. I had that ranked very high as well. No, same. Five and six kind of go hand in hand, and I go back and forth on which one I like better, but it's Voltron and Velocicoaster. Kind of the multi-launch, very heavily themed multi-launch thrill coasters. Those are very good. you Number seven would be The Voyage.
Speaker: I actually rode it for the first time last October, and I've been to Hollywood twice since then, and every time that coaster's blown me away. ah Number eight, Hyperia.
Speaker: I think our ERT session really solidified that. I still have found Fabled ERT session at this point. Yeah, it was so good. Number nine is Hyperion.
Speaker: I have them right next to each other. and ah We're at... Hollywood Nights, Matt and I were wearing, I was wearing a Hyperion shirt. Matt was wearing a Hyperion shirt. and And we were joking around about that. And number 10 is Skyrush.
Speaker: I love lot of Intamin Hypers in my top 10, I guess. But what can I say? They're they're good rides. That's a solid top 10. Yeah.
Speaker: there's nothing that's too hot of a take there aren't a lot of people that have fly in top thrill 2 as highly ranked as i do but there are people that do you know i talked to a bunch of people they're like oh yeah fly is also my number one and will be forever i think i think flies in my top 15 still yeah or top 20 at least yeah it's really hard when you get to a thousand to decide what to put up there it's like if it was a little mop If it was a little more... don't know what that is. I don't know if i acrobatic is the right word to use.
Speaker: If it was a bit more daring, I guess, in its elements, I think it would rank higher for me. But off the strength of just the world building in Rookburg alone, and yet how much more agile it is than BNM flyers, it does rank pretty highly. I can't remember where it is in my ranking, but it's it's high for me as well.
Speaker: yeah i've I've just always loved that flying feeling. you know I grew up at Kings Island with Firehawk. My grandparents lived down in San Diego, so I have a certain affinity for the Southern California parks. I think Tatsu was my first flying coaster, first B&M flying coaster. And of course that's the best B&M, at least thought as in the ones I've been on. I haven't been on Flying Dinosaur yet. It's coming I have a feeling you're going love that one. yeah I think I'll like that right a lot.
Speaker: Might break my top 10. I was going to say watch out top 10 is what I'm thinking. I think Bryant would agree with that too. Oh really? Yeah. I think that was his favorite coaster in Japan. I think it looks very good. think it was. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. I have fly at 12 top through two at 16. So still up there. Yeah. And I know you're also team Hyperion of Rizadra. Yes, I am. yeah don' I don't have any RMCs in my top 10 anymore, do i That's crazy, actually.
Speaker: oh well, that's new. Steel Vengeance is number 11 now that I wrote Pantherian. I'm very similar. i also have no RMCs in my top 10, and number 11 is Zadra. Oh, yeah. Nice.
Speaker: i have one RMC in my top 10 now, and it's Zadra. I know you two disagree with this take, but we rode Zadra and Steel Vengeance within a month of each other, and both Matt and I...
Speaker: liked Steel Vengeance more, having ridden them back to back. you the podcast The podcast can't see me like viciously shaking my head, no. but i I have my rant about Steel Vengeance on here often.
Speaker: i i The one thing I will say is it can be a little bit variable as far as what you get out of the right experience, if it's running fast or not. But if you get a ah good ride on Steel Vengeance, it is I think handily the best um RMC, especially even just the first half. But the second half is you know almost ah almost a cherry on top. of you get You get almost an entire RMC after the break run, a smaller scale RMC after the break run, a large scale RMC before the break run. It's such a good ride. It is definitely for sure the best RMC in Ohio.
Speaker: Oh, maybe the Midwest actually. I'll give it that.
Speaker: I'm sorry. It's hard to disagree with that one. Let's see. If it's Ohio, it's just Steel Vengeance. And then if it's Ohio, or if it's the Midwest... I was trying to think of the Midwest. Well, is Storm Chaser the Midwest or no? No.
Speaker: But you got Goliath. So you got Goliath. So it's Steel Vengeance and Goliath. And Fire Runner. Oh, well, yeah, Fire Runner. I would still i haven't ridden that, but I would probably still put Steel Vengeance over that.
Speaker: I have Fire Runner shockingly high. Yeah, Outlaw Run is outside the is outside the Midwest, so it doesn't count either. I have Zadra too.
Speaker: Is Missouri the Midwest? I don't know. i I wouldn't call the Ozarks the Midwest. I feel like part of Missouri is the Midwest, but not all of it. i don't know. oh
Speaker: St. Louis is kind of the Midwest, but when you get down to Branson, it's like this is not the Midwest. This is the South. I have Zadra at 2 and Steel Vengeance at 29. I'll just
Speaker: and that's so that that should does tell you how I feel about both. I was going to say Zadra is my 7 and then I think Steel Vengeance is somewhere in my 30s.
Speaker: Yeah, I have Steel Vengeance at 31. i will I will be a Steel Vengeance apologist.
Speaker: Do not ask this podcast about our feelings. and Clearly. Yeah. Jen isn't any better. I don't think. Oh, she hates it. Doesn't she? Yeah. Well, it's bill like she doesn't actually hate it but she hates it being ranked high. I feel like we had a big argument about this when we did the ah world cup of coasters, arguing what coasters represented the U S and we had to make a rule for one RMC and we ended up on iron Gwazi. Yeah. Hmm.
Speaker: I have Wildcat and Air Force above Iron Gwazi even. Wildcat, Air Force, and Zadra. Well, I have Wildcat, Air Force, and Gwazi over Steel Vengeance.
Speaker: You know, I have Zadra at 11, and i don't have another RMC until 20. Well, you're an RMC hater, so... Yeah, i know. My RMCs are kind of clustered in my rankings. So I have Zadra, Wildcat, Iron Gwazi, Air Force 1...
Speaker: um I'll rank those I consider those like the larger scale um RMCs and then ah then you have the other ones the smaller scale ones Twisted Timbers, Storm Chaser, Twisted Colossus New Texas Giant, Iron Rattler Iron Rattler's not really I mean track length wise it's short but it's a really big drop I love Iron Rattler it's an excellent ride and i I need that one i have I have four RMCs in my top 10.
Speaker: I thought I had three. No, I i have four. Zadra, Outlaw Run, Airyforce One, and Ion Gwazi.
Speaker: i am a huge fan of the the OG single rails. and just how forceful and and wild those are. I like Wonder Woman. I was not impressed with Railblazer as much. So I i was i was really curious it because I had heard people talking about how Wonder Woman ran better than Railblazer before it got its all like revamp and new trains and everything and everything like that. And now obviously, you know, post, you know, refurb and everything.
Speaker: I mean, the consensus I can only assume is that it's running much better. Last year, Railblazer ran really well for me. um After a couple of rides, the first the first couple of rides I got on it, I didn't really get it.
Speaker: And then I got back row and I was just like, oh, there it is. That's what it does. And then this past I went back to San Francisco very recently. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: it didn't it didn't really like blow me away like quite as much as as the lust as a last visit. So it's dropped down a bit my rankings. I wrote it, I think I was at that event.
Speaker: where You were at the the Wobble? Yeah. San Francisco. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I would have ridden it the same day as you. So if it was running, a then that probably affects my my thoughts on at my ranking.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm literally comparing 2020 Wonder Woman to 2025 Railblazer 2. So maybe um it's not fair, but I think they hold up. but We went back to Fiesta, Texas for Elstumble 2, and a bunch of people are saying that Wonder Woman was not what she used to be. And and that was my really? That was my second time at that park. But I disagreed. I thought, you know, maybe you can feel some of the transitions. It's maybe a little, I think, rough is maybe pushing it.
Speaker: ah But it's, I mean, as forceful as ever. Like, that that's what I like about that ride. Yeah.
Speaker: I just, I am obsessed with Fire Runner. And I want to make that my entire personality. That's one of the new ones. was going to say, how do how do you compare Firerunner? Because, I mean, like anyone that knows you like to any sort of degree knows why you love that ride so much.
Speaker: But how do you compare Firerunner to like any of the other, I guess, like prototype or prototype-esque single rail layouts that you've done?
Speaker: No, not even that. Have you ridden Stunt Pilots? have you have you written stunt pilot No. Okay. So, like, yeah, just okay, so just, yeah, like, Wonder Woman, Royal Blazer, etc.
Speaker: Um, I don't know, just, it felt more refined and a little bit more comfortable, but there were still some moments, like, there's one turn in it, like, we got, like, probably eight laps on it or something like that, because, you know, Lost Island. Um...
Speaker: yeah There's one turn where like every single time I shrieked because it was that intense of airtime. Immediately followed by a ridiculous airtime hill.
Speaker: yeah Ejector every time. it It does have the longer train as well. Yeah, it's got 12 cars. Have you ridden Stump Pilot? I know you're kind of up in the area. No, so... um that well Well, that's going to change soon. Yeah, it is for Kyle. It is going to change soon. yeah and chicagogo ever That was my home park when was in Missoula, three hours away. So I've i've spent some spent quite a bit of time riding Stump Pilot. I still like the OGs better, but I do think Stump Pilot...
Speaker: is still better than the like Jersey Devil Magic Mountain Wonder Woman layouts.
Speaker: Oh, I really liked... um i think i think I liked ah Magic Mountain Wonder Woman more than most people do. I found it really fun. like it's not as It's not as aggressive and like you know like punishing as the as the prototypes, but I find i find it really enjoyable.
Speaker: This is going to sound really weird. My favorite Raptor of all of them is Wonder Woman at Magic Mountain, and my least favorite is Jersey Devil. That's funny. And they're almost the same layout. I mean, they're... Other than turn to the break ground, they're the same layout. So, yeah I don't know what went wrong with Jersey Devil and what went right with Wonder Woman, but... Yeah.
Speaker: New Jersey? I don't know. Maybe. yeah Maybe it's New Jersey. Oh, sorry. i was just going to make a dumb comment. There's a song by Charlie Puth that dropped this year, and literally there's a lyric.
Speaker: The lyric of the song is like, there's nothing that fun to do in New Jersey. So I don't go back. Yeah. Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt. No, i I was just going to say, I said it about Steel Vengeance. It kind of almost applies to almost all RMCs in that they can be finicky.
Speaker: if you catch them in the A lot of times if you ride them in the morning, they're running slower. They get warmed up throughout the day. like we had Buzzbars did ERT on Iron Gwazi, and it was just running slow that night for some reason. we got We all got a bunch of rides on it, but no one was like,
Speaker: super blown away and i think that does affect my opinion of that that ride a little bit um because i've ridden it since then and all my rides after i did that ert have been better than the rides during yeah ert which is which is interesting uh so you know i've ridden wonder woman we did erd on that so i've ridden that quite a few times at magic mountain uh in different seats and everything but maybe i just haven't gotten the right ride on it where it where it's really hit
Speaker: I don't know. I'm excited for Stomp Powit now, though. It's a good time. i i don't know if they're still doing it. you You used to be able to like go in the single rider line. You pretty much always get the back car because they'll like load all the groups and then they'll pull the single riders in. That makes sense.
Speaker: Yeah. How many cars were in that train again? alex ten That one's 10. The OGs are 8. Wonder Woman, Railblazer, eight. Stunt Pilot's 10. Firerunner's 12 with the same layout Stunt Pilot. Interesting.
Speaker: the two bigger ones are 12. And Yoi, I think, Yoi thinks is a smaller train. I think that's seven or eight. I could be wrong.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, I'm interested. I'm interested and excited to ride Stunpilot and take photos of because it's gorgeous looking. That park is really pretty. And like, it's going to fit in so easily with the Hirschen profile.
Speaker: Oh yeah, that's that's been a Hershen Park since way before they actually purchased it. I would say. It's had to have fun. I did both the recently Silver Dollar City and Dollywood trains and I still think Silverwoods is is the best one. so definitely Really? Definitely make a point to go ride that train, yeah.
Speaker: I will now. It's a long train, it's like 40 minutes. i ah They own so much land out there. That's, ah i I would say, okay, so just in terms of the experience on both or like the actual trains themselves?
Speaker: ah Just, I'd say just the experience. I think Dollywood has the the best like train, train itself. Yeah, so so i could so I could agree i can agree with that. Like um ah that that that show in the middle of the Silverdile City Frisco train is really fun. but Yeah.
Speaker: that um that locomotive that Dollywood uses might just be one of the one of the just the nicest, the most beautiful one of the most beautiful looking trains just I've seen in general, let alone at theme park.
Speaker: i just I just went and rode a night flight and the train goes right by that area. And you hear it coming along on like chugga chugga chugga. It's like yeah this is the most train train I've ever seen. That sure is a train. That is indeed a train. The craniest train that ever did train.
Speaker: yeah That train got me in the eye with cold twice. Fun fact about the Dollywood Express, it accounts for like something crazy like 85-90% of Tennessee passenger rail traffic. but That's kind of depressing in a way. It is actually a very depressing statistic. You look at it in a certain way.
Speaker: Well guys, I think that brings us to the end of the episode. Thanks, Jen. You're welcome. was just called into full-on enthusiast talk for the last 20 minutes. Yeah. Hey, I mean, why not?
Speaker: So it goes. It's how we all met, so it makes sense. The guest is an enthusiast. Why wouldn't we? Yeah. It brings the most creativity to the podcast.
Speaker: Yes. everyone's got Everyone's got their field that they that they bring. I just happen to have a really cool job. Yeah. Well, thank you for coming on here to talk about your job with us.
Speaker: Yeah, thank you for having me. It sounds like I might be back kind of soon. we Probably. We'll see. Oh, yeah. No, super fun to learn about Anarchista for sure. is It's definitely... So so i actually I've actually had a um um a friend of mine, we don't talk about that much like often anymore, but a friend of mine who he who I used to work with at Busch Gardens Williamsburg, he um worked at Anarchista for a little bit before moving to Orlando. He works at Universal now, but he worked at Anarchista for a little bit. um
Speaker: So I've always been aware Anikista but um never actually known just like you know to the depth that we went into um in this recording um just like just what all it entails and you know what it stands for and everything so it was good to learn about it finally for sure Yeah. and And I say this as, you know, even before I so i worked for the park, I had this opinion. It's it's very underrated. it's It's super well themed, very well landscaped, very well manicured. It's definitely worth checking out if you're if you're in Gatlinburg.
Speaker: Yeah. Visit Anakista, everybody. Yeah. Even for nate and Allison, there there's so much new at the park, even in just the past three years. You got to yeah got to come check it out again. We will, for sure. Yeah.
Speaker: I still need to go to Ober and it's kind of next door. so Oh yeah. you can You can walk from the Anakista tram station to the Ober tram station. ye ah Thank you to everyone for listening. Hope you learned something. Hope you want to go visit Anakista if you have not already.
Speaker: um Let me just toot on my finger. He's been very positive. So he wants to get his words in as well. I hungi. He has so much food available to him. Sorry. Um, as always want to give a shout out to our Patreon members for all of their support of our podcast. So thank you to Chris, Jeff, Alexander, and Barbara, um, for all of their support.
Speaker: We love you guys. And you help make this happen. Yeah. know We had to say thank you too. Um, so yeah. Uh, hashtag keep thinking inverted.
Speaker: Um, And we will see y'all next time. was about to try to work a bear pun in there at the last minute, but I couldn't think of it. Bear with me. Bear with me as we finish this episode. episode ah Yeah, we will see you guys all next time.
Speaker: Peace. Bye. Bye.
