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33 | In Praise of Sacred Greeks with Dr. Lyman Montgomery
2 Plays2 seconds ago
As people continue to renounce and denounce their Divine Nine fraternities and sororities, Dr. Lyman Montgomery continues to push back...hard. He doesn't argue, he brings receipts. In part one of this conversation, Lyman talks about his motivation for founding Sacred Greeks, the inconsistencies of renouncing and denouncing logic, and more.
About the Guest
Dr. Lyman Montgomery is the founder of SacredGreekslife.com, a faith-centered platform dedicated to helping members of Black Greek Letter Organizations follow Jesus with clarity, integrity, and confidence. Through biblical teaching, cultural insight, and honest dialogue, he equips believers to navigate the intersection of faith and Greek life without fear, shame, or confusion. His work challenges distorted narratives about Christianity and Greekdom while calling believers to live as salt and light in every space God assigns.
Dr. Montgomery has written more than eight books and has been featured in leading business and leadership magazines for his work in coaching, compliance, and organizational excellence. He is a sought-after conference speaker known for blending theological depth, cultural awareness, and practical leadership strategies that transform both individuals and institutions. He is the owner of Focused Driven Compliance and Focused Driven Lifestyle Coaching, where he advises organizations and leaders on achieving clarity, sustainability, and excellence in both mission and operations.
An active member of Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity Inc., Dr. Montgomery brings a unique voice to conversations at the intersection of faith, culture, and brotherhood. His life and leadership journey were featured in the internationally acclaimed and award-winning documentary UnMasking Hope, which chronicles his commitment to healing, identity, and purposeful living. He is a devoted husband and proud father of three sons, and his life’s mission is to help others discover that they do not have to abandon their culture to follow Christ, but can instead redeem, reclaim, and repurpose it for His glory.
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Transcript
Introduction to Ethocast and Eddie's Leadership Experience
00:00:07
Speaker
Welcome to Ethocast, a podcast about sound leadership practices to boost the life in college fraternities and sororities. I'm Eddie Francis, presenter of Followership to Leadership and the D9 Leadership Blueprint, presentations designed to help Greeks become more ethical and effective leaders. I'll share lessons learned from my college days, my career journey and leadership research.
00:00:33
Speaker
This is Ethocast leadership to the letter. And thank you so much for joining me on Ethocast. I'm Eddie Francis. As always, I am more than pleased to have you join me on this episode and definitely.
00:00:49
Speaker
Definitely pleased to have you join me on the podcast
Addressing Spiritual Disagreements in Divine Nine
00:00:52
Speaker
itself. Hey, do me a favor. Please share this podcast with folks and especially share this episode, which I'm going to tell you about in just a little bit, because it's about divine nine renouncing and denouncing. In the meantime, Ethocast is brought to you by Edify Ventures, LLC, publishers of the D9 Leadership Blueprint, Personal Leadership Ubuntu, and Collective Impact, the e-book that you can check out the free excerpt for by going to D9LeadershipBlueprint.com.
00:01:25
Speaker
calm So D9 renouncing and denouncing, that would be people who are leaving their divine eye fraternities and sororities because they have spiritual disagreements. We'll put it that way.
00:01:41
Speaker
That is something that is still happening. It is still a thing. As a matter of fact, I talked about it on two episodes of Ethocast, episodes Gamma 3 and episode Epsilon 5.
00:01:52
Speaker
five And I actually found this brother, um
Introduction to Dr. Lyman Montgomery and His Views
00:01:56
Speaker
Dr. Lyman Montgomery. As a matter of fact, he and I or speaking colleagues. And let me tell you something, Lyman is not having it with the renouncing and the denouncing. He's a leadership coach.
00:02:08
Speaker
He is a speaker. He's a consultant. But you know what? He's also an author. And here is the big thing. This man is most definitely a Christian.
00:02:21
Speaker
He leaves no doubt. As a matter of fact, by the time you are finished listening to this episode, you are going to have one question for yourself about the people renouncing and denouncing, and that is was really good.
00:02:38
Speaker
Let's get into this episode of EthelCast. The views expressed on EthelCast do not necessarily reflect the views of the hosts, guests, or any entities with which this podcast's participants are affiliated. Questions, comments, email eddie at eddiefrancis.com.
00:02:56
Speaker
And thank you so much for joining me on Ethocast. I'm Eddie Francis, of course. And joining me is the good doctor himself, Dr. Lyman Montgomery. um this is ah This is a brother who I had the opportunity to meet. And Lyman, when you started rolling and telling me.
00:03:15
Speaker
about what you were seeing and renouncing and denouncing in the D9. um i was immediately taken by everything that you said. i don't even know if we have enough time to even cover everything that we have to say about this.
Dr. Lyman's Journey with Phi Beta Sigma
00:03:29
Speaker
But look, let's start with the let's start with the with the biggest part of the story and the basic part of the story, the foundational part. um Tell me about your journey. What led you to become a man of Phi Beta Sigma?
00:03:41
Speaker
Yeah, first of all, let me say thank you for having me on your podcast. It's always good to be with family, regardless, you know, you're first cousin, second cousin, but definitely your family, part of the D9 family. And so my journey started out kind of interesting. um When I landed on the campus of Ohio University back in 1986, as a freshman, I was a young preacher.
00:04:07
Speaker
And I didn't know a lot about fraternity. I couldn't tell the difference between an Alpha Phi Alpha or Mega Psi Phi, let alone a Sigma or Zeta. To me, they were all in one group. And the only fraternities I knew was from Animal Days, right? Animal House, right? You know, walking around with togas, acting crazy, doing stupid stuff. So that was my...
00:04:27
Speaker
ideology of fraternities and I would preach revivals on campus and everybody was going to hell you know was one them fire and brimstone young preachers and and because I didn't understand and so ah the way God would have it is my resident assistant my RA was a Zeta named Valerie And she would sit down and you know talk to me about Phi Beta Sigma. And and again, i was had my mind made up, no, not interested. I'm not going buy my friends. I think it's stupid, you know running around campus, you know doing this stupid stuff.
00:05:04
Speaker
And she said, I want you to meet someone by the name of Robert Saunders, who was the director of the Gospel Voices of Faith and was also a minister in the same organization that I was, the Church of God in Christ. So that got my attention.
00:05:18
Speaker
And so Robert and I, we sat down, we met, and he asked me a very simple but perplexed question. He said, Lyman, have you done your research? Mm-hmm.
00:05:32
Speaker
And i i it stunned me. i'm I said, um don't need to do no research. He's like, no, no. He said, wait a minute. He said, didn't your Bible say to study, to show yourself approved?
00:05:45
Speaker
i said, ooh, he hit me with the word. Oh, he got you. He got me good, bro. So I began to study. And I began to look at what was it about Greek letter organizations that I had an issue with?
00:06:01
Speaker
And the second thing I did, I began to watch the other fraternities and sororities on campus. And what I noticed, man, was a stark contrast between how the Sigmas carried themselves compared it to all the other ones.
00:06:17
Speaker
I would ask people, say, what what can you tell about the Sigmas? And two themes a row. They just a bunch of smart nerds, but they can step up. What's bad about that?
00:06:28
Speaker
They're smart and they can step. Yeah. And so then I began to just watch them and they invited me to an interest meeting. I went to the interest meeting. It was very organized.
00:06:40
Speaker
They didn't talk about other fraternities. They didn't talk down anyone. Matter of fact, they even say it. we encourage you to go to other smokers so that you can make an informed decision.
00:06:54
Speaker
I said, what? Yeah, that's crazy. And so um I got invited to be what that time they had a Squires clubs, like the pre-pledged club before you become a Crescent.
00:07:06
Speaker
And I was really impressed with how they care, you know, talked about business. They talked about community service. They talked about leadership qualities. And then when I got invited to to join the Crescent Club, which is the pledge process, I remember the interview.
00:07:24
Speaker
And during the interview process, they said, listen, is there anything that we need to know before you go online that you will not, that's deal breaker for you?
00:07:35
Speaker
And I said, yes, three things. I said, number number one, I would never drink. They said, no problem. I said, number two, I would never engage in any immoral business. or illegal activities.
00:07:48
Speaker
No problem. I said, number three, I will not bow before anyone, any gods, any deities, or any altars. They said, we don't have any altars.
00:07:58
Speaker
I'm like, oh, okay, well, I'm good. And that's what intrigued me about Phi Beta Sigma.
Impressions of Phi Beta Sigma's Achievements
00:08:06
Speaker
And so to sum it up, I would say, number one, I had to do my research, not just based on assumption.
00:08:13
Speaker
And then the second thing, I had to watch the fruit that was on the tree because the fruit is only as good as the root. Yeah. Yeah. And what I saw time and time again, man, where these brothers were consistent, they led in the high, not just the black Greek, but the white ones they had the highest GPA of all the Greeks. They had the highest number of community service awards than any other Greeks, black or white on campus. And they had probably the most
00:08:46
Speaker
ah number of people that had nothing bad to say about them other than they smart. yeah that bunch of nerdy They ain't cool, man. ah said well What do I have do with building up the community?
00:09:01
Speaker
Just being cool. Right. And that's what led me to five better sigma, man, is that they were scholars. Yeah, we could step. We could hold our own. We weren't the biggest. We weren't trying to be the coolest.
00:09:13
Speaker
But we led with counted academics and community service. ah I mean, listen, I can attest to the stepping thing, if nothing else.
00:09:25
Speaker
Because when I was in college, man, Loyola University New Orleans. Oh, my goodness. Your frat brother's from Dillard. And oh man, who was it? was Dillard and Xavier. Dillard and Xavier kind of went at it.
00:09:39
Speaker
But that step team from Dillard gave us fits. They gave everybody fits I mean, these brothers, let me tell you a lot. These brothers came out one show with blue pajamas with white polka dots. And some of them had white pajamas with were blue polka dots. And everybody started clowning them. And then they started stepping.
00:09:58
Speaker
And they had those canes. And they did they did the beat from the show, Dougie Fresh. They did the beat with the show with the canes. And everybody just shut up. We were like, ooh, it's cool.
00:10:09
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, even now, man, if you get this one, one of your frat brother, he does a little skit of all the Greeks. And I know you'll forget his name, but he's an alpha brother.
00:10:20
Speaker
Probably chess. You probably talk about chess. Yes, chess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every time there's a sigma, he's like in third before stepping.
00:10:31
Speaker
So something that you you mentioned is that you would not do anything ungodly. You know, one of the funniest moments I had after I crossed, um and just so people know, Lyman and I, we just found out that we crossed like 366 days apart. Literally, March 9th, 88th for Lyman. March 10th, 89th for me.
00:10:51
Speaker
And one of the funniest things that happened, I'll never get this. I was ah in the food court and went to go buy a burger or something like that. And one of the women who was ah was ah at the cash register, she said, oh, you you in that frat. and And just for context, my chapter was the first black frat chapter chartered at Loyola, New Orleans. And I was on the third line for the chapter.
00:11:15
Speaker
And so we were brand new on the yard. And this sister goes, oh, yeah, you in that frat, right? And I say, yeah, i'm i' I'm an alpha. And she goes, yeah, don't y'all worship that thing? And I said, what thing? And she said, that lion looking thing. And I said, oh, you mean the Sphinx?
00:11:31
Speaker
And she said, yeah. i said, well, we don't worship it. we We're not bowing down before
Sacred Greeks Movement and Christianity Concerns
00:11:36
Speaker
the thing. I was like, it's symbolism, but we don't worship it. So I say that because one thing that you have done is you have started the Sacred Greeks movement. Yes. What led you to it?
00:11:49
Speaker
Actually, what led to the sacred group movement actually was a spillover of my experience um wrestling with the same question that a lot of Christian wrestle with. Can I be a member of a Greek letter organization and still love God? Or are they odds with each other? And I'll be honest with you.
00:12:13
Speaker
I sat back for about three years and I started noticing more and more of an uptick on social media of people denouncing and renouncing. Yeah. So two years ago, i said, you know, let me let me let me see if I can wrap my.
00:12:28
Speaker
ah head around what's going on. So I held a a Zoom call, about 237 people on the Zoom call. And what I did that I thought was interesting, I opened it up for those that were for and those that were against, and I gave equals time.
00:12:46
Speaker
And probably about 60% were totally against and about 40% didn't see an issue. And what I concluded from that is that the Christian community was split.
00:13:02
Speaker
And I kept waiting for someone in the faith community to write a book. because i i was reason like I saw a lot of anecdotal information, a lot of opinion, but I didn't see any real research in this area of answering that one question. Can you be Greek?
00:13:20
Speaker
And be a Christian that was in the affirmative of yes, you can. Now there were books out there that talked about, no, that Christianity and fraternity sorority, they want to throw in Masonic lodges and everything else.
00:13:35
Speaker
But I didn't see the other side. And I remember waiting a year and I was talking with a partner of mine and I said, man, I'm really struggling. I said, because where are the theologians that are members of Vine Nine?
00:13:51
Speaker
How come they written anything? He said, lime because you've got to write the book. I said, what me? He said, you've written eight ah of them all already. I'm like, well, you got a point. So I spent the next year, man, just really researching what the scripture had to say, as well as interviewing a lot of folks, man, in the divine nine.
00:14:11
Speaker
And I came up with a framework that I called the proof framework that looks at what were the major objections that that most Christians had with fraternities and sorority. And there are five major ah objections. Number one, and yeah and I don't care, I've looked at probably 3,000 videos of those who have renounced, denounced, or comments in social media. and it narrow And you narrow it down to these top five. Number one, they look at the pledge process.
00:14:47
Speaker
And it as they see, that's ungodly. You are subjecting folks to humiliation. You're subjecting folks to, and what they're looking at is the negative side of it. Right.
00:15:00
Speaker
But my wife, for example, she was never hazed. No one ever swung on her. No one ever dehumanized her. Nothing. And I've met so many others. Now, back in the day, we say, oh man, they skating.
00:15:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. plan But then you begin to look at it and say, wait a minute. No, they did it right. Because can you imagine your founders talking about getting the cut?
00:15:25
Speaker
No, ludicrous. Then you find out that a lot of the issues with hazing didn't come about until soldiers returned from World War II and they began to bring that militarization into the pledge process. For example, your frat.
00:15:44
Speaker
If you look at the history, Apple Phi Alpha, y'all were known for doing serenades, man. Y'all would stand out there, be sharp, high intellect. You see what I'm saying? And would serenade community service.
00:15:55
Speaker
It wasn't all just walking in line. And so the whole concept of pledging, as we see the negative side of it, really didn't enter into the lexicon until post-World War II, when African-Americans had the GI Bill, went to college, and they brought that militarization of boot camp style yeah into the
Historical Context of Fraternity Pledge Process
00:16:16
Speaker
pledge process. Prior to that, it didn't exist. Yeah. Now, if you look at what happened post-1990, where all the Divine Nine decided to end above-ground pledge process, walking in lines and chancing out all this stuff, the problem with that, it went underground.
00:16:34
Speaker
yeah And so what I tell people is you have to look at the original intent of a thing, not the aberration of the thing. Or the perversional thing, because I think we would agree if our founders were to be resurrected and they were to show up in 2026 and look at what they had established, probably I don't recognize this. and Listen, I mean, to your point, I can only imagine, you know, one of our founders or one of your founders saying, what what's this? that What are you doing? What are you wearing? What's this? What are you doing? Why? Why y'all have these boots up? I can only imagine that they would have some questions about attire, makeup. I mean, just all kinds of stuff. Right. Here's something that I'm wondering, though.
00:17:24
Speaker
And this is a sensitive topic for the divine nine. But if you have people who are saying, I don't like the pledge process and theoretically pledging isn't supposed to be happening, then that means that there are probably a lot of folks out there still breaking the rules too absolutely to an extreme extent.
00:17:43
Speaker
Absolutely. And you're always going to have a percentage. finish But now. If you were to ask me what percentage of those that are probably breaking the rules, I think it's a small percentage.
00:17:54
Speaker
I would wonder. But I do believe what I do believe is majority are following the rules. They do an intake process correctly. But you and I both know negativity gets the attention.
00:18:06
Speaker
That's what gets fed into the media. Those are the headlines. that the media picks up on. When the last time you see a story about the great works that fraternities and sororities do? No, a lot of times what we hear is so-and-so died because of hazing. ah But then when you look at it on the scale, all right, of black and white, there are more white fraternities that die from alcohol poisoning that never make it into the media. Mm-hmm.
00:18:40
Speaker
But when you look at the percentage of those, now any death or any injury during the pledge process is unacceptable in 2026. It should never happen.
00:18:53
Speaker
um And that leads me to number two, which is in that proof. We had the pledge process, the R stands for the ritual.
Parallels Between Fraternity and Biblical Rituals
00:19:00
Speaker
They look at our rituals and they say, wait a minute, that's not godly.
00:19:05
Speaker
But then when you look at scripture, the scripture is filled with rituals. For a example, they had what was called the purity ritual. They had a salt ritual. Apostle Paul shaved his head. He was ah he was a right? Right.
00:19:19
Speaker
a christian right But he has shaved his head during the time of purification, which was a Jewish rite ritual that he as a Christian participated in. So rituals in and of themselves are not evil.
00:19:36
Speaker
That leads to the oath, the oath. Most people believe that the oaths that we take join ourselves to some type of demonic spirit because let's say during, I use five better signals as an example. Mm-hmm.
00:19:49
Speaker
During our ritual, there's a story of the traveler. And it's a story of this traveler who goes to Mount Olympus and there Mars was in charge.
00:20:01
Speaker
But because he was a god of war, we did not want to follow um his leading. So Athena, the goddess of intellect, the goddess of wisdom, right?
00:20:13
Speaker
So we chose to follow that symbol, right? of wisdom and intellect rather than the God of war. Now, there's a part of that that talks about the cup of pain or the bitter herbs. All right.
00:20:29
Speaker
And what it teaches you in that ritual is that no matter who you are, every one of us have to drink from the cup of pain and bitterness.
00:20:40
Speaker
But because you have lying brothers that have also tasted of the cup of pain and bitterness, that when you're going through a hard time, guess what? You can relate. You say, listen, man,
00:20:52
Speaker
Tough times don't always last, but tough people do. Yeah. Okay. And so again, when you look at the rituals, they are metaphorical, right? When you look at, and I use an example, if you were to say that the rituals in and of themselves are evil, then why do you allow your children to watch cartoons?
00:21:15
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Spider-Man, Superman is the God. Yeah. But don't hear nobody preaching against Superman. You see what i'm saying? The Incredible Hulk, Thor.
00:21:27
Speaker
so So that's really interesting because one of the things that i'm I'm wondering as I'm listening to you is how do people get lost so easily in a plot? For instance, you have all of this knowledge of scripture and all these people who are saying that they're denouncing and renouncing claim to have the same kind of knowledge, yet they are missing something.
00:21:48
Speaker
the same they're missing something that both of you looked at you both you both know these stories you both read it in the bible how are they missing that context is everything and me give you clear example of what i mean by context is everything okay you could take the scripture a simple scripture, most people know it, which is John 3, 16, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, and whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but you have everlasting life.
00:22:24
Speaker
Most people can quote that, if you ask the second part, whom was Jesus speaking to? They couldn't tell you. yeah Jesus was speaking, and this is very important, Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus at night.
00:22:38
Speaker
Nicodemus was part of the Sanhedrin. Jesus spoke against the Sanhedrin. But here's the funny part about that story. Even though Jesus was critical,
00:22:51
Speaker
of the Sanhedrin critical of the Pharisees. He never told Nicodemus to leave being a part of the Sanhedrin or being a Pharisee, even though he was critical of it.
00:23:06
Speaker
So the point that I made, you could be critical of a thing, but that doesn't mean you need to leave a thing. Matter of fact, in John 15, Jesus prayed this. He said, father, I pray that you not take them away from the world.
00:23:20
Speaker
but you protect them from the evil one. So why we trying to run away from the world? When Jesus prayed to the father, don't pull them out from amongst him, but protect them from the evil one. Now, let me follow up real quick on Nicodemus.
00:23:37
Speaker
Going back to John 3, 16, we love quote that God so loved the world. He he gave his only begotten son, right? He's speaking to Nicodemus, who's part of an evil Um, but Jesus called you all dressed up in white linen with the inside. You're full of dead men bones, right?
00:23:56
Speaker
The reason that Jesus needed Nicodemus to stay in the Sanhedrin, because he understood that when he died and was placed in Joseph of Arimathea, who was also a frat brother, if I could use of Nicodemus.
00:24:15
Speaker
Fraternity just means brothers. Yeah. Brotherhood. Yeah. but They were in the same fraternity called the fraternity of the Sanhedrin. All right, I'm make this real plain to bring it up to date. Right. Remember, the Bible said it was Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus that went to get the body of Jesus from Pilate. Now, if they had broken fellowship, there would be no relationship.
00:24:38
Speaker
So the reason that these people get confused, they want to break fellowship. And still try to have a relationship. Well, how can you break fellowship if you see me as being evil, but you're to try to save me?
00:24:51
Speaker
We have no relationship. Yeah. Yeah. my position is this, is that the reason God have us in fraternities and sororities is to bring light to dark places. Yeah. You would be amazed at the number of frat and soror that have called me in the middle of the night and said, frat, I'm going through, man. I need prayer.
00:25:13
Speaker
Yeah. Man, tell me more about this Jesus guy, man. Yeah. And you've been able to lead them. Now, if I'm not there, that wouldn't happen. that that leads to the oath, which speaks to the oath that we take.
00:25:27
Speaker
Again, they think that's tied somehow to deities, but they forget what Jesus said. This is very important. Answer your question directly. Do you realize that unless you attach belief and faith In action, nothing happened. Jesus said he could do very little in his hometown of Nazareth. Why? Because of their unbelief. So you mean to tell me if the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, could do very little because their unbelief, I made an oath. Let's say for, I'll give the argument. Let's say I did make an an unconscious oath or pledge to something or deity that I didn't know.
00:26:11
Speaker
You're telling me I open myself up? That goes against scripture. Because what a lot of churches practice, and this is going to get underneath a lot of folks skiing, a lot of people practice what's called incantation magic.
00:26:28
Speaker
Now you say, well, preacher, what's incantation magic? Incantation magic is where you believe words in and of themselves have power.
00:26:40
Speaker
It's like casting a spell. Abracadabra. Yeah. But we know words in and of themselves have no power unless we what? We lend power to it. To the words, yeah. i get to you you See, that's the only way that takes effect.
00:26:56
Speaker
Jesus said that he came, he preached the word, but because of their unbelief, it had little effect. And that's Jesus, Lord and Savior. So that lets me know I can be in a ritual, even if I said something that may have opened me up or you believe opened you up.
00:27:17
Speaker
You know what you have to do? Just say, Jesus, if I open any door, close it in Jesus' name. It's done. Yeah, yeah. It's the same argument. Yeah, go ahead. No, I was to say, so we we need to get to the second O and the F. And so, cause we left off on oath.
Secrecy vs. Privacy in Fraternities
00:27:33
Speaker
Yeah, obscurity. Okay. i The secrecy.
00:27:36
Speaker
Oh, this the big one. yeah Why y'all operating in darkness? The Bible said anything in darkness need to come to the light. Yeah, why why don't you tell me what happened to your ritual? Why don't you tell me what happened? If it was on the up and up, you could talk about it. Open up up your pledge book. Show it to me. What you hiding for?
00:27:55
Speaker
You know what? and be And let me tell you, ah what what I do, when people say that to me, I was like, well, give me a social security number. And it's just like, well, no, go no. said, well, why not? I mean, if you and I have an honest relationship, you should be able to give me your social security number. Shouldn't Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, that's not the same thing.
00:28:14
Speaker
There's a difference between secrecy and privacy. oh What we, the things you honor, you protect.
00:28:28
Speaker
If you look in your Bible, Judges chapter 12, the two kingdoms at war, and they came up with this word called shibboleth.
00:28:39
Speaker
Shibboleth was a secret code word that they under understood that if you were not from that region, you wouldn't be able to say it.
00:28:51
Speaker
And so that's how they could tell who was freeing from foe. So they had they had a secret password, go mob, okay?
00:29:02
Speaker
People wanna know what these things mean, but the problem is if I told you, you still wouldn't believe it because you think it has to have some nefarious meaning to it.
00:29:15
Speaker
Let me give you good example. If you ask the average person, what does the word money mean? What's the hidden meaning behind money?
00:29:27
Speaker
They will look at you like you create the hidden meaning. Well, what does money mean? Where does it come from? What is it? Money means absolutely nothing.
00:29:38
Speaker
Is what that that's is, what the United States give value to it that makes it worth something, right? That's why if I were to give you ah a ruble from India, you would look at it and throw it on. I know what this is. Why? It has no value to it.
00:29:56
Speaker
You see what I'm saying? But now if you attach a value to it, now it has worth. You see? yeah And so the problem with looking at the secrets and and wanting to know, well, what are they? Why don't you reveal them? Jesus said, it's cast not your pearls but before swine.
00:30:16
Speaker
The same way, to your point, I tell people this. there's what We have what's called proprietary information. If you work for the federal government, if you work for a banking institute, if you work for your employer, you cannot take their proprietary information and publicize it without suffering perhaps two consequences, getting fired and probably persecuted prosecuted by the federal law.
00:30:43
Speaker
Yeah. Why? It is protected information. Our founders put together information to protect us, to protect the organization.
00:30:56
Speaker
You see what I'm saying? And it has every right to be protected. It's not secret. It's protected. Yeah. So they have a problem with our founders. The first thing they say, well, they were Masons. Right.
00:31:09
Speaker
or yeah you know they were they weren't preachers. And then you know what say, that's what's called a genetic fallacy. We look at the origin of something and you form an opinion about it. But they use that same argument. I say, but wait a minute, you went to a university. we think that word degree came from?
00:31:26
Speaker
Came out of my son. Do you realize that our educational system is based on masonry, trade unions based on masonry, prison systems based on masonry?
00:31:37
Speaker
So, and look for black folks, look at the history. You know why a majority of blacks in the South became Masons? It had nothing to do with believing they was gonna rule the world. It's because burial insurance. White companies, white insurance companies did not insure black sharecroppers.
00:31:55
Speaker
But if you were a member of a Masonic lodge, one of the benefits, you got burial and life and business insurance. That's why my granddaddy down in in ah Alabama allla became amazing, the insurance.
00:32:08
Speaker
Hmm. Hmm. So at the end of the day, I mean, to me, I'm one of the um one one of my opinions is that we all bear responsibility somewhere. Yes. And so in the divine nine on our side, where do we bear responsibility in this renouncement denouncement discussion?
Aligning Chapters with Founding Principles
00:32:26
Speaker
I think the biggest thing is going back to relationship. You'll probably find a third of people that have a problem. They've been hurt, man. They've been hurt by a brother, hurt by a sister. The chapter did not live up to their high ideas of brotherhood, scholarship, and service. All right. I've experienced that, man. I've i've experienced, man, being hurt by a brother.
00:32:51
Speaker
My son's experienced it as well. You know, where we weren't treated well. You know, um but again, that's where the chapters, man, really have to say, are we congruent?
00:33:03
Speaker
You know, now, are you going to have you going to brothers meeting that do crazy things? Yes. But what I say is you look at the organization as the whole.
00:33:14
Speaker
And you look at and say, listen, and this is what I challenge chapter presidents is to make sure, number one, that the way you present yourself is in line in alignment with the way your charter and your founders intended for you to act.
00:33:32
Speaker
yeah You can't tell me that the founder of Omega Si-5 running around barking like dogs. You can't to tell me that. Matter of fact, my pastor is an Omega.
00:33:43
Speaker
He'll tell you a minute. He won't take a picture with no chew with a tongue hanging out and all that barking. He said when he was made, they didn't do none of that at Wiley College. He said, I don't know what that's the where that came from. I've talked to some old heads, Omegas, and they're 60s and 70s. They're like, man, I don't know where this barking came we didn't do that when I was made. But that's just one example. You can look at the signals, and they got some crazy stuff they're doing. I'm sure the alphas. Oh, we do. You know, that and if you look at you say, wait a minute, that i don't know what that is.
00:34:14
Speaker
Yeah. You know, that crazy, you know, um this whole notion, man, of being made versus being paper. That's crazy. All of us paper.
00:34:26
Speaker
All of us paper. Well, you know what? so That's the stuff right there that we need to get do away with of making this division between the old heads talking about our war stories and the new brothers that we don't give them the same level of respect because they didn't have the same process that we had. That's how i think you address it.
00:34:45
Speaker
And, you know, one of the things that I've told my frat brothers linemen is, listen, man, if if you want to go do the underground stuff, you know, have at it, you're going to be the one who's in in trouble. but But let me just tell you what I have learned over all these years, because I have been an alumni chapter president.
00:35:02
Speaker
And what I've learned is you go through your process. It can either be a 12 week waste of time or it can be four weeks of pure knowledge and yeah understanding. And the ones who have four weeks of pure knowledge and understanding, they're going to come out and they're going to be the ones who are going to do things that you need them to do. Absolutely. I know what it's like to sit in a chapter meeting and have the brother who was quote unquote made right, not give, and not do no help, no help.
00:35:33
Speaker
But the paper brother, anything I need, I got it. I've seen it time and time again. Also, as a former ah ah alumni president, man, I've seen it time and time again. of Undergrad brothers that was made, man, went through a process.
00:35:48
Speaker
You couldn't get them to show up at a car wash. And then they're arguing. They're arguing with the brother, man, that went through intake, did it the right way, shows up for everything, Stay financial, but you got a problem with him because, quote, he wasn't made right. Yeah, that's it. That's the insanity. 30 years post 1990. We still talking about made versus paper and insane.
Reasons for Renouncing Memberships
00:36:15
Speaker
And in those cases, the people who are renouncing and denouncing, you're making an argument for them. You're making an argument for them. And the big thing that I know is about a lot of the people that renounce, two things that that shows up about their personal identity. Number one, they did not have a strong relationship with Christ while they were plaguing or doing the process.
00:36:34
Speaker
The second thing you would find out, they didn't even have a relationship with the organization after they left college. There was an AKA, former AKA, She gets on there to to formally denounce being a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha. And she said in her own mouth, I haven't been active since I left college in 1979. Yeah.
00:37:00
Speaker
I said to myself, you've been deactivated. Ethocast is a four-hour edification limited series. If you like what you heard, like, follow, and share this podcast for more leadership insights for your fraternity or sorority chapter. To find out how your campus or a campus near you can book followership to leadership or the D9 Leadership Blueprint, contact me today, eddie at eddiefrancis.com. Until next time,
00:37:29
Speaker
Spread brotherly and sisterly love everywhere you go.