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31 | The D9 Marches to the Beat of a Different Drum with Tish Norman
15 Plays15 days ago
As a proud member of a Divine Nine sorority, Tish Norman is aware that the stakes are high. That is why she is steadfast in her belief that members of D9 fraternities and sororities should recognize that we march to the beat of a different drum. In a powerful conversation, Tish talks about how the pressure of being knowledgeable, constantly watched, and strategic in recruiting may seem unfair, but it's real.
About the Guest
Tish Norman is a native of Cleveland, Ohio, and a proud member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Inc. She is the executive director of Transforming Leaders Now Inc., an educational consulting company that specializes in college and career readiness, women’s leadership, and the African-American experience. Tish started her career in the classroom in Cincinnati, teaching 3rd and 4th grade. After being crowned Miss Black Cincinnati, she took her gifts to Hollywood. Whether it was commercials, music videos, game shows, documentaries, or sitcoms, Tish did it all! After 10 years in Hollywoodland, Tish found herself back in the classroom.
Out of an amalgamation of all of her professional experiences in education, pageantry, and acting, one day, Tish found her sweet spot on stage, delivering a keynote to 500 high school students. She loved it! Now, almost 20 years later, as a professional speaker and having delivered over 1000 presentations, Tish’s unparalleled energy, delivery style, and stirring keynotes have become favorites among universities, associations, and leadership conferences from coast to coast.
Tish is a contributing author of several articles and three books: From Mediocre to Magnificent, Leading the Way, and BLACKOUT: Real Issues and Real Solutions to Real Challenges Facing Black Student Affairs Professionals. A graduate of Kentucky State University, Tish has a master’s in education from Pepperdine University and is a doctoral student in Pan-African studies, where her research focuses on memory and the Black sorority. Based in Atlanta and having spoken in 45 states and 14 countries, Tish still maintains an active speaking schedule, keynoting at dozens of campuses and leadership conferences every year.
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Transcript
Introduction to Ethocast
00:00:07
Speaker
Welcome to Ethocast, a podcast about sound leadership practices to boost the life in college fraternities and sororities. I'm Eddie Francis, presenter of Followership to Leadership and the D9 Leadership Blueprint, presentations designed to help Greeks become more ethical and effective leaders. I'll share lessons learned from my college days, my career journey and leadership research.
00:00:33
Speaker
This is Ethocast. Leadership to the letter. Welcome to Ethocast. I'm Eddie Francis.
About Edified Ventures
00:00:40
Speaker
Ethocast is presented by Edified Ventures LLC, publishers of the d nine Leadership Blueprint, Personal Leadership Bumbuntu and Collective Impact. If you want a free excerpt of that e-book, then go to D9LeadershipBlueprint.com.
00:00:58
Speaker
And my guest for this edition of Ethocast is someone who is really
Meet Tish Norman
00:01:04
Speaker
special. Her name is Tish Norman. um She's a keynote speaker, author, emcee, corporate trainer, higher education consultant. And so I am pleased to have my dear sister, Tish Norman, as a guest on this episode of Ethocast. The views expressed on Ethocast do not necessarily reflect the views of the host's guests, or any entities with which this podcast's participants are affiliated. Questions, comments, email eddie at eddiefrancis.com.
00:01:36
Speaker
Thank you so much for joining me on Ethocast. It is my distinct pleasure. It is an honor. It is a privilege to have this sister on Ethocast.
00:01:51
Speaker
I've known her. Do you want me to throw out the decades? We both still hot, young, and sexy. You know what? That's what I'm talking about. tish Dorman, my good sister, how you doing?
00:02:06
Speaker
I am successful. How are you? I'm doing... oh goodness. Okay. I'm going have to use that. but See, this is why this is this is why i need to talk to you more often so I can get i can get some of that on me.
00:02:21
Speaker
um Tish tish is you know, Tish is an outstanding speaker um and she is someone who has a passion a passion for helping to cultivate the next generation of leaders. And this is not, this is not me blowing in smoke. No, I really, really mean that. And, um, and Tisha, I've always admired your energy. Always, always, always with all this energy that you bring to the stage, whenever you speak to fraternity and sorority members, um,
00:02:54
Speaker
What what drives the commitment that you have to play that part in generating this next generation of leaders?
Intellectual Conversations in Greek Life
00:03:03
Speaker
So I can attribute this to, of course, not only let me back up. Eddie, thank you for having these conversations. It's just timely um living in an in an anti-intellectual America. It is timely for us to have discourse.
00:03:26
Speaker
um that is intellectually stimulating, that is worthwhile. And it makes my stomach cringe when I can turn on the television and I can look at Revolt or i don't even know if Revolt is still on, but BET, just all kinds of channels and people who can't even talk have full platforms. And they're getting their thoughts and their perspectives out, whether it's on a podcast, drink champ, you know, what whatever the shows are, everybody's got a podcast now.
00:04:03
Speaker
And so I am grateful to you for continuing to have conversation and not saying that this is, oh, us educated people and people with degrees, we better than you. No, that's not it. But yeah.
00:04:19
Speaker
to have conversation and discourse around topics that matter, that's going to help people, that's going to get them from here to there, that is going to give them some tools that had they not listened to this podcast, they would not have. I commend you for that. And I thank you for creating these platforms where somebody's going to be watching this replay, you know, right now might be a week later, might be a year later, and they're going to get some oh perspective and some value and some insight on on topics that maybe them and their friends aren't talking about, right? Mm-hmm.
00:05:04
Speaker
So talk about talk about the energy. I mean, where where does it come from? Yes. Back to your question. So it comes from not only the fact that I sat in their seats, right? We we sat in their seats. You and I are both affiliated with the Divine Nine, part of the first fam. Shout out to the bruh. Shout out to the soror.
00:05:24
Speaker
um And we all had questions at one time. We all sat on the edge of our seats. and wanted to know how we can do things different and better. We were inspired by some people that we saw. So what keeps my energy up and what keeps me going and what keeps me talking um and imparting into our young folk, into the next generations, I can't just say generation, but into the next generations is I want to have my stick my chest out moments when I see our young people.
00:06:03
Speaker
I don't want to have cringe moments when I see them like, what in the world? I want to have my chest out moment like, yeah, that's right. Y'all better do it.
00:06:15
Speaker
So if we don't continue, if we don't uphold, if we don't challenge, if we don't remember Put the member, if we don't remember putting the members back together, remembering, recalling what got us through. We did more with less then.
00:06:42
Speaker
a And we're doing less with more now. oh We don't do all of those things collectively.
00:06:54
Speaker
Then how are they going to know? So I use these opportunities when I get in front of our beloved, right, to show them the way. Yeah. Why did why did why did grandmama put sugar in in her spaghetti? Why did grandmama put that little secret spice in her potato salad?
00:07:14
Speaker
Why did she put that ah little piece of garlic in that sock and put it in your bag? backpack or in your pillow when it was like, whatever the little secrets are, right?
00:07:27
Speaker
People were better for those home remedies. People were better for those little secrets, the sprinkle, the little seasoning in the, that those things get passed along.
00:07:38
Speaker
So you and i we pass those things along. So if they don't get passed along, they not going to get passed along. Right. oh So let's back up a little
Inspiration and Tradition in Joining Greek Life
00:07:51
Speaker
bit. or Let's back up a lot bit.
00:07:53
Speaker
Let's talk about because I forgot to ask you the most basic question. What made you want to be a woman of Alpha Kappa Alpha? Oh, that's a great question. um i literally it it wasn't something that was, you know, college based. um I remember as a child.
00:08:14
Speaker
um Seeing, being awakened. um Let me back up. Here's how the story goes. The blizzard of the century in Cleveland, Ohio, when I think I was seven and my sister was eight.
00:08:31
Speaker
My aunt, my mother's sister, and our aunt, their aunt, but she was young, so they were almost more like sisters, our Aunt Phyllis. So Aunt Phyllis and Aunt Brenda drove from Cincinnati to Cleveland in what we knew as the blizzard of 81 or something like that.
00:08:51
Speaker
And my aunt's husband's silver was Cadillac Fleetwood. Okay. And those two ladies, it was so exciting that they came to Cleveland and it wasn't the typical time that the family comes to Cleveland. You know, it's the summer, it's Easter.
00:09:10
Speaker
This was in like November or December or January. And we're like, are I bringing up Phyllis here?
00:09:19
Speaker
So they were there. The next day, i know my mom came and woke us up.
00:09:30
Speaker
It was so late at night. Because once again, I think I'm seven. My sister's eight. And they woke us up and they took pictures and my mom had a white dress on. And then the next day on that Sunday, the whole dining room table in our house had a beautiful white tablecloth on it with these very dainty and delicate, very pretty pink and green gifts.
00:09:59
Speaker
And I was just like, what is it? It's magic. You know, i I didn't know what was going on. I just knew my favorite aunts were in town during an off season, no family. It was just those two ladies. I knew my mom had a white dress on. And then I saw these little doilies and these little hankies and these little pens and these little delicate, you know, feminine, pretty pink and green gifts on our dining room table.
00:10:29
Speaker
And that was my first introduction to Alpha Kappa Alpha. The early initiative, an early initiative of Alpha Kappa Alpha was the Job Corps that really went down in history as one of the um premier programs that service programs that Alpha Kappa Alpha put out to give young people ah an employment pathway. Who otherwise would not have those opportunities? Disadvantaged youth, marginalized youth. Well,
00:11:04
Speaker
That was started in Cleveland, Ohio, the Alpha Omega chapter. The first graduate chapter of Alpha Kappa Alpha was in Cleveland. So I remember even going to church and the way that we would go to church, mama would always say, there's our building right there. There's our building. That's the job core. We have that building. And in the front glass of a building, kind of similar to what you would see at a department store,
00:11:29
Speaker
You would have job core and you'd have pictures of young black teenagers and you'd have different accoutrement artifacts and stuff in the door, in the window, in the case. But it was all pink and green.
00:11:41
Speaker
So I kind of connected that with what I remember seeing, you know, and then my mom would have us in the fashionetta. And she would be rehearsing and planning and having, you know, all of the work and service projects. And the Fashionetta was another youth program that Alpha Kappa Alpha would put on. So I remember going to that stuff. I remember hearing about it as kids. um And so, it you know, after that, there's, you know, what you going to do when you go to college?
00:12:10
Speaker
What you going to do? What you going to do? So every woman in my family, that is blood, Eddie. is is an AKA. I have an aunt who is a Delta, but that is my uncle's wife.
00:12:25
Speaker
To be clear. She is not blood.
00:12:32
Speaker
That's hilarious. We love her just the same, but she's she's my godmother, you know, but she is a Delta. And of course, you know, we have jokes for days, even still to this day. yeah That's really the reason why. And then you want to do, you want to do all the things that you see your big cousins do.
00:12:50
Speaker
So my big cousins who were, you know, closer to our age, when they pledged at Hampton and Kentucky State, where I ended up going to school and to another one went to Hampton and you see that that's all up and through your family you like all right that's it so my story Eddie is not oh my counselor in high school was an aka and I was so inspired nah oh I saw a case on tick tock and I like their jackets nah it was in the family so that was it
00:13:21
Speaker
that is really That is really cool. I didn't realize you had Hamptonians in your family. My wife is a Hamptonian. Well, we'll have to talk offline because I am sure she knows my two cousins. I'm sure she She most likely does. And my wife, was she was she was initiated into ravishing Ro Alpha of Zeta Phi Beta at Hampton. At Hampton, okay. all right she yeah She most likely knows exactly who they are. um Now, in indeed the the topics that you highlight when you talk to ah fraternity and sorority members, they contribute heavily um to making sure that they have healthy campus communities. And so when you take a look at the qualities that are needed for fraternity and sorority members to contribute to a healthy campus community, what are those to you?
Understanding Greek Life Expectations
00:14:14
Speaker
Knowledge. Know what the heck you're doing. Know what you signed up for. Have the knowledge of the organizations that you join. Have the knowledge of what the expectations are of you once you are a member.
00:14:32
Speaker
have the knowledge that it goes beyond just stepping and strolling. You know, I was so inspired two days ago on TikTok or Instagram, one one of the social medias, that I saw a brand new group. It might've been 30 or 40 Deltas and they had on red and black.
00:14:51
Speaker
And they said, we, the ladies of the so-and-so chapter of Delta Sigma Theta, commit to... 2,000 hours before of service before we step and stroll.
00:15:07
Speaker
And I was like, yeah, I just put so many hearts in there. com you know Having the knowledge that the stepping and strolling is fantastic.
00:15:18
Speaker
It is a part of who we are. Our performative culture is what sets us aside. And it is part of what makes Black Greekdom a phenomenon, right?
00:15:32
Speaker
But the service is the reason that these organizations work. at the core existed, okay? So if you don't have knowledge of that, then,
00:15:46
Speaker
you're probably not going to live out in that experience to the best and highest version of yourself. So I would say knowledge. I would also say balance. It's going to take that because depending on if you're are at an HBCU or PWI, your responsibilities might be different.
00:16:10
Speaker
You might have to be president of your chapter and of MPHC on the council on campus. you might have to ah You might have to figure out what your sustainability ah process is because out of a chapter of 10, you have four people who are graduating next year or four people who are graduating this year. So what are you going to do with a chapter of six people?
00:16:37
Speaker
Or... um and And you're not planning an intake or yeah interested in joining. So there are ah sets of unique challenges that our organizations face. So I would say the balance in addition to the knowledge. I would also say something else that would make a successful NPHC experience, too, would be to recruit without recruiting.
00:17:11
Speaker
Show up and invite those other African-American leaders on campus who are killing it in the science department, who are killing it on the football field, who are killing it ah at with the Young Alumni Association, who are killing it with the UNCF or the Thurgood Marshall Scholarship Fund, who are killing it in the research department or in their ag department.
00:17:35
Speaker
Find those superhumans, find those superstars, and then do what? Invite them to come and study with y'all on Tuesdays in the library. Invite them to come to your service organization when when it's open to the public and you all go read books to the little kids. Whatever the open public...
00:17:54
Speaker
or ah ah or events that you're doing on campus, the vision board parties, whatever the public things are, invite those people. You don't have to say, hey, I'm Azeda and we're going whoa. You just say, hey, listen, my name's Erica Jones. I am um a part of this organization. And on Tuesdays, we do this for my brothers who are watching and listening right now.
00:18:20
Speaker
Hey man, how you doing? My name is every Wednesday we wear quarter zips in a tie. We got quarter zip in a tie Wednesdays. You want to join us? Come on, join us. We do it every Wednesday at this time.
00:18:34
Speaker
Y'all come see us out. Check us out. This is for all the black men on campus. You know, whatever the thing is in terms of programming, my my ponytail is not letting me be great, Eddie. Sorry.
00:18:46
Speaker
Whatever that program, I'm trying to keep putting these bobby pins in it. Sorry, everybody watching. But that's how you subtly recruit without recruiting. And what you end up doing is you end up planting a seed to someone who would be an asset to your chapter, but you do it in a way by inviting them to some of your constructive programming on campus so that they can see at the heart of it who the organization really is.
00:19:17
Speaker
You know, it's funny you bring that up because Edson, our boy, Edson O'Neill and I, he and I did presentations about that at SGLA and NGLA. And we talked about how recruitment isn't a bad word. You have to, at some point you're going to have it anyway because you are going to have to invite somebody. But it was really interesting understand It was really interesting to see people kind of resist that in those sessions. And then one of the things that we brought up was listen, listen.
00:19:49
Speaker
If you have this thing where you want everybody to come to you and you have the shy kid who has a 4.0 and who does service and he doesn't want to come talk to you because he doesn't know what to say because he's intimidated.
00:20:06
Speaker
And then he graduates top of the class 4.0. You missed. you missed You missed him. You missed him because you were waiting for him to quote unquote, get his mind right and come to you. And I really, really wish that in the divine nine, a lot of us will get right with that notion that it is okay. The R word is not a bad word, you know? And, and, and one of the biggest things that I, I'm that I mentioned and Edson mentioned to him in these sessions was we're not telling you to obey anybody. Don't beg anybody to, to be in your stuff. No, but extend extend the invitation. um And so those are, those are some great thoughts. And, and, you know, to add to what you said also, Tish,
00:20:56
Speaker
I think one of the things that specifically in a divine nine that we can be so much better at and we don't realize we don't realize how good we we are at it already is we can be so good at modeling brotherhood and sisterhood for other people.
00:21:13
Speaker
We can be so good at it. You know, I mean, how many times at work have you so have you had this thought that, OK, OK, everybody, if we're going to make this decision, everybody has to be on the same page.
00:21:28
Speaker
right And for you and me, that's natural. Yes, that's natural. But for people who are not in a fraternity sorority, that is that for some people that is completely foreign. And it's just like, well, no, I don't have to be on the same page. I'm gonna go do my own thing. And and and for those of us in frats and sororities, we're going, you don't understand if one of us tries to stand up is not going to work. If we all stand up together, it is going to work. But we got to do it together. And I think that's that modeling.
00:21:55
Speaker
that we do really well, that we can do so much better for people if we were more intentional about how we modeled it for our community. I agree. I agree. And that's actually another if we could add that to the list of what they would need to do to be successful on campus, because those a lot of times, if applied right, Eddie, are transferable skills that you can use and apply into your career.
00:22:20
Speaker
Mm hmm. You're listening to Ethocast. I'm Eddie Francis, and I'm talking to the great Tish Norman. And Tish is a fantastic speaker. If you have not seen Tish, you got to look her up. You got to take a look at her videos and take a look at the work that she does. um So let me ask you this. Would both would both frustrate you and excites you about the guidance
Guidance for Students Beyond Parental Voices
00:22:43
Speaker
that we professionals try to provide to college fraternity and sorority members?
00:22:50
Speaker
Yeah. um What excites me is that oftentimes they're eager learners. Their minds are like sponges. They want to pick up what we put down. They're sitting on the edge of their seats and they want to hear the help. They say this all the time. Yeah. Active from people who've hashtag been there, done that. They want to hear. from a different voice other than their parents or other than their advisor. So I would say that that's definitely an energizer for me. That's what they want to hear. um
00:23:23
Speaker
What also i have found out, Eddie, is that oftentimes, look, good news never expires. um Doing good. you'll You'll hear me sometimes when I'm giving a presentation.
00:23:41
Speaker
Say ah somebody look at your neighbor right now and say, it's still good to be good
00:23:50
Speaker
While Cardi B is out there spreading booty cheeks on stages across the world. Somebody look at your neighbor and say, it's still good to be good. While there are people out there smoking live on the corner, right? Just smoke, just kids come to school with weed residue in their hair and their skin and their clothes. Somebody look at your neighbor and say, it's still good to be good.
00:24:17
Speaker
So when we talk about virtues that don't expire, right? when we talk about mindsets and behaviors and approaches that no matter that we're living in this digital age, when we come and talk about that and or introduce it or remind you of it, something might trigger that, oh, that's what my grandmama used to say. Oh, that's what my mom taught me a long time ago. Oh, you know, my favorite professor just told me that last month.
00:24:51
Speaker
It's confirmation for us.
00:24:55
Speaker
It's confirmation for them that whoever said it before we did was trying to show you the way. So that what I would say um doesn't frustrate me, that still inspires me. But what would frustrate me, for example, would be um if they, which sometimes young people do.
00:25:21
Speaker
I got it. I know it already. I don't need to be taught.
00:25:27
Speaker
You know that thing? Yeah. Yeah. um But I don't know if I come, if I get that response so much. I will give you this example and then I'll you.
00:25:38
Speaker
um I spoke at, and hell, I'll say it. I don't care. I spoke at North Carolina A&T couple years ago. And this is when Meg the Stallion was like really, really hot.
00:25:50
Speaker
Right. And i said something in front. So we had an all NPHC section. i don't know if anybody on here watching knows what the NPHC community is like at North Carolina A&T State University. It's massive. Like 400 or 500 students. Like it's massive. I mean, biggest HBCU in the country. years Exactly. So after we did a full session, we did a gender specific session. So there was a speaker that took the guys. I took the ladies.
00:26:22
Speaker
I said something, Eddie, about Meg the Stallion and how she's skank-a-dank-dank and how she's you don't see her face, you see her butt first. How does that represent, Sustas? It's terrible. but but Back in my day, it was Janet Jackson.
00:26:43
Speaker
When I tell you them girls came for me, i was like, I do not want no smoke. Those girls came for me. She's body positive. Why can't she express her sexuality and be proud of it just like Amanda? like they You heard a murmur. like You heard a you had to murmur over the whole crowd after I said something about Meg Thee Stallion.
00:27:08
Speaker
So in that particular case, what upset me was that they didn't see the big picture.
00:27:18
Speaker
They didn't see the big picture. I later, about 30 minutes after the speech was over and I was sitting down signing books, I pulled one of the sisters aside who was getting one of my books. And I said, hey, I got a question for you.
00:27:32
Speaker
I said, now that it's just you and I, I think it's great that y'all love Meg Thee Stallion. You know, that's maybe who y'all are looking up to now in this generation. Now, mind you, this was about three years ago.
00:27:45
Speaker
um I said, would you think that Meg Thee Stallion would get an honorary membership to your sorority?
00:27:59
Speaker
And the girl was like, I see what you mean. She was like, no, never. She was like, you would never get it. And I said, yeah, that's why I said what I said a few minutes ago. Now, maybe I need to say it a different way so that you all receive it.
00:28:19
Speaker
But that's all I was saying. That's all I was saying. So, all right. So somebody is asking this question right now, listening to you. Do you have a problem with pop culture?
00:28:32
Speaker
no Absolutely not. What I have a problem with is the lack of awareness that some black women out here have with how historically African-American people, women specifically, have been over-sexualized since...
00:28:55
Speaker
the Since the sense Jump, from Jump. And when you do not have awareness of the mammy, of the vixen, of the asexual, um big mama, mother type, the categories that Black women were put in, either on film, television, in the media, there When you don't have an awareness of that, and then anybody watching right now, lean into the camera, lean in, everybody lean in, lean into the camera. I want you to go on TikTok and I want you to look up some of Cardi B's clips from her concert.
00:29:36
Speaker
She's on tour now. I just want you to go pyrotechnics, light camera action, big screens like Beyonce, LED, amazing graphics, at technology.
00:29:48
Speaker
um Oh, my God. Fireworks.
00:29:52
Speaker
I want you to just look at some of the clips. Because Cardi B, though she's multi-ethnic, a so so ah identifies as a black woman. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:04
Speaker
And whatever clip, here's my challenge, whatever clip you see of Cardi B, i want you to watch it at the same time with your mama or your grandmama. Or I want you to watch it at the same time with your daughter, not your son, your daughter.
00:30:21
Speaker
And then give me a call. and Tell me how that went. I'm just curious. Because Eddie, if you and I stood up right now, shoulder to shoulder,
00:30:34
Speaker
And I gave you lyrics from the number one song in 1982. And then the number one song right now in 2026 hip hop song. And you read the lyrics.
00:30:50
Speaker
And then I read the lyrics. One of our lyrics, you wouldn't get three, four words in before expletive.
00:31:00
Speaker
I can't even say the word. Exclips. What's the word, everybody? Exclips. Exclips. That is the word, Eddie. Cuss words. That's what I'm trying to But to your point, though, I don't know if you know about this.
00:31:17
Speaker
You can't do it. 11 years ago, Zeta Phi Beta partnered with the American Advertising Federation, and they did a white paper about... Yes.
00:31:29
Speaker
how black women are represented in media send it to me i want to see it and that white paper was called reality tv entertaining but no laughing matter and what they did is they did these watch parties where people looked at all these reality tv shows and they got people's reactions to all of these archetypes of black women yeah and The thing that people need to understand that I think is part of what you're saying, and and I'm saying this as someone who has been in media for well over 30 years.
00:32:05
Speaker
Yeah. And that is... Media representation is extraordinarily powerful. it It is so powerful. Oh, and and so that is a lot that is interesting because it goes back to what you asked that young lady. It's like, OK, you can defend Meg Thee Stallion. That's great.
00:32:27
Speaker
But do you want her to be a member of your sorority? But she brought herself up by her own bootstraps. And her mama died. And she really kept going. And she graduated from Texas Southern. And she's an inspiration.
00:32:40
Speaker
and the and these are all great. It's great that she has done what she's been able to do. But to your question is, and and we know this as fraternity and sorority members, the way we represent ourselves counts.
00:32:55
Speaker
And it speaks volumes. And so... i i I mean, i can't tell you how many times. Just a simple act.
00:33:07
Speaker
I'm driving. There are bunch of nutty drivers around me. yeah I got this A5A slash Zeta Phi Beta frame on my car. Now, I want to flip somebody to the bird something awful.
00:33:20
Speaker
But I know if I do it, I know if I do it, if I road rage, is gonna be either that alpha or that Zeta who's driving that car.
00:33:32
Speaker
don't Them people don't know how to act. Don't trust the alphas, don't trust the Zetas. They can't blah blah, blah, blah, blah. And then it turns into, I'm so tired of these black folks who don't know how to act on the road.
00:33:43
Speaker
So it it all it all rolls downhill. And that's why I wanted to ask you, you know, do you ever and that's why I wanted to ask you, is it about pop culture or is it about us being more cognizant of our representation of ourselves?
00:33:56
Speaker
Yeah. and and And in my book, and in my book, you can represent yourself however you want. You just got deal with the consequences.
00:34:05
Speaker
Make your decisions. But do people understand that there are consequences?
Representation and Impact in Greek Life
00:34:10
Speaker
I'm not saying that everybody in the world, you know, a line that really stuck out to me in the movie Scarface was when he said, you need people like me because I'm a bad.
00:34:21
Speaker
You and when he got drunk in the club that night, he said, yeah you need you need you. It's people like you. You all need to be able to point fingers. at somebody like me and say, he's a bad man. Don't be like him. You all need me.
00:34:37
Speaker
You need bad boys. and And I think about that line sometimes because I know everybody in the world is not going to be sitting on a lily pad. You know, there are people going to make choices. People are going make mistakes. People are going go through stuff in their life. Right.
00:34:58
Speaker
And i was about about to say, but And I expect,
00:35:04
Speaker
for the most part, people who are in our organization, specifically in NPHC, I hold you to a higher standard.
00:35:15
Speaker
I hold you to a higher standard that if you all, if 20 students get invited to the mayor of whatever city that your college is in and you all get invited by the mayor to come to the Capitol building,
00:35:29
Speaker
and you wear the college colors, I'm expecting the MPHC student to say, let me put on my dress or let me make sure I put my suit on Let me put a tie on and let me put some shoes on or let me put my quarter zip and a tie on because I don't have a suit. So going to wear some nice, I'm going to be business casual. I'm expecting you to march to the beat of a different drum.
00:35:57
Speaker
because of the leadership legacy that you come from. So my thing, Eddie, that if I could say something that you we talked about what it exhilarates me or excites me, but what could bother me is the the lack of awareness of what I just identified.
00:36:13
Speaker
Do you not know that you're different? Do you not know that you are a leader? Do you not know that you're a wheel in a wheel on this campus? You all are supposed to be different.
00:36:26
Speaker
You were supposed to be looked at as role models on this campus. People are watching everything y'all do. People are watching how you all dress, how you talk to people, how you step and stroll. If you on the honor roll, if you graduate in summa cum laude, magna cum laude, or thank you laude.
00:36:49
Speaker
People are looking at all that. Oh, I graduated. Thank you, Lordy. Yeah.
00:36:57
Speaker
And look at you now. You're so crazy. and But I mean, the two things to that, Tish. First of all, that's what we signed up for.
00:37:09
Speaker
It was all sexy when we had the interest meeting. And when I'm sitting there going, oh, you mean to tell me I could be Martin Luther King's frat brother? Yeah, that was real sexy then.
00:37:21
Speaker
And then I became one. And I'm going, oh, OK, OK. So I just can't do whatever I feel like doing whenever I feel like doing it. Because now I'm representing a whole bunch of other dudes.
00:37:34
Speaker
You know, so let's let's end this on. Let's end this on a note where you get a chance to dream. So what is your dream for fraternity and sorority members, all fraternity and sorority members?
00:37:52
Speaker
What is your dream? two Alumni yeah or up yeah just like just like NPHC, NPC, even IFC, even but.
Future of Inclusive Greek Life
00:38:02
Speaker
for Greek life overall, what is your dream for them as the future leaders of this world?
00:38:10
Speaker
Oh, wow. That's an amazing question.
00:38:15
Speaker
My, so one of the challenges, one of the charges that I give um a corporate body, everybody, when i when I have a keynote for everybody,
00:38:32
Speaker
White girls, Panhellenic, I need you to be the best white girls you can be. Don't try to be us. Be you. Do your dances in front of your sorority house.
00:38:45
Speaker
Do your OOTD. Raise that $85,000 in your philanthropy. Wear your cute little sandals. Do the... in Do the Panhellenic thing that only you can do. IFC fellas, be white boys.
00:39:04
Speaker
Do what white boys do. Have a good time. Lead in your respective areas. Serve and be businesslike. Be leaders.
00:39:16
Speaker
NPHC, know that it's beyond stepping and strolling. Know that it's beyond doing it for social media. Know that it's beyond... Drama and intercultural dissing and tensions.
00:39:36
Speaker
Know that it's a macro vision of greatness, not a micro vision of greatness. Multicultural Greeks, get your own identity. Stop trying to be MPHC.
00:39:49
Speaker
Carve out your niche, continue to grow, continue to develop your culture of what you want your respective culture to look like of mg MGC. of NAWFO, of multi-ethnic groups, local, culturally based groups. Everybody can be great in their space.
00:40:11
Speaker
My dream would be for any racism to not exist anymore from the majority groups to the minority groups.
00:40:22
Speaker
My dream would be for everyone to stand on business where they are and be great where they are and understand that they all have their own respective legacies.
00:40:40
Speaker
Don't try to be another group, be great where you are, understand and recognize that every council has their attributes.
00:40:52
Speaker
And as Greekdom, communities as organizations in greekdom rather you can support one another you can encourage one another you can even collaborate with one another but you won't be able to do any of that until you got who you are locked in so that's what my dream would be i want to see another 115 years of mph c I want to see no more racist nothing ever coming from IFC.
00:41:28
Speaker
I want to see body shaming and mean girlness and accept and excess and and and body shaming and money shaming and privilege shaming from Panhellenic. I want to see that die.
00:41:43
Speaker
And I want to see in multicultural Greeks step up and say, we're forced to be reckoned with. Here we are, we not going nowhere and we not trying to be like you trying to step and stroll in a line and try to be stepping off beat. and No, do your thing.
00:42:02
Speaker
Don't try to do our thing. I want you to be fantastic by doing your thing. Develop your thing. That's what I want to see. That's my dream. My name is Tish Norman and I approve this message.
00:42:16
Speaker
Tish Norman, speaker, educator, and author. Thank you so much for joining me on Ethocast.
Connect with Tish Norman
00:42:23
Speaker
Oh my gosh. Absolutely. Listen, y'all want to holla at your girl? You can follow me on all social medias at Professor Tish, at Professor Tish, and at Professor Tish. All the socials. And then on LinkedIn, of course, it's just Tish Norman. Eddie, thank you so much. This has been fantastic.
00:42:43
Speaker
All right, you got it, sis. Ethocast is a four-hour edification limited series. If you like what you heard, like, follow, and share this podcast for more leadership insights for your fraternity or sorority chapter. To find out how your campus or a campus near you can book Followership to Leadership or the D9 Leadership Blueprint, contact me today, eddie at eddiefrancis.com. Until next time,
00:43:09
Speaker
Spread brotherly and sisterly love everywhere you go.