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Mastering Your Craft: Passion, Pride, and Pushing Through Challenges with Aney Bailor
75 Plays6 months ago
In this episode of The Better Contractor, host Brent Oberlink welcomes special guest Aney Bailor to explore the vital role of passion in shaping a successful and fulfilling career in the blue-collar industry. Drawing from their personal journeys, Brent and Aney discuss how a deep commitment to mastery and craftsmanship can elevate one’s work and contribute to a sense of pride in work and in their personal lives. They dive into the unique challenges faced by professionals in the industry, highlighting the importance of self-improvement and continuous learning. Tune in to gain insights into how passion can be a driving force, even on the toughest days, and how it is essential for long-term growth, fulfillment, and success. Don't miss this inspiring conversation that emphasizes the transformative power of passion.
#TheBetterContractorPodcast #MasterYourCraft #ContractorLife #BlueCollarPride #WorkWithPassion #TradesCommunity #ArboristLife #SkilledTrades #CareerGrowth #ChallengeAccepted #PrideInWork #Craftsmanship
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Transcript
Introduction
00:00:13
Speaker
fros Welcome back to another edition of The Better Contractor. Today, I am joined by the beautiful and talented Andy Baylor, who happens to be my wife as well. Hi. Hi. How was your day? It was good. Do you think cool?
Daily Activities & Tasks
00:00:27
Speaker
I built a couple of shelves and organized some lumber and then cleaned merges out of some fans. Sounds exciting. You have Mr. Judah help you out? Yes, he did. Judah is our ninja by the way. Yes. Literally a ninja. Ninja Judah. Yeah. Cool. We're working on. I'm doing crossword puzzles.
00:00:51
Speaker
Like what kind of crossword buzz? Why? Why on the podcast? Trying to stay mentally sharp so that I can keep up with you. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Passion in Work
00:01:00
Speaker
Let's talk today a little bit about passion. Passion and work. So if you guys think about it, you spend a big chunk of your life, whether you like it or not, at work. If you think about an average day, let's say you get up at 6.30, you go to bed at 10.30, you know, that's what is that? I wish I was in bed in there.
00:01:20
Speaker
16 hours. So if you work a nine, 10 hour day, you've effectively worked 10 of that 16. So a lot of time spent at work. So really would be nice if you had passion and desire to be there. So I think that's lacking for a lot of people. I think that you're looking at it wrong. I think that they spend their entire life doing a job as something they have to do instead of looking at it as an opportunity to actually become a master at something.
Cultural Craftsmanship
00:01:47
Speaker
Yeah, and I think if you look at like I've always kind of respected like the Japanese culture because they are very very big on like craftsmanship and they're huge on like learning their trade. They're big on apprenticeship where someone you know goes and studies underneath a master for years and years and years. And if you look at like a lot of their brands that come from there where there's eyeglasses like they make some really cool eyeglasses over there watches.
00:02:12
Speaker
vehicles, there's so many things that are so and even their woodwork is unique. I forget the name of you might know, but it's the one that's like, there's no nails, no screws. It's just joint work. um But they have a very much of a passion for the skill trades. To me, the passion part of it, though, that's what is going to make you actually successful. So I think in any career, if you do not have the passion, his heart is going to be very difficult to to be successful. Well, and over time, that passion, I think, turns you into the master of whatever it is.
00:02:40
Speaker
But that doesn't, that's not just for like, cause we're talking about businesses and contractors and employees, but that's not just for the person that started a business. That's for the employees as well. ah hundred percent They need to look at it, that they're putting time in to become a master at whatever it is that they're doing and take, and pride in and becoming that. How do you think that relates to the blue collar field?
00:03:06
Speaker
I think that last year, whenever we went to the expo, it stood out to me the most was the arborist.
Expo Passion Comparison
00:03:14
Speaker
Yeah. So last year, TBC went to, we went to the lawn and garden expo, equip expo in Louisville. Then we went to the TCIA expo, which last year was in St. Louis. And I will admit, like there was a lot more of a passion at the tree care industry expo than there was the lawn care expo. Like for all, like the doing of the work.
00:03:34
Speaker
the equipment that they use, talking about it, teaching it, like the clothes they wear. You're looking at them like, you got a pair of pants on or, oh, you're using a little metal hook thing. But they geek out about the nuts and bolts of every area of their industry and that passion is contagious. So that industry is doing really well as far as growing because there's this energy and this contagiousness They created and I don't know how it started. I don't know why this particular industry has been one that is That has developed this but it is one that I haven't seen in any of the other contracting and Yeah, so if we kind of dissect that like if you look at those guys who are talking about the expo They were huge on the gear like the climbing gear like they wanted the best gear as well um Their hard hats their hard hats are cool. Like they're just they look different
00:04:24
Speaker
they wanted the best of all those things as well. And would pay for themselves, not not depend on their company to buy it for them. They were forking out money on their own yeah to get equipment that was theirs because it was the best. So that's also an industry though, where you have to have some knowledge and some training. But I feel, so that doesn't really relate to passion though, I feel knowledge and training. Cause if you look at like, you know, we sit here in attorney capital of the USA, I feel like there's a lot of attorneys I see walking to work every day that look,
00:04:53
Speaker
miserable. Yeah, they've got a lot of training. So what do you think makes that
Engaging the Action-Oriented
00:04:58
Speaker
one different? I don't know. Because also this industry, I was talking to a contractor yesterday and I was like, well, do you listen to podcasts? And he's like, no, what would get you interested in listening to podcasts? He's like, I don't know. I feel like a lot of people in my line of work, like we don't do that because we just go out there and get shit done. Like, okay.
00:05:22
Speaker
So how are we going to reach those people? And they don't really care to listen to a bunch of people sit around a table and yap about all the stuff they should be doing when they're out there just doing it. That's valid. But he also acknowledged that there is there's a shortage in some of the industries. and
00:05:42
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I'm just trying to think of the cool factor. So like we've tried with some of our guys at work as well to try to find the cool factor in what we do. So like with us, you know it's a lot of heavy equipment. Uh, it's job sites that are remote, usually in a pretty area, not always, but a lot of times they are, um, in operating equipment that makes people drive by and say, what is that machine? Oh, hi. I didn't finish. yeah going I was thinking why I was rambling about what that guy said yesterday and got to answer your question, which the question was, why is this industry unique? And whenever he said that, it was like, okay, but this is a large group of people who a lot of times like to be out by themselves and not
00:06:22
Speaker
really happy. They don't like really to talk to people. They enjoy doing this job by themselves and and doing it. So why is it that they are so passionate whenever there isn't a lot of like people surrounding them. They're not doing it for anybody else. They're not like showing off. It's, it's, so that is what I think the thing is. They're actually doing it for self-satisfaction. They have become a master and an expert in this area and They want to be better. They want to, they got to be safe. So it's got to do something with that self gratification that they're providing themselves by learning and doing things something really well. Yeah, I think if you look at like heavy equipment industries like dirt work stuff like that. It seems like a lot of times that even I can relate to this is growing up on a farm. I always love everything farm related. So tractors, combines, all the big equipment. That's why I love when I was little. Well, I'm 42 now.
00:07:22
Speaker
I still think that stuff's cool. You know what I mean? I'm not farming, but if I did, I would still think it was cool. And it makes me wonder if like in some of the trade industries, like the equipment and stuff like that, if some of it is like the cool factor of the equipment. Yeah. So I think it's taking pride in your work. Um, you know, I remember like, like I said earlier, being on the farm, I remember like, there were some things like my dad would comment on like, Hey, you know, look how straight this guy planted his rows of corn or soybeans or whatever.
00:07:50
Speaker
You know, so that was like, oh, that's really cool. So then when I
Trade Industry Appeal
00:07:53
Speaker
was trying to do it, I was like, okay, I need to beat that guy. But it was definitely a pride thing. And I look at even like what we do at Lanicorp, like there's a cool factor to it. Like even not being one that runs the equipment or anything anymore, but I still go to a job site. I still think it's cool. Like what we do, like Noah the other day, I did a before and after drone aerial image of the jobs like we were at.
00:08:16
Speaker
That's really cool. like We're actually making pathways through these woods for you know our electrical, or not electrical, but energy infrastructure in the in the US. That's cool work. That's cool. That's what we do. so And it's it's straight, and it's clean, and it was done well. That has to be valued by the company hiring you, too. Yeah. um Where I think that some of the arborists, like they're out there doing it in the middle of the woods. Nobody really knows they're out there. Again, they know they're doing a good job. Yeah.
00:08:46
Speaker
but nobody else is really seeing it. Yeah. How can you use a passion to help fuel your career upwards? Well, I don't think that it specifically needs to be thought about just career wise. I think that it needs to be like long term at the end of your life, what have you accumulated? And a lot of people look at it that you work, you work your entire life and then you die. And they forget that.
00:09:15
Speaker
They've accumulated a lifetime of knowledge that has made them an expert in something. But if they keep that to themselves and they don't share it and they don't train anybody else and they don't talk about how amazing that that is, yeah, it was a wasted life. So you got a lot of people out here who are coming to work every day. They're getting up. They're, you know, moping in that they have to start their week and go work and drag in their feet and complaining and not in a a sense of urgency about what they're doing.
00:09:45
Speaker
They go, they do it, they come back, they're droopy, they're upset about whatever it is, but there's not this excitement that I get to go out and do what
Sharing Expertise
00:09:55
Speaker
I love another week. And what I'm getting to do is hone my skills, become a master, and be able to share that with somebody. a And they're not sharing their passion with anybody. yeah Because they don't actually see that what they have has value other than just the paycheck that they're getting.
00:10:15
Speaker
I think that they really need to really look at the way that they're doing things and they're getting to become a master and getting a paycheck on top of it. And so they should be telling people about that, teaching somebody else about it. All these people, when they're done at the end of the night or they're home on the weekends, they go out to eat, they go sit and, you know, shoot the shit somewhere with a bunch of guys, talk about what they do.
00:10:44
Speaker
i was We went to a football game this past weekend and I was struck by the amount of passion that so many of the people had on the sidelines. Like they was really after their kids to do this and do that and like really invested in the winning of this game, which how many high school students you know that went pro done
00:11:15
Speaker
So they're putting a lot of energy into sideline coaching these kids and it's not going to take them anywhere. Like, but they'll show up Monday morning with none of that energy. Like they put more energy into sideline coaching their kids. It's never be kind of going to become a pro. Then they put in all week at a job that is providing them a lifestyle, providing their family and income, you know, providing them in, you know,
00:11:45
Speaker
a sense of accomplishment and knowledge base that they have the rest of their life with zero passion Monday morning. Yeah. Why? That's a mindset thing. I feel what you think, but it's, it's overwhelming. Like you could go to any, any game and see the exact same thing Monday morning, follow all those people to work.
Can Passion be Developed?
00:12:06
Speaker
And it's going to be a two different people. Is that because they didn't pick a job that's their passion so maybe or or maybe it's because they don't really They don't understand that those two can live simultaneously. They really just view their job as a paycheck. What makes someone passionate? That's a good question. but Some people are more naturally passionate, I feel, than others, and more driven. um But I think our education system, I think, has done a bad job, in my opinion, of focusing people on a certain career path. Like, this is what you need to do to make money. And in reality, the skilled trades,
00:12:44
Speaker
especially nowadays, you can make just as much money or more graduating high school, doing a skilled trade and jumping into the workforce than some, a lot of people with a four year degree now. Um, but that's not something that's talked about in, you know, your senior year, junior year of high school. Nobody talks about that. So I think as a country, I think we've kind of moved away from, Hey, there's actually more than attorneys, doctors, and and and business owners.
00:13:09
Speaker
There's actually all these different things that you can do to make a lot of money and there's and there's a need like there's a need for skill trade um But it's not even that like remember we where was we on vacation? Was it? dragonenridge Or that candlemaker was in there like Happiest guy I've ever seen working Like he loved it. He was singing. He was dancing. He was making candles. He was happy.
00:13:34
Speaker
I'm not sure he wasn't on anything, but he was happy. Yeah. But I'm like, that was the happiest candlemaker I've ever seen. I like. Yeah. Well, and also in Breckenridge, we, you know, we happened upon that one metalsmith, you know, that made the bracelets. And then we recently went to arson crafts type fair. And like people recognize the craftsmanship of that person. Like he's known for that. And what did the one person say that he did? How does she meet him? Right. He was doing training. He was teaching the next generation. Right.
00:14:03
Speaker
But she called him, he is the master at hinges. And nobody else does them like he does. yeah well And that was, we got that in Colorado and the fair we went to was in Missouri. There's a lot of states in between for a person as you walk by to see something on your wrist and go, wait a minute, is that this guy's piece? Yeah. Again, that goes back to craftsmanship and passion in teaching, which I think Maybe that's an aspect that's missing too. When we talked about the Japanese culture earlier, they are also big on training and apprenticeships. So you learn underneath someone for several years before you move up. We don't do that as much here. Because people don't want to put time in. they They want to get a job and they want to think, well, I can become an operator as soon as I get this job. but And they don't want to put the time in to actually work up and earn that role. I think it's where the passion comes from. I think
00:14:59
Speaker
mean if If you, whatever you're good at, I think if you can find, I think if you're passionate, then you want to teach the next generation how to continue doing what you did and save them the time. So it's almost like a mentorship thing, really. A chicken and egg situation. like I approach everything that I do with passion.
00:15:19
Speaker
Yeah, like every single thing. It doesn't matter what it is. Like this is what I'm doing and I'm going to put 110% into doing this thing, the very best of my ability, better than anybody else. If somebody's better than me, then I want to learn how they did it. And then I'll apply that technique to what I'm doing and try it again.
00:15:36
Speaker
um But it's a, it's more of a mindset of I'm not having to do this. I get to do this. Yeah. Every day when you wake up, like I get to have another day that I do whatever it is that I'm doing. Instead of the drudgery of another day. Yeah. Do you think a person can become passionate about a field they weren't necessarily passionate about to begin with? Like they get a job out of school. Yeah. Doing this. I think they can. I think because it needs to be,
00:16:08
Speaker
Okay, if this is, okay, if you absolutely hate it, get out and move on. There's lots of people out here that have help wanted signs, like go do something else if you're really that miserable. But if this is what you're deciding to stay in, like you need to find out how this job and your role there can be fulfilling to you and how you can make a difference in the area that you're working in. And if you're not doing that, then you're You're a stumbling block for everybody around you because you're bringing the whole team down. Yeah. Well, the two, you know, if if you work at a company, with anything this is me just thinking out loud. If you work at a company with any size at all, if you think about it, like most likely there's a position that you would like at that company. You know what I mean? So let's say I'm working, I'll just use line of court, for example, because I know it. Let's say I got involved with I liked heavy equipment or whatever, or it's just a job to begin with. In the process of working there, i realize, you know what? I actually kind of like bidding.
00:17:05
Speaker
Like I like the complexity of the jobs going on site, taking the measurements, doing the drone work, doing all these different things. I enjoy that. Well, then you can basically learn how to do that, become the best at it. And you're probably going to get that position at some point. Maybe you like HR. I don't know anybody would, but maybe you like HR Sarah. I'm sorry. Um, it just has a lot of drama with it. Um, but you like it. There's people that like it. They're good at it. Um, learn it like that. Most companies have HR department.
00:17:30
Speaker
But you like, okay, what we do and the equipment that we use. I know that you've told people before like, created like you if you can create a department and get enough contracts in this area, then we'll just start a department. Yeah. Have you had anybody do it? Not really. Not like completely. No, but the option.
00:17:52
Speaker
If the opportunity's there, but then I know that you get people coming in and complaining to you about things, but you've given them the opportunity. Like, Hey, I will get behind you. If you find a niche, if you find an area that needs something, yeah bring me a proposal, bring me a plan. We'll do it. We'll get behind you. And you've had nobody do that. Closest thing would be, I won't name names. Closest thing would be some of the drone stuff and yeah GIS we're doing. Well, just name names. Rad has done a really good job of just like,
00:18:20
Speaker
Sure. I don't know what I'm doing, but I'll research it and I'll make it happen. You know what I mean? Well, even Noah, the better contractor, like he didn't know that much about geography, but he went and watched a ton of YouTube videos, harness the skills. And now he's one of the better videographers I know. So, yeah but yeah, it's taking, taking the time to teach, learn, you know, become the best at it. Noah wants to know what and we're passionate about. Well, he's passionate about me. Of course. I'm passionate about him.
00:18:50
Speaker
Yeah. apple So for me, like with business, you know, did I wake up one day and be like, man, I really want to clear right away. Like that's what I'm passionate about. No, that's not how it worked. I liked heavy equipment. Um, but more than anything, I liked the chess game of business. I just needed to be in a business that somewhat relatable to me that I liked and understood. Um, but it didn't have to be this one. Like I actually didn't know what right away clearing was when I opened Atlanta Corp. When we opened line of court, I didn't know. Did you know?
00:19:19
Speaker
immediately. Like it was kind of something we kind of learned first year too. yeah they had known a little bit more Yeah, because yeah um but it was the chess game of business is what I loved. And I liked the outdoor aspect. It was kind of like farming, but it wasn't farming, I guess for me. What about you? I like a challenge. Yeah. um I like it doesn't matter what it is actually. Yeah, I will. I don't care what it is. I i i genuinely am happy and excited to do an attack, whatever it is. And if somebody tells me I can't do it, that makes sense. I've never really had a job that I didn't like to answer your question though. Like there's some jobs I would prefer not to have done for a lot of my life. I worked at a greenhouse for a while in high school. I would not want to do that my entire life. But I worked for my brother doing a seed cleaning business. I enjoyed it. Like we it was a challenge. I was passionate about it.
Finding Fulfillment
00:20:10
Speaker
The farm loved it, obviously passionate about it. I worked in a diner, a pizza place.
00:20:17
Speaker
Catering top piano. Yeah, like it didn't matter what it was. I was Yeah, and I think to answer your question knowing we've talked about it before but um All of those though I was very driven to if my name was gonna be on it then it was gonna be done well um So if I was going to still be employed there, I needed to do a good job So but that's a different mindset too though. Also like every job that I left I I feel like I could go back right now and and get a job at any of the places that I left because I did such a good job and I left it in a good way and I didn't blow up a bridge. And I could go back and get a job there if I needed to. If you're a boss list, I'll ask you two questions. Number one, if you're a boss listing, like a business owner, you're in a leadership management position, how can they help to stir some more passion amongst their employees? Well, first of all, I think the the boss needs to do self analysis
00:21:16
Speaker
if they themselves are passionate. Because if their employees aren't seeing any passion from from their employer, it's they're not gonna be excited about it either. So I think that's it that's a good starting point. You have to catch fire somehow, but that means there has to be a spark somewhere. yeah um And I don't know, I think there needs to be conversations. I think talking to people about things is a big deal. Sometimes people do the work and they come to,
00:21:45
Speaker
work every day and they don't even realize that this is a passion project of somebody's. Your goal and your business has to be big enough for everybody else's to fit inside yeah and to find out what the employees are passionate about. yeah But I mean, we've even, I know that at the Christmas party, we've approached, you know, Hey, let's do this. Let's do this. Trying to get engagement and feedback and interaction, and then we won't get any.
00:22:13
Speaker
You know, and as employers, that is very frustrating to say, look, we actually like showing up for people. We we will show up. We will go all in. What do you want? What do you need? What are you interested in? And then just to hear crickets. It's it's frustrating. And then it's like, OK, well, they must not want or need anything. We'll go pour our time in elsewhere. Yeah. um And that's what we've done.
00:22:42
Speaker
pour our time in into a lot of things and I don't even know if our employees know all the places that we do pour our time
Leadership & Passion Culture
00:22:48
Speaker
into. Thanking the question I just asked you a little bit more on it. I think as a business owner too, you've got to pick the right foreman with the right leadership skills who want to teach others who are passionate themselves and who are the loudest voice in the room. So if you're picking leadership or foreman who they just know stuff, they're not necessarily passionate, not necessarily They're probably good what they do. They're not passionate. They're not telling the right story. That's going to prevent a whole other generation of ah coming up underneath them. I think as an owner, you also should be doing marketing to highlight the cool factor of what you do. You know, that's why we started all this at TBC. They're a contractor is because of the storytelling aspect of video. You know, it's not just for customers. It's also for employees. You know, people's growing like, hey, ah that looks really cool what they do at Lander Corp. I wouldn't mind to go work there.
00:23:41
Speaker
But then you're also keeping your employees engaged a little bit too with like, Hey, what we do actually is kind of it's a really cool video. Like that's what we do every day. and How do you cut through the noise? Cause like we're doing a podcast. So was everybody else right now. I mean, how many people with this podcast are going to actually see your gorgeous face and stop and start the podcast. I got to listen to what this man has to say. Like, how do you get them engaged and following you? Like,
00:24:10
Speaker
when there's so much out there and there's a lot of crap out there. There's a lot of people who are lying. There's a lot of people who are self-inflating. There's a lot of junk too. um And there's a lot of self-serving where they're not doing it for the right reasons. yeah At the end of the day, that's a lot to cut through. And then when you have all the algorithms that are are putting certain things into certain people's feeds, you may not necessarily get into the feed for somebody who's going to be interested in what you're having to say.
00:24:39
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that's true. I agree with you to an extent. I will say like in our industry, I don't have anyone else in the podcast. Most industries are not a ton of people doing podcasts. There's a ton of podcasts online. I mean, obviously there's a ton of them, but there's millions and millions of people in the world too.
00:24:56
Speaker
um But I think it is a platform for you to, depending on how many employees you have, depending on, ah you know, how spread out everything is, it is a good platform to get your voice out there. Right. So but be what I need is, cause I need the black and white proof of things. I have to actually see the numbers. And so if these guys are sitting here while they're driving to work or while they're running these machines and they're actually listening to us, but then they're just forgetting to like it or guys follow us, then I don't know that they're, at it's actually making a difference.
00:25:25
Speaker
So I don't know that they even know the value of you actually have to press that little button and like it and follow it. It matters because then it tells people like you want to hear more of it and do it. So yeah.
00:25:37
Speaker
I agree. Second question, just like the first one, but replace boss with employee. As an employee, if I do not have a spark of passion right now, maybe I did in the past, I don't have it anymore. Or maybe I took this job and I'm like, this is, this is okay if but I don't love it. But I want, there's a little bit in there that likes it. How can I really set that passion on fire? Is this a male employee?
00:26:05
Speaker
Traditionally in our industry, yes, 80%, 90%. Then you need to go get your testosterone level checked. Is this a plug for what we should be plugging? This is a plug for DV2, the generation clinic. Like you gotta to go and get your testosterone level checked. We should have DV2 in the podcast. Yeah, we should. They're amazing. DV2 is a hormone replacement clinic along with regenerative medicine. Yeah. So ah they're awesome. No, but that is, i'm I mean, um it was jokingly said, but it's true. Like there are actually,
00:26:33
Speaker
Some things that can affect, you people walking through life as a zombie is not normal.
Health Factors & Motivation
00:26:44
Speaker
So if you are having trouble getting up, if you're tired, if you're not motivated, there could be an underlying issue. And I do know that in this industry, number one, guys are like, nah, I don't need to go to the doctor until, you know, I blow up. And then if it's bad enough, then I'll go.
00:27:03
Speaker
but they're also on the road working all week long. They don't have time to, they come home. They want to spend time with their family. They don't want to make time to go to the doctor. Well, if you don't make time to go to the doctor, there could be something that is going on that you don't know. It's going to affect you being able to spend more time with your family later. Yeah. All right. So this dude, this hypothetical dude has went and got his T checked. He's doing a shot a week. He's feeling amazing. Now how can you get passionate about his job? Okay. All right. Well,
00:27:31
Speaker
Just T-levels or? T-levels. Screw the roof. All right. Well, then and it sounds like you need to change jobs. Oh, you can find passion. If you can't be passionate for your employer, then you need to be passionate for yourself and other people are watching you. So I was always more passionate for myself than the employer. That makes me a good team player or not. You're not. I am good with teams. I'm good with teams. Anyway, kind of with that too, though, I never was competitive in sports though.
00:28:01
Speaker
I didn't see the purpose behind being competitive in sports, but I was competitive at work. So for me, it was a, I needed to fulfill internally. I need to be better than you, whatever we were doing at work. So if we were stacking palaces, the minor needed to be shorter, straighter. I need to be able to do it faster than you. When I worked at the greenhouse, same thing we used to set in high school, we would set these plants and these rows in the ground and we hung other ones in the air. I wanted to be the fastest at it period.
00:28:27
Speaker
My, mine, we're going to be perfectly straight rows. There's this example after like, even on the farm, you know, I talked about earlier, even when we started Atlanta Corp, like now as the owner, like I want, I want to respond to emails faster. I want my emails to be written better. I want my bid proposals to look prettier, everything. All that is a competition for me. So regardless of what it is, I'm competitive internally with myself and whoever is in that same position.
00:28:53
Speaker
keeps you from getting lazy. And like, you look at some some businesses and they start. And then 1020 years, they look the same. Like if you don't continue challenging yourself to do better than I think it's one thing we do well Atlanta Corp, which to those of you listening there in the management or leadership positions, like a year in, like we really do count it back and say, what What can we give our customers that's better than what we're currently doing, number one? What is the industry not doing that it should be doing? And what can we do better? Like we do a really good job of like looking at those things, but that fuels that passion for me because again, it goes back to the competition, competitiveness. I want to be the first to the industry to do X, Y, and Z before everybody else had thought of it.
00:29:41
Speaker
Wouldn't you say that is a signal of passion? So if you have an employee that's kind of like, I don't know, but if they get that urge to like, get that tree down faster, do you think that that's a signal like, okay, maybe there's something here, I should pursue this?
00:29:59
Speaker
I think that goes back to earlier we we talked about like the foreman being a good leader is the foreman picking up on that what you just said. So if you put a foreman into a position that's not actually a good leader, he's not actually even passionate about it himself, I don't think you'll see that person and or if he does see him, he doesn't care enough because he's not passionate, he or she is not passionate enough to want to train them and mentor them to become the next great person.
00:30:25
Speaker
and We've even had that conversation with an employee at Landercorp one time as a leadership position. so Literally said, why would I train my replacement? And I said, you're not training your replacement. The idea is the company grows. You're training another identical u you. You're still here. Now you have someone in a new position. It's not to replace yourself. Hopefully we're growing. But I think as ah as a good leader or someone who's Hopefully passionate and is one of the better at whatever it is you're doing. I think you would want to see that person. And internally, I know like for me, it is very fulfilling to mentor. So I would want to say, Hey, I see that spark I had when I was 18, 19, 20 years old. Let's, let's feed this person. So no, make a good point. So your core values are usually things that you're are hard to teach.
00:31:15
Speaker
Like that's intrinsically who you are. Um, I think as a company, you can maybe foster certain ones or build them a little deeper, but they need to kind of be there already. And then the skills is something that you can train. Like as long as they have basic abilities and whatever it is, like we've had guys come in, they can just, they can literally operate any piece of equipment. But I need their core values to be in place. Then once I realize, Hey, you can literally operate anything and then we'll provide the training from there. I have a crew that.
00:31:44
Speaker
repeatedly was cutting corners, tearing equipment up. Then a large amount of the work didn't get done, which cost a lot for us to go back and do it. Like they were cutting corners all over the place. It was ridiculous. And they're no longer there. It caused problems like that left.
00:32:12
Speaker
the amount of money and time to go back and fix what their lazy poor work ethic selves did on the company that cost money. Yeah. Okay. Why wasn't this identified like, as it was being done? Why did we have to get so far down the line before like, Oh, wait a minute, they didn't do what they were supposed to be doing. Yeah. And why wasn't why didn't anybody else call them out on it? Like police each other.
00:32:42
Speaker
Like, hey, you know, this isn't the standard. These aren't the core values. What are you doing? Yeah. We've had it on and off through the years where we've had crews like that, you know, because a lot of our stuff's remote, meaning they may work three or four states away. So we have a lot of processes in place to try to prevent that. But at the end of the day, you still have to rely a little bit on that crew. Hey, these core values that we have are still what you're practicing. And you're going to have that. You're going to have... Not just internally, but that, hey, if my coworker is not pulling their weight,
00:33:11
Speaker
And then, you know, we go back to that, I forget, we call it like brother's keeper and safety, but similar aspect that we're accountability partners. though But we've also had some foremen that have just been blowing smoke up your tookus and they're, they're good talkers and yakkers at you to your face, especially if you're the boss. And then they get out there and they do whatever they want and they cut corners and they teach their crews to cut corners as long as boss isn't there. And that's detrimental to a company as well. Because at the end of the day, the company that hired us,
00:33:40
Speaker
they see the shoddy work. And then we don't get next year's contract because of it. I want to have the best crew. And if we've got people that are not stepping up, fix it. Like, come on, boys. Come on, boys. I mean, really. Yeah. I want to be proud of our guys. I want to be proud of the job that we do. I want to be able to say we have the best crews. We do the best work. I can't say that if you don't.
00:34:11
Speaker
period. So whenever you have a passion, do you ever feel that you can still have like an off day? Like if you absolutely love to bake blueberry muffins, is there ever a day where you're like, man, I just don't really care about blueberry muffins today? That's a good question. If I baked blueberry muffins every day, I would not shut that off. I would, or donuts, I would eat donuts every day. I think on those days,
00:34:38
Speaker
Those are the days when you need to double down and bake two batches. Because when you're having a bad day and you don't feel like doing it, that's when you you double down and you do it and then you do it again. Because that's what gives you your muscle memory. that's what That's what pushes you through. It's easy to do things when you like it, when everything's going well and you have the passion for it. and when Yeah, you don't feel like getting out of bed today and you don't feel like doing it. You get your hind end out of bed and then you put in the biggest, hardest day, and you do double that day. And you tell yourself, stop being whiny. Like, this is what we're doing today. And since you was throwing a fit this morning when we got out of bed, we're gonna do it two times. I do think to go along with that question, JD. So I like to watch them observe people and I read the books, listen to but their podcast, blah, blah, blah. And I think a lot of winners, I've noticed almost let days like that fuel them.
00:35:37
Speaker
It seems like it's the day they don't want to get out of bed. It's the day they don't want to do whatever it is they're dealing with at work. And then they realize I'm having a weak moment and in that moment, then that's not who I am. So it's almost like ah it fuels them to come out of that and actually excel at that day. And like you said, double down in like the entrepreneurial self-improvement world. People will talk about like you being the sum of your five closest friends. I think that can relate to this as well.
00:36:07
Speaker
If you are someone who wants to move up a ladder, find the passion, be passionate, be the best, learn your trade, whatever it is, you can't put yourself around the five negative people that work all that long. Right. You know, so I think you need to find, yeah if there's a company of 80 people, let's say, surely there's five other employees well and that are really passionate about what they're doing that you can become friends with and then hopefully learn from and inspire all of you all five, six of you to be the best. Some companies, I think, too,
00:36:37
Speaker
Like they reward off of like at the end of the year, who's the bet, looks the best. So if an employee is like, well, if I am around four other really crappy employees, then I'm going to look the best. Then I'm going to get a better raise, which you don't realize that you just aren't going to improve. You need to put yourself with a group of people who are better than you and then work all year long to be better than the best person. yeah Um,
00:37:05
Speaker
But um Anthony had a couple of questions. So we have two questions. Yes. Anthony wanted to know, what do we wish we knew when we started? you go And mistakes that we made that we learned a lot from. Okay. So first question, things we wish we knew or would have done different, I guess. Um, for me, that would have probably have been,
00:37:30
Speaker
having robust systems that could track data that was replicatable in the very, very beginning. Cause we spent a ton of time, not right now, but yeah a few years back, we spent a lot of time correcting, not having that. So then trying to do all of that in the midst of a company that already had whatever the time, 20 employees at the time, 30 employees at the time.
00:37:54
Speaker
Uh, was much more difficult than had we started off on that track. We would have had the data. We would have had all that stuff. Everybody had been used to it. It would have scaled faster. Yeah. I wish that we had operated under more of your, I think it's coming from age and confidence of having done it longer, but you you really have this more sense of authority when talking with people who are pushing back but contracts of just being, I'm going to be blunt with you and blah, blah, blah.
00:38:28
Speaker
and where it's really, when we started, it was more like, we really need this contract. so yeah we we didn't have anything So what do you need me to do for you? Where now it's like, let me tell you this, because you don't actually know what's up and I'm just getting ready to tell you. yeah And you do a really good job of of doing that. um but thank you That's an area I feel like. I think we're both good at that. We're both pretty good at being genuinely honest. But i bet you really are coming into it with this sense of
00:39:00
Speaker
authority that people want to listen to. But that, and I think that we hire slower, fire faster. definitely Right now in the job market that's out here, that that's really...
Hiring for Culture
00:39:17
Speaker
It's tougher now than ever. It is. And so I think there's going to be a lot of companies that are doing bad hires because they desperately need somebody. And that bad hire, ah yeah that could cause a lot of problems later.
00:39:29
Speaker
Yeah, we're not perfect at that either, but we've definitely learned. Yeah. Definitely the beginning. I think. Yeah, that was very true. That's how you can ruin your culture completely. It's like, let's say you have one bad hire per department. Every department's got five people. Let's say before that hire, you had four pretty good people. You make the bad hire. Now all of a sudden you got five negative people at department. Now you really didn't let all five go to get rid of that cancer that you've got. I think that's the issue that you went into or.
00:39:58
Speaker
And there's some toxic personalities out there. And those toxic personalities overtake a company much faster than culture does. Culture is slow to grow. Like you have to really put the time in to grow a culture and and to have your, you know, code that you live by. You get one bad person in there and that takes off like wildfire. hey Yeah, I can think of the fire faster. I think that's from the leadership perspective of you knowing This person is no longer coachable and I need to cut it now before it makes it a whole lot worse. You know, there's you obviously need to check with the attorney to make sure you can just fire them like that. But um I think that's one thing we've probably done when when we are where we've been 100% in charge of. Right. um we' done Well, at the moment that you smell bullshit, you need to fire. Because there's some people that man, they can just they are good at spinning. Yeah. And they can tell you how amazing they are.
00:40:59
Speaker
job that they're doing and it's all a load of bull. Yeah. Those people need to go immediately because that never ends well. Some of it is it's like you got this person standing there telling you how amazing they're doing the job and they're handling stuff and if you're overwhelmed and you're covered up and you're like, oh, okay, good. I'm not going to listen to that little nudge in the back of my head that's telling me this is crap. I'm just gonna let this person handle it and what they're really doing is just blowing everything. Well, I think to help kind of prevent that a little bit if If you're like a contractor, listening is you've major hire the person's out in the field. I would try to have, if you're a big enough company where you can have someone or the owner can go do it, but have someone that pops in on these crews once in a while and just make sure that, Hey, this dude we hired last Tuesday, is he doing what he said he was going to do? Like, is he actually good at it? Cause I can even think in on our 17 year history of a couple of times where someone's like, yeah, I'm awesome at.
00:41:55
Speaker
operating at XYZ. And then you see him in the field or the foreman or another employee gives you feedback like, I thought you said that guy knew what he was doing. And then you find out that he was just wanting a job. So you gotta, you gotta investigate, make sure.
00:42:11
Speaker
Trust, but verify. A hundred percent. And if you're an employee that you're getting checked up on, like, don't get upset about it because that's a so a sure sign that you're doing something when they're not there. If you get mad that somebody's coming and checking up on you, all that signals to anybody is that it's righteous indignation that, oh my goodness, they're checking up on me. That just says that there's something going on there. Yeah. Be happy that they care enough to come out and check up on you guys. Yeah, for sure.
00:42:41
Speaker
Question two. Mistakes we made that we learned a lot from. um Okay. Good question. Um, probably promoting and hi or either promoting or hiring the wrong person for the wrong position. Um, I can think of a few times in the very, in the past where that's been a little bit of an issue is either promoting someone because they just have some bad experience, which is kind of what we just talked about. Um, that didn't necessarily have the leadership skills or Didn't have the passion or leadership skills to be able to lead a team of people successfully. Hiring friends and family. Yeah. I mean, that's not always a bad thing, but... 99% of the time. I don't actually agree with that one. There's right family and right friends and there's wrong family and wrong friends. But you know who that is. Yeah. Our mistake was we hired another wrong category, not the right category.
00:43:36
Speaker
um I do think hiring friends can be good as long as, because if you think about it, you think about hiring on core values, think about that way. Most likely your friends are similar core values or you wouldn't be friends to begin with. So as long as they have a good work ethic and they have the core values, I think it can actually be a win. And I look at some of my favorite employees we've had over the years. It was the ones we hired where we hired someone we knew, then they hired their friends. That was some of our best crews we ever had.
00:44:04
Speaker
It just has to be a Chinese wall between this is friendship and this is work. And if you mess up and you get fired, it can't affect the friendship. 100%. You got to have a boss hat and a family friend's hat. Yeah. But I think it can be good. We just got to do it right. And everybody needs to understand what you just said, like putting boss hat on now. Hey, we're back to friends. So I asked Anthony what he thought from an employee perspective, what was something that employers struggled with, with employees. And he said, a lack of urgency with the employees, people waiting to be told what to do. um
00:44:46
Speaker
And that it's most appreciated in most fields whenever people have that, you know, get up and go on their own without just being around to be told exactly what you've done. Yeah. her And I think that comes down to as a leader, knowing, is this person lazy? Or is this because we've had some people who are that way, you got to go tell them, but they've actually, once you tell them, they will go do it all day long.
00:45:15
Speaker
But so yeah as a leader, you need to discern, Hey, this is lazy. And if given the opportunity to not do anything, they will always pick that or two, they just need to be given direction. And as long as I'm giving direction, they will always be busy. So I think you got to kind of weigh out which way it is for the employee. I used to kind of joke around that kind of, if you could do it like in a small town, like if I lived and all my employees lived here, I would sit in a grocery store parking lot.
00:45:41
Speaker
watch who took the see who took the cart back and that's who it would hire. Gotta wrap this podcast up. I feel like we've, we talked about passion and I was trying to question myself if I think that you can create that.
00:45:53
Speaker
and I'm mixed on the answer. I think it needs to be an intrinsic thing of who you are, or it won't last long. So that goes back to them. And I think the arborism, because that is by and large, like the truth climbers, like, they already loved it before. but though Like he's a lone wolf. He doesn't know and he's passionate about it. But he's really wanting to do that for himself. if They have somebody else paying him. He's doing that for himself. Yeah, I think some of those things, it has to be they have to be intrinsic things of who you are individually.
00:46:22
Speaker
I don't think another person can create that within you, that that last. So I think if you're a business owner, higher based upon those core values, number one, higher based upon, hey, that dude took the cart back, higher based upon those things that most likely there was somebody other day talking on a podcast or something. I don't believe this is a hundred percent true. Everything can be generalized. They were talking about like they, they judge. So this industry was primarily male.
00:46:50
Speaker
And he's like, I judge other guys by their fitness. I judge them by how they carry themselves, all these different things. And he said, the reason I do, because if they are fit, it shows me they have discipline. They're they're probably eating right. They're probably working out. They've probably been doing it for years. I mean, I do that too. Discipline's a trait I want. Like I judge.
00:47:13
Speaker
guys by, did they hold that door open for that lady? yeah Like if we're in a restaurant. We're in a restaurant and all the guys are sitting down and then a lady comes up to the table, sit down, do they all stand up? Because she approached and then sit back down. Like that's just, that's manners. And that's, that's important. yeah But it shows character too. Now maybe those people are shitheads, I don't know. But there's a starting point at least. Yeah. It's ah it's a first judgment.
00:47:40
Speaker
yeah um So, you know, so that person was hiring based upon characteristics like that. it Will that always work? No, but it is telling you certain traits that that person has. And I think, you know, if you could study the people who apply with you, I think that'd be a neat way to do it. Well, and for to bring it back into passion, here's the thing. As an employee, as an employer, like you have to have it. it And if you aren't, as this is just a money game for you or whatever, like you have to be passionate and you have, they have to know your passion.
00:48:11
Speaker
or the employees, you are either a passionate employee that that company wants to keep and make sure that you're taken care of and every raise that they can give that you get, or you're a placeholder. And you're holding that place until that company finds somebody that's passionate and you're replaced with that person. Yeah, I will say that's 100% true. you Like the employee I mentioned earlier that am i am I turning my replacement? Well, if he loses his passion,
00:48:38
Speaker
Yeah, he's probably training his replacement at some point. You know, a replacement that comes along is like, I actually like this stuff. I'm ready to kick this dude's butt. And so some people will hear that and they'll get all upset. Oh, well, I'm just a placeholder. Well, that's on you. Yeah. Like if you're not passionate and you're not bringing it every day, then don't get them out of the company for saying, look, I want somebody that's passionate. That's on you. Yeah.
00:49:00
Speaker
Um, I think there is a little bit of an over-reliance anymore on people thinking that those type of traits need to be given to me by an employer or by someone else or whatever, instead of thinking like, man, why, how can I harness those traits? How can I be more of that person? But I think it it holds them back that way. You know, so like that, um, something like the cart, you know, I've always done that from a little tiny kid. I've always put the cart back.
00:49:26
Speaker
and every other cart. Usually, yeah, I'll grab i'll have others on the way, you know. um But I don't think you can create that. I think you can lead and bring it out of them. um But like, there's some people you watch in life with the cart thing. Not to have focus on that too much. They don't care where they leave them. They leave it behind somebody else's car. Like that's so blatant there. And I have noticed when I've done it, like,
00:49:52
Speaker
I went out before taking a cart, grabbed another car and then noticed someone else who I don't think is going to put the cart back. Like, Oh shoot. He just did two carts. So, okay. Now I'm going to do it. So I think there's an element where yeah, you can lead from the front and bring some people up, but there's gotta be a little element of like desire to do better
Leading by Example
00:50:10
Speaker
than myself. I so but think it's the employer's job to create the culture. I think you should try to hire on that as much as possible. And I even go back to the gym. Like you go back to the gym.
00:50:19
Speaker
Like the other day I was up there, somebody had like wiped off a piece of equipment and just left the rag on the floor. So I walked by, I figured the rag, I throw it away. You know, somebody else left, like it took them one handle off, set in the ground, put another one on, left the one on the ground. I walked over, put up a guy actually came over to me later and said, Hey, thanks for, thanks for doing that. You know, but then does that cause a little bit of momentum in the gym? I don't know. Does that make the next person?
00:50:43
Speaker
clean up the piece of paper, not throw it in the ground, you know, wipe his seat off, whatever. Um, so I think i think a lot of it can be led from the front, people observing like this guy's different. I like that behavior. I think that too, that, that, that lends itself to the idea of proximity to greatness. Come back to the five people. Everybody know everybody that witnessed you do that. They were in the proximity of greatness. They will then adjust what they do based on what they saw you do.
00:51:12
Speaker
how Will it affect the next bozo that comes in and does that? No, not if they don't see you do it again. So then that's two things. Pay attention to the people around you that are great and how they do things and emanate that. yeah But then it's not a one-time thing for you. It has to be every time because just because you did it once and that group of people saw you, the next group of people needs to see you do it and the next group of people. So employees, yeah, okay, great. You did a really good job one week last year.
00:51:41
Speaker
yeah you have to do that week after week after week, new crew after new crew, time after time, because new people are watching. I don't think it's black and white. I don't think it is because like, I think you can train some. I think it will save you as an employer if you can find people already that way a little bit. But do I think you're as a lost cause to never think you can train passion or create passion? I think you can if you're a good leader. So there's plenty of opportunity of thinking about one person making huge change for good or bad from people who were, were not passionate about it before. So I went into any of the jobs that I had though, thinking I was not owed anything. Like I got the job. Now it's mine to lose. The raises are mine to lose. The respect is mine to lose. The promotions are mine to lose. And whenever I leave,
00:52:40
Speaker
I either have somebody who's going to give me a good reference or not, but I'm not owed anything by that employer. I'm there to do a job and do a good job to the best of my ability. Yeah. Well, and I think even with that, like I think it raises will come with from that though. So I think it, especially in today's labor market, I think if you walk in,
00:53:02
Speaker
you were driven and you were hungry and you're passionate. You're doing all these things where I i don't see. There's not very many employers. I was never a bare minimum person. It was always, okay, you hired me for this. Well, I'm seeing that this person's not doing theirs and this person's not doing theirs and I'm going to do all of it and then you can fire those two. Yeah. And I'll take a raise and I'll do the work of three people and I'll take a raise and you'll need one person because I can do that.
00:53:29
Speaker
instead of like, okay, well, how much can I cut off my plate and still maintain the same income and cut corners? I'll pick up everybody's. Yeah. Well, hey, let's wrap this up because it is about an hour. And if you're like me, I don't like listening to your podcast for more than an hour. So we can't be that podcast that drones on and on. If you guys like the show, please share the show. If you didn't like it, turn it off. Thank you for the new subscribes. Appreciate it. Love you guys. See you next time.
00:53:59
Speaker
i