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Emotional Intelligence: The Leadership Skill You Can't Afford to Ignore
89 Plays15 days ago
In this episode of The Better Contractor, Brent Oberlink and his co-host, Aney Bailor, discuss the importance of emotional intelligence in leadership. While IQ and technical skills are essential, it's emotional intelligence that can truly set you apart as a successful leader. From understanding the role of empathy and self-awareness to managing reactions in stressful situations, they talk about how emotional intelligence influences team dynamics and company growth. Whether you're leading a small team or scaling a business, emotional intelligence plays a pivotal role in fostering trust, clarity, and resilience.
#TheBetterContractor #Podcast #EQ #IQ #LeadWithEmpathy #BusinessLeadership #EmotionalAwareness #LeadershipDevelopment #BusinessSuccess #LeadershipTips #GrowYourBusiness #Entrepreneur #Contractor
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Transcript
Introduction to 'The Better Contractor' Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to another edition of the Better Contractor. Today I am joined by my wife and co-host, Annie. How are you? I'm good. How are you?
00:00:14
Speaker
welcome back to another edition of the better contractor today i am joined by my wife and co-host annie how are you i'm good how are you Good.
Why is Emotional Intelligence Crucial for Leaders?
00:00:22
Speaker
And we're going to talk about something we both enjoy a lot, which is emotional intelligence. So guys and gals, if you are a leader and you are wanting to grow your company, scale your company, it is not just IQ that has to do with growing your company. a lot of people will think, oh, if I'm smart, if I can earn my books, if I can do this, then I should be successful. And I would say that may not even be 50% of it because guess what you're going to have as a leader or a company owner, a team.
00:00:51
Speaker
And I am not the one to pick the topic today. Yeah. So if you have a team, that means people work for you. If people work for you and you want to retain them as employees and you want them to lead and follow you into battle, there has to be an element of emotional intelligence.
Key Aspects of Emotional Intelligence in Leadership
00:01:07
Speaker
So that's what we're going talk about today.
00:01:09
Speaker
So I found one study that i found kind of interesting and just put one sentence down for it. Approximately 90% of top leaders possessed a higher than normal emotional intelligence. So I think that confirms that there is some importance here.
00:01:24
Speaker
This is something that if you were serious about self-growth and improvement, this is something to take a look at. What are your thoughts so far on EQ or EI? We'll call it EI. I think that may not be evident to people when someone has ah high emotional intelligence, but it is definitely evident when people don't.
00:01:46
Speaker
I would agree with that. And I think sometimes people view emotion when the word emotion is used, they automatically start thinking about, well, literal emotions. So crying, sadness, and all of that. And that's actually not what we're talking about here.
00:01:58
Speaker
More of what we're talking about here is going to be empathy, which is being able to relate to others. and actually yourself as the leader being calm, being sound logic, judgment, not flying off the handle.
00:02:11
Speaker
So your extreme should not be quite so evident as a leader, in my opinion. You know, I can think of people who, Let's say you are a leader, you're working for a leader and you walk into battle and the leader is like absolutely just losing it.
00:02:26
Speaker
They're stressed out. It's visible. ah They don't have a clear plan. Their emotions are all over the place. And what does what what does that do to the team? It makes the team a little bit scared.
00:02:37
Speaker
Number one, that the leader doesn't have a plan of action because it appears chaotic. um and You're not creating any calmness. So you're not moving that ball down the court towards a solution. You're really just creating chaos inside your organization. So that's more what I'm talking about there.
How Do Leaders Influence Team Dynamics?
00:02:51
Speaker
I remember when um my niece was little and it was after um she ah went with her mom and started um being in daycare and she came back to see me and she Something happened and she just, I'm freaking out. I'm freaking out. I'm freaking out and she just kept saying, i'm freaking out. She must've picked it up in at daycare.
00:03:16
Speaker
And i remember just, it hit me so much then just having this little person that was running around going, i'm freaking out. i'm freaking out. And thinking, wow, they learn at such a young age, the chaos of emotions whenever they're around others who are expressing those.
00:03:34
Speaker
so Was she actually freaking out or was this, this was just something that she had heard in daycare, picked it up very quickly. And now I'd adopted it into her way of dealing with a situation and and our teams that we work with will do the same thing.
00:03:52
Speaker
So if you have a leader that is not emotionally stable and just goes around, I'm freaking out, I'm freaking out, I don't know what to do. And they're letting their emotions run amok. their team is going to adopt that very quickly. And they're all going to start going to their particular job within the company when they get hit with something and start imitating that same behavior.
00:04:14
Speaker
And instead of just having a calm resolve of let's get an action plan, how are we going to attack this problem? They're going to just run around. I'm freaking out. I'm freaking out. Yeah. And I think that's a good example of, you know, if you think when when a situation happens, a stressor, whatever it is happens,
00:04:30
Speaker
most people or some people's immediate thought is to react with an emotion, but emotional intelligence is saying, take a second, evaluate this, remove the emotion from it for a brief period and actually analyze it logically, create a path and move forward.
00:04:47
Speaker
But then instead of reacting emotionally, it's more of reacting hypothetically. Do agree with that? Right. Well, yes and
The Role of Emotional Control in Leadership
00:04:55
Speaker
no. I think that it depends on the situation. Like sometimes something happens so suddenly and it needs dealt with immediately, that you do not have time to have any emotion at all.
00:05:06
Speaker
Like it just has to be action that's taken. um And we had a situation like that couple years ago. And you and i weren't able to to go down the path of feeling what we felt in the moment because action needed to be taken right then. And and we didn't have the opportunity to even express that or let people see that we was feeling anything, which sometimes then as a leader, it makes you look like you're an asshole because you're not showing any of these emotions that people show in these situations, but you can't because there's things that have to happen and you have to handle things so that the rest of the company doesn't fall apart.
00:05:43
Speaker
Um, but then I think that there are times when you do need to take a moment and you need to lean into the emotion, actually take a beat, feel what you're feeling, identify the source of it, but then take a step back and say, now what am i going to do about it? What's actually causing these feelings? Because every feeling is being caused by something that an action can be taken to change to change that.
00:06:08
Speaker
There's always something that
Self-Awareness and Self-Regulation for Leaders
00:06:09
Speaker
can be done. you're never You are never incapable of changing in that moment the way that you're feeling about something. If you are a living, breathing human being, you can take action and move yourself in a different direction toward or away from something if change needs to happen.
00:06:24
Speaker
Yeah. How much do you think self-awareness and self-regulation plays into it? Oh my goodness. Emotional intelligence. ah Usually. Um, you have to, you have to have full command of your emotions, how you react to situation. Like you need to know yourself.
00:06:42
Speaker
I think that people who go through life, not intentionally living life, um may be the people who flap about without a focus when things go sideways.
00:06:56
Speaker
um you You have to go into every situation knowing your strengths and weaknesses and how you're going to react to a situation. And you need to know that when a stressful situation happens that your normal go-to, that's what you're going to revert to.
00:07:13
Speaker
two And think the self-regulation, so if you're someone who knowingly flies off the handle quickly, but you're in a position of leadership, I think you have to know, hey, in this moment, this does not serve me, and it does not serve the company, it does not serve our objectives to fly off the handle. So you have to self-regulate.
00:07:30
Speaker
but also be self aware that, Hey, I tend to do this, but then also be able to tell yourself not doing that right now. Right. Today we're taking a pause on that. Give yourself a three second, five second breather. Put yourself in timeout. Yeah. Put yourself in timeout for a second, but then lead the conversation, move forward with logic and more sound reasoning than judgment.
00:07:49
Speaker
um And that's not to say, you know, it seems like we toss the word in emotion around in society as a whole. And when we do so, we think the surface level emotions. So sadness, crying, happiness, smiling, those types of things.
00:08:03
Speaker
And I would challenge you to think past those and actually think more depth. So what I'm saying here with emotional intelligence and taking a pause and doing that is if a situation, let's say it's let's say a more of an anger, a bad situation, instead of aite immediately leading with anger,
00:08:22
Speaker
Take a pause in that initial emotion, develop a plan, but then later use the anger subconsciously to fuel your reaction to take larger action.
00:08:33
Speaker
Right. But also I think identifying that sometimes anger doesn't, doesn't even play a role like that is actual emotion, but that doesn't have anything to do with emotional intelligence.
00:08:48
Speaker
um So I could be angry when I hear that somebody said something, my initial feeling is anger.
00:09:00
Speaker
But that's not emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence is taking ah ah second and saying, okay, was there any truth to what they said? um Have I acted in a way that even if it's not true, would make them believe that? Like doing an analysis of yourself,
00:09:16
Speaker
um where they got the information, why they would so easily believe it. Like all of those things is actually, and then putting yourself in their shoes and, and saying, okay, is why did they, why did they believe it? Why did they repeat it? Like,
00:09:31
Speaker
putting yourself in their shoes and then going and addressing it with them. That's actual emotional intelligence. I think so too. And I think it goes to depth. So I think a lot of people on on a happier front, let's say they have a boss that's more charismatic, outgoing, makes you feel good, but maybe there's a lack of depth later once you get to know them little bit further,
Building Trust Through Consistent Emotional Depth
00:09:54
Speaker
or maybe you're a boss who in those stressful situations, good or bad, whatever sadness, whatever it is,
00:10:00
Speaker
You may seem, don't want to aloof, but you are taking time. You get accused of that all the time. I do get accused that one. But you're taking the time to actually think it through, develop a strategy to get through it.
00:10:11
Speaker
You actually are thinking about how can I lead this team in the most effective way. You're actually putting way more thought into it because you're taking that pause. It's not actually a pause. You're taking a pause in the emotion before you show it.
00:10:22
Speaker
You're actually going through and actually getting a strategy to actually be more effective. Sometimes those leaders in the beginning are viewed as a loof, as an ass or whatever it is, but then the employees with time will respect that leader more because they know there's more depth because they know, Hey, consistency, there's consistency, there's depth. I know he's going to show up or she's going to show up. I know they're going to get us through this.
00:10:45
Speaker
And I know their emotions are actually legit because at a family function or an event, they know my kids, they know my wife, the stuff that actually matters to me, not the feelings, the stuff actually matters in my life, they actually care about that.
Case Study: Satya Nadella's Empathetic Leadership at Microsoft
00:11:00
Speaker
So because there's that depth, they can then be more thoughtful and less emotion showing in those situations. Do you agree? do. Yeah. yeah So, um,
00:11:12
Speaker
When I was researching for our show notes, one that came up, and I'm not super familiar with this one, but I thought it was interesting. So ah Microsoft hired Nadella, CEO, in 14. And prior to 14, it was very much known as like a structure, very stringent company.
00:11:27
Speaker
And in 14, he took over, turned the culture around, changed the growth mindset, became more focused on growth, being more empathetic as a leader, listening to employees and getting them involved. So more of that EOS style, whether that's what it was exactly.
00:11:40
Speaker
But anyway, after that, their market cap increased, their employee retention improved, all those things improved at Microsoft after he took over. So how long did that trend last? Like, is that still the trend or did, and did him putting more focus on, on the feelings of the employees and the company give a boost? initially and then a tank.
00:12:02
Speaker
Yeah. That I don't know. I don't know on that one. um I just thought that was interesting though, that that little change of leadership, you know, increase the retention rate. right So I think that's, yeah you know, when you have a company, obviously retention can mean you're too easy on your employees.
Tailoring Leadership to Employees' Emotional Needs
00:12:19
Speaker
you're You're kind and you're too easy. Right. Or it can mean things, if it's really bad, things are are a mess. Right. Because, well, and that one's, that's a tricky one.
00:12:31
Speaker
because initially there are some places people work at because it's it's because it's easy. They don't want anybody holding them accountable. They don't want anybody calling them out. They want all the fields. And I do find that interesting. You in speaking just now, you said, think and thoughts and the word think several times while you were talking, which I like listening to people whenever they're, they're talking about stuff like that. And I'll find certain people say, I feel,
00:13:00
Speaker
would have used the word feel instead of think where you use the word think instead of feel. um But I think that that also lends itself to the way that they react sometimes um to situations because that's their go-to.
00:13:12
Speaker
So if your go-to as a leader is to immediately, if you like pay attention to yourself when you're talking, is your go-to always feel, I feel this, I feel that, I feel this.
00:13:25
Speaker
Maybe that is an indicator that you are more of an emotionally driven leader. Is that serving you or do you need to be aware of that and then maintain the good that that brings to what you're doing and intentionally start thinking a little more? Yeah.
00:13:44
Speaker
with the black and white facts instead of always the um feelings first. Yeah, I agree. I do use the word thing. Anyway, anyway um one thing too, I was thinking about while you were talking and kind of goes to the podcast space, even in kind of the online influencer space, but I've seen a lot of influencers and podcasters where it is more motivational.
00:14:06
Speaker
Yeah. which is listening more of a ah response, like an emotional response. So you feel good. You're excited. You're happy. You leave the event. And I've been to some of these events where that is very much the case.
00:14:18
Speaker
And I get annoyed at them because we'll be in the elevator and this dude that I met that morning who was not high energy is all of a sudden high energy. And I'll keep up with them or whatever on social media after the event.
00:14:30
Speaker
And you see so fast how that high energy person that was at a level 10 when they showed up at event it was then at a level 100 and they left the event within two weeks is back at level 10. And that annoyed me enough so that like in this space, in the ah self-improvement space, you know, the seminars, all this stuff, I find myself not going to any of those anymore because I got so annoyed at that type.
00:14:55
Speaker
It creates a frenzy. It creates
Balancing Emotional Understanding with Logical Decision-Making
00:14:57
Speaker
a frenzy. And some people need that once a while. So I'm not downplaying that those personalities are not needed, but I would much rather go to ones now and we're more involved with ones now.
00:15:07
Speaker
that are a little bit more little bit more driven on, hey, here's a strategy. Here's a specific nugget of wisdom. Here's something to go home with, implement inside your company, and actually do it. I think it also, that plays with self-motivation, like with a team. Like if you have to have somebody standing there constantly rah-rah-ing you, like, let's go, this is amazing, and doing all of the cheerleading moves on the sidelines, you are not self-motivated.
00:15:32
Speaker
yeah You're actually needing that encouragement to do your job. Yeah, and I bring all this up because I think part of emotional intelligence is knowing your employees, knowing who you lead, knowing what they need.
00:15:44
Speaker
So I bring that up because you may have to put on that hat once in a while. It is a little bit more of a cheerleader for employee a but for employee C, that may drive them nuts. I would get annoyed with that.
00:15:56
Speaker
And even when I worked sales a little bit in college, I hated that place I worked because it was all hype. It was just constantly this high energy, but not necessarily high productivity and high efficiency, just super high energy.
00:16:09
Speaker
And it was draining and annoying. But so I didn't need that. I need you to say, Hey, here's the five best ways to sell, figure out how to do it. Now go do it. And it'll give me the time to do it. So I think also with EI or EQ, knowing your employees and knowing what they need and tailoring your approach a little bit to that is important.
00:16:28
Speaker
As long as they're still the right person for your team. Now, and when you say tailor tailoring, a lot of people would have, would view that as manipulative. Like, oh, well, you're manipulating your presentation to get a certain response out of somebody else. And that's really, that's not what it is at all.
00:16:45
Speaker
It's not manipulation. That's the intelligence part. You are actually being so thoughtful to the person that you're speaking to and engaging with or needing to perform a certain way that you're delivering to that specific person what they need in order to best perform. Mm-hmm.
00:17:03
Speaker
And think that's important if you go into some of my other show notes for this where the whole next section was about being honest and being logical. Because a lot of people also will get emotional intelligence or or confused with, well, that means I need act like a psychologist the whole time.
00:17:19
Speaker
That's not what I'm saying. Empathy can be crippling. I think you need to be empathetic, but I think you have to be absolutely direct, honest, and transparent in your communication. And I think that is where, you know, when you talk about like a leader who is sound judgment, leads you through a storm, it is that combination of if I need them to be empathetic, they can be. Right. They do not blow me off, but they will communicate honestly and effectively ah as well at the same time. And a lot of people cannot do both. No.
00:17:49
Speaker
um They have a lot issues. And I'm surprised how many good people have trouble being direct and honest too. Yeah. because they think it will hurt someone's feelings. In the actuality, when you do that, all you're doing is delaying a problem. Right.
00:18:02
Speaker
Well, and you take any situation and applying that with ah an employer, with anything else, let's say you have somebody that is not, they're not, they're not clocking in on time. They're not clocking.
00:18:16
Speaker
they're They're not, they're clocking out early. They're not working as much as they should.
Gathering Information Before Emotional Reaction
00:18:20
Speaker
Then you find out that their kid is sick. So emotionally, immediately, you're like, oh, well, they're under a lot of stress. Let's not, you know, be finding out more information and you find out that they're not actually going home.
00:18:33
Speaker
They're skipping out and they're going to the casino and and gambling. doeses And they're using it as as an excuse. Because they know as boss, you'll feed into it. How does that change?
00:18:44
Speaker
So your immediate and emotional response to a situation that is emotional, you have to get more information because that's Sometimes it's that people are having a hard time.
00:18:56
Speaker
Sometimes it's that people are lazy and sometimes it's that people are lying. Yeah. No, I think that's good. I think being, which we're both pretty good about being honest, you're probably a little bit more, well, gut punched a little bit harder than I do.
00:19:12
Speaker
um I do usually take a second, ah but either way, both of us are very very honest. We explain the decision out. ah We explain the why, which I think is important.
00:19:23
Speaker
um But we don't necessarily delay honesty for the sake of we may hurt their feeling. And I think the reason we're able to do that is because we pre-frame. So talk a little bit about pre-framing. I love pre-framing.
00:19:35
Speaker
What is it? I'm getting ready to tell you something that's probably going to hurt your feelings, but I'm really tired of seeing you in black t-shirts. Yeah. I thought this was blue the whole time. Yeah.
00:19:47
Speaker
But pre-framing is whenever you know that what you're getting ready to say is can be interpreted a different way or it's going to hurt somebody's feelings. Or if just out of the blue, you come up to somebody and you say, you know what, you need to start showing up more you're lazy.
00:20:01
Speaker
That is anybody's going to find that offensive and they're going to be taken aback. And depending on how that person receives criticism like that, they're going to shut down. They're going get mad. They're going to whatever.
00:20:13
Speaker
But if you come up to them and tell them, I'm getting ready to tell you something that is probably going to upset you, but I need you to know that it's coming from a place of love or respect. I really have your best interest at heart.
00:20:24
Speaker
And then you tell them, it seems like to me that you've got a lot more to give, that you've been letting your foot off the gas, that you you're not as engaged as you used to be, and it's coming off as lazy.
00:20:36
Speaker
That hits a little different. It hits a lot different. And a lot of people don't do it. I don't understand why people do not do it. It's time consuming. It's time consuming. Coming up to somebody and being like, you're not performing. You're being lazy. Come on, let's step it up. And then you go about your day.
00:20:51
Speaker
takes a lot less time. in and And this isn't asking anyone to be disingenuous either. If you don't believe it, then don't say it. But for most part, I'm assuming if they still work for you, then they are still someone who has value there. So you should be able to walk up to them and honestly say, hey, I see you doing this. I know our core values, your core values. When we talked the last time, you wanted this, this, and this.
00:21:13
Speaker
And this here isn't going to get you there. And because I care about you, going to have this conversation. What can I do to help lead and coach you to success in whatever area this is? Most people are going to react great to that.
00:21:27
Speaker
But if I walk up and say, bro, you suck. Most people is going to be yeah not
How to Deliver Honest Feedback with Empathy
00:21:31
Speaker
happy. with me But we have had a lot of people that, you know, people a lot of like to say all the time, like you know, just give it to me. Honestly, I can take it. I like feedback. And then you give it to them and they're like, they're mad.
00:21:40
Speaker
Yeah. What's wrong with you? and So they really can't take it as well as what they think they can, um but they do like to give it. um So if you have a situation like that, I think it's always good.
00:21:51
Speaker
Like you say you value honesty. So I'm going to be honest with you in an area that I feel like needs. And and i've we've done that before because most of you listening are contractors or in the space of some kind.
00:22:04
Speaker
which lends itself to a certain type of person that normally likes to supposedly be shot straight with. So I've used that before where it's like, Hey, I know you're someone who wants it straight.
00:22:15
Speaker
I know you're someone who just wants me to rip this bandit off and go. So do I have her permission to do that? They will almost always answer yes. And then you go into nuts and bolts of what the issue is. I really have liking, especially for that, for the contracting world and for that type of work, I feel like private, like if you have to have moments where you're,
00:22:35
Speaker
you're critiquing somebody and like there's something that needs addressed. The private criticism, I mean, that's, that's all well and good, but sometimes I feel like group criticism has an effective role because it's, people know that there's a standard. They also know that when that, they see when somebody is not meeting the standard, but they may not necessarily know that you've corrected it with that person.
00:23:02
Speaker
So, so And then it helps everybody hold each other accountable too. So I feel like there could be, I'm a proponent of that. I think that there needs to be some of that.
00:23:15
Speaker
Like, Hey, you know, there's a standard and and we all want to meet that standard. And do you feel like you've been meeting it and give some honest conversation and say, I don't feel like you've actually been meeting the standard.
00:23:28
Speaker
um And then everybody holds themselves accountable and each other accountable. Yeah, I think another important part of this that a lot of people miss out on. You probably do a little bit better at this than I do or at least better immediately.
00:23:41
Speaker
I'm a little slower to warm up to people and give initially until I feel like I know them at least a little bit. But all of this, like the directness, the honesty, the critique, the accountability is all possible.
00:23:54
Speaker
because you should have connected with them in some way, shape or form personally. So you do a really good job of that initially, especially of connecting with them on a personal level, whether that's through family, um self-improvement that they want to have happen, building them up, whatever that is in an honest way, but you've connected with them in such a way that allows you to then have the accountability here.
00:24:18
Speaker
And I think a lot of people miss out on that where they just want to be direct, They just want to push through from a corporate or a company perspective and not take the time to actually connect with people on a personal level.
00:24:29
Speaker
And I think then you're almost there, but until you do that, you're not all the way there. Well, and the way that I do it, um lot of times people will say that I'm a good, really good gift giver.
00:24:42
Speaker
You are. um And I use that kind of as the my measuring stick for have I gotten to know this person In a meaningful way.
00:24:52
Speaker
If I can sit and think about a person and think of a gift that is unique and special to them that I know I could go get them and it would be on point, then I feel like I've gotten to know them a little bit.
00:25:04
Speaker
um If I come up blank, then I clearly need to put a little bit more effort into getting to know something about them. So that's kind of what I use. is Yeah. And I think, but but you also come across as genuine.
00:25:15
Speaker
You come across as a pathetic, you come across as caring. So that allows you, though, to be more direct when the time calls for it. thank So don't underestimate those aspects of this as well.
00:25:26
Speaker
There was one thing I read when I was kind of researching this a little bit and I wrote it down. i thought was a good quote. ah Empathy does not mean agreement.
Understanding Empathy in Leadership
00:25:35
Speaker
It means understanding. Because I think a lot of leaders will sometimes say that, you know, they they feel that, I'll use the word feel, they feel that if they show too much empathy, that it either shows weakness or it shows that they agree.
00:25:48
Speaker
And you have to be able to have conversations with people where you show them some empathy, understanding, but yet you still disagree with what they're saying in a respectful way. I hear what you're saying. I understand there's there's situations, circumstances, but it's still not okay. Yeah.
00:26:05
Speaker
Yeah. Or, you know, hey, this goes against our core values as a company. You know, this is something we've talked about in the past during, you know, reviews or whatever. And this isn't cutting it here. You know what i mean?
00:26:17
Speaker
Yeah. So they can still explain to you why it's not happening. And then your job is to, if it's a legit reason, it acknowledge the legit reason. If it's not, you still got to call it out.
00:26:28
Speaker
Let them talk. Don't interrupt them. But then say that sounds more like an excuse. Yeah. And we're going to move towards solutions. Yeah. The thing is, is if you are an emotionally driven person, you need to understand about yourself. You are easy to manipulate.
00:26:45
Speaker
You are. You're easy to manipulate and you're going to get manipulated by people who don't have your best interest at heart because all they got to do is bring the feels into the room. They got you in a corner crying and then all of a sudden they can get you do whatever they want you to do.
00:26:56
Speaker
Like you feel for the person, you feel bad for them, you feel happy for them, you understand, all of a sudden you're doing stuff that you don't want to do or that you don't completely agree with or that's not in your core values because they've taken you down this emotional rabbit hole and they've got you feeling for them all sorts of ways and now you're doing stuff that you you you don't end up correcting them, you don't end up doing whatever because they use those emotions against you.
00:27:17
Speaker
If you are an all thinking person with no emotional intelligence, you got to understand you come off as an asshole and nobody's going to respect you because they're going to put you in asshole category. And they're going to be like, he doesn't understand. He doesn't relate to people. He doesn't know what's going on.
00:27:30
Speaker
He doesn't have our, he's all about the business. He doesn't care about any of us. And that's equally as bad. So you have to have emotional intelligence with either way that you approach a situation.
Components of Emotional Intelligence
00:27:42
Speaker
You have to make sure and bring your a game with that as well, because it's what protects you from yourself. Emotional intelligence protects you from, the bad way that you are going to handle a situation.
00:27:55
Speaker
Yeah. And wrote down in the show notes, one of One of them was self-awareness. So five key components, self-awareness, self-regulation, motivation of self and others, empathy and social skills. So that would fall into the self-awareness category where you know, hey, this is usually your go-to.
00:28:10
Speaker
So that means that's something you need to work on, which in our call to action this podcast, we're going to talk about finding something that you are no good at, focusing on it for the next week or two, study up on it, read up on it, but be aware of it and try to fix it. But self-awareness would definitely be where that falls. Yeah.
00:28:26
Speaker
Motivation of self. We didn't really talk about that one much, but I think that's important with EQ is being able to motivate yourself and others as well. And a lot of people are maybe great at motivating themselves or motivating others, but not both. And I think as a leader, you have to be able to maintain your motivation internally without having to have someone constantly motivate you.
00:28:48
Speaker
Um, Because you are setting the tone for the entire rest of your company by either being not motivated or whatever. What do you think on that? No, i you are the tone setter.
00:28:59
Speaker
The leader is the tone setter. You need to be the loudest in the room.
00:29:06
Speaker
Yeah. So you guys probably can hear Noah, but Noah said, uh, motivating others can help motivate yourself. And I would say that is 100% true. We both do a lot of mentoring, And honestly, when I leave those sessions of mentoring someone else, I honestly feel like I mentored myself into the process because it it'll highlight, Hey, I'm telling someone else to do this. And actually I, I'm not a hundred percent there myself.
00:29:29
Speaker
Um, or simply watching them be successful. Like, man, I need to, I need to get this going again. Um, social skills. I hate that one. I hate it.
00:29:41
Speaker
So this is my weakness. I do not like it. I do not like, Rooms of people shooting the shit. None of that is i don't either appealing to me whatsoever. It needs to be a purpose and it needs to be, needs to be a reason to do it. I want to actually know you for and you know a period of time before I tell you any details about me at all.
00:30:00
Speaker
But Annie, I'm going ask you, what is something you're a little bit better at this than I am? What is something for someone, for someone listening, it's a little bit more like me. That's like, I don't really see the value in this. And I help us. I was you like,
00:30:13
Speaker
Myers-Briggs wise, I'm 98% introvert. but i but Noah, do you think Annie's socially challenged? She's pretty good at he said She says she sucks at it.
00:30:27
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, she does go to the mindset that she's going to help them or or find something you know to get out of it. Yeah. And to in order to interact with people, in a way that is going to be most meaningful for them and help them, then I have to get out of the way.
00:30:44
Speaker
So the part of me that is introverted, the part of me that is like, I'd like to stand in the corner and not talk to people, just sit here and observe, read my book. I used to always, always go anywhere with a book in my purse because I did not want people to engage with me.
00:30:57
Speaker
And if I was sitting there, I would get that book. I wouldn't even read it sometimes, but I'd have that book in front of me so that people would not talk to me. I've traveled with my camera because if you're behind a camera, nobody talks to you. like But if I want to help people and I want to be involved in their life and and help them in a meaningful way, then I had to get out of my
Engaging as an Introverted Leader
00:31:14
Speaker
way.
00:31:14
Speaker
And the thing that I had to get out of the way was not wanting to interact with them. um And maybe what you have to get out of the way is interacting too much. Maybe you're somebody that sits there and you just yap all the time. Like you just don't have that filter to to shut it off and actually listen.
00:31:31
Speaker
Like there's a balance between both. talking and engaging and listening. Sometimes it's observing. Sometimes it's just sitting there and watching somebody. And like, if you're out in there's a waitress and you're watching her and she smiles when she's at a table and as soon as she walks away, like that smile disappears and there's this painful look on her face. She's not having a good day.
00:31:50
Speaker
Like she needs somebody to say, Hey, you doing okay? Like those types of interactions. you interact with somebody else, even if you're introverted by being empathetic to what that person's going through. And maybe they need you to show up for them in that moment. So reading body language, tone and facial expression is huge. And I know a lot of people don't do that enough. And like, for example, um this is why I do not like about social settings is the dumb niceties.
00:32:18
Speaker
So the things that really have no purpose. So Oh, how's your day? Oh, the weather's sunny. Oh, if I'm talking about the weather it's little bit. knew all this stuff before I got here. I knew how I felt already. yeah I knew that the weather was sunny when I got here. The weather's awesome. Of course, I'm going to weather's great.
00:32:31
Speaker
I don't like that kind of stuff. But what she's getting at here, you can be introverted. You can be a little shy. You can not love social skills. But if you can walk into a room or a social setting and say, and actually pick up on this body language and tone and to a waitress or whatever and say,
00:32:47
Speaker
I can tell you're off what's going on in your life. That is a lot different than saying, how's your day? Everybody's going to tell you it's fine. Cause you didn't pick up on anything. Right. like yeah they They know that's a nice thing. They know you're just being kind. And there's, there's the people out here that you don't know, like they're still throwing signals at you, but then the people in your inner circle, like you could, they're picking their fingers.
00:33:09
Speaker
Like, and you know, like they don't pick their fingers unless they're worked up about something. You can choose to ignore that. and Well, something's going, I'm not going down that rabbit hole. I don't want to know. I don't have time for that stuff today.
00:33:21
Speaker
Or you can take a minute and be like, what's going on? You clearly know something's going on. they're sitting there picking their fingers. They don't normally do that. yeah So then just pull it out of them because, but that is that is using your EQ.
00:33:35
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. And I think when you said that, made me think of a term I use some in these kinds of
Addressing Issues Directly with Emotional Intelligence
00:33:41
Speaker
settings. It's rip the bandaid off. You know a lot of people are not comfortable doing that. And the reason I like to is because a lot of this kind of stuff festers, you know, so like, let's just use the waitress example again. They're having a bad day.
00:33:56
Speaker
You can either choose in that moment to rip that bandaid off and help them or ask the question at the very beginning of your meal. And maybe that changes their entire day, changes the tone of the meal, changes the tone of their service.
00:34:08
Speaker
you're going to feel different because you just changed the direction of their, the trajectory of their day because you ripped the bandaid off. So many people are afraid to do that. Well, they're passing the buck too. They're saying, you know, I don't want to be the one to do it. Like, well, and they do one of two things.
00:34:21
Speaker
They will say somebody else is going to handle this. Or if that person really needed to talk, they would talk. Well, you got to understand that that person that's assuming that that person has a high emotional intelligence because to be able to stand there in front of somebody and say, Hey,
00:34:37
Speaker
I need to talk to you about something. This is going on and I need to address this. I'm having all of these feelings. I need to talk to somebody that actually takes ah high emotional intelligence to be able to do that, to just walk up to somebody and do that. We keep it in. And as humans, we try to deal with it ourself or we get depressed or there's all these ways that we cope with it.
00:34:55
Speaker
So you need to not pass the buck and assume that somebody else is going to talk to you if they need to. Yeah. And that's the ripping the bandaid off part. No, I agree with that a hundred percent. um But within a company,
00:35:07
Speaker
That's usually valuable. Yeah. Don't let that stuff just sit there. Like you see it and. Oh, it'll fester. Yeah. All of a sudden there's five employees instead of one. ah The other item that I had wrote down that I want to make sure we hit on was being open about your thought processes. So teaching and explaining. I am terrible at that.
00:35:24
Speaker
So if you think about two different bosses, you think about boss one, it's just like the old school do it cause they told you to, which technically speaking, it's probably should be fine, but it's not. I don't do that though. Because people do have a choice. I'm not saying that's you. i'm just saying some people do that. Well, I'm saying there's a third option. Oh, okay. um So that doesn't work long-term. Nobody wants to stay there. Employees have options. They can leave your company. You're really high turnover.
00:35:48
Speaker
Or you can explain and teach. And what explaining and teaching does, in my opinion, if you can explain it and you can teach it, Obviously, that is not an F. That is not a feeling because you really can't teach and explain that because your feelings are going to different than mine and different than Noah's.
00:36:01
Speaker
I can teach and explain a T, a think. So when you do that, not only are you hopefully getting their buy-in, you're building culture, you're getting their buy-in, but you're also moving it away from an emotional conversation, a feeling conversation to a thinking conversation, in which in the business world, for the most part, is ideal, I think.
00:36:19
Speaker
Do you agree? I do. Awesome. I agree. So... um But with that too, I think it allows you to kind of control the conversation and keep it on to solution based points. But you are inevitably going to have somebody that after you deliver your very well thought out, thoughtful thinking presentation, somebody is going to go, but I feel like this isn't going to accomplish blah, blah, blah.
00:36:46
Speaker
And then you take it back to their natural goal of whatever we're doing. so But sometimes, sometimes that's still you preaching at somebody that this is the way we're going to do it. When there needs to be more, um sometimes you can lead people to getting on board themselves by asking them questions.
00:37:03
Speaker
Well, how do you think that it is going to work if, or, you know, get them engaged in walking themselves into what you presented with questions that you ask them.
00:37:14
Speaker
Yeah. One thing as you were talking that made me think, so, People who don't take criticism well. I view, typically speaking, those people as more feeling based and thinking because and I think as a leader, when you take when you get criticism, you immediately will say, okay, this is true or this is false.
Learning from Criticism: Facts Over Emotions
00:37:35
Speaker
And no matter what, if it's true or false, then from the feeling strategy, if it's true, hopefully you took ownership of it. You didn't immediately attack them for attacking you. You realize, hey, they're actually accurate. I need do something about this.
00:37:48
Speaker
But sometimes the feeling focused people will actually view but both as attack, whether it's true or false. I think if you can move that towards a thinking thing and say, hey, I received this criticism.
00:37:59
Speaker
And so I think all criticism comes through as a boss or as a leader. You must then go through and say, you know what? There is something to learn from this. Even if it's 90% incorrect, I have 10% that I can improve.
00:38:12
Speaker
So what is something that I need to work on? Oh, this sucks. You're doing this on air. um If I had to pick one earlier in the podcast, I mentioned that you do a very good job of initially like really getting to know people like. Are you doing a compliment sandwich right now?
00:38:29
Speaker
Not purpose. You did a really good job right off the bat of hitting people with like all in. hu And it seems like because you demand a lot of people as time goes on, you realize, well, they didn't, they didn't, they're not stepping up here or here.
00:38:43
Speaker
And then you seem to back off instead of going harder. I would challenge you to maybe not back off quite as quick on some people. I would definitely agree that I do that I don't always do that um I do have a really low tolerance for first I hate repeating myself so if I had to repeat myself several times that will cause me to back off um but then also reading people a little bit of how much pushing they can take and
00:39:16
Speaker
I'll push people harder if I think they can take more. ah A lot of times if I back off, because I think either they don't give enough to actually improve and I'm wasting my time by continuing to push or they're just not capable of giving anymore.
00:39:30
Speaker
But sometimes I do get that maybe part of the introvert that comes out where I'm like, I can't go anymore. on, on this one. I got to take myself out of the, so if you're going into like a, you're going, you're going in to help them, but then after a month, you're like, you know what? They actually don't want to help themselves. so Is that fair?
00:39:48
Speaker
Yeah. That's when you back off. That's when I back off some. That's fair. Cause I mean, i will, I'll stick it out and I'll, Oh, you will. You do some stuff. Sometimes I'm like, no way I would go that far for that long. Yeah. But, but I think that that is a very important point is, is that you can do all of these things within your company and for people, but,
00:40:08
Speaker
They have to want
Recognizing Employee Capacity Limits
00:40:09
Speaker
it themselves. so Like there has to be something there fundamentally that as you're giving feedback, they're capable of responding to that. There are some people that are not capable of providing any more and you're you're wanting more out of them.
00:40:25
Speaker
And the reality is, is you need to let them go. yeah they're They're capped out at at what they can give you. So if you keep revisiting that same thing, It's great if you go into it with, you know, all this emotional intelligence and and you've got a plan of how you're going to do this and you're doing it the very best presentation to this person.
00:40:43
Speaker
The reality is, is that they have no more to give you. You've just wasted your time by delivering that because you're not going to get any more and then you're going to get frustrated. And if this is the second or third or fourth or fifth time that you've brought them in there hoping to do this, you are now.
00:40:59
Speaker
causing problems for the rest of the team by continuing to keep a person that has now become a project. That's good. And I think there's different applications for whether this is within a business or without outside of a business.
00:41:12
Speaker
It is. And for the most part, guys, we're talking about this mostly in a corporate setting and business setting, although it does work in other areas of life. I think, I think especially we're going to talk like masculinity and the role of a male in most settings, I think you do need to practice being the calm, the strategy, the person that go to go to that kind of stuff. But,
00:41:35
Speaker
Talk to me just a little bit. We spoke on break just a little bit about not being all T thinking, yeah but a little bit of f is still needed. So talk a little bit about that because we're not saying with all this to remove all F. We're simply saying lead with the T. You can come back in with the F if you need to follow up some, but you got to have a little bit of both. So I am not saying come in all T with no F. right so But before I talk about that, what you said that I needed to work on,
00:42:05
Speaker
you know how to talk to me.
Integrating Thinking and Feeling in Leadership
00:42:07
Speaker
You know that it doesn't really matter. I don't have to a pre-framed. I don't have to have, but you didn't actually give a good example of how to pre-frame that to somebody. Which? What you said I needed to work on.
00:42:16
Speaker
Like if he was giving an example to them of how pre-framing needed to happen, you didn't do that, but you knew your audience. You knew that I don't need a lot of the squishy feel good stuff. yeah You're going to tell me I need to work on something. And then you tell me. we've talked about it before.
00:42:28
Speaker
um But also like I do need to work on, part of the EQ that I need to work on is is I push, and I push hard. And I get disappointed with people.
00:42:42
Speaker
And sometimes it's, I don't make a lot of allowance for them not having the ability to do it, because I really think that some people have more ability than others, but if you really wanted it to do something, you could knuckle down and do it.
00:42:58
Speaker
So I don't, I don't have a lot of forgiveness in that area. If you're not doing something, then to me, it's just, you are being lazy and you're not putting effort into it. Yeah. Cause no, I agree. it So when don' you start wrapping this up soon, but I think the biggest kind of takeaway. Oh, right we needed to talk about the, what you said before, which, um, yeah. So I really think that the perfect marriage of this, if you're looking at truly healthy ways of presenting things,
00:43:26
Speaker
And with Myers-Briggs, there's this this sliding scale of your thinking or your feeling. But the reality is, is that you have to bring both to the table. Like you can't just and it can't be a cop out and it can't be an excuse for you to deliver things shitty.
00:43:41
Speaker
Like you don't get to say that, like, well, I'm thinking. So that's why I'm an asshole or, you know, I'm feeling. So that's why I cry all the time and I can't get my shit together. Like you don't get to do that. You have to bring both to the table. and And if you are lacking in one, then you put some effort into bringing that one up to speed and vice versa.
00:43:59
Speaker
And the ah perfect way to approach situations is thoughtfully with your facts, actual facts, black and white facts of what's happening, Actually, with combined with the feelings of others, with what your feelings are bringing to the table.
00:44:16
Speaker
Like I'm feeling angry that I've had to talk to you about this three times and we're doing it again. And maybe they're coming and saying, you know what? I'm coming in here with some anger because I've been blah, blah, blah. And this is still happening.
00:44:28
Speaker
Like, so putting some thought into how people are feeling in the moment and marry the two. Like feelings can exist in the room, but bring the facts back in to balance everything out.
00:44:40
Speaker
And that is the perfect way, I think, to address most things with most people. think that's true. And I was trying to think of a way, because guys, if you've not noticed, I like to bullet point things and have a habit key takeaway.
00:44:52
Speaker
And if I had to summarize all of this up in one word, it would be and intentionality. So to me, if an event happens at work, at home, with a child, with your wife, your husband, whatever,
00:45:04
Speaker
if you respond with full intentionality, meaning intention with your emotions, intention with whatever you're getting ready leading with facts first, all of that is you responding intentionally. So you're not just responding with the immediate emotion that came.
00:45:22
Speaker
You're not just immediately responding with only facts, putting them, you know, if they're reacting in an emotional way and you just start spitting facts, that's probably not going to be effective. And and I always say, all of our goals with every interaction should be to be effective, whatever it is, whether that's to lead people to, to move towards, you know, a common, Hey, like we both agree on this, whatever it is, it has to be effective. We're all just talking for no purpose, well and but it has to be intentional.
00:45:48
Speaker
the The emotional side of your brain actually is where the associated memories happen. And that actually grounds people like that makes things more memorable.
00:45:58
Speaker
that then emotional side, if you can tie that to your bullet pointed list of this is the expectations. Like I know my grandfather would played a big role in my life. I adored him in everything he taught me so much and he had his bullet point list. Like you, there was the right way and a wrong way to do things. And the right way was grandpa's way like that.
00:46:20
Speaker
He was very black and white. It was very black and white, but the emotion attached to my grandfather is an anchor for me. There's a list of the way that, that he did things and I learned how to do things, but there's an emotional anchor there. If you can emotionally anchor things, when you tell people things, they're going to remember it a lot, a lot long The other thing I know your relationship with your grandpa was one of the best you've had in your family, but the other thing he had, so he was black and white and was very direct and that's why a lot of people did not like him. It's true.
00:46:48
Speaker
But what he did have is he was probably one of the most genuine and the most intentional people in your family too, though. Mm-hmm. Like he had depth there that if you didn't take the time to get to know it, and you didn't know it was there and you just thought he was being a dick.
00:47:01
Speaker
But in actuality, he was one of the nicer people in the family, but he was genuine. He had depth, but you had to get to know him. I think that's what the difference was. And I knew he valued, he valued honesty. He valued integrity. He valued.
00:47:14
Speaker
you know, the way that you did things mattered the way that you put 110% into the way that you did something and you did it the right way. and He set a culture and a standard for you. He did. Yeah. And to this day, when I do things, it's, you know, I'm not going to cut corners because grandpa never cut corners and he didn't teach me to cut corners and I'm not going to cut corners.
00:47:33
Speaker
ah He didn't, he didn't cut corners. I'm gonna let you ask or issue a challenge. based upon, so one thing we have not touched on is like these five signs that I had wrote down in our show notes, signs of low emotional intelligence. So guys, as I spit these out, think internally, think about, hey does this apply to me? If it does, then we got a challenge for you to end. But number one, you get reactive or you shut down under stress. So do you avoid number two, struggle with giving or receiving feedback? Is that something you're, you do not like to do like give it and can you take it? Well, number three,
00:48:07
Speaker
Avoiding conflict or micromanaging your team. Number four, employees or family, people that you lead do not trust your leadership. And number five, finally, you self-sabotage decisions out of fear and or ego.
00:48:22
Speaker
So, Annie, what would be a good... challenge ah from this podcast and those points that you would leave people with for the next week or two to work on? Well, first, I think that you are really good in all of those areas.
00:48:33
Speaker
Like I would definitely follow you over a cliff. So, um, you too. Thanks, babe. Um, but with this challenge, like there's not an excuse, if you, you can't be a victim of this.
00:48:49
Speaker
If you suck in this area, do better, be better, work on it. Like figure out ways where you can actually work on this and elevate yourself in this area because you're failing in an area. If you are bad in this area, you are failing.
00:49:02
Speaker
So if you care about self-improvement, this has to be an area that you improve in. um And I think the best way to do that is to hear yourself. So maybe you put a note on your door and say all day today, all conversations are going to be recorded.
00:49:15
Speaker
um or you tell your wife or you tell your husband, I'm going to have the recorder on. I need to hear how i speak to you. I need to hear how I respond to you. And then go back and listen to yourself. Listen to how you interact with your kids, with your with your spouse, with your employees. When somebody comes in and they confront you, how do you talk to people in the drive-thru? Like, listen to the way you are communicating with those around you.
00:49:39
Speaker
That is the best way for you to get a temperature read of how others are seeing you. If you're sitting there and you listen to yourself and it's cringy, You need to work on some stuff. And one thing you could do as a leader, I think, to owner or manager at ah at a company is what's one thing we all do? We want to evaluate every person that works for us.
00:49:57
Speaker
How many of you ask for your own evaluation from your team? You're good at that. Yeah. So and you may have to make it where it's anonymous. So you can create like a Google form, have someone else do it.
00:50:08
Speaker
But you need to actually get feedback into the effectiveness of your leadership. What do they hate about you? What do they love about you? But I would challenge you guys along with her challenge to do that. Send out an anonymous survey, have someone else do it if you need to, but get some feedback on yourself.
00:50:22
Speaker
yeah So it is time to wrap this up where you're nearing the hour. Guys, if you're not in our Facebook group, do it. i don't know what you're waiting on. It's time to do it. That group is up over 500, almost 600 now. And we just started it maybe two months ago.
00:50:36
Speaker
And leadership is about being effective communicator. And if you are not communicating effectively with your team, you're You're not leading. Yeah. We talk on this podcast all the time about being effective. So if you're not good at this and you don't think you need to be, you're the one that's going lose out. You'll be working for somebody else in a couple of years. Your team will move on and you'll be wondering, why does nobody ever want to work for me? Our retention, ah employee retention rate is like 50% plus.
00:51:01
Speaker
So, but again, if you guys are not in a Facebook group, apply to be so. I think you'll find a lot of value in there. If you found this podcast helpful, please share it. We do not run ads. We do not ask for anything other than to share it.
00:51:13
Speaker
We want to change the contracting space. And the only way we can do that is by getting this kind of work out there to help you guys improve and teach you guys. And if you're the person that needs to be told how to do things because I said so, then just go share this because I said so.
00:51:28
Speaker
There, that's the perfect ending. Guys, thank you. We appreciate you. Thanks for listening. See you next time. Bye.