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00:00:01
God’s Will or Just Your Feelings? Here’s How to Tell the Difference
46 Plays16 days ago
In this episode, Dan Sanchez and Pastor Ridley Barron dive into the topic of calling, using Moses' story in Exodus as a foundation. They discuss the different types of calling—salvation, ministry, and daily guidance—and explore how to discern God's voice in decision-making. Ridley shares his own calling story and offers practical advice on recognizing God's direction, overcoming fear, and seeking wise counsel. They also touch on common objections people raise when considering ministry or service and the importance of being open to where God may lead.
Timestamps:00:00 – Introduction: The Question of Calling
01:47 – Defining Calling: Does It Mean a Dramatic Moment?
03:29 – Ridley’s Personal Story of Calling to Ministry
05:13 – How Do You Know If It’s a True Calling?
09:29 – Discerning God’s Voice vs. Personal Feelings
16:25 – When You’re Unsure: Waiting for Clarity
24:25 – How Does God Choose Leaders?
27:06 – The Pressure to Be Great vs. Faithfulness in Small Things
30:50 – The Most Common Excuses for Avoiding Ministry
35:18 – Overcoming Fear and Lies That Hold Us Back
36:32 – Closing Thoughts and Encouragement
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Transcript
00:00:00
Dan Sanchez
Welcome back to the Grove Hill Church podcast. I'm Dan Sanchez, and I'm joined by Pastor Ridley Barron. And we are continuing on in our journey through the Bible. We're now in the beginning of Exodus. And there was one main topic. I knew as soon as it came up in the sermon that I'm like, ah, this is the main focus for this week. wasn't something you preached, Ridley, but it was something that stuck out to me because it was a question in my mind that I've i've had for a while that I'm like, huh, this kind of ties into this. And it's the question around calling.
00:00:30
Dan Sanchez
in Exodus obviously like Moses has one of the most dramatic callings in like all of scripture right with the burning bush and being called by God and him arguing with God.
00:00:41
Dan Sanchez
And there's a lot to get into there, but I have some other questions related to Moses, but I wanted to kind of open it up because oftentimes when we hear about calling, we don't have a burning but moment that we get to test and and prove that like God is talking to us where he's saying, step onto holy ground.
00:00:57
Ridley
Right. Yep.
00:01:00
Dan Sanchez
you know As much as we all may I think some of us think we might want a moment like that in our lives to tell us what to do We don't get that moment So I thought I'd dive into this topic around calling because I hear it all the time in the Christian community like hey pray pray pray about that see what god's will is have you talked to the lord about that what is the holy spirit telling you these are all things that i hear all the time so when it comes to listening to god's voice or hearing a calling one do you do you differentiate them in like calling is there something special i guess there's three camps that i would say like a calling to salvation right there's a calling maybe around ministry then there's god's guidance in our lives did you put them in the same camps
00:01:46
Ridley
um um Although I am guilty of using the words interchangeably, I do not put them in the same camp. I do feel like there's a different ah different sense of purpose and meaning behind each one of those. um um I don't know if that's the right word to use. I do feel like that we overuse the word calling and many times we we for lack of better, we blame the Holy Spirit for things that we were already inclined to be a part of. So for me, for me calling is this overwhelming sense of purpose or mission that God is redirecting your life towards something different than what you were already headed towards. I guess my logic, this is the only thing I can attribute to you, my logic is
00:02:36
Ridley
If you're already on a trajectory, and on a path to be doing something, then God's not going to speak to you and tell you anything. There's no reason to redirect where you're going or what you're thinking or what you're feeling. So if you come to me and say, God has called me to keep doing what I'm doing, I don't i don't think that's a calling. I think that's just God affirming. Yeah, you're doing good. Keep on going.
00:02:56
Ridley
I think calling is like God sticking his hand down in the river to redirect it, the the pattern of your life to a different place than what you have already had on your radar and as part of your you're doing. The story of Moses that we were talking about this past week is a perfect example. Moses was content to spend his life on the backside of the wilderness with his sheep and his wife and his father-in-law. And God came in and said, no, ah ah there's something I need you to do. And so I'm calling you away from what your pattern is to put you in a different path.
00:03:26
Dan Sanchez
And that's, if I remember your story, rather that's kind of what happened to you. You were on a trajectory to play play sports and become an architect, correct?
00:03:34
Ridley
Yep.
00:03:35
Dan Sanchez
In college and you felt the calling pulling you in a different direction.
00:03:38
Ridley
Yeah, it's it's exactly right. I mean, nothing about what my plan for high school was was wrong. If I had totally missed God talking to me that day and gone on with it, I don't think God would have punished me because it was not a wrong thing to go get a job, to have a career, to want those things in life.
00:03:57
Ridley
But God, for whatever reason, decided to redirect my life towards something differently. And that that's to me is a legitimate calling.
00:04:07
Dan Sanchez
I remember being at a youth conference once where they had this huge promotion and an altar call to like go do a short term mission trip.
00:04:16
Ridley
yeah
00:04:17
Dan Sanchez
I remember watching all the people stand up and go, I'm like, God bless those people.
00:04:17
Ridley
Yeah.
00:04:21
Dan Sanchez
I don't feel a thing right now. I had no sense of wanting to go to the mission field.
00:04:26
Ridley
yeah
00:04:26
Dan Sanchez
Since then, now that I've learned more about missions and stuff, I've had to sit down with God and be like, God, like, do you want me to drop everything I'm doing and just like move overseas? Amy used to want to be like, had it had but it felt like as as a young young girl that she might need to be a missionary.
00:04:42
Dan Sanchez
And now she's like, no. Don't. Don't even ask. Don't even pray that dangerous prayer. and I'm like, god Amy, we got to be open to this at any time.
00:04:48
Ridley
yeah Well, and
00:04:50
Dan Sanchez
like You never know. So how do you know? How do you know if it's a specifically to something like ministry or to something like mission? So this is like big decision. How would one know if it's actually a calling or maybe you just got like this like sense of guilt in the back of your mind that you could be doing something harder with your life?
00:05:09
Ridley
Well, ah let let me go back to the story of Moses because I think it's a great example for us being one of the first stories of somebody actually being called to something. You'll remember in the story I pointed out Sunday, I think in one of the services, one of the first things that God said to Moses is, lay down your rod that you use to shepherd your sheep. So in other words, God was saying to him, lay down the thing that's given you your your identity, your worth right now.
00:05:35
Ridley
put that down before me because you're going to take it up and you're going to use it in a different way. God was calling Moses away from something to something else. So I think initially when you're at that place where you're praying about ministry or some kind of involvement in a ministry program or something, I think the first thing God says to you is, are you willing to detach yourself from all the things that you are connected to that give you your worth right now?
00:06:02
Ridley
And that's probably the hardest part of hearing God is because many of us go to God and and we say, here here's what I have. How do you want to use it? And God goes, no, i don't I don't need what you have. I'll give you what you need. you know I think many times we just kind of keep wanting to hold on to the old life thinking that God's just going to use that to do whatever whatever he needs to do.
00:06:27
Dan Sanchez
is it something where we need to have like a sense of openness to those things if we're like maybe like missions for example like it's just kind of keep that open-handed and as something happens uh maybe that's an opportunity that the lord's pressed upon us the reason why i ask is i just finished reading with my homes my kids for homeschool we werere so were studying american history and they pulled up a
00:06:40
Ridley
Yes.
00:06:48
Dan Sanchez
The story of the there was one main Spanish Catholic priest who felt like a sense of calling to go do missions in in Mexico or the Americas He's the guy who ended up planting like all the different missions along the California coast that guy
00:07:03
Ridley
wow.
00:07:04
Dan Sanchez
I can't remember his name even though I just read it. What was it again? But he had a sense of calling even though he was like highly esteemed, well-educated. This was like let somebody else do it. you're You're pretty high up there. You have a good trajectory here in Spain like with the Catholic Church. He's like, I just ah just feel like maybe this is it.
00:07:23
Dan Sanchez
So, but he didn't. And then they had, they were going to send a group of five and two of them dropped out and they pulled him and his friend. They're like, Hey, would you guys be willing to go on their steps? Like they got cold feet ain't going. They're like, that's the sign. I'm like, is it one of those things where you just need to open, leave it open handed like that. And then just let God direct you as it needs to be. Or is it something like once God puts in your heart, you should actually search it out.
00:07:47
Ridley
I think calling requires a constant and consistent conversation with God. It's like checking in all along the way with your GPS if you're going someplace you've never seen.
00:07:58
Ridley
you You check in every, you know, half a mile, quarter a mile to make sure you don't miss your turns or whatever. I think that kind of conversation is necessary with God because God is, He's taking you into new land, new territory, you know, and so having an openness to how He wants to use you, where He wants to use you, the timing in what He wants to use you. I think the other thing that's important is, for me, there's a differentiation between the universal callings we hear in Scripture versus the specific callings.
00:08:27
Ridley
Like, for instance, the call to go to the ends of the earth is a universal calling. For some of us, that means just going across the street and sharing with our neighbor. For others of us, that means giving large amounts of our resources to support others who physically go. For some, it means selling everything we have and and going around the world and being there physically for ourselves. But all of us are called to be involved in supportive of missions because it's the great commission for all Christians. Specifically, there is a ah ah unique calling on people you and I have friends who are in the mission field because one day God interrupted their lives and said hey your plans are good but mine are better and I want you to follow me and do this. So I think in all of those things whether it's a universal calling or a unique calling that constant communication with God keeps you completely constantly aware of where where here and how he wants to use you in those conversations.
00:09:21
Dan Sanchez
So in that communication with God, when you're you're listening to his voice, and I believe that you can hear his voice because it says so, like his sheep will hear his voice.
00:09:28
Ridley
Mm-hmm.
00:09:30
Dan Sanchez
I've also come from a charismatic background where I feel like that gets used and abused like to no end.
00:09:35
Ridley
Yes.
00:09:35
Dan Sanchez
And I've worked in admissions colleges where a student one day is like, yes, I'm here at this college because I felt like God's calling me to go work in Africa.
00:09:36
Ridley
Yes.
00:09:41
Dan Sanchez
You're like, great, let's work towards that. And later it's like, well, I'm gonna drop out. I thought God called you to Africa. Well, now I wanna go study worship in California. you're like God changed his mind? He's like, yes. I'm like, okay. But I find that happens a lot. You know, it's kind of been like, what what mood am I in? And that's how I'm going to interpret God's will today. So how do we make sure we're actually like, like hearing his voice versus just kind of going with our feelings on the day?
00:10:10
Ridley
You know, I like to use illustrations. If somebody were to leave me a million dollars tomorrow, and I knew I wanted to do something with those $1 million dollars and I was getting close to making the decision, I would probably bring in different forms of accountability in that decision-making process to make sure I'm not just winging it. I would probably have financial investors, I might have family and friends, I might invite my church to pray for me about that. I would have all these other voices in there, that that group of counsel, if you will, that would keep me from making major mistakes with how I invested that. well you and i have
00:10:44
Ridley
time, talent, skills that we are given to invest in God's kingdom and his work. And so as we are pursuing God's direction for our life, whether that's moving down the natural path that we're already on or being called into something different, it's wise to have those voices around us that constantly keep our motivations in check. Of course, praying is is number one. And if you don't have a regular prayer life,
00:11:10
Ridley
maybe part of the problem is that you don't even recognize what God's voice sounds like speaking in your spirit. Bible reading, absolutely essential because you get to know the character of the God you're talking to, the counsel of people around you, godly people who can speak into your life and go, no Ridley, you don't have a voice, you don't need to be leading worship, you know, those kinds of things.
00:11:19
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:11:32
Ridley
And then even And I rank it way down to scale. I think sometimes we give too much weight. Even circumstances sometimes will will show us what God's hand is is revealing to us. So I think you've got to keep all those things with an open heart. You've got to keep all those things in your life so that there's always these voices saying, we see this in you and we affirm that this could be legitimate about you.
00:11:57
Ridley
Going back to my story in high school when God put a call on my life to to enter into ministry, I really didn't want to be obedient to it. But I talked to my two older sisters, my pastor, my Sunday school teacher, and everyone of those people were like, yeah, we see it in you. And at that point, I had to wake up and go, okay, well, maybe this is what God's wanting me to do.
00:12:16
Dan Sanchez
That's interesting that they, that you heard it, didn't want to do it, but then other people were like, yeah, this is probably a thing for you.
00:12:26
Ridley
Yeah, and it and it really did have to come back to but my oldest sister, or one one of my older sisters, because I have two of them said to me one day, you're just going to have to keep your heart open to this.
00:12:26
Dan Sanchez
I've seen it happen the other way too, though.
00:12:37
Ridley
Wow. You know, I i was i thought, well, I thought I'd always been open to God. I thought I'd always been. And she said, no, I mean, if you've already got your plans over here, then you're going to have to be intentional about leaving the door open that God may want you to do something entirely different.
00:12:52
Ridley
And that's when the voices that had already been in my life speaking to me began to get a little bit louder and a little bit more clear that God was up to something and maybe I should pay closer attention to it.
00:13:04
Dan Sanchez
to kind of get personal here. I know I got an email from you this last week and it was an email. It wasn't a one-to-one email. It was like an email that was probably sent to me and I don't know how many other guys actually could have been five.
00:13:15
Ridley
Right. Yeah.
00:13:17
Dan Sanchez
It could have been 50, I don't know. But it was essentially an invitation to be like, hey, like you, you, uh, your name's been tossed around as a person that could be qualified to be an elder. Maybe you should consider walking through the process to see if that could be, if that would be a good fit, essentially. I'm kind of paraphrasing the email.
00:13:37
Dan Sanchez
But I was like, Oh, okay.
00:13:37
Ridley
Uh-huh.
00:13:39
Dan Sanchez
It was a big enough ass that I was like, I can't, and my, my instant reaction was like, I don't know if it's a good time for that. cause I'm like, that's a, that's a serious commitment for your commitment.
00:13:49
Ridley
Yeah.
00:13:50
Dan Sanchez
And it's got to put in the time, diligence, prayer, everything.
00:13:50
Ridley
Uh-huh.
00:13:54
Dan Sanchez
So it's not a it's not a small decision at the same time It's it's it's an important thing that I'm like, there's there's very little and not that there's a greater Value and being an elder versus being a deacon or being a volunteer or any of those kinds of things But it's still a weighty responsibility.
00:13:59
Ridley
Right.
00:14:07
Ridley
Right. Right.
00:14:11
Dan Sanchez
Let's put it that way. So I didn't want to say No right away, even though I was inclined to say maybe another time I talked to Amy and I thought Amy was going to be like, no.
00:14:22
Dan Sanchez
Immediately. And then she was like, but she didn't, she was like, well, she probably pray about that. And I was like, Oh, okay. So I thought that was a be an instant. No.
00:14:31
Ridley
Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:32
Dan Sanchez
So I talked to another elder about it for, for some time and kind of waited and looked at it and talked about what it meant and what they did and all that kind of stuff. And I gave it some time, prayed about it.
00:14:44
Dan Sanchez
And I think I still landed on the. probably not right now because I need to focus. My main focus is, you know, I mean, is is on my family and discipling my kids and spending a lot of time with them on top of just, you know, normal work and the work that we spend a lot of time at church.
00:15:00
Ridley
Right.
00:15:02
Dan Sanchez
And then when soccer season's full blown, that's pretty busy.
00:15:03
Ridley
Mm hmm.
00:15:05
Dan Sanchez
So and we still got two littles. I think that's another big thing is I got two kids under five and that is a handful. but at the same time, uh, that elder I talked to stressed multiple times, like pray, like here we see what the Lord's saying. And I'm like, I don't know if I got a good sense from what the Lord was saying, other than leaning on the why of why I was feeling like it was a no from the beginning.
00:15:30
Dan Sanchez
So even having just gone through that, it it wasn't black or white. It wasn't super clear as far as like what the Lord's direction on it was.
00:15:36
Ridley
Mm.
00:15:40
Dan Sanchez
I may ah ah came to a decision, but it's still... I would say hard hard to discern. And I feel like that's not an uncommon situation.
00:15:49
Dan Sanchez
Like I've been through that part of my life a few times where I felt like I wanted to go this way or that way, or maybe I feel excited about a ah way to go. And I don't really know what the Lord's saying about it. And maybe either choice is good.
00:16:00
Dan Sanchez
And I should just go with my gut feeling of what would be more interesting or lucrative or a better fit.
00:16:02
Ridley
Mm.
00:16:09
Dan Sanchez
So how do you counsel those who aren't sure?
00:16:12
Ridley
So you brought up some very good points here to answer your question. Number one, how do you how do you counsel people who aren't sure? I would always say if if you don't feel clearly the direction from God, then don't make a move in a different direction.
00:16:27
Ridley
Just keep doing the good things you know to do. Keep pursuing what you're pursuing because here's the thing about God that we misunderstand. God's not trying to hide his will from us. He's trying to make it very, very clear for us. If he's calling you into ministry, he's not gonna play a hide and seek with that. He's gonna come and make it very clear on your heart. I think a second thing, going back to those voices that we were talking about in your head, those voices are never gonna be in disagreement with each other. When God is clearly calling you to something,
00:16:57
Ridley
your, your, his voice in your prayer life, his voice in the scripture, they're never going to contradict each other. voices in your, in your friends, again, it's got to be godly counsel, not just random friends on the street, but godly counsel is going to look at your life and they're going to be, they're going to be wise for you and they're going to affirm those things for you. I think the third thing that gets brought up here many times is when I'm uncomfortable with what I hear because it's making me move from where I am, the question you gotta ask yourself is, is it because I'm afraid of what might happen next? Because that's never a reason not to listen to God.
00:17:33
Ridley
Or is it because I am not letting go of the past things for whatever reason? I just want to hold on to those? That's never a reason not to listen to God. But if you don't have a very clear answer from God, just because you have been sincerely praying, you've been sincerely seeking His face, and you just can't find an answer, I would advise you, don't move. Don't move until God makes it clear for you, and it's clear enough that you're hearing that from all the other affirmations in your life.
00:18:02
Dan Sanchez
That's a good word. I have heard it. I've seen this play out a few times in a few different ways, working for ministries. I've worked for three different ministries now, like where I was like employed in a marketing sense.
00:18:12
Ridley
Mhm.
00:18:15
Dan Sanchez
Like I was, I was on the admin staff, not the ministry staff. but still ministries tend to govern themselves in the same way.
00:18:22
Ridley
Right.
00:18:22
Dan Sanchez
And I've seen some things like this almost, I don't know if it was manipulation, but actually I've used even that that that logic used in manipulative way before, and I want to talk through it.
00:18:34
Dan Sanchez
I've seen ministry leaders say like, hey, if God hasn't called you to go as in leave our ministry, then you're you're probably supposed to stay here. And to me, I'm like, so is Is that necessarily true? like Do you stay committed to a ministry even if you feel like you're going to go somewhere else?
00:18:51
Ridley
No, um don't think we should underestimate the God-given desires that we have. There, God places things in our heart because He wants us to use those things to to direct our lives, you know? For instance, I just read morning, Pastor, one of the largest churches in America, been there for couple of decades at least leading this congregation. i think I think he's the one who planted the church two or three decades ago. But he's leading this congregation and he has stepped down to become the president of the college associated with their with their church. And the president of the college is now going to become the pastor.
00:19:28
Ridley
And what happened wasn't that necessarily they felt God calling them to change, but they were sitting in a meeting one day and the pastor said, you know what, I feel like every day I wake up energized by visions and passions I have for that school. And the pastor said, well, it's interesting because I wake up every day thinking about how we can grow and continue to reach the the world through that church. And they started talking and say, well, we should swap places. <unk> we're We're both out of where we need to be.
00:19:56
Ridley
Again, I know it's a bizarre example, but I mean, I love music. I love listening to music. I come from a very musical family. Everybody in my family sings and or plays an instrument except for me.
00:20:09
Ridley
I love music, but I don't need to be leading worship. God didn't give me those talents, and he didn't give me a passion for that in that sense. So I think we need to be careful about writing off and dismissing the God-given passions and desires that are put inside of us once we become followers of Jesus Christ. He put them there for a reason.
00:20:31
Dan Sanchez
Do you think we should lift up every major decision to God and essentially steer like God, whatever you want me to do, rather than doing what's practical and waiting to hear from Him? I'm trying to get a sense for like even, I think Kyle said it the other day and it made me wonder, should probably head Kyle on for the podcast for this question.
00:20:51
Dan Sanchez
But he's essentially said like, I don't want I don't want to put in my kids heads to go and be this or do that.
00:20:54
Ridley
yeah
00:20:58
Dan Sanchez
I want them first to just seek the Lord. And if he puts on their hearts to be a doctor or a lawyer or whatever that is, and that that would be the right option. And part of me is like, well, like. Shouldn't we just, you know, strive for righteousness, preach the gospel, love others, and then also decide, you know, what we're best equipped to do and make a make a living out of it?
00:21:19
Ridley
I think that's great wisdom from from Pastor Kyle because here's the truth. Jesus said it first. He said, seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these other things will be added. And I think that was a very condensed way of Jesus saying, hey, if you'll pursue me with all your heart, you'll see all these things begin to fall into place. And they'll they'll do it in such a sweet and nice and natural way, it will be second nature for you to follow me.
00:21:44
Ridley
you will be affirmed in all those things. I think the problem is sadly for most, even most very devout Christians here in America, we teach our kids to seek a career, to seek a spouse, to seek a house with children. And none of those things are bad in themselves. But if you can teach your kids to love Jesus first, all those other things will fall in place at the right time, at the right place with the right people involved.
00:22:12
Ridley
And you know, to the to your question about seeking God on on decisions, you can paralyze yourself seeking God too much. You know, God, do I wake up on this side of the bed tomorrow? or that You know, what do I eat for breakfast? What do I wear for You know, I don't think God expects that level of, ah ah again, He's given you a brain. He's given you desires and passions. He's given you common sense, you know? But I think there's a place where we, as we pursue Christ and the things of His kingdom, we have a built-in radar that kind of tells us, hey, this is this one's above your pay grade. You need to go seek Jesus on this one.
00:22:49
Dan Sanchez
So we've been wandering around about calling for about 20 minutes now, and I'm going to move on to our second question. But it was fun to spend some time on this because I feel like, I don't know, it's a question that comes up in my mind, even as it comes up casually in conversation.
00:22:54
Ridley
Yeah, good.
00:23:01
Ridley
Right.
00:23:01
Dan Sanchez
It certainly comes up in the big areas of our life. One of the things I've noticed throughout scripture is that God creates leaders. He calls people out and has them do some miraculous things, through does some magraculous things through them. But I find that God, he pulls all kinds of people. Moses, for example, he like, dude, this guy was equipped. Like this guy, he pulled the right person. you know He grew up in the house, had all the knowledge of the Egyptian, what the Egyptians did, how they saw things, qualified, and then went and spent more years
00:23:32
Dan Sanchez
you know getting a double training on like how Hebrews lived essentially being a shepherd and living in the wilderness which you mentioned in the bible was like that was that was training for him what would come in handy you know later on and they're wandering through the wilderness but sometimes god like pulls like the least qualified person out of the group and somewhere in between how do you think god chooses leaders
00:23:57
Ridley
So I'm gonna take the easy way out on that one and say, who can read the mind of God and understand it? you know But I do know that he intentionally does two things. Number one, he uses the foolish things of this world to shame the wise.
00:24:10
Ridley
And number two, he doesn't operate the way we would operate so that we can't try to move ahead of him by being able to pre-determine what he's going to do, you know? If God always looked for the graduate student who was a CEO, who came from a wealthy family, was highly educated to do all the leadership, then we would never give the poor kid that was coming from a foster home a chance to make a difference in this world.
00:24:38
Ridley
You talked about Moses. Moses is a great example of different stages of his life. If you were to chop his life into segments and hand him on a piece of paper to somebody and read in the description, you would get yeses and nos about his future, you know.
00:24:50
Dan Sanchez
True.
00:24:51
Ridley
If you handed a piece of paper to somebody that said, hey, this kid's been thrown into the river by his mom and dad in a basket, what do you think his future is going to be? Nobody would ever predict he'd lead the nation of Israel. But then just, you know, seven, eight years later, he's in the House of Pharaoh being raised by the world's greatest education system. Now he's got a better shot. Oh, wait, he commits murder, gets thrown into the wilderness in fear. Now he's back in that loser category. But God, God, man, he just never operates the way we think he's going to operate because that leaves him in charge and not us.
00:25:26
Dan Sanchez
I'm certainly thankful for those who have essentially don't deserve to be in leadership or are still leading and leading well. And then I'm thankful for those who are, you know, well qualified and do a ah lot of good around the world like the Green family specifically from Hobby Lobby.
00:25:35
Ridley
Mm hmm.
00:25:44
Ridley
Mm hmm.
00:25:44
Dan Sanchez
They do a lot of fantastic gospel work around the world and use their wealth and really
00:25:46
Ridley
Yes. Yes.
00:25:50
Dan Sanchez
really generous ways so there's all kinds of ways that we can get involved it makes me kind of happy knowing that because i'm like oh god god can use me in my best and my worst
00:25:59
Ridley
Mm hmm. That's right.
00:26:05
Dan Sanchez
I've noticed that, though, reading stories like Moses, I don't know about you, but when I read stories, I tend to put myself in, you know, the main character's point of view, right?
00:26:13
Ridley
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:26:15
Dan Sanchez
And I wonder about this sometimes. I think as a millennial, a lot of millennials are raised with like this, you're going to do great things.
00:26:20
Ridley
Mm-hmm.
00:26:21
Dan Sanchez
You're going to be the next Gandhi. You're going to be the next, you know, big megachurch pastor.
00:26:23
Ridley
Mm-hmm.
00:26:26
Dan Sanchez
Like, I don't know what it is, but millennials got like a heavy dose of like greatness.
00:26:27
Ridley
Right.
00:26:31
Dan Sanchez
Which to some degree is good. And then to some degree, I wonder if it's bad.
00:26:35
Ridley
Mm-hmm.
00:26:37
Dan Sanchez
Because I'm like, shouldn't I just be satisfied with doing the best with what god God's given me, raising a strong family, being diligent in my local church, reaching the community, maybe giving some to where I can, where where're God leads me to give admissions, and then just being okay with being forgotten.
00:26:56
Ridley
me
00:26:57
Dan Sanchez
Because I will be.
00:26:58
Ridley
yeah ye
00:27:00
Dan Sanchez
Or should i is it good that some of us have this like complex where we are the main character and wanna go and start ministries?
00:27:00
Ridley
i think I think it is never bad to teach your children that they can and will be successful or be a winner or whatever term you want to use.
00:27:15
Ridley
I think where we get it wrong is teaching them what that means. Being a winner doesn't mean you have to be the champion. Being a winner doesn't mean you're going to be the pastor of a 15,000 mega church. It could mean that you're going to be the pastor of a 50 member church in the country that is successful in winning people to Christ and wherever you are. Doesn't mean you have to be the CEO of a big corporation. It might mean that you're the best salesman at the corporation in your hometown where you work, you know. It might not mean that you always come out on top. It might mean that you're a quick learner when you go through suffering.
00:27:49
Ridley
which makes you a better person and more appreciative and compassionate towards people around you. So to me, the problem isn't with encouraging people to believe they can be winners. It is, what is that measure? How do you measure what it means, what it looks like to be a winner? Jesus was very clear, my measurements don't look like yours because for me, if you want to be first, you mean learn to be last. If you want to be a master, you learn to be a servant.
00:28:13
Ridley
And ever since he flipped the world upside down, I think Christians have gone back to trying to flip it back the other way with the way we instruct our kids and the way we even pick out our heroes and our idols. And I think that's think that's part of the area where we start to struggle because we've given these false impressions to our children.
00:28:32
Dan Sanchez
Yet even when we want to do big things, and I think a lot of people want to start things and do do great things, I remember back to when Moses was arguing with God, right? He's saying he couldn't do it or talking about how he couldn't because he had a stutter or this or that.
00:28:51
Ridley
Mm hmm.
00:28:52
Dan Sanchez
It's funny. i I remember reading it and hearing like god god got angry got frustrated with them Over the things i'm like i'm sure god still gets a little frustrated with us today Um one of my favorite campaigns marketing campaigns I did not do this campaign, but I wish I had because it was really good.
00:29:01
Ridley
Oh, Oh, I'm sure.
00:29:09
Dan Sanchez
It was for a short-term missions organization and it was uh It was written in the form of like a pitch that you would give in person, but it was, you would say something along the lines of like, the reason why people don't go overseas is because their butts are too big.
00:29:27
Dan Sanchez
Just as you took a big swig of water, you almost lost it there.
00:29:28
Ridley
Yeah, I wasn't expecting that one.
00:29:32
Dan Sanchez
I wanna go overseas and help Jesus, but I don't have enough money. I wanna go overseas and preach the gospel, but I'm too young, you know?
00:29:42
Ridley
Yeah.
00:29:42
Dan Sanchez
their their butts are too big
00:29:43
Ridley
Bets are too big. I like that.
00:29:46
Dan Sanchez
And it's a really fun way to do it in person because everybody smiles and they get over the fact that this is actually a sales pitch.
00:29:51
Ridley
Right.
00:29:51
Dan Sanchez
and Not a bad one because you're you're calling to go overseas. But i've it's always stuck with me. The the butts are too big. So I wanted to ask you, as you as you talk to a lot of people in our congregation, as they talk about ministry, or they talk about even things that they want to do and so and serve in serving. Like, what are some some of the biggest butts you run into?
00:30:17
Ridley
I mean, you you get all the standard things of this is just too too busy a season of life for our family or I'm just too involved in other areas. I'm not gifted in that area. I don't have talent in that area. Those are the ones that I hear most often.
00:30:35
Ridley
Quite frankly, I think what most of it comes down to, even though it's not often spoken, is that people live in fear of their past. just don't believe that it can be overcome and be used by God to do something different.
00:30:50
Dan Sanchez
Tell me more. How am I?
00:30:52
Dan Sanchez
Can't leave it at that. Give me more details.
00:30:52
Ridley
Well, I mean, you know, again, we're
00:30:57
Ridley
really him and hitting on the story of Moses today, but that was Moses' thing. I'm a stutterer. I killed somebody. I'm just a shepherd. there's no god you There's no way you could overcome those things and use me to do what you're talking about. Well, quite often as a pastor, you have a conversation with somebody. You hear very similar language. Well, well pastor, I'm just a housewife. I can't teach a Sunday school class. Or, you know, pastor, I've just been a Christian three or four years. I couldn't go on a mission trip.
00:31:25
Ridley
you know yep Not to steal your your friend's campaign, but the butts are there. And we can all find them very easily, but it comes back to this question, do I really believe God is capable of using me? Not because not because of what who I am, but because he may not be strong enough to handle it.
00:31:45
Dan Sanchez
Well, it's interesting. I mean, I literally just the beginning of this podcast talked about why I didn't want to go down the path of being in the consideration because I felt like just things were too busy.
00:31:55
Dan Sanchez
So it was the classic one, but then you were like, yeah, no, yeah, okay. But then I'm like, yeah but it's the most common, but, so I'm like, well, I'm like, part of me is like, heard that.
00:32:03
Ridley
It is, it really is.
00:32:06
Dan Sanchez
I'm like, well, it's literally what I just said. So what am I going to do?
00:32:09
Ridley
you know
00:32:11
Dan Sanchez
Do I need to get back on the back on the horse and just ah go through the process and see how it plays out?
00:32:11
Ridley
you know
00:32:16
Ridley
I'm telling you telling you to go back to your prayer closet, Dan. That's what I'm telling you to do.
00:32:21
Dan Sanchez
You need to go pray some more. You might want to add some fasting to it.
00:32:25
Ridley
Listen, if if being called by God was simple and easy, we we'd all do it. we would all do it. But most of the time it is it's it's called a calling. That's why it's given that name because he is calling us away from something, most likely something comfortable, something normal, something routine. He's calling us into a place where we are going to be stretched and challenged and changed.
00:32:55
Ridley
Despite all the training that Moses had, nobody in the history of the world had ever led two million people through the wilderness. He was about to be challenged in ways nobody ever had, and he wasn't stupid. He knew that. He recognized what God was calling him to, and that's why he put up all of the protest protests he could to fight against it.
00:33:13
Dan Sanchez
still leaves me hanging. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
00:33:21
Ridley
Maybe our podcast isn't long enough today.
00:33:24
Dan Sanchez
Yeah, I'm like, or maybe maybe we just end there. But still, the way you laid a pretty clear path of one be in the word because if you don't know what god's word says then you can't know what god's voice sounds like because he'll never contradict his word because you know who else's voice kind of shows up in our head sometimes is the devils or our flesh or the world and if you don't know how to discern the voice because you're not in the word enough that's a problem
00:33:37
Ridley
Right. Right. Right. And let's be honest.
00:33:50
Ridley
Right. And you have to be honest because Satan from the very beginning in the book of Job is called the adversary. He's, he's pictured as the accuser of the brothers. So his primary tactic is to make us feel awful about who we are. And so many times to your point,
00:34:08
Ridley
That's the voice we're hearing is Satan whispering in our ear going, man, you didn't even finish high school. How do you think you could be used by anybody? you know Or you declared bankruptcy years ago, or you had sex before you're married. you're You're worthless. And God's going, I can use all that. I can use every bit of it. If you'll just turn it over to me, I can take it and use it, just like I used a shepherd's staff in the middle of the wilderness.
00:34:29
Dan Sanchez
What else did you say? You said to stay close to the word, to pray, and to keep strong counsel around you to help clarify those voices that you hear in your head.
00:34:37
Ridley
Godly counsel in your life. Yeah.
00:34:42
Dan Sanchez
It's almost like a safety net in case the first two doesn't make you confident in what you're hearing.
00:34:47
Ridley
Yeah.
00:34:47
Dan Sanchez
Other people can come and help you discern. And there's been, there's even been times somebody's told me they felt like the Lord saying one thing and I'm like, you need to come over for dinner. We need to talk about that.
00:34:57
Ridley
That's good.
00:34:58
Dan Sanchez
That's happened a few times.
00:34:58
Ridley
Yeah, and sadly, there's too many Christians who are afraid to speak that kind of truth to people. So make sure you you pick out people who are brave enough to speak truth to you even when it's uncomfortable. We even see models of this in the New Testament with Paul.
00:35:07
Dan Sanchez
Yeah, I'm.
00:35:11
Ridley
Paul and his missionary journey. He had guys around who were willing to look at him and say, no, you don't need to go into that town. You stay here. We'll go in for you, you know? So.
00:35:20
Dan Sanchez
Yeah, I'm just hoping I don't become the person that's always like, did you really hear Lord? I don't want to be that guy either. I want to be as encouraging as I am like pointing pointing things out to you.
00:35:27
Ridley
Right. I understand. I understand. and
00:35:33
Dan Sanchez
Well, Ridley, thank you so much for taking some time to me to talk through Moses, Exodus, and the and essentially the theology around calling.
00:35:41
Ridley
Yeah.
00:35:42
Dan Sanchez
Hopefully it's been helpful to our congregation.