Transcript
Speaker: Welcome back to Fresh Off The Bluff. I'm Janice and I'm here with my best friend, Suzanne. You know what's funny? We grew up Chinese Canadian in the same small town, but figuring out our futures looked pretty different in our household. Suzanne's dad had very specific requirements and expectations about what classes she had to take, Versus in my household, it was more work hard than play hard.
Speaker: So I want to take a step back and go back to Squamish to talk about things that we thought we could be versus things that our family hoped that we would be and to all the other stuff that we didn't even know how to ask for help with.
Speaker: So let's start with you, Janice. What did you want to be when you were growing up? I actually did want to be a singer and actor growing up, but I also wanted to be like other things. I want to be a chef. I want to cook too because my whole family cooks. So I love being in the kitchen. I mean, I still cook every day, but in high school, when we took What was that exam called or that test called, you know, to figure out what career path you want to take? Do you remember taking that? Yeah, you would take it in. oh career and personal planning.
Speaker: yes Yeah. yeah that's Anyway, it's sorry it's an exam or a test. You know, you fill out these questionnaires of what you would like or what you qualify for. And then the system will give you, you know, a bunch of titles. of what you could possibly be. And I was really excited because I got director of photography and i was like, Oh, that's so cool. I tried to take all these electives that would help build my career to going there. So at one point, I wanted to go to Emily Carr. So I took industrial design, I took photography, I took maybe like other courses that you know, basic
Speaker: courses like math and English or whatever that I need to apply for it. But then I realized was not good in industrial design. So I was like, I think I got like a C in that class. I was like, maybe this is not for me.
Speaker: ah You tried, though. You tried. I tried. I tried. So then was like, no, what should I do instead? And then i don't know. I'm kicking myself in the butt a little bit, but I guess it was like the easier route. My sister had looked at my grade 12 curriculum of courses I need to take. And she signed me up for all business classes.
Speaker: So she's like, take it, you're gonna need it And it's, you know, it's a good life skill. So I agreed with that. So I took all the accounting classes, i took whatever business classes that was available. And the next thing you know, I'm in University of the School of Business.
Speaker: Not what exactly what I wanted to do, but. And, you know, I think that in that time when we graduated, when I came and saw all the Asian aunties in the city and everyone was like, oh, my so-and-so so is studying business.
Speaker: Oh, my so-and-so is studying business. So I think it was a big boom of like, if you were Asian, almost did the requirement for you was to study business. My sister studied business and it was almost like an expectation. I think on paper, me and my husband are the the typical Asians. We went, I went to business school. He went to school for statistics and You know, everyone would be like, oh, yeah, statistics. You know, that's good. Oh, yeah. yeah
Speaker: You know, ah like live on paper, you know, but he was he did actually really love math. Yeah, he's like a math nerd. So he he does enjoy that. But growing up, I really liked being in that performing era. But I was so shy.
Speaker: I was so shy because one, I was the only Asian in my class. So I was just too scared to speak up. I also didn't have any courage or have anybody influencing me, encouraging me to be like you should do it. You can do it kind of thing. In high school, like once we went to grade eight, we had to choose either band class or or drama class. And I was like, nope, not doing drama.
Speaker: So I went to band class instead. I'm like, I like instruments. I'm like, am I good at it? know. I'm right. Okay. What was your instrument? I played the flute. Okay. I played the saxophone and I destroyed my parents. Did you?
Speaker: You did. didn't you played the saxophone. Yep. I played the alto sax. I was pushed to all academic classes that were, for example, biology, physics, English courses.
Speaker: I didn't really have the opportunity to look at the courses and and feel what I wanted. ah versus what my parents or my father specifically thought that I should take. I was only able to choose one extracurricular, one class that was really my choice, which was psychology. And so when I did my test that told me what I would be good at, the two top ones that i remember technology.
Speaker: teacher and something to do with counseling psychology. I thought, wow, that's really cool. I never thought about psychology as being an option for me. And I always grew up thinking I would be a teacher. So I decided to go to Capilano and I studied psychology. I studied psychology and I was close to finishing my credits. At the time, it was an associate's degree in psychology. And I said, no, I can't do it anymore. I was so devastated because there was this huge pressure. You know, when you start something, you need to finish it. And I still very much believe in that. So after I gave up on finishing my psychology... I decided that I would apply to the early childhood education degree program at Capilano. And it was amazing.
Speaker: I loved it. You know how when you do something and you're like going through the motions, oh, I'm not really sure. i guess I'll do it because I'm doing it already. And then all of a sudden you actually do something that you actually love and you're like, oh, shit, this is what it's supposed to feel like. you Right.
Speaker: I'm supposed to feel happy and engaged and wanting to do this. i didn't feel any cost to do this. None of that, hey? In business, I think at most, maybe the most I felt a glimpse of it was marketing.
Speaker: And I felt at one point, maybe I want to go into marketing. And I did try for it. And I got an advanced diploma, which is like a minor in in marketing. So I got my business degree and I did like a minor in marketing. But I didn't actually go into marketing at all, which was really disappointing for me because I i was trying to figure out like, how do I get into becoming like a marketing manager. And I don't know, it just didn't happen for me. And I just, I went into operations instead. We can talk about that later, but back to you.
Speaker: deb The pressure of studying, you know, if someone asked my my parents, what are your daughters studying? And when they came to me, it was, oh, she's studying psychology, but now she's studying early childhood education. and then it's always goes, it just goes jump straight to the the future. Oh, she's going to be a teacher. Yeah.
Speaker: But I never really said that 100% wanted to be a teacher. just had the idea that maybe it could bring me to the path of being a teacher. didn't feel like I'd reached my full potential in terms of school because I got married. I don't think you yet. Yeah. I got married and I had children.
Speaker: Even though that was almost the idea, the dream, right, when we were young to get married and have kids, I felt like almost a failure. Like I didn't finish.
Speaker: And going back right now as ah as a mother and a wife and ah household to take care of, it just feels so daunting to now trying to rewire my brain into school mode. And I found my papers from when I was doing the degree program and I was reading i was like, shit, I was smart. Yeah.
Speaker: You still are. is this so interesting when you go back and you just see like your previous work? You're like, wow, you feel like, who is that person? 100%. I mean, life doesn't always go the way that you had planned. And when it goes the way that you had planned or thought it would go, you're like, oh, shit, this is not what I thought it would be. Like, this is what it actually is. Exactly. how about you? Are you exactly where you imagine that you would be?
Speaker: Of course not yeah high five
Speaker: not. High five. I would love to know which Asian would be like, this is exactly what I want to do. I feel like there's there are some for me, like I mentioned, i I guess one thing I am doing right now is I am fulfilling a little bit of like a childhood dream by doing acting. I started to take classes and then got myself an agent. What I really wanted to do was just get some experience being on set. So I got to do that a little bit. And then was lucky enough to be able to book myself for some short films in the last two years, which I'm really excited about. i'm really proud of. And it's it's so far from what i thought I could be doing. I was able to do a short film in Cantonese and I got to work with actors that were also from Hong Kong as well, who've like moved to Canada. So that was really fun. I think growing up, I thought, oh, I need to either be a doctor or a lawyer or i don't know, an accountant of some sort. I don't know why i want to do that. it just It just seemed like, oh, that's where the money is. That's what it felt like.
Speaker: My parents never actually gave me any pressure because they weren't, you know, they didn't go through a lot of education either. So they didn't know like what the standard was or how to prepare for me to get there. They just thought, go to school, work hard, and find a job that will make a lot of money. I went through a whole obstacle of different career choices of being being in film, like ah a photographer, or like obviously being in business, and then being in marketing. And then at one point, what did I want to do? I want to be like a chef. i was like, oh, maybe I should take like a chef program, like a cooking program. But I just didn't have... the resources and I didn't have the encouragement to do it. You know, I had to kind of do it all on my own. And given that I didn't have a lot of money as like a teenager, where do I even start to support myself to do these courses? That was the only way I could really support myself was when I
Speaker: could work. So I started working when I was 15. The moment I got my SIM card, Wen got a job. Got my first job at McDonald's. yeah And i stayed there for, i think, a few months. And then I quit because the hours were just not great. And then I worked into a movie theater. That was great because I was closer to home.
Speaker: and I could balance out my hours a bit better. And you know, who doesn't love free popcorn and free movies? I worked at a golf course, I did banquets and stuff. And then I thought, Oh, maybe I'll go into like hospitality. After our our both of our weddings, I wanted to go into the wedding industry. I just had all these ideas, but it was just never sustainable. I'm like, let's try to find something that I actually want to do and that I love. but Going back, I didn't have a lot of pressure from my parents. And I guess I'm thankful for that. But at the same time, I do wish someone pushed me a bit more, talk to me and guide me a bit more. Sure, we had a guidance counselor in high school, but I never went to them to talk about it It's just, it was more to talk about what classes I want to take with my kids now just to be more mindful of what classes they're going to attend and just actually talk about
Speaker: future planning with them, like introducing what could be the future for them. I was just never introduced those ideas. It was just work hard, make money and provide for your family.
Speaker: But again, no one told me what work being a working mom would actually mean what is that taking away and seeing how hard my mom worked my mom literally did do that she would go to work come home at five o'clock have a three course no maybe four course meal set ready within an hour i just like so props to all the like chinese moms out there because who could do that fan tong yuk and choy all on the table all the all your proteins all a healthy balanced meal freshly cooked too freshly cooked too fucking steamed fish wherever steamed chicken soup with rice everything all there for you and i have like leftovers to eat the next day she was just an all-star and she'd be the last one to come home and the first one to leave in the morning every day that's all she did but here i am complaining that she didn't give me attention
Speaker: ah I think that that is something that runs so deep in our generation with Asian parents, where it was so – the work ethic was so strong and is so strong. yeah I mean, just like yours, both of my parents worked all the time, like insane hours. My mom was – a completely different entity than I am. Like she she did babysitting for everybody in her neighborhood. She was also a seamstress. And then i learned as a parent that my dad would be working overtime hours all the time. And then sometimes he would go on long trips away to be in a completely different province at their chemistry lab to try to like fix stuff for them. and then, you know, he would come back here and have to go straight back to work. And it was just like,
Speaker: nonstop for them. So who has to pick up the slack? Mom had to pick up the slack, you know, and she still had three children to take care of and two different jobs that she had to do. And then on the side, she always sew like um tights and t-shirts and sweatshirts. And she had like her own little line of clothes, really. And everyone would come to her house and on our driveway to get May's tights.
Speaker: It was like a core memory of mine. Come and get May's tights. You know, come to our driveway. That's so cute. Rack of clothes, just like hanging in all May's clothes. But yeah, even she says to this day, I don't understand how I had so much time to do all this stuff.
Speaker: I don't understand. And I didn't understand either. And I was thinking to myself, wait a second. Now, as an adult, I do understand. Because I had two older siblings that took care of me.
Speaker: i had... The space and capacity to be outside whenever I wanted, wherever I wanted, as long as I came back for dinner. I had no limit or control over what I watched or when I watched TV.
Speaker: and just watched whenever I want. That's true. We watched, our generation probably watched a lot of TV because our parents were just so busy working and they just didn't have the ability. They didn't have the time to basically...
Speaker: be with us and nurture us but at the same time they didn't know how even if they did have the time like let's think about it if they really even did have the time to like converse with us and like play with us or to like even educate us they didn't know other than to educate us on the things that they knew like my parents all my parents taught me to do was cook because that was the only thing they knew how to do so that's why I know how to cook Today, but otherwise in any other field or any other industry, they didn't know how to talk to me about that because they had no idea. 100%. And I think a lot of the times that I came back to them. with an issue that I had when I was young, or like I came back to them and said, oh, I remember when we were living in Squamish that this happened, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then they would be like, what? Why didn't you tell me?
Speaker: And I looked at them almost in shock and awe thinking to myself, I didn't know I could talk to you. yeah yeah I mean, if they didn't set up that core foundational relationship to be able to be like, hey, open door policy, come talk to me whenever you want about anything you want. I think just makes me think of one thing.
Speaker: You know, when we when we were growing up and you watch like American shows, American family shows, and there's always that family dynamic. And then it's always the parents saying, OK, whose turn is it to go talk to your child?
Speaker: So they run upstairs they're like I don't want to talk to anyone, slams the door. And then has to be like the mom or their dad to go talk to them. And then they have this father-son scene or mother-daughter scene and they're talking and then they reconcile and then they they talk it over and talk about their feelings. i was like... ah does smile That's not happened. No, no. You know what I got? I got yelled at in my bed, but right before sleeping, I was tucked into my sheets and my dad was so mad. I have no idea what I did to this day. But all I can remember was lying down in my bed with the sheets up to here and crying so hard and hearing him yell at me with my mom in the door.
Speaker: She wasn't saying anything about my dad was like yelling at me so loud. I cried so hard that I vomited all over myself. That's what I got. yes oh Yep. I almost, I was about to say same, except no, I didn't vomit. But yeah, I would hide.
Speaker: Like I would get in trouble. i would get yelled at for crying. And my mom would would say like, they ham a year or may say yeah yep i was like, oh wow. So then I, that, that really hit home. I can only shed tears if you if If you pass away, yeah. You're not. I'm like, oh, okay. I'm like, I see how that is. I'm like, why is it like that? And even like growing up in school, I guess I feel bad about it now, but I was so ignorant about being a Canadian, being living in Canada and then going back to um like China sometimes and and and thinking,
Speaker: Thinking I'm above. I did. At one point, you you feel like of a superior. But like when I'm back in Canada, I'm just like, no, I'm just a Chinese girl in Canada. But no, if I'm in China, then I'm like, no, I'm a Canadian girl. And then i remember I feel bad about it now. Now that I like i so I think that's where, you know, the whole limbo of identity kind of happens. And i remember thinking that, oh, our education here is probably better because that's why everybody comes here.
Speaker: that was just my automatic thought. And then I remember my mom being like really upset. And she didn't again, but she didn't know how to like argue with me about it or debate it with me about like, you you don't know what the what the education system is back in China. I'm like, tell me about it.
Speaker: But then she would get so angry. She wouldn't even know how to like debate about it with me. But at that point, you know, I was at a certain age where I knew how to debate. I knew how to negotiate and and learn how to, you know, take in for information. But I think that was me, though. I was always willing to learn. I was always willing to. to be open-minded given that you know i was like cbc i have to be open-minded i have to be you know willing to adapt to new changes so of course i was willing to hear like what my mom had to say i mean i still had my opinions that maybe like you know canadian upbringing like school programs were probably better i had the same conversation with my father all the time through elementary, through middle school, through high school. He would look at my work and say, you're only learning that?
Speaker: I learned that in kindergarten. And I was like, oh shit, like I'm in grade five. What am I supposed to say It's not me. I'm not doing the curriculum planning for my class. You know what I mean? i remember him being or seemingly feeling so offended by what we were learning.
Speaker: Because it was pitiful. but You know, it wasn't anything close to what they had learned in the time that they had learned it. And the yeah and the school pressures that they had felt.
Speaker: Like, he tells he told me about the school system, and i was like, damn, that's rough. yeah you know Where did he go to school? He was born and raised in Hong Kong, but I can't remember... Okay, yeah, that's what I mean. Like my parents grew up, well, my mom grew up in like Guangzhou. So and I think she i think she finished high school and then that was it.
Speaker: But yeah she never talked about what her classes were, but I do want to interview her one day. i just knew that she was like a hardworking parent and to be able to come to Canada and not know a lick of English and just have to get by. if we had to do that, like, the I mean, you kind of did that. You, you went to Spain for like, yeah, but I had a, I had the basic knowledge of Spanish.
Speaker: I couldn't converse. I could get by. yeah yeah We're also in a different generation because we have so many resources. We have so many translator apps that we could get. We have so many like ways to learn versus back in. you just You have to ask that person, how do you say this? You have to find someone that speaks somewhat of the same language as you to even and figure out how to navigate wherever you are.
Speaker: ah Definitely our parents are a different breed. Yeah, I feel bad about it now. of like i was like, again, if I was a child, you know, i didn't, I literally did not know any better. So if you could go back and think about what you wanted to grow up to be, what education path would you change differently? Okay, the very first thing that I would do differently completely is i i think that I never learned how to seek help. I never learned to look for help or find somebody who could help me. The first thing that I would do is seek out help from counselor.
Speaker: to talk about what I would be good at, um give a general idea of my interests. And then once in college, university, the person who would help you organize your classes, I would definitely go to that person if I didn't have a a good idea of what I wanted to study. would go straight to that person and I would have the conversation of saying, This is what I'm interested in What credits do I need? What courses do I need? What's the direction I could go? a general idea of like a branch of what I could possibly do with what I'm studying for. And the second, I would have 100% bypassed psychology altogether. I definitely would not have wasted all those years and all that money doing it.
Speaker: yeah If I had known, um i wouldn't have been interested in it. I wouldn't have done it at all. It was such a waste. And I have so much guilt about that. i would go straight into ECE and then straight into teaching because I think that that would have been, you know, a solid route to take. Something that I would be really interested in doing.
Speaker: But yeah, those are probably the two things I would have or could have done differently. What about you? I think I wish I maybe I should have gone into theater school. in drama school.
Speaker: But at the same time, i'm very thankful of taking the business classes and be able to kick off my career pretty early on. I'm trying to i'm trying to not have regrets now, given that you know after having kids and it's like post-COVID time and think our lives have changed so much that we really don't know where our career is going to stand. So I think that was also the point of this podcast was to try something different. And that's why I'm trying to fulfill so kind of my wish list things while still being able to provide for my family, because i don't think my work right now is going to keep me mentally sane for the rest of my life.
Speaker: So I might as well do something that i enjoy. i enjoy this. I enjoy being on set and that will balance it out. and And that will give me time to like be with my family. So it's never too late to do what you love, but try to identify it earlier. And yes, seek help to, you know, get get the courage to do it. You know, don't be scared. If you didn't get courage before, be surrounded by people that have the same dreams of you, because you're never going to get encouraged by being surrounded by people who don't have the same dreams of you. I think when I first started doing acting, people were either very supportive or some people were like, oh, that's really hard. I'm like opposed to
Speaker: Being a surgeon opposed to being a mom, opposed to being an athlete. Like what's not hard, right? I think also, would you have ever ever considered taking a gap year? Because i hear these days, so many students are taking gap years. And I remember...
Speaker: in the in in the time when we graduated from school, if I heard someone say, oh, I think I'm going to take a gap year. I was like, you're to take a gap year? Like, you're not going to go straight to school? Like, what are you? so lazy. But now I'm thinking about it and I'm like, damn, a gap year is a good idea. you know, you find yourself a little bit.
Speaker: I mean, I took a six month delay, but that was because i was traveling with my family. But yeah, I think a gap year is very important just to like figure out what you want to do. Even just like I think that's what most kids do nowadays again. But if they're if they have the time and they have the money to do it, to go travel, to go identify, to experience like other things and just try things out. I mean, why not?
Speaker: That's what we're trying to do for our kids, right? Give them the most like flexibility and resources so that they can figure it out. But the topic of kids is going to have to come in the next episode. Another time. Yeah. yeah Okay. So next episode, we have something pretty exciting happening. We're to have somebody joining us. Our first guest appearance.
Speaker: Yes, yes. Well, we're kind of forcing her into it. So we'll go easy. It's fine. It's fine. It'll be fine. So stay tuned for the next episode. Thank you so much, everyone, for listening. And we hope you have a lovely day. Fresh off the bluff out.
Speaker: but
