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E159: Frederick Valentich
4.7k Plays3 years ago
A UFO enthusiast and pilot-in-training went on a short flight to meet some friends on October 21st, 1978, when he radioed to say that an unidentified object was hovering above and around his own aircraft. Then the radio communication went silent. Was the pilot abducted? Did he fake his own death? Or was he the victim of a tragic accident?
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Transcript
Introduction to Ruler Myth and Folklore
00:00:00
Speaker
Last month on Patreon, Allison did the first of a series called Ruler Myth. She talked about several incidents where time travel was a likely possibility to explain away some pretty weird events. You all know that we've talked about a lot of odd theories on this show.
00:00:14
Speaker
We've discussed Baba Yaga, who, according to worldhistory.org, is a witch from Slavic folklore who lives in a magical hut in the forest and either helps, imprisons, or eats, though she encounters. She is among the most famous figures in Slavic folktales and has found a following in the present day among those who see her embodying female empowerment and independence.
Mystical Phenomena: Ball Lightning and Yeti
00:00:36
Speaker
We talked about ball lightning in that very same episode, which according to Britannica is a rare phenomenon in the form of a luminous sphere that is generally several centimeters in diameter. It usually occurs near the ground during thunderstorms and close association with cloud to ground lightning.
00:00:52
Speaker
It may be red, orange, yellow, white, or blue in color and is often accompanied by a hissing sound and a distinct odor. It normally lasts only a few seconds, usually moving about and then vanishing suddenly, either silently or explosively. Ball lightning has been reported to cause damage by burning or even melting.
00:01:10
Speaker
We've discussed the Yeti in several of our cases. The Yeti, according to Live Science, was once better known as the Abominable Snowman, not the one that's on Rudolph. It is a mysterious creature said to live in the mountains of Asia. It sometimes leaves tracks in the snow, but it's also said to dwell below the Himalayan snow line. Despite dozens of expeditions into remote mountainous regions of Russia, China, and Nepal, the existence of the Yeti remains unproven.
Mysterious Disappearances: Beaumont Children and Cindy James
00:01:34
Speaker
In our coverage of the Beaumont children, we talked about the horrifying theory of a collapsing sand dune. While beautiful, they are natural death traps in some cases. If you don't watch your step, you could be buried alive. According to the United States Geological Survey, sand dunes are created when wind deposits sand on top of one another until a small mound is formed. Once the first mound forms, sand piles up, the windward side more and more until the edge of the dune collapses under its weight. The collapse begins when the angle of the dune becomes too large to support the weight.
00:02:04
Speaker
In our coverage of Cindy James, we talked about how one could possibly stalk and hurt oneself. Someone was attacking Cindy James, but that someone might have been her in this strange turn of events.
Bermuda Triangle Mysteries
00:02:17
Speaker
We've talked about ships disappearing into the Bermuda Triangle, and we know the Bermuda Triangle is a mythological section of the Atlantic Ocean, roughly bounded by Miami, Bermuda, and Puerto Rico, where dozens of ships and airplanes have disappeared.
00:02:29
Speaker
Unexplained circumstances surround many of those accidents, including one where a pilot became disoriented while flying over the sea and the plane was never found. Other boats and planes have seemingly vanished from the area, even in good weather, without ever sending distress messages.
Frederick Valentich's UFO Encounter
00:02:46
Speaker
One thing we haven't really talked a lot about, though, are UFOs and aliens.
00:02:50
Speaker
What was once the thing of fantasy could actually be real just recently, actually as recently as May of this year, the US government announced that UFOs are real and they pose a serious threat to our country. In today's case, a seasoned ish, air pilot goes missing under odd circumstances after reporting a UFO. Was it extraterrestrial beings that are responsible for his disappearance?
00:03:15
Speaker
Or was it something else? This is the case of Frederick Volantiche.
Podcast Introduction: Solving Cold Cases
00:03:55
Speaker
Welcome to coffee and cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families.
00:04:15
Speaker
With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because, as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping to keep their memories alive.
Pilot Aspirations and Challenges
00:04:28
Speaker
So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week. First of all, Frederick is French, and I've listened to his name pronunciation about a dozen times, Sleuth Hounds, but
00:04:41
Speaker
it still could be wrong. So we're just going to avoid saying his last name and we're just going to call him Frederick. Frederick. Okay. Yeah. And I actually think he went by Fred, but he's going to be Frederick. Okay. Frederick does sound much more sophisticated. Yeah. Agreed. That's like Anthony. A lot of people ask if he goes by Tony and I'm like, no, it's Anthony. Right. Tony. Get it right people. Yeah.
00:05:10
Speaker
So, obviously I do not know a lot about becoming a pilot. That's just, you know, was never a career choice that I...
00:05:20
Speaker
could see yourself doing. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't really know a lot. All I know is what I can deduce from one of my Facebook friends who has a son who I believe is trying to become a commercial pilot. And from what I gather on her social media, it is not an easy process. And obviously we thank God that it isn't an easy process. We wouldn't want like me flying your
00:05:47
Speaker
across ocean flight to Cancun or something. We wouldn't want that. Right.
00:05:55
Speaker
Obviously you have guessed from the introduction that today's case revolves around someone who is wanting to become a pilot. Right. And so I Googled the requirements to become a pilot and they're actually pretty intense, especially for commercial pilots. They have to log hundreds and hundreds of flying hours before they are actually able to become a pilot. I wasn't
00:06:24
Speaker
I was even less familiar with the route that Frederick wanted to take. So he didn't just want to be a commercial pilot. He also wanted to be in the Royal Australian Air Force, which is abbreviated. I don't know if I want to say RAAF. Yeah, but I'm pretty sure it's just RAAF. But in my mind, I want to say RAAF because it's cool. But he wanted to be in the
00:06:51
Speaker
Royal Australian Air Force. Okay. And obviously I have absolutely no idea what one has to do to be in the Australian Air Force and not a clue. Yeah. So I googled it and all studies had a list of steps that one would have to complete and I think it's important for us to kind of know how intense this process is. Okay. To get a sense of who Frederick was as a person. Okay.
00:07:21
Speaker
And so for our American listeners, some of these abbreviations, I'm just going to assume what they mean because I'm not Australian. So step one is to complete your, they call it HSC education, but they said that's through year 12. So I'm assuming that means high school. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I was into. Yeah. Cause it said like math, English, and other broad subjects. So I think that means you have to graduate high school. Right.
00:07:50
Speaker
Step two is you have to pass a series of aptitude tests, physical examinations, and background checks. You know what? I would be great until the physical examinations and then out the door. You're like, I'm pooped. Sorry. Yeah, I'm done.
00:08:07
Speaker
Step three is you have to choose the Air Force officer in like which pathway you're gonna take There's several so you just be like a general officer You could be an Australian Defense Force Academy person. You could go through graduate entry. So like If you are qualified in like dentistry nursing engineering and then you decide you want to be in the Air Force you could be like Oh, okay graduate entry. Yeah
00:08:37
Speaker
If you have some type of undergraduate hours under your belt, then you could go into like an undergraduate entry. You could do a medical program or into the reserves. So I'm assuming sort of like the army reserves. Okay. So lots of potential avenues. Lots of avenues.
00:08:59
Speaker
Step four is you have to pass a fitness training and intense fitness training, which is both physical and mental. So again, mental, I wonder as in how like they put you into stressful situations to see if you can keep your calm. That's what I would think, because I would think if you're a pilot for the Air Force, you could find yourself in,
Staying Calm Under Pressure
00:09:23
Speaker
you know, potentially situations. Yeah.
00:09:27
Speaker
I wonder, I'm just wondering if it's like NASA training in a way, but you have to, they have to know that you can handle those types of situations. See, I'm weird when it comes to the mental training part because when I was in college, I fell off my bunk bed my freshman year in my sleep and
00:09:55
Speaker
I hit face first and I had to get stitches. Yeah, it's right near my eyebrow, but I stayed super calm. Now I think I was in shock. I think that's why I stayed calm, but I was like, I think I should go to the emergency room. I said it just like that to my roommate. You know, I think that people are like that sometimes though, because when I, so I had to get stitches, this was like,
00:10:25
Speaker
I was teaching with you. I don't remember if I was next door to you or if I was still another building but Anthony and I were cleaning out the refrigerator and we were passing like things. He was handing things up to me and I was putting them in the sink and he handed a glass pitcher to me that had Kool-Aid in it because it needed to be dumped out and he thought I had the pitcher and I thought he had it and neither one of us had it and we dropped it and it cut my foot and like the whole time I was like
00:10:52
Speaker
I think I need a washcloth. I need to put pressure on this. I'm bleeding. And like I sat down and like was putting pressure on it. And I was like, it's fine. I'm going to be like, I was so calm. And then as soon as he was like, I think we need to go to the ER. That's when I immediately was like, well, I don't want to do stitches. I can't do it. Well, yeah, see, I'm the same way. Cause I think I went in shock then, but then Rodney makes fun of me all the time. Cause we'll be driving and I'll see.
00:11:22
Speaker
I don't know, let's say some baby goats. And I say, oh, cause I get all excited. And he's like, that reaction was a little bit extreme, Alison. Yeah. You scared me. That's what Rodney says too. They just need to, I don't know, learn our behavior and not get worked up into it. They need to eat a donut and calm down. Yes they do.
00:11:49
Speaker
Okay, back to the Air Force training. Step five is you have to complete the officer training. So you attend this training school that is based in Victoria, I'm pretty sure. And it's like a 17 week long program. And it's pretty intense. And it's mandatory before you can choose, like if you want to be in communications, if you want to be like on the leadership side, if you want to go into military law, like you take all of these different
00:12:19
Speaker
Courses when you're there to figure out what you want to do. So they really want to see how dedicated you are. This is oh, yeah, I mean 17 weeks That's significant. Mm-hmm. And then obviously the last step would be you just continue your learning So there is a huge extensive list of requirements. So obviously it's not for the faint at heart They're weeding out people. It's like college 101 classes. We're weeding you out Frederick was
00:12:50
Speaker
Very dedicated, but he was not the most experienced flyer. It wasn't like he was a little baby bird that was close to the edge of the nest. He had about 150 total hours of flying time in the two years that he had been flying. So he was starting to gain that experience, but I don't know that we would call him experienced, if that makes sense. Okay, right. So he's like an apprentice. He's not proficient at it yet.
00:13:19
Speaker
Yeah, but he had done, like he does do or did do solo flights. So it's not like he had to be with someone, but he wasn't to the caliber he wanted to be just yet. Okay. He had a class four instrument rating, which meant that he was able to fly at night time. Cause you have to get a different rating to be able to fly at night. Cause obviously it's more dangerous.
00:13:48
Speaker
But he was only class four means, yes, you can fly at night, but only if the conditions are pretty much perfect. Like a clear night with low wind. You can't be out there with fog and rain and all that stuff. Okay. So Frederick.
00:14:04
Speaker
Like I said, not a lot of experience, but he's only 20. So it's not like this is a 70 year old man we're talking about. He's still got a lot of time to achieve all of these things that he wants to achieve. He was a member of the Air Training Corps, which was a volunteer youth program that
Frederick's Flying Challenges
00:14:21
Speaker
was sponsored by the Royal Australian Air Force. He had his private pilot's license for just about a year and had that little bit of flight experience.
00:14:34
Speaker
20 he still lived with his parents and from everything I read was a really great Young guy, he didn't have any serious problems. There were some things that you're kind of like that's a little weird Yeah, okay, but we all have those things that that's like that's a little weird, you know, right but he was happy because he was pursuing his career of choice and
00:15:01
Speaker
he wanted to be in the Air Force. And he had applied twice to the Royal Air Force Academy, but was rejected both times because of inadequate educational qualifications. And I never found any details about what was lacking for him there. So I'm not 100% sure. Unless, well, I mean the education could be like
00:15:30
Speaker
I don't know if they could qualify those assessments in there, too, or something like that. I'm not sure. Oh, maybe. Maybe he just didn't score high enough on placement exams or something like that. So he tried twice and didn't make it. Yeah. But he was dedicated. He's a member of the training camp or the training corps. He is dedicated to being
00:15:52
Speaker
a pilot he wants his career in aviation. He was studying part time to become a commercial pilot, but he did not have the greatest of records.
00:16:08
Speaker
I mean, he had twice failed all five commercial license examination subjects. And I don't know if that plays into the Royal Air Force Academy or if that's just with the commercial pilot things. I bet it does. Oh, that's not good. He failed all five? Yeah. But that did stop him because he had, as recently as a month before this story takes place, tried again.
00:16:39
Speaker
and failed three more commercial license. Oh, no, Frederick. You need to study more, buddy. Make those flashcards. Yes. Those were a game. I remember when I discovered flashcards, I was like, who did not tell me about these? It was a game changer when I did my, I think it was like, we had to take a New Testament and an Old Testament class at my college because it's a Presbyterian college. Oh, I did too. Oh, yeah.
00:17:09
Speaker
And so we had to learn all these vocabulary words, game changer. It was so good. Now, how easy do kids have it? They've got Quizlet. Oh, I know. They can make their cards on there and it will quiz them. They don't even have somebody else read it to them. Or flip them over yourself, seriously. But, you know, I'm no flying expert. But for my research, I don't think that Frederick was the most amazing pilot in the making.
00:17:39
Speaker
According to an article that I read that, you know, has a title, the length of a sentence called the vol, the vol and Tish disappearance, another UFO UFO cold case solved. Oh, that was a mouthful. Yeah.
00:17:58
Speaker
He had been involved in a couple flying incidents. So things like straying into a controlled zone when flying near Sydney. That's not good either. And he did receive a warning for that.
00:18:14
Speaker
And twice he deliberately flew into clouds, which I guess is a big no, no, I did not know that. And for that they were considering prosecuting him, but I don't know that I ever read what became of that. Well, if you think if he's not good enough to pass these tests and
00:18:33
Speaker
It has to be pretty much clear conditions before he can fly. And flying into a cloud where there could be another plane or something like that concealed by the cloud. Probably not the best. No, not a good decision.
00:18:50
Speaker
But, you know, nothing was deterring him from this dream. And like you said, I don't want to sound cynical because I'm not this type of person, but I do think for every individual, there comes a time for us all to smell the roses, smell the coffee, whatever you want to say, so to speak, because not every path is meant for every person.
00:19:16
Speaker
And sometimes I think we kind of have to face the facts and realize when it's time to move on. And I'm saying this from experience. Right. Yeah. We've all tried things that we weren't good at. But you've got to figure that out for yourself. If somebody tries to tell you that, you're never going to believe it. Right. Because, you know,
00:19:40
Speaker
Teachers have to take exams to become teachers. I don't know if a lot of people know that, but it's not like we just roll out of bed and your teacher, I'm going to educate youth, but a lot of people have a hard time passing those exams because they can be hard. And I remember the last one I had to take the first time I took it, I felt it by like three points. And I told Anthony, I was like, if I I'm taking it again, and if I fell at a second time,
00:20:11
Speaker
I'm not going to take it again. Then it's just not meant for me to do that. I'm just not a person that's going to take a test eight times because to me, it's just not meant to be. Thankfully, I passed. But again, sometimes we just all have to move on. But he was having a hard time moving on.
Final Flight and UFO Sighting
00:20:31
Speaker
So we are going to talk about now what happened, why we're talking about, oh, Freddie, why we're talking about Fred today. So picture with me, Alison, if you will, the sun is setting over the beautiful Australian horizon. The weather is beautiful. The wind is just blowing enough to make it feel nice outside. It is pretty much clear out. It is the perfect,
00:20:57
Speaker
afternoon, the perfect evening. And Frederick thinks this is the perfect night to go flying. And at least it's clear. That's true. Weather's beautiful. Yeah. And this was the weather on October 1st, 1978. And I read that he had actually gone to this airport
00:21:23
Speaker
before to fly at night, but it was like either rainy or foggy and they turned him away. And so now the weather is perfect. And he's like, you know what? I'm going to go back to the airport. I'm going to rent a little plane and I'm going to go flying this afternoon.
00:21:42
Speaker
So the sun was just setting, it was around 6.20 in the evening. So he's cruising down the runway and his Rennan Cessna 182L. Don't have any idea what the 182L means, but I know that's part of his plane. Sounds official. Yeah, sounds official. At the Maribin Airport in Victoria on his first ever not time flight. Which he is at least allowed to do. Yes, he is.
00:22:09
Speaker
So Frederick planned to fly west for about 40 minutes along the Australian coast. At Cape Otway, he then actually headed south over Bass Strait towards King Island and towards open water. And Alison, this stretch of water is actually known to be particularly dangerous. I don't know if it's just one of those straits that maybe catches a lot of wind or has rough seas or that kind of thing.
00:22:38
Speaker
Um, but it is reserved more for experienced pilots from what I gathered. And like Frederick's problem is because he's failed. I'm like psychoanalyzing him is because he's failed all these tests. I feel like he's one of those people, you know, who they are, who are like, I'm just not good at standardized tests, but I'm, I can do it. You know?
00:23:08
Speaker
And I feel like he just feels this deeply seated need to prove himself. And I think that's why he keeps putting himself in those situations, like flying into a cloud when he knows he's not supposed to. Let's take this dangerous path because I'll show them, you know, I mean, he would say he's too big for his britches. Yeah, that's the sense that I get. Yeah.
00:23:35
Speaker
Me too. So, like you said, he's kind of like, I'll show them I'm gonna go across this street to King Island. And the weather was clear, the wind was calm, so maybe he was just feeling overly confident. Maybe. According to an article by Brian Dunning, quote, King Island is about halfway between the main island of Tasmania and the mainland Australia.
00:24:01
Speaker
To fly there from Melbourne, you typically don't fly a straight line because that would mean you're over water nearly the entire way. And flying over water is, of course, riskier than flying over land. So pilots typically go from Melbourne southwest along the coast to Cape Otway, which is the closest point to the mainland to King Island.
00:24:22
Speaker
You're not typically, if you're flying this, just going to go straight because, you know, we think to go straight because that's the quickest way to get there. You're going to go a little bit out of your way. So you're flying over the water for less amount of time. That makes sense.
00:24:38
Speaker
Yeah, because the route that Brian Dunning talks about, you are actually over land most of the time, and it's the safest route to King Island versus just going straight across. Well, because if you need to make an emergency landing, there's land. Yeah, you need that for landing. Yeah.
00:24:58
Speaker
It's part of the word. Frederick's flight actually started pretty uneventfully. About 20 minutes after the sunset, he turned away from the coast at an altitude of 4,500 feet and began the long stretch over the water. I did read in my research that he told a few different stories as to why he was flying that night. One was that he was supposed to meet friends on the island for dinner.
00:25:24
Speaker
So he's flying there to meet his friends, which I think seems a little unapplauseable, but yeah, I don't know. Maybe that's the type of thing him and his friends do. Maybe. So regardless, he is going towards King's Island. That King Island is his destination. But at that moment that he turned from the coast, things kind of go down for Frederick.
00:25:54
Speaker
So it was a route that many people have flown many times before, but when he was flying over this straight near that cape, he sighted what he thought was a UFO flying nearby. So, remember earlier I said that Frederick was, you know, like the seemingly normal kid and I was like, well, you know, he has like his little forks about him.
00:26:23
Speaker
Well, one was that Frederick was a little obsessed with UFOs. And when I say a little obsessed, I mean, he was like a lot of obsessed.
00:26:38
Speaker
talked about them a lot. He felt that he was on the brink of proving that UFOs were a thing. His father even said, and I think I talk about this later on, that Frederick had kind of hoped to be abducted by aliens so that he could prove UFOs were, you know, real. And some people believe that's why he was so obsessed with going into the Air Force because that put him one step closer into this extraterrestrial realm. Oh my.
00:27:09
Speaker
Yeah, okay. Yeah. So he's flying over the straight and he sees the UFO. When he saw the flying object, he immediately radioed the airport at Melbourne, the Melbourne Air Services. And the transcript
00:27:27
Speaker
is a little bit difficult for civilians I think to understand because there's a lot of like military abbreviations and things on there. Yeah. His first few calls though came in something similar to this quote seems to be a large aircraft below 5000 just pass over me a few thousand feet above.
00:27:48
Speaker
So he goes on to say, it's approaching right now from due east towards me. It seems to me that he's playing some sort of game. Oh my gosh. This is his like conversation with these air service people. He's like, there's a large aircraft. It's passing over me. It seems like a game. Yeah, it's playing some type of game with me.
00:28:14
Speaker
And he continues to fly on, and the transmission goes back and forth, and as the transmissions continue, they become stranger and more weird. Oh, how's it get stranger than it's playing a game with me? Yeah, that's true. Good point.
00:28:31
Speaker
I'm gonna actually read a little bit of Frederick's exchange with Melbourne I read that an audio does exist to this conversation like the original conversation with Frederick and the air service people But I wasn't able to find anything when I googled online and all the articles that said That an audio does exist said the same thing that I was able to find you can find lots of dramatizations where it's been things like
00:28:59
Speaker
You know, and some mysteries or, well, I don't think it has been there, but shows like that. And they hire people to pretend to be these people. Oh, right. Right.
00:29:09
Speaker
Okay, so we're gonna talk a little bit or read a little bit of their transcript. So Frederick says, my level is four and a half thousand, four, five, zero, zero. And so the air traffic people say, and you cannot confirm the identity of the aircraft. Frederick says, affirmative. They go, Roger, stand by. So he's telling them like, I don't know what's flying around me.
00:29:38
Speaker
And so they're telling him to stand by and he says, it's not an aircraft. It is. And then the microphone just like pauses for a few beats and they come back and say, can you describe the aircraft? He said, it's flying past. It's a long shape. I can't identify more than that. That is such a speed. And then there's just like a pause for about three seconds. It's before me right now, Melbourne.
00:30:06
Speaker
And so then they say, Roger, and how large would the object be? So he's saying, this is huge. I can't even comprehend how big this is. And it is flying past me at such a speed. It's right in front of me. And so they're like, OK, how big is this thing? And he says, it seems like it's stationary. What I'm doing right now, it's orbiting. And the thing is just orbiting on top of me also. It's got this green light and a sort of metallic light. And it's all shiny on the side.
00:30:36
Speaker
okay yeah so then there's just a pause again it just vanished Frederick says then Frederick says Melbourne would you know what kind of aircraft I've got it's a military aircraft so he's saying is it a military aircraft you know what this is and they say confirm the aircraft just vanished and he said say that again and the
00:31:05
Speaker
Airport says, is the aircraft still with you? And there's like a pause. And Frederick says it's approaching from the southwest.
00:31:14
Speaker
Oh, it was just at another spot before Okay, so then it disappeared and now it's coming at him from a different direction Yeah, then Frederick says the engine is is rough idling I've got to get it set at 23 24 and this thing is coughing and he like starts coughing Roger what are your intentions? My intentions are to go to King Island Melbourne that strange aircraft is hovering on top of me again. I
00:31:41
Speaker
Then there's just kind of silence for a few seconds. He said, it's hovering and it's not an aircraft. And then the line goes silent. Oh my gosh. Since Allison and I don't work together anymore, recording our podcast became harder until we found Zencaster. Zencaster is podcast recording the way it should be, web-based and as easy as creating a link and clicking to join a recording session.
00:32:11
Speaker
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00:33:21
Speaker
So obviously Allison, you can guess. Oh. Something happens to Frederick. The line dies and they can never get the transmission back again. Right after he says it's not an aircraft. Yes. Okay.
Aftermath: Search and Theories
00:33:41
Speaker
A C in air search was
00:33:44
Speaker
undertaken that included ocean going ship traffic the royal air force also took part in that with some of their aircraft and then even eight civilian aircrafts were part of this search to look for Frederick and they actually searched about a thousand square miles a big footprint to cover mm-hmm yeah but I guess I mean I don't know I'm thinking Captain America here when you're
00:34:15
Speaker
plane crashes how they could know exactly where it is i mean i don't know
00:34:23
Speaker
And then I wonder, could he have been carried by the current? What does a plane typically do when it crashes into the ocean? I would imagine it just sinks. Float for a while and then sinks or just go straight out? I don't know. And then I know that planes have the black box on them, which has all of their radio transmissions and all of that stuff. So does it send out a signal?
00:34:50
Speaker
Is there something on the, I don't think that I don't know. Well, I don't know. I think they can find, there is something on the black boxes, right? Because wasn't there that commercial aircraft that just disappeared. This wasn't too long ago within the last 20 years. And they never found like the black box or anything like that. Yeah. It was Malaysian airlines. Yeah. So I guess there is some way to track that. Yeah.
00:35:22
Speaker
But they search this 1000 square miles and they find no trace of Frederick and no trace of his aircraft. Hmm.
00:35:34
Speaker
There were a couple of sorta kinda witnesses that came forward. One asked to remain anonymous and he claimed that he was traveling with his family when he noticed unusual activity in the sky. He said that there was a lime green light flying about 300 feet above a smaller aircraft. I know, there's a green light. And he would have had no idea what Frederick told
00:36:03
Speaker
Yeah. When you told the air traffic controller basically.
00:36:09
Speaker
Okay, that's creepy because in my head, I was like, maybe he's making it up because he can't prove that there's extraterrestrial life. So maybe he took his own plane down, you know, knowing that he couldn't pass all these tests. You know what I mean? But maybe he was thinking like, I'll at least prove all these people wrong. You know, I'll make them believe that there's extraterrestrials, you know, but to know that there was a witness who is giving a description similar to what Frederick had given.
00:36:39
Speaker
That's a little creepy. Yeah, it makes you think for a second. This witness says both flew closer to each other and the other one disappeared from his view. Which is just what Frederick said. Right. Six weeks after Frederick's disappearance, an amateur photographer came forward and he claimed
00:36:59
Speaker
that on that evening, so the evening that Frederick disappeared, he had actually set up a camera at the Cape to take pictures of the sunset, which is a totally photographer thing to do. And the last one, there was, actually, you know what, just scroll down a little bit, Alison. And tell me what you see in the picture before we talk about it.
00:37:25
Speaker
Okay, well, it is a beautiful view of a sunset, but there's also a big black thing in the sky, but it's a weird shape. You can't tell what it is. And so, I mean, it could be some huge object flying in the air. It could be a blurred image of a bird, or it could be a bug on the camera lens.
00:37:51
Speaker
Yeah, and it almost kind of looks like there's smoke or a shadow or something behind it on the one side. Or it's the wings of a fly that got stuck in the camera lens. I mean, yeah, there's definitely like a darker black image and then like almost a more transparent something on the side of it. Yeah.
00:38:16
Speaker
So he comes forward and says, you know what, I have been taking pictures and there's this black spot in the upper right hand corner of the very last photograph that I took on that night. And at first he's like, you know, this is probably just a developing error, right? Because that happens all the time, especially in the like seventies, even pictures from when I was little, there's some developing errors on some of them.
00:38:46
Speaker
But the mark was actually determined to be by a professional. This American photo analyst determined that it was a metallic object apparently in a cloud of exhaust about a mile away from the camera. And it was actually studied by the Kodak lab. I don't know how they know that, but maybe they could tell more by the negative. Well, I think they did.
00:39:13
Speaker
Yeah, I think the Kodak lab did look at the negative and there was no smudge or you know, something that would have made it develop odd. So whatever was in the picture was actually in the picture was captured was actually in the picture. But you know, I had never thought I don't know how they are able to determine it was about a mile away from the camera. Because what if it was like you said, a fly, right? Or, you know,
00:39:41
Speaker
something along that line, then I think you could easily say that it was just. Yeah. To me, those two things. Yeah. I don't know how they would determine the distance. Yeah. Cause I don't know. Cause like you said, now that you mentioned the fly, like I kind of almost get stuck on, I think it could be something like that.
00:40:09
Speaker
On October 23rd, just two days after Frederick's disappearance, the Melbourne newspaper called The Age printed news about there had been rumors or people have been saying they heard a quote unquote metallic sound.
00:40:23
Speaker
And that several flight personnel heard that at the same time that Frederick mentioned that in the air traffic control report when he said, Oh, my engine, it's rough idling. There have been a lot of people that heard in that area, a sound that would have been similar to an engine sputtering like that. Like right before a plane went down or something.
00:40:47
Speaker
Even the Department of Transportation officials said that there was quote, sort of a metallic sound over the radio before communication was lost. Hmm. They continue to look for Frederick until October the 25th. And when no traces of him or the aircraft were ever found, the case just turned cold pretty much. I didn't read that there was a lot more that happened after that.
00:41:14
Speaker
On October 31st, a report published that a woman named Rhonda, who was supposedly the 17 year old girlfriend of Frederick, kind of did an unofficial search. She and a couple of her friends, like his and her friends, she actually went, flew for about two hours to search for her boyfriend. She flew to where he went missing because she believed that he was alive. So she believed he crashed near that Cape.
00:41:44
Speaker
And she said quote he always told me that's what he'd do if he got in trouble over C So I don't know if she meant that he would crash Come back and crash his plane. I don't know I think that quote could be kind of taken other ways did she mean he would fake seeing these UFOs like what does that quote mean right? Yeah, that's a bizarre thing to say mm-hmm
00:42:11
Speaker
So she and a group of his friends armed with these transceivers, they climbed through mountains. They climbed through the bush. They did all of this stuff in places that wasn't searched originally because they're like, he could have crashed on land. He could have, maybe he didn't know where he was. I mean, it is dark. Maybe they didn't know exactly where he was when those transmissions ended. So maybe he did crash over land.
00:42:37
Speaker
And so they actually searched in a lot of different places because they were certain that he was still alive. You know, they bring up an interesting point because I'm wondering now if it's dark already and you're that high.
00:42:56
Speaker
I imagine you can't clearly see what's below you, unless it's something like a big bustling metropolis. I'm wondering if it's rural land versus water, would you be able to see what you were over? I'm going to talk about that in some of the theories.
00:43:19
Speaker
this is gonna sound this is such a stupid question and people are gonna be like this woman has a master's degree but it is what it is so I wonder I've always wondered this like clearly airplanes I know that when they fly they fly using you know those controls that tell them what direction they're heading it's not like when you're in a car and you're
00:43:43
Speaker
like, you know, flying it on your own. They have all these instruments that they look to to know where they're going. So when they're flying at night, are they literally just, they're flying blind into the darkness? Do they have like a headlight of any sort? No. Or are they just up there? I think they're just up there. No, thank you. No, ma'am. That would mean they would have, they would have something of, you know, instrument in front of them, you know, where it shows the little bleeps. Yeah. Like the little, yeah. Like if there's someone close, but yeah, I think,
00:44:15
Speaker
I don't think you can see much. So you really are just trusting the instruments in your aircraft. I think so. Yeah. That would be a no for me. Maggie's never flying again. And in that same article, no, just I'll fly at nighttime, not during, or not at night, only during the day.
00:44:38
Speaker
Same article his girlfriend actually said and I think this is kind of bizarre She said quote if a UFO did come to earth. He'd go back with it So again, just kind of reiterating How much he's obsessed with extraterrestrial activity? Mm-hmm The group really didn't find anything though. There was like a oil slick that was found in the area where they were looking and
00:45:06
Speaker
that a lot of people believed could have been where he vanished. But according to the Sydney Morning Herald, Tess concluded that the oil didn't come from an aircraft, rather a marine diesel engine. So it wouldn't have been the same type of oil. Okay. It's not jet fuel or something like that. Right. Okay.
00:45:25
Speaker
So that leaves us now wondering what the heck happened to Frederick?
UFO Obsession and Alien Abduction Theory
00:45:32
Speaker
Like, where'd he go? Did he take his own plane down? Was he actually abducted by aliens?
00:45:40
Speaker
And that's going to be the first theory that we talk about is UFO slash possible alien abduction. Not because we necessarily think that it's the true theory, but because I think it's the most obvious one to talk about first because he's obsessed with extraterrestrial stuff. And you've got the eyewitness. Right. And we'll talk about that too.
00:46:01
Speaker
So he, meaning Frederick, wasn't just convinced that UFOs existed. He was also convinced that aliens would soon be attacking earth. So this may seem out there, but for Frederick, it wasn't really out there. And like you said, he wasn't the only one who saw strange things that night. Right.
00:46:28
Speaker
That's the part that I keep coming back to. The next morning we had a farmer who was along the edge of the flight path so his farm would have been close to where Frederick was flying along the coast. He actually came forward and said that he observed a flying object hovering over his property. The object was apparently about 30 meters across and it appeared to have a small airplane attached to its side.
00:46:54
Speaker
So could this airplane have been Frederick either moments before he was abducted or was he already abducted and they also took the plane with him? Either way creepy. Mm-hmm. The farmer said that the aircraft looked like it was leaking oil, which I'm assuming it would have been if he said that his engine was causing it's bettering. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:47:20
Speaker
This farmer was so disturbed by what he saw that he etched the aircraft's tail number into one of his tractors so he wouldn't forget it. Okay, so here is confirmation. I mean, this is not just a guy who's like, let me tell you about this story about what I saw, you know? I mean, he sees something and he says, I'm going to write this down because somebody needs to know about this.
00:47:46
Speaker
What did they think when they heard these numbers? I mean, were they anything? The numbers match the numbers on Frederick's plane.
00:47:57
Speaker
But my thing here is, was that information, when did this guy come forward? Was it like the next day? Was it in the papers? Yeah. Was it in the paper? Like if it was the next day and that number had never been released and I would be like, holy crap, he was abducted by an alien. Right. It's true. It's true. Yeah. It's true. Just like Mulder always said.
00:48:21
Speaker
But I'm wondering when it was released. That's a good point. Obviously UFO-ologist. How would one say that? I think it's UFO-logists. Okay.
00:48:36
Speaker
They, according to all things interesting, immediately were like, it's aliens. He was abducted by aliens. They claim because there were those eyewitness accounts of the green light. You know, Frederick had reported that other people had reported it moving across the sky. They're like, it has to be. A group in Phoenix, Arizona also believes that a UFO abduction is the most likely possibility, according to all things interesting.
00:49:01
Speaker
The Ground Saucer Watch, which is the name of this group, claims to have photos taken by a plumber that show a fast-moving light moving through the water near the scene of the disappearance. How do you have a photo that shows a fast-moving object? That would mean it would be a blur. Well, when the photos were looked at by experts, I don't know who
00:49:26
Speaker
When they say experts, are we talking about experts in this UF ology or are we talking about, you know, government experts? Yeah. The photos were too blurry to identify anything. Well, yeah. They're like, Oh, it's something moving really fast. When really? Yeah, a blur. Yeah. And, you know, we possibly could talk about the picture that has that
00:49:51
Speaker
UFO air quotes in the upper right hand corner, but then Because we've determined it's not dirt. It's not any damage on the negative, right? but to me Like you said, I just don't know that we can definitively say that that's a UFO. Maybe he did capture that's Frederick maybe had some smoke, you know coming out of his plane and
00:50:21
Speaker
You know, it was just too far away for the plane to be clear with the camera technology at the time. I mean, yeah, I just don't see UFO and this is coming from the girl that thinks Baba Yaga is real. So like, you know, I'm not one to shy away from a good weird theory, right? But I just don't see it. Well, cause it's not, you know, he's making comments about it being like,
00:50:50
Speaker
circular or oblong and it's like a weird shape with sharper edges. So it doesn't fit even what Frederick described. Yeah. And I just keep going back to the fact that his family and his girlfriend keep saying, Oh, he would 100, like he would 100% be abducted by aliens.
00:51:15
Speaker
They were, he would love that, you know, comments like that. It just is kind of weird to me. And Brian Dunning kind of felt the same as what we are. He talks about in that article, you know, he kind of flirted with the limits of flying. He had all those incidents where he actions. Yeah. Yeah. The slaps on the wrist type of thing. He flew into the clouds. He flew into that restricted airspace. So when he disappeared, he had
00:51:46
Speaker
Like a record, I want to say, right? Potential punishments looming. Yeah, because that Brian Dunn said, Dunning said that he had actually received a reprimand, a letter of reprimand for the cloud incident. So he already had this kind of reputation that he wasn't the most trustworthy of people. Yeah. So could it be that
00:52:15
Speaker
It's just a hoax.
Alternative Explanations for Disappearance
00:52:17
Speaker
Yeah. Another possible theory is that he crashed, which I think is really plausible. We've already talked about, you know, how experienced he was at flying. And many people believe that his inexperience could have played a pretty significant role in his disappearance. True. We know he was really eager. He had lofty goals, despite all these rejections from the Air Force Academy.
00:52:38
Speaker
He still continues to fly and like you said Was he so determined to be a pilot and was so overconfident that he was just kind of like I'll show them You know, I'll take this Dangerous route they can kiss my butt like I'll show them how good I am when he's not at all It was right to do it. Yeah, right cuz he had had all those incidents. He only had 150 flight hours You know, this was not
00:53:07
Speaker
a path for the light at heart. So, you know, I'm wondering if he was just kind of like my maybe would say too big for his britches. Actually flying over water into the setting sun. I didn't know this can be super disorienting for even the best pilots. And then flying at night can also be very disorienting for experienced pilots. So I'm imagining Frederick who is not experienced flying in these dangerous
00:53:36
Speaker
situations and I'm wondering, could they have been the downfall and not the UFO? And I may be thinking instead of focusing on the flight and those, you know, critical tasks that he would have needed to do to maintain a safe flight. Again, I have no idea what all that involves, but I'm assuming you don't just set cruise control and you just go. Right. I could be wrong, but I was feeling like, especially in a small plane, there's probably a lot more you're manually doing than if you're flying, you know, a commercial
00:54:06
Speaker
Airplane so yeah, but many think he was Obsessive almost delusional and that he may have imagined seeing the UFO or The lights could have been from his own aircraft and he's like, oh my god. I'm seeing a UFO and he just gets so Focused in on that
00:54:30
Speaker
that he just forgets about everything else. I actually read a computer search of the sky so when people went back and looked up what the weather was like that day and time said that
00:54:45
Speaker
Frederick could have seen what he thought were lights because the sky was so clear. People are like, did he see Venus, which we know is typically the brightest star in our sky because of how close it is to earth. So could he have seen Venus, Mars, Mercury, and another really bright star and thought because they form like a diamond shape and thought, Oh my God, that's a UFO in the distance.
00:55:13
Speaker
right seems a little bit of a stretch to me though well yeah but if he's like so disoriented that he's moving he may not know he's moving and it looks like that is moving and not remaining the constant i don't know a lot of people think again in that same dunning article um
00:55:34
Speaker
think that it could be star related. In that article it says quote, these four lots would have represented a diamond shape given the well-known tendency of viewers to connect the dots and so could well have been perceived as an aircraft or a UFO. In fact the striking conjunction was shaped as a vertically elongated diamond thus explaining Frederick saying that the UFO had a long shape end quote. Okay I mean I get trying to have
00:56:01
Speaker
an explanation. And I'm not trying to say that he's telling the truth that there is a UFO, but I don't know if I fully believe that the stars would have been bright enough that he would have mistaken it for a huge metallic object. Yeah. Oh, that's true. I had kind of forgotten about he's able to distinguish that it is metallic. I hadn't even thought about that.
00:56:28
Speaker
Some people think he may have felt victim to like a horizontal illusion or like a horizon illusion. Apparently this is a thing I didn't know, but you can become disoriented and you don't really know what's up and what's down pretty much.
00:56:46
Speaker
This actually happened. I didn't know this and I feel like I should have until I read that Brian Dunning article that this is what happened to JFK jr. Oh Yeah, I didn't know that till I read the Brian Dunning article and then that article he talks about what happened in JFK juniors death and it sounds so similar to what
00:57:13
Speaker
Frederick could have done like some of the similarities. I think this is a pretty plausible theory in my mind, but in that article it says quote, but the most significant point to consider is that this was Frederick's first night flight over the water. These conditions are not too dissimilar to those which contributed to the deaths of John F. Kennedy Jr.
00:57:36
Speaker
and his two passengers in 1999. Kennedy was flying at night over water with no visible horizon, no points of reference. It's easy to become disoriented in such conditions. Kennedy repeatedly banked left and right trying to level out, making things worse, and all the while his rate of descent increased until he struck the water nose down.
00:57:56
Speaker
It's a type of accident that's all too familiar. Spatial disorientation is a virtual death sentence, according to Brian Dunning's article. There's a popular cautionary tale among pilots taught in many safety videos and seminars, and the average time between becoming spatially disoriented and death is a mere 178 seconds. Such pilots are often unaware of the plane's altitude
00:58:24
Speaker
relative to the ground, usually due to the loss of visibility in this spatial disorientation. The figure of 178 seconds comes from a famous simulator research project. And though the studies date and methodology have come under question, the figure of just about three minutes has been repeatedly confirmed by real world air crashes such as Kennedy's and probably Frederick's, end quote. So what happens when you go into this horizon illusion thing?
00:58:54
Speaker
So I think from what I read about it, that you don't, you have no point of reference. So you can't tell where the land begins and the sky ends.
00:59:10
Speaker
Okay. And so you get disoriented and you're in my mind thinking, am I flying straight? Like that kind of thing. And then you try to correct yourself. And you're, when you do that, that makes the problem worse. And then you start losing altitude and you can't tell really where you're at to kind of straighten back up. And before you know it, your nose deep in water or you've crashed. Okay. So if this happens to him,
00:59:38
Speaker
And he somehow, you know, gets disoriented. Maybe he sees a reflection of his own plane in the water and that's what looks metallic. But what about like the green light? Well, don't airplanes have lights on their wings? Yeah. Could they be green? Maybe. So that's what we think. Maybe he saw that. Mm hmm. That's what some people think.
01:00:09
Speaker
That's an interesting theory. But if he did disappear with a crash, would we have found at least remnants of this Cessna that he was in?
01:00:22
Speaker
I mean, they did in 1983 something washed ashore that had some numbers that belonged to Frederick Cessna, like the serial numbers, like a part of it matched. But I don't think that would be super uncommon. Then again, I don't know how many Cessna's. Right. Crash into the water. Right. I would think that isn't a very common thing. And if it was indeed his, I feel like we would
01:00:50
Speaker
It'd be in your research that there was confirmation.
The Staging Disappearance Theory and Pop Culture Comparisons
01:00:55
Speaker
So you kind of handed out this next theory that it was a staged disappearance. Yeah.
01:01:03
Speaker
Many, many people talk about this theory because they're like, you know what, this trip was like 45 minutes. His little Cessna would have been able to fly 500 miles on his tank that he had full. So he's not running out of gas. So where the heck did he go?
01:01:24
Speaker
For me, the leg this theory stands on is this. Frederick had two different stories as to why he was going to this island. One is he told people that he was meeting some friends for dinner or to pick them up for something along those lines. This was the story that he told people at the airport when he rented the aircraft. The second story that he told
01:01:48
Speaker
I guess his friends and family was that he was going to the island to get crayfish, which is a pretty common thing at this island, which I thought was a North American thing, but apparently is also an Australian thing. So I learned something new today. Yeah, but you're like, I'm just gonna hop on a plane and fly. Yeah.
01:02:05
Speaker
to get some food that I want. You know what I mean? It's weird. Okay. So that's a big thing for me. Why? I think it could have potentially been staged or maybe like you said earlier, he's telling these two stories because his actual plan is to kind of go a different route. And so he just kind of gets his lies a little confused. Right.
01:02:31
Speaker
The next piece of evidence that makes this theory plausible is that I read in most of my research that at no time was this aircraft ever plotted on radar where he said he was supposed to be.
01:02:47
Speaker
Oh so this casts a lot of doubt as to whether he was even near the cape and the Melbourne police received reports of a light aircraft making a mysterious landing not far from where he was supposed to be but not in the route that he would have been on. So this is feeding into the hoax theory saying well he just
01:03:13
Speaker
He acted like his plane went down, but really he made a landing somewhere else. Yeah. And that is actually.
01:03:25
Speaker
what a lot of people say. Could he have been running away because he was, you know, this failed Air Force applicant and he's kind of saying, well, maybe I can quote unquote prove that UFOs exist through my disappearance. So a lot of people do think he may have been running away. Maybe that was the best solution for him. But again, where the heck is his airplane?
01:03:56
Speaker
Especially if it was close. And they had reports of it landing there, then you would think that somebody would have gone there to look for it. Because it's not like you can just hide an airplane in some bushes.
01:04:09
Speaker
right maybe maybe he knew where some collapsing sand dunes were there you go that's where he ended his plane and it got sucked into this Australian sand that's right there we go just like the theory of the Beaumont children yeah so salt salt it yeah you're welcome another interesting theory comes from that same Brian Dunning article and this one is kind of
01:04:38
Speaker
It's kind of out there, but then you're kind of like, okay. Like when you first hear it, you're like, really? And then you're like, okay, let's kind of, could be. And it goes along with the stage disappearance. He says in the article, quote, for me, the most shocking part of Frederick's story came when I read the radio transcripts. The language sounded familiar, almost too familiar.
01:05:01
Speaker
And then I looked at the year of the event, 1978. Had there been a radio conversation talking about unidentified traffic and landing lights and pop culture around that time? It turned out there had. Listen to this. So I'm going to read to you the little conversation that Braun Dunning had in his article. Okay.
01:05:23
Speaker
Aries 31, so this is one of the... Baked lanes, okay. Yeah. And we're talking to Indianapolis. So Aries 31 says, Indianapolis Center, do you have any traffic for Aries 31, Indianapolis? Aries 31 negative, the only traffic I have is a TWAL 10-11 in your six o'clock position range 15 miles.
01:05:50
Speaker
Aries 31 has traffic at two o'clock, slightly above and descending. Indianapolis. Aries 31, Roger. I have a primary target about in that position now. I have no known high altitude traffic. Stand by. I'll check. Over.
01:06:09
Speaker
Air East 31. Air East 31, the traffic's not lower than us. It's one o'clock now, still above me, and it's descending. Indianapolis. Can you see any aircraft type? So this sounds familiar to me. Cause he's like, yeah, it's above me now. And they're like, can you identify it? What is it? Air East 31 says negative center, no distinct outline. To tell you the truth, it's hard to describe. It's rather brilliant.
01:06:35
Speaker
That's the brightest of any collision lights. I think I've ever seen alternating white to red. The colors are a little striking The TWA 5 1 7 says center this is TWA 5 1 7 the traffic now looks extra bright landing lights I thought air east was on his had his landing lights off so again
01:07:00
Speaker
with the lights and I think the part for me that is the most like similar is the conversation in this obvious fake transcript about no it's above me oh no it's it's lower now and it's like just seconds you know Dunning said that Steven Spielberg's close encounters of the third kind had been released less than a year before Frederick made his radio report
01:07:27
Speaker
And Dunning says, quote, he replicated every major element of the famous air traffic control scene. The movie was a favorite of UFO fans and captured the imaginations of young people. Pilots in particular love the air traffic control scene. Frederick was all three. He was young, he was a pilot, and he was obsessed with UFOs. End quote. So he's thinking.
01:07:49
Speaker
Again, he's living out this fantasy, basically. Yeah. And Dunning says, you know, could he have been a little too obsessed? He was having a little too much fun. And so he was like, I'll copy this movie scene. Like you said, I'm going to live out my fantasy. And when he does that ends up crashing into the ocean. So I guess this could go back to the crash theory, just with a different reason why he didn't become
01:08:20
Speaker
you know, disoriented. He was acting silly and then that caused him to crash. Right. There are even more like obscure theories regarding this case. One was that Frederick was shot down by drug runners. That's a little extreme to me. I think they would have been able to hear that on the transmission. Right.
01:08:44
Speaker
There was another that there was an electrical discharge from a cloud that caused his aircraft to catch fire and pretty much explode, which I'm wondering if that could have been what the photographer caught on camera. But I feel like they would have heard something. Yeah, that's true. Kind of like when he was shut, if he was shut down. Come on, Maggie. From a drug runner. Right. I think in my mind,
01:09:13
Speaker
that the most, I was going back and forth originally. And I think you're right, the UFO other eyewitness could have just read a newspaper article and then come forward, right? And while I do think it's possible that it could have been a hoax and that this was
01:09:34
Speaker
him thinking, well, I'll avoid being punished and I'll prove that UFOs exist. I really think the most likely is that horizon illusion. And if he somehow is either as plain as inverted or
01:09:52
Speaker
He's just so disoriented and that he sees the shiny object, but it's really the reflection of his own plane. And then he loses control of it. Yeah, that's how I'm kind of leaning to. I do think the Steven Spielberg theory is interesting. I just don't know if he was that immature. Right, right.
01:10:18
Speaker
Some people think that Frederick got too close to discovering the truth and was abducted by aliens. Some people think that the alien ploy is just a way to sensationalize his death. Regardless, on that October night a young man died. A young man that had so much to offer the world left too early. He was a dedicated man who, if given the chance, could have made a contribution to this world. I honestly don't know what happened to Frederick
01:10:43
Speaker
And I'm pretty certain we probably will never know. I'll leave you with this quote from Fox Mulder of the X-Files. Quote, we must ask ourselves, are they really a hoax? Are we truly alone? Or are we just being lied to? End quote.
01:11:00
Speaker
Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
01:11:30
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.
01:11:53
Speaker
Looking for a new podcast to keep you entertained because you are all caught up on Coffee and Cases? Check out TZ Borden and his podcast, Tapes from the Dark Side. The podcast is organized into seasons with one case per season and four seasons already there for you to binge with season five just about to start.
01:12:16
Speaker
Now is the perfect time to check out the pod. You will not regret it. Check it out. And if you like what you hear, which we obviously know you will, leave a five-star review and let TZ know that Allison and I sent you. Here's a little bit about the show from the host himself.
01:12:35
Speaker
You know those dads who literally never sit down? That was Danny. He constantly was doing something either for them or with them. Hashtag girl dad, totally. We hope to one day have a son, which was taken from us. If you make a mistake, there's a very severe possibility your goat boat's gonna get shot. Do you understand that? Yes. Wanting to do our best to secure, make sure everybody was safe, so we started making verbal commands. Shut up. You've listened, you obey.
01:13:05
Speaker
You started screaming. I would describe his yelling very loudly. Please do not shoot me. Listen to my instructions. I'm trying to do it. Don't talk. Listen. He's crawling towards the police, crying, please, please don't shoot me. The officer shot him five times. Hands straight up in the air. Do not put your hands down for any reason. You think you're going to fall, you better fall on your face. Go towards me.
01:13:36
Speaker
Jesus Christ, they murdered that guy. And he got off. He got off. They killed this guy. I mean, it looks a lot like murder. A cop who killed fired from the force is now getting paid, collecting a taxpayer-funded check every month for the rest of his life. She received a phone call from her eight-year-old school. She tried choking herself while she was at school.
01:13:59
Speaker
and told her friend that she wanted to die. I lost everything in my life. Mesa's watching every single video on here, so I want to make this message very clear to them. I am not going to stop fighting until my husband gets justice. You didn't realize who you were messing with when you killed Daniel Shaver. I am Laney Sweet, I'm his wife, and I will not stop fighting.
01:14:25
Speaker
You just listened to the trailer for the new season of my podcast, Tapes from the Dark Side. The execution of Daniel Shaver is the investigation into the 2016 police shooting of an unarmed man. It's often described as the most disturbing police shooting ever caught on tape.
01:14:42
Speaker
This multi-part series will examine the depravity of the Mesa Police Department's actions that night and the ensuing corruption that is still ongoing to this day. This is Tapes from the Dark Side, the execution of Daniel Shaver. Available now on Apple, Spotify, and all podcast apps. Subscribe today, just search Tapes from the Dark Side.
01:15:10
Speaker
It's love notes for Maggie and Allison. We have...
01:15:19
Speaker
A lot of love to give out this week. We're giving love out to Nancy, one, my neighbor, Andrea, Mandy, two brothers beating, Nadia, body to burial podcast, Michaela, Nicole, Lori, Tiffany, and Sarah for reaching out for it to us on social media or recommending our podcast to others. Yes. Plus,
01:15:44
Speaker
We got what was quite possibly one of the best comments ever on one of our Facebook page posts talking about our merch line that we just launched. When Jerry K said, quote, instead of live models, y'all should have used mannequins. Everybody always thinks it's just a mannequin. I thought that was so good.
01:16:08
Speaker
Yeah, when I read that, I died laughing. I had legit tears falling down my face. We have more love this week going out to all those who are supporting the show, either by purchasing something from our merch. Remember that the deadline is the 12th to get clothing in by Christmas, though you can order any time, but obviously if you're wanting to get yourself a gift or someone else, you need to order by the 12th.
01:16:36
Speaker
or if you're supporting the show on patreon we have got some fun mini episodes coming your way this month plus all of our crazy ones from months past and alison has a super wild full patreon coming to you all as well and it is definitely one that you do not want to miss right if you have not yet joined us on patreon don't forget that your time is running
01:17:01
Speaker
short to do so for only $5 a month. In January, that cost is going up to $8. So join now so you can have that discount for as long as you remain a patron. For that $5, you will get many episodes and a full bonus episode each month.
01:17:20
Speaker
Plus it supports the show, so if you like Maggie and me, we could really use your help. And if they join, right, because I'm dumb sometimes, if they join now, that means they walk in that $5 price for the rest of the time that they're on Patreon. Yes.
01:17:37
Speaker
So now is the time to join. And if you join at a higher tier, so 12, 15, or the $20 level, and you remain there for the months of December, January, and February, then you will get a swag box mailed to you in February. So our swag box number two will be coming to you.
01:17:58
Speaker
The tier that you're in will determine the number of items that you'll receive and our first set of swag boxes for those who were in the higher tiers for September, October, and November are actually on their way and should be to you if you're in one of those and have been for those three months within the week. That's exciting.
01:18:20
Speaker
So please when you get those take pictures and post them on our social media accounts because we want to see you opening those swag boxes because we Allison and I are both givers we love to give so we want to see people enjoying the things that we have given them so be sure to tag coffee and cases in those posts and if you want to get in on the action
01:18:41
Speaker
It is never too late to join patreon just go to patreon.com slash coffee and cases The links to both our merch shop and patreon can be found in the show notes And with that all of our love is going out to each of you until next week sleuth hounds