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Maxim Legg: How Pangea Is Powering the Next Wave of Web3 Builders
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Behind The Blockchain – Maxim Legg (Pangea) Web3 infrastructure | Decentralization | Crypto | Blockchain | DeFi | Founder Story
Ever wondered how decentralized infrastructure is really built? In this episode, Maxim Legg, founder & CEO of Pangea, reveals how his team is reshaping the internet from the ground up — building a faster, fairer, and more resilient world for developers, protocols, and users.
We cover everything from Pangea’s mission to decentralize Web3 infrastructure, to what it takes to build a company from zero, hire great people, and survive the wild world of crypto startups. If you’re interested in Web3, AI, blockchain development, or founder journeys, this episode is packed with insight.
Hit subscribe to stay updated with weekly conversations with the builders and investors shaping the decentralized future.
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Transcript
Introduction and Maxon Legge's Background
00:00:02
Speaker
Max, welcome to the show. how are you? I'm good. Thanks Jack. Good see you. Yeah, you too. You too. Max, for people who don't know who you are, could you give us a bit of an introduction please?
00:00:15
Speaker
Sure. I'm Maxon Legge. I'm the CEO and founder of Pangea. um My background is a technical background. um So come from PhD dropout to working forensics and then into investment banking, where I then got my start in crypto back in 2016.
00:00:34
Speaker
twenty sixteen So I was basically a technical lead, ah head of the innovation lab, basically working on all the new projects.
Founding and Evolution of Pangea
00:00:42
Speaker
And then following that, I worked for a couple of startups, built my own sort of crypto mining pool, um which was was a really great experience. Unfortunately, the chain didn't survive.
00:00:55
Speaker
um And then just started working on on different projects for different companies, some startups, some more corporate ah building, all types of infrastructure, ah doing a lot of operational work like managing nodes, building wallets, building um you all the back end infrastructure to effectively support user experiences.
00:01:18
Speaker
And that's ultimately where Pangaea came from. It's like, how do we actually solve this problem for all the builders in the space and you know allow them to basically deliver to their users. And and I think that the industry is still extremely nascent and we still have a lot of those issues ah in terms of user experience, ah but that is the the core problem.
00:01:39
Speaker
ah that Pangaea is aiming to solve. And yeah, we coined Pangaea a few years back, um started initially with with Bitcoin, went into Ethereum. And then you know today we're we're sort of fairly agnostic as to the chain and even the technology as well, whether it's blockchain or AI. Actually, for us, our core offering is is something that complements all types of resource sharing using blockchain as as that main orchestration layer.
00:02:06
Speaker
Yeah, nice. I was going to ask you if you could introduce us to Pangea in a little bit more detail, if you could. Sure. Yeah. So Pangea is this um super continent of of um sort of Web3 infrastructure oh where we're actually leveraging the benefits of the chain to solve some of the bigger problems out there.
00:02:28
Speaker
So when it comes to protocols or chains, um building applications for end users, there's always some friction there. There's always like um a mix of different technologies that you'd want to, that you could use.
00:02:43
Speaker
And it's up to the chains to really choose those for their protocols.
Pangea's Market Positioning and Performance
00:02:47
Speaker
And then the protocols ultimately 80% of the time are reinventing the wheel, rebuilding all of these technologies basically from scratch because ah the ability to go end to end from the chain all the way through to the end user,
00:03:02
Speaker
is um you know it's it's very technical, but it also is labored with lots of ah speed, performance issues, which ultimately leads to you using a D app and it's slowing down completely. So Pangea, the idea there is that we effectively make that whole process seamless.
00:03:23
Speaker
ah We're using a peer-to-peer network. This is completely decentralized, so no central points of failure, which is one of the big issues you have today. It's resilient network. And the idea is that we can co-locate and stream our data, our services across the network to whoever cares to use it.
00:03:41
Speaker
um And yeah, this ultimately so supports great user experiences from um reading data from the chain within 100 milliseconds. So it's really like in the blink of an eye, really quick and responsive to doing large data visualizations, looking for alpha on the chain, looking at the differences between chains. um So this is ultimately ah how we can service ah those protocols.
00:04:07
Speaker
Nice, nice. yeah There are a few similar ah projects at the moment, a bit of building similar sorts of things to you guys, or do you guys take a bit of more of a but different view to that, like, orchestration layer to others? Sure.
00:04:23
Speaker
Yeah, so so the the market is is ultimately crypto infrastructure, which, you know, as we're seeing traditional finance move it in with all the ETFs, we're also seeing real world assets, stable coins come into the space.
00:04:35
Speaker
Infrastructure is extremely important and using technologies like all the main incumbents, like you have Alchemy, you have the graph, but you also have lots and lots, like you have like hundreds of providers offering different specializations across ah the the different um offerings out there.
00:04:52
Speaker
Now, Pangea is a means of offering this as like a buffet menu. um So when we're looking at the market, We're seeing it as growing because of the influx of of new business coming in.
00:05:05
Speaker
Stablecoins is big business right now. um you know Using Ethereum as as your bank account, you know lots of L2s, bases coming in really bullish on um what they're doing with regards to linking that back to ah central exchange. So we're having that sort of seamless integration come through.
00:05:23
Speaker
um And then we're obviously looking at this sort of white label products that are coming out to support you as a business launching your token as a say real world asset, you now have the full support of of DeFi, you have the support of different money markets and all of the different um global capabilities you have as a business. So if you wanted to start a business, let's say in the UK, um you know, you're limited to that market, more or less, you then have all the different barriers and you're subjected to your sort of foreign policy.
00:05:54
Speaker
But on chain, actually, you don't have those issues anymore. It's more or less, okay, I'll keep the paperwork, but Ultimately, no one's going to stop me from transacting. but So this is like the power of crypto and we see that growing massively.
00:06:07
Speaker
ah To support it with infrastructure, we're seeing you know a lot of cracks appearing with these centralized, more cloud-based infrastructure offerings, whereas Pangaea is working from the ground up. We're working from a decentralized layer first, so all the validators in our network are running our software.
00:06:26
Speaker
and they are coordinating all their resources, effectively, we're using the protocol to orchestrate everyone, to keep the quality of service high, which is something that has traditionally been cost engineered down to, let's say, a poor service or a service that has office hours, right? you We're here to basically build something that's going to be up 100% of the time.
00:06:47
Speaker
It's going to be resilient. And if you wanted all the data in the world, well, you can just ask for it, and and it will be delivered because there is resources there for you. And it's about finding the ability not just to consolidate into one large data center, it's about building a pool of disparate resources that would previously compete with one another to actually work together to build a bigger pie.
00:07:11
Speaker
And that's ultimately what we're doing. you know we're We're sort of um fighting for the small guy, you know punching up um against like the behemoths in the industry. And that's ultimately the philosophy of Pangaea is that you know what can we do to enable our network operators to actually compete and and deliver the highest quality services that ultimately developers want to use.
00:07:33
Speaker
but This is something where I'm building an application, I don't want it to be slow. I don't want it to have downtime. And I want it to be supported on day one ah with all of the nice tools out the box. but And that's ultimately where where we see ourselves.
00:07:46
Speaker
Nice. So rather than so if you're building a protocol, rather than going to like a bunch of different providers for different tools and different things, you guys are building that like one stop shop to enable builders to like build way more easily than they've had the opportunity to before.
00:08:02
Speaker
Yeah. And I think it's more about, you know, making sure that the lowest level, which is in in blockchain, it's it's RPC, which is the standard way to interface with blockchain, just to make sure that that is reliable.
00:08:13
Speaker
Because what we're seeing is all of the builders we work with, they all need to use RPC. They all want to use RPC. They don't want to use anything that's abstracted on top of that. right And that was our business, right streaming really nice index data.
00:08:27
Speaker
you know You can do anything with it you want. But ultimately, if the RPC was an issue and yeah and and for every protocol that's built anything, you know that RPC has always been the issue. It's an issue for the biggest companies in the space. you They spend know tens of thousands a month on infrastructure just to support their you know that killer application, which obviously makes business sense.
00:08:50
Speaker
But it shouldn't be that way because you know if you're starting a new project today and you're building, let's say, on somebody's nice API and that API goes down because of RPC, you see this every day.
00:09:01
Speaker
The trust levels are going to disappear. So if now you're able to secure and and build something that's resilient from the ground up, Adding layers of abstraction on top of that is actually quite easy to do.
00:09:13
Speaker
There's nothing special about indexing the data on top of that if the RPC is solid. Because once you've got solid infrastructure, you can trust anything built on top of it. And if we provide a level of observability and you get that out the box with with decentralized networks, um that will then build the trust that's needed.
00:09:32
Speaker
So whatever needs to be built or hosted on our network can be.
Current Phase and Future Releases at Pangea
00:09:36
Speaker
We just need to orchestrate that. um Behind the scenes, we basically plumb that in. we we We dock it into our super continent and we effectively get people to to to to work together on that um that island. Sounds cool. And how how far down the journey are you? You're in the DevNet phase, right?
00:09:56
Speaker
Yeah, sure. So we actually have product up and running out there at the moment. So we we currently support um Ethereum mainnet base and some of the move chains like Aptos.
00:10:07
Speaker
ah what we are focusing on now is actually pushing all of that, like the goodness that we've built here and building that level of trust from the ground up. So we have to basically offer access to the nodes in order to offer this higher level service.
00:10:23
Speaker
And where we're focusing actually is to fully decentralize where there are standards. So when we have RPC, that's a standard. Anyone can run ah a node and have RPC access.
00:10:34
Speaker
So why don't we run it on our network? And the best thing about that, what we've just proven from our DevNet, which we launched in July, um is that we can beat the performance of running a node locally. So if you had a server running Ethereum mainnet with ref, we can beat the performance of that by accessing our network and pulling those resources together.
00:10:56
Speaker
That's the power of decentralization, to have this high throughput, all-you-can-eat data. And that obviously ah leans into, now I have resilience because I can pull the resources from wherever. So if I just wanted uptime, you that's my focus. Or I wanted to know, where is the latest block being produced? I can subscribe to the whole network.
00:11:16
Speaker
And those those attributes, you know we you don't necessarily have unless you go down a brute force approach. So for us, that whole idea of orchestration ah really solves that ah trust issue from the ground up coordinating resources.
00:11:32
Speaker
And so now DevNet, we've just introduced as of ah last week, we started to bring on other third party providers to start running the network with us as well. This is still in DevNet phase.
00:11:46
Speaker
um And this is proving to be like really nice because we're getting lots of really great feedback, ideas coming through and you know our operators are extremely excited about running and being part of this network because they run RPC services, indexing services, all their customers directly. right They have issues of payments. They have issues of, okay, this customer is too small for us. Do I want to charge them or not?
00:12:09
Speaker
Or this customer is actually like a family office. I want to charge them a lot of money. But it's like, it's a price discovery thing. you know They're now building a business. right They're specialized in building data centers, really offering that but high-end like hosted services.
00:12:23
Speaker
But they have to do a lot of extra stuff on the side, whereas plugging into Pangea gives them distribution and you know a means of accepting payment for the work that they do. So yeah, people are really excited. ah We just hosted our first ah AMA last week, which went well. We'll be publishing that soon. It's recorded.
00:12:42
Speaker
ah and And yeah, like the the nice thing is like the types of use cases we're starting to solve, where we're mixing like the sort of high throughput RPC with indexing together really allows you to ask any type of question from the chain, which previously you'd have to go to a service like Dune or build your own data warehouse on on a cloud service, which obviously can become very expensive.
00:13:07
Speaker
Whereas this ah basically allows you to build in real time. any type of data insights capability you you want to do locally. So yeah, we're really excited about DevNet and there's lots more features going to be released over the next week, ah next few weeks and and and next few months, we'll start to see more more big releases.
00:13:26
Speaker
Okay, nice. Are you able to ah like briefly touch on some of those releases or are they ah industry trade secrets at the moment until they're live? Yeah, sure.
00:13:36
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there's lots of trade secrets, but ultimately, you know, we have published everything we do on our docs uh so you know all the indexing services that we offer as a as like as a cloud um that's all going to be pushed onto our decentralized network so from the end user's perspective it will just be seamless and if they want to upgrade and get the benefits of decentralization they can run a client node on our network and they get the throughput and the benefits that we're talking about in terms of resilience At the moment, we can
Max's Experiences and Lessons in Startups
00:14:07
Speaker
just host a HTTP endpoint, which is compatible with every other um RPC or indexer provider out there.
00:14:14
Speaker
But actually, the benefit comes when you plug into the peer-to-peer network, because that's completely decentralized. There's no central party saying you can or cannot join this service or you can and cannot do something.
00:14:26
Speaker
As long as you adhere to the rules of the protocol, everything's good.
00:14:32
Speaker
Nice. Sounds like since you've got a pretty exciting ah six, 12, 24 months ah coming up. So yeah, keep me keep it posted on how you guys ah how you guys get on.
00:14:44
Speaker
um but that's a super You can say like a super deep dive into to what you guys are doing and the overall overall protocol. I'd quite like to find out a little bit more about ah the people behind the protocol.
00:14:59
Speaker
I've got a few questions for you there, if if if that's okay. sure This might be quite a difficult question to answer. Could you give us a bit of a crash course? It sounds like you know a lot, like obviously you've had a real strong like technical background. i understand you've taken that role as CEO ah now within Pangaea.
00:15:17
Speaker
um Could you give us a bit of a crash course on being a founder, being a CTO, being a CEO and your experience of that over the last few years?
00:15:30
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. it's um yeah it's been a bit a bit of a whirlwind. um Obviously sort of dipped my toe into startups prior to Pangaea. And it was quite fortunate because i but I built a mining pool with one of my current angel investors um and we worked together on that and, you know,
00:15:47
Speaker
it didn't work out. The chain more or less sort of collapsed on itself. But ultimately, you know, we had built that relationship, that bond. And when it came to um sort of presenting the idea of like, hey, we've got this capability.
00:16:01
Speaker
It's not called Pangaea yet. it's It's not called streaming services yet. It's it's just, we're we're we're very capable. We know there's a problem there and we're trying to find it. So basically, and you spend sort of So six to 12 months, sort throwing the spaghetti against the wall, seeing what sticks.
00:16:17
Speaker
and and and And at the same time, we're sort of being coached into what it actually what actually matters, what what actually excites people.
00:16:29
Speaker
Because the narrative of what we're working on in terms of infrastructure was, it was top of the agenda at the time. It's like, OK, you can do stuff in this space, which is great. You've proven this before, which is also like a big plus.
00:16:41
Speaker
ah But who are you actually servicing? Who's your customer? Who is the end user? Why does it matter? Why is it so great for them? and And those types of questions coming from a technical background, it's like your worst nightmare, right? It's like, oh, there's a customer, there's an end user, but I'm building technology. It's fun and interesting to actually, this is this is is a serious business. We actually need to build that traction. we actually need to know our market.
00:17:03
Speaker
um So that was like the first big lesson is actually understanding how to shift focus and how to change your mindset on what really matters as like how you make decisions is like, okay, um are are we going to service the finance industry or are we going to service the NFT industry or actually we're going to do like podcasts? Like what what what is the, um what is that end user problem we're solving and who are they? Can I name them?
00:17:27
Speaker
What do they do every day? What's my ideal customer profile? So now we're starting to go on that journey of um understanding where our business actually fits in. And, you know,
00:17:40
Speaker
early on like you fire it in into check yeah sure if i could interject there um how did you learn to do that is that just trial and error of uh just like trying to figure out that you should probably do this or did you have like mentors to say that you guys should probably think about doing like this discovery first and like was there a process that you went through was it just you happen to stumble across it from trial and error getting it wrong a couple of times and figuring out Sure. I mean, like like I said, you know, it's it's it's you know building the relations relationships up in the industry first and then using like our angel investors to effectively coach us into this position to really sort of narrow us down to something that could actually be sellable, investable.
00:18:24
Speaker
um And that really picked on some of my strengths, which um you know sounds quite naive, but it's just reading and writing. Very, very simple. I really love to write and I think that's the best way for me.
00:18:36
Speaker
Some people like to draw, some people like to know have conversations. I really like to write. And when I write down stuff, my mind opens up and I can really describe the ins and outs of how stuff works and how the market works and who that user is and describe that user. And that's really important. And that's something I learned from you know when I started my PhD was actually you know every day you need to write something.
00:18:58
Speaker
Write about what you read, write what you're doing. Why is that important? and and And that sort of has been with me for a long time. And I'm always writing stuff. I'm always making my notes, always jotting down my ideas.
00:19:10
Speaker
um And to actually turn it from just, hey, I'm just like outputting stuff to i'm actually using this to actually deliver value is you know, it's extremely, extremely satisfying. And like putting those two pieces together, ah didn't really understand how until I actually, you know, dip my toe in the water and, and, and,
00:19:29
Speaker
went to try and build a business and and get, and get funding for it. Okay. Nice. I'm a, I'm definitely a drawer. I think yeah anytime I need to explain to with someone, I'm getting a notepad out and I'll draw it like a scribble of it or a diagram of it or something like this.
00:19:43
Speaker
Um, yeah, it's, it's great. It would be good to publish those things as well. And then you start to think like, ah, if I published it, what would be the response? And then you'd start to draw differently. but So yeah, it's it's the same process as, as like, you know,
00:19:57
Speaker
going to your investors and saying, hey, I've got this great idea. It's like, well, why is it so good? And you're like, ah, let me write down differently how I do it next time. And that that's I think that's probably the the sort of learning experience that you need. You really need to you know jump in and and and figure out for yourself how it actually works.
00:20:14
Speaker
Yeah, have for sure. Are there any... Any of the skills that you think people should ah should look at or anything you really think someone would benefit from um to become a founder or to become a CTO of of a Web3 project? Because I speak to people all the time. It's obviously Web3, super, super entrepreneurial industry.
00:20:34
Speaker
It feels like, maybe it's not everyone, but it feels like everyone I talk to wants to found something for themselves at some point ah in the future where they have ideas or not. you know Everyone has that.
00:20:45
Speaker
Most people I just chat anyway seem to have that kind like spirit about them. um If you like sharing any advice there, like, is there anything that you think people really need to think about or like skills they should develop alongside the ability to be able to, you know, talk through ideas and and really like, uh, go on that, that like product discovery kind of journey. Anything else you think?
00:21:06
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, obviously we encourage anyone to do it I mean, it's, it's definitely, um, satisfying. know, there's lots of surprises. It's, it's good fun. Um, it's hard work of course. Um, but you're never going to start, you know, your founder journey without hard work.
00:21:21
Speaker
right you know it's like oh ah be great to run a business someday like have you tried to run a business do you know how difficult it is so you really need that motivation i think that grit and determination to actually deliver on something you know you get people around you that really put you down and sort of say actually guys you know this this is this is not good what you're doing or uh and you get a mix of opinions and some people love what you're doing right and and it's just finding those right voices to to work with, um to build dialogue, good and bad, right? You know, so some of the best people we talk to are are sort of our biggest critics, right? and And because of that, and we're like, actually, that's a challenge, I can now answer that you know, and and just just just finding that dialogue. So I think networking, talking to people, pitching as well, ah you know, there's a lot of investors out there, you know, a lot of money has been made in Web3 and, you know,
00:22:15
Speaker
to the benefit of these investors, they are reinvesting in Web3 as well. You know, they're investing in new projects to actually build more value, build more infrastructure. And a big focus right now for investors is actually they want to find projects that are touching that end user, that are really building that user engagement because, you know, adoption is like outside of crypto is what's needed right now to make this market keep growing.
00:22:38
Speaker
I think we're going to find that from the sort of traditional finance coming into DeFi, but also, you know, you have lots of the social applications. You know, we had the Farcaster launch, which was like really great idea, had a big hype for about three to six months and it sort of petered off a bit.
00:22:55
Speaker
But the concept's there. You have Lens as well and, and you know, um Base is launching another social app soon. So, you know, you're going to see the rise of these types of social applications. So, you know, looking at the trends in the industry, you're going to be playing with your ideas networking, talking to people about them and seeing actually where you fit in, how you can navigate this industry. And I think just like talking, whether it's drawing or writing or um just pitching to investors, I think is someone, some of the most valuable feedback you'll get because you're going to get people are going to like,
00:23:27
Speaker
say, you know I've had investors fall asleep on calls just because they're so tired. Two investors who are extremely excited. right you know it's it's it's um it is a whirlwind. um It's good fun. and you know And when you get that thesis right um and you know and you have your credentials, ah people will want to actually back you and and sort of underwrite what you're doing. i think that's When you actually get that sort of response will start to get those positive responses and you start responding to people well, um you know, for us, good things happened, right? And and that's um ideally where people want to see themselves is actually, you know, how can I be adaptable? How can I sort of keep growing, keep learning, keep progressing, get the feedback?
00:24:14
Speaker
You know, what we started out with as a thesis is almost like completely changed. There are a few like key principles, but Ultimately, you know, the the actual thing that we've produced is different than what we ever thought we would produce.
00:24:27
Speaker
Right. Because we keep iterating, we keep learning, we keep, you know, ah bringing on feedback, working with users, you know, working with our investors and, you know, really building something which is um what we're trying to and always trying to do is just iterating and building toward more toward the market where we want to be.
Building a Team and Entering Web3 Industry
00:24:47
Speaker
And i think that's like the biggest biggest challenge for any business is to sort of really get and establish themselves into into the new markets, especially in crypto where it's it's all high tech. You have a great solution.
00:25:00
Speaker
Next week, three three other people have a great solution. Now you've got AI, it's like 50 people have a great solution. like How do you compete in this market? right And then this is this is one of those big conundrums people will have all the time. But you know anything you do, you know you're always going to have some unique edge to it. So you know it's all about trying to find like where you can actually fit in and compete.
00:25:21
Speaker
Yeah, nice. Yeah. Thanks for thanks for talking to Stu that. I think there's some really good ah really good points in there. um Investors falling asleep on calls is probably something fairly tricky to deal with that I feel like you don't really have the tools for that unless you've been through it probably. but um it was only one guy and I know he was traveling for quite some time, but yeah, he just didn't want to be on that call.
00:25:47
Speaker
that's crazy. ah So what if um what if people are looking to join the space? Obviously, as a founder, you must have ah and in a few things even before, but but also now in Web3, you must have hired people into your teams, right?
00:26:02
Speaker
um I think there's a lot of people who are interested in getting into crypto and working with blockchain now. um How does someone ah like break into the industry? Like how can someone find an opportunity if they if they really like the idea of building something cool, similar to, you know, say they wanted to get involved in Pangea, for example, like how does someone actually go about finding a job for the first time in Web3? Do you have any advice there?
00:26:32
Speaker
Yeah, sure. I mean, can share some stories, um how we've hired people, you know, it's and and a lot of people are looking for like a dream job or, ah you know, something new and interesting to sort of inspire them, right?
00:26:43
Speaker
And crypto does offer huge opportunities. It's a very technical field. ah It's becoming a little bit more mainstream. people Everybody knows about crypto. Everyone knows Ethereum and Bitcoin, ah but not many people know about any of the other projects. um you know You start trading, maybe you you pick up Solana, right? and And that's your actual your interface to the world. But know um when you're working in the space, it's it's very easy to be in your echo chamber.
00:27:13
Speaker
um and and and that's something and And if you can bring something unique to the table, um whether it's you you have good socials, you you you know you have a good personal profile, ah public profile, um then That goes a long way, especially when when you're looking at someone to basically bring on the team.
00:27:32
Speaker
um you know Having that um ah presence already helps a massive amount, especially in crypto. um Maybe not so much in the web too, because you know ah they have ah marketing is is is like the bread and butter. you know You have all the sort of Steve Jobs, Andy Cunningham style marketing practices.
00:27:55
Speaker
There is not much of that in crypto. um And, you know, bringing something that, you know, can really help the business with their marketing, um just from your personal yeah ah presence um is extremely important.
00:28:12
Speaker
um When it comes to ah getting yourself known, i mean, one of our best hires, we ah met at Hackathon.
00:28:23
Speaker
um it was it was It was quite an amusing story where the where the team was um building. I was one of the mentors on the on the ah the Hackathon. I was invited to be a mentor.
00:28:33
Speaker
um And ah one of the teams was was being mentored by by someone else. And they came to me said, have no idea what to do with these guys. I think they're absolutely crazy. They're trying to build stuff. They've got no idea what crypto is.
00:28:46
Speaker
um Can you just talk to them and give them a little bit of a hint as to what they could do so at least they could win a prize? you know They could maybe maybe get it get get in line for a prize. ah So I went to see these guys, and they were just like talking at me like this. And and straight away, was like, OK, specifically what problem you want to solve? So we sat down, and i was like, these guys are absolute jokers.
00:29:07
Speaker
I just drew on a piece of paper like to answer their question. ah This is a transaction. This is how you build them. And like the guy's like, OK, leave it with me. I'll do this. Anyway, I came back the next morning. They worked overnight.
00:29:19
Speaker
And they built this transaction builder to basically send transactions on Ethereum as part of their sort of ah sort demo finance product they were building. um And the guy said to me, he goes, ah ah so I said, how are you getting on?
00:29:34
Speaker
And he's like, oh, I have this um ah ah transaction. I built it. It's just not working. I'm trying to send it. I don't know. There's like two fields there. Like, why is the value on the transaction and why is the value on the token? I don't understand that. Right.
00:29:49
Speaker
I remember was really well. And i was like, okay, this is what tokens are, right? It's just in the smart contract. And and the transaction is, you know, the value of Ethereum that you're sending. um And as soon as I said that, it was like amazing. Thank you so much. And then I was like, do you need me anymore? And he's like, he's off. He's off coding coding away.
00:30:07
Speaker
um Anyway, it turns out he won ah second prize. um So he did he did really well. um And yeah, and and he messaged me like maybe six months after saying, hey, I've just quit my job.
00:30:19
Speaker
Would love to work with you. So just, yeah. yeah And then, yeah, the rest is sort history. He has been with us for a few years now. so Yeah, it was really great. and And the best thing is, is like know, we're building something interesting and valuable, useful. We're really pushing the bounds of ah computing. so we're like maximizing the throughput of of the CPU, of the bus, of the networking, of the disks.
00:30:46
Speaker
And these are really challenging computer science problems. And when you're building something that has these challenging problems to like ah a really qualified engineer who's most likely earning good money for these big companies.
00:31:00
Speaker
But guess what they're doing? They're building data entry forms. They're building like the most boring, mundane stuff you could ever imagine. Come to Pangaea and literally world is your oyster. You can solve some incredible problems here. So yeah, that's one of the really, really cool stories we had. so Nice. That's cool. It just shows how powerful hackathons can be, right? If you're an engineer.
00:31:24
Speaker
Um, yeah and there's tons that happen right across the industry, like in all sorts of, all sorts of companies are hosting hackathons like all the time. There's hackathons at all the events, there's tons of online hackathons.
00:31:34
Speaker
Um, yeah, if you're an engineer and you're looking to break into the space, it's probably one of the best places to start, I would say to get yourself noticed. Yeah. And and um I mean, just but whether you're an engineer or not, um the best, I mean, for me, the only two things I've seen work is in-person meetups. So in real life, going to the conferences, especially side events. You don't need to pay for the expensive tickets. You can just sign up to side events and you know you're going to be networking with some of the best people in the space.
00:32:06
Speaker
ah And then Telegram. Telegram is like, probably the best business development tool, but only ever talked to people that you've met and in real life or have been recommended or introduced to you with people you actually know. um I've been tricked a few times to sort of be introduced to people, which, you know, you then start seeing like the sort of signs of a scammer. But yeah, those two those two tools, Telegram and in real life meetups, you know, um that's the best way to get involved in anything in Web3 right now.
00:32:34
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. um And even on on some of the bigger ah conferences, yeah i mean I never ah never buy a mean like a main conference ticket ever, really. I think I've been to one ah one main wayne main event.
00:32:51
Speaker
It's not their market anymore.
00:32:55
Speaker
It's a bull market. maybe i shit Maybe I should. No, I just, I think you're right. I think you just find better conversations at the side events. I think people maybe be expect, ah go there expecting to just network, meet cool people and just kind of like see what's see what's going on.
00:33:13
Speaker
um So yeah, I always find the better conversations tend to be there. and But even if you can't get to any of the um like the big conferences and stuff like this, like you'll be surprised at how many ah small meetup groups there are in local areas for people who are super, super enthusiastic about crypto.
00:33:31
Speaker
um i'd get on um I don't know if you look at this at all, but like Crypto Nomads, you heard of the website? Crypto Nomads? Yep. Yeah, I don't use it much, but yeah. Tons of events on there in any city or any location you can possibly imagine, right? And you can get involved in all their communities and stuff. And that's a super good way of of finding like local events and things like this. um but some But yeah, I think all the over the next few years, I think there's going to be more and more more and more opportunity at those in-person events, just purely because of all of the sort of the mass messaging and AI slop that gets sent out through people's inboxes and through LinkedIn and Twitter and this kind of stuff, right? Like people just don't respond to it. So actually getting in front of people.
00:34:19
Speaker
um Yeah, it's true. I would say that um when Farcaster came out, there was like a real buzz about that the podcast the idea of having a social network on chain they were running little hackathons and stuff and i originally got involved i went to a hackathon for for farcaster uh to build some build some of these frames and um straight away i had more followers uh because i never really do socials or i don't do them very well but i had more followers and more engagement on farcaster for the short time i was there than i ever did on twitter which is completely
00:34:55
Speaker
pay to play, you know? So it's like, yeah as you're seeing these new networks and, you know, Lens is going to relaunch, they're going to be competing with bases, um, uh, deploy social app, uh, quite soon. So actually getting in early on these applications as they start working with, or trying to find a way to, uh, interact with these communities on these social networks will will be ah probably one of the best ways to get involved with web free.
00:35:21
Speaker
Uh, if you can't make those in-person events. But yeah, this is definitely, um if you have the time to spend on it, then you know it's definitely it should definitely give you some rewards, especially to begin with, not just airdrop rewards, but in terms of meeting the right people.
00:35:36
Speaker
yeah Yeah, sure. Yeah, you're definitely right. And even if you are still then posting on places like like X and LinkedIn and and some of the more traditional ones, even just don't have to have thousands of followers, but even if you just start posting your thoughts on places like that and trying to offer value to people,
00:35:56
Speaker
to communities and stuff, actually just just getting your voice out there. um Even that kind of stuff can get you noticed, really. It would definitely help. Then say if you apply for something, you send your social links and it goes, the potential employers, potential projects that go across and look, oh, well, over the last six months, you've written nothing but web through this blockchain this talking about this specific problem that you really want to get involved in like it can be really powerful to link the two together it's um yeah and and um um for socials publish uh memes publish videos they tend to get the most amount engagement unfortunately but they do that's true that's true that's true
00:36:36
Speaker
i'm So what about then, say if someone is, say they've landed their first job, ah that guy, he's landed his his first role in k crypto with you guys. How do you then make sure that you build a successful career for yourself if you don't want to found your own project? you want to work for with work with founders to build cool stuff? like How do you build a successful career here? Any any tips on what makes you indispensable?
00:37:01
Speaker
Yeah, sure. I mean, I can definitely empathize, obviously, being a founder um with you know wanting to help other people. It's a muchd be much more fulfilling at times, um especially because when you are the founder, ah the issue is you have to take responsibility for everything and you have to learn how to take responsibility for everything as well.
00:37:21
Speaker
um You can obviously delegate out roles and responsibilities. um But ultimately, it ends with you. And that's that's the the the the biggest issue we have as founders is, you know do I have the time to actually spend and focus and solve all these problems and take responsibility for everything? The answer is no.
00:37:41
Speaker
i need to prioritize. right And finding people that you can work with who can take responsibility and and help you. um in in that way um is probably the most valuable thing.
00:37:53
Speaker
and And that requires like, you know, building a level of trust, being capable, um A lot of people do require, especially in crypto, people who haven't really got the experience in crypto tend to ask a lot of basic questions, um but which is which is okay to begin with.
00:38:10
Speaker
But that learning curve really needs to accelerate quickly because I don't have the time to spend um going through this, teaching you all the low-level details for you to actually deliver value for the business. So actually like taking initiative and and building that level of trust where you can take responsibility for things it's like oh damn i have to get this um um uh presentation sent out um it's like cool leave it with me i'll but i'll do it for you right i know how to write presentations just give me your key points and i'll come back to you in like an hour's time right you do the rest you spend the rest of your day doing focus on your other priorities right so those things like really helpful um and you know especially it comes to
00:38:53
Speaker
ah the engineering side, you know a lot of the devil is in the detail. So being able to communicate effectively is extremely valuable because you know understanding the differences um between how users are actually using the chain and how the, let's say the smart contracts are structured and be able to educate people on the differences. you know What we do a lot of is visualization of that data, um but it's the same for like like how do I actually build the software to do this, um there's there's a slight nuance between two small things, which might mean nothing to you as an engineer at that point.
00:39:29
Speaker
But actually to me, I understand crypto quite well. um i could actually give you a lot of great feedback, um but it's about being able to give like that digestible information, to be able to accept that feedback and you know and and that iteration, that rapport building, that trust building, and and then that level of responsibility that you can take willing will increase ah massively.
00:39:52
Speaker
um But yeah, like for for for me, it's it's more about, you know, finding people who can save time, not necessarily do a specific role. Like, okay, i'm I'm really good at doing spreadsheets. Like that's good for you.
00:40:03
Speaker
But ah you are you good at taking responsibility for what goes into them and and delivering them? Like what's the end, who's the end user of that? Is it me or is it someone else? Is it external? um You know, and and just ah really being ah more conscious about your role and what you're producing, um you know, is really goes a long way. And that, you know, having like great people around us, you know, we've been able to build a really good team.
00:40:28
Speaker
um Having those great people who actually know what you need and know that they can take initiative and do things and come back and report and, know, give valuable information. For me, I can then go into my next meeting and um boast about the next set of features that we have.
00:40:44
Speaker
i've i've I've not seen those features. i those things But because I've got that level of trust, I know we've delivered they said they've delivered it. I know they've delivered it. um And they've given me a picture that says this can only be of done only have been done if they've done the work and the research and put the effort in.
00:40:59
Speaker
And they've already got social proof. It's on socials. right And so all of these things start to fit together, um which is which is really nice.
Challenges in the Crypto Industry
00:41:06
Speaker
So yeah, like take responsibility if you can and um build so trust.
00:41:11
Speaker
Build trust early. So how do you find those people? Cause that's quite tricky, right? Yeah. I mean, obviously we, we, we, uh, use recruiters, um, for some people we obviously meet people in real life.
00:41:26
Speaker
Uh, and you know, we meet people on Twitter now as well. So we start to engage with people on Twitter, local meetups. Um, we, um yeah, just use a a different, um, set of mediums.
00:41:42
Speaker
to find people. And usually, like you you know you're talking about something interesting or you're working on something interesting and you start to talk about it, ah there's always going to be someone who's interested. So it's just about trying to find those people who are actually capable and looking for work.
00:41:58
Speaker
Maybe they already have work and they're not necessarily looking, they just would like a better opportunity as and when it comes. um Or they want to s sink their teeth into, let's say, the next big problem in AI. um you know which we believe we we have some great solutions for.
00:42:13
Speaker
We're just looking some incredible engineers who want to work with us. right you know And and that's we're in no rush to do that. right It'd be great to hire now, but you don't want to hire the wrong person. so you know it's it's it's, again, about building that relationship.
00:42:27
Speaker
um And if we can go via you know um a good headhunter who's been able to filter ah candidates correctly and and really picks upon the right fit in terms of what we do, our values, um you know that saves us a huge amount of time.
00:42:43
Speaker
And you know you guys you guys can charge a lot of money for it as well. So I hope you guys. We expect you to do that type we expect you to do that type of work. um ah But yeah, if you if you find the right person at the right time, you know that's that's extremely valuable.
00:42:58
Speaker
um But yeah, like as many mediums as possible would be, um like for us, like the best way to find good people. yeah Yeah, that makes sense.
00:43:09
Speaker
That makes sense. And say if you found those people from outside of Web3, as you mentioned, like the an AI engineer, for example, hasn't worked in blockchain, hasn't worked with crypto or anything like this before, coming to and in to work with you guys to work on um the problem that you guys are solving.
00:43:26
Speaker
Is there anything that you think that person should be aware of about the industry before they join it? the learning curve is going to be tough. um let's That's your biggest issue is the learning curve.
00:43:38
Speaker
You just sort of have to believe in a way. um But, you know, the whole industry is built on its own self-belief. And there are fruitions coming, right? You know, it is getting some adoption outside of crypto.
00:43:49
Speaker
Like the ETFs, people want exposure to crypto. It's this global asset. You know, treasuries want to be built around this stuff. um The capabilities of crypto building state machines or like let's say some contract between the two of us, we can build that on chain without even know knowing each other and we can trust each other.
00:44:08
Speaker
ah The concepts behind this are quite intricate. um One of the negative sides of the industry is, you know, there's a lot of marketing. there's a huge And it's probably not the best type of marketing, right? You know, there there's ah there's a lot of people in the world and blockchain is servicing or can service everyone.
00:44:28
Speaker
A lot of people are just in there for incentives for airdrops, right? So you're going to get a lot of marketing around that. And if you if you don't pay to play, no one's going to notice who you are either. So this is like another necessary evil that you have to deal with.
00:44:41
Speaker
um And it's just something that you will see. you know There's a new project, new token, new chain. you know You really have to do your due diligence. You really have to understand like what is the core value offering of these services that are being built? Why is it so great? Why does it even need to be on chain?
00:44:57
Speaker
yeah We speak with a lot of projects. um A lot of them develop, let's say, a decentralized exchange, and they build it directly on chain. Now what we're seeing is actually people are building chain, but settling to chain.
00:45:12
Speaker
right and And it seems to be like they want to abstract themselves from the problems of the chain. So it's basically like you know you sort of have to trust them. But there is that sort of middleware where it's like you know it's not necessarily decentralized,
00:45:24
Speaker
but it sort of is in a way. um It's right. They're using the chain for what it's good at, which is settlement, but they're not really using it
Blockchain's Potential and Future Outlook
00:45:35
Speaker
transactionally. So you you know you have all of these new technologies coming out to try and facilitate some of this, like ah this sort of different types of sequencer design. So this is like the ordering of transactions. If you can decentralize that and make it fast and make it resistant to say like a toxic flow,
00:45:52
Speaker
um that would enable so many things. But that's one of the current big issues you have in this industry right now. Maybe there is work in zero knowledge that will help solve this problem.
00:46:04
Speaker
But again, this is like, you know, once you go down the rabbit hole and you start to see all these different technologies, there is a reason why people are building them. And some of them, people may just give up and say, look, I'm just going to launch this thing, whether people like it or not.
00:46:18
Speaker
um Or, you know, <unk> we're just going to market this token, we're going pump and dump, which you know is is one of the common um ah patterns that you have with with launching new tokens.
00:46:31
Speaker
But on the flip side, that actually builds a treasury. but So you have to be very careful as to what the token chart tells you about the project and whether there's longevity in that project as well.
00:46:43
Speaker
um So you know you have to be very aware. um But you know the the positive side, of the technology is, and and specifically what we're using it for is to orchestrate resources.
00:46:55
Speaker
um and And that orchestration, you know, can only be achieved amongst people who do not trust each other using cryptography and blockchains are the best way to sort of, you know, to to share that.
00:47:08
Speaker
ah And then on the other side, you know, um making something that is, let's say, counter to cloud, to central points of control, whether it's in finance or whether it's services. So obviously the whole point of Bitcoin, it you know, it was really a protest against, you know, printing of more dollars, printing of more pounds, right?
00:47:33
Speaker
And and that that was like a, I mean, it's it's a huge issue. know, in the last 20 years, you've seen the chart, you know One pound 20 years ago is now worth 50 cents or 50p. It's absolutely crazy what's what's happening with our financial system.
00:47:47
Speaker
And crypto is that sort of libertarian means of trying to solve the problem. In the same way we look at infrastructure, it's like actually all of these cloud-based services, they're consolidating. They're going to be putting their prices up. They're going to be dropping their quality of service.
00:48:01
Speaker
And Pangea is looking at it and saying, hold on a minute. Why we decentralize those resources? enable our node operators to do the same thing at a fraction of the cost, make it resilient, make it high throughput. And the goal is to keep increasing quality, never reduce quality.
00:48:16
Speaker
And that's like, you know, um our protest against these these cloud services. I think it's important as well for people to understand how passionate people are in this industry.
00:48:29
Speaker
um You know, say if you work in like traditional Web2, people might be passionate about certain fintech products and stuff, but they're not they don't necessarily like live, eat and breathe every new fintech business that's being launched or things coming out, that kind of thing. Whereas when you come across into crypto, most people could say, oh, this is launching next week. This launched last week. This launch went well. that didn't This tool does this. This tool does that. like Even people who aren't necessarily technical can talk.
00:48:58
Speaker
to on the technical side of things to some degree. So I think it's super important for people to be aware of like how passionate people actually are in this industry. And as you mentioned about that, the learning curve and how steep it will be, if you don't keep up with that, you can get overtaken quite quickly by people who are just way more interested in it than you might be.
00:49:19
Speaker
i That's quite different, I think, to any other industry that I've ever recruited into anyway. Yeah, I mean, i mean today, i mean a lot of the focus is on what we call mass adoption, is like the road to the first billion users.
00:49:32
Speaker
um and All of the focus right now is on how do we get that in this industry? Whether whether people want it or not, we're going to give it to them. right That's like the the mentality of of the industry right now. But but no, like for for me, like you know the the like what is the problem you're trying to solve?
00:49:49
Speaker
and And blockchain solves the problem of trust. like Two people can trade with each other. um What if they don't trust each other? What if they're at war pointing guns to each other's heads? They can still trade quite freely. Blockchain doesn't stop them. It enables them, right? You know, once you put tariffs in place, different types of restrictions, you know, you sort of break down economies, whereas,
00:50:11
Speaker
you can still pay in Bitcoin. It's not a problem. um So, you know, it it does enable um a lot of people. um And those types of problems is really worth trying to understand, like, why are we solving these problems?
00:50:27
Speaker
Decentralized compute is another one. Whereas, like, you know, you're seeing with AI, like, these data centers are growing, like, huge. Like, that they're basically buying... data centers next to power stations. So the power station's exclusive right is to basically service the electricity needs of that data center, to basically power all the GPUs it has, to basically power your your training and inference.
00:50:47
Speaker
um So how do you compete with that? Well, blockchain actually has ah has a solution. And this is like, again, um I won't show myself too much, but if you can effectively ah pool all of the resources, like the disparate resources, the latent compute, if you can pull those together at the right time in the right place, you know, electricity is produced everywhere in the world, in different parts of the world, whether it's underutilized or not, um you can tap into that through, you know, the trusted network of of of blockchain technology.
00:51:19
Speaker
um And that is ultimately, know, whether we're doing this for RPC indexing or AI inference, um you know, that is, what blockchains are designed for, right? It's not just financial transactions. It's not just meme coins.
00:51:35
Speaker
Um, but it's like building real, really valuable utility networks where people actually have to adhere to the rules of the protocol. Otherwise there is an incentive that would say, look, we're going to slash you if you don't provide the correct resources at the right time, as you said you would do.
00:51:51
Speaker
Um, you know, so it is, it is quite a powerful technology. Um, and yeah, like, you know, Ethereum is used to trade um dollars all over the world.
00:52:02
Speaker
Like, you know, the launch of stable coins now, like, you know, one of the, you know, the biggest buyers of US s treasury bills are stable coin companies, right? You know, it's it's pretty huge.
00:52:14
Speaker
And that use case isn't going to go away. And, you know, and the US has obviously picked up on that. You know, the new admin has basically looked at this and said, well, hold on minute. They're actually buying treasury bills, which is there are one of our, that could but potentially be one of our biggest customers.
00:52:29
Speaker
um you know And they want to encourage that. So you know that you're going to see these regulations change. um So obviously, DeFi, I think, is definitely going to overtake the majority of transactions in the world um in the next sort five to 10 years. That's definitely for sure.
00:52:44
Speaker
And we need the infrastructure to support it as well. So um yeah, just trying to find out where where those key problems are that but blockchain actually solves. And instead of like saying, hey, where's my mass adoption application? right I'm going force feed you this mass adoption.
00:53:01
Speaker
then that's not yeah yeah Yeah, you're right. Max, over the last 50 minutes or so, you've shared a lot of insight actually into Pangea and what you guys are building, your background, obviously some great advice ah for people looking to to get into the space or people who are already here.
00:53:19
Speaker
One question I'd like to ask everyone is, Know what you know now about web three, about leadership, shit about ah building teams, building technology, whatever it might be.
00:53:32
Speaker
Is there any final words of advice that you'd like to leave us with?
00:53:39
Speaker
really I think I've given all my advice, um but yeah, like get yourself a therapist. That's probably the best piece of advice that's given.
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:53:47
Speaker
like Love that.
00:53:50
Speaker
Love that. Well, Max, ah yeah, appreciate you taking the time ah to have the conversation with us today. and Thank you very much for for doing that. and If people want to find out more about about you, about Pangea, where's the best place they should be going?
00:54:08
Speaker
Sure, you can find me on X. My handle is MaximLeg. For Pangea, you can we're called in underscore Pangea on on X as well. Our website is pangea.foundation.
00:54:20
Speaker
um And if you'd like to get involved, there's a link there for Discord. um So click that, join the Discord, accept the invite, and and just let you make yourself known to the team.
00:54:31
Speaker
ah We're doing a lot of stuff on data analysis. We're doing a lot of stuff, especially on building out our sort validator network. um And yeah, like lots of alpha is going to be happening on Discord. So um it's probably worth being there if you can.
00:54:45
Speaker
Sounds great. Go and check it out. Well, Max, thanks for your time. I'll chat you soon. Thank you, Jack. Take care.