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E196: True Horrors of Online Whispers
4.8k Plays1 year ago
It’s scary to think how much of our lives that we share on social media can be used against us, despite our best intentions. In this week’s episode, we explore one young woman’s story that nearly ended in tragedy.
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Transcript
Is the world more negative today?
00:00:00
Speaker
I sometimes wonder if the world were as angry, as condescending, as quick to judge, to mock, and to tear down when I was younger as it seems now. And maybe I was just naive to those things. Or if things have truly changed for the worse in those regards.
00:00:23
Speaker
I think about how today, if someone doesn't like something for some small reason, sometimes not even legitimate, they don't just move on or try something else, but feel the need to dramatize and exaggerate while shouting their negativity from the metaphorical rooftops. Then it hit me. The reason why things may have changed and it's increased anonymity.
The dangers of online anonymity
00:00:54
Speaker
When there's no face to go along with a negative comment, people can say whatever they want without the corresponding negative attention turning back on the speaker. People who wouldn't normally speak out with hate are empowered by the mask of an online persona.
00:01:15
Speaker
It's dangerous to feel invincible and to pay no heed to social mores, to never be asked to feel empathy, nor to sit back and think through a reaction, but instead to always react with a gut punch, immediate and very public response.
00:01:38
Speaker
It's also dangerous on the flip side. The times when someone believes they are anonymous and therefore protected, but either they reveal their true identity or they take action that removes the protective bubble.
Purpose of the episode: Social Media App Dangers
00:01:56
Speaker
It happens when a young teen is chatting online with someone they believe is also a teen, bemoaning their life's woes and the like, only to be sharing intimate information and personal details with what turns out to be an online predator. At the same time, there are positives of an online culture of connection.
00:02:19
Speaker
There are also the dangers. Someone stealing an identity. Another person being stalked. Another being trafficked. It's hard enough to keep ourselves safe as adults, let alone to know what in the world our kids are up to online. Particularly when there seems to be a new, worrisome social media outlet or app at every turn.
00:02:44
Speaker
and that's why we're here today. We want to share with you one of those social media apps and something that happened to one girl based on the activity of users on that app, even in a small town, even when she thought she was safe, even when she wasn't a user of the app herself. This is Taylor's story.
Meet the hosts: Allison Williams and Maggie Dameron
00:03:24
Speaker
Oh.
00:03:44
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement. So justice and closure can be brought to these families.
00:04:03
Speaker
With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week. So Maggie, our episode this week is a little bit different.
00:04:25
Speaker
than normal. But I thought that our listeners, most of whom are loving parents, soon to be parents.
00:04:35
Speaker
Ahem, Maggie. Aunts, uncles, cousins, friends.
A unique case of an almost victim
00:04:40
Speaker
I thought you'll be shocked by the story that you're about to hear. And I say this week is different, really because of two major reasons. First, our case this week, it doesn't cover someone who is missing or murdered, but it's the story of someone who almost
00:05:01
Speaker
suffered one of those fates, had someone not reported what they saw. And number two, rather than me telling you Maggie about the case and you sleuth hounds with bits of the interview I conducted interspersed, we'll kind of talk here at the beginning.
The importance of sharing stories for protection
00:05:21
Speaker
We'll hear Taylor's story.
00:05:23
Speaker
And then we'll kind of come back to discuss and share some other stories that are related to this particular app. And I am so grateful that Taylor felt called to post about her experience online, which is where I read about it on Facebook. And I reached out to her because when I saw her post and then later when I spoke to her and I heard her story, I felt compelled myself to share.
00:05:53
Speaker
even if just to potentially protect someone else out there or their kids. Because the world is a very scary place. Yeah. And sometimes it's not bad to have a little bit of spice in the episodes. And I think this is a really important topic. Yes.
Exploring the Whisper app
00:06:13
Speaker
And when we come up on topics like this that could potentially protect people out there, I do feel like it's really
00:06:22
Speaker
important to share those. And it does scare me as the parent of a teen myself, you know, what is my child looking at online? What dangers are out there? What is what is my child sharing that maybe she shouldn't?
00:06:42
Speaker
It's terrifying. Or that she could think is innocent and it's really not. Right. Or she could think she's talking to someone her age and that person's not. So the specific app that we're going to be talking about in today's episode, it is called Whisper. And I had never heard of this app before. Yeah, I haven't either. And I don't really know its purpose.
00:07:09
Speaker
Well, I'll tell you about that. And when I tell you how many people use it, you'll be like, how have I never heard of this app? So just so you know, for people out there, if you're now searching your kid's phone, if you're like, hand it over, let me take a look at it. The icon is purple with a white W in it. And in a way, it's almost a combination between Instagram and Facebook.
00:07:39
Speaker
where those on this app, they post an image with a text layer on top, like a meme. Okay, so it's just for posting pictures? Pictures with words on the picture, like a meme. You know, because you'll have the picture, but you've got like the funny words on top of it. But this, on this app, the image can be of anything. So it could be something random.
00:08:08
Speaker
ice cream cone, a pair of jeans, whatever, or it could be an actual image of the person who's posting. So the image can be of anything, but the text is supposed to be a statement about yourself that you might be scared to share with others in real life.
Whisper's unintended outcomes
00:08:33
Speaker
Okay, so then I get the name Whisper then because it's Secrets. Yeah, and it's funny you said that because that's exactly what they call their posts. The posts on this app are called quote unquote Secrets. The creator of the app stated that he designed it with a very positive intent.
00:09:00
Speaker
So he said he did it for users to have, quote, real thoughts and feelings, forge relationships and engage in conversations on an endless variety of topics without identities or profiles, end quote. OK, so that was going to be my next question then. So like it would not say.
00:09:20
Speaker
Alison Williams, all the things you have posted would be on there. They're just random, no name posts. Yes. You would get, from what I understand, I didn't sign up for the app myself, but from everything I read about it, you would get assigned just a random alphanumeric profile. Banana, one, two, three. Right, something, yes. And that would then be your,
00:09:48
Speaker
your quote unquote identity, but it's in no way linked to your, your name. And so he's thinking, I suppose that, you know, this idea that whenever we talk to people that we're always kind of putting on a facade and that this is an opportunity to be your true authentic self.
Privacy concerns with Whisper
00:10:08
Speaker
And again, it seems as though the intent were truly for connection because
00:10:17
Speaker
The co-founder, Michael Hayward, the one who gave that previous description, he also told a group of Fortune brainstorm conference attendees about the app. He said, quote, there's an excessive inventory of loneliness, a kid crying at night afraid to come out of the closet to his parents.
00:10:38
Speaker
soldiers from Afghanistan with PTSD afraid of fireworks, a kid in college that never kissed a girl. I wanted to create a place that can show them they're not alone." End quote. But you know, I think a lot of things that we do in life, well, I won't say a lot, some of the things we do in life start with good intentions, but they don't always
00:11:06
Speaker
end with good intentions. And I feel like that's so true in the world of social media. Yes. Facebook started as a way for you to connect with friends. And that is a good thing. We're family. But look at how far that's gone now. Right.
00:11:23
Speaker
Right. And people blocking other people. And I agree. And being mean and just bullies. Right. Well, yeah. I mean, you think about cyberbullying, right? All of the positives with the Internet and with connection. But then there's also that dark side. And this app, even with those positive intentions,
00:11:43
Speaker
many people can immediately see the negative because why encourage people to connect with someone without an identity rather than with a friend in the same school or office where you work, like a tangible person who can hold you when you're crying and give you that hug, who can attend your baby shower, who can help you figure out how to seek counseling if you're going through something tough.
00:12:13
Speaker
Right. But at the same time, and this is why I said it was shocking that I had never heard of this app. I have to admit that I must be in the minority in agreeing with the dissenters because the app, at least at one point in the height of its popularity, Maggie, had around 30 million monthly users. 30 million. Well, I live under a rock because I've never heard of it. I had never heard of it either. Yeah.
00:12:43
Speaker
Maybe we were too old. The only requirement for downloading this app is that you had to be at least 17 years old. Though, who is really going to... Okay, that's easy to lie. Exactly. Yeah, they're going to say your birthday. They changed the year, right? That's all you've got it done. Right. I was born in 2000 instead of whatever year they were born. And all else on this app,
00:13:12
Speaker
is supposed to be anonymous because after all you know that's the point of the app is feeling like this is a safe space to share intimate details about yourself.
Taylor's real-world danger from Whisper
00:13:25
Speaker
The app wasn't completely anonymous though Maggie because it also collected your geolocation and had access to your phone's camera. So on the app
00:13:42
Speaker
You could browse by popular posts because you could like and comment on them the same way you can kind of do on Facebook or Instagram. So you could just browse what's popular that's being posted. You could browse by the most recent secrets that are posted or you could search by nearby posts.
00:14:08
Speaker
Oh, so then like if you're posting an actual picture of yourself because the picture can be anything, then potentially my neighbor could see. Oh, that's Maggie. Even though they're not supposed to be able to do that. Right. Because it does collect your geolocation.
00:14:28
Speaker
So, you know, when you're equipped with somebody's geolocation and a deep, dark secret, you can see how this particular app can get pretty dangerous pretty quickly if it fell into the wrong hands. But Taylor, whose story we're about to hear, she wasn't even on the app herself. Instead, someone else was posting about her.
00:14:57
Speaker
posting details that put her in very real danger. So here is my interview with Taylor, where she tells what happened, the horrifying what ifs, and her life in the aftermath. Hello. Hi, Taylor. How are you? Good. Thank you so much for agreeing to talk to me.
00:15:27
Speaker
Oh, you're welcome. I read your story on Facebook and I thought, oh my gosh, because, you know, I have a true crime podcast and we talk about a lot of other true crime, like, you know, missing people, unsolved murder cases and things like that. But what you experienced is absolutely true crime. Right. And I feel like if people heard about it, then they're much more aware. And so that can be really beneficial.
00:15:54
Speaker
Absolutely. I didn't think something like that would happen in small little... Right. Okay. So first, can you just kind of walk the listeners through what happened to you on that day of your life that could have turned out very differently, including kind of what you were feeling and thinking along the way?
00:16:17
Speaker
So basically it was just a normal day for me. I was an assistant manager at a restaurant and it was my night to work closing shift.
00:16:28
Speaker
And I had set at a back booth and was gonna just eat my dinner real quick. I mean, I was nine months pregnant, I was always hangry. So I set at this back booth and the hostess came up to me and she was like, Taylor, there's two cops here, they're looking for you. And I was like, haha, whatever. And she was like, no, really. So I go up there and they've got a phone and it's a picture of me. And they were like, are you Taylor?
00:16:59
Speaker
And I was like, um, yes. And they said, well, why don't you step outside with me? Well, at this point, I mean, what is going through your head? It's terrified. Like what, what's happened? Like is my husband hurt? Like something's wrong. So the question that came out of the cop's mouth, I never in a million years dreamed of it. He said, this is, are you aware that you were supposed to be kidnapped at 6 PM tonight? Oh my gosh.
00:17:31
Speaker
Is this some type of sick joke? Like, are there cameras somewhere? Right. And he said, no ma'am. So he basically, the cop kinda, I guess he had to kind of play devil's advocate a little bit. So he was like, so does your boyfriend have like a, like a weird sense of humor? And I was like, I don't have a boyfriend. Like I'm married. I've been married since.
00:18:00
Speaker
And he said, okay, so would your husband want to kidnap you? Oh my gosh. What kind of question is that? He wanted to kidnap me. I mean, I'll be home at. Right. And he went on to tell me that there's this app called Whisper.
00:18:21
Speaker
And someone, I don't know who, we still haven't found out, they posted me on a website. It was a picture of me and it said, if you have morals, do not click on this ad. Well, someone clicked on the ad because they thought it was gay sexual favors. So when this person found out that it had something to do with kidnapping a pregnant woman,
00:18:47
Speaker
he contacted the police department to let them know. Wow. So the police tried to work with the guy that commented back to that ad because they were going to try to set it up like the guy got me and he was going to take me to the person that wanted me, but it was going to be the police that showed up. Okay. Um, but they ended up losing all contact with them. Um,
00:19:16
Speaker
little bit about it. He knew where I worked. He knew my whole schedule. He knew who was delivering my baby. They knew what I drove, my license plate number. They knew everything down to the decals that I had on my vehicle, where I parked my car.
00:19:40
Speaker
They said at the door that I would be coming out of, it would be easily for them to grab me from behind and throw me in the car. They had it planned down to a T.
00:19:52
Speaker
Because in my head I was thinking, okay, well, some of these things that you're mentioning, you think, okay, maybe it's just an internet hacker so they could get your medical records or they could get DMV or something like that. But then, you know, those details about the decals that are on your car or which door you would be coming out of makes it sound like there was a physical person who had been stalking you.
00:20:18
Speaker
Right, right. I mean, this person, they got, I'm assuming they got a picture off of social media because it was one that I had posted earlier that day. I think I had like my 36 week appointment that day.
00:20:33
Speaker
And they had that picture and that's the one that they were using for like their ad to kidnap me.
The aftermath for Taylor
00:20:41
Speaker
They knew how far along I was. They knew that if they were to cut me open and take the baby out, he would most likely survive because he was almost full term. They had said that when whoever picked me up, they wanted to meet at the shooting range.
00:21:00
Speaker
is what they had where they wanted to meet me, wanted someone to bring to me. So, I mean, they knew quite a bit of details.
00:21:12
Speaker
And it's eerie to me that the cops never found anything out. Right. Wow. You know, we talk a lot on the show about, you know, different things that people do, especially with with social media or or even just information that we casually share without even thinking about what additional information it gives. Like we've mentioned bumper stickers on a car, for example, if somebody says
00:21:40
Speaker
Um, you know, I'm proud that my husband is a truck driver. Well then people know that this woman is at home. Yep. Yep. So they'll, they'll know information like that. You know, and without even realizing it or even on Facebook, I mean, you wouldn't think.
00:21:59
Speaker
A lot of times we think of Facebook like this is a way to share information with family and friends quickly. Like you are just innocently sharing your 36 week appointment and yet here's some person out there who is able to somehow get to your webpage, your Facebook page and use that information against you. I know and one thing we think it's someone that
00:22:27
Speaker
knew me pretty well because when they were texting this other guy that they wanted to come and kidnap me, they said, I'm friends with the midwife's... with the midwife's... So I mean, they knew a lot of information.
00:22:44
Speaker
So the cops interrogated everyone that I worked with. They looked through their phones. I honestly didn't think it was anyone that I worked with just because I guess I'm a little naive anyway. It's like you just don't think something like that's going to happen. But they never did find anything out.
00:23:07
Speaker
It has made me be aware more of my surroundings. I don't really go out with my kids very much. If I have to go to the grocery store, I would rather leave them home with my husband or my parents just so I don't have to take them with me. But it hasn't stopped me from living my everyday life. I've told myself that I could not live in fear.
00:23:32
Speaker
I know God protected me for a reason that day. He protected my son for a reason. And I feel like maybe he was using me to open other people's eyes. When even just sharing, you know what happened to you.
00:23:49
Speaker
I've been silent about this for a while because my parents, you know how parents are, they were distraught when all this happened and they just kind of wanted to wipe it under the rug like nothing ever happened. But for me, somebody that had to hold that in forever,
00:24:10
Speaker
it did more harm to me than good. So when I shared that post the other day, my parents didn't know I was gonna share that. I felt led to post that. Because you do, you share all these crazy things that are happening in the world these days. And I wanted people to know that even though we live in a small town community, things like that still do happen. Right. Yeah, location doesn't protect you.
00:24:36
Speaker
Yeah, yes. Wow, had so had you ever heard of this whisper app before or? No ma'am, I didn't even know it was a thing. I know I've never been out of high school since. Right, I ever remember that being a being an app, but apparently it's it's ran out of California and they don't have to respond to open records requests, so that's why the police.
00:25:05
Speaker
weren't able to get any information. They couldn't get that app to correspond with them. Wow. Yeah, so it's kind of scary that our kids have access to an app like that. Yeah, that's very scary. And you know, I keep thinking,
00:25:25
Speaker
you are a braver person than I am because I know that had to be so terrifying especially in that time well until you had your child especially thinking at every turn what's going to happen to me and then you know right after he's born the same thing thinking okay are they going to come after me these same people I mean because
00:25:52
Speaker
gosh, I'm sure worst case scenario was going through your mind because if their intent was to take your child, then what would have become of you? Well, we installed indoor, outdoor camera system. We've got an alarm system now. So we've taken steps to kind of
00:26:18
Speaker
I don't know, prevent it, maybe. All my neighbors are aware of the situation. Anytime a car comes into our side of the street, they're like, does anybody know who this is? So we're all watching out for each other, too. That's good. But it's definitely a parent's worst nightmare. I didn't dream of how much it impacted my mom and dad until my little boy was born. And I wanted to guard him with my life.
00:26:49
Speaker
So, and now I have two kiddos. Well, and you know, just the reason I said you're a braver person than I am is, you know, when you said that you tried not to let it change your everyday life and how difficult that is. It is. Like I told you, I was an assistant manager at a restaurant here in
00:27:18
Speaker
and I did change my career path just because for one, I didn't want to do that forever anyway. But it did make me think that what if it was a local customer that came in a lot? So shortly after all that happened, I did change career paths and I'm somewhere else now. I love what I do.
00:27:43
Speaker
My boss is amazing. I needed a change and I think I'm more safe where I'm at. But anywhere you go, anything could happen.
00:27:57
Speaker
I feel like it would make you, and this is so sad because I'm an educator. So I want to trust and believe in the potential in everyone and the good in everyone. And I know that you're the same. And so to think after something like this, you would begin to kind of doubt everybody's true intentions.
00:28:21
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. It takes a lot for me to let someone watch my kids just because I'm afraid what could happen. Right. Which, I mean, anything can happen whether I'm with them or not. But something deep down, I guess you just feel like they're safer when they're with mama. Mm-hmm.
00:28:47
Speaker
But we do, we have a wonderful babysitter. She's been in the home sitter. I trust her more than anything. I know she would always keep my baby safe. But I did, when I announced that I was pregnant with my daughter, a lot of people were like, you're seriously gonna try that again?
Motives behind the kidnapping plot
00:29:09
Speaker
I mean, I still have to live my life. But I will protect my kids at all.
00:29:18
Speaker
So they weren't able to figure out who did this, but were they able to figure out what is in it for the person who posted you on there? Like were they going to get money? Were they going to get? They offered $5,000 for mother and baby to be kidnapped. Wow.
00:29:40
Speaker
I'm kind of sad that that's all they thought we were worth. Right, right. Not that this is anything funny, but you know. I just I don't I can't wrap my mind around it. I really can't. Her offering was $5000 to whoever could bring me to them.
00:30:03
Speaker
It just really stinks that we still don't know who it was. I mean, they could be living in my neighborhood. They could be someone that I interact with every single day. I just never know. Wow. And then I think my final question is, what message do you have for others out there who might be listening?
00:30:30
Speaker
My message for anyone that's listening would definitely be, you can't live your life in fear, but you definitely need to be careful of who you trust, what you post on social media. Basically, everybody's not who you think they are.
00:30:51
Speaker
I just recommend everyone to be safe, keep their head on a swivel at all times and make sure everybody's got the right intentions with people that they come around. So Maggie, obviously I had read Taylor's story on Facebook. I had seen it and she felt
00:31:14
Speaker
called to tell it. And when I saw it, I thought, okay, this is something that deserves a larger stage. And people need to know about because how terrifying was that experience? Well, especially because Taylor was pregnant at the time and I'm pregnant now and now I feel like I
00:31:38
Speaker
could never leave my home. She's much braver than I, because I would not be ever going out ever again. But how far in the, was this recent?
Privacy breaches and risks in apps like Whisper
00:31:48
Speaker
Was this like several years ago? Yeah, it happened to her several years ago. And she said her parents really at first, didn't want her to share about it. Because what if those people were out there? What if they were
00:32:02
Speaker
you know, angry that she's talking about it. Or what if that put her in more danger? But she finally decided, you know what, people need to know what I experienced because maybe it'll save somebody. Yeah. And I think what the, one of the creepiest things is, you know, people create fake
00:32:26
Speaker
social media profiles all the time. Like, you know, you'll get the random friend request from somebody that lives in Greece and you have no mutual friends. Right. Clearly it is like a fake. Right. But what's creepy in this instance is she wasn't even a user of this app, but yet her picture ended up on the app with intimate details about her. Right.
00:32:52
Speaker
Like she said, I feel like it would have to be someone that was in and out of her life pretty frequently. Like she said, maybe someone at the restaurant that she worked at that frequented there. I mean, it had to be, because how else are they going to know? Oh, she comes out of this door, she drives this car.
00:33:13
Speaker
That's what's scary is because, okay, someone could, like you were just saying, somebody could hack her Facebook profile. How sad is it that she would feel though, like she has to monitor sharing about her exciting pregnancy journey because somebody out there might use that against her.
00:33:34
Speaker
at first you're like okay maybe she's posted this online and that's how they they know these details because you know just look at facebook we say works at blah blah blah here's pictures of your child here's pictures of your family here's pictures of you know people know where you vacation you might even have a picture where you're standing by a new car you bought or whatever it is
00:34:02
Speaker
You know, there's so much that you post online that you don't realize the information that you're giving. But like you've said, to know also the name of her OBGYN, to know what door she normally walked in and out of at work. Those are the, I think the creepiest.
00:34:29
Speaker
used right of the details because then you think okay this has to be somebody I know and who cares so little about me that they would put me in this situation. Now in the beginning of her audio because this was a question that I that I had
00:34:51
Speaker
There was a link attached to her picture. Yes. Somehow. Yes. I don't know. Again, I don't know how the app works, but that's what she made it sound like. Yeah. OK. And so he clicks on it thinking it's going to be one thing. But in reality, it's like a job posting pretty much to kidnap this pregnant lady. Right. And I think what's so terrifying about that is to know the
00:35:19
Speaker
The intent was obviously, in my mind, and I talked to Taylor about this a little bit, to take her child because she was far enough along that the baby would survive. But then you think, so what were their plans with her? Yeah, because there's really only one of two options at that point.
00:35:46
Speaker
because you can't let, just let her go because she's, she's seen you, you know? And so it was either that she be killed or in my mind, maybe trafficked or I guess gotten rid of in some way. That's so, so scary. And I express this in the interview. I don't know how she has
00:36:16
Speaker
I guess the wherewithal to have the attitude that she has, which is so commendable, but I don't know if I could get to that point even after a couple of years.
Advertisements and Whisper's data leak
00:36:31
Speaker
I think I would doubt everybody's intentions. I would think, okay, who was out to get me? Who's going to hurt my child? Who's going to try to take my child if I turn my back?
00:36:49
Speaker
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00:40:55
Speaker
Fortunately, some of the other attempted crimes were also thwarted, though there are still many alleged dangers with the app that we'll talk about. But just as dangerous, the Washington Post revealed in a story about the app their accusations that the app had accidentally
00:41:19
Speaker
left a database of information about its users right there online that anyone could access without a password. And the Washington Post said that included in that list was, as that post reporter discovered, around 1.3 million users aged 15. And here's their rough geographic location.
00:41:48
Speaker
Okay. So they left then a list of users, underage users, and where we could locate these said 15 year olds. Yes. Now I do believe, so I mentioned the age 17 at the beginning. I believe it's 17 now. I'm fairly certain that when the app was in its infancy, you only had to be 13 to use the app.
00:42:17
Speaker
Okay, so imagine a 13 year old using the app that we've been talking about. But that means even if your child is 15, this 1.3 million users age 15, that means you or your child's data was potentially available for any nefarious person to access.
00:42:38
Speaker
And even within the app itself, this Washington Post reporter found that it had been linked to an extremely high chance of stumbling across something either sexual or
00:42:54
Speaker
inappropriate. So everything from devious sexual fantasies that I certainly don't want my early teenage child to be looking at, or, or me to see the right or me either you're right, or ideations of self harm, which again, I don't want my early teenage child to be seeing nor thinking about.
00:43:22
Speaker
And that was how Taylor's situation was discovered, right? Because he thought it was something sexual and ended up being the kidnapping. Right, exactly. Here's the problem with sharing those details with complete strangers. Everything from the sexual fantasies to ideas about self-harm is you don't know if they're telling the truth about their own information.
00:43:49
Speaker
You know, you think you're talking to someone who understands maybe, but they might not because what do predators look for? So our listeners, you sleuth hounds, I don't know if you know this, but as teachers, every single year we watch videos about online dangers. We watch them with our students.
00:44:14
Speaker
the dangers of an online presence and of predators. And what do predators look for? Well, they look for someone who has likely experienced trauma so they can step in as the one to provide a sense of security or a sense of love or a sense of familiarity. And so it's almost as though a predator could nefariously use this Whisper app
00:44:43
Speaker
as this easily accessible place to groom victims.
Whisper's moderation issues
00:44:49
Speaker
I mean, especially if the conversation can go back and forth, which I'm assuming from the descriptions that we've had, it can through hosts. Are there a way to private message people? You can, yes, you can. You can send direct messages to people. And so, you know, let's say you've got somebody who has experienced trauma and
00:45:11
Speaker
those dangerous users convince the vulnerable poster to share their identity or their location. Now, not only do they know your identity on this supposedly anonymous app, but also a dark secret that you don't want anyone else to know about, something that you would likely do almost anything. It's like a blackmail you with. Exactly, to keep quiet.
00:45:37
Speaker
And so you think you might be, you could be on there and somebody says, oh, I feel the exact same. Hey, do you go, you know, they see a town, especially if this person says their age somewhere in the post or something like that. And they say, hey, I live in the same town. What school do you go to? I wonder if it's the same one I go to. And this might be an adult who's having this conversation.
00:46:02
Speaker
and the child shares. Seems like a very easy way to punish people. Mm hmm. Yeah, definitely. Now, the company has tried to monitor its users in the posts. According to the that Washington Post article by Drew Harwell titled secret sharing app whisper left users locations
00:46:24
Speaker
fetishes exposed on the web, they had marked nearly 200,000 accounts to be ones that should be banned due to both inappropriate content and spam. So they are identifying many. So they're trying to monitor, right? Because there are 200,000 accounts that they flagged. But to put things into perspective, Maggie,
00:46:53
Speaker
This is from that article, quote, more than 40% of those banned accounts were flagged as having solicited minors, end quote. I mean, that is, that is scary as the parent of a young teen.
00:47:13
Speaker
at issue is how the company is searching through the post to find those that go against the policy, because it's human eyes that are combing through what gets posted. So that means. Oh, so like in Taylor's instance, it could have not even looked bad. Right. Until you clicked on that link. Somebody thought it was one thing. And nobody's going to click on it. Yeah.
00:47:37
Speaker
So that means for all of those 200,000 that have been caught, that have been flagged, how many got through without detection? Business Insider detailed that Whisper utilizes around 100 moderators from the Philippines to rifle through posts to ensure that posters are meeting those posting guidelines. But there are no people monitoring private messages.
00:48:06
Speaker
that are sent through the app. Also only 100 people and there's millions of users. They're not going to catch everything. Exactly. Yeah. There's 100 people combing through posts from tens of millions. When you're realistic about it, how many do you think they really see to stop and how many times are. Exactly. Troublesome and scary posts never identified.
00:48:33
Speaker
It feels as though in the research that I did that the owners of the app and apps like this one do have, you know, conflicting obligations because the whole premise of the app is anonymity, right? To feel like you can come here and your identity not be revealed. And so they don't want to make it feel like they're betraying their users by sharing information. And yet at the same time,
00:49:01
Speaker
they say, and this is according to that CEO and co-founder Michael Hayward in the Washington Post article, quote, we comply with valid legal processes, says Hayward. We don't collect personal information and can obviously only provide what we have.
00:49:19
Speaker
an IP address would typically give authorities a home address, though Hayward did not elaborate on what details exactly Whisper would be able to pass on to the police." That makes me very upset because clearly
00:49:39
Speaker
They gave the police nothing in Taylor's case, not yet an IP address, nothing. So what are they doing in situations like Taylor's to help catch these people that are doing this? And by not giving her anything, that leaves her aware that there's a threat, but she has no place
00:50:06
Speaker
like doesn't know how close this person is nor a face to attach to it.
Real-life cases of predatory behavior on Whisper
00:50:11
Speaker
Now, I will say, and there were other instances that I did read about where information was used in order to kind of further the investigation to later make an arrest. For example, in July 2018, a Canadian man from Toronto allegedly used Whisper to, per an article for CTV News Canada,
00:50:39
Speaker
lure a 15-year-old to a hotel and sexually assault her. In that case, law enforcement were able to look at the messages, use that basic information about the user, so the age range and the geolocation, to identify the individuals.
00:51:04
Speaker
Another example, another man, a 29-year-old from Cleveland, Ohio, used Whisper to have explicit conversations with someone that he thought was a 13-year-old girl that was really undercover officers controlling the, quote, unquote, girl's profile. And just as a warning, Maggie, this next detail and listeners is extremely disturbing.
00:51:35
Speaker
This man, according to the website for the United States Attorney's Office for the Western District of Virginia, where the girl said she was from, though remembers law enforcement, quote, several times during the course of his online conversation with law enforcement.
00:51:52
Speaker
Foltz, the man, expressed his desire to bring the 13-year-old girl back to his home in Ohio so that he could both impregnate her and teach her how to please him sexually." This is happening on or happened on the Whisper app. Another girl in Pennsylvania
00:52:18
Speaker
had posted on Whisper that she was home alone and she said that she was lonely after a fight with her family. So she's revealing these really vulnerable feelings. But like according to her age, well actually I feel like almost anybody would post something not exactly like that but
00:52:41
Speaker
something that innocent and you don't realize how much you're giving away. Right. And she was 14. So she was very young. And so she posted that she was home alone, that she had had a fight with her family, that she was feeling lonely. And she actually began chatting, so direct messages, with somebody that was connected geographically to her. Because remember, you can search nearby posts.
00:53:07
Speaker
And so here she is, a 14-year-old, and she thinks that she's talking to another teenager who said, well, I'll come over and keep you company. So she tells the person her address and said, hey, let's watch a movie together.
00:53:26
Speaker
A man who was 22 years old showed up, began choking her and raped her in her own home, all within less than 10 minutes of coming to her house.
00:53:40
Speaker
Oh my God. And it's not just kids, Maggie, that I read about. Adults have been victims as well, just like Taylor, who we heard about. Yet another victim I read about was a 23-year-old woman who thought that she was chatting. So this isn't just kids who are getting fooled. She thought she was chatting on the Whisper app with another female.
00:54:02
Speaker
And again, thinking that she's bonding, she's creating this real life friendship, gives the user her address. And when the vehicle like pulls up in her driveway, she's expecting to see this woman who she thought she was talking to. But instead, there's an unknown male in the car with a gun pointed right at her, forcing her to get into the vehicle as well.
00:54:26
Speaker
He proceeded to take her to a vacant lot in Mobile, Alabama, where he raped her. And again and again, Maggie, I read about cases just like these happening not just across the United States, but across the globe, even.
Parental guidance on online safety
00:54:43
Speaker
And, you know, I don't know because obviously I don't have a child that is of social media age. And so, you know, Anthony and I have obviously discussed what we think would be appropriate
00:54:56
Speaker
for our kid as far as, you know, smartphones or social media, that kind of thing. But again, I don't know, I almost feel like
00:55:08
Speaker
People with kids the age that they're on social media, their kids should listen to this episode. Because this would scare the living daylights out of me. This would be like the DARE program in fifth grade. And they're like, if you use cocaine one time, you'll be addicted. And I was like, I will never use cocaine. Because I will not be addicted. It scared me that bad. That's what this would do to me.
00:55:29
Speaker
Right. Or even those, you know, when I was a kid, you had the the fried egg commercial of like, this is your brain. Oh, yeah. Brain on drugs. And just I think kids knowing or hearing about the potential dangers, because as scary as all this is that we've talked about, I don't think it's something that we should hide from our kids either. Because if you hide them from it, then they're naive.
00:55:58
Speaker
to those dangers. As social media intelligence expert Steve Webb told Denise Middleton, reporter for Fox 26 Houston, quote, the days are gone in which we can think that our kids are safe because they're in their bedrooms and they're quiet, end quote. With the rise of screen time,
00:56:21
Speaker
It's up to nearly 44 and a half hours a week for those aged eight to 28 has come a rise in anxiety, depression, cyberharassment, and suicide rates. Parents, especially those of us who are parents of teens or tweens, have to be vigilant and care enough to check our children's phones. Look for the dangerous apps.
00:56:47
Speaker
Keep yourself informed and be aware. In that same Fox 26 article, Webb went on to say the following, quote, if you've got three calculators as apps on those children's phones, they're not using three calculators. More than likely, two of those are cloaking apps where they put in code and it allows them to hide things like pictures and websites and different things that they're doing.
00:57:15
Speaker
that they want to hide from you." Reporter Middleton offers some solutions, though. On the front end, think about adding a parental control app, like Netnanny, Bark, or Norton. Each one monitors different things. You can track calls.
00:57:35
Speaker
and text messages and even see what your child's screen looks like through remote browsing." Or you could do what I do and consider setting up permissions so your child has to get your permission to download any app or make any purchases, at least giving you the ability to do some research.
00:57:56
Speaker
Social media apps are so numerous and they seemingly pop up overnight. The appeal of some, like Whisper, on its surface might seem clear for those who want to confess something without fear of retaliation or judgment.
Resilience and living with awareness
00:58:12
Speaker
Garrett Sloan from Adweek wrote, quote, this is a new type of social sharing, the kind that won't come back to haunt you, end quote. But is all of this a good thing?
00:58:24
Speaker
Wouldn't we rather that sharing happen to someone who can provide help or guidance, like parents, friends, or therapists? As for those like Taylor, well, that's a bit harder. Be aware of your surroundings, of suspicious vehicles. Change up your daily routine sometimes, and make sure that you monitor the privacy settings of your own social media.
00:58:53
Speaker
What's harder still is what Taylor was ultimately able to do, though, to see that the world is changing, to know that there are threats out there that you might not even realize, and to live your life, love and help strangers, and find joy in all moments anyway. Those are lessons that take practice every single day.
00:59:23
Speaker
That's the message that I choose to shout from my metaphorical rooftop.
00:59:30
Speaker
Again, please like and join our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast to continue the conversation and see images related to this episode. As always, follow us on Twitter, at casescoffee, on Instagram, at coffee cases podcast, or you can always email us suggestions to coffeeandcasespodcastatgmail.com. Please tell your friends about our podcast so more people can be reached to possibly help bring some closure to these families. Don't forget to rate our show and leave us a comment as well. We hope to hear from you soon.
01:00:00
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.
Podcast achievements and ending ads
01:00:23
Speaker
It's love notes with Maggie and Allison.
01:00:28
Speaker
And guys, we are coming up on the deadline for voting. So we wanted to remind you of the very exciting fact that coffee and cases is for the second year in a row, a finalist for the podcast awards, best female hosted podcast, which obviously would not be possible without you all. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. For those of you that voted for us in the first round.
01:00:54
Speaker
And please consider voting for us in round two also, because it would be even more exciting to win. And then we would be in eternal debt to you all. Yes, we would. Well, we already are, but we would even more.
01:01:06
Speaker
So make sure that you check your email, including your spam folder, to see if you have received an email from Podcast Awards for being chosen to take part in the final round of voting. And if so, like Maggie said, we would appreciate your vote again. And maybe we can bring home the win this year.
01:01:26
Speaker
which is super important since we focus on lesser known cases in the hopes of getting coverage that those families don't often get. The exposure that would come from winning such an award would mean so much to so many people beyond just the two of us. Yes. We see how much you guys care about the families just as much as we care about them. So let's show the world what that kind of love looks like.
01:01:54
Speaker
And with that, all of our love is going out to each and every one of you. Until next week, Sleuth Hounds.
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Speaker
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