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Red Rover, Red Rover, Send Gover Back Over - Ep 116
562 Plays4 years ago
On this episode of A Life in Ruins Podcast, Carlton is back! Connor and Carlton sit down and discuss his wild and crazy summer in the field. They do a deep dive into where he was, what type of site he worked at, and the atmosphere of Lynch, Nebraska. Carlton then describes the early history of the site, his new gig as a bartender, and what it is like to be a senior graduate teaching assistant at a field school. Connor and Carlton finish discussing the next couple of months and Carlton's growth as a human.
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For rough transcripts of this episode go to www.archpodnet.com/ruins/116
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Transcript
Introduction and Absence of David
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. Welcome to, I don't even know how to start this, it's been so long. Welcome to Life of the Woods podcast. This is episode 116. I'm your host, Carl Tagover, and I'm joined by my co-host, Connor Johnin. David's not here right now because he's up in the north excavating giants and mammoths beyond the wall.
00:00:29
Speaker
So, he cannot be here with us today. We miss
Challenges in Fieldwork
00:00:32
Speaker
him. It's been a while since I've been on, and Connor has been faithfully holding down the fort during my absence, and it is just amazing to see your face today, Connor. How are you doing, man? Oh, I'm just doing fantastic, and we do investigate.
00:00:46
Speaker
the careers of those living a life in ruins. Anyone else miss that? You did so well otherwise. So no, it's really good to see you and it's been hard because you've been in the middle of nowhere. So it's like, we've basically not had real phone contact for like
00:01:06
Speaker
Like, it feels like a month. I have been MIA for quite some time. And what had originally happened is I would just did field work. I was helping with the University of Colorado Boulder and Augustana University field schools. And I was told ahead of time that we had access to the internet there. So there's two internets. There's the guest and there's the password protected one. That's really great. I was told we finally had access to the password protected one. We were lied to. We did not have access. It was the wrong password. And any more than two devices are on at the guest Wi-Fi. It doesn't work.
00:01:35
Speaker
trying to tell 31 college students to not be on the Wi-Fi is a difficult task in itself, and so we were unable to record. I only had service at site, which is on top of a bluff. We were staying down below in town in a floodplain, so I had zero access to
00:01:53
Speaker
anything that mattered regarding this podcast. I had no control. Like we had a plan. Connor handled it super well and like trying to reschedule folks. I just couldn't get on. And the one time I was going to go to the bar that had wifi to do it, there was a tornado in town and like knocked out all the wifi and service. Like it was just, I was, I was being told to leave this alone and let David and Connor run it and run it. They did.
00:02:20
Speaker
and we sort of we did we did some things we interviewed some people it was really a sad thing because even when you were in Ukraine like you would talk to us like most nights
00:02:30
Speaker
And it's like, not that we're like codependent anymore, but there is like this like, Oh, I'm going to talk to David and Carlton today and they're going to send me memes and make me happy. But no, I just had to deal with David and his, you know, lack of planning and crazy life. I had better cell service and access to internet in Eastern Europe that I did in small town, Nebraska. Um, that is true. These are, these are facts.
00:02:57
Speaker
Yeah. But otherwise, it was like a really fantastic five weeks. It was amazing to get back out to the site that I was promised to have worked at for the past three years, and which we haven't been able to for two because of the pandemic. And so I was grateful for the opportunity to get back. Where's this place at? Give us the location.
Lynch Site's Impact on Nebraska
00:03:18
Speaker
What were you guys doing?
00:03:19
Speaker
Yeah. So we were working at the Lynch site, 25BD1 for all those who know Smithsonian trinomials at Lynch, Nebraska, which is in Boyd County in Northeastern Nebraska, just south of the Missouri River in South Dakota. So really up there up in a vacant part of Nebraska, where primarily there's like one high school in each county and they have enough people to do eight on eight football. You know, so Lynch population, like 210. And when
00:03:49
Speaker
35 people roll up, the population expands by a fifth. So it's a small town, absolutely lovely. And I know for those that listen from the University of Wyoming elsewhere, you're used to these small town communities, you know exactly what we're talking about. The site itself is part of the Plains Village pattern. It's ancestral Pawnee and Arikara, which we'll get to. And it's the most
00:04:12
Speaker
dated site on the Great Plains, thanks to me and Dr. Bamforth and Dr. Carlson. It's also the largest site on the Great Plains for the 13th and 14th centuries. It is a place of very immense social change as well as changes in settlement patterns. There's some really intriguing things going on at Lynch that have connections to
00:04:34
Speaker
the Mississippian world, from Spyro, Cahokia, and up into Oneota territory in the Great Lakes. So, there's something crazy going on up there 700 years ago that eventually leads to the Pawnee and Ricorinaceans a couple, two, 300 years later. That's awesome. As a measure of size, how many bars does it have?
00:04:57
Speaker
The two. Lynch. Lynch, Nebraska. It has two, two bars and technically the bowling alley counts. So each, so there's, there's Bubba's and that's his shirt. I'm repping Bubba Bubba's Tavern. Love Bubba. Bubba is a huge fan and supporter and qualities. Nebraska, right? Stopping Bubba's. Quasi's a sponsor of the field school. Everybody has his hats and shirts. Like, you know, um, there's the K K K and K bar. And then there's the bowling alley. And so, uh,
00:05:27
Speaker
the double K bar. So, you know, double K bar, you know, you go there and they got bud heavy and they got bud light. And that's, that's it. And a pool table. And then Bubba's is way more, you know, full bar, you know, it used to be a restaurant prior to the floods in 2019, which we've talked about before, you know, it used to be a pub. And so like way more
00:05:53
Speaker
way more alcohol choices. Very much, it reminds me very closely of, gosh, I can't think that there's an analogy for Laramie, to be honest. Would it be like the Rangers?
00:06:11
Speaker
No, I think more like, what's the one with the bullet holes? Buckhorn. Yeah, I think so. So I mean, like very much wide variety of drinks, mixed drinks. They also do pizzas, which are fantastic. It has a beer garden and sports bars. So we were there, you know, during the Stanley Cup finals, man, like all of a sudden the small town has like
00:06:32
Speaker
20 something Colorado kids, and we're all going crazy at the sports bar while they're all just trying to relax after a hard long day of, you know, um, agriculture. And we're sitting there just like screaming, go webs. Every time there's a goal, you know, it was like, you know, and locals would comment how we bring life back to the community. Cause it's not, you know, most people who are young, once they go to college,
00:06:54
Speaker
They don't come back. They stay in Lincoln or Omaha or somewhere else. All of a sudden, they have 30 young people in the town who are enjoying the town. There's a movie theater in town. Surprisingly, each one of these little towns in northeastern Nebraska has a thing that day. One has the grocery store. Lynch has the movie theater. They all depend on each other for economies. Lynch has the bowling alley. Even though it's a town of 220, it has amenities similar to maybe Laramie, to be honest.
00:07:23
Speaker
I'm just no fast food. Did you see Top Gun? Did you get your own private screening of Top Gun? So we did. Is that what I hear? Yes. So actually, me and my brother saw it before we left, but then when we got to Lynch, Bubba, who owned his real name's Brad, he was so excited we were back because I loved... Last time I was there, me and Bubba just really hit it off. He was so happy we were there and was really interested about the archeology. He drove down after seeing us pull up.
00:07:48
Speaker
And I hugged him. He was like, hey, Top Gun's in town. I can get you a private screening. Who wants to go see Top Gun tomorrow night? And we're like,
Community and Archaeology
00:07:56
Speaker
wear it out. Let's do this. And so he was so happy we were back. And he works at the movie theater, too. He's an all around town man. And so the next day, we were like, oh, by the way, we have a private screening. And the students were like, who is this man? I'm like, that's Bubba. You'll get to know him. And yeah, it was fantastic. Tickets were like $3.
00:08:14
Speaker
a bucket of popcorn was like $3. Students were like, these are prices? I'm like, this place is magical. Hell, Wednesdays at Bubba's was all day happy hour. So beers were like $2.50, shots were $3.
00:08:28
Speaker
I spent an obscene amount of money at these places because everything was so cheap and it was like, oh, well, this is worth like four beers in Colorado. So it was an amazing town. They were super welcoming. We got to take part in bowling tournaments, shuffleboard tournaments. I really love that. That part of Nebraska is a very special place in my heart. I spent a lot of my time outside of excavation, actually connecting with locals. They seemed to like me. I hit it off real well with rural folks. I just turned on.
00:08:55
Speaker
just bring out the good old Virginia and start talking to people about, you know, how's the deer hunting this year? Like, how's everyone doing? And just like get into that mode and make connections. Because even though I'm leaving to go to Indiana, Northeastern Nebraska is still going to be, I still want to work at that area. There's still so much that you learn. And so it's important to make those connections. And we've, Steve Holen is from Lynch, Nebraska.
00:09:21
Speaker
We've talked about so much. Steve Holland is from Lynch. His ex-wives are from Lynch. And so he came to visit us and I got to know Steve so well. Like I've met him before, but like he came up and we really got to talk because he's the reason why people in that area love archaeology because they know Steve, so they're not worried about us.
00:09:40
Speaker
And so everywhere we go, people ask, do you know Steve Holland? Yes, we know Steve Holland. And it was really fun to actually get to know him on a personal basis, because he actually did a lot of Pawnee archaeology in his early career before he got into mammoths.
00:09:52
Speaker
And so, you know, we talked about his through the article and we had really good conversations about it. And some of the experiences that he had at UNL when Nagpur was passed, it was like, you know, it really opened my eyes because we've talked about him on this podcast in a very particular context because of the article was, you know, rather
00:10:10
Speaker
It had, it had, uh, uh, what's, uh, what's the word I'm looking for? Connotations are big. Yeah. Yeah. It had, yes. Yeah. There were some repercussions from it, but like getting to know the man himself and, you know, you know, talking to him about like, why did it take 20 years to do this? And he's like, I had to wait, you know, it was really, really contextualized it. And I actually look at that article in a much different light into what he was trying to actually say and the boundaries he was trying to push. And now I appreciate it more than just,
00:10:36
Speaker
what I thought it was. So, I mean, it was just another one of those opportunities that made me reevaluate, you know, how I think about archeology, how I, you know, think about the articles I read, because they're still humans behind them. And so, and also to get the students to, you know, when we were outside talking, it was Dr. Banforth, Dr. Carlson and Steve, Dr. Holland just talking. And it was like one of those, like you've been there when George Frison talks and with other professors, you don't say anything, you just want to be in that atmosphere. And I was like grabbing students and like,
00:11:05
Speaker
This is a conversation you need to be next to and just shut up and listen. I was like throwing them all. So now there's this whole circle of students and they're all like, why are they here? I'm like, just fine. Just talk. We're not here. Just think we're not here. Just keep going. Because I've reflected on those same things with like when Frisen and
Students and Field School Experiences
00:11:20
Speaker
Marcel and Bob, you just take it in because those guys aren't going to be there forever. Then those are the experiences that you'll remember. And just the things they're talking about was like things you don't normally hear professors or professionals talk about.
00:11:34
Speaker
Yeah, especially I think like conferences and like, you know, being in the field and meeting these people and having those conversations are almost better than reading their, their lit works. Cause they'll give you like, you know, the literature, their articles go through a certain amount of, of
00:11:50
Speaker
editing, changing, whatever. But if you want like the real truth from a lot of these folks, you need to have those conversations and whatever context it is. I mean, I would love to have Steve on the podcast and have him talk to us about this, you know, if we want. Yeah, I think that would be great.
00:12:07
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. He was such a cool cat. Those are important conversations like you were mentioning, man. He showed up with like frozen watermelon and a cooler full of beer. You know, he's like one of those old school cats with like, you know, like here I am, this is me. And like, he just genuinely cared and he still loves the field. And like, I actually got to sit down and talk with him about his pony work and he's like, and he, and he cares about it a lot. And like the first thing he saw my tattoo and saw
00:12:33
Speaker
the cross-piece pipe and hatchet. He's like, you're Doug's Pawnee student. But he knows that shit. And I was just like, oh, yes, yes, I am. And he was like, let's talk. And so I was like, outside of the mammoth context, I was like, yeah, sweet man. Because I cited his stuff from the 70s and 80s. And he just got a passion for large hairy elephants that he chased. Yeah, I mean, he was the curator at the Museum for Science.
00:13:02
Speaker
Yeah. I've been following him. Yeah. I've been like following him, this man. And it was just kind of cool to see. And he was just like, you know, he was like, stop chasing me. Cause I was like, Oh, Dr. Steve Nash says hi. He's like, how does Dr. Steve Nash know me? I'm like, Oh, well I'm his postdoc. He's like, what?
00:13:20
Speaker
It was a really fun experience. He was the only visitor. We had the retired state archaeologists, Rob Bozell, show up. Many members of the Nebraska Archaeology Department set history in Nebraska. We also invited the Pawnee and Ricker out for site visitation for a week, which just went.
00:13:39
Speaker
It was just absolutely phenomenal to have them out and participate. And so it was a really busy five weeks, to be honest. I'd been sleeping so much. It just felt like a rodeo, man. I didn't realize how tired I was until I got back. It's weird though, because I swear to God, the air conditioner, I hear it whispering, like, sign my form. Oh, you see this artifact? And I'm just like, Jesus, it's still in my head.
00:14:06
Speaker
But that's the nice thing about field work is that you're fully engrossed in it and you're just there and you sleep well and everything goes well when you're in the field spending that time, it feels like. It was so cool. We had such amazing students. In fact, I didn't learn this until the fourth or fifth week. One of the volunteer editors of the APN, Laura, was one of my students.
00:14:31
Speaker
like, yeah, I didn't, it was her partner was like, by the way, Laura listens to a life in ruins, like all the time. And she works for Chris. She edits podcasts. I was like, why didn't she say anything? And she's like, uh, you know, they were, you know, explaining, well, maybe she's just shy about it. And I was like, Laura, you bought and she, yeah. Then once I approached her about it, she's like, I love your show. I listened to every episode. I want stickers. Like I worked for Chris and I'm just like,
00:14:53
Speaker
We could have been talking this whole time about this. Why did you wait till now? Huge shout out to Laura for being an awesome, not only an awesome student, an amazing student, but a fan of the podcast. Some of the students did mention that goddamn Hangover Trenchnaps album, and so that came out. There will be a picture that will make the Instagram at some point of Carlton doing
00:15:20
Speaker
a dirt nap. I think at some point. Hangover. Yeah. Hangover. It was, it was, they, they were dying laughing because they're like, why is this exist? And they were going through the songs and they never got to a Clovis paradise though. They would, they, they listened to, they listened to the really bad ones and we're dying. I'm like, you guys should probably listen to Clovis paradise because that or ancient aliens idiots. Like that one's pretty decent.
00:15:41
Speaker
That's the gem. That's the gem. No, it is. But they were also blown away. The other thing that was annoying, like, do you know David Howe? And they would show me posts from Ethno. And I'm like, yes, I know him. He's a co-host on the podcast. I'm like, what? And I was telling him, because he was supposed to visit at some point, I'm like, David's coming, David's coming, David's coming.
00:16:01
Speaker
Then he never came. Every time I told students something was coming, the Pawnees were supposed to bring teepees at one point. That was never showed up. David was supposed to come. He never showed up. I got to stop promising some of these things. Overall, it was quite a five weeks. It was in terms of excavation, the heat index we had up there. Hell, it was a lot at times.
00:16:27
Speaker
I got a really kick-ass flip-flop tan. I've got victory V's on my feet right now because of my zeros. They broke the first day and I was wearing flip-flops, which is fine. Everyone wears flip-flops in Great Plains archeology. That's the wildest tradition that I've heard of.
00:16:43
Speaker
Yeah. We were sending pictures to friends out in the Mountain West or the Southwest, and they're like, we were barefoot most of the time. Once we had the trail stamped away and you could see where the cactus was, it was like, who needs shoes?
00:17:00
Speaker
Are you guys like the Jimmy Buffett? You're just like doing Margaritaville in the middle of which the press? You should have heard the playlist we have going on. People would visit and they're like, is this a beach party? Because we're digging in Pleistocene sand. We're all wearing tank tops and short shorts. We're all barefoot.
00:17:21
Speaker
And everyone's just, you know, at some points delusional from heat exhaustion. When it's over a hundred degrees, the heat index is 115, 20 mile per hour winds. So there's no shade. And everyone's just a little loopy at the end of the day. You know, it just, it became, it's, it's just, it's just Lynch, Nebraska, man. And then we all go home and we have a swimming plate. It's crazy. It's, it's like a summer camp. You know, we'd, we'd excavate all day.
00:17:44
Speaker
go home, hit up the pool. The bar was only allowed on weekends though. There was no bar outside of that. You only went to Bubba's Wednesday nights and we made it count. But bowling alley is free. Like, you know, it's just, it's different. It's a different experience that I'm used to at Wyoming. That was for sure. But it, uh, I don't think that lessens the experience, right? Cause I mean, at the end of the day, I think like some CRM crews like, yeah, you can't, but like the vast majority
00:18:12
Speaker
You're holed up somewhere, and what matters most is maybe not necessarily how long you can send to tent. We did have people tent. You had the choice of a room. We had our fair share of tent canters, including Laura. Shout out to Laura. It's just a different experience, but they did so well. This has been quite the experience. We're going to end this segment right now, episode 116 of Life and Run's podcast. Thank goodness David isn't here. We miss him. RIP.
00:18:38
Speaker
Thank goodness, but we miss him. Welcome back to the saddest podcast on the archeology podcast network. This is a life in ruins. Carlton is here. David is not. Thank goodness. Oh man, you missed it. Every time you would, we mentioned your name in the last episode, I would go, do the sad trombone.
00:19:03
Speaker
I really like the CRM survival guide. The one that you guys did before that, I couldn't understand the guest at all. We were playing it in the van on our way to the groceries and all the students were like, what is this man saying? And I'm like, I have no idea. Well, that's like part because like Vinny's Italian and then he's
00:19:22
Speaker
Exactly. Well, he had the worst microphone and we just couldn't make it work. So he had like a PC microphone. So we're sorry for all those folks. Like Vinny's awesome. We'll have him back on and we'll do it properly. But because we talked about the archeology and there might be, because it's so new and the stuff you found this summer, it might not be a great topic and
00:19:46
Speaker
It's probably going to be a topic of many conversations in the future and whatnot. Could you explain in general what you see and what happened at Lynch and what makes it so important, besides it being the first site in Boyd County?
00:20:04
Speaker
first discovered site. That's wild. I wish I could talk about what we found, but I have to wait. We'll present it at Plains in Oklahoma City, Plains Conference this year. I'm just at the moment, a graduate student assistant. I'm part of the project, but I'm not the PI. I'm so goddamn excited to tell everyone what the hell we found, but we just can't. We can't, we can't, we can't. But generally, Lynch, 25BD1, the site is over a mile long.
00:20:31
Speaker
It's over a bluff overlooking Ponkin Whiskey Creeks. It's over 200 acres of property. Based on the analysis that I did in one of my articles, Shield Chief at All 2021, Bayesian Analysis of the Chronological Insight,
00:20:46
Speaker
It's a single occupation site, contemporaneous with one another, and it is this coalesce. It's part of what we call, it is the first site of the initial coalescent variant, which is a taxonomic unit describing basically the coalescence of plains horticulturalists into the centralized towns. And they really are towns, right?
00:21:12
Speaker
There's that prevalence of calling anything Indian like a village, but if you look at what we know about modern excavations of Troy based on its size and population, Lynch is larger in both.
00:21:24
Speaker
and Lint-Nichola is a city, right? So, this is really a town, if not a small city. Population estimates, roughly 6,000 people lived here and potentially more. It seems to be a bunch of people from central Nebraska, northern Kansas,
00:21:42
Speaker
came here. They have Central Plains tradition for square wattle and da houses, which we think they might be that true if we're not quite sure. But there's also pottery styles that are coming in from the Great Lakes. So there's this mixture of locally made pottery that's Central Plains tradition, but what we call Oneota. And the term that we've coined is Central Plains Oneota folks.
00:22:01
Speaker
So, there's something going on there, either ideas or people are up there. We haven't seen Oneota houses quite yet, Oneota style houses, but there's a lot of people up there. That is the first time that this has happened. Northward on the Missouri River, the initial Middle Missouri, they're doing something similar, ancestral Mandans and Hadatsas. It seems to be a response to maybe a drought.
00:22:23
Speaker
So these people are coming together and forming something that then becomes Pawnee and Arikara. And the history of the site, there were excavations in the 30s, they were a civilian conservation corps, I believe. So not WPA, but the opposite one, CCA, CCC.
00:22:38
Speaker
They dug these, you can see them on Google maps still because they didn't backfill them. These two huge trenches. So we were excavating in between them to look for a house. We did magnetometry, which was conducted by Adam Weevil. And so he, we magnetometer damn near the whole site and over, you know,
00:22:56
Speaker
It's over 10,000 anomalies that we had to sort through and see patterns. And so we were pretty positive we were over top of a house and that's what we were trying to excavate to. Dude, we found over a dozen projectile points. Only one was incomplete. Us, the rest were complete. It was crazy. We found like two preforms that were finished and like a bunch of finished plain side notch points.
00:23:20
Speaker
mostly Smoky Hill Jasper, which is like Southern Nebraska, Northern Kansas. And also, I think it's White River Group up in the Dakotas, beautiful points, really immaculate pottery. We found unfired clay and it was just dense. It was just crazy. And we had 31 students
00:23:41
Speaker
because neither CU Boulder or Augustin have had a field school in two years. We have basically a backlog and we had to pick the litter. There was only one freshman. The rest were predominantly seniors and juniors, so we have mostly adults. It showed because even though we had 31 students, it was the best crew I've ever had. I've been doing field schools for six years now from Wyoming and CU Boulder and Fort Lewis College. I've done
00:24:06
Speaker
I've seen them. I've been around field schools. I know how this operates. These kids were just immaculate. I shouldn't say kids, adults. They listened. They paid it. They just did such a wonderful job at excavating in close quarters too.
00:24:23
Speaker
and conditions. I think I mentioned last time, like we got a week where it was over a hundred degrees and with humidity and the wind was so strong, we couldn't tarp. So like they were in it. So we would do work from seven till about 11 30. We'd break for lunch, get back to site around, like be back by 12. So, and then we'd work till two 30, three o'clock to try to avoid the heat as best we could. Were you just sampling one house area and how many times has it
00:24:53
Speaker
how many places have been sampled on Lynch? Like you said, it's a mile-long site, so how much testing has really been done there? There was the 1930s excavations that were shoveling it out. There was another excavation, I think, in the 60s.
00:25:10
Speaker
and another one in 2008 and then August and August and in 2018 August and it's a boulder in 2019. But it's been sampled a bit, which there's just so much we don't know about that site. And it's just, it's just, it's just crazy. Originally, we had different expectations for we thought we were going to
00:25:27
Speaker
open, basically test, get the students, the house that we were looking for was, it was enough under the surface that it would allow the students time to practice excavation to get down to it. Once they got down to it, we'd be able to open up another, like maybe up to two more excavations. That didn't happen.
00:25:42
Speaker
So we stayed in the same spot. And so we weren't able to do our original plan. And based on what we had discovered in the field, radically adapt our game plans. And I really have to give a huge shout out to Dr. Carlson, Dr. Bamforth for being able to do that on the fly like that.
00:26:02
Speaker
continued working. You could tell I'd been out of the field for a little bit. You know how we have the arbitrary datum set up at first with the stake? Well, one was getting loose, and I was like, what should I do about it? Everyone's like, oh, well, just sink it in further. None of us
00:26:17
Speaker
you know, thought about it. So I was like, all right, let's just hammer it in. And then all of a sudden it's like, all of our measurements are wrong. Like how are the measurements wrong? And it was like this, who was on the first thing where like we had been, it was like such a stupid mistake. Like, Oh, we sunk in the datum so they wouldn't get loose. So that's why our measurements are absolutely fine. The elevation control is not under control. But we fixed it. But it was like, we were freaking out for a little bit. It was just like,
00:26:42
Speaker
You know, Dr. Carlson said, Carlton, didn't you take a sledgehammer to one of those? Like, yeah, because it was fun. Oh, that. Oops.
00:26:51
Speaker
It's COVID, right? It has to be COVID. And they're like, it's okay, I haven't been excavated in two years. Actually, I ran a field school last year at Fort Lewis College. I shouldn't know better than to do something this dumb, but we caught it and fixed it. But it was just one of those goofy things. Because I asked everyone, what should we do about this? Can I just sink it in? And no one thought about it. Because we had to add the total station up yet. If the total station was up, it wouldn't have been an issue.
00:27:16
Speaker
Yeah. So it was just, it was a little goofy.
Pawnee Visitation and Impact
00:27:21
Speaker
I think one of the most, I don't think I know one of the most transformative aspects for those students is that we had the Pawnee visitation. And so originally we had over like two, three dozen people registered to come, but because of gas prices, many can afford it. So we had about a dozen, including Matt Reed. Shout out Matt Reed, who's listened to this podcast. Was on one of them. I don't have my phone near me, but he was definitely on the podcast. He is on the podcast and still listens.
00:27:46
Speaker
him, a cousin of mine, Phil Gover, one of the Phil Govers, Phil Gover III, and Aaron Prim, his son Felix, and also there's a bunch of Pawnee interns at the Crane Trust in Nebraska because that land is being deeded to us, so there's a bunch of interns out there.
00:28:03
Speaker
growing corn and they found out about so they came and visited. So they were there with us and they got to excavate. They got to see the site. We toured them around the whole area showing where all the other sites are, why this matters and the look on Felix who's a kid, get to excavate and then be a part of that.
00:28:23
Speaker
I was like, I think he's going to be one of my graduate students in a decade because that kid was just blown. And there's another part of the site where there's eroding pits and like Felix really wanted a projectile point and they're eroding pits. So it's like the context is gone. And you know, our, our view of it, including, you know, the, the PIs is like, if, if anyone, if this, if those objects belong to anyone, it's descendants of the, it's the Pawnee. So we went to these, um,
00:28:46
Speaker
Roting pits, everything's washed out, context is gone. And sure enough, it was a day after it rained and we found a complete side notch point. And Felix was so excited when he got it, he threw it in the air and lost it in the grass for a little bit. It was freaking out trying to find it. And we're like, we're going to hold on to that to you, bud. So when you get home,
00:29:03
Speaker
And it was just such a humbling experience to have them there for a week. We fed them. I made fry bread. And it was like, they were giving me so much grief for my fry bread because they're like, usually your auntie or someone makes this and this is your first time making fry bread. So they just loved heckling me on making Indian tacos.
00:29:21
Speaker
got a bunch of these like field school guys. Everyone was super excited to have the Pawnee. We even had a day, they were there during one of our days off and we said like, Hey, you don't have to cause it's your day off, but like if some of you would like to volunteer to come open the site so we can show it to the Pawnee's since not 31 of you will be in there.
00:29:39
Speaker
And like half the field school showed up on one of their days off, like a lot to reopen the site and work for a morning. We didn't do a full day. We did a half day. And like a lot of the students like reflected on that and just like, no, this is amazing that they're here. Cause like before they showed up, I did this whole talk on indigenous archeology and why this is important and explaining them, like inviting a descendant community out is an outlier.
00:30:02
Speaker
Like this doesn't happen. Like there might be like, there might be like a handful of other students through schools across Canada and the United States that might do this, but like the fact we're inviting them for a week and we're hosting them, that just doesn't happen. And so the students were like, wait a second, why not? And so had this whole talk with them and explained to them indigenous archeology and mostly the history behind some of this stuff. And you know, we cedar the site and I explained to the students like, you know, 50 years ago, that would have been illegal.
00:30:29
Speaker
And they were like, you know, and really kind of contextualizing like the work that you guys are doing here matters. And I think a lot of them really felt that. And especially we had, I had three indigenous students. So two were descendants, one's descendant Crow, one's descendant Lakota, and then the other's Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma. And it was this weird for me, it wasn't weird, I don't know how to describe it. It's an interesting, I mean, it's not something you experience every day.
00:30:56
Speaker
Yeah, it's not something. And there was this, I didn't favorite them, but there was a mentorship role where I was explaining to them, like I'd kind of take them aside and be like, this is why we're doing this. This is what's going on here. Like these are things to think about. And especially for the Cherokee, the Cherokee, you know, I saw a lot of myself in her when I was undergraduate.
00:31:16
Speaker
and really kind of took that to chat with her. And we had really honest conversations about what it's like to be indigenous in this field and some of the things that she's been facing and really kind of do my best to give some sort of advice and mentorship that I didn't have, right? Coming into, I really didn't have until I got to Boulder and even then like later in my career.
00:31:38
Speaker
It was this weird, you know, I haven't had a real, I had a postdoc, but not that real postdoc experience where you, there's that time to go from student to teacher. Like I, you know, as Dr. Robinson told me is like, my learning curve is going to be steep as when I get to Indiana. And I felt a bit of that when I'm like,
00:31:57
Speaker
with the indigenous students of like, this is why we're doing this, this is how you need to protect yourself, this is how you navigate this world. I really hope, as we were talking, I think a couple of them really got inspired to pursue anthropology beyond, and I hope I get to see them maybe at IU as one of my students.
00:32:17
Speaker
best I can. So that was like that whole experience. And then the day after the Pawnees left, man, and we did what we need to do. And we had, and we did some stuff like the whole Prairie came to life. The Yucca bloom, the Prairie roses came out like the whole, and it was, it was cool. The wind came back, the temperatures dropped.
00:32:34
Speaker
And the whole prairie opened up and students were kind of wigged out by it. They're like, well, what happened? And for me and for the indigenous students, it was just like, oh yeah, this is what's supposed to happen. But for some of the other students, they were like, is this witchcraft? It was a very interesting clash of worlds. And for me, I was like, oh yeah, this is what needs to happen.
00:32:56
Speaker
But it was just such a cool experience. And I don't know how to describe it. And like to see how grateful everyone, all the Pawnee participants were. And like as we were posting photos, the folks that didn't make it were like envious. And even when I posted the announcements, I only got like one negative comment. I thought half the tribe was going to burn me at the stake as a witch. But like everyone wanted to come. And so I think next year I'll be in a position to write a grant to like hire a tour bus. And also I'm really trying to get the rickeras down. Man, if they don't have a casino to stay at,
00:33:28
Speaker
They're a little bit tent camping. Are you kidding? It's hard. It's hard. I look like that right now. It's hard to convince our Northern relatives to let come down and get in the mud for good reason. It also, I think, was a critical part in finishing the dissertation and trying to get everything done.
00:33:53
Speaker
That week-long experience reminded me of why I do what I do and affirmed that I need to do what I do. Is that going to give you fuel to get these next couple of weeks? Oh, yeah. My computer crashed. I didn't mention that.
Technical Difficulties and Bartending
00:34:08
Speaker
My laptop died two weeks in, lost all my dissertation data that I was working on. So I'm scrambling right now to get things done. And I'm like, I have an appointment with IT tomorrow to pray to the technology gods to salvage all the work I did.
00:34:24
Speaker
dude, it was like, you know, but it happened during that week. The Pawnee came and it was like, is this a, you know, part of me was like, is this is, you know, to focus on what I need to focus, you know, it was just, that was, I, I like cried when my computer died. Like it was, and then of course it got it fixed kind of, I lost all the data, but I was able to get access to it like two weeks later. All it took was one IT guy with a brain to be like, Oh, here's your code. I was like, are you kidding me?
00:34:55
Speaker
And on that note, that's your code to listen to Chris Webster talk about some beautiful things that we're selling here. So this is episode 116 of a life in ruin podcast. We will be right back. Welcome to episode 116 of a life in ruins podcast. This is segment three. This is the segment where we tell you that we will not be doing this podcast anymore.
00:35:17
Speaker
He's got a big boy job. Connor's losing his mind and David's a nomad. So it's been great. It's been fun. Maybe we'll make it to 117. We'll see. Jokes, jokes, jokes, totally jokes. We just signed a new contract with the APN. I think we're kind of locked in. I think the goal is like, let's get to 150 and then see where we're at. It's kind of the way that I'm looking at it. Yeah. So you have a couple of things going on the next couple of weeks, right?
00:35:47
Speaker
Yeah. I think one thing though is I might, I love Bart, so I have no bartending training, but like Bubba let me bartend one of the nights and I loved it. And you know what I made for the students? Buckets of audio. So they saw me on them the night before, like why, how did Carlton do that so quickly? And I'm like, Hey,
00:36:09
Speaker
And they were just like, what is this? And I was explaining it to them. And they were like, and I was like, yeah. Because everyone at Wyoming knows me is ordering the crazy drink and everyone gives me grief for it. The next night bartending and everyone's ordering. And we had buckets of them. Because the weekend prior was Lynch's reunion. They had a high school there. It's like their huge alumni week. So there's like 1,000 people in Lynch. So Bubba's goes hard and gets extra different beers and ports beers and liquors. And so they had buckets and homemade lemonade.
00:36:38
Speaker
AMFs with lemonade. And like, that was the night I was head banging on a table to a karma chameleon, you know, you know, I, it was everyone, we all got tie-dye t-shirts. We were all wearing Bubba's hats. We're all drinking AMFs. I'm sending videos to people like, Crave is like, what is going on? I'm just like, AMFs. And they're like, how, why did you do this to your students? Like, is everyone okay? I'm like, everyone's actually pacing themselves really well. It takes a while to finish a bucket of this. You know, it's like,
00:37:08
Speaker
As soon as you sent me the picture, I knew what drink it was. I saw like three or four liquors going in there. I could pour four at a time if I was double-headed. I'm like, here we go. This is not the part of the show where we're saying that Carlton is now becoming a bartender. Oh, I love it.
00:37:28
Speaker
I had so much fun. It was, it was a blast. Like, and even the locals were having a great time. The students were like, RTA is serving us alcohol. And I'm like, all right, Budweiser 225 AMF, $12 and just like pouring. And I was just doing shots. It was just, I had such a fun time. I'm so glad Bubba let me behind the bar.
00:37:46
Speaker
It was like, it just seemed like you guys gelled together. Like, it was like just there having a good time, enjoying themselves. The students couldn't believe it. They're like, where are, what planet is this where we do this stuff?
00:38:02
Speaker
why is our TA serving alcohol? And we're watching the Colorado Avs beat the hell out of Tampa Bay right now in the back. It was just like, you know, I have won the Stanley Cup, go Colorado. It was just crazy. Like it was just this surreal experience. And all these kids are coming out of COVID and they get thrown into this field school where who's in one of the people in charge, this guy, right? They're like,
00:38:25
Speaker
professional, professional by day, like nightwalker at night, just like doing, you know, with zero training and bartending. And I'm just like shots, shots, shots. So I might become a bartender, but currently before I give up on all my hopes and dreams and bartend in Lynch, Nebraska, for the rest of my life or rent, by the way, is only $400. Um, and that's where I'll be moving. That's like, I'll go live at Lynch. Yeah, that sounds fine. I'll be, I'll do whatever. I'll be a bartender. Uh, miss Hasha, I love the bartender that works there. Misty is the best. She's the best.
00:38:54
Speaker
But yes, so we all know I got a tender track position at Indiana University.
Career Developments and Teaching Philosophy
00:39:01
Speaker
As of now, it doesn't look like I have my PhD in hand, which is fine. They're allowing me until December to have PhD in hand. I'm going to be well
00:39:08
Speaker
ahead of that deadline in December, even with the backup, because I need to get it done and I have to. So I'll be an affiliate professor of anthropology and curator of public archeology at the museum and the department of anthropology. Lee says it's until August 12th. So he sent an email today. I'm like, wait a second. When is actually my first day of work? Do I need to be there August 1st or like August 15th? Because that matters if I need to find a lot, you know, temporary
00:39:36
Speaker
I'm housing and so I don't teach the first semester. I get there and I basically curate and get ready to teach in the spring. I don't have a field school for the summary at a Mac Corey, who's been on this podcast. He has his own field school and I don't want to intrude on that because he's been putting so much work into it.
00:39:52
Speaker
So next summer, my game plan is now to go back and work at Lynch as an affiliate PI and do that with Augustan and CU Boulder. It's a blessing and kind of weird that they don't give you a teaching load right up front.
00:40:10
Speaker
It is, but it's part of my contract, baby. That's what I negotiated. I'm like, I don't want to teach the first semester. And the university, both departments were like, that's fair. They know how junior I'm coming in and the radical change. So I'm pretty, I don't know how I end up in departments that actually care about my wellbeing.
00:40:31
Speaker
even this job cares about more. And so they really want to mentor me into this and get me ready. And so, um, I have a steep learning curve and I still have a lot of growing up to do to go from bartending and, and headbanging to Karma community. I can't do that anymore. So this was my last hurrah. Some of the students definitely were aggrieved by like how
00:40:50
Speaker
perceivingly wild, you know, like fun I would get, I guess, but I can't do that. You know, after this, I have to become, you know, especially bring it out to you. There's a couple, there's a couple of people. I think I know, but it's one of those things, right? Cause I'm coming into this. Like I think of like, you know, Dr. Haas, Dr. Robinson, like postdocs that I knew, like they were in their mid to late thirties and I'm coming in like,
00:41:13
Speaker
at the age of 30 to go teach graduate students and undergrads. And most grad students are older than I am. And it's just like, I just reflect on the first time that like David and Chris met me, like I walk in wearing letters like, Oh, there's this, we have a Pawnee student. I'm like, yo, what's up, bro? That's me. You know, it's like, I'm,
00:41:31
Speaker
You know, it's just, it's like, I'm looking at my future and just like, I need to, I don't know what's going on. And so, uh, but I will say like, just from my personal parents and place, and I've told you this before, and I think people on the podcast might even see this, like,
00:41:48
Speaker
Your development and your maturing and everything that you've gone through in these past couple of years has made you into a fantastic scholar, human, friend, researcher, bartender, you know, everything you've really done. And we've witnessed it before our eyes. And I know there's so many people I've talked to about this, and we are just, you know, we're insanely proud of you, of all that you've done.
00:42:15
Speaker
the person you've become and it's just been really impressive to watch someone grow like you have.
00:42:22
Speaker
No, man. I deeply appreciate that. Like I owe a lot of it to like you and Connor keeping me like through this whole, you know, journey. We started this like right when I was like my second semester with PhD and like you guys have known me from my master's time and it's, and it's like, but you two have always kept me grounded and you know, like been that constant and it's, it's been, like I've been, you know, I get those Facebook notifications. I like look back to like hell gap where I'm wearing letters and I'm harassing a rattlesnake. And it's like, I would never do that now. You know, it's like,
00:42:50
Speaker
You know, I can see it and it's just like this, especially this past field school, right? Where it was, now I'm a PhD candidate, I'm on my way out. And the way I treat students, I treated students since this year was much different than what I treated before. And even when I was at Wyoming, it was just like, you know, I didn't, the first two weeks at the field school, I was, I didn't like yell to yell. It was more like, I need your attention. Listen, cause like right now you're not allowed to think, I think for you. And then the last three weeks is more of like,
00:43:18
Speaker
as colleagues, let's talk this through. What are you noticing? Look at your unit compared to the others. Do you see there's a height difference between your pedestals and their pedestals? What about the landforms? Really taking that mentorship role of, let's think about this critically and contextualize your unit, your little one by one as comparison to the other 30 one by ones you have going around.
00:43:38
Speaker
and really having those moments and teaching these students in, I thought, meaningful ways. To go from like, because you were a drill sergeant before, is what I think you called yourself, or like, you know, I think that was your approach is like, you know, we're here to get you into shape and to learn stuff, you know, I'm going to be a little rough, but also taking the next step and mentoring and teaching is a huge step. I mean, it's,
00:44:07
Speaker
Not everyone does that well. No, not everyone does that well. It freaked out students at first because it was usually it was like me just kind of being loud like, Hey, we need to get this done. Where are you? Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. And there's just one day after I was talking to students at the bar, they were just, they were just like, why are you so like, it's weird. Cause like that excavation, you're and we're scared of you, but when we're out of excavation, like at the house or so, you're just different.
00:44:32
Speaker
Like what's going on? I was trying to explain it to him and then the next day we're at work. I was like, I was like, okay, I think we've hit that point. And so then I was like, all right, guys, let's, let's get the site ready. Like, let's go. And like, just like a bunch of dudes, like, is everything okay? Like what's wrong? I'm like, nothing's wrong. Like we're just trying to get work done. They're like, you're not yelling at anyone. I'm like, I don't need to yell.
00:44:49
Speaker
Like, oh, are you sure? I'm like, no, no, you guys are, you guys are fine. And it was, I don't know what got into me. It was like, when you're closing that, putting the site together all night, I was just like, all right, guys, let's go ahead. And they're like, whoa, what is happening? Like they were, they were just like, wait a second. And, and like, it just, I just switched. I'm like, we,
00:45:12
Speaker
do you guys know what you're doing now? Like we should be good to go. And then I think that changed. And I saw a much with the students. They're like, okay, wait, you know, towards the end, like they were, they weren't scared to ask me questions anymore. And so like I had a lot of students like approaching me and asking me stuff cause like, all right, what's going on? So, uh, I have a question. So do the answers get better? Cause I know you like all put them on.
00:45:36
Speaker
It's so hilariously bad. Like everyone failed. I think there was like one question that I saw in all those questions on your stories. They're like, okay, what, what, what pottery types are here? And everyone's like, yeah, drink water. Okay. But if they got it right, they still drink water. Yeah. So people were like, this is my favorite thing ever. Don't stop this.
00:45:59
Speaker
I think after a while, like Dr. Bamforth and Dr. Carlton needed work, you know, because I just go around harassing students and putting on Instagram. So we didn't give them, I'm not sure why, like usually we give students articles to read beforehand. This year we didn't, like we kind of waited till halfway through. And so that, and then also halfway through, that's when our lectures were. So like when we were doing those questions, they shouldn't have known the answers unless they were like, listen, they should have been,
00:46:23
Speaker
if they had been listening to us, they would have known it. And also kind of, and so towards the end, after the presentations and the readings and we've given out, then like, Oh, okay. We know what this is. So you got towards the end, they were, you know, and there's still some students that are like struggling, but, uh, better. They got better. I was like, it was just so funny to me. I mean, but I also, you're trying to learn like all the excavation techniques and remember everything that you're learning. Like I, I get that that's like an overwhelming thing for them.
00:46:50
Speaker
But they all got the hypotenuse of a one by one. That was a 1.414 or something like that, or 1.141, I'd have to look, but they got it. They think it's for us, people can't do math. Yeah, I had it. I haven't written it down my note. And there was also times, because I'd get, especially, you know how it goes. As the excavation goes on, the students get better. There's less for a supervisor to do. So I just started asking them, when did the paleoindian start? And Dr. Banford and Dr. Carlson were just,
00:47:19
Speaker
they were just laughed because I would just like pace the units, just like lecturing about like, how do we know this? I was just like soccer teams at the unit. It's just like, just because I, and like it was, it was funny. And like some of my students, like, cause there was a bunch there that I had taught like years ago. And it was like crazy to see some of those kids that were freshmen and sophomores that take my class, now seniors and juniors. And there, and it was, what was really fascinating to me is like a lot of them remembered my lectures.
00:47:47
Speaker
and would talk and they're like, Oh yeah, we know this Carlton went on a fucking rant about this in class. And so, and so we, and so I just kind of go around and like, you know, students enjoyed it. They're like, you know, and I, but I started getting in trouble because like then students would stop excavating and think and listen. And then, you know, Dr. Banford, Dr. Carlson, and the other GA would be like,
00:48:07
Speaker
you know, diggy, diggy. You have to talk and answer, like dig and answer and think at the same time. And so I kept getting them sidetracked by just being like, money mentality. You're like, why is collapse problematic? And like, you know, just like, how do we understand? And they're, and you know, and the students enjoyed it and I wish I could have done more, but like towards the end, I was getting burnt out from some, for other reasons.
00:48:27
Speaker
that were present that I was just like, I was just there to, you know, make sure they weren't messing things up. But I wish I can, I just can't picture. Excavation is any different now. It's like Play-Doh or Socrates, like up at the top. Everyone's just sitting there. Yeah, just in the short shorts. Just let them away, like looking up, like, oh, we're learning today. But one of my favorite things is because there are so many students and like everyone has had like, I always have a hard time remembering students. So I did these like Fight Club
00:48:57
Speaker
competition. So like, I'd like have a proposal and I'd go around secretly to the students like who's going to win in this fight. And at first it was just like a straight up fish fight. But then I was like doing goofy stuff like, okay, this man has whole cans and this woman has a lightsaber. Who's winning? And like, I ended up getting like such great match ups that it always came down to like 16, 14. Like they got always really close and people were like, well, they, they really had to think.
00:49:21
Speaker
And so I think we had like a whole tournament and trying to figure things out. And it was just like, it was like students, like they would just start dying laughing with some of the ones that I came up with. And so, and they just kind of like, how do you think of this? Like, why does, why, why does she have like giant crap claws? Like, where do you think of this? I don't know.
00:49:40
Speaker
It really is amazing. At my field school, at the end of our field school, when everyone's gelling together, and I think this happens up to most places, is that you get this like, hey, you guys just gelled together as a team. And we had a competition where people were all wearing costumes
00:49:58
Speaker
and there were atlatl competitions and we were all speaking in accents. I was one of the commentators speaking in a British accent while this is being recorded on something and narrating the whole thing. It just all happens like that. I know in Wyoming, they had a beer tasting competition or a shitty light beer competition to figure out which one was the best.
00:50:21
Speaker
Yeah. We had, we had field school games set up. So like Olympic style games, like ready to go, but just, it got to crunch time. We weren't where we needed to be. And so like, we weren't able to do some of that, especially that last week, it was like, this is it. And we're not where we need to be, you know, because we weren't where we thought we were going to be and where we're at. So it was like,
00:50:40
Speaker
couldn't do field school games, but maybe next time, you know, it was also like as a GA, right? Especially, you know, I learned a lot from Dr. Banforth and Dr. Carlson, how to run the excavation. Like that's what I was kind of really there for. So I chatted with him about that. Like, how do we, you know, so it was like, even for me, it's still learning.
00:50:57
Speaker
And I think a lot more graduate students when they're in those roles should remember that you're still, you know, you're there as an intermediary, like you were expected to know some things, but also it's okay to ask for advice between other senior graduate students and also the PIs like you're also there to learn. So that's kind of what I took from that because I've seen
00:51:15
Speaker
I've had a host of different experiences, right? Like from high precision vertical excavations on rock shelters in Wyoming to like now horizontal, you know, different strategies of excavation and from so many different mentors. And it's just like, how do you synthesize all that? Like how Bob takes a different approach to Marcel than Jesse, than Doug and Casey, like
00:51:41
Speaker
They're all coming at it from different lenses and from different things. And so I looked at it as like, okay, and I reflect on this past field school, what would I have done differently? Because I'm about to be in their shoes in two summers that I have to get ready for. It's like, I'm going to be running a field school.
00:51:55
Speaker
31 to 32 year old Carlton, because my birthday will be in the field. How is, how is this clown going to do it in a way that doesn't make people want to burn the site down and leave the field forever? So that's, you know, I saw, I've been this past week, not only sleeping in and enjoying, um, not being surrounded by 35 people.
00:52:15
Speaker
in a Catholic hospital slash Airbnb slash chapel without internet and stuff. Now I can't just ignore people, can say, oh, I didn't have service. Now I actually have to respond. Now it's just like, what's up to next? Yeah, we'll see what's going on to next. And hopefully Carlton will be back on another podcast. Thank you so much for coming on. Would you choose to live a life in ruins?
00:52:39
Speaker
Yes, Connor, I would and I'll be on next episode and for a while, unfortunately, we'll get back on to our regular scheduled programming. Sources or literature recommendations that you have? You can get you on social media. Yeah, you guys all know it.
00:52:57
Speaker
I do want to recommend, I do for anyone that is interested in Plains archeology, which I hope more people do. The archeology of the North American Great Plains by Douglas B. Bamforth came out in 2022, Cambridge Press, it's his magnum opus. I think it's like the first time someone has single authored an entire compendium of Plains archeology since Waldo Weidl in the 1960s. So for those that are interested, Lynch has mentioned heavily in this. I have a little piece where Dr. Bamforth thanks me.
00:53:24
Speaker
And so if you're interested in Great Pines archeology, Lynch is in there and as well as some of the transformative things we're doing. So check that out. I'll be in the show notes and anything written by Carlton Gover, just look it up on
Call for Listener Support
00:53:38
Speaker
academia. There's ton of it.
00:53:39
Speaker
Yep, that's there. And oh, by the way, if you're listening to this show and it all shows for you, please considering subscribing to our show and downloading directly from a life for us podcast. Not only does it help our show grow, but also allows us basically data to give to potential sponsors and advertisers that help support and fund the show. Cause eventually in order for us to do more dynamic and interesting podcast episodes and also content on Instagram and YouTube,
00:54:09
Speaker
It helps that we don't pour all of our money into it. So help us. It would be nice to make money. Right now it's all pro bono. So with that, we are out.
00:54:27
Speaker
Thanks for listening to a life in ruins podcast. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at a life in ruins podcast. And you can also email us at a life in ruins podcast at gmail.com. And remember, make sure to bring your archeologists in from the cold and feed them beer.
00:54:43
Speaker
So this is Connor's crappy joke time. Crappy joke time. It's the new jingle. What do you call a paper airplane that can't fly? Trash. Stationary. Hilarious Connor. That's actually really good. I like it stationary. I like it. I like it. All right. And with that, we are truly out.
00:55:22
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, Dig Tech LLC, Culturo Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Chris Webster. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archapodnet.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.