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41. ‘The Joshua Tree’ - U2 (1987)
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Episode 41: ‘The Joshua Tree’ - U2 (1987)
‘U-Two Americas’
Fresh from multiple tours in support of ‘The Unforgettable Fire’, U2 wanted to continue their trajectory and momentum of their ambient, atmospheric music, but with a harder hitting end product - ‘The Joshua Tree’ certainly hit that mark becoming the fastest selling album in British history and selling over 25 million copies.
Having immersed themselves in American culture and history during a tour, the working title of ‘Two Americas’ would be the thematic base for this album. Musically, they sought to combine their Irish heritage with their new found love for the American Blues and Country - and, lyrically, adding in their distaste for its politics, this album transformed U2 from music stars to global superstars.
Bono’s passionate vocals combined with The Edge’s minimalistic guitar parts resonated with audiences around the world and presented us with an easy to listen to album filled with passion, fire, suffering, soul and love.
Episode 41 Playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5q1X2ifOYCM1YwOP7Hg1dh?si=e8-xXXYdTsmV6GMq8yVmfA
LONG LIVE ROCK ‘N’ ROLL
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- Podcast Music by GeriArt, NaturesEye, astrofreq, Twisterium from Pixabay
- Podcast Art by Ross Davidson (@ross_feelshame)
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Transcript
Introduction and Welcome
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello there and welcome back to another episode of the Long Live Rock and Roll Podcast. I mean, do we need to say our names anymore? But just in case you knew, I'm Laz and on the screen opposite me is Felipe. How you doing, bro? I'm doing just fine in here, brother. Good. Yeah, very well. Thank you, man. Very well. Hello, everyone. What have you been doing? Anything special?
Felipe's Gigging Adventures and Beard Challenge
00:00:20
Speaker
Just another another week in Soho, gigging?
00:00:23
Speaker
Yes, another weekend. So, playing gigs and having a good time. Professional. And his beard, for those who can't see, his beard is getting really long. You've got a little arrangement with a friend, haven't you? Yeah, exactly. Andy, who plays guitar in my band. Well, apparently we were not, let's say, completely sober and we agreed to go full-on ZZ Top. And I'm a man of my word. I regret doing this, but I said I would do it, so I'm doing it.
00:00:51
Speaker
So in a few months, in a few months, you're going to see like, you know, brothers eating top style beard. We're going to post regular updates on the Instagram, right? Felipe is going to take a selfie every week and you guys can see how long the beard will grow, right? That would be great. I'll do that. They can't see it now. They can't see it. You've got to send me a photo because they can't see it, can they? Obviously. OK, I'll send you a photo. And by the end of the year, I intend to work at Santa Claus.
00:01:19
Speaker
the
Introduction to U2's The Joshua Tree
00:01:20
Speaker
brazilian version anyway let's crack on so today we're doing another album which was chosen by me um the album is the joshua tree by u2 and i chose it because
00:01:37
Speaker
I'd heard the hits, like many people, with or without you, obviously, the very, very famous song. I'd heard the hits and I'd heard that everyone was sort of complimenting this album above all the others of U2. With U2, I know that they've got certain hits and good songs.
00:01:55
Speaker
sprinkled throughout other albums, but the Joshua Tree, I've been told, is the one to go to. So that's what I thought before I listened to the album. Well, did you have any, I mean, did you know this album before I suggested it?
U2's Impact and Musical Evolution
00:02:10
Speaker
I knew the album, but I was obviously more familiar with the first four songs, which are the ones that everyone knows. And well, at school, when I was a teenager, long ago,
00:02:26
Speaker
I was into like Dire Straits and most of my friends were into YouTube. So for me, I didn't like it. I like the more rock and roll stuff, the 10 minute long songs and stuff like that. But those two bands are from the same era, from like the post punk.
00:02:44
Speaker
time when you think about it and so I was familiar with U2's most famous albums because we would like swap CDs around you know like you know listen to this and listen to that and yeah I listened to a couple of that stuff back in the day and obviously they were always
00:03:02
Speaker
on MTV and everyone knows all the hits and I think they are kind of mandatory in terms of if you need to know something about YouTube, if you need to rock or pop music and they are right there in their grey area between rock and pop. I consider them much more like a pop band and not in a bad way.
00:03:25
Speaker
Yeah, but they have some elements of rock and roll and I think you made a good choice with this album because this would be out of the earliest stuff they'd done, maybe the most rock kind of vibe, probably.
The Joshua Tree Recording Process
00:03:42
Speaker
Is that true? Because I don't know much other stuff. I know a song that was on the War album that I loved called The Sweetest Thing.
00:03:50
Speaker
Beautiful Day from a later album was always the opening music for the match of the day, the Football Highlights. They did Vertigo, that must have been about 10 years ago now, so they've had these hits, even from recent and early albums that everyone knows, but as a complete album, this is the one, isn't it, that aligns itself most with rock.
00:04:13
Speaker
Yes, and they sound pretty much like a band. They've done a few albums by this time, and they knew which direction they were going to. They really knew what they were doing here, in my opinion. They actually wanted to do that. They said that they wanted to take the atmospheric, ambient,
00:04:38
Speaker
very texturally heavy music that they were doing in their previous album, The Unforgettable Fire. They wanted to keep that sort of the essence of that out of that music, but make it more hard-hitting. And I think they mean rock in terms of hard-hitting. And they do hit it here, don't they? It is a hard-hitting album. Even if it's in races, it still has its moments that just hit you, isn't it?
00:05:04
Speaker
Well, exactly. There's one interesting thing about them as a unit, as a band, is they never changed the lineup. Really? Yeah, they never did. Well, I think they had a fifth member right at the beginning when they played at school and the guy quit the band, whatever. So they actually never had a lineup change at all. It was the same four guys since
00:05:32
Speaker
early days in school until you know or university I don't know where they met and they started playing together and writing songs and they write songs together. Here's the thing for the critics of YouTube that say you know they're not like a proper rock band. They have something in that it's becoming rare in modern music
00:05:53
Speaker
when you go and pre-produce an album. There's loads of people do their guide tracks, you know, for those who are not familiar with that. It's like, let's say the singer or the producer or the songwriter is going to record just piano and vocals or acoustic guitar and vocals, and then send it to the producers, send it to the other musicians, and everyone adds their layers of instruments that record drums and bass and keyboards.
00:06:17
Speaker
And everything is produced in a way that the musicians don't even have to see each other in order to produce an album. I've recorded albums like this for like as a fashion musician for people. And even with some of my own bands, you don't see each other just, you know, listening to pre-recorded stuff and recording stuff on top of it. So there's no real time interaction. And you two, they're famous for getting into studio as a four piece and jamming.
00:06:44
Speaker
until they get a riff or a groove or something that resembles the core of what can be a song. So they just do it in a very old school way. I think they still do it like that also, which is great. That would really explain. I mean, we'll do the normal thing. I'll do it now, the album information.
00:07:04
Speaker
The album named The Joshua Tree Artist U2 released the 9th of March 1987. Length is 50 minutes and the genre is sort of rock slash pop and it was produced by Brian Eno of Roxy Music and Daniel Lanoirs who, coincidentally, both of them produced the previous U2 album. But the reason that I came to this information is because the recording process lasted from January 1986 to January 1987.
00:07:34
Speaker
one whole gig of writing, prep, recording, producing, layering, everything. And it kind of when I first saw that, I thought, wow, like, I mean, myself and my wife on our heavy metal channel, we just did a progressive metal album, which by a band called Opeth that have loads of like 12 minute songs. And that only took three or four months.
00:07:58
Speaker
But yeah, you too, shorter songs, not many chord changes, nothing intricate like a progressive metal album, but still took one whole year to complete. But when you listen to it and the layers in each song, you can understand why, can't you? Exactly. And here's the thing, when you say nothing intricate, we tend to, we usually tend to analyze things and the
00:08:23
Speaker
musicianship point of field in terms of how technically good or how technically challenging is a riff or a solo and stuff like that. And many people who are into rock music also analyze the style like that, isn't it? Like, oh, you know, this is interesting, doesn't look like complicated.
00:08:46
Speaker
that makes that song hard to perform and record. Yeah, but when you think not playing a note is a decision that might take hours, you need to try different notes and say, no, I'm not doing this, I'm not doing that. And to keep it simple sometimes means you
00:09:05
Speaker
you're removing stuff maybe you came up with lots of stuff you remove and try to make it simple and also find the perfect guitar tone uh you know um here's an interesting thing how many guitar solos there there are in this album it's no solos no no the dh doesn't play solos he simply doesn't never
00:09:27
Speaker
So and he's criticized by that. I've heard things.
U2 and Modern Technology Frustrations
00:09:33
Speaker
Here's something we need to say about YouTube. There's so many jokes about them and people like to take the piss out of YouTube, especially rock fans. But it's undeniable that they are one of the biggest rock bands of all time. So that's it, like it or not.
00:09:57
Speaker
And I have my own favorite jokes about them. One of them is like, I've seen this like a fake, fake article saying all recent research shows that no one ever liked you to they just pretended to like no other to please their friends who also pretending to like you. Well, the world of music is just one conspiracy net wherever they like you to.
00:10:22
Speaker
I've got something to add to that and I may as well do. I've noted it here. We're going to do it as a Laz Unleashed. Wow. So in this instalment of Laz Unleashed, you two are going to get my fury. So a few years ago, I don't know how many years ago actually it was, you two made a deal with Apple.
00:10:45
Speaker
to pre-install their new album on every Apple iPhone user's phone. So I still have that.
00:10:54
Speaker
Bro, every time I get in the car, the new album starts to fucking play. I'm sorry for my language, but every time I see you two on my car, I get pissed off because I, stop playing the song. And I don't even like the music of this newer album, whatever it's called. And I'm just driving, like, if I just want to go to the shops, sometimes I don't put music on if I want to go to the shop. Sometimes I just listen to the radio or just have nothing. And I'll be like, yeah,
00:11:22
Speaker
10 seconds out of my driveway, down the road, and then out of nowhere, but my phone connects. Suddenly you hear Bono just screaming out loud. I'm like, fuck off. It really winds me up because I will not play music I don't want to listen to, even if it's my favorite band, even if it's Metallica. If I don't want to listen to Metallica one morning, I won't play them. So for someone, for you two to have done a deal with Apple and for Apple to say, you've got to have them on your phone,
00:11:51
Speaker
Oh man, it really was. Isn't this the most Laz Unleashed moment we've ever had? Because I'm really pissed off about it. And I think Bono was good friends with Steve Jobs and I think what they did, they probably got together and said, what's the most annoying thing we can possibly do together?
00:12:09
Speaker
No, they were trying to. I think they were trying to, you know, let's release an album in a way that is going to be a best-selling album without actually selling immediately. You know, everyone is going to have it.
00:12:25
Speaker
Yeah. I was like, cool, but can I just have the option to not have it? Can I just click on? You can't. You can't. It's going to be a message like they should send you a picture of Bono and Steve Jobs saying, hello, we've got something for you. Do you want it? And you just say, no, I don't want that. Anyway, but this is part of them. I think I think you two never accepted should be
00:12:50
Speaker
Anything, yes. Everything has to be huge. Everything has to cause an impact. Everything has to have pun intended religious proportions.
U2's American Influence
00:13:04
Speaker
Because that's what it is. That's the other thing. We're talking about the band in a generic way. One thing that connects this album to the whole
00:13:20
Speaker
history of U2 is like they came from two really successful albums and this was the third consecutive album to reach, let me double check this, yes, number one in the UK. But the most important thing is not that they had the third consecutive number one album in the UK but they had their first one
00:13:45
Speaker
the first number one hit in America. That is the most important thing. I think there was no other band from Ireland or from let's say any other foreign band, a non-American band that embraced American culture as well as they did. And you think about it's so interesting, like how many Irish people live in America and when they had to make a living.
00:14:14
Speaker
It's that classic thing of people moving to another country and embracing the culture and being part of it. And I think they tried really hard and they achieved at some point that connection with American roots in terms of music. There's elements of folk and blues in the album, which you can't find in some of the recent stuff.
00:14:40
Speaker
You're absolutely right, man. And I was reading a lot about this. They're actually, from the success of the Unforgettable Fire, they then toured the world. They did a few different tours sort of in different areas of the world. And they went to America and they really immersed themselves in the culture. Bono said he actually felt a little embarrassed. So check this out.
00:14:59
Speaker
When they were in America. He hung out with Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, whilst they were there. And Keith Richards and Mick Jagger was sort of educating him about blues and country music and Bono said himself he was embarrassed that he didn't know the genre as well enough.
00:15:17
Speaker
At that moment, he realised that having come from the punk rock era, as you said, you two didn't really have an established tradition, so to speak, of music. So what they did is then you found love for the American music and culture. Then he also in the same sort of
00:15:36
Speaker
bracket of this tour, he then went back to Ireland and worked with a band called The Water Boys and Hot House Flowers and gave these bands gave him a sense of pride about being Irish. So for this album you can quite, I wouldn't say overly obviously, but you can hear the Irish and the American influence in this music, aren't you?
00:16:00
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. You can hear it. It's there. And it's there. And it's interesting, because when you think about Irish and traditional American music, the one thing that they lack is proper use of technology, because we're talking about really, really old, you know, traditional music, you know, folk music in Ireland.
The Edge's Guitar Innovations
00:16:21
Speaker
That's a really good point, bro. Yeah, what it is, you're talking about percussion, acoustic guitars, harmonicas.
00:16:28
Speaker
so basic instrumentation and it's about the lyrics and how you deliver that and there's no and you too they were they were so good in that transition in terms of okay how do we apply more than music technology to this and some of this stuff in the album still sounds very modern like the guitar tones and
00:16:46
Speaker
It's 1987, for instance. You listen to it now on those guitar tones. There's an interesting thing. I've sent you these links about a documentary called He Might Get Loud with this Jack White, Jimmy Page and The Edge discussing the history of guitar and their influences in the guitar plays. It's about like three mates talking about guitars.
00:17:09
Speaker
which I get to see every week at the jam sessions. So it's basically that, you know, three generations of guitar players talking about guitars. And there's one, and it's going to be available in the links, isn't it? We always put the links in. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:17:28
Speaker
There's one of the edge with his gear and it's a ridiculous guitar, a gigantic pedal that actually connects all the effects.
00:17:42
Speaker
and he has one setting per song. And although he uses certain effects that are pretty much the same, he has a different configuration, like a very specific thing per song on the tour. And then he plays a couple of chords on the guitar and says, that's it.
00:18:00
Speaker
and you look at it and say, okay, well, then you can see it's just like normal folk guitar strumming. And when he adds the effects, it's like a keyboard and an electric guitar at the same time, and he got all those layers. So he's sometimes criticized by that, because he's not a great guitar player, he's a pedal player, not guitar player. He's just doing the effects well. But I think the best definition for the Edge is he's a sound designer.
00:18:29
Speaker
He designs layers of sounds for guitars that no one else has done it. Until that point, you can't mention a single guitar player, or I don't know of anyone who has done anything similar. That's heavily present in this album, and it's a big part of it. The very first song where the streets have no name,
00:18:53
Speaker
and still haven't found what I'm looking for. All those songs, they rely so much on the guitar tone and effect to actually be the foundation of the riff, isn't it? The effect is as important as the notes he's playing.
00:19:14
Speaker
Yeah, no, definitely. And, you know, like you said, he's I have also obviously seen the criticism of him for that, for those reasons. But, you know, if the technology is available to you and you can and this is what you want to sound like, then why the hell not go for it? But you're right. You know, the first two songs, what are the ones you got in God's country?
00:19:36
Speaker
the exit, you know, those songs, they all have a foundation mainly based on rhythm. You think about, you know, the 16th note chug on, is it streets have no name? And there's just this underlying beat and rhythm that goes on throughout it. And it is just phenomenal, man, because you did say earlier that
00:20:03
Speaker
it sounds like it could be produced today. And I think it does. I think the production on this album is absolutely phenomenal because it does sound like it could have been recorded yesterday. There's nothing about the album where you say, oh, well, you know, yeah, the guitar playing is good, but the sound lets it down. It's like the world in your head. You know, if you if you put your headphones on, close your eyes, you're just transported to this world of atmosphere and ambience and minimalism and
00:20:32
Speaker
guitar tones and delay and reverb and chorus and everything's going on. It is just phenomenal. It is amazing. Do you know what? There's another thing which I believe, how many albums recorded in the 80s have a drum sound that's not dated?
Rhythm Section's Role in U2's Sound
00:20:52
Speaker
Because even listen to the drums in the 80s, oh my god, that's the 80s again, they're like ridiculous reverb on this near. And it's like, it's just boring. And the drums are really cool, this album. They left all the effects and all the technology to the guitar and drums and bass are just very straightforward in terms of
00:21:17
Speaker
of tuning and sounding and everything. And and one interesting thing about Adam Clayton and what's the name of the drummer? I forgot. How can I know? Larry Mullen Jr. Larry. So they they do. You know, this is a bass player and I know this is a drummer. Our job is to make guitar players and singers sound good. And it's I think
00:21:47
Speaker
Yes, in this album they've done that to the highest level, in my opinion.
00:21:59
Speaker
I would never think I mean, if I if I could travel back in time and talk to my to my teenage self in school, I said, like, I would say in 20 years time, you're going to be recording a podcast episode defending YouTube. And that would be out being shock. Change. But here's the thing. One one
00:22:23
Speaker
a heavy criticism that people have about them is they're not that good as musicians.
U2's Genre Classification Debate
00:22:30
Speaker
And it raises the question, does it matter?
00:22:36
Speaker
Yeah, well, that's a good point and a good question. I mean, I think ultimately the answer obviously is no, it doesn't. But what that question allows me to think is that if I'm in the mood to be defining and organizing, does them not being good at their instruments actually make them a pop band?
00:22:58
Speaker
because you kind of associate rock with people who are, this sounds like a horrible thing to say about you too, but you associate rock music with original talent, with good guitar players, guitar solos, drummers that can rock with their bass players, whereas pop, you associate more maybe with people behind the scenes writing music because the artist can't write music and then they just sing it. So it's funny, isn't it? Because they're using the instruments of a rock thing. And actually, you know, Bono said about that. He said,
00:23:28
Speaker
They intentionally stepped away from conventional songwriting structures during the 80s. He wanted to focus on the primary colours of music. I don't want to patronise you because I think it's in English. Do you know what primary colours like the term?
00:23:43
Speaker
means. Yeah, for anyone that doesn't know, the primary colors are green, red and blue. And the idea is that if you mix any of these colors together to a certain degree, you can have all the other colors. So Bono said that he wanted to focus on the primary colors of rock music, which is the bass, the guitar and the drums. So because they felt really out of touch with what was going on in the 80s, the synth pop and the new wave music of the time. And I think that is reflected, you know, maybe
00:24:12
Speaker
maybe that the layers and layers of guitar is covering up the edge's inability to come up with riffs or to write a solo, for example. But again, I'd sort of reflect back on your question. Here's the thing though, if you give his guitar rig as it is to any other guitar player and say, I want you to come up with a riff using these effects,
00:24:38
Speaker
Because when you change the instrument, you change the way you play.
Effects in U2's Songwriting
00:24:42
Speaker
A new guitar makes you sound different, makes you think in a different way, play in a different way. And then those effects became part of who it is. It's a bit of a curse. It's got to play like that every time because that's what people expect from you.
00:24:58
Speaker
But those effects are an essential part of his songwriting. So he's skipping all those steps that you have from, oh, this is a riff I wrote on acoustic guitar, and then I'm going to think about something to enhance the sound of this. Now, he goes straight to the end of it, like here's all the effects and everything at the same time. It's like he's doing the final production as his writing, the riff.
00:25:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's fine-tuning the details, isn't it? Yeah, that the lack of solos, I mean, it goes unnoticed for me, and that's one big thing. Just to mention one thing, it's going on the soft market. Just about the lack of solos, it's almost like that when a new layer comes in,
00:25:47
Speaker
that is almost the solo. You've been so used to a specific rhythm and a specific layer of guitar that all he might do, you know I've listened to this album three times over the last couple of days so I'm a bit lost as to what songs what but there is it could be the first one where the streets have no name with the guitar there's like this little lick that's like that sounds a bit funky but it's much more delayed and reverb in the track and
00:26:14
Speaker
Although that is just a little guitar melody that he's repeating, because of all the textures and layers that are there before, that feels like a solo coming in. And I don't mind that it's not complicated. It feels like a special melody that's been added purely for the purpose of adding another melody. And I think it's great. Well, that is an interesting thing. It's even hard to try to sync the riffs because you can't sync the delays. Exactly.
00:26:41
Speaker
You're right. It's an interesting process, like when you think about writing things, considering those effects as part of the melody, because you can't sing those things, you've got to have them in your mind. So that has everything to do with the fact they knew what they were doing. When you consider they are like a post-punk band, that was a unique moment in rock history, because
00:27:08
Speaker
everything lasted for a certain period of time like early rock and roll emerged into the psychedelic stuff in the 60s and the hard rock and the rock rock in the 70s and you had bands doing those things for decades and
00:27:25
Speaker
punk was, in my opinion, the first major disruption in the rock scene. And we're talking about technical abilities and individual musical abilities. Punk musicians are like, okay, we can't actually play, but we can write songs. So that's why I'm saying it doesn't matter that you come and play. For that genre, it doesn't
00:27:50
Speaker
is actually good that you're not that good as a musician under a technical point of view. And those guys are the first punk musicians, first punk bands. That's it. We're going to break the system. We're going to turn it upside down, do something completely different. So YouTube came out of that scene. So they started when that was dying. And they were like, because then, yeah, after this major disruption, what do you come up with?
00:28:16
Speaker
You can't do the same thing. You can't just like, oh, look at me, I can't play, but I can write songs. So I think they were really important in the construction of what rock music could be and how we could still be popular in playing the radio.
Bono's Lyricism on Religion and Politics
00:28:31
Speaker
Bono had an interesting point about with or without you being a song that had loads of radio play, because he said in terms of textures and sounds and on the whole context and even the lyrics not being very direct, not very obvious.
00:28:46
Speaker
uh he said it was it was an interesting breakthrough and and it was actually good that you had a rock band playing pop music and getting loads of radio play and i think that is is is actually remarkable it's not my favorite song by the way i don't think it's one of their greatest songs no no i agree yeah but that's a that's fantastically interesting and that is that is crazy because i didn't actually make that link between the the punk and the um
00:29:13
Speaker
and them saw, like you said, a band that realized, okay, we're not the best musicians, but we have talent and creativity within us. Talking of talent, I mean, Bono, for all of his flaws and all of his issues, and you know, I don't mind the guy, he's a little annoying at times, but for all of them, he can write bloody good lyrics, can't he?
00:29:36
Speaker
He can. And the delivery as well. So here's an interesting thing about it. He delivers really well because he is not afraid of singing long notes. So there's something about him. I think that helped a lot now, like looking back at the time when my classmates were listening to YouTube, because he pronounces every word, like clearly,
00:29:59
Speaker
So I couldn't tell. I mean, maybe my experience talking to most Irish people that I'm meeting pubs and everyone had a pint or two. I just I don't understand half of what they say. Joking. No offense to the Irish. So basically, it's interesting how he made
00:30:20
Speaker
I think he wanted to be clear in every single verse, in every single line of every single song. Clear with the pronunciation, clear with the singing long notes and make sure you can understand what he's saying. But the lyrics are not that simple and straightforward. He said he writes some blood
00:30:39
Speaker
bloody good lyrics, and I'll say what I think about that. He touches two subjects that I'm not a big fan of in music, and I'll tell you what it is, religion and politics. And why I'm not a big fan, because that might even surprise you, because I'm a big fan of talking about these things. I love talking about religion and politics, and I read loads and loads about it.
00:31:03
Speaker
And I think they're great topics when you have someone right in front of you and they can be debated. So I will say something to you and they say, well, maybe I don't want to agree with that. I think this could be the other way around. And then you can reply when you have a microphone and gigantic speakers and you just throw your religious and political opinions over like that.
00:31:27
Speaker
on everyone's faces and they don't have a microphone to talk back to you. It's a bit like, well, yeah, cool.
00:31:36
Speaker
good for you to have a strong opinion about stuff, but no one can actually fight back in the context of a rock state of the gig. Because, okay, not everyone needs to be aware of the motivation behind the lyrics. When they come to the gig, they want to have a good time. And then you go there and throw your politics on them and they're like, all right, can I have the microphone, please? No, we can't. So I'm not being fun. I believe
00:32:04
Speaker
And bands like the Foo Fighters and Kiss, they were really clear about this. We don't want to talk politics. We want people to come to the gig and forget about politics and religion and everything and just have a good time. But what I'm saying is I'm giving Bond a big compliment on this because he touches those subjects. I don't know about the gigs. I don't know how far he goes in terms of talking because I've never been to their gigs and I haven't watched many of their live shows.
00:32:31
Speaker
in terms of how the way he writes the lyrics, that's what I believe. It's very rock and roll, which is, here's my opinion in a poetic way, and you have to decipher it if you want to, and you can make it your own if you interpret my lyrics in a different way.
00:32:53
Speaker
Yeah, he almost tells his own story, doesn't he, with each song and sort of manipulates it to a way that gets his point of view across. But yeah, like you said, yeah, yeah, very good point. The lyrics.
00:33:07
Speaker
The funny thing is that they cover quite a broad range of sort of subjects within a bigger thematic idea, which is that it is America.
American Themes in The Joshua Tree
00:33:18
Speaker
America was the theme of this album. Bono quite heavily pushed it onto the other band, but he felt very strongly because the working title for this album was actually called Two Americas before it was called The Joshua Tree. And that's because when they toured America, as I mentioned earlier,
00:33:37
Speaker
He felt like he saw two sides. He saw the history. He saw the culture. He saw the music. And then on the other side, he saw the politics, which he really, really disliked. At that time, you had the Reagan presidency going on. Where else was there? There was something else. Oh, yeah. And he wasn't happy with the foreign policy of America was implementing in Central America.
00:34:06
Speaker
And in particular, you know, a couple of these songs reference the civil war in El Salvador. The last song, Mothers of the Disappeared, is about the mothers of the rebels in that civil war who went missing. Yeah, so the thing is, I have an interesting point about that the mothers of the Plaza de Mayo, I think, started in Argentina. It does say that the group still active in Argentina and Chile, and Comandres
00:34:34
Speaker
from El Salvador. So those were mothers of people who disappeared or were kidnapped or assassinated, or you don't use assassination for people who are not important, isn't it? Weird, not important. People are important. You know, it's like, it's funny, but people who were murdered by government action, right? And specifically,
00:34:58
Speaker
America's action in those countries. So what you have is like common people, so that's it, people who are classified, there's no importance, so no one cares about them, is that it? Or politicians don't care about them. And we have those, the mothers of Plaza de Mayo, because I'm South American, I've seen loads of photos of that, and it was in the news, it's still probably talked about. And it's like those people are still there saying, so what happened to our kids?
00:35:27
Speaker
still and and and that is well that that is a obviously very very political song but he doesn't go straight to your face and say america was wrong because they did that it's like well wait a minute that does he's talking about the pain of those people they lost someone they don't know what happened to that person and that was a really evil influenced by big institution which is the american government in there so i just want to say one interesting thing
00:35:56
Speaker
But the fact that he shows his love for American folk music. That's what I was going to say. Yeah. Yeah. On the other hand, he shows his hate for the the political actions. That for me is a really beautiful
00:36:16
Speaker
differentiation of what is a country and a culture and its people and what is the government and the politics of a country. Absolutely, Manny, I completely agree. I've got that written somewhere, I think it's probably in my monologue at the end. But that's what fascinated me is that, you know, there is such a heavy imagery with this desert, you know, you can see on the front cover, the desert therein, that's just a typical American desert. And they were fascinated by this imagery. Listen to what Adam Clayton said about the desert.
00:36:46
Speaker
The desert was immensely inspirational to us as a mental image for this record. Most people would take the desert on face value and think it's some kind of barren place, which of course is true. But in the right frame of mind, it's also a very positive image because you can actually do something with a blank canvas, which is effectively what the desert is. And what that says to me is that you can look at an American desert and you can choose to see the
00:37:16
Speaker
controversial political topics that the American government have been responsible for. Or you can see everything that is good about America, the culture, the people, the history, the music. And bro, isn't this just a slight off topic thing? Isn't this crazy that two weeks ago we spoke about Breakfast in America by Supertramp? And it's kind of, isn't it?
00:37:38
Speaker
But again, yeah, it's the same thing. Supertramp kind of criticized, you know, said America's brilliant, but there's a little criticism of the American dream. Bono is saying, well, America and the people and the music's brilliant, but let's criticize the government. Isn't that funny how in two weeks we've done two albums by British bands based on America? But that's that's what it is, isn't it? And like,
00:38:02
Speaker
If you're not capable of assessing the information in that way, like what is, you know, it's like, is U2 a great band? Yeah, I think they are, you know, but why? There's many reasons why you might like or dislike them. And the same thing about the country, same thing about the culture, same thing about whatever. So things are not black and white, things are not that simple, you know, it's like, oh, this is this, this is that. And I think the true artists, they can
00:38:31
Speaker
see that they can actually perceive where there's a line between the good and the bad in everything. They can see that line, and they can cross that line, and they can talk to both sides. That's what I like about that. One other thing
00:38:49
Speaker
going from politics to religion is, and again, let me associate this with the album Kova, because they, they decided to have the desert as the biggest thing in the album Kova, that's it. And they are on the side. Yeah, so they're not at the center. So they are like right on the, if you look, if you're facing the album on the left side, you have them. And most of the cover is just the desert. It's like, which means, and you have all of them facing the camera, but Bono, he's looking
00:39:17
Speaker
to the side. So it means for me that shows there like
00:39:24
Speaker
I know that position like, listen, this is life is mostly a desert, is mostly the unknown. But although they seem to know where they were going to in terms of sound, in terms of groove, in terms of production, the lyrics are very open in a good way. So the religious aspects of the lyrics are really good because there's so many references to the Bible.
Spiritual Undertones in U2's Music
00:39:53
Speaker
Yeah, and like he doesn't say I don't think I don't I'm not quite sure if you mentioned that only on interviews, but still haven't found what I'm looking for.
00:40:05
Speaker
If you can simply listen to it and think, oh, this guy is looking for the perfect girl for him or this woman is looking for the perfect husband or perfect partner or whatever. And it sounds more to me like someone is looking for God, looking for the spiritual answer to all the questions. So the good thing about them. So I usually say that you two are the most successful gospel band in the world.
00:40:30
Speaker
because there are so many of their songs about God and religion, but they didn't get into that thing of flow. Okay, we're a gospel band, we're going to talk about God, because then you would be stuck in a
00:40:48
Speaker
in that trap, which is like, you need to talk about the those principles that ever religion follows, whatever you can't question, you just need to accept and preach. So they're not actually preaching, they're like, well, I'm still looking for, you know, I don't know, I haven't found my God. Well, but I'm looking for, I think there's a really
00:41:11
Speaker
A great point you mentioned about the gospel because it can also be said about his vocals. I mean, if you think the tracks, streets have no name, haven't found what I'm looking for with or without you. What's the other one? The Red Hill Mining Town?
00:41:24
Speaker
in God's country. These are like, Bono is almost putting on a gospel vocal performance, you know, the way he shouts, like, is preaching to someone, you know, the end of with or without you. It feels
00:41:46
Speaker
important to him. It feels like he believes in what he's singing or if he doesn't believe in it that he's singing it for a good cause anyway. And I think throughout the album you hear these gospel influences, not literal, not that he's singing in a way gospel choir would, but just the emotion and the passion that he's putting through.
00:42:07
Speaker
Exactly. Totally agree with that. And I think it seems like his life depends on it. Yeah, you're right. So for that reason, some people might dislike him. They think it's too dramatic or too whatever. But I like it. I think it's it's it's it's one of the most recognizable voices in pop music history. Right. Yeah. And you listen to his voice, you know, it's him.
00:42:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I know you're right. And sticking with sort of the other, you know, the other obviously gospel is a kind of an American sort of genre, if you like.
American Blues and Gospel Influences
00:42:44
Speaker
And sticking with that Americanness, there are a few other American moments I sort of heard within the album.
00:42:51
Speaker
Bullet the Blue Sky. Now that's a great song. I think that's one of my favourites from the album. The bass and the drums just linking up and grooving for the whole song. It really reminded me of a song by Megadeth called Dawn Patrol and as usual guys any song we mention as well as the album will be in a playlist which is at the bottom of the show notes. Bullet the Blue Sky was kind of like
00:43:12
Speaker
some US garage punk rock that was in the late 60s. It's one riff, isn't it? It's one riff, the whole song, yeah. And it feels like, you know, before Heavy Metal came along in the 70s, the US had this garage rock kind of thing going on, which was almost a blend of the punk, some bluesy elements and hard rock and psychedelia. And I feel that this is what that is. Red Hill Mining Town.
00:43:40
Speaker
that he does his vocals in that and it's funny that there's that documentary because there are moments where he sounds exactly like Jack White and I will do my best to find an appropriate Jack White song to put in the playlist so you guys can hear and then the only other parts I had to mention about the American stuff was
00:43:59
Speaker
Running to stand still, you've got the slide guitar at the beginning and you've got the harmonica at the end with the slide guitar. Trip through your lights, a blues drum beat intro and an obvious blues harmonica intro as well.
00:44:15
Speaker
and it actually ends up feeling like a gospel song because a minute in the organ takes charge but i just love that man because you still don't feel like you don't feel like a that you two have gone there stuck a cowboy hat on and said well let's make this album american you know they've stuck
00:44:35
Speaker
They've stuck to their principles, but they've just thrown in, you know, they've littered in little bits of America throughout. And I think that's fantastic. Is there any particular songs you want to discuss for any reason?
00:44:50
Speaker
Taking from that one, because I like when they don't talk about them, so trip through her eyes for all the music connoisseurs out there, that's a 12-8. It's a 12-8 vibe.
00:45:07
Speaker
And for me, it communicates directly with American traditional music in that sense. And you have the harmonica, you know, I think that's the thing. They're not claiming to be specialists in American music. They're researching it. They're trying it out and performing and associating that with technology. So that's great. One thing I want to mention in terms of the lyrics is that Red Hill Mining Town,
00:45:34
Speaker
That's the one they're talking about British politics, English politics. That's the only one. 1984, there was a mining, the National Union of Mine Workers had a massive strike in order to preserve their jobs. So that shows that they wanted that to be a single. They opted for, still haven't found what I'm looking for as the second single of the album. But that one is clearly
00:46:02
Speaker
them say, okay, we still care about what happens close to home. Yes, we have to go to Ireland. Yeah, they're not, you know, just, oh, yeah, we're pretending to be these guys who live in America and don't care about the rest of the world.
00:46:18
Speaker
I think In God's Country is a phenomenal song. I really like the baseline on that one. And I think that's what they said, again, talking about their musicianship, they said they found it hard to record because they were not trained musicians. Well, that's a good accomplishment because they
00:46:41
Speaker
they found a way to play and record it. And Bonnet said he didn't know originally if the song was about America or Ireland. Despite of this side, it is about America. That's fantastic, isn't it? He hasn't drawn himself the line. He's let the lines blur.
00:47:04
Speaker
It's super cool. I want to mention one specific song that I recommend people to listen to, which is not one of the hits.
Highlighting the Song 'Exit'
00:47:11
Speaker
It's a song, Exit.
00:47:13
Speaker
It's led by the bass, really interesting stuff. It's one of the most rock and roll moments in the album for me. It's almost heavy metal to me in the sense it gets darker and darker and more intense. I've added that. You get a turnaround where it goes from being pleasant to listen to to actually quite dissonant to the ears. It's really cool because they did that as a jam. They did one take,
00:47:43
Speaker
long take improvising, building up and getting tested. That's just them as a band, as a garage band playing together. And you go, you know, and then they edit it out. But it's like they cut some bits out of the song. But it was just a jam session with the lyrics on top of it. And it's based on the 1980s novel, The Executioner's Song, which is about a serial killer.
00:48:10
Speaker
So it's a really dark theme. That one for me is like a soundtrack you know for a really dark episode of a serial killer. It's funny though isn't it because I mean thematically it doesn't really seem to fit it although actually that's not true because the writer of that book you're talking about was American.
00:48:33
Speaker
So you just said it wasn't just the politics he wanted to address in the music. It was the politics, the philosophy, the culture and the literature as well. So, you know, that does fall under that bracket. Is there anything else you want to talk about? Song wise, anything specific or should I go on to that? I just I just think like they hit the nail in the head with the the track list, the first four songs
00:49:01
Speaker
are amazing in that sense. I completely agree. No, I said With Our Without You is not one of my favorites. But in terms of the commercial success and the production, everything, they start with where the streets have no name into still haven't found what I'm looking for into With Our Without You and then Bullet the Blue Sky. One last thing I want to say, the clear connection between for those who think they're not a rock band at all,
00:49:29
Speaker
listen to that version I've sent you last time by Sepultura. So I can say my proper Brazilian accent, Sepultura. There you go. Yeah. So I think that's a huge thing as well. You know, you think if you look at artists that have covered with or without you, I don't have a list of them in front of me, but I'd imagine they'd be pop artists. But for a heavy metal band like Sepultura, was my pronunciation good?
00:49:59
Speaker
That was good enough. Sepultura, yeah, there you go. For a heavy metal band like Sepultura to come to U2, pop slash rock band, and to take a song, Sepultura kind of political anyway, so I kind of see the link lyrically why Sepultura would want to cover Bullet the Blue Sky. But even so, for a heavy metal band to sort of stray so far from the confines of metal to pick a song that they liked, I thought that's a great achievement for U2, you know.
00:50:28
Speaker
Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades Accolades
Commercial Success and Legacy of The Joshua Tree
00:50:45
Speaker
Accolades Accol
00:50:45
Speaker
It won the Grammy for Best Album and Best Rock Performance in 1988, 25 million copies sold worldwide, the fastest selling album in British history, selling 235,000 copies in one week, and it went platinum within 48 hours, charted in the UK for 201 weeks, one of the longest charting albums in UK history. So this album for Lee Pei does leave behind a legacy, doesn't it?
00:51:15
Speaker
It does. It does. And it's like the consolidation of a brand. They really needed that breakthrough. They needed to become that stadium band and they achieved it. This is the album that did it, isn't it?
00:51:31
Speaker
Yes, exactly. They were already touring America, but that album was like a huge international success and that established the brand U2 as we know it until nowadays. They've managed to keep it, which is an achievement in itself. It's really hard to stay on the top of the business in music. I think they're finding a way though, don't they?
00:51:55
Speaker
Yeah, they found a way to kind of recycle what they do, but also create different stuff. I think the last thing I want to say before I know you have your monologue, right? Before you do that, the last thing I want to say about this album is it's
00:52:16
Speaker
really important in the sense that gives rock and pop music a direction after the punk era and after, well, it's right at the end of the 80s. So where are we going from here? So and I think they established that in a way and they proved that you can be a four piece band with no extra musicians on stage and using the technology but playing
00:52:46
Speaker
mainly. So it's like they are there playing the parts they've written in the studio. Write songs as a jam. So they have all those elements of a garage band. They've proved you can do all of that and be a stadium band. It's amazing. Yeah, I really respect them for that.
00:53:09
Speaker
That's a great point, and I just want to sort of expand, not expand, just add one point to your point, which is that, well, what did you say about Pop'n Rocket does what to it? It gives a direction, isn't it? Yeah, you're right. And what I'm going to add is that as well as giving it a direction, it creates a bridge.
00:53:28
Speaker
It says, this is how we can combine rock and pop together and still make a good product. But yeah,
Bono's Vocal Delivery and Emotional Impact
00:53:34
Speaker
anyway. And people are going to hate us for that, but we don't care. Oh, man. Like, whatever you think about Bono and all you two, you know.
00:53:42
Speaker
music is music and you know the thing that i'm concerned with most is how it sounds in my ears and you know even if even if i'm happy to say that the everything else you two have done is crap that's not me saying that that's that's just an example this has to be given its credit and i think i'm going to do that now with my monologue because i think i've got a lot to say here we go fortunate
00:54:05
Speaker
Here we go. I think as a musical accomplishment, the Joshua Tree is really something special. The guitars create so much atmosphere and can literally evoke any feeling or thought you can think of or any feeling or thought you too want you to think of.
00:54:20
Speaker
The Edge is a master of this kind of guitar playing and the many, many layers of guitar brought to you in this album. They may not be used to lead or drive a song, but to enhance it. They create a plethora of atmosphere, textures and ambient moments that appropriately surround Bono's vocals.
00:54:36
Speaker
The bass and the drums might have the simplest job in rock music history with this performance, but with the expression and passion of Bono's vocals in the aural world that The Edge creates to enhance it, this is all they needed to do. Play It Simple will provide a solid rhythmic backing for two lead instruments, vocals and guitars. Production wise the album still sounds phenomenal and has stood the test of time magnificently.
00:55:01
Speaker
It still sounds like this could have been released this year, this album. Bono is undoubtedly the hero of the album and I'm not sure that this was ever the intention. Listening to this and getting deep into it, I actually think that this is probably one of the best vocal performances in rock history.
00:55:18
Speaker
Whether technically it's brilliant or not is irrelevant to me, because having read up on the lyrics and the things he was going through in his life, coupled with the passion he feels for some of the topics he is singing about, you can feel Bono's pain, Bono's love and Bono's feel for life in every lyric he sings, and I think it translates fantastically and relatably to an audience.
00:55:39
Speaker
I like the album a lot and actually have it on vinyl. It's a very pleasant and easy listen. Is it the best rock music I've ever heard? No. I would probably choose 20 or more other rock albums I'd prefer to listen to if I was sort of doing a ranking system but there has to be a reason as to why this music resonated so much with audiences and I think that mainly comes from Bono's vocal performance and the atmospheric ambient world that The Edge has formed around him.
00:56:06
Speaker
It's an incredibly powerful album filled with passion, suffering, heart and soul, anger and love all the way through it. Amazing. Well said. Thank you, man.
00:56:23
Speaker
my favourite part of the show. But it really did make me feel this way, and that's what I was alluding to with Bono's vocals. Every word he sings, you can tell he sings it with a meaning. And like you said, whether we agree with it politically or not, it almost doesn't matter because he means it. And that is what his performer puts through to you.
00:56:45
Speaker
Maybe one essential thing I realised whilst listening to it and actually paying attention to the lyrics is it's not patronising at all. No, it's just his feeling, isn't it? It's not saying like, oh, you know, I'm a Christian, I believe in God, and if you don't believe, you're wrong.
00:57:04
Speaker
Yeah. It's just saying like I'm looking, I'm still looking for the answers and I follow my religion and I disagree with the American government in this specific topic. It's not, as it says, you have, he does that with love, not with hate. So that's why I think it's pretty cool. I mean, and whether he's a character or his true persona, I don't care. It sounds really good. Exactly. That's it.
00:57:34
Speaker
Anyway, why good for great place in the album, the album to end the show. Another great choice. Again, just not not something I thought we'd do straight away. One of these albums, you know, I thought we kind of stick more traditional, but I love that we're doing it, man. You know, super tramp last week, you two this week, and we've got a lot of interesting albums for you guys coming up. So, yeah, thank you once again for joining us on episode of the Long Live Rock and Roll podcast. Every few episodes, I do the little shout out of whether where I can tell you to find us.
00:58:02
Speaker
Instagram, Facebook, all that stuff. We'll be posting regular updates. Guys, please leave us a review. It takes 30 seconds at most of your time and it does so much for us. We're an independent podcast doing this in our own time, with our own backing, just because we love what we do and we love talking about this music. So if you can give us 10 to 30 seconds of your time,
00:58:23
Speaker
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00:58:42
Speaker
And if you're ever in doubt about where to find us, you can find us on the Internet. OK, well, that's possible by Instagram, Facebook, YouTube. I don't know. I don't have all that stuff, but I do have a connection that they call the Internet. And if you type in some search, and this was the name, I want Google. If you go there and just type, lovely, wonderful podcast, you're going to find us on that place, the Internet.
00:59:08
Speaker
whatever, you know, whatever the internet means. It's we're there, we're there, we're online. Exactly, there we go. We're online and on fire. It wouldn't be appropriate if you didn't say they can find us on the internet with it. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, thanks for being with us again and keep on rocking everyone. And as usual, take care and long live rock and roll.