Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Ep 48: RayDay!
37 Plays5 years ago
We have on the legendary Raymond Davidson. We get to catch up with how life has changed since he has joined Stern and helped release Avengers. Plus we talk about his insane PinClash run, what 90s games are awesome and why there is more to Black Rose than meets the eye.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Sponsors
00:00:06
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:08
Speaker
We are on episode 48.
00:00:10
Speaker
I am Josh Roop, my co-captain as always.
00:00:13
Speaker
Scott Larson.
00:00:14
Speaker
And Scott, why don't you send us through those wonderful friends of ours?
00:00:17
Speaker
So, friends of the podcast.
00:00:19
Speaker
So, first and foremost, let's talk about this week in pinball.
00:00:21
Speaker
If you don't have time to go through all the pin side forums to find out all the fun stuff that's going on.
00:00:27
Speaker
please check out This Week in Pinball.
00:00:29
Speaker
Also, another site to check out, too, is Pinball Supernova.
00:00:32
Speaker
Just go ahead and see what's going on over there.
00:00:34
Speaker
The Pinball Loft.
00:00:35
Speaker
It's a blog.
00:00:36
Speaker
He talked about his experience of opening up his Avengers and just a fun place to check out.
00:00:42
Speaker
Pinshades.
00:00:44
Speaker
If you want to go ahead and play without getting the glare off your glass, go ahead and check out Pinshades.
00:00:49
Speaker
There is also a Black Friday sale.
00:00:51
Speaker
And if you want to enter in a code, there's LoserkidBF.
00:00:56
Speaker
That's L-O-S-E-R-K-I-D-B-F.
00:00:59
Speaker
So for Black Friday sale.
00:01:01
Speaker
Also, Brian Allen at Flyland Designs.
00:01:04
Speaker
If you want to have that alternate artwork for that classic Williams Valley game, go ahead and check out Brian Allen.
00:01:10
Speaker
Also, if you don't have a game, but you still want to display that excellent artwork, go ahead and check out Lit Frames.
00:01:16
Speaker
Lit Frames is a great way of making your...
00:01:20
Speaker
Uh, pinball room, more fun.
00:01:22
Speaker
And we will talk about our last, uh, sponsor for the show.
00:01:27
Speaker
But first let's talk about who we have on Josh.
00:01:30
Speaker
Who do we have on today?
Interview with Raymond Davidson
00:01:31
Speaker
There's one person you forgot to mention Scott, which is Zach and Nicole many with flipping out pinball.
00:01:36
Speaker
They are awesome.
00:01:37
Speaker
If you need your Avengers or you want a Deadpool, like our next guest has been streaming lately, hit them up at flipping out pinball.
00:01:45
Speaker
Our next guest is number one on the IFPA.
00:01:47
Speaker
He has destroyed Pin Clash.
00:01:48
Speaker
If you haven't watched the video, please go check it out.
00:01:51
Speaker
Our guest is Raymond Davidson.
00:01:52
Speaker
How you doing, sir?
00:01:54
Speaker
Hey, hey, hey guys.
00:01:55
Speaker
Thanks for having me on.
00:01:57
Speaker
For sure.
00:01:59
Speaker
And we definitely want to tell people if they want to check out how amazing Raymond is and how less awesome you are at playing pinball, go ahead and check out his Twitch stream.
00:02:09
Speaker
It's RaydayPinball, and he also uploads it to YouTube, too.
00:02:13
Speaker
So if you want to see how the game's supposed to be played, go ahead and check that out.
00:02:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:19
Speaker
What was awesome is like, it seriously, what was it like eight o'clock on Sunday night and pin clash is about to wrap it up and you're like, no, no, I've got to, I've got to do this.
00:02:29
Speaker
And so, yeah, I just, I had to try, you know, it's like, why not and see what happens.
00:02:36
Speaker
But you were just as excited as I think everyone else was watching.
00:02:38
Speaker
I love that moment, dude.
00:02:39
Speaker
There's the, the, the jumping up and down, you got the one shot left.
00:02:44
Speaker
It was, it was awesome.
00:02:45
Speaker
It was, it was heart pounding.
00:02:49
Speaker
Raymond, you got to tell us, you know, you're working for Stern now.
00:02:53
Speaker
Life has gotten crazier.
00:02:55
Speaker
What got you into all this?
00:02:56
Speaker
Like, how did you start all this?
00:02:59
Speaker
Well, what was your gateway into the pinball universe?
00:03:02
Speaker
Yes.
00:03:04
Speaker
Well, I mean, we can go back to the very beginning, which was when I was, you know, just a toddler coming over to grandma's house.
00:03:11
Speaker
They in eastern Washington, Spokane, I would go over to grandma's.
00:03:18
Speaker
We'd, you know, family trip over there and I would always spend my time in the basement on the pinball machine they had.
00:03:24
Speaker
You know, they had a pool table and a foosball, air hockey, Super Nintendo.
00:03:29
Speaker
But I would I would always play the pinball machine.
00:03:31
Speaker
It was a 1976 Gottlieb Pioneer, which is the two player version of Spirit of 76.
00:03:37
Speaker
Nice.
00:03:38
Speaker
And my dad kind of showed me the ropes, you know, hit these targets to light this, you know, try to get extra ball.
00:03:46
Speaker
Don't tilt because you get all these bonus points.
00:03:49
Speaker
And I just loved it, you know, right away.
00:03:52
Speaker
Something about it.
00:03:52
Speaker
And so I would just play it every time I was over there.
00:03:55
Speaker
And then, you know, time goes on and I start seeing pinball machines in restaurants, you know, Red Robins, and just kind of playing those while you wait for your food.
00:04:06
Speaker
And I start figuring out, hey, wait, you can win replays.
00:04:10
Speaker
Like you can you can keep playing if you're if you're good.
00:04:14
Speaker
And so that really motivated me to like go online and figure out, you know, read up on these things, find the rules, figure out, you know, how do I get these points?
00:04:25
Speaker
And so now in like middle school, there was a go-karting place that I'd ride my bike to after school and they had a Terminator 2.
00:04:33
Speaker
And so I played that thing like multiple times a week.
00:04:38
Speaker
And I don't know if you played much Terminator 2, but you won't get a replay just flipping around on it.
00:04:44
Speaker
It kicks your butt and you need to know exactly how to lock the balls to light the jackpots and shoot the cannon to get the jackpots.
00:04:51
Speaker
And so that game really helped me, you know, learn like very specific objectives and how to just keep playing at that go-karting place for hours on just a couple bucks.
00:05:02
Speaker
And I just loved it.
00:05:03
Speaker
It was like my personal challenge of how long can I play on a few bucks.
00:05:08
Speaker
And that kind of just fueled my passion even more until I found out there was a...
Raymond's Pinball Journey
00:05:16
Speaker
pinball show i believe it was the 2006 uh oak harbor pinball show in in the seattle area and i begged you know my parents please we got to go here and you know it was so far away it's like i think we had to drive like around like we could have taken a ferry but we didn't and uh way out in oak harbor and but you know
00:05:39
Speaker
My mom drove me there and we got to see the show and all these games and I just, I loved it.
00:05:45
Speaker
And so then I was bummed to find out that they didn't have it the next year.
00:05:50
Speaker
But then the year after that was when the Northwest Pinball Show officially opened.
00:05:55
Speaker
And that was something that I'd go to every year.
00:05:58
Speaker
And that's where I entered my first IFPA tournament, which was the Northwest Pinball Championships.
00:06:04
Speaker
And that was, I think, in 2008.
00:06:07
Speaker
And, you know, they asked me, do you want to sign up for the novice division or the open division?
00:06:13
Speaker
Hey, if you sign up for the open division, you know, you'll get these world ranking points.
00:06:16
Speaker
I'm like, whoa, that sounds cool.
00:06:18
Speaker
I want to be ranked, you know.
00:06:21
Speaker
Nice, nice.
00:06:23
Speaker
Yeah, so I just went for it right away, you know.
00:06:26
Speaker
Yeah, sign me up for the open division.
00:06:28
Speaker
And I ended up, you know, qualifying top 16.
00:06:32
Speaker
I think there was only probably like 30 people there, but still getting top 16, you know, meant I got to play on Sunday.
00:06:38
Speaker
And I don't think I made it past the first round, but, you know, I got like 20 bucks or something for qualifying.
00:06:45
Speaker
So, you know, it made me feel good, gave me a taste of it.
00:06:49
Speaker
So then the next year I was super excited.
00:06:51
Speaker
And I don't think I actually qualified the next year.
00:06:54
Speaker
I was super bummed because I just, the next year people like, you know, Keith Elwin and other people started flying out.
00:07:02
Speaker
It was starting to become a big tournament.
00:07:04
Speaker
And I just, I couldn't compete.
00:07:07
Speaker
And so I didn't qualify.
00:07:08
Speaker
I was heartbroken.
00:07:09
Speaker
I think I got like 21st when he needed to be top 16.
00:07:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:13
Speaker
But then I just, that just made me focus even more of finding all these resources online, you know, discovering dead passes, post passes, that sort of thing, along with reading rule sheets.
00:07:25
Speaker
I remember just poring over the pages of Lord of the Rings and Simpsons Pinball Party.
00:07:31
Speaker
I just ate up every bit of it and came back, you know, the next year.
00:07:36
Speaker
And I think I ended up getting like ninth and ninth.
00:07:39
Speaker
Every year after that, it would be the number one tournament I'd look forward to.
00:07:43
Speaker
And that just that's kind of what jumpstarted my competitive pinball because that got me ranked.
00:07:48
Speaker
That got me looking at my rank, got me finding more ranked tournaments to go to.
00:07:53
Speaker
And when I got second, which was, I think, in 2011 at the Northwest Pinball Championships, I
00:08:01
Speaker
I got like a huge prize.
00:08:02
Speaker
It was like 1400 bucks.
00:08:04
Speaker
I got second to Keith, by the way.
00:08:08
Speaker
No, nothing weird about that.
00:08:11
Speaker
A sign of things to come.
00:08:12
Speaker
And I use that money to fund a trip to Papa.
00:08:16
Speaker
And so 2011 or 2012,
00:08:20
Speaker
It was my first trip to Papa.
00:08:22
Speaker
And I got to compete.
00:08:23
Speaker
I went straight for A-Division, of course, because I'm just all riled up.
00:08:26
Speaker
I'm like, yeah, look at me.
00:08:28
Speaker
And oh my god, I got my butt handed to me.
00:08:31
Speaker
I think I spent $1,000 in entries trying to qualify.
00:08:37
Speaker
I had the money because I had won it.
00:08:38
Speaker
And that's kind of how I justified it to myself.
00:08:41
Speaker
But it was also kind of like this horrible gambling addiction of like, I can just qualify if I just keep trying.
00:08:47
Speaker
You were a teenager at this point, right?
00:08:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think I was like 18.
00:08:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:54
Speaker
OK, so you fly across the country to play into a pinball tournament and your family's like, hey, have fun.
00:09:01
Speaker
Or do they come or like, I don't I can't imagine that at 18 that I'd be like, you know, I'm just going to go do this thing.
00:09:08
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I had like a chaperone sort of like a pinball buddy that they kind of knew and trusted.
00:09:16
Speaker
And yeah, I don't know.
00:09:18
Speaker
I mean, maybe I was like 19.
00:09:20
Speaker
I don't know.
00:09:21
Speaker
Yeah, I was around that age.
00:09:23
Speaker
I never really thought about it.
00:09:25
Speaker
But yeah, they just were like, yeah, have fun.
00:09:28
Speaker
And so, you know, flew over to Pittsburgh and
00:09:34
Speaker
Of course, didn't qualify even after trying my hardest.
00:09:37
Speaker
But that was just like another level up moment, just like when I didn't qualify at Northwest that year.
00:09:42
Speaker
So, you know, I just practiced more, watched more videos and just kept dreaming of like someday I'll play in the Papa World Championships.
00:09:51
Speaker
And eventually that would happen, you know, in the future years.
00:09:55
Speaker
that is awesome.
00:09:58
Speaker
That's I, I'm glad Scott had brought that up.
00:10:01
Speaker
Cause I was kind of thinking like, yeah, I'm trying to do the math and stuff like that.
00:10:06
Speaker
And you're like barely out of high school and you're flying across country to do this.
00:10:10
Speaker
That's, that's pretty amazing.
00:10:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:13
Speaker
I remember.
00:10:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:13
Speaker
Cause I don't think I was 21 cause I couldn't, um, couldn't play in bars or anything.
00:10:18
Speaker
So yeah, it was pretty young.
00:10:20
Speaker
So you went on to win Papa, right?
00:10:22
Speaker
You,
00:10:23
Speaker
I did not win Papa.
00:10:25
Speaker
The best I've done is I got second.
00:10:27
Speaker
That was the year where I got second at Papa and second at Pinnberg, which was pretty crazy.
00:10:32
Speaker
That's awesome, though.
00:10:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:35
Speaker
Well, that's that's what we call sharpen it.
00:10:40
Speaker
Yeah, but then then I made up for it because then then later on I got first in IFPA two years in a
Favorite Pinball Games
00:10:46
Speaker
row.
00:10:46
Speaker
OK, all right.
00:10:48
Speaker
Definitely makes up.
00:10:49
Speaker
Love you, Josh.
00:10:50
Speaker
Love you, Josh.
00:10:51
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's it's it's Kate.
00:10:54
Speaker
Well, there is one thing I do want to talk about, though, and I don't know of anybody else that likes this game like I do, but I actually have a black rose and I know you have talked about black rose before.
00:11:05
Speaker
So tell me why black rose is awesome.
00:11:09
Speaker
So Black Rose, that was actually the first pinball machine that I had in my house.
00:11:15
Speaker
My dad and I saw it at like a movie theater and we thought the canon was so cool.
00:11:21
Speaker
And, you know, we'd play it.
00:11:23
Speaker
We sometimes would go to that movie theater just to play it.
00:11:26
Speaker
And then it, you know, it disappeared from the movie theater and we were sad.
00:11:29
Speaker
But then all of a sudden it showed up at a Red Robin.
00:11:31
Speaker
And so now all of a sudden now we'd be going to Red Robin all the time to play it.
00:11:35
Speaker
And then finally, when we moved to Seattle from Yakima, I had been in full swing of pinball, you know, getting into it.
00:11:44
Speaker
My dad was like, we should get you a pinball machine.
00:11:47
Speaker
What was that game that we really liked?
00:11:49
Speaker
Like, oh, Black Rose.
00:11:50
Speaker
He's like, yeah.
00:11:51
Speaker
And so we actually ordered a Black Rose.
00:11:54
Speaker
off of this crazy expensive pinball website.
00:11:57
Speaker
You know, you're so naive back then where you just would Google like buy a pinball machine and you click on the first thing you see and it would be like a $3,500 game from like Game Room Depot or whatever.
00:12:09
Speaker
I don't know, not a real name, but, and so we coughed up a ton of money, got this thing shipped to us.
00:12:15
Speaker
It was, and it was pretty pristine, but it arrived with the glass completely shattered over everything.
00:12:22
Speaker
And it was just a huge mess.
00:12:23
Speaker
We had to refuse shipment.
00:12:24
Speaker
And I was so devastated.
00:12:28
Speaker
But then my dad just had the idea of, well, why don't I just, there can't be that many operators in Yakima, Washington.
00:12:35
Speaker
And so he just investigated and found the phone number of the guy that operated the one that we played at the movie theater and the one at Red Robin.
00:12:42
Speaker
And we ended up just buying that one from him for like 1500 bucks.
00:12:44
Speaker
It was like half the price.
00:12:46
Speaker
Nice.
00:12:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:48
Speaker
And so that's the story of how we got Black Rose.
00:12:51
Speaker
Now, it needed some love and care.
00:12:53
Speaker
We had to fix it up a little bit.
00:12:55
Speaker
But once we got it rolling...
00:12:58
Speaker
I just, I loved playing it because I would always look for ways to get extra balls in games because I figured, you know, if you get an extra ball, you know, that's like an extra life.
00:13:08
Speaker
Like if you just keep getting those, you're never going to lose.
00:13:11
Speaker
And on Black Rose, you can just shoot the whirlpool five times and you get an extra ball.
00:13:16
Speaker
And so I would just like focus on that.
00:13:18
Speaker
So I'd keep the extra balls flowing.
00:13:21
Speaker
And then the sinking of ships, I realized where how you get the big, big points.
00:13:25
Speaker
And so I would just try to see how many ships I could sink.
00:13:28
Speaker
And, you know, that's part of what makes me love that game is just the points just go through the stratosphere where it's like 20 million, 30 million, 40 million, you know, and a replay is at like 25 million or whatever.
00:13:42
Speaker
uh that was just i just loved it it was like like one of my first games we played kind of had a little bit of history to it then once we got it um you know i played all the time it would be the game that was in my house whenever i had a friend over i'd show them check out pinball they'd be like whoa you have a pinball machine holy crap like
00:13:59
Speaker
You know, and yeah, I just I just really like the way that game shoots with the left ramp to upper flipper sort of shot.
00:14:08
Speaker
And, you know, the multiball and the sinking of the ships and all the music.
00:14:12
Speaker
I actually had some of the some of the music on my phone.
00:14:15
Speaker
Like it was so good.
00:14:16
Speaker
I actually have a I have a hard time thinking of selling that game for the same reason, because it is that classic late 80s, early 90s.
00:14:27
Speaker
And, you know, it's just.
00:14:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's just just like beefy sound of just.
00:14:33
Speaker
Yeah, it gets in your head and it's got the rhythm, got the you know, you can kind of sing along to it a little bit.
00:14:39
Speaker
Gets you pumped up.
00:14:41
Speaker
OK, so do you did you have light?
00:14:42
Speaker
Do you still have the game?
00:14:44
Speaker
Yeah, well, it's at my parents' house in Seattle.
00:14:47
Speaker
Does it have lightning flippers or regular flippers?
00:14:52
Speaker
Regular flippers.
00:14:53
Speaker
So that game never was supposed to have lightning flippers.
00:14:56
Speaker
Really?
00:14:57
Speaker
Okay, I thought it was supposed to have lightning flippers.
00:15:00
Speaker
I think yours does because one of your friends was like, this is boring, I'm throwing lightning flippers on.
00:15:05
Speaker
And I think that's how yours ended up with them.
00:15:07
Speaker
Okay, because mine is, it's like, it's so hard to get, especially like lighting, like getting the multi balls because hitting that like left thing behind, you know, that left shot just.
00:15:22
Speaker
It must be at the very tip of your little lightning nub.
00:15:25
Speaker
Yeah, it is.
00:15:26
Speaker
It's basically the knuckle of it before it goes straight down the middle.
00:15:29
Speaker
And so, okay, so I have it on good authority now that Raymond Davidson says that I'm supposed to change this back to standard flippers.
00:15:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:15:37
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think you'll see it with lightning flippers in tournaments because it can play long, but only Doctor Who, Dracula, and I think Popeye were the three original Ousler games that the Europeans said were too easy or whatever.
00:15:52
Speaker
I don't know the full story, but Black Rose was not one of them.
00:15:57
Speaker
All right.
00:15:57
Speaker
Well, now that I have permission to swap it back, because I bought it from someone who's like, you know, it's from Lee.
00:16:02
Speaker
Hi, Lee.
00:16:03
Speaker
He's actually stuck in quarantine in the Asia right now.
00:16:07
Speaker
So he's watching like a billion movies.
00:16:10
Speaker
So I bought it from him and he wanted to take it back to as original as possible.
00:16:13
Speaker
So he put the lightning flippers on.
00:16:14
Speaker
So now, hey, Lee, sorry.
00:16:16
Speaker
Raymond says you're wrong.
00:16:17
Speaker
So...
00:16:19
Speaker
Now I can actually play it a little better, but I love the game.
00:16:22
Speaker
It is so much fun and it would be hard for me to actually sell it.
00:16:27
Speaker
Now, also a couple of things I did on it, which you may like.
00:16:30
Speaker
Do you have invisible glass on it?
00:16:33
Speaker
No, the Invisiglass?
00:16:35
Speaker
No.
00:16:36
Speaker
Yeah, it changes the game.
00:16:38
Speaker
When I swapped it out and I put it on and my wife came down and looked and she said, I didn't know there was a ship decal right in the very back.
00:16:46
Speaker
I'm like, yeah, it's been like... Oh yeah, that game Black Rose does have a pretty bad back glass flare.
00:16:53
Speaker
Yeah, it glared.
00:16:54
Speaker
It's got the Mondo kind of valley back glass and then also the display is kind of in a raised up place.
00:17:00
Speaker
So it glares on the play field as well, yeah.
00:17:02
Speaker
Yeah, so that's my suggestion for you.
00:17:06
Speaker
Go ahead and put that on.
00:17:06
Speaker
I also put on some Penn Stadiums and it makes it a total of modern game.
00:17:11
Speaker
I also put in a color DMD, which makes it a lot more fun.
00:17:14
Speaker
But yeah, I just have a hard time just emotionally wanting to sell that game just because it's from a different time and it plays differently and feels differently.
00:17:24
Speaker
But it's a fun game.
00:17:26
Speaker
It's really fun to play.
00:17:28
Speaker
Yeah, and you know, those games, they're not making any more of them.
00:17:30
Speaker
So I think they're only kind of keep getting harder to find.
00:17:33
Speaker
So if you have the space, I'd say hold on to that.
00:17:37
Speaker
Yeah, so classic 90s.
00:17:40
Speaker
So you're going to pick four of the classic 90s games that you're like, okay, I'm going to select those for my vault, my keep in my basement games.
00:17:48
Speaker
What would you do?
00:17:50
Speaker
Ooh, that's tough.
00:17:52
Speaker
Well, I guess Black Rose.
00:17:55
Speaker
And then...
00:17:57
Speaker
I mean, maybe Terminator 2, just because it was one of the ones that I grew up on.
00:18:03
Speaker
Then, let's see.
00:18:07
Speaker
Really like Dracula.
00:18:09
Speaker
That was another game I owned for a while that taught me how to really better yourself.
00:18:16
Speaker
Dracula is really fun when you get all those multi-balls going.
00:18:21
Speaker
And you're Johannes and can get like 5 billion points in one ball.
00:18:26
Speaker
Yeah, just do all the things effortlessly.
00:18:32
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
00:18:33
Speaker
And then maybe one of the expensive A-lists like Indiana Jones or something like that.
00:18:40
Speaker
I do like The Shadow, though.
00:18:42
Speaker
That's a fun game.
00:18:43
Speaker
That is a way good game.
00:18:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:46
Speaker
I actually, I've been having a debate because I actually got to go up and play Scott's Avengers LE, which by the way, is fantastic.
00:18:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:57
Speaker
And he took, he took my GC by like 500 points.
00:19:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:02
Speaker
I was about to, he came up to my house to sleep overnight because he was taking a class in the morning and then he robbed my GC.
00:19:10
Speaker
I was about to throw him out at midnight.
00:19:14
Speaker
I'm in a pickle because I do have my Avengers premium on order, which is backlogged.
00:19:20
Speaker
But I had someone offer me a Shadow and a Judge Dredd
00:19:25
Speaker
But the kicker is I wouldn't be able to get Avengers.
00:19:27
Speaker
And I'm like, you've got to be joking me like this is shadow is fantastic.
00:19:32
Speaker
I love the shadow.
00:19:33
Speaker
And I'm starting to just start to love Judge Dredd.
00:19:36
Speaker
It's one of those games I think that kind of grows on you the more that you learn it, you know?
00:19:39
Speaker
Okay, Josh, I'm sorry.
00:19:41
Speaker
After playing Avengers, that is the one I turn on.
00:19:44
Speaker
You have you know how many machines I have.
00:19:47
Speaker
That's the one that's the one that right now is top of my list of never leaving my house.
00:19:52
Speaker
Well, I don't think I could break my son's heart because I told him we're bringing home Avengers.
00:19:56
Speaker
And he's in that.
00:19:57
Speaker
The only thing that could top Avengers in my house is if I told him Harry Potter.
00:20:00
Speaker
I know that's the cliche, but seriously, like the child, he wears his... Wait, the child?
00:20:06
Speaker
You want the Mandalorian now?
00:20:07
Speaker
You want Baby Yoda?
00:20:09
Speaker
Yes, I take that.
00:20:10
Speaker
But my child wears, where are they?
00:20:11
Speaker
The Harry Potter capes, the ones that have the wand pocket on the inside.
00:20:15
Speaker
He's always listening on Audible to a Harry Potter book.
00:20:19
Speaker
I mean...
00:20:20
Speaker
But we watch the Marvel movies all the time.
00:20:22
Speaker
So like it's Avengers than Harry Potter.
00:20:25
Speaker
But so I don't think I can go through with Shadow and Judge Dredd, but still.
Avengers Game Discussion
00:20:30
Speaker
But I think I'm going to be happy either way.
00:20:31
Speaker
I mean, Avengers is fantastic.
00:20:33
Speaker
It really is.
00:20:34
Speaker
Thanks.
00:20:35
Speaker
Yeah, I had a lot of fun working on it.
00:20:38
Speaker
Okay, I do have one question, though, and I have seen this a few times.
00:20:42
Speaker
Mine doesn't do it as much as some people talking about it, but sometimes when you nail the Captain Marvel shot, it goes about two-thirds of the way up before it does the loop around, and it just shoots right back down.
00:20:56
Speaker
Like, is there something I'm on?
00:20:57
Speaker
Like, my game doesn't do it a lot, but it does it sometimes.
00:21:00
Speaker
Is it?
00:21:01
Speaker
So usually if it's only if it's doing that, maybe your flipper, like, have you been playing for a while?
00:21:07
Speaker
Sometimes the flippers can get a little tired.
00:21:11
Speaker
And no, no, I'm not talking.
00:21:13
Speaker
It like doesn't make it up the ramp.
00:21:15
Speaker
I'm talking it screaming up the ramp at Mach 2.
00:21:18
Speaker
And it's almost like it seems like it hits an up post and immediately just rejects.
00:21:24
Speaker
It comes back down.
00:21:26
Speaker
The only thing I can think of is there's the plastic protector flap at the entrance.
00:21:32
Speaker
So maybe it's rattling and hitting that.
00:21:35
Speaker
I'm not sure.
00:21:37
Speaker
The one thing I thought is if you look at the left side of the funnel ramp, the wire form comes and then bends a little acutely out a little bit.
00:21:47
Speaker
And I wonder if it just hits that just right.
00:21:50
Speaker
But I've heard it from a few people that they've had reject on the Captain Marvel ramp.
00:21:55
Speaker
So I'm wondering if, I didn't know if Stern was aware of that or if had experienced any of that.
00:22:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:02
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know.
00:22:02
Speaker
You'd have to ask Keith or the mechanical engineer.
00:22:06
Speaker
I just write the software.
00:22:08
Speaker
Well, sure, but you play it.
00:22:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:12
Speaker
But you're probably also a lot better shot than I am.
00:22:14
Speaker
So you're more likely to nail the shot.
00:22:17
Speaker
Yeah, there's definitely something to, you know, you have to, it's designed to be hit in a certain spot.
00:22:23
Speaker
And if you hit it in a little, not quite that spot, then yeah, it might not follow the guides as it's meant to and kind of work its way around.
00:22:33
Speaker
Like if you hit it too early, maybe I'm not, I don't know.
00:22:38
Speaker
So you brought up writing code.
00:22:40
Speaker
What is your job at Stern?
00:22:42
Speaker
I know that Rick Nagel's the head code person.
00:22:44
Speaker
Does he just say, okay, take this, I'll take that?
00:22:48
Speaker
How does it work with your job?
00:22:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's pretty much it.
00:22:53
Speaker
Like he kind of oversees, he does a lot of the work, he kind of oversees the general picture and then gets in the real nitty gritty of some of the more, you know, complicated stuff, coordinating the subway movements, devices, and that sort of thing.
00:23:15
Speaker
And then also writing kind of the,
00:23:17
Speaker
the structure of the code, you know, how, how you're going to have your files and, and things.
00:23:22
Speaker
And then, uh, you know, he kind of has everything set up in a nice engineered crafted way.
00:23:27
Speaker
Then he can just hand out like, Hey, um,
00:23:31
Speaker
Keith just floods us with mode requests.
00:23:35
Speaker
Like, have this mode do this, do this, do this, do this.
00:23:39
Speaker
And Rick and I basically just pull from the queue and just sort of work on them as they come in.
00:23:47
Speaker
Yeah, I've always wondered, because there's a lot of people working on one game, and I'm just like, there's just got to be a lot to the software if you guys have two, three guys working on the code all at once, you know?
00:23:58
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there's other support programmers too that do wonderful things like the light shows.
00:24:03
Speaker
Like I haven't really done any of the light shows other than like super basic stuff like making the tower go bop, bop, bop, you know, in that little choreographed way.
00:24:15
Speaker
But all the fancy effects, yeah.
00:24:18
Speaker
Brett, he's amazing and he does the bonus light effects and he's still adding more now.
00:24:27
Speaker
Everyone kind of just does what they're best at contributing and just trying to get the software as good as we can.
00:24:34
Speaker
So we talked to other people who they're, you know, they're competitive as their passion and then they take a job at pinball.
00:24:42
Speaker
Like how has that affected your, I guess your pinball mindset?
00:24:49
Speaker
Not one bit.
00:24:50
Speaker
Really?
00:24:51
Speaker
Okay.
00:24:51
Speaker
Okay.
00:24:52
Speaker
Everyone kept warning me about this.
00:24:54
Speaker
And here I am still streaming, you know, after work, still streaming.
00:24:58
Speaker
looking up tournaments and and and you know strategies and stuff and talking pinball and doing pinball podcasts like i just love pinball and uh you know i i don't know it hasn't really hit me yet i guess it's like marrying the mistress is what it sounds like
00:25:17
Speaker
No, no.
00:25:18
Speaker
OK, I will say I had laughed so hard when in that we're in a text thread that talks.
00:25:23
Speaker
There's a lot of podcasters on there and stuff.
00:25:26
Speaker
And when someone said Ray Day rage quitting, I'm like, OK, I got to see this.
00:25:31
Speaker
That was the calmest rage quit that I've ever seen.
00:25:34
Speaker
You're like, oh, I'm done.
00:25:34
Speaker
Click.
00:25:35
Speaker
And you sat down.
00:25:38
Speaker
Turn on Diddy Kong.
00:25:41
Speaker
I mean, for me, I'm getting like triple danger warnings where like Thanos is coming out of the machine says, you know, you're going to beat up machine a little bit if you keep shaking it like that.
00:25:49
Speaker
But yeah, I was just so mad.
00:25:52
Speaker
It was a long stream and it kept just draining me at the worst possible time.
00:25:57
Speaker
I was like, I'm done.
00:25:58
Speaker
I'm done.
00:26:01
Speaker
No, but I can tell when you're streaming that you truly are enjoying every moment that you're flipping.
00:26:08
Speaker
Which I think is something amazing because even there are times when I feel like I'm chopping wood and I'm not even remotely your level.
00:26:15
Speaker
So it must be I guess it must be fun being able to go to a machine and say, hey, I can do this.
00:26:23
Speaker
Like I can get really deep into this game.
00:26:27
Speaker
So, so here's, here's another question for you at a super high level.
00:26:34
Speaker
What are the things that you would tell anybody who's like, you know, I'm at a plateau.
00:26:37
Speaker
I'm not actually getting any better or worse.
00:26:41
Speaker
I just seem like where I am.
00:26:44
Speaker
What are the couple of things that you can say?
00:26:46
Speaker
Okay, here's how you take your game to the next level.
00:26:51
Speaker
I think watching people or playing against people that are better than you and just kind of observing all the little things that they're doing that you're not doing.
00:27:02
Speaker
And then also, you know, try to apply, try to, you know, do a couple drop catches, you know, try to try to really focus on control and then learning the rules, I think is really big.
00:27:18
Speaker
I think,
00:27:19
Speaker
Like you can have a basic idea for the rules, but if you want to beat people at tournaments, you kind of need to know, like, you don't need to know everything, but you need the stuff you do know, you need to like have a plan for.
00:27:32
Speaker
And so you're never just kind of flipping around aimlessly.
00:27:35
Speaker
Like you should always have something in mind, whether it's the next multi-ball or the next mode.
00:27:40
Speaker
So just like being able to formulate the next steps in your head is super important.
00:27:47
Speaker
And we'll go a long way because if you have objectives, then you're going to naturally want to figure out how to trap the ball.
00:27:53
Speaker
Because, you know, if you know that you need to hit the left orbit to activate something,
00:27:59
Speaker
then you're going to try your hardest to get the ball on the right flipper, whether that means dead passing it from the left or drop catching it on the right or post passing.
00:28:08
Speaker
And so then your goal becomes get on the right flipper.
00:28:11
Speaker
Whereas if you don't know the rules and you're just flipping around whatever it gives you, then you don't really see the benefit of the control as much.
00:28:19
Speaker
So they kind of go hand in hand.
00:28:20
Speaker
You kind of need you need both.
00:28:23
Speaker
So how do you how do you go about learning those?
00:28:26
Speaker
Like, what is your resource?
00:28:28
Speaker
And by the way, you said exactly what Eric Stone said when he used to live in Utah.
00:28:34
Speaker
And so he came out and we invited him to do kind of a little tutorial to the local guys.
00:28:40
Speaker
And that was the one thing he said is when you step up to a machine, always have a plan.
00:28:44
Speaker
Like you need to know what you're planning on doing.
00:28:47
Speaker
So you, so that's good to know that the number one and number two player have the same approach.
00:28:53
Speaker
What do you do to compile?
00:28:56
Speaker
I mean, there's so many games out there and yes, I know there are games that you see over and over again, but how would someone go about, okay, this is how I want to find out the rules.
00:29:04
Speaker
And this is the competitive approach because there is a difference between a recreational approach and a competitive approach to a game.
00:29:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:12
Speaker
Um,
00:29:13
Speaker
I mean, it just depends on what your goals are and recognizing the risk and reward of the different strategies.
00:29:23
Speaker
Sometimes you realize, like, I'm going to need a huge score, so I need to play it more for the long game.
00:29:29
Speaker
And other times it's like, I just need to knock it last.
00:29:31
Speaker
And so then you kind of shift over to just hitting the couple shots you need.
00:29:37
Speaker
And sometimes you combine the two.
00:29:38
Speaker
You know, you start...
00:29:39
Speaker
hitting the shots you need to knock it last.
00:29:42
Speaker
And then once you got that buffer, now you can start thinking bigger and planning out for higher points in the future and that sort of thing.
00:29:51
Speaker
So do you use like pen tips or do you actually just know that if you're in a tournament and you walk up to a game that you're not super familiar with, there has to be some way that you have a resource to say, OK, this reminds me of what to do.
00:30:04
Speaker
I mean, it's just, it seems like I would just ask somebody, you know, who has played the game and I just have slowly accumulated the remembering just from going to tournaments.
00:30:16
Speaker
You know, one way to get better is just to go to tournaments and you'll slowly see more and more games.
00:30:23
Speaker
And then every time you see a game, you add it to your knowledge bank.
00:30:28
Speaker
But if you've never seen a game before, I would just ask somebody.
00:30:31
Speaker
I'd be like, hey, do you know how to get multiball?
00:30:34
Speaker
And if everybody's like, no, I've never seen you either.
00:30:36
Speaker
I have no idea.
00:30:37
Speaker
Well, then you got to, you know, maybe look at the rule card, look at the play field, you know, try to find those green lights that say lock on them.
00:30:45
Speaker
And yeah, Pintips, that's a great site that a lot of people use.
00:30:50
Speaker
I know it gets like record traffic at Pinberg every year.
00:30:53
Speaker
So you can definitely look at that for some nice starting points.
00:30:58
Speaker
So the one thing I want to bring up, because I was watching your Pin Clash video, and I noticed, because if you know Escape Nublar, everyone out there, it's a time-based mode.
Competitive Pinball Strategies
00:31:08
Speaker
You're trying to do as fast as you possibly can.
00:31:11
Speaker
Well, if you happen to watch Ray Day's video, you were wishing it would drain.
00:31:16
Speaker
I was like, why the crap is he wanting this to drain?
00:31:19
Speaker
And later on, I asked you, and you said, you know, it stops the timer, and if you can do it right.
00:31:23
Speaker
And I'd never thought of that.
00:31:24
Speaker
Are you constantly looking for stuff like that, or...
00:31:28
Speaker
Yeah, so as soon as the ball hits the drain, it stops the timer, and it doesn't start the timer until you hit another switch.
00:31:34
Speaker
So if the next shot you make is the shot you want to hit, you basically just warp-piped the ball from one place to your next shot.
00:31:44
Speaker
And so all that time trying to set up, trying to get trapped, trying to...
00:31:48
Speaker
hit the shot and the ball path that the shot would have to travel on is no longer counting against you.
00:31:53
Speaker
If you drain, pause the timer, short plunge, get the ball to a flipper and then nail the shot that you're trying to hit.
00:31:59
Speaker
But like, did you just randomly figure this out?
00:32:02
Speaker
Is this something that like everyone in the top five, you get together and you're like, by the way, if you do this, like,
00:32:09
Speaker
I mean, kind of, yeah.
00:32:10
Speaker
It kind of spreads like wildfire where, you know, you'll see somebody getting a crazy time and you'll see them short plunging and then you'll be like, why are you doing that?
00:32:21
Speaker
And then they'll explain it to you and be like, huh, okay.
00:32:24
Speaker
And at first you might be like, eh, that's probably not that important.
00:32:27
Speaker
But then you start doing it and you start seeing results.
00:32:29
Speaker
So you do it more and more and then other people start seeing it and then they do it more.
00:32:34
Speaker
And yeah, it just kind of spreads, spreads around.
00:32:37
Speaker
That actually reminds me of speed runs.
00:32:40
Speaker
So like in classic NES games, when they get all the way to the end of Super Mario Brothers and they do it in like nine minutes, 20 seconds or something like that, there are all these little tips that they have to save time that doesn't count against them.
00:32:53
Speaker
So that's really interesting that you're able to utilize that in Pinball too.
00:32:57
Speaker
Yeah, it kind of is.
00:32:59
Speaker
Yeah, I thought it was pretty awesome.
00:33:00
Speaker
Well, it's just funny, like the little things you don't catch.
00:33:02
Speaker
Like my very first tournament I played in, I was fortunate enough to get to the final four.
00:33:07
Speaker
And the last game we played on was getaway.
00:33:09
Speaker
And so I started watching the gentleman before me, the very first guy that gets up and he launches the ball and he lets it drain.
00:33:15
Speaker
And I'm like, what the heck is he doing?
00:33:17
Speaker
And then he just kind of lets it, he tries to time it so he's still got ball saved so he doesn't mess himself over.
00:33:24
Speaker
But then he's like, then he started playing and I'm like, what the heck just happened?
00:33:27
Speaker
Because then he's in third gear already, you know, because of the ball save.
00:33:31
Speaker
And that's when I learned, oh, if you let it drain, it automatically starts building up your RPMs.
00:33:37
Speaker
And you just, all you have to do is shift.
00:33:38
Speaker
I think that's, you know...
00:33:40
Speaker
there are these weird little tricks like that, but the, the overlying theme is you just gotta, gotta be curious, gotta pay attention.
00:33:47
Speaker
So because you saw him doing that and you asked the question, you know, you got rewarded because now you get to find out about this cool new strategy.
00:33:55
Speaker
Um, whereas if you just turned a blind eye to it or you don't have the, you know, curiosity or the, the will to look at these things, um, you know, that you're, you're only going to get better if you, uh,
00:34:06
Speaker
look at look at everything and try to find the best you know best strategies and and share information with everyone well that's what made me chuckle one of my favorite moments is i was on attack from mars i'm playing three other guys and um i remember we'd had keith l1 on and he's like never shoot up the middle in a tournament just go for the ramps and the orbits right that's like the best strategy on that game just just get into total annihilation and just blow it up
00:34:31
Speaker
And so I'm like, well, if I'm going to be doing that, I'm going to go for the billion hurry up.
00:34:34
Speaker
And so on ball two, I saw it all coming together.
00:34:37
Speaker
I get stoked, right?
00:34:39
Speaker
And I hit the shot.
00:34:39
Speaker
I get the one billion hurry up.
00:34:41
Speaker
Total annihilation happens.
00:34:42
Speaker
I'm excited.
00:34:43
Speaker
I'm jumping up and down.
00:34:45
Speaker
I blow up the game.
00:34:46
Speaker
I walk away on ball two.
00:34:47
Speaker
And the guy that's before me in the queue walks over and he's like,
00:34:52
Speaker
what the hell?
00:34:53
Speaker
I was like, what?
00:34:55
Speaker
And he's like, and I'm quoting, so... And he's like, what did you just do?
00:35:01
Speaker
And I tried to explain it to him, and it's funny because, like, two minutes later, we've got a picture out of Attack from Mars, and I'm trying to explain it because it just wasn't clicking.
00:35:10
Speaker
But I'm like, dude, just...
00:35:12
Speaker
It's the billion hurry up.
00:35:13
Speaker
I thought everyone knew and it's, it's cool to teach someone something new, like especially in a tournament setting.
00:35:19
Speaker
I've had that happen.
00:35:20
Speaker
Bo and Karen's helped, helped me when we did like Salt Lake gaming con and stuff like that.
00:35:24
Speaker
And he's like, just hit this and this, it was start a Starship troopers.
00:35:27
Speaker
And he's like, just do this, this, and this, and you'll be good to go.
00:35:30
Speaker
And then it was funny.
00:35:30
Speaker
Cause I did those things and he'd walked off and came back and he's like, Oh, you obviously did what I told you to.
00:35:36
Speaker
Nice.
00:35:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:39
Speaker
though but it's cool it's like i think i think everyone should have that mentality of it's not about beating the other person about knowledge it should be about skill right so well it's a combination though and you have the the like i said you can be the best best shooter in the world but if you never even stop to ask am i shooting the right things then yeah maybe you don't deserve to beat someone that put in the time to to like even ask that question right true now yes
00:36:09
Speaker
I agree to an extent that it's, it's, you shouldn't beat somebody knowing something that the other person like can't possibly know or, or like, you know, they're asking like, how do I get this?
00:36:21
Speaker
And you just like, don't tell them.
00:36:23
Speaker
And it's some super secret thing.
00:36:26
Speaker
who knows what, or if you're, you know, programming the game and you know, something like that, I think obviously it's just not what you want, but if it's something that anybody can have access to, you know, you should reward people that, that take that extra couple of minutes.
00:36:39
Speaker
Cause it's not that long or that much effort to just, you know, ask yourself, Hey, I wonder if there's an add a ball in this multi ball and, and then try to ask people or play yourself to try to find it.
00:36:52
Speaker
And, and you know, that sort of thing.
00:36:54
Speaker
Yeah, I actually ran into that in a black rose where my buddy came over and he short plunged and he didn't open the locker, you know, David Jones locker and just let it drop.
00:37:06
Speaker
And I was like, what are you doing?
00:37:07
Speaker
He's like, oh, there's a if you don't activate the play field, you can just keep shooting until you open up, open it up.
00:37:12
Speaker
And I'm like, wait, really?
00:37:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:16
Speaker
Very, very observant.
00:37:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:18
Speaker
I had no idea.
00:37:19
Speaker
I, and I'm not really that observant of a player.
00:37:21
Speaker
So, okay.
00:37:22
Speaker
It sounds like that's, that's my tip is I need to step up my knowledge of the game.
00:37:27
Speaker
You got to start standing over people's shoulders as they play, not touching them, just kind of like, you know, stalkerish kind of style while they're, they're playing.
00:37:34
Speaker
You're just right behind the tape, but they know you're there kind of thing.
00:37:37
Speaker
You know, I, I, I love it when they have it set up.
00:37:41
Speaker
So they actually have a screen right above.
00:37:43
Speaker
So it shows the play field.
00:37:45
Speaker
When I see things like that, I'm just like, that is amazing because everybody can see what they're doing.
00:37:50
Speaker
That's one of the limitations of pinball is because at least previously before flat screens became ridiculously cheap, you kind of had to be really awkwardly involved in watching the action as opposed to just taking the person's word for it.
00:38:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:09
Speaker
Yeah, definitely a lot more technological advances, especially just pinball streaming in general has blown up.
00:38:16
Speaker
Oh, yes.
00:38:17
Speaker
Yeah, and I love that high-level players, and even like their number one player, is actually streaming and showing the knowledge.
00:38:24
Speaker
Actually, that's one thing that's amazing about pinball is you're actually giving away tips.
00:38:29
Speaker
Like as the high-level players, you guys aren't hiding it.
00:38:32
Speaker
You're actually saying, no, this is what you do to get better.
00:38:34
Speaker
That's what always blows me away.
00:38:36
Speaker
Want more competition, man.
00:38:38
Speaker
Tournaments aren't any fun if you're the only one that shows up, you know.
00:38:43
Speaker
I don't know.
00:38:43
Speaker
Johannes is pretty good.
00:38:45
Speaker
I don't know if you need any more competition than that, man.
00:38:49
Speaker
That man is insane.
00:38:50
Speaker
I watched his Avengers Pro run.
00:38:52
Speaker
What was that, like two weeks ago?
00:38:53
Speaker
Holy crap.
00:38:54
Speaker
Oh, my good God.
00:38:55
Speaker
That guy's crazy.
00:38:56
Speaker
Oh, insane.
00:38:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:00
Speaker
Yeah, that was otherworldly.
00:39:03
Speaker
Yes.
00:39:03
Speaker
It's amazing.
00:39:04
Speaker
The the flippers get like I don't know.
00:39:07
Speaker
It's the same thing as OK.
00:39:08
Speaker
So like in Avengers, when it has the countdown, when you lock it in the tower and you're trying to shoot the Hawkeye shot, like I don't know, like maybe I flip way too slow or trying to figure that out.
00:39:19
Speaker
But I think there are some people that are just better at fast switch or something like I don't know what it is.
00:39:24
Speaker
Maybe my timing's off.
00:39:25
Speaker
But when I see people repeatedly hit those shots when the ball is screaming by, I'm just in awe.
00:39:32
Speaker
Yeah, it definitely helps having a good timing and coordination and whatever magic sauce Johannes has.
00:39:43
Speaker
Well, let's talk Avengers for a second.
00:39:45
Speaker
So I got on Scott's Avengers two weeks ago.
00:39:48
Speaker
He has the LE.
00:39:50
Speaker
And at first, I'm not going to lie, I was not happy with the game.
00:39:54
Speaker
I felt like I'd played forever.
00:39:55
Speaker
I felt like I didn't get very far.
00:39:57
Speaker
I was so confused at what was going on.
00:39:59
Speaker
I finally slowed myself down.
00:40:00
Speaker
I said, just stop shooting the flashing light.
00:40:03
Speaker
Actually read the screen.
00:40:05
Speaker
And...
00:40:06
Speaker
I love Power Gem.
00:40:07
Speaker
Like I got into Power Gem.
00:40:09
Speaker
That is so addicting.
00:40:10
Speaker
Hitting that spinner to build up Hulk.
00:40:12
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:40:13
Speaker
Somebody actually read the LCD.
00:40:15
Speaker
I know it's crazy.
00:40:18
Speaker
It's been driving me crazy watching like Jack Danger play and never look at the LCD and he'll play like Space Gem.
00:40:25
Speaker
It'd be like, all right, just hit the two orbits.
00:40:27
Speaker
I'm like, no, there's so much more than that.
00:40:29
Speaker
Or Power Gem.
00:40:30
Speaker
Oh, just hit the red shots.
00:40:31
Speaker
No, no, no.
00:40:31
Speaker
There's so much more to read.
00:40:33
Speaker
Well, that's what's crazy is it's like the easier shots on Avengers.
00:40:37
Speaker
If they're flashing, yeah, you hit them, but they're not worth as much as a critical hit shot, which is a little harder to hit.
00:40:43
Speaker
And then I thought it'd be the genius that would just sit there and just build up Hulk and build up Hulk because that spinner shot isn't really super hard to hit.
00:40:51
Speaker
And so I just start hitting it.
00:40:52
Speaker
Right.
00:40:52
Speaker
And I'm like, why is it not building up anymore?
00:40:54
Speaker
Oh, it caps out.
00:40:56
Speaker
All right, let's make a shot and let's start building again.
00:40:58
Speaker
That is so addicting.
00:41:00
Speaker
That's how I took his GC, to be honest, like power jam.
00:41:03
Speaker
Yeah, so that was my, I basically came up with how that would work where, you know, at first it was just literally the spinner could raise the values and there was no cap, no restriction.
00:41:14
Speaker
And I'm like, that's insane.
00:41:16
Speaker
Okay, that spinner, it spins really well and people are going to abuse this.
00:41:20
Speaker
So I made up a nice compromise rule where you get one shot.
00:41:25
Speaker
So when the Hulk spinner stops spinning, then it unlights until you hit another, you know, glancing blow or critical hit.
00:41:33
Speaker
And then you can take another shot at it.
00:41:35
Speaker
So you kind of have to alternate if you want the maximum pointage.
00:41:41
Speaker
I also love the gamma ray shot with the sound.
00:41:45
Speaker
I hit that shot regularly, but when it starts building up, I swear there's like a short circuit in my brain because it is so stressful to actually hit that shot.
00:41:54
Speaker
But when you hit it, it is so great.
00:41:57
Speaker
It just feels like fireworks are going off because you just crush it.
00:42:00
Speaker
Yeah, the points, they go up.
00:42:02
Speaker
It's like every spin makes the next spin worth more.
00:42:05
Speaker
So if you rip it once, you'll get like a nice big score.
00:42:09
Speaker
But if you rip it again, you just get like a huge score because it's each spin.
00:42:13
Speaker
It just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
00:42:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:16
Speaker
And I don't know what kind of spinner you put on there, but there's like zero resistance.
00:42:20
Speaker
I was amazed at that too, because it's not like an opt.
00:42:23
Speaker
It's just a normal spinner, but it just the metal or the size or the weight, it just it just goes.
00:42:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:30
Speaker
The one shot, let's see, I'm trying to think.
00:42:33
Speaker
Every shot felt very doable.
00:42:35
Speaker
This is the thing I loved about this game, is as you're playing it, there's never a moment where you feel like the game messed you over.
00:42:44
Speaker
It always felt like, oh, it's my fault for not hitting that shot.
00:42:46
Speaker
It's my fault for, because all the shots feel very makeable, except for maybe the Hawkeye, the orbit that comes back around the left side, which takes a lot of concentration to hit.
00:42:58
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:43:00
Speaker
But other than that, I just I feel like this game is so well balanced.
00:43:05
Speaker
And I never walked away from the game thinking this game has it out for me.
00:43:10
Speaker
I kept thinking I've got to play one more because I've got to get better because I've got to make these shots.
00:43:15
Speaker
Oh, it is.
00:43:15
Speaker
It has the most addicting like one more game feel to it of any game I played in a while.
00:43:20
Speaker
Yeah, for probably for that reason, huh?
00:43:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:24
Speaker
I'm with Josh.
00:43:26
Speaker
I think that there are some games where there's that one shot that you're just like, okay, that's just impossible for me to hit.
00:43:32
Speaker
It doesn't feel like any of the shots are out of reach.
00:43:35
Speaker
Yeah, you have to work for it a little more, but you're right.
00:43:40
Speaker
I'm amazed at that Captain America shot through the pops that just doesn't look possible.
00:43:44
Speaker
It goes.
00:43:45
Speaker
You hit it on accident.
00:43:46
Speaker
It just swooshes perfectly.
00:43:48
Speaker
Cling.
00:43:49
Speaker
It feels so good.
00:43:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:51
Speaker
I think actually the one shot I do have complaint with is the one that's behind the Sanctum shot.
00:43:58
Speaker
The one that you've got to get the extra ball and stuff off of.
00:44:01
Speaker
It's always in the way and then even when it's not in the way, you end up missing it and then hitting the disc and then it gets put in the way.
00:44:08
Speaker
So it's like extra compounding frustration.
00:44:11
Speaker
Are you talking the Sanctum shot?
00:44:13
Speaker
I think that's what it is, right?
00:44:14
Speaker
The one that's behind the spinning disc.
00:44:16
Speaker
Yes, it's the Sanctum shot.
00:44:19
Speaker
I got an extra ball there once or twice.
00:44:20
Speaker
And I was thinking, dang, I don't want to shoot for that.
00:44:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:24
Speaker
It does always feel like the knobs in the way.
00:44:26
Speaker
I feel like, uh, I have, I have a lot of luck, uh, backhanding that one.
00:44:30
Speaker
Um, you can kind of slide it up there and hit it and it feels safer and more accurate, I guess.
00:44:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:37
Speaker
You have to be really fast and letting it go though.
00:44:39
Speaker
So the upper flipper doesn't get in the way.
00:44:43
Speaker
Uh, I think you can sneak it in there.
00:44:44
Speaker
Really?
00:44:45
Speaker
I think you can.
00:44:45
Speaker
Okay.
00:44:46
Speaker
Okay.
00:44:48
Speaker
Yeah, I love that game.
00:44:51
Speaker
I'm super excited about it.
00:44:53
Speaker
And so you have you have the Ellie and.
00:44:57
Speaker
Josh is getting Ellie as well.
00:45:00
Speaker
He's getting a premium.
00:45:01
Speaker
He's getting a premium.
00:45:02
Speaker
Yeah, nice.
00:45:03
Speaker
So you'll have the the portal and the and the Marvel action.
00:45:07
Speaker
Yeah, I love the... No, actually, I will say, too, one of our buddies up just up north from me, he just got the Pro, and he's loving that, too.
00:45:18
Speaker
And so I told him, I was like, hey, when this kind of dies down the craziness, I want to come up and play it because I've heard a lot of people have good experiences on the Pro, too.
00:45:27
Speaker
Because I think if you didn't see, like, the Captain Marvel ramp or the Illuminated Subway, you...
00:45:32
Speaker
you would still look at that game and say, that's amazing.
00:45:35
Speaker
It doesn't feel like there's a lot of ripped out stuff in the game.
00:45:38
Speaker
Yeah, it is.
00:45:39
Speaker
It's a heck of a lot of game for a Stern Pro.
00:45:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's definitely, you know, I have the Pro play field, so I've been streaming that.
00:45:48
Speaker
And, you know, I wish I had the LE one because that's the one I'm used to.
00:45:52
Speaker
And it has, you know, the portal clunk.
00:45:54
Speaker
I love shooting that portal and the Marvel ramp.
00:45:57
Speaker
But I've had just fun with the Pro as well.
00:46:00
Speaker
So they're just, they're both awesome.
00:46:02
Speaker
And
00:46:03
Speaker
If you can afford to get the premium, definitely get the premium.
00:46:07
Speaker
If not, get the Pro.
00:46:09
Speaker
I love that the game, it actually, even though you have two options, the pro and the premium slash LE, that you still feel that both games are, they are sufficient for what
Stern's Pro vs Premium Machines
00:46:22
Speaker
you can get.
00:46:22
Speaker
It's like Metallica.
00:46:24
Speaker
I don't know of anyone who buys Metallica and says, oh man, I wish I had the other stuff.
00:46:28
Speaker
However, even in Avengers though, you get something extra,
00:46:33
Speaker
with the premium LE, but even if you don't, you don't feel like you are, you're missing something in the pro.
00:46:40
Speaker
It's still a lot of game for your buck.
00:46:43
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:46:46
Speaker
It is a wonderful game.
00:46:47
Speaker
Like I'm excited for my premium and I really think whether you buy the pro or the premium, you're going to be very happy with this game.
00:46:53
Speaker
It's just like Jurassic park.
00:46:54
Speaker
There's a lot of bang for your buck under that glass.
00:46:57
Speaker
Yeah, it's very akin to Jurassic Park.
00:46:59
Speaker
You know, Jurassic Park Pro has pretty much everything you'd want, but the premium's got that sweet, you know, moving T-Rex and the raptor gate that you can actually trap balls behind.
00:47:09
Speaker
And it just adds that extra, extra awesome little frosting, like frosting on the cake, right?
00:47:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good way of describing it.
00:47:17
Speaker
I actually need to adjust my raptor pit on the left side, though, because the ball, when the door goes down, the ball actually just kind of hangs up on it.
00:47:26
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:47:26
Speaker
I got a level level it.
00:47:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:27
Speaker
I bet that's probably a common thing on like attack for Mars too.
00:47:30
Speaker
Right.
00:47:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:33
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's good.
00:47:33
Speaker
So in, in Avengers, what is your favorite mode?
00:47:36
Speaker
If you, if you activate the portal, which mode do you say, I want to do this one first?
00:47:42
Speaker
That's tough.
00:47:42
Speaker
I mean, I definitely head towards time gem because I like the perk of getting longer ball saves and being able to add time.
00:47:51
Speaker
And the time gem mode is nice when you only have one or two balls, which usually early on in a game, you won't have any portal locks or you'll only have one.
00:48:01
Speaker
And so you can really focus left ramp, right ramp, and then hit the moving target.
00:48:06
Speaker
Whereas if you're in a multi-ball going crazy, it's hard to
00:48:08
Speaker
hard to hit that target as it's moving.
00:48:12
Speaker
But I also really like playing Mind Gem because ripping that disc after you've hit all four shots, you can get some serious huge, huge points out of spinning that disc.
00:48:23
Speaker
And oftentimes I'll play Thor because Thor starts off, you know, you already have like two of the letters.
00:48:30
Speaker
So if you play Mind Gem, half of the Mind Gem is spinning the disc.
00:48:33
Speaker
And in Thor, if you spin the disc, it lights an addaball.
00:48:36
Speaker
So you're kind of doubling up on your disc action.
00:48:40
Speaker
So yeah, I usually go Mind or Time.
00:48:44
Speaker
Which is surprising to me because honestly, all I played was Power Gem.
00:48:47
Speaker
I went through each mode because I had to see what everything had to offer.
00:48:53
Speaker
I don't know what it is, but Power Gem just sucks me.
00:48:55
Speaker
Yeah, I do love Power Gem.
00:48:56
Speaker
Actually, I might pick that more often than I did.
00:49:04
Speaker
I don't see that.
00:49:05
Speaker
They're all like, actually, honestly, lately I've just been taking whatever the random one suggested is to me because they're all.
00:49:11
Speaker
I usually do that too.
00:49:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:12
Speaker
I do that because I like the variety on it.
00:49:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:16
Speaker
And I get super excited when I collect all the Avengers and I'm able to start Soul Jump.
00:49:21
Speaker
Because it's just a different way of playing that usually you're flipping with impunity, but now you're like, ah, I only have a few flips and I need to divvy them out.
00:49:31
Speaker
I love how Keith had designed the two kind of parallel tracks in the game where you have your disc modes and your gem quests, but then you also have Avenger collecting.
00:49:42
Speaker
And kind of like Iron Maiden, like you have all those power triangles going on at the same time.
00:49:48
Speaker
And it just leads to fun moments where you just, you never really know when Soul Gem is going to happen.
00:49:54
Speaker
And so it just kind of like shows up and you're like, oh, hey, Soul Gem time.
00:49:57
Speaker
Or maybe you want to get to it and you see, oh, I only need a couple more spins.
00:50:02
Speaker
Let me just finish off Hulk here.
00:50:04
Speaker
And then you get to play Soul Gem.
00:50:05
Speaker
So it's just, it's really cool how it works kind of hand in hand with the rest of the game.
00:50:11
Speaker
You know what?
00:50:12
Speaker
Now you've got to program it.
00:50:13
Speaker
It just popped in my head when you said it's Soul Gem time.
00:50:16
Speaker
You should program it in there.
00:50:18
Speaker
You've got MC Hammer that says, stop.
00:50:20
Speaker
Soul Gem time.
00:50:22
Speaker
I'm thinking of Soul Train.
00:50:25
Speaker
One of those 70s disco songs.
00:50:30
Speaker
I would be shocked...
00:50:32
Speaker
if this game doesn't take number one on pin side, cause it is, well, okay, sorry.
00:50:36
Speaker
Medieval madness has got this weird, askewed score.
00:50:40
Speaker
That's like, no one's ever going to obtain, but like Avengers is just so amazing.
00:50:45
Speaker
I would not be shocked if it's up there at number two.
00:50:48
Speaker
I know we had, we had, um, I think, uh, four or five games in the top 10, uh, earlier, uh, had like, uh, Avengers, Jurassic park, iron maiden, I think.
00:50:59
Speaker
And maybe, uh,
00:51:02
Speaker
Deadpool, yeah.
00:51:03
Speaker
Right now, Deadpool, Iron Maiden, Jurassic Park, and Avengers, all four are in the top 10.
00:51:10
Speaker
Deadpool must have just got moved up because of the code update, actually.
00:51:13
Speaker
I hadn't seen that up there before.
00:51:14
Speaker
Hey, speaking of the code update, anything interesting with that code update?
00:51:20
Speaker
Yeah.
Contributions to Pinball Development
00:51:22
Speaker
So Tanyo, who's the lead programmer on Deadpool, he'd been kind of working on this in the background, getting all those high score tables, like all 20 of them or whatever.
00:51:32
Speaker
And he also reached out to me.
00:51:35
Speaker
He was like, hey, is there anything...
00:51:36
Speaker
that you would want in the game.
00:51:39
Speaker
We're going to be doing a Deadpool release.
00:51:41
Speaker
Any suggestions?
00:51:42
Speaker
And so I came up with, well, it'd be cool to be able to get Mech Suit Multiball again because before you got to 45 weapons, you got to play Mech Suit, and then you never saw Mech Suit the rest of the game.
00:51:52
Speaker
So he's like, oh, okay, well, we can just make it, you know, if you get to 150 weapons and then 250 weapons.
00:51:59
Speaker
So technically you can keep getting him as opposed to not being able to get it.
00:52:03
Speaker
And then I also suggested like an extra ball for ninjas because in that game there's ninjas that you collect, but they don't really do anything.
00:52:14
Speaker
It just says like you've ghosted a ninja.
00:52:16
Speaker
And so I was like, well, it'd be cool to tie that to something like an extra ball.
00:52:20
Speaker
Um,
00:52:21
Speaker
And so I think those two were kind of my biggest contributions.
00:52:26
Speaker
Oh, and also I had sort of complained to him that certain modes would block other modes and he agreed.
00:52:33
Speaker
He was like, oh yeah, let's not have the super spinner or the Katana Rama block out Sauron.
00:52:40
Speaker
And that was the other thing I said is Sauron should probably be worth more points.
00:52:45
Speaker
So he just cranked up the scoring on that.
00:52:47
Speaker
And so it was this really great collaborative effort to get a code update out and everyone was just thrilled with, except for like two or three people on Pinside were angry at something.
00:53:03
Speaker
It was crazy how mad they were that we added three extra songs to disco multiball.
00:53:09
Speaker
We didn't remove any.
00:53:11
Speaker
We added three extra songs.
00:53:12
Speaker
So when you got disco multiball, now you had four different songs that would play at random instead of just the one song.
00:53:20
Speaker
But apparently the three new songs just didn't jive with people.
00:53:24
Speaker
I don't know.
00:53:24
Speaker
They didn't like it.
00:53:25
Speaker
They did.
00:53:27
Speaker
They were like, oh, they're so low energy or whatever.
00:53:30
Speaker
I don't know.
00:53:31
Speaker
I thought they were cool.
00:53:33
Speaker
How dare you?
00:53:34
Speaker
Yeah, seriously.
00:53:37
Speaker
It reminds me on Total Nuclear Annihilation when Scott actually changed the soundtrack a little bit and people were like, oh, that ping or that boink at the beginning.
00:53:48
Speaker
Yeah, the beep.
00:53:49
Speaker
The beep is lower.
00:53:50
Speaker
It just takes it away.
00:53:51
Speaker
I'm like, really?
00:53:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:54
Speaker
You notice that I can tell by listening to it, but really it was a non-factor.
00:53:59
Speaker
So the fact that people are were put out that I can't hear that same song when I get disco multiball, it blows me away that that's that you know what that is important to them.
00:54:10
Speaker
Yeah, and so, you know, Tanya, bless his heart, like within three or four days, turned around another release, adding all these adjustments to let you stay with the old or change the new disco music.
00:54:22
Speaker
And so now everyone's happy.
00:54:25
Speaker
Wow.
00:54:26
Speaker
That is impressive.
00:54:27
Speaker
That really is.
00:54:28
Speaker
That's great that he wasn't like, you know what?
00:54:30
Speaker
Forget you guys.
00:54:31
Speaker
But within days, just took care of it.
00:54:34
Speaker
It was like, you know what?
00:54:34
Speaker
Let's just get it done.
00:54:35
Speaker
See, as opposed to Bruce Nightingale, who had the great line, you can't satisfy anybody, so don't even try.
00:54:45
Speaker
Oh, my goodness.
00:54:46
Speaker
My favorite Bruce-ism.
00:54:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:49
Speaker
Bruce isms are great.
00:54:50
Speaker
He's so organic with them.
00:54:52
Speaker
I'll hear that even when Ron doesn't call them out.
00:54:55
Speaker
Yeah, I noticed them all the time.
00:54:56
Speaker
I'm like that that sentence he just said, I don't think is how anybody else would have said that.
00:55:03
Speaker
Well, the funny thing is, after he said that, I messaged him like, aren't you married?
00:55:07
Speaker
Because I think you probably want to try that.
00:55:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:13
Speaker
Well, and I love the name of the songs too.
00:55:15
Speaker
Disco all day, disco all night, disco all afternoon.
00:55:19
Speaker
It just, yeah.
00:55:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:21
Speaker
It's, uh, it's, it's fun.
00:55:23
Speaker
That Deadpool is fun.
00:55:24
Speaker
Um, it's kind of a mindless game for me where, uh, I bought it cause, uh,
00:55:30
Speaker
I oftentimes, you know, I have a lot of Keith games where you're kind of invested in like thinking of your strategy and all this.
00:55:37
Speaker
Deadpool is like you just party.
00:55:39
Speaker
You just shoot beat up bad guys and listen to disco music.
00:55:43
Speaker
Like it's just a fun kind of escape.
00:55:45
Speaker
So I was really happy with picking up a Deadpool.
00:55:49
Speaker
It makes me feel like playing Street Fighter 2 when I was in high school.
00:55:53
Speaker
That's what it makes me feel like.
00:55:54
Speaker
It's like, yeah, this is fun.
00:55:55
Speaker
It's just yeah, just go ahead and shoot and have fun.
00:55:58
Speaker
That's pretty much it.
00:55:59
Speaker
So the real question we have for you is how many actual WWE's do you have sent around from winning them?
00:56:08
Speaker
Okay, first off, how many did you win?
00:56:10
Speaker
I think I've won four Newenbox Stearns, and only one of those was a WWE LE, but that one got, it never actually crossed my path.
00:56:23
Speaker
They got shipped straight to Travis Murie of a pinball podcast.
00:56:28
Speaker
Okay, all right.
00:56:30
Speaker
He reached out, or I put it up for sale on Pinside, and he reached out to me and was like, hey, yeah,
00:56:36
Speaker
uh ship it to this address here's uh money you know he sent me the money and i'm like all right uh zach sharp this is the address this game is going to and zach was like yeah okay it seems legit uh and so i just basically got a prize payout essentially and then i ended up buying uh my iron maiden with uh with the money now that is an upgrade nice okay did you get the premium or the pro
00:57:02
Speaker
Just the pro because sadly a WWE is not even worth a pro.
00:57:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:09
Speaker
You can't hit a home run on anything, right?
00:57:12
Speaker
You can't hit a home run on anything.
00:57:14
Speaker
There's a Bruce-ism for you.
00:57:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:17
Speaker
You can't hit a home run every time.
00:57:18
Speaker
But OK, I will say, though, Josh and I have gone through the releases that Stern has had in the last 10 years.
00:57:26
Speaker
And it's crazy how many amazing, excellent games are in that run, where if you wanted to just build a collection on the last 10 years, you could easily have 20 great games in there.
00:57:40
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:57:40
Speaker
I mean, Neil McRae in the United Kingdom, he was showing his game room.
00:57:47
Speaker
He said he had like 20 capture cards for his LCDs so when he streams, he can show you the display.
00:57:53
Speaker
And I'm like, wait a minute, 20?
00:57:55
Speaker
I'm counting on my fingers.
00:57:57
Speaker
I'm like, wasn't there only like 24 LCD games?
00:58:00
Speaker
Like, he owns every Stern except for like four in the last five years or whatever.
00:58:05
Speaker
It just goes to show you how many hits have been being cranked out.
00:58:10
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's pretty amazing.
00:58:12
Speaker
And I'm actually since I didn't play pinball until like five or six years ago, I don't really have that same nostalgic connection to a lot of those Williams Valley games.
00:58:24
Speaker
My friend loves Adam's Family.
00:58:26
Speaker
That's his favorite game.
00:58:27
Speaker
He sold his gold because he wants to have a a fully restored, you know, like from HEP, just super nice.
00:58:34
Speaker
And I was like, I played Adam's Family and I just don't get it.
00:58:38
Speaker
I just don't love it.
00:58:40
Speaker
Maybe I'm just in the minority, but I like the complexity of the new games because there's so much more to do than the three things that a lot of the 90s era games have.
00:58:51
Speaker
Adding to what you said, it's different things to do, but also maybe nostalgia plays a part of why people might want the 90s game just because they remember playing them in the arcades and certain things about them.
00:59:02
Speaker
You guys have done more hits than Gottlieb did in the 80s and 90s combined, so...
00:59:06
Speaker
Oh, poor Gottlieb.
00:59:07
Speaker
They were so good in their EM games.
00:59:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:11
Speaker
You know, Gottlieb is like the, you know, it's like Sears.
00:59:15
Speaker
Sears had like such a run for like 80 years.
00:59:17
Speaker
And then in the 90s and 2000s, they're like, I think we're done.
00:59:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:24
Speaker
How has life been moving from Washington, which was your home state?
00:59:28
Speaker
You're born and raised, right?
00:59:30
Speaker
And moving to almost halfway across the nation.
00:59:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that was a fun road trip in the middle of, you know, May, right when COVID was breaking out.
00:59:43
Speaker
But, you know, I'm situated here now, working at home, basically, only going to the factory to get play fields and things like that.
00:59:52
Speaker
But it's kind of just I'm on my own here in my apartment and
00:59:57
Speaker
uh, you know, nothing really different.
01:00:01
Speaker
Um, other than I do miss some of my friends back in Washington, but, uh, luckily with how cheap plane flights are right now, we've actually been able to just kind of head over there, uh, on a weekend and come back and, and it, you know, justifies the cost for the time.
01:00:18
Speaker
Um, and so I can still hang out with people and, um,
01:00:22
Speaker
It's yeah, I kind of wish, you know, this whole COVID thing wasn't happening and I'd be able to actually go out to like Logan Arcade and and play in pinball things here and and actually kind of start to develop my Chicago life.
01:00:36
Speaker
But right now it's it's like nothing has really changed.
01:00:38
Speaker
I've just sort of physically moved.
01:00:41
Speaker
But my actual life hasn't changed too much.
01:00:45
Speaker
Okay, I know Seattle has an amazing competitive scene.
01:00:49
Speaker
However, I would argue that I don't think there's a tougher scene of competitive pinball than the amount of high quality talent that you guys have right around you.
01:01:02
Speaker
Oh, man.
01:01:02
Speaker
And you show up and you're like, okay, so I'm in a foursome.
01:01:05
Speaker
And, you know, I have Tim Sexton, I got you, I got Keith Elwin, and I have Lyman.
01:01:12
Speaker
Okay, who's going to win?
01:01:13
Speaker
Okay.
01:01:15
Speaker
Yeah, I know.
01:01:16
Speaker
I, um, you know, in the Washington state champs, I had to go against Kaylee George in the finals.
01:01:21
Speaker
Okay.
01:01:22
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:22
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:22
Speaker
That was, that was so tough.
01:01:25
Speaker
And the round before that was tough.
01:01:26
Speaker
The round before that was tough.
01:01:27
Speaker
I just can't imagine basically that amount of difficulty, but even more, uh, for Illinois, uh, on a weekend tournament at Josh Sharpe's house.
01:01:37
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
01:01:38
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:40
Speaker
Moving around, you know, you've been pinball most of your life and whatnot.
01:01:44
Speaker
Is there someone that you just, it's awesome now to be working side by side with at Stern that you're just like, I can't believe I, you know, I played, I don't know, like Steve Ritchie's games growing up and now I get to work with the dude or is there anyone that you kind of starstruck with or is it just kind of business as usual?
01:02:02
Speaker
It's, it's pretty cool.
01:02:06
Speaker
Working with Keith directly because I get to see kind of how the,
01:02:10
Speaker
how it's made.
01:02:11
Speaker
You know, I get to see every little like thought that he has, you know, that he runs by me or, or, you know, ideas as he's coming up with them.
01:02:21
Speaker
I get to see kind of the process of how he flushes out a game and, and it's just really cool to be, you know, working with the goat.
Pinball Design and Maintenance Challenges
01:02:31
Speaker
Have you thought of designing something yourself or tried with that?
01:02:35
Speaker
Ooh, I don't know.
01:02:37
Speaker
Now that I see all the stuff that designers like Keith has to deal with, I don't know if I'd be up for it.
01:02:42
Speaker
There's so much.
01:02:44
Speaker
I mean, maybe Keith is an exception because he also does the rules and the gameplay and all that stuff.
01:02:52
Speaker
But aside from that, there's also just the physical nature of pinball, of knowing you can have a guide rail here and how that's going to affect the shot versus a post versus a metal...
01:03:04
Speaker
thing you know there's just so so much going on when it comes to designing a game like sure i could draw out a layout in pencil but if you told me to okay go build it go build that you know it would it would look nothing like a real pitball machine it's being held together with duct tape and wood glue it'd be awesome you know do you like working on games like getting under there and doing little tweaks and uh you know changing flippers and all that first
01:03:32
Speaker
Not particularly.
01:03:34
Speaker
It's more like I'll do it when I have to, but I don't really find joy in tweaking things.
01:03:45
Speaker
I'm pretty much like, can I play it?
01:03:48
Speaker
Yes.
01:03:48
Speaker
Do all the switches work?
01:03:49
Speaker
Yes.
01:03:50
Speaker
Okay, I'm good to go.
01:03:51
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:53
Speaker
But I will say there was some satisfaction in like dialing in the telekinesis lock on Stranger Things.
01:04:00
Speaker
And, you know, once you actually finish the task, it always feels great, no matter what it is.
01:04:06
Speaker
But motivating myself to, you know, because I know what goes into it.
01:04:10
Speaker
I know I'm going to have to like,
01:04:12
Speaker
figure out how this thing, you know, how to get this off safely without breaking things and how to not lose the little washer and, and, and how to put it back together.
01:04:23
Speaker
And I know all the troubles and stuff.
01:04:25
Speaker
So if I can avoid doing any of that, I will, but once it's done, if you end up doing it, I'm always very happy, you know, that I did it.
01:04:33
Speaker
So it's kind of just the way it is.
01:04:37
Speaker
That's kind of how I was with my Jurassic Park.
01:04:39
Speaker
I got the Pro a couple weeks ago, and the problem was every time you auto-launch or whatever, the ball would halfway clunk up the 180 ramp.
01:04:49
Speaker
Yeah, whatever happened to that?
01:04:51
Speaker
You brought that up before.
01:04:53
Speaker
I talked to someone.
01:04:55
Speaker
They said if you put a small washer underneath the left fork of the shooter lane, it solves that whole problem.
01:05:03
Speaker
I think I've had it clunk maybe once since I've done that, and
01:05:07
Speaker
I don't know.
01:05:07
Speaker
It's funny how just little stuff like that, you know, you don't want, it's like, really do I have to take the glass off and do this?
01:05:12
Speaker
But once you do it, you're so much happier with the end result.
01:05:14
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:15
Speaker
You really, yeah.
01:05:15
Speaker
It's, it definitely is a nice once, once you, once you get it working the way you want it.
01:05:20
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:21
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:21
Speaker
The, the auto launcher on Jurassic part, at least mine, it just feels automatic.
01:05:25
Speaker
It's just like, but it's okay.
01:05:27
Speaker
Actually I will say the auto launcher on, and I know there's a whole bunch of different, uh, super duper secret skill shots, but with, uh,
01:05:35
Speaker
with Avengers, when you just hit the auto launcher, it just goes flying around that, uh, giant wire ramp.
01:05:41
Speaker
It just feels so cool.
01:05:43
Speaker
Like that ball travels, uh, all over the place.
01:05:46
Speaker
And then you just hit it right in the tower.
01:05:48
Speaker
I still love that.
01:05:49
Speaker
I mean, once Josh told us, that's fun.
01:05:52
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:52
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:52
Speaker
That's my favorite.
01:05:53
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:54
Speaker
Super skill shot and just full plunge.
01:05:57
Speaker
I, I, I love Keith's, uh, not all, all three of his games have unique, uh,
01:06:02
Speaker
that can help you get the ball to different places based on how you plunge it.
01:06:08
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:09
Speaker
Well, and I love that he's starting to reutilize an actual skill shot, right?
01:06:14
Speaker
Like, I have turtles, and it's fun, but I don't actually use the plunger.
01:06:19
Speaker
I just hit the... You hold the left flipper and hit the auto launch button and wait for it to come all the way around.
01:06:24
Speaker
Right.
01:06:24
Speaker
Yeah, I know on Avengers, that secret skill shot is so tough, but if you go for it and hit it, it's so big and it feels so satisfying.
01:06:33
Speaker
You get that portal lock and you're like, I earned that.
01:06:35
Speaker
Yes.
01:06:36
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:38
Speaker
Yeah, Joshua drew a Sharpie on my game.
01:06:41
Speaker
Okay, pull it to this point.
01:06:42
Speaker
Here it is.
01:06:46
Speaker
Well, what's funny, too, is you're like, I don't know how I get Soul Jam.
01:06:49
Speaker
And I'm like, dude, you just collect all the Avengers.
01:06:50
Speaker
And you're like, oh.
01:06:52
Speaker
Josh, I told you I don't read rules.
01:06:55
Speaker
I need to read rules.
01:06:56
Speaker
That's what I've learned from tonight.
01:06:59
Speaker
Now you've got to get your GC back.
01:07:01
Speaker
I know.
01:07:03
Speaker
Hey, I will say, even with you knowing the rules, you only beat me by 500.
01:07:05
Speaker
Yeah, 500,000.
01:07:06
Speaker
Okay.
01:07:08
Speaker
Same diff.
01:07:08
Speaker
That's like one Hulk shot.
01:07:12
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:16
Speaker
It depends.
01:07:16
Speaker
Are we talking Wizard of Oz scoring or are we talking Attack from Mars scoring?
01:07:21
Speaker
Yeah, what percentage delta are we talking about?
01:07:27
Speaker
Yeah, actually, I will say on mine, I didn't even put it in the tilt bob yet because I actually, I really don't share games that much.
01:07:33
Speaker
And so I'm like, I just got bored and I didn't put it in.
01:07:37
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, if you're not shaking it anyway, then it probably doesn't matter too much.
01:07:43
Speaker
Makes it easier to death save.
01:07:44
Speaker
If you want to practice your nudging, then you need to put it in there so you know exactly how much you can get away with in a tournament.
01:07:52
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
01:07:52
Speaker
Yeah, I have noticed that.
01:07:55
Speaker
There's a couple of games that... Like, my Attack from Mars, for some odd reason, the tilt was just weird in that game.
01:08:00
Speaker
I don't know if it was the shaker mode or what it was, but I ended up just taking it out.
01:08:05
Speaker
Yeah, I've noticed you really have to put the tilt bob low or else it will just bobble and tilt you like crazy.
01:08:13
Speaker
I don't know if it has to do with the ring position or something, but on my games, I basically pull the bob all the way down until the tip of the cone is just barely in the ring.
01:08:25
Speaker
So it's almost like I don't have a tilt bob, but it adds just enough so that it puts that edge where, yes, you can tilt.
01:08:34
Speaker
Do you ever use the earplug tip where you put that in?
01:08:39
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah.
01:08:40
Speaker
So if you have the earplug, you can set it a little tighter then.
01:08:42
Speaker
Then you can actually move the plumb up a little bit.
01:08:47
Speaker
And then that's a much more predictable, nice tilt mechanism.
01:08:51
Speaker
I don't know how games...
01:08:54
Speaker
In the wild, like in the 90s, how are people not cursing their mouths off with tilts?
01:09:00
Speaker
Like, I play a random Valley Williams game, and if you just put the tilt bob in without thinking about it, it's like feather tight because it just bop, bop, bop, tilt, tilt, tilt.
01:09:10
Speaker
And like, it just blows my mind.
01:09:11
Speaker
Like, maybe operators just didn't put in tilt bobs.
01:09:14
Speaker
Maybe that's why.
01:09:16
Speaker
Like operators, especially in the wild, I think that was one of the challenges and still actually to some degree is a challenge with having pinball in the wild is you have to have an operator who is invested in maintenance.
01:09:31
Speaker
They can't just throw something in a 7-Eleven or whatever it is and just leave it because the game will just get destroyed.
01:09:39
Speaker
Like flippers will be gone or just shots will not be available or there'll be some random ball lock.
01:09:45
Speaker
You actually have to maintain the game.
01:09:47
Speaker
So otherwise it just gets thrashed and then no one plays it.
01:09:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, luckily, people have started, their passion has just shown through of, you know, I love pinball.
01:09:59
Speaker
I want other people to play pinball, so I'm going to operate pinball.
01:10:02
Speaker
And that's just been able to allow more people to play.
01:10:05
Speaker
It's a shame a lot of places are closing down.
01:10:08
Speaker
Hopefully they can open back up or new places can open again once things get back to normal.
01:10:14
Speaker
Yeah.
01:10:16
Speaker
Just like Bruce Nightingale and whatnot, man.
01:10:17
Speaker
I hope when all this stuff finally goes away that they can open up the Silver Ball Saloon again.
01:10:21
Speaker
Because it's sad to see, especially a veteran like Bruce.
01:10:24
Speaker
It just...
01:10:32
Speaker
It sucks.
01:10:33
Speaker
It really does.
01:10:34
Speaker
Get out there, play some pinball at your local place, glove up, mask up, grab all the extra hand sanitizer you can.
01:10:42
Speaker
If you don't feel safe, then don't do it.
01:10:44
Speaker
But seriously, there's a lot of people that are suffering right now.
01:10:48
Speaker
If you listen to Jeff Tealus on Pinball Profile on 284, he talks about cabin fever.
01:10:53
Speaker
And man, it's just...
01:10:55
Speaker
It's sad.
01:10:55
Speaker
It's sad that places like that that are amazing, that are staples to communities are having a really hard time because they're not nowhere near even like half capacity.
01:11:06
Speaker
And so just support local pinball.
01:11:08
Speaker
We got, you know, like Roger Sharp said, the only way we're going to grow pinball is by the local scene, by having it out on location.
01:11:16
Speaker
And it's very true.
01:11:17
Speaker
That's how a lot of us find it.
01:11:19
Speaker
So.
01:11:20
Speaker
So Raymond, how many games are you working on simultaneously?
01:11:26
Speaker
I mean, usually just one, but sometimes I can't help myself, like on the weekends and middle of the night, just, you know, punching up a few lines of code in the Avengers.
01:11:38
Speaker
How far is it away from 1.0?
01:11:40
Speaker
I don't know.
01:11:42
Speaker
It's what is it?
01:11:43
Speaker
9.3.
01:11:43
Speaker
So 0.7 away.
01:11:48
Speaker
Wow.
01:11:50
Speaker
That was an awesome answer.
01:11:52
Speaker
Okay.
01:11:52
Speaker
That's true.
01:11:53
Speaker
Ask a stupid answer.
01:11:54
Speaker
You go stupid.
01:11:55
Speaker
Well,
Podcast Wrap-up and Listener Engagement
01:11:56
Speaker
cool.
01:11:56
Speaker
Um, we're kind of getting close to our wrap up time.
01:11:59
Speaker
Is there anything else you want to talk about Raymond that we haven't really discussed or whatnot?
01:12:03
Speaker
I don't know.
01:12:04
Speaker
I mean, we talked about, uh, Avengers and, uh, pinball, uh,
01:12:09
Speaker
Okay, well, we'll definitely get you out of hat.
01:12:12
Speaker
And just so anybody knows, I do have some people who have asked for hats and they are on the queue to get sent out.
01:12:19
Speaker
I have been super busy and have not been able to get to them.
01:12:22
Speaker
But we'll definitely get one out to you, Raymond.
01:12:25
Speaker
And always check out Raymond's Twitch, RaydayPinball, and he will give you the news on exactly how to play those games like they should be played.
01:12:35
Speaker
And check out the archived stuff on YouTube.
01:12:38
Speaker
Raymond, if they want to reach out to you, how can they get a hold of you?
01:12:41
Speaker
you can always just message me on Facebook.
01:12:43
Speaker
Um, even if you're not like added as a friend, I still, you know, see those messages.
01:12:48
Speaker
Um, or, uh, I have a website technically, uh, Rayday pinball.com.
01:12:54
Speaker
And I think there's, uh, there might be an email buried in the do or die, uh, podcast link, which we'll see if that ever happens again.
01:13:03
Speaker
Um, uh, but yeah, you can just, uh, just Facebook message me.
01:13:07
Speaker
It's probably the easiest.
01:13:09
Speaker
All right.
01:13:09
Speaker
Well, thanks again.
01:13:10
Speaker
We really appreciate you taking the time out and talking pinball, which is something we all have a passion for.
01:13:15
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:17
Speaker
Thanks for having me on guys.
01:13:19
Speaker
For sure.
01:13:19
Speaker
We love having you on, man.
01:13:20
Speaker
That was, it's you're welcome back anytime.
01:13:22
Speaker
It's pretty cool to have you on.
01:13:23
Speaker
So awesome.
01:13:25
Speaker
Before we wrap this up, though, I want to do two things.
01:13:28
Speaker
The first thing is I want to give a quick shout out to Poor Man's Pinball Podcast, along with Tim Lee and Glenn Watcher.
01:13:38
Speaker
If you did not listen to their last episode, which was just yesterday, it was live.
01:13:43
Speaker
And so it usually takes a couple of days to get up on the podcatcher.
01:13:47
Speaker
We were nominated as one of the podcasts of genius.
01:13:51
Speaker
Did you hear this, Scott?
01:13:53
Speaker
I did not know I was genius category, but no, no.
01:13:56
Speaker
Good.
01:13:58
Speaker
I want to hurry and play this for you guys.
01:13:59
Speaker
Do you mind setting through this, Raymond?
01:14:01
Speaker
It's just a minute long.
01:14:02
Speaker
Sure.
01:14:06
Speaker
War Man's Tribe presents Podcasts of Genius.
01:14:10
Speaker
Podcasts of Genius.
01:14:13
Speaker
Today we salute you, nicest pinball podcast in the universe.
01:14:18
Speaker
It's the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
01:14:21
Speaker
You could be like other podcasters and rip other shows, dropping F-bombs, trying to be cool, but you stinkers know your swag is better than theirs.
01:14:30
Speaker
Only champions wear their beanies.
01:14:33
Speaker
Sometimes you want to give the middle finger, but you just give them that pointy finger, cause you're from Utah.
01:14:40
Speaker
Just don't bring up deep roots.
01:14:42
Speaker
Sure, you might not win a twippy by being nice, but you can lay your heads on that comfy pillow at night knowing your logo is on a pinball machine.
01:14:53
Speaker
So mix yourselves a couple of Shirley Temple's loser kids, cause you'll always be winners with us.
01:15:08
Speaker
I'm sorry.
01:15:08
Speaker
I absolutely loved it.
01:15:09
Speaker
It was okay.
01:15:10
Speaker
That was awesome.
01:15:11
Speaker
Cause I loved those Miller light commercial.
01:15:14
Speaker
It wasn't like Miller light or bubble bud light or something like that.
01:15:17
Speaker
One of the two.
01:15:18
Speaker
Like what?
01:15:19
Speaker
Yeah.
01:15:19
Speaker
Oh no, they were so funny.
01:15:21
Speaker
Yeah.
01:15:23
Speaker
So thank you guys for that.
01:15:24
Speaker
It was awesome.
01:15:26
Speaker
Yeah.
01:15:26
Speaker
No, I was smiling over here.
01:15:28
Speaker
That's pretty awesome.
01:15:30
Speaker
So, and then one last thing, this is episode 48.
01:15:33
Speaker
We are coming up on episode 50, which it's a little bit before our two year anniversary, but Holy crap, we're hitting the big five Oh, right.
01:15:43
Speaker
And so if you want to be on the podcast, please send us a clip at loser kid, pinball podcast at gmail.com.
01:15:50
Speaker
We would love to have your, put you at the end of the episode or whatever it is.
01:15:54
Speaker
We're going to gather a bunch of these up, uh,
01:15:57
Speaker
say whatever you want to say.
01:15:59
Speaker
Just forewarn, if you do swear, we will probably edit it out.
01:16:02
Speaker
We are family friendly.
01:16:04
Speaker
Just like the Miller Lite commercial said.
01:16:09
Speaker
And so, but we would love to hear from you.
01:16:11
Speaker
And so thank you for listening to us for, for two years now.
01:16:15
Speaker
Holy crap.
01:16:16
Speaker
And we want to thank people like Raymond Davidson and Keith Elwin and Eric Meniere and Jack danger.
01:16:21
Speaker
I mean, all those people that have come on our show, Jeff Teolis, Martin Robbins.
01:16:25
Speaker
I mean, it just, we've had a slew of people that have come on, just come to be us with us, keep pinball positive and just have fun with it, man.
01:16:33
Speaker
And I think that's what we really, I think after these two years, that's what we figured out is, um,
01:16:39
Speaker
Let's have fun and let's play pinball, right?
01:16:42
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
01:16:43
Speaker
But yeah, that's my two spills.
01:16:45
Speaker
So send us a clip.
01:16:48
Speaker
We hope to hear from you soon.
01:16:50
Speaker
You want to send us off there, Scott, and tell them where they can find us?
01:16:54
Speaker
Yeah.
01:16:54
Speaker
So check us out.
01:16:55
Speaker
We usually record roughly about every two to three weeks, depending on the news at Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
01:17:03
Speaker
Also, you can reach out to us on Facebook.
01:17:05
Speaker
It seems to be the most consistent place that we are.
01:17:09
Speaker
And you can email us at – what's our email address, Josh?
01:17:13
Speaker
Loserkidpinballpodcast at gmail.com.
01:17:17
Speaker
And we're also on Instagram or InstaFace or the Twitterverse or all those other things.
01:17:24
Speaker
Josh does all that fun stuff.
01:17:26
Speaker
And we would love to hear from you if you guys have anything that you want us to talk about or suggestions for the show.
01:17:31
Speaker
Go ahead and send those in.
01:17:34
Speaker
And we will catch you in about two to three weeks.
01:17:36
Speaker
Again, check out Raymond Davidson on his Twitch.
01:17:40
Speaker
And when he gets back to competitive pinball, we'll certainly look forward to the Do or Die podcast.
01:17:46
Speaker
Thanks again, Raymond.
01:17:47
Speaker
Yeah, thanks again for having me on.
01:18:19
Speaker
Shut up and sit down.