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A Brave New World For Beer Awards
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“Year one for us is proof of concept.”
In January, we unveiled plans for a new form of beer awards being conceived by industry titans Justin Fox and Jayne Lewis. Five months on and submissions are now open for The Beer Championships, so we invited them to join us on the show to find out more.
We delve into the genesis for this new approach to assessing and celebrating greatness in beer, their reasons for heading down this path after years spent judging across the world, and their desire to achieve significant commercial benefits for finalists and champions. We also tease from them the Oscars-inspired name for the trophies they’ll be handing out in October.
It would be remiss of us to have two such respected individuals, with rare breadth of knowledge across many facets of the beer community, on the show and not ask more of them.
So, in the second half of the main chat, we invite Justin and Jayne to tell us what they’re seeing and hearing about the beer world’s health and prospects, and to share their personal feelings on where the industry sits as we approach the midpoint of 2026.
Talking of that, we’ll be taking a short break from running new extended interviews from the end of June. We’ll still publish weekly news updates; however, throughout July, these will be paired with some of our favourite shows from the past two years. Fresh long-form interviews will return at the end of July.
We’re working on a major new project that’s launching in the second half of 2026, and Will, James and Matt will all be overseas for stretches between now and September, hence the short change in transmissions.
In terms of this week’s news, we cover a VA on the Central Coast, the opening of a European-style beer hall in Hobart, the final leg of our 86 tram Crafty Crawl, and the launch of our competition to find the dream Aussie Beer XI now the World Cup is underway.
Start of segments:
- 0:00 – The Week On Crafty
- 12:30 – Industry Insights with American Canning Machines
- 13:40 – Justin & Jayne Part 1
- 38:47 – Enter The Beer Championships
- 39:39 – Justin & Jayne Part 2
To find out more about featuring on The Crafty Pint Podcast or otherwise partnering with The Crafty Pint, contact craig@craftypint.com.
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Transcript
Introduction and Weather
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Crafty Pint podcast. I'm Will. I'm James, coming at you from Adelaide. Will, the first of a number of weeks in which we'll be ah discussing the week on Crafty and the week's craft beer news from ah not just opposite states, but the opposite side of the world soon. So, um you know, um I'm hoping hoping that the the weather is treating you better in Melbourne. it has been here in Adelaide where I landed in grey, abject heavy rain and um then got very wet trying to work out how to get into my Airbnb. But that's another story. um How's it house things?
00:00:37
Speaker
Good, good. No, weather in Melbourne is awful, as it always is tune in June and July. So you don't have to worry about that. But yes, to make it clear, um it's not like I'm the one doing the travelling, at least not yet.
Upcoming Travel and Episode Plans
00:00:49
Speaker
I'll be away more in September for my honeymoon. But James, you're you're on the road a bit. ah You'll be heading back home to the UK to see the family soon.
00:00:59
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So in Adelaide for a conference this week, get back Friday, fly out to the UK the following day. We'll keep these ah the weekly chats going about the week's news. But one thing we should probably point out is that um not only am I going to overseas for a few weeks, our podcast producer is going to be visiting his family in the US.
00:01:15
Speaker
In fact, and he probably gets back around about the time that you go off on your honeymoon as well. So we've got a hectic few months coming up. but um But yeah, so the the plan is that we're actually going to take a break from running new extended interview interviews throughout July. So we'll have this week's main chat coming up later. We've got one more panel discussion next week, which will be our, I guess, our final new show of the year. We'll still keep, as I said, keep the yeah weekly new sort of weekend crafty chats going, but there'll be no new stuff until um last weekend in July. I think we're taking taking a few weeks off and we're going to rerun some of our favourite episodes from the two years to date.
00:01:49
Speaker
Yes, definitely. So look out for that. um I'm sort of having fun going through, but there'll be three or four um ah older episodes that are sort of favourites of ours that we'll replay and then we'll be back with fresh stuff. yeah We can put a shout out and say if anyone has one that they'd love to see put out there again so that, you know, fresh, you know, maybe more recent listeners or viewers can have a listen, then you can let us know at pat at podcast at craftypint.com. But anyway. It's not allowed to be Topher either. Yeah.
00:02:19
Speaker
love flow Yeah, we've kind of done a couple of wildflower related ones. And weirdly enough, my first stop today as I was walking in, was about to make a comment about Mish to Luke, my colleague that was walking into the building with. And was like, oh, don't think you'll know who Mish is. It turns out he'd actually watched the Mish podcast last night. And lo and behold, three minutes later, Mish walked into the building. So that was quite a lovely surprise. But suppose, you know, he comes to Adelaide. If someone from Adelaide is back there, there's a good chance they're walking to a brewery that you're in at some point. So.
00:02:49
Speaker
Or drinking Coopers anyway. yeah Exactly. um But anyway, I guess that's ah enough digression for for for one intro chat. So back to the the week on crafting.
Six String Brewery's Administration
00:03:01
Speaker
Yeah, quite sad news ah towards the end of last week with Six String entering voluntary administration. They're true Central Coast pioneers. They've they've been at it for a really long time. um Very legendary figures in the area. People...
00:03:17
Speaker
in that part of ah New South Wales really know their beers and yeah, it comes sort of only a year really since they moved into a much larger premises. Yeah, yeah like less less than 18 months on from when you spoke to um Sharon and Chris ah about their their move, which I think, you know, it's been something that's been on the cards for a long time. they'd very They very long ago hit capacity. um When I had a chat to Sharon last week on the day that they had gone to VA and yeah about what their hopes and plans are. I've been trying to check in since to see how they're going. But um there was a line she said to you when you know when we did the article um almost 18 months ago saying, you know, you do get this feeling and you're pissing your stomach about whether it's the right time to do something like this, do an expansion. But, you know, I guess they were probably almost in a sort of
00:04:03
Speaker
You know, you have to, like you't you can't be butting up against, you know, maximum capacity all this time and knowing that there's more demand out there and not do something necessarily. um So hopefully they're able to, you know, restructure, get things in shape and and and carry on because they have certainly been flying the flag for um for craft beer for a long time, you know, um well over, it well, close to decade and a half now on the Central Coast, picking up a few awards along the way. So i wish Chris and Sharon all the best and and their team as well.
Chris Cooper's Beer Ventures
00:04:28
Speaker
Yes, and speaking of sort of pioneers in a local beer scene, I just caught up with Chris Cooper in Hobart, Tasmania. He's launched the Beer Hall. So Chris is the sort of driving force behind Preachers, which I think if anyone's ever been to Hobart,
00:04:45
Speaker
that they've probably They've at least been told that they have to go to Preacher's. There's a beautiful bar in a small cottage with this bus out the back. It's just always been it's always flying the flag for Craft Beer in Hobart. ah He's also involved with Last Rites Brewing with his business partner, Phil. They've got Bootle Beasley as well. so Uh, he's also just opened a bakery too. Chris is a guy who's, uh, sort of got his finger in many pies and, uh, yeah, he's just opened beer hall. It's a European style pub, basically taken over a place that wasn't running too well. And, uh, 15 taps and half of them will pour classic European beers in imports and that kind of thing. And then the other half serving independent Tasmanian beer, provided that it's a European style. So he's like, you know, keen, he's got Moo Brew Stout on tap. It's a broad net, that I guess a lot of beer comes from Europe, but an Italian Pilsner on at the moment from Bish Brewing. And yeah, he's kind of keen to showcase those styles of beers, I guess, rather than the purely hop lead.
00:05:48
Speaker
I'm doing my best not to say you can't cut 15 in half equally, but we'll ah move on. That's just the ah the math pedant in me. I know that's it's great to see. i you know we sort of um I think when I wrote the piece on Six String, it's like it is very tough out there. for isn's It's not easy for anyone, as Sharon said when I chatted to her last week.
00:06:05
Speaker
um But I think you know it does remain mixed you know for... for The businesses that are running up against a brick wall or those that are closing or those are up for sale, there are still new openings coming. that you know There are people still seeing opportunities. as a belief that you know you get your offering right. there ah There's a market out there. um So, um yeah, I mean, it's's it's certainly um very fluid times, I think.
00:06:26
Speaker
Yeah, and Chris, well, first of all, to correct the record, it was actually 16 taps. So that's neatly divisible. So we don't have to worry about that. I feel seen. And secondly, you know, Chris said that he's felt very insulated from a lot of sort of ups and downs because unlike maybe...
00:06:45
Speaker
bars in Salamanca, even though Preachers is close, or or the sort of Hobart city centre or the waterfront, which do rely on tourists a lot. he' He's kind of running local pubs for Hobart locals and he's found you know the prices may have gone up and those kind of things, the cost of doing business, but people are still really keen to go out and and go to a great local pub.
00:07:04
Speaker
Yeah, no good stuff. I look forward to visiting next time I make it down to ah Hobart, Tasmania. um And I guess so back on the mainland, you've ah put out the the third part of the ever, it well, I say ever expanding, maybe it will continue to expand, the 86 tram crawl. um You know, it's celebrated its 10th anniversary from its debut as a single piece. And now it's now it's a three-parter and you've taken it pretty significantly far north into Melbourne's northern suburbs.
00:07:33
Speaker
Yes, if you're wondering if you've suddenly jumped back to last week's episode, we were planning on having that story out. But then um James and the team of World Cup lovers at the Crafty Pint decided to launch a bit of a a bit of a project to try and get beer lovers talking about their favourite beers in a different way. Right, James? That's right, yes. um it came together very quickly,
Aussie Beer Team Project
00:07:57
Speaker
actually. so it was like, should we be doing something around the World Cup?
00:08:00
Speaker
I can't. I'm sure I've put these sort of ideas out before and never come up with something. And then an idea was hatched about six days before the tournament started and very quickly it sort of e evolved into what it is so we just thought it'd be a fun thing to do um to sort of ask people to nominate which beers they think should represent an an aussie beer 11 on the world stage um so we'll include the the link in the show notes but essentially the idea is that you can either nominate one player in a position or so one beer in a position and say why it should be selected or you can pick an entire 11 and a manager which um a lot of people have been doing actually it takes it takes a fair bit of time and effort but um
00:08:37
Speaker
I guess it's at at a busy time for us um with this other big project that's coming, which is another reason why I guess we're taking a few weeks ah on a sort of slow down pace for the podcast. um It's quite distracting. These these entries come in ah and I can't stop reading them.
00:08:51
Speaker
But um But yes, so the idea is we've got some prizes being put forward by Carwin Sellers. So every nominat winning nominated beer that gets a place in the team will win a mixed pack, one of Carwin's new Super 6 boxes, as well as a unique um sort of soccer top for the fabric printer Fabric Printer in Perth with your beer choice and its player number on the back. um So we're going to announce the the winning nominations for the goalkeeper and defenders tomorrow, Friday. And then we'll do the midfielders next week and then the striker, centre forward and the manager the week after that. So lots of prizes up for grabs. So please do jump on that and keep me distracted.
00:09:31
Speaker
ah Excellent. And um it was good timing actually because I called into local brewing last week to refresh their page on the Crafty Pint. They're based in Clifton Hill and they've long had a sponsorship deal, partnership with Melbourne Victory. And they're playing all well all world cup games from 11am at the tap room so they're opening pretty early for some of those and they're also playing this weekend's socceroos match versus america from 5am so that's a pretty impressive opening time for a craft brewery
00:10:03
Speaker
you'll You'll be there while you will. I know you're a huge soccer fan. when when we when when When we had these early discussions going on about this sort of competition promo thing, you were like, I just don't understand it. like I just don't know why. I had to start a new Slack channel to take you out of it just so I wasn't upsetting you anymore by our our plans for for getting excited about the World Cup.
00:10:23
Speaker
i um I have been having it on TV every so often. I probably shouldn't say that. I do like to have it on while I'm working, but... You know, i when I went to select a team, I went, God, this takes too long to to do. And I actually don't know what most of these position players do except for the goalie.
00:10:41
Speaker
Well, there you go. You could just nominate nominate a goalie and see how you go. But you'd be strucken off unless you use a ah a false name. Anyway, talking of, you know, champion beers, lovely little segue there. um i i think it was late January, I spoke to Jane Lewis and Justin Fox as I guess we sort of helped them announce to the world their plans for a new form of beer awards.
New Beer Awards Initiative
00:11:01
Speaker
um They've been, I guess, working in the background to take the ideas that I think, you know, Justin at least, his his first ideas around this probably started at least five years ago before he brought Jane on board. They're obviously two very experienced beer judges, very experienced brewers, very experienced people in the beer industry. um So submissions, entries are now open for the first beer championships, um closing very soon, next Wednesday as things stand. um So we brought them on for a bit of a chat about how their ideas evolved, why they're doing it, what it's all about, why they think people should get involved. um which is it cool. um And they reveal what the that the trophy will be called, their sort of version of the Oscar for Australian australian beers. But we shan't spoil that. We'll let you listen into the show to to catch that.
00:11:42
Speaker
And we also took the opportunity, given they've got between them, you know, decades of experience working and in various positions around the the beer industry, winning a bunch of awards. They now consult in very different ways to the beer industry as well. So we took the opportunity to have a chat with them, I guess, get like ah a sense check, like ah their feel on how things are going around the industry, what what people are talking to them about, what people's you know hopes and fears are.
00:12:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's a wonderful conversation. They're both ah very sort of open about their thoughts on it. ah If you want to help Justin out, sounds like you could buy some more stainless steel tanks, everyone, even if you don't need them. But um yeah, it's it's a wonderful chat. So enjoy it. And if you do, make sure you like, subscribe, leave us comment, review, or you can reach us directly at podcast at craftypint.com. Cheers.
00:12:28
Speaker
Cheers.
00:12:31
Speaker
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00:12:58
Speaker
Where possible, there's an increase in consolidation between breweries to maximise efficiencies and reap the benefits. Breweries are creating hospitality experiences that go beyond beer, with broader menus and drink offerings, play spaces for kids, food trucks, live music, live sport and more.
00:13:14
Speaker
They're carving out their space in communities, and that's driving greater demand for distributed product at higher prices and margins. If you're looking for guidance through a similar period of change, ACM have solutions ready and waiting for you.
00:13:28
Speaker
Give Scotty at American Canning Machines a call on 0431 755 602 today. Jane and Justin, thank you for joining us.
00:13:40
Speaker
justin thank you for joining us Thank so much. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thanks, Will. We're here just as entries to the beer championships has come out. Do you want to tell us a little bit about what sparked the idea? Look at us. We're two diplomats. Go, Jada.
00:13:55
Speaker
ah So look, we started talking about um the things that we believed that beer championships and beer awards stood for. And we kind of felt that if one won something, you weren't getting kind of the commercial returns, which was the thing that we thought was really important. yeah. We, I guess, had been, we'd both been around the traps for a long time, um working in different parts of of the awards scene and just decided that it was something that we wanted to do something about. So, yeah, we started making a, hatching a plan and...
00:14:30
Speaker
Many, many months' work, and here we are. was was But was there like a moment during ah another ah competition, like whether it's scoring it or judging it or where you went, something's not right here, that sort of sparked this whole process? Or has the conversation more gone back years? it's Probably the other way to... Yeah, it's definitely gone back years, having ah sitting across multiple competitions and seeing the feedback surveys and what people are looking for. So there's, you know, everyone wants the feedback and I think that's the number one people that people say they want. But then being on the inside and talking to people, um maybe not finding as much value in that feedback. So, and feedback is incredibly important. That's why I started entering awards right, you know, back in 2005, 2006, because you couldn't get that independent valued feedback. um
00:15:18
Speaker
in these days you can get a lot more out of your peers. There's enough people, there's enough breweries down the road. So it sort of lends now to the feedback's really important still, getting together and celebrating and recognition, but the the part that sort of hasn't really ever translated is selling more beer, turning that recognition and ah and um award into better sales and a better business. And how did it end up being the two of you working on it? were you did you Did one of you mention it? Were you both having similar thoughts or did one of you get chatting to the other one about what some of you were working on?
00:15:53
Speaker
I've been contemplating this for a long time and actually... sort of sitting there in the last year and potentially with the Indies not going, realise there was a little gap to finally do something very different. um But you need a broader team to do that and people who sort of have a shared value and obviously knowing Jane has already sort of aligned with those things, having...
00:16:14
Speaker
you know, also judged at World Beer Cup and in Japan, just makes absolute sense. And then completing the fold, having Cass Cochrane as our as our third founder, who's been back of house and poured the beers. So we're just trying to, you know, we think we've got different avenues covered, which is important, but we can also all overlap and and help each other where we need.
00:16:36
Speaker
And you've mentioned like feedback being important. like How's that changing? what are the if if if someone hasn't spoken to you guys about it yet or been through your website or read the article we a few months ago, what are this are the key things that why you think people will want to enter these awards at you know that makes it stand apart from anything else they might have taken part in?
00:16:55
Speaker
um The feedback, as I said, definitely is still a ah big part of it. So the trouble with feedback in some of the structures that have been used in the past is it's quite um verbal. Like it's it's an interpretation and there's an agreement and it's all done through words. Whereas you had Tina on um recently and she talked about the...
00:17:17
Speaker
sensory profile and that's supporting the analytics. It's sort of far more data points and we've moved back to a more of a sensory profiling so that it's more factual points of observation that are then collected rather than trying to find necessarily the words. You can still describe certain flavours and you can still add a little bit of context but essentially it's a it's a point, it's ah it's a multi-data point overlap. So you're getting a lot more um information back to the brewers. They're getting a lot more detail across a broader spectrum that they can then put together with their gravities and their alcohols and stuff and paint a better picture of where that beer sits. Yeah, and but so we're taking something that is quite, can be quite subjective and trying to make it much more objective so that we are trying to, and also I think a lot of the times when you're judging, you can, I'm not going to say waste, but you use a lot of words describing the beer. So talking about grapefruit hop notes or you know, talking about a particular type of bitter bitterness where you can kind of,
00:18:22
Speaker
you know, user a scale to be able to get across a lot of that information. And then for us, a lot of it is focusing on why a beer did or did not progress, which is sort of part of the way that the that ours are ah sort of put together. So that idea of where it does or does not hit style or quality or those sorts of things is what we're focusing on, less on that actual sort of tasting note piece and more about how it performs for those key kind of criteria.
00:18:52
Speaker
And one of the other, i guess, main differences seems to be your medals and and sort of the finalists, like like where did that part of it, or how does that work and when did that sort of come
The Hildy Award
00:19:02
Speaker
in? Yeah, so we've decided, I guess a lot of it as well was, you know, you you enter and some of the comps have got gold, silver, bronze and, you know, it's a certain sort of scoring level where you get um gold, silver, bronze medals. And I guess it has gotten to the stage where there are so many of those that are given out, it is it's less differentiated. So for us, we were like, how do we, we believe that the recognition should be rare because rarity actually kind of creates that quality connection. So for us, it was about um dropping the number of beers that are recognized. um So for us, we were going through to, it's going to go in through rounds. first beers will get all of this great feedback feedback. Then we'll discuss which beers go up to the following rounds. And then they keep going up until we hit our up to six finalists. And then we give a champion beer. So the idea is that For the categories that we have, we'll have up to six finalists provided there are beers of the kind of quality we believe, and then there'll be a champion chosen from that. And the idea is, yeah, that rarity gives us that more premium kind of nature. It it means that it's just, you know, those are the, those are the, you can guarantee that those six beers that are on the table are going to be just amazing, fantastic examples of those styles.
00:20:30
Speaker
Yeah, adding to that, I think Two Bay's success at Well Beer Cup, and they come back and tell everyone they've got a bronze or urban alley, and the brewery down the road might be saying, yeah, we've got six bronze. you know like They're very different contexts, and I think the gold, silver, bronze has been lost on the consumer. So the the idea actually started to revert to a Well Beer Cup model and have one gold, silver, bronze, but then sitting there and looking at it one day, if you had 90 pale ales in a competition,
00:20:58
Speaker
you get to the final seven, eight on a table, they're they're all fantastic. They all deserve to be shouted about. um Consumers need to know they are all fantastic beers. um Does just giving them a gold and one champion say that?
00:21:11
Speaker
Especially at the same time when you say all the golds and then a champion in the almost the exact same announcement. So that's what really spawned back on us to say, let's talk about them all. Let's give them all a runway to grow and build and promote and then let's sort of declare the winner at the end. Sort of like an Academy Awards, they're all great films. You don't, you know, just because one won doesn't mean the others aren't fantastic and shouldn't be watched.
00:21:36
Speaker
So it's like this year's nominees and I guess going back to you know, the the fact there are so many gold, silver medals in your more traditional beer competitions, hopefully that is a sign that beer quality is getting better. But I guess but the point is you're just really if beer quality is getting better then maybe the the wards need to really focus on the really, really better ones which is a terrible bit of English. But you know what I mean? that's That's the idea is that that you know you're not saying that all these beers that are getting gold, silver and bronze don't deserve them. Just that how do you actually really help for me it always comes back to, i guess, the same thing in any part of business, which is differentiation, right? So if everyone can say that they got a gold, silver or bronze, then how do you differentiate yourself in the market? And so hence, how do you have and impacts on consumer behavior, which is pretty much the thing underlying a lot of what we're trying to do here. So hence that sort of rarity piece means that it is something that's easy to communicate. You know, we want to make it easy for us to be able have those conversations with consumers and hence for that to have flow impact. So yeah, I think it's, for me, it's always about unique selling propositions and and that kind of stuff. So that's why that rarity works for us.
00:22:46
Speaker
And have you got names? if it say Is it going to be nominees and then the winner? Or if you come up with something you know like like a Logie or an Oscar? we Do we have something for this? We haven't let that out of the bag. We have to have a little look at each other and decide if we want to. Yeah, why not? so Yeah, look, it was nominees. we We went to finalists instead because the nominees sounded a bit peer-decided by a bit of a panel, whereas this is earned, much like a finals in the 100 metres at the Olympics. Yeah. finalists and champions and then the award sort of reflecting on I guess the other reasons for that um that we've come and I'll i'll get you go you announced it's your thing go for it
00:23:25
Speaker
So we ended up sort of modeling what what's an Oscar, what's a Golden Globe, who who is the important person like that in our industry? um You know, we considered Chuck, is it the Chuck, do you win the Chuck? um But we've ended up going all the way back to st Hildegard because there's, you know, the more research you do on hold her, the more of amazing human you just sort of discover her to be. um And, you know, if we look even the beers that aren't really heavily hopped, I think we owe this revolution to the hop, sort of what changed us all and maybe drew us all into beer somewhat. So, you know, the fact that she pioneered that that movement and was that pivotal human in in the history of beer, so it'll be the Hildy cool that you'll win. So you'll be the champion ale and you'll win you'll win the Hildy for the champion pale ale. Yeah, it gives you something to base the the trophy on as well, I guess, you know, you've got a figure. Indeed, yeah, we've got that. It doesn't quite look like the Oscar. Maybe a bit more refinement to do on it as well. Now, she lived to the equivalent of like 104 back then in the age expectancy. So Which is bonkers in that ah part in that time, right? that 30 or something like? yeah I think it was like 47 or something. It wasn't that high.
00:24:39
Speaker
Cool. Yeah. That's the model around that. And hopefully that'll build. We won't refer to it as a Hildy necessarily to the consumer because that, until it sort of builds trust and meaning, at the moment it's just a random word. And we want the focus in that consumer chat to be the champion of the beer championships. If you say I want a Hildly, that doesn't really tell you the weight of what we're trying say about how good that beer was. And in terms of how you see it running in year one, like we had some discussions about it a few months ago, is that still the plan? don't know whether it is or not, once submissions close on June 24th, what's the progression from there to champions being named? Yeah, so look, it's a good game, it's a fast game for us in year one. you know, we've got entries open for two weeks, so it'll be open for another week after this goes live. And we will be, beers will be coming in the week after that, and we will be judging the 21st to the 23rd of July. And then we will have our finalists announced midway through August and then awards in mid-October. So, yeah, we're moving at it at a rapid rate to get it all done. But yeah, it's a super exciting time. Well, if anyone can do it's going to be you two and Cass. And it's very deliberate. It's nothing to do with the fact the entry portal took longer to develop than we thought. It's very much so... Well, I mean, the positive we've found in it is entrance an hour. You've got two weeks to enter, and we all know you wait till the last five then it gets extended by a week to get the entrance anyway. And we want... The beers going have to come in the week after, so our expectation right now is there's no changing in batches. This is...
00:26:28
Speaker
core range beer that sits in your fridge right now, that's going to be the beer you enter. yeah um And that's great because that's representative of what you do every day and that's what the consumer sees. Yeah, and I guess the real sort of sharp listeners out there will have gone, hang on, going to announce the nominees several weeks before the champions are announced. And I think that's probably, for me, from a consumer's perspective, would be almost like the biggest change to other beer awards that and any any any I've seen. I mean, you know, the The amount of winners you're announcing is less but kind of similar to World Beer Cup, but they don't do anything like this. So do you want to take us through why you're going to have that sort of extended period from, sorry, not nominees, finalists, through to the champions slash guildies?
00:27:07
Speaker
Yeah, so again, it was that sort of piece of influencing consumer behaviour and allowing the entrants and the finalists to actually take advantage of that. So for us being able to have the finalists announced in August and then eight weeks through to the champions are announced.
00:27:29
Speaker
It's an opportunity over the key selling period as well. So it's very specifically around that, you know, key summer selling period for those finalists to be able to go in and go hey this is the situation this is who we are this is the biz that we've made this is you know what we've been able to win and using that to actually be able to as leverage um and then obviously being able to have the champs as well and there's a bunch of kind of content and stuff that we want to do that if you want to speak to that does it might be yeah we we jade and i we've well we've got a youtube channel set up
00:28:00
Speaker
that at the moment has a beautiful banner and and not much content, but we're we're ready to go from that after judging. And that'll be for us to basically provide content to support that campaign for them in that eight weeks. And even beyond, there's there's plans to do for the champions past that. So we'll talk to them about their beers, we'll drink their beers, and I guess from Jane and I's position who aren't judging, we then want to use, I guess, our history of judging and our experience in that to then...
00:28:30
Speaker
Enjoy those beers and talk to them and give them the content they can pass to the consumers so that there's some weight in the messaging going back to the consumers um Let them organize a event for the for the finalist announcement at their brewery say look we're in come down we're gonna put on the first pot for everyone of the pale ale because it's in in for the champion pale and actually give them some runway to promote and and bring their consumers in on that journey of did they win and So yeah, plenty of time basically.
00:28:58
Speaker
A guaranteed time to promote rather than a an awards, a deadline and then ah a kind of a handover where you've got to figure it out yourself. And once the winners are known, are you sort of, guess, promising or offering do, like you talk about the consuming piece, that making it a sort of a a commercial
Proof of Concept Year
00:29:17
Speaker
win for them. What's your sort of plan once you've got your, is it 15 champions in the first year Yeah, so look, that's part of, I guess, what we're working with you guys on. Way to handball it back to us. Well, you guys ah you know understand your own strengths and recognise that you guys are definitely more consumer-focused than we are, but also um you know we are creating partnerships with retail partners and that kind of stuff as well, so looking at ways that we can help people to actually move beer forward. And, you know, create things with those finalists and the champions. um So that is still very much a work in progress and things that we definitely want to, you know, build more in time. And, you know, we talked a bit before about what does year one look like? Year one for us is proof of concept to ourselves and to, you know, a lot of other people as well. So...
00:30:11
Speaker
Our job is to do this really well and nail it and then being able to show, okay this is the sort of thing that we can do like this and then being able to really build on it from there. So that's a big part of it. We've got the the industry trust, I think, from knowing people for so long and you know decades or almost two decades on some of them. So...
00:30:33
Speaker
What we need to now build is a consumer-facing trust. so you know, the ideas on the table are work with the Australian Open about a bar that's called the Champions Bar, and we'll tell them which four beers are on for the summer. and We know who does that PR, so we can help out there's a't there's so many avenues for us to use that language to the consumer. um We've got to get through this first little step, but then we've actually got a six-month runway ourselves after judging to help, you know, plan more and execute more and actually use some time to start...
00:31:02
Speaker
doing that but ah absolutely to the core of your question um it will be our role to connect them and provide them ins and and link them things that they won't be able to do necessarily on their own use the weight of the competition to to link them to help sell more beer for sure. Well I know we've talked about it being you know hopefully a bit of a nudge to get our blind tastings going as well, to tie into something where it's not just, oh, let's pick a style, and how do you choose which of those beers to actually put up for the blind tasting when there's a million on offer in every style? So you know that's something that's been exciting us, I think. But again, if we can do beer championships, blind tastings, and pick two categories of whatever, you know what the six beers have to be and give people that feeling that they're they're buying into the best. Yeah, it's talking to friends, everyone's gone, oh, you should do the people's votes and all of those things. And
00:31:48
Speaker
Right now the logistics of putting together 15 different six packs, you know, with different sized cans or a bottle or whatever, that's really difficult. but 100% we'll look at a go, or the finalists and go, can we put together a six pack of Victorian beers that are gonna work? And we'll just bring all the relatives around and hand pack them in the shed, you know, whatever's taken in this first year. But we'd love to give people access to that to then decide on their own and watch the live stream. And again, just link them like the brew to the consumer with something that's exciting. Yeah.
00:32:18
Speaker
And you know, with nominations but or entries being open for a number of days, how's it sort of feeling at the moment? Yeah, good. It's happening. We've got people registering and giving feedback on the portal, which has been apparently really easy to use, which is great because Juz has put so much work into that. My friend Claude has actually done quite a lot of work on that. lot people I know have got friend called Claude these days. ah Yeah, no, so good, really um positive feedback so far. And, and um you know, we know we know brewers
00:32:51
Speaker
We know you. And we know that the end of this will be when things start to to get busy. But um yeah, no, it's going well so far. We saw ah some good registrations. You've sort of got to register before you can have a look around. So um yeah, we saw that ticking over on the weekend. And that was really good that people still on the weekend were but having a little ah look at how it all works. so And um you talked about sort of year one. I know there's sort of grander goals longer term. but You know, perhaps I get into too much detail. I know you're still trying to get through the first one. But, you know, if it envisages the dream scenario, know, three, four, five years down the line, where do you where do you hope the beer championships will be other than you'll be sat in gold thrones going, that was a great idea, Jazzy. I doubt we'll get you. will be as the goldest star the gold as we might hit for a while. But, look, we'd love to...
00:33:42
Speaker
just grow out in region, um grow out in format. I mean, we had plans originally to start bringing in draft next year, but I guess if we if we really do commit to going overseas, and that might make it even a lot more difficult for drafts. So maybe we pull back a little bit there. um Yeah, just include, just make it more trust, that people build that trust, that they know that if they see say our stamp on a product, um that they can trust that that is just an exceptional beer. um The stamp itself is sort of all done in like a I guess a standard two-tone color, and the branding's not important to us because we're not, in terms of color, we're not using gold, silver, bronze, so...
00:34:25
Speaker
If it's, say it's you've got a green and yellow can, well then you can put the background green and the bold colour yellow. So that's all designed to not introduce new colours to your plates and stuff on cans.
00:34:38
Speaker
And even in that aspect, we're working with East Coast canning to have some reserved slots because of that timing. So instead of having a four week lead time to suddenly get, or eight week lead time to get more cans, They're going to reserve a little block sort of a week after the ah finalists are announced and let people engage and subtly jump on and get some more cans really quickly so they they can activate that beer you know and get more out within three weeks. So part of, I guess, what happens with beer, right? We see people who win wine comps, they chuck a sticker on and everyone's like, oh, look at all these. Look at all these metals, um but we don't see it in beer. And I think, you know, part of that was because it used to be this whole idea of having to get, you know, your minimum can runs were so large, but we don't see that these days. So what Jaz is talking about is this idea of how do we actually activate it on the packaging? Like, how do we actually incorporate that? so
00:35:25
Speaker
So being able to use our this stamp and being able to put it onto packaging and having that ready to rock and roll and having it in something where you don't need to add on extra plates or extra colours or whatever else is something that I guess is a differentiator as well, something that's a little bit different. And then building that trust with consumers so that they see that and start to associate that with quality and good beer.
00:35:48
Speaker
And can't for can art, for example, people don't necessarily want something that sits out there and draws attention out of the the can or detracts from it. So we're not saying it has to be on the front or the side or the whatever. It's literally like this is yours to use how you you want to use it. If you think it's going to fit really well off to the side of your logo at that size, then then go for it.
00:36:10
Speaker
And are you going to say can use it for one year or is it going to be like that cheese you pick up from a regional from Audrey that says best brie 2016 something like that? Is there going to be like you've got 12 months to make the most of this, guys? Or the best fish and chip shop in in the country town. Best vanilla slice, I saw one in the last town. Yeah, there's got one fish and chip shop and they still didn't win last year. Yeah. No, it is dated. That stamp that they'll get will be, you know, finalist 2026.
00:36:36
Speaker
And then, yeah, so hopefully ah the consumer can spot spot that and decide ah not to not to embezzle, not to indulge. Hopefully they know what year they're living in. Yeah. have the time I don't. And what about the you know the grand final night or the end of it all? How how does that sort of look when once the championships are announced or the champions? It's probably the thing we know least about at this point in time. you know when it's going to be. There you go. We've got that one. um So we'll be hosting it the night before the buses leave for Grainstock. So the idea of really tying in with... what Stu has been building and being able to do something where it gives people the opportunity to have professional development on top of a an award. So thinking about, you know, people paying for tickets and going, OK, well, if I justify this, I can say I'm going to go to the awards and then I'm going to have this professional development at Grainstock. So tying the two in together just seems to to make a lot of sense. So which is October the 14th.
00:37:37
Speaker
Yeah, so we we like all the other people in this industry, so you don't necessarily, we don't want to head head to head and compete for the reason people would come to Melbourne. So it just made sense. We were both at Grainstock in the student's inaugural year, as well yourselves. So it um makes sense for us to try and help bring people to Melbourne. So if you're in WA, Hopefully that helps get to both events. you know You're not just asking your boss to come over for drinks at one night in the city to see if you won. Or trying to get to the Riverina and back from WA. yeah and We've apologised, well we will apologise to the bus drivers the morning after, but i'm pretty excited for us to to kick it all off. It's AKA Beer Deluxe at the the old Good Beer Week. Because um the team up at Sydney Craft Beer Week as well will be the week after. kicking off the Sunday after grain stock as well. So it really has created sort of an industry, then a professional development, industry night, professional development, and then jumping into the consumer-facing event that is Sydney Craft Beer Week. Yeah, cool.
00:38:44
Speaker
Wonderful. Well, let's take a quick break. Cheers. Cheers.
00:38:50
Speaker
Entries are flooding in for the inaugural Beer Championships, a brand new beer competition built by brewers for brewers, designed to recognise exceptional beer and importantly, turn brewing excellence into real commercial momentum.
00:39:02
Speaker
Here's competition organiser Jane Lewis on how that works. We wanted to create a competition that goes beyond the glory on the awards night and actually helps drive sales and influence consumer behaviour. If you're announced as a category finalist, you've got eight weeks before the champion is announced.
00:39:18
Speaker
That's time to ramp up production, create retail promotions and mix packs, reach out to media, plan parties in your venues and plan social campaigns. It's a chance to turn hard earned recognition into well-deserved sales.
00:39:31
Speaker
So if you want part of a competition that can drive real sales, be part of the Beer Championships. Enter now at thebearchampionships.com.
00:39:41
Speaker
Welcome back, Jay and Justin. You both spend a lot of time with a lot of people in the beer industry. I think we're kind of maybe almost past talking about troubled years and into maybe troubled decade or something at this point now in 2026.
Industry Resilience and Adaptation
00:39:56
Speaker
How do you feel things are out out there?
00:39:59
Speaker
I feel like there's a bit of a change in sentiment. I do feel like there are some kind of green shoots or maybe it's just that everyone's gotten accustomed to it and, you know, feels like giving it energy just isn't really helping them anymore. So, um you know, there's no, the conditions are all exactly the same. Like, you know, all all of the challenges that exist, we know that they they exist. And I feel like people are just kind of, starting to just get on with it and work out how they exist within that as opposed to potentially giving it um as much energy. So i ah I feel like there's green shoots and people are just feeling a bit better about it all.
00:40:40
Speaker
and yeah And you're sort of doing a lot more work, I guess, on the people and the well-being side of things. Like what sort of, um I guess, concerns or questions are people coming to you with that you're you know working with throughout the industry, whether you know whether it's on the brewing side or elsewhere in yeah beer or
Navigating Industry Challenges
00:40:56
Speaker
hospice? Yeah.
00:40:57
Speaker
Uh, overwhelm, um, you know, complexity in everything that they've been doing and and considerations about, um, where people's energy is going and a lot of sort of reactivity as well, as opposed to sort of people being proactive. So, Um, I see a lot of people at probably crossroads, um, whether that be, um, within their careers or within business. Um, but yeah, people going, i just, I don't know what the next steps are. I'm not sure, you know, where to go from here. Um, so that's probably the time when I see people the most.
00:41:35
Speaker
and Justin, you're often working with, well, for those who don't know, you do a lot of consultancy for breweries in the early stages, so you've probably seen people at quite a different time in the business. Does it feel like people are starting and you know scaling down to what they were planned, or you're talking people who still want to get into the industry as well?
00:41:54
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I think there there are green shoots, to echo what Jane was saying, and I think in the aspect of the existing operators, they've... adjusted now, that's what's changed. I think they've seen the new way to work and they've pulled in a little bit. I think there's less people trying to sell beer, you know, on the other side of the Nullarbor to where they live. um So everyone's just readapted their model a little bit and it seems to be working a lot better. So the the breweries that have gone through that hard time now know better than ever the good parts of their business and they're concentrating on those, not necessarily trying to grow. But around the the startups and the people who sort of reach out to us either through Bespoke or through through consulting, they're definitely got a different model now. The the ones we're doing are the the brew pubs, the country towns, and it's the model we still know exists. They're staying under the excise cap. They've got a beautiful place.
00:42:49
Speaker
They want to just make some beers. They're going to sell them drafts. they might package later. And that model is still highly lucrative at you know at the end of the day. If you live in the town and you've only got those costs to start up, and unfortunately with secondhand equipment even, um you know you can get running and and it's a good business model.
00:43:10
Speaker
So there is excitement still at that end of the of the thing too. And I think some of the people who have felt the overwhelm, people who are sort of in the bigger breweries and caught, you know in the middle of either running or maybe running them, but also sort of the few people under that who've had a lot of experience, they're the the people ready to do that move now because they've sort of had enough of all that pressure at that end. They can't see that business growing and putting a second brewery in and expanding. So they're the people who are sort of using that experience to do something different, but still want to, you know, still love beer and want to stay in it.
00:43:45
Speaker
And I guess I've had conversations in this around that sort of um successful smaller model with a number of people over the years. It feels to me that, you know, we're well beyond that sort of phase where beer was growing on the strength of just excitement around liquids, you know, and that sort of real buzz there. But it feels that, you know, as long as enough for those smaller...
00:44:05
Speaker
models whether they're in a suburban region or whether they're in a small town if they can take off then surely that becomes a sort of ah sort of more consistent sort of sustainable growth for the industry like if if you can win over a town or enough people in a town by being local and being a touch point that people can go to like it feels to me that yes it's going to be slower but hopefully it's more um yeah resistant exactly it's essentially a hospitality play the businesses that have survived do great hospitality because that's what people will still always respect. Community, whatever, any of those words you use to associate with that experience, to go somewhere and pay money for for a beverage or for food or whatever, that's just good hospitality. And that will grow, that will continue to grow. Everyone still enjoys that. And whether it's, no matter what, a restaurant or a bar or and all of that, that's more important than ever to to put yourself, you know, above the pile of all the competition. I guess sticking with you, Justin, what about like, you know, breweries that have have been in it for a while, you seeing them order to different equipment or change? Like, I feel like a lot of breweries moving into the distilling space. We're seeing a lot of movements around there. It's mostly around efficiency stuff. So a lot of little yeast prop systems, people trying to customise a new doser to get more out of there their hop oils or something, or to put them in in in line and in stream. So all the sort of, you know,
00:45:30
Speaker
half a million to two million liter breweries, that's the sort of stuff they're really looking at now. And it's just improving, yeah, efficiency bases and and those kind of things. Because not only does that improve the efficiency of of that process or that oil, but it might actually get them more out of the tanks. if they can come through a different new filter skid or use a yeast prop and they don't have that lag on dry yeast, then they've effectively unlocked another half a day on all their fermenters, which means they've actually increased their capacity. But not buying new tanks, unfortunately. you know the The easiest part of my job is when someone rings up and says, you know that tank we bought the other day? Can I just get three more of those?
00:46:07
Speaker
Yeah, look, it's been a dry five years for those kind of things. um And they do happen. There's definitely people growing as well. But again, I think they're growing on the back of good hospitality. They're venues who have had a great hospitality venture and they've literally run it. They need to sell more beer just for themselves. It's not that they're they're suddenly selling you know pallets of cans to one of the commercial retailers. It's that they're just their hospitality business is growing, so they need some more tanks to keep it growing.
00:46:32
Speaker
And are some of the people that you're working with in the early stages, are they, they're not essentially buying more tanks down the line yet, are they sort of designing their space in the hope that somewhere down the line things are, you know, the the corner is going to turn and they are, you know, they're going to need more yeah e tanks. Yeah, every brewery I've designed, you know, we've bespoke for the last five years has, this is where your second row we plan from the start. Can the bigger tanks, can the doubles come in? Will they get through that door when those tanks are in? um And yeah, a lot of those are the ones the phone hasn't picked up or or fired those things off. But um now, if you were doing it, I think...
00:47:13
Speaker
Maybe a little bit less so. I think there's probably more examples I've had lately where you've said, this is where your your next tank will go. We could bring one more in. And the person's actually gone, let's just get it now instead of trying to scale it because it's one more tank. There was space in the container. So I think that whole, we're going to do this and then we're going grow to this and that. Yeah, it's less you know attractive at the end of the day or less, it makes less business sense. Just start with what you know is gonna work and then do it. And if you do, if you are fortunate enough that it's crazy and you need to do things, well, maybe you will have to replace the chiller and buy a big one or something like that. Yeah.
00:47:50
Speaker
You're more likely to want to expand your hospitality footprint probably though. Save the space for the kitchen to get but bigger and and more efficient. 100%. There's definitely people who have pulled tanks out to put another row of tables in.
00:48:02
Speaker
Yeah. Fair enough. Unfortunately. Again, yeah. And what about yourself, Jay? You've been in industry in various roles for quite some time now.
Future of Sustainable Practices
00:48:11
Speaker
Like, If you, you know, finger in the air or like had your crystal ball or whatever it was and, you know, what's what's your take on how things are going to develop over over the next few years?
00:48:22
Speaker
I think we've still got, you know, all of the headwinds are still going to be there. So, you know, we're not going to magically get any sort of changes in terms of, you know, excise rebates or whatever else, like they all exist. So um I really think it's about smart business. I do think it's around that um pulling back piece, working out what I call it right sizing in the work that I do is, which is deciding Okay, what bits actually work for you as a business? What bits are, um you know, weighing you down? What bits are more complex? Where can you strip out um complexity? All that sort of stuff to bring you back to the part that is sustainable and profitable. um So I think the people that survive are going to be those people who are, you know, making those decisions and going, okay, so... Maybe we don't need to be in this particular channel or maybe we don't need to be looking at this. We need hospitality and we need whatever else or maybe these particular things. We're just going to own X area, which, you know, for a long time has been ah ah a thing that does work. um And so...
00:49:25
Speaker
you know, being able to lock down your specific part of the world, I think is is is going to be what we see that whole, you know, third place, the place that you go outside of your home and outside of work and the place where you have all your celebrations and it's, you know, becomes that that hub. um I do think we're going to see those sorts of things continue to grow. um And, oh, you know, beer will always make its way through. so It's resilient like that. um And, you know, we're still going to get people joining. It's people who are always loving it. And, you know, I think Spirits is still growing. It'll be interesting to see the trajectory of of that, whether or not we see some sort of similar kind of fallout in a couple of years' time. Yeah.
00:50:08
Speaker
But, yeah, I think people making more active choices about what it is that their businesses are as opposed to just deciding that they're just going to build a brewery and not really understanding what that looks like and, and yeah, making more conscious decisions about how that plays out. And you talk about those businesses or the brewing brewing companies offering hospos as a core part of their offering. Is there...
00:50:30
Speaker
Are you seeing a particular type of hospitality that's working really well or is it... Good. good Good hospitality. No, it can be the brew pub with a food truck. It can be, you know, the amazing restaurant, you know, the full chefs and kitchens and pizza ovens and stuff. So, it's again, it's just hospitality isn't food or what it is. Hospitality is feeling like...
00:50:52
Speaker
home or no no new market is feeling welcome yeah so it would look very different in brunswick to it would in you know a country town so yeah i mean there's country towns that i go through and it's like there's two pubs that are empty in one brewery that's pumping and you kind of go okay these people have understood what they're doing here and it's mostly because... It's called line cleaning. I was going to say no pokies. yeah somewhere Somewhere a geek can be. It's probably a top five list that's pretty easy to write down of why that's happening here.
00:51:20
Speaker
So, yeah, all all types. It's good hospital. There's contract brewers, there's contract brands that are still doing well. It's not only hospitality, but it's ah it's an aggressive game without that touchpoint to connect with the consumer and to make them...
00:51:36
Speaker
actually sort of see and feel your product then you know it's it's a tough game you're playing small margins yeah against straight up district a lot of hard these days a lot of competitors who you know you can't see and in terms of I guess on the specifically brewing side of things what sort of styles you see people make wanting to make the most or coming to you for you know guidance on um I actually had an email this morning about someone who wants to really improve their basic Aussie lager. Okay. you know so
00:52:07
Speaker
Which I guess fits into that thing of going, we want to bring in the wider community as opposed to chasing people who want you know X number of IBUs in their IPA. the The days of, oh, that's just a bad lager and I'm not going to make anything like that. That's not true. I mean, you've seen all the, even the big craft guys actually come out and make Mexican lagers and All sorts of very light, easy to drink styles as craft guys using low carb enzymes and things.
00:52:38
Speaker
Back when we started, if you put kettle findings in, you weren't crafter. Adjuncts are bad and preservatives and all of that. So now, you know, all of that's been broken down. It's just good beer. And I think the and industry i think that's great for the industry because there's places for great Aussie lagers, you know.
00:52:56
Speaker
You camp a lot, you go to music festivals, you got to I'm sure you've pulled a one drop double IPA or some crazy fruity smoothie out in the middle of a music festival, but I'm sure the people around you were pulling out some Aussie lagers. So um yeah, there's a place for absolutely every beer out there and every style. So i think brewers, it's also a beer you can make a lot cheaper, let's be honest. it's It's less malt in some of those beers, less hops. um they're They're a lot harder to make, and so...
00:53:26
Speaker
um There's some challenges there for people. They're a harder beer to really improve and nail down. But, yeah. And we'll find out which the best ones are in a few months' time. Aussie Lager, yeah, it's a good segue. He's one of our champion categories. umh um Pretty essential part of Australia. And seeing we've got that Australian focus now, we thought that thoroughly deserved its own its own place.
00:53:52
Speaker
Absolutely. We've tried to, I guess, in terms of those categories, we've looked at a range of things. We've looked at other beer comps of what people are actually entering. We've done analysis on what's in the fridges at the big big um retailers. We've just asked our friends, you know, Claude and gemin Gemma and I and Siri and all of those to tell us what's out there and what's being made. So...
00:54:16
Speaker
We're gonna let a few people down, there's gonna be some core range beers of people that they can't enter, but we've really, we've had to sort of strip it back and try and make it the absolute brush. And we think we've covered at least 95% of what beer is being made out there in terms of the categories that we have that are consumer facing. So from a specialist point of view as well, we have ah a non-alc, a gluten free.
00:54:38
Speaker
and a reduced out, so three categories that we know people specifically look for, you know, and they'll be a lot smaller. there's There's less beers in those categories, but it's still important because if a consumer decides that's what they're looking for, that they're sort of held within that subset. So that's what's driving those decisions as well. And one thing i wanted to clarify as well, and now we're back on the beer championships, I would say... Wrapped it up so beautifully there.
00:55:05
Speaker
Is it core is it um only core range beers you're looking for submissions or can people put anything in they like? People can put anything in. um It is packaged beer only. And if you can find a house with to live in, so if you've got ah if you can find a style where that beer lives, then you're welcome to enter it. So, yeah, but we have stripped out a bunch of categories here. There's no specialty beer category that could have everything, know, 70 different styles of beer in it, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, we're focusing on the main things. We're focusing on, there's, you know, four categories of lagers, there's four categories of pale ales, there's IPAs, there's some reds and darks and reds and browns and darks. And... But yes, so there isn't a, this isn't the kind of comp where everything has a place. There will be things, there will be beers that there is no room to be able to put them in this particular competition. So, um but yes, if you make it and you put it into ah a package, then we're willing to take it on provided you can find a house. I'm assuming if it becomes, you know, if it wins a Hildy, you're going to want to keep brewing it. Yeah, we're hoping that we are collecting that data as well to sort of show us what
00:56:11
Speaker
people are doing but because it's the main styles our our hope is that it's really your core range of beers um we want to try and avoid people sort of entering to so deliberately targeting I guess the way the competition is structured so yeah hopefully you if you become a finalist your seasonal beer is going to become relatively core pretty quickly we would hope yeah Wonderful. Well, Jen and Justin, thank so much for joining us. No, thanks so much for having us. It was a pleasure. Cheers. Cheers.
00:56:45
Speaker
The Crafty Pint podcast is produced and edited by Matt Hoffman. You can get all your beer-related news and reviews on the Crafty Pint website, craftypint.com, and can stay up to date on future podcast episodes via our socials.
00:56:59
Speaker
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00:57:15
Speaker
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