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On A Water Break with Julie Davila
103 Plays3 days ago
In this special bonus episode, Stephen McCarrick and Anne Turner sit down with Julie Davila, renowned percussion educator, composer, adjudicator, and newly appointed Judge Administrator for Drum Corps International (DCI). Julie shares her remarkable journey through the marching arts, from her early passion for percussion and transformative years at the University of North Texas to her extensive adjudicating career in both DCI and WGI.
✨ Highlights from this Episode:
- Julie's "32-Count Life Story": From her roots as a young drummer and water sports enthusiast to becoming a respected leader and advocate for women in percussion.
- Deep Dive into Arranging and Composition: Julie discusses her powerful piece, "Faith and Fortitude," inspired by personal experiences and resilience through her daughter’s medical challenges.
- Judging Insights: Julie provides an insider look at what defines a successful front ensemble, balancing innovation with tradition, and her experience across multiple judging captions.
- New Role at DCI: Julie shares her excitement about becoming the Judge Administrator for DCI, her goals for supporting diversity in adjudication, and nurturing future talent.
- "Water We Doing?": Julie, Stephen, and Anne address the pitfalls of comparing scores across competitions and advocate for a stronger musical foundation in young ensembles.
- "Gush and Go": Celebrating recent accomplishments, exciting future plans, and the continuous growth of women leaders in the marching arts.
🔗 Featured Organizations & Links:
- Drum Corps International: https://www.dci.org
- WGI: https://www.wgi.org
- University of North Texas Percussion: https://percussion.music.unt.edu
- Roloff Productions: https://www.roloff.com
🌟 Connect with Julie Davila:
- Instagram: @sisterjules9397
- Facebook: Julie Sutton Davila
📲 Stay Connected:
- Follow "On A Water Break" on Social Media: @onawaterbreak
- Questions or episode suggestions? Email us at onawaterbreakpodcast@gmail.com
🎧 Don't forget to subscribe, review, and share! Stay tuned to "On A Water Break" for more insightful conversations, innovative ideas, and exclusive content from the marching arts community!
#MarchingArts #DrumCorps #DCI #WGI #Percussion #JulieDavila #MusicEducation #BandLife #Colorguard #IndoorPercussion #Podcast #OnAWaterBreak
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Transcript
Introduction to the Bonus Episode
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everyone, and welcome to an On a Water Break bonus episode. I'm Steven, and this is the bonus water break where we sit down with one guest and dive deep into their life and their experience in the marching arts.
Interview with Julie Davila Begins
00:00:11
Speaker
This time we go On a Water Break with Julie Davila.
00:00:16
Speaker
Head off the mat and go. Welcome to On a Water Break. The podcast where we talk everything marching arts.
00:00:28
Speaker
Everyone, bring it in. It's time for water break.
00:00:33
Speaker
right everyone welcome to the on water break bonus episode and before we go see who's on the sidelines this week please subscribe hit the notifications on your favorite listening app write us review or share it with a friend and if you've got a good question a good topic you think we should talk about you can email us at on awaterbreak podcast at gmail dot com or you can find us on social media and dm us if you want to be on the show ah We've even got a form now. You could fill it out if you want to be a guest. We love having people on the podcast. So check it out at the link in the bio on our social media page at On A Water Break.
Anne Turner's Participation
00:01:08
Speaker
And let's see who is joining me on the sidelines this week. We have Anne Turner. hi everyone. It's nice to be back. of the show If you haven't listened to a podcast with Anne before, we've got a a performer spotlight, I think from, was that 2023 2022? Yeah.
00:01:26
Speaker
Probably 2023, right? Yeah, probably 23, but all the years, they're kind of the same at this point. Starting to get back there a little bit. We're no longer recent age outs, but Anne and I marched together at Crown in 2019, and happy to have her back on the call today here.
Julie's Early Life and Career
00:01:42
Speaker
And we've kept our guests on the bleachers for long enough, but now come on down to the sidelines and let's welcome Julie Davila to our call. Julie, thank you for hopping on.
00:01:54
Speaker
Yeah, we're super happy to have you on the call here joining us today. Really awesome to get the chance to speak with you. I've been judged by you so many times in so many of my drum lines. it's It's really an honor to have you on the call.
00:02:06
Speaker
Thanks for having me. I'm always a little nervous when somebody says that. though It sounds like mean. There's like a bad tone to it, but it's really like, I don't mean it with any negative connotation. It's super an honor to have you on here.
00:02:20
Speaker
So we always kick off the the calls with my favorite part of the show, the 32 count life story. And in that segment, we ask our guests to tell us their story in 32 counts, everything from the beginning of your marching career, all the way to what you ate for breakfast this morning, you'll get eaten in off the Met.
00:02:39
Speaker
You ready to give it a shot? I'm ready give it a shot. All right, here you go. I gotta get my sticks. Hold on, hold on. I got gotta out. gotta get sticks out here. All right, I'm ready. What tempo are we at?
00:02:49
Speaker
I gotta know how fast I gotta go. 60 BPM. What is it? It's 60
Professional Accomplishments and WGI Hall of Fame
00:02:54
Speaker
BPM. Okay, cool. six example Okay, so just real quick, I was born a Pisces. That means I love to be in and around in near water. I was water skiing as seven-year-old, big time, along with my drumming, kind of a jock, played basketball, ran track, and all that kind of stuff.
00:03:12
Speaker
I was born a Hoosier, so big Bobby Knight fan, and basketball is in my blood. I had two older brothers, so if I wanted to play, i had to be scrappy. High school, I went to Blue Springs, March of the Macy's Parade, of the Rose Bowl Parade. I went to college in Missouri for two years, transferred to UNT, filming green.
00:03:29
Speaker
Changed my life, definitely. Heavily involved in drumline. I played in a steel band. Am I done? 32 counts. That 32 goes quick, but I want you to keep going. Okay. Real quick. So I played in a professional steel band in Dallas for three, four years, became a member of PAS in 95, one of the PAS keyboard individuals with Mirimba spiritual. And a couple years later, I've,
00:03:54
Speaker
I recently served a PIS past president. I feel like i now I still need to talk fast, but I guess I don't. if You don't have to now. I am currently now immediate past president.
00:04:05
Speaker
I find myself, I'm a teacher, counselor, mother, daughter, sister, wife, niece, aunt, and friend. um I have 25 years plus, closer to 30, in the marching arts with WGI, DCI, DCI.
00:04:19
Speaker
um was inducted into the WGI Hall of Fame in 2014. earned the privilege of traveling the world with ah two of my dearest friends in the Keisha Percussion Trio. And most importantly, I feel like I still have a great spirit for pursuing life, learning experiences, and to stay at it, you know, as long as I can.
00:04:37
Speaker
So still loving life, excited to be here. And that's kind of my my life in a 64 count.
00:04:46
Speaker
Well, some people need eight bars. Some people need a lot more than just 32 counts. And I definitely had a feeling coming into the call that you would be one of those guests. That's awesome.
00:04:57
Speaker
So as a kid, you definitely had lots of interests. I also grew up by the water. So I know what it's like to love having an ocean, a pool, something like that nearby.
00:05:09
Speaker
But was there a defining moment where you knew, okay, I really like doing all of these other things, but the marching arts or percussion really has this grip on me and I need to follow it.
00:05:19
Speaker
So I'm not sure if you can recall a moment from when you were younger that you knew that percussion was something that you wanted to pursue. Yeah, that's a great question, Anne. Thanks. I think, to to be quite honest, i think i I don't think there's a singular defining moment. I think I was kind of destined, to be honest. i just ah When I was younger, before I ever got into formal percussion lessons, I would listen to the radio. And I don't know why my family had a tambourine.
00:05:47
Speaker
But we had a tambourine and I tried to kind of build the drum set around it. I tried to make a pedal to hit the head of the tambourine to be a kick drum and then use you know household things. And I don't even know what age I was. I was elementary school in that for sure. So I was always drawn heavily to percussion, to music.
00:06:08
Speaker
think, honestly, right away, middle school, into high school, i was i just always knew that's
Impact of North Texas on Julie's Career
00:06:16
Speaker
where I didn't really have. I had a lot of other interests, like in athletics and things like that, but I knew where my my streamlined focus was going to be in music.
00:06:25
Speaker
Was there anything along the way, I always feel like it was my first WGI competitive drumline in 2014 in high school where like a switch flipped. And then I knew like I was on a different road when it came to percussion.
00:06:40
Speaker
Was there any moment in your career or your time as a student where you felt the same way? Yeah, I, um again, I feel like it really started at a young age. I, um when I was in middle school,
00:06:52
Speaker
I was asked to play drum set in like the show choir and the jazz band and all that kind of stuff. And I didn't have a drum set. So I told my teachers, i was like, give me the weekend and I'll have a drum set on Monday.
00:07:04
Speaker
And, um, so I did, my parents bought me a blue Vista light Ludwig drum set. And on Monday I had a drum set. Um, And I just honestly had great teachers. I had really motivating good people, good teachers. And that was probably pivotal.
00:07:19
Speaker
I really started out mostly on drum set my first like three or four years. Certainly North Texas was a huge turning point for me. I used to go to a bunch of Maynard Ferguson concerts in middle school and high school.
00:07:33
Speaker
And ah when he would introduce the band, everybody was from North Texas. And I was like, huh, what's this North Texas thing they speak of? And, and so that was always kind of what I thought would be a reach.
00:07:47
Speaker
Maybe would it be possible? You know, question mark, not really sure, but fortunately I had a really good teacher in my sophomore year at a, in college at a school Missouri, who was really encouraging me to kind of reach a little further.
00:08:01
Speaker
And so that, that was a pivotal moment because everything that came out of North Texas was just amazing. You know, the drumline experience, Just being around. I mean, everybody at that time was kind of in Phantom, mostly. um That was like the John Wooten, Lalo, my husband was teaching, Marty Hurley, you know, those years.
00:08:19
Speaker
So drum corps was a big deal. The drum line there was competing at PASIC and winning a lot of like what they call national, PAS national championships. um All the things, I fell in love with steel band. So just...
00:08:33
Speaker
Yeah, everything about North Texas was was certainly pivotal. And I had really great teachers and a community. you know Everybody feels like their decade or their time at a school like that is like, oh, it had to be the best.
00:08:45
Speaker
It was the best. That was the best. But it was the best is what I'm hearing. What's that? But it was the best is what I'm hearing. It was pretty strong. Yeah, it was ah it was a pretty magical time with just the people, not only the program, but the people we got to be around.
Judging Skills and Experiences
00:08:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:00
Speaker
Could you tell us a little bit more about what what it is at UNT, that area, or specifically like the education you received there that you think sets it apart from, you know, either other parts of the country or maybe other music schools?
00:09:14
Speaker
Yeah, well, I mean, i think I think there's a lot of great music schools now for sure. I think it was North Texas, amongst a handful of other really, really strong percussion programs, was still a part of a small group of like phenomenal programs.
00:09:31
Speaker
I think, you know, our main teacher there was Dr. Robert Chitroma and his ah work ethic and his like, wouldn't say discipline, but like the expectation, that's the word I'm looking for. His expectation but was so high and everything that we did that he held us to such a high standard. And it was kind of a sink or swim situation. I mean, I knew a lot of students that came in and and didn't hang.
00:09:56
Speaker
And it wasn't necessarily a talent-based thing. was somewhat of a mindset too. You know, he kind of really helped us, you know, in a creative way, kind of be strong, you know, like to persevere and to have a lot of grit, um to be professional, be
Roll-Off Productions and Music Publishing
00:10:16
Speaker
accountable.
00:10:16
Speaker
So the expectation was high. And I feel like, you know, just surrounded by great people. I mean, that some of the graduate assistants and artists, And even my undergrad colleagues at the time were just just remarkable, remarkable players. So it was kind of like that rising tide raises all boats.
00:10:34
Speaker
You know, just that environment was ah was just, yeah, just remarkable. Yeah. it sounds like your time at UNT definitely gave you a lot of percussion knowledge, but also maybe life skills.
00:10:48
Speaker
Is there anything specific at UNT that you've sort of carried and with you through your career that maybe influenced your judging or your teaching style? Yeah. I mean, a lot of things I think from a mechanics of percussion, I think, you know, i played in the drumline, played snare line, I was in the snare line, I played in the front ensembles, front ensemble caption or section leader.
00:11:12
Speaker
played in the steel bands, you know, took advantage of everything world percussion that I could do. So I think I played a lot of drum set. That was kind of my main instrument to start with. So I think just having that versatility of experiences now, when I went into adjudicating, i think really helped me. I could, I felt like I could, i had something to offer both in the front ensemble and the battery. And, uh,
00:11:38
Speaker
life experiences, you know, like I was in both of those sections. So I think that's been an advantage for me. And then I would also say, you know, Roll-Off Productions publishing company started back in the early nineties when I moved to Nashville and they were and two really good friends, Chris Brooks, Chris Kroc. Well, they reached out to a handful of us in the Nashville area.
00:12:01
Speaker
Chris Kroc was a UNT. He went to UNT for a few years. And so we kind of got together on that end, just as kind of alumni. And when he started the publishing company, he asked my husband and I to start writing, to be contributing writers, and he would publish our thing. So like, out of that came my tenor book.
00:12:23
Speaker
And oh um in the beginning, a lot of marching percussion features. And so i think, you know, just it's interesting that that UNT, like family tree is always is always kind of like something that is a conduit connects people.
Inspiration Behind 'Faith and Fortitude'
00:12:39
Speaker
And um so those are, I was really, really fortunate to kind of just be in the right place at the right time for that as well. Cause that there was no one else publishing percussion music at that time, really.
00:12:49
Speaker
Interesting. Well, that does kind of lead me towards another thing I wanted to to speak to you about. i was listening to your piece, Faith and Fortitude, which ah I think has been shared a lot recently.
00:12:59
Speaker
Would you be able to let us ah know a little bit about the inspiration behind that composition and maybe how it connects more to you personally? Sure. that That's a great question. I hope I can get through it. um I'll try to make it kind of quick, but yeah, that piece is kind of five five-year process probably. I started it.
00:13:19
Speaker
um I hadn't really written any like big percussion orchestra type piece before, and I want to kind of take a stab at that. So I kind of started, and i was dabbling in some ideas. I had it probably about 40, 45, 50% forty five fifty percent um I wouldn't say done, but I had about 45, 50% of material.
00:13:38
Speaker
And then our youngest daughter got really sick and went through a pretty life ah challenging for all of us health scare where she was in, it it was really like a two year period, but I mean, it it was really serious.
00:13:53
Speaker
And so, and she was living in LA at the time. So ah I was out there, i was out there for two full years, but then when she got sick, I i was just out there a lot. um And in one of her recovery seasons, which were always about three months, she had two two situations where she had three months of recovery.
00:14:15
Speaker
You know, we she really just couldn't hardly do anything, couldn't leave the apartment. So in our down, besides doing puzzles and watching movies, I kind of kept opening up this piece, you know, and kind of playing around with it. And I'd add a little bit more. And then I'm really bad at naming things.
00:14:30
Speaker
So when I was kind of getting close, you know about halfway through the piece, I felt like this experience is was was kind of resonating with me um going through this life journey with her.
00:14:42
Speaker
And I noticed that I started the piece with a five note five note sequence. And I just kind of played on everything five. Five note sequence, five four time, five eight time, five lits.
00:14:53
Speaker
And I just kind of like that was one of the inspirations. And when was starting to think about naming the piece, I thought about ah the word faith and how much fortitude that Marissa, our daughter, had to have to to to tackle this really in her very early 20s, this significant life challenge.
00:15:11
Speaker
And realized that faith had five letters. So then I decided that that that title just kind of faith and fortitude came to me. And there's some a middle section that's very drummy, very angsty, you know, and that's kind of how we felt at times in our journey.
00:15:29
Speaker
And as I got to the end of the piece, I decided that the the title of the piece kind of inspired the end of the piece because what I did is I took those five notes and I reversed them.
00:15:41
Speaker
And so in the program notes, it'll say like with faith and fortitude, you can turn anything around. So I turned those notes around and that's kind of how I came to kind of the over the arch to that whole experience.
00:15:55
Speaker
Wow. that That is an amazing story. Um, I'm very happy to hear. at least I'm presuming that at the other end of the medical journey here, she she is doing better. Yeah, she's doing she's doing really well. So it's so so meaningful to tie that into like such a grand composition that's like so personal to you and your life. Yeah.
00:16:18
Speaker
Wow. Well, that's great. We're going to get a couple reps here and get a quick word from our sponsors. And we'll come back and we'll ask some more questions before we get into our other bits.
00:16:37
Speaker
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00:17:39
Speaker
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00:17:57
Speaker
And we're back. Thanks for joining us back on the sidelines after a good rep out there.
Successful Front Ensembles: Technicality vs Musicality
00:18:02
Speaker
Grab the water bottles and let's get back into it here with Julie Davila. And Anne, I believe you had the next question for us, right?
00:18:10
Speaker
Yeah, so right before the break, we got to talk to you a little bit about some of your arranging experience, more of the keyboard instruments. so I wanted to sort of tie that in to our DCI front ensembles.
00:18:23
Speaker
I was wondering what qualities do you find in consistently high achieving front ensembles? When is it too many notes? And when makes an orchestration sound minimal but purposeful?
00:18:35
Speaker
Wow, yeah, I think I heard most of the question. Are you asking basically kind of like what makes, well, I'll just go off. Okay. So as a, I think this is, this goes for any any marching ensemble like WGI, DCI, there's there's a lot of similarities in terms of the front ensemble writing and orchestration and the difference in DCI, of course you have the the brass as well to consider.
00:19:02
Speaker
But ah what I've noticed, and it's funny cause I just judged this weekend on the East coast, a big power regional. And what I try to ah communicate is particularly in, I guess this isn't so much DCI, but in younger groups, like just ah sometimes less is more in terms of, you know, what, what can be, if, if there's a primary line or a melody that needs to be present. It's just like making sure there's enough number of players on that part to that. So it can be heard that everything else is balanced around it. It's just making it primary.
00:19:39
Speaker
and So I think sometimes what I see WGI, I would say more than DCI is sometimes younger arrangers writing so many layers, so many parts that there's just like, not one thing is clear, you know, and definitely then what, you know, we have to ask the question, what is primary in this moment?
00:19:59
Speaker
and d c And DC and DCI, there were just just so many good arrangers and, you know, that are so good at that. I think, uh, groups that, I mean, so many of these groups do this, just have a touch spectrum. That is awesome.
00:20:14
Speaker
You know, that, that they, they certainly almost all the groups have great facility to play all the technical language, you know, like triple laterals and, you know, all the things, but, um,
00:20:27
Speaker
You know, the ones I feel like that are really memorable are the ones that can weave that technical language into really expressive musical phrasing and, you know, a musical, a sonority within the ensemble of touch that is just at a really mature high level.
00:20:47
Speaker
So I think it's the ones that can merge technique and musicality. um The ones that ah even... as things are integrated with the brass or the battery, they there's synergy, there's a, you know, a really meaningful collaboration between all the colors and all the lines.
00:21:08
Speaker
It just doesn't sit on top of it. It's been integral and it's in the, in the textures of the orchestration.
Judging Preferences and Challenges
00:21:15
Speaker
Yeah. So really having an orchestration that highlights the full um percussion ensemble and not just individual sections.
00:21:22
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. That makes sense. So while you started in the music caption, throughout your judging career, I think you've been able to adjudicate a couple different sub-captions. ah Do you have a favorite sub-caption to judge? And is there one maybe that stands out as being more difficult than the others?
00:21:39
Speaker
I think they're all challenging in different ways. I bet. Yeah, I think you know music is my is its kind of my home. I feel comfortable in that.
00:21:49
Speaker
But I really enjoyed... particularly in DCI, I've enjoyed the opportunity to uh, MA music analysis, music ensemble, um, and speak to the the entire core, uh, that in the beginning, that was really challenging. And I felt like I was a little insecure just in the, you know, I judged 20 plus years in WGI and, and, you know, it felt pretty good about all the percussion language and and understanding. And so, um,
00:22:20
Speaker
switching to that music ensemble caption was, was a ah welcome challenge. But, you know, in the end I was like, music is music, ensemble is ensemble. So whether it's a percussion ensemble, a wind ensemble, a drum corps, you know, most of the music making principles are are the same.
00:22:37
Speaker
So i'm I'm really grateful for those experiences. I've done, I've done quite a bit as well. And, particularly in WGI on affect music. And ah yeah, it's, it's been really fun to kind of like, kind of break out a little bit, keep putting tools in my toolbox.
00:22:53
Speaker
Yeah, certainly. mar my colleagues You've been getting into even bigger roles in the judging world, which we'll get into in a second, but I do have one quick question as a bass drummer. I've actually always felt like the success of my run, particularly in drum corps, was more tied to the music ensemble or the music analysis score than it was to the percussion score at times.
00:23:17
Speaker
Because more often than not, percussion score at least feels like it gets locked in on like the marimbas, the snares, certain voices speak really presently and how that gets evaluated.
00:23:28
Speaker
But bass drums speak so front to back and they're so responsible, or at least they're a huge part of ensemble alignment. What's your take as, as a judge on that idea? Cause I can remember anne and I,
00:23:41
Speaker
feeling that on tour and probably being judged by you at some point. Yeah. I mean, I think you're right. drum is like you're all soloists, one, super challenging.
00:23:53
Speaker
But I think the rules and the functions, there's many, right? Sometimes it's just holding down tempo. um Other times, you know, with the but the nature of the writing now, it can be super melodic.
00:24:06
Speaker
um So it can sometimes it quickly can ah transfer in a phrase from being something that's sort of an anchor from a tempo standpoint yeah into like a pairing, a really cool pairing melodically.
DCI Judge Administrator Role
00:24:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:24
Speaker
And then, you know, obviously providing tons of impact. I mean, I think the bass drums are a huge color in the ensemble that, is yeah, it's just there's there's opportunities to be super creative in that way. And, and the bass drum lines of today are insane.
00:24:42
Speaker
They're just insane. You know, I certainly agree that I could derail our entire conversation and talk to you for two hours about bass drum. So I'll let Ann get on with the next one.
00:24:53
Speaker
Yeah, you got to be careful putting two bass drummers in the in the same call. We'll get stuck on one topic. But speaking of your judging, I know that you've just started to take on a brand new role. You're the judge administrator for DCI now.
00:25:08
Speaker
And I was wondering if there's anything specific that motivated you to take on this new role and if there's anything that you're most excited about to bring to this position. but Yeah, well, you know, I honestly i have to say I didn't go after that role.
00:25:25
Speaker
So when I was kind of approached about it, at first I was pretty hesitant. I mean, the John Phillips who's been in there for 24 years has just done an amazing job, you know, quarter of a century of knowing how to, to, to do that job. It's a tricky job, right? Because it's like, you're the administrator to the judge roster and community. And you're also the liaison to all the designers and the core directors.
00:25:50
Speaker
And so, you know, you've, you've got to build a lot of trust. with that. And so I was, it was pretty daunting. I wasn't sure I wanted to do that, but after several conversations in about three months of, uh, zoom interviews and and phone calls and talking with some people that I, you know, really mentors of mine, just to talk through the situation. I felt like, uh, I came to a place that, you know, maybe I could do this, you know, and then John was super, uh, professional and welcoming. you We kind of set it up so that I'm going to be his successor.
00:26:28
Speaker
So this, this season, 2025, he is still chief judge as well. And he's kind of mentoring me and, and, and providing onboarding for me to kind of teach me the, the ropes a little bit. and And, and then in 2026, I'll kind of fully move into that role. But I think for me, ah In everything that I do, whether it's ah teaching or even being a mom,
00:26:53
Speaker
judging, whatever. I feel like my mindset is always like, kind of like, I remember, and I don't know if they still say this in drum corps, but like when we'd go into schools, you know, and we'd have to clean up afterwards and they're like, leave it better than you found it.
00:27:06
Speaker
That was our mantra. Yeah, leave it better and you found it. And so that's kind of my life. Like i I'm kind of driven by that. Can I leave this better than I found it? You know, can I move the needle forward just a little bit in a
Preparing Judges for Innovation and Diversity
00:27:20
Speaker
positive way? And so...
00:27:22
Speaker
I think that's where ah that's what drives me a little bit in this regard. And I think the judge, uh, rosters phenomenal and they've been encouraging. And I think we're going to be able to work together really well. And of course, um just create, you know, my, my first step is to try to, to build trust and build some relationships. You know, I, John did that for 24 years, so I'm just getting started.
00:27:46
Speaker
But yeah, I think, I think DCI creatively is so exciting and such a neat, you know, activity to to play a small part in. So I'm super excited about just trying to move, make it a little better.
00:27:59
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And you're definitely going to have a lot of capacity to influence stuff and and make things evolve into what the next version of DCI or judging is going to look like.
00:28:10
Speaker
As you step into that role, how do you prepare judges to balance tradition with innovation in the activity? Yeah, I think it's, you know, in any, ah anything that people do, if you've done it for a really long time, you know, you could for perhaps settle into ah ah comfortability that is not innovative.
00:28:34
Speaker
ah But I do think the philosophy and the judges is, and we do a lot of training, we're actually in the middle of training, putting all of our training materials together right now.
00:28:45
Speaker
And I think the philosophy, overall philosophy is you know, a lot of the judges on the roster, I'd say the majority are all have a growth mindset. we're We're not stagnant. They're not stagnant. They don't, you know, they don't get a sort of pigeonholed into one mindset.
00:29:03
Speaker
And so I think just trying to encourage great conversation, great curiosity. I think curiosity is a really great ah principle to kind of live by, you know, there's a behavioral science author, Adam Grant, probably a lot of people have known of Adam Grant. He wrote a book called Think Again. And that book is is really all about asking good questions and staying curious, you know, so if something's done one way,
00:29:31
Speaker
And it's like, that's been, it's been done that way for a long time. How can we think again? you know, how can we stay curious? What if, I love the word, what if, what if we did this? What if we did that?
00:29:41
Speaker
You know, I'm definitely a dreamer. i'm a big dreamer. So I'm going to come to meeting and I'm going to have, I know I'm going to have 12 ideas and one or two are going to be good.
00:29:53
Speaker
But perhaps the conversation around the 12 ideas might spur some really great conversation, brainstorming, another angle to take. So I kind of like to just kind of throw the paint on the canvas and see what happens.
00:30:11
Speaker
Yeah, it's always nice to have a bunch of people that you can bounce ideas off of and sort of see what grows from that. Sure. So to sort of wrap up this portion of our interview, I just wanted to say that you have absolutely been a pioneer for women in percussion and judging in this activity and speaking of ideas.
00:30:30
Speaker
I was wondering if you had any ideas about how DCI could further support and inclusivity and diversity in the judging community. And if you had any recommendations of where to look for any sort of resources for maybe people who are aspiring judges.
00:30:46
Speaker
Yeah. Awesome. Well, DCI actually started a program program a couple of years ago called the Judge Diversity Initiative. And so we're actually actively trying to provide um those opportunities for ah everybody at the table, everybody have a seat at the table.
00:31:04
Speaker
And so while, what does that mean? That just, that means that we're, you know, we all know lots of people, right? So there is that question, like, how do you get on the DCI roster? You know, what are the steps to take? And I think a lot of people are intimidated by that and they don't know what to do.
00:31:21
Speaker
ah And so I think with, we have kind of a team that's doing some, what we call JDI, where they're seeking out through, through, you know, just our, our community of, of really great music educators, really great musicians, really big great band directors or musicians, you know, that um that might be great DCI judges.
00:31:45
Speaker
And so we're seeing more women come being kind of recruited into the program, some phenomenal women. We've got some great women coming into the program. people of all diverse backgrounds. And so we're really excited about our JD. I think that's a great question. And I'm excited to say we're, we're doing it.
00:32:03
Speaker
You know, we're, we know that that, that needs to happen. And we're kind of working towards that. um In terms of resources, to be honest, there aren't a lot. And that's definitely something that I've, that's been on my mind the last few years of maybe kind of holding some Zoom open houses where, you know, three or four of us women that judge DCI or judging WGI kind of just hold an open house for women that are aspiring to maybe do that, either maybe not presently or in the future and just talk about what does that mean? I mean, it is a little bit challenging at times to be a woman in the activity that's so heavily male dominated.
00:32:44
Speaker
um And so I think having those conversations could be really healthy and really hopefully inspiring and and just like provide a
Score Comparisons in Competitions: Is It Fair?
00:32:51
Speaker
safe space. So the women aren't, you know, it's so fearful that they don't try.
00:32:57
Speaker
Yeah, i think that would be i think that would be an awesome thing to put together. This past fall, I judged visual analysis for the first time. And you get lucky depending on the part of the country you live in. If you live in SoCal, maybe you have a couple judges trainings to go to for the local circuits down there. But over here on the East Coast, there's nothing. So it's just a lot of texting old instructors, people that I know and sort of gathering information. So I think it'd be really cool to have some recorded media out there that people can go and reference if it's their first, second, third time. I'm trying to get out there and judge.
00:33:33
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. I always tell everybody, i was like, I'm always happy to, you know, do anything I can. So if somebody's out there and they want to jump on a call, I'm happy to share what I know. And, but yeah, maybe kind of orchestrating something that can reach the masses.
00:33:50
Speaker
That might be really, you know, something I look forward to doing in the future. And we would look forward to ah help and promote it. If you ever get anything going like that, let us know. We will absolutely help share that resource or event or whatever you're putting together.
00:34:04
Speaker
Awesome. Great. But now that we've gotten to know you a little bit better, we want to know one of the central questions to our podcast. And that is what part of the marching arts are you, Julie? Drum roll, please.
00:34:18
Speaker
think we should split it since you guys are bass drummers. Let's split that. Okay. think this is so cliche, but I have two, two answers to this. I'm a drum major for sure.
00:34:31
Speaker
okay And a bus driver.
00:34:35
Speaker
all right. Drive the bus. which I think they're very similar, right? like You know, i'm going to drive the bus. What's the bus? could You know, is it WGI? Is it DCI? Is it,
00:34:47
Speaker
MTSU where I teach, you know, is it my family? You know, i feel like I'm, I drive the bus. And I'm just getting people there on time. What's that? You're getting people where they need to go on time. i don't know about the on time thing, but with spirit.
00:35:02
Speaker
Yes. But I feel like I've always kind of had that sort of nerd out on like leadership things and just taking the lead and kind of stuff like that. Hopefully I, I don't want to over, over dominate in that regard, but yeah, I feel like that's my nature.
00:35:18
Speaker
What are we doing?
00:35:27
Speaker
What are we doing? All right. Well, now it's time to switch things up a little bit, get into what are we doing? Julie, the way this segment works is we ask a question. Maybe it's a, you've got a hot take or, or maybe just something that you think we could do better as an activity. Okay.
00:35:45
Speaker
I'll kick us off because I've got one. I'll say, what are we doing comparing scores across competitions? I know it's fun to do it. We want to make our rankings. But have you seen that there's this Instagram page? It's called Drum Rank that I think has come out maybe this season.
00:36:01
Speaker
I heard a little, you know, little chatter about it. I don't know. I think, I think because of the nature of where we are in technology in today's world with having, you know, social media and all that, that plays a part of everything. I think people just have too much time on their hands and little bit yeah and, and, and publicly you want to chat about it and have an opinion about it. And that's, that's great. But I think, you know,
00:36:28
Speaker
and this is a way back when I was teaching WGI, look, our student, this was prior when, when I was teaching my WGI groups, there was no internet right there. Sorry. I'm really dating myself here, but you know, we didn't know what was going to happen to, we were all under the same roof at the same competition, you know?
00:36:46
Speaker
And, and then that was what it was. Uh, And so i think trying to, you know, i i feel like it's kind of going into like what the and NBA or the NCAA, like the newscasters that sit around the table and talk about, you know, like we have a 24 seven news cycle about yeah oh this person. You know, heard this about Mike Jackson.
00:37:09
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, you know, each his own, I guess they can have a conversation about it. But i think trying to compare scores is, is kind of void, like, it just, you know, and even, even can we we use the term contest, i contest dynamics.
00:37:27
Speaker
It's while we all judge on kind of a national standard and yes, we have an understanding what the national standard is that until you put those groups in the same, at the same venue, the same elements that night, you know, live performance that day, every live performance is different. There's no way to really determine what's going to happen.
00:37:48
Speaker
you know, until everybody's at the show. Yeah, I always agree. And it's like, obviously, it's fun to look at it. But I just think it's a little funny when people get too caught up in like,
00:37:59
Speaker
I mean, I just got done my show. Do I want to be excited about my performance with my friends or do I want to like, go see if this drum line from across the country is competing today. And if they happen to get a higher number on their sheet than I did, it's like, let's, let's focus on ourselves. and joy or toxic I mean, if you came off the field and you felt great about your performance, like you should be allowed to feel that and to not worry about then something you might read.
00:38:25
Speaker
And, you know, later on a social media post that somebody was, you know, not being positive. And it's this then it's like, well, wait, I felt great coming off the field, you know? So I think, right I think, I hate that that has to happen because think those in-person experiences and just, you know, too many people have,
00:38:47
Speaker
Access to have an opinion publicly. So I think it's hard. I think it would be harder. I think back to like, if I was in your generation, I'd really struggle with that a little bit because you're, you just have so many eyes on you all the time. And it's like telling you, you know, how good you are what's what's valid,
Focus on Musical Foundation for Young Groups
00:39:01
Speaker
what's not. And it's like, wait, back in the day, we just, you know, we didn't have that.
00:39:06
Speaker
Yeah, it's wild. Nowadays, some kids go on tour and they have like 10,000 Instagram followers watching their stories every day while they're on tour. Yeah. It's like, you just don't need to engage with all that. That's probably not going to be good for you not ticking and block.
00:39:19
Speaker
Yeah, I listened to this podcast one time ah where it was, think it was Johnny Cash's daughter. and somebody asked her about if she was on social media. And she said, no, I have to stay away from that. She said, because comparison is so hard for me.
00:39:34
Speaker
And she said, and what happens is I never win. Yeah. Like we, we are hard on ourselves, right? Like if we, if we go down that road, we it's, it's hard to come out of that and say, yeah, we, we won, you know, like we feel good about that.
00:39:48
Speaker
So the moral of the story is it's all the percussion ensembles out there. You don't have to compare yourself to pulse. All right, Julie, what, uh, do you have a, what are we doing for us?
00:39:59
Speaker
You know, I thought about, I don't really have a, probably a great answer. I think, um, my My focus is always rooted in music. While i I love all the, I mean, visually what's happening these days is so crazy and what the students are being asked, performers are being asked to do from a physicality standpoint. It's remarkable.
00:40:20
Speaker
It's very athletic. It's amazing. What I see though, sometimes from younger groups that try to emulate that is they, you know, there's a little bit of a struggle with the, they haven't developed a foundation from a technique standpoint yet.
00:40:34
Speaker
to be able to really do that and facilitate. And yet we kind of, I've seen in the activity, particularly WGI a little bit more that, um you know, these younger students are trying so much visually and things suffer musically.
00:40:49
Speaker
And so I would just encourage everybody to get back to the music making first. it It is a percussion ensemble. um And so, you know, and then build visually and and build skill sets, you know,
00:41:04
Speaker
whether you go from a to Open to World or whatever, but just do what, you know, showcase what you can do.
Mentoring Women in Percussion
00:41:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's definitely a good take. I know that there have been some YouTubers lately who have sort of broken down how long are people actually playing in their WGI shows?
00:41:21
Speaker
And some of the most recent high scorers only play for like three minutes of their entire show. So I definitely think that's an interesting take. Yeah, and I think, too, it's just it's that. Great job, everyone. Set your equipment down. Gush and go.
00:41:38
Speaker
All right. Well, we got that one off our chest. Let's bring some positive energy into the room. We'll do the gush and goes now. It's your chance, Julie, to shout out something awesome that's happening in your life, marching arts related or not.
00:41:51
Speaker
Could be excited about a performance, maybe a student success, big life event, or just something cool you want to brag about. no negativity here, just pure unfiltered hype. But ah Julie, do you got anything you want to gush and go on about?
00:42:06
Speaker
that's so hard for me. um I mean, I'm super excited about this new role for DCI. I'm really excited about that. ah Yeah, I mean, weve I've had so many great students. That's so fulfilling is to watch students kind of come into their own.
00:42:25
Speaker
And I've had a couple recently that are you know, kind of reached out and just really excited. They they're doing some indoor and they're, uh, I can see that spirit in them with their building and their programs.
00:42:38
Speaker
And, uh, it's just really fun to watch. So I'm excited about that. I am excited about tip perhaps what Ann brought up about maybe trying to mentor and champion the next generation of women um in the marching arts. You know, it's so exciting. I will say that, um,
00:42:56
Speaker
at one of the competitions I was judging a couple weeks ago, I think in Texas, and we had critique. And that was the first time ever, I think, that I probably had at least 50% of the instructors coming into critique that were women.
00:43:12
Speaker
Oh, wow. Nice. It was amazing. And, you know, I saw when when groups were coming onto the floor, I saw women leading those groups onto the floor, you know, and you see so many more girls that are, that are playing in every section. um And so I'm really encouraged. I hope that I can be the unencourager and a champion and a mentor to see kind of this, this momentum that we have. And I think, I think it comes from both women ah being more fearless and getting involved.
00:43:46
Speaker
And also I think it comes, it has to also come from the men in the activity, you know, so accepting and being encouraging in their own right to women as well and creating a space that we all feel like we all belong.
00:44:00
Speaker
I will say if I could do a real shout out, I had amazing ah mentors in my life or the who men that were my champions. And one was Dennis DeLucia. i met Dennis when I was 17 a music for all camp, basically before they was called music for all ah Dennis DeLucia, Fred Sanford, both super encouraging to me as, as a 17 year old female drummer.
00:44:24
Speaker
Mark Thurston with wgi invited me to come to judge back in the early nineties when there were no women judging. And so that for, I've had those men that just saw beyond like any kind of gender bias and just and encouraged me and championed me. So I think, I think it's important to have, to have both women and men just opening the space for everybody.
Final Thoughts and Upcoming Projects
00:44:45
Speaker
Right. Just, so I'm excited about that.
00:44:47
Speaker
That's hopefully going to continue to get better. Well, yeah, that's awesome. I definitely look forward to hearing more about it. I think that that's all like a really good action for you guys to take as, you know, the people leading the way in DCI and WGI. So I'm excited to hear more about it, you know, in the next coming years.
00:45:06
Speaker
um But, Anne, do you got anything you want to gush and go on about? um Nothing too huge at this moment, but I guess on the water break, heard it first. I will be with Crossman this summer on the audio team. So we're kind of getting our schedule locked together for that. I think it'll be Crossman's first summer, actually with a team of people for the audio.
00:45:27
Speaker
so we're going to be sort of rebuilding the system, getting it a little bit more modernized. And so I'm really excited to get to hop on the road a little bit and help out with that. Yeah, awesome. That'll be fun. That's awesome.
00:45:40
Speaker
See you out there. Yeah, I'll see you out there. Awesome. And then for me to gush and go real quick, I'm just really excited for WGI finals with on a water break. We're going to be planning some really cool content, ah both for guard week and for percussion week. So make sure you check it out. Hopefully some in-person stuff too, ah going on in the tent will be fun.
00:46:01
Speaker
So ah check it out as we get closer and closer to world championships, but Hey, it's called gush and go, not gushing the day. Let's go.
00:46:13
Speaker
I forgot that that was going to come in. ah Thank you guys both for a great rehearsal this week. Thank you, Ann, for joining me. And thank you to our guest clinician, Julie. ah Julie, please tell us where our listeners could find you on any of your socials or anything like that.
00:46:27
Speaker
Sure. So on Instagram, on Facebook, but your generation doesn't do that really anymore.
00:46:40
Speaker
um I mean, that's pretty much it. I kind of try to stay off the all the other stuff, but Instagram is where you can find me.
00:46:49
Speaker
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00:47:02
Speaker
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00:47:14
Speaker
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Conclusion and Engagement Reminder
00:47:24
Speaker
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00:47:30
Speaker
Follow us on social media at On A Water Break, and we'll see you at the next rehearsal on A Water Break.
00:47:42
Speaker
The On a Water Break podcast was produced by Jeremy Williams and Christine Rehm. The intro and outro music was produced by Josh Lida. To learn more, visit LidaMusic.com.
00:47:53
Speaker
And until next time, thanks for tuning