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Prosperity, Hardship, and Clinging to God's Promises #ScriptureUnfiltered
61 Plays1 year ago
In this episode of the Grove Hill Church podcast, Pastor Ridley Barron and Dan Sanchez dive into an intriguing discussion sparked by a recent sermon on Psalm 23. They explore the idea of how believers can navigate God's promises, especially during times of adversity, and address the challenging question of suffering in the Christian faith. The conversation touches on the balance of embracing God's promises while facing difficult circumstances, the importance of humility and gratitude in both prosperity and hardship, and the timeless relevance of Psalm 23 in providing comfort and guidance through life's trials. Join us as we explore the deep wisdom and practical insights shared in this thought-provoking episode.
Timestamps:
00:00 God uses trials to bring glory to Him.
04:51 Find strength in scripture, God's promises, community.
10:02 God extends periods to build character and dependency.
13:15 Our choices may lead to challenging times.
14:18 Caution in the good seasons is necessary.
17:50 Paul emphasizes finding contentment in all circumstances.
21:06 Sister finds meaning in 23rd Psalm.
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Transcript
Introduction to Psalm 23 Discussion
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to the Grove Hill Church podcast. I'm here with Pastor Ridley Barron, and we are diving into an interesting angle from the last Sunday sermon, which was a wrap up of the Get Out of My Head series, and you wrapped it up with a sermon on Psalm 23, which is
00:00:18
Speaker
I don't know, it was probably one of the chapters that I'm, it was like the first larger chunk of scripture that I've ever memorized as a child. It was like a school project. I had to pick a poem and instead of picking a poem, I picked Psalm 23. And I just did it because I needed the grade and it was just a convenient Psalm to pick. And it's short, it's simple, it works through. But honestly, it became a powerhouse in my life because every time I was fearful, every time I was afraid, every time I was alone, that became like a core scripture in my mind that I would recite in my head because I'd already put in the work to memorize it.
00:00:48
Speaker
because it's famous for a reason. It's such a balanced verse. There's so many promises on it. It's such a beautiful thing.
Promises of Psalm 23 and Christian Suffering
00:00:56
Speaker
So it was fun to hear the sermon on it. But this topic often brings to mind another issue that it brings up, because there's so many promises wrapped into this powerhouse of a psalm that I often find that it brings up an interesting question. And that's the topic for this podcast, is bringing up a question around Christian suffering.
00:01:16
Speaker
or the theology of suffering, because there's promises in it. And it has all these like, my cup is overflowing. You lead me beside still waters. You're always with me. You prepare a table before me. But then the question always comes is, how do we navigate these promises when it's not lining up with our circumstances?
00:01:36
Speaker
And we feel like it's been some time now and I'm praying in faith and I'm clinging to, I'm clinging faith to God's promises. That's some peaceful stream. He's going to put me beside some peaceful streams. I'm going to get some warm wins in my life. What do you do when those aren't taking for wishing in the way you thought they would? Do they mean they're not true?
00:01:57
Speaker
Oh, no, not at all. I think it's a misinterpretation of what God's ultimate goal is for us versus what our ultimate goal is for us. For many of us, even who fall strongly in the evangelical camp of Christianity, many of us, our association with God brings to mind
00:02:19
Speaker
The images you described, green meadows, still waters, anointing my head with oil, which was a sign of blessing and even to some degree prosperity in that day and age. All of those things are the things we like to associate with, but we leave out large chunks of scripture where God very clearly says that suffering is a part of this life. Sometimes it's in our lives just because we live in a broken world. Sometimes it's in our lives because we make dumb choices.
Role of Suffering in Faith
00:02:46
Speaker
And sometimes it's in our life because just like with the story of Job, God says, I'm going to put you through this trial because I know you're going to bring me glory as you go through it. So there's a lot of things involved there. Now, you know, the first place where we see, at least in my mind, that really sticks out that this is a part of God's plan rather than contrary to God's plan is that famous passage where
00:03:08
Speaker
Joseph at the end of his, you know, his time in Egypt, when the guys, the brothers show up, he says, you know, you intended all this for evil, but God intended it for good. Which means if you read it carefully and look at it objectively, we have to recognize that means God knew from the beginning that Joseph was going to be going through those circumstances and he chose not to remove them, but instead just to continue to let them unfold because through it all, it was going to bring glory to him and save many lives as the verse goes on to say.
00:03:37
Speaker
Almost makes you wonder like if you saw in a hypothetical situation, you had two husband and wife teams and both, one went through a life of general ease and prosperity. Both loved Jesus, both loved his name, and one went through a life of, you know, some hardship, but both praised his name. Which one brings more glory to God at the end of their lives? Probably the ones who stuck through it. Yeah.
00:04:03
Speaker
Absolutely. And you know, we made this comment in our leadership Academy we were doing last week, the statement that our faith doesn't show us brightly in the light as it does in the dark. So when we go through those dark seasons in our life, man, it's the contrast is there and it's hard for the world to deny, man, there's, there's something different about a believer who goes through stress, holding the hand of their savior versus somebody who's going through life on their own.
00:04:29
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, how many times have we uttered the phrase, I don't know how people do this without Jesus. So yeah, it's his presence in the, in the presence of our enemies that it gives us confidence and hope. So how do you cling to promises when things are hard? Do you just look at it as like, God, you could show up at any time, but until then I'm just gonna, just gonna take it. How do you handle it?
Community and Scripture During Hardships
00:04:51
Speaker
Well, I think it starts with a statement of the obvious, but it's hard to cling to something you don't know is there. And what I mean by that is,
00:05:00
Speaker
As always, we push people back to Scripture. You got to know what God has promised to you and what God has not promised to you. And that's done by gaining greater knowledge and intimacy with His Word and understanding what promises we can claim for ourselves in the relationship with Him. I think that the reminder, the constant reminder of Scripture to remember what God has done in the past because it gives you courage in the present,
00:05:25
Speaker
That's a vital lesson for all of us because God's faithfulness in the past gives us confidence where we are in this place in our lives. I think the company of others in community, I think that's a really important part where we hear the stories and the testimonies of those who've gone before us.
00:05:44
Speaker
the great cloud of witnesses, as Hebrew calls them. In those seasons, we are given the ability to learn from other people's dark seasons. So there's a lot of different places there where we can draw strength from and a knowledge, a greater knowledge of what God has promised he will do for us in those dark valleys that we go through.
00:06:03
Speaker
I'm fine. I'm just coming out of a hard season in the fall. It was hard for me just because starting off on my own, I let go for my job and started off solo. It takes a while to build up some clientele and to get things going. It was scary. I remember thinking multiple times, I'm like, praise God for hard seasons because it draws us. It always pushes you closer to Him. I remember reciting to myself multiple times, James one, consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever he faced trials and many times through the test of your faith it develops.
00:06:31
Speaker
Perseverance I think I might have just mixed two different verses, but that's all right same same heart. Thank you. Same thought
00:06:37
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think if you, if you look at a person's life, a person who has a, let's just say a cursory knowledge of Jesus, maybe they have a relationship with him, but maybe they're an immature believer or maybe not a well-informed believer. When they go through a dark season, they go through it in a very different way. Um, there's a tendency to want to try to take charge of the situation and see if you can't dig your way out. There's a, uh, there's a certain amount of fear that's allowed in.
00:07:06
Speaker
that you wouldn't have in a different scenario because you, again, don't have enough knowledge of what God's working in and through your life. If you take a different scenario where it's a much more grounded believer, one who has been through the fire before with God, who has a track record of trusting him in the past and even a knowledge of the scripture, what it allows you to do is to pull yourself out of your situation and to look at it from the perspective of God
00:07:35
Speaker
and go, okay, I'm in the middle of the valley. What does God want me to learn while I'm here?
00:07:41
Speaker
You know, what is it that he's trying to show me? What area of my faith is he trying to strengthen? Where is he wanting me to give him praise in this dark season so others might see it and draw strength from it?
Transformation Through Pain
00:07:53
Speaker
So again, just I think a greater awareness of the fact that God is our shepherd in all those situations gives us the ability to step out of it and go, you know, I'm not, I'm not going to get caught up on my discomfort right now in this season. I'm going to look for how God's going to use this for his glory.
00:08:08
Speaker
Reminds me of this great quote from a fantastic theologian named P.T. Forsythe. It's a great book on prayer, but it's a greater thing to pray for pain's conversion than for its removal.
00:08:20
Speaker
Ooh, that's good. I've never heard that one. It's kind of a deep one, so you have to sit and think about it. It's a greater thing to pray for pain's conversion, as in to let the hard season do its work in you and bringing you closer to God than just praying for that hard season to go away. It's kind of counterintuitive. It kind of goes against the prosperity gospel, which is why I kind of like it, because it keeps me... Honestly, it's that thing that brings you closer, and I think
00:08:44
Speaker
And it's so hard. I read this during hard times and I'm like, so hard though, so hard to consider it joy when you're suffering. But at the same time, even if it still hurts and it's hard to put a smile on your face, if it's driving you towards Jesus.
00:09:00
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of doing it's good that way it actually counts for you because you could just sit there and you know Put your hands over your head and just kind of bear it and whimper or you can let it do its good work That's and that's what I love about Christianity's because Christianity like it whether you're a Christian or not You're gonna go through hard times and good times. Mm-hmm But if you're a Christian those hard times count for something. Yeah in this life and in the next life
00:09:24
Speaker
You know, I can't help but think about these situations. Uh, when I think about them going back to my high school days of playing football in the South Georgia heat, you know, you're out there and it's 98, 99 degrees, you're dying in the heat and the humidity you've, you're reaching the end of a practice and the coach says, run a play and you do it wrong. And he says, run it again. And you keep doing it again, again, again. And his comment is until you get it right, we're going to stay here. And in this moment, you got to learn what it is I'm trying to show you.
00:09:52
Speaker
And I think many times God speaks to us and says, you know what, if you would be humble in this season and receive what I'm trying to show you and teach you, then we would find our way out of the Valley faster.
00:10:03
Speaker
But because we're, we're arrogant or resistant to change or whatever the reason is, we get, we, we, uh, extend our periods in the darkness because God's saying, I got to keep you there until
Learning from Trials
00:10:14
Speaker
you're ready. You know, and even more biblical example, we talked, I think about this, maybe it was last week, maybe it was the week before, but the whole story of the Exodus. It should have been a two week trip for the Hebrew people to get where they're going. But God took 40 years of trying to build the character in them that he needed.
00:10:31
Speaker
And even after 40 years, obviously they didn't get it right. But 40 years of trying to teach them to have a dependency on him, to know who he was, to know that he was going to be their provision. And that could have been absolutely shortened by years, by decades, if they had just gotten the lessons right early on. So if we seek after God, become more like him during the hard times, is there a realistic, can we still cling to those promises knowing that there's probably some good times around the corner?
00:11:00
Speaker
Oh yeah, absolutely. I definitely think, first of all, just like a good coach, you know, how much your guys can really take. Most often it's more than they think they can take themselves, you know, they're ready to give up, but you're saying, no, you've got five more plays in you. I believe you can do it. God looks at us and says, look, I know how much you can handle this, this season. I'm going to give it to you. But I also recognize there's a point where you got to sit back and take a break and let the soul heal a little bit before we go to the next valley.
00:11:29
Speaker
making me think of just a moment ago how Noah was washing the dishes.
00:11:32
Speaker
And he was cleaning the muffin pans, like the little mini muffins, you know. It's a little hard to clean. It's got all the sockets to open in there and stuff. And he was just kind of like, I can't do it. It's too hard. And we're sitting there and we're like, but yes, that is the hardest dish. Yes. Yes. It is harder. It is harder than all the dishes. Yes, you can do it, but it's taking 10 times longer because you're whimpering through this dish that could have been done already. But yes, it is. You're going to make some woman a happy woman someday because her husband's been trained how to clean that muffin pan.
00:12:02
Speaker
Yeah. I'm like, how often is that me on the other side though? And I'm cleaning a muffin pan and God's like, yes, yes, it is harder than anything you've done before. And yes, you can do it. It is positive. Yeah, man. You know, again,
00:12:17
Speaker
Hindsight is always much better, but as I sit here 56 years old, I can sit here and probably tell you dozens of times looking back at my life where I'd go, man, I wish I had just gotten the lesson sooner. How much further along I'd be in my journey or how I wish I'd have gotten it right the first time. So I wouldn't have had to stay in that season as long as I did. But again, looking back, you know, that in that season, he was there with you every bit of the way, ready to pull you out when the time came right.
00:12:46
Speaker
I used to get mad at myself and now I kind of see it as a symbol, as a good thing. If I can look at myself from last year and be like, you dummy head, like, like if only you would have known this, I'm like, no, I'm like, that's, that's a good thing. If I'm looking at it only a year ago and looking, thinking that person was that person needs to learn some things. I'm like, that's, that's called progress. That's called you've grown some between here and there. Cause if you're not looking back a year ago or even five years ago and think that person was dumb, then you probably haven't learned a lot.
00:13:15
Speaker
I do think we have to underline and emphasize too that many of our dark valleys are brought on by our own choices too.
Response to Abundance and Prosperity
00:13:21
Speaker
Yes. And I think when we make those boneheaded decisions or when we get a little too proud to let God deal with what he needs to deal with in us, he says, okay, if this is the way you want to handle this, then we're going to have to go through a valley to get it out of you.
00:13:36
Speaker
You know, we're going to have to take you through something that really wasn't on the agenda for you, but you chose this path. So here you go. This is what we're going to do. So it's, it's not always the cultures issue and it's not always God allowing us to go through that thing. Sometimes it's just our choices that set us up that the only way we're going to move forward is if we go through the valley instead of try to go around it.
00:13:59
Speaker
What do you think the appropriate response is when our cup is overflowing? Oh gosh. Life seems to be going good. Do you find that more Christians kind of get lost in the season of goodness and prosperity or in like the hard seasons? And what's the best response in a good season, an overflowing season?
00:14:18
Speaker
I would say at least in my estimation, the good seasons, the overflow seasons are probably very dangerous for most of us because, um, those are the times where the enemy tricks us into believing it's our good behaviors or our good skills or our good wisdom that guide us there. It's also, um,
00:14:39
Speaker
It's me it's it's kinda like you take a kid to an amusement park and they get really excited and they're fired up about being there you almost have to restrain them with your hands cuz they wanna run away from you in their joy and their excitement they wanna take off and do whatever in that season as a parent you're having to go okay. I'm glad you're enjoying yourself but you wouldn't be here if it weren't for me you know as a as a parent as a father.
00:15:07
Speaker
God has to remind us, you know, that, that bounty you're enjoying is from my hand. So I'm glad you're enjoying it. I'm glad you're enjoying this great season in your life, but don't run off and forget about who brought you here in good seasons. It's funny. You think of good seasons. You often think of like prosperity as in like the money. Usually it's like tied somewhere to like your financial wellbeing. Right. Right.
00:15:30
Speaker
It almost makes me want to think, or it really brings a mind like that verse. It's harder for an camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into heaven, right? Probably because of that prosperity, that self-assuredness.
00:15:45
Speaker
That comes almost wonder if like during good times is when you probably need to be the most humble Yeah, and I can't think of a better way to do it than just being the most than then just clinging to being servant hearted and letting your cup overflow and actually run it over Yeah, I think a lot of people will they'll overflow and they'll just grab another cup to catch the overflow But I'm like, well if you're really Overflowing being the most that's probably the time to be the most generous. Yes
00:16:12
Speaker
is probably the best way to protect yourself against falling into some kind of pride that would keep you from God.
00:16:19
Speaker
I would say there are two tools that I would offer as protection against the pride that comes from good seasons. One of them is what you're mentioned, being willing to give it away, be willing to let others live in the overflow of your life, to enjoy the blessings you're enjoying, whether that's family or complete strangers, whoever it may be. The other tool I think is just this attitude of gratitude about every day of your life.
00:16:45
Speaker
God, I'm going to get up and thank you that the cancer diagnosis came yesterday, but you're going to be my God in this cancer situation. And then six months later, God, I'm going to get up and thank you that today I got them all clear and everything's good and the cancer is gone and you have provided healing. I'm going to thank you for this situation. Whether I lose my job or get a bonus at my job or raise it, my job, I'm going to recognize that every single thing that touches me comes through you first. And because of that, I want to start by acknowledging
00:17:15
Speaker
who you are in my life and what you have done for me. And to wrap this up, it brings to mind like one question I've actually wanted to ask you about is now coming back to my mind to ask, is when it comes to Christian prosperity, is it okay to want to prosper? Essentially, I've heard it said like, earn all you can, save all you can, give all you can. Should it be a Christian's aim, if you're working in the marketplace,
00:17:42
Speaker
to earn as much as you can so you can be as generous as you can. Or is it better to find a place where you provide enough for yourself and be content? Paul in the passage in Philippians says, whether in great prosperity or in times of lack and need or whatever, I can't remember the term he actually uses there, I have learned to be content. So to me, it sounds like that Paul was saying there's nothing wrong
00:18:08
Speaker
with, with wanting bounty, nothing wrong with wanting prosperity and blessing. But if it's the focus of your life, if it causes you to treat others poorly in order to get there, if it's about creating greater comfort for you, I mean, there's lots of hazards along the way. And the Bible is very clear that there are more hazards for those who are wealthy and rich than there are for those who, you know, who are poor or even mouth to mouth day to day, whatever.
00:18:37
Speaker
I think for me that yeah, prosperity is not something you should run away from, but there's all the things that are attached to it that become the dangers for it. My wife and I, for instance, both of us, when we take spiritual gifts tests, go really high on the giving side of things. We love to bless people. We love to take care of families. We love to give to organizations that are sharing the gospel. So there are times where I catch myself praying, God, can you give me just a little bit more so I can give a little bit more?
00:19:05
Speaker
I don't think those kinds of desires are wrong, but if you saw me knocking people over to get to that place of prosperity or putting people down in order to find that wealth that I'm looking for, then I think I've crossed over from a good, pure desire to something that absolutely is contrary to what God wants for us.
00:19:24
Speaker
Makes a lot of sense. Stay faithful, and it's okay to pursue those things, but you got to remember your faithfulness to essentially the fruit of the spirit or living a life that reflects Christ, comes above all else. And if God is
00:19:41
Speaker
going to bless, bless you in your journey, especially financially, then the best thing you can do is to be generous because it's still God's. You don't get to hold on to it. You don't get to keep it. Someday you're going to be parted from everything you've owned and your descendants, descendants will not remember your name. Eventually that's enough lines will go by and nobody will remember it. And that's a sneaky trick that Satan uses because it's very subtle that along the way from
00:20:09
Speaker
being a man of little means to being a man who owns and prospers much that somewhere along the way, you begin to believe it's because I'm that good at what I do. And then if you're, if you're, again, if you're objective and if you're really listening to God, you step back and look at your situation and say, yeah, but I'm not that good. God made me that good. You know, God made me good at this job. God gave me the skills and the mental capacities to do what I do.
00:20:39
Speaker
So yeah, I'm making money, but I couldn't even make the money if it weren't for God giving me what I've been given.
Significance of Psalm 23 with Age
00:20:45
Speaker
The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. Yes, He does. And it's those hard times that keep us humble and keep us clinging to Him and make this Psalm 23 all the more sweet.
00:20:57
Speaker
It's, and it's honestly, it's much sweeter swan when you're walking through the valley, the shadow of death is when I find I'm quoting it more often than when I'm in the, uh, earlier, my sister, my oldest sister, um, listens to my sermons every week. She does it, I think why she's cleaning her bathrooms or something. But she texted me earlier today and she said, you know, it's funny listening to that the 23rd song when I was younger.
00:21:21
Speaker
was kind of just something you learn to recite in Bible school or Sunday school class. And it was sweet and it was poetic, but it was something that older people kind of clung to whatever she said, the older I get, the more I am appreciative of the promises that God gives through David and that, and that.
00:21:39
Speaker
psalm and how much it covers of our lives as far as comfort and reassurance in those situations. So yeah, and I agreed with her a hundred percent. I said, you know, as a kid, I remember listening to people read it and I thought that's sweet poetry, but I'm not a poet and that kind of stuff. But yeah, I mean, even just preaching it this past Sunday, it was, there was a greater appreciation for everything that David was trying to communicate to us about his experiences with the living God.
00:22:08
Speaker
So if you're listening to this and you haven't memorized Psalm 23, it is one of the full chapters. And then you can say you memorized
Podcast Mission and Closing Remarks
00:22:15
Speaker
the whole chapter. That's right. But it's one of the short chapters that are just, is such a life-giving chapter. It's really not too long. I mean, what is it? 12 verses? Six verses. Six verses. Yeah, it's gosh. Yeah.
00:22:27
Speaker
It doesn't take too long to memorize. And it's one of those things that you can cling to for the rest of your life once you get this one locked and written on your heart because God will bring it back up and he's faithful. And this is one of those ones that works in good times and bad times and okay times and that can lead you and guide you and bring peace to you, that can bring guidance to you. There's a reason why this is a famous Psalm because it's just that powerful. Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:22:55
Speaker
So thank you for listening to the Grove Hill Church podcast where we try to impact the life of every person with the whole gospel by any means possible. That includes this podcast. So if this has blessed you, make sure to share it with somebody who might need to learn a little bit more about Psalm 23, who might be going through some hard times and need some encouragement that
00:23:16
Speaker
Yes, it's not you. You're not doing anything wrong necessarily that God can be at work in you and do wonderful things in you as well as through you during good times and hard times.