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47: Mockingjay Part Two
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Are you coming to the Hanging Tree? This week on BookWatch, we are analyzing the second half of Mockingjay and the second film showing us the end of Katniss Everdeen’s journey. J Scotty St Clair joins us once again to discuss all the changes between book and film, and all of the tragedy and hope that we are left with at the end of this story. We mourn the deaths of beloved characters and say hello to a bright future where the atrocities of the Hunger Games are no more, and the better world that Katniss suffered and killed for is realized.
Join hosts Chris, Jordyn, and Sarah-Daye as they break down what worked, what didn’t, and whether this adaptation does the book justice.
Tell us your thoughts! Did you love or hate this adaptation? Let’s discuss in The Book Watch Lounge on Facebook
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
All right. um Welcome back on this episode. We're continuing our discussion of Mockingjay, the third installment of the Hunger Games series by Suzanne Collins, published in 2010. Last week, we covered the 2014 film Mockingjay Part 1, and today we're going to to continue on to the 2015 Mockingjay Part 2.
00:00:21
Speaker
I'm Sarah Day. And I'm Chris. And I'm Jordan. And we've got Scottie back again, but we'll get started after these messages.
00:00:41
Speaker
Welcome to Book Watch, the podcast where pages meet screens. Each week, we dive into the world of adaptations, comparing beloved books with their cinematic counterparts. From faithful retellings to bold reimaginings, we'll break down what worked, what didn't, and what made each adaptation unforgettable. Whether you are a bookworm, a movie buff, or both, grab your bookmark. Grab your popcorn. And let's watch some books.
00:01:06
Speaker
All right. Thanks for waiting.
New Characters and Their Impact
00:01:08
Speaker
And again, yeah, Jay Scottie, thanks for joining us for another conversation about The Hunger Games. Yeah, yeah. So happy to be here. Thanks for having me. We're going to dive right in today because we we covered a lot of the introduction on this story last week. But we have some new characters and cast to go through. so I'm going to run through that list. Again, I'm not going to recap who we've seen so far. So starting with Tigress, played by Eugenie Bondurant.
00:01:37
Speaker
Holmes played by Omid Aptadi. Mitchell played by Joe Crest. Lieutenant Jackson played by Michelle Forbes. League One and Two played by Misty and Kim Ormiston.
00:01:50
Speaker
And then Commander Lime played by Gwendolyn Quistey, who is a major book character. Well, not major, but she's she's got a much bigger role in the book than she does in the films.
00:02:00
Speaker
But it was good to see her. For sure. Any other thoughts on these characters? Well, just kind of picking up the torch from the the one you ended on there, Gwendolyn Christie as Commander Lyme. Yes. um The book, Suzanne Collins does such a great job describing her physicality and how she looks. I was just like, i immediately had a a picture painted in my mind, but I didn't remember who was cast in the role. So when she appeared up on screen, I was like, oh, of course you nailed it. You nailed it. Yeah. brienne of tarth um as well as captain phasma from uh from from star wars there so uh just really inspired casting there i will say unfortunately think a lot of the uh the members of um ah the all-star squad uh uh four five one if i'm not mistaken they do feel a little cannon foddery uh which is which is okay uh but i do have to call out tigris um eugenie bonderon because that was another one like
00:02:52
Speaker
The book describes the character and we know the affectations and the otherworldly styles of the capital, but this was just like, it it came to life better than I could have even imagined. Like the practical effects and how she really did look like this like human turned tiger creature was just amazing.
00:03:10
Speaker
And the book goes into tigers a little more with her, um, like history as someone who think was one of the, um, the stylists or something. Uh, she had a major part in the hunger games. And then once she was, once they were done with her, they just kind of tossed her aside and, uh, you know she's got some, uh, some, another character that's just basically been destroyed by the the capital, um, and gives you that heartbreak for another
Gale's Ruthlessness and Katniss's Dilemma
00:03:35
Speaker
person. And, you know, they've made a comment on point where she only eats raw meat, like a cat.
00:03:39
Speaker
or like a tiger like oh that's that's that's intense all right really interesting but yeah i think the performance was well done that was the only other one i was only one i was gonna comment on yeah everybody else cannon fodder like you said like they literally yeah are in the book just long enough for them to die crazy to choose your elite people in all these depart areas and then just pull them back and put them as your you know uh your group that's just getting filmed i was like what you don't need the elites for that you can just choose anybody for that true that it looks cooler yeah as long as it looks cool you're fine
00:04:15
Speaker
And the one member in particular that I felt like in the film felt especially cann cannon foddery was, and we didn't say the name on this one because he did appear in part one, but was Masala. Because Masala at least had a few like sequences as like the makeup stylist for Cressida. And then there's like even a sequence where i remember he like he's like loses himself in the moment and thinks he's back in the Capitol for a second and complains about like some modern inconvenience. And Finnick's like, really, dude?
00:04:41
Speaker
Like we're in the middle of a war. And, you know, he does die, unfortunately, in the book. But in this one, it was like, oh, that guy, I thought he died earlier. I thought i actually thought that I thought he died alongside Mitchell because there was another body there that was I wasn't clear whose body that was. Maybe it was Boggs, but I wasn't sure.
00:04:59
Speaker
Again, that's that stuff that goes way too fast. And you're like, you maybe understand it like we talked about, but you just, you you lose track of these people really easily when you're not yeah yeah and having time to think about them.
00:05:11
Speaker
You do in the book too, because I remember, and sorry to get ahead of things, but like I had to reread the sequence like in the, in the subterranean area with the mutts chasing everybody. I had to read it like three or four times because it's like, i did that too.
00:05:25
Speaker
You have the standoff where the final league and and Jackson say we're going to hold the ground and then you have Phoenix death. But in between I'm like, what happened to Castor? What happened to to Holmes? And you do lose them in that sequence, but it's not it's again, it's like Suzanne Collins, just the frenetic energy and chaos of war. You don't have that time to be like, OK, who did we lose? Who didn't we lose? It's only after you get the moment to breathe that you get to tally, tally the losses there.
00:05:52
Speaker
Yeah, that was a section with the audio book that you really had to stop doing anything else and not be doing the dishes while you're listening and just sit and listen. Because I was like, yeah I got to go back. I missed something there. I missed something there. I missed something there. Yeah.
00:06:04
Speaker
Well, that's where Finnick and Katniss both like, they're joking, like, welcome to the 76th Hunger Games. But like that part felt the most like the Hunger Games. of like truly right Right at the beginning, the cornucopia and the mad dash, everybody trying to get supplies and you just hear cannons going off of people dying. And then it's not till later when you spread out again and you know in the evening. where that's when you get to see okay process okay who who got killed at the cornucopia and so that you know that part of it while yes very chaotic very like stressful and hard to follow like it's hard to follow in the hunger games too like in the arena you know katniss has to think and do the mental math of like okay i saw this person i saw that one go down you know but i'm not sure and then like
00:06:52
Speaker
counting the cannons and like that kind of mental math and like the battlefield calculus happening you know it felt it's different of course because you're not in the arena you're in you know an urban area but it it felt familiar in that way yeah it's a great call Going back to the beginning of the book.
00:07:13
Speaker
Or and I should say movie, not book.
Training Omissions and Character Dynamics
00:07:17
Speaker
We're about halfway through the book. So we we open up this film with Going to the Nut. And this is what we talked about last week with Gail and his willingness and his worthlessness. And they're talking about how to take this location. And they're talking about closing off all the exits. um And that's when she really starts to like...
00:07:39
Speaker
see and realize and internalize that gail is like this but they end up filming a propo at this location as they're waiting for any survivors to come and we get the whole moment with um her helping the guy but she he holds the gun to her and she does end up getting shot gail i like the book the version of these scenes better. Again, I understand we got to cut for time. We've got more stuff to do that's more arguably more important later. But in the book, Katniss takes the time to talk about why why this particular instance of Gale's ruthlessness is so bad because they are from the coal mining district and people, her father, his father died in coal mining accidents where the tunnels got blown up and they couldn't escape and they suffocated and they burned alive. And like that is particularly triggering for her. And she's like, it should be really, she doesn't use this language, but she's like, it should be really triggering for Gail. Like how, how can you stomach doing that on purpose to another person when we know so many people personally who have died of that exact thing? Like that, like you said, like that, this moment really gives her pause and she really is like, oh, like, you're not who I thought you were. This is't this is another level, you know? And so I wish that the movie had taken just a couple of more lines to...
00:09:06
Speaker
draw us back to the mines and her father and his father and like the personal connection of why this is actually so much worse than just you know blowing up a mountain and trapping people like it's very very personal and and I think Suzanne Collins like deliberately wrote it this way to bring that call back to the mines and I wish the movie had taken the time to to bring us back to that as well Yeah, because it also, in the book, it's like the the whole sequence really does a lot to establish how callous Gale has become. But the line that's kind of sticking out to me is like, he's kind of like trying to justify and with all the pushback he's getting, not just from Katniss, but even like people like Beedee. And he says, what so what is the is the big issue we have that they're going to have some time to like, you know, think about their deaths rather than it just being instantaneous and like,
00:09:58
Speaker
uh it just comes across as so out of touch yeah well and gwendoline christie's character makes the comment like there are civilians in there too right that like it's not just you know capital and like peacekeeper um personnel inside it like it is a military base but there are also civilians in there too and so we just see again you know katniss so determined to protect the innocent and the people who are just doing whatever they have to do to survive. And that difference between her having survived the Hunger Games and been in there and Gail not having that experience and him not understanding. you know, having to do horrible things for your survival or like, you know, Katniss has constantly had her mom and sister and Gail be threatened by President Snow. If you don't do what I want you to do, I'll kill them. And so that difference in them and her saying like, he doesn't even have that, you know, trauma of like, I have to protect my people in the same way. Like, you know, we talked about he's very protective, but like, it's just a little bit different in this instance. And he is still willing to harm
00:11:05
Speaker
civilians and in innocents without that like immediately immediate threat of like gun to your head you have to do this to survive um and so you know Screw Gail, as always. Screw Gail. She's got the anger without the consequences. She's experienced what her actions have caused when she acts out on that anger and hurts people without thinking about it because it she has experienced the consequences from Snow, from even in The Hunger Games, the immediate consequences of her own soul getting kind of ripped up a little bit from having to kill people that she didn't want to. Yeah. Right.
Peta's Return and Star Squad's Role
00:11:43
Speaker
So she recovers from this, um the the the shots that she has taken at the hut, at the nut, sorry. And, um Nobody out pizzas the hut.
00:11:54
Speaker
As she is kneeling, she discovers that she's not going to go back out. They're like, your job is done. You've you've you've done what you you did as the Mockingjay. Thank you. um And she's like, no, I want to fight. like I'm in this. And they're like you you cant like, you have no training. You've skipped all of your training. So she and Joanna go through this training together. I think it's three weeks in the book.
00:12:19
Speaker
And then they get they they're with these rookies um and they finally get through to the final test. And it's like testing your biggest weakness or or something like that. And Katniss doesn't make it through. Joanna does not. she She was tortured with water. That's her biggest fear. And she doesn't make it through that trial. um So she gets to go off, Katniss does, to join the star squad. But what do you think about them cutting this this little section of the book out?
00:12:49
Speaker
This is definitely a change that I have thoughts on and I'm conflicted because on the one hand, you lose a lot of that burgeoning friendship between Katniss and Joanna with those those sequences there. And I think there is something to be said for with the scope and epic nature of the book. And again, the the natural trajectory and expansion of this story and and the arc that Katniss is on. She really is, you know. Again, we talked about the difference between the first two and this one, like You're in the arena in the first two, and now this is actually a full blown out war. So I think there is something to be said for the value of turning Katniss from a survivor into an actual trained soldier and showcasing that she has those merits and she's earned her place on this squad.
00:13:33
Speaker
But that being said, I do think for the film, I understand why they made the change. And i actually do think it works. And it's one of the more effective changes for the sake of the film. Because again we're talking we've been talking about like who is Katniss? What makes her who she is? So the the big change here is how she finds her way on Squad 451, if I'm not mistaken. There's like a sequence where she almost like stows away in like a hovercraft. And like that felt very Katniss to me. that like That's Katniss going rogue. You know, orders be damned. I'm going to do what I know I need to do. And I thought that just for the the purpose of the film, that felt like a very natural weight for her to find herself on the front and a part of the squad.
00:14:14
Speaker
Agreed. And in both cases, I feel like um eventually the 13 decides whatever she's doing, we have to make that look like it was our plan. And so they specifically say it in the film, but I think you kind of see it happen throughout this whole second half in the book more so where like she's our people are watching her. People are going to follow her. So we have to make sure whatever she's doing is our plan. But I think it also goes back to coin seeing her as a threat little bit to every time she makes a choice that people are following. That means that they're not if she doesn't put her forward as the leader, that makes her a threat.
00:14:53
Speaker
And they talk about that a bit here, too. Well, and J. Scott, your point about it being very in character for Katniss to stow away and just say, screw the rules, to do whatever I think is right. That is her final test at the end of the training montage is, you know we you know, her biggest weakness is not following orders, right? Oh, yeah. Okay. And so like that, it's kind of ah a show don't tell or a show versus tell ah situation where like,
00:15:23
Speaker
It still makes the point that her biggest weakness and her biggest you know flaw in the eyes of Coyne and District 13 and Snow is her inability to just play by the rules that ah others have laid out and her inability to follow orders. But like she the book shows us that she's smart enough to recognize that in herself. and see that they will use that against her and think of that as a weakness and she's playing the game and she can outsmart them to still get what she wants so um yeah and then losing the friendship with Joanna I think sucks because you know
00:16:01
Speaker
You skip all the way to the end when they're voting on doing a symbol ah symbolic Hunger Games, which is not really symbolic because they're still going to be dead kids at the end of it, but whatever.
00:16:11
Speaker
And Joanna being so ruthless, like, yeah, Snow has a granddaughter. Let's do it. Let's do it. um Without getting... to have that montage of her and Katniss talking and like Joanna saying you know this is what I went through this is the torture that I endured I heard you know these I heard PETA I heard Annie I heard all these other people suffering around me like I've been victimized over and over again by the Capitol and like why she is so crass and so willing to you know
00:16:42
Speaker
sentence other kids to the fate that she had to suffer through that feels a lot more shallow in the movie because we don't get that depth of her character and what she's been through in the book so i do miss that part but i mean we do not have time for a training montage in this film there's a lot to get to so i understand why they took it out but you know like you said there is some stuff lost when you don't include it so Side note, that's exactly why my grandpa told my dad that Hitler men don't do well in the military because we're not good at following orders. Of course, my dad had to prove that wrong, so he joined and did 26 years in the military, but but I know I would not have made it.
00:17:26
Speaker
I did my four, in and out.
00:17:31
Speaker
All right, so speaking of military, Katniss joins the Star Squad, and they are on a mission to the capital, um though this team is primarily intended for propaganda rather than combat. But then it turns out they go right into combat because of basically Katniss's lies. But um I think before we get into all that, somebody – okay, in the book – Somebody dies and PETA is sent to replace that person. i can't remember who dies or how. Leagues 2 is taken out pretty early by accidentally shooting a pod that lodges a metallic needle into her brain.
00:18:15
Speaker
Okay, so they send Peeta to replace her. Whereas in the movie, it's just like, here he is. he just meant For the propaganda. Here you go. Yeah, well and yeah and they they cover it by saying it's propaganda to show that like we saved him and he's on our side now. Right. um But...
00:18:35
Speaker
I mean, Katniss is so quick to clock it that, like, the only... And her conversation, again, with Boggs that I alluded to last week. Like, him and her both being on the same page of, like, the only thing left for you to do is die, babe. Like, you the the best thing you can do now for the revolution is be a martyr. and Peta's already primed to kill you, so of course let's send him out. like And you know he makes Boggs makes the comment, like if you're thoughts are not immediately, oh yes, I'll enjoy endorse Coyne as the next president, you're a threat to her and you don't follow orders and you do what you think is right and you're not beholden to her and hurt and what she wants. And all of these different reasons that Coyne has sent Peta here to set you up to die,
00:19:24
Speaker
for the revolution and also to get you out of the way as a political threat too. um And so, yeah, in the movie, it's, it's a little bit, it's definitely weak to just have him randomly show up. Cause I'm like, if Katniss had to go through all this training and like a psyche valve of like, you know, you face your biggest weakness to prove you're ready to go in the field, ah you know, Peter wasn't going to pass any of that stuff. So like, how did he get here? Except,
00:19:51
Speaker
coins direct order to put him out here um and so again just like Katniss is so so smart throughout all of these and she knows how the game is played between her snow coin like so she her you know clocking that immediately and knowing you know why this is happening um I love her character and Yeah, so this is when start things start to pick up. um This is when um we're... So we're going through the Capitol. There's all these pods.
00:20:22
Speaker
And that's why they're like, oh, we're back in the Hunger Games.
Boggs's Death and Its Aftermath
00:20:25
Speaker
Now, things don't really change. She doesn't start the lie until after Boggs is killed. And we're in that courtyard area. So he he gets his legs blown off. And then we get that black wave of tar, metal...
00:20:40
Speaker
vying things and we lose this is when pita reverts back and tries to kill her and they're trying to help her and he pushes mitchell into the black tar and then they make it inside um so there's there's a lot to unpack there before we move on to her lie about her secret mission
00:21:02
Speaker
I mean, obviously the death of of Boggs is devastating, um devastating in the book. And again, um the book are the the movie does a pretty good job of adapting that relationship to the best of its ability, even as you know we've debated whether or not there should be two parts or one extended part. You know, it's just one of the um inconveniences of of filmmaking versus the the book source material there. But again, with his his limited screen time, Mahershala Lee definitely makes you feel the impact of that death and how it works.
00:21:37
Speaker
how it weighs on on katniss there but also just a again like the book does such a great job of describing these sequences i had a pretty good job in my mind's eye of what everything looked like but i could not just uh i could not get the black goo as as menacing as it was portrayed in this film like it really like it felt like caustic and corrosive and dangerous Rip Boggs.
00:22:01
Speaker
Right. I've talked about it a lot last week, but yeah, just like having, you know, one of the very few, if not the only adult looking out for Katniss and wanting to actually take care of her and protect her die in her arms. Um,
00:22:16
Speaker
is terrible and then him you know his final words you know don't trust them do what you came here to do like he even in the very short time that he's known her he also kind of has that like hey mitch mind meld with her of like he knows why she's here or what she's gonna she he knows she's gonna try to sneak off and kill snow and he kind of like gives her his blessing of like, i know, i know what you're doing.
00:22:44
Speaker
I'm on board. Here's what you need. You know, here's the tool, the hollow, you know, for you to do it, you know, don't trust anybody, just get the job done. Um, I really appreciate that from him. And correct me if I'm wrong in the book, he says, he just says kill PETA, but in the movie he says kill PETA if you have to.
00:23:04
Speaker
I'm wrong think it have the same line of the book. I can't remember. Oh, maybe it was. and yeah I just thought there was more like... i For whatever reason, I found myself questioning his his motivations a little bit more in the book.
00:23:16
Speaker
Well, i think because he he and Katniss had that conversation knowing why Coyne sent him. Right, right, right, right. To me, it read like he wants to protect Katniss and he knows that Peta is unstable and will try to hurt her. And so in order for her hurt to guarantee her safety...
00:23:33
Speaker
PETA is an X factor that you can't control. And so, you know, it's safe for her safety. It's probably better to kill PETA. And so that's where I, where I kind of took it.
00:23:45
Speaker
And I think after this is right, right after this is when kind of you get that conversation with Peter where he's like saying, i don't know how to sort these memories out. And they say, well, ask, ask us for your squad now. And we start to actually feel like a unit of friends that are all going to work together to help each other through all this. And I liked, liked seeing them accept him as your part of this. Even if you've killed some of friends, we know that the Capitol has done this to you. We're going to help you through this. We're all going to get through this as best we can.
00:24:15
Speaker
Yeah, and we kind of glossed over it, but that's why in the in the book and in the movie a little bit, Haymitch... calls out Katniss. She's like, I don't want to do this. I don't want to talk to him. I don't want to, you know, engage with him. And he's like, it's not about you, girl. Like, stop being selfish. Like, he has been tortured and traumatized and he needs your help. And he, in the book especially, he poses the question to Katniss, like, if the roles were reversed, would PETA walk away from you and call you a mutt and abandon you? And like, leave you to figure it out on your own? And she's like, no, of course not. It's PETA.
00:24:50
Speaker
PETA, there's nothing that PETA wouldn't do for Katniss. And so like her It's selfishness, but it's selfishness to me. She's so focused on like the bigger mission and like the broader goals of the the rebellion, the revolution, that she's forgetting like what a in that moment, she kind of forgets, what are we doing this for? like this We're doing this for PETA because PETA was also a child forced to go into an arena and kill other children. and that has to end and I need to protect everything is supposed to be about protecting PETA and so if I need to make myself uncomfortable or I need to emotionally open up to him in front of other people and talk about the the day with the bread and the rain and I need to talk about how you're a painter you're a baker and your favorite color is sunset orange like if I need to do these things that are uncomfortable and hard for me I'm going to do that because you would do it for me PETA and PETA deserves that from me and so I i wish ah that like depth of the relationship between Hamish and Katniss and PETA had been delved into a little bit more in these films but can't have it all I guess
00:26:02
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. and And the book acknowledges how she has this moment of realization about how cold she's been to to Peter and Peter. You don't get that internal monologue. and And I agree with you, like just a quick exchange with Hamish would have made ah all the difference in the world. but you you slowly see her start to soften to him but prior to that she just comes across as a lot more harsh to me in the film than she does in the book because you don't get those you know internal insights and one thing in the book like she talks about like she mourns pita she has mourned that loss or started to mourn that loss in a way so to have him back kind of presents ah a whole new pain and you get the the line in the movie where she she calls him she's like i wouldn't be killing pita i'd be killing i'd be putting down a capital mutt which which i think jackson says well that kind of disqualifies you um for the position as as well um but yeah i i just feel like that was explored a little bit more uh in in the book but again when you have two parts and get to have some of those exchanges actually verbatim i'm glad you called out that exchange with like the color and the specificity like not bright orange like a soft orange, like a sunset. And he's like, thank you. Like, those are the moments that are just so rich.
00:27:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So after the black goo, they, um Jackson is asking for, Oh, God, what's that device called?
00:27:28
Speaker
The hollow. The hollow. Thank you. um They're asking for the hollow, but Boggs has already given it to Katniss and transferred the ownership to Katniss. And we have this kind of standoff where she's like, no, i'm i'm I'm on a secret mission to kill Snow. Jackson doesn't believe her, but Cressida steps in and says, no, it's we're here to film it, film the assassination.
00:27:50
Speaker
So they all accept the lie. They all know a lie, but they accept it and they continue on through the Capitol towards the mansion.
Underground Struggles and Finnick's Sacrifice
00:28:01
Speaker
Now I might be confusing things in the order of events here, but we...
00:28:07
Speaker
um We had the conversation that you guys were just talking about with Peeta, real or not real. And we have the hiding out in the apartment buildings and we have her um finding, they they go into a room and a capital citizen is there and she begins to scream but Katniss shoots her.
00:28:29
Speaker
Um, and then there's some other things that happen, I think, before we go into the sewers, but they're basically too exposed above ground. Um, and the building is exploded and they finally think that the Capitol thinks that this group of people have perished. So they go underground. Um, so they have a few days before they're discovered that they're, the bodies are not discovered, I guess I should say. and that's when the mutts are released in the sewers when the Capitol realizes they aren't They are not finding these bodies and they've realized they're down below.
00:29:03
Speaker
Yeah, just to backpedal a little bit, just to cover a scene that took place and kind of what you fast tracked us through. When they think that they've killed Katniss, like President Snow gets to get on screen and basically say, you know, she was she's not a a leader. She just had a small talent with a bow and arrow, but she wasn't a thinker. She wasn't a leader. and then president coin cuts in and i just kind of like i don't think it's in the book but i loved it in the movie where president coin repeats what snow said but he says that she was just a girl that was plucked from obscurity and she says picked and he's like i i said plucked and i noticed that too and the fact that he took umbrage with the fact that she changed his word choice i got a a good chuckle out of that
00:29:44
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I think it's fascinating because, you know, they talked about the best thing she can do is die and be a martyr, right?
00:29:55
Speaker
And then, like, she's presumed dead and that happens and she gets to see even in her death, she's still a pawn. for both of these sides of the same coin. Forgive the pun. I didn't mean to do that. But she's she's still a pawn for both sides to use to their best advantage. Snow gets to say that she's a nothing little girl with you know small talent. She's whatever. There's...
00:30:20
Speaker
you know there's ah the rebel, it's over, you know, she's gone and then Coyne gets to use her as a martyr and she was a hero and you have to, you know, fight with the Mockingjay, avenge the Mockingjay, you know, they killed her and so, you know,
00:30:37
Speaker
a lot of the story we're seeing her being part of the propaganda machine and making the propos and then to just kind of be removed from it and be on and just see it happening in front of you is like a little bit jarring almost because you've been behind the camera making it and now you can just get to see like the results without you it's like both again you know she just keeps being reminded that these are Sorry, these are two sides of the same coin. And both of these entities, the Capitol and District 13, are just as bad as the other and cannot be trusted. Right.
00:31:17
Speaker
Yeah, and it's it's actually just kind of dawning on me now, the the choice to name President Coin. Coin, I think you're you're right on the money. Again, no pun no pun intended there. But yeah, she is just another side of the coin. She is the flip side of the coin to Snow. yeah not only And she's also cold, hard, calculating cold, hard cash. So yeah nothing's lost.
00:31:37
Speaker
And that's a lot of what war creates is someone who's you know got that that perspective on things. And that's part of what leads to her decision in the end to say, this is not going to be any better than it has been if we have just another leader the same. um Back to them going to the sewers.
00:31:56
Speaker
Foggy's character, the A-Blocks, he worked down in the sewers is why they know to go that way. And that part I really liked because he is facing his trauma too. This way he was stuck down here for five years until his family could buy his freedom. And so him to be willing to go back in there to guide them through this this sewer was another brave moment of another one of their group. And I like seeing more people facing their fears to get through all this.
00:32:23
Speaker
Yeah, great point. Yeah. we're all going to, well, me and Sarah Day at least will probably cry talking about this, but you know, the, the months and you know, we lose, this is where like the cannon fodder really starts happening. We're losing team member after team member. And you know, this guy dies here, this guy dies here. And then, you know,
00:32:43
Speaker
the mutts are released and the way that Suzanne Collins describes it and like they have the rose smell of President Snow and so like that's so triggering for Katniss because he leaves the roses everywhere you know they're his symbol they're his marker that you know President Snow was here and he said or did something terrible um and we didn't talk about it in part one but when she goes back to district 12 after it's been bombed there's a brand new white rose in in her house so like somebody went in there after the district was bombed and put that there for her to find later um and the you know the mutts smell like roses now and they you know
00:33:27
Speaker
it's triggering for her and then they're all whispering her name. They're saying her name, Katniss, Katniss, Katniss. And it' so it's just this smorgasbord of triggering sensations and sounds and smells and sights. And they look, they're horrifying to look at um And Peeta, you know, kind of gives them, again, he gives them a little bit of warning to try and escape because he starts like joining in with them with his programming and the hijacking. And so many of the team, you know, Jackson, you know, sacrifices herself to give Katniss a little bit more time to get away. And then, you know, the scene is a little bit more drawn out visually in the film. But we see, you know, Katniss saves Peta, Katniss saves Finnick saves Katniss and Peta. And we're all trying to climb up the ladder. But.
00:34:18
Speaker
somebody has to be last and Finnick was the last one and so she has to kill him to just like she did in her very first hunger games to spare somebody a horrible death at the hands of the mutts that Snow created she has to kill her dear friend and it's so yeah heartbreaking and like you said Sare the music and then you come up I know you see his poster yeah immediately like it's the first poster on the thing and something else i want to comment on that i i think i saw it on a reddit comment um is fennec the same way he lived in the capital with unwanted hands all over him goodness yeah i know i know sorry jordan i know i'd appreciate that actually and horrible yeah yeah it's terrible and again like It's another person who actually loved Katniss and actually wanted to protect her, who she is, gone, taken from her. And she has to, again, look them in the eyes and hear his screams and watch him. And, like, it's just more nightmare fodder for her. on top of everything else that she's been through, everything that's going to happen through the end of this book, because, hey, it's not over yet. We still got some more trauma for her.
00:35:37
Speaker
How much more trauma can we dump onto this 17-year-old kid? Let's keep trying, you know? um And again, like Sam Claflin, like just you can't even see him because there's so many mutts on top of him ripping him apart. But his screams are so heartbreaking. And you can hear you can hear it like in his soul and in Katniss. And she's so dead inside. She's like, here we go again. Somebody else that I love taken from me. Nightlock, nightlock, nightlock and, but you know, blow it up.
00:36:09
Speaker
ah It's. It's so hard to watch and to go through. um
00:36:17
Speaker
Finnick is such a tragic, tragic character. And we kind of have talked about it before. Not there at all. It's not. We've kind of talked about it before. Now that Suzanne Collins is going back and doing these prequels, you know, maybe if she does a third prequel, that it would be Finnick's games and his story. And, you know, how timely would it be, you know, with ah the heinous Epstein files and all of that, like to... have because Suzanne Collins has this way of taking these real world, you know, concepts, propaganda and war and, you know, war crimes and all of these things and like kind of making them approachable for audiences to kind of think through and dissect, you know, in in this fictional realm, you know, talking about
00:37:05
Speaker
what it means to be a victim of an operation like that and to be part of that and like how do we handle as a society, you know, how do we handle justice for those victims and what do we do to the people who have harmed them? you know, how do we move forward as a society knowing that these things have happened, whether you knew about it or didn't know about it now that it's been exposed, now that Finnick has gone on the air and said, this is what happened to me, this is my story.
00:37:33
Speaker
you know what does that look like? and So I think that would be a really timely novel for her to put out and ah ah probably a very, very difficult film to get made, especially with so much like Hollywood connection to that kind of stuff. But um annie's got a lot of story that can be told with her and him and how that whole uh relationship has played out over time with him being that uh uh capital whore and her still loving him through that and how that all um how they handle all that yeah there's a lot of a lot of lot of stuff that could make story out of there 100 percent
00:38:13
Speaker
Before we get up to the streets of the Capitol and we see Phoenix poster, we are hit with peacekeepers. We're hit with those like saws coming out of the ground and we're hit with those beams of light. And this is like, there's a lot of music happening here. There's not a lot of dialogue. It's kind of going like scene to scene to scene. It's very emotional and chaotic and, um,
00:38:34
Speaker
We don't get to breathe until they get to breathe in Tigress's shop. But we lose a couple more people in the scene, particularly in that light. I remember that's like a description from the book that's very vivid to me. And um I thought anyway, the movie did a really good job showing all these really terrible things.
00:38:54
Speaker
but um pods happening to them and when we finally get to breathe with them and tiger's should shop it's just devastating i wish they had kept that particular pod of the light the same um because the way it's described in the book is he like melt melt like indiana jones style like raiders of the lost art style like i wish they would have kept that because for him to just kind of like blow up to cubes yeah yeah it just like it just because like obviously it is fake but like it just looks so fake and it's like how do you change the atoms of his body from flesh to hard cubes and it's like i get that it's a callback to like the training montage and catching fire where she's shooting the arrows and they explode into cubes like I understand that like visual thread but I'm like it it took me out of because like it's just so like the physics just are not physicking to me it doesn't make any sense versus like the light and heat having it be like you know a heat lamp and literally melting the flesh off his bones like obviously i think they made the change because that is such a gruesome thing to depict yeah i don't know that i would have wanted to see that and they also take time to really like they're paused and they're like what is happening yeah and like she's like is he screaming like he's frozen and then they just see it melt off and like yeah we didn't have the time for that in this particular scene because we're they're running through and they're getting you know bombarded by all of this stuff and I don't know personally that I would have wanted to sit and watch that happen because it was, it's brutal to listen to that in the book.
00:40:32
Speaker
Yeah. it It's the other one just is so weird and fake that I just, I'm like, I, you took me out of it. Like I'm trying to be emotional about all the deaths that are happening and like the intensity of the escape. Like I'm trying to, I'm trying to say with you guys, but like, that's just, that's too far for me. My suspension of disbelief can only suspend so far. Like that just took me out of it. Yeah. The part that I struggle with with this whole film was how long or how much work it would take to get all these pods installed in the Capitol. I don't see the infrastructure of the Capitol being able to handle this all across this part of the city and make everything look normal and then have all this stuff pop up in the middle of their city in the time frame they had to do it. im like They might have built it in.
00:41:18
Speaker
like They never said that they were. Yeah. As they're building the Capitol, they probably built these things in. how many capital ter civilians were the victim of accidental triggers that were just covered up by caesar flippant i wonder if they like could because i don't know when you know we get we get snow's story um but and i haven't seen the film so i don't i haven't visualized what the capital looks like in his story but um you know, like, um, yeah, about, yeah. The ballad of songbirds and snakes. Um, but like how we got to this point, like, and why the Capitol was built and like, who, like they, they, like, they probably did create the Capitol with these security, um, could be in place prepared for some sort of revolution. and then they talk about letting the game makers do all this now. And so I think that's where I think a lot of this came from the game makers doing this now now and i know yeah you're right i risk the time for all this yeah i have all this they have all this figured out for the the hunger game things but those take years to build up yeah each of these things so the fact that the city has all this installed i was like yeah i i've i work around construction stuff with my jobs this doesn't happen this quickly this is you will and hermit in the in the beginning of valid like he talks about how like he basically survived you know the dark days and the the
00:42:42
Speaker
Civil war between the district the first civil war between the districts in the capital and how everything is been destroyed and they're living in rubble and like destroyed building so like they have to rebuild the city anyways and so the rebuilding of the city i'm thinking coincides with snow's rise to power and so as they're rebuilding the city and as he's coming to power and creating the Hunger Games that we are familiar with in 74 and 75 and that we see in these books, he's like, well, you know, just make a couple of extras and throw them under the ground in this area and make a couple extra, and you know, and then it also talks in this book in Mockingjay how, you know, there are a lot of pods around the president's mansion, but because he's calling the refugees there, they can manually turn them off, right? And so if you just manually have them off all the time, and then you are switching them on now that the capital is under attack, like all,
00:43:35
Speaker
that that never I never even thought about it. It didn't bother me. it means so Maybe there's like an inventory of these things that they can throw into the games and they have all these things. And maybe it's things that they've seen in the games in the past. And so like it's already like they have all these things. They just have to take it and put it in the capital. So like it might have been the game makers, but like they already had this inventory of these pods that they can use. And they just, instead of putting it into the game, they were putting it into the city.
00:44:03
Speaker
I can get past it. Just throw me off a little bit. Sure. I like the i like the conversation. it's it's spun off here and and all all the world building and I accept all the headcanon. It's good stuff. But I wanted to dial back again just to kind of talk about it from like a filmmaking perspective. I agree. Someone used like the language, like we don't get to catch our breath until they do. So yeah, it's it's very thrilling in that sense. but And I do agree that I think this is as thrilling as it is. There are a couple of like instances where I think you start to see the effects and the strain of the budget just a little bit. like Even with like the meat grinder, it looks a little too shiny. like um you know I can tell that's computer generated. but
00:44:40
Speaker
it's it's well done enough that it doesn't you know suspend my disbelief or take me out of it. But the praise I do want to give to it, and I meant to bring it up during the the mutt sequence too, but I think beginning with the mutt sequence through this whole entire extended sequence, it's shot really like the choreography, like the placement of the action, where they choose to put the camera, where we're tracking the characters. A lot of times in action movies, it can feel like frenetic in a bad way.
00:45:04
Speaker
Like sometimes you use that, you know, to captivate that sense of like chaos and confusion and the fog of war. But other times it's you can tell they just weren't talented enough to, you know, make sense of the the action sequence. And you're kind of like, how did that person end up here? How did they end up over there? What was the sequence of event? Where did I miss something along I cannot say that at all about this extended action sequence. It's it's very thoughtfully and methodically laid out and and visually captured.
00:45:34
Speaker
Yeah. One other thing that I forgot to mention in the sequence of events is the moment between Peeta and Katniss. And it's right after the light beams and he's like struggling to stay sane for lack of a better word. And she kneels down, she gives him a kiss and she's like, stay with me. And that pulls him back. And he's like, always. um And it's just, it's a short little moment, but really, really impactful.
00:45:58
Speaker
Good call. Well, and Katniss, it's at the beginning of a chapter. i don't think it's happening during the sequence, but at some point in the book, she recalls that scene on the train before catching fire, before the quarter quell games, where she asked Peeta, will you stay with me?
00:46:16
Speaker
And he doesn't in the movie, he just says always, you know, right there. But in the book and in her memory in this book, she's like, I think I was asleep, but I feel like he said always he waited until she he thought she was asleep before he said that. And so I liked how it got brought back here. We're like now like we can make that.
00:46:37
Speaker
we're both fully awake, fully in this moment. And I can say, stay with me. And you can say always, and we're still choosing to be with each other and choosing to protect each other. And, you know, we are, they are each other's anchor to reality in this moment. And the anchor of what are we fighting for in this moment? Because everything is just gone to shit. Finnick is dead.
00:47:02
Speaker
PETA literally losing his mind, but, you're Katniss and I'm Peta and we stay together and we protect each other. And that is enough to keep them going and keep them where they need to be mentally and to keep them moving forward physically in this moment. So I really like that callback. And what you're bringing to mind now that was kind of lost on me right up until this point, but there's the in the propaganda in part one, there's that you know motif of like,
00:47:30
Speaker
this is what they do what do they do we know what the capital does and now she gets to kind of say like what do we do what do we do for each other pita we keep each other alive we protect each other that's what we do so we know who we are we know who they are so just kind of owning that's like we've been talking so much about like her actions are how we know who she is this is kind of her coming into her own and her owning and knowing who she is and what makes her who she is so very uh empowering and inspiring moment for sure So we've reached Tigress'
The Bombing and Katniss's Realization
00:47:57
Speaker
shop. They have a moment to breathe, figure out what's going on
00:48:02
Speaker
Katniss apologizes and admits to her lie. And they're all like, yeah, we all knew. You're not a very good liar, Katniss. You know, we're all here for the same reason.
00:48:14
Speaker
And then they, you know, they pass themselves up and they dress themselves up in capital attire because Snow has made the announcement that anybody within this perimeter can make their way to his house for protection. So Katniss and Gail get dressed up to go.
00:48:35
Speaker
Peta and Katniss say a goodbye. and that's when we hit the streets and we are, we see all the kids, they're pulling the kids from their families saying the kids can enter first, they get bombed. And then she sees Prim, the second wave of bombs explodes. And then we kind of cut to black there.
00:48:57
Speaker
Him calling everybody to the mansion the whole time I like saw was, oh, he wants human shields. He knows they're getting close. He wants all these people around him so he can hide amongst them and have children as his shields. So I don't doubt he's willing to kill the children for that purpose, but that's what makes this so muddled as he's trying to convince her it was Coyne in the end here and that it was not him. it's They're both willing to do it. and They both needed to die. Yeah.
00:49:26
Speaker
Yeah, well, and I think there's a difference in this moment for him, not obviously not defending him, but like there's a difference between using the children as human shields and being willing to sacrifice them for his own safety, which is evil, obviously. But then for the other side of that coin, being willing to kill children, actively kill, be the one, you know, ordering the bomb drop and killing them, you know,
00:49:54
Speaker
to me is they're equally evil. Like the children should not be involved in this at all. But, you know, obviously this, this version of the world doesn't care about the lives of children. Otherwise the hunger games wouldn't exist in the first place. Right. So, you know, again, like we said earlier, we made the pun earlier, you know, two sides of the same coin, you know,
00:50:15
Speaker
13 and coin are willing to kill children and snow is willing to use them as human shields. And then you have that mass casualty in it. But I appreciate again, like speaking to Katniss's character and her intelligence throughout and her understanding of the game through all of this, she immediately clocks that snow is doing it as human shields. She says that in the book in her inner monologue. Like, oh, he's obviously he's doing it for human shields. And she also, when she sees Prim come out, you know she's like, is that her and her little ducktail? And then I forget if it's before the bombing or after, but she thinks her way through it. And she's like, Prim was 14 and she wasn't fully trained as a doctor. There's no way that Prim should have been there unless Coyne personally allowed it.
00:51:05
Speaker
She may not have even given the order to send Prim out, but she had to have signed off to allow a a child with no military field training to be in that situation. yeah i think that's after Snow says it to her because she's yeah walking through that whole thought process and she's yeah like, you know what? Yeah, Coyne had to have approved that.
00:51:24
Speaker
Yeah. So she, you know, and again, in the movie and in the book, Snow says, we promise not to lie to each other, Katniss. Yeah. And he has been true to his word. He has never once lied to her during their one-on-one conversations. He has always been honest with her as twisted and evil as his honesty is. It's been honest. And so when he says like, I didn't, why would I, you know, i was I, why would I care about it? I would have used it to get the hell out of it. Exactly. yeah Exactly. And so, you know, it just, he always just says the right thing, just enough of, of the truth. to get her thinking and realizing for herself, you know, again, oh my God, coin is just as bad.
00:52:10
Speaker
She's, and then the final, you know, nail and coins own coffin that she didn't even know she was building for herself is, you know, let's do a symbolic hunger games. And for Katniss, she's like, okay, you're done. That's it. Like between prim and yeah, between prim and all the other stuff that you've done and the way that you've used me as a propaganda tool, like all of these things, like and now you want to relive the past we've literally just fought a war to end the hunger games you know in part to end the hunger games and the the that symbol of capital oppression and now you want to go back and do the same thing again you're done um and so katniss you know katniss is so so smart and her intelligence her like battlefield calculus that she's able to do and like i mentioned earlier you know counting the bodies and what happened like and processing that in the moment, like she still is able to use that intelligence and process, you know, and work through all the different options, even after the fact, she's thinking through these things to make her her decisions. And it's just so, so well written for her to to think through these things.
00:53:19
Speaker
Any other thoughts before we move on to kind of the assassination or the execution, I should say?
Katniss's Final Choice and Post-War Life
00:53:28
Speaker
She gets that scene with Gail where they talk about, you know, the bombs because we get the scene in the book in the movie of him talking to BD about it and, you know, luring people in to have a second bomb. And, you know, they've had their disagreement about it already. And obviously Gail is not the one calling the shots. He's with her in the capital. Right. He gets taken by peacekeepers. Right. she doesn't shoot him the way that she shoots Finnick or, you know, exactly. He kills Finnick. He, he's, a call yes. yes um
00:54:00
Speaker
You know, and so she, but she knows that it was his plan. So she said, was it your bombs? And he's like, I don't like, I don't know. I was with you. i was, but you know, and he finally, you know, kind of gives up on the idea of being with her. Cause he's like, you're never going, we're never going to know for sure. you know,
00:54:19
Speaker
how it happened or how it went down or if it was the capital plane or our plane but you knew that that was an idea that I had and you're always going to associate me with the death of your sister and so like it it's over from here which I'm like, well, at least he's smart enough to recognize that, even if it's still so, so selfish for him. I don't think he ever even apologizes that Prim died and that he you know may or may not have said have had something to do with it. He doesn't ever say, I'm sorry. does acknowledge that he was supposed to keep Prim safe, and he failed with that. And I can't remember if he actually said the words, I'm sorry, in the movies, but I know he says that. He's always thinking...
00:55:00
Speaker
Yeah. um I was supposed to do this and I failed. It was my, yeah's I'm bad, not your, yeah I'm sorry for you. Yeah. Yeah. And in the book, he says the one thing I had going for me was that I could protect your family. And I, and I pretty sure in the movie, he says I was supposed to protect your family and I'm very sorry I couldn't do that, but it's never specified to like prim. He doesn't really take any ownership. He does acknowledge you're failing to protect, but yeah, it's, it's it's pretty,
00:55:26
Speaker
half-hearted in the great there's a lot of acceptance there for both of them i think just you know the goodbye gail has so much finality to it yeah yeah so she's asked to come to this roundtable discussion it's all the remaining victors and they're like that's all that's left and they say this is in the book they say both the capital and 13 you know killed victors so there's a handful of them left and this is when coin says i want to vote i'm taking i'm the interim president we're going to do a vote um and they specifically say how long are you going to be president and she's like i don't know there's lots of things to be done and then we'll once everything has calmed down then we'll have a vote um but right now we're going to vote on a hunger games and joanna and emma bar and abaria say no
00:56:17
Speaker
I mean, I say yes, I'm sorry. Beattie, Annie, and Peeta say no. Who's the other yes? Hamich and Katniss. But it's like it comes down to Hamich and Katniss. But there's Annie, Beattie, Peeta, and then there's only Joanna and Annabaria that say yes.
00:56:36
Speaker
yeah Is there another yes? Does Coyne get a vote? no No. I just thought it was tied before it got to Hamish and Katniss. I think she said you need like a quorum of four.
00:56:49
Speaker
And nobody can abstain. So once they'd reach four yeses, that kind of sealed the deal. Got it. Okay. So, and then this is when we have a really good connection between Hamish and Katniss. And in the book, we say this is... When we find out how well he really knows me. And I thought the acting between these two was really good because he she votes yes for Prim.
00:57:10
Speaker
And then he looks at her for a moment. and then he's like, I'm with the Mockingjay. So you You really see him, Woody, like calculating, like, what is she thinking? Why is she voting yes? Like she wouldn't. um And like, I don't know if he actually believes that she is going to go kill Coyne, but he knows that she has something up her sleeve.
00:57:32
Speaker
Yeah, he knows that she has a plan. He knows her well enough to know that if she's saying she's doing something for Prim, if it's for Prim, but it also doesn't align with her values and how hard she's fought to end the Hunger Games, he knows she's got some sort of plan. And so he has enough faith in her, just like she has faith in him during Hunger Games, during those games the 75th games where she's I just I'm gonna trust whatever Hamish says and Hamish returns that trust if Katniss is doing this I trust her um'm gonna go with whatever she says um and again just I love their relationship and it's even harder after reading Sunrise on the Reaping and knowing that he was friends with her dad and now he's a father figure it's there's a lot I was gonna mention earlier like
00:58:24
Speaker
looking back at the trilogy, you think Catching Fire has so much of his story because they're looking at his games, but there's so much in this book that you'll find, you'll see in the sunrise and the reaping too. Like they say, um he mentions that he, he had a sweetheart and a family and that's what happens when you, you know, when you win the games is they kill everybody you love. And like, we're going to see that in sunrise on the reaping.
00:58:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. no
00:58:54
Speaker
so i I know like reading this as a kid and watching this as a kid, I didn't under all this nuance that we're talking about, about, you know, the same side of the coin and 13 is just as bad as the capital. Like that all went over my head. I was probably 12 or 13 when i read these for the first time. 2014, 2015, was I still, know,
00:59:18
Speaker
years old when the movies came out and i still you know hadn't kind of opened my eyes to like the connections to like the real world like politics and propaganda and all of that kind of stuff so a lot of this went over my head and I never i was like why didn't she why did she kill coin like I don't I didn't understand it and it didn't make sense to me like snow's literally right there like she makes a comment like he's literally 10 yards in front of me like for an arrow like that's and he's not moving like It's such an easy shot. And I'm like, I know she didn't miss. Like, I know she did it on purpose, but like, I didn't get why she did And so it's been really valuable, really eyeopening to reread and rewatch, you know, 10 plus years later and be like, that's why. Because anybody who can say that the Hunger Games is a good solution to our problems has to go, you know, for, cause it doesn't matter. And the point that PETA makes at that round table is like, this is how we got here in the first place because somebody, some other people sat around the table and voted to put children's lives on the line to atone for
01:00:24
Speaker
sins of adults. And like, that's how we got here. We can't repeat history. We can't repeat this cycle and keep it going. That's just going produce more hatred and animosity between the Capitol and the districts. We like, it has to end at some point. We have to break the cycle. And like now as an adult going through this, I'm like, okay, I understand now she's breaking the cycle. She, instead of, you know, taking the easy path of giving the people the blood that they want of snow and this figurehead who did all of these terrible things.
01:00:55
Speaker
We're going to get rid of coin this actual, yeah you know, another evil mastermind taking advantage of the situation for her own power, for her own gain. And I'm not going to be a part of repeating that cycle and allowing these atrocities to continue, you know, as like we've been talking about.
01:01:13
Speaker
I'm Katniss Everdeen. I'm going to do what's right. I know what's right. I know who I am, what I stand for, what I fight for, what I am willing to kill for. And I'm not i'm not going to be a part of this this new world. We're supposed to be a better world. And you want to keep these old, terrible habits. I'm not doing that. We're going to end it here and now.
01:01:33
Speaker
Yeah, so she kills Coyne and the remainder of the book and the movie. We do get a lot cut out from the book of her waiting and wondering what's happening and thoughts of suicide. But she ends up going back to 12.
01:01:49
Speaker
She is trying to live life in the best way she can with all this trauma. Well, she's actually not, actually. Not until other people start arriving, but Haymitch is sent there to watch her. And I forget the name, um but it's the old woman from District 12. Greasy sigh, you say that. Cooking her meals, and making sure she eats. And I think she has a granddaughter there. And then the cat comes back and she breaks down with the cat.
01:02:19
Speaker
And then Peta comes and he's planting primrose plants. um And then they have a moment and, you know, it's the you love me, real or not real, real. um And then we flash forward several years and they have two children and Paylor had become president. And so now they're living in a time of peace um and peace.
01:02:43
Speaker
So Paylor was legitimately, Paylor was legitimately voted in and it says in the book, it's been at least 15 years from, with Her getting back to 12 before she was willing to have kids. I do remember growing up, there was a lot of discourse about Katniss making the decision to have kids. And like, she was so traumatized, like there's no way she would have had kids and blah, And like, she never, she never talks about her future. She never plans for a future. She assumes she's going to die in the Hunger Games. And then she survives the Hunger Games. And then she assumes she's going to die in the Quarter Quell because she's determined to save PETA. And then she survives that. And then she thinks she's going to be executed because she killed coin. And then she survives that. And it's only 15 years later after years of
01:03:33
Speaker
healing and processing and growing and evolving where she tells Peta, okay, fine. Like the world is safe enough that I will bring children into it. Like she, she makes some comment back in the first hunger games about like, I would never say it's a full circle moment because she tells Gail, like, I'm not going to have kids. Like why would I have kids just to put them into the hunger games? Right. But now that she has sacrificed so much to create a world where the hunger games don't exist,
01:04:02
Speaker
Like she's now she's safe, she's at rest, and now she can, you know, have a ah life with PETA and have children and let them grow up in a better world. And so it's I, I've always loved that ending because she, you know, went through so much and she gets to tell her kids, you know, yeah, I went through all these horrible things and these terrible things did happen. But i did that It's over now. There are worse games to play. and now I spend my time thinking about all the wonderful things that I've seen people do and all the good deeds that people around me have did and have done. and
01:04:41
Speaker
that that's the life that I fought and sacrificed for so that you, my children, can have this better world to be a part of. And I i really, really love that ending. hmm. The book goes into her fears of while she was pregnant with the first one and a little less so in the second one. Um, and I thought that was really, ah shows that she still had those trepidations, but she knew that PETA wanted kids and I think it was healing for her in the long run to get to raise kids without the hungry. Yeah.
01:05:10
Speaker
Yeah. And there is just a real bittersweet nature to this epilogue, which I really appreciate as well, because while she has had to undergo so much healing and self-work to develop these coping mechanisms to to still deal with it, like that's the thing, like as much healing as there has been, it's never going to leave her. And it brings up uh we we didn't highlight on it but when she was talking to gail um about how he's never taken a life and she can't describe to him how they never leave you like once you've taken that life they stay with you forever she's still dealing with that that's why she still has the nightmares um she has ways to like like you said she's got that list of every good things that she's got that's what brings her out of it but this peace this beautiful moment a future where children can have a a carefree a
01:05:57
Speaker
idyllic childhood like that does not come without the sacrifices and the cost um so in that sense i thought it was kind of like the the perfect uh button button on this thing just a a moment of reflection a certain air of optimism while kind of reflecting on all that that was required to get there yeah
01:06:23
Speaker
any other final thoughts on mockingjay part two the letter from Annie was also a good little button up for you know talking about her ah son and how they remember Finnick and how he's growing that was they talk about where Gail ends up in the in two as a captain he's never came back to 12 there's a few other little things in that ending but yeah and that's great think we're it's a good ending for this movie that you know had its moments up and down but I liked the way they did this in the end
01:06:58
Speaker
Well, Chris, at the mention of letters that did bring to mind Plutarch's letter, which obviously, you know, Philip Seymour Hoffman passed away 2014 while these films were, you know, being shot and released. So they kind of had to change things up a little bit there. But having Woody and Hamish to that um to that end kind of be able to fill that role in a little bit, I thought was was really well done and um a nice send off for the character and and the actor that portrayed him.
01:07:29
Speaker
It was a ah clever way to still, because ah everything that he says in that letter is important information and valuable to the story and ah the conversation that he gets to have with Katniss.
01:07:42
Speaker
So it was a good way to still get that those points across and tell tell those things to the audience and still and navigate the loss of of Philip Hoffman.
01:07:54
Speaker
Do we want to talk about bookmarked moments?
01:07:58
Speaker
You know, one of the best visualizations from the book that I don't think made it into the film that liked was right when we got into um District 13, which was the beginning when they're going down to see Beattie and they have a whole scene with the hummingbird. That's where the traps the idea starts to get tosed around. That hummingbird moment was just so ah I could see to my mind's eye the way that he's studying these birds to see how could you, you know, trap this or how could you, you know, he's, he's studying the way nature moves in order to create what he creates. And I just thought that was a really cool moment. i don't know if it's a favorite moment, but it was a really cool one that stuck with me that I don't think made it into the film. Yeah.
01:08:40
Speaker
Yeah. One moment that we haven't really given a ton of time to, and it's it's understandably so, but I think works both in the movie as well as the book, is just the the role that Buttercup kind of serves, like bookending either side of the story, like the fact that she rescues Buttercup for Prim, but then they've always kind of had this dis disdain, a begrudging acceptance of each other, but then they really get to have this catharsis where as she's like wailing,
01:09:08
Speaker
buttercup whales as well and they they really just get to console each other even though they're different species there's just this like you know coming together and and breaking of the hearts but healing back together so yeah i just i'm a cat person so i i really appreciated um that aspect of it too so Yeah, I love the Buttercup storyline. I really do.
01:09:29
Speaker
i did I wanted to look through the credits, though. I wanted to look through credits to make sure no animals were harmed in the making of this because when she's throwing the stuff at him on the sink, I was like, I know this is a product of like special effects, but the way that cat is not like moving at all is frightening.
01:09:45
Speaker
It almost shows the abuse that she's... had towards the cat in the past and the fact that the cat has been through so much as well. True that. like I'll take whatever you give me. i loved my love for him, but i know we that was the relationship they always had was she wasn't out with me and the cat.
01:10:03
Speaker
Well, we kind of skipped over, but that that cat survived the bombing of District 12. And that's part of why Prim makes such an effort to go back and save him ah during the bombing of 13. She's like, I have already left him behind once. I can't live with myself if leave him behind again. um So, yeah.
01:10:21
Speaker
Buttercup's been through a lot. Buttercup has seen some shit. So he... definitely he deserves the happy ending and it we don't really get to see it in the film but katniss talks about how like you know after she has this moment of you know screaming at him and he's you know crying back at her and they're both mourning the loss of grim she's like buttercup and i become friends and i give him all of my bacon um and they get to you know bond and like forge a new relationship with each other you know afterwards and Similar to the Peta relationship. they They weren't on the perfect terms, but they all learned to become a family together and how to get past their trauma together.
01:11:02
Speaker
Yeah. Good comparison. Yeah.
01:11:08
Speaker
All right. Well, everybody, thanks for joining us. J. Scottie, thanks for coming yet again for another Hunger Games conversation. For sure. Again, the movies are coming back to theaters in September. So let us know if you're going to get your tickets. I'm probably going to go see...
01:11:26
Speaker
ballad in theaters because I haven't seen that one yet so it'll be nice to actually get to see it on the big screen like I've seen every other one um so and we will be covering Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes on the podcast before Sunrise on the Reaping premieres in November so stay tuned and keep watching
01:11:48
Speaker
that's a wrap for this week's episode of Bookwatch we hope you enjoy diving into the world of page to screen adaptations with us If you love this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a rating and review wherever you listen, and share it with a fellow book and movie lover.
01:12:03
Speaker
If you prefer to watch along, you can check out the show on YouTube, youtube.com slash at bookwatchpodcast. You can follow the show on Instagram at bookwatchpodcast, and you can follow me, Sarah Day, on Instagram at captain.mcdee. That's M-C-D-E-E.
01:12:20
Speaker
And you can follow me, Jordan, on Instagram at JJ Corrito. That's C-A-R-R-I-D-O. And you can follow me, Chris, at CyborgNight404. That's night with a K. You can also join the conversation in the Book Watch Lounge on Facebook at facebook.com slash groups slash Book Watch Lounge.
01:12:42
Speaker
If you'd like to support the podcast, you can join the Patreon at patreon.com bookwatchpodcast. Cheers start at only $4 a month, and we would love to have you over there. Have a favorite adaptation you'd like us to cover, or a book you think deserves a screen adaptation, or just want to let us know of any feedback, send us an email at bookwatchpodcasts at gmail.com.
01:13:04
Speaker
Until next time, keep reading, keep watching, and we'll see you next week.