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What if Kurt Cobain Never Died?
20 Plays1 year ago
Rock n Roll What Ifs by Armchair Rockstar Episode 1: What if Kurt Cobain Didn’t Die? What if Kurt Cobain didn’t die in 1994? Would Nirvana still be together? What about Dave Grohl and the Foo Fighters? Would they even still play grunge?
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Rock n Roll What Ifs is the latest project from the crew at ArmchairRockstar.com. In each episode, some combination of staff and special guests gather together to discuss the most unlikely of hypothetical questions. Basically, this is our Friday night hangout among likeminded friends where we dive deep into the recesses of rock n roll impossibilities.
Visit Armchair Rockstar, where rock n roll is still alive and well: https://armchairrockstar.com/ Have a suggestion for a future discussion, let us know!
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Rock and Roll What ifs' Podcast
00:00:06
Speaker
Hey, what's up, everybody? Corey Knowles here from Armchair Rockstar. We're super stoked today to introduce to you the first episode of our latest project here on the site, Rock and Roll What ifs. Myself, Armchair Rockstar staff, along with special guests along the way as we do these, will basically come on here and we'll chat and debate one wild, hypothetical Rock and Roll quest.
00:00:34
Speaker
Today, we decided to go straight for the low-hanging fruit. And we're going to discuss, what if Hercoban didn't die? Could be interesting. First, though, before we get into that, let's walk around the group and say hi. I'm Corey, first.
00:00:53
Speaker
I have been involved with Armchair Rockstar since we came up with an idea in a hotel room in Vegas one year. And that was probably 2018. And it's been live and dead and live and dead and live and dead. And now we are live again and hopefully doing more than we've ever done before. And we're trying to have a lot of fun with it. So I'd like to introduce you to a part of Shane Brisson. Shane, say hello.
00:01:19
Speaker
Hey everybody, I'm Shane, also known as the other guy if you visit the website. Um, like Corey said, I've been involved since 2021. It's been fits and starts since then. And we finally got our shit together and here we are, uh, presenting to you our first podcast websites live and we're trying to improve it every day. So have us a visit, pass it over to Aaron.
00:01:45
Speaker
So Corey, yeah, I think some of the best and the worst ideas have been created in Vegas hotel rooms. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And at the time, I'm not sure whether it's the best or the worst. You know, the whole idea was to be we wanted to get into this whole we wanted to cover music here, which is a big thing. It's a big part of it was a big part of all of our lives. It's a big part of every one of us. But along the way, we also found ourselves kind of having a passion for
00:02:14
Speaker
young rock and roll that isn't getting out there. And old rock and roll, the stuff we listen to every day, the stuff we talk about and bounce back and forth through each other in text chats. And I felt like why not share that with everybody? And you fellows have been a big part of that.
00:02:33
Speaker
Yes, sir. So what's up? What's up? What's up, guys? I'm Aaron. I am an amateur musician. I am a professional drinker. And I am an adequate music journalist. Happy to be here. That's what we shoot for here. Adequacy. We're not after the best. We can't afford the best. So what we serve with is we all, we try to be okay.
00:03:01
Speaker
That's always my standard.
What if Kurt Cobain Had Lived?
00:03:04
Speaker
So let's dive into this Kurt thing here. Kurt died. Oh, what was it? 1994 Seattle, suicide. We'll get into that a little later, maybe. I guess my first question is, would Nirvana still be playing or would they have fizzled out by now? I mean, would they still be a thing at all?
00:03:30
Speaker
You guys have any thoughts? It's a great question. So first of all, I think Dave Grohl was an ambitious guy from the beginning. Nirvana was the biggest band he could get in at the time. He was already a professional musician. I'm sure he was writing songs.
00:03:51
Speaker
in the back of the van or wherever the back of the plane, wherever they were. And he was gearing up to do Foo Fighters no matter what. I'm not sure he would have stayed there forever. And I don't know that Nirvana would have the same success without him. That's a good question. You know, I feel like, you know, much like you said about Dave, Dave.
00:04:14
Speaker
the U.S.
00:04:32
Speaker
I mean, here's, here's how I like to think is maybe they would have seen a resurgence with some of these newer punk bands coming up. You know, you, you talked with bad nerves. You got to see that show Corey. Um, maybe they would have seen a resurgence, but I a hundred percent agree with Aaron about Dave Grohl was an ambitious guy. I don't know his background like Aaron does, but.
00:04:58
Speaker
We'll talk about it in a bit, the projects he got involved in. And I remember it happened. Yeah. You know, Dave Grohl was going to become a rock and roll front man regardless. I tend to agree with that. It was just, it was in his DNA and Nirvana was in, it was a little different at the time of Kurt's death. You know, it's my understanding they had been
00:05:26
Speaker
I won't say incommunicado, but he'd cancel the tour. There's been this overdose that Aaron, you and I talked about leading up to this conversation here. And, you know, where they, they may have been on the verge of a split already at that point. You know, sometimes those bands that come out of nowhere and they blow up that quick and that hard quite often, they, as loud as hard as they start, you know. But,
00:05:54
Speaker
I mean, absolutely, I think by now, some 30 years later, we'd have absolutely seen Nirvana play again at some point. I think they would have been a band for the contiguous 30 years that have passed since then. I don't know. I feel like Dave would have wanted to go off and do his own thing. I even feel like Kurt might have wanted to do his own thing, because Kurt had some interesting side interests.
00:06:23
Speaker
Well, that's a good segue, Corey, because would they have stayed focused on grunge or would they have branched out as Nirvana? Would they have explored a different genre? They had the MTV Unplugged sessions. Would they have Pearl Jam? Didn't Pearl Jam also do some acoustic stuff?
00:06:44
Speaker
So to you guys, would they have branched out or stayed true to grunge? Well, Aaron's ready for that question. So, I mean, I know I'm taking it away from Kurt, who is supposed to be the main focus here, but you have to talk about Pat Smear, right? When he joined the band, he added a new dynamic. And I know I saw in some interview where Kurt was saying he was so happy that he didn't have to
00:07:15
Speaker
do the lead guitar and be the front man to have Pat in there. I think he would have been a staple in the band moving forward and he brings a different dynamic to it.
00:07:29
Speaker
So I think that would have played into the direction of the band moving forward. So if you look at it, despite all of the infighting and Kurt's addiction and all the bullshit associated with it, the musical direction was in an upward trajectory for me.
00:08:06
Speaker
Dave Grohl joins the band in 1990. So the first album that he played on was Nevermind. Or any of the songs on Incesticide.
00:08:18
Speaker
the the the the
00:08:23
Speaker
Yeah, I can't say. That's a good question.
Kurt Cobain and Electronic Music: A New Direction?
00:08:27
Speaker
I'll have to look. Probably someone in the comments will know before I ever get to look. So yes, sorry about my lack of knowledge on incest society. No, I pass. I know what I know and that's out of my knowledge range. Same, same. So if he joins the band in 1990, never mind was
00:08:47
Speaker
It was a comet. I mean, it was like a comet hitting earth. It was huge. It was the biggest album of potentially the entire decade. And then we've got In utero, which built on the success that they had, and it created like they had new dynamics in it. It seems like they were maturing as a band. And when you have past smear in there as well, who knows what they could have created together.
00:09:16
Speaker
Oh, I agree. The music definitely matured over the years, looking at it going from bleach to ward in utero. I mean, there's a definite shift in the paradigm there that's interesting. But Aaron, something I'm curious about is an interview we talked about where Kurt made a comment about electronic music in a new way.
00:09:36
Speaker
Yeah, so on YouTube you can find it and it says rare interview. It's not so rare because it's all over the internet. 1994, I believe is one of the last interviews that Kurt ever did.
00:09:53
Speaker
He was talking about grunge and the direction of the band. And he said that he appreciated new wave. He wanted to add more more pedals, more effects, potentially synthesizers into music. So it could have gone a more poppy direction. I've always said Kurt has a pop sensibility to him. He grew up on Beatles records. He grew up on all the records that were in his parents house. So.
00:10:20
Speaker
Even with that edge that Nirvana always had growing up in the beginning of grunge, the reason they did so well, whereas some of the other Seattle bands didn't, is because he had that pop sensibility. And I feel like he may have leaned into that more as time went on. That's possible. I would also say
00:10:41
Speaker
and someone's going to kill me for this, that if Nirvana was going to go electronic, I think in utero was a perfectly fine ending. I would have liked to have seen what he would do then. I'd listen. Because would he have leaned into that? Would he have leaned into the industrial edge then? Okay. Let's move it that way a little bit. Would he have leaned into that?
00:11:11
Speaker
would have gone a little bit more ministry and a little less EDM? Yeah. That's a good question. I would argue probably. You know, maybe Grunge was wearing on him, though. And like Aaron said, picking up on that pop sensibility would have went the other way. Interesting. So could you see Kurt as the front man of nine-inch nails?
Grunge's Influence and Nirvana vs. Pearl Jam
00:11:38
Speaker
What would that be like?
00:11:40
Speaker
the the the
00:12:06
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, he's absolutely not Elaine Staley. Like, Elaine Staley was like a vocalist. And Kurt was... Kurt's vocals are cool, but I would not call him like a singer. You know what I mean? Where like, Elaine Staley had that. Here's another thing. You know, when Kurt died, Grunch kind of died too. I mean, 94 was about the end of that. If he...
00:12:37
Speaker
Suppose, you know, he does however it happens that he's not dead either. It's not a suicide or whatever, or he kicks his drug addiction, whatever the case may be. What becomes of grunge? Does it stay growing? Was it already kind of slowly starting to die at that point anyways? I mean, you know, the life of grunge is like a grand total of four years in the history of the universe.
00:13:06
Speaker
and it's interesting that we still discuss it at all as short a window as we're talking about, but is that like- We had a lot of really good bands come out of that era too. Yeah, I mean, does that extend the careers of setting up the careers? The heyday of of Alice in Chains, Stone Tipple Pilots, Pearl Jam, Mudhoney. Mudhoney, yeah, see there's- Mudhoney made you smile, I saw it in the dark in a minute. I like those guys.
00:13:37
Speaker
So if you look at Soundgarden's Super Unknown, that comes out in 1994. And that was one of the biggest albums of the grunge era. And it does fizzle out after that. But at that point in 94, Nirvana was already essentially on hiatus.
00:13:54
Speaker
So you have these other guys coming around. Pearl Jam overtakes them. Does Pearl Jam overtake them if they didn't have that hiatus? If Nirvana kept making music consistently like Pearl Jam were doing at the time? I don't know. Could they carry that grunge era through? I think it was probably at a point where these other bands were starting to get the...
00:14:25
Speaker
in a horse race. They, you know, they were starting to slow down and you have these other guys coming in. Stone temple pilots were going for a long time. And then you've got the, the, uh, creation of these super groups later on as well. Like audio audio slave. Yeah. Um, yeah. Oh, that was such a good one. Yeah.
00:14:49
Speaker
So it becomes slightly different music over time as well. Cause you know, I'm, I'm not sure how much you would call velvet revolver grunge. It, it seems like at that point they had already, if you're creating super groups, then it's already sort of the end of that era for me. You know, something I would say is that I compare, look at, looking at Nirvana next to Pearl Jam.
00:15:15
Speaker
I kind of think of like the Beatles next to the Rolling Stones. The Beatles came out, they were hard. They were the biggest thing on earth. They were the biggest thing on earth. They were hard, all right. They probably were some if they had that many people going for them. I'm sure there were moments. How you get parts for Yoko, I have no idea. I don't know either. But hey, to each their own words. I can't hear you, Aaron. But what are saying is like,
00:15:43
Speaker
Like when you put the Beatles next to the Stones, you're looking at a band who was a massive flash versus the Stones, who are a slow burn, who legit 30 days ago put out a new single that is great and like fits on modern radio. It's a good song. And it's that way when you look at Nirvana and Pearl Jam, you got this band that was there for like four years, which is about how long the Beatles toured.
00:16:09
Speaker
You know, I mean, the Beatles touring stage was like ended in like what? Sixty six, seven, somewhere in there where the Stones carried on for 50 years. But we've got that with Nirvana and with Pearl Jam, you know, Nirvana, huge, larger than life.
00:16:26
Speaker
but the big flash where Pearl Jam is still touring and still selling out stadiums around the world to this day. It's interesting to compare them. And have done their solo projects. And I imagine they'll be doing it at 80 years old, just like the Stones are. Did you hear Eddie Vetter's Ukulele album? I have not heard it.
00:16:51
Speaker
That's right. It's atrocious. You don't need to. So, you know, it definitely would have got the three song list and courtesy, but that would have been it. So here you go. If Kurt Cobain didn't die, would he have done his own ukulele album? No. I mean, he said in his suicide notice better to burn out than what was it?
00:17:21
Speaker
burnout than fade away, right? Then fade away. I don't know some. Yeah. You know, it's a thing. It's not wrong. Yeah. Here's one for you. You know, we, we, I don't know. Let's see here. What do we got? I would find, I would find the, for Francis. I love you. I love you. Oh man.
00:17:42
Speaker
Now, notice in this note, if you scroll down, Shane, the only thing that is in caps is I love you, I love you, right? Now, you could attribute that to him trying to say how much he loved Courtney and
Conspiracy Theories: Was Duff McKagan Involved?
00:18:05
Speaker
Francis, or you could look at any one of Duff McKagan's
00:18:12
Speaker
notes, his handwriting, and you will see that it's always in caps. Now, this is getting into a completely different topic. We're talking about what if Kurt Cobain didn't die, but what happened? What were the circumstances around his death? So as far as we know, Guns N' Roses bassist Duff McKagan was the last person to see
00:18:42
Speaker
Kurt Cobain alive. They were on a plane together, right? I'm going to stop sharing this for a minute. Went to Seattle. And according to McKagan, the last time he saw Kurt was when they, when Kurt was at the baggage claim in Seattle and he said, I'm going out for a cigarette. And then he just never came back. Now,
00:19:08
Speaker
They were both junkies at the time and it's hard to believe that they would be together on a plane and not go out, score some dope and hang out, right? So it's possible that Duff McKagan was with Kurt Cobain.
00:19:27
Speaker
in the airport in that in that greenhouse or or the the back shed or whatever it was in uh in his seattle home in curt seattle home where they found him the guest house maybe um so if you look at uh duff mckagan's handwriting is always in caps so it's it's that i love you jumps out at you
00:19:49
Speaker
Yeah, so it's possible that he freaked out, Kurt Odeid, he freaked out and then he took the note that Kurt was writing to apologize to his fans that he wasn't going to be on the rest of the tour or Lollapalooza or whatever festival, whatever he was doing at that time and that he turned it into a suicide note and finished it for him.
00:20:14
Speaker
It's a crazy theory. It has never been, there are a lot of theories. You are not saying you think Duff the Kagan killed him. You're saying you think Duff the Kagan might have been present and, and covered up the OD. Correct. Okay. And we're freaked out. I mean, it's possible. I think there's, I think there's a lot of assumptions that have to take place to get from A to B here. Uh,
00:20:45
Speaker
I don't know enough on this. Has anyone ever put them to this before? Like the idea that that's a possibility or? As far as I know, this is a brand new theory. OK. OK, yeah, because I I mean, you brought it to heart to my attention, especially Aaron. So it's kind of interesting. It's like, well, I would love to have been like a fly on that plane and listen to.
00:21:13
Speaker
the conversation those two guys would have because there was there was there was friction there already between those bands uh now and i'm not meaning that in relation to what we were just talking about but i mean like there was some Guns N Roses nirvana friction at one point i believe in you know probably MTV instigated if i had to guess at the time but uh it was interesting you are talking about you know two far-gone addicts at the time
00:21:44
Speaker
And how did they end up sitting next to each other on a plane to Seattle from LA, I guess it was? I don't know. How did Tom Segura wind up sitting next to Mike Tyson and wind up with him at his concert that night? You know, it's one of the weird things that happens in the airline. Could be a coincidence. So picture this, right? You're Duff McKagan. You're hanging out with Kurt Cobain. EODs.
00:22:09
Speaker
What do you do? Do you want to be known as the guy who was with Kurt Cobain, like when he OD'd or like, do you want people to ask questions? Like who was the one who got the heroin? Like, you know, like, is it his fault? I don't believe a person who was in the throes of addiction and arguably probably freshly blasted at that point after getting off an international flight as an heroin addict.
00:22:40
Speaker
I don't believe the wherewithal would have been there to orchestrate a cover-up. I think- You don't think that the long process could have taken place, right? I don't think he would have been capable. What I'm saying is also that, as a guy who has overdosed before in his life as a young man,
00:23:05
Speaker
There's one thing that everyone around you does and that is run like hell from you and leave you exactly where you are. I've had a couple friends go that way and my gut tells me that's probably what would happen. I don't feel like it's the case but it's an interesting thread to tug on. It's an interesting one because Delph McEgan seems like such a great guy. Yes, I believe that.
00:23:34
Speaker
He's really interesting. If you've never read his book, it's so easy in other lives. It's an amazing book telling about his tales of addiction and kind of what he went through. I know a fellow who I interviewed years ago and have talked to over the years, Matt Bradley. He was on the deadliest catch, but he's a friend of Duff's and has talked a little bit with me before about, you know, just what a pretty generally average nice guy he is.
00:24:03
Speaker
Like, you know, you don't know he's necessarily a Russian, but of course we're talking about sober stuff. We're not talking about anything else. And I'm not saying I have any suspicions because I personally, I really don't. I think it would take so many things to go absolutely right for that to have happened. But it is interesting. It's possible. People make 180 degree turns in sobriety.
00:24:31
Speaker
What I'm curious about, and there is something you mentioned to me when we were discussing doing this, that is something I had just never, ever considered, is let's talk about that Rome overdose of curves.
The Impact of Kurt Cobain's Overdose in Rome
00:24:49
Speaker
Yeah, it seems like he was never the same person after he overdosed in Rome. So he overdosed in Rome in March of 94, and then he died in April of 94. And I read the biography generally seen to be like the most authoritative biography on Kurt Cobain, heavier than heaven.
00:25:17
Speaker
According to his acquaintances at the time, like people that Kurt was seeing, he was not the same person after that overdose.
00:25:27
Speaker
It's a question of whether he even had the mental capacity after that to continue on with Nirvana, whether he had the artistic capacity. I'm not sure he could even pick up a guitar after that point. He was brain dead for at least 20 minutes after that overdose in Rome. Interesting.
00:25:51
Speaker
Wow. So I mean, how is that affected? You know, his creative boom is it's such an interesting, interesting, again, I'd say the thread to belong in this. Yeah. Because, you know, I mean, I mean, obviously, he was still there enough. I mean, we're not talking about a guy who can't communicate. But trauma and extreme incidents like that can affect
00:26:21
Speaker
a person's, not just their motor abilities, their intellectual abilities, but also their creative abilities. Some people make great music from trauma. What else happened to his brain, though, during that overdose study? Were there reports of any mini strokes or anything to that effect?
00:26:45
Speaker
it's the
00:26:53
Speaker
I mean, when you're talking about a what if situation like that just kind of just shows that like he was already on that path, you know, so it's like, it just makes you realize how inevitable that was that he was going to die because he had already gone through that overdose. If he hadn't done that, maybe the next rehab that he did would have been successful. And, you know, he, he
00:27:18
Speaker
could have started that path to sobriety and he would have lived until now, we don't know. But the fact that that happened is like, well, what if he didn't overdose in Rome is maybe a better question than what happens if Kurt Cobain doesn't die, because it seems like at that point it was so inevitable. So then you have to go back and you have to say,
00:27:47
Speaker
So what if Kurt never picked up heroin, you know? Yeah, you could rabbit hole backwards, the what ifs, 100 percent. So far, you know, I would say something else worth looking at is that suicides after overdoses and among drug addicts are not, you know, something that takes a big stretch of the imagination to fully wrap up.
00:28:15
Speaker
You know, anything that messes with, you know, how your brain processes emotion, how it processes thought, things like that can lead to interesting things that are not always great. Now, okay, so here's a question. If Nirvana was already like,
00:28:40
Speaker
on a downward trend.
Kurt Cobain's Potential Solo Career or Supergroup
00:28:42
Speaker
I mean, there was infighting within the band. If Dave Grohl went and did his own thing, would Kurt have created a super group of his own? Would he have gone solo? If Nirvana was no longer in the picture, what was the next step for him?
00:29:05
Speaker
the the the
00:29:43
Speaker
Kurt Cobain's cartwheeling chimpanzees or something. I don't know. It seems like he was at a point where he couldn't take the fame anymore, right? Like Nirvana was way too big for what he could handle. I mean, the same thing happened.
00:29:49
Speaker
that way.
00:30:00
Speaker
And yeah, I mean, yeah, it's the same trope as like any kind of rock star. It's like, hey, I have everything I want. Why am I still so unhappy? You know, same thing happened with John Frishante from the Red Hot Chili Peppers. It's like once they got to a certain level of fame,
00:30:17
Speaker
He just couldn't take it anymore and he quit the band and he went off on his own, did his solo thing, came out with several avant-garde experimental albums, which I was a big fan of. You've turned us on to some of that, I know. Dude, I love that.
00:30:35
Speaker
It's some really good stuff. And it was just for the art. He didn't want to play stadiums anymore. He didn't want to do the interviews. He didn't want to be in the spotlight. He just became a recluse and just focused on his art.
00:30:53
Speaker
And I'm wondering just wanted to make music just purely for the music. So I'm wondering if if Kurt had that opportunity, you know, if he did back out of Nirvana or just ended for whatever reason, if he would be able to take a couple of years and just recenter and then get back to the music and just start like. You know, messing with a
00:31:23
Speaker
you know, like, yeah, who knows what like, yeah, that he wanted to get into sense and stuff. Maybe he gets into that. We had a couple of planned questions for us all to discuss to the going back to Dave Grohl now.
00:31:41
Speaker
you know we have would the Foo Fighters still exist or you know would they would gave Groll have lived as the background drummer the whole time I don't follow up to this too I'll pose but me personally I don't think he would have lived as the background drummer the whole time I don't either I think I think Groll would have wound up I think the bare minimum Groll would have done was
00:32:08
Speaker
be an amazing studio musician that played with everybody.
Dave Grohl's Career Without Nirvana's End
00:32:11
Speaker
But the truth is, I didn't know. To further the question that since we've had a little say on that, you know, if he would have had the opportunity to do his other side projects or from through, well, would he have had the opportunity if he had just lived as a background dumber, if Nirvana didn't die? Studio City, Foo Fighters, Probot, you know.
00:32:37
Speaker
You know, these are all these are all things. I'm crooked vultures. You know, there's to me that like playing with a hero, you know, you're playing with John Paul Jones. So Dave Grohl have had those opportunities presented to him if Nirvana stayed together and Kurt didn't die. Like I think he would have gone on in some musical capacity that would have made an impact for future generations.
00:33:06
Speaker
I will say that. I can't say that it would have been the Foo Fighters because I know a lot of Foo Fighters music was written post Kurt's death. He was dealing with the pain of losing a friend, a bandmate who he's been working with for years, living with, traveling with. Now, with that said, that's a good point about other opportunities that have come for him over the years. You know, it was a running joke in the 90s when you'd watch MTV, like there was a point like,
00:33:37
Speaker
I don't remember what year. I'm going to say somewhere between 96, 99, where at one point Dave was in seven of the top 10 music videos. He just made a thing of hopping in other people's music videos. Suddenly he's done a song with Puff Daddy at the time. So I think Dave would have gone on for a cool thing. I genuinely believe that there is a certain amount of destiny that plays a role.
00:34:07
Speaker
And that Dave Grohl was destined and had the tool required to not just be a great rock and roll drummer, but to also be arguably the best rock and roll frontman in 25 years.
00:34:25
Speaker
Well, and not just that, I mean, Studio City, aside from the music produced from it, you know, his introduction of the film, and I believe I'm correct on the direction of the film, was really good, man.
00:34:39
Speaker
And he bought the new console that was in it. They freaking rebuilt it in his studio. It took the whole fans amazing. If anyone hasn't seen that, go see it. You don't have to be a Foo Fighters fan to like Dave Grohl in my opinion. I am a Foo Fighters fan. I've seen Foo's a few times. Every time it's an absolute party. It's a blast. It's a great rock and roll show, even in gigantic venues that
00:35:08
Speaker
that aren't as personal as some others. It's still a great time. And honestly, that's something Kurt didn't necessarily have. A great time wasn't what Kurt was there to bring you when you saw Nervan. Now, what I will say is Shane Brisson, you're the only one of us who ever saw Nervan alive. Oh, shit. No, I did not. You didn't. I thought you did. No, I did not get to see Nervan alive.
00:35:35
Speaker
the the
00:36:16
Speaker
the the the
00:36:24
Speaker
Oh shit, that's a shame. Yeah. But you still got it. That wasn't me, dude. I did not get to see them live. So I wonder who that conversation was with. Somewhere I have a friend who did see Nirvana and I can't remember who it was. I know people here in St. Louis at Mississippi Nights, which was an old club down here right on the Mississippi, right on the Mississippi River. I mean, like there's cobblestone that comes up out of the water.
00:36:49
Speaker
and there's bars built on that cobblestone. And Mississippi Nights was down there. And it was a shitty club that brought in great bands and good times and lots of great memories for a number of years. There's a recent book out on it that I haven't picked up yet. But I have seen pictures of Nirvana playing there in
00:37:16
Speaker
a couple different eras, I want to say. So they must have been there a few times. But yeah, I never saw them. I've seen Grohl. And I guess Pat Smir because Pat plays with Dave still. It's another interesting thing. I really have one more question I'd love to ask before we wrap this up and call it a nine. We look at Nirvana through
00:37:41
Speaker
sort of rose colored glasses in a way. I'm not knocking what they've done, but what I want to say is that when someone dies, when such a massively influential person dies in such a tragic way and so suddenly there's this thing that's built around them and it creates this powerful web of influence among young bands and bands to come over the next 20 years.
Nirvana's Lasting Influence and Legacy
00:38:08
Speaker
If Kurt doesn't die,
00:38:11
Speaker
How do you think the influence of Nirvana over music from there forward changes? It's not the same. Yeah, I think so. It's not the same influence. I mean, okay, so it smells like Teen Spirit comes on the radio or I'm listening to it on my playlist.
00:38:40
Speaker
I still get the same feeling every single time. I get goosebumps. I sing along to it. I don't get that with some of the other songs that I've heard a million times. I don't get that from Under the Bridge. I don't get it from Welcome to the Jungle. I get it from Smells Like Teen Spirit every single time. So that can't be understated.
00:39:07
Speaker
That's never going to go away, whether they're touring in 2023 or, you know, whether Kurt dies in 94. But the influence, he did die at the height of his fame and that has to be a factor. Yeah, because I feel like the key there is that, do we over inflate the influence they had when they were active?
00:39:37
Speaker
in the light of someone having died. And I don't say that lightly because I do believe Nirvana did. Let me pose a different question. Did the influence solely come from Kurt or did that come from the grunge scene overall? Because not only did you have Kurt, you had Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Temple Jam, STP,
00:40:05
Speaker
money from Melvin's house. That was a lot of cool mashed up sounds. Yeah. I think they were at the forefront and there was a reason for that because all the other bands were around. It's so funny because pretty much everybody who's been interviewed around Nirvana said they didn't think they were going to make it.
00:40:33
Speaker
You know, whether it was a record producer, whether it was like fans in Aberdeen or Seattle, like they're like, yeah, they were just another one in the scene. It was just, and they didn't see them as any better, maybe even one of the lower tiers, like in that whole scene as it was coming up. But there was this X factor that they had that just
00:40:57
Speaker
like skyrocketed them to where they were. So I don't think you can overstate Nirvana's influence in the grunge scene overall. I agree. I would also say something, and I'm just going to step on this pedestal for a moment, but something we often don't talk about with relation to grunge is the fact
00:41:20
Speaker
that we never acknowledged that Soundgarden was on MTV like two and a half years before Nirvana. Their early albums, Ultra Mega OK, Louder Than Love, those are Loud Love, Louder Than Love. One of those. It's something in that vein. I can't remember. It's a great album, but I've got it mixed up in my head. That there were music videos for those songs before Nirvana ever signed a deal.
00:41:48
Speaker
I mean, they were they were on MTV. Now they were not huge songs. They were not making an influence. What Nirvana and Pearl Jam did came with that exact same type of music and kicked the doors in and said, hey, here we are, which is like their leave. Right. And I think that's that's the big role that Nirvana played was they didn't just come in and do it. They came in and did it in a way that made that impact. And
00:42:18
Speaker
and it's the team spirit, songs, the video, it's the attitude they had, it's the way they... They used angst to their advantage. They used angst, yes. Like it or not, voice of a generation, a hundred percent. And partially, it's a couple generations because that was...
00:42:43
Speaker
Even for me, I'm the older dude here. It's like, hell yeah. You know, yeah, I can agree with that.
Personal Reflections on Nirvana's Cultural Impact
00:42:51
Speaker
It does span several generations because like, you know, growing up like as a teenager, as an angsty teenager, you know, I found Nirvana on my own and I felt the same way that I'm sure everybody did when it was coming out on MTV for the first time. Right.
00:43:08
Speaker
I was
00:43:19
Speaker
the the
00:43:45
Speaker
It's just a fun thing. Soundgarden, yeah, Cory. I was introduced to them before Nirvana. I think Dumb Sex was the song. I won't get into the lyrics here because we'll probably get kicked off YouTube. But it's such a great song. It's such a great song. And yeah, I think Aaron summed it up well, but Nirvana just did something different. I still remember the first time I heard Nevermind. I think I had heard Team Spirit once in passing.
00:44:15
Speaker
But I remember being at my friend's house, Seth and Josh Howard in Sygston. Seth lived maybe three more years. He died as a young teenager. But I remember being over at their house. We'd been out skating because that's what little shithead 12 year olds did in the early 90s.
00:44:36
Speaker
I remember us going in there and I had this little like pastel blue Memorex tape deck. It had like louvers across the speakers. It was really cheesy, sounded like garbage, but it looked cool. You know, it looked very late 80s. And he had, nevermind. And we socked it in in their bedroom. And I remember us jumping up and down on beds, bouncing off walls and mashing in a little bitty, a little like eight by 12 bedroom.
00:45:05
Speaker
to that album the first time I ever heard it and uh and I don't hear it without thinking of my little friend from being a teenager uh still so I've still got this um Hey like territorial pissings will still just amp me up you know if I crank it up in the car I'm like yeah I want to hit a mosh pit. Limp Bizkit don't know a fight song. That was a fight song. That was a fight song. Oh my
00:45:35
Speaker
Well, guys, thanks so much. It's been an absolute blast to sit down here together and chat about all this today.
Conclusion and Future 'What ifs'
00:45:42
Speaker
It's been a lot of fun. I think we accomplished absolutely nothing other than enjoying ourselves having a cold drink and talking rock and roll for a few hours. To everyone watching, we hope you'll be back and enjoy us again next time. In the meantime, visit the website, read an article or two, share them out, help us. We need it, man. We're brand new.
00:46:02
Speaker
We're out here with no money. We're just doing this because we fucking love rock and roll. And that's kind of who we are. So check us out on social, whatever we can do. We're always interested to hear more. We'd love to hear your thoughts on what could have happened if the tables turned and Kirk live.
00:46:22
Speaker
So comment away and we'll chime in and please remember any comments about Duff McKagan to direct those to A-R-O-N-V-A-U. Right here guys, I can take it. Let me hear your theories. Duff McKagan was there.
00:46:50
Speaker
But guys, we'll be back here. This is going to be an ongoing series that we're going to be bringing you. So do you have any thoughts on how we can improve? Because God knows we can. Let us know. Sounds good. Thank you, everybody. We have a couple more of these in the hopper. And we're really working hard to get some interesting guests in for them in the future. I don't know yet who it will be. I'm not going to say anything until we have anyone locked in.
00:47:20
Speaker
You want to keep watching. It'll be fun. And if you have an idea for a Rock and Roll What If, hit us up on armchairrockstar.com. Let us know because we want the ideas. And we will sit here and riff and talk shit on anything we feel like for as long as we want. So have a great week, everybody. Rock on. We'll see you later.