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What if Glenn Danzig Never Left The Misfits?
30 Plays1 year ago
What if Glenn Danzig didn't leave The Misfits in 1983? Would they have stayed together? Would they have remained focused on their #horrorpunk roots or shifted into metal? Would Danzig's solo career have still happened? Would that music have happened with The Misfits?
Rock n Roll What Ifs is the latest project from the crew at ArmchairRockstar.com. In each episode, some combination of staff and special guests gather together to discuss the most unlikely of hypothetical questions. Basically, this is our Friday night hangout among likeminded friends where we dive deep into the recesses of rock n roll impossibilities.
Visit Armchair Rockstar, where rock n roll is still alive and well: https://armchairrockstar.com/
Real Rock Right Now Playlist https://sdz.sh/ZCwrCO
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Transcript
Introduction and Halloween Theme
00:00:07
Speaker
Hey everyone, I'm Shane Brisson from Armchair Rockstar. Welcome back to Rock and Roll What Ifs. Today, in honor of Halloween, we'll be pondering a fun one. What if Glen Danzig never left the misfits? Today, we're joined by my partner in crime and editor-in-chief Corey Knowles and our resident...
00:00:28
Speaker
rock punk buff, Chris M'Ladies. Hey, man. Chris, a journalist who has spent years covering the music industry and chasing great punk around New York City. Chris, I've worked on your stuff for years, designing it. It's a pleasure to finally meet you. Let's dive in. Likewise, Shane. Absolutely. Thank you guys for having me on. I appreciate it.
Chris's Punk Rock Journey
00:00:49
Speaker
For sure, man, for sure. Excited about this one. I think it's going to be fun, especially being Halloween. Absolutely. Yeah, this is the season for the Misfits, it looks like. Chris, you're the guest. Please fire the opening salvo. Well, I got into punk rock when I was probably 14 or 15, late middle school, early high school. I'd go to a lot of shows in total. I've been to like
00:01:14
Speaker
over maybe 150, 200 punk rock shows throughout my 10 year in the scene. But I've been covering music journalism and been doing that since 2003. That's how I broke into writing. Eventually in 2007, I broke into news writing, but through and through, I've been a punk rocker through all those years and it's really helped to motivate me in what I do.
Influence of Danzig-era Misfits
00:01:35
Speaker
And as far as the music journalism stuff, that's not really ever left. It's always sort of been in my blood. So whenever I can inject music into my writing, I go for it.
00:01:44
Speaker
That's awesome, man. That's awesome. Well, it's good to be back again this week. Chris, we're really glad to have you here, man. Chris, just for those of you who don't know, for years, Chris and I have worked together and he's always been my resident punk rock guru when I have a question. I call and Chris sends me a band and says, check these out. And then I get lost in a rabbit hole for a few days and we go back and forth. Yeah, that'll happen.
00:02:12
Speaker
Sorry about inflicting that on you because not all those bands are winners. Hey, you know, you have to listen to some garbage to get to the good stuff. There's a lot of garbage in the world today. There's good music. It's just very. Oh, man. Well, so let's see. What if Danzig never left the misfits? That's a it's an interesting topic.
00:02:38
Speaker
Chris, what's the first thing that comes to your mind? If Danzig was still around, what's the first thought that hits you?
What if Danzig Stayed?
00:02:44
Speaker
So the thing with the Danzig era Misfits, as far as that band is concerned, that iteration of the band, the original lineup, for me, they're a quintessential punk rock group. It's essential listening. If you're just getting into punk rock music or you're looking for a band to sort of be your gateway into that genre, the Danzig era stuff is the way to go. You have to start there.
00:03:07
Speaker
They did something different, being that they were kind of horror themed. A lot of their music was pulling from various horror movies, a lot of old Hitchcock with Psycho and Return of the Fly and stuff like that. But the question I think you asked was, what would it look like if Glenn never left?
00:03:31
Speaker
You know, I think the band would have gotten a lot tighter and more proficient. I think that they probably still would have settled on subject matter that dealt with the macabre and occultism, which Danzig was really hip on. But I'm not sure that they would have endured
00:03:50
Speaker
like a band like the Rolling Stones or even the Ramones that had multiple, multiple albums and didn't disband until 96. I would think that they would really hone in and become better players. I think Danzig behind the helm would have written some really clever, dark, edgy punk rock and then they've continued the band through the years, but I'm not quite sure how long that would have been because I knew that Danzig always had a bigger vision outside the
Danzig's Solo Career and Misfits' Evolution
00:04:20
Speaker
band.
00:04:20
Speaker
so yeah, cuz it goes from there and Sam Hain and He bet his most successful music as Just as Glenn Danzig sure the solo music I can't help but wonder one of the first things that comes to my mind when I think about it is Would his solo career have still happened would would at some point he have branched off even if they remain together as a band would he still have
00:04:49
Speaker
I wonder, you know, dived in and done it, because there was a lot of great music, man. There's there's Twisted Cane, there's Mother, obviously, which everybody knows, Dirty Black Summer. You're getting in. There's so much great stuff that came in those first two or three albums, especially that. But it's interesting to me because he keeps a dark theme, but basically moves over to metal.
00:05:13
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, definitely a harder more of a hard rock sort of metal post-punk feel on his later albums for sure. And you kind of saw that carry through with the Misfits. I mean, when they dropped Earth A.D., which, you know, Glenn had lamented, he hated the mixing on it. He hated how his vocals sounded. But that was unlike anything they did in the past. I mean, you even look at the compilations like legacy for brutality or collections one to obviously walk among us.
00:05:43
Speaker
Static age when he when he came when it came time to release and to work on earth ad it was much thrash here There's no denying it. It wasn't so much the punk rock that you heard in the past it was more so more polish a lot thrash here and I feel like and I mean at the time he wrote two songs that during that era specifically for Sam Hayne But he included it on
00:06:10
Speaker
I think just for sheer virtue that there weren't enough songs to round out the album, but you saw that progression that he was taking. So yeah, I think that kind of led him into going into more heavier music, which is evident on the self-titled stuff or the solo stuff, I should say. Yeah.
00:06:32
Speaker
It's interesting. I remember, I guess my first exposure to Danzig solo music would have been the video for Twista Kane on Headbanger's Ball back on MTV, way the hell back. Back when MTV had music and it was great. Your good music was relegated to two and a half hours or three hours on a Saturday night into Sunday morning. Right.
00:07:00
Speaker
It was I remember the video for twist a cane and mother and I remember I went out picked it up on cassette, but when I did I also bought Completely with no knowledge of what it was. I bought earth ad At the same time we went we had a mall we used to go to about 40 miles from the house But it was time to get music because I grew up on the country and we went to Camelot music in the mall. Do you remember Camelot? I
00:07:36
Speaker
We had Amalot and Disc Jockey were the two big mall record stores. Oh, we had Sam Goody. Was that over there by you guys as well? Okay, cool. We had Sam Goody. We had Sam Goody. This is kind of dating myself. We had the Wall and then we had Sam Goody and there may have been another. But Tower Records for me was huge. Every weekend I'd go and check out a show.
00:07:50
Speaker
Shane remembers Camelot music. I'm on the East Coast. You probably didn't have them in New York.
00:07:57
Speaker
Then at night I'd head over to Tower Records and just go through the bends and just grab a CD almost every weekend. Most of it usually of the punk rock variety, obviously. That's been my bread and butter. For me, one of the things that was interesting about picking those albums up is I knew what to expect in the Danzig solo record. I felt like I knew what I was getting there and with Earth AD, I had no idea. When I first put it in, I was probably
00:08:26
Speaker
I was a kid. I started buying music really young. I remember putting it in and thinking that it sounded like absolute shit, but it was really cool.
00:08:43
Speaker
I was like, why does it sound so bad? I guess I just never, at that age, I had never been exposed to any, any, any punk that was, you know, recorded with a dangling microphone in a metal garage or something. Right. Right. No, hell yeah.
00:08:59
Speaker
I love it. I love it. Despite the shitty recording, I mean, I love all that stuff. And like I mentioned earlier with collections one and two that Danzig decided to drop, as well as legacy brutality, like the quality just wasn't there. And on collection one, it sounded like the recorded the entire album in a tin can. I mean, it was just bad, but I find myself returning to it often and really enjoying the tunes. So that's got to say something about it. You know what I mean? Yeah.
00:09:26
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, now I do. I listen to him regularly, love the music. I watched an interview the other night where it wasn't really an interview. Henry Rollins was talking to someone and someone was recording it. He was talking about their 12 hits from hell and about how the mix was so much better, but Danzig didn't want it to come out. He said, you listen to the normal one and it sounds like he's singing into a keg or something.
00:09:53
Speaker
It's it's like like the drums are out front. The guitars are buried and the singers in the middle or something like the mix is just like just some strange choices. Right.
Misfits' Cultural Impact and Merchandising
00:10:05
Speaker
And it was was interesting stuff.
00:10:12
Speaker
Do you think, just an interesting dive, do you think the super short window of time where the Misfits existed and put out an album, do you think that plays a role in their influence and how it worked, that it was this super short, super quick, it came together? Do you think that taints how we, I mean not taints, but changes how we see them if we were looking at them as
00:10:41
Speaker
a band that's been around for 30 years. Yeah, I mean, you know, the Misfits have had an undeniable influence when it comes to, you know, the early eighties hardcore scene where I think they had, you know, by 77, when they started getting serious about writing, the Ramones had already dropped three releases and were touring the world relentlessly. But when it came to the Misfits, I feel like they were,
00:11:08
Speaker
in a pocket of time that was just at the very right moment it was a powder keg and it was going from punk rock as we knew in the 70s which by 80s hardcore standards was very tame and just the level of aggression and energy that that that the misfits really promoted and really like exuded I thought was perfect for them and that short period of time
00:11:32
Speaker
I think for a lot of people, it may have felt like it was a flash in the pan, and I guess in some ways it was, but it really captured the energy of that moment in time. And again, one of the questions we're pondering is, what would have happened if it had continued? I don't know if there's a perfect answer for that question, but that's certainly something that we can expound upon as we continue our discussion. Well, would they have been seen through the same eyes if they had continued? By the fans?
00:11:59
Speaker
Yeah, I've got some insight on that. When it comes to just punk rock in general, and this can probably translate to other genres as well, but you're looking at two categories of people. I mean, with punk rock, it's always been a youth movement. Rock and roll has always been a youth movement. So when you get down into it, if you're a music enthusiast and you love the genre, either you're a lifer and you're going to the shows and you're reliving those moments and you love the live music and will go out of your way,
00:12:29
Speaker
fucking get out of work early just to check out a gig. Those are the lifers. Then there are the others that start young and sort of use punk rock as a tool for maybe finding an identity or feeling like they're some sort of community and then they leave.
00:12:46
Speaker
So I think in the case of the Misfits, you're always going to have those diehards that would have stuck with them if they had continued releasing material with Glenn Danzig as the main songwriter. I think those people would have endured. And those other people that decided just that it wasn't for them or maybe the outcome of the sound or they were no longer interested in punk, they'd leave. But an entire generation of new fans would have taken over for sure.
Reunion Shows and Financial Dynamics
00:13:10
Speaker
That's just the ebb and flow when it comes to punk rock. That makes sense. Yeah. That makes sense.
00:13:16
Speaker
You know, they're one of the most well marketed bands on earth as far as gear goes and stickers and hats and shirts and lunch Halloween costumes. And it just goes on and on. And I was thinking today while we were preparing for this, I kept thinking, I'll bet they've made more money on merchandising than they've ever been. And Jerry's still fucking pissed because Glenn has after that.
00:13:46
Speaker
He takes half from all the merch sales. And Joe takes the other half. And they're still together, though, aren't they, technically? I mean, they did some shows. They're still together, technically, aren't they? They did some shows last year, I believe. Yeah. I mean, I think it was 2016. They played their reunion show at Riot Fest. And then that turned into a couple of gigs throughout the country. And then they eventually stopped. And I think they did it for two reasons. One, and the most obvious one is the love of money.
00:14:13
Speaker
Everyone wants a paycheck. So that's a bit cynical of me to say that. But at the same time, you've got that instant cashflow that you know is coming. But I think when it comes to aging rock stars or musicians, at some point, they have to sit down as a group and be like, hey, listen, there's going to be a point in time where we just can't do this shit anymore.
00:14:35
Speaker
like our backs are gonna go, my voice is gonna go, my hands. I mean, if you look at Lemmy during his later years, he could barely hold his bass. So there reaches a point where it's like, either we do this now or it's never gonna happen. And I think that kind of mindset or that thinking was definitely present in those discussions with the band.
00:14:55
Speaker
Like there was maybe always an idea that one of these days, we're going to do this. It's going to be really cool. We're going to make a mountain of money and carry us through our older years. And that's a big thing now. I can't help but wonder how much the decline in publishing revenue from the streaming world
00:15:16
Speaker
played into that as well. Because, you know, I mean, we're at a point now where it's, you know, hundreds of screens streams to make up for what they make on one vinyl record in sales. And there are a lot of older bands on the road these days, if you haven't noticed, been a lot of cancellations this year, too. As a result of all of these older guys touring, I think a lot of that has to do with
00:15:41
Speaker
we're seeing the first generation of aging rockers who don't have the luxury of publishing royalties to survive on in their old age.
Influence on Other Bands
00:15:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But then it's weird too. I mean, Bob Dylan sold his entire catalog. I think there's been a couple of other musicians, prolific musicians that have done the same. It's a bit of a shame. The crew did like a billion dollars. It was huge.
00:16:07
Speaker
Yeah, I mean they're providing for themselves the rest of their life, but more so it's for the families obviously they want they want to make sure that they're taken care of that's really what it is for sure for sure um Something else that crossed my mind in thinking of the misfits is yeah when when you think of them being broken up and and the role they played in
00:16:32
Speaker
fans like early Metallica. I mean, Metallica was covering, Metallica probably gave the Misfits as much recognition and notoriety as anybody in those early years. Because I mean, you know, 80, what, 84, they're cover, 85, they're covering Lascaris, Green Hell, and there's one more.
00:16:51
Speaker
They did Die Die My Darling later. But when I think of that, I don't just think of them influencing punk bands. I also think of how that got into horror core and stuff. Like bands like ICP and the Ghetto Boys even, or let's say Cannibal Corpse, Cancer. When you get into some of the
00:17:12
Speaker
the darker lyrical themes, unlike Astro Zombies and stuff like that, that get a little more gory. I can't help but wonder if that is the music that opens the door for those kind of bands. Yeah, I think in all honesty, I'm sure it was an influence.
00:17:33
Speaker
just because the Misfits have had such a staying power, I mean, through merchandising alone, the Crimson Ghost is something that is hugely recognizable. I mean, everyone knows it. They might not know the meaning behind it. They're particularly young, but they can identify it. And so I think what you're saying is true. I think that they've helped influence a lot of bands. There have been a lot of bands that have a direct influence like Blitz Kid and some of them, but
00:18:03
Speaker
Yeah, I think the legacy of the Misfits is endured. You've got many bands that deal with horror elements that I'm sure can be traced back to the band. They've made such an impact on the music industry and on underground music in general that I can't help but think that they are responsible for a lot of these horror themed bands as well.
00:18:28
Speaker
And they did that from very small clubs in New York. They weren't on the cover of circus magazine and talking about radio. They barely left the tri-state. Yeah. For the most part, I mean, they're from Lodi, uh, you know, New Jersey, they would do the tri-state circuit and that's what they would stick to primarily until they branched up. I think they may have done some dates in Canada and elsewhere, but for the most part, there were a New Jersey, New York band and that's where they stuck.
00:18:58
Speaker
Nice. Pretty amazing. The lasting legacy for just sticking to the Tri-State area though. It's wild. And I think that's actually a good question. You know, what would have happened in terms of their support and their staying power? Have they decided to venture outside of the East Coast?
00:19:13
Speaker
Right. I mean, to my knowledge, they never did any international stuff with the exception of England, where they were famously jailed. And that's how London Dungeon came to be, which I think is pretty awesome. For grave robbing, apparently. I don't know if you knew that, but that was they were in a graveyard. They went grave robbing and they were booked.
00:19:37
Speaker
I like the way the history lesson you guys have been giving me and sending me, so yeah. Great story. But yeah, again, that just begs the question, you know, have they really pushed to get out there and to tour relentlessly? I'm wondering what kind of impact that may have had on their audience and for the men themselves. And I mean, who would they have even toured with?
00:20:01
Speaker
like like what band do you pair the Misfits with in 85 86 who do you stick with and do you roll them through the midwest so so Jerry only was really tight with uh Henry Rollins who at the time was with Black Flag
00:20:16
Speaker
and when it comes to hardcore like you have to realize too is that you
East vs West Coast Punk Scenes
00:20:20
Speaker
know a lot of it can be credited for a lot of the east coast punk rock or the east coast hardcore bands that we're coming through but like even like washington dc with the bad brains that really set things off in new york city when it came to like
00:20:32
Speaker
really promoting the hardcore movement. But if you look on the West Coast, you had bands like the Germs, Circle Jerks, Black Flag X. There was a lot happening there, too. So my whole thing is, why didn't they just play a lot more dates on the West Coast? There was certainly an audience for it. But no. So Danzig had spent a lot of time talking with Henry Rollins. I'm sure if they had any touring mates,
00:21:01
Speaker
The obvious ones in the hardcore movement would probably have been Black Flag. Probably Black Flag. The germs maybe, Circle Jix. The thing with the germs though where they were very unreliable because their frontman Darby Crash was always hopped up on fucking something. He would never sing into his microphone.
00:21:19
Speaker
All of the shows would end in a disaster with somebody getting arrested. So yeah, it was different on the LA coast, on the West coast from what we were doing here in New York. But yeah, I think they probably would have done a very successful term with those West Coast bands.
00:21:35
Speaker
and bringing them over here out east, you know? Yeah, exactly. That's what I was going to say. The same thing for those West Coast bands coming out and hitting New York. That was a weird 80s dynamic thing and it carried over into rap later. You had this East Coast versus West Coast. It's true.
00:21:53
Speaker
I think as we've become a more globally connected world in the years since, thanks to the internet and whatnot, I think that's kind of gotten rid of some of that. You don't hear those things. It's definitely broke down walls for sure. And I think there was some kind of a competition too with West Coast punk and hardcore bands compared to what was going on in the East Coast.
00:22:18
Speaker
But I think both scenes were similar in terms of just their playability, the fact that a lot of them just kept it very simple, very bare bones, right, direct to the point. But they're different in style. If you really listen to them side by side, they're very different. I mean, if you're looking at like the SoCal bands, like Agent Orange, for example, that like this surf rock sort of feel to it, they covered Miserloo, which was amazing. They definitely had that kind of feel.
00:22:48
Speaker
and i mean who could blame them you know they're they're in orange county so they've got the ocean they've got the beautiful beaches it's a different vibe than what we're getting out here because the atlantic ocean is absolutely disgusting there's not a single person you want to go to on these coast what's that said those unfortunate bastards in orange county it must be terrible oh yeah yeah absolutely
00:23:09
Speaker
But they had some great songs, man. I loved Agent Orange, and this is actually a bit of a tie-in, but I saw the Misfits, well, back when Jerry only decided to recruit Marky Ramon on drums and Des Candina on guitar. Agent Orange, open for them.
00:23:27
Speaker
I saw them probably in I'm in Suffolk County, Long Island. So I saw them in Nassau. It's about a 45 minute ride. They play this club. Age Orange comes on. I was a huge fan. So was my friend and they got booed off stage.
00:23:42
Speaker
And everybody in attendance, all these young kids had Misfits shirts on, they had the, um, the skeleton gloves and, and all that sort of thing. And I'm just like, how the hell do you boo Asian orange off stage? And then of course the Misfits came on, everyone lost their fucking minds, but it wasn't the same. It was the first time I saw
00:24:01
Speaker
The Misfits on stage, and it was just a cover act. And this is something that we talked behind the scenes about, Corey, was that, you know, Dez would play his Black Flag tunes, and Markie would do some Ramones, and Jerry would do The Misfits stuff, and try his best Glenn Danzig impersonation, which fell flat in a lot of ways.
00:24:20
Speaker
Um, but turning out to jerry's cred he's kept the whole thing going all these years And I think that yeah had he not the chance for reunion may or may not have been possible. I mean who knows Yeah, yeah, it's a good point. You know, I mean he uh, he carried the torch for sure he did um, you know when when a lot of guys when you see that a lot now though, there's a lot of several 80s bands like uh
00:24:45
Speaker
LA guns Speaking of which Steve Riley died yesterday so or day before yesterday So that was part of the there are two LA guns. There are two great whites. There are two skid rows All of these bands that broke up over the years But they're all still touring on the same music. One of them gets the real name and the other one gets Jack Russell's great white or so, right? Right, right
00:25:11
Speaker
Yeah, well the same thing happened to an extent with the Misfits. I mean, there was a 13-year-long legal battle between Jerry only, Doyle, and Glen Dansing over the rights to the name. So when they settled, you know, Jerry had the right to play as under the Misfits moniker. He was entitled to half of
00:25:33
Speaker
the March sales and he's continued the band. But I just can't get over this, just the sad fact that he's trying his best to croon and to sound like Danzig and it's just not working out. It's just not working. It really isn't. And I mean, some of the stuff that he's put out with Dez and Robo, I mean, it's just
00:25:55
Speaker
Scraping at the bottom of the barrel sort of thing they're trying to use the horror tie-ins and do their best to keep it going But it falls on deaf ears in a lot of ways I mean people that I continue to talk to in the punk rock scene like they just they're like, what's
Project 1950 and Misfits' Sound
00:26:09
Speaker
the misfits? I stopped listening in like, you know 98. Yeah Yeah
00:26:15
Speaker
that's sad you know it's funny i last night as as as kind of part of prepped for this i want i decided i wanted to listen to project 1950 right uh and uh here's the deal in my opinion is it a fun punk record with some cool songs absolutely is it the misfit though
00:26:40
Speaker
no no not at all not not at all there's a funny story with uh the whole 1950 the project 1950 was that uh jerry olin was a huge fan of the nfl and um he in the project 1950 they they covered uh uh great balls of fire and it was played in stadiums across the country and that was like his
00:27:04
Speaker
crowning achievement. He always wanted to do it. So he succeeded. And this is where we have a difference of opinion core. I think Project 1950 was fucking trash. I hated it.
00:27:14
Speaker
I couldn't fucking stand it. I really couldn't. Through the eyes of a lifetime Misfits diehard though. Where for me, I've never been the diehard, but I do dig the music. I liked Danzig for many, many years, but I never knew as much of the history as you do and followed them to the extent that you have.
00:27:37
Speaker
so for me it was like it's it's okay if you were to take just the misfits name off of it fine and just possible if you'd be like that's a cool record it's okay it's not bad I mean uh what they had oh Donna which by the way I mean
00:27:57
Speaker
Richie Vounds was one of the greats and to take a really slow, kind of heartfelt, romantic song and just up-tempo the shit out of it and turn it into a poem cover, that's where I thought it was sacrilege, honestly, when I was listening to that. I'm like, how the fuck do you ruin such a perfect song? And he did. So there you have it. Oh, shit.
Danzig's Metal Influence and Occult Themes
00:28:24
Speaker
Do you think,
00:28:26
Speaker
You think there's any chance that given the fact that immediately after the Misfits, Danthig's going into Sam Hayne and it's taking this metal shift. His musical direction as a songwriter is taking a shift into metal from punk. If he sticks around, do you think the Misfits kind of push that direction?
00:28:48
Speaker
Yeah. It's like I said, I think with Earth AD, you heard them get a lot thrashier. Yeah. Because bands like Pantera were coming up and Thrax Metallica was becoming bigger and bigger. So I think just part of that was just this natural progression. I think that Danzig always wanted to stay relevant and to stay fresh. And I think to an extent that's why he got rid of so many of his bandmates because he wanted the best of the best.
00:29:16
Speaker
And I think one of the reasons why he decided to just abandon Jerry Only and Doyle was because he felt like they were not good musicians. They were not the best of the best, yeah. Yeah, it just wasn't what he was looking for. So he thought Sam Hayne would have been something different, and it was. And I appreciated him covering or doing, it wasn't so much a cover, it was more like a
00:29:40
Speaker
a remix of Horror Business, which is one of my all-time favorite Misfits songs. But they came out with Horror Biz on the first same Hayne record. They changed the arrangement of the song. Musically, it was a bit different. I don't know if you've heard it, Corey, but it's absolutely fantastic. But yeah, you saw there where it was still kind of horror-punky with songs like Macabre and
00:30:05
Speaker
I'm trying to think what else I could think of off that same hand record. But anyhow, you saw a shift in taste when it came to the kind of stuff they were putting out. And eventually it turned into Danzig being the star attraction and releasing music under his name. And then, you know, the rest is history. I think when it came to his releases, he was doing what he wanted to do, what he thought he always wanted to do. And I think to an extent he excelled at it. There's people that really respect what he did.
00:30:34
Speaker
after Sam Hain, but I never really got into it.
00:30:39
Speaker
I feel like Sam Hayne was a necessary step between the two projects. Listening to them in hindsight, like you can see we're going from straight punk. And then there's this transition phase where it's like he's figuring out what he's doing. And then hardcore, then thrash, then kind of like post-punk. I mean, it was kind of all over the place. Where would you guys place his solo efforts?
00:31:17
Speaker
It still has some aspects of that, but not nearly to the extent that the Misfits did. There's no gore. Honestly, it went a little more satanic by the second album, if anything. But what I will say is that when Danzig's first album released,
00:31:30
Speaker
as far as genre do you still think it follows that you know macabre i would say
00:31:38
Speaker
the move
00:31:51
Speaker
to thrash even and I mean it really wasn't thrash it didn't get that heavy but it was it was definitely not like radio rock you know you weren't going to hear it on well you did never mind you did hear mother mother got significant time on the rock stations down here almost just when you were still on this cross too yeah oh ad nauseam dude it was like
00:32:16
Speaker
You know, it's what's odd is I could still put that signal on and still enjoy it. It's not like me I enjoy the hell out of it. Okay. Yeah at that time. It was just Really? Yeah. Yeah, we're just locking that shit out of it on the radio and what oh, yeah You know what though? I'll bet you and mother's still what's keeping the lights on for Glenn Danzig at this point in life I wouldn't doubt it. Yeah, you know, I mean that's the one that catapulted him
00:32:43
Speaker
into, I will not say super stardom. He's not a superstar. That's not correct. But some people would disagree with you. Different level. Yeah, maybe, you know, maybe I'm maybe I'm being a little critical. But my past, my last question was actually kind of a perfect segue, though. Would the misfits lyrical themes have delved deeper into the dark horror imagery with his continued involvement?
00:33:11
Speaker
Yeah, well I think later in life it came out that Danzig was an avid reader and he liked to read about occultism, the parallels between the occult and Nazi Germany, really weird obscure stuff. He said that he claims to have a book
00:33:29
Speaker
that has missing pages from the Bible that depicted Jesus Christ during his early years that weren't documented in the New Testament. And he talked about how Jesus was actually evil at a young age and would torment his peers. So he says that's in the Bible. He's very sure of himself that that was Jesus when he was a teenager. He would inflict torture upon other people.
00:33:56
Speaker
Who knows? But if they don't want to take those elements of occultism and this weird spin on religion, I think the subject matter or just the lyrical output of the Misfits would have very much stayed in that horror vein.
00:34:14
Speaker
And it may have gotten even deeper. Because I think when it came to some of their early stuff or just a lot of their songs, they were really pulling from old B-movie horror tropes. That was really where they were going with their stuff. It didn't really deal much with the whole occultism, although I haven't heard a lot of Danzig solo stuff. I'm sure a lot of that may have crept in because during that time, he was very much into all that weird stuff.
00:34:40
Speaker
Also, the New World Order and the Freemasons, he was deep into that lore. So who knows?
Commercial Success Speculations
00:34:50
Speaker
That's so interesting. That was where I was about to go with it, was that those early years were
00:34:58
Speaker
almost comic book horror uh in a in a yeah those b movies those old science fiction movies with the flying saucers you know teenagers from mars kind of shit and uh what did they say i read the other day that that was kind of believed to be pulled from maybe invasion of the body snatchers and uh something else i can't remember
00:35:21
Speaker
But it was talking about a couple of movies they felt like a lot of that era stuff really came from specifically Yeah
00:35:32
Speaker
Interesting. You had the song, again, horror business. I'm bringing it back up again. Some people thought it was his reaction to Sid Vicious and Nancy Spungen killing themselves or Nancy Spungen being murdered. But if you listen to the lyrics, I mean, you know, Psycho 78, 12 o'clock, don't be late, all this horror business, like the mirrors are black for you. It very much felt like he was pulling from the Hitchcock film.
00:36:00
Speaker
Yeah, but some might argue that it was based or rooted more in reality. I don't know. Interesting. Do you think suppose they continue on Danzig's writing ability is growing.
00:36:16
Speaker
Do you guys think there's any chance they would have been more commercially successful over an additional stretch, you know, if they went on for another five years, 10, 20 years? I don't believe for a minute that the Misfits would have stayed together from 1977 or whatever to today. Like I feel like they're one of those bands that every five or six years they'd have maybe done a tour together or something.
00:36:46
Speaker
fund their other projects after they broke up, one of those kind of things, you know. The only kind of thought I have on that question, Corey, is it goes back to what you guys were talking about, is maybe if they had it towards the West Coast more. Yeah. They would have gotten more exposure. Yeah, I think that would have been California, you know, the scenes out there. So
00:37:14
Speaker
hard to gauge. I think they would have at least gotten that much more exposure.
00:37:20
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that really would have opened them up to more career opportunity as well because those old punk rock bands from and the hardcore bands from the west coast that I mentioned earlier, like they had a lot of staying power for a lot of them did. And some of them were signed to majors. So who knows what could have happened? I do know that when Mercury bought out the name for Glen Danzig's record label, which was blank, I believe at first.
00:37:47
Speaker
Yeah, when they when they decided to do that he sold it to him in exchange for studio time So that studio session turned out to be static age Which was essentially their first record, but it wasn't released until 96
00:38:03
Speaker
which is crazy. But he was, you know, dancing to his credit was shopping it around. He knew that, you know, the Ramones signed with Sire Records, which was a subsidiary of Warner Brothers. They knew that they had kind of a similar sound and that was stripped down rock and roll. It was a lot of like real energy that they thought would have captivated an audience similar to what the Ramones had done at CBGBs in New York City. But it just never happened. No one wanted static age. No one wanted anything to do with the band. So,
00:38:33
Speaker
it's weird. I think if they continued on as a band, yeah, I guess your question is valid. Would they have gone on to find commercial success? I think that's a very hard question to answer, honestly. What do you think, Shane? I don't know about so much commercial success. I just think they would have gotten even more exposure. They even hit the DC scene.
00:39:01
Speaker
Yeah, down there Black Flag minor threat. Right, bands like that, so. Yeah, I think for me.
00:39:14
Speaker
The key is whether they just stayed in the New York area. If they stay in the New York area, they are what they are. And then that's probably what they would have stayed, in my opinion. Because they're not on MTV. They're not on the radio. They're not in the magazines.
Evolution of Misfits' Sound and Identity
00:39:31
Speaker
They're not in any of the more mainstream stuff that would have
00:39:38
Speaker
would have spread their good word a lot farther. I mean, you know, I mean, by being underground music, you know, you are more difficult marketing journey, you know, and, but I think if they got out, I think if, you know, if they were touring Europe, I don't know how well their music would have gone over in Europe. It's an interesting thought, but you know, cause British punk is very different. I feel like British punk was,
00:40:07
Speaker
you know there's this interview I watched a few nights ago of uh it's not an interview it's a panel but Johnny Rotten and Marky Ramon are you know trying to come blows and one of the things that they're talking about is Marky's like we were having fun we wanted to make fun music and he's like and Johnny Rotten was like yeah but you're not dealing with the politics you're not dealing with the things that that that Johnny Rotten would argue are what punk is and uh
00:40:32
Speaker
And I can't help but wonder because what seemed to come out of the UK was so much more serious. Yeah. Well, economically, they were doing very, very poorly. But then if you're looking at like, you know, 80s hardcore, I mean, we had Reagan. So, yeah.
00:41:10
Speaker
But more so with like the American side, it was just, I mean, the Ramones icons themselves, they looked at what was hip to, or like what was popular on top 40, you know, what were the big bands? And a lot of it was disco and how a lot of, you know, youth, young people just viewed it as being this,
00:41:13
Speaker
there's that it's good to move the hardcore
00:41:31
Speaker
this very glamorous or this lifestyle that they weren't leading, they weren't interested in the BGs, they weren't interested in all these disco acts. And so I think a lot of what they were rebelling against was the current mainstream music market
00:41:51
Speaker
along with just feeling like they didn't belong anywhere because they didn't dare step foot in disco club. And a lot of these young kids didn't want to go and see these big arena rock bands that made it a point to declare that there was a clear separation between artist and fan. Really what punk rock was in the beginning and what it's continued to be is a communal experience where you have the artists and the fans and they're all on the same level.
00:42:20
Speaker
Yeah. Whereas if you were to see a band like ACDC, not to knock them, but there's no way you're going to get backstage and just or shoot the shit with them after the show. No, just never happen. But you take any punk rock band there ever was and that was always on the table.
00:42:36
Speaker
Yeah, that's why that's why I like punk rock as much as I do and that's why I think it's really endured all these years as well Yeah, and some of those guys might have hopped off the front of the stage at the end of the show Not oh, yeah, not even go into the back. You know, I mean I've watched a bunch of footage that was so
00:42:52
Speaker
You know, you look at the pop, you look at Henry Rollins back in the Black Flag days. I mean, this is very, it was very personal. It was very authentic. Yeah. Which is in your face for sure. As an older guy now, you know, in my 40s, that authenticity is what I have really been craving because that's what I don't hear on the radio.
00:43:14
Speaker
when you get in the car. That's what you're not hearing in soundtracks to television shows and shit like that. That authenticity, that realness, the idea that what you're hearing is the ideas of three or four people who sat down and they put this song together out of pieces that they made, that they came up with, even if they were shit.
00:43:38
Speaker
Musicians and a lot of them were in the beginning until late. So many bands from that era kind of kind of just you can watch them get better as they go even the Ramones you just watch them get better at their instruments and writing and things over the years but.
00:43:59
Speaker
And I think that might have played a role with the Misfits. That's my gut. If I was going to just take a gamble, I would say much of what we think of as dancing solo stuff might have just happened in the Misfits in a slightly different veil of some sort maybe. But I think if he was growing that way, the Misfits would have just been a part of that too.
Reunion Dynamics and Aging
00:44:28
Speaker
Yeah Yeah, I don't know if I can completely agree with that Because at the end of the day like jerry only and dan zig are probably both what to the most ego They're they're they have very strong egos and they always think a lot of jerry and glenn
00:44:44
Speaker
So I think if it turned into like the Glenn show where, you know, he just kept Jerry kind of like a shoe to the side and told him I just play bass on my songs. I think eventually Jerry may have just thrown his hands up in a fit of frustration and he very well may have quit.
00:45:01
Speaker
Yeah, like maybe that wasn't satisfied jerry. Yeah. Yeah, he was one of I mean one of the faithful members who had been there from the start Essentially, he was one of the longest running members of the band next uh next to danzig Um, but I mean, you know, I think there would have just been a difference of a of artistic vision I think they were gone their separate ways um the way it played out I feel like
00:45:26
Speaker
you know, without going too much into the 90s and the Michael Graves era of the Misfits, I don't know if we want to touch on that at all. But I think during that time, had Glenn, I mean, Glenn was asked to come back.
00:45:41
Speaker
when they started, when they decided that they were gonna start performing under the Misfits again, under the Misfits name in the 90s. He was asked to come back and he decided to say, no, fuck you. And then they brought in Michael Graves. And I think had Glenn continued, if he had come back for the 90s, then it would have been exactly what you were describing, Corey. It would have been Glenn at the helm writing darker stuff with the band being tighter than ever. I mean, they welcomed it.
00:46:10
Speaker
But Glenn wanted nothing to do with it. So they brought on Michael. Well, you know, even Doyle's joked over the years, like, I only know five chords. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I know exactly what I have to play for our songs. But when you watch footage from 2016 and even more present compared to much, much older footage, you could tell he's got a better grasp of his instrument and these guys have grown over the years.
00:46:37
Speaker
and even watching the later
00:46:43
Speaker
I watched some footage last night from 2016 that was, that was really interesting. And, and Glenn still sounded good. You know, he's, he's bigger. He's older. He was having a harder time getting around. You know, I mean, I say that he, he seemed a little winded is what I would say, uh, which I would be too at that age, you know, it's part of life, uh, running around. There were big workout guys, man.
00:47:09
Speaker
Yeah, they look they look like. Yeah. But at some point, I think Danzig just decided, well, fuck it. I'm just going to let go and eat as much chicken wings and hamburgers and pizza as I can. And that's kind of what he looks like. Not the shit on the man and his physical appearance. But I think part of why he's not as good as a performer is because he's simply not taking care of himself. Yeah. Yeah. He went he went punk rock with his diet. Yeah, exactly.
00:47:38
Speaker
Fuck the man. I'll eat what I want to eat. Exactly. With that said, I've always really dug his voice and the power he sings with. You know, as a performer, you know, he's not he's not he's never been a run around, jump around guy that much. But it was really liked his voice. Put on a couple Elvis covers, didn't he?
00:48:04
Speaker
Yeah, Glenn's dancing stings Elvis and it was terrible. Oh, another guy. He didn't do any of like the popular hits. It was all obscure stuff, which is fine if you want to add your own aesthetic to the song and sort of making your own. I mean, that's that's fine. I welcome stuff like that when it comes to a lot of these artists, but it was just bad.
00:48:27
Speaker
just definitively just completely unlistable. One last question for the panel. Would the Misfits have become a legacy act continually touring on their classic material or would they have continued to innovate and evolve their sound? Or you want to take this one first?
00:48:47
Speaker
I'll take it first, because I imagine Chris will have a lot to say on this subject. A little bit. Obviously, the classic material is always going to be a part of a Misfit show, just like with any big band. I mean, if Metallica shows up and doesn't play in her Sandman, there'll be a riot outside, and it's going to be the same with the Misfits with about a dozen one-minute songs. More or less.
00:49:16
Speaker
more or less. But I do think they would have innovated. I do think if the misfits, this is of course assuming that they just stayed together and continued playing until they're old gray and wobbly. And if that's the case, you know, I think they branched into metal for a while in the late 80s through the mid 90s. And I think they're still doing things after that. But I'm thinking at that point, it becomes more of a
00:49:45
Speaker
you know, an album every four years or something and a tour here and there, relying mostly on the classical material, classic material, but always having, you know, a new record or a few new songs or something along the way. Just to kind of remind folks, they're there.
00:50:00
Speaker
yeah yeah like in the way older bands tour now they put out a new album they go on tour they play two songs from the new record because that's all the crowd will tolerate uh it's that way when you go see the stones it's that way when you go see the foo fighters it's that way to guns and roses show like yeah the new stuff's great but
00:50:19
Speaker
Shut the fuck up and get back to appetite for destruction, please. It's kind of the fan approach that you see when you're there. And I think that's probably where we just seen them go eventually. What do you think, Chris?
00:50:36
Speaker
I don't know. I don't want to be like a Debbie Denner, but I think they would have gone their separate ways at some point. I think if I had to stick to the criteria and say that they never broke up and they just consistently released music under the Misfits with the original lineup,
00:50:54
Speaker
I'd like to say that, or I think that you've pretty much nailed it, Corey. I think that they may have gotten a bit more diverse in terms of what they were playing as they became better musicians over time. I think that their style would have changed. I think a lot of their fans may have been, or may have been turned off by some of the new stuff that they wanted to bring into the band, whatever that may have been. I mean, if we continued on,
00:51:22
Speaker
with the original timeline and we saw the Misfits get into heavier, more slower, broodier sort of hits. I think a lot of their original audience, those who, you know, whoever was left may have felt like they'd been done dirty by the band.
00:51:42
Speaker
Um, so I think a lot, a lot of what you said, Corey rings true is that you can pepper in some new material, but really what the fans want to hear from a legacy act is the, is that. So I think then what you said is more or less exactly what I would agree with.
00:51:58
Speaker
I don't think that they would have stayed together all those years personally. I think because of creative differences and an endlessly rotating cast of musicians within the band, I think would have been the nail in the coffin for them. At the same time, I feel like a lot of their campiness and what they were doing at the time that was deemed edgy would have been, what may have just fallen by the wayside enough and is appreciated by newer audiences.
00:52:25
Speaker
But I think that, yeah, as a legacy band, if they stuck together, I think we'd be seeing what we're seeing now with Riot Fest and the handful of shows they played around the country. Now they'd get together, they'd play the Dan Zigerra stuff off those three albums, and that would have been it.
Innovation vs Classic Material
00:52:42
Speaker
I think you're probably right. That's kind of what I would say too, that there's just not
00:52:51
Speaker
People don't want to see to hear new music from us now now There are exceptions to that like the stones putting out an album that is actually relevant in their 80s this last month Which is nuts and and it's it's it's good It's it's good music and it's the stones Which is crazy, but most bands aren't the stones. Oh You know
00:53:18
Speaker
And I wouldn't want to accuse the misfits of being either and and if they were they wouldn't be what they are Anyways, is the truth of the map that that whole That that little bit of campiness you talked about is is part of what made them so freakin cool. Yeah 100% Before we before we get off here. I just want to real quick. What's what's your favorite misfit? So Yeah had to pick one your desert island misfit song
00:53:49
Speaker
Astro Zombies. Nice. That's a good choice. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's fast. It has a great chorus. It's everything you want from the three core punk rock song. Yeah. Yeah. That's, it's a great pick. You can't go wrong. What about you? For me, damn, it's hard.
00:54:12
Speaker
I keep wanting to say it's either and then list five songs is the problem. Oh, see that's not fair. That's not fair. That's not right. That's terrible. You held crystal one. I'll be honest. It's probably last caress. Okay. It was, it was my first misfit song I ever heard. I heard it on Metallica's five 98 garage days, re revisited EP back in like 85. I didn't hear an 85, but that that's,
00:54:39
Speaker
That album was my first exposure to it. And that song for like an eight year old listening to, you know, I killed your baby today. It's about rape and infanticide. I mean, yeah, it's it is. And the thing is, it's just catchy as hell. It's it's fun. It's not like this downer song. It's very upbeat, but I guess to a fault. Yeah. The subject matter is crazy.
00:55:05
Speaker
I have, I have, I have others that I have, you know, a deeper attachment to as well. But, but if, if I'm thinking of the one that makes me want to like, you know, even at 43 years old, you know, bounce around the kitchen and, you know, pogo to the fridge, I would say that it's, it's glass caress. Glass caress. Yeah.
Favorite Songs and Closing Remarks
00:55:23
Speaker
For me, I think the two of us would agree as an honorable mention to not forget attitude. Yeah, you can't forget attitude. Can't forget it. You can't forget attitude. You can't forget teenagers from Mars. I love teenagers from Mars. That was a big one, too, which are really bullet. Oh.
00:55:44
Speaker
The JFK assassination. I am. And if you look at if you look, the lyrics, yeah, pretty crazy. Oh, died. I my darling was a great. Yeah. I turned into Martians, skulls. She was there for God's sake where he goes. There's another great one. Oh, that that's. I think we talked about hybrid moments being one of my favorite ones as well.
00:56:12
Speaker
See, we just did the thing. We've now listed like 11 Misfits songs for our Deseret. I feel like we should get three because the truth is these songs are all short. Yes. We could fit a ton of them on. Three is still what, under five minutes? Yeah. Three is still over five minutes. Yeah. Probably right about there is what I would say. Fair enough. Goodness.
00:56:37
Speaker
All right, well, I'd like to thank everyone again who joined us today. We appreciate all the views and comments we got on the last What If, and like you guys to please subscribe, like us, hit us up with your comments. Like us.
00:56:53
Speaker
the the the
00:57:15
Speaker
So we hope you join us next time. In the meantime, visit a website armchairrockstar.com and give us a follow on YouTube and all the other social platforms. We'd love to hear your thoughts on what could have happened if the tables turned as well. So comment away and we'll chime in to keep the discussion going. Thanks everybody for joining us. Thanks guys.