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What if Rick Rubin Never Gave Red Hot Chili Peppers a Second Chance?
16 Plays1 year ago
🎸🌹 Welcome to Episode 4 of "Rock n Roll What Ifs" by Armchair Rockstar! In today's journey, we explore an alternate universe where Guns N' Roses never broke up. Imagine a world where the iconic lineup of Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy, and Steven stayed together, forging an unbroken path in rock history.
🤘 What new heights could they have reached?
🎤 How would their continued presence have reshaped the music industry?
🎵 And what legendary albums might we have seen?
Join us as we dive deep into this fascinating "What If" scenario, featuring expert interviews, unheard demos, and fan theories that will blow your mind! Uncover the possibilities, the music that could've been, and the impact on rock n roll.
💬 Share your thoughts in the comments! What do you think Guns N' Roses would have achieved? Don't forget to like, subscribe, and hit the bell for more rockin' episodes!
🔔 Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/c/ArmchairRockstar
📺 Watch Previous Episodes: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9xY_Af4b5zc4Z_f0DEipE4Lu6e38Byg0
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Transcript
Introduction: Rick Rubin and RHCP Question
00:00:06
Speaker
Hey, everybody. I'm Shane with Armchair Rockstar. Thanks for joining us again today. We will be discussing, what if Rick Rubin never gave the Red Hot Chili Peppers a second chance? Joining me as always, our editor-in-chief, Corey Knowles. Hey, what's up, everybody? And also joining us, one of our friends and featured contributors to armchairrockstar.com, Aaron Bond.
00:00:33
Speaker
What's up, guys? So the question in front of us tonight is what if Rick Rubin never gave the Red Hot Chili Peppers a second chance?
Initial Rejection and Inevitable Collaboration
00:00:45
Speaker
Yeah. You know, just for some background here real quick, the thing that led us to coming up with this question was it's actually an interview with Anthony Kiedis on Rogan talking about it, but it's been told before.
00:01:00
Speaker
That that Rick Rubin actually went and checked the Chili's out in like 1985 and he came to their rehearsal space with a couple of people he sat down and they're playing music or doing whatever they're doing and he just got up and
00:01:16
Speaker
and noped the hell right out, and wouldn't answer calls, wouldn't respond later on. Anthony Caddis had the opportunity to ask him and he said, I was afraid someone was going to get murdered in that room. He said it was just that nuts. It was so volatile and this is at a time when their addictions are at their peak and maybe not at their peak, but
00:01:39
Speaker
Certainly they were of a concerning level and they take this and and he just noped out. So it's not without the outside of the realm of possibility that he would have never taken their call again after that. So that's why we're here is what's different if they don't. Rick Rubin doesn't take their call at some point.
00:02:04
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's inevitable that the two were going to come back together at some point because the Chili's were doing the LA circuit. Jane's Addiction and the Red Hot Chili Peppers were kind of the two big LA bands at the time and they were all playing the same venues.
00:02:22
Speaker
I know Anthony Kita said that there was just like a dark energy around that time when Rick Rubin came in and even realized it at the time, but it's true just, you know, the lifestyle that they had. But as Anthony got clean, I don't know what Flea was into, but I feel like it's really hard for him to have a dark energy no matter what he's doing. He's such a likeable guy. The fact that they were continuing that LA circuit is like,
00:02:52
Speaker
they and Rick Rubin were gonna bump into each other eventually. And when the time was right, it did happen. And it was always gonna happen for me because of that. Unless they didn't get clean and they didn't continue playing music together. But if they were gonna continue on that upper trajectory, like it's two paths crossing, it's just inevitable. Yeah. Maybe.
Perfect Timing for Reunion
00:03:20
Speaker
The thing is,
00:03:22
Speaker
It's funny how many things in life just have to happen right for two people to be in that right place at the right time. I do believe that they reconnected at the perfect juncture in their career. Because when you go back and listen to the early albums, there was a lot of maturing that was needed musically among them. It was very different. It's still good. It's still solid music and still holds up, but you can really tell they're coming into their own. Now, except Flea.
00:03:50
Speaker
For whatever reason, Flea was born playing like he does, I guess. I don't know. I think that's just where it came from. But it's really interesting to me because I feel like it could have not happened. And if it doesn't, there are so many things that are different. Step one is what happens at the blood sugar sex magic point if Rick Rubin is not involved?
Musical Evolution: Flea's Influence
00:04:20
Speaker
I think though, let me backtrack to what you were saying about flea. I think between the freaky style and the blood sugar sex magic, there's actually a lot of growth by flea. So, going back and listening to those two today in prep for this, it was like, huh?
00:04:40
Speaker
It is really interesting to listen to those back to back and hear that growth. Yeah, I do tend to agree because flee had a jazz background. He had a punk background as well. If I'm not mistaken, he played in the band fear for a little while.
00:04:56
Speaker
So he had that in his locker, that versatility, always. And I think it was John Frishante that really helped bring out that more melodic side, because obviously he can just crush the slap bass. He still does it. If you listen to some of the later stuff,
00:05:15
Speaker
like Goodbye Angels on the Getaway album. Like the ending to that song is just him with a bass solo just crushing a slap bass solo. So I mean he still does that stuff.
00:05:31
Speaker
I think what Frashante brought out in him was the ability to be more melodic with it. And you see that in leaps and bounds, in Blood Sugar Sex Magic, especially a little bit on Mother's Milk. I consider Mother's Milk to be more of like a transition album.
Transformation with Blood Sugar Sex Magic
00:05:50
Speaker
Uplift Mofo Party was very much the end of one era for them, I think. And then Mother's Milk is when Chad and Frishante came on. They were still kind of finding their feet. And I think like Frishante, in particular, was still copying Hillel Slovak's style at that time. Yeah. So it was it was funky.
00:06:14
Speaker
You know it wasn't as melodic as obviously blood sugar so by the time that they came to do that second album they were all in tune with each other a little bit more and they learn from each other and you have that kind of perfect mix at that point and it just so happened that that's when Rick Rubin came in and all the pieces kind of fell into place at once.
00:06:37
Speaker
Yeah, and it's really interesting. Mother's Milk, for me, that's my Chili's, if that makes sense. That was my first Chili's record as a kid, and I probably bought it because there was a topless woman on the front. If I had to guess, I had not heard a song. I did a lot of that as a kid. But one of the things that's really interesting, and since you bring up for Shanti, is that on Mother's Milk, it's
00:07:04
Speaker
it's hard rock guitar it's distortion it's and then you transition over to blood sugar sex magic and suddenly it's clean tones out of what's out of a stratocaster.
00:07:17
Speaker
And such a Stratocaster sound, you know, it's jangly, it's light, it's trebly. And that transition from, you know, like higher ground and knock me down, there are these killer power chords and stuff going on in there. And that just doesn't exist when you get to Blood Sugar Sex Magic. It just almost totally transcends into that melodic, clean guitar tone that frankly changed them forever.
00:07:45
Speaker
Absolutely. And that was Reuben's influence, a lot of it, because their previous producer, Michael Bainhorn, he actually said he wanted more metal edge to it. So he went on to produce
00:08:01
Speaker
at least one album by Soundgarden and a couple of other like grunge, you know, heavier bands like in the in the 90s. So he was really pushing for that metal edge. So it's interesting that you really picked up on that in Mother's Milk versus the the cleaner tones in Blood Sugar. So that that could be down primarily to the difference between Bainhorn and Rick Rubin. Yeah, yeah, very well. Do you think
00:08:28
Speaker
I think it's kind of obvious question, but don't you think that Rick was able to pull more from them as artists and get more out of them by asking the right questions and hearing the right things? Absolutely.
00:08:44
Speaker
Yeah, you know, and the other thing about what we were just discussing there is that. The sonic landscape of the Chili Peppers is different than most bands, because you have Flea who plays bass like he's a lead guitar lead guitarist, you know, so the bass is taking up much more sonic landscape than it does in, you know, a traditional do do do do.
00:09:11
Speaker
you know, kind of standard, you know, walking bass type lines. So what's interesting is that when you get rid of the distorted guitars, which live in those same frequencies and switch over here to this high pitched Stratocaster tone, they live much more separately. And you really feel that if you listen to, you know,
00:09:34
Speaker
take, uh, take, take suck my kiss and knock me down. And, and you can really see that it's like, like what for Shante, what his transition did also created like this little, little nest for, uh, for fleet to sit in and really make his base stand out as well.
00:09:52
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you look at a song like Naked in the Rain on Mother's Milk versus like, obviously like Under the Bridge from Blood Sugar, it's just night and day, that difference. And I think you're right. I think you're on to something.
00:10:06
Speaker
with that sonic landscape and how the frequencies are living sort of in the same place. But another thing about blood sugar, what made it so different is I know for Shante said it was like one of the happiest times in his life. And I think part of that was due to the fact that they rented out
00:10:27
Speaker
Like a mansion around Hollywood or like somewhere in California anyway, because they said, you know, they they've done the studio thing several times. And they just didn't enjoy it. They didn't enjoy the experience. So they just rented out this house and they were kind of free to be creative. And I think that's what Ruben does as well.
00:10:46
Speaker
is he allows the space for the musicians to do what they do and creates kind of a safe space for better lack of a term for them to thrive and just live in that creative moment.
00:11:00
Speaker
You know, it's an interesting analogy here is when you think about the Ramones did end of the century with Phil Spector. And in that record, I heard somebody say once, I don't remember who it is, somebody will say in the comments. Instead of Phil Spector coming to where the Ramones were, the Ramones kind of went to Phil Spector in a way that like the music became more spectory and not just a grown up Ramones.
00:11:29
Speaker
where what Ruben does is very much the opposite of that. Ruben, you can't record for bands like Run DMC, Johnny Cash, and Slayer, and incorporate so much of your cell phone to it. It's like what he does is come in and pull it out of them in a way. I've heard stories about search tanking.
00:11:54
Speaker
chop suey there's there's an interview where they're talking about it and they get to that point where it's like father why have you forsaken me and all that and and and surge tells a story about how rick told him to grab a book off his shelf random book flip it open to a page and they flipped it open and they got to that line and he just sang it
00:12:13
Speaker
into the song. It wasn't something they wrote, it was something they just grabbed with this random chance. And it's not a Reuben stamp as so much as it is Reuben, the psychologist and magical mingler of brains.
Rubin's Creative Psychology
00:12:31
Speaker
Well, and if I remember correctly, if I remember correctly from that Phil Spector, that was a very confrontational relationship and not a very friendly one at that. A couple of them were not fans. I want to say Johnny Markey, I think. Well, he was a controlling dude. Yeah. I know John Lennon said that when he had Phil Spector at his house, it's like,
00:12:58
Speaker
They were eating breakfast and they're just like chatting and having a good time. And then Phil Spector comes downstairs and everybody just shuts up. It's like, you know, they're all, they're all intimidated by it. Even, even back then, before all the bullshit, you know, like, like before he may or may not have, uh, killed someone allegedly.
00:13:19
Speaker
It's really interesting because it's such a small world and there are all these differences you can see from one to the next. But Ruben Forever changed the Chili's. I don't know if it was giving them the instruction and musical maturity that they needed at that point to be able to find their direction. But Aaron, do you know how many albums he's done with them? He's done a bunch, right?
00:13:45
Speaker
I believe it's five studio albums, at least. So he did Blood Sugar and then he did One Hot Minute. He did everything up to The Getaway, which was Josh Klinghoffer's second album with them after John left for the second time.
00:14:02
Speaker
Because apparently Josh Klinghoffer did not get along with Rick Rubin at all. In fact, he had some very choice words for him. He said, like they got in an argument and he said, you know, I'm just trying to, like Rick said, I'm just trying to make the music the best it could be. And he said he was thinking in his mind, then order a driver to come here and take you home.
00:14:28
Speaker
Ouch. You know, I'll be honest, I don't want to be placed in a situation where I would have to choose between my guitarist and Rick Rubin being the producer of my record. At that point, Rubin had a lot more clout than Josh Lindhofer did. Yeah, for sure. I mean, the Chili's
00:14:50
Speaker
stood by and cling offer instead of being like, Whoa, son, this is the kingmaker, you know, like, yeah, don't ruffle his feathers. He's going to drive you nuts. That's his job. You should hate him by the time the album's done. Yeah, you know, maybe he was just pissed that the first album didn't get the reception that he wanted. I'm sure there was some tension there. You know, it's been used to fill when
00:15:17
Speaker
you're trying to replace John Fichante, right? And yes, the band stood by him as far as the producer, but when John said he wanted to come back to the band, they ousted Josh immediately. And brought back Rick.
00:15:33
Speaker
and brought back Rick. That says a lot right there. Yeah. Yeah. You know, there's, there's a lot of bands that, that he's kind of the, the unofficial extra member. Yeah. You know, I was looking through his discography this morning and I, I kept coming through like, I'm like, cool. So he did King of Rock with, with Run DMC, did the Beastie Boys.
00:15:55
Speaker
But he also did Rain and Blood in South of Heaven with Slayer two years later. You know, that's so, so, so crazy. And I'm looking through here and I'm seeing Dan's first record. Yeah. His 80s work is insane. Andrew Dye's The Day the Laughter Died is one of the craziest recordings ever. Yeah. Oh, the ghetto boys first album. We got Wolfsbane. We got more Slayer, more Slayer. So mix a lot.
00:16:23
Speaker
The cult. Yeah, several cult records in here. Joan Jett and the Black Arts. I mean, then we get to we're not even talking yet about Tom Petty, Nine Inch Nails, Johnny Cash. I mean, I mean, to go from Run DMC to Slayer to the Red Hot Chili Peppers to Johnny Cash and an acoustic album, mostly a heavily like rootsy album in Wildflowers with Tom Petty.
00:16:54
Speaker
Like, in the normal world, when you deal with producers, they're rock producers, they're rap producers, they're contemporary Christian producers. They don't generally do albums with everything or any more. Go cross genre.
00:17:15
Speaker
It is. System of a down. Oh my god, I'm still in the 90s. That is so crazy. Just look at the Sheryl Crow. Yeah. That is such a... Well, let me ask a pre-Rubin's question. Okay. With some band changes. So aside from the stylistic changes,
00:17:38
Speaker
Do you guys think that Chad and John were more versed at their instruments than Hillel and I guess it was drummer Jack Irons at the time? Yeah, that's a great question. So, I mean, here's the deal. Yes. And that's because at that point, the Chili's had gotten to a point where they could kind of take any drummer and any guitarist they wanted.
00:18:03
Speaker
They were going to be more professional technically musicians than who they had when they started the band out. When you've gotten to a certain level of fame, you can pick and choose who you want to join. Chad obviously was a great musician in his own right when he joined the Chili's. He was pretty young, Prashante even younger, 18 at that point.
00:18:32
Speaker
which shows you just how good and how talented he is naturally to be 18 years old.
00:18:42
Speaker
I think he's five to seven years younger than the rest of them to come in. Because it was an audition in LA. So to be able to beat out every other LA guitarist and them say, okay, we want you, that's pretty impressive. So I mean, yeah, they were better at their instruments because they were able to get that talent at that point in time. Yeah.
00:19:10
Speaker
That's interesting. I'd also like to voice a protest right now that that no one was interested in doing this podcast in socks. I feel like if we're going to cover the chili socks, where? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I'm not putting those socks. You're not wearing yours.
00:19:29
Speaker
Oh, you know, you can only see my top half. I mean, hey, you know, I came prepared. I came prepared. We can... Yes, just know, below the frames, we're stalking. I can stand up right now. I must have not gotten that email. Yeah, sure you didn't.
00:19:49
Speaker
You know, another, another interesting Reuben take here is that you always hear the story.
'Under the Bridge' and Kiedis's Transformation
00:19:54
Speaker
Keetus has told it a bunch of times. Reuben's told it that, you know, he kept getting, getting Anthony to pull out his notebooks and be like, show me all your songs. Show me all your songs. Show me all your songs. And, uh, and then one of them, he came to this and Keetus was like, this is just a little sensitive guy poem I wrote. And it turns out to be under the bridge. So no Reuben arguably means.
00:20:17
Speaker
that the Chili Peppers did not record the single biggest song they ever recorded. The song that took them from small clubs to arenas and stadiums. That was the crossover song that brings their style of music to top 40.
00:20:39
Speaker
and puts them in front of John Q Public and a lot of people who would absolutely not have given a band who came out with an album that all sounded like Give It Away, they would never have given them a chance. You've got this new fan base and suddenly they have mass appeal that they never had. Do you think, how does No Under the Bridge impact the future of the Chili Peppers?
00:21:04
Speaker
Oh, yeah. And you know what, that opened up even. So yeah, it was a huge hit. But at the same time, I think what's maybe even bigger than that is that was the first time that Anthony had really opened up in his songwriting because I mean, before that, look, it's it's all about having a good time. You know, you've got the song. Good time, boys. I mean, you know, you've got sex rap, you've got yurtle the turtle, you know, it's it's not deep.
00:21:33
Speaker
And no one thinks of Anthony as a shy person, but he at that point still hadn't exposed that side of himself and written a song where he was talking about how lonely he was, how sad he was, you know, reflecting on his addiction and
00:21:53
Speaker
That was just not part of their repertoire at that point. So yeah, it was a huge hit, but it was by no means a one-hit wonder. That started this meteoric climb that they've had ever since.
00:22:10
Speaker
Shortly after that, I mean, yeah, you have Californication, which has got so much more of that. It's got deeper lyrics. It's got, you know, it's obviously more melodic musically. But yeah, I think that's really what opened the door for that depth of the lyrics. And
00:22:28
Speaker
Help the band also come together more cuz uh, you know, um, I keep talking about for shanti because you know He's he's my favorite member of the band. I think he's one of the most talented artists. Uh, you know of of the last couple of uh decades, um, you know, his solo stuff is incredible, um
00:22:46
Speaker
I know had a bit of a rift with with Anthony because they come from totally different worlds. You know, Anthony, like, I saw an interview where Anthony was saying like, john just operates differently, like, he can come out with all of this incredible music, like right from his soul, like, you know, the he's connected to the muse 24 seven, but he doesn't have a driver's license, like he doesn't know how to drive a car.
00:23:12
Speaker
You know what I mean? And so it's like they kind of, they helped each other in that Anthony was able to get that mass appeal to a more general audience and kind of show this creativity and virtuosity of Flea and John and Chad. And it seemed like John wasn't getting much back from that, but a song like Under the Bridge showed the poet
00:23:41
Speaker
kind of inside of Anthony and maybe made them a little bit closer, you know, just that connection between the band members and helped with their friendship and the ultimate longevity of the band.
00:23:54
Speaker
For sure. On a flip side though, wasn't there a point, one of the times for Shante left, wasn't it due to kind of a series of creative differences between he and Flea, where he wanted to go a more melodic route, probably much more in the direction of what his solo music is.
00:24:14
Speaker
where Flea wanted to stick more to that classic, you know, flappy funk, party music kind of feel and that that difference played a role in one of his exits from the band.
Creative Differences and Band Dynamics
00:24:26
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I'm not sure because everything that I've seen from them, like all the interviews are pretty vague. I mean, from what I understand, like, you know, when he left the first time, I think it was in like 94, 93, 94.
00:24:44
Speaker
John's drug addiction was really ramping up. Anthony had been sober for a little while. I know that there were differences, especially between John and Anthony and then Flea was pissed off at John because he couldn't mend that fence. But as far as the musical direction, I'm not too sure.
00:25:08
Speaker
It's interesting. I can't remember where I saw that. I think it was on punk rock NBA. He does. He did a little like a shorter kind of documentary run through. And it was one of the things that came up that that struck me as interesting because I guess I think of it as the difference in like for me, like Give It Away feels flea. Like that's a flea type song where when I think John Frishanti, I think More Under the Bridge, I think Zephyr.
00:25:35
Speaker
Yeah. Things like that. Well, apparently Zephyr was on One Hot Minute, which Navarro played on. Oh, I didn't even know that. So, you know, I'm not sure. Navarro is in the video for it. I'm not sure if John had already worked out the guitar parts and they had worked on that, like, pre-Navarro.
00:25:58
Speaker
But I know the finished product was definitely Navarro on guitar, which is an interesting one too. Because when I go back and listen to One Hot Minute,
00:26:09
Speaker
Like it really holds up even though it's, you know, Navarro was only on one album, you know, songs like Coffee Shop and Walkabout and of course Zephyr Song. I mean, they're staples and they hold up for me. So it's an interesting dynamic. Apparently, like they said, they had creative differences and it wasn't working out. But I mean, you know, what if Navarro had stayed on? I wonder what the direction would have been
00:26:37
Speaker
Yeah, because stylistically Navarro's, you know, for sure makes it a bar or pretty far apart. Yeah. Stylistically. So that would have been an interesting take getting a second album out with Navarro.
00:26:53
Speaker
You know what, and in redoing all this, Navarro never crossed my mind once in preparing for this. But he is such, he's an interesting fit for them. Now, creatively, where that lands, I'm not sure.
00:27:08
Speaker
Yeah, I love for Shanti. I feel like for Shanti plays with a a unique style like like it's always so clean. Like like I always think, you know, I'm not hearing I don't even hardly hear amp drive. It's just so clean what he's doing. And it's weird for such, you know, fast paced hot songs to be that clean. But I guess that's probably that funk influence that
00:27:35
Speaker
you know, he can play a lot. And, you know, I saw a video recently of him playing when he was like, 1617. And he was doing some Eddie Van Halen stuff. I mean, you know, he was, he was doing tapping. I mean, it was like, almost, you know, 80s hair metal to, to
00:27:55
Speaker
even a little bit of thrash in there. So you don't see any of that on the Chili's albums. You certainly don't see it in his solo albums, but it shows that he had that ability at such a young age. And if you look at someone like Jimi Hendrix, it's the perfect kind of combination of technicality and then emotion and soul. And I think- I think his shit is hard.
00:28:23
Speaker
His songs are hard to play on guitar. It took me forever to get through under the bridge. I'm only halfway through under the bridge. What's the other one? Snow. Oh yeah. Snow has got this really fast picking thing. All throughout. Yes, all through the song.
00:28:47
Speaker
It's just tens of thousands of opportunities for me to fall on my face. And I never fail. I always have to fall through on that song. If you're playing it solo and so you're having to do the vocals and you're having to do the guitar work, which is so intricate, it's a really hard combination.
00:29:07
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah, it would be a terrible like acoustic guitar and a guy song like to sit there because it's hard enough to sing and play it once, you know, because you've you've you've got multiple rhythms going on. You've got two hands to worry about and your words and your pitch and your tempo and strumming pattern. There's so many things to go wrong in a song like that is just ridiculously hard. So so back to Ruben. Yeah.
00:29:37
Speaker
Why we're here. Back to Ruben Woods.
Rubin's Production Vision
00:29:43
Speaker
It's even more impressive what he's done in his career knowing that he didn't come from an engineering background at all. Yeah. He's not an audio engineer. Like you said, he's a psychologist. He operates in the mind of bands.
00:30:05
Speaker
And I'm wondering how that translates to his success and how much of
00:30:14
Speaker
influence he actually has in the engineering side of it. I know that in the last couple of Chili's albums, he was working pretty closely on the master recording right at the end. How much influence does he have in that side? Is he actually sitting there turning knobs or is
00:30:36
Speaker
is he there as the brain with rogan referred to it as the magic in talking about regret is just got this magic there's an interesting piece with room and and i think it's mccartney and they're reviewing different. Pieces of music and.
00:30:55
Speaker
Ruben picking out things is it's a it's a good watch. Wow. So I think yes, I've seen that part psychologist, but I also think he just has that natural ear to hear things.
00:31:12
Speaker
And here, not just what it is, but what it could be like, rehabbing houses or rebuilding old cars. You have to have this ability to walk in and see this pile of shit laying there that looks like a mess. But you've got to be able to tell that, you know, what if I did this and I did this and I did this?
00:31:33
Speaker
that's not just a pile of nuts and bolts anymore with a bunch of rust that's a screaming machine running down the highway and and i think that's what he has that ability to see
00:31:44
Speaker
the sum of the parts and not just the parts and what it is that if properly melded and interlaced what they can become. And he does it like no one else. I mean, you know, there wasn't rap before Rick Rubin really, like there was rap.
00:32:04
Speaker
But it was not on the radio. It was something guys in Brooklyn did outside their homes and in little clubs and on the side of the street. And he took that. Not only did he do that, he then took it and shoved him in a studio with Aerosmith and was like, hey, let's stick these together, see what happens. And then took heat from both sides. Yes, yes. The rap community gave him heat over that.
00:32:31
Speaker
Everyone was pissed and and what it was was was great. It was the future. You know, I mean, you know, eventually it's a genre. So, you know, is it that he has this magic? And I believe he does. But or is it the ability to see trends before they happen?
00:32:52
Speaker
I think maybe that is what it is, is this ability to see, you know, because you've also got to know what are people listening to? What are they like? And then not just what is this shitty Top 40 music I'm hearing, but what is it in that music that is
00:33:10
Speaker
that is drawing them is it is it some specific type progression is it is it always a four to one drop is it a is it is it you know plan and minor chords is there's a variety of different things is it auto tune you know but i think he has your right that ability to to go to even pop music and recognize what in there is is
00:33:37
Speaker
Tickling the fancy of John Q public for lack of a better way to put it Yeah, cuz you know funk rock wasn't really a thing at the time Rick Rubin picked up on on the Chili's Obviously rap wasn't a thing at the time before Rick Rubin picked it up
00:33:52
Speaker
I was going to say parliament might have to say, might have something to say. Yeah. Well, that's true. That's true. And you know what, they got the, the Chili's got the foremost musician to produce Freaky Stylie and George Clinton. And you know what exactly, as far as Freaky Stylie goes, you were saying that like,
00:34:18
Speaker
They were still on this progression to maturity, but I feel like Freaky Stylie was almost a mature version of the style that they had at that time. You know, like with Hillel Slovak, you know, as far as, you know, Anthony's chops as far as rapping, you know, Flea obviously still killing it at the base at that point, you know, which gave it that funk sensibility.
00:34:46
Speaker
So I think in that genre where they were at that time, it's actually pretty mature. And like I said, they got George Clinton and like the the best possible person you could get for that genre. Yeah. And it you know, that was that was kind of their their magnum opus as far as that genre goes.
00:35:04
Speaker
and then they had to move on and they had to diversify their sound, which has become a staple of Red Hot Chili Peppers music. I just thought there was such a leap between Freaky Stylie and Blood Sugar Sex Magic, those two albums specifically, especially in the production value because you can hear Anthony's vocals a lot.
Vocal Evolution of Kiedis
00:35:30
Speaker
It's clear there's a little more growl to his voice.
00:35:35
Speaker
It's kind of more like the Chili's we know now versus the old party group. Well, Ruben might do things like come out and say, you know what, do it again, do it again, do it again, do it again to the point that you're pissed and angry. You know, sometimes it's about eliciting the right emotion at the moment you're saying, and I believe a good producer can draw that out of you, like tell you to go outside and run around the block three times, then come in and
00:36:05
Speaker
Do it right now. While your heart's at 140 beats per minute, I want it while you're angry, while you're winded. I want the passion. And that's the kind of thing a good producer can really pull out. And Ruben is a master of that. Well, you know what? He had his work cut out for him with Anthony Kiedis. Because moving from rap to doing a song like Under the Bridge, I mean, or Breaking the Girl, it's
00:36:34
Speaker
is so far out of his wheelhouse. He did not come on as a singer. He is very much like Mick Jagger in that he's a front man. He's not necessarily a singer. Yeah, David Lee Ross at Way 2. Yeah. I once posted on social media in a Red Hot Chili Peppers fan group just to troll and piss people off. And I said,
00:36:58
Speaker
Anthony Giddes is one of the top five rock singers of the last 30 years. Like, clearly.
00:37:14
Speaker
Yeah, that'll trigger him. And it did, you know, it pissed people off because, you know, he's he's not a singer by nature. So Rick Rubin coming in and trying to get the best out of every single band member. I think I remember watching in the Funky Monks documentary that was so great. Yeah, it was about the recording of Blood Sugar. Like Anthony is just over and over and over again trying to nail under the bridge.
00:37:39
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And just you just keep pushing. And sometimes the takes you're getting are perfectly fine. But sometimes it's it's it's what you want to capture that. You know, you want that voice where it's it's kind of like a good tube amp where you get right to the edge of it crackling, but you don't cross it.
00:37:59
Speaker
You're right at that edge and yeah, such a good producer can really pull that out of guys. Like, oh, who's a good example? Never mind. Sorry, my brain just went empty. Yeah, I mean, for Anthony, it's not even about getting the perfect take, it's about staying on pitch.
00:38:20
Speaker
If he can be somewhere in key, then he's doing pretty well. Within a half step, that's all we need. I saw a recent video of him doing a cover of Smells Like Teen Spirit. Oh, I saw that! And to be honest, it was terrible.
00:38:50
Speaker
That's a statement coming from you, sir. I know the regard with which you hold your chili peppers. Oh, for sure. And the regard I hold, you know, every band that I appreciate and respect, and if any band is going to do a cover of it, you know, I expect them to do it well.
00:39:08
Speaker
Yeah, and they did not do that well. They did not or he did not? No, Frishante was great in his parts, but Anthony, I think he forgot the lyrics at some point. I don't know if he even really knew the song. We didn't even know him in the 90s for a while.
00:39:28
Speaker
When it came on television before you had like a CD with a lyric sheet, it was it was a little difficult, you know. Yeah. But, you know, and speaking to that, you know, their cover of Fire by Jimmy Andrews, you know, I mean, OK, so you like that. Obviously, like from your reaction, you think it was a good cover. I do. I enjoyed it. Here's the deal. It's very different at certain parts. It becomes a Chili Peppers song.
00:39:59
Speaker
But they held it through through most of it. You feel like, yeah, we can play this, but we're going to put our own spin on it anyway. And that's what they did. And I'm OK with that. You look at it's less drastic.
00:40:12
Speaker
But if you look at Shine Down's cover of Simple Man, it's pretty true. But the guitar parts are mixed up a little. There's a little more passion at some different places. There are elements that are different. Now, fire is considerably different from Jimmy. However,
00:40:34
Speaker
I feel like it just captured the right essence with the 80s chili spin. And I've always felt like like for me, one of the reasons that I believe the chilies remain relevant is because they started 10 years earlier than they were. The world was ready for like what the chili peppers were doing.
00:40:53
Speaker
You know, it makes sense that coming out of the 70s where funk was a thing, raps taking off and heavy metals coming up through Hollywood in a big way, that you would have this convergence of these styles. And it's there and it was good, but the rest of the world wasn't ready for what Hollywood was doing yet with them specifically. And I feel like
00:41:17
Speaker
Blood Sugar Sex Magic was the world catching up to Chili Peppers. It was them reaching peak musical maturity with combining with a world that was ready for that because then we've had grunge.
00:41:36
Speaker
You know, before that, you're listening to the Chili Peppers in the time when Total Eclipse of the Heart was like a top 10 song and stuff like that, where the contrast is so much different than it is in an age of bands like Cake, for example, who are a little weird and a little kind of in that realm.
00:41:58
Speaker
Yeah, they're catchy. They're weird, but they're catchy. Yeah, weird, but like you find yourself, it's like Clutch. One of those bands that I never super, super got into, but I'll hear a song and I'll be like, yeah. Since we're going to digress on the cake, I thought their first album was really awesome.
00:42:20
Speaker
I like the first album. Yeah. I do. It was solid. And there have been plenty of good ones of theirs over the years since then. I don't know how we got here, though. Well, OK. So I wanted to give a raise of Rick Rubin.
00:42:36
Speaker
I wanted to give my thoughts on fire. So, I mean, I agree. It was a decent cover, but I disagree where you say that they kept the heart of it or they kept the essence of it because it was so sped up. The thing about fire is it's supposed to be sexy.
00:43:00
Speaker
it's got this groove to it and it's like, hey girl, let me stand next to your fire. But they made it almost like a punk song. It's like a little too fast. It's like a good lovemaking session. It's got to be at the- It's all about pace. It's all about the right cadence. Also, the thing about a
00:43:26
Speaker
great cover or a top cover is it becomes the quintessential version. You know, look at all along the watchtower, right?
00:43:41
Speaker
knocking on heaven's door when Guns N' Roses redid it. There you go. It was better than Bob Dylan's. For some reason, everybody does Bob Dylan songs better than Bob Dylan. Yeah, exactly. Actually, yeah, I forget all on the Watchtower. We're still thinking about Dylan songs. He tees it up and then the band's knocking it out of the park.
00:44:03
Speaker
So Hurt by Johnny Cash. A really tough one is Sound of Silence by Disturbed because I mean, come on Simon and Garfunkel, that's a classic and you can't get better than that, but man Disturbed just brought this
00:44:26
Speaker
totally new aspect to it. And you know what? The Chili's did that with Higher Ground by Stevie Wonder as well. For me, Chili's Higher Ground is the quintessential version. Yeah, that is so great. Hot take here. I don't like disturbed cover of Sound of Silence.
00:44:44
Speaker
All right, shots fired. All right. Yeah, somebody's going to come at me for this. I'll have I'll have people with signs in the yard tomorrow. But I don't know what it is. I just couldn't get it. With that said, their cover of Land of Confusion by Genesis is like one of the best my favorite covers ever. So, you know, yeah, it's and where does fire fall in that? I mean, it's
00:45:10
Speaker
It is not the version of that song. I mean, Jimmy is still the king of that song. You're right. You're right. That's still Jimmy's song. That's still Jimmy's song. I agree. Who the hell is going to take that away from Jimmy?
00:45:25
Speaker
You can't take anything away from Jim. I think that's the problem, is the fact that they tried to cover a Jimmy song in the first place. You know, there are certain people I always hear people try to cover. You ever notice you don't hear a lot of ACDC covers? Yeah. Because there aren't people who sing like that. Except for like... Voice is not a thing that other bands do. You know who can cover ACDC like...
00:45:51
Speaker
Axl. Axl Rose. Well, actually he sang for ACDC on tour for a year. He was ACDC's singer for one summer. And it was really, really, really good. He broke his leg and borrowed Dave Grohl's throne from when Grohl broke his leg.
00:46:08
Speaker
But he was not letting that ruin his chance at being the lead vocals for his childhood favorite band. Well, I will say your average drunk frat guy does a pretty good job at ACDC to lead that karaoke. Yeah, that's fair. There you go. They're great karaoke songs. But yeah, what's funny about Higher Ground is apparently like the record label at the time said, okay, so you need to do a cover for this album.
00:46:32
Speaker
And you can either pick from I heard fire and said no you need to do a better I guess maybe they had a quota of like a couple. Yeah, right So I think they were given a choice between a new kids on the block song and Stevie Wonder's higher ground. Oh Jesus so imagine the opposite direction and
00:46:58
Speaker
I'm really glad they went to Rick Rubin. Yeah. How would it have gone the other direction with the funk background? I mean. I'm picturing them doing like hanging tough. That's why I think higher ground was an easy decision on that. Like it feels like the producer was like, I really want him to do higher ground. So I'm going to give him that. And the worst possible option I can come up with for them to cover.
00:47:26
Speaker
Like, yeah, as long as we give you what we want and it's, you know, it's how you get a good magazine covered through. And you stay next to one you don't like. That's classic record label behavior. That's executive sitting in a board room like, okay,
00:47:49
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what it is. Yeah, some some jackass fresh out of marketing school is like, I feel like they could we could we could really push this album if we had a new kids on the block cover. And instead of just back handing that person in the mouth like they should have been, apparently. I just that boggles my mind.
00:48:12
Speaker
Yeah. Imagine how history could have been changed with that. In a different universe, in a different dimension, the Red Hot Chili Peppers have a new kids on the block cover somewhere. Yeah, it's like finding out that Ozzy Osbourne was a Vegas lounge act. It doesn't make any sense and I can't picture the world with that. Man, I would love that though. I'd go see Ozzy the lounge. I'd go see Ozzy, yeah. Crazy.
00:48:40
Speaker
So I want to touch on kind of the modern Chili's and, you know, when Rick Rubin came back after, for those who don't know, after the falling out between Josh Klinghoffer on his first album with the Chili's, I'm With You, the second album, The Getaway, was produced by Danger Mouse. And it was a slightly different sound.
00:49:10
Speaker
Obviously. And then when Frashanti came back, you know, they came out with Unlimited Love and Return of the Dream Canteen back to back in the same year, two double albums in the same year. And a record store day special release. You know, I've got mine, I've got the holographic cover. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I had a poster that came with it, but my wife won't let me put it up in the office. So.
00:49:38
Speaker
Women, I'm telling you, I'm sorry. That's going to get cancelled. We have seven listeners and six of them are mad now. Check your demographics on the website, man. Thanks, Corey.
00:50:00
Speaker
She was like, yeah, I don't want to have like four naked dudes in their 50s like on the wall.
00:50:09
Speaker
Like it could be worse. They could have had socks on their cocks. They could have had socks on. That's the poster you really wanted. You know it is. Because it's great. It's a classic, man. Come on. I love that. You know, you look at that era and you think about the things all these bands are doing. Like Motley Crue is sitting around and they're like, I guess we can get some satanic imagery to hang up so people will freak out. And the Chili's are like, well, we can't afford imagery. So let's go get some Haynes tube socks.
00:50:36
Speaker
go live on stage with it. You know, it's always about the Shaw value, Alice Cooper kiss, then they took it even further with Molly Crew Slayer and all that kind of stuff. Then we get into Marilyn Manson and Ron Shaw. And then Marilyn Manson just took the cake on that one, yeah. All right, Manson, you win, we get it.
00:51:01
Speaker
But my original question was, so if you look at it right now, the Chili's are back on top of the world.
Return to Success with Frishante and Rubin
00:51:12
Speaker
They're doing the late night shows again. They're doing all the big interviews. They're selling out stadiums. I went to go see them in Orlando last year. 65,000 people
00:51:28
Speaker
That's awesome. And, you know, they absolutely killed it. And I think a lot of that is due to Frachante rejoining the band. But what does Rick Rubin have to do with that? I mean, after the getaway, which was, I mean, commercially a flop.
00:51:46
Speaker
I think there are some good tunes on it. I think there are some good tracks, but it was commercially a flop. Do you think Rick Rubin has a significant influence in them getting back on top post John Fichante, or is it just the allure of having their old band member back? I do. I think if they have the magic sauce, and the magic sauce is Rick Rubin.
00:52:15
Speaker
And they pop right back. I mean, it's no coincidence to me that there's one album where suddenly they're not there. You know, suddenly it's not a commercial success. You know, and it's interesting because I look at the getaway and today and I am not I love the chilies, but I am not the level of fan that Aaron is here to be clear. And so to me, the first thought I had when I looked at the getaway was I don't know a single song on this record.
00:52:45
Speaker
uh but i listen to two i listen to goodbye angels at your suggestion aaron and i listen to yeah that's why i listen to dark necessities dark necessities was also a good one um but it's very much a it's it's a different chilies it is it's it's a very different chilies um and you know they still get the radio play for the singles um i remember during that time when
00:53:11
Speaker
When I'm With You came out in 2011 and when The Getaway came out a couple years later, can't remember exactly what year. The big one was Raindance Maggie from I'm With You and they played it on the radio for a couple months, like right after the album came out. And then they played Dark Necessities on the radio for a couple of months after that album came out.
00:53:33
Speaker
Now, the difference is they only played it for a couple of months. It was like they're obligated. It's a new Chili's album. It's a new Chili's single off the album. So yeah, we'll play it. But with songs like Tip of My Tongue and I'm drawing Black Summer from Unlimited Love.
00:53:56
Speaker
you know, yeah, I think those ones will will hold up. I think they they get radio play consistently through the like the likes of, you know, California, California, scar tissue, you know, the list goes on, give it away for vacation in the stadium or cadium. Yeah, yeah, all kinds of radio play. Oh, yeah, has banger after banger. Yeah, as long as modern civilization still has radio, those songs will be played.
00:54:26
Speaker
You know, it's so interesting, too, because we're, you know, 40 years into the Chili Peppers. You ever sat down and thought about how many bands from the 80s are still recording and touring 40 years later? Like it wasn't like that in the early 60s. I mean, you know, I mean, there's a few aside from the Stones and McCartney and all, but but but there's there's not and has not been the just sheer number of bands who were hugely successful, who just continue making music. Now,
00:54:56
Speaker
You know, some of them with none or one original member, like I think of Foreigner, for example. But it's really interesting the staying power of some of the music that started between 1980 and 1992. A lot of the bands are around.
00:55:16
Speaker
Yeah. And you still have to give credit to the Chili's for their versatility over time. When they started changing, or not changing, but adding genres, even their new stuff. I mean, you've got songs like Go Robot off of The Getaway, which is like a disco funk tune. It's totally different. Basterds of Light on Unlimited Love is like an electronic track.
00:55:46
Speaker
which is super different. So they've still got these gems hidden within their albums that push the envelope are different. You don't hear from other bands.
00:56:02
Speaker
The new Stones album just came out and it's great. It's like hearkening back to their earlier stuff. But I don't hear anything necessarily new or innovative from it. The Stones have been a throwback for a long time. It's like every album is a new experience. It's not like they're just doing a greatest hits tour.
00:56:28
Speaker
They're out with with with bangers that are, you know, different and new. Yeah. There are current bad, even though they are 40 years old. Do you one more question here on the on the topic? I keep getting pulled. I keep thinking in tangents. It's I'm the world's worst about that. How do you believe so? If there's no Ruben,
00:56:53
Speaker
Blood Sugar Sex Magic probably still comes out, but it's probably not. I mean, it's definitely not the same record. Does that affect their legacy and influence on young bands still to this day? If Blood Sugar Sex Magic is not the the breakout monster that it was, suppose it's just a good Chili's out.
00:57:22
Speaker
Well, I mean, first of all, then you have to take under the bridge off. Yeah. So. That changes things. That changes a lot. It does. I wish and I tried to find before this, if you're watching this and you have links to what I'm about to ask you, please share them with us. I was looking for early demos from some of the blood sugar sex magic songs.
00:57:49
Speaker
and i looked around looked around i didn't find anything i found a thread on reddit that had a link to a video when i got there it was a private video and whoever owns it has to give you access to the video that is supposedly a lot of demo tracks. From that era and i was curious to see if we had.
00:58:09
Speaker
those songs somewhere in a pre-Rubin state. Like, what was the original demo like? Because you could do that with Green Day just released the 30th anniversary of Dookie. And there's like two or three levels of demos. And you can hear these songs going through the transitions. They start so different. Some of them are very close. Not a big difference, but some of them are radically different.
00:58:35
Speaker
And I'd be really curious if those are out there somewhere to sit down and give them a listen just for fun. I'd love to listen to them, yeah. Whether it was Ruben or whether it was, you know, the band members and their evolution at that point, I think ultimately, if Blood Sugar doesn't come out, maybe the way that it did come out,
00:58:57
Speaker
It wouldn't have skyrocketed them to that point and you know, they might have faded away. So yeah, I think Ruben has a huge influence on that. And I think the demos will be very telling to see just how big that influence is.
Rubin as RHCP's Coach
00:59:11
Speaker
So their trajectory definitely would have changed with that. I mean, I'm not saying that they don't.
00:59:17
Speaker
record an album with Jeff Lynn or someone else. Not Jeff Lynn. I wouldn't even say Danger Mouse because to me that's a weird pairing, but Danger Mouse likes being paired with bands that don't seem right. Like he did an album with Black Keys, which is the opposite of where you would expect Danger Mouse to be.
00:59:38
Speaker
But there are definitely other people, maybe they worked with Bob Rock, had a little more of a metal sound than they do as a result or something. Doesn't mean it wouldn't have still been absolutely great, but it might have been very different. You know, if somebody doesn't create that, and I still think a lot of it comes down to
00:59:56
Speaker
wherever that sonic difference was discovered to separate, flee in the guitars. Because when you pull the, you know, a guitar is an instrument that lives in the mid frequencies, you know, it's it's a mids instrument and a bass is like mids down. So by switching to that strat, you've suddenly got your your guitars playing way up in some higher, higher frequencies. And I think I think there's a big difference there. And I don't know if that would have gotten there with someone else.
01:00:25
Speaker
Could it have still come and been great? Yeah. But does it absolutely change the future for everything Chili's and Chili's adjacent? Yes, I think it does. And I don't mean that to under credit the Chili's. I mean, in the end, this is this is their music. This is their thing. But
01:00:43
Speaker
you know, sometimes we all need coaches and that's what a producer does. He comes in and he coaches a band and turns them into the best version of themselves that they can be. And that's what Rick Rubin did with the Chili's. He came in and he made them see and realize the ability they had to be great and pulled it right out like a champ. Well said, man. Here, here to Rick Rubin and
01:01:12
Speaker
And the chili. For the current iteration of the Red Hot Chili Peppers, they've gone with you. Hell yeah, they have.
01:01:22
Speaker
I guess we'll be seeing him in another 10 years as long as everybody hangs in there and stays healthy. I hope so. Anthony looks like he's 20 years younger than he is. I wish you'd shave the mustache. Yeah. The mustache hurts me so bad. Very bad. He's always been like this ripped, sexy dude. But I see that mustache and I'm like, damn.
01:01:47
Speaker
What is that? Maybe that's the idea. They've always liked to be just a little different, and he's a unique guy. He's an interesting person to listen to, talk very in touch with himself, in touch with his inner spiritual being, and he's an interesting guy to listen to when he gets deep. For sure.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
01:02:10
Speaker
All right. Well, I'd like to thank everyone again for joining us today.
01:02:16
Speaker
Appreciate your time and please take a moment to like, subscribe, maybe check out the website armchairrockstar.com. Armchairrockstar.com. What do you think happens if the Chili's do not get a second shot with Rick Rubin? We want to hear your thoughts too, so let us know in the comments. Tell us you hate us, we don't care. Let us know what happens if they don't have Rick Rubin. That's right. See you guys.
01:02:46
Speaker
Cheers.