Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Thanksgiving Special Episode Courtesy of The Sirens Podcast
4.5k Plays3 years ago
*TRIGGER WARNING* In this episode, the hosts of The Sirens Podcast get really heavy. Raven discusses the Oklahoma serial rapist RJ Thompson, as well as her own sexual assault experience with attorney Carrie White, whom consulted on the RJ case, and speak with RN & Forensic Nurse or SANE nurse, Debra Campbell, who testified in RJ's trial, and who gives a tell all of what to expect during a sexual assault exam with what to dos and what not to dos after an attack. *Some names in this case has been changed to protect the identities of victims.*
Recommended
Transcript
Unexpected Release and Patreon Tease
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, Sleuthhounds. I'm sure this audio posting is coming as a little bit of a surprise since Maggie and I told you that we are going to take the week off. But even though Maggie and I are actually taking time off to spend with our families,
00:00:16
Speaker
We wanted to at least give you something to listen to on your drive, especially if you've already made your way through all of our previous episodes. So for your listening pleasure, we have an episode from our friends over at the Sirens podcast. We know that you will love this episode. You will love them because they are amazing and engaging
00:00:39
Speaker
But they do discuss some very important, but very heavy content. So this episode does come with a trigger warning. And this way, by giving you this episode, we will curb your appetite for true crime until Maggie and I return with a new episode next week. Of course, after you check out this episode, you can always check out our Patreon as well if you haven't yet, where we have lots of fun content about Maggie and me. You might learn a little bit about yourself as well.
00:01:09
Speaker
in addition to several crazy solved and paranormal cases. If you go to patreon.com forward slash coffee and cases all one word you can join until the end of the year for only five dollars a month. Once January 1st hits prices are going up. So if you've been on the fence jump on over and join us at patreon.com forward slash coffee and cases. We hope you have a safe
00:01:37
Speaker
restful and blessed Thanksgiving CNC fam. Now, let's get into this very special episode.
Introduction to Sirens Podcast and Hosts
00:01:51
Speaker
Hi, All You Coffee and Cases fans. This is Raven from the Sirens podcast, and we just wanted to take a minute to kind of introduce ourselves, although it's just me, and I have multiple co-hosts on the show.
00:02:05
Speaker
We have Mandy who is a psychologist and victimologist. I am a private investigator and legal researcher for
00:02:13
Speaker
over 20, oh yeah, about 20 years now. I've got the rest of my crew, about four of them are EMTs and paramedics. I was also a 911 dispatcher for a while. And so this week, coffee and cases needed a teeny tiny break so that they could spend some time with their families as we all want to for the holidays. So I am very honored that they have chosen
00:02:44
Speaker
our show to kind of give you a little taste this week. So we're gonna bring you a case. It's one of our cases that we covered in our season three. And I hope that you really like it. I hope that it gives you some good information. I hope that you learn a little bit.
00:03:02
Speaker
I hope that we advocate well for the victims. I hope that you leave this episode wanting to come and take a listen. So thank you so much for sticking around and thank you so much Coffee and Cases for having us. We really appreciate it. Happy listening.
00:03:32
Speaker
My name is Amanda Newland Davis, and I run Oklahoma Cold Cases, along with my partner, Jen. At Oklahoma Cold Cases, we try to shine light on the cases of the missing, murdered, and unidentified that otherwise don't get much media attention. For the last four years, we've existed solely on Facebook, sharing the posts of the missing, murdered, and unidentified of Oklahoma.
00:03:54
Speaker
But this past year, we've branched out and started a database in which we list all of the names of every cold case that is in Oklahoma that we are currently aware of. You can find us at OklahomaColdCases.org.
00:04:16
Speaker
Are you ready to jump into some true crime docs, crime thrillers and more? Check out our website for an extensive list of our favorite movies and shows at the sirenspodcast.com slash what we watch and find our favorite true crime and thriller books and authors. Some covered on the show at the sirenspodcast.com slash author alley.
00:04:36
Speaker
You can even find special deals for Amazon Music, Audible, Discovery+, Paramount+, Showtime, and even Grubhub. If you're looking to jump in immediately, check out our pinned Facebook post for some streaming service free trials on us.
00:04:59
Speaker
You're listening to Sirens, a true crime podcast brought to you by the Sirens Network. This podcast contains explicit content, so listener discretion is advised. The opinions expressed on this podcast are solely the views of the hosts and do not reflect the views of affiliates, associates, or sponsors of this podcast. And here's your host, Raven Rollins.
RJ Thompson Assault Case Details
00:05:29
Speaker
August 2014. Glenna Harris, she says she met a charming stranger at a gas station in Ada, Oklahoma. RJ Thompson told her how much he liked her dog and asked her for her number. She said she hung out with them a few times but never alone until one day in August when he asked her to go with him to bail hay. Quote, he picked me up and we went to Seminole County, Harris said.
00:05:56
Speaker
While on the road, Harris claimed Thompson snapped, quote, within seconds. It was seconds and it was just unbelievable, something nobody should have to go through, end quote. Thompson allegedly started beating her while driving down back roads. He didn't say anything. He just started hitting, Harris said.
00:06:16
Speaker
Harris made her escape on Highway 56 near Sasakwa, Oklahoma. She was so desperate to get away from the alleged physical abuse that she jumped out the car window and flagged down a stranger driving by. He slowed down and I jumped through his passenger side window and I just jumped in and I told him to drive because this guy was gonna kill me, she said. The stranger drove her to the gas station at Rivermist Casino a few miles away where law enforcement stepped in. October 12th.
00:06:46
Speaker
2014. A woman called authorities and said she had been assaulted. Ponotok County Sheriff Deputies responded to the woman's residence on County Road 1549 near Ada, Oklahoma. I immediately noticed injury to the victim's face where she had been assaulted, Deputy Travis Wilson said in a report.
00:07:05
Speaker
The woman said her ex-boyfriend, RJ Thompson, was parked outside her residence, where she went outside to see what he wanted, and he was holding duct tape and a knife, and allegedly grabbed her and dragged her into his SUV, which had a tarp laid out in the back, she said.
00:07:22
Speaker
The victim said that he threatened to cut her throat and punched her in the face several times. The victim advised she kicked the knife out of his hand and started screaming, which caught the attention of a neighbor who heard dogs barking.
00:07:37
Speaker
The victim advised she was then able to get out of the truck and run to the front of the residence where she believed she would be safe. The victim couldn't give any more information about who Thompson was, a date of birth or a description, only that he stayed at her home a couple of times and they dated for a short while. January 14, 2015
00:07:59
Speaker
A woman contacted police after reading the ADA news about RJ Thompson being arrested for allegedly raping a different woman. She said that RJ Thompson, whose photo was in the paper at the time, was the same man who attacked her in October.
00:08:16
Speaker
In that case, an Ada woman told police she was kidnapped, bound and beaten and sexually assaulted. Ada detective Destry Musgrove said Thompson reportedly kidnapped a 36-year-old woman from her residence on Short Street in Ada, Oklahoma, January 9, 2015.
00:08:33
Speaker
Musgrove said Thompson and the woman knew each other but did not elaborate on the relationship. Thompson forced the woman into his vehicle, Musgrove said. Thompson then drove the victim into Seminole County where he allegedly sexually assaulted her and then he drove the victim to his residence in Cole County where he reportedly beat, bound and continued to sexually assault the victim and kept her for most of the day.
00:08:59
Speaker
Now, for those of you who don't know Oklahoma very well, Seminole, Oklahoma is in Seminole County. It's about 30 minutes away from Ada. It's like 30 minutes north of Ada, Oklahoma. And then Cole County, where you have like Colgate, Oklahoma is about 25 minutes south of Ada, Oklahoma. So when this victim says that he drove her to Seminole County,
00:09:25
Speaker
and then all the way back to his residence in Cole County. That's, we're looking at about an hour that she had to ride with him. The victim stated that Thompson debated on whether or not he was gonna kill her, but she convinced him to drive her back to Ada and let her go. Thompson was then arrested in Konawa on January 10th, and he was charged January 12th with kidnapping, forcible sodomy, two counts of first degree rape, assault and battery, and pattern of criminal offenses.
00:09:54
Speaker
They suspect that there were way more than just three or four at this time and that he was actually a serial rapist. So I do actually have in hand RJ's appeal and I will upload that onto the website.
00:10:12
Speaker
However, I'm not going to read it because one of his victims did not make it to trial. She is suspected to have overdosed right before trial. She went into a coma for about a week and then she passed away in that appeal.
00:10:30
Speaker
He describes her as I just I don't feel like victim shaming So if you want to read into that if you want the details on his appeal it I'll put it on the website for you to go in there all you have to do to get into our case files and
00:10:48
Speaker
is sign up as a member on our website. And then you can go to www.the sirenspodcast.com slash case files. And you'll find all of our, um, if it's like a PDF or if it's something like that, then I've uploaded it in there or like crime scene photos, stuff like that. It's all in there. So I'm just going to pop that in there. If you want to look over it, it's, it is long. He was appealing because
00:11:17
Speaker
She had died before she could testify and they used her grandmother in the trial to testify for her. And they also used the same nurse to testify in the trial for her. And he was saying that this is hearsay.
00:11:34
Speaker
Now, I have an attorney here. She actually prepped the same nurse that we're also going to talk to later on during the trial. Now, because of HIPAA and attorney-client privilege, stuff like that, we're not going to get into too much detail about what they saw.
00:11:53
Speaker
What we're really going to talk about is procedures, why this is actually not hearsay and what it's like step by step. If you decide to come forward, if you have been assaulted or if you have been raped, what are you to expect? And that's what a SANE nurse is. A SANE nurse is a forensic nurse. They're the ones who do the examination, they do the rape kits that you hear about.
00:12:20
Speaker
And so we're going to talk to her and we're going to see exactly what to be prepared for if we ever need to do that. So Investigator David Hanson, formerly with the Seminole County Sheriff's Office, now the Seminole Police Chief and Detective Destry Musgrove of the Ada Police Department, conducted a statewide investigation lasting over three months.
00:12:44
Speaker
During the investigation, it was found that Thompson was a serial rapist and he had at least eight victims over a 30-year period. At the time of his arrest, Mr. Thompson was caught in a Conewa apartment complex parking lot stalking his next victim. It is believed by investigators that there are many more unknown victims of R.J. Thompson.
00:13:06
Speaker
All of his victims told investigators a similar story concerning what happened to them. All of the rapes involving kidnapping, brutal beatings, and rape. If you think that you may have possibly been a victim of R.J. Thompson, you can call the Ada Police Department.
00:13:23
Speaker
you can call Crime Stoppers. He has spent a large portion of the last 30 years in prison for multiple violent offenses. In 2017, he went in front of District 22 Judge Kessinger, Assistant District Attorney Tara Portillo, and sealed his fate.
00:13:42
Speaker
In a jury trial that lasted four days, Mr. Thompson was convicted on six charges that he faced. Mr. Thompson was given four life sentences and 40 additional years. Thompson has been accused of sexual assaults in Tulsa County, Cole County, Pushmataha, Muskogee, Pittsburgh, Seminole County, and Pontotoc counties. He has been in and out of prison for decades.
00:14:07
Speaker
I'm going to introduce my guest real quick. I have Carrie White on with us today. She's an attorney and she actually worked on this case and she's going to be my guest co-host today. Oh, okay. Thank you for having me. Question. What does it mean by a pattern of criminal offenses? That's the first time I've seen that.
00:14:32
Speaker
A pattern of criminal offenses is, I mean, it's exactly what it sounds like. You are a serial rapist. You are a serial killer. You are maybe a serial burglar. But it's something that you repeatedly do. And a lot of the time when they charge that, that heightens the sentence of what you will get
00:14:57
Speaker
You know, it's like a an addendum to the sentence. You're going to get five more years because you had a pattern of these offenses. So is this is that why they decided to charge all of all six of these?
00:15:10
Speaker
together? I think they decided to charge all six of these together and just let me go back real quick. I did not work on this case. I worked kind of as a consultant kind of behind the scenes on this case. So I didn't work directly on this particular case but I think the reason that they decided to put them all together is because a lot of these women who came forward were
00:15:38
Speaker
Women that this had occurred in the past, they didn't come forward right away. They waited until maybe he was caught on this, the bigger case and then they came forward. So it was really kind of a he said, she said kind of thing for these older cases.
00:15:59
Speaker
They had the most evidence in Pontotoc County and the prosecutors from all of those counties, Seminole, Cole, and Pontotoc, got together and said, look, this is where most of our evidence is here in Pontotoc County. They conferenced about it, said, yes, let's do all the cases there together. The evidence will be greater if we compile these as opposed to doing them one at a time. And so I think that's why they made that decision.
00:16:25
Speaker
statements that she made to the police after the alleged crimes were not admissible in court. However, the statements she made to the same nurse during a rape examination and to her grandmother afterwards were allowed in court.
Legal Insights and Courtroom Roles
00:16:42
Speaker
And so I'm going to stop right here and I'm going to ask you
00:16:46
Speaker
What is hearsay? Just what is it? So hearsay is a statement that is made by a third party. People who are charged or defendants have a right to confront the people who, you know, witnesses. They have a right to confront these people that are saying whatever about them. In this instance, that person, the woman he abused, was not available.
00:17:17
Speaker
Her grandmother and the same nurse were third parties that she talked to. So it's like saying so-and-so said. So-and-so said this. Not, they told me directly.
00:17:30
Speaker
But so-and-so said that so-and-so said that, you know, this happened or whatever. So, well, if it's, if it doesn't come directly from a witness on the stand, it's considered hearsay. Okay. And we're calling her Virginia. Virginia. Yeah. Virginia could not appear because she was, you know, because of her mental, mental health issues and her
00:17:55
Speaker
medical issues, she could not appear. And so she would be the witness that he was under constitutional rights, would have an opportunity to confront. Her grandmother just heard what Virginia said. She didn't really have any actual knowledge of what R.J. Thompson had done. The same nurse who did the domestic violence exam and the rape kit exam
00:18:24
Speaker
only heard what R.J. Thompson had done to Virginia. She had no firsthand knowledge. So those were considered hearsay. And that is what R.J. Thompson based his appeal on. Right. What prosecutors for Ponotok County are saying is that there are exceptions to the hearsay rule.
00:18:47
Speaker
And those exceptions, a couple of them, which are pertinent here, are excited utterances and medical records. Virginia's grandmother, when RJ Thompson dropped her off, she ran into the house. Her grandmother was there. She said, grandmother, I'm paraphrasing, I've been attacked by RJ Thompson.
00:19:12
Speaker
That's an excited utterance. She was in a state of excitement. So that statement is allowed. The other exception is the medical records exception.
00:19:28
Speaker
And the reason that that is an exception is because people don't generally lie to their medical provider. Right. Cause they want the best care that they can get. That's exactly right. They want the best care they can get. So they tell their medical providers, probably more than medical providers want to know. Um, a nurse is a medical provider. A doctor is a medical provider, a mental health specialist, you know, therapist, whatever, those are medical providers. And so,
00:19:57
Speaker
The SANE nurse who did the rape kit, Virginia told her what had happened to her. Virginia was not able to testify. So that SANE nurse was basically Virginia's voice at trial. Right. Virginia told her everything.
00:20:16
Speaker
that had happened between her and RJ Thompson while the nurse was doing the exam. So the nurse not only saw all the injuries, she saw Virginia's mental status. She heard all of the story and so she was able to repeat that.
00:20:36
Speaker
at trial because it all fell under a medical record. Okay. Um, well that clears that up. So then judge Steve Kessinger followed the jury's recommendation that, uh, and sentenced Thompson to life in prison for each count of rape. Now I did not know until recently that you could get a life sentence for rape.
00:20:58
Speaker
I think that judges have in their discretion, you know, there are certain amounts of time that the law actually calls for. In Oklahoma we have enhanced sentencing that comes back to that pattern of criminal offenses. So the judge has in his discretion to give the maximum
00:21:21
Speaker
Or lower, you know, something lower. And so I think the judge in this instance was absolutely correct in the sentence that he got for them. Yeah. So, uh, he actually received 20 years.
00:21:35
Speaker
for the kidnapping in 20 years for the sodomy on top of those life sentences. So but this was this was the second trial that he had because the first trial they actually had a juror
00:21:51
Speaker
who was talking outside of, and they declared that he had done misconduct or something and gone on the internet or something and was like looking up Thompson, which if they ask you if you know anything about the case, that's because they don't want you to know anything about the case.
00:22:13
Speaker
So they declared a mistrial on that one. Yeah, because that's a no-no. But a mistrial doesn't mean that it doesn't get tried again. It just means scratch it, start over. Got to start over. And so that's why the SANE nurse testimony was so important in the second trial.
00:22:32
Speaker
is because by this time Virginia has passed away right right so she was actually injuries so she was alive for the first one and that you're messed it up for everybody yes okay she wasn't able to testify then either because of her her her you know state of vegetative state but yeah in the second trial she had actually had passed away well and also i can't imagine having to sit
00:22:58
Speaker
In front of everyone and point somebody and say that's he did that That would probably be terrifying so We actually have The same nurse that was in this trial now while we can't talk about what she did in this trial
00:23:18
Speaker
Um, we are going to get to ask her some questions, which is, this is a big deal because sane nurses don't like to talk to people like me. They don't like to talk to just about anybody because what they do is really hard. All right. So I have Deborah Campbell here. She is a sane nurse and I'm going to let her.
00:23:36
Speaker
introduce herself. My name is Deborah Campbell. I'm a registered nurse. 1979 was when I became a nurse and it was in 2003 that I took some training to become a sexual
00:23:52
Speaker
assault nurse examiner, which we called insane. And then in 2005, I took the training to become a domestic violence nurse examiner. 2016, I was able to go to the strangulation Institute in San Diego, California.
00:24:14
Speaker
and a week-long training on strangulation. At the moment, I do a lot of training with law enforcement, healthcare workers, social workers, caseworkers, really anybody who will listen about
00:24:30
Speaker
I do sexual assault, domestic violence, and strangulation. I also do a lead thing. I take care of a program and I do exams both for sexual assault and domestic violence. So the reason why I wanted to have you on is because what you do isn't talked about in our world today. Women are very afraid to get rape kits done and they're afraid to come forward.
00:24:59
Speaker
And so I wanted you to maybe just walk us through what happens when a woman comes forward and she needs an exam done. So what happens first?
00:25:14
Speaker
there is that sexual assault, if she can get to a safe place first and foremost, and then if she could call somebody that she trusts to get her to like an emergency room, if that facility does not provide those kind of services to do a sexual assault exam, they're usually mandated like by joint commission that they have someplace that they could
00:25:39
Speaker
center too. Okay. And when they, when they come to a, to the emergency room, let's say they, the, the faculty usually will call like an advocate or the same nurse and tell them that they have somebody in the emergency room. And then the same nurse comes to the emergency room and talk with the patient. So you go to them, they don't come to you.
00:26:07
Speaker
Correct. Okay. Correct. So then what's the process when you do a rape kit? Okay. And now, and I hear you saying rape kit and that's something that, um, it's kind of an old term now forensic nursing, forensic nursing. You know what? That sounds so much better. I love it.
00:26:30
Speaker
And we do forensic exams because sometimes the sexual assault may also include like strangulation and it may be in a domestic violence or intimate partner violence relationship. But when I go and I talk to her,
00:26:48
Speaker
For the sexual assault, I have consent that I will have her signed after I've explained to her what all will be included in this type of exam. Just generally speaking is that you get consent from them and on the state of Oklahoma,
00:27:10
Speaker
And I called in my patients. To me, they're not a victim. They will always be my patient, not a victim. I explained to her what's going to go on, that she's going to give me consent to do these exams. She is very welcome to stop the exam if she thinks that she, for whatever reason, she wants to stop the exam, she can.
00:27:34
Speaker
state of Oklahoma will pay the sexual assault nurse examiner. She will not be charged for that. She's not charged for that exam. Good to know. Good to know. And that I tell her that I'll do like a head to toe assessment.
00:27:49
Speaker
just if she was at a clinic or came into the ER for whatever, I still would do a head to toe assessment as an RN. And then we start talking about specific things.
00:28:04
Speaker
take a general history, medical history on her. I listen to her story in her own words. And the reasoning behind that is that I am able to start thinking about, I need to look at this place for possible injury. I need the best of what she's telling me.
00:28:28
Speaker
this with trauma. Trauma is something that a lot of people do not understand. A lot of times patients will have holes in their story, sort of speak. Everybody thinks they should be able to, like in a linear fashion, tell what happened step by step by step. That's not how trauma works. Right. After she tells me her story, I have a second part to that. I'll ask her
00:28:55
Speaker
specific questions about like if weapons were used, if they burnt, you know, them or just specific thrown items thrown at them, that sort of thing. Okay.
00:29:09
Speaker
And then the physical exam that you do, what goes on during that? The physical exam would be that after I took her story and I've got the information and everything, what I usually do is I open up the forensic kit. I have certain ways that I would swab wherever maybe she was touched or penetrated. It depends on her story, whether I would swab.
00:29:37
Speaker
those places and I put them in a special envelope because this forensic kit gets sealed up and sent to the OSDI. I collect clothes, I collect usually underwear and I'm kind of talking as though this was a female that was assaulted. I've done sexual assault exams also on males. When you send this off, now do they ever
00:30:02
Speaker
We're talking about, um, the RJ Thompson case right now. And we know that you testified. Do you get called to testify a lot? I do a lot. I've testified quite a bit. When we were talking about, uh, how testimony from saying nurses, forensic nurses is no longer considered, or I don't know if it was ever considered, but it's not hearsay in these trials. And sometimes you're kind of the only voice that they have. Yeah.
00:30:30
Speaker
Do you ever, I'm sure you ever get personally involved with these victims or patients that you call them. I'm sure it would be really hard not to get attached to some of them. Well, there's a certain way that you approach this. When I do an exam, I'm never there to make any kind of judgment calls or anything. I listened to what they say and that from that medical aspect, that's how I take care of them. In the case,
00:30:59
Speaker
that someone has just encountered a rape or something like that. Let's say it literally just happened. What advice would you give to them? What do they need to do before they get to you?
00:31:16
Speaker
Well, like I said, they need to be in a safe place, for sure. They have to be in a safe place. They need to get to a facility where they can have a sexual assault exam. Now, there's a lot of times that they won't want to come or report what's happening to law enforcement. But with sexual assault, when it comes to adults, they don't have to report it to the police.
00:31:43
Speaker
It can be called a non-reporting or we have a reporting exam. If they want it reported then a lot of times they may have already called the police or if they're telling me that they want the police involved then we can contact them then. So basically what she's saying out there is that you don't have to get the police involved. If you don't want to just go ahead and get the exam done
00:32:12
Speaker
Yes, in case. Right. In the state of Oklahoma, the rule of thumb for the same nurses is that we will do an exam five days out.
00:32:25
Speaker
You have five days from the time that you were assaulted to get the exam. Any time after that, we really start looking at maybe just taking care of people, like having them see their medical doctor or whatever, and then start testing for STDs, HIV, treatments for those things also.
00:32:47
Speaker
with prophylactic but usually we it's the five days if they'll come in we can do the exam and if it just happened and they're getting to the hospital or maybe at a center or whatever if they can try
00:33:03
Speaker
not to drink, not to smoke, eat. If they need to go to the bathroom, when they go pat themselves dry, don't cry. Okay. They can't stand the thought of have the clothes that they were wearing. They can certainly put them in a bag used to we had paper bags. Now we all have Walmart bags or Target bags. Right. And
00:33:25
Speaker
plastic. If they put the clothes in there, don't tie it up. That breaks down whatever's there, any kind of DNA that the OSBI could find. Is it a myth when they say don't take a shower after? Is that something that you would say as well or is that just a myth?
00:33:46
Speaker
No, we don't want you to today either. All of this information is really, really great information. And I'm really glad that you're sharing it with us because, um, this podcast is 80% women that listen to this podcast.
Personal Reflections on Trauma
00:34:03
Speaker
And when I started this podcast, it was, well, we want to tell true crime stories, but we also want to give resources for the people that are listening out there so that they can maybe be vigilant.
00:34:15
Speaker
and they can get the help that they need.
00:34:18
Speaker
And I think that the information that you've shared with us today is just absolutely invaluable. So thank you so much for talking to me. But honestly, I would love to come and be on the podcast and talk about strangulation. That would be awesome. I will for sure keep you in my contacts. Thank you so much for being on with me today. You're very welcome. I was more than happy to
00:34:46
Speaker
She was talking about how trauma skews your memory and that when a victim is telling their story, one of the reasons that police officers or even family don't believe them is because there is holes in their story or they say your story doesn't make sense. And the reason it doesn't make sense is because trauma
00:35:15
Speaker
screws with your brain. So what they can remember is more of what they hear or what they smell or what they've tasted. Those are the things that come to their mind first. So they may say, I smelled cigarette smoke and then I saw a red truck, maybe completely out of order.
00:35:42
Speaker
But those are the things that stick in their minds. And so when you go, that story doesn't really make sense. It's not gonna make sense because they can't tell it in a linear fashion. They can't tell you what happened at nine o'clock, nine 30, 10 o'clock. But all they can do is tell you, these are the things that stuck out to my senses. And so that's one of the main reasons that victims are not believed, domestic violence victims or rape victims.
00:36:11
Speaker
It's weird that you say that because, um, but I was raped when I was 16. I did not know that. Should we stop? No, because I think it's important. I was, uh, drugged or something. Someone put something in my drink and I woke up.
00:36:40
Speaker
in the back of my own car. And it was just like flashes. Like I literally lost time. And there was someone in my, um, someone in the seat with me and was, it was a man, but I, I couldn't tell you what it looked like. The next time I woke up again with somebody, uh, we were in a house, some house, I don't even remember. And then I passed out again and I was in a completely separate location. And I remember there being four or five other men watching.
00:37:11
Speaker
And I would just pass out over and over again. They kept making me drink something, kept passing out over and over again. And every time I would wake up, I'd be in a different room, in a different situation, something different happening to me around this big corner from the turnpike, like right before you pay the toll.
00:37:32
Speaker
When we got pulled over by an officer, he couldn't tell that something was wrong with me. And I had no idea what just really just happened. And so I didn't tell him what happened. And so he put me back behind the wheel of my own car.
00:37:49
Speaker
and I remember pulling out and I don't remember the drive home. I remember pulling up into the driveway and now I'm home and I remember holding the ticket that he gave me in my hand and I thought to myself, I thought, well, I can't tell anybody because nobody's gonna believe me. I can't describe the person. I can't describe the places that I was at. So, I mean, it's weird that you say that because I didn't even remember
00:38:18
Speaker
Like I didn't even know that those were trauma responses. Right. They are. And even if, if you had not perhaps been drug, you may not remember that stuff anyway. That may be a trauma response. It may be your brain just blocking that out. I mean, there could have been no drugs whatsoever. That could just be your trauma response because that's the way it happens to a lot of people. And that's why,
00:38:47
Speaker
people, police officers and doctors and whoever don't believe stories. And that's why Deb says, you know, it's not my job to judge, it's my job to take your story. Yeah, because I mean, even just then.
00:39:03
Speaker
None of that makes any sense. None of that makes any sense, but that's precisely what I remember. I can't tell you what time of day it was. I know it went from day to night. Those are all the details that I can give. I'd say you're very lucky to make it home. Yeah, me too. And that's why Deb talked about the reporting and the non-reporting is that you can go to an emergency room and get checked out and have those forensic exams done.
00:39:34
Speaker
You don't have to, if you don't want to report it to police, they lock that kit up, they put it, send it to OSPI, it stays in a locker for 20 years. And that's something that I didn't know. Yeah. And it stays there and nobody knows it has your name on it. You get a number, here's your number to your kit. If you ever want to report, you give this number to us and we go and we find your kit.
00:40:00
Speaker
in the thousands of kits that are in the OSB right now because women don't want to report. Yeah. And, and if I had known everything that she just told me, I might have just gone, I might have just grabbed my keys and gone and, and
00:40:17
Speaker
Figured out what I wanted to do about that later, but in the moment I would have gone I mean, maybe they would have gotten DNA who knows but you know in the moment you're going nobody's gonna believe this I can't describe this But you know just go
00:40:34
Speaker
and get it done, and then figure it out later. Once you're working through your trauma, like you said, it could sit there for 20 years. It could sit there for 20 years. Now, I know there is a statute of limitations on rape in Oklahoma. I forget what it is. And it depends on what age you are. If you were underage at the time, I don't think there is a statute of limitations. Really? I could be wrong. I think it depends on your age.
00:41:03
Speaker
Seven years is the statute of limitations on bribery, embezzlement, misappropriation of public money, along with a bunch of other things, including rape or forcible sodomy, lewd or
00:41:16
Speaker
indecent proposals, acts against the children and stuff like that. So seven years, you have seven years to figure out what you want to do with that. But if I had known what the process was, maybe I wouldn't have been so. And that you didn't have to call police right away. You don't have to call police right away.
00:41:36
Speaker
And that's another thing that scared me, a 16 year old kid thinking, well, now the police is going to get involved. And so, I mean, right. And I think that, um, and you may have to ask Deb about this, um, maybe at a later time, but I believe if, if the, um, person is under the age of 18, but
00:41:55
Speaker
15 and over, you do not have to have parental consent for a forensic exam. Like you would have for a younger child. You know what, if you're driving age and something has happened, just go get an exam. Well, that's going to conclude our episode today. I know we kind of got deep
00:42:15
Speaker
It's time for us to start talking about these things. We're giving you the information. We're here to help you. That's why I'm sharing this information with you. That's why I find all of these experts in these fields. And this is something that I've been hoping to work up to since I started this podcast. So I'm glad that I'm finally at a point where I've made all of these connections and I can bring this information.
00:42:39
Speaker
to all of you listeners, because I want you to be vigilant. I want you to be safe. I want you to do what's right for you. And if that is to go and get an exam, go and get it. If that's to get out of a shitty relationship, get out of it. Thank you, Carrie, for being with me again. And we'll catch you next time.
00:43:08
Speaker
You've reached the end of our episode. All suspects are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Join Raven next time on the sirens podcast. Do we have an outro? That's our outro, isn't it?