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Mike Cero - Vote No on Proposition 1 Public Maintenance and Safety Building
134 Plays1 month ago
On the ballot this November: Proposition 1, a proposed $103 million Public Safety & Maintenance Building intended to house both the city’s public works and police operations. In this episode, I sit down with Mike Cero, Mercer Island resident, former City Council member, and spokesperson for the Vote No campaign.
Listen in for Mike’s view on the project’s costs, its impact on taxpayers, and how he thinks Mercer Island should approach public investment.
🔗 Learn more about the Vote No campaign here: https://www.miforss.com
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Transcript
Introduction to Mercer Matters and Proposition 1
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to this episode of the Mercer Matters podcast. I'm Ben Sharp and I'm your host. I started this podcast about two years ago to give Mercer Island residents another way to get information on local elections and bond measures.
00:00:16
Speaker
If you enjoy this podcast, I would appreciate it if you could like it on the platform that you're listening to and also share with your friends and family via social media. Without further ado, here is the next episode.
00:00:28
Speaker
everybody. My name is Ben Sharp, and I'm the host of Mercer Matters podcast. um In today's episode, we will be talking about Proposition 1, which is a $103 million dollars bond to finance the construction of a new public safety and maintenance facility on Mercer Island.
00:00:43
Speaker
ah This bond measure will be hitting ballots for Mercer Island residents this November
Meet Mike Ciro and His Community Work
00:00:47
Speaker
2025. twenty twenty five ah Joining me in today's discussion about Proposition 1 is Mike Ciro. He's the chairman of Mercer Islanders for Sustainable Spending, and he represents the Vote No Committee on this bond measure.
00:01:00
Speaker
ah Mike, thanks for for coming on the program today. i was hoping that we could get started just by having you give a brief introduction of yourself and your background as it pertains to this bond measure.
00:01:11
Speaker
For those of you don't know, you can kind of get an idea who you are and and where you're coming from. Sure, Ben. Thanks for having me on board here. I've been on the island for about 28 years, lived down the South End, have been active in the schools. My kids went to school in elementary grades.
00:01:28
Speaker
I have also been active in the community with extracurricular activities, whether that's football, little league football, VFW commander for a while on a um committee for small class sizes with the school, then was deployed to Iraq 2005. I came back where it was offered up to me to go to run for city council. So I ran for city council and, uh,
00:01:53
Speaker
was elected in 07, started term in 08, served for two terms, so that's till 2016. And then after the council continued just keeping a pulse on the community, keeping a pulse on the council, what the council was doing, would um campaign for other good candidates, some successful, some not successful, probably a 50% batting average on that.
00:02:21
Speaker
And then with the 2018, I think it's ah prop one ah that the city, I thought that was a big overreach.
00:02:34
Speaker
I started this organization, Mercer Islanders for Sustainable Spending, and we successfully defeated that. And to everybody's dire predictions, nothing happened.
00:02:45
Speaker
Nothing bad happened. We continue with the same level of services that Islanders have grown used to without an increase in property taxes.
Opposition to Proposition 1: Costs and Sustainability
00:02:57
Speaker
ah Then in 2025, typically, typically Our charter, if you will, is only stay focused with city finances, as that's where our the majority of our expertise lays.
00:03:09
Speaker
But in 2025, end of 2024, people started talking to me about getting involved with the school bond. Yeah, and we talked about that on a prior episode. Yeah, and i got that's right. And I got involved with that and was successful in defeating that.
00:03:24
Speaker
And then right after that, unfortunately... ah The city has this bond for what I call the big, beautiful building for $103 million, $174 million total with the interest.
00:03:35
Speaker
And once again, my volunteers, Immersed Islanders for Sustainable Spending, Miss, wanted me to get involved. and And we've got a real strong group, different backgrounds, different They all contribute different expertise to the project and and we we are here now.
00:03:53
Speaker
Awesome. Well, thank you very much again for joining and and thanks for all you're doing for our community, Mike. It's a lot of work. were about that. I hope that's the way it's looked at, Ben. Well, it is for me.
00:04:05
Speaker
Okay, good. So it takes a lot of time from me. and the people who volunteer ah on MISS, of which I really appreciate. And I do hope it's looked at as a service to the community.
Proposed Facility Expansions and Their Necessity
00:04:18
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's I think it's very helpful to have people who are proponents of both sides of an issue. It's a lot of work on either side, right? So and as you've mentioned, some of the work that you've done, there's a lot of time and effort that the city has spent just getting to this point. So I i appreciate everything you've done. to To get started, could you just give us an idea? what What is the scope of the of the project being funded in Proposition 1? What are they doing?
00:04:42
Speaker
They're moving the police, EOC, and public works into this facility, along with a lot of covered and climate controlled parking. I have an ad out that hit, let's see, it hit a couple of days ago in the reporter, and it's by the numbers. That's the title of the ad.
00:05:01
Speaker
And so by the numbers, we're talking about 66% increase in square footage of office and maintenance space.
00:05:11
Speaker
556% increase in covered storage areas, 200% increase in total storage area, eight climate-controlled parking spots, 141 overhead covered vehicle parking spots.
00:05:24
Speaker
And that that, by the way, is, I don't think we need covered parking spots, but that's still 141 for 110 vehicles. Three maintenance bays. Right now, they've been doing a ah great job with one maintenance bay.
00:05:39
Speaker
It's designed for 50% more police vehicles, ah designed for 17% more public works employees, and designed for 41% more police employees. So it is a much larger facility than we have now.
00:05:57
Speaker
So, yeah, a lot a lot to unpack there. um And what what is what is EOC? You mentioned EOC. I'm not familiar with that. Emergency Operations Center. So we'll not get into the need for an EOC versus just having it.
00:06:12
Speaker
Well, I don't want to go there, but Emergency Operations Center. So if there's an emergency, ah name it. They are supposed to break down into this centralized location and direct emergency.
00:06:25
Speaker
press, citizens, questions, and resources and assets through this centrally located EOC room. and that's And that's all it's used for, though, is during, you know, kind of a disaster situation. ah they They can use it for other things. I mean, it's just a big building or it's a big office room.
00:06:43
Speaker
with outlets and computer plugins and whatnot. So it's you can use it for other things. Gotcha. Okay. Thanks for clarifying that. So I think it's fair to say a lot of room for growth all over the place.
00:06:57
Speaker
Maybe let's start there ah because I know a lot of the work you've done that I've read, you know your concern is, gosh, you know do we need all this? right And so Mercer Island is a is an island.
00:07:08
Speaker
you know The population, i imagine, will continue to grow, but Do we need all, to you know, is it is it too much? How much space do we need to plan for the future? Yeah, it's absolutely too much.
00:07:20
Speaker
ah You know, there's dueling perspectives on this, even at the council. ah Well, certainly at the council. So, for instance, on the two extremes, you have... but Councilmember Weinberger, ah Ted Weinberg, he says that we're going to have a much more dense island with with a lot more facilities and and things to maintain, whereas the deceased councilmember, Jake Jacobson, unfortunately, he was saying, no, that's just not the case. We're not going to grow that much. We're an island.
00:07:55
Speaker
The number the square footage of our island will remain the same. We will not have any more roads. We will not have any more ah streets or roads. The sewer lines will remain the same. The number of sewer lines will remain the same.
00:08:10
Speaker
Growth from a population really has kind of peaked, if you will, around 25,000. So ah we need to take advantage and recognize that, yes, we are an island.
Financial Transparency and Prudent Spending
00:08:23
Speaker
It's a mature community. It The level of services and then the ah number of services, they're not going to change that much. Yeah, that's that's fair. I mean, I suppose proponents would say, well, with some of the density requirements that have been passed by the state, that maybe that will change in the future. but Well, even the density requirements um even the density requirements, the roads, you know we're talking about a maintenance facility. That's the main emphasis of It's the maintenance facility.
00:08:50
Speaker
So the roads, the sewers, the ah The stoplights that will basically remain the same. I mean, you you can't make an argument that it's going to increase nearly to justify 17% more public works employees or 30 more vehicles.
00:09:07
Speaker
vehicles You just can't do it. So, Mike, maybe that's that's a good question. So of the $103 million ah the old stated cost anyway, what can you break that down a little bit? you know How much is going towards this maintenance facility versus the police facility? Do you have do you have a breakdown of that?
00:09:24
Speaker
No, I don't, Ben. I would like to, but that information is just not available. That should be a responsibility that is presented to the public. ah by the council through the Archintel firm. so ah But I know where you're going with that.
00:09:40
Speaker
What our proposal is... Yeah, what what would you what would you do? I mean, I guess that's that's the big question. but What should the scope of the project be? What our proposal is, is that they do their last meeting first.
00:09:53
Speaker
Now, they've had over ah two years of meetings, roughly 18, 19 regular and executive council meetings, about 25 hours of meetings, and then maybe another 15 hours where the architect has interviewed the different departments. And i mean, there they have really done a lot of meetings.
00:10:17
Speaker
It's not until just last three months, three months ago, that they brought up the point of how much is this going to cost the median average household? And it's no secret. This is the third time that Miss has done this.
00:10:30
Speaker
What is it that we always do? i mean, you know, Ben, what is it that we always do? We always look at, from the taxpayer's perspective, the median home, the percent increase.
Restructuring the Project and Budget Concerns
00:10:41
Speaker
It's not a secret. That's the way we do it. What my proposal is, is that that's what they should start out first. That should be their their first meeting. Instead, it's their last meeting. That's where I get the last meeting first.
00:10:55
Speaker
So we have... The council and I might add the district, ah they have the benefit of 2020 hindsight, right? In 2018, the excess levy defeat was 45%.
00:11:08
Speaker
forty five percent It was a 45% at the end of the six-year city property tax increase. That's what I hit. That's what I pushed. That was a 45% property tax increase.
00:11:19
Speaker
This recent bond with the school, oh What I hit on was a 40% local school property tax increase. So there's a theme there that the community does not tolerate what?
00:11:32
Speaker
40 plus percent. ah Around a 40% property tax increase. Mike, what what should they target in your opinion? Like what what do you think would be a reasonable? Again, they need to do their last meeting first. What I would suggest is around a 20%, about half that.
00:11:47
Speaker
about half that So their their first meeting should be, what will a 20% property tax, city property tax increase ah net? And then then go to the architect and say, okay, this is what we need and this is how much money you have, design it.
00:12:06
Speaker
Now let me talk also about that word need, need versus provided. Those are the architect's words or descriptions. They have slides with two columns in it.
00:12:20
Speaker
And it says need One column is need and the other column is provided. When I get these, what I'll call astronomical numbers of 50% more police vehicles, 70% more public works ah employees, design 41% more police employees, I get it straight from their handout.
00:12:41
Speaker
They've got one column that says needs and one column that says provided. What I'm suggesting, my proposal, Ben, is to build to the need.
00:12:52
Speaker
And I don't think that's too outlandish. you're You're saying build to the need from their proposal or or from some other? From their proposal. Okay. And so how is that different than what is being proposed?
00:13:04
Speaker
Like in other words, so... Well, no, no, I can answer that question. I can answer yeah that question. When I say there's i eight climate control parking spots... I will argue argue in the temperate Northwest, you don't need ah climate controlled parking spots.
00:13:19
Speaker
But even then, they say they need they have six vehicles that they would put in those climate spots, but they want eight are provided. Overhead coverage storage. Again, i don't think in the temperate Northwest, you need overhead vehicle coverage for parking.
00:13:37
Speaker
But the need is 110 vehicles. 141 vehicle parking spots are provided. you know after a while, you start, the stuff starts setting up, you start talking about tens of millions of dollars.
00:13:50
Speaker
all right the city and The city mechanic, we have one city mechanic ah that does probably lube oil and filters, probably some brake jobs on our vehicles.
00:14:01
Speaker
And that's the way it's been for for several, several years in one maintenance bay, but they want three maintenance bay. So they need one, three are provided. um They have room for 50% more police vehicles.
00:14:17
Speaker
Again, that's comparing the need, what they call the need to provide it. Same thing for public works employees. seventy and well I hope you asked me about the ah the office space, but we can save that for your whenever you use that.
00:14:34
Speaker
Yeah, let's bookmark that. let's time Okay, let's talk about office space. so Yeah, let's go. Okay, we can talk about that now. Okay, the office space has 17% more public works employees, and it's designed for 41% police employees.
00:14:48
Speaker
Now, keep in mind, these are maintenance workers and police. They get paid or they make their money for us when they're not in the office. Out in field, right. Out in the field.
00:14:59
Speaker
That's where we want our police showing the badge. That's where we want our maintenance folks, et cetera, et cetera. And then also keep in mind... yeah We live in a completely different working environment, office working environment, where you know the city has always, always embraced working from home.
00:15:18
Speaker
Even when I was and on the council, to my frustration, actually, they embraced working from home. It's part of their community trip reduction plan that they, what's that one, IROC or one business that that took over from farmers.
00:15:34
Speaker
Oh, the game company downtown. Yeah, the game company. It's only the game company and the city that subscribes to the CTR, Community Trip Reduction Plan. I mean, that's, and that entails, or the the benefit of that would be a smaller office footprint.
00:15:55
Speaker
We also... And that, by the way, post-COVID is where everybody's gone. Yeah, but we... When we design this or when they design this, it's working just the opposite. instead of having Instead of taking advantage of that for fewer working spaces, they're actually increasing the amount of work spaces and offices.
00:16:13
Speaker
It's completely backwards on that. Riot Games, by the way, is the ah the name of the company we're trying to come up with. yeah um what What I hear you saying is that the needs the needs sound more like a wish list.
00:16:26
Speaker
No, no, no. And in your opinion, maybe a a wish list that's so what you heard, Ruth. The need is what they need. It's the definition of need. The need is what they they should have.
00:16:37
Speaker
I'm not arguing that. That's what I wish they would design the the project to. Would you root the need in in in a present value versus future value? Primarily. Of their staffing, for example? Primarily, yes. i mean in In your mind, that's the big disconnect.
00:16:50
Speaker
Because and i and i suppose because i go go back you know I will go back to the original theme. we are an island No more roads, no more streets, no more sewers, of which the majority of sewer work is done through contract.
00:17:05
Speaker
And the the the amount of people or density is goingnna is going to be limited. I mean, it basically will be at the TOD, if anywhere, the transit-oriented development area, which is a half mile from the train station.
00:17:19
Speaker
So you're not going to see a big population increase. Right.
Alternative Financing Strategies
00:17:25
Speaker
So... have you Have you done the math on what a 20% increase would give us project-wise?
00:17:32
Speaker
Is that a $50 million dollars building? Is it exactly half? I'm sorry, 20%. Where did 20% come from? So you've said that this is this is roughly a 40-some percent tax increase.
00:17:44
Speaker
And you suggested that that a 20% tax increase would be more realistic. So I'm just curious. I would say that's probably a 50 million. yeah know yeah I'm just cutting things in half. So that would be instead of 100 million, that would be 50 million.
00:17:57
Speaker
And that's the key to it, Ben, is that you would start out, you would start out, I say you, the city council's instructions would to the architect would be, i need you to build to our needs and you have a $50 million dollars to do that.
00:18:14
Speaker
That's not at all the way the process worked. The way the process worked, you know, i talked to you all the number of the many, many meetings they had. And then after two years of meetings and development,
00:18:26
Speaker
There was such inertia that, okay, it's going to be $103 million you for this or against it, council. I mean, they've got no choice after that. Right. And keeping keep in mind, we have time.
00:18:39
Speaker
The city has time. The maintenance building has, because they're invested, because they've put some money, they've put a million dollars into maintenance for the ah for this biennium,
00:18:52
Speaker
And then another million they're promising for the next biennium, 2 million in the next ah two, three, four years. That'll extend the life of that building five to seven years.
00:19:02
Speaker
And compare that to how long this process takes. This process takes about three and a half years. When I say this process, I'm talking about ah designing the building and then constructing the building. It takes about three and a half years.
00:19:16
Speaker
And that was talked about at the may twenty first um at the May 21st meeting last year. Okay. so So it it sounds to me like, you know, you'd have a roughly $50 million dollars project and your proposal would be to say, okay, let's figure out with with that constraint, what our current needs are today.
00:19:37
Speaker
You know, perhaps there's going to be some, you know additional need that they'd identify or whatever, but, you know, as long as you keep it within ah within this budget and you can make it happen,
00:19:49
Speaker
then but and you would support a project moving forward with that. why is that Ben? We have a track record. you know if I was the council, I would look at the hard voting data of the last two defeats, which ye the magic number seems to be around 40%.
00:20:07
Speaker
40% doesn't seem to be tolerated by the community. Well, and I was going to ask you this. So I'm curious, but either do it Does anyone from the city council or city or the school board come and talk to you about something like this before they put it on the ballot to see what you think and whether you'd support it or superintendent talked to me ah ah about it before he floated the blonde.
00:20:30
Speaker
And I assume you gave him you know your initial i gave my initial feedback. I I hadn't dug into it enough. I hadn't decided one way or the other. I was, to his credit, if you will, I appreciated, I really truly appreciated him talking with me.
00:20:46
Speaker
And then, of course, I started getting into the numbers and that directed where I went. Okay. Gotcha. which Which you did at a later time. Well, I will say...
00:20:57
Speaker
So there's a fascinating discussion with, again, the former council member Jake Jacobson, where he warns, I think was back in May of 24, he warns, I kind of sense that he, well, I'll just say that he warned against, quote unquote, gold plating, and that the islanders wouldn't tolerate that. So there're there were there yellow flags going So that that brings up another question I have. So when we talked about the school bond measure, your feeling was that it was a ah gold or platinum plated project. You know, a lot of sustainability features, you know, a lot of a lot of things that drove the cost of the building significantly.
00:21:41
Speaker
In this case, a lot of what I've heard you talk about seems to be scope creep in terms of future staffing and and upsizing of the facility. But do you also have a similar opinion about the the build quality and the construction? i mean Is that driving? you know Do we have a bunch of gold plating going on just in the construction materials chosen and the style and all of that? Do you have any sense of that?
00:22:03
Speaker
I don't think it's gold-plated as it could be, although I will say it is a beautiful, beautiful building. If you look at my website, www.mi4ss, I have one tab of renderings, and it is a beautiful, beautiful, it is a big, beautiful building.
00:22:22
Speaker
So you're happy, potentially, if I'm kind of distilling down our discussion so far, you're all right with beautiful. ah it's just It's just too big. I don't want even go that far. It's let's just focus on it being too big. i mean, I haven't, there's been one meeting. i think there's been about one meeting talking about the materials and whatnot, but it's, it's a maintenance building. Then it's a beautiful maintenance building.
00:22:48
Speaker
I'll be speaking with Dave Rosenbaum later later this week, and I hope to dive into more specifics about what we're getting for the spend. So um so those of you listening can stay tuned and check that episode out.
00:23:01
Speaker
So let's let's dive into the costs little bit, because I thought our discussion on the school bond measure costs were very contentious. um you know There was a lot of arguing about percentages, this, that, or the other.
00:23:13
Speaker
And I thought our discussion really helped me kind of understand how you arrived at the percent tax increase. Can you take us through the math on this one, Mike, on what the what the cost is going to be for for your average island resident? Yes, I can. And I have a lot of numbers in out there on the community A lot of numbers. And the the pro campaign has said there's misinformation out there.
00:23:43
Speaker
But they have not said, no, it's not 200% increase in total storage area. It's one hundred and seventy five percent increase or They haven't said no, Mike, you're wrong. It's not a 66% increase in square footage of office or maintenance space. It should be 25%.
00:24:00
Speaker
twenty five percent No, Mike, it's not 141 overhead covered vehicle parking spot. It's actually 120. So they've, and and believe me, if my numbers were off as they should, as they should, they would point that out. And they've got the manpower or the, uh,
00:24:20
Speaker
the expertise to identify that through their architect firm. there's There's no reason why they couldn't say, hey, Mr. Architect, what is the difference? Might get 66% increase in square footage.
00:24:32
Speaker
What's the actual square footage? Does that make sense? So to answer your part to answer part of your question, I've not been called out on any of these numbers. And that's kind of the way it works, right? There's there's a ah back and forth between the pro and the con campaign.
00:24:48
Speaker
I've submitted my numbers to the community and they've not been pushed back and said, nope, that's not right. It should be this. ah Agreed? I've been claimed to be producing misinformation, but that information has not been been shown to be incorrect.
00:25:06
Speaker
To answer your question, how much is this going to cost? ah Like we always do. There's no secret here. ah We always... Say how much this is going to cost. So this is going to cost, the bond is $103 million, right?
00:25:20
Speaker
With taxes, $174 million. So when it's after the 25 years paying down. with What do you mean within after after interest? the interesting Now, is that right or wrong to say that? Well, the city puts out that it costs $660 dollars.
00:25:35
Speaker
dollars a year for the median household, which right now runs $2 million. So that $660 includes both principal and interest, if you will.
00:25:46
Speaker
So it's very it's in line to say the total price tag will be $170. 100%.
00:25:53
Speaker
Now, I would also like to bring your attention to um the ordinance that it's actually an ordinance that we're voting on, Ordinance 25-13 on the second page.
00:26:04
Speaker
This is very interesting. What the Ordinance 25-13, again, we're talking about how much is this going to cost on page two, section one finding. It says, quote, costs of the project, which are estimated to be more than $103 million,
00:26:23
Speaker
will be paid from proceeds of the bonds authorized herein and other available funds of the city. Did you get that, Ben, or do I need to read that over? I got it.
00:26:34
Speaker
So so was just going to class is this going to cost $103 million? No, they say right there and the in the ordinance. Costs of the project, which are estimated to be more than $103 million.
00:26:48
Speaker
so So where does the rest of money come from? Well, it says right here, will be paid from proceeds of the bonds authorized herein and other available funds.
00:26:59
Speaker
Now, this is part of my proposal. It's actually step three financing. of my proposal that people can find on the website. This word available funds, that's a finance term at the city and the state level when they talk about when they talk about a bit a different colors of funds, if you will.
00:27:21
Speaker
Okay, so they talk about unassigned funds, assigned funds, committed funds, restricted funds, and then available funds. So by RS, one of the things that we're proposing, again, this is available on the website, is that to use the city fund balance, which we think is very generous, use the city fund balance to partly fund the city building.
00:27:46
Speaker
So yes, it may it maybe be 50 million, but let's say 10 to 20 million can come from existing funds. And how do we know those funds exist?
00:27:57
Speaker
Again, this is this a big criticism criticism ah the PRO campaign has of me. How do we know? they They'll claim that the funds do not exist. How do we know the funds exist? Well, they say right there in the Ordinance that that ah the additional funds will come from other available funds of the city.
00:28:20
Speaker
yeah And all of the city's accounting should be public record, right? i mean, it's all out there. Now, is there precedent for using these funds from, we calculated the total fund balance for 2024 actually there precedent doing that?
00:28:38
Speaker
ninety eight million but is there a is there a precedent for doing that Yeah. Back in 2004, this is this kind of before my time, ah but back and in in 2004 and 2000, a couple years before that, the city floated a bond for a new community center and it failed.
00:29:00
Speaker
So a couple years after that, what they said, well, we'll just find the money in our city funds. And in 2004, they self-financed basically.
00:29:13
Speaker
13 million to build the community center. So 10 million, roughly 10 million of that came out of the funds after out of different fund balances. And then they did a councilmatic bond with existing revenue streams for 3 million.
00:29:29
Speaker
And that was 13 million. 13 million in 2004 is roughly equivalent to 22 million 2025. So $50 million building so a fifty million dollars building could only cost citizens half that, $25 million.
Staffing and Revenue Considerations for Expanded Facilities
00:29:45
Speaker
If they use some of the money that exists within city coffers already. If they use the example from 2004, nothing new. If they use the example of 2004, inflation adjusted.
00:29:58
Speaker
And keep in mind, the twenty and these are numbers that I'm throwing out, okay? I apologize for that. In 2014, our fund balance was $33 million. Inflation adjusted,
00:30:10
Speaker
That would be roughly $50 million. I'm going to use round numbers. That would be roughly $50 million today. Okay, that's half of the $100 million fund balance today. So you're saying the city has $100 million dollars sitting in various buckets of money.
00:30:26
Speaker
Right. Not all of it is available, of course. But more than none of it. And as an example, in 2004, they used the equivalent of $22 million in today's dollars to finance the community. Gotcha.
00:30:40
Speaker
Okay. so So you're saying there's there's a precedent for this. It's been done. Right. so have so So your proposal is not only reduce the scope of the project, but then also have part of it funded by a tax increase and the other part funded by money that's already been collected from citizens.
00:30:56
Speaker
that's great yeah That's right. So I can see where the community could get a maintenance facility with a police department and an EOC. I could see where they could get it through count simply fund balances plus a councilmatic bond that would be through existing revenue sources.
00:31:12
Speaker
Okay. That makes sense to me. um And so the $660 per 2 million household, that's that's not your number. That's the number that the city has provided. Is that correct?
00:31:27
Speaker
Well, pretty much give me some credit for ah little bit of math. Their number is $55 a month. So I simply multiplied 55 times.
00:31:40
Speaker
All right. I'll give you that credit. Fair enough. Thank you. All right. um since Since we're on numbers ah and and the cost side of this, the the other piece of this that's been burning in the back of my mind is You know, you've got all this additional, you know, more more police, more public workspace, more office space, et cetera, et cetera, more maintenance space.
00:32:06
Speaker
I'm assuming that, and and I'm sure you are too, that that means that we'll have more employees ah filling the space. Who pays for all that? Good for you, Ben. You know, I haven't got into that or tried to put a number on that, but I'm glad you see through that.
00:32:24
Speaker
You know...
00:32:26
Speaker
When we talk about another 31 vehicles, increase in storage when you know most factories, all factories use lean inventory, just-in-time inventory.
00:32:40
Speaker
When we talk about 50% more police vehicles, when we talk about 17% more public works employees, you know probably at 150,000 today, fully burdened,
00:32:53
Speaker
forty one percent more police employees That comes at a very high training and and equipment premium. I mean, the 103 slash 174 million ah doesn't scratch the surface.
00:33:08
Speaker
In terms of the total expenditures here, right? Because you've got, that just pays for the building. For somebody's vision, Ben, for somebody's vision of what this building's gonna be used for, right?
00:33:19
Speaker
For somebody's vision. And who's that somebody? Well, the process was that the architect firm interviewed all the department heads. So I think it's the, you know, God bless them and everything, but that's not their job.
00:33:34
Speaker
The vision is from the council, not from the department heads who were interviewed and asked in infinite detail, I'm sure, what they needed or what they what they wanted in the future.
00:33:50
Speaker
Actually, that that's what the guidance was, what they needed in the 25 to 50 year future. i mean, I think the the picture you paint is, and I think you've mentioned this on your website, it's like, well, for most of us who are running a business or let's say our household finances,
00:34:06
Speaker
um and you're looking at a project, you know you kind of start with what you can afford. right and And then you sort of scope, you know you have a certain amount of needs or wants, but you scope that with within the confines of what you can afford.
00:34:20
Speaker
And what you're saying is that that the the project got built up and and then the last meeting, as you say, was was what's it going cost? And that'll be interesting to you know talk with talk with Dave and and get his perspective on you know, how he saw it coming together. Obviously he was a part of all those meetings, but it does, you know, you know, from, from your framing, it does seem like that that's a bit backwards.
00:34:43
Speaker
So, so to answer the question, I think if, if we have all this space, there's two ways to pay for this, right? It's either the Island grows and our tax revenue grows.
00:34:55
Speaker
Um, and I, I, I presume that that would pay for the additional maintenance workers and police and all that. or Oh, wait a minute. Wait, Ben, what do you mean the island grows? Well, in other words, the population of the island grows, right? So you've got more dense housing, you know more apartments, whatever. You're you're able to to get more tax revenue per square foot.
00:35:16
Speaker
So that's well i assume that's I assume that's one argument. The other argument is that, and you would probably take this argument, that really it's not going to grow. And that means that we're going have to have additional tax increases to operate ah the city with all these additional resources.
00:35:34
Speaker
um Yeah. Well, I mean, is this is the time to put the brakes on it. There are multiple places where the Council can raise taxes, B&O taxes, sales tax, utility tax.
00:35:52
Speaker
You just go down the list, levies. So if if the citizens are asleep at the wheel, they can really squeeze more and more taxes, an infinite amount of taxes out of every square inch of property, if you will.
00:36:07
Speaker
Yeah. and and And ultimately, that's you know my father-in-law had a saying when we were running in business together that a business will grow to fill the space available. And you know we were always very concerned about not having too big a space because you know things that grow into it, whether or not you have you know the need or the the business to support it. right So I guess through that lens, you've got a big big building here.
00:36:33
Speaker
um You know, the headcount tends to grow perhaps to to fill that space available. And then the question is, you know, how do you pay for that long term? So that's that's the other part of this, I guess, that could be ah another big cost in the future.
Facility Replacement Needs and Accreditation Concerns
00:36:45
Speaker
Well, this conversation has been constructive. I know i had one other question and I don't think you've touched on this, but do we need a brand new building? i mean, can the existing facilities be repaired or abated? And I know there was an asbestos issue, or is that building just truly toast and needs to be torn down and and and rebuilt anew?
00:37:06
Speaker
You know, I will give that to the community. You can actually find differing opinions on that, but I'll give i'll give that to the city. I'll give to the city that they need.
00:37:18
Speaker
Condemning the city hall was the right thing to do. I'll give that to the city. I'll give to the city that the maintenance building ah cannot be renovated on a yeah cost feasible basis.
00:37:31
Speaker
So I'd like to advance the time we spend on that, past that, and get down to, do we need a big, beautiful building to replace what we've moved on from?
00:37:42
Speaker
And i without saying that, you know I've got to keep saying that the present maintenance facility will has been, and this is to the city's credit, has been, money's been identified give it another five to seven years. Well within time for the city to stop and develop a new plan.
00:38:05
Speaker
So I guess maybe maybe to wrap our discussion, so how long do you think it would take? So so it sounds like they need a building. They've got some time to do that. How long does it take to retool and spin up another bond measure that that is um more more conservatively funded?
00:38:24
Speaker
that you'd agree with? Is that like another year? Does that take two years? i mean, what's the what's the cycle time on that? Well, um you know yeah I think it can be done in a quarter, in the three months.
00:38:37
Speaker
If you come and if they analyze what our proposal is, which part of that proposal is, analyze the past two defeats, And, you know, that you cut if you bring it in from $100 million to $50 million, build a $50 million dollars building, design a $50 million dollars ah building, ah cut another $20 million from self-financing from your funds, that's $30 million.
00:39:05
Speaker
I mean, I'll be on the Island Crest Way and 40th with, the yes, vote for this sign, yard signs.
00:39:16
Speaker
Okay. and you And you think that's that could be back on the ballot sometime in 2027? Sorry, that? That could be on the ballot sometime in 2026. I mean, if they did a 30 million, 40 million bond, they could pass that with no problem.
00:39:34
Speaker
And then would there be anybody to talk to on the on the vote no side? Now, what that would mean, what's that? said, would there be anybody left to talk to on the vote no side under that condition? I don't think so. that saves me some time, not having to do another podcast on that one.
00:39:49
Speaker
Well, it would say it would say me three months. I mean, uh, my group and I, we spend a lot of time on this and we don't do it because it's necessarily fun. Uh, it takes, it takes a lot of personal time and effort and expense mind you.
00:40:03
Speaker
So Mike, we've spent some time talking about the, you know, a window of, time for the maintenance building. you know They've got a couple of years of runway. What about the police? Because I was in there the other day, they're they're in two or three portable buildings, definitely ah not an ideal temporary setup.
00:40:21
Speaker
What about the police? what How do you kind of view the time that they have and what do we do in the meantime? Right. So they've identified the police as losing their accreditation. So I looked to the Washington Association of Sheriff and Police Chiefs on just what entails accreditation.
00:40:35
Speaker
And it's actually quite reassuring the things that are inspected of our police from a use of force, incident logs for 24-day inspect, background investigations, the they look to inspect those, ah backup protocols, they look That is the this Washington Associated Sheriff and Police Chiefs.
00:40:59
Speaker
ah You can imagine they probably descend on our police department and and look at all their paperwork. And of the 175 or so different standards and required proofs, of the 175 I only saw about one or two that actually had to do with actual facility, right?
00:41:20
Speaker
Photo of lobby area depicting physical barriers. Well, obviously they don't have that. Is that enough to lose accreditation? Well, I would say no. I hope not. Yeah, rest rest assured, this is a positive.
00:41:33
Speaker
ah That which accredits are the 175 odd questions ah for our police department to get accreditation has nothing to do with the facility. And that's a good thing. So if we're losing accreditation, ah kind of worry about why we're losing accreditation because, it like I say, it has to do with with ah paperwork. It has to do with knowledge of our officers, professionalism of our officers, that type of stuff.
00:42:02
Speaker
So Mike, where is that concern for loss of accreditation coming from? Is that that part of the narrative for why we need to do this project or is that something completely separate and and that you've just ah observed?
00:42:16
Speaker
So the ah pro campaign has sent out three emails. One of their emails ah references accreditation. I see. Okay. Okay. So, so part of the concern of, of potentially not doing this is that we somehow jeopardize the accreditation for the police department.
00:42:32
Speaker
But your, your view is that that might be, that that's overstated. Well, actually, i think I think what they say is that they have lost accreditation. And again, I say, well, wait a minute. i'm looking at the 175 checks that the Washington Association of Sheriffs and police chiefs do to accredit a police department, and they're independent of the facility.
00:42:54
Speaker
It has to do with, you know, are you qualified on your weapon? Do you understand lethal force? Do you understand non-lethal force? Reports on lethal force? Reports on non-lethal reports?
00:43:06
Speaker
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Okay. Well, that's, ah again, another another discussion point that I'll have with Dave Rosenbaum, get some more perspective on that. So thank you for thanks for talking about that.
00:43:17
Speaker
Yeah, well, Mike, ah listen, thank thank you very much for, for as I said at the top of the show, thank very much for the time you put into it and and and thank you to your team. um
Conclusion and Contact Information
00:43:28
Speaker
If you want to check out ah the website, it's mi4ss.com.
00:43:35
Speaker
um and And that's the letter, or that's the word for, it's not M-I-F-O-R-S-S. M-I-F-O-R-S-S dot com. Or you can just Google Mercer Islanders for sustainable spending.
00:43:46
Speaker
um Mike, thank thank you very much for taking the time to to talk with me. um Look forward to it, ah to catching up ah in November and see what the result is.
00:43:57
Speaker
Thank you very much. Thank you for your time, Ben. All right. Good talking to you.