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2026 Mercer Island School District EP&O Levy Discussion with Dr. Fred Rundle
86 Plays11 days ago
In this episode of Mercer Matters, I sit down with Superintendent Dr. Fred Rundle to break down the upcoming EP&O (Enrichment Programs and Operations) levy on the ballot for February 10. We cover the basics—what the levy funds, how it fits into school financing in Washington state, and the differences between levies and bonds. Dr. Rundle shares a fact-based overview from his perspective as district leader, including how the levy supports day-to-day operations like staffing, class sizes, nurses, intervention teachers, electives, and the seven-period day at the high school. We also touch on enrollment trends, budget challenges, and what happens if the levy doesn't pass.
This conversation aims to give Mercer Island residents the info they need to make an informed vote—no spin, just the details. If you're a parent, taxpayer, or community member, this one's worth a listen as ballots are already in mailboxes.
Check out previous episodes on the school bond measure for more context. Subscribe to stay updated on local issues that matter.
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Transcript
Introduction and Purpose of the Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, everybody. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Mercer Matters podcast. I'm Ben Sharp, your host. Here with me today is Dr. Fred Rundle, superintendent of the Mercer Island School District.
What is the EP&O Levy and Why Does It Matter?
00:00:12
Speaker
Today, we're talking about the EP&O levy that ah the the voters pamphlet and and ballots, I've got them sitting on my desk here, Dr. Rundle. They're in our mailboxes. um So i was hoping to take some time with you today. And thank you very much for joining to just talk about the levy, what it is, what it's not, what it funds, what it doesn't fund, and just give everybody kind of an overview of what they're going to be voting on. So again, Dr. Rundle, thanks again for for joining me.
00:00:42
Speaker
um Maybe I'll just turn it over to you to start just to give people High level, what what is the levy and what does it
Understanding School Funding in Washington State
00:00:51
Speaker
pay for? Yeah, that's a great question. And thanks for having me back, Ben. You know, at the end of the day, my responsibility in this moment is to make sure people have the right information to make the best decision on on the 10th of February or whenever they mail in their their ballot. So if this is another way I can help with that process for the community, i just want to thank you.
00:01:13
Speaker
ah In the state of Washington, it's a little interesting how ah school funding works. There's, if you kind of break down your tax bill, the largest chunk of your tax bill, right around just under 35%, actually goes to all state schools. And so when we think about that pie chart, you know, basically a ah third of of the contributions you're making on your tax bill doesn't come directly to Mercer
Types and Purposes of School Levies
00:01:44
Speaker
Island. It actually goes to the state of Washington um and then they collect it and then they apportion it back out or or hand it back out. There's another portion of your tax bill um that's related to local school levies. And school levies have been around since the mid 70s in the state of Washington. They've been called a couple different things. And a school district can run three different types of levies.
00:02:12
Speaker
ah One is the EP&O levy, and that's the one we're talking about today. ah The full name is Enrichment Programs and Operations. The second levy that school districts run, which we have one that's active right now, it actually doesn't expire for two more years. And that's the capital and technology levy. And then the third one, which we haven't run for a number of years, it's probably been over a decade, is called a transportation levy, obviously, when you're looking to buy ah buses.
Impact of the EP&O Levy on Operations and Staffing
00:02:41
Speaker
um And so the key difference between the CAPTEC or the Capital Technology Levy and the EP&O is that Capital Tech really helps us to do um maintenance and renovations to our facilities as well as pay for ah the technology side of education, both of which are not funded by the state. And so then local school districts and districts run their levies to pay for those. So an example is the new update to the Merriway Pool. That was a joint partnership where the county put in $2 million, and we put in $2 million from the CapTech levy, which we had promised the voters the last time they approved it.
00:03:25
Speaker
And so that facility has now been upgraded there. So those that's kind of the CAPTEC. The EP&O levy, enrichment programs and operations, that's really paying for the day-to-day operations of the school district, the enhancements to our school district in terms of those programs and enrichment that the state doesn't fund. Because as I said at the beginning, a third of your tax bill is going to the state and that just doesn't come back. And when we've talked about, you know, that the state simply doesn't fund or fully fund education, it's the enrichment levy, this EP&O levy, which really um attempts to close that gap. And while we still need even more funding and we're working hard in Olympia on that, this is our best way to make sure that dollars raised here on Mercer Island stay on Mercer Island.
00:04:14
Speaker
So that's really helpful. And i I just learned quite a lot there.
Challenges with State Funding Models
00:04:19
Speaker
So let's let's unpack a little bit. I had no idea there were three different types of levies. So I'm curious, could you and I know this is going to be a complex answer, so forgive me, ah but maybe you could simplify this.
00:04:30
Speaker
What does the state pay for and and what are some examples of what they don't pay for and what the gaps are? If I just start at the personnel side, um the state uses what they call a prototypical school model. So they have essentially said, based on, you know, the model that they built, here is what an elementary school needs. You know, it needs a principal. It needs, you know, this...
00:04:56
Speaker
you know, this number, you know, custodians and psychologists and others. And so they've come up with this prototypical school model. The problem is their model is not only outdated, but it's insufficient. And so they only fund about two thirds of the positions that we believe are necessary in a school. If it weren't for something like the levy, for instance, we'd have one nurse for all six schools.
00:05:22
Speaker
but our EP&O levy is what helps us to maintain a higher staffing model. And I know we had to reduce some of it because of inflation and and other costs of things. And so we don't have six full-time nurses like we've had before, but we do have five with a health room assistant in one of our schools.
00:05:42
Speaker
And that's driven by student need. And so that that's a direct example. Other things that the district helps or that the state will help pay for are things like benefits for for employees. However, they only pay those benefits on the the staff that they think you need. So when you're talking about your enrichment program and operations levy, the programs that we're running with more staff, then we have to fill in some of those gaps. And so That's really that EP&O really comes in handy. and And the last one I'll give you is our materials, supplies and operating costs.
00:06:20
Speaker
It's called MSOC. That's, you know, the state provides a certain amount of money per student to help with, you know, the overall operations. Well, The cost of insurance has gone up, the cost of utilities have gone up, and the rates at which they're increasing from the state do not keep pace with that. And so it's really this EP&O levy, which is actually 16% of our entire operating budget, that kind of makes us whole. And it's one thing, you know i know we still have have the bond and and kind of moving past that, but it's one thing to fail a bond.
00:06:56
Speaker
It's a whole nother to fail a levy in for for our school district simply because of that operating side.
Differentiating Bonds and Levies
00:07:03
Speaker
I completely why people were hesitant or resistant on the bond and and no ill feelings from me at all.
00:07:11
Speaker
But that's really a totally separate thing that's building buildings. This is really what's in it for our students day in and day out. Yeah. And and so let's let's spend a time on that because I think that's a really important distinction. I want to give you some some airspace here to talk about that. so Because a lot of people come up to me and say, well, what is even the difference between the two? you know And so I think it's part of the challenge is the bond was framed as essential, okay I think, by the you know the the folks that were supporting it.
00:07:39
Speaker
At least understanding, this is truly essential essential. The bond might've been a nice to have or and or a semi-essential nice to have. This is day to day. If this levy doesn't pass, you know what what what are some of the implications? Can you spend some time kind of talking through that?
00:07:54
Speaker
Sure. You know, on the bond side, the essential nature of that or non-essential nature of that, um I think you're getting into that, which is a great conversation. And, you know, the bond is really an investment in the infrastructure. The the community owns the buildings ah and that make up the school district. And so when you're talking about bonds, you're talking about bonds.
00:08:15
Speaker
big projects that a cap tech levy simply can't fund. um We don't raise enough money, that's really for maintenance. um But the EP&O is really for what happens in the schools day in and day out.
Community Expectations and Educational Programs
00:08:30
Speaker
So I'll give you some examples. um you know I was just crunching some numbers a couple weekends ago as I'm thinking about next year and um we've been able to maintain class sizes in our elementary. Average class size this year I think is 21.385 students per class. And I know we have some classes that are 28, but we also have some that are 17 or, you know, and so
00:08:55
Speaker
regionally, we've been able to maintain some smaller class sizes because of that. In our middle school and our high school, we have a cap of 33 kids in a class. I'm hearing of neighboring districts where they're up around 38, 39 in a class So we've been able to really keep our class sizes smaller and we're able to add additional staffing because of the levy. Another example is, you know, we received Title I funding, which is funding for students who qualify for free and reduced lunch. But we only receive we receive about one hundred thousand dollars and that's not even enough for one intervention teacher.
00:09:32
Speaker
And so we've been able to take our dollars that we get from the state, a little bit from the federal government. And, you know, that kind of maybe pays for two intervention teachers. Our EP&O levy affords us so that we can have an intervention teacher in all four elementaries instead of just two or splitting between them.
00:09:50
Speaker
And then when you kind of move to especially on into the middle school, you know, how do you maintain a certain number of elective classes, being able to make sure that we have band and orchestra and choir and languages? being able to have Chinese, French, and Spanish instead of just maybe one or two.
00:10:11
Speaker
And then a big piece at the high school, and this one is a little bit tricky, especially if your kids are in elementary school and they're not in high school yet, but our seven period day is a really ah special aspect of the high school. um And I know we have some neighboring school districts that actually went away from their seven period day to the six period day. So the state funds our students based on a six period day. In our seventh period day, what that does for students is a couple things. One is there's 24 credits to graduate high school and many of those are dictated. So you have four electives.
00:10:47
Speaker
Well, by having a seven period day, you've essentially added four more electives for kids during their high school experience.
Advocacy and Levy Caps
00:10:54
Speaker
That could be for doubling up on science. That could be for taking that extra radio class or that fine arts class, being able to take jazz band plus classes. chamber or ah orchestra or something. So it really opens up the schedule. And that's been, ah you know, a real hallmark of our of our high school. um And then certainly, you know, things that we've been able to maintain and we've had to add some fees to things like band and orchestra and choir and drama for our elementary kids. But we are still offsetting that with the EP&O levy. So those are the types of things that go away when you don't have that 16 percent enhancement.
00:11:33
Speaker
Okay, no, that's that's super helpful. so So to kind of reframe this a little bit, the EP&O, the state gives you enough money to operate kind of on a skeleton crew. And then the EP&O levy, or really all the levies, allow you to operate the district ah up to the community's expectations, whatever community that might be. Like here on Mercer Allen, we have a set of expectations as parents.
00:11:55
Speaker
um as a community, you know other places elsewhere. But that the levies are kind of the the bridge that to finance that gap. is that That is an excellent way to put that, Ben. um And there's you know one more thing about the EP&O levy. um There is a cap on it.
00:12:11
Speaker
So we can only ask voters for a certain amount. And that amount is based on a per pupil account. And then there's a factor that there's a multiplier for that. and the state legislature recognized that they're continuing not to fund public ed ah to the full degree. And so they raised that by $500 a student last year. And so this particular levy is really going to help us to start closing some of those funding gaps that we've had and maintaining programs and offering, I think you put it well, what does the community expect?
Legal Context and Funding Challenges Post-McCleary
00:12:51
Speaker
Just a random thought popped in my head, but why why does the state cap what we could we can levy ourselves? like it's why Why do they do that? Why do they care? So they didn't used to. um Interestingly enough, prior to the McCleary decision, which was when the state was sued, the legislature was sued by because the contention was that they're not fully funding education, which is a paramount responsibility in the state constitution.
00:13:18
Speaker
And so when the state was sued, then the legislature had to figure out how are they going to fully fund education? And what they did is they said, well, we're going to increase the amount that we're going to collect from your local taxes. and then we're going to fully fund you.
00:13:36
Speaker
And so then in exchange, we're going to limit the amount that you can levy your local voters because we're going to take care of it. um The problem is that calculus just hasn't worked out. And at the end of the day now, yeah six, seven years post McCleary, we're in a situation where the state's collecting a lot from the local taxpayer. Don't get me wrong, a 30 year bill is going to public ed. Yeah, but it's falling short. It's not coming back sufficiently. And we're now capped on the on the levy side. We're not capped on the cap tech levy. um but we are on the EP&O, which makes it incredibly challenging. So we went from collecting 16 million ah prior to McCleary to 12 million up through this year. And so this will allow us to um you know collect more, but we were it really hit us hard.
00:14:32
Speaker
So is that something that you're actively speaking out against or in favor of modifying or like, how is the sausage made on that? How how do you represent us as a district? Because I assume you don't, you know, but based on what I'm hearing, you don't think that makes a whole lot of sense for us. No, I mean, we were pushing really hard last year to get that raise and allow us to collect $500 more per student. So that was an example of us. Okay, so that was based on your advocacy. They increased that. Yep.
00:15:00
Speaker
And that took two or three legislative, you know, that took two legislative sessions to get that done. um And there's contention about that because there are some small districts, rural districts in our state who can't pass EP&O levies. They're so small or whatnot. And so the state does have a mechanism for that, and it's called local effort assistance, LEA. Interestingly, though, the state didn't bump their LEA. And so now there's kind of this pitting districts against each other where, you know, the the the west side of the state where epn i mean I can't think of a district on the west side that doesn't have an EP&O levy. but there's others that don't and they didn't get as much. So, you know, it gets tricky, but you know, at the end of the day, I'm i here on Mercer Island. These are the the students that I'm working with and families that I'm advocating for. So yeah, that's an example of that advocacy.
00:15:54
Speaker
Okay. Well, no, thanks. And we won't get any further political in this discussion. But yeah, that's pretty interesting and eye-opening. So you mentioned $12 million number. I assume that's, was that 2026 or that 2025 number? Yeah, you know, and I have to admit that I think our district, when we ran the last EP&O levy four years ago, think there was maybe a bit of a miscalculation and we capped ourselves at 12 million. So we're actually this year, because they have increased the fact, the multiplier for each student with inflation since the original number. So it started off at $2,500 student.
00:16:41
Speaker
Through inflation, it's now, you know, in the current year, it's $3,247 a student. But because we capped ourselves and set it at 12 million, that is all we can get from the voters. Whereas we could have probably collected a little more, probably closer to 12 million. 12.7, 12.8 million this year. And so what we're doing in this next one, and and this one, this kind of can get tricky for voters, but I wanted to make sure it's very transparent.
00:17:14
Speaker
We're setting a number. So when people look in the voter pamphlet or they're looking at it, they'll see a number of the district's gonna collect 16 million the first year, then 17 million, then 18, then 19. we really won't probably be collecting that number because we're still capped by the
Enrollment Impact on Funding and Staffing
00:17:33
Speaker
multiplier. And so what we tried to do is instead of what we did last time, which is just set a flat 12 million across the board, we tried to build in some capacity. But I just want to assure taxpayers that we won't be collecting that full amount every time ah because of state statute and and the way that we'll do that. but it's just builds in that buffer. Cause let's say the state decides, well, we're going to add another $200 per student. Well, if we already have that buffer in there, we don't have to go back to voters or we don't have to leave money on the table. We can drive it right to our students right away.
00:18:08
Speaker
Okay. So that's, that's super interesting. So you've, you've built in a mechanism to be flexible. I'm curious, is that, is that sort of algorithm purely like decided by the state or is that something where the school board,
00:18:22
Speaker
would vote on, like, how does that work? I guess like that extra $200 who decides whether or not that gets levied that, that tax year. um So what the voters approve in this particular ballot initiative is what we can collect for the next four years.
00:18:42
Speaker
We can't collect any more. And so we anticipate next year, if if all things being equal, probably collecting somewhere around 15.6 million next year, maybe depending on enrollment. But as as you'll see on the ballot or on the the voter pamphlet, you know what we've allotted for 16 million. We're not gonna hit that, but it builds in that buffer. And so as enrollment goes down, we might potentially collect less because it's always based on the number of students we have um as we go through. Does that answer your question? Yeah, yeah, that that that that does. Okay, so it's, So there's a there's a cap and then you guys, it'll figure you'll figure out the map.
00:19:29
Speaker
And the the county is really the one that um that apportions out that money. So as they collect, and so we have to send them specific things around what is our enrollment? what is you know There's all kinds of things we have to do with the county.
00:19:43
Speaker
Okay. um that's That's very helpful. My next question. So you touched on the district having to do some layoffs and reduce services as a result of budget shortfalls over the last couple of years. And I think that if you have kids in school on Mercer Island, you've probably felt that.
00:20:01
Speaker
I know we have in our family. Dr. Little, does this sort of right size and fix that in your opinion, or is there still some austerity moving forward just as a result of inflation and sort of just costs going up? Can you just frame if this levy passes, how does that affect some of the the cuts and budget reductions that you've had to make? Great question. We will have to continue to adjust our staffing to the number of students we have. um I don't have it right in front of me, but I i think we are going to be down around 100, maybe 110 students next year compared to this year.
00:20:40
Speaker
And again, that's because we're graduating out a pretty big senior class and we're only anticipating 190 kindergarteners next year. And so that's really where the delta continues to show up.
00:20:54
Speaker
As we're moving kids through our elementary schools, whereas we used to maybe be at 300, 320 students ah in a cohort, you know now we're around
00:21:07
Speaker
um So it doesn't make sense to have, let's say, all the same number of third grade teachers as we've had before if we don't have those same number of students um on that. So what this levy really helps us with is to make sure that we maintain programs.
Role and Trends in Open Enrollment
00:21:23
Speaker
um I certainly wouldn't promise people that we're going to be able to you know add some massive new program, but it certainly makes sure that we can maintain programs and not have to think about those further reductions that impact you know um specific you know things like band and orchestra or the languages um in our middle school. It's being able to really continue to fund those and make sure we have a seven period day that we're running ah these different options for our students. So then the new adjustments that we're going to make in short are really just going to be in relation to how many students do we have. As our middle school gets smaller, we don't need the same number of of administrators at the middle school, even though you know it would be great to have three and three and a half administrators. When you start getting smaller, you just don't need as many. And so we also have to be smart that way.
00:22:19
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. and i And this is a conversation you and I have had off and on over the last three or four years now. And and maybe you could just take a minute to address the the the challenge of enrollment on the island. where Where are we at with that? Is it still a ah decline? Has the decline sort of slowed a little bit? I mean, what's what's kind of your your take?
00:22:43
Speaker
And also, we have open enrollment. How is that factored into the you know into all this, I'm just kind of curious from a high level, you know how how we're doing relative to the enrollment challenges.
00:22:55
Speaker
The current enrollment, it continues to decline, but it's declining at a predictable um amount. And so let me give you some statistics from just the state in general, and then I'll work us down to our district. so in 2425, in the state of Washington, we had graders.
00:23:21
Speaker
And we only had 71,450 rounding kindergartners. So that delta that we're seeing between 12th grade and kindergarten is a very similar delta that we're seeing here on Mercer Island, where um this year we have just under 200 students in kindergarten. But our graduating seniors, they have almost 350 students. And so that is really the the delta. And there are a couple drivers to that. We continue to try to look into that. In fact, one of those is, you know, what's happening with real estate. And I meet with realtors four times a year. In fact, I have one coming up here at the end of January. Well, this week. where we where I'll meet with realtors and I try to really get a pulse of what's happening. And inventory continues to be a challenge on Mercer Island. Just not a lot of options for families. A lot of realtors still have clients, but there's not the inventory.
00:24:23
Speaker
um But the biggest driver is people are either they're just not having kids. um They're not having babies at the same rate. And it's been declining in King County since 2016. And so that's why we're seeing that kindergarten and first grade and second grade all under 250, whereas third through seventh right now, they're all just right, just below 300. Well, next year, I'm going to have another group now. So we'll have kindergarten, first, second and third below 250. And that's just working up through the system.
00:24:55
Speaker
So open enrollment is not a solution to solve the whole problem. Open enrollment, in my opinion, and I've talked to the board about this and tried to be really transparent. It's really to try to smooth the edges um so ah so that we're not cutting some of those really important um programs. If you start getting you know really low in our high school in particular, but also our middle school, that's when you start losing out on some of those really important classes, like it could be international entrepreneurship. or it could be drama, ah could be you know um you know ceramics. So those features that we've been able to offer, if you start getting too small, you really start losing out on some of those. And so open enrollment, we've been very surgical. um keeping it in middle school and high school only. Last year, there was a period of time where we had brought in enough ninth graders and we capped it and it was closed for about a month until we were able to determine that it would make sense to bring more students in. And so it's really a thoughtful process that we go through. And currently we have 70 students who are here because their parents are employees or they have a or their their parents are our employees of the city. um By state law, we ah have to allow employees, children to attend our school district. And then the board added city employees a couple years ago. And then we have another 70 who are here from open enrollment. So we have less than 4%. I think it's 3.6% of our total population who are here by open enrollment. And Like I said, it's not going to be the reason that, you know, we open the whole district and try to bring in all the students that we can. That doesn't make sense either.
00:26:48
Speaker
So ah my last question on this, I'm just kind of curious more than anything. So for the open enrollment, I mean, is it something where, you know, your inbox is flooded with applications and you have to be super selective or is it kind of, you know, there's just not a lot of interest in enrolling kids here? i mean, what's, There's a lot of interest, particularly ninth grade.
00:27:05
Speaker
Yep. Particularly ninth grade. Okay. Oh, interesting. So but so for the high school. Yep. Yep. And so, you know, families who have kids who maybe they're not on the island and they're in a K-8 private school or maybe they're pleased with their middle school but not sure about the high school. um You know, that's where we're seeing a big jump. We get some in eighth grade and seventh or in sixth, not a lot in seventh. And then we get some in tenth, but it really tails off 11th and 12th grade. Obviously, people are well into high school, but ninth grade's our our biggest demand for sure.
00:27:39
Speaker
Okay. Oh, interesting. Well,
Conclusion and Voter Engagement
00:27:41
Speaker
thanks. Well, let's, you know, I think to to wrap up, Dr. Rundle, I really appreciate your time. and And, you know, I certainly learned quite a lot. I hope everybody listening learned quite a lot.
00:27:51
Speaker
I'll give you the the last word as we wrap up here. Just I hope that what we've provided today in the platform you've provided, Ben, is just giving people more information to make a ah sound choice at the ballot for the 10th. You know, it's not for me to say to vote no or yes. That's not my role. But um hopefully I've been able to kind of clarify.
00:28:13
Speaker
how we use the EP&O levy day in and day out to support students, how much of a budget impact it would be not to have it, and just encourage everyone to vote on February 10th or get those ballots in before.
00:28:28
Speaker
All right, Dr. Rundle, thank you very much. Appreciate your time. Yeah, thank you, Ben.