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Dave Rosenbaum - Vote Yes on on Proposition 1 Public Maintenance and Safety Building
114 Plays1 month ago
On the November ballot, Proposition 1 would authorize $103.16 million in bonds to build a new Public Safety & Maintenance Facility — replacing aging, scattered, and often failing public works, police, and emergency operations infrastructure.
In this episode, I sit down with Deputy Mayor Dave Rosenbaum, longtime Mercer Island Councilmember, parent, and community advocate, for a deep dive into why he supports a “Yes” vote. We talk about:
- the structural and operational risks of existing facilities
- how new design standards (e.g. seismic resilience, efficient layouts) protect public safety and civic services
- the long-term cost vs. repair trade-offs
- how this project fits into Mercer Island’s vision for sustainable growth and resilient infrastructure
To read more about the bond measure and facility plan, see the City’s project page here:
https://letstalk.mercergov.org/21665/widgets/94539/documents/73809
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Hosts
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to this episode of the Mercer Matters podcast. I'm Ben Sharp and I'm your host. I started this podcast about two years ago to give Mercer Island residents another way to get information on local elections and bond measures.
00:00:16
Speaker
If you enjoy this podcast, I would appreciate it if you could like it on the platform that you're listening to and also share with your friends and family via social media. Without further ado, here is the next episode.
Proposition 1 Overview with Dave Rosenbaum
00:00:28
Speaker
Hi, everybody. Thank you for joining this episode of the Mercer Matters podcast. I'm your host, Ben Sharp. And with me today is Dave Rosenbaum, who is the deputy mayor for the city of Mercer Island. And today we'll be discussing Proposition 1, which is a $103 million dollars bond measure to finance construction of a new public safety and maintenance facility here on Mercer Island.
00:00:47
Speaker
It'll be hitting ballots for Mercer Island residents here this November. ah Dave, ah nice to have you join. I've been really excited to talk to you about this project, but maybe first to get started, would you mind just giving a brief introduction of yourself and your background working for the city? Yeah, Ben, thanks so much for having me. And thanks for doing these these podcasts. i I listen to all of them all, so i appreciate ah appreciate your... Oh, you're the one.
00:01:12
Speaker
Thank you. that's Thank you for that. friends and family No, I think it's great. I think, you know, obviously we don't have our own TV stations here on the island. There's sort of a large media outlet. So it's great to you know have the opportunity to talk through these issues with you know folks who are doing their homework.
00:01:26
Speaker
A little bit about me. I was first elected to the council in 2019 and I was elected to be deputy mayor in 2021. Sorry, at the start of the year. um I'm now in my second term as deputy mayor. I was up for reelection 2023.
00:01:42
Speaker
And I fortunately won that. It's been an incredible experience working on behalf of the residents of Mercer Island. And, you know I'm excited about the work we've done and sort of what's ahead of us as well. Awesome. Thanks for that. And again, thank you for all that you do for for all of us in your second full time job as we were chatting about before we got started here.
Project Needs and Infrastructure Importance
00:01:59
Speaker
so Maybe to get started at a high level, would you mind just running us through the project, you know what it is, you know high level, what the needs are and the goals for the project should it pass and get built? Yeah, if it's okay, maybe we can start a little bit with some of the history here because I think that would probably be enlightening to some of your listeners and also yeah sort of set the stage here.
00:02:18
Speaker
you know I think for you know a lot of people who have been to City Hall you know prior to its closure, you know could see that that wasn't in the the best of shape. ah To begin with, you know, the the building was constructed in the 50s and it was built for an insurance company. Right. So you sort of start off with that and then try to put ah a city hall there with a police department.
00:02:38
Speaker
ah You know, it it was never designed to be a city hall and had some deficiencies right off the bat. You know, for example, there aren't a lot of insurance companies that require a holding cell or an armory. So, you know, you sort of had from the beginning had to make some things work. Right. We hope not. You know, and that was, you know, had been sort of an ongoing conversation. I think, you know, what does the future of that look like? But obviously there had never been a major push to renovate it. You know, the last renovations were done in the 1980s.
00:03:02
Speaker
You know, in the Public Works building, which is right behind that, was built 1981 was when the... um you know, when it was built and when the city took control of it. And that was when the population Bristol Island was about 60% of what it is today. So when that facility was built, it wasn't designed to meet the city's needs on a long-term basis and certainly not, you know, now when the population is significantly larger.
00:03:25
Speaker
So back in 2021, Jessie Bond, who I think many folks will probably know, was our city manager, you know she's she's great. She requested that the council ask her, sort of the way that our process works, to to do a formal review of all of our city facilities, um you know especially the the buildings that house staff and offices and and public facing assets, that sort of thing, ah to really understand what what is the current condition and and the needs.
00:03:50
Speaker
And the the idea there was to inform our capital plan and also you know sort out what investments might be necessary down the road. you you know These are all facilities that were in some of the the rubber you know meets the road here in terms of delivering top municipal services to the residents of the island.
City Hall Challenges and Asbestos Issues
00:04:07
Speaker
While that work was ongoing, we discovered that there had been ah issue with asbestos contamination in City Hall, where there're there were known to be asbestos tiles and things like that.
00:04:17
Speaker
One of them got ripped up and some asbestos tiles got taken up into the HVAC system, which is not not something you want to have in any sort of building. You know, we took a lot of really close to look at all sort of the mitigation options, the cleaning options. You know, what would it take to clean that out? We also took a look at some of the deficiencies in the building already, which were were were seismic.
00:04:39
Speaker
you know When we sort of took all these things together, it was really clear that repairing and renovation costs would exceed the value of the building. So that kicked off a whole conversation about what should we do next? What is the most thoughtful approach here? um you know We looked at some different options in terms of potentially relocating City Hall, um you know putting it somewhere else, where would make sense? you know We could maybe refurbish pieces of it. Could we rebuild you know other parts of it?
00:05:02
Speaker
And then we also received the facilities condition assessment for the maintenance building. um So what that showed, and it's a very lengthy document, I've encouraged folks to take a really close look at it, was that there were some really urgent repairs that had to be done. ah You know, for example, there was ah a roof where the membrane was leaking and the drain system consisted of a tarp attached to the ceiling ah with a hose at sort of the bottom of the tarp there, which then drained into a, yeah, into a ah trash bin, which then drained into a floor drain.
00:05:34
Speaker
Obviously not good for for storing materials in a place that you know could essentially leak, you know was leaking 24 hours a day. um There was a very large living roof um and there was some real structural concerns. So they they had to take that off immediately.
00:05:47
Speaker
um And then overall, you know, the building was just not in good shape, it was well past its sort of useful life and will require some replacement.
Plan for Co-locating City Functions
00:05:54
Speaker
So when we sort of learned all this, it became really apparent that having a co-located facility, you know, for elements of City Hall, as well as for our public works and maintenance teams really made a lot of sense. They have a lot of similar needs, um you know, in terms of facilities and and resiliency. So, you know, in the event of an emergency, ah you know, we need those buildings to be operational. And also they work really closely together. So having co-located makes a lot of sense.
00:06:18
Speaker
And then there's you know showers and some other sort of you know facilities that are easier to to to co-locate than build separately. So the the new building will you know combine a lot of these functions. So the emergency operations center, as well as our public works team, our police station, our emergency operations center.
00:06:34
Speaker
The crux of the project is that is that we we we want to co-locate these facilities in a new facility that's That enables them to be more efficient. You know, part we looked at with the maintenance building was, you know, because it wasn't built to support the type of services that we're offering, it is very inefficient. There's incredible amounts of point of conflict as it comes to, ah you know, driving all these sort of heavy equipment around a yard. And also with storage, as I mentioned, there's, you know, the we're we're storing a lot of things outside that should really be stored inside.
00:07:02
Speaker
um That has you know consequences for costs as it comes to how often we're replacing these things. There's a lot of inefficiencies. you know One example is you know we have these large vac trucks that are used to you know clean out debris and water mains and sewer lines and these sorts of things. In the winter, they need to be stored inside. but They have water in them. Obviously, if it freezes, it it could ruin the entire equipment.
00:07:23
Speaker
And these are $700,000 pieces of equipment. So every night they have to be moved inside, despite the fact there might be something worked on inside that could actually be stored outside.
00:07:34
Speaker
So if you imagine you've got a you know police you know patrol ah car up on a lift, at the end of the day, you've to take it down because you need that space to to park the back truck. So it's it's not ideal. So that was one thing that we looked at. I'm happy to get into sort of more process of how we ended up you know with it with the plan that we ended up in. um Just let me know what's what's most interesting.
00:07:55
Speaker
Yeah, I'd love to go there. but But first, there's another component to this, which is the building that that the city bought for $9 million, dollars I think. Yeah. Can you kind of talk about that and how that's part of the whole plan? Because it sounds like only part of the city hall function will be in the new building. But then what about everything else? And how does this other building that was purchased play into that?
00:08:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question. You know, one of the things that that came into our work on a lot of this was understanding what was in city hall. And then also, you know, as it comes to the city as a whole from the workforce, you know, what components are where and where would they be best suited?
00:08:28
Speaker
And also, you know, to build a a building that makes financial sense, you know, we have to understand, you know, what might not be back in City Hall that was there before. So, you know, for a couple examples, you know, so when we purchased this other building next door, you know, the intent here is to have ah other teams that were in City Hall be located there. So you talk about and community development is one of them.
00:08:49
Speaker
The city manager's office, the finance office, those will be located there. And at the end, you know, the hope is to have YFS be there as well. um For folks who have been in the YFS building, it's between 110, 150 year old building.
00:09:00
Speaker
um It is not accessible and there's there's some real concerns about privacy and other things for the counseling that goes on there. The new building is much better suited for that. So in the end, YFS will move in there as well.
00:09:12
Speaker
And then there's some facilities that we're not rebuilding, right? So, you know, City Hall had been home to the City Council Chambers. There was a bit of an ante room there. And also our ah municipal court, you know, is in basically one wing of the building.
00:09:25
Speaker
um The court has been relocated to Newcastle. The team is operating out of there. And then city council, as well as all of our board and commissions, are meeting either fully remotely or over at the community center in the Slater room.
00:09:37
Speaker
You know, we wanted to be really thoughtful about where are we putting space and not saying, hey, just because something was in city hall before, we want we needed to be in, you know, a new building itself. Okay. oh that's That's great insight. So this $103 million, bucks is part of that budget also to do some work on the $9 million dollars building that was bought?
00:09:55
Speaker
Or is that kind of going to be handled from a separate budget item? Or perhaps there's no work that needs to be done?
Funding Strategies for New Building
00:10:01
Speaker
Yeah, that that's handled separately. um You know, we had been really thoughtful, you know, when it became very clear that we were going to have to do some real capital improvement.
00:10:08
Speaker
um And I'll give Mayor Nis, you know a lot of credit here. You know, we started municipal fund, a building fund, and we put in a lot of money into that fund that we knew we would eventually need to spend on on these sorts of facilities.
00:10:21
Speaker
So when we purchased the building next door, that was funded mostly from that fund, as well as some debt that we were able to take on um that didn't require votable approval. it's It's a small amount of debt. So that you know the majority of it was financed by money that we had been very carefully saving along the way, okay knowing that we were going to have these to make you know some really tough decisions about buildings you know in the near future. Okay, great. Yeah, I mean, I guess my next question is um for the, so this building that's going to be built, do do you have numbers on sort of what the breakdown is between the maintenance facility component versus police facilities versus the EOC, which I understand is kind of the three main components or priorities in the building? Do you have kind of a cost breakdown that gets us to that 103 million total? Yeah.
00:11:08
Speaker
I'm not sure there's really an easy way to break it down in that sense. And I'll tell you why. you know part of it that they have a lot of very joint needs. you know If you were to build these in separate spots, they would be you know more expensive than they are to build together. you know For example, this is a level four resiliency as it comes to earthquakes.
00:11:25
Speaker
There's backup power you know for the entire structure, potable and non-potable water. you know If you were to build those things separately in different places, you you'd be buying a lot of things twice. So they would be a lot more expensive.
00:11:36
Speaker
But it's sort of hard to say this piece of building costs X and this piece costs Y. So you mentioned earlier about kind of taking us through the process of how you put together, you know, a package like this.
00:11:48
Speaker
And obviously, and i'm sure you've spent years working on this and many, many, many meetings. But i mean, would you mind just kind of taking us through a little bit on how the sausage is made in terms of scoping a facility like this, working within budgets, figuring out where the money is going to come from?
00:12:03
Speaker
Could you kind of just give us an idea the process you went through? Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think that the joke is, you know, you don't want to see the sausage being made. But, you know, I think in this case, you know, it's actually like has been a very great process.
00:12:14
Speaker
You know, we have worked really hard on this. ah You know, I think one of the estimates that was that we had talked about facilities at 30 different council meetings in some capacity over the last five years.
00:12:26
Speaker
So, you know, we've we've taken a really close look at this. You know, we we had some experts, you know, some consultants as well as stuff as staff on our team really worked on this. You know, what they did was they went out to other cities who had recently built municipal facilities, whether it be for maintenance or police departments.
00:12:43
Speaker
You know, the things that they built, I think it was the 10 years to try to get a good sense of what was working there. And, ah you know, if they had a chance to build it differently, what would they have done differently for their facility? And then incorporate those lessons into our building. So, you know, one example was that the they visited one one police facility that had a wall of windows that faced a street and they noticed that all the blinds were drawn.
00:13:05
Speaker
And when they asked, the police said, hey, you know, having open windows to the street, you know, is just not very safe for us. And we have some concerns about privacy and things of that nature. So the team said, oh, that's really interesting. So if you look at the design now.
00:13:17
Speaker
you know, where our our police station is, there's not going to be this wall of windows. You know, what they did was put in a skylight at the top to allow natural light to come in, but we're not going to have this safety problem. You know, and these were the kinds of things that they learned throughout um the site visits um and talking to those teams to sort of understand, you know, what was working well and what wasn't. They also took a really deep dive into what is the team doing now? So whether it's the police or public works,
00:13:40
Speaker
understanding what their needs are right now in terms of, you know, space and storage and that sort of thing ah to sort of understand what would be the best to go in the building. They showed, you know, plans along the way to the police station, to the police chief and all the way, all the officers as well. And then also the same with the maintenance team to get their feedback, you know, from the folks that would be, you know, using this space every day, you know, to understand what works and what doesn't.
00:14:04
Speaker
And, you know, anywhere you look in the schematics, you're going to see that there's this, You know, input from the team that that's really doing this work. So, you know, I think it's exciting, you know, and then we we went back and, you know, the decisions that they brought to the council were very focused on ah value engineering.
00:14:18
Speaker
You know, how can we build the best building for the cost that's most reasonable? You know, whether it's materials, whether it's attaching solar panels, um you know, whatever it might be. the council was really thoughtful about not having this be a more expensive project than we thought we needed to have while also still giving us the ability to provide these services at the level that I think Islanders really expect.
00:14:39
Speaker
And it wasn't always easy. There were some really hard decisions. And I think, you know, if we had unlimited money, we would have done things differently. Like I mentioned before, you know, we're going to continue to operate our city council meetings, you know, from the community center. We're not rebuilding that facility.
00:14:51
Speaker
um You know, and and that was a, you know, I think a decision, you know, I will give incredible credit to the council where the seven of us have very different um ideological views on a lot of things, but this was a project where, you know, we all came together. and I think, you know, from the onset understood that this had to be a plan that we were proud to put to the voters and thought made a lot of sense.
00:15:10
Speaker
ah You know, Councilmember Jacobson unfortunately passed away. you know, he's a construction expert and also a fiscal conservative. And all throughout the process, you know, whether it be design build, there were elements that he brought that I think really helped the process and allowed us to, you know, put forward this sort of final plan.
00:15:28
Speaker
So let's talk about kind of how this gets done from a cost perspective. You know, if yeah if we're going to do a remodel of our house, right, you kind of talk about, okay, this is what we want to do.
00:15:38
Speaker
You know, you get an idea of what it's going to cost and then you work within a budget. Most people do. And I'm assuming that you guys looked at this in a similar way, but how does that work? Right? Like, do you guys say, hey we want to spend a hundred million bucks. And when you kind of figure out what can go into it for that amount, or is it you go and identify all the needs and get a cost proposal and then, well, gosh, that's a lot, you know, we got trim some stuff out. Like how did that work in this context for this project?
00:16:07
Speaker
Yeah, you know, it's definitely more the the the latter than the former. You know, we we wanted to understand, you know, what the needs for the building would be. and So the team went out and and really did that work and sort of understood, you know, what would the future form of the building look like? What would the square footage? What would the coverage? What would that all look like? And then they came to us and we did make some really you know changes to to either you know change the the configuration of the building that saves some money or change some things in the building that were going to cost money that you know we're just not adding now. um you know There were some folks that really wanted us to put solar panels on the building. That is something that we're not doing. They will be wired because that is part of the code, but there will not be solar panels on the building.
00:16:45
Speaker
you know, there's sort of these examples, you know, i I think, you know, from the start, the team, both the staff and the council we were pretty focused on delivering a building that met the biggest needs.
00:16:57
Speaker
um You know, we did get some folks who wanted us to put a playground, you know, and add that to the plans or a performing arts center and add that to the plans. But I think the team was really focused on, hey, these are, you know, public works,
00:17:08
Speaker
Public safety, that's what this building is going to focused on. and And that's how we developed those plans to get to that number. And then we did make some decisions where we could to sort of cut it back. You know, I'd be concerned about saying, hey, you know, we're going to we're going to keep cutting, keep cutting, keep cutting, because there is a point where the where the building no longer delivers the value that you really get to, not just now, but, you know, in the next 50 years.
00:17:30
Speaker
um And that is a concern to me. you know, I don't want to have a building that in 10 years, hey, you know, look, actually, we built this too small. ah You know, we have to add X, Y and Z. that That's not a good outcome in my mind.
00:17:41
Speaker
How do you think about the need for planning for the future? um You know, obviously this is a you know, once in a generation type project, you'd hope. And so, you know, how do you balance the need for planning for future needs that may not be known today, you know, with the obvious cost implications of doing so?
Planning for Population Growth and Housing
00:18:01
Speaker
I think more specifically, I think one of the accusations from the no side is that, you know, this is a building that's much too large, um that perhaps, you know, it's it's planning for growth in headcount that may not materialize.
00:18:15
Speaker
How did you guys think about that? And how do you respond to that line of thinking? Yeah, a couple things here. know, the first is that, you know, if this building were built, you know, it opened tomorrow, would fit the needs of our team right now in terms of, you know, materials they need to store, you know, offices they need to have that sort of level.
00:18:32
Speaker
There is also some additional capacity built in with the expectation that there will be some growth on Mercer Isle in the you know, 50 to 70 years. you know I think that's that's something that we've we've obviously seen in the last 50 years, and you know I think we sort of expect we we'll continue to to to grow. you know The city, and we have financial management policies that were put in place a few years ago that that that make us be very careful and very thoughtful about adding new headcount across departments. That's just sort of ah something that i I would give the council and the staff a lot of credit where we're very careful
00:19:05
Speaker
about adding you new people. um you know Under state law, you know we're required to plan for and accommodate 1,239 new housing units and 2,000 new jobs on the island over the next 20 years.
00:19:19
Speaker
right that is That is state law. you know i've been I've been in elected politics for 20 years. ah you know And i want to I would want to make sure from from my policymakers that that they're being thoughtful about what the future looks like. you know there's I don't think anyone wants to build a building that's too big. um yeah I think we're looking to build something that that is that makes sense for right now and into the future.
00:19:38
Speaker
um The reality is that the buildings that we were in before did not meet the needs of the team then. um And you know I don't think we'd want to just rebuild the exact same square footage knowing that it wasn't working ah for the team and and was costing money in a lot of ways and you know had a lot of inefficiencies.
00:19:55
Speaker
So can you can you repeat those numbers again, the the growth numbers that you mentioned? Yeah, so it's 1,239 new housing units and 2,000 new jobs. So that is what the state is requiring us to plan for under future growth projections. So every so every city gets their allocation.
00:20:11
Speaker
um And this was ah the numbers that Mercer Island received a couple of years ago. How do you guys model for population growth? I mean, is it like, do you guys do your own modeling at the city level? or i mean Or is it this the data that the state kind of gives you is what's taken as as the growth model? How does that work?
00:20:27
Speaker
Yeah, so we we have to work towards what the state has given us. um You know, I think there's some some real questions as to how much of this, you know, growth would is going to materialize and when is it going to materialize.
00:20:38
Speaker
um You know, the state has made a lot of different changes as it comes to housing law, for example, in the last few years. And the council is working through all that now. That might be a ah separate podcast you might be interested in doing. Yeah, that's that's been popular in my and my other interviews. But we'll leave that to them. I bet.
00:20:53
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's obviously, like I don't have a crystal ball. It's hard to it's hard to you know, sort of guess these things. But, you know, I think Marshall Island is a very desirable place to live, you know, in the center of a region that's very desirable to live. If I knew exactly how many people would be living here in 20 years, we'd sort model that against the building. But it's obviously sort of hard to do that. Yeah. And so in my discussion with Mike Ciro, for those of you who are listening, heads the Know Committee and likely reference that discussion a few times from here. You know, he kind of contends that the island's a mature community and the population isn't going to grow a whole lot.
00:21:30
Speaker
And therefore, maybe city services, you know, aren't going to grow a whole lot. How do you respond to that line of thinking? I know I haven't heard exactly what Mike said about that, but I think if you look at you know even the last 10 years, right there are more apartment buildings that opened up in town center.
00:21:46
Speaker
um And if you look at the changes that the state has required us to make as it comes to zoning, as it comes to housing density, parking, these sorts of things, is that that they are designed to encourage um more development right and more folks joining the community.
00:22:01
Speaker
um that That's a reality. and Obviously, you said you were talking about this from other folks as well, so I'm not sure exactly what they said, but you know that is the reality of these things. As a policymaker, i am very in tune with these new requirements and sort of what they might mean for the future of the island.
00:22:15
Speaker
I think it's our responsibility to look at those and this is and say, hey, this is what the state is asking you to plan for and work against those numbers. um you know It's impossible to predict the future. you know and Ten years ago, i don't know if people would have predicted some of these new apartment buildings, for example.
00:22:30
Speaker
you right there's Like I said, I'm happy to do a different podcast about some of the zoning rules, but you you know there's some elements that I don't think work really well for Mercer Island in terms of the goal of having more housing that the state is giving us. I think that there's some real challenges there, but I do think that the state is serious about you know having more density, having more folks you know live in sort of the urban boundaries.
00:22:50
Speaker
So as a policymaker, I think we have a responsibility to, as we're planning a 50-year building, we have to make sure that that works in that framework. Yeah. Yeah. And you're right. I mean, as as it relates to the town center, you know, it's the market has found it economically viable to go vertical, which has increased housing density.
00:23:10
Speaker
And there's really not a lot, you know, the city council can do one way or the other about that. You know, that's that's market demand for for apartment housing. yeah I think it's personally likely appropriate to let the market kind of do what it's going to do.
00:23:22
Speaker
and we're you know And we're hearing this from you know from developers as well who you know ah hold property in mererile on Mercer Island you know in the town center and and want to build up. you you know that They obviously as developers want to see this to the highest and best use. So this this notion that, hey, we're we're freezing housing where we are and you know we should build a facility that you know caps the exact number of people we have now. I just don't think that that's in the best interest of long-term planning for the city.
00:23:44
Speaker
So if you had to, if you had to kind of give me a number, like percentage growth wise for the facility, either head count or space or however you want to play it. I mean, what, what would you approximate you guys plan for when, when building the building?
00:23:56
Speaker
um you know I have to go back and look a lot of the numbers. you know If you look at you know sort of the – you take – don't know, pick an element here. You could pick parking spaces, for example. right So we we looked at all the parking spaces that the police are currently using, um and then we sort of asked ourselves you know what what is the likelyness likely nature that they need you know more or fewer spots going forward.
00:24:19
Speaker
and So for example, we put in three different you know boat trailer spots, right? Because that is a service we intend to continue providing. And we think the right number is to have three covered spots for boat trailers, because we think that's what they're going to need going forward.
00:24:33
Speaker
there is There is potentially a universe where we we need a fourth, right? if you know If our mission on the water grows, whatever it might be, ah you know that that's a possibility. So we wanted it to build in some sort of flexibility you know in sort of the police area.
00:24:46
Speaker
It's those sort of decisions that we made and also, you know, covered parking, ah you know, for for police vehicles is is a big one as well. You know, in old facility and in the current trailers, they are parking outside. So that was something that was important to us. So it's sort of hard to say like, hey, this is what you had.
00:25:02
Speaker
And currently, you should just rebuild that in the new facility, right? Because if something isn't working and it's not the right setup, I don't think it's the right approach to just say, oh, we'll just replicate that. I think it's more, I think folks would want us to find these ways to increase the you know the useful life of these vehicles and improve safety for our officers.
00:25:20
Speaker
Okay. that's That's very helpful. Thanks for talking me through that. um so So back to the numbers for a second. So yeah the $103 million dollars sort of budget for this project, is that the final number or do you expect that to change you know up or down? and and I'm not necessarily talking about cost overruns during the construction of it.
00:25:39
Speaker
Those things happen. Hopefully they won't. But some of that is outside your control, like during COVID-19. um You know, everything shot up. But in terms of the design and sort of the package that's being considered now is 103 million. Kind of the is that the final number that you guys expect to take to to build a building?
00:25:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that you know that's what that's what the bonds are designed for. um you know And that that obviously has some cont continue contingency built into it. And okay um you know and then you know if if this bond passes, you know we're not going to we're not going to just spend all the money just because we can. you know if there's If there's funds that are that we don't need and we don't need the full amount, um that will just not be collected down the road. and This is bond.
00:26:17
Speaker
you know So obviously, interest rates, you know we can refinance you know down the road. We're also selling them at different tranches to ensure that you knowre we're selling them at the time that we actually need the resources. Okay, that's helpful. Another point that came up in my discussion with Mike was he contended that the city has...
00:26:34
Speaker
A bucket of $100 million, dollars roughly, sitting in various categories of funds. And that, you know, perhaps the city could have used some of that money that was already collected to offset the cost of the project from ah from a debt perspective with the goal of kind of keeping our taxes lower and still getting the project done.
00:26:53
Speaker
How do you think about that as a council when you're doing this? Did you think about doing that? And and why are the reasons that maybe you didn't do it? Could kind of just take us through that thought process? Yeah. so So we absolutely did do that. um You know, as it comes to the you know municipal facilities fund that I mentioned earlier that we used to purchase the Evergreen building. and You know, that was money that we've been saving ah the last few years and put know that we had to put to our facilities. So we certainly did.
00:27:18
Speaker
You know, that that 100, I think, you know, that that number that Mike cites, you know, I think our last projection in terms of our fund balance was was about 87 million. um And I want to clear that this isn't money that's sort of sitting around looking for a project. This is this is working capital, right? The city does a lot of very expensive infrastructure projects.
00:27:36
Speaker
um You know, we also receive property tax twice a year. So you can sort of imagine this as an up and down figure based on you know, going of accounts payable and revenue received. This is it's working capital for the for the city. This isn't money that's sort of looking for, ah you know, for a home. We are very careful about the way that we budget. There's a lot of requirements from the state as it comes to how we how we consider these numbers, how we do the budgeting.
00:27:58
Speaker
know, there's 19 different accounts. A lot of them are also restricted accounts. You know, so money that is paid into utilities fund can't be used to then go build a playground. You know, we have to spend the money for its intended purpose.
00:28:09
Speaker
It's just not the fact that we have this sort of extra money just lying around looking for projects. um You know, it's it's working capital for the hundreds of projects the city has going on at any given moment. Okay, that's helpful. So the the moral the story from your perspective is there's, you know, the money that was available to be used towards this project was used. And that's that $9 million dollars purchase.
00:28:29
Speaker
That sort of exhausted the the ability to be able to contribute funds to offset the the bond. Yeah, i you know i think we've been really careful with with our spending and in so many areas. And I think around the building has been the same.
00:28:40
Speaker
You know i think if we had an ah an opportunity to save some money in certain accounts and put them towards the the municipal, you know, fund, we would have done that. You know, we were very careful with the way we spend, you know, ARPA money, for example, and made sure that that was that we were using that to the you the greatest extent that we could. You know, I think, you know, all of us on the council are taxpayers as well.
00:28:57
Speaker
You know, we we also you know have a respect for that and want to show that we're we're only asking people to pay what, you know, we think is necessary for the building. But it we just don't, you know, if there were a large pile of money lying around, we obviously would put it towards the building.
00:29:09
Speaker
I'm curious, you know, kind of as we wrap up here, what's coming down the the pike in terms of additional spending or other projects?
Future Projects and Financial Planning
00:29:17
Speaker
You know, I was talking with Lisa Andrell about the the water project, you know, spent a but boatload of money on the water issue last year.
00:29:25
Speaker
Are there additional bonds that that you guys think, you know, may need to be raised in the future kind of how do we think about future tax increases or spending in the context of what you're asking us to to spend today?
00:29:37
Speaker
You know, i my hope my hope as a taxpayer is obviously you know we're not going to have a lot of bonds going forward. You know, Lisa has been really involved with you know some of the water challenges. She's been our representative the utility board before.
00:29:48
Speaker
You know, that that's an older system. And as we've learned, you know, has its real failures and sort of risks and weaknesses. Over the last couple of years, which I'm sure everyone remembers, when the city has to ask you not to use water, that's probably not the best solution. the best situation. ah You know, my hope would be that we, you know, we don't have to bring a water, you know, bond in the near future. It's, you know, it's potentially obviously something we'd have to consider, you know, the team is scoping that now, you know, understanding, know, what would the cost of that be? You know, our state legislators got us some money for that.
00:30:19
Speaker
And you know if we have to bring another bond for that, i obviously, we'll be very thoughtful about that and bring that to the voters as well and you know try to make that as small as possible. um you know As it comes to other projects, you know like I said, I think you you know this council is aligned that we're not going to be putting in you know a brand new city and a brand new city hall in terms of a brand new council building or courthouse or anything of that nature.
00:30:40
Speaker
um I think it's the you know just the the reality of of of where are all of our thoughts are around this. um I think people understand there's you know real tax fatigue, and this is something that we've raised you know with with King County as well as the state. you know It feels like there's sort of additional levy on every ballot.
00:30:57
Speaker
um and And that's tough. That's really hard. It makes it really hard to provide space to the city to sort of ask these questions that we need to ask in terms of getting the funding that we need to get. You know, but that being said, a lot of our facilities are old.
00:31:09
Speaker
um You know, like I said, the old city hall building was built in the 50s, you know, and they're just sort of in need of renovation. So we have to be thoughtful about that. Okay. So aside from potentially a ah water bond in the future, you from the city's perspective and in buildings wise, this is kind of a one and done as you see it from today.
00:31:27
Speaker
Yeah. And I think, you know, your questions before about sort of like, how do we you know think about this going forward in terms of population growth and all that? I mean, I think that's important for your listeners to recognize that that was something that we considered carefully with this project. and Like I said earlier, I think a bad outcome here would be, know, we build this building and 15 years from now, we realize that we just didn't build it large enough. And there's, you know, there's serious space constraints.
00:31:47
Speaker
you know, then we're we're going back. And obviously, it's gonna be harder to to make those changes down the road. I think we've been very thoughtful here about, you know, right sizing this building um for the for the life of the building. Yeah, and I can certainly appreciate the position you're in where, you know, you get one shot to do this, right. And, you know, you don't want to undershoot or overshoot.
00:32:07
Speaker
But, you know, certainly undershooting, you know, and having to spend more money later on um is probably not a place you want to be. So Dave, thanks for spending time. Anything that that I haven't mentioned? Yeah. You know, but if I can make if I could
Police Department Infrastructure Challenges
00:32:20
Speaker
add one other. Yeah, yeah please. Yeah. There's one other piece that I kind of want to get into, ah which has to do with the police department.
00:32:26
Speaker
You know, I think people have sort of asked, you know, why a lot of what we're talking about in this campaign is about the police department. I was hoping to just talk about that for a couple of minutes here. I would encourage anyone to listen to this to next time you see one of our police officers to to ask them, you know, sort of what's going well, you know, with their work with the city and, you know, what would sort of be ah something that keeps them here and what would be something that would you know encourage you encourage them to look elsewhere.
00:32:48
Speaker
And what you're going to hear universally is the facilities challenge. Our current facility cannot be. accredited WASPIC, which is the Washington Association of Sheriffs and Police Chiefs, just doesn't meet their standards.
00:33:00
Speaker
That doesn't mean that we can't continue to offer police services and can't continue to operate at the highest level you know and and follow other standards, but we cannot be an accredited agency. And that's a really big deal to officers. I have real concerns about retention and recruitment.
00:33:15
Speaker
You know, to get an officer who is, ah it costs about $100,000 from the time an officer is recruited, goes to the police academy, and then is able to operate by themselves as an officer.
00:33:25
Speaker
ah You know, and then there's lots of cities, including ours, that offer, you know, bonuses for folks to make lateral moves. So I'm really concerned about this from a retention perspective. And i and honestly, ah ah I really value that the police know our community really well.
00:33:40
Speaker
And I think a real downside here would be to have you know ah a significant and continual turnover with our police department. ah The police department has endorsed this. Well, you know Chief Holmes, who was our ah SRO for a long time, was a police chief for a long time. He sent a letter endorsing this bond um you know because he's he worked in the old facilities for a long time and sort of understands how important these things are.
00:34:02
Speaker
As of right now, our police are operating out of trailers. If folks had a chance to see them during national night out, you know they're they're really small. If they need have a staff meeting, that means that the break room is not available. ah The sergeants share an office, and if one of them needs to make a phone call, the other one has to step outside.
00:34:17
Speaker
ah There's real concerns about the safety of officers. It's not a secure building. You know, and we don't have a Sally port. and And then there's some other concerns as well. um And I think this is something that that's really important to them. And I think, you know, our community is one that really does value safety.
00:34:31
Speaker
ah Continually comes up on, you know, all the research that we do, all the surveys that we do. um And I think this is something that we really need to do to ensure that we have that, you know, high quality police force going forward. Yeah, you're you're absolutely right. I went and did a ride along with a couple of officers over the summer. And and yeah that was one of the things they mentioned is we don't even have a holding cell.
00:34:50
Speaker
I know. And, you know, you ask them when they talk with people they're trying to recruit. And the first question they get is, I thought you guys don't have a police station. Right. Very much portables in the back. Yeah. They're like, well, as of right now, but, you know, the council's working on this. So, you know, i think it's something that I think we need to deliver for the team. And I think that that translates into the you know sort of high quality policing that we've had for a long time. Well, and I'm glad you brought this up actually because it was on my list of questions here that I glossed over on accident. But the accreditation issue. So is that is that something that's recent? Like, what's the timing on that?
00:35:23
Speaker
And is it really just due to the nature of the building or like take us through that a little bit? Yeah, it's 100% due to the nature of the building. You know, we are our accreditation, I believe, expired last year. yeah i think it was I think it was 2024 or late 23.
00:35:37
Speaker
um And the can send you the link for this. But the the WASP standards are very clear in terms of what you need to have in the facility to be considered for accreditation. you know we We know we don't have that, so we're not going to ask for that accreditation. It's not worth the cost to have someone come out and tell us something that we have no we don't have.
00:35:54
Speaker
And that that is a big issue from from where im um you know from where I'm sitting. Talk to the officers. You look at one of the business cards, it says, you know in a credit agency, it's it's a big deal. Does that have other implications on insurance and and other aspects of the operation? um I would need to check you a little bit more on that.
00:36:11
Speaker
um We are continuing to to follow those standards, right? So if there were to be an issue of you know chain of custody or something, we're continuing to follow those standards. But I'm not sure in terms of that you know a long-term insurance impact. appreciate that. Well, Dave, ah thanks for taking the time. I've certainly learned a lot.
00:36:28
Speaker
We're lucky to have you on on the council and and appreciate you kind of going through the project with us and helping understand what the needs are. So I appreciate your time. Yeah, well, thank you, Ben. I really appreciate you taking the time to do all these interviews and you know really ah put a lot of information out there for people to to be informed voters on.
00:36:45
Speaker
Of course. So if people want information on the project, I assume it's on the the city website there. Yeah, there's the city let's talk page. And then there's misafe.org, which is the ah website for the the yes campaign for the bond. Okay, great.
00:37:00
Speaker
Well, thank you, Dave. I look forward to talking again here in the near future.