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E049: Kathy Hobbs
1.5k Plays5 years ago
Premonitions about her death plague a young girl who thinks she won’t live past her 16th birthday. When she makes 3 months past her birthday, were her visions true or was the timing of her death coincidence?
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Transcript
Emotional Struggles and Life Changes
00:00:00
Speaker
This week has been a hard week for me. As you all know I recently moved jobs, I'm still teaching but I'm in a new district. Switching not only my district but the grade level I teach as well and all of that during COVID finally broke me on Friday. I walked my car with tears literally streaming down my face and if you know me it takes a lot to make me cry over work but Friday I was crying.
00:00:22
Speaker
I think back to our lives in February. Here in the US, I was blissfully living my life unaware that the virus would completely turn my world upside down. Today, I had to run back to my car in the rain because I forgot my mask as I was walking into work. On Friday, my tears were a combination of new fears and stresses paired with anxiety that the profession I love may never look the same. That the world we live in may never look the same.
00:00:48
Speaker
I get so many questions from my students, questions I can't answer. And that's one of the saddest parts. No, I don't know how long we'll be required to wear masks to school. No, I don't know when you'll be able to eat lunch beside your best friend. No, I don't know when I can stop taking your temperature when you walk in the door.
Seeking Encouragement and Normalcy
00:01:05
Speaker
We have listeners from all over the world. So today I'm asking that you send us some encouragement. Tell us that your world is slowly returning to normal. That way we can feel like we have a light at the end of the tunnel we need to be looking for.
00:01:18
Speaker
I'm so thankful that through all of this, coffee and cases has remained a constant in my life. I know it looked weird for a bit with us recording separately, and it can still exchange sometimes as we try to squeeze time into our busy schedules to record together. But at least through all this, we have our coffee and cases family. I know Allison will agree with me when I say we're thankful for all of you.
Family Anecdotes and Precognitive Dreams
00:01:42
Speaker
One of my aunts claims that she has dreams of the future, dreams of who's pregnant, what the gender of the baby is, dreams of who will get engaged, and even dreams of death. So for my family, we're used to saying things like, well, if Sandy dreamed it, it will come true, while laughing it off as coincidence that every pregnancy, every engagement, and every death she's dreamed about comes true.
00:02:09
Speaker
When my little cousin started experiencing the same thing, I started thinking, maybe it isn't coincidence after all.
Scientific Perspectives on Precognition
00:02:17
Speaker
Could things like ESP or precognition run in families? In an article titled, is precognition real? Cornell University Lab releases powerful new evidence that the human mind can perceive the future. Quote, in a Reese paper titled, Filling the Future,
00:02:35
Speaker
Recently accepted for publication in the prestigious Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, Byrne presents some rather compelling evidence that in some cases, and with weak but highly statistical significant accuracy, many human beings can perceive the future, not just predict it based on the past.
00:02:55
Speaker
Another article called Neuroscientist says her belief in precognition is more than just a hunch states quote while most people dismiss these precognitions as coincidences more and more scientific evidence indicates precognition is actually a learned skill that we all may practice and hone rather than a power possessed by a few exceptional modern-day oracles.
00:03:19
Speaker
precognition is put into two bins, depending on if you're a scientist or not, she explains. But neither of the bins is accurate. Non-scientists tend to put precognition, even if they think it's real, in a bin of, wow, that's weird. Whereas most scientists think that culture belief is the stuff that that stuff is misguided.
Kathy Hobbs' Precognitive Experiences
00:03:39
Speaker
Most don't know how rigorous these studies are, most don't read the literature, and my least favorite are not even willing to take time to talk to someone who does research it." With articles like these, maybe what we first thought of as fantasy and passed off as comical is actually reality.
00:03:58
Speaker
And if it is reality, then is it not true to say that having ESP could be something that's hereditary? I mean, think about it. We pass on the likelihood of increased cancer risks, diabetes, mental illness. So why couldn't the ability to see the future run in families?
00:04:18
Speaker
Apparently, my family isn't the only family to pass down the ability to dream of the future. Our victim's mother often had dreams or feelings when things were going to happen, and she too passed that trait on to her daughter. When Kathy Hobbs started predicting her death, many laughed it off as her being anxious or vying for attention. But when Kathy was killed a few months after her predicted death, people began to wonder.
00:04:43
Speaker
Was it a coincidence that Kathy died only three months after she thought she would? Or was Kathy seeing the future? When the movie line, I see dead people, takes on an entirely new meaning because you're the dead person you keep seeing? What do you do? This is a story of Kathy Hobbs.
00:05:15
Speaker
So.
00:05:36
Speaker
Welcome to Coffee and Cases, where we like our coffee hot and our cases cold. My name is Allison Williams. And my name is Maggie Dameron. We will be telling stories each week in the hopes that someone out there with any information concerning the cases will take those tips to law enforcement.
00:05:52
Speaker
So justice and closure can be brought to these families. With each case, we encourage you to continue in the conversation on our Facebook page, Coffee and Cases podcast, because as we all know, conversation helps to keep the missing person in the public consciousness, helping keep their memories alive. So sit back, sip your coffee, and listen to what's brewing this week.
00:06:12
Speaker
It has been two weeks since we brought up our long-standing challenge. We brought it up last week. We're bringing it up this week, but I do want to take a moment to remind you of that challenge that we issued to you, SlooseHounds, a long time ago. We want to get to 150 ratings on Apple Podcasts, and we can only get there with help from you.
00:06:38
Speaker
So please help us by sharing about our podcast with at least two people. Then we'll be able to reach our goal just a little bit quicker. We have 135 ratings now, so we're only 15 ratings away. That 150 goal is finally in sight.
00:06:58
Speaker
If you haven't taken a second to rate our show, you still can. And if you have a few seconds longer, also leave us a few words about what you enjoy most about the podcast. We have listeners from all over the world. And this past week, we saw growing numbers still growing in Canada, the UK, Australia and New Zealand. So while this is a big ask, we know that you can do it.
00:07:23
Speaker
When we get to 150 ratings, we'll do a bonus episode. Just make sure that you follow us on social media, Coffee and Cases podcast on Facebook, or at Coffee Cases podcast on Instagram, or as always, listen in each week to know when that bonus episode will air. Now, Maggie, let's get into our show.
00:07:44
Speaker
Cathy Hobbs didn't have the greatest childhood. Like so many others, Cathy's parents divorced when she was only eight. Like most children at that age, Cathy was devastated that her parents were divorcing. You see, Sleuthhounds, Cathy was extremely close to her father, and the thought of not seeing him daily really bothered her. But she persevered and became stronger because of her parents' divorce. But to add to her heartbreak, Cathy's best friend actually ends up dying
00:08:12
Speaker
shortly after the divorce of a heart condition. Which I think very touched. Oh my gosh. I'm happy to be that young. Oh my goodness. So it's then that Kathy starts having visions. Visions that would make any parent feel uneasy or concerned. Visions that she wouldn't live past her 16th birthday. Oh my gosh. Okay, so side note, my little sleuth hound
00:08:39
Speaker
Now these aren't visions of her own life, but she started telling me about creepy dreams she was having about her dolls. And she was like, she goes, mom, we have to get rid of these dolls. And I was like, okay. And I was like, well, why don't we just put them in a box and we'll like put them in the attic. And she goes, no, they'll get out.
00:09:07
Speaker
and I was like yes it was I know so that's why it freaked me out slootowns in a previous episode I shared I think I'm trying to remember which episode I shared it in I can't remember I feel like it might have been Pamela Ray I don't know though but
00:09:24
Speaker
I had a doll that I thought was possessed by an evil spirit, but so she was like, no, they'll get out. And I was like, what are they doing? And she was like, they try to play pranks and pull my covers down. Oh, no. Yes. Yes. And I was like, OK. I said, well, if we can't put them in the attic, what if we just take them, you know, and we donate them? And she goes, no, then they'll hurt other kids.
00:09:50
Speaker
And I was like, okay. And I was like, well, we have to come up with a solution. And she was like, I have an idea. And I was like, what is it? And she goes, we need a hammer. And I was like, let's burn them. That is not my child at all. And Maggie can tell you she's like the kind of kid who's like, I'll offer her a lollipop. And she's
00:10:13
Speaker
Like, oh, but my friend Sarah's going to come over. So we need to make sure and save the lollipop for her. And now she's talking about hammers. So not quite a vision, but it's creepy. And when you were telling me about Kathy's visions and how it made her parents feel uneasy, I was thinking about that.
00:10:36
Speaker
Very similar to, y'all need to go back and listen to the doll story because it was really creepy. Oh my goodness. I will swear on a Bible. It was an evil spirit, I promise. So Kathy starts to withdraw from her friends and family and as a result, her family decides that it's probably best if they move to Las Vegas, hoping that a new environment would be the thing Kathy needed to kind of shake the premonitions away. Okay.
00:11:05
Speaker
And it actually does work for a little while. So Kathy makes some new friends that are in her apartment complex and they often spend their free time together, hanging out, like going to, there's like,
00:11:16
Speaker
supermarket slash I'm assuming little shopping center near where they live so they go there and her mom was delighted to see her opening back up and escape and escaping the confines of her room so it sounds like they thought maybe it was just depression I don't want to say just depression I do not mean it that way it sounds like they thought it was depression and not premonitions yeah and like that like you mentioned
00:11:41
Speaker
Yeah, and I go like there's an article that kind of talks about that. Like that's one of the things that people kind of think it was like she had like a sense of impending doom. And I kind of go into explaining that like towards the end. But yeah, there are some people that think that. So.
00:12:01
Speaker
Sadly, though, as her 16th birthday approaches in that year of 1987, she begins to retreat back into her room. I mean, which I know anybody kind of would if you think you're going to die. Right. So the premonitions and dreams have returned and Kathy is thrown back into that personal nightmare that she's been struggling with.
00:12:20
Speaker
So she stops hanging out with her friends. She stopped doing anything that could possibly put her in any type of harm's way because she's terrified that these nightmares that she's having is going to come true. Oh, that's so sad because I mean, she's 16. Like this is when she should be having fun with friends and going out and like all that stuff. And she's so scared that. I mean, that's I don't know. I feel bad.
00:12:50
Speaker
Yeah, and I feel like she should be like getting her driver's license and like all of that stuff. And she just treating back into her room and not really doing anything. But on the webpage called hashtag confirmed, Vivian, who's Kathy's mom said, quote, she got very teary eyed one night and told me, mom, I don't want to get any older. I want to be a little girl.
00:13:18
Speaker
And I told her, Kathy, we all grow up. It's not the easiest thing in the world to do, but we all do it. And she told me, I'm not going to. She didn't think she'd make it her 16th birthday, end quote. I don't know if as a mom, I would be more sad and scared or creeped out. I think I would be like, we need to go see like a professional.
00:13:46
Speaker
Yeah, because those aren't comments that the average person makes. Yeah, I would be like, we need to get some professional help. Now listen, I get that I don't wanna get any older. Yeah, I never wanted to grow up, ever. No, no. And so I get like, I get that, but saying like, I'm not going to and the other comments, I would be concerned.
00:14:12
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Me too. So as her birthday gets closer and closer, I can only imagine like the like the dread and like anxiety she felt. I mean, I get super anxious if I have like an important doctor's appointment or like I got my flu shot today and I was like so nervous just in the waiting area waiting to get a flu shot. So I can only imagine if it was something that extreme, like I would be super anxious.
00:14:41
Speaker
Or it's like, you know, if you get like surgery or childbirth, you start thinking about mortality. And I know that seems crazy, but you do. And so, I bet she was freaking out as it got closer.
00:15:02
Speaker
Yeah, like I've never had surgery until I had like the endometriosis removed and I was literally petrified that I would not wake up. Yeah.
00:15:14
Speaker
And so I can only imagine if I had dreams that I was gonna die. But finally that day comes, her 16th birthday, and I just picture her waking up on the day that she thinks she's gonna die. And I feel like she would be freaking out at the slightest noise. The slightest change to her norm would be devastating. I can picture her walking through her house, peeking around corners, waiting for somebody to grab her. But it comes and goes without the slightest incident.
00:15:43
Speaker
Kathy's sister actually reported to the article called the strange case of Kathy Hobbs that Kathy emerged from her room and said, quote, I made it mom, I made it. I'm 16, I did it, I'm alive. And I know that she must've just felt like an overwhelming sense of peace and relief to make it to that milestone. Yeah, I mean, she's saying it almost like it is some great achievement. Yeah, to live to be 16.
00:16:12
Speaker
So after her 16th birthday party passes, she starts to reemerge from her room again. So she starts hanging out with her friends. They take late night trips to the grocery store that's down the block from their apartment complex. They spend more time together as her life returns to this new type of normal. And so all is good in Kathy's world right now. Okay.
00:16:34
Speaker
That is until July 23rd. Kathy's been 16 for approximately three months and her luck is running low. Oh no.
00:16:45
Speaker
So that night, on the 23rd, she's reading a romance novel in her bedroom. All the time she'd spent alone had turned her into quite the reader, so her mom, Vivian, was not the least bit surprised when Kathy announces that she needs to head to the supermarket. Now, I do think it's odd that this is at 11 p.m. at night and her mom is just like, sure, go there. But the store was like two blocks from their house. I still wouldn't, I mean, I wouldn't let
00:17:15
Speaker
my little sleuth hound. I mean, even when she's 16, I'm gonna be like, uh. But see, I don't know. You know what's crazy?
00:17:27
Speaker
I don't know what I'd be more scared. Actually, I'm going to backtrack. I was going to say now kids will be like, I'm going to drive to McDonald's at 11 and you'd be like, okay. Versus like walking somewhere. But I mean, we're talking in the eighties though. So this is a different time period and I don't know which would be more dangerous. Driving at night or walking back in the eighties, two blocks.
00:17:56
Speaker
Yeah, because I keep thinking about all those creepy stories that you see on social media, where it's like, I got in my car at the Dollar General today, and there was a white Chevy Tahoe that chased me home and tried to rent me off the road. Yep. That kind of stuff freaks me out. Me too. And we have to leave so early. Most of the time, I know for me, Allison, I'm sure it's the same for you. It's still dark when I leave my house in the morning when I drive to work.
00:18:24
Speaker
And I'm not gonna lie, sometimes it's dark when I get home from work. So like, it really, like that kind of stuff freaks me out. But like my curfew was 11 p.m. when I was 16. Plus, aren't we in Vegas? Yeah, yeah. Okay, now listen, I would love to go to Vegas. I'd love to see all that stuff, but I don't think I'd let my 16 year old walk.
00:18:50
Speaker
a couple blocks by herself. Now again, I don't know what Vegas is, so I don't know if it's like a little area, looks like our picture of Vegas with all the lights and stuff, and then the rest of it is more like a
00:19:02
Speaker
normal neighborhood? I don't know. I'm not sure and I know like some places I read Vivian's mom said well one it's summer so maybe her curfews later and Vivian's mom said that she just kind of assumed she was going to go with her group of friends because she says to her mom um quote mom I'm going to the store to buy a book before I leave or give me a kiss before I go end quote. Okay.
00:19:31
Speaker
So Kathy's mom tells her that, you know, more than likely she's going to be awake when she gets back. Kathy says, well, I'll probably quote, well, I'll probably stop and talk to the kids. So you might be in bed when I get back in quote. So she, I guess kind of just assumed that she was going to be with her friends. Okay. So Vivian says that she gave her daughter a kiss, watched her walk out the door and had no idea that was the last time she would see her daughter alive.
00:20:00
Speaker
Hmm. So thinking that Kathy is sound asleep in her bed, Vivian is surprised when she's jolted awake at three o'clock in the morning. So if you remember- Three o'clock? Yes. Which is very late. But if you remember back in the introduction, I talked about how the ability to see the future could possibly be a trait that was passed down from her mom. Well, Vivian actually says that it's a vivid dream that tore her from her sleep.
00:20:31
Speaker
And it gets creepier. So in the article that I just cited above, the strange case of Kathy Hobbs, Vivian says, quote, I felt like I had been hit on the head and all of a sudden I got a very peaceful feeling and thought, well, it's all over now and I fell back asleep. End quote. So she's, if this is a dream, premonition,
00:20:52
Speaker
about her daughter, then Vivian almost feels like it's happening to her, right? Because she said I had been hit on the head and then I thought. Yeah, it's like she's experiencing it, kind of. It's symbolic of that dread that Kathy had been feeling.
00:21:12
Speaker
So I'll wait unless you see which one is correct. So when Vivian gets up that next morning, her daughter's bed is empty. She quickly calls police. And when Kathy is at home by the second day, police announced that she's probably been abducted. So not a runaway.
00:21:30
Speaker
Yeah, and I don't know like why that isn't like the conclusion right away like what are the steps to saying like they've been abducted versus they've been they are like a runaway because I know runaways if they're if they ran away before.
00:21:46
Speaker
right usually they say oh well she just ran away again but i never saw anywhere where kathy had ever ran away or talked about running away so i don't know like if two days is a long time to say she's been abducted or if that's like normal i wasn't close i feel like this i think why i'm so
00:22:08
Speaker
I guess, shocked by this is because I feel like in so many of the cases where there was clearly foul play, the police are always like, oh, there's a runaway, they'll come back, you know, when it's not. And then this case, it's like that wasn't even considered. It's like, oh, no, abducted. Yeah, and there's really not like any evidence up to day two that would say,
00:22:35
Speaker
that she was really abducted. I thought that it was just kind of like all the research I read, it was kind of like, well, day two, she's abducted.
00:22:44
Speaker
There's got to be something that we don't know that would make them come to that conclusion. Well, honestly, like a bunch of the research and I know we've talked about this kind of like the past couple episodes. A lot of the research that I read on this case was like the same thing just over and over again in different on different locations. So there's there wasn't a whole lot of places that had new information.
00:23:08
Speaker
unless I just admit something. I mean, maybe that's one of the pieces, you know how the police will keep like some information that they don't share with the public so that way they know if somebody is. Well, I will say, I don't know. Well, I will say that some people, okay, I will say that this is a different case because like, if you look up Kathy Hobbs, it says that it's solved, but there are a lot of people that don't agree with
00:23:38
Speaker
Oh, who they say did this to Kathy. Okay.
00:23:45
Speaker
So after Kathy's determined to have been abducted, her picture quickly starts circulating. It's given to the entire police department. The local media publicized her disappearance. Volunteers organized mobile search parties for her. They do grid searches of the city. So she does go missing in the city. The police were able to verify that Kathy did make it to the store and she did purchase a book at 11 17 pm because they interviewed
00:24:11
Speaker
like the lady that was working at the supermarket. So her last known location was at Desert Inn Road in the Maryland Parkway. And I thought 11, 17 p.m. is really the only for sure time that we know. That's it. I wonder if that's why they said abduction since she's right near like a parkway. Yeah, that's true because that would kind of point to like she did maybe get abducted because
00:24:41
Speaker
Now that you mention it, it's strange that we are two days into the case when she's pronounced abducted and we don't really have anybody coming forward with information because the area is highly traveled and it has high visibility, even at that late of night. Again, nobody comes forward with anything about seeing a girl being kidnapped off the street from a busy area. Hmm.
00:25:07
Speaker
And I know we've talked about this before too, but I feel like it's an important life lesson. If you see something bad happening, don't assume, Sleuthounds, that someone else is going to do the right thing because they probably aren't.
00:25:23
Speaker
So you need to call the police as quickly as possible because acting fast could save somebody's life. So don't assume somebody else watching is going to call 911 or is it going to step in because they probably are not because they're assuming the same thing you are.
00:25:39
Speaker
Do you know they say if you're ever in an emergency situation, you should never say someone called the police. You should literally like look at someone and point to them and say you in the striped shirt. Call the police because.
00:25:58
Speaker
then that person who you've just pointed to, um, feels like they have to do it versus, Oh, somebody else will call. I don't need to do it. Oh, you know, that actually does like, that's actually pretty help. Like a pretty piece of helpful advice. I feel like, cause I think it wasn't
00:26:18
Speaker
Like I read somewhere that like somebody was killed in like a group of people and people watched and nobody did it. I shared it. Yeah. I talked about it. It's a Kim Genovese case. Yep. 38 people watched it happen and didn't call the police. I just think that's extremely scary. So. I know. So life lesson here. Call the police.
00:26:40
Speaker
Yes. Especially in 2020 when we all have cell phones and if you're saying something happened, you can dial 911 from your phone. So from that 11-17 timeframe, we get nothing else that is substantial in Kathy's case until nine days later. Which I feel like would feel like an eternity if you're a parent.
00:27:04
Speaker
Oh yeah, I could not imagine it. Which, I mean, really though, that's kind of quick. Like in this... I mean, true. In the grand scheme of things.
00:27:14
Speaker
But it's actually a hiker named Rick who's searching for rock crystals out in the desert near Lake Mead that comes forward with a statement, and this quote is according to Unsolved Mysteries, quote, I was walking back to the car and I was probably 150 feet, 200 feet, from the road and was stopped by a very strong odor.
00:27:35
Speaker
I decided to see where it was coming from or what it was. And that's when I found Kathy's body. It was the most horrible thing I'd ever seen in my life. I had to sit down and gather my thoughts and make sure that what I was looking at was a real end quote. That's weird to me. Sit down and gather my thoughts. I mean, I guess I feel like I would either be vomiting, but like I actually maybe just go or called 911 right away.
00:28:06
Speaker
Maybe he's using hyperbole. Maybe he doesn't mean he really sat down and gathered his thoughts. Maybe he's just saying it took a second to register. Like he had to take a second. Yeah. Yeah. So the investigators actually find tire prints at the scene, which show that the vehicle, a vehicle pulled in, turned around and left.
00:28:29
Speaker
So I feel like that's a pretty big piece of like, evidence right there having tire tread marks. They also find two rocks near her body that were covered in blood. The blood was analyzed and it was determined that the blood stains matched her blood type. So the coroner determined that she died from repeated blows to the head, but she had sadly also been sexually assaulted. Oh no. So. And oh wait.
00:29:00
Speaker
Hold on, hold up. Blows to the head. Yes, I was gonna say, if you call into that. About getting hit in the head. Yeah, when I read that, I literally had chills down my arm because her mom literally woke up from a dream that she felt like she was being hit in the head.
00:29:25
Speaker
And then felt peace. In my mind, that's when Kathy passed on, is the sense of peace that she had. And especially if she's also being assaulted, sexually assaulted at the same time that all this is happening.
00:29:43
Speaker
Yeah, like saying that that's over. Yeah. So I'm wondering like if her mom like connected to Kathy on that horrible night and like experienced a piece of the horror that Kathy had to experience that night. Oh my goodness. If I'm telling you if they figure out a timeline and it happened at 3 a.m.
00:30:04
Speaker
Well, actually, isn't that what time our mom woke up? Yeah. And actually I did see that they ever said like the time of death. But I mean, you would assume it would be like around that time after 11, 17. Right. So yeah. And I was assuming it'd be pretty like quick after they've been like they abducted her. Mm hmm.
00:30:26
Speaker
But as Kathy's family mourn the death of their 16-year-old sister, daughter, and friend gone too soon, the police are still searching for her killer or killers because they're not sure yet if it's one person or multiple people. But they finally are left a promising message from a potential eyewitness. And this actually comes like...
00:30:46
Speaker
much later, but they're hoping that this could possibly be the break that they're looking for. So the eye witness describes a literal horrifying scene, like it makes me never want to leave my house. He said, quote, he grabbed this girl in the front of the store on desert in Maryland.
00:31:05
Speaker
This was a few months ago. Yes. So he knows the exact intersection. So he says, quote, this was a few months ago. I've been out of town for a few months and I broke this down because she was screaming. I pulled over in the car. She was a very young girl wearing a white jacket and pink pants and the guy's name he hollered to him. Pushed her in the car. His name was Robbie. End quote. So this was a few months ago. Excuse me, sir. You're just now calling the police. I wrote this down?
00:31:34
Speaker
like i understand you've been busy oh my goodness but that phone call to police that with that message literally took 30 seconds of your life oh my goodness this makes me so sad that people would not i i don't know value other well it's just like the kitty jenna v's case it's just like it was literally screaming he's killing me
00:32:01
Speaker
And people were like, oh, I thought it was a lover's quarrel. Yeah. Whatever. Like she's literally disappeared from in front of a supermarket. Like this dude can take two minutes out of his life to say, hey, you need to call 911. I just saw this girl get abducted in front of your store. Yeah. If she's screaming and she gets thrown into a vehicle,
00:32:28
Speaker
I mean, and I heard somebody's name. I'd be like, 911, what's your emergency? Yes, I just saw a crime happen. And you witnessed the whole thing, caller. And you noticed she had on a jacket and pink pants, but you didn't think to write down that Scar's license plate number? Oh, true. I didn't even notice that.
00:32:53
Speaker
Yeah. I just can't get over the fact it took him several months to call in. Like, I don't know, we don't get it. Oh, out of the way, I wrote this down. Didn't that happen in another case? Didn't that happen in another case and they did get like a partial license plate number? Yeah, but it was one of your cases. Yeah, and I don't remember now which one it was. They only got like three. The first few, yeah. Was it Yuba County? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was the Yuba County Five.
00:33:22
Speaker
Yeah. So from the eyewitness description, we can deduce that at least two people abducted Kathy because one guy is pushing her in as the other guy screams for Robbie.
00:33:36
Speaker
So while the caller was able to correctly identify the area from which Kathy was taken, why did he wait so long to call the police? And why despite police from the police and Kathy's family, has this man never come forward to give more details about the abduction that he clearly saw take place? Yeah, great question. It's like all those people that call like the America's most wanted and then the police are like, please call us back. And then they never call back. Like I don't understand.
00:34:05
Speaker
I don't either. Listen, if people can call in and vote for television shows like American Idol or things like that, why can't they call the police to report a crime to save somebody's life? I really think it's just a testament to society these days, honestly.
00:34:21
Speaker
So all of our long-term listeners know that my brother died in a car accident when I was in high school and I had to watch my mom struggle to make it through the day because simple things would remind her of my brother. Like my mom kept
00:34:40
Speaker
So if you're from Eastern Kentucky, one of our favorite snacks is macaroni and tomato juice. So like just elbow macaroni cooked with tomato juice. And she actually made that
00:34:53
Speaker
for my brother the day that he, like, it was on the stove waiting for him the day that he was in the fire accident. And she kept that on our stove for weeks before she threw it away. So I can only imagine how Vivian's mom's heart, or how Vivian's heart, Kathy's mom, must have shattered when only a few weeks after Kathy's death, she stumbled upon letters Kathy had left behind in regards to her own death that she'd wrote to family
00:35:24
Speaker
So the letters were only dated one month before, like her birthday, so it hadn't been very long. The one to Vivian read, quote, dear mother, in the advent of my death, you shall get this letter. I hope you live happily and I don't want you or anybody else to dwell on my death. I love you all very dearly. You were good to me and nobody else could have been a better mother.
00:35:50
Speaker
Keep me alive in your heart and don't ever forget me. Love always. Kathy." End quote. You're like, I would never forget you. I know. And like, just this case is so haunting to me because I feel like she had like just trying to live day to day feeling like you were going to die. And then like,
00:36:15
Speaker
even from her parents' standpoint, wondering if there could have been more that she could have done to act upon the stuff that she was telling you, you know?
00:36:24
Speaker
So like you did say, there are some who say that Kathy was suffering from feelings of impending doom. So with her parents' divorce, her close friend dying from heart disease, Kathy just didn't have a very happy childhood. So is it possible she was suffering from depression and or anxiety and that triggered these feelings of impending doom? And that's like one of the side effects of impending doom is feeling or believing that you're having premonitions of your own death, even when you're really not.
00:36:51
Speaker
I mean, that could be true, but at the same time, it's still creepy that it did happen and by, you know, at least two people. So it's not like she had anything to do with it.
00:37:03
Speaker
right so does it mean that she's suffering from poor mental health and her death just happened to be like a tragic coincidence like she was in the wrong place at the wrong time or is it really like she was predicting her death i mean she died at the age of 16 in three months so i mean i mean yeah i kind of feel like she saw like had a premonition legit
00:37:30
Speaker
Well like I mean we like we've taught I mean in the diet law pass I said that it was probably like the Yeti that killed the hikers so y'all know that I mean I truly believe that
00:37:49
Speaker
like that kind of stuff exists and I mean like I do think that a lot of the times people be like oh I knew that this was gonna happen because like again and I hate to keep talking about myself but like I think back to like when my brother was in the military like I always had this sense that he was gonna die young
00:38:10
Speaker
And then when he did, I was like, this is weird. But then when I think about it, I feel like that fear was rational because that was right in the heat of 9-11. So he was going to war. He was in the military. So I think that's why I always felt that sense of dread in him. It wasn't anything like I just had a normal childhood and was feeling it. It was, I think, related to something else, which I think some people say is
00:38:40
Speaker
what was happening with Kathy. According to Unsolved Mysteries, authorities actually linked her murder to a serial killer who, guess what, had three names. Oh my gosh, always. They always do. Michael Lee Lockhart, he was from Toledo, Ohio, and it says, quote, in May 1987, Lockhart stole a blue 1986
00:39:06
Speaker
Toyota Silica and kept it until November of 1987. Authorities believe that during this time, he abducted and murdered Kathy. Blue fibers found at the crime scene matched fibers from the stolen vehicle. Credit card receipts also placed him in Las Vegas at the time of the murder. Finally, when investigators questioned him about Kathy's death, he virtually confessed to the crime."
00:39:31
Speaker
let me tell you my skepticism. Number one, his name is not Robbie. Right. And the guy who had other details, the eyewitness clearly said he heard the name Robbie. Unless maybe Michael was like the person driving. Could be. Yeah, he could have had somebody there with him. But I have a feeling that serial killers don't usually work with a partner. True.
00:39:57
Speaker
Also, if there are blue fibers found at the crime scene, then couldn't it be from another Toyota Celica? I mean, it doesn't have to be from this one. Right. And what the heck does that mean? He virtually confessed to the crime. Like, did he do it through a Zoom call?
00:40:17
Speaker
How did he do that? I mean, and how do you, you can't, I mean, either you confess or you don't, you don't like practically confess. He sort of confessed. Yeah. He sort of said he did it. I mean, and I, I don't know. I feel like if you're a serial killer, you would either deny it. I feel like they either deny, you know, to the very end or they
00:40:44
Speaker
like tell all the details about it, you know? I don't know. I don't know if I believe it. Yeah. And he actually, there's a lot of people that are, that do not believe that he killed her because he was already on death row. Like, in fact, the state of Nevada did not even like try him for this case because he was already sentenced for other murders. And like,
00:41:09
Speaker
I think he like was executed in Texas. I think I read somewhere. So like a lot of people think that the confession was false. I mean, they think that he basically would have confessed to just about anything cause he's on death row. And so many people say that her case is still unsolved because they don't believe that he really killed her. They just think he was maybe trying to prolong like his death sentence or just was confessing because maybe he was just obviously a mean person. So. Right.
00:41:38
Speaker
Yeah. I don't think that that's, that's not enough of an explanation or proof for me. Yeah. Same. Me neither. And I really don't think that we're ever going to know the truth because I think since law enforcement have said that it's Lockhart, like I don't think they're going to continue any type of like investigation or investigation. Yeah. So, and that's it. That's the end of the Cathy case. That's really all we have. Gosh.
00:42:08
Speaker
So, solution, but I don't believe it's a solution. Right. Resolution, I should say. Resolution, but I don't believe it's resolution. Yeah, we'll put resolution in quotation marks. Right. Kathy's last words to her mom were words of love and encouragement. Quote, I don't want you or anyone else to dwell on my death, she said. Nobody else could have been a better mother, end quote.
00:42:34
Speaker
Even as she worried over her own death, she thought of others. Through the nightmares and the sleepless nights, fearing the worst, she still wanted her mom to know how much she meant to her. There are times when I think we all would like to predict the future. There are moments where we all want to know what the next day will bring. But as we learn from Kathy, that ability comes with a price. To know the good is to also know the bad. To see the good
00:43:02
Speaker
is to also see the bad. Perhaps the Lightning Thief said it best, quote, knowing too much of your future is never a good thing, end quote. Despite Kathy's struggles with criminitions, she tried her best to live as much as she could. And I think that's the lesson Kathy would want us to learn. We need to live. Especially in these uncertain times, we need to remember that each day is a gift that we need to enjoy.
00:43:30
Speaker
Soak up the sun, dance in the rain, read by the campfire, watch the snow fall. Really live in the moments we're given. Kathy asked her mom to never forget her. And honestly, after hearing her story, I don't think any of us will. We will always remember you, Kathy.
00:43:49
Speaker
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00:44:19
Speaker
Stay together. Stay safe. We'll see you next week.