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A Return to the New World Order!
31 Plays1 year ago
Josh and M revisit episode 13, and finally give a potted history to the real Bavarian Illuminati...
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Transcript
Illuminati Revisited: Myths and Reality
00:00:00
Speaker
Today we revisit an early episode, unlucky number 13, about the Illuminati and the New World Order. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Sorry, revisit? I don't think we've ever actually talked about the Illuminati, who definitely do not exist, and the whole New World Order stuff. Well, that's the kind of nonsense that John Rappaport and Paul Joseph Watson Twitter on about all the time. Yeah, I know you don't often remember old episodes, or even recent ones, but we definitely have talked about the Illuminati more than once.
00:00:29
Speaker
Look, Josh, we have never discussed these topics. As an associate professor at a prestigious university, I would never dine to even suggest the existence of a shadowy organization controlling the everyday affairs of humankind. An organization which might, some have suggested, give away luxury yachts to researchers who poo-poo the existence of such groups. Your Honour, I present Exhibit A to the Court. Objection? Overall, counsel, you may continue. And by you, I mean me.
00:00:57
Speaker
My Lord, I present you a recording from July 2014. So, to confirm, that's two meat packs, three lots of diapers, extra large, four metres of tinfoil, one broccoli, and eight paper plates slightly spoiled? That's correct. Well, send that out later this afternoon. Is there anything else I can do for you today? No, thanks. That's all I need. Well, thank you for your order, man. Please shop with us again.
00:01:21
Speaker
That was exposing the seedy underbelly and dark secrets of the New World Order. I put it to the court that this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Dr. Dantas was present on the day of the recording and does indeed know of prior work by themself on the topic of the Illuminati and the New World Order. This is most troubling Mr. Addison. Dr. Dantas, how do you, sorry, how do I plead? Not guilty. I was meant to say that.
00:01:47
Speaker
Oh, then guilty. Indeed, Mr. Edison, the evidence does indeed demonstrate your guilt through and through. I will now pass sentence. You. Yes. Must now record yet another episode of the podcast's Guide to the Conspiracy. May God have mercy on us all. God damn you dirty apes. The podcast's Guide to the Conspiracy featuring Josh Edison and Em Dinteth.
Podcasting Challenges: Distance and Recording
00:02:19
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the podcaster's guide to the conspiracy. It is me, Josh Addison, alive and well in Auckland, New Zealand. And so actually, where are you right at the moment? I'm in the mysterious capital of the country. Some know it as Wellington, others know it as
00:02:37
Speaker
a name that cannot be uttered on a podcast. So there you are in Wellington, New Zealand. We have Dr. M. R. X. Dentith. So even though I'm back from overseas and it's feasible given that we're in the same country to record like in the same room like we used to many years ago, we can't because
00:02:58
Speaker
A, now we're in different cities, and also B, I no longer have easy access to an automobile on account of that flooding business. Oh, nonsense. It was just a minor bit of rainfall. Nothing bad actually happened. I mean, houses weren't falling, houses were falling off cliffs. I mean, that definitely didn't happen.
00:03:19
Speaker
No, obviously not,
Illuminati Origins and Ideals
00:03:21
Speaker
but I will say... And nobody drowned. Except for those people who did, yes. And there hasn't been any major damage to any equipment, apart from your distant computer, a flooded house, a whole bunch of other things, but we don't need to worry about those things or talk about those things on this podcast. They're not salient to the kind of discussions we have on the podcast as Guide to the Conspiracy,
00:03:45
Speaker
Unless, of course, you're listening to a bonus episode, at which point they become very salient indeed. Yes, so if you want to know what I've been up to for the past three weeks, listen to the bonus episode. We'll have a bit of a ramble about that. But for now, all you need to know is A, I cannot easily get to Em's house
00:04:02
Speaker
for recording in person, which is irrelevant because M isn't actually in Auckland at the moment. And also... But, Josh, you were very close to the airport. You could have jumped on a flight and been down here tonight to record in person. Well, I mean... Getting on a plane, flying down to Wellington, recording a podcast and then immediately going home on another flight. Aside from the fact that I then have to get to the airport and also pay for flights.
00:04:30
Speaker
with money that I currently need to pay for things like that. We've got we've got we've got patron monies for life. Oh, that's a good point. Yeah, we can be really, really good. Go wild and go, yeah, just going to fly down to Wellington to do a one off recording and fly straight back. That would be a responsible use of our funds, I'm sure. I mean, what else are we going to spend the funds on luxury yachts? Well, we actually give them the weather conditions in Auckland. No, it's going to make it actually a good investment.
00:05:00
Speaker
So anyway, as I say, we'll talk more about this in the bonus episode, but we have an actual, an actual episode to record since I'm back and Ian's no longer forced to come up with filler episodes in my absence. And it's time for a back to the conspiracy episode. And we're revisiting one of the first, one of the first, it's not actually the first dozen, it's one of the first baker's dozen of episodes, episode 13. About unlucky at the sun.
00:05:26
Speaker
We have a chime, don't we? We do. We're going to put it somewhere about here. Buckle up. We're going back to the conspiracy.
00:05:41
Speaker
Yes, that's another thing I should point out. Because my computer that I do the editing on got ruined, it's also the computer in which I stored all the source stuff, like all the stings and things. So I'm going to have to get copies of all of those again off of you at some time. And then I'll be able to play something as charming and fanciful as the sting you just heard. But for now, I can just get on with the episode, which is about the Illuminati and the New World Order, who we talked about first in July 2014. 2014 was a long time ago.
00:06:11
Speaker
All my, it was, it was, the year was nine years ago. This episode is almost nine years ago. Getting disturbingly close to that. Disturbing me so. And so back then we were sort of, we were sort of doing a bit of the, the conspiracy theory greatest hits a little bit. We were sort of like, you know, everything was new and fanciful. And we thought, well, we can, we can just talk, you know, what's, what's the most obvious sort of thing to talk about when you're a conspiracy theory podcast and right near the top of the list.
00:06:39
Speaker
But these two, the Illuminati and the New World Order, who are sort of synonymous sometimes and other times not, and it all gets a little bit confused, and we'll get into some of that later. But maybe we should start with a bit of history. So who are the Illuminati? Well, I mean, that's a good question. Why can't the Illuminati?
00:06:54
Speaker
Which other Illuminati? Which we go back to 2040. Well, I can't tell you who's in the Illuminati, because if I told you, I'd have to kill every single listener of the podcast. That could take a few hours, perhaps. Actually, there are people who live overseas. I'm also joked about flying you down to Wellington. We don't quite have enough money to fly me all around the world to kill all of our listeners. I mean, 36 people, it's quite a lot of money we consider. They're scattered throughout the entire globe.
00:07:23
Speaker
Maybe we need to somehow arrange to have all of our listeners in one place for just such a contingency. Some kind of podcaster's guide to the conspiracy theory conference where we bring all the people into one room.
00:07:37
Speaker
And then I reveal who belongs in the Illuminati and then kill everyone with maybe a chainsaw. But perhaps we've said too much. Back to the topic at hand, Illuminati, where'd they come from? So the point I was going to make was back in 2014, when we did episode 13, we went, well, you know, we're probably to vote an episode to the actual history of the real Illuminati at some point.
00:07:58
Speaker
So we'll just skip over the thing and just go, the Illuminati were a real organization operated in Bavaria. But let's talk about what people say about them now. Turns out we actually never did that episode on the history of the Illuminati. So we should probably talk briefly about who the Illuminati were, because what's interesting about Illuminati conspiracy theories is that they are touching on a shadowy organization. Organization? Organization.
00:08:27
Speaker
Yes, that's a word. A shadowy organization, which might also be an organization, that did exist in Bavaria in the 18th century. And this is where I end up going, I'm not entirely sure how to pronounce the name of the person who founded it. I believe it's Adam Vashop.
00:08:46
Speaker
But I may be even making that completely wrong. So, Enerwelchaupt was born on the 6th of February 1748 in Ingolstadt in the electorate of Bavaria, which is now part of Germany, but in those days was simply part of Bavaria.
00:09:03
Speaker
He was brought up as a rationalist and enrolled at the University of Ingolstadt where he graduated in 1768 at the age of 20 with a doctorate of law, and he then stayed on and became a professor of law. After Pope Clement suppressed the Jesuit order in 1773, Hochholz became the professor of canon or church law, a position which formerly had only been held by Jesuits, but because Pope Clement had quite usefully
00:09:32
Speaker
got rid of the Jesuits suddenly thus helped had the ability to be a canon law or church law specialist. And one year later, once he's in his professorial robes working at the University of Engelstolt, then he becomes the leader of the Illuminati of Bavaria.
00:09:51
Speaker
Yes, so he went through a few names. Apparently, originally it was called the Bundt der Perfectibilisten, or Covenant of Perfectibility. Well, yes, that is a bit of a mouthful, even for German. He went through a few other names and then eventually settled on Illuminatin orden, the order of Illuminati. Illuminati, of course, being Latin for, you know, like, illuminated or enlightened in this particular sense. So it was sort of a
00:10:20
Speaker
quote-unquote secret society in
Suppression and Survival of the Illuminati
00:10:23
Speaker
the mold of the Freemasons, I gather he didn't quite
00:10:29
Speaker
agree with the Freemasons. Partly he thought they were too expensive, but it was a case of the whole bender from Futurama thing. I'd find I'm going to build my own Freemasons with blackjack and hoggers. Only this time he actually forgot the blackjack and hoggers. He set up a secret society that was like the Freemasons, but not
00:10:52
Speaker
We're not 100% sure what the purpose was. Some say it was to promote like rationalism or it was opposed to superstition and religious influence over public life and what have you. I see one quote that says of their statutes that says, the order of the day is to put an end to the machinations of the purveyors of injustice, to control them
00:11:20
Speaker
without dominating them, which I'm not quite sure what the distinction is there. But basically leaning on people to be better human beings without actually expressly ordering them to be better human beings. So it's using guile to make people
00:11:40
Speaker
better. And yeah, research on this is kind of ambiguous as to exactly what the purpose of the Illuminati was, in part, because when the Illuminati order was suppressed and disbanded, actually very little of it remained other than just footnotes in history. So some people say that yes, as a rationalist, Vice-Help was interested in promoting rationalism.
00:12:03
Speaker
Others say no, the real thing that was kind of the driving force of the Illuminati of Bavaria was to promote freedom and equality. They were against corrupt government, they were kind of against monarchies, what they wanted was a kind of
00:12:18
Speaker
democratic egalitarian order of men, I'm assuming it was mostly men, maybe women would have been allowed in, it's not entirely clear, but definitely men being able to live their own lives without being controlled by a kind of officious state, such as the monarchy of Bavaria at that time.
00:12:38
Speaker
And yeah, the thing which made the Illuminati interesting from a conspiratorial point of view is that they infiltrated other organizations and spied on people to bring information back on the notion that, yeah, you would change institutions from the inside. So Watch Help joined the Masons of Munich
00:13:02
Speaker
and he wants the masons of Munich to become rationalists, egalitarians. The masons are not particularly keen on this because the masons are not actually into freedom and equality at that particular point in time. They quite like the idea of a state and a monarch and believing in God, and Wachaupe is trying to convert them from the inside and they're not really enjoying it.
00:13:25
Speaker
Yeah, the impression I got was that he started up his alternative to the Freemasons and didn't really get a lot of takers, was having trouble recruiting people. So then decided, OK, well, I'll join the Masons then. And then once I sort of have access to their networks, maybe I can convince a bunch of them that they actually agree with me and they should come in and join my secret society instead of
00:13:49
Speaker
their secret society. From what I read, there was a lot of internal conflict. As you say, the goals went 100% clear, and some people disagreed with what the goals should be or what the methods should be or what have you. I don't know, for instance,
00:14:09
Speaker
if they ever actually achieved anything. I do know what they what they did achieve was pissing off the Bavarian government. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I do know that they eventually the Bavarian government banned a bunch of six secret societies, including the Illuminati and the Freemasons, encouraged by the Catholic Church, apparently at that time.
00:14:33
Speaker
And as far as the Illuminati goes, the Bavarian Illuminati, that seemed to be it for them. As an organization, it was just gone. Weiss helped himself, stuck around, and he lost his position at Ingolstadt, but he fled Bavaria and wrote some books in exile. He went to Gotha.
00:14:55
Speaker
and I, which I assume is, yeah, sexberg, got there, yeah. There's another part of what is now Germany. So he wrote some books, he wrote a complete history of the persecutions of the Illuminati in Bavaria, a picture of aluminism, an apology for the Illuminati, and an improved system of aluminism.
00:15:13
Speaker
bit of a David Icke feel, constantly refining his... Yeah, I get the impression if Adam had been on the talk circuit it would be just the same talk with new examples year after year after year.
00:15:29
Speaker
Like that may have been it for the Bavarian Illuminati, the first organization to refer themselves to themselves as Illuminati. But obviously, the Illuminati is still something people talk about as existing today. For a number of reasons, you get various societies calling themselves Illuminati, some of whom seem to have been influenced by the original Illuminati, and then others who claim
00:15:56
Speaker
that they are actually some sort of continuation of the original Illuminati. And I'm sure some of whom claim actually the Illuminati has existed for thousands of years or something. Well, I mean, it's like the Loomisonic rights that claim they're descended from the Templars. We go, oh no, we're the definite descendants of the Templars and people are going,
00:16:16
Speaker
I mean, we know you're not because we know when the Templar order was disbanded. We know what happened to the Templars who staged Templars and the ones who went on to the Knights Hospitalia and the like. And we also know that your order was only invented 50 years ago. So we're fairly sure there's discontinuity between those events and these events. But yeah, many people make the claim, oh, no, we are
00:16:38
Speaker
We've been the secret Illuminati the entire time. We've just been operating behind the scenes.
Modern Myths: Illuminati and New World Order
00:16:43
Speaker
Now, the thing is, there are kind of two varieties of conspiracy theory about the Illuminati's continuation after being banned after 10 years of operation in Bavaria.
00:16:54
Speaker
you get the interesting and probably unwarranted claims, such as that Vashalpe actually didn't die in Gotha in 1830, but actually went to North America and became the person that we now know as George Washington, which seems to be entirely based on the fact that portraits of Vashalpe and portraits of Washington look eerily similar
00:17:19
Speaker
but also turns out that portraits of almost any middle-aged man from that period of time all look the same because they're wearing the same wig, they're wearing the same clothes, and they're posing in the same way. But then you get the other interesting conspiracy theory. This is the one which actually seems somewhat plausible, in that it's taken to be the case that members of the Illuminati from Bavaria, some of them fled to France.
00:17:47
Speaker
and were involved in the first glorious French revolution, which promoted the ideals of freedom and equality. And it's quite possible that people who were devoted to the Illuminati cause in Bavaria ended up in France amongst the bourgeoisie, who had shared ideals with them, and they were involved in fomenting revolution in France, or at least
00:18:11
Speaker
setting the seeds for that revolution. So that seems like a plausible link to go, look, their ideas weren't successful as the Illuminati per se, but maybe their ideals did translate on to other political movements in Europe. And what's interesting about that is that the original Illuminati
00:18:34
Speaker
as far as we know the original ones, we're an organization whose sort of goals and aims appear to be basically the exact opposite of what the Illuminati has taken to be today. Conspiracy theories around the Illuminati are all around them being secretly controlling the world and
00:18:53
Speaker
furthering their own nefarious agenda, whereas the original ones were all about freedom and equality and being freed from the shackles of overreaching governments. Whereas now, they're basically synonymous with the New World Order.
00:19:12
Speaker
Now, I do have to say, if you go back, if you search through our archives and go back and listen to episode 13 from July 2014, I have to bring up the fact that I had a running gag that I was quite proud of throughout this episode, pretending to confuse the New World Order with, of course, the banned New World Order, so that the New World Order was formed.
00:19:37
Speaker
in the early 1980s by the remaining members of Joy Division after the suicide of their lead singer Ian Curtis and then you straight manned me and said you're talking absolute nonsense and I go oh I have no idea what you mean and so on and so forth but I can't be bothered keeping that going for this entire episode but just to show you it was very funny, very clever. Well so I'm actually now in a city where there's a
00:20:01
Speaker
a famous art mural to Ian Curtis just up the road from where I'm staying. Ooh, suspicious. Is it?
00:20:10
Speaker
Yes. Yes. So New World Order, also people talk about the One World Government, the two seem to be synonymous. Pretty much so. Pretty much synonymous in them. It's taken that the One World Government is an ideal of the New World Order, the idea that will be controlled by the United Nations, will be controlled by the Trilateral Commission.
00:20:35
Speaker
will be controlled by whatever the government is in the left behind books run by a Romanian who turns out to be the Antichrist. It's the idea that what the New World Order wants is central control over everything, with only the political elites who are truly free deciding how we shall live our lives in slavery and servitude.
00:20:57
Speaker
Now, one point that I wasn't clear on at the time, and I'm still not clear on now, is whether the New World Order is a thing that exists now, sort of secretly running the world from behind the scenes, or whether it's a thing that sort of proponents of the New World Order are working to bring about now. And I suspect it's both depending on which conspiracy theorists you listen to.
00:21:22
Speaker
Take, for example, Alex Jones. Sometimes when Alex Jones talks about New World Order, he talks about it as already existing and completely controlling the American political system. And other times when he's talking about how great Donald Trump is, or how we should get behind Ron DeSantis as president for the next presidential run,
00:21:44
Speaker
It seems to indicate that actually the New World Order is only about to establish a One World Government, and there are brave politicians in America who are able to resist it. So yeah, it is pretty much both. Sometimes people say the One World Government is already running, and we are already not free.
00:22:04
Speaker
And sometimes, again, well, look, we're only six weeks away from the One World government taking control. That's why you need to buy my food supplement and my male vitality pills right now. And so then you come to these conspiracy theories themselves and they it's pretty much anything you want to name, really. The New World Order Illuminati One World government are both sort of vague enough
00:22:30
Speaker
And to the extent that there are specific things about them wide ranging enough that they can be blamed for pretty much anything bad that happens. They can be folded into, you know, the Illuminati basically were part of the Freemasons at one point. So if you want to bring in the Freemasons, you can say they're all part of it as well. They're all connected to each other. Globalization.
00:22:52
Speaker
is one that comes up a lot, which I assume is brought up as a sort of sinister thing. Globalizing means bringing everything together under a one world government, under a new world order or what have you. So it's not as straightforward as other
00:23:11
Speaker
conspiracy theories like moon landings being faked or JFK being assassinated or whatever, where here is the conspiracy theory. It's more an element, I guess, an ingredient that can be taken to be the motivation as to why politicians are engaging in kinds of policies. So you take, for example, the discussion about the single market in the EU. The European politicians will extol the economic
00:23:39
Speaker
powerhouse that makes a single market work. But for people who are skeptical of it, it's all part of a plot to bring all of the control of small European countries under the control of big European powers, whether that be the technocrats in Brussels, or the German economists, or the French government,
00:24:03
Speaker
And so they'll say it's all part of a motivation, but what the New World Order is doing is they're encouraging people towards this push to globalization so they will get control, even though it looks like people are electing to globalize independently. It's all part of a sinister agenda. And
Globalization and Conspiracy: Orchestrated or Natural?
00:24:23
Speaker
of course,
00:24:23
Speaker
In many respects, globalization has been very bad for many countries around the world when we see the way that we now get all of our cheap goods from third world countries where people are not paid an adequate wage for the work that they do. So there are very, very bad aspects to globalization.
00:24:43
Speaker
But the question is, is it being orchestrated by one kind of central power or a shadowy cabal operating in the background? Or is it part of a push by government school? We need more cooperation. We need more interoperability between systems to make our individual economies work. And we sometimes just pretend that
00:25:05
Speaker
The downsides to that are things that happen overseas, far away. We can't see those things. Nobody cares. Don't look at the label on the back of your clothes.
00:25:15
Speaker
Now, this sort of aspect of it brought up an interesting point that we discussed way back in episode 13, which is, do you have to know that you're part of a conspiracy to be part of a conspiracy? Because the Illuminati slash New World Order slash One World Government plots are said to be so big and so wide ranging that it seems plausible a person could be working to further the goals of your New World Orders or your Illuminati's
00:25:45
Speaker
without even knowing it because they're part of this big system that's controlled from the top. Does that mean they're part of a conspiracy and is a more general point?
00:25:55
Speaker
does every conspirator, does every member of a conspiracy have to actually know that they're part of a conspiracy? And the answer to that is found in the article that Martin Orr and I wrote for Social Epistemology, Secrecy and Conspiracy, where we talk about the notion that when it comes to the organizational structure of conspiratorial works, sometimes you get monolithic conspiracies where there's just
00:26:23
Speaker
one organization at the top giving direct orders to everyone beneath it and essentially you might have some patsies in there so you know the janitors who work in the twin towers who are who've been told don't go into this particular room when the controlled explosives are being put in technically they're part of the conspiracy but they have no idea of what their role is
00:26:47
Speaker
And you get diverse conspiracies where you've got lots of different organizations that have to interact to some degree for the conspiracy to work. And you could have entire organizations which are playing bit parts in a giant conspiracy.
00:27:03
Speaker
But all they're doing is kind of processing paperwork unbeknownst to them what that paperwork actually is going to mean long term. So yeah, you could be part of a massive conspiracy without ever actually knowing that you're involved in it, let alone how crucial your role is for the success of that conspiracy. Now, I'm assuming you and Martin had not written that paper.
00:27:26
Speaker
at the time we first recorded this episode July 2014. I'm assuming they came out in 2016, so I think we were writing it in 2014 because we, Marty and I met at the conference in 2014 that was held at the
00:27:48
Speaker
Oh yeah, the University of Miami, which was run by Joe Usinski, or was that 2016? I have completely lost track of time. Actually it is 2016. So at any rate, the point is, it's good that we revisited this topic, because now we have an answer to a question that we asked almost nine years ago. Yep, I've answered it myself. Excellent.
00:28:10
Speaker
So the other thing that's a bit more fun to talk about is all the imagery stuff and the talk of secret hidden symbols
Symbols and Beliefs: Illuminati's Cultural Impact
00:28:20
Speaker
and what have you. So obviously the Illuminati symbol, we've all seen it, the eye within the pyramid, the triangle shape. Actually, that's one thing I didn't look up. Is that a symbol of the original Bavarian Illuminati? Or did it come along later? Or is it something that's been around longer, but did the Illuminati just
00:28:37
Speaker
co-opted it. So the eye in the pyramid, the eye of Providence, has been around for a long time. And I believe actually it's been used in Masonic symbology for a long time as well. So I can imagine the Illuminati borrowing or appropriating it for their own use. But I actually don't know whether it's actually part of the standard imagery that they used at the time. And that might be because we don't really know that much about the original Illuminati.
00:29:06
Speaker
other than we know they were suppressed and we know that Bosch help then went off to write a whole bunch of books apologizing or trying to explain what his real motives were. I'm actually not aware of there being any discussion of symbols used by them at the time but as a secret society which is trying to avoid surveillance by the government I imagine they probably tried to avoid having symbols entirely.
00:29:32
Speaker
I think so, yeah. But nevertheless, any time that symbol shows up, it's either pounced upon as being something Masonic or something Illuminati-ish. At the time we recorded back in 2014, there had been a bit of a stir about Lady Gaga, who in her earlier videos, I think it was the poker face one first.
00:29:51
Speaker
had a thing where she kept putting one hand over one of her eyes, and people jumped on that as saying that was meant to be. There was a reference to the Illuminati covering her eyes, so only a single eye is showing, like the eye of Providence. I remember the time I did a quick look about
00:30:08
Speaker
sort of Illuminati symbols and relations theories not have you and came up with one theory that the Illuminati, the death of Brandon Lee on the set of The Crow was actually, had been orchestrated, was no accident and had been orchestrated by the Illuminati because the Crow was misusing. We've got the film Dragon, we know what really killed Brandon Lee. Family curse. It was the family curse, yes. But what's the family curse?
00:30:33
Speaker
caused by Illuminati brethren cursing the Lee family. It's entirely possible we can rule out nothing. So there's a bit of wackiness, and this I think led me to what I still maintain is the cleverest thing I've ever said on this podcast.
00:30:51
Speaker
which is the line of reasoning that goes, the Illuminati symbol, the Eye of Providence, is entirely strange and weird and bizarre, and can be thought of as essentially in its simplest form, a circle within a triangle, circle
00:31:09
Speaker
being sometimes simply a geometric shape, but also symbolizing nothing or the number zero, zero, which of course in certain contexts, in particular tennis, but in others is referred to as love, thereby making the symbol of the Illuminati a bizarre love triangle, proving that I was right all along and that the New World Order literally is New Order.
00:31:36
Speaker
I risk my case. I feel that you say the smartest thing I've said about previous episodes quite a lot. That's because everything I've said is the smartest thing I've ever said. That may well be true. That was the smartest thing I've ever said. And what else? So last time we talked a bit about the Bible stuff, because when you get your sort of your, what was the series left behind, the Left Behind series, and anything that's to do with sort of
00:32:03
Speaker
fiction, sort of Christian themed fiction about the Antichrist coming to power and taking over the world. The first thing they always do is set up a one world government. And I was never quite sure what that had to do with it. Why is it a characteristic of the Antichrist that they set up some sort of a new world order? And why is it something that Christians of a certain stripe appear to be very afraid of?
00:32:31
Speaker
So I'm going to engage in a bit of folk sociology of Christianity here, because the kind of people who are interested in the tribulation, the idea there's going to be this period of between seven to a thousand years of control of the world by the Antichrist.
00:32:51
Speaker
They tend to be Pentecostal, they tend to be Protestant, they don't tend to be Catholic. They tend to think that the idea of there being a centralized religious authority, and the thing about the one world government you get in these kind of tribulation periods is it's not just a one world government, it's a mandated world religion at the same time. They take it that that's a perversion of what Christianity is meant to be.
00:33:17
Speaker
So it's the idea of getting everyone to believe the same thing, and also to pervert that belief. And that's why there's so again a one-world government, because it's going to be run by the Antichrist, and that's going to mean it's really not Christian, even though ostensibly the Antichrist will present themselves as the second coming of the Christian Messiah.
00:33:39
Speaker
So, yeah, they're against the One World Government because it's going to be controlled by the Antichrist and they're going to make people believe the wrong kind of thing. It's an interesting theory, but I do feel like we probably need to go and watch the Omega Code.
00:33:53
Speaker
several times again, just to be sure. Well, I would say watch the Omega Code 2. The first one I don't think stands up to rewatch, but Omega Code 2 with Michael York saying, bring it on to God. Great film. And it does swap Casper Van Dyne for Michael Bynes, so.
00:34:11
Speaker
I think that's got to be a positive move. So that's pretty much what we talked about last time. That sort of caught you up. But as we say, it was almost nine years ago.
QAnon and Anti-Globalism: New Faces of Old Theories
00:34:22
Speaker
What's happened in the interim? I think the main thing that's happened in the interim is QAnon, because QAnon now seems to have become the umbrella
00:34:28
Speaker
term under which all of these sorts of conspiracies get lumped. Well, I mean, basically, ever since people started talking about the Deep State, the Deep State has become synonymous with an organisation that works towards a one world government. And that's fascinating because when you think about sitcoms like Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister, with the entire premise of Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister,
00:34:54
Speaker
is that there is an eternal civil service which is unelected, which is persuading ministers or prime ministers to follow what the civil service wants rather than what the electorate wants or what the party wants.
00:35:10
Speaker
And so yes, minister and yes, prime minister is a comedy about the idea that you might think politicians have a lot of power, but the civil service is always there, undercutting politicians at the last minute, doing what they think is right. And so for a long period of time, when people talked about the deep state,
00:35:28
Speaker
They were talking about the civil service and the idea that politicians are nowhere near as powerful as people think they are. The civil service is the real powerhouse of any political economy. But in recent years, the Deep State has gone from simply being the unelected bureaucrats who are resistant to change to the idea that actually the Deep State is controlled by some deeper power
00:35:57
Speaker
sometimes it's rich technocratic billionaires, other times it's evil satanists, in that they control the politicians. It's not that they pervert what politicians want to do, they're the ones who are actually the puppet masters who make politicians act the way that they do. And so yeah QAnon has kind of tapped into this new way of talking about the deep state and has become
00:36:25
Speaker
in some respects, the most popular version of that kind of perversion of the deep state mythos. Because all of the evil, the Satanists, the kidnapping children and drinking their adrenochrome, and the adrenochrome, at least in these braces. And I mean, you can go as far as you David Icke, shapeshifting lizard people or what have you, but it all
00:36:52
Speaker
It all used to fall under the sorts of things people would talk about when they talk about the New World Order, and now when people talk about the New World Order, they tend to talk about it in the context of QAnon. It really just does seem to be a new label. It's interesting that it started off as its own thing, but they ended up becoming the label for the umbrella term
00:37:14
Speaker
for the sort of conspiracy theory that's been around forever, it seems. And also, I wanted to go back, we talked about globalists and globalism before. That term, it may just be me, it may just be a sort of, what do you call it, confirmation bias or recency bias or something that I'm happening to notice it more, but it seems like talk of globalism and globalists has increased since we last talked about this stuff. And especially in the sense that the term globalist
00:37:42
Speaker
is often used as a euphemism for Jew. And the talk of globalism is actually often anti-Semitic conspiracy theories with a slightly more palatable name. Do you feel that's changed in the interim, or is it just, am I just noticing it more? I mean, I'm going to agree that talk of globalism does seem to have increased as a kind of political rhetoric. Something here about people like Viktor Orban in Hungary, Donald Trump
00:38:12
Speaker
in the US, various UK prime ministers in the UK, because I could name a UK prime minister right now. It may not be the UK prime minister by the time this episode is released. And yeah, there's been, as you've got more isolationist, more nationalistic government, so we're going to go it alone, we're proud, we don't need outside help. They've started talking about global threats, the idea of globalization being a bad thing.
00:38:41
Speaker
which when you think of the conservative government in the UK which was really really keen on globalization under prime ministers like Thatcher and then really against globalization under PMs like Johnson and Liz Truss and possibly current prime minister Recy Sunak but once again you may not be convinced by the time this episode comes out so yeah talk of globalization
00:39:09
Speaker
has definitely become a political rhetoric. And certainly there are certain people who are associating globalization with particular global financiers. So George Soros with the Open Society Foundation. So, you know, an American Hungarian Jew who also spends a lot of money promoting liberty and open democracy around the world. And people are
00:39:38
Speaker
tying that into the notion of there being this large-scale Jewish conspiracy. So I don't think it's necessarily globalization is synonymous with anti-Semitism. I think there are lots of people who are anti-globalization without having any anti-Semitic aspects to it. But there are also people who are quite deliberately picking which figures they take it up promoting.
00:40:04
Speaker
globalization, and it is curious that they either are Jewish, like who George Soros is, or they're Jewish, like the claim that Jeff Bezos, who isn't a Jew, actually is still kind of Jewish.
00:40:22
Speaker
in his Outlook and worldview. Now, Josh just has to go off to do some things. I'm putting a clap in here for an edit point. I agree completely with what you just said. Good, good. So that's kind of the end of the episode. To be honest, the most interesting thing I learned when writing this was that the spell checker in Google Docs knows the word adrenochrome and corrected these things. So there you go. That's the Illuminati for you.
00:40:52
Speaker
It's interesting to look, I think the origins of the Illuminati are probably the most interesting thing about them these days because they've just sort of become just one of those terms, one of those cliches really of conspiracy theories. But to know that they originally started as something kind of the opposite of what they're supposed to be now, and indeed only really lasted about not much more than 10 years before
00:41:18
Speaker
and never really achieved much either. Yeah, for an organisation which didn't last for long and had, as far as we can tell, no real long-standing effect on Bavarian society, they have persisted. And I mean, part of them persisted because of the criticism against what they did.
00:41:38
Speaker
So even though we don't know much about the Bavarian Illuminati themselves, there were strident critics of that particular kind of rationalistic, freedom-orientated, hippie-like view expressed by the Conservatives of the day, and they're the ones who kind of kept the spectre of the Illuminati alive, because it wasn't the left who feared the Illuminati, it was the right, it was the Conservatives.
00:42:07
Speaker
who were concerned that there were liberalizing movements in the secret societies they lived in that actually might be trying to improve the lot of common people. And that, that could not be tolerated. People need to know what their place is, Josh. They shouldn't have rights. They shouldn't be able to demand things. They should live in the muck where they belong. It's possible also that he just picked a cool name.
00:42:35
Speaker
and maybe people like the sound of Illuminati. It's got that Latin-ness to it, sounds a bit classy, bit clever. It is good he settled on that name rather than sticking with the original. Perfectabilistan, yes, I can't remember. I can't imagine we would have stuck around nearly as much if we were Perfectabilists.
00:42:56
Speaker
No, but not as nice a mouth feel. So that is the end of this episode. But of course, there is still to come a bonus episode for our patrons. And in that episode, I'll give a bit of a bit of what I did on my holiday report, which culminates in the extreme Auckland weather at the moment, which is like we'll have it has has birthed a couple more conspiracy theories. So then we can talk about them as well. And a little bit of newsy stuff on top of that.
00:43:23
Speaker
because why not? News happens. We've got an earthquake in Turkey, we've got news about what may have happened to inmate 17, and an interesting tit-bit which isn't really conspiratorial but is just fascinating about Congressman George Santos, whose fabulism has taken a rather bizarre turn.
00:43:45
Speaker
So if you'd like to know about that, you'd better go off and become one of our patrons by going to thetrain.com and searching for the podcaster's guide to the conspiracy. And if you already are one of our patrons, then just sit back and relax. Put your feet up. Do whatever it is that you do, because whatever it is. Because you know that you're paying for Josh's airfare next week. Exactly. And I thank you. I thank you greatly.
00:44:09
Speaker
So, I think that's everything. I'm back, more or less. We'll see what happens next week when Cyclone... What's the new Cyclone called? I can't even remember. I think it's Gabriel? Or is it Gabriel? Something like that. Whatever the new Cyclone is that's meant to be hitting Auckland, either this weekend or early next week, makes its presence felt, that could be an extra spanner in the works on top of the various spanners
00:44:36
Speaker
that we think I'll be with at the moment. But until then, we'll just have to sit tight and see. So I really can't do anything more. I literally cannot do anything more at this time than say goodbye. Lassie's attitude. Boys are a big fan of mango lassies. I think it's a lassie. Lassie. Yeah. Yeah. Mango lassie. Well, I'll have one of them as well. But good. Give it attitude. Lassitude. Lassitude. Lassitude. Yes.
00:45:06
Speaker
Anyway, let's record a bonus episode. Ciao!
00:45:36
Speaker
And remember, nothing is real, everything is permitted, but conditions apply.