Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
EP 4: Gareth Dunsmore: Leading teams across cultures at Nissan, McLaren, and VinFast
50 Plays1 month ago
In this week's episode John Stech, host of The Auto Ethnographer, has a conversation with Gareth Dunsmore. With an appreciation of different cultures going back to his childhood, thanks to his family, Gareth talks about his experiences working overseas with Nissan and VinFast. He also speaks about McLaren and how to convey its Britishness around the world.
Gareth started his marketing career with Nissan Motors UK but had an opportunity earlier in his career to move to Nissan’s regional office based in Paris. He spent 11 years living in France and Switzerland working with Nissan marketing departments across the AMIEO Region (Africa, Middle East, India, Europe, and Oceania).
He returned to England with a new challenge and adventure, working as Chief Marketing Officer at McLaren, maker of renowned supercars. Here he faced an unexpected challenge – working with British colleagues following his stint abroad. Gareth discusses that challenge as well as how to market a brand like McLaren to consumers outside of the UK.
After McLaren, Gareth set out on a big adventure, taking on the role of Deputy CEO of Sales & Marketing at VinFast Automotive, an upstart electric vehicle producer based near Hanoi, Vietnam. This would be the most daunting challenge yet but Gareth found the way to succeed and to gain respect from his Vietnamese colleagues, who had predisposed notions about Westerners.
Gareth has since returned to Nissan Motors where he is Managing Director for e-Micro Mobility Nissan for the AMIEO region. This includes the Silence Eco Urban Mobility range.
Visit The Auto Ethnographer's homepage for more information about the podcast series at https://www.auto-ethnographer.com
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
How do you upward manage a boss of different of a different country, a different culture? And equally then, how do you lead teams of different cultures in different countries?
Introduction to the Autoethnographer Podcast
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Autoethnographer. I'm John Steck, your host on this journey. We travel the globe to bring you stories about culture and the global automotive industry.
00:00:19
Speaker
Fasten your seatbelt and let's get started.
Meet Gareth Bunsmore: Marketing Leader
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Autoethnographer. I have a fantastic guest lined up for a great conversation.
00:00:30
Speaker
My guest today is Gareth Bunsmore. He's a highly experienced marketing leader based in the UK. He's had a lot of experience in the UK, in Europe, USA, as well as Vietnam.
00:00:43
Speaker
He started his career with Nissan in the early 2000s, where he's held a number of roles with increasing responsibility up to the vice president level and covering ah marketing and brand across the AMEO region, which is Africa, Middle East, India, Europe, and Oceania in the Nissan world.
00:01:05
Speaker
He took a two-year detour from Nissan to hold a couple of very interesting and exciting positions. One of them was as McLaren's chief marketing officer, which I'm sure was quite exciting, and I hope we talk a little bit about that today.
00:01:19
Speaker
And then the deputy CEO for global sales and marketing at VinFast, the ambitious EV maker based in Vietnam. Since then, he's returned back to Nissan,
00:01:31
Speaker
where Gareth is now the managing director for e-micromobility Nissan in the AMAO region. This includes also the silence, go urban mobility range, a range of electric vehicles in micro mobility segment.
00:01:46
Speaker
So Gareth, welcome to the auto ethnographer. I'm glad you were able to join us today. Thank you, John. Real pleasure to be here. Yeah, excited to get stuck in and see where the conversation goes. Did I miss anything or is there anything that you wanted to fill in from from the brief bio introduction?
00:02:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think over 20 years in the car industry now, and and a lot of that has been spent outside the
Gareth's Multicultural Upbringing
00:02:08
Speaker
UK. So whilst I talk with a British accent, um my mum's South African, my dad was born in Egypt, tonight and I've spent, I think, about a third of my life now traveling and living abroad, either as a kid or an adult. So this particular podcast and topic is is fascinating to me from ah from a personal level as well as a professional level.
00:02:27
Speaker
It sounds like you had also a very multicultural type of background, similar to myself, and and that's a a passion when you understand that. but Your first foreign assignment after after starting with Nissan UK and and working through various positions in the UK was to move to France.
00:02:46
Speaker
And I understand that, of course, that there's always been a lot of ribbing going across the English Channel. um How was it for you to relocate France and and to work with a brand with Nissan in a different environment, in a different country?
00:03:03
Speaker
think, first of all, I really, really wanted to work abroad. You know, I'd grown up in places as far flung as Lesotho was mentioned in the news recently in the US as a country that no one knows. but you having influences as far-flung as Lesotho, the Netherlands, the USA as ah as a child, for sort of following my dad around where his work had taken him. I always wanted that experience as an adult.
00:03:25
Speaker
um So in sort of decisions, career discussions at Nissan, knowing it's a global company, I'd always sort of put my name forward to try and take one of these
Cultural Challenges at Nissan
00:03:34
Speaker
adventures. I was lucky enough to be asked to move over to to Paris to lead the European digital team to sort of launch a website across all of Europe.
00:03:43
Speaker
now i probably went in with a fair bit of arrogance as young guy, um one of the youngest people sort of to go out on ah on one of these foreign service assignments. Perhaps not necessarily because of anything special, more just because it's right place, right time. you You take your opportunity and have this mindset of of never say no um to opportunities. So got that chance to move across. thought it would be, if not easy, I thought it would be a lot easier than it was.
00:04:10
Speaker
I guess there's two things that spring to mind most. the First of all, there was the culture internally in Nissan. Whilst there is a ah global culture and every corporation has one, there's definitely a competition, I think, between what's the most influential culture? Is it the culture of the city you're in or the culture of the company that you're working for?
00:04:30
Speaker
And I'd say at the same time, I was thrown into working with Parisian-based digital agency and an IT infrastructure team based between Sunderland and India.
00:04:43
Speaker
um And when you're trying to then gather the cultures, even in the English language, the cultures of Indian-based teams in Satyam in India, ah Satyam company in in Sunderland and in India, and together with obviously the Japanese and and the the Parisians, it's some it's a complex one to get your head around. and Everything, think the working environment was in English, and but the language no was not English, if that makes sense.
00:05:08
Speaker
um People were speaking to each other in a way that they just weren't understanding each other. And I guess the thing I felt I became pretty quickly was a translator to try and knit together these different cultures, these different environments of working practices to see how we could we could build a successful digital platform and and roll it out across across Europe. Yeah.
00:05:31
Speaker
And then probably the the next step, that they were the sort of two biggest first things I noticed. The next step was then, wow, I had to go and take this website built in Paris. I had to go and tell the the Russian team that they were going to implement it and delete their one that they built locally.
00:05:45
Speaker
and then into Germany and then into Spain. And you you start to sort of see that actually it's nothing to do with just understanding the Parisian culture and the and the French working culture. It's actually trying to understand the Russians, the Spanish, and yeah, of course, the Brits that
Balancing Global and Local in Marketing
00:06:00
Speaker
I'd left. And to try and get the Brits to listen to, as a small island as we are, to to listen to anyone is is a tough one as well. So um lots of warring things going on in my brain at that time, as I said, 2009.
00:06:12
Speaker
two thousand and and nine so pretty pretty young back then in terms of career within Nissan. um And sort of lots of stumbles along the way to to get through it. But on the other side, probably the first time that I really realized that, wow, I want to work in a global company. I want to be part of a global company because whilst it's a challenge, whilst it's really tough, if you just sort of close your mouth, open your ears, you suddenly realize how amazing these different cultures are and the different ways people work and you can learn off them all.
00:06:44
Speaker
So a a bit of a baptism of fire, but certainly one I enjoyed. and I went out for a year project, extended into 11 year stint in in Paris and Switzerland and and back to Paris.
00:06:56
Speaker
um yeah Amazing, amazing 11 years, I guess, it for myself, but also think for my family and and to have my kids be able to grow up in on the continent, to be able to learn different languages and really see through the eyes of of someone who's French or German or Swiss. It was was great for them too.
00:07:14
Speaker
It really helps an individual to grow, right? Whether it's it's yourself or the members of your family, you know, it changes children for sure when they go to international schools and they they have a completely different perception of the school and and of the world. i had the same experience with with my children.
00:07:33
Speaker
You said something interesting earlier about the impact of a corporate culture or is it the city culture or the country culture? So how... Maybe it's the wrong word to use, but how pervasive is the Nissan culture? What what would you say is the Nissan culture? Is it a really Japanese rooted culture or is it a company that almost has completely morphed into an international organization?
00:08:01
Speaker
the first thing about Nissan that I always loved and in some ways it's why I came back is this a there's a huge level of respect and I think that does stem from being a Japanese company but it's it' sort of in a positive way tempered or or evolved into respect not just for for people's opinions and and diversity of thought but also their cultures, um their their genders, their cultures, their the diversity in many ways and that's one of the things that is you know true no matter whether I speak to someone who's left Nissan or all people that are still there, there's a real love and passion for the brand built out of that respect people have for each other. um On the other side, look, we're we're a global company and we need to to fight within a really tough industry to be successful. So there's certainly a commitment culture that um that is really powerful. um And that, ah again, from the from the leadership through most of my time at Nissan and
00:08:55
Speaker
under Carlos Ghosn, certainly that commitment culture built Nissan into the part of the biggest car company on the planet. And we wouldn't have got to that level without a level of ah drive and force and and commitment to to push through barriers and to overcome the odds. And ah hopefully that'll stand us in good stead over the coming months and years to to fight back in a really challenging challenging time for the company, perhaps, but also in the car industry, perhaps more at large with all the change and the investment needed in electrification, in autonomous drive, At the same time, there's perhaps very, very diverse requirements from different cultures and different customers around the world.
00:09:31
Speaker
It's a tough one to be successful in as a car company at the moment. So yeah, I think those two bits I think stand out most for me. It's definitely trying times overall for the auto industry right now. I think it's impossible to open up any any kind of automotive news site and and not see challenge regardless of which region you're you're looking at.
00:09:53
Speaker
So you also mentioned something about launching the website across the different markets, whether it was in in Germany or Russia, while you were based in, I think, was it France at the time?
00:10:06
Speaker
How adapted was it ah to the market? Because clearly those teams... built something that they thought was targeted at Russian customers or at German customers? Was was it something that was really different? A lot of discussions?
00:10:20
Speaker
Did do you have to adapt what you put had built in in order to somehow mesh up with those local cultures and that the local customer needs? there's ah There's a really interesting balance when you're trying to globalize something to keep this level of local relevance.
00:10:35
Speaker
But at the same time, make the right decisions to not over invest and not waste money. If you think of some of the markets that we needed to localize into, the return on that investment of localizing just from a pure language perspective is clearly there.
00:10:50
Speaker
But from a cultural perspective, from a messaging perspective, that's a bit more of a judgment call because you're never going to get the return if a market's only selling 2, 3, 4, 5,000 vehicles a year versus 100,000 units a year. And that's the sort of breadth of diversity if you look at Europe with the size and and the and the different scales of the economy and the number of people in in countries.
00:11:13
Speaker
um One of the things I try to pride myself on is is the work ethic to get out and go and visit these places, um to go and really listen and speak to their needs, their requirements, so that you can best make that judgment call. And ah being empathetic, really listening, having that that level of emotional intelligence to engage with people doesn't mean you then always do what they say you want, what they actually are requesting them to do. You have to then still make that business judgment call, but at least then When you're making it, you're making it eyes open and you're and you're not just doing it because that's the job is to roll it out as quick as possible and and to do it one way with one clear brand message.
00:11:50
Speaker
I think you compare back at the time somewhere like Russia, the the scale of the economy in 2009, definitely warranted a more local approach.
00:12:01
Speaker
That said, um there are many other markets that we launched that we just had to make that tougher decision to say, no, this is the this is the structure, this is the site, this is the messaging, and you're have to cope with it. Will it really impact sales as much as as the local team think? Probably not.
00:12:15
Speaker
Could you have done better? Could you have done more? Probably yes, but it has to deliver the return. So I think that way that balance of of cultural relevance, but simplicity and cost comes into comes into play. i fully fully understand that balance. It's it's definitely a tightrope that you have to walk on a continuous basis.
Pandemic Challenges and UK Return
00:12:34
Speaker
So you were out for, you said, 11 years ah from the UK, which is a pretty substantial time to to be away from your home country.
00:12:45
Speaker
It's not that far away from from France or from from Switzerland. But how how was the return home? My understanding and think my personal experience is that going home is actually more difficult than it was going out into the new environment. How did you find the homecoming and and going back into, let's say, a Nissan back in in the UK?
00:13:07
Speaker
quite Quite brutal in some ways. um but let say and I think your experience is maybe similar in some ways to mine. you You've lived a full-on life, um work hard, play hard,
00:13:20
Speaker
expat life is is a slight bubble sometimes. um But on the other side, I always lived with this level of not knowing what the next year held, not knowing if I'd be in the same rental house, if I'd be moved countries. And when it got to COVID pandemic, it got to some periods of a life where where I needed to come back really to look after some family members, my mom, and you know you try and make the right choices. You also have children growing up. Mine was starting to be quite deep into into their sort of movement into secondary school.
00:13:50
Speaker
And it's such a transient life being abroad that the benefits of coming home, putting your roots down, giving them their chance of ah building their life was something that probably outweighed everything else. And think the hardest thing I found was actually coming back to the UK, but still delivering and and running the AMEO role. I didn't move to Nissan UK when I came back to the England.
00:14:12
Speaker
And if everyone probably remembers or or maybe tries to forget the difficulties of travel during the pandemic. the difficulties of different opening speeds. So I remember vividly being stuck at home in a second lockdown in the UK while all my colleagues and in France and Dubai at the time, they were out and about in the office and and you really suddenly lost out in that personal interaction and it almost made it harder just because of the the pandemic and But we were lucky. We we came back. we We had a house in the UK we could come and settle all back into.
00:14:42
Speaker
Tough, even simple things, trying to get the kids back into schools that are the right schools because you drop out of the of the gravy train of the system in a particular country. So it's those little things that I remember being super tough.
00:14:55
Speaker
um But it perhaps wasn't until I moved on moved companies did I really a cultural difference because I knew England and I've lived in England two-thirds of my life, so it's not a cultural challenge to come and live here at all or a cultural shock.
00:15:09
Speaker
But I was still working in a, perhaps a more global culture, a more global company with AMEO. So with Nissan and AMEO. That sort of softened the blow to some extent, but also then was frustrating because I couldn't be a part of that anymore.
00:15:22
Speaker
So ultimately, yeah, part of the reasons why I probably stepped away and took another opportunity. Let's talk about that one. I think...
Cultural Insights from McLaren
00:15:28
Speaker
Everybody who's listening to the podcast would would love to hear a little bit about your experience as the chief marketing officer at McLaren.
00:15:36
Speaker
This is an iconic brand. It's well known around the globe. I just happened to see one here on the streets of Bangkok a few days ago on the weekend. And how How was that experience? Surely that was exciting between thee the retail business to the retail customer, but also, of course, there's the Formula One team. You have this entire package of excitement.
00:16:00
Speaker
Can you talk about that a little bit and and how that spans the globe? Perhaps one of the first memories that really made me understand that I was part of a different brand and a different style of brand and people saw it in a different way than Nissan or other to major car companies.
00:16:19
Speaker
um With the reactions of my kids, the first time I tried to pick them up from school and they were at a school local to where i was living I turned up in a and McLaren for the first time that I was borrowing and and know one of them is sort of runs to it and wants to be the first in the passenger seat, the other one's considering walking home. you know and and it's sort of the level of of of wow or show-offness that that comes with ah with a supercar of any type, know, McLaren's, Lamborghini's, Ferrari's, whatever you say, it's um it creates a reaction, whether it's positive or or negative, is depending on the individual, I guess. But um for me, I was was on to have the chance to to step into such an iconic brand, a British brand, a brand I'd followed on the F1 track as a kid and and, you know, had that passion for the F1 side and being able to come into the automotive side and
00:17:07
Speaker
and be CMO and also run a GT race team was was amazing. and Now, culturally though, again, a big culture shock. I think it's been 11 years since I'd worked in a UK office um and probably the people I gravitated quickest to were, well, maybe not the Brits actually. And I maybe almost found myself gravitating to to people from from Ireland, people from from Germany, and and just there was a better and more natural um understanding of their their working culture.
00:17:39
Speaker
hadn't worked with many Brits in and Europe, mostly French, Dutch, Japanese, um Spanish, you name it, but not not necessarily a huge number of Brits within my teens over the years.
00:17:51
Speaker
So it's good. Again, good challenge to sort of really try and adapt yourself. And especially in those first 90 days, you want to make an impression, you come in, you've got all these ideas of how to to deliver on on what you've been brought in to do.
00:18:04
Speaker
and suddenly you realize that, okay, actually, there's an awful lot of people here who have a huge amount of experience, who have far more understanding of what it takes to design, build and and sell a supercar.
00:18:15
Speaker
So how can i ah can I sort of culturally make sure I'm listening to them, but at the same time, trying to bring a little bit more of a global perspective because coming through the pandemic, the shift of of where the customer base was for for companies, not just McLaren, but companies like McLaren, certainly moving to the Middle East, moving to Asia, moving to the US s at a rate of knots.
00:18:38
Speaker
um And really, guess my my role there and my efforts that I made there were trying to listen more to the regions, to get out to the regions and and understand their point of view and understand how what they needed to sell while still keeping this core essence of of what it meant to be a global British supercar brand.
00:18:56
Speaker
But I remember one study though, um really looking into nothing to do with McLaren, just looking into Britishness, what what it means to be British. And You know, out of Asia, it's sort of Harry Potter comes out number one back then.
00:19:08
Speaker
was a few years ago now, but, you know, and when that's the the number one thing that comes out, you know, how close is that to luxury? How close is that to sort of the brand, the the sort of high-tech supercar brand that you wanted to build? it's It's a long, long way.
00:19:22
Speaker
um Whereas you go to the US, there's many, many US's as as we sort of see day to day, but you go to the US and again, that's very different. So how do you take that British essence, but bring it to life in a way that's beneficial to your brand? And and that's sort of listening, learning, trying to take the best of of what's there, and but also trying to take on board other cultures' views of of who you are.
00:19:46
Speaker
As a marketer, how did you manifest that, for example, in the US? How would you have manifested the Britishness of the of the brand? I think it was sort of a traditional focus that supercar brands need to get their supercars on a track.
00:20:02
Speaker
They to show them off driving fast, maybe driving through mountainous regions in Switzerland or or wherever it might be. you know You name it, that's what supercar brands do. and and And actually there was a growing fan base and is a growing fan base around the world that are trying to engage with brands in a very different way. um So back then, NFTs were starting to be very popular as a way of just to translate NFTs because they are a little bit of a past thing these days, but it's really an authenticated piece of digital art.
00:20:34
Speaker
If you think of ah tokens and you know I grew up with Top Trump's cards of sports cars or or football players, how you know it's it's a digital version of a Top Trump card in some ways. It's a digital piece of art that people collect.
00:20:47
Speaker
And what better way to bring McLaren's brands or other people's brands than and engaging in a way that these new fans want to. um and That's why I think McLaren is ah a race brand from Zac Brown's side of the of the paddocks, so to speak, within McLaren is amazing and how well they've connected to their fan base and how well they've they've engaged with them, whether it's through social content, whether it's through physical engagement on site and and just trying to live and work in a way that's culturally relevant to people in the US, in Asia, in the Middle East, in Britain, you name it, they do it and they do it so well. And that's why they're the most loved car on the grid these days. And and they've really taken that mantle from from Red Bull and and that's because of that
00:21:30
Speaker
I believe that way of trying to keep that core essence of the brand, but do it in a specific way for the local customers. It's definitely an exciting brand. and and And certainly, like you said, it can be polarizing people who are interested in supercars and and people who are not with regards to how they feel about cost and patience. Maybe one other thing just to just to throw in there in terms of not so much to compare the two brands, but compared working in different places is this balance of how do you upward manage the boss of different of a different country, a different culture?
Managing Diverse Teams
00:22:05
Speaker
And equally then, how do you lead teams of different cultures and different countries and different backgrounds? And I find that a continual... um passion, I guess, and excitement to try and get right.
00:22:17
Speaker
It's obviously really important for your career to get it right when when you meet with different bosses, different cultures. um you know and know Over my years, I've been lucky enough and I was thinking about it before this podcast, I've worked with Brits, I've worked with French, I've worked with Swiss, I've worked with Germans, I've worked with Japanese, I've worked for Vietnamese, that's another story.
00:22:36
Speaker
um and i've worked for americans and and and mexican um and uh venezuelan i think um and it's it's an amazing it's an amazing sort of level of gymnastics you need to to play and it's it's um it's too easy to think oh it's just politics it's just not politics it's people it's um different people's sort of what makes them tick what are they trying to achieve what are they trying to drive in you and equally from your side how do you get the best out of your team And i for the years i've I've loved sort of high performance podcasts.
00:23:09
Speaker
It's very much to begin with F1 focus, but it's very broad now and the high performance podcast is is really quite interesting. But I always find it quite um specific on trying to be the best, trying to create the best. Well, the reality is most of us are just trying to do a really good job and enjoy ourselves and to have a great, good working environment and to hopefully have your team enjoy themselves and to be successful.
00:23:30
Speaker
It's not necessarily being the best of the best of the best. and And then, especially in ah in a broader work environment, in a you know car industry, you're going to have people who aren't trying to try strive to be the best.
00:23:44
Speaker
So how do you sort of relate to them? How do you get the best out of them, but within the limits of what they're prepared to give? And I'll sort of go down that path, I guess, a little bit, because it's quite difficult to spot what they're prepared to do to give. And you could very easily think, well, this person is lazy. This person doesn't want to work hard just because they're culturally working in a different way.
00:24:04
Speaker
um and And I'd say, I'm not going to try and dive into so stereotypes, but I do think stereotypes are interesting to think about because they can actually help you understand things more quickly if you think of the stereotype and then think, well, okay, therefore get over the, don't use that stereotype to think that people are therefore working in ah in a negative way, working in a bad way. They're working in a way that they understand and that they've been brought up to work.
00:24:31
Speaker
So how do you understand that? How do you relate to that? How do you then empathize with that to get the best out rather than trying to pull them into the particular way you were brought up to work or you were taught to work or you were encouraged to work by your early leaders and early bosses? and um yeah I certainly think this you even our small small continent of Europe and you compare Spanish working practices to French, to German, to English, when you you've already got a complete mix and trying to engage with those mixes is is a sort of continual fascination and and also makes it fun, makes it interesting to try and get the best out of each of these people.
00:25:07
Speaker
How did you do that? Just talking, the after hours conversation, the coffee after lunch, just asking the questions. I think it'd be too arrogant to say I've always done it successfully for a start. I think it's important to know that sometimes things don't work as you as you hope. and And so first of all, learning from those periods of time, learning from time where things haven't quite gelled as a team.
00:25:31
Speaker
but then also looking at when when you have got it right and thinking, okay, how can I ah can of recreate that? um So maybe maybe some simple basics. One, trying to create this shared vision seems to work across cultures. you know If you can get people to buy in to one particular thing that everyone is everyone has helped create for a start, you're actually getting them to help create this and everyone has helped buy into this this shared vision or shared passion, shared goal that you're trying to achieve.
00:25:56
Speaker
and that isn't just a number on a spreadsheet, it's something a bit more meaningful um that people can really sort of take home, tell their kids about, tell their family about, tell their friends about. That really crosses cultures so well. um I've really found that powerful over the years, especially having on and off worked with a clear focus on EV. It's been, in some ways, I've been quite lucky. It's been quite easy to find people that really are passionate about sustainability, about zero emissions, about about protecting the future, regardless of the technology, more focused on what the technology is trying to achieve.
00:26:26
Speaker
and So it's been that's been definitely one way, but I'd say the other side of it is that what is the coffee culture of the country? Now, how do you tap into that specific coffee culture? And maybe this is too stereotypical, but in Britain, it's the there's the afternoon tea in the kitchen.
00:26:43
Speaker
In France, it's the coffee after lunch um or at nine, 10 o'clock in the morning. outside with a cigarette and um that's a very very different stereotype and I get that but having worked in those two environments it's also very it's very real and and you know and you go into i remember vividly 2009 10 11 living in Paris eating dinner on my own because the entire team or group of people I was having dinner with was outside having a cigarette and you know it's a it's an interesting mindset to get into and I'm not advocating going and joining them but
00:27:16
Speaker
actually going and joining them and having ah having a drink or coffee with them is really powerful because they suddenly realize, oh, he's not just a Brit. He's he's actually someone who's interested to hear our view and um they can but can trust you a little bit more. Maybe showing a bit of vulnerability is absolutely part of it.
00:27:33
Speaker
Opening up yourself a little bit more and and breaking down the barriers and you know learning the kids' names, learning their but partners names learning what they do for the weekend there's commonalities so easy to find when you step away from the language or the or the coffee culture i think that's very powerful words um when you consider that the northern european cultures um England, even Americans are not so quick to talk about family and to be vulnerable in in a business environment. you You build a wall basically between you know personal and and work. I always try to look at it as as what's the worst that could happen if you show a little bit of yourself. Yeah, people could judge, but actually maybe you could make a friend.
00:28:14
Speaker
And I know that sounds really so soft in some ways, but got friends all over the world from just being a bit more human, bit more vulnerable. And and I think that's also helped me then lead and and drive teams to be successful um within a positive environment. So again, don't get it right all of the time. And I think it's increasingly hard to get it right as you then bring in generation generational shifts and you look at the working practices, the the styles of work that 20-year-olds are now coming into the working environment.
00:28:42
Speaker
they're different than 20 year olds when I was a 20 year old. It's just different. And we need to adapt to that, learn to that, understand it, but in the end, still get them to deliver and still get them to perform um in the way that the company needs or or that you as a leader requires. So yeah, at another, i'd say headache, another opportunity perhaps to to learn and work in a different way beyond cultures, it's sort of generation shift as well.
00:29:05
Speaker
that That adds a whole nother layer of complexity onto the entire issue of culture and and the workplace.
Adapting in Vietnam and the US
00:29:13
Speaker
So speaking of of coffee culture, you spent time over in Vietnam, which I would argue has one of the strongest coffee cultures on the on the planet with a ah cafe on almost every corner, at least in Hanoi, where Bin Fast is located.
00:29:31
Speaker
How is this for you? this This is really moving not only halfway across the planet, but the culture couldn't possibly be more difficult difficult and different than and learning about it than being in Europe or being in the UK.
00:29:47
Speaker
When you look back, you think, um could you have done things differently? Could you have ah done things in a slightly different way? i think when I went in, I went in with a view of but I've spent a lot of time in in Japan. I understand the likes of Thailand a little bit from from McLaren, China to a certain extent as well, Nissan and McLaren. And you think, oh, you know, I'll be okay. And and then you go in and and wow, it hits you on on day one that things are very, very different. And I'd say that like there's a sort of North Vietnamese culture that around...
00:30:14
Speaker
The company obviously was based there, ah but there's also a culture that the leadership creates. And again, sort of come back to some of that discussion earlier what's the difference between the company and the and the city it's in.
00:30:25
Speaker
I think both of those were very much at play there and were sort of playing out in front of me as I i was trying to get to grips with how to to best support and and lead this team. And um I think there's probably...
00:30:39
Speaker
two lasting thoughts on it. One is work ethic can trump a lot of issues. So even if I didn't connect culturally with the right people in the right way, or if I didn't manage to create a high performing team, if if you put it in inverted commas, I did manage to gain some level of respect because I would put more hours in than they expected from a from a Westerner.
00:31:02
Speaker
I think there was a view of Vietnamese work hard, Westerners westerners don't work hard. and And that was often but sort of the the fun, teasing stereotype that that played out in the coffee chats.
00:31:13
Speaker
um And I was fine with that. and i think that was very fair because and these the people we've met there were working six days a week plus plus their weekend. um And their weekend was only a day. And they were 24-7 and they were they were living and breathing um for for one particular purpose, which was to export Vinfast to the world. And to be able to be part of that for a short period of time and and learn from from that was was incredible.
00:31:39
Speaker
um to To say, yeah, did i did I get everything right? No, I think it's ah it's a real challenge to adapt yourself that quickly. um But on the other side, if you if you sort of buckle down and show that you're willing to roll up your sleeves and work in a, maybe not a similar way, but work with more hours and work with with sort of a level of, um again, openness, I think, to share as much as I could.
00:32:02
Speaker
And whether they took it or not, whether they thought it was useful or not, that was up to up to them and no problem at all. But to be open and and to put everything I had into it, knowing that they'd shown me a level of trust to bring me over there.
00:32:13
Speaker
um But I'd say my my time in VinFast was really, really sort of two-sided. On the one side, it was three months in Vietnam. On the other side, it was three months in l LA. And I'd say adapting and getting people from California to work and in a way that was sort of trying to bridge them to very, very different culture in in Vietnam um was perhaps where I think I was, I hope I was i was more successful as we launched the brand there um within the six months that I was there. But um ah really trying to bridge that cultural gap, I think, was was incredible because you go to California, it isn't a six-day-a-week working culture in the car industry there. And it's certainly not a 24-7 overnight calls. And I was perhaps brought up on the ability to to jump on phone calls all sorts of the hours with Japan, being based in Europe, but having our
00:33:04
Speaker
leadership in Japan. So I didn't think too much of it when I went out to LA doing strange hours and jumping calls, but it wasn't something that the the team there understood necessarily, that it was part of showing respect to the leadership in Vietnam and and trusting that they have ah ah a voice and they have a point of view, at the same time,
00:33:24
Speaker
launching something from afar is never going to work. You need to understand the culture in California and wherever you're going to to to sort of try and make it successful. So try to bridge that gap and and really coming back to 2009 where I felt I was acting as a translator. I'd say more than anything, just tried to put myself into that translation role and and so sort of double down on the work ethic.
00:33:44
Speaker
The success of of a brand in local market, and and now you're talking about the U.S. market, which is it's it's a continent it's it's not just a country but really a full continent and it's really multiple countries on a single you know single band mass did you find that there was a uh an uptake back in in vietnam on what the requirements were in the u.s market because the success of a brand is often you know predicated on the adaptation of the brand to a certain degree to that country both in terms of the product and in terms of the way of working
00:34:21
Speaker
You're right, first of all, starting with America as a continent, it's ah it's a very diverse continent. I remember vividly visiting a retailer for McLaren in Philadelphia and then flying into Charlotte and visiting the retailer there. I mean, this wasn't the same continent from from my point of view. from ah you know I was very much a britter ah Brit abroad in those two environments, but you know seeing that difference has, I think, stood me in good stead when I went to LA.
00:34:46
Speaker
um And I do i do think the the opportunity for a company like VinFast in the US is is really, really strong. and And I do think step by step, they they were really trying to um adapt to the requests when they were made with the right level of of respect and politeness.
00:35:04
Speaker
um And I think, you know that that coming back to that respect element from this, which I've always loved, That's the area where I think hopefully I made a small difference. um ah Hopefully I think it has helped VinFast launch out in the US regardless of of the challenges that that any brand faces when they come to market.
00:35:25
Speaker
You look at Tesla. quality challenges, issues when they first came to market. They didn't have the cultural challenge at the same time, launching in the US, whereas VimFast was trying to replicate in some ways with a direct-to-consumer brand what Tesla was had done and done very successfully, but from afar.
00:35:40
Speaker
um But if you look at it now, there's been a lot of time recruiting really strong American talent and investing in the US and trying to become part of the US through that investment factory, workforce, stores.
00:35:53
Speaker
um And they'll make some stpe mistakes. They'll make more mistakes. But I think yeah that that increasing and and growing understanding of the US culture that the management team they put in place they're bringing is going to hopefully put them in and in a good place. um But a challenging one to begin with, for sure, when you're coming from very much a a culture of of the particular way they wanted to launch in in Vietnam was going to be exported to the world. I think that's a rocky journey when you try and understand, well, why is this not being understood in the way we want it to be?
00:36:24
Speaker
And it's a bit of a journey to try and realize that, oh, wow, okay, maybe this is actually disrespectful to people, customers, brands, sort of your your colleagues in the US or wherever else in in Europe too.
00:36:37
Speaker
Yeah, challenging one. Definitely an interesting business case with with the brand having sprung up so quickly and developed the model lines and and to spread globally in in a relatively short period of time. i think it was about five years before the first exports happened.
00:36:53
Speaker
I mean, look, when you're just coming back to that work ethic, you've you've been to the factories there. I mean, the the work ethic is something I will never, ever forget. You know, it's what it takes. If you want to try and fight and succeed in the car industry, know that's what we're up against, whether it's from China, whether it's from from Vietnam, you know,
00:37:09
Speaker
Western brands, US brands, European brands, we've got to we got to fight, we're going to work harder. um and But do so in a way that also respects the cultures of of Westerners and you know our our working cultures and our our perhaps work-life balance that we've tried to create.
00:37:24
Speaker
So work longer, work harder maybe, but smarter definitely. That is a very good observation. The difference between longer and harder versus what Western countries typically try to achieve, which is which is greater effectiveness and being more efficient, right? Always driving more efficiency out.
00:37:43
Speaker
So very very interesting study as well, especially in a continent where you where you have so much human power that you can employ and and put towards towards big projects. So Gareth, you returned back to the UK following your exploits and and work in Vietnam and over in Los Angeles.
Leadership and Personal Growth Reflections
00:38:02
Speaker
How did your entire journey, how how has that changed you? You've grown up as the child of multiple cultures, but multiple countries, and then seen so much. and How do you think that that has impacted you as being a leader, as being a human?
00:38:22
Speaker
ah think first and and foremost, it's allowed me to create a family a unit or to support a family unit that is very multicultural, very respectful of of the world around them. And I'll always be proud of that.
00:38:35
Speaker
i sir The efforts my wife made to to teach them German and French and and sort of embed them, not just with the language, but the cultures of those two countries. She's German and we obviously lived in France for a long time. So I'll always be proud of that. And I think,
00:38:49
Speaker
and whatever work success that I have, whatever ah work failures I have, yeah that's that's there and that's perhaps, and that's a real legacy, right? That's what we're sort of, um yeah that family unit you create around you and and that's something that you think would not be the same if I'd stayed in the yeah UK. It doesn't mean it'd be worse, but it would be different for sure.
00:39:10
Speaker
So I'm proud of that. I think the the sort of the friendships I've built around the world are something as well I'm really proud of and keeping in touch with people in in Bangkok, in in Vietnam, in Japan, in the US, in Australia, Africa, you you name it. I've got people I can call on around the world. And again, that's something that I think is is legacy and it is something that so that does change you because you you know listen and and live in different ways. And perhaps one of the most inspiring people I've met along my journeys is is not even through work, it's just through travel and and engaging. And this guy, Gavin, he's an Australian,
00:39:48
Speaker
um coach or mentor, if you like, and and just listening to how he goes off to places like mines in in Nigeria and really looks at health and safety and how to build a team and leadership. you know People like that just phenomenal to listen and learn from.
00:40:04
Speaker
And I never would have had the opportunity to to meet and engage with people like that and and like yourself if if I hadn't been you know part of this global automotive industry. um I certainly think it's made me fall in love with with cars and the car industry.
00:40:19
Speaker
I didn't get into the car industry for the love of of cars, um for the smell of the petrol, if you like. I certainly always enjoyed my F1, but that was about it. and know my My dad used to race touring cars and drove across Africa. My brother rebuilds I'll Jaguars, that's never been me. I've always been more fascinated in people and why would someone buy a car? And I think the global industry of the car world sometimes isn't given the respect it it deserves. When you look at what it takes to bring a car to market from designers, engineers, safety, regulation, through to the sort of sales, marketing, and and service worlds that I perhaps operate in more often is um is incredible, and and ever more so with the challenge in regulations and the change in regulations. So um in terms of change my working practices and the way i work and the way i operate, I think definitely it's evolved it.
00:41:09
Speaker
I've always tried to have this level of, I guess, work or lead with empathy, with with a level level of vulnerability. sometimes it doesn't always work and I remember vividly first time I worked for for a German boss um he was a little bit shocked by perhaps the style I had and and I had to adapt a little bit to earn his trust and um certainly I'm dyslexic as well and I think that didn't necessarily translate very well and i didn't quite understand that in the way it came across but then I you know i grew I learnt and and i hope he did too and I and i think he did and and we became very strong colleagues together and
00:41:47
Speaker
um that sort of realization that um yeah you the podcast, the books, the first 90 days, yeah, okay, it's the first 90 days, but it's also the um the way you adapt and learn. And I think that's what I'm i'm now trying to do in my most recent job, sort of working with an AMEO team again in Nissan, but also working very closely with a startup and the different startup culture and that that brings with ah with an owner an owner-founder being part of that. He's incredibly passionate about his brand and trying to bottle that, take that, learn from that that sort of Spanish culture and export that to the rest of Europe in a way that's culturally relevant is you know it's an exciting challenge for me now. and And I think I wouldn't be doing that if I hadn't have gone on the journey beforehand.
00:42:32
Speaker
and that's yeah You never know which which door will open next within the car industry, but it's ah it's a wonderful industry. And the more we can be respectful, I guess, coming back to that first word from Nissan, the more successful I think will be as global car brands.
00:42:46
Speaker
Those are very thought-provoking words and I think very very wise. And I think a lot of people who listen to the podcast will will i learn learn a lot from them.
00:42:58
Speaker
I'd like to take the opportunity to thank you very much for joining us on the Autographer today for this episode. um Very interesting conversation. We've had a very interesting journey.
00:43:10
Speaker
all across the planet with some extremely interesting brands and and adventures behind you. I want to thank you for this opportunity to have this conversation and hope that we have another conversation sometime in the future.
Conclusion and Gratitude
00:43:25
Speaker
Thank you, John. In some ways, fascinating journey down memory lane, in some ways, thought provoking for the future. And yeah, it's good to good to remind yourself sometimes of what you've done and and how to improve in the future. So yeah, thank you.
00:43:36
Speaker
I'd like to close this episode of the Autoethnographer. I hope that you join us again next week for our next episode. Keep on driving. Thank you for joining us on today's journey.
00:43:48
Speaker
I hope you found the episode both informative and entertaining. Please remember to like and subscribe to the Autoethnographer and leave us a rating or comment. please visit our website at auto-ethnographer.com. You can also follow on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn.