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Ep 141: B/W Godzilla and Haggis Thoughts
28 Plays11 months ago
We're talking Black and White Godzilla, the Haggis Trouble, and is Facebook reading our minds?
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction & Hosts' Jests
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:09
Speaker
We are on episode 141.
00:00:11
Speaker
I am Josh Roop with me, my co-captain as always.
00:00:13
Speaker
Scott Larson.
00:00:15
Speaker
Hey, and that's the first time I haven't screwed it up in like three episodes.
00:00:17
Speaker
I know.
00:00:17
Speaker
It's been amazing.
00:00:18
Speaker
Yeah.
New Pinball Game & Supplier Praise
00:00:20
Speaker
And there was a new game revealed.
00:00:23
Speaker
Well, new-ish, right?
00:00:25
Speaker
Uh-huh.
00:00:26
Speaker
If you want that game, Scott, which it kind of sounds like you do, where are you getting it from?
00:00:29
Speaker
Ooh, yeah.
00:00:30
Speaker
Zach and Nicole Mini at Flippin' Out Pinball.
00:00:32
Speaker
They've always been really good, and I'm really excited to talk about this game.
00:00:37
Speaker
They're really responsive.
00:00:39
Speaker
They've always been able to find that.
00:00:40
Speaker
And so if you don't want the new black and white Godzilla, and you're maybe looking for a rush that's going to come back on the line, go ahead and contact them at Flippin' Out Pinball, and they'll get you hooked up.
00:00:52
Speaker
Awesome.
00:00:53
Speaker
And their customer service is great.
Eerie Targeted Ads: A Common Phenomenon?
00:00:56
Speaker
It's insane.
00:00:57
Speaker
Okay, before we get into pinball, I had this creepy moment happen last week, and I think this all happens to us, right?
00:01:03
Speaker
So I want to bring this up because I feel like we can all relate.
00:01:05
Speaker
So I apologize.
00:01:05
Speaker
If it's not pinball, you can skip like five minutes if that...
00:01:09
Speaker
So I was DJing the 4th of July parade in my town.
00:01:13
Speaker
We're downtown.
00:01:14
Speaker
One of the floats goes by, and this guy's wearing one of those big straw hats that say SA on the front of it.
00:01:19
Speaker
So the shield.
00:01:20
Speaker
What does SA mean?
00:01:21
Speaker
I think it's like Shield of America or something like that.
00:01:23
Speaker
It's like if you go online, they sell the armbands you can slide up here that kind of protects from sunburn and stuff like that.
00:01:31
Speaker
And they face shields like a buff from Survivor.
00:01:37
Speaker
I don't know how to describe it.
00:01:38
Speaker
But there are these big straw hats on the brim, underneath the brim, that's like the American flag or whatever.
00:01:43
Speaker
I was like, huh.
00:01:44
Speaker
I've been getting some spots on my face.
00:01:46
Speaker
I work outside a lot.
00:01:46
Speaker
So I'm like, maybe I should get a straw hat and check out this company.
00:01:51
Speaker
The next day, I just thought this.
00:01:52
Speaker
I didn't Google it.
00:01:53
Speaker
I didn't talk about it.
00:01:55
Speaker
I didn't.
00:01:55
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:01:56
Speaker
All the things you'd think my phone heard or knew.
00:02:00
Speaker
And Facebook starts trying to sell me these hats from this company.
00:02:05
Speaker
I'm like, that's creepy.
00:02:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:08
Speaker
Have you ever had that moment, Scott, where you're like, I thought that and I didn't think much about it.
00:02:13
Speaker
And all of a sudden my phone's like, Hey, you know what?
00:02:15
Speaker
You should, you should buy this product or you should check this out.
00:02:17
Speaker
You should really fit our demographic.
00:02:19
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:02:20
Speaker
It's part of it is because targeting advertising is getting, uh, creepily accurate.
00:02:26
Speaker
Yes.
00:02:27
Speaker
And that there's like, Oh, well, based on your browsing history and I'm, I would like to be annoyed about it.
00:02:34
Speaker
However, um,
00:02:35
Speaker
There are a few things where I'm like, actually, that'd be a really good idea.
00:02:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:39
Speaker
So, so I, you know, it's, it is a little bit of a privacy issue, but I, I totally done that.
00:02:45
Speaker
And, and we've all had that when we're home and we have either the phone out or, you know, Alexa or something, and we're having a random conversation and then you start getting targeted ads.
00:02:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:57
Speaker
Unfortunately, it's just the way of the future.
00:03:01
Speaker
It is.
00:03:01
Speaker
It is.
00:03:01
Speaker
And it's, it's, it's really weird.
00:03:03
Speaker
It's really weird how accurate it is.
00:03:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:06
Speaker
And just, just in case anybody's like mildly creeped out, they should be a little more creeped out with, if you read 1984,
00:03:15
Speaker
Yes.
00:03:16
Speaker
Just involvement of other forces into your life can be interesting.
00:03:20
Speaker
However, if those forces have to be pinball, then I would say we're all for it.
00:03:24
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
Home Repairs & Pinball Fixes
00:03:25
Speaker
So just give us, you know, it's been a minute, Scott, since we've talked about our lives.
00:03:30
Speaker
Let's just do a quick update because we've got some notes here.
00:03:33
Speaker
Like the news has been slow-ish, but
00:03:35
Speaker
We got some, we got some decent people want to know people.
00:03:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:38
Speaker
Okay.
00:03:38
Speaker
So one thing I had is yesterday, maybe, uh, last night, the night before, not last night, but the night before, um, I, I came home from work and I'm asking my wife, I was like, okay, why is it so hot in here?
00:03:55
Speaker
It's like so hot in our house.
00:03:56
Speaker
And I took out one of those steak thermometer things that use for barbecuing.
00:04:00
Speaker
And I put it over in our vent and it was blowing out air that was 80 degrees.
00:04:06
Speaker
Nice.
00:04:08
Speaker
So it was circulating.
00:04:09
Speaker
It was blowing something, but it was not cooling.
00:04:12
Speaker
And I thought, huh.
00:04:13
Speaker
So I, I, now, unfortunately, Josh lives three hours away from me.
00:04:18
Speaker
And I, I, so I can't use you as my go-to guy, even though I'd love to, if you wanted to.
00:04:26
Speaker
But I texted the guy who I've been going through and, yeah,
00:04:30
Speaker
Didn't really like in the morning, I didn't want to send it to 11 o'clock at night.
00:04:34
Speaker
I sent it and then I called it like eight o'clock in the morning and I just got a message machine.
00:04:38
Speaker
I said, Hmm, that kind of stinks.
00:04:40
Speaker
So I contacted Josh and I said, Hey dude, my air conditioning doesn't work.
00:04:44
Speaker
He's like, okay.
00:04:45
Speaker
Walk outside.
00:04:46
Speaker
Check this out.
00:04:47
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:47
Speaker
Look at this.
00:04:48
Speaker
This is the fan working.
00:04:49
Speaker
No.
00:04:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:49
Speaker
It's your capacitor.
00:04:50
Speaker
Pull this thing off, figure out what this thing is.
00:04:54
Speaker
So Mr. Handyman here, I pulled everything off.
00:04:56
Speaker
I took a picture of it.
00:04:58
Speaker
Josh said, okay, I've called the place in your area.
00:05:02
Speaker
Just go and they'll use my, you know, my business account so you can get it.
00:05:07
Speaker
And so I went and picked it up and swapped out my capacitor.
00:05:10
Speaker
And now my air conditioning is working again.
00:05:12
Speaker
Ta-da.
00:05:13
Speaker
Ta-da.
00:05:14
Speaker
Piece of cake, right?
00:05:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:15
Speaker
Well, the thing is, it's, I mean, it's okay.
00:05:18
Speaker
It's like pinball repairs, right?
00:05:20
Speaker
It's like, if something's wrong and you know what to do, it's, it's a pretty easy fix.
00:05:24
Speaker
If you, if you're looking underneath the hood of your game and you have no idea what's going on, it could be a maddening, like 12 hours.
00:05:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:34
Speaker
So my favorite part is you're just like, okay, take the panel off.
00:05:36
Speaker
And so I take the panel off and I take a picture and you're like, that's not the panel.
00:05:41
Speaker
That's the electrical box.
00:05:42
Speaker
That's not the panel to the condenser.
00:05:43
Speaker
Exactly.
00:05:44
Speaker
I was like, well, okay.
00:05:45
Speaker
I had a screw and I unscrewed it.
00:05:47
Speaker
So,
00:05:48
Speaker
Just don't stick your finger in there.
00:05:49
Speaker
You're not going to be happy.
00:05:50
Speaker
Yeah, I didn't.
00:05:55
Speaker
Other than that, though, I am currently on vacation.
00:05:57
Speaker
We are up in the mountains, and I'm glad that the Wi-Fi signal is good enough.
00:06:02
Speaker
So our spacious apartment from 1982 with a swarm of locusts.
00:06:08
Speaker
that decided to fly in.
00:06:09
Speaker
What's up with the grasshoppers this year?
00:06:11
Speaker
At least in Utah, it's terrible.
00:06:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:13
Speaker
Well, okay, bugs everywhere.
00:06:15
Speaker
So it's hot because they're up in the mountains, so they don't have air conditioning either.
00:06:19
Speaker
So we had the windows open, and I swear all the insects that Noah put on his ark found their way into here as a safe harbor.
00:06:28
Speaker
I totally agree.
00:06:31
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:06:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:32
Speaker
What about you?
00:06:32
Speaker
Anything else?
00:06:33
Speaker
So, uh, mostly just work and family stuff.
00:06:37
Speaker
You went to a concert.
00:06:38
Speaker
I did go to a concert.
00:06:39
Speaker
So,
00:06:40
Speaker
You know this, like Loserkid is actually based off of an old obscure brand that Blink-182 used to own.
00:06:48
Speaker
So it shows you I enjoy Blink-182, right?
00:06:51
Speaker
So Thursday, Blink-182 was at the Delta 7.
Concert Experiences & Music Preferences
00:06:55
Speaker
They were in town.
00:06:55
Speaker
It's like a match made in heaven.
00:06:56
Speaker
You showed up with your hat.
00:06:58
Speaker
Yeah, guess what I did?
00:07:00
Speaker
I went to Hootie and the Blowfish.
00:07:03
Speaker
I lost the coin toss.
00:07:06
Speaker
Exactly.
00:07:07
Speaker
Well, you had Collective Soul who stole the carpet from Papa and made a suit out of it.
00:07:12
Speaker
Yeah, it was that suit.
00:07:14
Speaker
Honestly, I would like that suit.
00:07:15
Speaker
That suit was pretty gnarly.
00:07:17
Speaker
It was a pretty awesome suit, yeah.
00:07:20
Speaker
But it was interesting because they played a lot of covers for a band that is well recognized and whatnot.
00:07:26
Speaker
Wait, Collective Soul played a lot of covers?
00:07:29
Speaker
Oh, no.
00:07:29
Speaker
Who did who did, but collected soul did do an ACDC dirty deeds to cover.
00:07:34
Speaker
And the main singer surprisingly sounds a lot like Brian from ACDC.
00:07:38
Speaker
Like when he tries to be ACDC, like they could just replace dirty.
00:07:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:07:43
Speaker
Dirty deeds though.
00:07:44
Speaker
That song was Bon Scott.
00:07:46
Speaker
That was not Brian.
00:07:48
Speaker
Oh, was it?
00:07:49
Speaker
Brian didn't come on until Back in Black because Bonscott died.
00:07:55
Speaker
Ah, okay.
00:07:56
Speaker
Did you ever hear the story about Brian when he auditioned?
00:08:00
Speaker
Uh, okay.
00:08:01
Speaker
I think I remember like when, uh, Bon Scott was alive and he saw Brian, he'd like, he'd be a good guy in the band.
00:08:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:08
Speaker
So they were taking auditions for singers and he came in and the middle of singing his appendix ruptured and he fell on the ground was still singing and like, you know, convulsing and whatnot.
00:08:20
Speaker
They're like, man, this guy's intense.
00:08:21
Speaker
He's like into it.
00:08:22
Speaker
And so he got the job.
00:08:23
Speaker
But he went directly to the hospital after the auditions because his appendix ruptured.
00:08:27
Speaker
Wow.
00:08:29
Speaker
He's been singing like his appendix has ruptured ever since.
00:08:32
Speaker
Exactly.
00:08:33
Speaker
But yeah, it was a good concert.
00:08:35
Speaker
It was not my first choice, but it was still a good concert.
00:08:39
Speaker
I would say Hudi does a good show.
00:08:41
Speaker
They do a good show.
00:08:42
Speaker
They do a good show.
00:08:44
Speaker
Like I said, they covered Led Zeppelin, R.E.M.,
00:08:47
Speaker
They did a mishmash of Notorious B.I.G.
00:08:51
Speaker
songs.
00:08:52
Speaker
I know the pinball community is clamoring for a rap album or a rap CD.
00:08:56
Speaker
Maybe go the Hootie way.
00:08:58
Speaker
They've been around since like 86, so you know that 80s is big with the pinball community.
00:09:02
Speaker
So maybe do a Hootie pin with them covering Notorious B. A Hootie singing Wu-Tang.
00:09:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:07
Speaker
That would be good.
00:09:09
Speaker
That was a good concert.
00:09:11
Speaker
I am a heretic when people talk about themes they would like in pinball.
00:09:17
Speaker
And every time they bring those themes up, I always bring up, you're going to sell like a hundred of those.
00:09:24
Speaker
Because that is not a huge thing in the pinball marketplace of the people who buy.
00:09:31
Speaker
And I know that you're walking that fine line of,
00:09:34
Speaker
Do you only sell to the people who you always sell to or do you find other people?
00:09:40
Speaker
I do not see like a Wu-Tang being a big deal.
00:09:43
Speaker
like a big seller do you think like beastie boys would go over well because it's a good mishmash of rock it'd be better with rap yeah yeah it's the old stuff like you know uh um brooklyn or no sleep till brooklyn and and uh fight for your right to party but then if you did newer stuff like intergalactic and stuff like that you'd you get a good mishmash of rock and rap so
00:10:07
Speaker
I don't know.
00:10:08
Speaker
I think, I think that's a good starting point in my opinion.
00:10:11
Speaker
It was certainly a more of a crossover because you'd get more of the middle-aged white guy demographic.
Stern's Godzilla Release & Pricing Strategy
00:10:20
Speaker
And that's, you have to at least sell enough.
00:10:23
Speaker
You don't only have to cater to the middle-aged white guys, but you have to sell enough to the middle-aged white guys because that's who are the majority of the buyers.
00:10:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:32
Speaker
Yep.
00:10:32
Speaker
Sadly that's.
00:10:34
Speaker
Give it another, give it another 10, 20 years.
00:10:37
Speaker
Maybe.
00:10:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:38
Speaker
Beastie boys have never totally figured out because they always, I know that they have a huge following and people love them.
00:10:45
Speaker
And I saw them 2009,
00:10:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:10:49
Speaker
When, when they were, uh, it was like a big festival and that was when the police re had a reunion.
00:10:58
Speaker
Okay.
00:10:58
Speaker
So like, so I went and I saw beastie boys and the police.
00:11:01
Speaker
And I always felt that they were a bunch of rich Jewish kids from New York who got together and made like a hip hop album.
00:11:11
Speaker
And it sold, which is just kind of funny.
00:11:14
Speaker
It just seems like it's totally non-intuitive considering all the rap that was being made at the time.
00:11:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:23
Speaker
But hey, it worked.
00:11:24
Speaker
It was definitely a mismatch of styles that connected with a lot of people.
00:11:29
Speaker
Yeah, I agree.
00:11:30
Speaker
All right, let's move on.
00:11:31
Speaker
I think people have had enough of, they've had the five-minute fill of our lives.
00:11:34
Speaker
Meanwhile, meanwhile.
00:11:36
Speaker
Meanwhile.
00:11:36
Speaker
Okay, the biggest, I feel like the biggest news that's happened in the last two, three weeks, Godzilla Black and White, let's talk about this.
00:11:44
Speaker
What do you think, what were your initial reactions when it first came out?
00:11:51
Speaker
This is a good move.
00:11:53
Speaker
Stern because it takes the opportunity to release various versions of a premium branded pinball machine.
00:12:03
Speaker
Now, you could argue that this could have been an LE.
00:12:07
Speaker
However, we've also seen what has happened when Stern has decided to release things under the LE badge.
00:12:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:17
Speaker
That after they've already released an LE.
00:12:20
Speaker
So this is getting a little bit back to like ACDC Lucy edition.
00:12:26
Speaker
This is getting to like Batman 66 Catwoman edition.
00:12:30
Speaker
These are alternative art packages for an existing game.
00:12:35
Speaker
And they did something very smart where they kept it at the premium package price.
00:12:40
Speaker
Yep.
00:12:41
Speaker
Yep.
00:12:43
Speaker
Did they need to do this?
00:12:45
Speaker
Maybe not.
00:12:46
Speaker
Godzilla sells enough as it is.
00:12:50
Speaker
However, as we look at the sales of Stern, you see how much of their volume is dependent on Elwin releases.
00:13:01
Speaker
So if they can find a way of squeezing a few more buyers and I'm interested, my wife still prefers the color.
00:13:10
Speaker
So I don't know if I'll pull the trigger on it.
00:13:13
Speaker
However, my friend who just comes over and plays my Godzilla, who actually lived in Japan for a couple of years, he saw that and he said, I want the black and white.
00:13:24
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:13:25
Speaker
So this is going to sell games.
Stern's Manufacturing & Art Packages
00:13:27
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:13:27
Speaker
And this looks really cool.
00:13:30
Speaker
Looks really cool.
00:13:32
Speaker
So, so one thing I want to point out too, cause you were talking about like Ellie and stuff like that.
00:13:36
Speaker
So if we can rewind back to 2023, you know, they did release a JP 30th.
00:13:40
Speaker
They replaced a new Elvira 40th anniversary.
00:13:44
Speaker
That was an Ellie.
00:13:44
Speaker
Those are both Ellie's book.
00:13:46
Speaker
That was like the super Ellie, like the Elvira was, that was like a bond 60 cash type grab.
00:13:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:54
Speaker
So, so my assumption is, is they have some of these in their back pocket, but
00:13:58
Speaker
ready to go when when a game is not selling as well as they had hoped because you watched like when those both dropped was shortly after venom like venom had only been out a month and that's the first thing i thought was like you only have venom out for a month like you're dropping jurassic park 30th like you're kind of taking the wind out of the cells of venom cells but maybe it wasn't selling well enough either are they taking the wind out
00:14:21
Speaker
I don't know.
00:14:21
Speaker
They're keeping the line moving.
00:14:23
Speaker
Okay.
00:14:23
Speaker
That's, that's my point.
00:14:24
Speaker
My point is Stern is a Stern is number one, a pinball manufacturer.
00:14:30
Speaker
Correct.
00:14:32
Speaker
So they are quite tuned in and any manufacturer will do this.
00:14:36
Speaker
They're quite tuned in on what is selling at the time.
00:14:40
Speaker
And this was Williams, right?
00:14:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:43
Speaker
Williams, they would manufacture and say, well,
00:14:46
Speaker
we just need to keep the line going.
00:14:48
Speaker
And so if the demand is dropping off for this game, we need to pivot to the next game.
00:14:54
Speaker
And they know that there are going to be ebbs and flows in the sales department.
00:15:00
Speaker
So moving on to a different theme that will keep the line moving is a very smart idea.
00:15:07
Speaker
And I believe you're right that they have a few of these in their pocket that they can say, hey,
00:15:15
Speaker
We didn't sell as much as we could have on this.
00:15:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:19
Speaker
So let's move to that.
00:15:20
Speaker
So, and I think the problem though, last year that I don't know if many people saw it in, in the forefront, but we'd heard in the background, LER, LE buyers were kind of getting their pitchforks out because yeah,
00:15:32
Speaker
You're selling LE product.
00:15:33
Speaker
That was already kind of guaranteed to a limited number.
00:15:35
Speaker
Now you're essentially doubling that number for, even though it's a different edition.
00:15:40
Speaker
And so the thing is, is like, you want to keep your LE buyers happy.
00:15:43
Speaker
They're your upfront.
00:15:45
Speaker
They're essentially your pre-order money, which it's not technically pre-order because you're getting your game within like a month.
00:15:49
Speaker
Right.
00:15:49
Speaker
Right.
00:15:50
Speaker
But they're more of a, they're a high end, highly interested group.
00:15:55
Speaker
Correct.
00:15:55
Speaker
And they are willing to pay really,
00:15:59
Speaker
my take is they're willing to overpay for a product to get the exclusivity yep and so my assumption here is is because as we fast forward we go to this japanese black and white version we do notice it's all the le artwork it is like the cabinet has been mirrored so it's like but it's pretty much the same except for godzilla's
00:16:24
Speaker
name has been removed with a Japanese name put on.
00:16:27
Speaker
It's all black and white.
00:16:29
Speaker
My thought is, they were already planning on releasing this as an LE, but after what happened in 2023, I bet they already had, like, Zombie Eddie already had this all done, and they're like, you know what, we're just going to release this as a premium and mark it as a premium.
00:16:41
Speaker
And just because they didn't want more pitchforks.
00:16:43
Speaker
And in my opinion, it works out better for Stern anyway, because then the premium, like this, they get more longevity out of this release as well.
00:16:51
Speaker
You can re-release it.
00:16:52
Speaker
And like Gomez said in the video, it was like,
00:16:54
Speaker
we will keep producing these as we have a demand for them.
00:16:58
Speaker
So, because some people brought up like, it's kind of weird that use the LE artwork.
00:17:02
Speaker
And me personally, I can't like confirm or deny and Stern's never going to say yes or
Stern's Past Releases & Future Speculations
00:17:07
Speaker
no.
00:17:07
Speaker
But,
00:17:07
Speaker
My thought is this was originally supposed to be an LE release, but after the Pitchforks came out last year, they're like, you know what?
00:17:13
Speaker
We'll call it a premium.
00:17:14
Speaker
So I think this is still going to happen going forward.
00:17:16
Speaker
But my suggestion is if you're going to do more of these, don't use the LE artwork for a premium package.
00:17:21
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:17:24
Speaker
I don't see it as being a big deal.
00:17:26
Speaker
The LE artwork versus the premium artwork.
00:17:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:32
Speaker
You could be right.
00:17:33
Speaker
This was a possibility for that.
00:17:35
Speaker
I'm not sure how far back.
00:17:37
Speaker
So when did the JP30 come out?
00:17:40
Speaker
August of 2023.
00:17:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:17:43
Speaker
So it was last year.
00:17:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:45
Speaker
And then it came out in July.
00:17:46
Speaker
So it was literally like a month later.
00:17:48
Speaker
I did my research.
00:17:49
Speaker
I did it.
00:17:50
Speaker
You did.
00:17:50
Speaker
Good job.
00:17:51
Speaker
I'm on vacation.
00:17:52
Speaker
So I'm just shooting from the hip.
00:17:54
Speaker
When was Godzilla released?
00:17:57
Speaker
Oh, of course you're going to ask me a question that I don't know the answer to.
00:18:01
Speaker
I want to say it was March of 21.
00:18:03
Speaker
Okay, so it's been three years.
00:18:08
Speaker
Yeah, I'm just wondering, was it possible that they... Because they have done these alternative packages under the premium banner before.
00:18:18
Speaker
Yeah, like Catwoman.
00:18:21
Speaker
Catwoman and ACDC, but you do bring up a good point that maybe they originally thought, hey, we could do this as another LE.
00:18:30
Speaker
But they also, because you're right, because of the pitchforks, they basically released a statement saying we are no longer releasing additional LEs.
00:18:41
Speaker
If we do alternative art packages, it will be under the premium banner.
00:18:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:47
Speaker
So I just looked it up.
00:18:48
Speaker
It wasn't March, 2021.
00:18:49
Speaker
It was September, 2021.
00:18:51
Speaker
So I was only five months.
00:18:53
Speaker
That's pretty good.
00:18:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:54
Speaker
You, you, you, you, the one thing to consider about these releases though, is sorry.
00:19:05
Speaker
You're good.
00:19:06
Speaker
Bug, bug flew in my mouth.
00:19:09
Speaker
The one thing to consider about these things though, is that these are great options for,
00:19:15
Speaker
The one thing that Stern is doing that I would argue other companies are not doing as well.
00:19:24
Speaker
And the main things that I could compare it to is something like Chicago Gaming Company.
00:19:31
Speaker
Now, you can look at... So the aliens have landed in Scott's backyard at his vacation home?
00:19:39
Speaker
Okay, seriously.
00:19:40
Speaker
I have no idea.
00:19:40
Speaker
This is...
00:19:44
Speaker
there's seriously like a fire road that's next to it.
00:19:47
Speaker
So they must have something drive by.
00:19:50
Speaker
The one thing that Stern does really well is there is a, there is a difference between a pro, a premium and an LE.
00:19:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:00
Speaker
But it is not an insurmountable chasm.
00:20:04
Speaker
So Stern makes Stern makes games quicker than anybody.
00:20:09
Speaker
We know that.
00:20:11
Speaker
The downside of Chicago Gaming Company is they have created a gulf between their LE version and their special edition or whatever that is way bigger than what a premium to an LE for Stern is.
00:20:33
Speaker
And in many ways, it's kind of dropped off the market for anything other than their LE version.
00:20:40
Speaker
So if you, and it's, it's a, they need to figure out a way of being able to make a lot of good versions of the game that are, that don't feel like a, a second class version of the game.
00:20:56
Speaker
Cause I don't feel a premium stern is a second class version of the game.
00:21:01
Speaker
Do you?
00:21:02
Speaker
No, I don't think so.
00:21:03
Speaker
But when you look at like an attack from Mars special edition, it's,
00:21:07
Speaker
you are very aware that it is not the same as the Ellie.
00:21:12
Speaker
Yeah, it's true.
00:21:13
Speaker
So finding that balance of, okay, this is an alternative presentation of the same product.
00:21:19
Speaker
Stern's actually really good at finding ways of doing that.
Re-releasing Games: A Stern Strategy?
00:21:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:24
Speaker
And I, this is a great looking art package.
00:21:27
Speaker
I, I am, I still like the color.
00:21:31
Speaker
But I can see how the black and white would really make an impact.
00:21:36
Speaker
What are your thoughts on the black and white options?
00:21:38
Speaker
So honestly, I really like it.
00:21:41
Speaker
If it wasn't for the fact that I had all the Stumbler mods installed in my Godzilla along with a pinwoofer set and my Godzilla wasn't all decked out,
00:21:50
Speaker
uh i'd probably sell off my godzilla to get the black and white i just think it's that good looking i think they did a really good job with this i like the black and white with the accents of red it just it looks really good i i'm a fan of it uh i like the foil on the the foil looks great do you remember my iron man
00:22:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:09
Speaker
The, the, my Ironman had the foil sides and it looked really good.
00:22:12
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:22:13
Speaker
And that's the thing.
00:22:13
Speaker
And, and like Goma, it says like, you've got to see it to believe it kind of thing.
00:22:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:17
Speaker
Like if you, if you looked at this project and seriously see one in person, you go, oh yeah.
00:22:21
Speaker
Like, and that's what I like.
00:22:23
Speaker
I mean, this is a premium product.
00:22:24
Speaker
So you're, you're, yeah.
00:22:26
Speaker
So overall, I think this was a very smart move.
00:22:29
Speaker
And it kind of leads me into, you know, we're talking about how, you know, Stern always has something in their back pocket.
00:22:35
Speaker
It sounds like they just renewed the license for Rush and they might be running those.
00:22:40
Speaker
They said they're going to run more of those.
00:22:41
Speaker
Do you see this coming?
00:22:43
Speaker
You know, I, yes, actually.
00:22:45
Speaker
And I know that sounds weird because Rush is, by all admission, Rush is a niche band.
00:22:53
Speaker
Okay.
00:22:54
Speaker
And it was probably more of a passion project for John Borg.
00:22:59
Speaker
and maybe Lyman sheets because they were huge fans of rush and I'm a huge fan of rush.
00:23:03
Speaker
So I appreciate that they made it.
00:23:07
Speaker
However, they didn't really make that many of them before they moved on.
00:23:13
Speaker
And so they had rush and okay, what was the next game that came out after rush?
00:23:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:18
Speaker
Great question.
00:23:19
Speaker
You keep talking about, I'll, I'll pull it up.
00:23:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:22
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:23:22
Speaker
Cause we had Godzilla and,
00:23:24
Speaker
And then Rush was after Godzilla.
00:23:27
Speaker
Which is weird.
00:23:28
Speaker
Rush won game of the year too.
00:23:31
Speaker
And by the way, we stopped making up.
00:23:34
Speaker
But it was also a weird year where it was a pandemic time.
00:23:38
Speaker
Bond came out after Rush.
00:23:41
Speaker
Okay, Bond came out until October.
00:23:43
Speaker
And Rush was almost January.
00:23:46
Speaker
Yes, but it was still during these limits.
00:23:49
Speaker
They were still under a lot of these restrictions.
00:23:52
Speaker
True.
00:23:53
Speaker
No, this is 2022.
00:23:55
Speaker
Yeah, they were still trying to bounce back because there was a while where they were only releasing two games.
00:24:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:03
Speaker
Well, you got to understand before Rush, there was Godzilla.
00:24:05
Speaker
So it could be like they were just trying to keep up with that demand as well.
00:24:08
Speaker
So they were selling a ton of Godzillas.
00:24:10
Speaker
So a combination of that, a combination of Bond really was released before it was ready.
00:24:18
Speaker
Um, and whether or not that was because of licensor or a time, a timeline that they had to, there's, there's gotta be a lot more to the story on to why they released
John Borg's Rumored X-Men Release
00:24:29
Speaker
it when they did.
00:24:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:30
Speaker
But I, I think everyone was buying Godzilla that that's what was going on.
00:24:35
Speaker
They didn't sell.
00:24:36
Speaker
I, people who wanted the full compliment, they bought the LE and I don't know how many people bought the premium.
00:24:45
Speaker
I just haven't seen that many of them.
00:24:47
Speaker
of Godzilla rush of rush.
00:24:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:24:50
Speaker
So I want to say they only did like one run.
00:24:53
Speaker
I really think of it.
00:24:54
Speaker
Maybe two on the pros.
00:24:56
Speaker
So they could, they could definitely just crank those out and fulfill some small demand.
00:25:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:04
Speaker
I don't think it's a huge demand, but it seemed like it was not adequately fleshed out.
00:25:11
Speaker
So my question is, because Rush is very reminiscent of Borg's X-Men that was released like a decade ago or whatever it was.
00:25:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's like a better version of X-Men.
00:25:22
Speaker
I had X-Men.
00:25:23
Speaker
I thought it was okay, but I didn't love it.
00:25:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:28
Speaker
you know, rush is a better version.
00:25:31
Speaker
It still kicks my butt and I'm frustrated by it, but yes.
00:25:34
Speaker
So Borg is rumored to be next in the pipeline.
00:25:36
Speaker
I know it's Borg or danger.
00:25:37
Speaker
That's, that's the two, that's the coin.
00:25:40
Speaker
We got coming up.
00:25:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:42
Speaker
So, and the rumor is that Borg is on X-Men 97.
00:25:47
Speaker
which is weird to me because like if you ended up redoing the X-Men like layout and just like re-releasing it as like a touched up version of the original X-Men, aren't you kind of doing that?
00:25:58
Speaker
Like Rush was his last, last release.
00:26:01
Speaker
And then we do that again with X-Men.
00:26:02
Speaker
Do you think,
00:26:04
Speaker
Do you think that's kind of weird?
00:26:05
Speaker
Do you think that he's going to get blowback?
00:26:07
Speaker
And granted, we haven't seen anything.
00:26:09
Speaker
We don't know anything.
00:26:10
Speaker
It's a rumor.
00:26:11
Speaker
I'm going off of rumors and assumptions.
00:26:14
Speaker
And so I'm just like, it's a really weird strategy to release essentially the same game twice.
00:26:21
Speaker
I'm scratching my head about the X-Men 97.
00:26:26
Speaker
If you're going to do a cartoon version of a big favorite game,
00:26:34
Speaker
Batman Beyond is actually, you know, Batman, is it Batman Beyond?
00:26:37
Speaker
Or is that the one where- The original Batman animated series.
00:26:42
Speaker
Yeah, the Batman animated series.
00:26:43
Speaker
That's what I mean.
00:26:44
Speaker
That's the one where Mark Hamill did the Joker voice.
00:26:47
Speaker
Joker, yep.
00:26:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:48
Speaker
So if you're going to choose a cartoon that is still relatable to other stuff, like a live action equivalency, I would have chosen that theme.
00:26:59
Speaker
I truly do not understand doing the X-Men 97 theme.
00:27:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:05
Speaker
We've talked about this before.
00:27:06
Speaker
We know that Stern and Disney have a relationship.
00:27:09
Speaker
They do.
00:27:10
Speaker
And they tend to do Disney properties, it seems like, once every 18 months.
00:27:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:17
Speaker
Whether it's a re-release of an existing one they've already done or a new title.
00:27:23
Speaker
I mean, it's no secret.
00:27:24
Speaker
You go back through the pin side list on Stern.
00:27:26
Speaker
I mean, they just
FOMO in the Pinball Market
00:27:27
Speaker
released Venom last year.
00:27:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:30
Speaker
you know, while we're talking, we're talking X-Men, they've obviously done that.
00:27:35
Speaker
And Star Wars is a Disney property and Avengers, Infinity Quest.
00:27:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:41
Speaker
Is this possible ahead, a head fake though?
00:27:45
Speaker
Is this possible I had fake in that they have leaked out that it's X-Men 96 or whatever?
00:27:54
Speaker
97.
00:27:55
Speaker
So the original series went for like five years in the 90s, and this is picking right up from the 90s series.
00:28:00
Speaker
Okay.
00:28:01
Speaker
However, there's a much better option with Wolverine character that's in the theaters right now.
00:28:09
Speaker
Well, in two weeks.
00:28:09
Speaker
But yeah, I get what you're saying.
00:28:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:12
Speaker
And there's a much better option and having a Deadpool Wolverine.
00:28:16
Speaker
I get that.
00:28:18
Speaker
Yes.
00:28:18
Speaker
100%.
00:28:20
Speaker
And if this is being pushed by Disney, imagine having a Wolverine Deadpool and you get Ryan Reynolds doing some cameo teaser for it.
00:28:36
Speaker
I, that is a, that is a home run home run.
00:28:41
Speaker
So I I'm still skeptical that 97 is really the game.
00:28:46
Speaker
I, I will be the first to stand up and say I was dead wrong if it ends up being X-Men 97, but that doesn't make sense to me.
00:28:55
Speaker
It really doesn't.
00:28:56
Speaker
Well, like I said, and with Wolverine and Deadpool, you're only paying for two likenesses.
00:29:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:02
Speaker
You're not paying for a huge cast.
00:29:04
Speaker
And really, I mean, like I said, it could be X-Men 97 and they're doing a whole new layout.
00:29:08
Speaker
I just thought,
00:29:09
Speaker
I thought it'd be really weird where they've, they've agreed.
00:29:10
Speaker
They just announced that they're releasing rush and say they do release a Borg in the next two, three months.
00:29:16
Speaker
And it happens to be X-Men 97.
00:29:19
Speaker
I just find it, it would be really weird to be the exact same layout.
00:29:21
Speaker
Not exact same.
00:29:22
Speaker
I mean, there's some touches, some differences, but I mean, you're, you're pretty close, but yeah.
00:29:29
Speaker
Another question though, and we're getting into this, are people getting, is the FOMO gone?
00:29:39
Speaker
And I would argue that these games, they have a longer shelf life, at least some of these games anyway.
00:29:47
Speaker
We see others that come and they're like, okay, we're selling them after five months or six months.
00:29:53
Speaker
And there are certain games that fall into that category.
00:29:56
Speaker
But there's a lot of people who are, they're buying their L1s and they're staying on them.
00:30:01
Speaker
Yep.
00:30:02
Speaker
We have a secondary market.
00:30:03
Speaker
We were talking about this with Triple Drain the other day.
00:30:05
Speaker
I mean, yeah.
00:30:05
Speaker
I watched The Walking Dead modded and looked great.
00:30:08
Speaker
4700 is what it was finally...
00:30:11
Speaker
That's where it was selling at.
00:30:12
Speaker
It did sell.
00:30:13
Speaker
I don't know if that's what they sold it at, but I doubt the buyer went higher.
00:30:16
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:30:17
Speaker
So we're at least thinking 4,700.
00:30:18
Speaker
Right.
00:30:19
Speaker
Now, and then Travis called- 10 year old game.
00:30:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:21
Speaker
I'm even talking about the recent games.
00:30:23
Speaker
I mean, you're talking like Foo Fighters sold really well, and then you saw a flood of them on the secondary market.
00:30:29
Speaker
Venom sold okay, but you're seeing Venoms come onto the secondary market at quite competitive prices.
00:30:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:39
Speaker
I saw one for 5,000 the other day, a pro.
00:30:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:42
Speaker
So.
00:30:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:43
Speaker
I, there's one that was like 7,000 and I thought that that would be kind of fun, but then I have to look at my games that I have and I, okay, I have Jurassic park.
00:30:52
Speaker
I have Godzilla.
00:30:53
Speaker
I have a rush.
00:30:55
Speaker
I have iron mate, you know, so I have all these games that I'm not planning on parting with.
00:30:59
Speaker
I also have all the CGC games.
00:31:01
Speaker
And so there's a question of where am I?
00:31:04
Speaker
I already have eight games in my garage stacked up as storage.
00:31:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:08
Speaker
Like which one is going to supplant that?
00:31:11
Speaker
And I don't see with some of these games, I just don't see them doing that.
00:31:18
Speaker
So part of me wonders if they're new games.
00:31:20
Speaker
And I would argue with Godzilla, I also feel like I have a lot of really great
Keith Elwin's Game Design Impact
00:31:27
Speaker
Elwyn games.
00:31:27
Speaker
And I know Godzilla is a great game.
00:31:30
Speaker
But do I need a, sorry, Jaws.
00:31:34
Speaker
Do I need a Jaws?
00:31:36
Speaker
and a Godzilla, and a Jurassic Park.
00:31:38
Speaker
Yes, you do.
00:31:39
Speaker
Okay.
00:31:40
Speaker
I don't know.
00:31:41
Speaker
Seriously, Jaws... So, I have this theory.
00:31:44
Speaker
I mean, this is a terrible theory.
00:31:45
Speaker
I don't know if someone at Stern would get mad at me for saying this, but I have to wonder... Yeah, it's a theory.
00:31:50
Speaker
We can talk whatever you want.
00:31:51
Speaker
Yeah, let's talk theories.
00:31:52
Speaker
I really feel like...
00:31:54
Speaker
elwynn's taking a stab at some of the best games ever made so godzilla is reminiscent of a medieval madness because of the skyscraper and bashing it and yada yada yada but it's a better flow it's a better game in my opinion it is i feel like jaws is his stab at attack from mars you have a it's almost up the middle but it's it's one of those shots that come back at you but with the captive ball
00:32:18
Speaker
It's a little more forgiving than the stand-ups on Attack for Mars.
00:32:21
Speaker
Then you have, you know, the shield drops or the boat goes up and you have the ship in the back or you have the shark that comes out.
00:32:29
Speaker
And then the shots are very, I don't want to say fan-ish, but they're more in front of you, like on Attack for Mars.
00:32:37
Speaker
You do have the side shot, and the quick shot feels so satisfying when you hit it.
00:32:41
Speaker
That's where you shoot to the left from the mini flipper, in through the gap, like on Adam's Family or No Good Gophers.
00:32:50
Speaker
So my thought process is like,
00:32:54
Speaker
He's one-upping the best games that have ever been made.
00:32:57
Speaker
And Jaws is up there.
00:33:00
Speaker
It's fantastic.
00:33:01
Speaker
It really, really is.
00:33:02
Speaker
So that's my opinion.
00:33:05
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:05
Speaker
I'm sticking to it.
00:33:06
Speaker
Pandasol, Wizard of Oz, I guess.
00:33:08
Speaker
Exactly.
00:33:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:11
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:13
Speaker
That's actually an interesting point.
00:33:14
Speaker
I didn't really think of it that way, but it would make sense.
00:33:17
Speaker
And Keith certainly has the background in that.
00:33:20
Speaker
I also... Okay.
00:33:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:22
Speaker
I wonder though, because I still have Medieval Madness and Attack from Mars.
00:33:27
Speaker
And the difference for me is because I've kept the flippers, drop flippers on Attack from Mars.
00:33:33
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:34
Speaker
And did you keep them that way or did you level them out?
00:33:37
Speaker
So I want to say I leveled them out because I thought they were supposed to be leveled out.
00:33:42
Speaker
But then you sent me an interview.
00:33:44
Speaker
I think it was with Brian Eddy and Slamtilt where he's like, no, they're supposed to be dropped.
00:33:47
Speaker
They're not supposed to be leveled out.
00:33:49
Speaker
Because it makes the game that much easier when you have them leveled out.
00:33:52
Speaker
See, it is.
00:33:53
Speaker
And actually, it's hard for me to go back because I have Medieval Madness and Attack from Mars next to each other.
00:33:59
Speaker
And I have to recalibrate because the shots aren't where you think they are after you've done Medieval Madness because they're in your traditional fan areas.
00:34:08
Speaker
And with Attack from Mars, you really have to trap up a little bit because those shots up the middle are kind of hard.
00:34:14
Speaker
And you end up getting a lot more side to side action.
00:34:16
Speaker
And we didn't point, we didn't bring this up, but in John Wick, they're drop flippers too.
00:34:24
Speaker
Yep.
00:34:25
Speaker
And we did ask Elliot about that and we forgot to bring it up in our John Wick review, but those are, that is an interesting element that does mix things up and makes games feel different.
00:34:38
Speaker
I wonder if John Wick would be easier if you leveled them out.
00:34:42
Speaker
Someone should try that and let us know.
00:34:43
Speaker
If you have a John Wick, level them out.
00:34:45
Speaker
Tell us what you think.
00:34:46
Speaker
Because that game is pretty hard as is.
00:34:49
Speaker
It is.
00:34:49
Speaker
It is.
00:34:50
Speaker
And my friend is just moving, and he has his LE boxed up, so I will get more time on it now.
00:34:56
Speaker
So speaking of Stern news, Greg Ferraris, the art director, he's been the art director for years now.
00:35:03
Speaker
I mean, the dude's a legend.
00:35:05
Speaker
Like if you don't, if you're not familiar with Greg's art packages, you are familiar with Greg's art packages.
00:35:11
Speaker
Yeah, you are.
00:35:12
Speaker
Think of any sort of game that came out in the eighties and it's Greg.
00:35:16
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:35:17
Speaker
He did all the L virus.
00:35:19
Speaker
He, he worked on medieval madness.
00:35:21
Speaker
He worked on monster bash.
00:35:24
Speaker
I mean, Walking Dead, just all these amazing art packages.
00:35:29
Speaker
Fathom, you know, Fathom that's revered for its art package.
00:35:32
Speaker
He worked on that.
Labyrinth's Success & Barrels of Fun's Reputation
00:35:34
Speaker
I mean, seriously, go to Pinside or go to your IPDB and just type in Greg Ferris.
00:35:41
Speaker
Okay, I just did.
00:35:42
Speaker
So Revenge from Mars, you got Jackpot, you got Harlem Globetrotters.
00:35:47
Speaker
I mean, this is from 79.
00:35:47
Speaker
He's earned retirement.
00:35:49
Speaker
He's...
00:35:52
Speaker
Oh my gosh, there's an awesome picture on Pinball News with him having a permullet that he stole from 1972.
00:35:59
Speaker
It's awesome.
00:36:03
Speaker
It's going to be hard to fill those shoes.
00:36:07
Speaker
They did hire Sebastian Napoli.
00:36:11
Speaker
I apologize if I've slaughtered your last name.
00:36:16
Speaker
They didn't do such a flattering picture for the Stern letter they sent out.
00:36:22
Speaker
Okay.
00:36:22
Speaker
Okay.
00:36:23
Speaker
It's not, it's not bad.
00:36:24
Speaker
He just looks like a bouncer.
00:36:25
Speaker
That's going to throw you out of the club for going too far.
00:36:30
Speaker
He looks pissed off.
00:36:31
Speaker
Like, why are you taking my picture?
00:36:33
Speaker
Let me break.
00:36:34
Speaker
I'm going to break that camera.
00:36:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:36
Speaker
You don't need another drink.
00:36:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:38
Speaker
No, it's, uh, yeah.
00:36:40
Speaker
It's interesting, though.
00:36:41
Speaker
They definitely have to transition to the younger generation, and he's definitely significantly younger than Greg.
00:36:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:48
Speaker
Yep.
00:36:50
Speaker
It's good.
00:36:51
Speaker
Congratulations to him.
00:36:52
Speaker
Congratulations to Greg on a well-earned retirement.
00:36:55
Speaker
Yep, definitely.
00:36:57
Speaker
I wouldn't be shocked, though, if there's still some calls made to say, Greg, what's your thoughts on this?
00:37:01
Speaker
I don't think he's 100% retired.
00:37:03
Speaker
Well, none of them really are 100% retired.
00:37:06
Speaker
Yeah, that's true.
00:37:08
Speaker
That's true.
00:37:09
Speaker
So speaking of 90s games and artwork, Labyrinth.
00:37:12
Speaker
barrels of fun just announced that they've sold 822 of these games so they're making a total of 1100 they're saying there's only about 278 spots left if you haven't ordered your game you can still order it and if you order now
00:37:28
Speaker
you can get it by January or February, which is impressive.
00:37:31
Speaker
So we're coming up.
00:37:32
Speaker
I think they're kind of warning everyone.
00:37:34
Speaker
Cause I don't know if they'll go back.
00:37:35
Speaker
I doubt they'll make the extra say, say they only sell like 800 or 900.
00:37:38
Speaker
So I doubt they're going to make the extra 200.
00:37:41
Speaker
So it's, it's going to be one of those things like once, once they pass, they're done.
00:37:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:47
Speaker
Once, um, and maybe, maybe later on when they, if, if they keep up the transparency in the way that they're building stuff, uh,
00:37:55
Speaker
they could be a force to be reckoned with moving ahead and they might do a stern and be able to go back to the well, but there's no guarantees or promises.
00:38:02
Speaker
It just depends what the future holds.
00:38:03
Speaker
Right.
00:38:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:04
Speaker
And this is, this has been a, this has been a bright spot into some of these companies that have come up and at least so far, it seems like they're able to manufacture to meet demand.
00:38:21
Speaker
And it seems like they are fulfilling their obligations and they don't feel overextended.
00:38:26
Speaker
Now, this is just a casual observer just looking at their business, how they're selling.
00:38:35
Speaker
And I'm hoping that they can keep that going.
00:38:37
Speaker
I'm not sure what sort of investment capital they were able to get, what sort of investors they have, what sort of cash flow they have.
00:38:47
Speaker
But it makes a big difference when you have someone who's willing to invest the money to seed a startup company.
00:38:54
Speaker
Because that's what it takes when you're actually making something.
00:38:58
Speaker
You need millions of dollars.
00:39:01
Speaker
This is not a garage.
00:39:03
Speaker
Okay, you could argue Spooky was a little more of a garage company.
00:39:06
Speaker
But for the most part, it takes millions of dollars to get a product off the line.
00:39:11
Speaker
And you can start selling them to recouping that price.
00:39:16
Speaker
So I'm hoping that they are able to continue that trajectory and it'll be interesting to see what their next game is.
00:39:23
Speaker
Right.
00:39:24
Speaker
I agree.
00:39:25
Speaker
And really Jersey Jack pinball went through this where they actually had a really good showing with wizard of Oz.
00:39:32
Speaker
It was taken a while to get out.
00:39:34
Speaker
And then they ran into trouble with the sequel with Hobbit.
00:39:37
Speaker
And that's when the investors came in and basically had to take over the company.
00:39:42
Speaker
So here's to hoping that things are continuing to go well.
00:39:46
Speaker
And from all reports, Labyrinth seems to be a fun game to play and people really are connecting with theme.
00:39:53
Speaker
I really enjoyed it.
00:39:54
Speaker
It was a very, I got to play it last October at Pinball Expo.
00:39:58
Speaker
I thought it was a really good game.
00:40:00
Speaker
It just, if you haven't played it yet, try to find one locally, get your hands on it.
00:40:05
Speaker
It is a really good game.
00:40:07
Speaker
It is very reminiscent of a nineties, Bally Williams.
00:40:11
Speaker
with an updated code for a modern
Haggis Pinball's Production Challenges
00:40:13
Speaker
era.
00:40:13
Speaker
It just, it's got that nostalgia.
00:40:17
Speaker
It's got that magic.
00:40:19
Speaker
Seriously, like Barrels of Fun is doing it right.
00:40:22
Speaker
And I'm excited to see what's going to happen with them going into the future.
00:40:27
Speaker
So.
00:40:27
Speaker
Okay, I know there's one here in Utah.
00:40:29
Speaker
I'm gonna text him and see if he's got it yet.
00:40:34
Speaker
Let's see, do you.
00:40:38
Speaker
So while you're looking that up, we'll come back to barrels of fun with that information here in a second.
00:40:44
Speaker
But one startup company that has been in the news the last couple of weeks because the proverbial poop has hit the fan.
00:40:53
Speaker
For the wrong reasons.
00:40:54
Speaker
For the wrong reasons.
00:40:55
Speaker
So an unaffiliated company to Haggis Pinball, sorry, an unaffiliated Australian who lives near the company's factory, started posting some stuff about how
00:41:08
Speaker
haggis is only really producing one maybe two fathoms a week right now um they're still promising distributors they'd build several games they've owned for months now it's just it the the communication has all but dropped off people are trying to communicate with them to see hey what's going on people paid in full year plus ago things are starting to look bad um
00:41:35
Speaker
And I feel bad for a couple different people.
00:41:39
Speaker
So like, I know Zach Manning went and talked about his affiliation with Haggis because he's the only distributor in America, if I'm correct.
00:41:47
Speaker
And so he's had some issues because, you know, they didn't build all the fathoms when they said they're going to start making Centaur.
00:41:54
Speaker
And Zach had promised, you know, if you put a deposit down, if Haggis goes under, I will pay you back your deposit, which is $1,000.
00:42:03
Speaker
which by the way, Zach doesn't have because Haggis has the deposit.
00:42:08
Speaker
That's what a deposit is.
00:42:10
Speaker
You are sending the deposit to the company as a request to buy that.
00:42:17
Speaker
And it's a commitment.
00:42:18
Speaker
So Zach is really the pass through on this one.
00:42:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:23
Speaker
So it just, it makes me wonder what's going on.
00:42:26
Speaker
I know that we've reached out personally to Haggis, uh, to do an interview.
00:42:33
Speaker
And we were redirected and it's our fault.
00:42:36
Speaker
We never followed back up.
00:42:38
Speaker
I mean, Damien really, it's hard because I think what their thorn in their side has been was they were super transparent when they first came out.
00:42:49
Speaker
And now it's just crickets, right?
00:42:50
Speaker
Like there's, no one knows what's going on.
00:42:53
Speaker
I'm hearing very mixed reviews on the product that's being received.
00:42:57
Speaker
We know we have personal friends that have bought Haggis product.
00:43:01
Speaker
And they loved it.
00:43:01
Speaker
And the quality has been great.
00:43:03
Speaker
But I'm also hearing people that we know that have received a Fathom game and the Playfuls Warp.
00:43:09
Speaker
And yeah, there's some bad quality issues there.
00:43:11
Speaker
It just, it doesn't make any sense.
00:43:14
Speaker
Like in my opinion, like I get like, there's not going to be a hundred percent.
00:43:17
Speaker
Everything's perfect.
00:43:18
Speaker
Every time it comes out the factory, right?
00:43:19
Speaker
Actually, it does make sense.
00:43:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:43:22
Speaker
It makes sense in that this is a company that is struggling and is barely keeping their nose above water.
00:43:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:30
Speaker
And so it's all the hallmarks of what happens when a company goes through crisis.
00:43:36
Speaker
They, the, they overpron, they promise timelines and they just blow right through them.
00:43:42
Speaker
They, when they, when they produce something, it is not to a standard that people expect.
00:43:49
Speaker
And we have seen this before.
00:43:51
Speaker
And this feels very much like my, it's,
00:43:55
Speaker
definitely feels like the big Lebowski thing where it was like a game.
00:44:00
Speaker
And then it just, I'm, I'm shocked that big Lebowski has been able to keep going and, and, and, and keep it in, in, in different versions of things.
00:44:13
Speaker
Cause it was the, Hey, we're going to do the, the pin, you know, the pin bot two point or, you know, all these different versions to raise money.
00:44:22
Speaker
because they ran out.
00:44:24
Speaker
Any company has standard operating costs.
00:44:28
Speaker
So just think of this in your home, you, every month you are paying your mortgage, you're paying your health insurance, you're paying electricity, you're paying all those things.
00:44:37
Speaker
And so those, you have to at least make that money to keep your home operational, right?
00:44:47
Speaker
And it,
00:44:48
Speaker
the only way for a business to do that is one, have angel investors who are okay with funding that cost, or you can do it by selling games.
00:44:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:59
Speaker
So they are in, and we have seen this with other companies to American pinball from my point of view is in the same category where they're not selling enough to qualify under self-sufficiency.
00:45:14
Speaker
And so there, there has to be someone who's paying those bills.
00:45:18
Speaker
Well, and I listened to Eclectic Gamers because Dennis gave some more insight as well.
00:45:22
Speaker
But these fathoms were all supposed to be done by the end of 2023.
00:45:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:27
Speaker
That's not a great sign.
00:45:28
Speaker
It just – here's the thing.
00:45:31
Speaker
We've talked about this before.
00:45:32
Speaker
We've talked about it with DeepRoot.
00:45:34
Speaker
We've talked about it with these startup companies.
00:45:37
Speaker
If you feel comfortable investing your money into these companies, it's like gambling.
00:45:42
Speaker
It literally is like gambling.
00:45:44
Speaker
It's a total risk.
00:45:45
Speaker
It's a total risk, yes.
00:45:46
Speaker
If you're fine putting your $1,000 on the table at the blackjack table, knowing that you're going to lose it, if you go in with the mindset like, I'm probably going to lose this, but if it's fulfilled or if I make my bet and I win, then awesome.
00:45:59
Speaker
Yeah.
Startup Pinball Companies: Risks & Comparisons
00:46:01
Speaker
And so I get the people that have got these products and whatnot, and they're not happy with the product itself.
00:46:10
Speaker
I totally get that.
00:46:11
Speaker
As far as,
00:46:14
Speaker
this becomes a big old mess.
00:46:15
Speaker
I'm not a lawyer.
00:46:16
Speaker
I don't, I don't construe anything I say as legal advice, but I do know like a thousand bucks in the world of our world nowadays, sadly is not a ton of money for an individual household.
00:46:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:27
Speaker
That's probably, that can be a paycheck for a low income person.
00:46:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:32
Speaker
But the fact of the matter is if you went to the court system and said, Hey, I gave this company a thousand dollars and I have not received my promise.
00:46:40
Speaker
You're going to have to go to small claims.
00:46:41
Speaker
You're not going to go to bigger court unless if you convinced everyone that gave deposits to do a class action, class action lawsuit, which it's probably not going to be enough money for them to even take a class action lawsuit across international lines.
00:46:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:55
Speaker
Good luck.
00:46:56
Speaker
And that's the other problem too.
00:46:57
Speaker
Yeah, this was all across international lines.
00:47:01
Speaker
And your biggest market's in America.
00:47:03
Speaker
So how does that all apply?
00:47:05
Speaker
Gather a country that we are friendly with.
00:47:08
Speaker
So I bet there's some working with there as well.
00:47:12
Speaker
But in the case of DeepRoot, at least they were in Texas.
00:47:17
Speaker
And SEC got involved.
00:47:19
Speaker
So the government was getting involved.
00:47:20
Speaker
And the money was... It might take a decade.
00:47:24
Speaker
In fairness...
00:47:25
Speaker
Haggis is not Deep Root.
00:47:28
Speaker
Correct.
00:47:28
Speaker
Deep Root was 100% a Ponzi scheme.
00:47:31
Speaker
And I do apologize.
00:47:32
Speaker
I shouldn't be comparing Deep Root to Haggis because Haggis has produced product.
00:47:35
Speaker
But you could argue this is closer to Zidware.
00:47:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:40
Speaker
Where it's... I think Papadook's eyes just got bigger than his stomach.
00:47:45
Speaker
His abilities did not match his ambition.
00:47:47
Speaker
Yes.
00:47:48
Speaker
That's a good way.
00:47:49
Speaker
And you could argue the same thing about any company who tried it.
00:47:52
Speaker
And you could argue with JJP at
00:47:56
Speaker
you know, when they transitioned from Wizard of Oz and they went to Hobbit, that their abilities did not match their ambition.
00:48:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:06
Speaker
However, on technology, there is a term that is always used.
00:48:11
Speaker
It's called the early adopter.
00:48:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:14
Speaker
So basically, if you want to be one of the first to get, you know, the I'm going way back, the first to get a DVD player, the first to get an iPhone, the first to get an Apple Watch, the first Apple Watch.
00:48:31
Speaker
I actually really wanted it.
00:48:33
Speaker
and I was an early adopter and it cost $1,000 for the, cause I got a nice band with it.
00:48:40
Speaker
And you could probably have bought the same watch for like 300 bucks.
00:48:44
Speaker
Okay.
00:48:45
Speaker
I was willing to pay that because I just wanted the, I actually wanted the band, but if you are willing to take that risk on an unproven company, I mean, Apple was a proven company.
00:48:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:57
Speaker
But if you're, if you're willing to take this risk on an unproven company who doesn't have a track record,
00:49:02
Speaker
who you're willing to say, hey, I trust you enough to give you some money, then there is some accountability on your part.
00:49:13
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:49:14
Speaker
There's some accountability to say that this was something that you either should have done more research on or you should have said, I'm going to wait.
00:49:26
Speaker
And like, I'm willing to take the risk or I'm willing to wait.
00:49:28
Speaker
And so don't, when you get burned on that, and then you claim that you have been wronged, there's something about me that says you, you didn't know it was a risk, right?
00:49:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:43
Speaker
And I think, and sadly, well, I was just saying, sadly,
00:49:47
Speaker
there were people who were going after, and I know this is, I'm just going to refer you to Zach's talk on the pinball show where he's the distributor and he had, you know, the, the pin side mob came after him and was talking about, well, they should do this, this, this.
00:50:06
Speaker
And the bottom line is,
00:50:08
Speaker
he actually had on there, hey, this is a non-refundable deposit that we anticipate the building is until X amount, until the end of 2024.
00:50:19
Speaker
Well, last time I checked, we're still in 2024.
00:50:23
Speaker
Yeah, halfway through.
00:50:25
Speaker
And so if people are complaining that they're not getting their product and there's a breach of contract, well, you're still in the window.
00:50:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:33
Speaker
Now, is it possible that
00:50:36
Speaker
You know, maybe Zach is feeling some sort of Zach announced that he's going to make good on these because he doesn't want the negative publicity.
00:50:48
Speaker
That's the bottom line is Zach's a business and he doesn't want the negative publicity.
00:50:53
Speaker
I would argue though, this isn't necessarily Zach's issue.
00:50:56
Speaker
This is a combination of an unrealistic expectation of
00:51:00
Speaker
by someone who bought or put, put down the down payment.
00:51:04
Speaker
And so I'll, I'll just refer you to that if you're really curious about that situation.
00:51:09
Speaker
But I just go back to, you know, Nick Lane has said it on Buffalo pinball so many times.
00:51:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:14
Speaker
Okay.
00:51:15
Speaker
No pinball machine is unobtainable.
00:51:20
Speaker
legitimately, unless you want pinball circus, okay, then build it yourself.
00:51:24
Speaker
But no machine is unavailable.
00:51:26
Speaker
If you, if there's a game that you're like, I really want that game, you can save up and buy it, but it's best to save up and buy an existing pinball machine.
00:51:36
Speaker
So if you are, if you're concerned about any sort of manufacturing promises and at this point in pinball, the empty promises of a cool looking game that is anticipated to be built,
00:51:48
Speaker
it does not hold much to me anymore.
00:51:52
Speaker
So save up your money, wait till it's made.
00:51:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:51:55
Speaker
You may spend a thousand dollars
Planetary Pinball's Licensing Role
00:51:58
Speaker
more than what you thought you were going to make if they ended up making a good.
00:52:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:02
Speaker
But for the most part, you're still giving like an interest free loan to these people to, for a possibility.
00:52:10
Speaker
And how long did Dutch pinball take to fulfill those orders?
00:52:13
Speaker
10 years.
00:52:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:15
Speaker
Okay.
00:52:17
Speaker
even in, I'm talking even the ones that fulfilled their orders, going back to big bang bar, the Gene Cunningham guys that they finally got their, their game, but you, you question at what cost.
00:52:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:30
Speaker
So if you're willing to, to wander in these unfamiliar territories, then you have to accept that there are risks associated with it.
00:52:39
Speaker
I hope that Haggis is able to recoup what's what was going on and to,
00:52:45
Speaker
reboot their brand.
00:52:47
Speaker
But it smells like the end of a company.
00:52:51
Speaker
That's what it feels like.
00:52:52
Speaker
It does.
00:52:53
Speaker
And I feel bad too for like, so, you know, Zach was also being accused of promoting Haggis because he has Martin Robbins with final round on the pinball network.
00:53:03
Speaker
And I'm like, it's the same situation with Steve Bowden when he worked at Deep Root.
00:53:07
Speaker
Steve had no control over what Robert Mueller and them was doing.
00:53:10
Speaker
Honestly, he's more of a victim than he is a, you know, a perpetrator.
00:53:15
Speaker
And I feel the same for like, I feel bad for Martin because I know he receives emails like, where's my game?
00:53:19
Speaker
What's, you know, what's going on?
00:53:20
Speaker
And he's like, I just work here.
00:53:21
Speaker
Like you need to talk to Damien.
00:53:24
Speaker
And so I just, it just, it's a crappy situation all around.
00:53:28
Speaker
No one wants to be in it.
00:53:30
Speaker
You know, from, from Damien to the people that bought the games.
00:53:33
Speaker
The other thought process I had too is does some of the blame of all of us kind of lay at the feet of planetary pinball?
00:53:41
Speaker
If you're not familiar with Planetary Pinball, they hold all the licensing for Bally Williams games.
00:53:47
Speaker
So if CGC makes Medieval Madness again, they renew the license through Planetary Pinball.
00:53:53
Speaker
The agreement is Planetary provides the parts to CGC to make the game, and then CGC makes the game.
00:54:00
Speaker
Or, like in the case of Pedretti, they've contracted through Planetary to make the games.
00:54:06
Speaker
It's actually not Pedretti that's contracted, but we'll talk about that here in a minute.
00:54:09
Speaker
But my point being is... Does Planetary manufacture the parts?
00:54:13
Speaker
So, yes, they make like... So Planetary manufactures the parts.
00:54:19
Speaker
They ship them to the assembly...
00:54:22
Speaker
area let's just say haggis now so they ship them to haggis to make the to assemble the game is that so they make william valley williams specific parts so okay like the cabinet is not going to be a valley williams specific part they'll have a cabinet maker make that that's why cgc was involved originally with stern and when they made the first medieval madnesses through stern churchill cabinet was the one that made those cabinets right
00:54:47
Speaker
And so, but like Rudy's head, that is a very specific part and planetary makes those parts.
00:54:56
Speaker
I don't know if they make like all the way down to the coil stop, you know what I'm saying?
00:54:59
Speaker
But I do know that they, they are obviously going to make.
00:55:02
Speaker
There are critical elements.
00:55:04
Speaker
There are critical elements.
00:55:05
Speaker
Okay.
00:55:05
Speaker
Yes.
00:55:06
Speaker
So that's how planetary works on that.
00:55:08
Speaker
So they hold the licenses and they make specific parts.
00:55:12
Speaker
I wonder if some of the, like I said, some of the blame is I'm not going to fault planetary for wine to have as many manufacturers as they can produce their product because the more they're making parts, the more that their games are being made, that's more money in their pocket.
00:55:26
Speaker
And so if you diversify, you only bring more cash in.
00:55:30
Speaker
Right.
00:55:31
Speaker
But did they jump the gun with haggis?
00:55:34
Speaker
They did see that Celts was produced and it was, it was a well-made game.
00:55:39
Speaker
So when you throw a Bally Williams title behind this company, it brings some legitimacy to that company as well.
00:55:46
Speaker
So I guess my point being is, does Planetary hold any responsibility for what is going on?
00:55:52
Speaker
Because they threw their weight behind Haggis maybe before they were ready to actually start
Pendretti's Manufacturing Capabilities
00:55:59
Speaker
running.
00:55:59
Speaker
They were barely crawling and Planetary saw them as walking, ready to run.
00:56:04
Speaker
What are your thoughts?
00:56:07
Speaker
It certainly is on the owner of planetary to maintain brand quality.
00:56:14
Speaker
Okay.
00:56:16
Speaker
So it, this is where I've, I've argued for years that, um, stern is by far the biggest volume manufacturer, uh, you know, of pinball out there.
00:56:30
Speaker
Like they, they're the ones who,
00:56:32
Speaker
make a solid, durable product that can go on location and they still have a relatively friendly entry price point.
00:56:42
Speaker
Okay.
00:56:43
Speaker
So it would be, if I were looking at it from planetary, I would actually just approach Stern and say, Hey, what about doing a, a joint venture here where, um,
00:56:57
Speaker
We can manufacture these games.
00:56:59
Speaker
You have the capacity to make a ton of these games.
00:57:05
Speaker
On a second line, there really shouldn't be anything other than quality control.
00:57:10
Speaker
It's not like we're developing anything.
00:57:12
Speaker
These are existing products.
00:57:14
Speaker
And Stern could make them 10 times faster than anybody else.
00:57:21
Speaker
And that's what I would have done.
00:57:24
Speaker
However, with businesses, a lot of times you try to leverage an advantage for you.
00:57:32
Speaker
And I would, this is me totally speculating, but theorizing that planetary approach Stern and said, would you be interested in this?
00:57:43
Speaker
Stern would say, yes.
00:57:45
Speaker
However, this is what we are going to pay you for the, you know, for the, your percentage, your license, whatever.
00:57:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:53
Speaker
And I'm assuming again, total speculation.
00:57:56
Speaker
I'm assuming planetary said we want a bigger cut.
00:58:00
Speaker
And they said, okay, well go look somewhere else.
00:58:04
Speaker
So they teamed up with CGC.
00:58:06
Speaker
CGC is giving them a bigger cut.
00:58:10
Speaker
We know that because the reason why the cactus Canyon S E plus comes with a topper is
00:58:19
Speaker
is because widely speculated that planetary takes a bigger cut off the extras than it does off the actual product.
00:58:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:32
Speaker
So that's a little bit of an end around to get a little better revenue stream for Chicago Game Company.
00:58:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:41
Speaker
But...
00:58:42
Speaker
I'm sure that we know Chicago gaming company is not the fastest manufacturer.
00:58:47
Speaker
They, they have quality for the most part.
00:58:50
Speaker
I know some people have had issues with our cactus Canyon, but they have not been able to do the volume.
00:58:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:57
Speaker
So planetary gets itchy and wants to do something else.
00:59:01
Speaker
And so they're looking for alternative options.
00:59:04
Speaker
And would that be haggis?
00:59:05
Speaker
Would that be spooky?
00:59:06
Speaker
Would that be America?
00:59:07
Speaker
You know, all these other people,
00:59:10
Speaker
But this is a little bit on planetary because you have the market leader as a potential.
00:59:18
Speaker
And again, I don't even know if Stern would be interested.
00:59:20
Speaker
This is me just looking at it from just a business analyst.
00:59:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:25
Speaker
But it would be in their best interest to approach Stern and say, hey, we love pinball.
00:59:31
Speaker
You love pinball.
00:59:32
Speaker
You can make a lot of pinball machines.
00:59:34
Speaker
We obviously did this because you made the medieval madness ones on your line.
00:59:40
Speaker
how about we do a joint venture again and we can get whitewater coming out we can do we can do uh well we and we'll get into funhouse but we can do we can do these other games that are coming out and we can do it faster but think about it medieval madness uh we're the remake is like eight years old now
01:00:04
Speaker
Is it now?
01:00:05
Speaker
It was originally released in 20, not 2019.
01:00:09
Speaker
2015 was the original release date of the very first run.
01:00:13
Speaker
Okay.
01:00:14
Speaker
Okay.
01:00:14
Speaker
So that's nine years.
01:00:15
Speaker
Almost a decade.
01:00:15
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:16
Speaker
Almost a decade for, if you look at Planetary and if you're looking at the four remake, that's four remakes of an existing game in almost 10 years.
01:00:28
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:30
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:31
Speaker
And with Medieval Madness, you can sell, you could sell 3000 Medieval Madness games today.
01:00:39
Speaker
It is still my kid's favorite game.
01:00:41
Speaker
It's still my kid's favorite game.
01:00:43
Speaker
Yep.
01:00:44
Speaker
So you can sell those.
01:00:46
Speaker
So the fact that they are partnering with companies that do not have the manufacturing capabilities is puzzling to me.
01:00:53
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:54
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:56
Speaker
Yeah, so that's why I think moving forward, we're going to see some changes up with planetary.
01:01:02
Speaker
I think they're going to be a little more hesitant with who they use.
01:01:07
Speaker
And we'll get into that here in a second with Pendretti.
01:01:09
Speaker
But I just, I agree with you.
01:01:11
Speaker
I think planetary needs to take a little bit of the blame with this Haggis situation because I don't know if Haggis was ready.
01:01:21
Speaker
Well, they've shown they weren't.
01:01:24
Speaker
And the product explains itself.
01:01:27
Speaker
They have shown that they are not up for the manufacturing.
01:01:30
Speaker
Well, not only that, but I think planetary should have pumped the brakes with Centaur if they could have.
01:01:35
Speaker
I don't know exactly the situation.
01:01:37
Speaker
Well, but then again, as again with Dutch, where they were like, hey, let's do, we're going to do Bride of Pinbot 2.0.
01:01:47
Speaker
As a full game.
01:01:48
Speaker
We're out of money and we're trying to raise some more money with some...
01:01:53
Speaker
It's a little bit of a shell game where they need some money to, because they don't have the startup capital and they're trying to supercharge the, the first one so they can make it up on the backend.
01:02:06
Speaker
And it almost always is a bad idea.
01:02:10
Speaker
So this leads me into, cause we've, we've been beating around this bush then, right?
01:02:14
Speaker
So has planetary made a mistake?
01:02:17
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:19
Speaker
Moving forward with, with Pendretti making fun houses with a company that's never made games before outside of 2.0 kits.
01:02:28
Speaker
Sure.
01:02:28
Speaker
They've never made, they are using a well-established manufacturer that's made pinball brother brothers game.
01:02:34
Speaker
So they're using the same manufacturer as pinball brothers, but are, do we have concerns as, as we have in the past with, with companies that are start, they're essentially startups at this point.
01:02:46
Speaker
What do you think?
01:02:47
Speaker
Yes.
01:02:49
Speaker
Okay.
01:02:49
Speaker
They are making a mistake.
01:02:51
Speaker
Well, no.
01:02:51
Speaker
Do we have concerns?
01:02:53
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:53
Speaker
Yeah, of course we have concerns.
01:02:55
Speaker
Okay.
01:02:56
Speaker
So you're doing similar things.
01:02:59
Speaker
Now, I will say that at least Pendretti has more manufacturing credentials.
01:03:08
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:09
Speaker
than haggis did okay and and you could argue that even like chicago gaming company i i still cannot figure out chicago gaming company why they you know on a on a 10 speed gearbox they never go above two i've never figured that out yeah okay um and so is it pot now you're going with
01:03:34
Speaker
Pinned ready, which is, um, Pinned ready is it's located right in the heart of pin wall manufacturing, right?
01:03:40
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:40
Speaker
Italy.
01:03:41
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:42
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:42
Speaker
Okay.
01:03:43
Speaker
So you're, so you're also dealing with outside of your typical options for the talent in pinball.
01:03:50
Speaker
It's all in Chicago, at least all the people who are, have a lot of history, you know, this, this intrinsic history of making pinball, it's all in Chicago.
01:03:59
Speaker
So yeah, you're, you're going outside of Chicago.
01:04:01
Speaker
You're going outside of the country again.
01:04:05
Speaker
Is it possible?
01:04:06
Speaker
Sure.
01:04:07
Speaker
And I, and I,
01:04:08
Speaker
Everything we say is true until someone proves us
Stern's Manufacturing Quality & Supply Chain
01:04:13
Speaker
wrong.
01:04:13
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:14
Speaker
This is all speculation as until someone proves us wrong.
01:04:17
Speaker
And so I'm hoping that PindReady is a better option and they can step up and manufacture to the level that we, we can expect.
01:04:27
Speaker
Well, and not only that, your shipping product from Reno, Nevada, right?
01:04:30
Speaker
to Italy to have it be made and manufactured to ship it back.
01:04:33
Speaker
I'm wondering if it's a pass-through.
01:04:35
Speaker
A lot of this stuff has to be made in China.
01:04:37
Speaker
So you're making it in China under their license and you're sending it.
01:04:41
Speaker
I doubt it goes to Reno and then goes.
01:04:43
Speaker
Gotcha.
01:04:43
Speaker
So you ship it directly to Italy.
01:04:45
Speaker
I doubt it.
01:04:45
Speaker
It's like a drop ship thing.
01:04:47
Speaker
I don't mean they're making these in Reno.
01:04:49
Speaker
I just, I don't know.
01:04:50
Speaker
That's why I'm... They've got the molds and stuff there.
01:04:52
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:53
Speaker
And is it possible that this can be...
01:05:00
Speaker
the startup that breaks the trends.
01:05:02
Speaker
Yeah, it is absolutely possible.
01:05:04
Speaker
And we know that the pinball company is involved in this.
01:05:09
Speaker
And they have a history of that.
01:05:11
Speaker
There's been public pictures shown of the CEO.
01:05:13
Speaker
Public pictures.
01:05:13
Speaker
This is not a behind the scenes.
01:05:14
Speaker
At Pindredity.
01:05:15
Speaker
Yes.
01:05:16
Speaker
So we know that they're involved.
01:05:19
Speaker
However, depending on how involved is a different question.
01:05:23
Speaker
So my understanding is because if you're familiar with Pinball Company, the owners originally bought...
01:05:30
Speaker
licenses for Domino's and Jetson and they had Spooky make these games.
01:05:34
Speaker
And my understanding is it's a very similar situation.
01:05:37
Speaker
It may not be a one-for-one, but a very similar situation that Pinball Company is doing with Planetary Pinball.
01:05:44
Speaker
Okay.
01:05:44
Speaker
So, and this is a pinball company has been around for years and years and years now.
01:05:49
Speaker
And it's a, it's a big company.
01:05:52
Speaker
Like pinball company is not, this is not a mom and pop shop.
01:05:55
Speaker
This is a big pinball distributor.
01:05:58
Speaker
And, and obviously they've, they've done this route before with spooky.
01:06:02
Speaker
So they know what they're looking for quality wise and building.
01:06:05
Speaker
My assumption is if the CEO was seen over in Italy with fun houses and the people making them, I'm assuming he's going to be – he has been to the manufacturing warehouse before.
01:06:15
Speaker
At least looking at it.
01:06:17
Speaker
Right.
01:06:17
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:18
Speaker
And so that's what I'm trying to get to is I think there's a little less stress once you realize that like –
01:06:26
Speaker
There's actually some people, there's some overwatchers on this one.
01:06:30
Speaker
It's not just Pendretti and making these games and shipping them out.
01:06:33
Speaker
There's a quality check that's going on with people that have done this before.
01:06:38
Speaker
Yeah, and when I say that, should we be concerned?
01:06:42
Speaker
And my statement was just yes.
01:06:45
Speaker
The only reason why I say yes is because we still don't know, right?
01:06:51
Speaker
We still have yet to have one of these companies
01:06:56
Speaker
that rises up and can rival Stern in production.
01:07:01
Speaker
And you could argue, okay, I intentionally left JJP out.
01:07:05
Speaker
JJP is probably solidly in that the second group, like there's Stern who's volume, volume, volume.
01:07:15
Speaker
And then you have a lot of solid manufacturers making a good amount.
01:07:19
Speaker
And really JJP is probably the top of that list.
01:07:24
Speaker
of making a solid game and still able to produce it in volume.
01:07:28
Speaker
Not the same volume, but you can produce it in volume.
01:07:30
Speaker
So that could be another option.
01:07:32
Speaker
But JJP seems to be more interested in kind of a slightly more expensive boutique game.
01:07:38
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:40
Speaker
That seems to be their route.
01:07:41
Speaker
So I'm hoping that this is finally that next level of, okay, we've learned from other people who just didn't have the manufacturing capabilities.
01:07:51
Speaker
And Pendretti does.
01:07:54
Speaker
And so that they, they do have a good price point, right?
01:07:57
Speaker
Yeah, they do.
01:07:59
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:59
Speaker
They have, they have a good price point.
01:08:01
Speaker
And so that, that certainly has of all of the startups that are making pinball machines, this has the most potential.
01:08:13
Speaker
I wouldn't say by far, but probably equivalent to like barrels of fun.
01:08:17
Speaker
Yeah.
01:08:18
Speaker
Like they, right now they seem to have been,
01:08:22
Speaker
they have the potential of being solid.
01:08:27
Speaker
Yeah, I agree.
01:08:29
Speaker
I'm excited for the future for Pendretti and what it holds with these, because Funhaus is the first in a pipeline, right?
01:08:38
Speaker
Yeah, it has to be.
01:08:39
Speaker
I assume if this goes well, and it's going super well, I assume that there's going to be more Bally Williams remakes coming out of them.
01:08:47
Speaker
Sure.
01:08:48
Speaker
So it's going to be interesting.
01:08:49
Speaker
The future is going to be – it's bright.
01:08:53
Speaker
But like we've – we've talked about this whole episode.
01:08:57
Speaker
It's kind of like a roller coaster of like you've got Stern that's very reliable.
01:09:01
Speaker
Like the biggest complaint is – and we hear it.
01:09:03
Speaker
I've heard it for the decade I've been in this hobby.
01:09:06
Speaker
Played Phil Dimpling.
01:09:07
Speaker
Well, you've got a metal ball in one.
01:09:08
Speaker
What are you going to do?
01:09:10
Speaker
Every – and actually –
01:09:12
Speaker
uh, George Gomez, who is a total superstar.
01:09:16
Speaker
Someone had posted that and he actually replied with a detailed analysis of it's a hardness rating.
01:09:24
Speaker
This is the hardness.
01:09:25
Speaker
It even like with mathematical stuff, you know, this is a ball, this is wood, this is what happens to every single pinball machine that's ever been made.
01:09:36
Speaker
And, you know, in, in,
01:09:39
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:39
Speaker
It, it just seems kind of funny.
01:09:41
Speaker
Like, okay, build them out of plastic then.
01:09:43
Speaker
And then they'll shatter as opposed to dimple.
01:09:45
Speaker
Cause if you know, it's, if you don't, there's something about being pliable and malleable versus shattering.
01:09:53
Speaker
Cause that's what happens to glass, right?
01:09:55
Speaker
You can make it out of glass.
01:09:56
Speaker
There will be no dimpling, but if the ball hits it wrong, it'll pulverize it.
01:10:01
Speaker
Exactly.
01:10:02
Speaker
Well, and honestly, lately that,
01:10:04
Speaker
granted Stern did have a playful issue there for a little bit.
01:10:07
Speaker
And they have, they have, and I know that ghosting.
01:10:11
Speaker
Yeah.
01:10:11
Speaker
Yeah.
01:10:11
Speaker
And I know Nick Lane had quite the, the rant on Buffalo and more power to him, dude.
01:10:17
Speaker
That would,
01:10:18
Speaker
honestly it's spot on so a lot of us were thinking as a consumer is like you shouldn't be just saying out playfield blanks you should be saying us out populate playfields yeah but stern doesn't seem to be having playfield issues anymore the biggest complaint right now is a coil stop and honestly if anything's gonna be breaking in a pinball machine you can fix a coil stop yeah it's two screws you pull the old or not you put the new one in and it's got to be like
01:10:42
Speaker
Because when we went to Stern in May, they said everything that they produce, they have two suppliers for.
01:10:48
Speaker
So that way, if one can't provide the other one, you know, and all that jazz.
01:10:53
Speaker
I half wonder with the coil stops if they bought like a billion of them, considering like every freaking Stern game at least has five between the auto launcher, the at least two to three flippers.
01:11:05
Speaker
And then there's going to be some coil mechs in there as well.
01:11:07
Speaker
So it's like.
01:11:08
Speaker
Every game at least has four to five.
01:11:09
Speaker
And then you're producing thousands of these games.
01:11:11
Speaker
Like, I wonder if Stern's just like, if you give us, if we sell it by a billion of them, you give us a discount.
01:11:16
Speaker
And they're like, well, we can't throw all these away.
01:11:19
Speaker
We know that they're not like the best coil stops in the world.
01:11:21
Speaker
Yeah, but they're not terrible, right?
01:11:23
Speaker
They still function for the most part.
01:11:25
Speaker
And really in a home environment, okay, I don't get the same sort of wear and tear on my machines as a location does.
01:11:33
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:34
Speaker
I don't.
01:11:35
Speaker
I play maybe 50 to 100 games a month.
01:11:39
Speaker
You know, it's not the same as location.
01:11:41
Speaker
And that's all of them.
01:11:42
Speaker
That's all 10 of my games inside.
01:11:45
Speaker
But my point being is like, we've talked about like, if you want quality and you want reassurance, you're going to get your game.
01:11:50
Speaker
You're probably going to go with Stern.
01:11:52
Speaker
But we've also went down the valleys of like, you are gambling with these startup companies.
01:11:57
Speaker
I think there's less, a lot less gamble with Pendretti from hearing behind the scenes.
01:12:01
Speaker
And I'm going to leave that up to pinball company if they want to talk about that stuff.
01:12:06
Speaker
It's all positive.
01:12:08
Speaker
But like I said, I'm not the information person to be leaking that.
01:12:12
Speaker
I'm just going off of what we've seen publicly and commenting on it.
01:12:16
Speaker
And then we've talked about haggis where it's like, you know, it is what it is.
01:12:20
Speaker
And, uh,
01:12:22
Speaker
I don't know.
01:12:22
Speaker
Pinball is a very fascinating world overall.
01:12:26
Speaker
I think if you go into the mindset, like you were saying, Scott, earlier, if there's any game that's already been produced, may start going used first if you're really worried about or concerned about receiving your game.
01:12:39
Speaker
I know that when we were going through the deep root thing,
01:12:46
Speaker
we did have a gentleman that messaged out to us and explained his situation.
01:12:49
Speaker
He said, I came into a, a decent amount of money.
01:12:53
Speaker
I thought Rosa looked really good.
01:12:56
Speaker
I put down my deposit knowing I could probably lose this, but I wanted to take that risk because this was something I wanted to support and invest in and hopefully,
01:13:04
Speaker
If I get the game, great.
01:13:06
Speaker
If not, I think that's the mindset you need to go in.
01:13:07
Speaker
If you're going to go with these startup companies, unless they're proving themselves like barrels of fun and Pendretti, who's already shipping out fun houses.
01:13:15
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:16
Speaker
So to be fair, we listed a lot, at least I listed a lot of people.
01:13:20
Speaker
who have started and had significant issues.
01:13:24
Speaker
Okay.
01:13:25
Speaker
I, I will emphasize that pin ready and barrels of fun seem to have the most positive potential of any company that we've seen in the last 15 years.
01:13:37
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:38
Speaker
And you know, in, in that 15 years does not count JJP because obviously JJP is a, is a real company.
01:13:44
Speaker
It seems like their trajectory is on the rise.
01:13:48
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:49
Speaker
So I would be more likely to buy those than I would of the other ones.
01:13:54
Speaker
I agree.
01:13:55
Speaker
So I guess that's our roundabout message.
01:13:57
Speaker
If you take something away from this episode today, no, it'd be.
01:14:02
Speaker
Okay.
01:14:02
Speaker
If you take something away from the message is like, if you want a pinball machine, go buy one that is existing.
01:14:08
Speaker
If you have disposable income and you are willing to take a risk on a potential theme or company that you are emotionally connected to, then go ahead.
01:14:21
Speaker
However, realize that there is a risk involved and some companies are riskier than others.
01:14:28
Speaker
Yeah.
01:14:29
Speaker
And then there's some companies that help kind of alleviate that risk, like our friends Zach and Nicole, many at flipping out when they don't even need to be taking that risk.
01:14:37
Speaker
Right.
01:14:37
Speaker
So, and really, I feel, I feel bad for Zach and Nicole for what they have gone through.
01:14:44
Speaker
Zach is because he's a business.
01:14:46
Speaker
He's going to try to take a risk on some of these companies that you don't know how it's going to pan out.
01:14:55
Speaker
But with that risk, I think some people mistake every company as the same guarantee that Stern or JJP would make.
01:15:04
Speaker
And that's just not the case.
01:15:05
Speaker
And that's, you know, it's hard.
01:15:09
Speaker
It's hard to thread that needle.
Erica's Pinball Journey on Social Media
01:15:11
Speaker
Yep.
01:15:12
Speaker
Okay, I want to wrap this up with our content creator of the episode, Erica's Pinball Journey.
01:15:17
Speaker
If you've not checked out Erica, she's on Instagram.
01:15:20
Speaker
She's on TikTok.
01:15:21
Speaker
I want to say she's on YouTube as well.
01:15:23
Speaker
Amazing videos.
01:15:24
Speaker
Her background is actually in film.
01:15:28
Speaker
The way that we got to meet her was, I think it was Expo last year when she talked to me.
01:15:32
Speaker
It may have been before that.
01:15:33
Speaker
I met her at the Stern tour, but you saw her at Expo the year before.
01:15:37
Speaker
The content creator that Colin from kineticist was nice enough to set up at expo.
01:15:43
Speaker
I got to meet her there and she said that she very much appreciated our episode with the directors of the Roger Sharp movie, because that gave some insight behind the scenes into an industry she works in.
01:15:53
Speaker
She just loved it.
01:15:55
Speaker
Her episodes, her little videos and stuff are fantastic.
01:15:59
Speaker
Seriously, go check her out, go subscribe.
01:16:01
Speaker
Definitely worth your time.
01:16:03
Speaker
And I like it because it's a different view on pinball.
01:16:06
Speaker
I'm not going to lie.
01:16:07
Speaker
Like a lot of these podcasts, we kind of are talking heads and we talk the news or we talk, you know, yada, yada.
01:16:12
Speaker
Erica's going from this angle of like pizzazz and like showing off pinball, but like almost like a meme creator, essentially.
01:16:21
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
01:16:21
Speaker
Like short clips of wonderful stuff.
01:16:24
Speaker
So if you haven't checked her out, Erica's pinball journey.
Silver Ball Swag & Product Highlights
01:16:27
Speaker
Scott, if you're going to buy our product, where are you going?
01:16:29
Speaker
Yeah.
01:16:30
Speaker
Uh, you can go to silver bar swag.
01:16:32
Speaker
Uh, we have some awesome shoes and I wore my shoes, uh, just the other day.
01:16:36
Speaker
Uh, they're fun.
01:16:37
Speaker
Uh, if you, if you want one of our original hats, you can contact us too.
01:16:41
Speaker
We can figure that out, but we, we have some hats there too, including the, uh, the loser kid pinball, um, in an awesome font that looks very similar to another one.
01:16:52
Speaker
Yes.
01:16:52
Speaker
Yes.
01:16:53
Speaker
So, and then, uh, I just wanted to show off my shirt I'm wearing.
01:16:56
Speaker
Oh, wow.
01:16:57
Speaker
Uh,
01:16:59
Speaker
if you see that, if you're on YouTube, it is the original, it says at the very bottom, and you can't read it, but it says insert Dennis' face here.
01:17:06
Speaker
This was from the original This Week in Pinball podcast with Zach and Dennis, and yeah, it's still one of my favorites, because it's got a bunch of their quotes on it, trending up, bye-bye-bye, four-inch creasal clone, just stuff like that.
01:17:22
Speaker
I think they even touted it as limited edition or whatnot.
01:17:25
Speaker
They didn't sell a ton of them, but
01:17:27
Speaker
Hey, everything's limited eventually.
01:17:29
Speaker
But it was also from, was it from Silver Ball Swag?
01:17:32
Speaker
Yeah, because Silver Ball Swag was combined with This Week in Pinball.
01:17:35
Speaker
So yeah, this is a Silver Ball Swag shirt.
01:17:37
Speaker
You can't get it anymore, but...
01:17:39
Speaker
like I said, if you want to, like Scott said, if you want to get our stuff, silverballswag.com slash loser kid.
Pinball Expo Announcements & Hotel Deals
01:17:45
Speaker
Also, if you want to hit us up on any of the socials, Facebook, Instagram X, uh, threads.
01:17:51
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:51
Speaker
I, um, it's going to be at loser kid pinball.
01:17:56
Speaker
Uh, same with our YouTube.
01:17:57
Speaker
So, uh, if you haven't subscribed, go ahead, do so comment, yada, yada, yada.
01:18:02
Speaker
We appreciate a lot of the interaction we've been receiving lately.
01:18:04
Speaker
And it's amazing.
01:18:07
Speaker
We've been doing this for over five years now.
01:18:09
Speaker
And it just seems like every year we go up a step of just the interaction and whatnot.
01:18:15
Speaker
Thank you again.
01:18:16
Speaker
If you haven't gotten your room yet for Pinball Expo, I was just told two days ago they opened up a new block.
01:18:23
Speaker
So there are some limited amount of hotel rooms available in the conference center right now.
01:18:28
Speaker
That's nice.
01:18:29
Speaker
So you better jump on that as you hear this.
01:18:31
Speaker
Seriously, run to Pinball Expo's website and you can click on it and you get the group rate and everything.
01:18:37
Speaker
So do that before they're all gone.
01:18:40
Speaker
Anything out, Scott, before we leave?
01:18:42
Speaker
You know, I'm interested.
01:18:44
Speaker
Let me know if you are buying the black and white Godzilla and if you're interested in the Godzilla accessories because they said there's going to be special black and white accessories as well.
01:18:52
Speaker
So anyway, play pinball, be good to each other, and thanks for listening.