Transcript
Speaker: with the coachman D20 Radio. at Your game is rolled.
Speaker: How will We Roll Gaming is dedicated to spreading enjoyment of great role-playing games. We hope to bring you insights into games you may not have played, tips to be a better game master and player, and share us stories of momentous events at our tables.
Speaker: Every game is a new story to tell. I'm Daryl. I'm Nick. And here's Robert. And this is How We Roll.
Speaker: Welcome back to the How We Roll Gaming Podcast, everybody. I hope you are doing well. Robert, Nick, my friends. Welcome. Welcome back. Daryl, my good friend. Glad to be back. Greetings, exalted one. now It's spooky season.
Speaker: Yes. It's scary season. That's what we're going to talk about today. But I hope you two have been doing well that it hasn't been too spooky for you.
Speaker: Not just yet, but Halloween's coming up, so we got some time. i Yeah, I'm going to spend half of Halloween on a plane coming back home.
Speaker: Yeah. hi I recently rewatched my guilty pleasure or horror film, Freddy vs. Jason. That's not a bad one. it fine i was ah I was watching the 78 Halloween the other night. I just love that one. It made me want to watch 2018, but I'm not going to have a chance before I leave for my trip because I'm going to need to watch the next episodes of Clone Wars to record casual nerdity before I leave for my trip.
Speaker: Oh, you're right. yeah Yeah, true. So I might have to... Because we've we've we're we're now down to Clone Wars finales out of three. Yep. I i suppose, you know, i I'll be able to watch some stuff on my Plex server while I'm there. I guess for the plane, I'll have to download something or just listen to a book.
Speaker: Read a book. Oh, I recommend if you haven't listened to Mel Brooks' Devolucin, that's really good. mean Max Brooks? Max Brooks! i i It's on my list, but i I really need to finish the final High Republic book first.
Speaker: that's I really need to finish it. Otherwise, how are you going to finish out that that high High Republic source book that we want? Yes. I have been working on Trials of the Jedi since last December. Oh.
Speaker: And I just haven't had time. Nick, I've started picking it back up and i I nearly cried because there was a major death and I didn't want that person to die. That's the High Republic, Darryl. That's my experience with it. no Nick, Nick.
Speaker: ah i'm i'm going to I'm spoiling this one for you, Nick. Because you're so far behind. You're so far behind. I'm gonna i'm going to spoil it. Buckets of blood. No. yeah Torben Buck.
Speaker: No! Yes. 99999. Yeah. yeah And, the oh, it it was it was rough. It was a rough one. Don't quit the podcast, Nick. Now that we are in the proper mood for scary season, before we dive in let's ah let's talk about another show on the network before we do it.
Speaker: So if you can't get enough tabletop RPGs, well, check out Me and Steve Talk RPGs, another great show on the D20 radio network. Game, talk, interviews, hot takes, actual plays, they cover it all.
Speaker: Find Me and Steve Talk RPGs wherever you get your podcasts. More RPGs, more opinions, more reasons to avoid doing your actual work. Yep, and I was talking to...
Speaker: to Steve, not Steve, but Steve. Oh, Steve. The other day. And we we were... Beginning to finally coordinate having ah having Steve come on our show.
Speaker: ah Robert, you and I have both been on his show a few times separately and together. Nick ah fell asleep ah the first time were going be on. and But yeah, we we are gonna we're finally going to get Steve on.
Speaker: And I'll be awake for that one. Right? you better. Yeah. And, you know, spoilers, i already know what the title of that episode is going to be.
Speaker: It's going to be We and Steve Talk RPGs. yeah ah And Nick is Awake This Time. Yes, that will be the subtitle.
Speaker: And Nick is Awake This Time. Perfect. So, sub rest are we are we ready to get into spooky season stuff? More spooky stuff. We talked about zombies last time.
Speaker: Yes. So now let's delve into things more worse than The Walking Dead. Yes, let's talk about both ghosts and goblins.
Speaker: But we're going to be talking about what makes horror RPGs work this time out. And I'm going to kick things off just by asking the two of you, what do you want out of a horror RPG when you're playing It's actually interesting because I mostly run horror RPGs.
Speaker: I think by definition, before even starting running RPGs for you guys, I played in horror RPGs. beforehand, you guys are the first ones have actually run them, so honestly, ah I think ah Robert, you go first while I think on that, because that usually I've thought of the running part.
Speaker: Fair, fair. And that works for me because other than our Delta Green one, I've never felt confident in being a Game Master when it comes to horror, because I don't feel I can pull off what I would want or what anybody else want. I just don't think I have that in me at this time. But when I think of horror RPGs, it has to be established that i my character or the characters are at best on the back foot or at worst have no real control of their situation.
Speaker: Like, sure, they had they can do their own actions, their own things. There's always a sense of helplessness in there that no matter what you do or how confident you think you are, the situation is always in its favor, whatever it is. And sometimes you don't even know what the it is. That's a good explanation for it. Again, I've always felt like horror is based on the idea of... My favorite example is from...
Speaker: reading Stephen King's ah writing book about writing. it says like His example is being like, horror isn't like, oh, you open the door and there's a 10 foot tall cockroach behind it.
Speaker: Horror is, there's a knock at the door and you don't know how big the cockroach is behind it. Yes, horror is an inverse on the usual take when it comes to tabletop RPGs.
Speaker: this The story advances as your characters have the agency. They're usually the ones that act when it comes to horror RPGs. Like a horrific situation from a D&D perspective is there's an ancient dragon on the other side of the room.
Speaker: Correct. But usually you're the one that walks into the lair when it comes to horror RPGs. You know that there's there's most likely you've heard or or at least know that there is going to be a big bad and in the next room.
Speaker: Yes, horror RPGs usually puts your people on a reactive mindset. And for a lot of people, being reactive to everything is unsettling because everyone wants to be able to have that control or agency in their life. Yeah, that you're in a reactive situation and most people don't like to have their agency taken away, that they have to be the ones...
Speaker: to do the second action against someone's forward action. And it is sort of the inverse of role-playing games, which makes it more horrifying. you You create these characters that are sort of like avatars of like your ideal or different self that can do what you can't do normally.
Speaker: So making one that is also now on the back foot is kind of... That's a good point because you're right. Usually when it comes to an RPG, you're that fantasy mythical, like maybe Paladin or Rogue or Wizard.
Speaker: Or if you're in like Cyberpunk, you're a chromed up Solo or Netrunner. When it comes to horror. Mandalorian a Jedi. Yeah, but but in horror, nine times out of ten, you're just a human.
Speaker: Like you're an archaeologist or a librarian. or a police officer. I'm a librarian! Yeah, basically, Orr likes to basically say, okay, yeah, here's the horrible thing, but you're you.
Speaker: Just yourself. Or you're you're a normal person. Yeah, you're a normal person who now has to deal with this otherworldly thing. It's, again, that that's, I equate it to, like, again, I don't understand roller coasters. I am terrified them to the point that I don't enjoy them.
Speaker: But I know friends that enjoy them. that are like They say, like yeah, it's the nature of, like, I'm out of control and I'm in this situation. like, real life? i don't like that.
Speaker: But I understand it when I watch a horror film or ah read a horror story. It's like, okay, I am out of my comfort zone, but I'm in control. RPGs have that element, but also verves onto that rollercoaster element. Exactly.
Speaker: Because since it's an RPG, you can't fully take away that's that sense of control because you can always walk away from the table. But it gets you as close as it can if you let it.
Speaker: Yeah. and that's a ah that's sort of the, you want people to skirt to that edge for that moment. And the you you get a similar sort of of visceral thrill and adrenaline rush that you do from watching a horror movie. ah there It's similar.
Speaker: It's similar experience, but different enough in that in a horror movie, you are a passive observer, but you still experience the scares. You still get creeped out by what's going on.
Speaker: Whereas in an RPG, you're more active than passive. You're making decisions for your character to try to let that character survive the scenario.
Speaker: I will say that in this case, Where usually I'd say like the concept of GMing is a bit like a give and take a 60 40 to 50 50 experience.
Speaker: If you want to make horror, the GM has to be like really giving a lot more energy. that The GM has be giving more energy and it's a situation where you do.
Speaker: with players' buy-in, of course, you do have to up the vibe of, for want of a better term, GM versus players.
Speaker: Yes. Yes. It's still a cooperative experience in that you're all trying to tell a story and play the game for everyone to have fun.
Speaker: But in this case, the vibes have to be like firmly established. Yes, and you yeah and nine times out of ten, you're going to say, there is a very good chance your character is going to die.
Speaker: Yeah, or at the very least, character death is not off the table. there There is no plot armor in a horror RPG. Yeah, the plot armor goes on to the creature.
Speaker: Yeah. Most likely. The idea is mostly like you have to, and again, that's also in terms of the the GM preparation. You have to be like, I need to envelop the characters into this scene. And there's also so a little bit of like metagaming. It's like trying to cut down on like the regular like out of character banter in order to help create a more cohesive scene.
Speaker: And Robert jumping back to something you kind of said too you you saying you're you that's one of the things and we have it penciled in for a future episode to talk about the system in depth that's one of the things that I like about it's not entirely horror but the end of the world RPG. Yes.
Speaker: Because that is that literally is make yourself. Yes that is the conceit. I'd say that straddles the edge of horror, because you could go that yeah way, or you could go tropey.
Speaker: Yeah, it is depends in part on on which of the scenarios you're playing, or if you're creating your own. Exactly.
Speaker: As well as the team, The documentation, all this stuff. Yeah. yeah But it's it's something to think about. But that something that I... that i I do kind of like there, you as I was, before we sat down to record this evening, you know, I was having one of those, ah you know, idle, you shower thoughts moments, if you will, where I was trying to, my mind was, know, thinking about the episode and also just horror movies and TV shows in general. And I was thinking, what would it
Speaker: how well would an established movie IP like, say, I'm not going to say Scream because there is a bit of a meta narrative there where main characters are the killers.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. And you could still pull that off. You could pull that off. but But something more like a Halloween or an Evil Dead or something like that.
Speaker: I actually was thinking about that in the idea of... I was thinking up ideas just out of the lark for like a a game of ah Everybody is John. but in like Everyone is Michael?
Speaker: Oh no, Everyone is John, but you're just... the the jock character in at Crystal Lake on Friday the 13th?
Speaker: You know, I've never watched a Friday of the 13th movie. Am I dealing with the mother or the Jason? That's a good question. if you're If you're dealing with the mother, can it be the Linda Cardellini version on the new TV series, please?
Speaker: Wait, so you play the mother? Yes, Linda Cardellini is playing the mother on Crystal Lake. I didn't that. I didn't know ah that either. I didn't want to check it out, but I guess we're going to check it out.
Speaker: The more you know. The more you know. But I was going to be like... Either way, it'd be your classic, everyone is John, but it's just like, yeah you're the jock guy at ah the last last Friday before the kids come home.
Speaker: come over and he's trying to be like Jock goals. And in the back is Jason Boring. Now, i I will say that, Nick, I know you were there for this. Robert, I don't remember if you were or not. um After we saw Evil Dead burn for Casual Nerdity, we were at a game at whatever session we were playing at your house that weekend, Nick. And I started talking and It could be fun to do an Evil Dead game.
Speaker: i And we even talked about doing it as an end of the world thing. yeah And the more I thought about it, the more i was like, no. Because of how cruel the Deadites are, I would not be comfortable, especially if it was the end of the world,
Speaker: Yes, because it's doing that kind of thing with all of you. I would not be comfortable. Yeah, I would not be comfortable in you know, like you I am going to use a humorous example for the very reason that I wouldn't be comfortable running the game.
Speaker: I would not be comfortable you pulling out a whole, Nick, it's a squirrel at the door. you know Squirrels ate your mother. you know That kind of thing.
Speaker: I would not be comfortable piling on all of my friends' insecurities and there are surprise how things like that.
Speaker: how tan that is, I would have gone way, way worse with me. Yeah, I don't think I was there for that discussion, but yeah, something like that probably wouldn't be a good idea. That wouldn't be fun because it would be using... You're basically using Bales and Hardline as a campaign material.
Speaker: Yeah. that And Nick, I use that specifically said, like I said, I use that as an example because it's not a harmful... example. It's something that we tease about.
Speaker: Yeah, he was doing that as a tame example. Yeah. bad example would be like if I used Stephanie's clown issue against her. Oh, yeah. oh yeah like I learned that's a good point to bring up about horror in general and this is a good time to bring up the veils and stuff for like horror is not for everyone.
Speaker: No, it's not. and Certain horrors are meant to be discussed. Yes, and horror RPGs are ones where you especially, you always should have one, but you should especially have a Session Zero if you're doing a horror RPG.
Speaker: Because depending on your group, if you know these people like really well, then you know what they're unsettled by. You know what they're afraid of. And if you aren't careful, you can make a horse an RPG horror story just by deciding, i'm going to use this knowledge against them. i yeah like i yeah thought I knew Steph had mentioned before in passing about like clowns.
Speaker: CSN doesn't like clowns. It wasn't until our first session of of Impossible Landscapes. Nick, I was sitting over there doing this.
Speaker: I was like, oh! And to be fair, was part of the material, you weren't actively making it up yourself.
Speaker: I didn't understand how intense that was. Had I known, I would have adjusted the official material. And after that, I dropped that.
Speaker: For the most part, I will not reintroduce it in future installments that I run. Although, ah I do find this rather entertaining.
Speaker: I can say this. Married 25 years. She hates clowns. One of her favorite characters is Harley Quinn. That's just the mind saying, that ain't a clown. I mean, she likes character, so... And she specifically likes the more clown Harley Quinn, not the new 52 Harley Quinn. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah Yeah, she likes classic animated series Harley Quinn. Classic red and black suit. Yeah. Which is more clown based.
Speaker: Yep. Yes, that's a big thing. else The human mind is an amazing thing. Yeah, definitely. We even did this. ah You've done the the you created your character for our upcoming campaign. Shh.
Speaker: Yes, we did, Daryl explained the Section Zero. Yes. and out yeah and yeah And we haven't announced yet what it's going to be, Nick, so tread very carefully, or I'm going to have to edit this whole section out.
Speaker: Yes. But it is a it is a horror campaign. And that's it. Yes, and we're going to leave it at that. But, yeah, that does require an extensive Section Zero that there we all...
Speaker: Went through yeah guidelines by and discussing with. Yes, and then yeah go ahead. and Keep going. Going back to horror RPGs, what's really good about it is that of all the genres, horror is surprisingly versatile once you actually delve in and think about it.
Speaker: There's the classic slasher horror. There's the environmental horror. There's the predator horror, where you're just like in the woods and an animal's hunting you, and you just don't have the type of civilization that you would expect.
Speaker: There, as Daryl is advertising, there's existential horror. Cosmic horror. Cosmic horror. There's body horror. Psychological horror.
Speaker: Yeah, if anyone's... So, you know, more... Like, Cyberpunk could be horror to a degree. And the thing about, like, maybe you're losing control of your body, yes.
Speaker: yeah There's ways to make but a lot of horror. You know, this has been running in the back of my mind since I mentioned it and said, nah, Scream wouldn't work. Yeah, Scream would work.
Speaker: Scream would work. ah you You would use the Free League Year Zero engine, and you would borrow secret agendas from Alien, and one or more players, depending on the size of the group, of course, that would make it has a secret agenda that you are the killer.
Speaker: You are one of the killers. I mean, it's basically RPG werewolf. Basically, yeah. and That's another one, supernatural horror in the sense of vampires and werewolves and zombies.
Speaker: Personally, I'd say things like those are horror entities. I wouldn't call them genres. like You could have a story about vampires that aren't horrific.
Speaker: You could have a story about werewolves that aren't that aren't scary but are are tragic. Well, by that logic, you could have any genre be something else. I mean, South Park did their whole Cthulhu bit, didn't they?
Speaker: and That's true. You can make Cthulhu comedic and you can make it feeling, hello, my darling, hello, my MacTown gal. Yeah, i I now think it at some point around Halloween,
Speaker: I'm going to have to do a scream game for you guys. They said you were going to be gone most of Halloween, or at least after. Well, I said sometime. not It's not going to be this year. Yeah.
Speaker: It is absolutely not going to be this year. Daryl, which one are you guys going to call on the phone and say, what's your favorite scary movie? Well, Nick, you would not have the secret.
Speaker: ah You would be the Randy. Just don't give me horror trivia. I'd fail and die. That's how you die. That's how you die the opening of the screen movie.
Speaker: Yeah, that's how the first movie opened. ah Yeah, but she at least got some answers right. I don't think I'd get any answers right. see got Actually, you got the one right.
Speaker: you and The one that she failed on was saying, who was the killer in Friday the 13th? She's like, Stacy Voorhees. It's like, no, it was Pamela Voorhees in the first one.
Speaker: So you want to survive. The Linda Cardellini one. But yeah, they you do have that fine line to walk about making sure that ah that you're not crossing lines with your players. and yeah so Especially if you're going into the franchise, like,
Speaker: if ah Alien is is a game that we've talked about a lot. And I feel like if anyone wants to play Alien, they have to expect certain things. Body horror, some uncomfortable themes, and gore.
Speaker: And corporate exploitation. Yep. yeah If those aren't on your team, if you don't, again, I feel those are expected and the from the term Alien franchise, but that's part of the session zero, then that's your last chance to leave.
Speaker: Yes, and there's actually another thing that brings that up, especially in Aliens and some other ones, is that what what makes horror also work is that in some universes, or if the players agree, they may be in a group, but they may may not be working as a group. We've brought up what Regen does. There's usually, in our session zeros, we designate that PvP will be a thing because in a real horror movie, it's the you don't have to outrun the bear, you just have to outrun the person next to you. and that i mean like there's There's not an expectation of the friendship is magic trope.
Speaker: I still remember Daryl complained to Nick that i and another player were in an Aliens game and we collaborated and got out and he's like, Nick, you did it wrong. They worked together.
Speaker: guess it's like I didn't do it wrong. They did it wrong. trusted each other. and even then, the end result was i like you was still ah like a betrayal, was like but it was like more of an exoscental betrayal.
Speaker: We were a military group. Brothers. For the alien RPG, that's one of the things that I like about it, especially for cinematic play. Yes. The system very handily replicates the paranoia and fear of the alien movies that you death could be right around the corner.
Speaker: And it is usually some form of unthinking killing machine. Because i I love the... to we We talked about this in both episodes when we looked at first edition and evolved edition.
Speaker: I love that the aliens don't consider their attacks. their Their actions are random on a one through six table.
Speaker: It can't be... They're going to either... take you out or take you with them or just give you a weird scare and leave and be like, yeah, I'll be back guess what? That still impacts you. And honestly, we haven't had this problem because of the campaigns we played, but if you did an alien session and just never gave the characters a motion tracker, that increased the tension tenfold. It was like, ah yep you don't have one, you don't know.
Speaker: Especially in Evolve. Evolve fixed the problem with... The motion of the tracker was way more powerful in... Yes, it was. if evolved yeah We could do the motion tracker and then just set up auto-overwatch on everything. Evolve isn't... Gave it a bit more... Gave it some power restrictions and restricted how many you yeah had in like sort of initial... Some movements.
Speaker: So they... really helps with that, and with better map maps makes it a lot more tense. Yes. And I just... I really dig how Alien does all of that. The first time that I actually got to sit down and play it, I fell in love with the system. i was like, this is a wonderful horror system.
Speaker: I think, good again, we we discussed it and evolved. They took everything that was good, made it better, but also... Even scarier. Yeah. Yeah, and i i I would like at some point I need to sit down and look at some of the evolved edition elements that I might want to port over to Walking Dead since it's the same base system.
Speaker: Ooh. I was not sure if that was going work. No, it did work i could It could. In fact, I could see it working and I'm like, oh. go to be Oh, wait.
Speaker: Oh, no. based on Since we aren't playing regular Walking Dead. No, we still have regular Walking Dead. We just now have Rage Zombie Walking Dead, too. Or Running Dead.
Speaker: Yep. Doesn't mean we don't have the Crawling Dead they can get in the fucking vents. Walking Dead has established a few things. There's the regular walkers. There's the ones called lurkers, where they won't move until you get right on top of them and they'll lurch up.
Speaker: We have runners now. They'll definitely be climbers and maybe jumpers. Got a lot of options. Yep. Okay, you have some things you can actually... ah Again, thank you, Dante.
Speaker: I am going to... Alright, I'm going to come in with six new characters now? No. you know I'll be just to be safe.
Speaker: Now, if we look at something more... I'll make a groove in the couch. If we look at something more cosmic or existential, like Delta Green, I love what it does to that quick start that I ran for all of you, which was the first Delta Green that I had played.
Speaker: Which, going back to me and Steve, Steve ran that for and Stephanie and some others. Very strong, but I'd say in terms of, I'll be honest, I guess. It's a good starter adventure.
Speaker: As an an explanation of cosmic horror, it's a good beginner. Cosmic horror has a lot of primer to actually understand how terrifying it is.
Speaker: Yes, especially in a Delta Green where you're the government agency hidden in the government agency that knows the truth that you're not fighting a war you're going to win. it The book says clearly, if these things come back, humanity is done.
Speaker: Basically. So all Delta Green is doing is kicking that can down the road a little bit more. you the The idea of cosmic horror is, again, it goes back to Call of Cthulhu, which inspired Delta Green, but the whole idea is like, this is a fight that you can't win. You yeah you might as well fight sun exploding.
Speaker: the sun exploding Yeah, you're fighting because that's what you're doing. That's just what you do. You fight because you want to fight.
Speaker: And if you don't, it's going to get worse, but it's it's inevitable. Yes. So you know that we we love us, our media examples?
Speaker: Yeah. which you say Would you say that Cabin in the Woods is a Delta Green or Call of Cthulhu? Yeah. Yes, in a sense, definitely.
Speaker: yeah they they Eventually... They accepted the idea of, like, we can't stop this. We can appease the old gods. base ah Spoilers for a Cabin in the Woods.
Speaker: Watch it. It's really good. But that's the whole thing. It's like, they are basically using horror tropes across the globe in order to... appease the great old ones beneath the world so they do not wake up with enough blood and gore from certain archetypal people.
Speaker: Yeah, and it's the laugh where I'm going to screen motif that the people that are doing it have gotten so desensitized that they're taking bets on like, okay, what's going to be this time? I'm thinking merman. Come merman!
Speaker: just wanted to see a merman. i just wanted to see a mer man it if Oh, he saw it, Merman. Oh, he saw it, alright. If Delta Green could consolidate things into that level, they would.
Speaker: But they would also be like, yeah, this isn't solving the problem because we can't solve the problem forever. Yeah. Or the whole one mistake leads to catastrophe where the line, you fool, that was the only thing keeping it contained.
Speaker: works in. So, did i yeah kind of like what we established in our three-parter at Gamer Nation College, when Bob Ross was keeping it contained. Yeah, by doing bad things, morally and legally, but he had a reason.
Speaker: Yep. And we had to solve the problem. and that's not solving the problem, because like that's just one problem. now being a con ah Being a convention game, of course, it well, i I ended up you choosing to say the word completely out because saying con game sounds like we're trying to con people.
Speaker: ah Wait, we aren't? Convention. yes Convention game. um yeah we ah you Being a convention game, we did give the players an opportunity to win.
Speaker: to succeed. Because is it a satisfying convention game experience to go through, especially in our case, to go through yeah three parts of a game and then, oh, and you lose, the world ends.
Speaker: Yes. You have the chance to lose. Yes, but in a more extended... In fact, it was, ah again, I think that that was our interpretation to bring in A ringer with Nartha Hotep.
Speaker: Yes. It sort of implies that this is like is one part of a scheme, of a scheme, of maybe 700 other schemes.
Speaker: He's like, yeah, i wanted you to stop him so you could open the thing and make the giant entity come out. Now that it's out, I need you to put it back in. Because I have other plans and other schemes. And even in that convention game, there was even a smaller horror thing that could have been pretty existential if it didn't turn into a joke. A very fun joke. But the very fine joke orb that transfers people into different bodies, it's fun as a gimmick, especially how it was used in the third session. But if you really think about it... That's horrifying.
Speaker: going straight into someone else's body and seeing them in your body, and if that orb gets destroyed or something, you're now stuck in that body. oh yeah like I was surprised that they the fact that they got that was also a lark. That was like an idea you had in your party. I made it up, and they just latched onto it. Okay, and they were very attached to it, so was like, okay, use it.
Speaker: And they used it. and Oh, they used it, right? And it's kind of how they won, but it's like, you know, that's kind of how these things i Like, extra-dimensional gods create an artifact that's going to be used by another one that's trying to stop the other one who's trying to do a thing, who's doing like 700 different other things.
Speaker: Yeah, that's another thing with the Cosmic 4 genre is that Usually humanity is a bystander. It's these other giant entities fighting the other giant entities. You're just, you're basically, it's that, it's like, you're bacteria. They don't care what bacteria is doing. They got bigger things to care about. Again, like, honestly, I'd say like, and they yeah I don't have a problem of that.
Speaker: They were obsessed with that thing. And i was like, okay, I let it go of it. It's like, i know And you did tell me beforehand that that wasn't like important at all. No, it was just something I was like, well, they're going to a secret base. The secret base probably has few artifacts.
Speaker: Here's some artifacts. I did not give any importance to it, but then when they wanted to use it, okay. They want to use it. Yep. And they use it with the limited rules you gave me. I let them use it, and they made it work. Yep.
Speaker: But going back to Cosmic Horror, that's the first thing, is that you're not winning in the absolute sense. You're not And usually, you're part of a group doing your best to try and stop some cosmic entity that you may not even be able to hurt with conventional weapons. You just have to find a way to seal it in. But every action you take confronting the unnatural costs you, both physically And sanity-wise.
Speaker: Because your character is not going to be okay after what they go through. The line is, if you... With the Delta Green objective, if you live till retirement, you did you did not have a good you did not have an effective career.
Speaker: yeah you didn't do You didn't do shit. Yeah, you didn't do nothing. You were just set piece. Because you're either dead, yeah you insane... you Or with the enemy now.
Speaker: You have regular PTSD. Or onset dementia. yeah And that's that's the bare minimum. If you're actually a proper delta green operative, you're probably split into five different dimensions. or Yeah, you're not okay. Yeah, it's that's going to be not good.
Speaker: Yeah. We're playing a long-term Delta Green campaign, and it's going to be rough. Yeah, I think my character your character... The proper adventure, too.
Speaker: Of this four-part adventure. Yeah, and I think my character and your character are the ones... I've already had ah like a mental break. again my character is not supposed to be there I'm part of your midterm adventures yes I'm in the i'm the GM for the overall adventure and if my character does go mad i have a way to bring him back yes and that's the one and that's the mechanic I like with Delta Green is that they have that mind mechanic that sanity
Speaker: mechanic because you your character is not okay dealing with this stuff on a regular basis. They aren't. It even says like unnatural. The things you're seeing is your mind giving you something that you can recognize. i think the best concept has ever that I've ever seen described it was a Tumblr post. but like What does an ant see a human?
Speaker: An ant sees a hive. It's it's a It's pheromones and all that stuff. And then a person steps in. Yes. it It cannot comprehend what this boot is.
Speaker: It knows it's bad. But it also drops things like sugar and stuff. Is it Good? Bad? Evil? It can't even comprehend the size of the thing.
Speaker: What does an ant bring back to its hive? It's like, there's this thing, it it dropped it drafted good stuff, but it also crossed like five of us with I don't know what.
Speaker: Yeah, or the inverse is like, as a human, do you take the time if you step on an ant to consider the ant? No, an ant's so small and insignificant that you don't even dedicate minuscule...
Speaker: fraction of your thought to consider the ant. And if you're, like, eating a donut and some of that sugar falls down, that's a windfall for ants. To you, that's like... Oh, I dropped something.
Speaker: And that's basically how these entities consider humanity. And that's how hum humanity interacts. Until the... Until they... They cannot quarrel with poop because they cannot comprehend the poop.
Speaker: They're like... There's... I've always argued this with people like, oh, the Cthulhu entities, they hate humanity. It's like, no they don't consider humanity.
Speaker: Yeah, they don't even think about humanity. Humanity is basically bacteria, so miniscule that they don't even take the time to consider it. Humanity considers them grand because they are large and from just acknowledging them.
Speaker: great power. And that's minuscule power compared to what power they actually wield. Yeah, does the laughing the laughing God or the dancing sultan even stop to consider a single human? No, it takes enough of them and lots of sacrifices. Like, alright, here's a, like, you can do a spell.
Speaker: Yeah, it's like... Yeah, that's the sense that a cosmic horror RPG takes that makes it work, is that You're fighting this, but you're fighting something that doesn't even know it's fighting you.
Speaker: And even the smallest parts of it, like... Even, like, the tiniest fingernail tip of whatever it is... You come out of it with gun, it's like... You come of with gun, it's like... You might as well have... You might as well just blanket them.
Speaker: Yeah, I just feel like you're not in control. The enemy... as the advantage, the enemy knight may not even consider you ah threat, and you're always reacting.
Speaker: and then as a GM, you've got to be willing to take that step to be, in a way, you use that whole GM knowledge, like you know how the story is structured, against them as an advantage in a horror RPG.
Speaker: You can do that more. Or you're encouraged to do it more as long as you do it right in a horror RPG. Again, it's a new perspective. As I think we've discussed before, and my personal philosophy is like, the GM is supposed to be working with you.
Speaker: Not your enemy. Not kind of your friend, but not always. it's It's a narrator. It's a facilitator.
Speaker: In horror, though, you can't be... friendly, you can't be... you can be accommodating. But... basically you're leading them into situations of horrific in instances.
Speaker: For lack of a point, setting traps that are... that they can't... can't dissolve. it ah Clues that they can't solve. Yeah, you cannot be afraid to try something that could kill a character.
Speaker: if you If you're hesitant to do that, then it'll actually hurt the horror RPG and help it. Yeah, especially in a horror RPG. like We kind of touched on this earlier.
Speaker: Everybody has to be on board with they potentially their character that character could potentially be lost. Because sometimes time if it's not part of the stakes, then it's not really horror.
Speaker: No, it's horror adjacent. It's action-adventure. It's so not you're not playing Alien, you're playing Terminator. At some point, someone has to die. Now, it can be a variety.
Speaker: can be a variety of ways. But someone has to pass. And that creates the moment. yeah Everything becomes, this isn't adventure.
Speaker: This is survival horror. Something must explode out of someone. Someone must be immediately like ripped and teared. a A large blade must be cut through someone.
Speaker: That's the moment the vibe changes. So any other points on what makes horror RPGs work that we wanted to hit?
Speaker: Just in a mechanical standpoint, generally we talked about conceptually your characters were normal or not that strong.
Speaker: Mechanically, the same thing. Like we talked about Walking Dead, basically you have three health. that's That's all you have. Same with aliens. Health is based on yours, your strength attribute, and usually you can only get that up to five. yep And if an alien rolls really well, if you're lucky yeah and if an alien rolls really well, it can either take all five of that off, or it could just get the head bite critical that kills you instantly.
Speaker: Same with Delta Green. you're not You're not tanky. You're squishy. Staple of all horrors. You could be You can survive a gun's harpoon.
Speaker: But if you see something horrific, um you go mad. Yeah, or how do you fight something that's a gas of colors? Can't shoot that. It's colors you can't even define. If you can even fire it, if you see it, you're already going insane. If you shoot it, it's not going to work. Yep, nice. Yeah.
Speaker: yeah
Speaker: I think you made Nick jump.
Speaker: I mean, ah yeah yeah but we won't know until he actually you starts coming on camera. Or for all we know, that's not Nick we've been talking to all this time.
Speaker: We've been talking to a doppelganger. We've been talking to a squirrel in a Nick suit. Yeah. Just Nick backwards.
Speaker: Thin. Thin. a
Speaker: You're talking to the king in yellow. We're talking to the squirrel in yellow? True. That's even more terrifying. Yeah, but then they'd be more theatrical. Squirrel!
Speaker: Squirrel! Isn't that right, that right, squirrel? Oh, look! Look what we're doing. Look what we're doing. We're bullying Nick. As far as we know. oh But yes.
Speaker: We're bullying the squirrel the Nick suit. That could have consequences. It could. that That would be too frightening. So we better end this while we're ahead. we We should. We really should. Because, you know, it is spooky season. And the squirrel you the squirrel does not give treats. The squirrel gives tricks.
Speaker: Yes. And tricks are not just for kids. No. They are for squirrels too. Yes, I can see the lucky rabbit behind you too, Robert. Not now.
Speaker: So at this point, I will go ahead and say, head over to HowWeRollGaming.com, your central hub for everything How We Roll Gaming. You'll find details in our current campaigns, our full podcast archive,
Speaker: plus quick links to our merch store and all of our social channels so you can stay connected wherever you hang out online. And if you want to snag one of our Halloween shirts... Oh! oh Okay, you can put right Yeah, that's too scary.
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Speaker: And finally, we want to hear from you. Got questions you want us to tackle? Topics you'd love to see on here?
Speaker: Or a legendary RPG story of your own this year? Drop us a line at any time at PodcastsHowWeRollGaming.com.
Speaker: We read everything, and your message might end up in the show. o He really is creeping me out.
Speaker: Wait, while we're ahead. Yep.
Speaker: But until next time, keep rolling, keep screaming, and whatever you do, don't split the party. or And don't say, I'll be right back.
Speaker: In the meantime, I'm Daryl. I'm Nick. And I'm Robert. And this is how we roll. ha ha ha ha.
Speaker: This episode of the How We Roll Gaming podcast is copyright 2026, How We Roll Gaming, LLC. All games and associated intellectual properties are copyright their respective owners, and How We Roll Gaming makes no claim of ownership by discussing them here.
