Transcript
Speaker: with the coachman D20 Radio. at Your game is rolled.
Speaker: How will We Roll Gaming is dedicated to spreading enjoyment of great role-playing games. We hope to bring you insights into games you may not have played, tips to be a better game master and player, and share us stories of momentous events at our tables.
Speaker: Every game is a new story to tell. I'm Daryl. I'm Nick. And here's Robert. And this is How We Roll.
Speaker: Welcome back to the How We Roll Gaming Podcast, everybody. Hope you are doing well. Nick, Robert, my friends, I hope you are doing well. I'm doing very well.
Speaker: Got a nice little haircut and shave and took two days off this week just because they said I needed to get rid of some PTO. is that Was the shave and a haircut two bits? ah Yep. Alright then.
Speaker: It was a big Tuesday for everyone who celebrates Godzilla Day! Big A new short on the done by cool fan fan pan film was released.
Speaker: ah Lots of content for video games and tie-ins and of course Godzilla minus hero. Yes and Depending on how you lean this week, you either celebrated or you just went, eh, when it came to our government.
Speaker: but and i guess i guess yeah godzilla was supported because godzilla's atomic breath is blue uh the and it's kind of we i already had the thumbnail for this episode done and you know if you've seen the post on social media announcing the episode or the youtube thumbnail on the youtube channel it since Given what our topic is, it's got Picard and Sisko from Star Trek The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine. And had that done like two months ago when we locked in the topic. yeah
Speaker: And you moment of silence for the captain. we We talked about him at not at length, but at the beginning of last week's casual nerdity before we dove into Clone Wars, but.
Speaker: Yeah, that that one took me by surprise. I was out of town working at conference and got a text from Stephanie that said Patrick Stewart died, all caps.
Speaker: Yeah. He is passed on to the stars. Yep. We live along in our hearts. along with He's there with if Dolly Parton and Optimus Prime.
Speaker: He's in good company. and Within the space of a week, also Walter Koenig. Yeah. So you two two people from Star Trek within a week. And I don't know if you saw, like, Marina Sirtis was inconsolable in her video about Walter Koenig.
Speaker: Yeah, I saw that. And then Patrick hit, and she was an absolute mess. Just shows how much he missed her. Well, they had all become a family. I mean, this is that it's one of those things that you always hear about actors on on TV shows or movies who stay in touch, but it's not the norm. It's a job. You do the job. When the job's over, you move on to the next job.
Speaker: You might like to go workers. You might not. Yeah, but they actually you stayed in touch, became a family to the point that you one One anecdote that isn't purely Patrick Stewart, but shows how much of a family they were, and then we'll move on ah into our actual show dealing with gaming. But Will Wheaton left the show in you season four, season five. her and But he was still part of the family, even though he felt for a long time that he wasn't, that he had left and they had moved on without him.
Speaker: But when they filmed Star Trek Nemesis, the movie opens with the wedding of Will Riker and Deanna Troi. And there's ah huge wedding reception and Wesley Crusher is there. Will Wheaton is there.
Speaker: And originally, the blocking and the director had put him at one of the guest tables out in the bulk of the reception. Meanwhile, our regular characters are all at a table up on a stage.
Speaker: And... they started rolling film and Patrick Stewart stops filming and he looks around and he said, why isn't he up here?
Speaker: He's part of the family and the cast refused to continue filming until they brought another seat up for the table on the stage to put Will at.
Speaker: Again, it never, he's, He is a knight. He is a legend of stage, TV, and film.
Speaker: And we're going to miss him. But we will see him one more time. His last performance is capping off the year, and it's going to be a tough one. But from what I've heard from the cast, it's he put all, like he always said, he put it all into it.
Speaker: Yes. And we'll always have what he was in before. Yeah. But let's we do a little bit of housekeeping and then move on to happier, more fun subjects.
Speaker: Yes, let's. Speaking of, hey, if you're always looking for new RPGs to discover, check out The Story Told. Another great show on the d twenty radio network.
Speaker: Logan and Lex talk games, interview creators, review everything from indie RPG discoveries to established favorites, and generally give you plenty of reasons to add more games to your already-too-big collection.
Speaker: Yes, more games, more ideas, more excuses to spend money on another rulebook. What's not to love? Find the story told wherever you get your podcasts. yeah Speaking of podcasts, if you've listened to ours for a while, you've probably noticed that a good many of the games we play are part of existing licensed properties.
Speaker: Star Wars, Walking Dead, Star Trek, etc. Those properties have iconic characters in them that are often part of the appeal. But they're also the main characters of the movies, shows, and comics or whatever.
Speaker: Which brings us to the question of when, how, or even if you should incorporate those characters into your games without turning your campaign's lead characters into supporting characters in someone else's story.
Speaker: Yes, because it would always be be fun in a Star Wars campaign if you're like, oh, that's Han Solo. Oh, that's Chewbacca. But then you run the risk of, okay, well.
Speaker: You're the side characters of Subogna. The side plot of the main story. Oh no, we're we're the Bothans. We're all going to die. Yeah. I mean, or you're a band called Many Bothans. So you might all might all end up dying.
Speaker: But I do have a unique perspective in this. Um. For a long period of time, and I am an amateur writer and a lot of amateur writers can affiliate with this, I was big into the fanfixing scene, which is basically writing stories with its continuities, sometimes using those main characters and sometimes creating your own characters. But there's always that risk of, are you going to interfere with the characters and their story?
Speaker: You want them to be there because you know them. and And that drums up appeal. It is a... So I feel that's a similar area to approach the concept of it can be done well, but it has to be delicate.
Speaker: Yes. And that's not... Yeah, because like anything, there's there's been bad fanfiction, or I've sometimes read really good fanfiction. Like, this person really made the story their own, but in a way that still kept the characters who they were.
Speaker: But and focusing on characters or were made the world like explored part of the world. That's like, oh, I didn't see that part, but that doesn't change the story of the main characters.
Speaker: Exactly. So the big question I'd focus on in the beginning when you're running a campaign is the question of if, because if will determine if you even need to go into the when and how, because say you're in,
Speaker: Our favorite example, Star Wars. We know the usual places. mean, you always got to have a Tatooine. You can have a Coruscant. You might have a Kashyyyk or a Dagobah or a Hoth.
Speaker: But if you actually look at a map of the Star Wars galaxy, it's an actual galaxy. There are thousands or hundreds, at least, of planets you could go to. Regions that have never even been touched by the main movies.
Speaker: Legends gets into some of them. But even Legends doesn't cover everything. So the big question is... yeah go ahead And even if you touch on like the main planets.
Speaker: Planets are big. Despite what you think in Star Wars. That's what Star Wars makes it look like. They may be mono-environmental. But... But they are still planets.
Speaker: So it's very feasible that... And probably the easiest way of having quote-unquote guest appearances of Notables are what I feel is like a flyby. Yes. Yeah.
Speaker: Because you can decide, okay, I'm running this campaign with these characters in this sector of the galaxy to do one of the next examples that's kind of on hiatus right now, or yeah, it's on hiatus.
Speaker: We had heroes in Hutt Space, where as the title suggests, we are playing characters in Hutt Space. with all the now Hutas, Narsha Dawes, all those places, you you're not expected to run into Luke Skywalker in Hutt space.
Speaker: Or Princess Leia. it's sort Maybe Han Solo and Chewbacca, depending on when they are in their story. But all in all, Hutt space is entirely new ground, so it might not be a good idea to put in any of the main stars in, say, one of the Hutt palaces.
Speaker: Because then got to ask, okay, why are you here? What's the plot reason you're here other than, oh hey, it's that guy. For a counterpoint, if you wanted to sort of do a close up, I ran a one-shot for some friends maybe eight years ago. This will demonstrate the system to them.
Speaker: ah They were running a heist in Mos Eisley at the same time of A New Hope. They were about to be caught by some mob bosses, but then the suit out with the Millennium Falcon happened and that gave them that escape.
Speaker: They did not interact with any of the characters, but that moment gave them that as sort of quick chance to escape from a city. And that's a good way to do things. if If you want to include those iconic characters, a great way to do it is to have those those actual, you quote unquote, canon events happened in the background of what's going on in your adventure. Because otherwise, if those main characters, like, let's say, know, we're going to continue talking Star Wars.
Speaker: Let's say Luke Skywalker comes walking in to, you know your, your characters are a rebel cell, let's say. And Luke Skywalker comes walking in and says,
Speaker: come with me, I'm leading you on this mission. You've just, your players have just become supporting characters for your GM PC for the session.
Speaker: Like, yes, you are my disposable cannon fodder. Let's go. Again, that's the, that's the either or. It's like, either i take this seriously and play along and thusly I'm given plot armor.
Speaker: Or if I, then likely the harder enemies that the DM is going to put against the plot-armored main character is going to slaughter you.
Speaker: Yes, or this can be done another way instead of someone like Luke Skywalker coming in, taking your team and going. You could have the star kind of as, in an RPG sense, the quest giver.
Speaker: Like there have been times when we've run Rebel-centered games, and it's Mon Mothma over the Hollow giving us a mission. That's a good way to use a star because they're the because she's leadership, and leadership is giving you a mission. And that's what I do in Rebel Yell.
Speaker: The band, many boffins, there they're Rebel Handler for the times that they do missions for the Alliance, and is Agent Kallus, after he's joined the Rebellion.
Speaker: Yes. And so Kallus will show up occasionally, sometimes in person, sometimes over transmission, to give them their job. Similarly, in our Whisperface campaign, ah we had the mentor, a alias of Terry. Yes, cool goatee and everything.
Speaker: well That was when he was going by Punished Lux in his disguise, which I always thought that was an incredibly funny joke. Yes, and you even threw in for Giles' character who was kind of that Force-sensitive Jedi or Sith person, you threw in Ahsoka Tana a little bit for both that little Jedi wisdom before she just disappears and a little bit of a joke of the Ahsoka Lux. Well, they won't think.
Speaker: I get it. Yeah, they were. I never even when Lux became a more permanent part of the base, he was not the main character. You were the main character.
Speaker: Exactly. He was the person behind the chair. He had all the information. He had the contacts. And when Ahsoka showed up, she was only there at to give some guiding, but he was on her own mission.
Speaker: And the separation was part of the plan. Now, what you have to be careful about not doing is, I've mentioned a time or two before on the show, the Star Wars campaign that I was in that was mercifully short-lived, that we were given ungodly amounts of x p Yes. In every session.
Speaker: And that campaign started out on Hoth during the Battle of Hoth. Okay, fair enough. great The GM, and I will practice this by saying, the g i love the GM.
Speaker: He is a wonderful person. This is one of his first experiences GMing. And he turned his laptop around and played the Battle of Hoth for us.
Speaker: and said, oh, and that's you right there. Yeah, you're that soldier. Soldier E over there. and then Or he would pause it and then cut back to us.
Speaker: But how long is that sequence in the movie? It's what, a 10-15 minute sequence of the movie? Yep. So we we spent 10 or 15 minutes of our session watching a movie. now others I understand.
Speaker: I like it. i Would you describe it to me? It's literally the, literally the The example that was given to like a Pandemic and then EA for the concept of Battlefront.
Speaker: All right, we're gonna you are the soldier in these big battle scenes. Yes, but that is a first-person shooter. well i mean it's like the The concept is good, but if you're playing it, with that's the problem. like So when do I play it?
Speaker: Yeah, it's like, the battle is good, but what does my character have to do with watching Luke Snowspeeder take down a walk-in? Like, you could point me out in the trances, and... but um Cut me into the trances.
Speaker: what am i Now cut down into me in the trances, and what am I doing to actively survive this battle? Now, I will admit, in my last session of our Star Trek campaign...
Speaker: It was a even, it's set in the next generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager time period. But it was a direct sequel to an original series episode.
Speaker: And there were a couple of moments where just to make it easier for everyone, since not everyone at the table is, has even watched the original series of Star Trek. There were a couple of moments To make it easier to provide the context, I ran scenes from that episode.
Speaker: And I'm just saying, like you you said this so sort of just kicked them out. that that They weren't true fans. No, Nick. No. no Because that that would have required kicking out our captain, and our captain is doing an awesome job despite never having watched Star Trek. He's just like that. way Yeah, it's just a perfect Starfleet captain without ever having watched Star Trek. I love it. I love it. I love it.
Speaker: But let's look at that kind of thing too. Switching it over to Star Trek a little bit, that's a franchise where, at least with the the previous iterations of the various shows, they haven't done it as much on the current generation of shows.
Speaker: But from original to next generation to Deep Space Nine to Voyager to Enterprise, as each new series started, There was a character from the previously run series that appeared in the pilot episode to kind of hand off.
Speaker: And especially with Next Generation and Deep Space Nine and even Voyager to a degree, there would be small crossovers.
Speaker: from time to time. And so with some of these systems, it becomes tempting to want to do those kind of small crossovers where one or two characters come in. It's not a big epic, you know, Avengers level crossover where every character from every franchise is getting involved and has an important thing to do. But, you know, like say Dr. Bashir from Deep Space Nine showed up on an episode of Next Generation while they were at Deep... while the Enterprise was at Deep Space Nine.
Speaker: Again, going back... And so it was interesting to have that kind of thing. Again, going back to my history, with before I even had a proper writing class, I was in doing a lot of fanfics, and a lot of fanfics were like either, okay, we're hanging out the main cast, but it's like, well, why is the main cast here?
Speaker: And your new characters... But the best ones were like, okay, someone's here and there is a like passing of the force. We had our story. this is what We're here. We're doing parts that make sense for our characters.
Speaker: I feel like the best example is our current campaign, Robert. Yes, so I agree with that as well. We've we talked about before, but Nick and I run Legacy of the Force, which is set after the Battle of Exegol, like about six months, or in this case, about a year after now.
Speaker: And we use supporting people. Poe's in there. There's Rey, Chewbacca, but we always use them as supporting cast, or we just have them like Finn. Finn is the leader of the Jedi Sentinel, the the Jedi Chancellor Guards, so he's usually on Coruscant.
Speaker: And our players rarely go to Coruscant, but we know Finn's there. And Poe is flying around with the Republic, public Navy. So he pops in with information from time to time, raise her loan. I'm not a Jedi act.
Speaker: So she's kind of the spiritual mentor for most of our people and there a story um kind of entourage, but they don't steal the show. In fact, right now, she's knocked out and captured, so she's not even in the scene anymore.
Speaker: The story is basically, it is the main, our characters show, and we want to make certain that it is their story, but in the background, we are sort of filling in the gaps of like what they're the other, because they're still there.
Speaker: Yeah, we're built, we're basically doing the where are they now thing after, after the movies, at least our decision. for And where are they now while our main characters are progressing the plot, but they're still doing their own things that are going to impact the plot down the road.
Speaker: Yes. Never, never taking that, taking the agency and the power from the players. Yes. Which can also bring another option you might want to do if you ever think of star characters.
Speaker: Do you want them to be, if you do decide to want them, are they supporting cast, mission givers? or if Or are they, like the legend Stan Lee, just a cameo? Again, one of the best examples that is in, again, going back to Star Wars, but for a Star Wars film, Rogue One was filled with fun cameos.
Speaker: Like Dr. Eversand running in. into Andor. It's like fun little cross-throughs. It's like, I know you. yeah it's like, hey, I know that guy.
Speaker: And then we've talked mostly about ally star characters, like main cast. But you could also do the other side, which is, hey, maybe you want to use one of those star cast villains.
Speaker: as your big bads. Right. Your Vader's, your Khans, your Palpatine's. Or if you're running a underworld campaign, maybe Shadow Lord Maul comes in there and you have no idea what he is to you guys.
Speaker: Boba Fett pounces your bounty and it's like, alrighty. So do I even try? Well, and those I think are, they're some of the easier iconic characters to bring in because you don't have to worry about, are they going to overshadow the PCs?
Speaker: Are they going to make the PCs become supporting characters because they're adversaries? Yes. It's more, the PCs are in the shadow of the overarching enemy. Like if you did Grand Moff Tarkin, you're probably not going to meet Grand Moff Tarkin.
Speaker: on the street no he's busy on one of his star destroyers basically ruining the galaxy if vader is in a scene it doesn't it is not a scene that your characters are going to encounter vader they are going to run yes which we happened in whisper base on manan were like oh i know that tie that's vader we need to leave Well, and to be fair, in one of the earliest supplements for the FFG version of the Star Wars RPG, they did have Vader show up in the adventure, and the stats for him were run.
Speaker: And I liked that. i Especially for someone like Vader, I liked that he wasn't statted out. Granted, his stats now are still bad, but but to have him say, like, we're not even statting him out, you don't have a chance.
Speaker: yeah the the best The best version was, of course, from the recent video game, Star Wars. Where's the Jedi Survivor? It's like, oh. Not even Jedi Survivor. Jedi Fallen Order. Because that was purely run. In Jedi Survivor, there was an actual fight. It's still a loss, but it gave you the illusion of winning.
Speaker: Yeah, but Fallen Order was just, oh, she's jumping at me? No. It's like, You just surrender the hologram. Probably, yeah. Yeah. is like it's like It's like, okay, I'm running, running. It's like, no, this is a... You thought you were playing a Star Wars game. and Now it's a Michael Myers horror. Well, one of the things, too, that makes using an iconic villain character like that is...
Speaker: a lot of your heavy lifting is the GM is done because when, when Vader walks into the room, your players know what that means. If in not that I would do this because the story is so far removed that it wouldn't make sense. yeah But if I had Negan walk onto the strip in the walking dead game, you would know what that means. Oh, we're wrapping our pants now. And I will say, like, because they're so iconic, it also, like, you have, quote-unquote, like, ways to describe them.
Speaker: Using your Negan example, the the heavy footfalls of boots, the, uh, The jovial scene. or whistle of the yeah Of the jacket. the the yeah and You see an individual coming up with a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire. Before you even say the name Negan, if the characters understand the universe they're in of The Walking Dead and you even do like half that, they are already put into a moment. It's like, oh no.
Speaker: And we haven't done many, or we haven't really played any yet, superhero games that are based on actual published um comics.
Speaker: Although I have all but one Marvel multiverse book, and we're looking forward to the Justice League RPG. But that kind of thing is expected. It's expected that you' you're playing in the Marvel universe or the DC universe, So that you can play with those toys.
Speaker: Exactly. i got it we we We played around with like, wait, actually I did with Invincible. Oh, that's true. That was fun. It's like, oh, I'm dead now. Yeah, that's true. We did play we did play the quick start of Invincible.
Speaker: and i ah but It's a about living in there to bring in the big end. But you know, like recently I was on our friend Nate at Tabletop Empire's birthday live stream.
Speaker: And during it, I tossed out a a story moment that I used back in college in our DC Heroes role-playing game um campaign. And I think I might have mentioned it here before too.
Speaker: think you did, yeah. But the characters were... yeah There were all sorts of weird horror-ish shenanigans going on. And it turned out that the Joker had gotten hold of one of the Lament Configuration puzzle boxes from Hellraiser. And and the the Joker solved the Lament puzzle box.
Speaker: And opened a gateway to hell. And like the doctor who did the same thing in Hellraiser 2, the Joker was turned into a Cenobite. And so the Joker had these...
Speaker: hooks in the corners of his mouth that were pulling his smile even more unnaturally wider and things like that. And so, but it was a chance to play with two iconic villainous pieces, of sets of imagery, the Joker and all that that entails and Hellraiser and all that that entails. Yeah.
Speaker: No thank you. This is actually a great segue when you, it might just be recency bias, I've gotten a couple new ah books in in the Call of Cthulhu that Eldritch's horrors of Lovecraftian lore are basically, you don't want to meet them. Honestly, no you do, you lose. But they are also by the fact of them being mostly in the public domain.
Speaker: can, so I'll be interested about anything, but like they carry a presence where they, or even just their name carries power. Yes, and in a universe like Call Cthulhu or Delta Green, that's that's built in into the premise.
Speaker: Because you're going to fight cultists or rogue actors, and they're going to use things of, or maybe Nierlth of Tep, Azathoth, if they're crazy enough. The King in Yellow. The Yellow.
Speaker: But you see how they're used as like background power-ups or kind the looming just state of the universe rather than, Cthulhu's right in your face.
Speaker: he that Because that's not scary. and ah yeah like and as Again, people's big tentacle... i'll agree with like ninety percent of people's like big tentacle Tangle Man.
Speaker: Not scary. What he represents as a that's the barest comprehension that the human mind can concoct without going completely insane.
Speaker: Yes, I've always liked how they're like, this is what they look like. That's only because that's what your mind supplies you with. Because actually understanding what they look like would break your mind. It's like,
Speaker: I always be like, oh, what if we saw a nuke at Cthulhu? It's like, well, the incomprehensible horror is gonna tank that. It's still an incomprehensible horror, and now it's radioactive. Or it's like, congratulations, you hit it, and you forced him to take a nap, and he's gonna be back.
Speaker: Or, now he knows you're there. Or worse, now he knows nukes exist, and he just goes, I could i He knows nukes exist. He knows you are there because you were beneath his notice before. It's like, oh, splitting the atom?
Speaker: I can do that. That's a good trick. It's kind of like spinning. I'll do that. For all the atoms. Yeah, so we've talked a lot about if you should use the main character.
Speaker: now if you decide you do want to use his main character... Now the question of timing comes into play. When should you bring that character into into play? yeah There they are. The the obvious, i would say, like for beginner GMs, it's probably the best case to use it early.
Speaker: If you're trying to get people introduced to a system, especially if it has an established franchise, yeah, it helps to have like, hey, that's that guy. And he's telling me to do the thing. It's it's and eating ga that' go It's meeting Gandalf at the Prancing Pony. Meeting... meeting ah Getting a job from Jabba the Hutt. Or you get roped into one of Hondo's crazy schemes.
Speaker: Well, and and using them that way is kind of like that that handoff thing that that the Star Trek series did. ah yeah to To give the examples, when Next Generation premiered, there was a cameo from an elderly McCoy who was touring the Enterprise.
Speaker: When Deep Space Nine premiered, um the Enterprise was at the station to drop off Chief O'Brien because he was being transplanted from one series to the other. And Captain Picard wanted to meet with Commander Sisko several times throughout the beginning of the episode. like, Captain Picard wants to meet with you, Captain Picard wants to meet with you.
Speaker: Captain Picard wants to meet with you. um And finally, Sisko goes to meet with Picard. So you have that handoff kind of thing. And that's a way that you can do that in the game system.
Speaker: You can have them, know, make that handoff. That iconic character comes in and and says, oh, hey, you know, It's good to meet you, and I understand, you know like let's say it's Star Wars.
Speaker: Luke comes in to this group of new recruits to the Rebellion and says, It's great to have you here. We're glad to have you join the cause and send them off to their adventures.
Speaker: Yes. Or the other option is, kind of how Nick did with Whisper Base, is that you have that character established, but not revealed yet. You have them as the mentor character giving you information, feeding you leads, directing your operations until you get to that mid or season finale arc where he that character finally steps out of the shadows and it's, oh, it's been Lux the whole time. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Betsy clocked it. We were on Onderon, so. Or it could be Yeah.
Speaker: But ah that there's like tons of ways to do that. it's like Without like being explicit passing of the torches. but just like Again, like, oh, you're you're called into Jabba's palatine. It's a job for you.
Speaker: Guess what? He has like 70 other guys doing jobs for him. Yeah, maybe you see Boba Fett at his side just kind of has a... okay he's He's got 70 other guys that he's given the same job to. Whoever gets it first gets paid. Yep. That sets up conflict too because now you have all of these other NPCs that your PCs are in competition with.
Speaker: And then as a GM you can just go, oh. Yeah. it's much But like that there's ways to use established characters. Going back to a Walking Dead campaign, you could have has someone be newly, a group newly inducted into the Savior. Just like, well, well, well, you have a job for you.
Speaker: It's like, oh, you got some big old balls on you. Yeah. or yeah will here's another way that you can do it. ah Speaking of Walking Dead, especially if you're going to do a one-shot instead of a campaign, those some of those iconic characters can be PCs. Yes, or I was thinking... Because... Oh, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker: Because we've talked but we did a an anatomy of a campaign on My Walking Dead campaign. And in between season one and season two, just last weekend, as we record this, we had the first interlude flashing back to one of the PC's backstories.
Speaker: And I made it a crossover with The Pit. And it was awesome. Oh, it was incredible. Everybody but the established character or established PC character died. Yeah. but it it All of that nick contributed two that to that character's development.
Speaker: Yeah. So Nick started off... dear Dear audience, we've told you about how many times I've killed Nick in this one campaign that I had killed him three times. I doubled that with just one session.
Speaker: What? His second character didn't even survive a minute. but I believe we clocked it at 30 seconds. Pretty much. But Nick started off playing you since it was the pit, but it was set in 2010. He was a younger Dr. Robbie. And even though she's not part of the campaign, Stephanie was there. She played Dana, who had just been promoted to charge nurse.
Speaker: And she played great. She played it If you know the pit, she played it good. She did. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But that was that was part of the genesis of that one shot. Just having that crazy idea to, hey, let's let's do it a game session of one of our... it It started off with just an idle thought that I had here on an episode of this show when I said cyberpunk in the pit.
Speaker: Yeah, then you like, no, wait. Walking dead in the pit. Because it works. It works way better, honestly. I think I spent like a week afterwards. No, no.
Speaker: It was Walking Dead in the middle. It was like, that's so that's the that's the that's the sauce. And so we got to use those iconic character those two iconic characters.
Speaker: And it was a lot of fun. of you You could take a Star Trek one-shot. and pick a series. Pick your favorite Star Trek series, and let the players play those characters. Yes, or another idea is if you're not going to have the the main stars as established characters throughout the campaign, but you may want to do a fun, not a one-shot, but maybe introduce them in one session, you could have that whole
Speaker: meeting the characters, maybe even traveling with them a little bit for that one session, and then they leave. Using a Walking Dead example, maybe your characters are down in Texas and they meet Abraham and Rosita and Eugene and they travel for a little bit.
Speaker: Or the characters from Fear the Walking Dead because they spent a fair amount of time in Texas too. Yes. yeah is that wait That just has the whole, oh, I know those people.
Speaker: Yeah, we're going the same way. and then our past. If I attack the quality, that gives it especially if the idea having characters contact with each other. And I have one more example. It's Star Wars related.
Speaker: And I'll let you guys continue first. Well, I have an extreme option here. o who Lay it on us. I have an extreme option.
Speaker: If you're not beholden, to the franchise's continuity in your game that you're going to play, you introduce those named characters and kill them.
Speaker: So we do a Glenn early. We do a Glenn early, or you run into you know Luke Skywalker and you distract him and the stormtroopers gun him down.
Speaker: Or worse, you cause his death by accident. Yeah, that's what I mean. or you know, you in an alien game, you encounter Ripley and be before Alien 3, she dies. Or you say, say a superhero game.
Speaker: know, you are tasked or not even necessarily a superhero game. You're tasked with rescuing the main character and you don't. Kind of kind of like in Mystery Men.
Speaker: yeah you I know Nick has seen Mystery Men. Robert, have you seen Mystery Men? Let me check with Ben Stiller, Janine Garofalo. kind of a dark... How would you classify that? I was classified as like a dark comedy. No, I haven't seen that movie.
Speaker: So there's the the big um you're like main Paragon famous superhero who gets captured And our, you know, not even D-list, they're like Z-list superheroes band together and they go to rescue him and he inadvertently gets killed. So it's up to them to stop the villain and save the day.
Speaker: Yeah, it could be dramatic or it could even be funny. Like, I'm just, it popped in my head. I'm just thinking of like, Pulp Fiction that, oh, I shot Marvin in the face. Why the hell did you honestly that? Honestly, that's even the best example. It's like, Pulp Fiction doesn't really have a main character. it has a MacGuffin. Which itself is the best example of a MacGuffin in all of Fiction, if you ever had to explain anyone to what a MacGuffin is. But like the main factor is like, yeah, the characters just sort of drop dead, and it's like but they're crossing over into each other's stories, but they're not the same story. or i'll I'll actually raise the stakes with you, Daryl. What if you accidentally kill the big bad in session one, and now the rest of the campaign is like, okay, what happens in that vacuum? like What if
Speaker: You accidentally kill Palpatine. Does that suddenly put Vader as the Emperor? Because, oh boy, that would be horrible. um His new empire. My new empire. Actually, I can explain that. um The hopeless situation warriors. didn't kill the big bad. We just ignored the big bad. We we ignored the main plot line that you wanted us to follow.
Speaker: And did eventually kill the big bad of that plot line. Only to find out she was a lieutenant character. Right? Yes. I had to pivot.
Speaker: Yeah, it's like, pivot! Or even funnier, you kill Vader and Palpatine's like, that's the third apprentice I've lost. Now we need to find a new one. Oh! Ahsoka 2, but edgier.
Speaker: but edser No, you know what that lets you bring in Nick, what was our first let's stat out an overpowered adversary? Oh, no. i don't know i Have you listened to that episode? like no we we i think we got as close to like proper Starkiller.
Speaker: But I just had an idea for a funny one-shot. It's Vader dies, and the Emperor basically puts on basically a mercab talent show. It's like, who wants to be the next apprentice?
Speaker: Come and show me what you have. What could he... oh What would the show be called? Oh, wait, I'm sorry. NBC already has that copyrighted. Oh! No, I got it.
Speaker: Unlimited power. No, nick Nick, it just went completely over your head. i think it did, yeah. He's referring to the apprentice show. Oh!
Speaker: But we cannot do that or we'll get sued. That's right. It would have to be legally distinct. The Acolyte. Wait, that's up. Well, that's already taken, too.
Speaker: The Acolyte's already taken. May the fourth be the one. Dixon with the Sith. Fourth times the charm. Dancing with the Sith. it's It's a dance competition to see who's going to be the new apprentice.
Speaker: You can't be worse than the last guy. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Sith tank. Yes. And Targen. and another guy. that Obviously one of the tags. There's to be some sort of obnoxious trillionaire and in there.
Speaker: we need someone from the corporate sector. So is is Palpatine Mr. Wonderful? yeah He has to be. i'm I'm going to give you a royalty deal. There's gotta be a young entrepreneur that's like really eager but also evil. Someone from CompNor.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah, Palpatine's like, how do you feel about cybernetic suits? You would have to lose Both your arms and your legs. But we can make it work.
Speaker: Actually, how about I just put a stake in your company and you don't have to do any of that stuff. But it's still evil. But it doesn't have a all all like all like the sirenatic stuff.
Speaker: And if I'm annoyed or if I just want to do it, I'll shock you. Occasionally. I'll have that. it Yeah, he he doesn't say eye out. He's like, you're out.
Speaker: Pretty much like, well, I just thought, why go to the house and let him leave and you could just get rid of the body? But yeah it that was a fun little distraction. But back to the topic. There's also ways have those characters appear in other aspects of the campaign. ah It was short-lived, but ah I ran a a campaign online during the quarantine period.
Speaker: And Luke Skywalker did appear, but as a sort of a support unit, sort of giving air support. And one thing that you do have to keep in mind, too, if you do want to maintain continuity, especially if you're dealing with using a villain, an iconic villain, is you got to be careful, you know, to not kill him.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Which, in in the Star Wars RPGs, can actually work very well because you can simply flip a Destiny token and they're like, bye. Peace out.
Speaker: like Again, that that is an actual useful tool that is built into the system of both Genesis and Star Wars RPG system, but it sort of you're kind of, uh, breaking sort the rules, but telling it's like, yeah, you can just do with that in any, you can do a, I'll get you next time. Has it? that Yeah. And yeah it's kind of your thing.
Speaker: It's like, you can just do that. And it's probably worth having the conversation in session zero. ah With the players, do you even want to see iconic characters? And if I bring them in as a villain, are we sticking to continuity? So if they if we are understand if iconic villains come in, they're going to have plot armor.
Speaker: Yes, that's definitely something useful to ask. like Do you want to keep the timeline, or are we going divergent? And if going to fight them, like how...
Speaker: Do you want to have ah fight with them and allow you to leave bruised, maybe a bit hurt, but at least you put up kind of your best fight?
Speaker: Or is it just like, no, I don't want to fight them. Which is perfectly fine. It's like, maybe they become void situation.
Speaker: Kind of like like you saw Darth Vader walking down a hallway. You're like, nope, nope. I'm out of here. But it could be a great character moment for them to be like, I'm going to try and take him on. It's like, oh, you got your ass.
Speaker: On the contrary, like in any other like narrative story, you'd be dead. Guess what? You've learned something from that. I decided to you let you... I decided to give you plot armor because you were up against Darth Vader as fully statted out by FFG. In his armor as fully statted out by ffg With his lightsaber. As police. FFG. Combined all together. Is absolutely. in Insane. yeah and
Speaker: You decide to fight against him. But guess what? It's your character's humbling. You're going to take some time. You're going to have to heal up. But part of that is. That's just healing physically. But like understanding like.
Speaker: yeah, I can't take it on Fred's like that. Yes, and then I would also say, as an inverse, you should definitely talk to your players about this as well, because I've found, at least in my opinion, being beaten by a star character is somehow less invalidating than if I was saved by a star character. That whole, I'm about to die, but oh, the hero comes in and saves me.
Speaker: It's like, well, I just feel like, am I even trying? I guess, like, it even in the story that makes sense, remember that role-playing games are different from proper narratives.
Speaker: In a proper narrative, that can have its weight disputed in sort of, like, internal monologue and everything. In a role-playing game, it's cheap.
Speaker: Yeah, it's... it At least when you fight Darth Vader, it's your GM saying, i well, if you want to, sure. i'm not going to hold back.
Speaker: I've given you the chance run. yeah Versus if Luke saved you, that's your GM telling you, no, this is not a fight you can win, so I'm pulling you out. Again, the only way that that makes sense is literally is like, no, the next shot is going to kill you.
Speaker: And even then, that's still that' so a so start of a story arc of you learning, like, yeah, you bit off too much. And you needed that set-face. But if you are, like, halfway through the duel, it's like, I'll handle this. It's like, that's not a fight.
Speaker: here You're in a cutscene, and that didn't matter. It's like, yeah, it's the GM basically saying, no, you can't win this fight, so I'm not even going to let you fight this fight. It's last minute saving is a different moment.
Speaker: And even that can be proposed as like, I'm going to do my best to keep him off. Like even again, in the narrative that works. Yes. But the main factor there is like, it has to be your character basically on the ground dying before someone else saves him.
Speaker: I would say as a GM, definitely if you have that scenario in mind in your head, you need to ask yourself, well, if I need to set up a scene where my players will be saved by the main character of the actual movies, should I even include that scene at all?
Speaker: Honestly, the better solution is like, and again, the sort of fact that we're having is that we're framing it as a quote-unquote one-on-one on Vader, which is, should never be a thing.
Speaker: Yeah, which is suicide, but The actual scene should be the whole team acting in different ways to dissuade Vader. Don't look at us. Look at that person. They're more important. standing up Setting up traps using different skills. Pocket sand.
Speaker: Pocket sand. No, just dump him in a sand pit. He'll stay. He'll run away. Either way, like the idea is like if your character yeah like assuming this situation like We have a haughty like warrior that wants to I will take Vader on myself. It's like, oh no! Nope!
Speaker: Your funeral. The team is like using grenades, different ranged attacks, they force powers. like They are actively working to get you away from Vader and this waiting Vader. I just know that I am looking forward to when I finally am able to start running the Marvel Multiverse RPG with all of you because then i can use the iconic character of the unbeatable Squirrel Girl.
Speaker: Nick will run. Yes. But why? Why? Because she's a hero. And Nick would also be a hero. Because some phobias transcend loyalties and some wounds are too deep.
Speaker: They look like Like Squirrel Girl from Marvel Rivals. I have seen some artwork. i I don't know because I've never played Marvel Rivals.
Speaker: Let's just say Nick would have a conflict because girl but squirrel. Yes. what What do you think, Nick? What do you think?
Speaker: I am conflicted. because I've seen seen the the artwork from Marvel Rivals. It looks like a fun game. It's also free to play. but It's going to, not knowing, given your reaction to the Marvel Rivals artwork, even without seeing it, no, it looks like the original Ditko ah portrayal of Squirrel Girl.
Speaker: He's clenching. nick is Nick is now scared beyond words. Nick is frightened. ah So I guess that means that it's time for me to say head over to how we roll gaming.com your central hub for everything. How we roll gaming. You'll find details on our current campaigns, our full podcast archive, plus quick links to our merch store and all our social channels. So you can stay connected wherever you hang out online.
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Speaker: We want to hear from you. Got questions you want us to tackle? Topics you'd love to hear us? So, or a legendary RPG glory story of your own desire?
Speaker: Drop us a line at any time. Podcast at HowWeRollGaming.com. We read everything and your message is right up in the show. And, gentlemen, do you know what time of year it is? It is the year of giving thanks.
Speaker: Yes, we are we are getting close to Thanksgiving, and that means that our next episode is going to be our second annual RPG Gift Ideas show.
Speaker: Yes, but it's even bigger and better this time. We might have some special guests show up. Yes, we've got guests lined up to contribute some gift ideas. We're going to have gift ideas. It's going to be gift-tastic.
Speaker: Come ready, come with your wallet, and we'll show you what you can get. Yes. And have it in mind that gamer in your family or friend group.
Speaker: Yep. But until then... They say never meet your heroes. We say bring them to the gaming table. I'm Daryl. I'm Nick. And I'm Robert.
Speaker: And this is How We Roll. This episode of the How We Roll Gaming podcast is copyright 2026, How We Roll Gaming, LLC.
Speaker: All games and associated intellectual properties are copyright their respective owners, and How We Roll Gaming makes no claim of ownership by discussing them here.
