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Daily Manchester City: Arsenal Post Match Crossover - Disaster at the Emirates
9 Plays25 days ago
Episode 70 - Jools is joined by Josh Vince from the Daily Arsenal team to go over City's devastating 5-1 loss to The Gunners, the rivalry between the two s (focusing on a certain Erling Haaland and Myles Lewis-Skelly's involvement in that) and where this result leaves both sides moving forward
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Transcript
Introduction and Light Banter
00:00:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hello and welcome back to the Daily Manchester City Podcast on the Global Sports Podcast Network. Today, I am joined once again by Josh Vince from the Daily Arsenal ah ah Podcast. I'm sure he's not going to glow too much, although that is a distinct possibility. Hi Josh, how are we?
00:00:27
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Jules. I'm great, mate. I'm really good, you know. ah yeah joe I will do my best not to gloat too much. it's It's been a while since we've been in a position like this, so it's going to be hard to properly sort of, you know, keep myself tempered, but I'll do my best.
00:00:43
Josh Vince - Arsenal
this is We work together. We're colleagues, technically. So, you know, I'm going to be nice. I'm going to be nice.
00:00:50
Global Sports Podcast Network
I really appreciate that, Canda. Thank you, Josh. I'll tell you what, how about you get the gloating out early.
Arsenal's Triumph Over City
00:00:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
I'm going to pass you the mic, so to speak, pass you the reins, and give you however long you want to rub it in. Describe your thoughts and feelings as the full-time whistle went.
00:01:11
Josh Vince - Arsenal
I'll be honest with you, Jules, it could be summed up in two words. Two very, very simple words in the English language. I think you know what they are. I think everybody listening knows well what they are. So I'll get my gloating out in just those two. Stay humble.
00:01:30
Josh Vince - Arsenal
honestly it was it was just admittedly Harlan still got one back on us by pointing to his shirt at the end of the game you know and it was the thing is I've seen a lot of commentators be really upset about Miles Lewis Skelly doing Harlan's sort of celebration and things like and the team ribbing each other but that's what the Premier League has been lacking for a little bit like a proper proper rivalry and come full time it was it was such a joy to see the Emirates so bouncing to see habits on the score sheet was excellent as well to see the performances of the youngsters it was just a very let's call it a very positive last half hour because there's a big chunk of that game which was quite hard to watch just i think for any football fan it would have been quite hard to watch what about yourself what are your thoughts at full time
00:02:16
Global Sports Podcast Network
deaf Well, I mean, stay humble was definitely on the brain, but maybe not, and not not in the same way. Yeah, I think most most
Tactical Analysis of Arsenal vs City
00:02:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
people involved with Citi were seething.
00:02:26
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Mm hmm.
00:02:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
Naturally, losing to a main rival is never good.
00:02:32
Josh Vince - Arsenal
No.
00:02:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
Getting hammered by a main rival is pretty catastrophic, and especially on the back of what had been
00:02:36
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Hmm.
00:02:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
Bar the odd Champions League result an upturn in form and beating in six in the Premier League and Kind of solidified that fourth place um um at the time looking up instead of down for the first time in maybe a couple of months so yeah, I think that Arsenal results and has probably knocked a bit of wind out of the sails of Pep Guardiola side and Yes, losing by four, conceding five.
00:03:06
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's only the second time Peppers conceded five, by the way.
00:03:08
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Oh,
00:03:11
Josh Vince - Arsenal
that's not great.
00:03:11
Global Sports Podcast Network
oh at At City, at least.
00:03:13
Global Sports Podcast Network
And it's his and it's his all time and not all time it's a joint record loss for City under his stewardship as well.
00:03:14
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yes.
00:03:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
So, yeah, it was quite quite a hammer-in, to be quite honest. But There will be another day. It's only three points.
00:03:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
The season won't be defined by it. It'll probably get City entirely out of the title race now, but that was probably but that was probably already the case.
00:03:38
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
00:03:42
Global Sports Podcast Network
You mentioned quite a few things that we'll get into just to preface a bit of the podcast. You mentioned the needle between the suicides and that the league needs that.
00:03:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
We'll go
Spotlight on Arsenal's Young Talent
00:03:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
into that in a bit more depth later on. and But first of all, I want to ask you, where do you think the game was won and lost for both sides?
00:04:00
Josh Vince - Arsenal
I think, firstly, I just want to ah mention something very quickly. Obviously, you say it was devastating being hammered by a rival. Welcome to the club. That's happened to us for the last seven years whenever we played City. I remember the first game back from Covid at the Etihad, Jacque got a red card and you thumped us. So it's one of those games that could throw up a brutal result. Where the game was won and lost, I think in terms of I think it was in two parts. I think it was in Arsenal's press, firstly. I think that was the most important thing. And I think it was, for some reason, Pep Guardiola decided that the midfield doesn't really matter and put a really weird configuration in the middle of the park. And I think, ultimately, that's where the game was won, the overwhelming of the midfield by Arsenal in that game.
00:04:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, I'd i'd agree wholeheartedly. I think and you're not the first team this year to isolate that as a weakness for City because it definitely has been. Obviously we've, on this podcast, we've talked to death about the the absence of Rodry and how important he is. And even we have discussed that. He is slightly adapted finally to put two, a double pivot in there over the last week or so, last couple of weeks.
00:05:17
Global Sports Podcast Network
That double pivot was Bernardo Silva and Kovacic experienced pros that are good on the ball. But yeah, you could it it didn't fill many city fans with with a with optimism seeing that on the team sheet.
00:05:23
Josh Vince - Arsenal
a
00:05:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
and Not that you ever know how the team is going to line up. There can be five defenders and you only play three at the back sometimes. so
00:05:37
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yes, very true.
00:05:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
So, which you never say second-guess the great bald man anymore, but yeah, this this performance and this result definitely leaves a lot of questions. You mentioned Miles Louis-Skelley, of course. he he ah He played a pivotal part in the match.
00:05:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
and getting himself embroiled with some beef with the with the big Norwegian. and you've you you might You must be so pleased about how he has A, and found his feet in the Arsenal side and B, that special moment on Sunday.
00:06:00
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Of course. yes
00:06:10
Josh Vince - Arsenal
ah Yeah, please. And oddly, it's one of those things as a football fan, especially as you get a little bit older and you're sort of past the point where you could, as much as you would dream to physically play for your team, like I'm 29 now, but my body's about 40. So there's no way I could play for Arsenal. But there's a sense of real pride in seeing a youngster, you know, as especially at the end, you know, academy graduate coming through the ranks. And I think Lewis Gaddy has been the biggest surprise of Arsenal season, I think.
00:06:38
Josh Vince - Arsenal
I think one year he was always, we knew that he was going to be quite good. He's done fairly well, but Lewis Skelly, especially being a midfielder, the way that he's adapted into that left back role and has completely outperformed Zinchenko in the sense of being a left back who can invert.
00:06:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hmm.
00:06:54
Josh Vince - Arsenal
And the fact, we Arsenal for the last couple of months, we've we've had a debate a lot on the Arsenal podcast about the number eight position. whether Declan Rice should be playing number eight, whether he should be playing deeper and Marino should be playing eight, if Marino's good enough. What I think we're starting to understand now about Miles Lewis Skelly is for an 18 year old he has so much awareness and confidence and ability on the ball that he's able to invert and really push forward giving Rice a little bit of freedom to either sit back
00:07:25
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Or if Skelly inverts into a more defensive role, giving Rice the opportunity to go and have a little bit of a run and go have a little bit of go, which he was doing against City
Rivalry and Team Motivation
00:07:33
Josh Vince - Arsenal
a lot. He was making a lot of runs down the left channel, which just weren't being picked out by the Arsenal team. And so having a player with that much confidence, and I think There's a beauty to having a youngster playing for you as well. They're not held back by the system having been beaten into them. They go out there to show themselves and to perform to the highest level of their ability. And I think with him in particular, there's an arrogance there, which, you know, alluding to what he did for Erling Harlan's celebration. And he did that for one simple reason. Erling Harlan now knows who he is.
00:08:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's City fans, obviously, seething at it. But it it definitely caused a spectacle, that's for sure. just want to defend the City perspective on this one, though.
00:08:20
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yes, go for it.
00:08:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I also want to let everyone listening behind the curtain a little bit. So we all record on the same platform. And when I went to record an episode two days ago, I think Josh and the Arsenal team were the last guys there.
00:08:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
and I noticed on our soundboard there was a clip of the stay humble bit so I haven't listened to your episode yet but give me a 10 second summary of how you use that please
00:08:49
Josh Vince - Arsenal
very simply the uh for those of you who've listened to any of the shows on the global sports podcast network you'll know that there is there's an intro clip it's a little uh jingle effectively which introduces every episode and at the end of it i just managed to find a little bit of audio of earling harland uh in the two wall result, you know, not a win, a draw in the two all result saying to Michael Arteta, a man who, by the way, was the assistant manager at City, admittedly before his time, but has ties to the club, looking at him going, stay humble, stay humble. Yeah. And that was just the introduction to the episode to which I then said, yep, stay humble, Erling. Welcome to the Daily Arsenal podcast.
00:09:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
oh Well, you've whoever's listening now, you've immediately made yourself a figurehead of hatred, which is exactly what I wanted, and now I'm going and now i'm going to now i'm going to defend the city perspective.
00:09:41
Josh Vince - Arsenal
That's absolutely fine.
00:09:45
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Bring it on.
00:09:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
So obviously, when you when when you look at the clip like that,
00:09:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
The stay humble tagline is is is catchy and it's easy to to use that against someone, isn't it?
00:09:56
Josh Vince - Arsenal
really Oh, yeah.
00:10:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
Especially especially with the random city you went on afterwards. It lends itself to comedy.
00:10:05
Josh Vince - Arsenal
yeah Yes.
00:10:06
Global Sports Podcast Network
The bigger you are, the harder you fall. The biggest and best teams and the biggest and best players are going to get the most ridiculed because most of the most people amount to that care about them.
00:10:12
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Of course, that will. Yeah.
00:10:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
But I think what he means by saying that is you guys haven't actually won anything with this set of players. You won one FA Cup and Rotata, yeah, but it's a pretty much a new squad since, isn't it?
00:10:27
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Mm hmm.
00:10:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
So as you say, and an 18-year-old that has got 13 senior matches in football you know laying it on one of the je one of this generation's greatest players.
00:10:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
Even if Harland retired today, he would be one of the best players of this generation.
00:10:42
Josh Vince - Arsenal
isn
00:10:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
Facts. I don't think anyone other than the aliens of Massey and Ronaldo can really hold a candle to his goal of scoring.
00:10:45
Josh Vince - Arsenal
yeah
00:10:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
Maybe Lewandowski, but that's up for debate. I think Harland will surpass him as time goes. Anyway, I understand why Arsenal did it, of course, because there is so much needle and in this rivalry.
Narratives and Emotional Engagement in Football
00:11:03
Global Sports Podcast Network
and Gabrielle got asked about it before the game. Artata said there would be no emotion going into it and Gabrielle said there absolutely will be.
00:11:07
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah.
00:11:11
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Of course there will be, yes.
00:11:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
And of course there will be, but of course Oterter has got to say that too. But i yeah, I can totally see why everyone is dunking on Holland and City because, you know, when when you've won so much in recent history, people are going to want to. But I think that was kind of the point that he felt that Arsenal were getting embroiled in lot of extracurriculars, let's say, without anything to back it up.
00:11:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
And this kind of feels like another moment of that. But I will say that these type of moments are what lead to the winning in the future, aren't they? So and if you end up winning, everyone will look back.
00:11:48
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah.
00:11:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
This will be a seminal moment either way, probably, won't it? And that's the beauty of two of the country's greatest teams going against each other is it provides us moments like this that we will talk to death.
00:11:54
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah.
00:12:03
Global Sports Podcast Network
for no one's amusement bar our own, but that's very much how it is.
00:12:04
Josh Vince - Arsenal
if
00:12:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
and Would you like a little rebuttal for MLS there?
00:12:12
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Do you know what? I can't wholly disagree with you. It's true. We've not won anything since the FA Cup when Arteta first came in. And that was five odd years ago. So, you know, it's been a long time coming. Arsenal haven't won anything with this group of players. And City, no one can take it away from them, have done phenomenally in the last decade. What is it? Is it seven in the last 10 years?
00:12:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yes, I would know.
00:12:34
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah, seven in the last 10 years. Like that's an almost unprecedented record. It's phenomenal. I think where a lot of it comes from is obviously being pegs back to second twice, very close, hurt the squad quite a lot and gave them a real motivation to go on a win it. City have been painted as the big rivals for the title in the last few years and sort of it's built a bit of I wouldn't necessarily even say animosity.
00:13:01
Josh Vince - Arsenal
It's not like us in Spurs.
00:13:03
Josh Vince - Arsenal
We genuinely hate Spurs.
00:13:03
Global Sports Podcast Network
I would.
00:13:04
Global Sports Podcast Network
I i think either from your, I mean, come on, Sunday sunday proves that.
00:13:04
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Oh, you would.
00:13:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
And and the like and the like the the last two seasons of league matches have all been absolute scraps of the night.
00:13:10
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Okay, yeah.
00:13:16
Josh Vince - Arsenal
They have been, yeah. But I think it's scraps, I think it's competitive scraps. There is definitely between the players at least, some disdain. And I think, like you say, when you're when you're the best and you're the biggest, you do open yourself up a little bit for ridicule if things aren't going great. And Harland is the figurehead of that. Realistically, he's the figurehead of the team, I think. You could very, very easily argue.
00:13:39
Josh Vince - Arsenal
So when when he makes a comment like that to a manager who is you know who's trying he trying very hard to push himself up there, I get where the comment probably came from, and then looks at an 18-year-old, who even are you? Who even are you? Again, I do kind of understand the sentiment. I think it's very arrogant.
00:13:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:13:58
Josh Vince - Arsenal
but I understand the sentiment he probably has earned the right to be arrogant. But in the same vein, I think there is every right to respond to that
City's Recent Struggles and Future Plans
00:14:07
Josh Vince - Arsenal
if a result goes the other way. So I think both instances are justified because let's be honest when Harland did that the first time round and when he threw the ball at the back of Gabrielle's head and when he said that to MLS you know the first time around it it was all laughing at Arsenal because they've thrown up their bottling again the throwing the league away again he's Harling's right in this instance you know Arsenal beat Manchester City 5-1 no once we didn't see that coming we spoke before the game we did not see that coming at all
00:14:36
Josh Vince - Arsenal
And it's a moment of it's a moment of the players being able to rebut each other. And like you say, you know it's realistically between the players, it is genuine. But for the rest of us, it it creates it creates a real sort of excitement about the league and a real energy about the league and those water cooler moments, which we all love really deep down inside.
00:14:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
Absolutely. And it creates a siege mentality, doesn't it, which every manager tries to impose on their team because does spur it does spur sides on to create more than the sum of their parts.
00:14:59
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Mm-hmm.
00:15:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
Not that your parts don't adapt too much anyway, but, you know, the last couple of years you've needed a bit of extra and maybe something like this.
00:15:10
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Mm.
00:15:14
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah.
00:15:16
Global Sports Podcast Network
and that This very much could be a sliding doors moment, couldn't it? 5-1 win over the champions who you couldn't best for the previous two years. Obviously, you're chasing a new challenger now.
00:15:23
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah.
00:15:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
But you know I think if Arsenal do end up getting there at the end of the season, we'll look back at Sunday's game as one of the key moments.
00:15:35
Josh Vince - Arsenal
100%, yeah. without Without a shadow of doubt, it will probably a If it goes on to happen, and I'll be honest with you, Jules, I never thought we would win it. I actually predicted City to win the league at the start of the season. I'd still, I can't see Liverpool dropping six points, unless of course Everton do us a massive favour in the last ever, you know, Merseyside, Derby and Goodison Park. But if we do go on to win it, then this game, and probably the game at Anfield, will be the two big games.
00:16:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
Definitely. And long live and big club rivalries in in and in the Premier League.
00:16:09
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Hell yeah. This is the thing. It's it's been so sanitized recently, hasn't it? when you When you look back at the last, let's say, five or six years, the big rivalry really was city Liverpool.
00:16:19
Josh Vince - Arsenal
And then all of the other Darby's and rivalries were just a bit san sanitized and a bit and a bit dull. It's fun to have a bit of Aggie, you know.
00:16:28
Global Sports Podcast Network
Definitely. There's so little of it. They've tried to make Brighton v Palace, one of the marquee games of the season, haven't they?
00:16:36
Josh Vince - Arsenal
They've tried.
00:16:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, they've tried.
00:16:38
Josh Vince - Arsenal
so
00:16:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
I don't even think that, well, I don't think the Brighton fans care that much. I think Palace like beating Brighton, but I don't think Brighton care too much, to be honest.
00:16:43
Josh Vince - Arsenal
No. At this point, Palace like beating anybody, let's be honest.
Outlook for Arsenal and City
00:16:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
We're going to take a short break and then when we come back, we'll look at where this leaves both sides for the rest of the season.
00:17:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hello and welcome back to the Daily Manchester City podcast on the Global Sports Podcast Network. We're joined by Josh Vince from the Daily Arsenal podcast and unfortunately we're dissecting everything that happened on Sunday.
00:17:42
Josh Vince - Arsenal
this Yeah.
00:17:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
that We're just going to look ahead now to where that leaves both sides for the rest of the season. Arsenal of course are still in the league cap which they'll be playing a later today as we record.
00:17:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
and Just quickly, how hopeful or not are you of turning that one around?
00:18:04
Josh Vince - Arsenal
do you know it's a really good question i think uh in terms of momentum it's definitely with us and not with new castle they probably have more to play for on this though they haven't won a trophy in 80 years and it's at st james's park with two nil down already and we played a very very demanding game against realistic let's not let's not be silly jewels it's been a rough ride but realistically still arguably one of the best teams in the world so
00:18:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
shouldt Shouldn't be getting beaten 5-1, that's for sure.
00:18:32
Josh Vince - Arsenal
shouldn't in fact the last time you conceded five goals an open play was 2008 against Middlesbrough so you know it's it's been some time so i think honestly 2-0 at St James's Park is a massive thing to overturn if we can do it in an hour and a half time then wow it will be ah it'll probably be along with the city result our result of the season that but i'm not hugely confident if i'm being totally honest with you
00:18:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I think it would be good for you to win another trophy, wouldn't it? Because it would it would signify growth and development for this squad. And a lot of the times, teams that enter you know this new era of where they're at. So you've you know you've been there or thereabouts, but solidifying themselves. If you think of Venga, Mourinho, these guys that took their teams on, they started by winning caps first.
00:19:23
Josh Vince - Arsenal
They did, yeah.
00:19:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
Merino especially, he loved the league cap because he thought he'd set the team up well for the back stretch of the season getting in ah getting in that championship winning mode.
00:19:26
Josh Vince - Arsenal
just
00:19:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
and I think Newcastle have had their eye on this one for the last few results to be honest because they've since since they beat you they've gone a bit wayside.
Arsenal's League and Cup Ambitions
00:19:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
But what would constitute a good season for you at this point is where I'm going with this.
00:19:47
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Okay.
00:19:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah do you Do you think Arsenal will win the title?
00:19:53
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Hmm.
00:19:53
Global Sports Podcast Network
off the back of such a good result that could you know catapult you further, or have you left yourself with a little bit too much left to do?
00:20:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
Six points off Liverpool, they've got a game in hand as well, 14 games left, there's still plenty of time, but they do look bloody good, don't they?
00:20:08
Josh Vince - Arsenal
they look They look fantastic and they look like they're on a march too. I think to answer to answer your question, I kind of have to relate back to something we actually spoke about a little while ago, because in the Arsenal Podcast, we've talked quite a lot about what would constitute a successful season for us. I think ultimately, we've drawn too many games.
00:20:31
Josh Vince - Arsenal
effectively, we've we've been a little bit too naive, maybe a little bit too, we played a bit too safe. That's definitely a criticism that's been made of Arsenal this season that they're a bit risk averse. And I think it holds it holds merit generally over the whole course of the season. When I think about where we are as well, you said earlier, managers often, you know, kickstart new regimes with a cup win.
00:20:56
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Arteta won the cup in this first year and as you said, completely different squad now.
00:20:59
Josh Vince - Arsenal
So this squad, hugely,
00:21:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
That felt like of an overperformance at the time, didn't it? if Whereas if you won the FA Cup now, it would be, well, you know, one of the top teams have won the FA Cup.
00:21:09
Josh Vince - Arsenal
hugely, and this is part of my point. I still think we're ahead of schedule. Realistically, two years ago, when we were second, that should not have happened. That was a year where we should, well, I mean, it was amazing, but realistically, we were looking at fifth fourth. Like, get back into Europe. We'd been sixth and eighth. And then it was like, right, we need to get back into Europe. Let's aim for fifth to fourth. you know Even if it's a Europa League run, we'll take that because it's showing progression. We ended up second.
00:21:40
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Then the year after, again, Saliba was fully fit, we missed out on the league by two bloody points and you know it would have been amazing because it would be the 20th anniversary of the Invincibles. So I still think we're ahead of schedule really. I think this is the year that a cup would suit us best.
00:21:58
Josh Vince - Arsenal
I don't see us winning the league because that we've left it so long and all the draws and everything everything to do with that has been difficult to, it's difficult to justify winning the league with that.
City's Aging Squad and Strategic Needs
00:22:10
Josh Vince - Arsenal
I'm going to say something now which is going to sound absurd but I genuinely think it's a possibility. I fancy us for the Champions League.
00:22:19
Josh Vince - Arsenal
i
00:22:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
i don't I don't think that's that crazy.
00:22:21
Global Sports Podcast Network
I think the type of football that you play lends itself to those tricky European games, doesn't it? You know you don't concede many chances, you don't concede many goals. And I think with Saka out for, you know he'll be back by the end of the season, sure, but will he be at full pace?
00:22:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
So naturally with your book your most creative player on the sidelines, well, you so I say that, you still scored five on Sunday, didn't you?
00:22:45
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah, which is and that's rare for us like it's I honestly the way that we're playing in Europe at the moment We can see the three goals in the league in in the sort of league section, which is remarkable We weren't scoring as free but during that time, you know, we had to guard out for a brief period We have rice out for a little while as well. We had a lot of key players out Now we've got Sakhar out. He should be back at the end of February. I expect it will take him a month to get up to pace. But thankfully, Ethan Wannieri is playing brilliantly on that right hand side. But what but what about you, Jules? Because obviously this is the City podcast. But where do you... Obviously it's been a rough year for City. It's but it's been a really tough year. What would you now constitute a successful season for Manchester City at this point in time after this result?
00:23:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah ah It's difficult because you always want to have the loftiest ambitions when you're following the loftiest club. right like any anyone any Anyone at the start of the season would would think it was blasphemy if I said getting a Champions League place was a good season.
00:23:40
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah.
00:23:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
But the fear of God has been put into City by just the amount of losses and the lack of control. Everything that made City so good feels like it's crumbling. And there's obviously it's still a fantastic team with the best number nine in the world and world-class players everywhere and the best coach.
00:24:03
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah.
00:24:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
Finally, we've seen Pep have ah ah of of of an off-streak. We've never seen it before. It's crazy.
00:24:12
Josh Vince - Arsenal
ah just say it's been mad
00:24:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
that's why That's why football is so brilliant, isn't it? So yeah, I guess so the long winded way is me justifying saying fourth place would be a good season, and but it would only be good because it would stop the free fall.
00:24:28
Global Sports Podcast Network
And, and then with the summer would obviously be incredibly important.
00:24:28
Josh Vince - Arsenal
yeah
00:24:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
new director of football coming in as well. So you'd imagine he'd want to put his imprint on the club and Hugo Vienna from sporting,
00:24:40
Josh Vince - Arsenal
oh oh that's a good that's a good appointment
00:24:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, but it means the cheeky Beggarstein who's been at the helms for ages and brought Pep in is leaving. He's been he not done the best in the last couple of years, but he has been one of the main factors in city's domination over the last decade and was pivotal to acquiring Pep in the first place. And who knows what happens if you don't get if you don't get that man. But it just feels like and a totally new era and ah and ah new and unknown is scary, Josh. You know what I mean?
00:25:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
So a long-winded way of saying, I think fourth, I feel sick saying it, you know, because it could have been a fifth fifth Premier League title in a row, which is what we all expected at the start of the season. think everyone predicted it too, including yourself, as you said earlier. So yeah, football is cyclical. It always will be. We just got too accustomed to the way City were dominating, but it had never been done before, might not get,
00:25:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
might not get done again. and So yeah, I think.
00:25:44
Josh Vince - Arsenal
The thing is, Jules, you did four on the trot, and that is the first time that's ever happened. Fifth on the trot would have been, frankly, absurd. I think we all guessed it because it was like kind of like you say, it's the norm. It's what we expect. It's what we're anticipating should happen. But realistically, like if you did five in a row, it would be non-human.
00:26:08
Josh Vince - Arsenal
It wouldn't be right. So I totally understand like the disappointment of not hitting the five and the fall off and everything like that. But I still think as if you were a City fan, ah ah goodness me, hold your head up high for that team because they've done insane things.
00:26:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:26:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
Definitely four in a row. um um As we can look back on with hindsight, which is perfect, of course, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Everyone got pushed and beyond what they they're physically capable of generally in the treble season the year before.
00:26:36
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Hmm.
00:26:39
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah.
00:26:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
because that obviously played every game possible at the highest intensity.
00:26:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
you know And we've seen a lot of the fallout from that season now, I think, especially with international tournaments in both that season and after the end, the last one.
00:26:53
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah.
00:26:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
So the players have had no opportunity to to rest whatsoever. The players have also aged as well in those two years. you know They've tip tipped from that experience pro into the aging pro type of thing you know and and it all happened at the same time that a lot of that comes down to squad planning because you're obviously aware that the bulk of your team are 29 to 31 um um and that some of them are injury prone and pep still pep and tiki chose to have a smaller squad because that's what pep prefers so he has to take some accountability for this
00:27:09
Josh Vince - Arsenal
yeah
City's Signings and Tactical Decisions
00:27:31
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
and i think we're seeing we're seeing that rectified somewhat in the transfer market
00:27:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
City have made five sign-ins, three for the first team um and then two that you'd hope would go on to be world beaters. one
00:27:43
Josh Vince - Arsenal
It was about 180 million, wasn't it? It was a huge amount of money.
00:27:47
Global Sports Podcast Network
Perp had signed, the six or seven players in January in his entire tenure before this season, and and now he's signed five in this January.
00:27:54
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Wow.
00:27:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
City are normally so proactive, right?
00:27:57
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Bloody hell.
00:28:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
This is obviously a reactive position the club find themselves in now, but Marmouche looks like a baller, so who cares?
00:28:04
Josh Vince - Arsenal
100%.
00:28:09
Josh Vince - Arsenal
ah Very quickly on Marmoosh, I do have to ask you because i I found this baffling in the game itself.
00:28:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
I know what you're going to say, and I agree. yeah
00:28:17
Josh Vince - Arsenal
What the hell was he doing in the middle? Like him in the middle and Foden on the wing. he s swo He got them the wrong way round. It's surely simple for a pet.
00:28:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
classic pep over overthink that was wasn't it yeah we've just seen my moose tear chelsea apart making those direct uh runs from left from out in on the left hand side completely tore chelsea apart and then foden has even done an interview over the last week saying about how england should have used him centrally and then pep puts him out wide
00:28:29
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah.
00:28:48
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah. it's He did, yeah.
00:28:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, it was a bit baffling.
00:28:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
And Momoosh looked like he was a bit lost, to be honest. But it could happen, man. like you know i I don't think anyone expected him to be so good at the and in the in on his debut.
00:29:00
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah. Cause for...
00:29:04
Global Sports Podcast Network
He could have easily scored.
00:29:04
Josh Vince - Arsenal
yeah
00:29:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
He had one ruled out, was pivotal in another, and and then folded and had found his scoring boots playing centrally again. So yeah, it really it really baffled me. But not the most baffling decision ah even on the team sheet.
00:29:15
Josh Vince - Arsenal
cause
00:29:17
Global Sports Podcast Network
so
00:29:18
Josh Vince - Arsenal
That's very true, because Fodum's on the right, wasn't he? He was on the right hand side. So I kind of get it for the cutting in and he likes that, especially with Savino would be cutting in as well. But I do have to say sort of like if you even though Louis Skelly has been very, very good, he's an 18 year old still.
00:29:33
Josh Vince - Arsenal
And he's not the quickest. So my moosh was surely a debt. Yeah, honestly, when Arsenal fans saw that, and saw my moosh in the middle it was like, Oh, okay.
00:29:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
Did you expect did you expect momoosh to be straight up against MLS? Was that, was that what you think then?
00:29:47
Josh Vince - Arsenal
I expected him to be up against Partey at right back. Thank God Timba was fit. And I have to say, actually, you know, as much of, you know, a very troublesome individual as he is, Partey was brilliant in that game.
00:30:02
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. i and And that's why I'm not going to, I'm just not going to, I'm just not going to disagree with you.
00:30:03
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah, which hurts to say.
00:30:07
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah. That's absolutely fine. We'll leave it at that.
Arsenal's Defensive Strategy Against City
00:30:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
Well, before we do truly leave it, just want to bring up that, are you are you aware of what Arsenal's XG was before I say this?
00:30:21
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Do you know what? I'm not actually, I think we've all been enjoying it too much to look at the stats.
00:30:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
So to would you like would you like to guess? And when I said this on the pod that we recorded the other day, I mentioned it and um um i won I won't give the inkling because I'll kind of give it away.
00:30:36
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Okay.
00:30:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
But it was surprising for for the, p well,
00:30:38
Josh Vince - Arsenal
right
00:30:42
Josh Vince - Arsenal
I have a feeling that RXG was considerably lower than the actual score line because a there was a lot of deflections and and of Haverts his chance was really tight as well. But then again, Haverts probably had a 0.99 when he missed the target. So I'm going to say that, John, I'm going to say the city probably had an XG of about two. And I'm going to say Arsenal about, John, I'm going to say 2-3, 2-3.
00:31:10
Global Sports Podcast Network
The distance between your gasses is nearly bang on, but Arsenal's XG was 1 and City's was 0.82.
00:31:16
Josh Vince - Arsenal
What?
00:31:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
How crazy is that?
00:31:20
Josh Vince - Arsenal
One.
00:31:21
Global Sports Podcast Network
If you think, of obviously there was that Harvard's chance, right? But you think of the party one, that's got to be like a 0.01 surely.
00:31:29
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah.
00:31:30
Global Sports Podcast Network
MLS went through Ortega's hands from with a defender in front of him as well. So that would have been that.
00:31:35
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Definitely should have saved that, by the way.
00:31:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, yeah, I agree. it was It was good play by Rice initially and good movement by Emma Lesper.
00:31:37
Josh Vince - Arsenal
100% should have saved that.
00:31:42
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah.
00:31:42
Global Sports Podcast Network
I can't understand why he was stood off so much and allowed to pick his spot.
00:31:46
Global Sports Podcast Network
And even then, you could all see the spot was going to be to Ortega's left. And then Ortega even seen that as well.
00:31:50
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Hmm Speaking of standing off the part a goal.
00:31:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
But I don't know, man.
00:31:56
Josh Vince - Arsenal
No one closed him down at any point. No one closing one year II no one closed him down Also, so actually that's a good point for the XG one year is shot You know when you're a shot awkward difficult like that was that'd be a low XG.
00:32:06
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, exactly.
00:32:10
Global Sports Podcast Network
Great finish.
00:32:12
Josh Vince - Arsenal
So yeah, I see your point
00:32:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
I'm not using that. Well, i was initially, I was going to bring it up and say, is that lack? And on another day, do we see a different result? Which I'm going to answer by saying yes, but um I don't want it to take away from the fact that you know City were clearly worse than Arsenal, especially in that second half.
00:32:30
Global Sports Podcast Network
Only in that second half, to be honest.
00:32:30
Josh Vince - Arsenal
On, yeah, on this occasion for luck, I'm actually not so normally I agree with you because ah ah football is such a, such a volatile game. But on this occasion, I'm actually going to say no, simply because of Arsenal's press and the way they did it. They set so many traps. So Arsenal recently been pressing in a four, four, two, and it's been okay. You know, it's been fairly successful them in this game. They press in a five, three, two, incredibly narrow, but with five at the back and party screening the back line.
00:33:00
Josh Vince - Arsenal
that press from Havarts and Erdogan was so impressive and the way that they ah ah especially sort of you know attacking stones who's not fully fit and attacking Kanji who's having a bit of a kind crisis of confidence at the moment I think he planned it brilliantly like yeah sure a few of the shots definitely lucky but I think the way that Arsenal played the game I think deserved the victory probably not by that much but like the score line itself is a fluke, but still wonderful to watch from our perspective at the very least.
Reflection on Arsenal's Tactical Victory
00:33:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
and i I think the score line i think a reflection of the capitulation in the second half. so and you know All the damage was done in like a 25-minute spell, really.
00:33:38
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah.
00:33:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
but yeah that that's The mentality seems to have gone from City. right and These are all seasoned isn't winners.
00:33:50
Josh Vince - Arsenal
yeah
00:33:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
that That's the last thing you expect to go. but to concede that goal, the party goal immediately after getting back into the game and deservedly so as well, in my opinion, it well it felt like City had more chances in the first half as well, to be honest, and the Holland goal felt like a fair reflection of of the second half up until that point.
00:34:06
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah.
00:34:11
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Brilliant goal, by the way. The the the scooped cross from Savino. Everyone's talking about Harlan's leap. Great. The cross from Savino was incredible.
00:34:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
So yeah, it was classic.
00:34:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
Savino doesn't even look anymore. This is a 20-year-old.
00:34:22
Josh Vince - Arsenal
not
00:34:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
He knows exactly where the space is and where Holland's going to be. And I think the early signs of what I'm seeing between them two this year, I think Savino could have 100 assists for City, you know, if he doesn't leave in the next few years.
00:34:35
Josh Vince - Arsenal
he He's a terrifying player. He's probably the player who scares me the most at Sissy at the moment is Savino.
00:34:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, he can go either way and his his intelligence to find space at such a young age is great as well. And then you add in the pace and his finishing needs work definitely.
00:34:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
But he's got an eye for a pass and he's not one of these like no end product wingers. he he He's got vision and he has got execution from out wide.
00:35:03
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah.
00:35:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
Like the weight of the pass and the style of the pass is always accommodating for the player ahead of him. And that's a sign of a quality passer in my opinion.
00:35:14
Josh Vince - Arsenal
And also what we said as well earlier on, he's young and he's not afraid to make those mistakes, which often pep knocks out players quick, but he's still, yeah, exactly.
00:35:21
Global Sports Podcast Network
And a struggling team.
00:35:23
Josh Vince - Arsenal
As a team that's low on confidence, but he's exactly the sort of player you need right now. When your team is low on confidence, you need a youngster who's just going to go, I'll sort this out and just do things like that.
00:35:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:35:35
Josh Vince - Arsenal
So he's a real asset for City at the moment, Sevilla. I think he's probably your best signing in the years. so
00:35:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, I'd agree. I go back to the lack of squad planning for that as well, because Sid City didn't seem to miss in the transfer market, but have done all the lack of the lack of signings have been the big miss really.
00:35:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
But we're gonna we're going to wrap it up there. I'm just going to quickly ask Josh first. i just want I just want to know your predictions for ah for ah both City and Arsenal at the end of the season.
00:36:00
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Oh.
00:36:09
Global Sports Podcast Network
What positions are they both going to be? What silverware, if any, will either side have? And as a little treat, if you think any either player or any player from either team is going to be player of the year, throw that on top as well.
00:36:23
Josh Vince - Arsenal
I don't think we can look past Sadler's play of the year, unfortunately. I think he's got that nailed down. I think it's going to be Arsenal second still. as and Arsenal fans don't kill me, but Arsenal second. Manchester City third.
00:36:35
Josh Vince - Arsenal
I think you can pull it back to third. i can so You're in the FA Cup still, aren't you?
00:36:36
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:36:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:41
Josh Vince - Arsenal
I think yeah think you could win that, and I think... Do you know what? To hell with it. Arsenal winning the Champions League. First European trophy. What about you, Jules? Where do you think things are going to go?
00:36:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
oh i I've tried to remain so optimistic all season. I really have. And i I said on the wrap-up show with all the English teams that we both were on, that and no one will want City in the playoff round.
00:37:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
Maybe everyone except Real Madrid.
00:37:09
Josh Vince - Arsenal
have a train
00:37:11
Global Sports Podcast Network
And that's who you get. And that that's a consequence of being rubbish in the Champions League, you know? They had, after the first three games, a 0-0 draw against Inter Milan, which set you with a dominant dominant team.
00:37:17
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Mm-hmm.
00:37:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
And then 1-4-0 and 1-5-0 win. No goals conceded, first three games, second place in the table.
00:37:28
Josh Vince - Arsenal
That's...
Season Predictions and Farewell
00:37:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
From that position, to end up in the last playoff spot is absolutely catastrophic. but it But it was a good comeback win.
00:37:38
Josh Vince - Arsenal
It was awful, wasn't it?
00:37:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
You know you can only play your up against Club Bruges beating Villa this year as well. So I think it was a good performance in the end, actually, to to scrape over the line.
00:37:47
Josh Vince - Arsenal
yeah
00:37:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
But the result of that is, here you go. Here's bloody Real Madrid.
00:37:53
Josh Vince - Arsenal
and which way yeah is it that many wow wow okay well i mean realistically probably beating arsenal would have helped a little bit with that much yeah
00:37:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
There's four years in a row. City and Real Madrid have played each other now. Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:10
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Real are not at their absolute best, but that that you know they're still Real Madrid, aren't they?
00:38:17
Josh Vince - Arsenal
And then what?
00:38:21
Josh Vince - Arsenal
they are finding They are finding their feet a bit, though. They started off rocky, but Mbappe's finding his feet. He's working well with Vinny Duda's doing a really good job in defence at midfield. like they get yeah You know Val Verde's been OK as well.
00:38:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
Oh, you mentioned all these players.
00:38:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:38:39
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Modric still comes on every now. and It's going to be tough, I'll be honest. it's gotta to be I'll definitely be watching the games.
00:38:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's a shame, it's a shame that like in this round, where previous years you'd have seen someone drop into the Europa league and then city would just clean that one up and get into the champions league either way then.
00:38:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
Right. But that doesn't, that doesn't happen anymore. So he could be watching a tough game against Madrid city can still do it. Do not get me wrong. Like, you know, all it takes is a solid performance and Harlem to put away his chances and you can be anyone, you know, of course.
00:39:07
Josh Vince - Arsenal
I've got city you have the firepower to you have the firepower to win the Champions League. it's just whether that Like you said earlier, it's whether the mentality is still there or not. And if that slips, then it's going to be tricky.
00:39:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, so I got into my head. i Yeah, I think Real Madrid will get over the line, but I don't think i don't think it's going to be a ah hammer-in. At least I say that, hopefully, trying to forget about Sunday.
00:39:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
And yeah, in the Premier League, guy i think I think I agree with you. Third seems third seems about right, but i'm not I'm not super confident about it. Said he will be will get Champions League place because fifth fifth should be enough, which is a good year for that to be the case.
00:39:41
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yes, yeah.
00:39:46
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Yeah, definitely. like
00:39:47
Global Sports Podcast Network
I think for City.
00:39:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
But yeah, third finishing above Chelsea would ah ah from this position would probably be a good season, I think. Yeah. So, and yeah, that that will do our pretty long-winded wrap up of Sunday's match.
00:40:03
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's been a pleasure having Josh here. Thank you, Josh.
00:40:06
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Thank you for having me. I've really, really enjoyed it.
00:40:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, maybe yeah when maybe we'll do some more often. now We've become I created a good rapport over the last over the last week or so. maybe Maybe I'm a good luck charm for you and Arsenal, which can't go on for too long.
00:40:18
Josh Vince - Arsenal
We have done. Yes.
00:40:23
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Jules, you're welcome on the Arsenal podcast any time, any time.
00:40:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
So this is the last time I'm ever going to speak to you, Josh.
00:40:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, i turned I turned that down the other day and I might stick to that as well, to be honest.
00:40:33
Josh Vince - Arsenal
Do you know what? Do you know what? Actually, I'm going to get a little sound bite of you saying I'm your good luck charm and I'm going to add it to our jingle at the start. So you're in every podcast from now on and you can see us through to the Premier League and the Champions League titles.
00:40:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
OK, thanks for listening.
00:40:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, stay tuned for everything that we got coming up soon. We'll obviously have coverage of that massive Real Madrid fixture and City's pursuit of the Champions League places in the Premier League. I've been Jules Jordan-Probert for the Daily Manchester City podcast and the Daily Arsenal podcast on the Global Sports Podcast Network. Have a wonderful rest of your day.